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View Full Version : Our FB's there is a controversy here


JohnsonFan
08-19-2007, 01:00 AM
Well some of you may not have looked into this yet so i wanted to lay it all out for you.
Ok

So we have new updated depth chart today and our full backs are listed as: Leach,Abbate,Cook and Pass.

Well the first thing that stood out at me was that Pass was last on the list, Patrick is the only one of our FB's that has a good track record. He has 526 yards rushing with a 4.1 yards average. He also had 570 yards receiving and 8.6 yards per catch average. Wow thats really good for a full back but with a downside he is coming off of career full of injury.

Then comes Jameel Cook who i personally think is the most talented FB we have. He had receptions for 446 yards and three touchdowns, he also had 19 rushing yards. He is not that good of a rusher but a great receiving fb and a really good blocker.

Then Jon Abbate, lol well not much to say here but he is a rook and i think a vet like cook or pass deserves to be higher than him on the chart.

And to our Starter as of now Vonta Leach....um he has 0...the big 0 in all stat categories for offense besides reciving he has 61 yards 1 td, no rush yards though.. Now he is a great blocker and improved our run game...oh wait was it leach or was it also in december when dayne came along... just not sure he has shown his true potential.

Final Thoughts, Well we have a Rookie, a Vet but injury prone, a great lead blocker with no yards, and a great lead blocker who is also a great receiver with yards. Well i say Cook should start he has the best set of skills out of all of our Fb's IMO.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
08-19-2007, 01:03 AM
And you would be wrong. Leach is by far our best fullback. Not an opinion, just a fact.

vtech9
08-19-2007, 01:06 AM
Well some of you may not have looked into this yet so i wanted to lay it all out for you.
Ok

So we have new updated depth chart today and our full backs are listed as: Leach,Abbate,Cook and Pass.

Well the first thing that stood out at me was that Pass was last on the list, Patrick is the only one of our FB's that has a good track record. He has 526 yards rushing with a 4.1 yards average. He also had 570 yards receiving and 8.6 yards per catch average. Wow thats really good for a full back but with a downside he is coming off of career full of injury.

Then comes Jameel Cook who i personally think is the most talented FB we have. He had receptions for 446 yards and three touchdowns, he also had 19 rushing yards. He is not that good of a rusher but a great receiving fb and a really good blocker.

Then Jon Abbate, lol well not much to say here but he is a rook and i think a vet like cook or pass deserves to be higher than him on the chart.

And to our Starter as of now Vonta Leach....um he has 0...the big 0 in all stat categories for offense, no rush yards or receiving.. Now he is a great blocker and improved our run game...oh wait was it leach or was it also in december when dayne came along...

Final Thoughts, Well we have a Rookie, a Vet but injury prone, a great lead blocker with no yards, and a great lead blocker who is also a great receiver with yards. Well i say Cook should start he has the best set of skills out of all of our Fb's IMO.

You aren't going to get many people to agree with you when you say that Cook is our best FB. As a matter of fact, there are a lot of fans here that think Cook should be cut. Some believe that Cook cost us a couple games before he got hurt last year. Personally, I don't think Cook makes the team.

real
08-19-2007, 01:10 AM
Well some of you may not have looked into this yet so i wanted to lay it all out for you.
Ok

So we have new updated depth chart today and our full backs are listed as: Leach,Abbate,Cook and Pass.

Well the first thing that stood out at me was that Pass was last on the list, Patrick is the only one of our FB's that has a good track record. He has 526 yards rushing with a 4.1 yards average. He also had 570 yards receiving and 8.6 yards per catch average. Wow thats really good for a full back but with a downside he is coming off of career full of injury.

Then comes Jameel Cook who i personally think is the most talented FB we have. He had receptions for 446 yards and three touchdowns, he also had 19 rushing yards. He is not that good of a rusher but a great receiving fb and a really good blocker.

Then Jon Abbate, lol well not much to say here but he is a rook and i think a vet like cook or pass deserves to be higher than him on the chart.

And to our Starter as of now Vonta Leach....um he has 0...the big 0 in all stat categories for offense, no rush yards or receiving.. Now he is a great blocker and improved our run game...oh wait was it leach or was it also in december when dayne came along...

