PDA

View Full Version : McClain:How would you motivate Mario?


Wolf
08-19-2007, 02:15 PM
I'm going to keep this short and sweet. Actually, I'm going to steal Anna-Megan's idea of asking you guys a question: Other than literally lighting a fire under him, if you were the Texans coaches, what would you do to motivate Mario Williams?

I'm going to write a column in Wednesday's Chronicle about Mario and how disappointing he's been in preseason. I'm going to take the two- or three-best suggestions you send to this blog and use them in my Page 2 column on Wednesday.

I'm going to record the Dallas game. Afterward, I'm going to watch Mario over and over. I'm going to keep track of every play -- who's blocking him, what he does and what the play is. I'm going to see if the Cowboys run at him or away from him or if it even makes a difference. I'm going to document every single move I see Mario Williams make, and I'm going to list them in this blog.

Anyway, thanks ahead of time for contributing. Now, fire away: How would you motivate Mario?


http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2007/08/how_would_you_motivate_mario_w.html

Double Barrel
08-19-2007, 03:16 PM
Send your Madden '08 covers to Mario c/o the Houston Texans. :neener:

Vinny
08-19-2007, 03:18 PM
the best way to motivate players that don't produce is to bench them and take away their starting spot...no better time than now when it doesn't count. It's sad that we are even talking about motivating Mario and his 50 million guaranteed cash.

The Dream
08-19-2007, 03:20 PM
the best way to motivate players that don't produce is to bench them and take away their starting spot...no better time than now when it doesn't count.

I agree....other methods in practice are obviously not getting through to this guy....if he's playing like a 3rd stringer maybe the coaching staff should treat him like one and take away his minutes.........

Double Barrel
08-19-2007, 03:21 PM
the best way to motivate players that don't produce is to bench them and take away their starting spot...no better time than now when it doesn't count. It's sad that we are even talking about motivating Mario and his 50 million guaranteed cash.

I am extremely disappointed that Mario requires outside motivation at all. It is not consistent with everything I've ever read about the great ones in sports who motivate themselves from within. It's called heart, and obviously some have it more than others.

The Dream
08-19-2007, 03:21 PM
vince has heart.........


*dream runs and leaves thread*

Silver Oak
08-19-2007, 03:30 PM
Not exactly sure we can question a mans courage and heart that played in extreme pain for most of his first season when he quite easily could have had himself benched.

I'll wait for the season to unfold before passing judgement.

I'll also hope for the best.

Texans_Chick
08-19-2007, 03:31 PM
We are talking about motivating Mario because John McClain thinks it is an issue. From the comments:

{Casey, you miss the point. It's not that Mario doesn't have a sack. Is it too much to ask him to make a tackle? To assist on a tackle? To chase down a play? To tie up two blockers and free up someone else to make a tackle? Yes, it's preseason, and he might be ready to turn it on against the Cowboys or maybe the Chiefs. We'll see. Because of who he is and where he was drafted, he's going to be held to a higher standard than other players. I'm not saying he's a mistake. I'm not saying it's time to write him off. But I am saying he should be playing harder and showing up on the stat sheet at least once in two preseason games. -- JOHN}


Though Mario wasn't terribly effective yesterday, at least from my eyes it didn't look like a lack of effort. (Though I suppose, I should just look at stat sheets instead of my eyes). You know, where you are begging your readers to come up with ridiculous ways to motivate Mario so that you can publish them in the newspaper and get lots of page hits with a pile-on Mario post.

FWIW, this is what Kubiak says on the effort issue (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=3513):

Its pretty obvious hes got to play better. Hes got to be more of a factor for us to become a great defense, Kubiak said of Williams. I dont see a lack of effort in the kid, but its obvious we as coaches have to take more upon ourselves to get him in position to make some of those plays. Hes got his part to do, weve got our part to do.

I guess that is coach speak for: "I really hope the Houston Chronicle readers come up with ways to motivate Mario, such as the witty threat to mess up his Lamborghini blast. Boy howdy, that's some great humor."

Vinny
08-19-2007, 03:33 PM
We are talking about motivating Mario because John McClain thinks it is an issue. From the comments:




Though Mario wasn't terribly effective yesterday, at least from my eyes it didn't look like a lack of effort. (Though I suppose, I should just look at stat sheets instead of my eyes). You know, where you are begging your readers to come up with ridiculous ways to motivate Mario so that you can publish them in the newspaper and get lots of page hits with a pile-on Mario post.

FWIW, this is what Kubiak says on the effort issue (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=3513):



I guess that is coach speak for: "I really hope the Houston Chronicle readers come up with ways to motivate Mario, such as the witty threat to mess up his Lamborghini blast. Boy howdy, that's some great humor."
I just wish effort equated to good play. I'm sure Carr gave a good effort for all 5 years he was here.

Double Barrel
08-19-2007, 03:39 PM
We are talking about motivating Mario because John McClain thinks it is an issue.

We've talked about it before this article, as well. When we hear a coach telling us that he had to chew Mario out to make him mad, and this resulted in better practice for him, then I see outside motivation being required.

I want the guy to succeed as much as anyone, but he still looks like a force field is sticking him to the first offensive lineman that hits him. I'm not seeing a fierceness in his play that refuses to allow someone to stop him. I watched yesterday's first team several times, and Mario never seemed to get away from his first block.

If there is something 'magical' that happens when the games count, then consider these games pointless to analyze. But I think you play like you practice, and I'm having a hard time believing that Mario is just going to turn it on when regular season starts. We should be seeing some indication of something right now, IMO.

Rex King
08-19-2007, 03:39 PM
I don't see a problem with his motivation on the field. Off the field, he may not be doing everything he can - studying film, working on his own technique.

I can see why we have two senior coaches devoted fulltime to the d-line. There are more than four guys who they have to coach up. Zgonina's the only real vet. There's no Reggie White or Jevon Kearse to mentor any of them. It would be a lot easier if the rest of the line was established and Bush or Franklin could devote their time to working with Mario or Amobi.

Wolf
08-19-2007, 03:43 PM
http://mud.mm-a3.yimg.com/image/2512838725

guess chron can run R.I.P. photo?

Brando
08-19-2007, 03:44 PM
I just wish effort equated to good play. I'm sure Carr gave a good effort for all 5 years he was here.


Well alot of posters on here seem to think he lacks the effort. He displays alot of effort IMO. It's also good to here it from Coach Kubes as well.




Let's see how he does in his 2nd year. I think Mario will have a bigger impact on the Texans in a good way than David Carr did.( I know that's not alot, lol)


A watched pot never boils.

Texans_Chick
08-19-2007, 03:44 PM
I just wish effort equated to good play. I'm sure Carr gave a good effort for all 5 years he was here.

Exactly.

I am expecting to hear a lot of the debates about Carr being rehashed as Mario stuff.

(coaching carousel, young group he is working with, no talented veteran leadership, how can you evaluate fire and heart blah blah blah. He also has the black cloud of the 2006 draft hanging over his head so his good will with the fan base is very limited and the burden of living up to a fat contract that often fans and teammates resent).

That being said, I think you can overlearn mistakes of the past. Carr is Carr, and Mario is Mario. All players have pluses and minuses. I would like to see more. I'd also like to see more from the defense as a whole. (Richard Smith is going to get a pass from John McClain until and unless it gets impossible not to critique him--McClain likes him a lot).

HoustonFrog
08-19-2007, 03:45 PM
The thought itself...motivation..for a #1 pick that people doubt is flawed to start with. That right there should be motivation enough. Personally I hated being doubted when I played sports and wanted to kill the other team. I'd hope that the people you put on the field have that same mentality and at some point hard work in general pays off.

Vinny
08-19-2007, 03:51 PM
Exactly.

I am expecting to hear a lot of the debates about Carr being rehashed as Mario stuff.

