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Allstar
08-27-2007, 10:52 PM
Okay guys, I know it's still a little premature for this question, but as of right now would you rather have VY and two second round picks, or Matt Schaub along with Mario? I know we'll never know who would come of those two picks, but with our apparant success with mostly anything beyond the first round in the last two years, I'd say we'd get at least one good player out of it. Do you guys remember who was left in the second round when Atlanta picked for us this year? Just assume we picked who you would have taken with that pick and vote.

The Pencil Neck
08-27-2007, 11:16 PM
please god let it go

TexanRevolution
08-27-2007, 11:17 PM
:brickwall: AAAAHHHHHGGGGG!

Damn...not again!

Um, what if the Oilers had never left?
What if Bum had never been fired?
What if the South had won the war?
What if your aunt had nads?

Bottom line; it doesn't matter...VY is not (and will probably never will be a Texan), so why even ask? Build a bridge; get over it.

Not trying to be harsh, but what the hell good does a post like this do? All indications are that we have a helluva QB, a nice pickup in JJ, and a chance to do something this franchise has never done (Win, baby!)

Nothing else really matters!

ObsiWan
08-27-2007, 11:34 PM
please god let it go

yes, please...
make it STOP!!
:hairpull:
what POSSIBLE purpose does this poll serve??
other than to keep...
:deadhorse

TexanSam
08-27-2007, 11:42 PM
I vote to have kept David Carr. And to retain Casserly as GM, Capers as head coach, and make Victor Riley our franchise left tackle.

gtexan02
08-27-2007, 11:58 PM
Whats the big deal? The funniest thing in the world to me is that people who don't like the thread are the only ones who have even posted. Guess how you let a thread go? You don't post in it. Then it fades away. By posting you bring it to attention

I have no problem with the poll. And you shouldn't either. Its a simple thing to read the thread and move on

BSofA04
08-28-2007, 12:05 AM
Schaub will make Houston forget/forgive them for not taking VY. Schaubby any day of the week because he can actually get the ball to our recievers.

The Pencil Neck
08-28-2007, 12:11 AM
Whats the big deal? The funniest thing in the world to me is that people who don't like the thread are the only ones who have even posted. Guess how you let a thread go? You don't post in it. Then it fades away. By posting you bring it to attention

I have no problem with the poll. And you shouldn't either. Its a simple thing to read the thread and move on

We're voicing our opinion on the thread. What's wrong with that?

I don't want to hear any more about how we should have taken this guy or we should have taken that guy or we shouldn't have picked this guy or we shouldn't have taken that guy or blah blah blah. And this thread is my opportunity for me to vote without voting that we stop dwelling on the past and start looking forward to the future. If me (or the people who felt like me) had just ignored this thread and moved on, then that would be tacit approval for something I don't agree with.

That you don't agree with my disagreement is fine. And I've got no problem with keeping the thread alive. And I didn't negative rep the guy for asking the question. But I've used this thread to voice my opinion on the ideas behind it and THAT'S a good enough reason for me for this thread to remain alive for just a tad longer. :pirate:

Texan Asylum
08-28-2007, 09:26 AM
I'd prefer to support the team we've got, not some fantasy that some might wish could have been.

:texflag:

Errant Hothy
08-28-2007, 09:40 AM
If you want to continue to talk about VY...go the the Titans boards, or atleast take it to the NFL Section.

Better yet, GET OVER IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ole Miss Texan
08-28-2007, 09:53 AM
Ok, this poll isn't going to change the past. I enjoy looking at "what if's" every now and again. I understand those that don't like this thread because it can be tiring to hear the whole RB and VY debate-> very tiring. But i'm going to have to side with gtexan on this one....this is just a hey what do you think kinda poll, its not the normal texans are dumb VY is god kinda thing....everyone has their opinion but I do find when I there is a thread that irritates me...it ends up getting pushed back to page2 and nobody ever sees it again.

