PDA

View Full Version : King Solomon: Mario's gonna suck sometimes...get used to it...


real
08-21-2007, 10:39 AM
Last week I broke down every play of the preseason opener involving Mario Williams to try to calm you worriers. It didn't work.
You're back after Week 2 with the same issues.
I wonder why people seem to have a problem with the idea that Mario Williams will not dominate every game, let alone preseason games.
On a side note: I wonder why Texans coaches seem surprised that Williams dominates some practice sessions and is invisible in others.
Remember the day a couple weeks ago when Texans coaches upset Williams, and he dominated practice (http://blogs.chron.com/sportsupdate/archives/2007/07/center_lb_jobs.html)? (Fifth note down, titled "Getting on No. 90's back.")
At N.C. State, Mario was part of the group that head coach Chuck Amato called a "Dairy Queen" front (soft serve) during two-a-days because of their poor practice habits.


This is what you will get from Mario Williams, people, get used to it.


Williams is only 22 years old, but his football history suggests that he does a lot in a short time and he quite often does nothing. In other words, at times he is great and at other times, Homeland Security can't verify that he was on the team flight to road games.
The Texans knew that (or should have known it) when they drafted him No. 1 overall.
In college, Williams says he had only one sack in the first five games of his final year at N.C. State because it took him that long to figure out how to deal with cut blocks. Last year, Texans coaches were telling Mario when to try certain moves to get to the passer, in a sense scripting for him what for the great ones come naturally.
Last week, in an interview with ESPN.com writer and the pride of Baylor Matt Mosley (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp07/columns/story?columnist=mosley_matt&id=2978578),

N.D. Kalu hinted that Williams was so confused that he was doing pass rush moves like dance steps. Dancing With the Stars won't lead to more sacks.
That said, I'm expecting huge things from Williams this season. I just don't know in which games he will be huge and in which games he will be insignificant. He is on a seven-game sack-less streak. And no, that doesn't include the two exhibition games the Texans have played this preseason.
Mario had 14 ½ sacks in his final season at N.C. State. Most of them came in three games. He had four sacks against Maryland, 3 ½ against Southern Miss and three against Wake Forest. The year before that he had seven sacks, with almost half (three) of those coming in one game.


He will have big games as a pro. (... When he gets good and ready and mad). He will have bad ones too. (... When he's not good and ready and mad.)
The night before N.C. State played Wake Forest, Amato tore into his defensive line, challenging one-sack-in-five-games Mario with: "If you're that good, prove it."
"I was like, 'OK you want me to prove a point?'" Williams told the News and Record after he went out and got the trio of sacks against Wake, and followed that the next week with the Southern Miss game in which he had seven QB hurries to go with bringing the quarterback down four times.


This week, Mario will hear and read about how pitiful he has been. His coaches will challenge him. He will be upset. He will take it out on the Dallas Cowboys in a meaningless preseason game.
Texans fans ought to hold their anger/disappointment/Mario taunts for when it counts. We know Williams will respond. Why waste that response now?

http://blogs.chron.com/jeromesolomon/2007/08/leave_mario_alone_until_the_re.html

Old School
08-21-2007, 11:01 AM
....Texans fans ought to hold their anger/disappointment/Mario taunts for when it counts. We know Williams will respond. Why waste that response now?

Do we know he will respond? I don't. I'm not asking for a sack in preseason, I'm not even asking for a tackle (although a few would be nice). I would just like to see some quickness off of the line, occasionally beat the OL to the point of attack and once in a while make the person in front of him his personal B**ch.:whip:

badboy
08-21-2007, 11:16 AM
Despite injury as well documented Mario played in 16 games. How many tackles including assists did Mario get last year? 47. I understand that DT and MLB will get the most, but 3 per game avg? Seemed a mite low to me.

nunusguy
08-21-2007, 11:17 AM
"N.D. Kalu hinted that Williams was so confused that he was doing pass rush moves like dance steps. Dancing With the Stars won't lead to more sacks. "
***************************
I dunno I never played DE (or DLine at all for that matter), but is learning the techniqes, methods, etc. of that position that hard and if so how long does it take ?
Maybe I just need to be more patient, but it sure feels like we are still in Marios rookie year ?