(coaching carousel, young group he is working with, no talented veteran leadership, how can you evaluate fire and heart blah blah blah. He also has the black cloud of the 2006 draft hanging over his head so his good will with the fan base is very limited and the burden of living up to a fat contract that often fans and teammates resent).

That being said, I think you can overlearn mistakes of the past. Carr is Carr, and Mario is Mario. All players have pluses and minuses. I would like to see more. I'd also like to see more from the defense as a whole. (Richard Smith is going to get a pass from John McClain until and unless it gets impossible not to critique him--McClain likes him a lot).
agreed on many levels....right now we are what we are (to steal a phrase from the Tuna), so while patience from the fans isn't always something that is easy for us (or more specifically me)....I think all we can do is be patient and hope that Mario starts making plays. It's not like we can go exchange him like a bad lawnmower you get at walmart. Hopefully one day we will eventually have something to be proud of when it comes to 1st overall selections.

The1ApplePie
08-19-2007, 04:01 PM
Hopefully the cheers for VY will get him going. If not, then maybe the "Reggie! Reggie!" chants that will more than likely fill Reliant will do the trick.

Wolf
08-19-2007, 04:05 PM
Hopefully the cheers for VY will get him going. If not, then maybe the "Reggie! Reggie!" chants that will more than likely fill Reliant will do the trick.

I know you are joking but if that gets him motivated we are in sad shape...

Cheers for vince twice a year and cheers for Reggie 1 out of 4 years.. (when we play their respectable teams)

Just being with Demeco out to be motivation enough esp with his well deserved rookie of the year award

Porky
08-19-2007, 04:10 PM
Here's the team picture of Mario. I didn't realize he was born with a heart two sizes too small.


http://www.movingtofreedom.org/images/2006/08/grinch_heart.jpg

hollywood_texan
08-19-2007, 04:17 PM
It's sad that we are even talking about motivating Mario and his 50 million guaranteed cash.
I don't think Mario is guaranteed on $50 million, it's probably somewhere in the mid 20's

As to motivating a #1 draft pick with a huge contract, it's not like we haven't dealt with this before. We get rid of one and continue with another.

So it seems.

By the way, Schaub looks pretty good! I have heavily analyzed that personnel move, it looks like it's going to pay off.

Trying to look on the bright side of things.

Texan Asylum
08-19-2007, 04:36 PM
By the way, Schaub looks pretty good! I have heavily analyzed that personnel move, it looks like it's going to pay off.



:cool:

real
08-19-2007, 04:59 PM
Mario's problem isn't motivation...

I don't look at film and see a guy who's not trying hard...

I see a guy with limited initial burst and limited quickness who is being asked to do something he's not really suited for...But just because he's not the prototypical WDE (RDE) doesn't mean he can't eventually become a good pass rusher...BUT THE ODDS ARE AGAINST HIM....He has too many things to work on both physically and mentally IMO...

They need to move this guy to the other DE position; and the Texans already know this...That is why they had him playing SDE last season and tried AW at DT...Because AW at DT = huge holes in the run game they are trying to make Mario = pass ruxh specialist when that's really not fair to Mario....

Mario's play dissapoints me and I definitely think he can do better, but I blame his overall ineffectiveness on the coaches.....Instead of putting the guy that you have taKEN #1 overall in a situation that best suits him, you instead try to make the AW aquisition not look so stupid....The fact is we picked up two DE's last off-seasomn that play the same position...

I've been saying this since early last season...

Mario and AW on the field at the same time = a bad overall D-line...It's almost like playing with 4 DT's...

Move Mario to the strong side now, let Babin and Kalu duke it out for the WDE position and let AW back up everyone...

I'm tired of seeing Mario look like a fish out of water...

Marcus
08-19-2007, 09:41 PM
Mario's problem isn't motivation...

I don't look at film and see a guy who's not trying hard...

I see a guy with limited initial burst and limited quickness who is being asked to do something he's not really suited for...But just because he's not the prototypical WDE (RDE) doesn't mean he can't eventually become a good pass rusher...BUT THE ODDS ARE AGAINST HIM....He has too many things to work on both physically and mentally IMO...

They need to move this guy to the other DE position; and the Texans already know this...That is why they had him playing SDE last season and tried AW at DT...Because AW at DT = huge holes in the run game they are trying to make Mario = pass ruxh specialist when that's really not fair to Mario....

Mario's play dissapoints me and I definitely think he can do better, but I blame his overall ineffectiveness on the coaches.....Instead of putting the guy that you have taKEN #1 overall in a situation that best suits him, you instead try to make the AW aquisition not look so stupid....The fact is we picked up two DE's last off-seasomn that play the same position...

I've been saying this since early last season...

Mario and AW on the field at the same time = a bad overall D-line...It's almost like playing with 4 DT's...

Move Mario to the strong side now, let Babin and Kalu duke it out for the WDE position and let AW back up everyone...

I'm tired of seeing Mario look like a fish out of water...

I agree with you on the motivation part. I rewatched the game, and I didn't see lack of motivation. I think most people (maybe some coaches included) just want to believe that's all it is . . . just lack of motivation. So all you need to do is find a way to 'motivate' him, and then everything is hunky dory . . instant stud DL. It's not going to be that simple.

Now, where I disagree with you, is your idea that you know more than the coaches do regarding how to play him.

Mario was the 1st overall pick of the draft, which distorts expectations to the max. Jason Babin was declared a bust by the fans and media because he didn't light it up the first couple of years he played. Travis Johnson was declared a bust by the media and fans because he didn't light it up the first couple of years he played. It's not unreasonable at all to see the pattern here. It takes 2 to 3 years for an NFL defensive lineman to develop. There are not going to be any quick fixes or short cuts.

Have I shown impatience with Mario. I'm guilty, I admit it. It will be frustrating to me to watch both Mario and Amobi go through their learning pains, make mistakes, and figure out, over time how to be a pro player.

But if I can wait 3 to 4 years for Carr to show me if he can get it done, I can at least give Mario at least half that time.

Htownsportsfan
08-19-2007, 10:23 PM
I agree with you on the motivation part. I rewatched the game, and I didn't see lack of motivation. I think most people (maybe some coaches included) just want to believe that's all it is . . . just lack of motivation. So all you need to do is find a way to 'motivate' him, and then everything is hunky dory . . instant stud DL. It's not going to be that simple.

Now, where I disagree with you, is your idea that you know more than the coaches do regarding how to play him.

Mario was the 1st overall pick of the draft, which distorts expectations to the max. Jason Babin was declared a bust by the fans and media because he didn't light it up the first couple of years he played. Travis Johnson was declared a bust by the media and fans because he didn't light it up the first couple of years he played. It's not unreasonable at all to see the pattern here. It takes 2 to 3 years for an NFL defensive lineman to develop. There are not going to be any quick fixes or short cuts.

Have I shown impatience with Mario. I'm guilty, I admit it. It will be frustrating to me to watch both Mario and Amobi go through their learning pains, make mistakes, and figure out, over time how to be a pro player.
But if I can wait 3 to 4 years for Carr to show me if he can get it done, I can at least give Mario at least half that time.


I agree with you 100%! However being an expansion team (not an excuse) and having Asserly blowing picks and bringing in weak free agents has put even more pressure on our last two draft classes. Our lack of overall talent on the D-line means we need and it appears from public opinion expect immediate impact from our rookies. If some of our early draft classes and free agents were making more of an impact people would still be bitc*ing about Mario but at tleast the additional talent would mean we could depend on them while Mario improves his game.

eriadoc
08-19-2007, 10:28 PM
I think a lot of people are jumping to conclusions way too early. Mario hasn't been particularly impressive; on that, I think we can all agree. But where do people get off assuming it's a motivation issue? Maybe, like Kalu says, he really does have 20 guys in his ear, all trying to coach him how to play. Maybe he really is trying to be the good employee and take the coaching. Maybe he's just got a steep learning curve. Maybe he just isn't that good. Any of these things are possible, and time will tell which it is.