Getting back to the question at hand since I will humor this... I would have to vote Matt Schaub and Mario Williams. I think Schaub is exactly what this team needs in a QB in every aspect. I also think Mario is going to slowly develop and be a huge impact player for this team. I'm not predicting he averages 10 sacks a year but I'm predicting he shuts down the run and puts pressure on the QB a lot. no need to debate #1 overall cuz i'd take him over VY which I was really questioning myself why VY was doing well.. I will admit that : )

Another more viable option i think, would be Matt Schaub and Reggie Bush. But having Andre, Jacoby, Walter, Owen Daniels, and Reggie Bush at Schaub's disposal would be crazy. I would still like the Ahman signing- thats big for us. Green and Bush would have been sweet.

At least this is what im thinking as of 8/28/08 at 9:52 am. thoughts subject to change at any time without notice ;)

Leahmic223
08-28-2007, 10:41 AM
I have been thinking about the 'What Ifs' and right now I really don't know.

I too am tired of talking about this but i'll throw my opinion on the matter.

The Positives with having VY is we would have had VY and Demeco, not to mention we would have probably drafted a RB 1st or second round in the 07 draft to help out VY. VY is a hometown guy, with a lot of love for Houston obviously and a passion for the game. The negatives... VY and tons of scrabling QBs still have to prove that they can win the big one. Also these QBs seem to have the career span of a RB...which is bad for QBs.

The positives of what we have now...well Matt Schaub is a more traditional QB. He gets the job done and also he is just like any other Rookie QB...except he's held the clipboard for a few years and played in a couple of NFL games. Its like how some people want Quinn to sit instead of throwing him out there to learn from his mistakes.
With Mario we have a guy whose potential says "HOF DE" now not saying he's going to be that, but that is what is expected of him and that's been his potential. I think great pass rushers are harder to come by than RBs...
All that talk about how there wasn't going to be another Reggie Bush...well Peterson came out and some were saying he was better than Bush. When McFadden comes out he will be all the rage.

So I have to say I rather support the team we have instead of some 'What if' team. Also so far, I am proud with how we are doing although it is only preseason...I am excited this year and I was thinking 8-8 or 9-7 before that Cowboys game. After that I am thinking 10-6...seriously. I seriously think 10-6 is a possibllity and if that happens, our fans can stop asking "What if we had him" and start asking "When will we win the superbowl."

Shaft75
08-28-2007, 10:45 AM
NO MORE PLEEEEEASE!

:deadhorse

eriadoc
08-28-2007, 10:47 AM
Since I never wanted VY or Reggie Bush, this is a flawed premise.

Double Barrel
08-28-2007, 10:48 AM
If my aunt had nuts she'd be my uncle! :D

I picked Schaub and Williams because iiwii.

The 'what if' game is fun to a point, but then we'd have Julius Peppers on our team and would be saying David Carr who?

Brando
08-28-2007, 10:55 AM
If my aunt had nuts she'd be my uncle! :D

I picked Schaub and Williams because iiwii.

The 'what if' game is fun to a point, but then we'd have Julius Peppers on our team and would be saying David Carr who?

lol DB with the nuts joke

Let's play the "what if" game. What if we convinced Michael Vick to stay in college one more year. We wouldn't have David Carr or Mike Vick. Schaub would be somewhere else. I like how things turned out.:cool:

hindsight is always 20/20

Texan Asylum
08-28-2007, 11:32 AM
If my aunt had nuts she'd be my uncle! :D

I picked Schaub and Williams because iiwii.

The 'what if' game is fun to a point, but then we'd have Julius Peppers on our team and would be saying David Carr who?

Nice! :cool:

By the way...what does "iiwii" mean? :confused:

The Pencil Neck
08-28-2007, 11:45 AM
Nice! :cool:

By the way...what does "iiwii" mean? :confused:


It Is What It Is.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
08-28-2007, 11:57 AM
Matt Schaub and Vince Young are a wash to me and I wouldn't trade Mario and his potential for 2 second round picks.