Final Thoughts, Well we have a Rookie, a Vet but injury prone, a great lead blocker with no yards, and a great lead blocker who is also a great receiver with yards. Well i say Cook should start he has the best set of skills out of all of our Fb's IMO.

Cook ? A good reciever ? The best full back ?


:texflag:

JohnsonFan
08-19-2007, 01:12 AM
its just my opinion and also well i think leach is great but i mean can he catch can he run? i am just not sure, if i knew he could i would say he was best because of his blocking ability.

real
08-19-2007, 01:15 AM
its just my opinion and also well i think leach is great but i mean can he catch can he run? i am just not sure, if i knew he could i would say he was best because of his blocking ability.

Yes he has shown the ability to catch put of the backfield.

Serious question:

Is this your first year watching the Texans ?

JohnsonFan
08-19-2007, 01:17 AM
Serious answer:

no i have watched the texans since 2002 in the middle of the season when i moved here.

why do u ask?

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
08-19-2007, 01:21 AM
Because anyone that watched the Texans last season would never say Cook is a better fullback than Leach.

JohnsonFan
08-19-2007, 01:21 AM
not sure how will do receiving or rushing besides blocking, i mean i saw him last season but just reevaluation, its preseason thats what its meant to make u do, and please dont question how much i know and understand about my texans who i have watched for as long or longer than most of you, i love them as much as all of you just have different opinions.

kiwitexansfan
08-19-2007, 01:22 AM
Cook is probably one of the top two most hated Texans.

It would be tight between him and Stanley.

Cook lost us several games last year.

He can catch the ball but he isn't a patch on Leach as a blocker and doesn't have the fire that Abbate has, and he doesn't have the versatility that Pass has.....

That makes him our 4th best FB in my book.

And hopefully a cut victim.

Texansfan36
08-19-2007, 01:24 AM
Leach was a really big part of that win against Indy last year. He caught a TD pass in the I think it was the 2nd quarter to give us a 21-14 lead.

JohnsonFan
08-19-2007, 01:34 AM
yea i just rememberd that and i fixed my begining statement, its not that i like cook best i just dont know leach can run but i guess we dont really need that he can catch ok and block really good. Oh btw random but why isnt leach in madden 08?

JohnsonFan
08-19-2007, 01:37 AM
but also besides leach i think pass should be numba 2 for sure, he has had a great career just got injured thats all. He did great in NE, i have been watching him since he came into the nfl and have always liked him alot when i heard we got him i got really pumped!

ObsiWan
08-19-2007, 01:54 AM
Leach was a really big part of that win against Indy last year. He caught a TD pass in the I think it was the 2nd quarter to give us a 21-14 lead.

That's correct.

Our FBs primarily block and catch the occasional swing pass out of the backfield. Leach is the nastiest blocker of the bunch and runs with the same nastiness once he catches the ball.

1. Leach
2. Pass - nicked up
3. Abbate - nicked up (hamstring and ankle) will likely go to practice squad
4. Cook - trade bait; he stays only if Pass doesn't recover

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
08-19-2007, 01:54 AM
If you were really a Texans fan last season like you claim, you wouldn't even have to look at their career stats to know Leach is far and away better than Cook or any other fullback on the roster.

JohnsonFan
08-19-2007, 01:57 AM
are u sayign i am not a real texans fan?

Allstar
08-19-2007, 01:58 AM
If you were really a Texans fan last season like you claim, you wouldn't even have to look at their career stats to know Leach is far and away better than Cook or any other fullback on the roster.

I agree 100%.

JohnsonFan
08-19-2007, 01:59 AM
That's correct.

Our FBs primarily block and catch the occasional swing pass out of the backfield. Leach is the nastiest blocker of the bunch and runs with the same nastiness once he catches the ball.

1. Leach
2. Pass - nicked up
3. Abbate - nicked up (hamstring and ankle) will likely go to practice squad
4. Cook - trade bait; he stays only if Pass doesn't recover
i did not hear anything happend to pass? what happend?

JohnsonFan
08-19-2007, 02:04 AM
Are U Guys Saying I Am Not A Texan Fan? Wow I Definitly Am Why Would I Be On This Board? And I Dont Apprecaite You Guys Not Taking My Opinions Seriously.