I just don't buy that he isn't motivated.

Fiddy
08-19-2007, 10:31 PM
Ok, I was completely against this before, but it's time to key the Lambo.

real
08-19-2007, 10:33 PM
hghfg
Now, where I disagree with you, is your idea that you know more than the coaches do regarding how to play him.

Mario was the 1st overall pick of the draft, which distorts expectations to the max. Jason Babin was declared a bust by the fans and media because he didn't light it up the first couple of years he played. Travis Johnson was declared a bust by the media and fans because he didn't light it up the first couple of years he played. It's not unreasonable at all to see the pattern here. It takes 2 to 3 years for an NFL defensive lineman to develop. There are not going to be any quick fixes or short cuts.

Have I shown impatience with Mario. I'm guilty, I admit it. It will be frustrating to me to watch both Mario and Amobi go through their learning pains, make mistakes, and figure out, over time how to be a pro player.

But if I can wait 3 to 4 years for Carr to show me if he can get it done, I can at least give Mario at least half that time.

That's fine...disagreements are good...

But let me ask you this....Why do you put so much faith in the coaching staff's decisions regarding Mario when they admittedly said they made a mistake last year on how he was played? I just find your blind faith quite odd...:umm:

Why do you have faith in the the staff's personnel decisions regarding the decisions they make with the D-line when they are the ones who tried to play Weaver at DT ? AKA another failed experiment...

Just because the the new Texans under the guidance of Kubiak do it doesn't mean it's right....

P.S. I have a pretty long track record of saying that I thought TJ was a good ball player and I wanted Babin on the field more as a rusher....I knew they were both capable...

Napa Auto Parts
08-19-2007, 10:41 PM
the best way to motivate players that don't produce is to bench them and take away their starting spot...no better time than now when it doesn't count. It's sad that we are even talking about motivating Mario and his 50 million guaranteed cash.



May be that would of helped David Carr:specnatz:

Wolf
08-19-2007, 10:43 PM
I don't know, with an unproven defensive coaching staff, time will tell(defense)

they are going to be geniuses and make careers or they are going to ruin careers by not knowing how to use the talent they have (or make adjustments to philosophies (i.e. square peg ,round hole) ..

Wolf
08-19-2007, 10:45 PM
May be that would of helped David Carr:specnatz:

some reason Capers wouldn't do that.. I think it would have done wonders for Carr's career if Banks would have run the offense on game day at times (while Carr was struggling) to see how this offense could have ran... good or bad

BTW I am NOT making an excuse for Carr and his troubles.. I am saying (hindsight is 20/20) it could have helped (couldn't have done worse)

bayshorebevo
08-19-2007, 10:45 PM
May be that would of helped David Carr:specnatz:

Didn't they bench Carr last year during a game and he didn't take it too well?

Napa Auto Parts
08-19-2007, 10:53 PM
Didn't they bench Carr last year during a game and he didn't take it too well?

that was a Semi Benching Sage almost brought us back in that game againts the titans but Kubiak couldnt bench Carr for a game mostly i think becuase of the man crush Bobby Mcnair had on him.:gun:

Wolf
08-19-2007, 10:57 PM
that was a Semi Benching Sage almost brought us back in that game againts the titans but Kubiak couldnt bench Carr for a game mostly i think becuase of the man crush Bobby Mcnair had on him.:gun:

I am not sure on the man crush, I think it was a season that Kubiak had to know what he was working with and even if Carr wasn't the answer (which he wasn't), Kubiak had to play him to see if any light was at the end of the tunnell (and as metallica said.. light at the end of the tunnel, just a freight train coming your way)

Napa Auto Parts
08-19-2007, 11:02 PM
I am not sure on the man crush, I think it was a season that Kubiak had to know what he was working with and even if Carr wasn't the answer (which he wasn't), Kubiak had to play him to see if any light was at the end of the tunnell (and as metallica said.. light at the end of the tunnel, just a freight train coming your way)



Why would he need a season to figure out what all of us that arent related to david carr knew already.:shades: but i do think it sage would of been healthy @ the end of the season he would of been the one starting.

Wolf
08-19-2007, 11:04 PM
Why would he need a season to figure out what all of us that arent related to david carr knew already.:shades: but i do think it sage would of been healthy @ the end of the season he would of been the one starting.

money..david was making alot of money ..kubiak and his new system had to know if David could work in his system

Sage... I think we were reading too much into his game against the Titans.. if i can find the read i'll post it.. Titans were up so much that they basically went into a prevent defense...jason Garrett syndrome.

Sage brought us back, but for everything Sage did our defense did worse and couldn't make stops

*edit* about money.. David was making too much money to sit on the bench esp with a team that wasn't going to the playoffs.. Texans realized the experiment was over and let him go.. bottom line and if they thought Sage was the answer.. Matt wouldn't have been traded for

Napa Auto Parts
08-19-2007, 11:08 PM
money..david was making alot of money

We got out of topic but talking about money how awsome would it had been if we had not picked up david's roster bonus. and let him hit free agency and got him for pennies on the dollar.

Htownsportsfan
08-19-2007, 11:11 PM
Why would he need a season to figure out what all of us that arent related to david carr knew already.:shades: but i do think it sage would of been healthy @ the end of the season he would of been the one starting.

I dont know why people have such a hard time understanding why Kubiak thought he could win with Carr. Coach's including Kubiak have huge ego's some might even say a god complex. They all think they know best and that everyone else should just stay out of the way. Carr on tape looks like he should be able to win, Kubiak being a typical coach just knew he could fix what was wrong with Carr. He was wrong, dead wrong. Carr's problems are in his head but they stay well hidden until he is in under pressure in a game situation. He always says the right things to make people think its not his fault. I am glad Kubiak at least cut his losses and admitted his mistake and moved on after only one season. Many a coach has lost their job sticking with a player and thinking they can fix them season after season.

Leahmic223
08-19-2007, 11:12 PM
The benching of Carr really didn't make much of a difference.

I think he's motivated, he's just a quiet guy when it comes to the media. He did say "I want the record." and the reporter replied "Do you realize last season you were 18 sacks away." he replied "You have have your sights aimed high so I want the record."

Just because he's motivated doesn't mean he's going to play better. But if the other guy blocking him wants it just as much, then it comes down to skill and technique, something he's still got to improve on.

Like Kubes said, one thing that works this sunday isn't going to work the next. He just has to grow as a player. He isn't the DE with Big John Henderson and Giant Marcus Stroud playing inside. Would he do better for the Jags? Maybe we really don't know.

Our Dline has to grow as players. People are starting to see improvements in Babin and Johnson this is after 2 and 3 years. If those two play well it will make Mario's improvement easier.

I say if we can give Carr all those years why can't we lend Mario a few? I know we are impatient and tired of losing...but good things come to those who wait.

If our picks all reach potential you know...Mario, Okoye, Johnson, and Babin...you are talking about the four horsemen of the NFL :texflag:
I think I am going to dream that and hope it comes true.

kiwitexansfan
08-19-2007, 11:19 PM
I'm not blaming motivation or lack of suitabilty to the role.

I blame technique and experience. One you learn in practice the other in games so benching him won't help on that account.

Second Honeymoon
08-20-2007, 12:22 AM
the best way to motivate players that don't produce is to bench them and take away their starting spot...no better time than now when it doesn't count. It's sad that we are even talking about motivating Mario and his 50 million guaranteed cash.

yup. he needs to be benched for his lack of effort. he needs to earn his keep to keep his job. the benching didnt help our previous #1 overall pick but maybe things will be different with Mario.

the effort level was just pathetic just like it was in game 1. if your trying and getting your butt kicked that is one thing but to make no impact on the game while you are always on your feet at the end of the play shows me that he isn't giving enough effort....and it needs to be fixed or removed from the starting lineup.