Double Barrel
08-21-2007, 11:26 AM
Stay tuned for the inevitable backlash of folks who will criticize the rush to judgment, and the return salvo of insinuating remarks that fast food culture is ruining pro football with desires of instant gratification, then some meaningless stats about other DE's will be posted, with more meaningless stats about yada yada yada....
:panic: :chicken: :phone: :dangit:

Meanwhile, those of us somewhere in the middle, who would like to see a moment of greatness every once in awhile but constantly preaching patience for a young guy to learn a tough position...
:popcorn: we gave YKW 5 seasons...

Specnatz
08-21-2007, 11:33 AM
Stay tuned for the inevitable backlash of folks who will criticize the rush to judgment, and the return salvo of insinuating remarks that fast food culture is ruining pro football with desires of instant gratification, then some meaningless stats about other DE's will be posted, with more meaningless stats about yada yada yada....
:panic: :chicken: :phone: :dangit:

Meanwhile, those of us somewhere in the middle, who would like to see a moment of greatness every once in awhile but constantly preaching patience for a young guy to learn a tough position...
:popcorn: we gave YKW 5 seasons...


Sits back and waits for http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o195/Specnatz/fan.gif

TK_Gamer
08-21-2007, 12:12 PM
I am of the patient variety, but I must admit it can be agonizing watching potential stars learn their trade. I drool though in anticipation of the day Mario, Amobi, and TJ reach their potential and have all the knowledge and experience to dominate in the NFL.

TK_Gamer
08-21-2007, 12:16 PM
another agonizing thing is watching Spencer on the sidelines. I think our O-line is very close to jelling but Spencer is the final piece and the longer he sits out, the longer we have to wait for the pro bowl line we have all hoped and prayed for. It too will come though, I feel it.

Htownsportsfan
08-21-2007, 12:33 PM
Despite injury as well documented Mario played in 16 games. How many tackles including assists did Mario get last year? 47. I understand that DT and MLB will get the most, but 3 per game avg? Seemed a mite low to me.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonString=2006-REG&archive=true&statisticPositionCategory=DEFENSIVE_LINEMAN&d-447263-o=2&Submit=Find&conference=null&tabSeq=1&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=DEFENSIVE_ASSIST&experience=null&d-447263-n=1

Actually Mario's numbers were not that bad last year for a first year player. Check out the D-line stats on NFL.com and look at De and Mario ranked 22 with 30 solo tackles (you gotta skip the DT's listed). What hurt his overall number was he only had 12 assisted tackles according to NFL.com. Was Dwight Freeneyt\ hurt last year? He started all 16 games but his overall production was even lower than Mario's, he had 26 total tackles and only 3 assisted and on;ly 5.5 sacks, but the guy makes an impact on the game for sure. Just another example of the numbers not painting the real picture.

http://www.nfl.com/players/dwightfreeney/profile?id=FRE417537

Vinny
08-21-2007, 01:25 PM
Is there anyway for us to schedule Wake Forrest?

Porky
08-21-2007, 01:29 PM
I am of the patient variety, but I must admit it can be agonizing watching potential stars learn their trade. I drool though in anticipation of the day Mario, Amobi, and TJ reach their potential and have all the knowledge and experience to dominate in the NFL.


This guy is no potential star. He has played like dog**** since he stepped his first foot into Texas. Solomon is just another in a long line of excuse makers. The guy was the #1 overall pick, and is being outplayed by UDFA's. It's time to stop making excuses for this bust and ask him to start performing. If he does diddly squat again this week, I would bench his ass. Let's get someone in the game that actually acts like he cares and will give 100% effort on each and every play, not take plays off. Mario is more interested in street racing then football judging by his devil may care attitutde, and I for one am about fed up with him and his lazy butt. Perform or get rid of him.