Vinny
08-19-2007, 02:14 AM
Are U Guys Saying I Am Not A Texan Fan? Wow I Definitly Am Why Would I Be On This Board? And I Dont Apprecaite You Guys Not Taking My Opinions Seriously. I think you really made people wonder if you really watched the games last year when you said Cook was the better fullback...that is not something most anyone would have stated if they watched the games.

ObsiWan
08-19-2007, 02:15 AM
i did not hear anything happend to pass? what happend?

I checked out the postgame over at HT.com. Kubiak said Abbate injured his ankle and it was being x-rayed.

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=3510


Kubiak spoke about the team's injuries after the game in his press conference.

"N.D. Kaluhttp://assets.houstontexans.com/images/relatedicon.gif (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=3510#)’s got a hip pointer, so that’s probably a day-to-day thing as we go to our next week," Kubiak said. "Fred Weary basically sprained the same ankle that he sprained earlier in camp. We don’t think it’s anything serious and we would expect him to be back this week. Patrick Passhttp://assets.houstontexans.com/images/relatedicon.gif (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=3510#) (has) a hamstring, he’ll be day-to-day. Chris Whitehttp://assets.houstontexans.com/images/relatedicon.gif (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=3510#) sprained his ankle, we do not think it’s serious. We expect him back. The most serious looks like Jon Abbate. They’re X-raying his ankle right now. We’re not sure, but it looks like the most serious of the injuries."

Allstar
08-19-2007, 02:21 AM
not sure how will do receiving or rushing besides blocking, i mean i saw him last season but just reevaluation, its preseason thats what its meant to make u do, and please dont question how much i know and understand about my texans who i have watched for as long or longer than most of you, i love them as much as all of you just have different opinions.

You claim to know as much as anyone else about the texans, but in a different thread the other day you seemed to know nothing of Andre davis or our other wr's:

ok so i know we have this guy andre davis, but like i havent heard anything about him, i know he is good better than jacoby jones and kevin walter, but who is this guy? and what will out Wideout depth chart be? 1.Andre Johnson, 2. Keenan Mcardell, 3. Andre DAvis, 4. Kevin walter??? i dont know help please!!

Also, you seemed to think Lundy is better than dayne....
Reggie Bush with 8 started games had 565 yards 6 tds so if he started 16 he would have had around 1200 yards and 12 td's, wow wali is up there with reggie, Lundy had more 20+ yard runs than one Reggie Bush. (4-0), wow crazy huh? no not really we just have to give this guy a chance, lets not let go off him cause it could end up like drew brees bad in SD amazing in NO so lets not risk that.

wali is very talented the texans organization for some reason is not going to utilize him this year or atleast that how it looks. I personally think wali is more talented than ron dayne

...And then you say Dayne should be starting???
ok so i was just thinking about ron dayne, he plays like he is alot younger than green though he is not, proved him self to us last season, we know he can play, why dont we start him and play ahman as 3rd down back?

I'm not trying to call you out, it just seems that you tend to flip-flop a little bit. I respect your passion for the Texans, but maybe you could be a little more consistent with your opinions??

GOOD NIGHT!!

PapaL
08-19-2007, 05:23 AM
I really need to stop reading these threads. I sense me developing some sort of disorder or getting banned after all these years.

Blocking FBs dont aquire stats. There is no catagory for blocks made or blocks missed. There is a catagory for fumbles; and Cook has that one filled out very well.

thunderkyss
08-19-2007, 07:17 AM
You claim to know as much as anyone else about the texans, but in a different thread the other day you seemed to know nothing of Andre davis or our other wr's:



Also, you seemed to think Lundy is better than dayne....


Wali is much more talented & athletic than Dayne. But Dayne is a better rusher.

...And then you say Dayne should be starting???

I like the idea of starting Dayne... haven't seen Ahman run this year, but I've been a Dayne fan since he showed up in shape in Denver. Meaning it got through his thick skull, that nothing is guaranteed, and you have to work to stay in this league.


I'm not trying to call you out, it just seems that you tend to flip-flop a little bit. I respect your passion for the Texans, but maybe you could be a little more consistent with your opinions??

GOOD NIGHT!!

I'll agree with dude, that Cook is a better fullback on paper. But it depends on what you want your fullback to do.