Advantage Texans

thunderkyss
08-28-2007, 12:02 PM
I wanted Vince Young.

In my mind, the stars aligned themselves so that we could take Vince with the first overall pick in the 2006 draft. I think he's going to be a much better QB than any Titan fan can imagine.

But oh well. He's not a Texan. We've beat Peyton Manning(albeit only once in 6 attempts) & we beat the Titans both times in '06(in my mind anyway).

I am not in the least bit upset that we didn't take Vince in the draft... it was the right decision to pass on him. We had already made a huge commitment to that position, earlier in the offseason.

Now that decision really lights a fire under my butt.

But it's been corrected.

We are now a football team with one goal, from top to bottom. Winning the SuperBowl. We aren't waiting for our QB to come around, or our defense to become dominate, or for our OL to learn how to protect our QB, or open holes for our RBs.

It's do or die. Either you get the job done, or you're out of herr.

And that's all I want. I don't care who is on the roster, as long as they deliver what they promise. Professional level quality football.

YellerLotYeller
08-28-2007, 12:09 PM
Your poll is crap.:ohsnap:

V3rm0nt3r
08-28-2007, 12:13 PM
I'm a superstitious guy so Schaub and Williams over a guy who will miss most of the season for the Madden cover.:)

Was it worth it VY????

ObsiWan
08-28-2007, 12:18 PM
Whats the big deal? The funniest thing in the world to me is that people who don't like the thread are the only ones who have even posted. Guess how you let a thread go? You don't post in it. Then it fades away. By posting you bring it to attention

I have no problem with the poll. And you shouldn't either. Its a simple thing to read the thread and move on


First, you have no business telling us that we shouldn't have any problem with the poll. No more than I should try and tell you that you should.


Second, America still thinks we have an obsession with having passed on VY. To wit...

http://images.ucomics.com/comics/tm/2007/tm070825.gif

I guess Tank's right, some of us still do.

Its just that some of us would like to move along into the future and not speculate on what might have been. There's no way to know what would have happened if we'd drafted VY. He could have broken his leg, a la Charles Spencer in training camp, and like Spencer, been still on the PUP list.

Double Barrel
08-28-2007, 12:23 PM
We've beat Peyton Manning(albeit only once in 6 attempts)...

Actually it was once in 10 attempts...but who's counting? :shades:

Specnatz
08-28-2007, 12:31 PM
I give up. I swear if I see one more poll like this or one more F'n ykw thread I might just ........





http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o195/Specnatz/death2.gif

V3rm0nt3r
08-28-2007, 12:38 PM
I give up. I swear if I see one more poll like this or one more F'n ykw thread I might just ........





http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o195/Specnatz/death2.gif

give it a rest.

the post is already up and there is nothing to do with it but entertain ourselves with it.

drop it alright.

infantrycak
08-28-2007, 12:42 PM
Great another thread where people can re-argue about whether or not they want to re-argue about the draft some more. Whoo-hoo.

powerfuldragon
08-28-2007, 12:45 PM
banned

real
08-28-2007, 12:54 PM
:king:

brakos82
08-28-2007, 12:58 PM
What if nobody invented the internet? We wouldn't be having this conversation then... :bat:

Goldensilence
08-28-2007, 01:05 PM
In the end the Pyramids will have nothing on how long this lasts.

Errant Hothy
08-28-2007, 01:08 PM
What if nobody invented the internet? We wouldn't be having this conversation then... :bat:

Well, thankfully Al Gore DID (invent the internet)!! :cowboy1:

HOU-TEX
08-28-2007, 01:22 PM
:worm:

Specnatz
08-28-2007, 03:49 PM
give it a rest.

the post is already up and there is nothing to do with it but entertain ourselves with it.

drop it alright.