Marcus
08-20-2007, 02:06 AM
hghfg

That's fine...disagreements are good...

But let me ask you this....Why do you put so much faith in the coaching staff's decisions regarding Mario when they admittedly said they made a mistake last year on how he was played? I just find your blind faith quite odd...:umm:

Why do you have faith in the the staff's personnel decisions regarding the decisions they make with the D-line when they are the ones who tried to play Weaver at DT ? AKA another failed experiment...

Just because the the new Texans under the guidance of Kubiak do it doesn't mean it's right....

P.S. I have a pretty long track record of saying that I thought TJ was a good ball player and I wanted Babin on the field more as a rusher....I knew they were both capable...

Oh . . so Kubiak, Sherman, and the rest of the coaching staff doesn't know diddly squat about how to run a football team, but you got the whole deal down cold, hey??? You know it all, but they don't.

That's exactly how just came across . . . arrogant as hell. Do you have any idea how arrogant you just sounded? Do you?????

Jeezus H.

:mad:

Vinny
08-20-2007, 02:15 AM
yup. he needs to be benched for his lack of effort. he needs to earn his keep to keep his job. the benching didnt help our previous #1 overall pick but maybe things will be different with Mario.

the effort level was just pathetic just like it was in game 1. if your trying and getting your butt kicked that is one thing but to make no impact on the game while you are always on your feet at the end of the play shows me that he isn't giving enough effort....and it needs to be fixed or removed from the starting lineup.

just reading lance Z's article reminded me that Mario was benched in College for a game for not being motivated or something....seems like a trend that Mario can't motivate himself perhaps?

BSofA04
08-20-2007, 02:45 AM
just reading lance Z's article reminded me that Mario was benched in College for a game for not being motivated or something....seems like a trend that Mario can't motivate himself perhaps?

That would be dissappointing to say the least.

He did state that he wanted to break the all-time sack record this season, but he's shooting too high IMO (esp. in today's NFL). Although attainable, such a record is unlikely. Consistent pressure on the QB is what I'd like to see from him. Sacks will take care of themselves. If he would have said 10-15 sacks, he might push himself harder to make an attainable goal. I'm not giving up on the guy, but I'd like to see a little more emotion.

JohnsonFan
08-20-2007, 03:18 AM
we should tell mario that if he doesnt step his game up we can lost games because of mistakes he may make

Carr Bombed
08-20-2007, 03:48 AM
Ok, I was completely against this before, but it's time to key the Lambo.

:laughjump: I just had a "fast times at richmond high" flashback

http://www.hadleysplace.com/images/header17full.jpg

Mario will have QBs blowing snot bubbles in no time....:cool:

The Pencil Neck
08-20-2007, 10:17 AM
just reading lance Z's article reminded me that Mario was benched in College for a game for not being motivated or something....seems like a trend that Mario can't motivate himself perhaps?

It wasn't just Mario that was benched. It was the whole first team defense, right? That included John McCargo and Mannie Lawson. I wonder if those guys get talked about not being motivated.

real
08-20-2007, 10:27 AM
He did state that he wanted to break the all-time sack record this season, but he's shooting too high IMO (esp. in today's NFL).

When he said that, I thought to myself: "what a clown...what a childish thing to say..."

HoustonFrog
08-20-2007, 10:31 AM
It wasn't just Mario that was benched. It was the whole first team defense, right? That included John McCargo and Mannie Lawson. I wonder if those guys get talked about not being motivated.

From what I heard this morning, he was benched and then came back with 3 sacks. John McC also said that one scout said that many of his big sack games were against freshman and back-ups and that Charlie C pretty much wasn't at his predraft workout and called JMac and told him they were brining Mario in...almost as ruse. Take it all with a grain of salt.

real
08-20-2007, 11:00 AM
Oh . . so Kubiak, Sherman, and the rest of the coaching staff doesn't know diddly squat about how to run a football team, but you got the whole deal down cold, hey??? You know it all, but they don't.

That's exactly how just came across . . . arrogant as hell. Do you have any idea how arrogant you just sounded? Do you?????

Jeezus H.

:mad:

I don't care if you think I sound arrogant...

I'm pretty confident in myself and if that comes off as arrogant so be it...

I've been wrong before, and I'll be wrong again...I'm human....I have an opinion and I stated it and I believe it...sue me....

And Kubiak never said T.J was a bust, so I'm not sure what you're talking about...They never even said he was a bad ball player...For all you know they could have just thought he was a really talented lazy SOB that needed a kick in the arse and a dose of reality....Your assumptions are ludicrous....

Second Honeymoon
08-20-2007, 11:32 AM
From what I heard this morning, he was benched and then came back with 3 sacks. John McC also said that one scout said that many of his big sack games were against freshman and back-ups and that Charlie C pretty much wasn't at his predraft workout and called JMac and told him they were brining Mario in...almost as ruse. Take it all with a grain of salt.

and against 'powers' like Duke and Wake Forest. when he played against good teams in college, he would do his usual 'no-show'. I said this when we drafted him but was widely poo-pooed for being negative and having a mancrush on VY....wrong, I was just pissed that we blew our pick on this workout warrior with no heart.

sometimes you are what you are. and Mario is what he is...which is not a very good football player. if he wasn't the #1 overall pick and played like this he wouldn't even make the team.

HOU-TEX
08-20-2007, 11:36 AM
and against 'powers' like Duke and Wake Forest. when he played against good teams in college, he would do his usual 'no-show'. I said this when we drafted him but was widely poo-pooed for being negative and having a mancrush on VY....wrong, I was just pissed that we blew our pick on this workout warrior with no heart.

sometimes you are what you are. and Mario is what he is...which is not a very good football player. if he wasn't the #1 overall pick and played like this he wouldn't even make the team.

Maybe we should try drafting our Dlinemen in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Those rounds seem to be the most productive lately. That is, when we have the picks in those rounds.:texflag:

The1ApplePie
08-20-2007, 11:39 AM
Taking Mario was idiotic.

You are rebuilding a team, and you sign your QB to a new long term deal.

Shouldn't you either give that QB a new weapon (Bush) or a tackle to protect his blind side (D'Brick)?

I'm of the opinion, that unless they are a shutdown CB or a stud MLB, that no defensive player is worth the 1st overall pick. One stud on offense will have more impact than one on defense.

Leahmic223
08-20-2007, 12:15 PM
Taking Mario was idiotic.

You are rebuilding a team, and you sign your QB to a new long term deal.

Shouldn't you either give that QB a new weapon (Bush) or a tackle to protect his blind side (D'Brick)?

I'm of the opinion, that unless they are a shutdown CB or a stud MLB, that no defensive player is worth the 1st overall pick. One stud on offense will have more impact than one on defense.

Man your still pissed we didn't take Bush?

The Running Back that's not actually a Running Back. I wonder what the guy will do when there isn't a actual Running Back there to help him out.
I mean when a a HOF RB is asked "What do you think of Bush? and the first thing he says is "He needs to prove he can be a more effective runner."

As for D'Brick...I went over to a Jets board awhile ago...and when Mario played him I remember one poster saying something like "Lets see if he improves this game." and it seems they have the same view on him...because I believe the Jets fans wanted a QB last year or a more sexy pick.

I don't see why you would say "He's a idiotic pick" in his 2nd year. Usually RBs don't take 3 years to develop, although Bush is the media darling, if he doesn't produce on the ground, he HAS NOT reached his potential.

My Point.