In a Denver system, where no one knows the full backs name... he chips, and releases.

In TampaBay, you want your fullback to resemble a mack truck.

Our OLine was not opening holes, and required more than a chip from the fullback in '06..... I don't believe that was Kubiak's design.

We needed a Mack truck, and Cook is more like a Tacoma, still a nice truck, but he's not Leach, who is a lot like Alstott.

Once our OL "master" Zone-Blocking, Cook will be better suited to our offense. He's much more athletic, has quicker burst, and is a better receiver than Leech.

I've yet to see the first team play in the preseason(I've been working quite a bit lately), so I don't know how much of a hybrid system Kubiak/Sherman are putting together... If we are actually building on what did work last year, then Cook's days are numbered.

Thorn
08-19-2007, 07:54 AM
Are U Guys Saying I Am Not A Texan Fan? Wow I Definitly Am Why Would I Be On This Board? And I Dont Apprecaite You Guys Not Taking My Opinions Seriously.

Don't sweat it. I've taken some flak for my Schaub bashing. Just keep posting, you'll do fine. All it takes to be a Texans fan, is, well, be a Texans fan.

Silver Oak
08-19-2007, 08:02 AM
As much as the sentimental part of me wants Abbate to make the team, I am a bit surprised to see him listed as the number 2 after just 3 weeks of playing FB for the Texans. Seeing him yesterday though I got a good look of just how thick of a guy he is so maybe he's just a naturally good blocker.

I know I've read that Coach has been pleased with Pass' play in camp, so maybe he has been even more pleased with Abbate's?

rmartin65
08-19-2007, 08:06 AM
As much as the sentimental part of me wants Abbate to make the team, I am a bit surprised to see him listed as the number 2 after just 3 weeks of playing FB for the Texans. Seeing him yesterday though I got a good look of just how thick of a guy he is so maybe he's just a naturally good blocker.

I know I've read that Coach has been pleased with Pass' play in camp, so maybe he has been even more pleased with Abbate's?

I feel the same way. I dont know whats going on.

Texans_Chick
08-19-2007, 08:14 AM
As much as the sentimental part of me wants Abbate to make the team, I am a bit surprised to see him listed as the number 2 after just 3 weeks of playing FB for the Texans. Seeing him yesterday though I got a good look of just how thick of a guy he is so maybe he's just a naturally good blocker.

I know I've read that Coach has been pleased with Pass' play in camp, so maybe he has been even more pleased with Abbate's?


The depth chart says it is an unofficial one. Kubiak has said in the past that he doesn't like to ink in a depth chart in the preseason.

Basically, at this rate, the FBs who are going to get playing time are the ones who are functional.

Silver Oak
08-19-2007, 10:43 AM
I'll have to rewatch the game to try and count plays, but I believe Abbate spent the most time as FB.

Memo to NFL: give us a play count/time played for each player for ease of post game discussions. :shades:

tulexan
08-19-2007, 11:04 AM
Who cares about Leach's career rushing and receiving yards? He blows holes open and allows our running backs to get yeards. He also doesn't fumble the ball on key drives deep in the opponents territory late in the game.

texasguy346
08-19-2007, 11:21 AM
Leach is far & away our best FB. He's the only FB we have that compares favorably to what we used to have in Norris. Abbate is a great story, but he'll probably be on the PS this year. Cook should catch a ride with Van Pelt out of town.

GP
08-19-2007, 12:03 PM
are u sayign i am not a real texans fan?

If you like the Texans, then you ARE a real fan.

However...think of this as karate: There are different "belts" to distinguish how much you know, how much you can perform in a test-driven setting such as this board.

Your comments about Cook being the best FB are not very well-informed, in most of our opinions. And I know the word "opinion" can be focused on too much here: You can tell us that you have your opinion, and we have ours, and that maybe your opinion is right and ours is wrong.

You can feel how you feel...but it doesn't necessarily translate into fact.

And the fact is this: Kubiak brought in Cook and started him at FB. Cook was, by most Texans' fans (here on this board) standard, a bad FB. He was missing blocks, dropping passes, and then fumbing the ones that he did catch. And he was doing all of this at critical parts of the games.