I was being sarcastic. In fact I have not read many of the post.

brakos82
08-28-2007, 04:48 PM
:worm:

MOLE MUTANT! :pirate:

Texan_Bill
08-28-2007, 04:51 PM
Crap... I regret opening this thread..... :brickwall: :brickwall: :brickwall: :brickwall: :brickwall: :brickwall:

Grams
08-28-2007, 05:54 PM
I think it is time to quit with the what ifs and deal with the here and now.

VY is NOT a Texan, RB is NOT a Texan.

Mario and Matt ARE Texans.

We should show our support for them and leave all this what ifs to the Titan or Saints board or at least the NFL forum.

Allstar
08-28-2007, 06:45 PM
You know, when I started this thread I imagined overwhelming support for Matt and Mario. I agree wholeheartedly that we are better off without vince and I had absolutly no intention of setting off this chain of OMG :gun: . I just thought to myself, "looks like it turned out to be a blessing in disguise" when I watched Matt and Mario on Saturday, and I wanted to see how many others agreed. I'm sorry that I touched on a subject that we all had finally put to rest. This was not my intention and we can all just leave the thread and idea alone forever.

GO TEXANS
:fans:

GP
08-28-2007, 06:54 PM
Okay guys, I know it's still a little premature for this question, but as of right now would you rather have VY and two second round picks, or Matt Schaub along with Mario? I know we'll never know who would come of those two picks, but with our apparant success with mostly anything beyond the first round in the last two years, I'd say we'd get at least one good player out of it. Do you guys remember who was left in the second round when Atlanta picked for us this year? Just assume we picked who you would have taken with that pick and vote.

Here's my take:

Taking Vince Young probably alters the entire NFL. Thus, we would not have drafted Jacoby Jones because drafting Vince Young means that we probably take a higher-profile WR in this year's draft. Heck, we might have taken Ted Ginn Jr. instead of Amobi, choosing to draft d line in the second round.

See what I mean? Your attempt to play "what if?" gets real complicated because it's sort of like taking a time machine back to 1962 to stop JFK from getting shot. Then what happens to the rest of history? It's radically altered because an "alive JFK" alters what happens.

I know this might seem laughable to 99% of you, but I really do believe that we cannot know for sure what happens if VY or RB plays here. Maybe they would have stunk it up here? You just don't know.

So.....your "what if?" games are rendered useless.

Thanks you for wasting our time.

V3rm0nt3r
08-28-2007, 07:01 PM
You know, when I started this thread I imagined overwhelming support for Matt and Mario. I agree wholeheartedly that we are better off without vince and I had absolutly no intention of setting off this chain of OMG :gun: . I just thought to myself, "looks like it turned out to be a blessing in disguise" when I watched Matt and Mario on Saturday, and I wanted to see how many others agreed. I'm sorry that I touched on a subject that we all had finally put to rest. This was not my intention and we can all just leave the thread and idea alone forever.

GO TEXANS
:fans:

No big deal.

It is an old topic but I see what you were getting at.

go Houston.:texflag:

The Pencil Neck
08-28-2007, 07:04 PM
See what I mean? Your attempt to play "what if?" gets real complicated because it's sort of like taking a time machine back to 1962 to stop JFK from getting shot. Then what happens to the rest of history? It's radically altered because an "alive JFK" alters what happens.

There's a novel called Replay by Ken Grimwood. It's an OK sci-fi novel but it deals with just this issue. A 40-something guy unhappy guy goes back to when he was 18. His mind and memories go back and are in his 18 year old body. He then gets to re-live his life and when he gets 43 his mind goes back to his 20 year old body, over and over and over.

When he goes back, he does different things and everything changes. He makes bets and makes money on who's going to win certain sporting events but they start to diverge as time goes on. It's like a domino effect, you change one thing and that changes hundreds of things and each of those things change hundreds more.

We draft VY, he doesn't become ROY. If we draft VY, maybe we don't draft Demeco. Who knows? It's just kinda pointless. We are what we are and this is what it is.

TEXANRED
08-28-2007, 07:44 PM
:brickwall: AAAAHHHHHGGGGG!