Bush still has a lot to prove and so does Mario, which means I don't know why you always cast these conclusions on Mario but not Bush. Every post about Mario you always have to mention Bush...nearly everytime.

real
08-20-2007, 12:18 PM
Bush still has a lot to prove and so does Mario, which means I don't know why you always cast these conclusions on Mario but not Bush.

Was with you up until this part...

RB has shown he can make spectacular game breaking plays on this level...

Mario hasn't even proven he's up to par with average DE's at his position...

Vinny
08-20-2007, 12:21 PM
I don't see why you would say "He's a idiotic pick" in his 2nd year. Usually RBs don't take 3 years to develop, although Bush is the media darling, if he doesn't produce on the ground, he HAS NOT reached his potential.

he probably said it because many fans never heard of Mario till the combine. He didn't dominate in his Sr year and he wasn't even a finalist for the Lombardy trophy as the top lineman in the Nation. He was a workout wonder who shot up the boards because of his workouts and his bodytype. He wasn't drafted because he had great football instincts. This franchise just has some kind of mental block when it comes to top 5 picks and they choose ideal body types who look good in shorts and have great measurables. Thankfully Andre Johnson worked out...but thankfully he wasn't the first overall pick. They probably would have taken Charles Rogers if the pick was moved up (the cynic in me).

Leahmic223
08-20-2007, 12:25 PM
Was with you up until this part...

RB has shown he can make spectacular game breaking plays on this level...

Mario hasn't even proven he's up to par with average DE's at his position...

And none of those plays were rushing plays.

Mario has made plays, Jets game, Giants game, Dolphins game, and caused the fumble that helped us win the Colts game.

nunusguy
08-20-2007, 12:26 PM
Man your still pissed we didn't take Bush?


I'm not. I'm not even pissed off that we didn't take VY. But I am real pissed off that we took Mario !

real
08-20-2007, 12:26 PM
And none of those plays were rushing plays.

Mario has made plays, Jets game, Giants game, Dolphins game, and caused the fumble that helped us win the Colts game.

What does it matter if they are rushing plays or not ?

A TD is a freakin' TD....

Leahmic223
08-20-2007, 12:27 PM
he probably said it because many fans never heard of Mario till the combine. He didn't dominate in his Sr year and he wasn't even a finalist for the Lombardy trophy as the top lineman in the Nation. He was a workout wonder who shot up the boards because of his workouts and his bodytype. He wasn't drafted because he had great football instincts. This franchise just has some kind of mental block when it comes to top 5 picks and they choose ideal body types who look good in shorts and have great measurables. Thankfully Andre Johnson worked out...but thankfully he wasn't the first overall pick. They probably would have taken Charles Rogers if the pick was moved up (the cynic in me).

You still can't judge a draft pick in his 2nd year. Despite what you think of his college career. Saying it was a idiotic pick is basically saying that it is a fact that he is going to fail.

Leahmic223
08-20-2007, 12:29 PM
What does it matter if they are rushing plays or not ?

A TD is a freakin' TD....

The guy has to prove that he can rush....period.

Otherwise he has not reached his potential.

Also what about the plays Mario has made last season? Are those just a illusion? Is that not the flash? Obviously he has the tools, he just has some growing to do.

Vinny
08-20-2007, 12:31 PM
The guy has to prove that he can rush....period.

Otherwise he has not reached his potential.

Also what about the plays Mario has made last season? Are those just a illusion? Is that not the flash? Obviously he has the tools, he just has some growing to do.
Even Jay Foreman and Matt Stevens made a few plays...Goodness.....how can you start all year and not make any plays? Frankly we expect more than a couple of plays like touching leftwich when he does the splits as a sack.

Tedc
08-20-2007, 12:33 PM
I would film him raising his arms (to get the fans up) and play it on every third down play. That will make him think of his job and own up to it.

Leahmic223
08-20-2007, 12:34 PM
Even Jay Foreman and Matt Stevens made a few plays...we expect more than a couple of plays like touching leftwich when he does the splits as a sack.

I am not talking about his sacks though. I am talking about the Giants game where before the half all he did was dominate their line. I am talking about a game saving tip from the dolphins game, I am talking about almost killing Chad Pennington, I am talking about causing the fumble that helped us win that Colts game.

at least two of those sacks, all he did was touch a guy. But I am talking about the impact plays he made last season.

real
08-20-2007, 12:36 PM
The guy has to prove that he can rush....period.

Otherwise he has not reached his potential.

Also what about the plays Mario has made last season? Are those just a illusion? Is that not the flash? Obviously he has the tools, he just has some growing to do.

1) Thats pretty narrow minded to have to say the guy needs to prove he can rush....If he is a great recieving threat that can also be ligned up in the backfield and get you yards on the ground IMO, that makes him a great asset....P.S. I think Reggie is going to change a lot of peoples perception of him as a runner this year...

2) don't get me confused with everyone else...go back and read my post history...I never said Mario was a bad football player...yes he looks horrilbe at times, but I've never called the guy a bust or said he down right sucks and has no furture....I've even posted videos of good plays he's made...

Vinny
08-20-2007, 12:38 PM
thats a short highlight film. His biggest QB pressuring days came when he got to the still injured Culpepper, made a play vs the still injured Pennington, and Leftwich sacked himself as he did the splits. I don't remember his other "sack".

HuttoKarl
08-20-2007, 12:43 PM
thats a short highlight film. His biggest QB pressuring days came when he got to the still injured Culpepper, made a play vs the still injured Pennington, and Leftwich sacked himself as he did the splits. I don't remember his other "sack".


It was on Vince Young.

Specnatz
08-20-2007, 12:46 PM
thats a short highlight film. His biggest QB pressuring days came when he got to the still injured Culpepper, made a play vs the still injured Pennington, and Leftwich sacked himself as he did the splits. I don't remember his other "sack."


Wow I did not know you were only looking for highlights. I always thought you wanted other things like showing improvements and heart and some pressure no matter if he gets the sack or someone else does because of him.

His other sack was against the giants.

The1ApplePie
08-20-2007, 12:47 PM
I am not talking about his sacks though. I am talking about the Giants game where before the half all he did was dominate their line. I am talking about a game saving tip from the dolphins game, I am talking about almost killing Chad Pennington, I am talking about causing the fumble that helped us win that Colts game.

at least two of those sacks, all he did was touch a guy. But I am talking about the impact plays he made last season.

Name one thing Mario did in the game against the Jets, beside "Almost killing Pennington" (after he got rid of the ball). Oh right, nothing because D'Brick dominated him all game.

The fumble against the Colts was done by Mario completely by accident. He totally wiffed on the RB in the backfield and his hand happened to hit the ball. Its was a Lucky not Good play.

For Bush vs Mario:

Bush's job is to make TDs, Mario's is to make sacks. Bush had twice the TDs that Mario had sacks last year.

Bush is running it up the middle just fine in the preseason, he has also scored. What has Mario done this preseason?

Vinny
08-20-2007, 12:47 PM
It was on Vince Young.oh yeah thanks....I remember now. Mario couldn't beat his block and got no penetration...VY was starting to scramble from the pressure from the other linemen...and he ran right towards Mario. Nice moment...I'll cherish it for a now. :)

Vinny
08-20-2007, 12:48 PM
Wow I did not know you were only looking for highlights. I always thought you wanted other things like showing improvements and heart and some pressure no matter if he gets the sack or someone else does because of him.

His other sack was against the giants.
don't put words in my mouth...where did I type that I only wanted highlights from Mario? dude said that Mario had some highlights and I said it would be a short film...and it would be.

The1ApplePie
08-20-2007, 12:49 PM
It was on Vince Young.

For a half yard loss.

VY got him back next game when he made Mario tackle himself in the open field.