Kubiak signed Leach off the street, and the impact was immediate. Leach was blwoing through defenders, sometimes taking out 2-3 guys at once. I can still see one TD run by Dayne, about 10 yards out, as Leach blows through a couple guys in one fluid motion...making it look easy.

The point is this: You cannot look at stats and determine who is best at any position. Leach is a dominant force, and almost every person here would agree with that assessment.

So, be aware that once you post something (such as "Cook is the best") you need to know 100% that you can back it up against 200 people here who also love the Texans and might challenge your assessment(s). It's just part of you, and I, and everyone else here being "real" Texans fans.

Welcome to the boards. :)

JohnsonFan
08-19-2007, 12:17 PM
Wali is much more talented & athletic than Dayne. But Dayne is a better rusher.

I like the idea of starting Dayne... haven't seen Ahman run this year, but I've been a Dayne fan since he showed up in shape in Denver. Meaning it got through his thick skull, that nothing is guaranteed, and you have to work to stay in this league.


I'll agree with dude, that Cook is a better fullback on paper. But it depends on what you want your fullback to do.

In a Denver system, where no one knows the full backs name... he chips, and releases.

In TampaBay, you want your fullback to resemble a mack truck.

Our OLine was not opening holes, and required more than a chip from the fullback in '06..... I don't believe that was Kubiak's design.

We needed a Mack truck, and Cook is more like a Tacoma, still a nice truck, but he's not Leach, who is a lot like Alstott.

Once our OL "master" Zone-Blocking, Cook will be better suited to our offense. He's much more athletic, has quicker burst, and is a better receiver than Leech.

I've yet to see the first team play in the preseason(I've been working quite a bit lately), so I don't know how much of a hybrid system Kubiak/Sherman are putting together... If we are actually building on what did work last year, then Cook's days are numbered.

i am glad u agree, people shouldn't get so mad at other ppls opinions.

GP
08-19-2007, 12:28 PM
i am glad u agree, people shouldn't get so mad at other ppls opinions.

(sigh)

You shouldn't get so disappointed when 99% of the board doesn't share your opinion. Read my earlier post. This is how we feel about you, OK? You are a real fan. You love the Texans. You're not looked at as being any better or less than we are.

It's just a simple process of understanding that not everyone is going to agree with you. AND, not everyone is going to reply nicely to you (nor to me).

There is one poster here that NEVER replies with well-meaning words or statements. His sole purpose is to rag EVERYONE here. And I mean everyone. I could let it get to me, but I would be playing into his plans.

Relax, and measure your words wisely...once they are posted, they are there as a record of what you think and feel.

Specnatz
08-19-2007, 04:31 PM
I think you really made people wonder if you really watched the games last year when you said Cook was the better fullback...that is not something most anyone would have stated if they watched the games.

Hell you do not even have to watch the games to know he had two fumbles that cost us games.

DBCooper
08-19-2007, 04:32 PM
We can always convert Cook to "scat" back.

TexanAddict
08-20-2007, 01:37 PM
Are U Guys Saying I Am Not A Texan Fan? Wow I Definitly Am Why Would I Be On This Board? And I Dont Apprecaite You Guys Not Taking My Opinions Seriously.

Sorry, but most of your posts don't seem to be very well reasoned or informed.

threetoedpete
08-20-2007, 01:49 PM
And you would be wrong. Leach is by far our best fullback. Not an opinion, just a fact.

Agreed: The only thing that is certain in '07 is that the Texan's offensive fortunes will have a direct correlation on how long Vonte Leach can remain health. The depth chart doesnot read this but it should...Leach then everyone else. He is worth his weight in gold. And he is one of the few locks on the roster.
Nice read though.

Vinny
08-20-2007, 01:53 PM
Agreed: The only thing that is certain in '07 is that the Texan's offensive fortunes will have a direct correlation on how long Vonte Leach can remain health. The depth chart doesnot read this but it should...Leach then everyone else. He is worth his weight in gold. And he is one of the few locks on the roster.
Nice read though.Leach is easily our best blocking fullback but I think Patrick Pass is our most versatile fullback and has the best hands and running ability.

Mr teX
08-20-2007, 01:55 PM
Not even. Leach has got the starting FB spot on lock.

Abbate has to find make himself useful by playing FB, LB & special teams good I forsee practice squad for him.