Damn...not again!

Um, what if the Oilers had never left?
What if Bum had never been fired?
What if the South had won the war?
What if your aunt had nads?





1) Still not able to make it out of the first round of the playoffs
2) Still losing to Pittsburgh in the first round of the playoffs
3) Mexico would be a bigger country
4) She's not supposed to?

TexansLucky13
08-28-2007, 07:50 PM
http://cache.deadspin.com/sports/vinceyoung.gif

We could have had Uncle Rico.... oh well!

:chicken:

Double Barrel
08-28-2007, 07:53 PM
It's pre-season...the natives are getting restless...three full-priced practice games are enough....the season needs to start so we can put so many things to rest....and start new ones! :user:

Texans_Chick
08-28-2007, 08:59 PM
You know, I liked VY coming out but I have thought of various alternative history scenarios at times. How about this fiction:

Dan Reeves says 1. David Carr is a problem at the quarterback position and 2. Even if he has potential, his good will is shot with the fan base and the lockeroom and he won't be in a good environment to learn. He needs a fresh start.

Carr leaves in March. The Texans get nothing for him and everyone makes fun of the Texans for giving up on Carr and passing on Bush.

Texans sign Sage Rosenfels (maybe? or does he not want to be backup to a rookie. Or do the Texans figure they need a more experienced QB to groom the inevitable VY).

Vince Young knows he is going to be drafted first. With no legit QB in Houston, he knows he will be picked. Maybe he blows off the quarterback coach thing with Jerry Rhome.

VY has a horrible draft season, worse than the real one he had. National media criticizes the Texans for being boneheads and not going for Reggie Bush. Houstonians don't care.

The Texans want to sign VY early, but his inexperienced agent knows he has leverage with the team and doesn't want to be taken advantage of. He knows he can get maximum coin being a first pick QB and wants the best deal ever. McNair pays the highest price ever for the first pick in the draft to get him signed before the draft starts. The large sucking sound you hear is no money for other positions on the team.

Kubiak works with VY, but realizes to take advantage of his special talents, he has to retool the offense.

The starting QB looks really good (Sage?) but Houstonians are intrigued with what VY does off schedule. The fans boo the starter like crazy and Kubiak is pressured to put in VY.

VY plays but struggles with the poor running backs and injured line and play calling by a newly formed staff. Many of the new Texan fans (who are more fans of VY than fans of the Texans) blame Kubiak for not taking advantage of VY's talents. The coaching staff has problems making VY follow all the rules because VY knows he is so popular in Houston, he can get away with anything. Maybe all his friends in Houston make it harder for him to focus just on football.

In year 3, Kubiak gets fired, and they look for another coach who will let Vince be Vince some more. Between finding the right scheme and trying not to get injured, the Texans end up with an exciting brand of football that ultimately disappoints. That the Texans are not a team, but rather the Vince Show, completely dependant on one player's health and good decisions off the field to do anything. VY never ends up living up to his potential, and he is either considered just a college wonder and bust or that the Texans ruined him.


Or another alternative history is that VY brings a lot of new fans to the Texans, emotions are outta sight, he's a magnificent leader but also a team player, and then the Texans ride that wave of emotions to the playoffs for a decade and ultimately the Superbowl. And the Longhorn and the Aggie live in harmony and peace.


I don't know. What I do know is this. I was talking to someone who used to be an Oiler fan but doesn't really follow the Texans. And he said he would be the biggest Texans fan ever if they had picked up Young. I think there would have been a lot of folks that way. Personally, those sorts of player first fans give me the willies.

TC
owned 3 Draft Vince shirts
thinks the poll is sorta silly

Wolf
08-28-2007, 09:10 PM
In year 3, Kubiak gets fired, and they look for another coach who will let Vince be Vince some more. Between finding the right scheme and trying not to get injured, the Texans end up with an exciting brand of football that ultimately disappoints. That the Texans are not a team, but rather the Vince Show, completely dependant on one player's health and good decisions off the field to do anything. VY never ends up living up to his potential, and he is either considered just a college wonder and bust or that the Texans ruined him.