Exithios
08-21-2007, 01:44 PM
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonString=2006-REG&archive=true&statisticPositionCategory=DEFENSIVE_LINEMAN&d-447263-o=2&Submit=Find&conference=null&tabSeq=1&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=DEFENSIVE_ASSIST&experience=null&d-447263-n=1

Actually Mario's numbers were not that bad last year for a first year player. Check out the D-line stats on NFL.com and look at De and Mario ranked 22 with 30 solo tackles (you gotta skip the DT's listed). What hurt his overall number was he only had 12 assisted tackles according to NFL.com. Was Dwight Freeneyt\ hurt last year? He started all 16 games but his overall production was even lower than Mario's, he had 26 total tackles and only 3 assisted and on;ly 5.5 sacks, but the guy makes an impact on the game for sure. Just another example of the numbers not painting the real picture.

http://www.nfl.com/players/dwightfreeney/profile?id=FRE417537

Dwight Freeney has already earned his reputation as one of the premeir DE's in the NFL therefor his numbers will reflect the fact that opposing offenses establish their game plans around him. His low tackle numbers are a testament to the fear opposing offenses have of him.

We can only hope that Mario establishes himself in the near furure (Hou vs. Dal. would be a good start).

infantrycak
08-21-2007, 01:49 PM
Dwight Freeney has already earned his reputation as one of the premeir DE's in the NFL therefor his numbers will reflect the fact that opposing offenses establish their game plans around him. His low tackle numbers are a testament to the fear opposing offenses have of him.

We can only hope that Mario establishes himself in the near furure (Hou vs. Dal. would be a good start).

Freeney was decidedly off his game last year and he has been schemed against for years so nothing was new last year. His low tackle totals are also a result of him being below average against the run.

real
08-21-2007, 01:51 PM
Read a stat somewhere that said Freeney was one of the least run at DE's last year..

threetoedpete
08-21-2007, 01:51 PM
This guy is no potential star. He has played like dog**** since he stepped his first foot into Texas. Solomon is just another in a long line of excuse makers. The guy was the #1 overall pick, and is being outplayed by UDFA's. It's time to stop making excuses for this bust and ask him to start performing. If he does diddly squat again this week, I would bench his ass. Let's get someone in the game that actually acts like he cares and will give 100% effort on each and every play, not take plays off. Mario is more interested in street racing then football judging by his devil may care attitutde, and I for one am about fed up with him and his lazy butt. Perform or get rid of him.

The coach is saying he is not lazy. From what I've seen he is not taking plays off. And no, I do not want to get into cap hell again over Mario. If he does didly squat against the hated cawboys, who look to have one of the better o-lines for '07, and the best rb tandum in the league for my money, ....you run him back onto the practice feild tuesday and start over. This foot goes here. That foot goes there. The third step you do this. And you continue the process untill he gets it. That's it. It's going to be like gutting the fall pig. But this franchise cannot afford another d-lineman miss.

real
08-21-2007, 01:56 PM
If you need motivation...is that not a lack of effort ?

I personally don't think so...

I think that points to a lack of focus...

HoustonFrog
08-21-2007, 01:56 PM
While I'm a guy who is in the middle and will not rush to judgement regarding Mario I do have a question....is this city, etc TOO PATIENT? I mean I feel like this is all people discuss. This guy was the overall #1 pick. Yet we marvel at how good DeMeco Ryans is...a guy who, in his rookie year, RAN a defense and made plays. He wasn't stunted learning. We already went through having patience with Carr. We have had to have patience for Travis and Babin and we held on to a constantly injured TE for a bit. We hold onto our baseball players longer than their shelf lives out of loyalty and to the detriment of the team...not a Biggio reference. Most of this comes from some "flashes" of brilliance. I guess I look at the sports landscape and see guys...like DeMeco...make a difference. Yet everytime someone fails to produce we get "patient" speeches and how hard it is to learn a new system..blah, blah, blah. What is wrong with expecting greatness when the pick you made is supposed to symbolize greatness?

Again, I'm not jumping on the guy. I'm waiting until the season rolls around. But is it so wrong not to have patience and to expect people to actually do what they are paid to do? If the guy is confused, don't give him a plan and tell him to sick the quarterback.

Sometimes patience isn't a virtue and we should look at Ryans and right now maybe Jacoby as guys who have IT to start making a difference.

threetoedpete
08-21-2007, 01:59 PM
Freeney was decidedly off his game last year and he has been schemed against for years so nothing was new last year. His low tackle totals are also a result of him being below average against the run.

I'm guessing...guessing mind you, that Freeny had a bad shoulder and Tony and Company fudged on reporting it. As you say he was off of his game last year.

real
08-21-2007, 02:00 PM
I think it's asanine to compare Mario to Dwight...

I really don't understand the comparison...

barrett
08-21-2007, 02:21 PM
While I'm a guy who is in the middle and will not rush to judgement regarding Mario I do have a question....is this city, etc TOO PATIENT? I mean I feel like this is all people discuss. This guy was the overall #1 pick. Yet we marvel at how good DeMeco Ryans is...a guy who, in his rookie year, RAN a defense and made plays. He wasn't stunted learning. We already went through having patience with Carr. We have had to have patience for Travis and Babin and we held on to a constantly injured TE for a bit. We hold onto our baseball players longer than their shelf lives out of loyalty and to the detriment of the team...not a Biggio reference. Most of this comes from some "flashes" of brilliance. I guess I look at the sports landscape and see guys...like DeMeco...make a difference. Yet everytime someone fails to produce we get "patient" speeches and how hard it is to learn a new system..blah, blah, blah. What is wrong with expecting greatness when the pick you made is supposed to symbolize greatness?

Again, I'm not jumping on the guy. I'm waiting until the season rolls around. But is it so wrong not to have patience and to expect people to actually do what they are paid to do? If the guy is confused, don't give him a plan and tell him to sick the quarterback.

Sometimes patience isn't a virtue and we should look at Ryans and right now maybe Jacoby as guys who have IT to start making a difference.


Great post. Excellent point. I understand that some positions are harder to learn than others but at what point are we coddling versus calling a spade a spade. I, much like you, am very much in the middle on the Mario Williams debate. I don't think I'll rush to any sort of judgement until the season is completed and even then I expect to only be leaning to one side or another.

anywhoo, once again, great post. rep.

badboy
08-21-2007, 02:26 PM
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonString=2006-REG&archive=true&statisticPositionCategory=DEFENSIVE_LINEMAN&d-447263-o=2&Submit=Find&conference=null&tabSeq=1&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=DEFENSIVE_ASSIST&experience=null&d-447263-n=1

Actually Mario's numbers were not that bad last year for a first year player. Check out the D-line stats on NFL.com and look at De and Mario ranked 22 with 30 solo tackles (you gotta skip the DT's listed). What hurt his overall number was he only had 12 assisted tackles according to NFL.com. Was Dwight Freeneyt\ hurt last year? He started all 16 games but his overall production was even lower than Mario's, he had 26 total tackles and only 3 assisted and on;ly 5.5 sacks, but the guy makes an impact on the game for sure. Just another example of the numbers not painting the real picture.

http://www.nfl.com/players/dwightfreeney/profile?id=FRE417537
It is well known what Freeney brings to the field. Not so with MW.

infantrycak
08-21-2007, 02:30 PM
I think it's asanine to compare Mario to Dwight...

I really don't understand the comparison...