Leahmic223
08-20-2007, 12:50 PM
1) Thats pretty narrow minded to have to say the guy needs to prove he can rush....If he is a great recieving threat that can also be ligned up in the backfield and get you yards on the ground IMO, that makes him a great asset....P.S. I think Reggie is going to change a lot of peoples perception of him as a runner this year...

He has to prove he can rush to me because he was drafted as a guy that can rush out of the backfield as well as return and receive. He wasn't drafted as just a returner or receiver (Maybe Payton did draft him for just those reasons) but had any other team drafted him...say us. He would have to be a 1,000 yd rusher at least, not those 500 or so yard he rushed last season. He won't be bust if all he can do is receive and return, but he wouldn't reach his full potential.

2) don't get me confused with everyone else...go back and read my post history...I never said Mario was a bad football player...yes he looks horrilbe at times, but I've never called the guy a bust or said he down right sucks and has no furture....I've even posted videos of good plays he's made.

I am sorry then. I just think those that are labeling him as bust right now kinda want him to fail just so they can say "I told you so."

I am usually just patient, I am willing to wait and let these guys grow. None of us know the pressure of getting paid millions and basically having the whole franchise say "We need you to be the guy that makes us a winning football team." for the first few years...it is just too much pressure on those guys. HOPEFULLY (I say this because Apple thinks I blindly defend Mario) he can get past the pressure and just focus on dominating. I have never said

"Mario was GREAT last night man what a player!" or given him any major compliments. All I say is he had a pretty average year when it comes to rookie DEs (in general, don't bring up Freeney and Peppers Apple.) and hopefully he can improve upon that this year.

With that said, I don't see how he could move backwards from here on out. He can either stay the same or get better. I am just wishing for the latter and I tend to ignore preseason for many reasons. If he's doing what he does in preseason for full games come Sep-Jan then i'll be a bit more worried and just cross my fingers for his 3rd try to be a charm.

Leahmic223
08-20-2007, 12:53 PM
Name one thing Mario did in the game against the Jets, beside "Almost killing Pennington" (after he got rid of the ball). Oh right, nothing because D'Brick dominated him all game.

The fumble against the Colts was done by Mario completely by accident. He totally wiffed on the RB in the backfield and his hand happened to hit the ball. Its was a Lucky not Good play.

For Bush vs Mario:

Bush's job is to make TDs, Mario's is to make sacks. Bush had twice the TDs that Mario had sacks last year.

Bush is running it up the middle just fine in the preseason, he has also scored. What has Mario done this preseason?

Wait...Mario's job is to get sacks...I thought it was to pressure the QB? You are obviously a stat nerd because that is all you've judged him by.

You always bring up his sack numbers...almost always bring them up.

Not only that, here you go with comparing a RB to a DE...congratulations on a RB having twice the TDs than Mario has sacks...

Also Stop saying it was a ACCIDENT...what the hell.... what is that. He caused the fumble case closed.
Usually getting the fumble is a case of 'right place right time' but the guy that gets it gets congratulations...

Errant Hothy
08-20-2007, 01:04 PM
Exactly.

I am expecting to hear a lot of the debates about Carr being rehashed as Mario stuff.

(coaching carousel, young group he is working with, no talented veteran leadership, how can you evaluate fire and heart blah blah blah. He also has the black cloud of the 2006 draft hanging over his head so his good will with the fan base is very limited and the burden of living up to a fat contract that often fans and teammates resent).

That being said, I think you can overlearn mistakes of the past. Carr is Carr, and Mario is Mario. All players have pluses and minuses. I would like to see more. I'd also like to see more from the defense as a whole. (Richard Smith is going to get a pass from John McClain until and unless it gets impossible not to critique him--McClain likes him a lot).

I don't think he'll ever be able to move out from under that "black cloud". He could rack up 15-20 sacks a year for a decade and it still wouldn;t be enough for some memebers of the fan base.

The1ApplePie
08-20-2007, 01:05 PM
Wait...Mario's job is to get sacks...I thought it was to pressure the QB? You are obviously a stat nerd because that is all you've judged him by.

You always bring up his sack numbers...almost always bring them up.

Not only that, here you go with comparing a RB to a DE...congratulations on a RB having twice the TDs than Mario has sacks...

Also Stop saying it was a ACCIDENT...what the hell.... what is that. He caused the fumble case closed.
Usually getting the fumble is a case of 'right place right time' but the guy that gets it gets congratulations...

You don't take a guy first overall to just get preasure. He's got to put up 10 sacks plus a year.

I can compare an RB to a DE. Bush is more important to his team, and is the better player, simple as that. Stat wise and intangibles, he is key. Even in leadership, he far exceeds Mario.

Giving Mario credit for that forced fumble is like giving a guy credit for an RBI by getting beaned by the pitcher.

axman40
08-20-2007, 01:08 PM
Right now to date I would have to compare Mario to
http://images.starpulse.com/Photos/th/Gregory%20Hines-1.JPGGregory Hines as I see a lot of dancing with the O line! I am still hopeful , Mario will start showing some kind of burst against the Cowboys !
:texflag:

Errant Hothy
08-20-2007, 01:15 PM
sometimes you are what you are. and Mario is what he is...which is not a very good football player. if he wasn't the #1 overall pick and played like this he wouldn't even make the team.

So do you think that if we were to cut him that nobody else would sign him?

Leahmic223
08-20-2007, 01:18 PM
You don't take a guy first overall to just get preasure. He's got to put up 10 sacks plus a year.

I can compare an RB to a DE. Bush is more important to his team, and is the better player, simple as that. Stat wise and intangibles, he is key. Even in leadership, he far exceeds Mario.

Giving Mario credit for that forced fumble is like giving a guy credit for an RBI by getting beaned by the pitcher.

Actually you do take a guy just to get pressure...If he gets a sack because of that pressure than thats a plus...but you can't get a sack without getting pressure first. A QB under pressure usually means bad things for the offense, INTs, fumbles, and if hit too many times...injuries.

You can't compare a RB to a DE, please stop trying to do this. When you want to compare Mario to other DEs in his class and maybe even DTs than come back. But I am not going to sit here and compare a RB to a DE. I'd rather debate whether Bush would be a better DE than Mario Williams...
We all know ho important YOU think a RB is. You've even said that a RB is far more important than a DE...which I disagree with but that is your opinion. Reggie White, game changer. Walter Payton Game Changer. But I am not going to sit here and Compare Reggie White to Payton.
We compare White and Strahan...but not White and Payton.

Mario got gredit for that fumble...get over it. Also, Jets fans would disagree that he handled Mario, as I remember from the forums they though Mario had the advantage...but since Bush is your son or something than of course your not going to see it that way.

You ignore Bush's negatives and praise his positives to no end. He still has a lot to improve on and a lot of people feel his hype was just hype. I think Bush is going to be a great RB, I really do. But I am not going to sit here and act like he's the second coming.


I don't think he'll ever be able to move out from under that "black cloud". He could rack up 15-20 sacks a year for a decade and it still wouldn;t be enough for some memebers of the fan base.

Exactly, one of the ESPN analyst (I think Jackson) couldn't have said it any better "No matter what he does, Bush and Young will always outshine him because of the position they play."

The players on the line aren't appreciated too much, but I think many of us know and feel that the battle is won and lost in the trenches.

real
08-20-2007, 01:19 PM
Actually you do take a guy just to get pressure...If he gets a sack because of that pressure than thats a plus...

Wow...

What low expectations you have....

Errant Hothy
08-20-2007, 01:23 PM
I bet that they wouldn't pay him $50 mil.
But I'm sure the Raiders would sign him.

That's just dillusional, after teh draft one of the draft guru's ( sorryu can't for teh life of me remember which one) said as many as 6 teams had Mario at the top of their boards.

Factor that into what happened last year I'd be more likely to believe that there would be teams willing to sign him over that there are none willing to pass on him. Also his current contraact would have nothing to do with it if he were cut, and teh way some people are talking it makes it sound like that he wouldn't even get signed for a minimum offer.

Leahmic223
08-20-2007, 01:23 PM
Wow...

What low expectations you have....

Wait didn't you say in another thread "The stats don't even matter."

So now you are all about sack numbers now?

Leahmic223
08-20-2007, 01:27 PM
That's the problem with looking at stats....It leads you to believe Mario and Julius Peppers are on the same level...LOL @ Stats...


Trust your eyes...Mario gets no pressure...He uses no moves...No burst...He doesn't look much different from last year guys....Maybe a bit slimmer, but as far as the playing goes he's still struggling...


So now it is all about Sacks when in this thread it was about getting pressure?

real
08-20-2007, 01:27 PM
Wait didn't you say in another thread "The stats don't even matter."

So now you are all about sack numbers now?

The numbers themselves are useless when judging how good a player is compared to another player...

But you don't take a guy # 1 overall merely to "get pressure"...That's just silly....

Mario is not a good pass rusher...That's plain and painfully obvious to see...

He could get away with his style of play at the other DE position, but if they leave Mario at weakside DE it won't be too long before people really consider him a bust...

Leahmic223
08-20-2007, 01:32 PM
The numbers themselves are useless when judging how good a player is compared to another player...

But you don't take a guy # 1 overall merely to "get pressure"...That's just silly....

Mario is not a good pass rusher...That's plain and painfully obvious to see...

He could get away with his style of play at the other DE position, but if the leave Mario at weakside DE it won't be too long before people really consider him a bust...

I see what your saying, but Pressure leads to sacks, and Mario was drafted as a pass rusher if I remember correctly. Elite pass rushers are very valuable.

If a guy can get pressure 2 out of 5 plays, then why not take him? That's two plays the offense has to execute extremely well. As for run stopping, I think we have a good enough LB core to stop the the run...

Man to tell you the truth I am getting sick of talking about Mario. It seems like our other first round pick has been just ignored the last two weeks, I can't wait to see how he does his first game.

2BCF
08-20-2007, 01:34 PM
I'd petition the league for a rule change where Patty-Cakes winners are allowed access to the QB, Mario would have them all beat-down.

threetoedpete
08-20-2007, 01:59 PM
I am extremely disappointed that Mario requires outside motivation at all. It is not consistent with everything I've ever read about the great ones in sports who motivate themselves from within. It's called heart, and obviously some have it more than others.

I don't think it has anything to do with motivation or heart. He is a great big 'ol kid, with a freaky athletic body, who's crushed everyone befor just with shear overwhelming raw power. Well now, that's no longer good enough. All you have to do is watch his third step on the passing plays and see that he is still lost. I gotta believe that Franklin is telling him what to do. I gotta believe that he knows what he should do on the third step after a season. But what ever the switch is inside his brain, it isn't being flipping "on" yet. Dip your shoulders, butt and hips get under the shoulder pads, make a swim or rip move on the third step, show the fans what the innards of the quarterback look like. That's it. It's psychological though not physical. Whole lotta people are going to have eggs on their faces when the monster becomes self aware. This monster is taking a little longer than some is all. I wish he'd hurry up and flip the switch on also. But it is what it is. They ain't going to cut him. Can't kill him. Just gotta let it play out. May be the best motivation would be give him a book to read. If the numbers say he's big enough, strong enough, fast enough, the only thing left is: is he smart enough ? They don't make a pill for that. If he's that stupid, beating him over the head isn't going to solve or help anything.

Vinny
08-20-2007, 02:07 PM
I don't think it has anything to do with motivation or heart. He is a great big 'ol kid, with a freaky athletic body, who's crushed everyone befor just with shear overwhelming raw power. Well now, that's no longer good enough. All you have to do is watch his third step on the passing plays and see that he is still lost. I gotta believe that Franklin is telling him what to do. I gotta believe that he knows what he should do on the third step after a season. But what ever the switch is inside his brain, it isn't being flipping "on" yet. Dip your shoulders, butt and hips get under the shoulder pads, make a swim or rip move on the third step, show the fans what the innards of the quarterback look like. That's it. It's psychological though not physical. Whole lotta people are going to have eggs on their faces when the monster becomes self aware. This monster is taking a little longer than some is all. I wish he'd hurry up and flip the switch on also. But it is what it is. They ain't going to cut him. Can't kill him. Just gotta let it play out. May be the best motivation would be give him a book to read. If the numbers say he's big enough, strong enough, fast enough, the only thing left is: is he smart enough ? They don't make a pill for that. If he's that stupid, beating him over the head isn't going to solve or help anything.
he was benched in College due to his lackluster attitude at one time...I wonder if the Texans were ever worried about this?

threetoedpete
08-20-2007, 02:23 PM
he was benched in College due to his lackluster attitude at one time...I wonder if the Texans were ever worried about this?

Yeah well Vinny if the scouts fell in love with the numbers I did too. Soon as I saw the guy last summer I swallowed the bait hook line and sinker. But one thing I believe is they were never ever , going to take Vincent or RB. I gotta believe a lot of this is residule sour grapes from the '06 draft. Everyone wants to stand up now and say see ITYS...that's fine but it doesn't help anything. They couldn't get a move down and they did the best that they could under the circumstances. They picked the best defensive player on the board. Now if he's Leo lionni's Ferdinand, the bull, the bull smelling the flowers or Danile Keys' Flowers for Algernon , I don't know. But the only option they have at this point is to work with the guy to turn the potential into sacks and destruction. I think it's still to early to throw the guy under the buss. He's still a better option at this point than David Pollack wouldn't you agree ? He ain't dead yet.

Specnatz
08-20-2007, 02:35 PM
I'm going to keep this short and sweet. Actually, I'm going to steal Anna-Megan's idea of asking you guys a question: Other than literally lighting a fire under him, if you were the Texans coaches, what would you do to motivate Mario Williams?


Is there a way we can motivate John McClain in writing an article that is worth a crap? I mean he needs just as much motivation because he writes some of the dumbiest stuff out there. Talk about someone who needs motivation.

:wild:

Double Barrel
08-20-2007, 03:44 PM
It's psychological though not physical.

"Motivation" is all mental, too.

So we are in basic agreement that he's go the physical skills, and it's all in his head.

Then it's knowledge he requires. So he needs incentive to learn the position, to learn how to counter offensive linemen's techniques, to learn how to be mean about refusing to be manhandled. This is where 'motivation' comes in, because to be the best, he has to think like the best.

Am I questioning Mario's "heart"? Not at this point. I'll give him another full season, but there had better be some fire in his play, and you and I both know what this is about. Beyond stats, he has to be an impact on the field. That's what I'm talking about at the end of the day.

I gotta believe a lot of this is residule sour grapes from the '06 draft.

For the record, I was a D'brick or AJ Hawk guy. No sour grapes on my part, either. Mario is our boy, but that does not put him above our concerns.

real
08-20-2007, 03:52 PM
I don't think Mario has ''all' the physical skills...

He's not quick nor explosive off the ball and that is another factor in his non-effectiveness

JohnsonFan
08-20-2007, 03:53 PM
he so big

Honoring Earl 34
08-20-2007, 03:58 PM
"Motivation" is all mental, too.

So we are in basic agreement that he's go the physical skills, and it's all in his head.

Then it's knowledge he requires. So he needs incentive to learn the position, to learn how to counter offensive linemen's techniques, to learn how to be mean about refusing to be manhandled. This is where 'motivation' comes in, because to be the best, he has to think like the best.

Am I questioning Mario's "heart"? Not at this point. I'll give him another full season, but there had better be some fire in his play, and you and I both know what this is about. Beyond stats, he has to be an impact on the field. That's what I'm talking about at the end of the day.



For the record, I was a D'brick or AJ Hawk guy. No sour grapes on my part, either. Mario is our boy, but that does not put him above our concerns.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQVr6f6FL5Y

threetoedpete
08-20-2007, 04:04 PM
"Motivation" is all mental, too.

So we are in basic agreement that he's go the physical skills, and it's all in his head.

Then it's knowledge he requires. So he needs incentive to learn the position, to learn how to counter offensive linemen's techniques, to learn how to be mean about refusing to be manhandled. This is where 'motivation' comes in, because to be the best, he has to think like the best.

Am I questioning Mario's "heart"? Not at this point. I'll give him another full season, but there had better be some fire in his play, and you and I both know what this is about. Beyond stats, he has to be an impact on the field. That's what I'm talking about at the end of the day.



For the record, I was a D'brick or AJ Hawk guy. No sour grapes on my part, either. Mario is our boy, but that does not put him above our concerns.


Well as I posted befor, if he's being shown what to do...and knows what to do and he still can't make his feet do it on the third step....I dunno what to tell you. If his pads are too high and he doesn't have the position...I don't care if you're godzilla, or what kinda fire he has, you're not going to get around most NLF OLTs. If they got the angle on you. They'll chicken fight with you all day. Now I understand the frustration. Beers at the staduim going up another quarter just on the weight of the 54 million. The guy should be working on his thrid and forth moves by now and we're still stuck on dipping the hips and making a move on the third step. If he's doggin it like Vinny is sayin' , he's got me fooled. He's hustling every play from what I see. He just isn't getting there. I just think he's a Dexter Mannly looking for a little direction. What the coaches have to do to get that passion out of him I dunno. Can't force him into the film room. Can't make him ask for extra reps befor and after practice. I'm gonna look at this as a glass half full waiting for some coach to fill it. If he is DC II, God help us. The numbers say it's in there.

real
08-20-2007, 04:07 PM
Well as I posted befor, if he's being shown what to do...and knows what to do and he still can't make his feet do it on the third step....I dunno what to tell you. If his pads are too high and he doesn't have the position...I don't care if you're godzilla, or what kinda fire he has, you're not going to get around most NLF OLTs. If they got the angle on you. They'll chicken fight with you all day. Now I understand the frustration. Beers at the staduim going up another quarter just on the weight of the 54 million. The guy should be working on his thrid and forth moves by now and we're still stuck on dipping the hips and making a move on the third step. If he's doggin it like Vinny is sayin' , he's got me fooled. He's hustling every play from what I see. He just isn't getting there. I just think he's a Dexter Mannly looking for a little direction. What the coaches have to do to get that passion out of him I dunno. Can't force him into the film room. Can't make him ask for extra reps befor and after practice. I'm gonna look at this as a glass half full waiting for some coach to fill it. If he is DC II, God help us. The numbers say it's in there.



The moon must have aligned with the stars and planets again, because I agree 100%.

TK_Gamer
08-20-2007, 04:07 PM
I don't think Mario has ''all' the physical skills...

He's not quick nor explosive off the ball and that is another factor in his non-effectiveness

I tend to think "explosive off the ball" is a mental thing too. It's part of confidence and attitude. but we could go on and on with this argument and like others have already noted, some people will never be happy with Mario. I'm happy with him though. I know he will get there. If anyone was paying attention in camp, he has learned 2 or 3 pass rush moves already. But he never needed them before so now he will work on implementing them until he does it reflexively, then he will gain confidence , and finally you will have your "explosiveness" Maybe there is a reason we havent seen any of these moves in preseason.

real
08-20-2007, 04:14 PM
I tend to think "explosive off the ball" is a mental thing too. It's part of confidence and attitude. but we could go on and on with this argument and like others have already noted, some people will never be happy with Mario. I'm happy with him though. I know he will get there. If anyone was paying attention in camp, he has learned 2 or 3 pass rush moves already. But he never needed them before so now he will work on implementing them until he does it reflexively, then he will gain confidence , and finally you will have your "explosiveness" Maybe there is a reason we havent seen any of these moves in preseason.

I agree with you that explosiveness is part Mental in regards to how bad you want to put the QB on his arse and how much energy you are expending trying to get there...

But Mario isn't a high energy player...that's something that's not hard to see...

I don't think he will ever be quicker off the ball though, unless that's something he specifically works on in the off-season...I don't think tenacity has anything to do with his quickness in this regard...He's just not that kind of DE....

But I understand fans wanting to rationalize it by saying it's 'all' or 'mostly' mental...It kinda gives you hope that one day he will 'get it'....

Honoring Earl 34
08-20-2007, 04:41 PM
I agree with you that explosiveness is part Mental in regards to how bad you want to put the QB on his arse and how much energy you are expending trying to get there...

But Mario isn't a high energy player...that's something that's not hard to see...

I don't think he will ever be quicker off the ball though, unless that's something he specifically works on in the off-season...I don't think tenacity has anything to do with his quickness in this regard...He's just not that kind of DE....

But I understand fans wanting to rationalize it by saying it's 'all' or 'mostly' mental...It kinda gives you hope that one day he will 'get it'....

I wonder how many times a year do great pass rushers get called for off sides ? I think Mario is a count slow on every snap and would like to see him trying to anticipate the snap count in preseason . If he gets called for offsides ... oh well .

axman40
08-20-2007, 06:02 PM
Just want to add ,DeMeco Ryans reminds me of this guy!
http://www.thrillingdetective.com/images/shaft.JPGJOHN SHAFT !

He is a mean mother..
Shut your mouth!
I am talking about DeMeco
Then we can dig it!

I do expect Mario to have 7-10 sacks this year if healthy.
:texflag:

2BCF
08-21-2007, 07:44 PM
he was benched in College due to his lackluster attitude at one time...I wonder if the Texans were ever worried about this?

Ouch. That's not good news.

Errant Hothy
08-21-2007, 07:51 PM
Ouch. That's not good news.

It's not new news, either.

The Pencil Neck
08-21-2007, 08:13 PM
Ouch. That's not good news.

Did he really get benched? Texans Chick has always said "no."

I've heard 2 stories:

1. He broke a team rule and was not allowed to start a game. (This is what Texans Chick says.)
2. The entire first string defense, including Mannie Lawson and John McCargo, was benched because of lackluster performance.

Vinny
08-22-2007, 12:21 AM
Did he really get benched? Texans Chick has always said "no."

I've heard 2 stories:

1. He broke a team rule and was not allowed to start a game. (This is what Texans Chick says.)
2. The entire first string defense, including Mannie Lawson and John McCargo, was benched because of lackluster performance.
If she said that she is probably correct...I was talking off a funky memory. I'm gonna try not to say much about Mario till the Cowboy game...I'm giving myself a headache.

Wolf
08-22-2007, 08:11 AM
Many of you have written and called to tell us you're sick and tired of hearing about the quarterback and running back who were passed up to select Williams, so we won't even use their names.

Now, let's point out that the preseason has two games left, including Saturday's game against the Dallas Cowboys at Reliant Stadium.

Williams will play about 2 quarters against Dallas. That's more than enough time for him to at least flash some of that God-given athleticism that captivated the Texans so much that they took him over the quarterback and running back, both of whom will be playing at Reliant Stadium this season.

Whether it's the preseason or regular season, playing against the Cowboys should motivate a corpse. And please, no cruel jokes here.

For now, we'll give Williams the benefit of the doubt because it's still preseason. But once the regular season begins and the Chiefs come to town, we don't want to be forced to quote the late Joel Buchsbaum "looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane."


http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/5073833.html

Marcus
08-22-2007, 08:36 AM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/5073833.html

So, does anyone think motivation, or the lack of, still has anything to do with this?