Arnold Horshack OH!OH! OH! *raises hand*

Mack Brown !!!!!

Joe Texan
08-28-2007, 09:19 PM
Vince Young is the enemy

Grams
08-28-2007, 09:22 PM
Kubiak works with VY, but realizes to take advantage of his special talents, he has to retool the offense.

The starting QB looks really good (Sage?) but Houstonians are intrigued with what VY does off schedule. The fans boo the starter like crazy and Kubiak is pressured to put in VY.

VY plays but struggles with the poor running backs and injured line and play calling by a newly formed staff. Many of the new Texan fans (who are more fans of VY than fans of the Texans) blame Kubiak for not taking advantage of VY's talents. The coaching staff has problems making VY follow all the rules because VY knows he is so popular in Houston, he can get away with anything. Maybe all his friends in Houston make it harder for him to focus just on football.

In year 3, Kubiak gets fired, and they look for another coach who will let Vince be Vince some more. Between finding the right scheme and trying not to get injured, the Texans end up with an exciting brand of football that ultimately disappoints. That the Texans are not a team, but rather the Vince Show, completely dependant on one player's health and good decisions off the field to do anything. VY never ends up living up to his potential, and he is either considered just a college wonder and bust or that the Texans ruined him.

Sounds like The Falcons.

BSofA04
08-28-2007, 09:30 PM
Sounds like The Falcons.

Yeah, really. Had Vick not be involved with the dog fighting, that could be a logical scenerio.

So then the question becomes
1) Is it more important to have a player who'll put the fans in the seats and the jersey sales in the owners pocket or
2) To build a team with the right people for your offense so they could ultimatly have more success in the future.

The answer is.....depends on the owner. Thank god we have McNair.

Grams
08-28-2007, 10:19 PM
I would rather have 2.

Lets continue to build the team the right way and enjoy lots of winning seasons.

barrett
08-29-2007, 02:53 AM
I couldn't agree more. I was living in Oregon when the Texans came to be. Not the football team mind you, but the club, the organization. I did as much research as I could on the organization to find out what kind of team it would be. I was never an Oilers fan. I grew up in Austin and my dad was a Tom Landry / Cowboys fan. I didn't like them because as I got older they all seemed like rappers or something. I wandered off and found a liking for the Bengals because I thought they looked wierd. After years and years of swing season after swing season I started to analyze the organization and found that It was not an organization that was dedicated to winning the right way. It was all flash and trickery and no substance.

I learned from watching Tom Landry that character is key. I never liked the Bud Adams because he seemed to run his organization with negativity and a willingness to be mediocre. Bob McNair seemed to me to be his doplleganger.

I had been living in Oregon getting up at 9 in the morning to watch football and rooting for good games and good plays. When the news came that Houston's new team was going to be called the "Texans". I was done. I had heard all McNair had to say about building a team the right way, slowly with a solid foundation etc. etc. and Naming them "Texans" and not dressing them like clowns was a big bonus. We couldn't be luckier to have a team that is building the way it is. Go listen to that speech that Kubiak gives at the Luncheon and tell me that's not a message that you can get behind.

Texans Chick's scenario is very similar to the organization in Atlanta. Our scenario is building to be more like the organization in New England.


go texans.

Texanmike02
08-29-2007, 03:35 AM
There's a novel called Replay by Ken Grimwood. It's an OK sci-fi novel but it deals with just this issue. A 40-something guy unhappy guy goes back to when he was 18. His mind and memories go back and are in his 18 year old body. He then gets to re-live his life and when he gets 43 his mind goes back to his 20 year old body, over and over and over.

When he goes back, he does different things and everything changes. He makes bets and makes money on who's going to win certain sporting events but they start to diverge as time goes on. It's like a domino effect, you change one thing and that changes hundreds of things and each of those things change hundreds more.

We draft VY, he doesn't become ROY. If we draft VY, maybe we don't draft Demeco. Who knows? It's just kinda pointless. We are what we are and this is what it is.


I believe the term we are searching for is the butterfly effect.

Mike

Malloy
08-29-2007, 04:41 AM
Actually it was once in 10 attempts...but who's counting? :shades:

We only attempted to win 6 of them :)

FirstTexansFan
08-29-2007, 07:18 AM
Okay guys, I know it's still a little premature...


How can ya be an AllStar and be premature? Now on to more important things :)

Texans_Chick
08-29-2007, 08:11 AM
Texans Chick's scenario is very similar to the organization in Atlanta. Our scenario is building to be more like the organization in New England.


go texans.

Well, yeah I thought of the Falcons.

I do not think that VY and Vick have the same game, and I think VY's situation as it relates to Houston is unique. They are similar in that they have unique talents that a conventional offense can't exploit properly.

If VY were a Texan, he would have an unprecidented amount of leverage over the coach and organization. This combined with him having an agent who is a family friend could be squirrelly. My alternative history involved the Falcons, but Vick in Atlanta never would be as popular as VY in Houston.

This is not to say that the Texans couldn't win with VY. I wouldn't have wanted to draft him if I felt that way. VY with good QB coaching and an electric atmosphere could be amazing. I'm not sure the choice ever was between fans in the seats or building a team the *right way* for long term success. There is no one right way to build a team, and it is quite possible that VY could have been the foundation for success for a decade.

The only thing we know about alternative history is that we would never know. Even any success he has as a Titan doesn't translate to having success as a Texan. And we don't know how the drafts woulda gone differently if VY was picked.

So in sum, I like VY, but have been uncomfortable with having so much power with one player. He recognizes that, and tries to make a point of being a team guy but he'd have so much more power in Houston than he did starting out with the Titans. (a perfect situation for him because the owner will support the heck out of him until he gets used up).

nunusguy
08-29-2007, 08:48 AM
Like an awful lot of people including opponents, just observers, and even supporters I've learned that VY can exceed just about anybodys expectations
for him. He has been truly special up to now and his incredible career could continue to only go one way and that's straight up. In spite of all that, I still think there's a reasonable chance we could be better off with MS over the long-term than VY.

barrett
08-30-2007, 04:15 AM
This is not to say that the Texans couldn't win with VY. I wouldn't have wanted to draft him if I felt that way. VY with good QB coaching and an electric atmosphere could be amazing. I'm not sure the choice ever was between fans in the seats or building a team the *right way* for long term success. There is no one right way to build a team, and it is quite possible that VY could have been the foundation for success for a decade.


I don't have any issues with him either. I absolutely agree that he could have been a long term solution. As we know, it was about timing. It wasn't about Vince Young which in my opinion is what makes this organization so great. It wasn't about Vince Young. It wasn't about David Carr. It was about the Texans. At the time, the decisions that were made were thought to give the Texans the best chance to win. I don't buy that McNair was "win with Carr or else." in his coach interviews. I do buy that he had a quarterback that he / the team had invested alot of time and money into and there was a motivation to make it work with the parts that we had already invested so much time in.

It wasn't until after the coach said that he THOUGHT he could make it work that the bonus was paid to Carr.

I do think that the "right way" is passing on the hometown hero because at that time it wasn't thought that it would be in the best interest of the team. Passing on a running back that doesn't ideally fit the system and choosing a less popular player that the organization believed gave the Texans a better chance of success represents that kind of thinking as well.

I do want to reference the Patriots organization again, everyone used to talk about how it was a team of not so flashy guys that have this extremely tight knit team that didn't really have a single standout. Even their superstar quarterback remained a modest member of the team and still does through all their success.

Players want to play there. not just to win, but to be a part of that organization. I feel like that's what we're building towards. I'm not comparing us to them, I"m just saying I feel like that there are similarities there.