Geez, using two names in the same sentence doesn't mean the two people are being declared identical in every facet. The discussion was about productivity from the RDE position. Not much of a stretch from there to look at one of the most famous guys.

Texans Horror
08-21-2007, 02:36 PM
Linemen and quarterbacks take time to develop (except when moving to a similar coaching scheme or when they are people who pick up on things quickly). That's why I understand the need to preach patience when it comes to Mario. At the same time, he is in his second year and so he should show improvement. If he is not showing improvement, then fans should complain.

I think that if Mario had been put into a defense that is much better put together and was just missing that one defensive end, his numbers would be much better and we would not be having this debate. However, he does not have that support system around him. On his side of the defensive line, Mario is the veteran presence.

HoustonFrog
08-21-2007, 02:39 PM
Linemen and quarterbacks take time to develop (except when moving to a similar coaching scheme or when they are people who pick up on things quickly). That's why I understand the need to preach patience when it comes to Mario. At the same time, he is in his second year and so he should show improvement. If he is not showing improvement, then fans should complain.

I think that if Mario had been put into a defense that is much better put together and was just missing that one defensive end, his numbers would be much better and we would not be having this debate. However, he does not have that support system around him. On his side of the defensive line, Mario is the veteran presence.

Again, I'm riding the fence BUT playing Devil's Advocate here...he is the #1 pick, shouldn't he be the ONE making it that much better and not need 3 other guys to support his style..whatever style that is?Just asking.

real
08-21-2007, 02:45 PM
Again, I'm riding the fence BUT playing Devil's Advocate here...he is the #1 pick, shouldn't he be the ONE making it that much better and not need 3 other guys to support his style..whatever style that is?Just asking.

Yes.

If the defense was good before he got here we probably wouldn't have been picking number 1 overall.

Vinny
08-21-2007, 03:32 PM
It is well known what Freeney brings to the field. Not so with MW.
and it is also a classic example of why just looking at stat lines is football is useless much of the time. Nobody would take Mario over Freeney but if you look at a stat line and never watch them play you may do what the Texans did and draft him number one!

cuppacoffee
08-21-2007, 03:36 PM
Is there anyway for us to schedule Wake Forrest?

We are Wake Forrest. ..:D

In the profootball world.


:coffee:

Htownsportsfan
08-21-2007, 03:37 PM
I think it's asanine to compare Mario to Dwight...

I really don't understand the comparison...


My point was more that numbers can be used on both sides of the argument and cant be used to show production. Of course that said there has been no production so far. So far Mario looks lost to me, not really lazy but like many have already said he looks like he is slow and thinking way to much. I will be the first to admit I am hoping he is just lost and will catch on and his game will improve becaause he is one of the strating DE for my Texan's and therefore I must hold out hope no matter what his draft position was!

real
08-21-2007, 03:42 PM
My point was more that numbers can be used on both sides of the argument and cant be used to show production.



It's not really hard to watch a Texans game and see a number #1 DE playing like Mr. Non-relevant...

The numbers only reflect that in this case...

My point was that if you know anything about football you can't use one players numbers to compare to another players....

Marios' numbers 0 0 0 0 0 0 only reflect the way he's been playing...

In order to better understand Freeney's numbers you have to watch him play...

You can't just look at the numbers and say "see...Freeny only had ___ sacks too"...No...you have to look at film and see why Freeney had that many sacks...We knoe why Mario numbers are bad...That's because he's playing bad....I suspect Freeney's numbers are lower because of a slightly different reason...

comparing their stats is pointless....

Porky
08-21-2007, 03:42 PM
The coach is saying he is not lazy. From what I've seen he is not taking plays off. And no, I do not want to get into cap hell again over Mario. If he does didly squat against the hated cawboys, who look to have one of the better o-lines for '07, and the best rb tandum in the league for my money, ....you run him back onto the practice feild tuesday and start over. This foot goes here. That foot goes there. The third step you do this. And you continue the process untill he gets it. That's it. It's going to be like gutting the fall pig. But this franchise cannot afford another d-lineman miss.

So, we gotta teach the #1 draft pick to put one foot in front of the other? Soon, he'll be walkin out the door...

Double Barrel
08-21-2007, 03:50 PM
So, we gotta teach the #1 draft pick to put one foot in front of the other? Soon, he'll be walkin out the door...

Well, at least we didnt' have to teach him to write his name. He was able to sign on the dotted line without any coaching at all! :joker:

BigTimeTexanFan
08-21-2007, 03:51 PM
Read a stat somewhere that said Freeney was one of the least run at DE's last year..
That's because he's 10 yards up the field trying to sack the QB.
"Oh crap, he doesn't have the ball!", Freeney.

Texans Horror
08-21-2007, 03:56 PM
Again, I'm riding the fence BUT playing Devil's Advocate here...he is the #1 pick, shouldn't he be the ONE making it that much better and not need 3 other guys to support his style..whatever style that is?Just asking.

You've got a valid point and one that many people would agree with. AJ, for example, picked up very quickly on how to perform well within the Texans schemes - poor schemes - and while surrounded by bad players and rookies. Dunta, too, continues to succeed (depending on who you talk to) even though he is surrounded by some pretty low-talent players that get little support from the d-line. So why is it that if Dunta and AJ can overcome those barriers, that Mario and TJ and Babin cannot? I suspect this is where discussion of drive, motor, ball-hawking, and "football intelligence" comes into play.

But then you can look at Joseph Addai and how well he performed on a Colts offense that was missing that last piece - the running back. Even better (and I have not done it) is to look at other 2006 defensive draft picks and see how well they performed, especially if they were on a poor defensive unit.

threetoedpete
08-21-2007, 03:58 PM
So, we gotta teach the #1 draft pick to put one foot in front of the other? Soon, he'll be walkin out the door...

Till someone tells me other wise that's what I'm getting. he's not smelling the flowers. He's hustleing. Means he's not the sharpest tack in the box.

threetoedpete
08-21-2007, 04:06 PM
I mean good greif Porky the guy is built like a gorrilla. He should be able to go to hell and kick satin in the jewlels and smile at the devil while he's doing it. Gotta be something. Remember the animal trainers with the counting horse long ago Porky. The kid tells the horse to add two numbers and the horse stamps his hoof untill he gets the correct answer ? I'm not there i dunno. Gotta be something.

The Pencil Neck
08-21-2007, 04:23 PM
I mean good greif Porky the guy is built like a gorrilla. He should be able to go to hell and kick satin in the jewlels and smile at the devil while he's doing it.

This is just an aside and has almost NOTHING to do with what this thread is about but in an earlier thread you wrote "great satin" and I really had no idea what you were talking about. After reading this post, I finally got it. You meant SATAN. Satan and Satin are two totally different things. One letter, big difference. I don't mean to be a spelling Nazi but there are times when a mistake like this really changes what it is you're trying to say.

When you called Carr the Great Satin in another thread, I thought you were saying that he's a really smooth player. I think some other people were confused by that as well.

real
08-21-2007, 04:26 PM
I mean good greif Porky the guy is built like a gorrilla. He should be able to go to hell and kick satin in the jewlels and smile at the devil while he's doing it. Gotta be something. Remember the animal trainers with the counting horse long ago Porky. The kid tells the horse to add two numbers and the horse stamps his hoof untill he gets the correct answer ? I'm not there i dunno. Gotta be something.

Maybe he's just not they type of player everyone wants him to be.

ObsiWan
08-21-2007, 04:56 PM
why don't we just cut him?

will you be happy then?

real
08-21-2007, 05:27 PM
why don't we just cut him?

will you be happy then?

No, he's hear now so we need to work with him...


I'd much rather the coaches find a position that fits his skill set better....like Strong side DE...