Pass is solid, but i think that he's gonna be mostly here for special teams.

Cook i think is gone regardless.

threetoedpete
08-20-2007, 02:00 PM
Leach is easily our best blocking fullback but I think Patrick Pass is our most versatile fullback and has the best hands and running ability.

Wel I stand by what I posted. I think fullback/TE is going to be a very difficult position to pair down this year. Unlike seasons past, a couple of our guys will be sgined by other clubs. Whether they keep pass cook, or the extra tight end, one thing is for sure....somebody gotta go. And leach for sure won't be on the turks list.

Mr teX
08-20-2007, 02:00 PM
Wali is much more talented & athletic than Dayne. But Dayne is a better rusher.

I like the idea of starting Dayne... haven't seen Ahman run this year, but I've been a Dayne fan since he showed up in shape in Denver. Meaning it got through his thick skull, that nothing is guaranteed, and you have to work to stay in this league.


I'll agree with dude, that Cook is a better fullback on paper. But it depends on what you want your fullback to do.

In a Denver system, where no one knows the full backs name... he chips, and releases.

In TampaBay, you want your fullback to resemble a mack truck.

Our OLine was not opening holes, and required more than a chip from the fullback in '06..... I don't believe that was Kubiak's design.

We needed a Mack truck, and Cook is more like a Tacoma, still a nice truck, but he's not Leach, who is a lot like Alstott.

Once our OL "master" Zone-Blocking, Cook will be better suited to our offense. He's much more athletic, has quicker burst, and is a better receiver than Leech.

I've yet to see the first team play in the preseason(I've been working quite a bit lately), so I don't know how much of a hybrid system Kubiak/Sherman are putting together... If we are actually building on what did work last year, then Cook's days are numbered.

T-skyss where have ya' been man?

Ryan
08-20-2007, 02:08 PM
for the love of god people fullback's aren't supposed to be great receivers or runners they're supposed to ****** block!!!! And it is evident that leach is the best one we have.

nunusguy
08-20-2007, 02:23 PM
Leach is of course the starter and has the potential to visit the Islands in February near term if AG and the Texans rushing game produces big-time.
Abbate is the sentimental favorite, not just with the fans but the HC has expressed an admiration for his desire and football instincts and as the rookie in the group he is the one with the most upside. But he's a dark horse to make the roster and the PS is probably his best shot.

Vinny
08-20-2007, 02:27 PM
for the love of god people fullback's aren't supposed to be great receivers or runners they're supposed to ****** block!!!! And it is evident that leach is the best one we have.
Don't tell that to Bill Walsh.....many wco FB's are used more like h-backs and need to be able to catch the ball out of the flat. You are talking about a traditional FB in the mold of Tim Wilson in an I formation....wco offenses generally use the FB to do more than be a smallish Guard.

JohnsonFan
08-20-2007, 02:28 PM
for the love of god people fullback's aren't supposed to be great receivers or runners they're supposed to ****** block!!!! And it is evident that leach is the best one we have. but its always helpful to have a full back who can comeout run and option go from blocking and go for a pass.

Specnatz
08-20-2007, 02:30 PM
Don't tell that to Bill Walsh.....many wco FB's are used more like h-backs and need to be able to catch the ball out of the flat. You are talking about a traditional FB in the mold of Tim Wilson in an I formation....wco offenses generally use the FB to do more than be a smallish Guard.

Exactly ala, Tom Rathman. I always liked his play and ability to do more than just one thing. It gives the offense more options and more for the defense to game plan for. Which is what made the traditional WCO so potent.

HOU-TEX
08-20-2007, 02:30 PM
but its always helpful to have a full back who can comeout run and option go from blocking and go for a pass.

"Which brings me to my second point, kids. Don't do crack." :gun:

JohnsonFan
08-20-2007, 02:32 PM
???

Mr teX
08-20-2007, 02:35 PM
Exactly ala, Tom Rathman. I always liked his play and ability to do more than just one thing. It gives the offense more options and more for the defense to game plan for. Which is what made the traditional WCO so potent.

or more recently Moose Johnson.

Specnatz
08-20-2007, 02:39 PM
or more recently Moose Johnson.

pfft you did not actually expect me to give credit to the cowgirls when I can come up with another player did you?

:bat: