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Hagar
08-18-2007, 06:27 PM
PLAYER__________TKL_____ASST______SCK _____FF
Mario Williams______0________0________0________0

Folks, this isn't good.

Am I expecting too much from this guy?

BattleRedToro
08-18-2007, 06:28 PM
Go back and count how many times he was held and it wasn't called. I bet you come up with a number bigger then zero.

real
08-18-2007, 06:28 PM
No.

But I don't want to get started on his performance...

I might get attacked by the peanut gallery...

real
08-18-2007, 06:30 PM
Go back and count how many times he was held and it wasn't called. I bet you come up with a number bigger then zero.

D-linemen are held on just about every play.

I did see MArio get held pretty bad one time, but he wasn't going to get a sack on that play as he was about 5 yards away from the QB when he released the ball.

pappy
08-18-2007, 06:30 PM
Go back and count how many times he was held and it wasn't called. I bet you come up with a number bigger then zero.

Yeah he was being held alot but he will need to beat that to !:bat:

HoustonFrog
08-18-2007, 06:31 PM
D-linemen are held on just about every play.

I did see MArio get held pretty bad one time, but he wasn't going to get a sack on that play as he was about 5 yards away from the QB when he released the ball.

Beat me to it

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
08-18-2007, 06:31 PM
Mario got dominated by the Cardinals second string offensive line. He better get his act together.

BattleRedToro
08-18-2007, 06:31 PM
D-linemen are held on just about every play.

I did see MArio get held pretty bad one time, but he wasn't going to get a sack on that play as he was about 5 yards away from the QB when he released the ball.

That doesn't matter it still should be called. A foul is a foul.

Vinny
08-18-2007, 06:31 PM
I got nothing to add....kinda like Mario

Marcus
08-18-2007, 06:32 PM
No.

But I don't want to get started on his performance...

I might get attacked by the peanut gallery...

No, go ahead and speak your mind, xtru. I love eating peanuts.:)

ObsiWan
08-18-2007, 06:32 PM
PLAYER__________TKL_____ASST______SCK _____FF
Mario Williams______0________0________0________0

Folks, this isn't good.

Am I expecting too much from this guy?

Probably. Babin is finally playing well... in his fourth year. Travis is showing signs of progress in his 3rd yr. Some of the talking heads said it would take a DL three yrs to truly "blossom"; maybe they were right for a change.

Kaiser Toro
08-18-2007, 06:34 PM
Mario did not do much today, but let's make sure we focus on him given that our team sucks more than ever in the last six years. :rolleyes:

Marcus
08-18-2007, 06:34 PM
That doesn't matter it still should be called. A foul is a foul.

"But it's only freakin preseason.";)

real
08-18-2007, 06:35 PM
That doesn't matter it still should be called. A foul is a foul.

Yeah well, maybe you should petition the league...

Vinny
08-18-2007, 06:35 PM
Mario did not do much today, but let's make sure we focus on him given that our team sucks more than ever in the last six years. :rolleyes:the team is better...but I lurk the Patriots board and see some other successful teams boards...and guess what? They rant against their disappointing players too. Go figure huh?

The Pencil Neck
08-18-2007, 06:36 PM
He has got to play better.

Kubes needs to talk to our defensive coaches and tell them to put the best 4 linemen on the field regardless of where they were drafted or who drafted them. And put them in the right places, too.

real
08-18-2007, 06:37 PM
Mario did not do much today, but let's make sure we focus on him given that our team sucks more than ever in the last six years. :rolleyes:

Fair is fair.

We were playing better than ever when Carr was here too.

If a player sucks, I'm not sure why it's a problem for us, as fans, to voice that.

TheIronDuke
08-18-2007, 06:38 PM
He was being quadruple-teamed and held every play. [/homer]

Kaiser Toro
08-18-2007, 06:38 PM
Fair is fair.

We were playing better than ever when Carr was here too.

If a player suck, I'm not sure why it's a problem for us, as fans, to voice that.

Just saying that we have a team that actualy may win games this year, so let's make sure we spoil it. Fair seems to be synonmous with lament in Houston, much like UT fans.

Vinny
08-18-2007, 06:39 PM
Just saying that we have a team that actualy may win games this year, so let's make sure we spoil it. Fair seems to be synonmous with lament in Houston, much like UT fans.seems you are out of touch with football fans on this one....all the fans hammer their disappointing players on all the teams...just look around. That doesn't make them any lesser fans....just makes them emotional football fans.

HoustonFrog
08-18-2007, 06:45 PM
Probably. Babin is finally playing well... in his fourth year. Travis is showing signs of progress in his 3rd yr. Some of the talking heads said it would take a DL three yrs to truly "blossom"; maybe they were right for a change.

The problem is that those guys weren't the #1 pick. I'm not here to hammer Mario but for every person that points out that Bruce Smith and others didn't kill it their first season, there is another side that shows that Kearse and Freeney and Merriman and even Ware to some extent that made plays their first year. Of course people then bring up injuries. I guess what I'm worried about is the same thing people were worried about scouting him..his motor. I saw some plays today where he was pushed back to where the LBs were and wasn't even 5 yards from the play. I'm ready to see the #1 guy blow by someone and get in the QBs head. I'm just giving my assessment here.

BattleRedToro
08-18-2007, 06:47 PM
Yeah well, maybe you should petition the league...

Maybe I should. It wasn't only Mario Williams that was held. Their entire O-Line was getting away with Offensive Holding on the Texans D-Line almost all game long.

Marcus
08-18-2007, 06:47 PM
Mario did not do much today, but let's make sure we focus on him given that our team sucks more than ever in the last six years. :rolleyes:

That's a "newbie" post if I ever saw one.

But you're not a newbie, so what the hell, man?

real
08-18-2007, 06:47 PM
I think I am being unfair to Mario when it's really the coaching staff's fault.

Mario is a good football player, but he's being asked to do something he's not suited for.

He's being asked to be THAT guy who provides pressure from the edge, and to date I have not seen anything from Mario's on field performances that suggest he's capable of doing so.

The guy should be playing Strong side DE. Not Weak side, or "RDE" as some would say.

Kaiser Toro
08-18-2007, 06:48 PM
seems you are out of touch with football fans on this one....all the fans hammer their disappointing players on all the teams...just look around

Out of touch with the need to hate on someone perhaps, but for the first time there is reason to have optimism due to the product as a whole. Carry on, as the need to hate seems to be therapeutic for some.

Leahmic223
08-18-2007, 06:49 PM
Probably. Babin is finally playing well... in his fourth year. Travis is showing signs of progress in his 3rd yr. Some of the talking heads said it would take a DL three yrs to truly "blossom"; maybe they were right for a change.

This is impossible. Every Dlinemen is supposed to produce immeidiately like Freeney and Peppers although they are the exception...

Seriously though

I mean Strahan, J.Taylor, Burgess, Vanden Bosch, DEs just take more time. These guys coming out of college are used to just over powering OTs and linemen. Some of them use one move in college, like how Mario had a awesome bullrush in college...well he is finding out that isn't going to work any more. While his speed and strength is a factor he needs more technique, once he gets that he should do well.

Also I didn't see the first drive for the Cardinals. But for Dlinemen in general it is harder to stack up tackles and Sacks are not a easy stat to attain. If 2 sacks and 3 tackles are good game for a DE, why are we expecting him to get this in the PT he's getting in Pre-Season?

Marcus
08-18-2007, 06:49 PM
Maybe I should. It wasn't only Mario Williams that was held. Their entire O-Line was getting away with Offensive Holding on the Texans D-Line almost all game long.

Let me get this straight. You are actually excusing their poor play.

real
08-18-2007, 06:49 PM
Maybe I should. It wasn't only Mario Williams that was held. Their entire O-Line was getting away with Offensive Holding on the Texans D-Line almost all game long.

Yet we still had some players that were able to get pressure, or atleast show signs of being able to rush the passer.

Imagine that.

Leahmic223
08-18-2007, 06:50 PM
I think I am being unfair to Mario when it's really the coaching staff's fault.

Mario is a good football player, but he's being asked to do something he's not suited for.

He's being asked to be THAT guy who provides pressure from the edge, and to date I have not seen anything from Mario's on field performances that suggest he's capable of doing so.

The guy should be playing Strong side DE. Not Weak side, or "RDE" as some would say.

I also think he me be better suited for Left side as well... but we will see when the season comes.

BattleRedToro
08-18-2007, 06:51 PM
I am an admitted Mario Williams fan, but even I can see that he has some things he still needs to work on. I believe he is still giving up his chest too much most of the time. Also, he doesn't look comfortable out there to me.

real
08-18-2007, 06:51 PM
This is impossible. Every Dlinemen is supposed to produce immeidiately like Freeney and Peppers although they are the exception...

Seriously though

I mean Strahan, J.Taylor, Burgess, Vanden Bosch, DEs just take more time. These guys coming out of college are used to just over powering OTs and linemen. Some of them use one move in college, like how Mario had a awesome bullrush in college...well he is finding out that isn't going to work any more. While his speed and strength is a factor he needs more technique, once he gets that he should do well.

Also I didn't see the first drive for the Cardinals. But for Dlinemen in general it is harder to stack up tackles and Sacks are not a easy stat to attain. If 2 sacks and 3 tackles are good game for a DE, why are we expecting him to get this in the PT he's getting in Pre-Season?

LOL....

:ok:

Kaiser Toro
08-18-2007, 06:52 PM
That's a "newbie" post if I ever saw one.

But you're not a newbie, so what the hell, man?

Mario did not do squat today, that is a fact in my eyes. Are you saying that he did?

Vinny
08-18-2007, 06:53 PM
Out of touch with the need to hate on someone perhaps, but for the first time there is reason to have optimism due to the product as a whole. Carry on, as the need to hate seems to be therapeutic for some.
you are just as bad labeling people as haters who are just voicing disappointment....I guess that's therapeutic for you as well.

BattleRedToro
08-18-2007, 06:54 PM
Yet we still had some players that were able to get pressure, or atleast show signs of being able to rush the passer.

Imagine that.

Against players that might not make the Cardinals' roster. By the time I saw the Texans putting pressure on the Cardinals' QB's their best O-Linemen were on the bench.

Kaiser Toro
08-18-2007, 06:55 PM
you are just as bad labeling people as haters who are just voicing disappointment....I guess that's therapeutic for you as well.

Did not call you a hater, but if the shoe fits smell it. I am disappointed in Mario as well and stated it last week and today. I care for the team, not for one player. Carry on.

real
08-18-2007, 06:56 PM
Against players that might not make the Cardinals' roster. By the time I saw the Texans putting pressure on the Cardinals' QB's their best O-Linemen were on the bench.

But, But, But....They were getting held!

Whatever...

Leahmic223
08-18-2007, 06:56 PM
I agree with BAttleRed about the holding...but it seems to me Mario is being singled out again when our Dline in general didn't get any pressure until the end of the game...

Babin did good but that was about it. TJ did alright, but overall our Dline play in general needs to improve.

Aaelen86
08-18-2007, 06:57 PM
Not trying to defend Mario, but a player similar to his physical attributes, Julius Peppers (who I might add has been in the league a lot longer) put up Mario-type numbers last night.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?season=2007&week=PRE2&game_id=29471

It was interesting to me to see one of the elite pass rushers in the league be a no-show. Though sadly for Mario, Peppers has shown what he can do in the regular season.

Maybe Mario is unmotivated in preseason, maybe he really is a bust, but I find it hard to label him a true bust until after year 3.

Rex King
08-18-2007, 06:57 PM
Just saying that we have a team that actualy may win games this year, so let's make sure we spoil it. Fair seems to be synonmous with lament in Houston, much like UT fans.

But people wouldn't complain if they didn't care. I desperately want Mario to be great, like I desperately wanted that girl in kindergarden to like me. And I have reservations about us being able to win a lot of games without someone, anyone stepping up on the D-line. Mario seemed to be the guy primed to do that. He's snubbing us. Purposely.

ObsiWan
08-18-2007, 06:57 PM
With a couple of exceptions, I'm dissatisfied with the entire first team defense. I didn't get the 3-&-outs like I was looking for. There wasn't the pass rush everyone else was looking for...

Smith can't be happy.

as a fan, I know I'm not.

We need to stop collecting WRs and collect some DBs. And let the four most aggressive D-linemen start. I don't care what they make or where they were drafted.

BattleRedToro
08-18-2007, 06:58 PM
But, But, But....They were getting held!

Whatever...

Go back and watch the game and then tell me that Babin and TJ weren't being held. I agree that they got more pressure but they were being held at other times as well.

Leahmic223
08-18-2007, 07:00 PM
Not trying to defend Mario, but a player similar to his physical attributes, Julius Peppers (who I might add has been in the league a lot longer) put up Mario-type numbers last night.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?season=2007&week=PRE2&game_id=29471

It was interesting to me to see one of the elite pass rushers in the league be a no-show. Though sadly for Mario, Peppers has shown what he can do in the regular season.

Maybe Mario is unmotivated in preseason, maybe he really is a bust, but I find it hard to label him a true bust until after year 3.

This isn't going to work here man. I have been saying this since last year and especially last week.

I think it is because our fanbase in general is impatient and tired of losing. As I am, so the pressure on Mario is tremendous especially since we skipped on two other phenominal players.

No one wants to wait for the regular season.

Marcus
08-18-2007, 07:03 PM
Mario did not do squat today, that is a fact in my eyes. Are you saying that he did?

I mean't that you're not a newbie in that you should know by now how it works around here. If a player sucks, we criticize. That doesn't mean we don't see what the rest of the team is doing, or how well they are doing.

Silver Oak
08-18-2007, 07:05 PM
Some folks are just looking to throw Mario under the bus, and I think it still goes back to them not getting who they wanted in last years draft.

Let's give him some regular season playing time and see how he's progressed since last year.

We won the game...both sides of the ball looked good...let's feel good about that!

Aaelen86
08-18-2007, 07:08 PM
This isn't going to work here man. I have been saying this since last year and especially last week.

I think it is because our fanbase in general is impatient and tired of losing. As I am, so the pressure on Mario is tremendous especially since we skipped on two other phenominal players.

No one wants to wait for the regular season.

I agree about the impatient about losing part, even as bad as the Browns were since they have come back in 1999 they were to the playoffs with Tim Couch in what year 3? So after 5 years and a 7-9 record is frustrating.

Mario has shown glimpses "allegedly" in practice when he is angry so I don't want to write him off completely. However, after the fiasco with Carr, giving him so many opportunities to prove himself as a #1 overall pick, and continually failing to get the job done. It seems that the leash is even shorter with Williams, byy the point you made, of the passing of Bush and Young.

Marcus
08-18-2007, 07:09 PM
Some folks are just looking to throw Mario under the bus, and I think it still goes back to them not getting who they wanted in last years draft.

BULLCHIT!!! He didn't do squat out there today. That's all I look at.

Let's give him some regular season playing time and see how he's progressed since last year.

We won the game...both sides of the ball looked good...let's feel good about that!

We won a preseason game...BFD! And only one side of the ball looked good.

Leahmic223
08-18-2007, 07:10 PM
Some folks are just looking to throw Mario under the bus, and I think it still goes back to them not getting who they wanted in last years draft.

Let's give him some regular season playing time and see how he's progressed since last year.

We won the game...both sides of the ball looked good...let's feel good about that!

Which is why I Defend him here. I feel like the Mario protector. I think I wanted Reggie more than Vince but not more than Mario. But when we did get him I didn't mind the pure potential he has in the NFL.

The guy has the potential to be a HOF DE, I expect that out of him. I expect him to have a 18 sack season, to sniff the record or maybe even break it. I just don't expect him to start showing his potential until his 3rd or 4th season.

We'll see what he does in the regular season, that is what really matters.

Although I disagree with you, I think our defense (1st and 2nd team) could have done better.

*Edit*

I phrased that wrong.

I meant I wanted Reggie more than Vince and more than Mario. But I didn't want Vince more than Mario. But I wanted D'brickashaw 2nd over MArio and Vince.

Kaiser Toro
08-18-2007, 07:12 PM
I mean't that you're not a newbie in that you should know by now how it works around here. If a player sucks, we criticize. That doesn't mean we don't see what the rest of the team is doing, or how well they are doing.

The team has stunk the past five years and the product this year is visibly different yet we continue to ***** and moan.

Maybe y'all have some sort of complex in Houston due to Bud Adams or maybe the 1993 playoff game against the Bills still haunts everyone. It is very weird in my opinion. I see bitching, but I see no critique on the player in question.

We won. Our rookie returned a punt for a TD. The Oline played well. Schaub and Sage played with poise. Green looked pretty good. Turk started. Lastly, Mario showed nothing but attacking the offensive lineman's numbers in front of him, again.

ObsiWan
08-18-2007, 07:13 PM
Some folks are just looking to throw Mario under the bus, and I think it still goes back to them not getting who they wanted in last years draft.

Let's give him some regular season playing time and see how he's progressed since last year.

We won the game...both sides of the ball looked good...let's feel good about that!

We do. But we could/should be better. That's the disappointing part.

Think about it, we missed 2 out of 3 chances in the red zone. Our D still let the Cardinal QBs go 14 of 16. We give up that kind of percentage to Manning and Brees and we'll get eaten alive.

We need to fix this stuff now.

PapaL
08-18-2007, 07:15 PM
Did he wow anyone? NO.

Is he a bust? Too early to tell.

1st string DL didn't impress me any at all today. It seems Mario is thinking and not playing. Doesn't mean he sucks, just means he's not comfortable. By all means continue to express your displeasure but you have to give the guy time. He's not going to make every tackle nor get every sack. But he should be showing more at this point.

PapaL
08-18-2007, 07:18 PM
\
Think about it, we missed 2 out of 3 chances in the red zone. Our D still let the Cardinal QBs go 14 of 16. We give up that kind of percentage to Manning and Brees and we'll get eaten alive.


The defense is playing vanilla. No scheming no blitzing. The opposing Offense is going to look better, they know what play they want to run and they also know the defense is doing anything fancy.

CloakNNNdagger
08-18-2007, 07:23 PM
Mario is starting to fit the definition of "insanity"...................doing the same thing over and over and expecting another result. He cannot continue to try to be a "one trick pony." He will not be able to overpower each oponent head on to the outside............Bull rush as your only move is Bull***t..............Where are the coaches???????:embarrass

rollinstone18
08-18-2007, 07:23 PM
I'll wait to hear what Franklin and Bush have to say about Mario's performance. But nothing I saw was very noteworthy from any of the d-lineman, except maybe Kalu.

Marcus
08-18-2007, 07:24 PM
The team has stunk the past five years and the product this year is visibly different yet we continue to ***** and moan.

Maybe y'all have some sort of complex in Houston due to Bud Adams or maybe the 1993 playoff game against the Bills still haunts everyone. It is very weird in my opinion. I see bitching, but I see no critique on the player in question.

We won. Our rookie returned a punt for a TD. The Oline played well. Schaub and Sage played with poise. Green looked pretty good. Turk started. Lastly, Mario showed nothing but attacking the offensive lineman's numbers in front of him, again.

So, even though we think the rest of the team played well, we're "pissing and moaning" on a Mario Williams thread?

:um: oooookay

Tell me again why you're criticizing us?

Wolf
08-18-2007, 07:28 PM
well we might just release the whole D-line then

Weaver doesn't show up in the stats
Tj's 3 total tackles one sack (can't tell which of the two did what so combined them)
Okoye 1 tackle
Williams doesn't show up either

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=270818022

Rex King
08-18-2007, 07:29 PM
I see bitching, but I see no critique on the player in question.

I think you summed it up pretty well:

Lastly, Mario showed nothing but attacking the offensive lineman's numbers in front of him, again.

HJam72
08-18-2007, 07:29 PM
Our O-Line has given up 1 sack in two games. I gotta believe that our D-line will do better in real games and our O-Line won't look quite so great.

real
08-18-2007, 07:32 PM
I find joy in analyzing players performances...Nothing more nothing less...

For instance...If you go back and look at some of Travis Johnsons' pass rush moves you will be very imressed....He even had one play where he faked liked he was jumping up to bat a pass down and threw his hands in the air...The offensive lineman reacted and kind of stood up a bit TJ ripped under him and hit the QB as he threw...He had some very nice moves today and was really active...Also Kasey Studdard looked borderline amazing...Both in pass pro and in run blocking...I liked all the RB's...Morlon still sucked IMO...We gotta a problem with our safeties...

BUT this IS a Mario Williams thread...

Who'd have ever thunk to find critique of mario in here ? :um:

Kaiser Toro
08-18-2007, 07:33 PM
"But it's only freakin preseason.";)

That's a "newbie" post if I ever saw one.

But you're not a newbie, so what the hell, man?

Let me get this straight. You are actually excusing their poor play.

I mean't that you're not a newbie in that you should know by now how it works around here. If a player sucks, we criticize. That doesn't mean we don't see what the rest of the team is doing, or how well they are doing.

BULLCHIT!!! He didn't do squat out there today. That's all I look at.



We won a preseason game...BFD! And only one side of the ball looked good.

So, even though we think the rest of the team played well, we're "pissing and moaning" on a Mario Williams thread?

:um: oooookay

Tell me again why you're criticizing us?

As I had said...

I see bitching, but I see no critique on the player in question.

Leahmic223
08-18-2007, 07:37 PM
well we might just release the whole D-line then

Weaver doesn't show up in the stats
Tj's 3 total tackles one sack (can't tell which of the two did what so combined them)
Okoye 1 tackle
Williams doesn't show up either

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=270818022

The reason is because Dline stats are hard to come by. You can't play 15 plays as a Dline and expect 3 tackles and a sack... Some DTs get 3 Ts a game, if you are then you have around 48 tackles for the year...which is a lot for a DT. Compare that to the amount of tkls a LB gets...

A DE is having a good game if he's got 3 tackles in a sack...that is in a WHOLE game. So I am just wondering why expect Mario to have any stats after the time he has played?

Even Kubes said his play would eventually show in the stats had he played the whole game...that is why we need to wait for the regular season.

real
08-18-2007, 07:46 PM
The reason is because Dline stats are hard to come by. You can't play 15 plays as a Dline and expect 3 tackles and a sack... Some DTs get 3 Ts a game, if you are then you have around 48 tackles for the year...which is a lot for a DT. Compare that to the amount of tkls a LB gets...

A DE is having a good game if he's got 3 tackles in a sack...that is in a WHOLE game. So I am just wondering why expect Mario to have any stats after the time he has played?

Even Kubes said his play would eventually show in the stats had he played the whole game...that is why we need to wait for the regular season.

That's the problem with looking at stats....It leads you to believe Mario and Julius Peppers are on the same level...LOL @ Stats...



Trust your eyes...Mario gets no pressure...He uses no moves...No burst...He doesn't look much different from last year guys....Maybe a bit slimmer, but as far as the playing goes he's still struggling...

Either Mario should be a Strong side DE, or he needs to wake up and use his abilities....He may never develop that ummph that a pass rusher has and that'd be fine if he were a LDE...But he's not...He's at RDE...

If Weaver comes back and is in the starting line-up then our pressure will look worse...you guys do realize that right? The best thing for us to do would be to leave AW on the bench and just play un-conventionally with Babin or Kalu on the Left side...And some how we gotta work T.J in there to see what he can do....

Hagar
08-18-2007, 07:48 PM
Did he wow anyone? NO.

Is he a bust? Too early to tell.The problem I'm having is that Mario hasn't WOWed me at all. Not last year and certainly not this year either. Yes, I give him a little bit of a pass on last year because of the injury, but I expected to see signs of brilliance this preseason. I haven't seen anything from him. If Mario had one play were he really gave chase to the QB or stuffed the run, just something I could cheer, I’d feel much better about him.

And, as far as Bust talk goes, well, he's not a bust, yet, but the word is starting to linger in the back of my mind.

Leahmic223
08-18-2007, 07:53 PM
That's the problem with looking at stats....It leads you to believe Mario and Julius Peppers are on the same level...LOL @ Stats...



Trust your eyes...Mario gets no pressure...He uses no moves...No burst...He doesn't look much different from last year guys....Maybe a bit slimmer, but as far as the playing goes he's still struggling...

Either Mario should be a Strong side DE, or he needs to wake up and use his abilities....He may never develop that ummph that a pass rusher has and that'd be fine if he were a LDE...But he's not...He's at RDE...

If Weaver comes back and is in the starting line-up then our pressure will look worse...you guys do realize that right? The best thing for us to do would be to leave AW on the bench and just play un-conventionally with Babin or Kalu on the Left side...And some how we gotta work T.J in there to see what he can do....


Yeah his stats right now are the same as Peppers...but they were not in the regular season...

The point is to wait till the regular season, how hard is that? Its coming up.

Look at a lot of the good DEs stats in preseason...they are pretty similar. And the thread is blaming Mario for not having any in preseason and the reason is because it takes a full game for DE to have any stats at all.

You say the problem with stats is that they lead you to beleive that MArio and Peppers are on the same level...no they do not. Peppers had 13 last season and Mario had 4.5...how is that similar?

real
08-18-2007, 07:54 PM
Yeah his stats right now are the same as Peppers...but they were not in the regular season...

The point is to wait till the regular season, how hard is that? Its coming up.

Look at a lot of the good DEs stats in preseason...they are pretty similar. And the thread is blaming Mario for not having any in preseason and the reason is because it takes a full game for DE to have any stats at all.

You say the problem with stats is that they lead you to beleive that MArio and Peppers are on the same level...no they do not. Peppers had 13 last season and Mario had 4.5...how is that similar?


Wow...

:gun:

Just do me a favor. Watch Mario play and then watch a player who you'd consider to be average that plays the same DE position.

Use your eyes, trust your gut.

HJam72
08-18-2007, 07:54 PM
I'm starting to think Mario is a RDE, which is really sad considering.

Silver Oak
08-18-2007, 07:55 PM
I find joy in analyzing players performances...Nothing more nothing less...

For instance...If you go back and look at some of Travis Johnsons' pass rush moves you will be very imressed....He even had one play where he faked liked he was jumping up to bat a pass down and threw his hands in the air...The offensive lineman reacted and kind of stood up a bit TJ ripped under him and hit the QB as he threw...He had some very nice moves today and was really active...Also Kasey Studdard looked borderline amazing...Both in pass pro and in run blocking...I liked all the RB's...Morlon still sucked IMO...We gotta a problem with our safeties...

BUT this IS a (misdirected) Mario Williams thread...

Who'd have ever thunk to find critique of mario in here ? :um:


Thats very good to hear about Johnson and Studdard.

HJam72
08-18-2007, 07:56 PM
Maybe he should try the basketball shooting move, lol.

Leahmic223
08-18-2007, 08:01 PM
Wow...

:gun:

Just do me a favor. Watch Mario play and then watch a player who you'd consider to be average that plays the same DE position.

Use your eyes, trust your gut.

The thing is man, Mario did not play a full game. So you can't properly judge him on a few plays.

Kubes said last week that his play would show in stats had he played the full game...which is why we are going to have to wait and see what happens in the regular season.

That is all I have been saying. All I am saying is we should wait.

I am not saying he played well. I am not saying he played horrible. I am saying it is better to just wait than to pass him off as anything because if the contrary happens, you'll look like a fool.

real
08-18-2007, 08:04 PM
The thing is man, Mario did not play a full game. So you can't properly judge him on a few plays.

Kubes said last week that his play would show in stats had he played the full game...which is why we are going to have to wait and see what happens in the regular season.

That is all I have been saying. All I am saying is we should wait.

I am not saying he played well. I am not saying he played horrible. I am saying it is better to just wait than to pass him off as anything because if the contrary happens, you'll look like a fool.


I don't need to do that. I can look at the guy and tell he's not playing well.

Stop feeding me this non-sense about how he really is, but he just hasn't played a full game and he will miraculously start playing ball "when it really counts"...ball players play ball....

You're in denial. His play was borderline terrible.

Leahmic223
08-18-2007, 08:06 PM
I don't need to do that. I can look at the guy and tell he's not playing well.

Stop feeding me this non-sense about how he really is, but he just hasn't played a full game and he will miraculously start playing ball "when it really counts"...ball players play ball....

You're in denial. His play was borderline terrible.

I am in denial about what?

I never said he played well...where are you getting this from. What post did I say "Mario played well today."

Where did I say this? I am confused.

HJam72
08-18-2007, 08:06 PM
I can see that from the stats. :specnatz:

Leahmic223
08-18-2007, 08:13 PM
I can see that from the stats. :specnatz:

I didn't bring up stats. If you want to, trust me I can.

The problem is the thread title indicates that the Mario having no stats are a problem in the preseason.

Yet look at the stats for DEs in the preseason around the league...you are not going to find many numbers.

So I countered with a post saying basically how do you expect a DE to have any stats after playing what about 15-20 snaps? He's lucky to get 3 tkls and a sack for a full game.

Then Tru brings up that the stats would indicate that Peppers and Mario are on the same level... no they do not because if you look at the Regular Season stats it would show that Peppers is a much better DE than Mario....

HJam72
08-18-2007, 08:18 PM
Thanks for the recap. :shades:

If you do that every time I make a smarta@# remark that's nothing more than a feeble attempt at humour, you will be typing an awful lot. :)

Leahmic223
08-18-2007, 08:21 PM
Thanks for the recap. :shades:

If you do that every time I make a smarta@# remark that's nothing more than a feeble attempt at humour, you will be typing an awful lot. :)

Nah its okay, I actually enjoy typing and writing. :doot:

Some days I just have a urge to write something or type something. Then I type fast(or I try) so I tend to make TONS of typos.

bayshorebevo
08-18-2007, 08:30 PM
I taped the game and just watched every down that Mario played more than once. The coaches are not going to be pleased no matter what the coach speak says. He was thrown around like a rag doll and was never once anywhere near doing anything. He spent half his time on the ground. Yes he was held a few times but it wouldn't have made a difference because he was already out of the play. A cardboard cutout would have done just as much. I want Mario to play well but he didn't. He played plenty tonight and didn't do anything. My wife said everytime they touched him he fell down (which is an exaggeration but he sure spent alot of time on his backside.) You would expect him to have had a couple good moments. Before the apologists bust my chops, please watch the game again and tell me where the above is untrue rather than spouting out the party line.

HJam72
08-18-2007, 08:32 PM
I don't think I can make the bars work again. :cool:

Second Honeymoon
08-18-2007, 08:32 PM
wow, 75+ posts in a matter of hours. seems like Mario's suckitude is the new topic du jour since ChoirBoy got sent packing.

i will withhold judgement till we see him during the regular season, but I have to admit he looks like total garbage out there. just piss poor effort and piss poor results. he better fix things and fix them fast. If Kubiak says he was pleased with his performance, I think the dude got a frontal lobe lobotomy.

at least Schaubbie looked crisp, Dunta looked like a man on a mission, and that kid Jacoby looks like a real deal diamond in the rough, courtesy of RS.

Kaiser Toro
08-18-2007, 08:33 PM
Before the apologists bust my chops, please watch the game again and tell me where the above is untrue rather than spouting out the party line.

Have not seen many, if any, apologists around here for Mario. You do not have to watch the game again, if one watched it live to know he did not perform up to expectations for the fans, including me. What matters is if he met expectations for the staff.

bayshorebevo
08-18-2007, 08:34 PM
Have not seen many, if any, apologists around here for Mario. You do not have to watch the game again, if one watched it live to know he did not perform up to expectations for the fans, including me. What matters is if he met expectations for the staff.

If he met expectations for the staff, they don't expect to win any games this year.

Kaiser Toro
08-18-2007, 08:35 PM
If he met expectations for the staff, they don't expect to win any games this year.

Now that is just plain silly.

HJam72
08-18-2007, 08:37 PM
Now that is just plain silly.

I hate silliness. :)

bayshorebevo
08-18-2007, 08:39 PM
Now that is just plain silly.

What is silly about a player playing a half of a game like crap and expecting the coaching staff to be unhappy about it. if they aren't they are idiots. And don't give me that garbage about they know more than everyone else either.

Fox
08-18-2007, 08:45 PM
I agree with xtru, I've been a fan of Mario being a strongside DE for sometime now. He hasn't demonstrated the pass rushing skills to be the weakside DE. Bump Mario to strongside and put in Kalu or Babin in his spot at weakside. Putting him in the position that's supposed to generate our most consistent pressure only magnifies his inadequacies. I think he could make a very good strongside DE anchoring the line and hopefully eventually providing *some* pass rush.

It's disturbing how little production we're getting out of an area we've spent so much on the last four years. The only positive I've taken from that group is that after a couple years of mediocre play, Babin and TJ (mainly Babin) seem to have finally taken a step forward.

I want to see a healthy season out of Mario before I panic, but I'm definitely worried at this point. Okoye isn't playing well but the guy's 20 years old. He's got a couple years before I expect really big things from him.

Wolf
08-18-2007, 08:46 PM
too bad mario isn't Carr or our defense would have a bunch of sacks

bayshorebevo
08-18-2007, 08:48 PM
So...what are you saying? Proper spelling and grammar would help. Capitalization is espcially helpful. Incompelete sentences are baffling.

Don't be stupid, this isn't a spelling bee. We are talking about football where guys are trying to knock the heck out of each other. I am sick of this team going down the toilet since it started and a bunch of people saying its okay. It's time the Texans stood up to be counted. BTW, how many of the players would write a paragraph grammatically correct? I suppose that is more important than winning games.

HJam72
08-18-2007, 08:50 PM
Ai'nt nuttin rong wit da playas rightin.

pappy
08-18-2007, 08:55 PM
too bad mario isn't Carr or our defense would have a bunch of sacks

LOL:d: :d:

BattleRedToro
08-18-2007, 09:06 PM
BTW, how many of the players would write a paragraph grammatically correct?

I know one that wouldn't, Vince " Mr. Wonderlic" Young.

HJam72
08-18-2007, 09:07 PM
He spells it "wonder lick".

Silver Oak
08-18-2007, 09:20 PM
I know one that wouldn't, Vince " Mr. Wonderlic" Young.

:toast2:

bayshorebevo
08-18-2007, 09:30 PM
Calling people stupid will have you shot down in a hurry, bub. State your case so it's understandable.

Last time I checked, most NFL players weren't on their MBs. After playing a lousy game, they were getting chewed up.

We know the Texans haven't been stellar of late. They've never been stellar. At least pose a point so it can be addressed instead of having us speculate as to your meaning. Unless your point is that we need to win. I think we're all on the same page there.:homer:

"So...what are you saying? Proper spelling and grammar would help. Capitalization is espcially helpful. Incompelete sentences are baffling."

You called me stupid with that quote. or were you just trying to be superior, bub?

threetoedpete
08-18-2007, 09:48 PM
The problem is that those guys weren't the #1 pick. I'm not here to hammer Mario but for every person that points out that Bruce Smith and others didn't kill it their first season, there is another side that shows that Kearse and Freeney and Merriman and even Ware to some extent that made plays their first year. Of course people then bring up injuries. I guess what I'm worried about is the same thing people were worried about scouting him..his motor. I saw some plays today where he was pushed back to where the LBs were and wasn't even 5 yards from the play. I'm ready to see the #1 guy blow by someone and get in the QBs head. I'm just giving my assessment here.

Well it was a little thingy...didn't matter much....on the fourth and one, Maddox stuffed Al Johnson and made his gonads retreat back up into his body cavity. 'Ol Al will be seaching for his spenter for a few days. Maddox and Mario held the point with two guys driving into Mario. Now , Demeeeco and Clark are getting all the gravy from that play. But Maddox and Mario held the point. They turned the RBs shoulder pads. As far as your instant gradifacation is concerned, they guy is still a babe and he is husseling every play. What I can not for the life of me understand is why we can hold our water and wait for Babins and T.J. to develope , but Mario has to be Reggie White out of the box. You wanna worry about something on the defensive side, worry about four FF on the ground and no one gets close to the recovery. Vincent plays for the Titans and Reggie plays for the Saints. All the banging in the world on Mario isn't going to change those two facts. He'll emerge when he emerges.

HoustonFrog
08-18-2007, 09:56 PM
Well it was a little thingy...didn't matter much....on the fourth and one, Maddox stuffed Al Johnson and made his gonads retreat back up into his body cavity. 'Ol Al will be seaching for his spenter for a few days. Maddox and Mario held the point with two guys driving into Mario. Now , Demeeeco and Clark are getting all the gravy from that play. But Maddox and Mario held the point. They turned the RBs shoulder pads. As far as your instant gradifacation is concerned, they guy is still a babe and he is husseling every play. What I can not for the life of me understand is why we can hold our water and wait for Babins and T.J. to develope , but Mario has to be Reggie White out of the box. You wanna worry about something on the defensive side, worry about four FF on the ground and no one gets close to the recovery. Vincent plays for the Titans and Reggie plays for the Saints. All the banging in the world on Mario isn't going to change those two facts. He'll emerge when he emerges.

I understand what you are saying but you are barking up the wrong tree. I'm not sitting here yelling "bust." I'm trying to explain what you get when you take a guy #1 overall. 1) I'm not sure on the hustling. Do I think he is jaking it?I'm not going to say that but there were questions about his motor since NC St. So I'd like to see some full games in yr 2 and see what he has. 2) I never said anything about Babin or TJ. I think Babin has been horrible for what Charlie gave up but will be happy is he has a breakout year. I'm concerned TJ had to have a coach threaten to cut him to get him to turn it around. 3) My thread had nothing to do with VY or Reggie. You just have to realize that your assessment might make alot of sense for the 17th guy taken in the 1st round but when you take a guy #1 overall, you are expecting to see plays, not someone that can spend a career holding the line. The reasoning behind his pick was "we are getting torched in the secondary and having a guy who can pressure the QB can change that." Right now, we aren't getting close to that. So I'd like to see more. That isn't a sin.

PapaL
08-18-2007, 10:04 PM
The problem I'm having is that Mario hasn't WOWed me at all. Not last year and certainly not this year either. Yes, I give him a little bit of a pass on last year because of the injury, but I expected to see signs of brilliance this preseason. I haven't seen anything from him. If Mario had one play were he really gave chase to the QB or stuffed the run, just something I could cheer, I’d feel much better about him.

And, as far as Bust talk goes, well, he's not a bust, yet, but the word is starting to linger in the back of my mind.

No arguements here. All I can say is that I will withhold judgments until after year 3. Last year with the bouncing around and playing all 4 positions, thats just crazy. Hopefully this year he'll be able to concentrate on learning and doing one thing well; rush the passer from one spot. If what we saw last year and then in these two preseason games is any indication then we screwed up. Until next year is over I'm not going to say that.

Good luck Mario, we the fans/team/city need you.

maddogmrb
08-18-2007, 10:14 PM
Some folks are just looking to throw Mario under the bus, and I think it still goes back to them not getting who they wanted in last years draft.

Let's give him some regular season playing time and see how he's progressed since last year.

We won the game...both sides of the ball looked good...let's feel good about that!

What are u smoking? Our defense was in disarray the entire game and MW & AO were total non-factors when they were in the game. Of course, we should give them time to develop but, they should also show flashes of the promised greatness and that is not happening. Now, it is not their fault that we drafted them as high as we did. So, the disappointment should be pointed at the FO.

BattleRedToro
08-18-2007, 10:18 PM
What are u smoking? Our defense was in disarray the entire game and MW & AO were total non-factors when they were in the game. Of course, we should give them time to develop but, they should also show flashes of the promised greatness and that is not happening. Now, it is not their fault that we drafted them as high as we did. So, the disappointment should be pointed at the FO.

It takes time for young D-Linemen to develop. The Texans have drafted the youngest player in 2 consecutive drafts, now. It should not be expected that these young players be dominant immediatly.

PapaL
08-18-2007, 10:18 PM
What are u smoking? Our defense was in disarray the entire game and MW & AO were total non-factors when they were in the game. Of course, we should give them time to develop but, they should also show flashes of the promised greatness and that is not happening. Now, it is not their fault that we drafted them as high as we did. So, the disappointment should be pointed at the FO.

How can there be disapointment after 3 quarters of NFL football for AO and a year for MW? Mario's lack of "WOW" factor I understand somewhat. But AO? Come on.

maddogmrb
08-18-2007, 10:55 PM
It takes time for young D-Linemen to develop. The Texans have drafted the youngest player in 2 consecutive drafts, now. It should not be expected that these young players be dominant immediatly.

I didn't say they are supposed to be dominant .... just show us some flashes.

maddogmrb
08-18-2007, 10:58 PM
How can there be disapointment after 3 quarters of NFL football for AO and a year for MW? Mario's lack of "WOW" factor I understand somewhat. But AO? Come on.

I see, so our #1 picks are not supposed to show us ANYTHING for several years and then miraculously they are going to become impact players. I'm glad nobody has told Jacoby Jones that.

Also, I don't think Adam Carriker is subscribing to that hyposthesis, and neither is Patrick Willis.

BattleRedToro
08-18-2007, 11:06 PM
I see, so our #1 picks are not supposed to show us ANYTHING for several years and then miraculously they are going to become impact players. I'm glad nobody has told Jacoby Jones that.

Also, I don't think Adam Carriker is subscribing to that hyposthesis, and neither is Patrick Willis.

Jacoby Jones is a WR/PR not a DE or a DT.
Patrick Willis is a LB not a DE or a DT.
Adam Carriker is a DT but he is the exception so far in preseason at DT and not the rule.

JohnsonFan
08-18-2007, 11:13 PM
atleast okoye looks good..

maddogmrb
08-18-2007, 11:21 PM
Jacoby Jones is a WR/PR not a DE or a DT.
Patrick Willis is a LB not a DE or a DT.
Adam Carriker is a DT but he is the exception so far in preseason at DT and not the rule.

I see, so expectations are higher for all other positions (and other team's picks) than for our highly drafted dlinemen?? So now, all of a sudden, dline (only on our team) is the MOST difficult position in football to play?? I don't think so..... It appears that just because WE drafted them folks want to give them a free pass. Again, this is not beating up on MW and AO but, our FO for drafting them ahead of where they should have been.

HJam72
08-18-2007, 11:28 PM
Jacoby is not a first rounder. He doesn't have all that pressure to deal with. :)

Wolf
08-18-2007, 11:29 PM
I see, so expectations are higher for all other positions (and other team's picks) than for our highly drafted dlinemen?? So now, all of a sudden, dline (only on our team) is the MOST difficult position in football to play?? I don't think so..... It appears that just because WE drafted them folks want to give them a free pass. Again, this is not beating up on MW and AO but, our FO for drafting them ahead of where they should have been.

depends on what you are looking for

I am not defending anyone but...

easier to show up in stats with say, 80 yards receiving than 1 tackle.

granted our DL is paid (whole DL) is paid alot of money to make plays

Leahmic223
08-18-2007, 11:34 PM
To those saying he has shown no flashes or has made no plays...are we forgetting that his fumble he forced was a MAJOR reason we won that game. Simply because we had a extra possesion, and if I remember correct we won because of that extra possesion.

The Giants game he had a series where all he did was dominate. Even the T holding him told him to slow down.

The Jets game he made a few plays also...

The Dolphins game he tipped a pass that could have lead to a Dolphin win and a Texan loss.

So I would disagree with the 'He's shown no flashes or has made no plays'
I remember in the Jets game he just tossed the guy who was blocking him into the RB which made the RB fall...

Maybe that's all he's done, but he has shown flashes of dominance here and there and he's made some big plays. I really disagree with he's shown no flashes. No one remember that Giants game he dominated pretty much that first half and slowed down (kinda disappeared) the second. That could be his foot, but the point is he disappeared the 2nd half.

JohnsonFan
08-18-2007, 11:35 PM
i just wish mario played like a 1st pick :(

2BCF
08-18-2007, 11:55 PM
i just wish mario played like a 1st pick :(

Don't we all.

Apparently, Dean's "cone of uncertainty" has engulfed Mario.

threetoedpete
08-19-2007, 12:50 AM
I understand what you are saying but you are barking up the wrong tree. I'm not sitting here yelling "bust." I'm trying to explain what you get when you take a guy #1 overall. 1) I'm not sure on the hustling. Do I think he is jaking it?I'm not going to say that but there were questions about his motor since NC St. So I'd like to see some full games in yr 2 and see what he has. 2) I never said anything about Babin or TJ. I think Babin has been horrible for what Charlie gave up but will be happy is he has a breakout year. I'm concerned TJ had to have a coach threaten to cut him to get him to turn it around. 3) My thread had nothing to do with VY or Reggie. You just have to realize that your assessment might make alot of sense for the 17th guy taken in the 1st round but when you take a guy #1 overall, you are expecting to see plays, not someone that can spend a career holding the line. The reasoning behind his pick was "we are getting torched in the secondary and having a guy who can pressure the QB can change that." Right now, we aren't getting close to that. So I'd like to see more. That isn't a sin.



I dunno how many times I've got to post this sheet...one more apperently. Up untill that wensday, the day befor the Reggie Bush house stroy broke...no one offered a trade. No one. Mario was the best d-lineman on the board. Period. They were not going to take Bush.They put a phone call into the guy two days befor the story broke. And when they came back his demands were so outragous...the house story made Bush untouchable. They were not going to take Vincent. All you gotta do is watch the guy work a quarter and any sane person can see the guy can not pass the ball. Couldn't do it in highschool. Couldn't do it in college. And won't ever do it. Damn sure didn't do it last night. Their only two choices of that draft was to get a move down deal or pick Mario Williams. That was it. All of the revesionist crap then about Mario, and now about Okoye ...is just that crap. They weren't going to take a WR. Or a Rb or a FS. They passed on FS four times last April. After the forth time, I got it .

Well the two guys the last time I checked weren't dead yet. Instant gratifacation is a fools dream. I'm sorry they've missed your comfort level on what a first rounder is supposed to be. But at least give them the season. I saw them both hustleing and giving their all today. Paper says we've got a good D-line coach. Just got to let it play out. I know one thing for a fact neither one of them is going anywhere for a few seasons. That's your starting two on the right side untill '10. Wanna jump up and down and stomp your feet and hold your breath for three years, be my guest. The Draft is not a science. It is an art. All I know for a fact is that Okoye has an elite first step and Mario is a 1%er. They may well bust out. But it won't be because they don't play RB or QB. They now have WR2 in the fold. Won't see him there untill '09. But after four seasons, they have him now. I'm just curious which WR in '06 and '07 you would of picked over Jones ? Deacon Jones got the crap beat out of him the first three years befor he got up to speed. I don't think it will take our two that long. They're just too good of athletes. Just need a six pack of patience.

Malloy
08-19-2007, 03:51 AM
... like I desperately wanted that girl in kindergarden to like me.

I hope this was when you yourself were in kindergarden :)

Texans_Chick
08-19-2007, 08:41 AM
i just wish mario played like a 1st pick :(

There are so many things ungood with this defense in 2007.

They are young.
They are questionably coached.
They are semi-patched worked together with maybe guys not playing in their best positions.
The veteran mentors are ND Kalu and Anthony Weaver and Jeff Zgonina.

Young guys, questionable coaching, no older dominate players as vets, and guys playing out of position = ew. (Hey, sounds like the 2002 offense).

Yeah, I'd like Mario to dominate like a first pick, but what I'd really like is to see something that makes me optimistic about the defense this year. The only thing you can really say right now is that this is only the second game of the preseason, and they are young and might have a bright future. (Maybe if they have a miserable enough time here, their bright future is with some other team).

BattleRedToro
08-19-2007, 08:52 AM
Deacon Jones got the crap beat out of him the first three years befor he got up to speed. I don't think it will take our two that long. They're just too good of athletes. Just need a six pack of patience.

Also, in Deacon Jones first year the Rams only had DE Lamar Lundy at that point. The next year they drafted DT Merlin Olsen and then in his third year the acquired DT Rosey Grier was acquired from the NY Giants to complete the original Fearsome Foursome. It should also be noted that although they rotated positions Jones normaly played LDE.

http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com/nfl/larams/FearsomeFoursome.jpg

jgl35
08-19-2007, 09:01 AM
Not trying to defend Mario, but a player similar to his physical attributes, Julius Peppers (who I might add has been in the league a lot longer) put up Mario-type numbers last night.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?season=2007&week=PRE2&game_id=29471

It was interesting to me to see one of the elite pass rushers in the league be a no-show. Though sadly for Mario, Peppers has shown what he can do in the regular season.

Maybe Mario is unmotivated in preseason, maybe he really is a bust, but I find it hard to label him a true bust until after year 3.

Peppers did not play against the Eagles.

pappy
08-19-2007, 09:04 AM
There are so many things ungood with this defense in 2007.

They are young.
They are questionably coached.
They are semi-patched worked together with maybe guys not playing in their best positions.
The veteran mentors are ND Kalu and Anthony Weaver and Jeff Zgonina.

Young guys, questionable coaching, no older dominate players as vets, and guys playing out of position = ew. (Hey, sounds like the 2002 offense).

Yeah, I'd like Mario to dominate like a first pick, but what I'd really like is to see something that makes me optimistic about the defense this year. The only thing you can really say right now is that this is only the second game of the preseason, and they are young and might have a bright future. (Maybe if they have a miserable enough time here, their bright future is with some other team).

Yes you got it ! The questionable coaching part is whats getting me . In the AZ game i saw shift right and then shift left defensive line stunts . Those are used as run defense , like in power counter offense line shifts . This against a team that has a pocket passer with sub 4.0 receivers ! All that does is give a quarterback a clear view of the field . Add to that scissor stunts that had MW swinging around inside after a tackle sealed off creating a hole in the middle . Mario looked like he was going into pass coverage before he managed to get to the hole , and of course the pass had been thrown by then . The only scissor stunt done correctly was done on the other side by thomas johnson for a sack .

Marcus
08-19-2007, 09:07 AM
There are so many things ungood with this defense in 2007.

They are young.
They are questionably coached.
They are semi-patched worked together with maybe guys not playing in their best positions.
The veteran mentors are ND Kalu and Anthony Weaver and Jeff Zgonina.

Young guys, questionable coaching, no older dominate players as vets, and guys playing out of position = ew. (Hey, sounds like the 2002 offense).

Yeah, I'd like Mario to dominate like a first pick, but what I'd really like is to see something that makes me optimistic about the defense this year. The only thing you can really say right now is that this is only the second game of the preseason, and they are young and might have a bright future. (Maybe if they have a miserable enough time here, their bright future is with some other team).

:um: Sure would like to hear where you're going with that one.

Runner
08-19-2007, 09:07 AM
I expected the entire defense to build on the famous "last ten games of 2006" when they had a decent run going. I've been disappointed so far, but I'm glad it's still preseason so I can hold out some hope that they are still working out the kinks.

The1ApplePie
08-19-2007, 09:10 AM
Waiting 3-4 years for D-Linemen to get good is ridiculous. One year, I can see it, but the position isn't hard enough to take 3-4 years to learn.

Brando
08-19-2007, 09:34 AM
Mario did not do much today, but let's make sure we focus on him given that our team sucks more than ever in the last six years. :rolleyes:

The most reasonable post I have read so far. I am happy with the team overall. Maybe people should stop focusing on just one player and enjoy the game instead of fretting.


The cup is not half empty as pessimists say
As far as he's sees, nothing's left in the cup
A whole cup full of nothing for him to indulge

I enjoyed every part of this team last night.

ArlingtonTexan
08-19-2007, 09:37 AM
Waiting 3-4 years for D-Linemen to get good is ridiculous. One year, I can see it, but the position isn't hard enough to take 3-4 years to learn.

with Mario and Okoye you see two opposite sides of the why it may take longer than expected on a DLmen.

Williams was used to just dominating players because he was simply bigger, stronger, and more athletic. He really did not have polished techinque, well maybe even no real technique. He can't just do that as a pro and now he has to learn. Also, most pass rushing types have quickness off the ball which is the one physical asset Mario does not have. Honestly, I think in the 4-3 he should play the LE or SDE and his best position maybe 3-4 DE. I would listen to an argue that he maybe better in you let him bulk up and play DT. For his skills RDE or the pure pass rushing position maybe his worse.

Okoye has the quick first step and technique, but literally needs to get physically stronger. The Texans probably need to pair him with a bigger run stuffing type at some point. I think it would be a mistake to play Okoye more 35 maybe 40 plays a game. don't think his body is mature enough to stand-up to the pounding. Simply Okoye needs a couple of years of weight training and general maturing of his body.

In the meantime, what you want to see from these guys is not just gettiing manhandled and flashing the pure skills that they were drafted for.

Brando
08-19-2007, 09:42 AM
How about that stop on 4th and 1? :d:

Runner
08-19-2007, 09:44 AM
Also, most pass rushing types have quickness off the ball which is the one physical asset Mario does not have.

Simply Okoye needs a couple of years of weight training and general maturing of his body.



The fly in the Mario ointment is that a big part of his upside were the explosiveness and quickness measurables at the combine. I think the quick first step is more of a mental aspect Marion hasn't displayed. If that even makes sense.

I agree that Okoye will need time for his body to mature into that of a man, not just an exceptionally strong teenager.

The1ApplePie
08-19-2007, 09:45 AM
with Mario and Okoye you see two opposite sides of the why it may take longer than expected on a DLmen.

Williams was used to just dominating players because he was simply bigger, stronger, and more athletic. He really did not have polished techinque, well maybe even no real technique. He can't just do that as a pro and now he has to learn. Also, most pass rushing types have quickness off the ball which is the one physical asset Mario does not have. Honestly, I think in the 4-3 he should play the LE or SDE and his best position maybe 3-4 DE. I would listen to an argue that he maybe better in you let him bulk up and play DT. For his skills RDE or the pure pass rushing position maybe his worse.

Okoye has the quick first step and technique, but literally needs to get physically stronger. The Texans probably need to pair him with a bigger run stuffing type at some point. I think it would be a mistake to play Okoye more 35 maybe 40 plays a game. don't think his body is mature enough to stand-up to the pounding. Simply Okoye needs a couple of years of weight training and general maturing of his body.

In the meantime, what you want to see from these guys is not just gettiing manhandled and flashing the pure skills that they were drafted for.

I agree. Both Mario and AO look like they would both be better 3-4 DEs than their current positions

HoustonFrog
08-19-2007, 09:45 AM
I dunno how many times I've got to post this sheet...one more apperently. Up untill that wensday, the day befor the Reggie Bush house stroy broke...no one offered a trade. No one. Mario was the best d-lineman on the board. Period. They were not going to take Bush.They put a phone call into the guy two days befor the story broke. And when they came back his demands were so outragous...the house story made Bush untouchable. They were not going to take Vincent. All you gotta do is watch the guy work a quarter and any sane person can see the guy can not pass the ball. Couldn't do it in highschool. Couldn't do it in college. And won't ever do it. Damn sure didn't do it last night. Their only two choices of that draft was to get a move down deal or pick Mario Williams. That was it. All of the revesionist crap then about Mario, and now about Okoye ...is just that crap. They weren't going to take a WR. Or a Rb or a FS. They passed on FS four times last April. After the forth time, I got it .

Well the two guys the last time I checked weren't dead yet. Instant gratifacation is a fools dream. I'm sorry they've missed your comfort level on what a first rounder is supposed to be. But at least give them the season. I saw them both hustleing and giving their all today. Paper says we've got a good D-line coach. Just got to let it play out. I know one thing for a fact neither one of them is going anywhere for a few seasons. That's your starting two on the right side untill '10. Wanna jump up and down and stomp your feet and hold your breath for three years, be my guest. The Draft is not a science. It is an art. All I know for a fact is that Okoye has an elite first step and Mario is a 1%er. They may well bust out. But it won't be because they don't play RB or QB. They now have WR2 in the fold. Won't see him there untill '09. But after four seasons, they have him now. I'm just curious which WR in '06 and '07 you would of picked over Jones ? Deacon Jones got the crap beat out of him the first three years befor he got up to speed. I don't think it will take our two that long. They're just too good of athletes. Just need a six pack of patience.

Who are you talking to? For the second post straight you have put words in my mouth and added more players to the mix. Please read my posts and comprehend them before heaping your b.s. to me. You lost all credibility when you started in on your VY stuff. He wasn't even the guy I wanted to take. As far as the trade offers, no one knows that as fact. That is what we were told. VY passed the ball against us and had the highest completion percentage his last year in college so I'll venture to say that the guy can throw and learn as time goes on. You are just showing that much of your talk revolves around the anti-VY sentiment. I'll say it for the hundreth time, there is a difference between "a #1 pick" and "the #1 pick." You can cry about being handcuffed with the pick all you want but it was still our choice.

I never said Okoye was a bust or anything in any post. I like the guy. He is young and raw. I think he could develop and liked what I saw in the college All-star games. When we drafted though, that wasn't my target. I like him though. I never said anything about Jones and love the guy. I never have called Mario a bust. I've only spelled out the things that make me and it seems others nervous. I even prefaced it by saying I need to see full games.

So PLEASE read before writing and stop trying to pick fights where there are none. I feel like this is a Carr thread again.

AND there has been guys the last few years that have made immediate impacts on the D-line from the drafts. For every Deacon Jones and Strahan there is a Kearse, Freeney, Ware, etc, etc. I even saw the Cowboys late round choice Spencer making some plays at the 3-4 LB yesterday. So I really don't like the arguments because all of us can find examples on both sides and make a good argument.

P.S.--Sorry to be harsh but my one pet peeve on the board is to be misquoted or to have words put in my mouth. I'm not sure where saying I need to see Mario more, I'm concerned about effort and I want to see him be the #1 guy can translate into: bust, I don't like Okoye, I don't like Jacoby, and I'm busting on the whole team.

Malloy
08-19-2007, 10:37 AM
How about that stop on 4th and 1? :d:

Nonsense, the sky is falling!!

Pantherstang84
08-19-2007, 10:59 AM
I don't need to do that. I can look at the guy and tell he's not playing well.

Stop feeding me this non-sense about how he really is, but he just hasn't played a full game and he will miraculously start playing ball "when it really counts"...ball players play ball....

You're in denial. His play was borderline terrible.

Ok. Before everyone starts piling on me. Let me say that I think our D line's play could have been better. But...

That statement above is gross exageration. It's not like Mario or Amobe are getting pushed all over the field.

Could they do a better job of getting of getting off of their blocks?

Sure.

I just watched the the 1s on my Tivo again. They are not getting blown off of the line of scrimmage. They are holding the point of attack.

I have a few questions for the critics.

Which 2 D linemen were everyone calling a bust last year?

Which 2 D linemen have everyone singing their praises this year?

How long have these 2 D linemen been in the NFL?

Were you one of the ones calling them a bust last year?

Carry on.

ObsiWan
08-19-2007, 11:01 AM
Also, in Deacon Jones first year the Rams only had DE Lamar Lundy at that point. The next year they drafted DT Merlin Olsen and then in his third year the acquired DT Rosey Grier was acquired from the NY Giants to complete the original Fearsome Foursome. It should also be noted that although they rotated positions Jones normaly played LDE.

http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com/nfl/larams/FearsomeFoursome.jpg

I love this picture!!

Pantherstang84
08-19-2007, 11:02 AM
I dunno how many times I've got to post this sheet...one more apperently. Up untill that wensday, the day befor the Reggie Bush house stroy broke...no one offered a trade. No one. Mario was the best d-lineman on the board. Period. They were not going to take Bush.They put a phone call into the guy two days befor the story broke. And when they came back his demands were so outragous...the house story made Bush untouchable. They were not going to take Vincent. All you gotta do is watch the guy work a quarter and any sane person can see the guy can not pass the ball. Couldn't do it in highschool. Couldn't do it in college. And won't ever do it. Damn sure didn't do it last night. Their only two choices of that draft was to get a move down deal or pick Mario Williams. That was it. All of the revesionist crap then about Mario, and now about Okoye ...is just that crap. They weren't going to take a WR. Or a Rb or a FS. They passed on FS four times last April. After the forth time, I got it .

Well the two guys the last time I checked weren't dead yet. Instant gratifacation is a fools dream. I'm sorry they've missed your comfort level on what a first rounder is supposed to be. But at least give them the season. I saw them both hustleing and giving their all today. Paper says we've got a good D-line coach. Just got to let it play out. I know one thing for a fact neither one of them is going anywhere for a few seasons. That's your starting two on the right side untill '10. Wanna jump up and down and stomp your feet and hold your breath for three years, be my guest. The Draft is not a science. It is an art. All I know for a fact is that Okoye has an elite first step and Mario is a 1%er. They may well bust out. But it won't be because they don't play RB or QB. They now have WR2 in the fold. Won't see him there untill '09. But after four seasons, they have him now. I'm just curious which WR in '06 and '07 you would of picked over Jones ? Deacon Jones got the crap beat out of him the first three years befor he got up to speed. I don't think it will take our two that long. They're just too good of athletes. Just need a six pack of patience.

I can't believe I'm saying this but...

This is the most well reasoned and thoughtful post in this thread.

Brando
08-19-2007, 11:08 AM
I can't believe I'm saying this but...

This is the most well reasoned and thoughtful post in this thread.

I agree.

Heath Shuler
08-19-2007, 11:19 AM
What concerns me is how slow of a jump Mario gets off the snap. While watching the game live I thought ND was offsides on a bunch of plays, but after watching the game again it was just Marioís slow jump. Iím also concerned about Mario taking some plays off.

Second Honeymoon
08-19-2007, 11:29 AM
I am concerned about Williams being a crappy RE for the next 3 years.

At the moment he sucks big time. Period. End of story.

It's preseason, but the early returns on Mario show that he is pretty much a worthless football player with no heart, no skills, and another workout warrior.

Lets hope the Texans can overcome the meddling owner who has hurt the team with the resigning of Carr and drafting of Mario.

Marcus
08-19-2007, 11:38 AM
After reading this thread, I'm going to go ahead and admit I'm probably being way too impatient. With the way that Babin is playing now, 3 years after being drafted, and the bust label that everyone put on him, it's probably a wise thing for me to wait a couple of years for Mario to develop the skills necessary to take it to the next level.

I guess that all the patience that I was preaching with Carr, and having nothing to show for it, is maybe translating to being impatient now.

He showed flashes last season with the bum foot, though. I don't know why I shouldn't expect to see a few flashes now.

Texans_Chick
08-19-2007, 11:45 AM
Re: Questionable defensive coaching

:um: Sure would like to hear where you're going with that one.

If you look at the backgrounds of the defensive coaching staff, it is not like we have the most dominant coaching staff in the league. It's been my belief that if we were to have an offensive minded head coach, I'd like to see a quality coach heading up the defense.

Richard Smith was not the Texans first choice. There is very little in his background that inspires confidence in his abilities.

The defensive line has its second set of coaches. The DC admits that they misused Mario on the line last year.

They said in the broadcast that the line gets to make its own line calls. But didn't discuss that any further. So basically a line composed of a 20 year old, a guy who came out as a true junior, someone that came of the practice squad last year, and an old guy get to figure out what they are going to do at the line.

Blind leading the blind? I'm not saying they are horrible, but I can't say I have a lot of confidence in the staff. I'd feel better about the development of our young players if there was a defensive staff with more of a track record running the show, developing and chosing players to fit their system, whatever the heck that is.

(The offensive side of the ball has its own inexperience, but at least Sherman has a lot of experience and the majority of the staff is on the same page with Kubiak from a philosophical standpoint. And though they weren't great in 2006, you could tell a coaching difference. The defense from a coaching perspective has shown me more bad than good, so that's where I'm coming from in saying that it is questionable).

Malloy
08-19-2007, 11:46 AM
After reading this thread, I'm going to go ahead and admit I'm probably being way too impatient. With the way that Babin is playing now, 3 years after being drafted, and the bust label that everyone put on him, it's probably a wise thing for me to wait a couple of years for Mario to develop the skills necessary to take it to the next level.

I guess that all the patience that I was preaching with Carr, and having nothing to show for it, is maybe translating to being impatient now.

He showed flashes last season with the bum foot, though. I don't know why I shouldn't expect to see a few flashes now.

hard to say, I keep trying to convince myself that the reason our D has been... less than exciting, is because it's pre-season and that we're keeping all the goodies in the box until the regular season starts. I'm not sure that is the case, but I hope it is :)

thunderkyss
08-19-2007, 11:50 AM
I'm really surprised by some of the posts I'm seeing in this thread.

Mario negatives from people I wouldn't have expected it from. But as I have not seen him play in this preseason, I have to take their words, because they are people I trust.

However, I saw alot of the things that made Mario our #1 pick last season, and I find it hard to believe his effort has dropped so far.

I was not disappointed with Mario in the least bit all of last season, & I'm still optomistic, that he'll be one of the premier defensive players in the league for a long time to come.

My excuse for why we aren't seeing those numbers translate to the stat sheet??

As a whole, our defense is still pretty young. Our defensive line more so. Mario, Maddox, TJ, Amobi, Babin... our best defensive lineman, are all what 3 years or less in this league??

Had Mario gone to Tampa Bay with Simeon Rice, and Warren Sapp, we'd be crying that we didn't take him. Or if He went to play in Philadelphia, opposite Jevon Kearse, and swapping inside/outside duties with Darren Howard, we'd drool over a player that could do what Mario would do on that team.

OR if he played opposite Dwight Freeney, we wouldn't question Indy's dominance of the AFC South.

Our best defensive lineman is an undersized DE we've been trying to get to play LB for most of his professional career.

On this team, It's going to take a little time before Mario can dominate. That's just the way it is.

Carr Bombed
08-19-2007, 12:07 PM
Its only preseason, so I'm not really worried yet, but just rather annoyed. If were going into week three of the regular season and Mario is still doing his "invisible man" act.........thats when I'll start to get upset.

Marcus
08-19-2007, 12:16 PM
hard to say, I keep trying to convince myself that the reason our D has been... less than exciting, is because it's pre-season and that we're keeping all the goodies in the box until the regular season starts. I'm not sure that is the case, but I hope it is :)

Well, maybe I'm oversimplifying things, but I wanted to see the level of play of the defensive linemen without blitzes and stunts. Not happy with what I'm seeing.

Blitzes and stunts are meant to compliment the pass rush, not to make up for the lack of. Game film with a good offensive co-ordinator can sniff out the difference and take advantage of it.

ArlingtonTexan
08-19-2007, 12:22 PM
The fly in the Mario ointment is that a big part of his upside were the explosiveness and quickness measurables at the combine. I think the quick first step is more of a mental aspect Marion hasn't displayed. If that even makes sense.

I agree that Okoye will need time for his body to mature into that of a man, not just an exceptionally strong teenager.

Your comments on Mario make perfect sense. Because he is thinking and not merely reacting that gap is the difference between using the quickness that the tests show he has and what we have seen on the field.

Vinny
08-19-2007, 12:37 PM
Not trying to defend Mario, but a player similar to his physical attributes, Julius Peppers (who I might add has been in the league a lot longer) put up Mario-type numbers last night.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?season=2007&week=PRE2&game_id=29471

It was interesting to me to see one of the elite pass rushers in the league be a no-show. Though sadly for Mario, Peppers has shown what he can do in the regular season.

Maybe Mario is unmotivated in preseason, maybe he really is a bust, but I find it hard to label him a true bust until after year 3.

Peppers did not play against the Eagles.

lol...hilarious

The unintentional humor on message boards is the best part sometimes. Reminds me of those espn commercials with the guys talking out of their keysters

Pantherstang84
08-19-2007, 12:58 PM
Re: Questionable defensive coaching



If you look at the backgrounds of the defensive coaching staff, it is not like we have the most dominant coaching staff in the league. It's been my belief that if we were to have an offensive minded head coach, I'd like to see a quality coach heading up the defense.

Richard Smith was not the Texans first choice. There is very little in his background that inspires confidence in his abilities.

The defensive line has its second set of coaches. The DC admits that they misused Mario on the line last year.

They said in the broadcast that the line gets to make its own line calls. But didn't discuss that any further. So basically a line composed of a 20 year old, a guy who came out as a true junior, someone that came of the practice squad last year, and an old guy get to figure out what they are going to do at the line.

Blind leading the blind? I'm not saying they are horrible, but I can't say I have a lot of confidence in the staff. I'd feel better about the development of our young players if there was a defensive staff with more of a track record running the show, developing and chosing players to fit their system, whatever the heck that is.

(The offensive side of the ball has its own inexperience, but at least Sherman has a lot of experience and the majority of the staff is on the same page with Kubiak from a philosophical standpoint. And though they weren't great in 2006, you could tell a coaching difference. The defense from a coaching perspective has shown me more bad than good, so that's where I'm coming from in saying that it is questionable).

You make some excellent points about the defensive staff. I have to admit. I asked, " Richard Who?" when the coaching staff was put together last year. However, they are the coaching staff and we can only hope they know what they are doing.

ObsiWan
08-19-2007, 01:08 PM
Well, maybe I'm oversimplifying things, but I wanted to see the level of play of the defensive linemen without blitzes and stunts. Not happy with what I'm seeing.

Blitzes and stunts are meant to compliment the pass rush, not to make up for the lack of. Game film with a good offensive co-ordinator can sniff out the difference and take advantage of it.

You might be right about this but I'd always heard very different. I'd heard that teams that were without dominant D-linemen had to blitz or use stunts in order to disguise/hide those personnel weaknesses. I hear announcers and analysts say all the time that its considered a luxury to have a dominant pass rush from your front four and be able to drop seven back into coverage and feel good that the opposing QB won't "have all day" to throw.

I can't wait for the day that our D-line gives our defense that "luxury". But we obviously aren't there yet.

Vinny
08-19-2007, 01:11 PM
You might be right about this but I'd always heard very different. I'd heard that teams that were without dominant D-linemen had to blitz or use stunts in order to disguise/hide those personnel weaknesses. I hear announcers and analysts say all the time that its considered a luxury to have a dominant pass rush from your front four and be able to drop seven back into coverage and feel good that the opposing QB won't "have all day" to throw.

I can't wait for the day that our D-line gives our defense that "luxury". But we obviously aren't there yet.you run stunts for the same reason you run counters and misdirection on offense. You have to mix it up and not become predictable....players are too good in this league to just do the same things over and over.

ObsiWan
08-19-2007, 01:15 PM
You make some excellent points about the defensive staff. I have to admit. I asked, " Richard Who?" when the coaching staff was put together last year. However, they are the coaching staff and we can only hope they know what they are doing.

Richard Smith wasn't Kubiak's first choice. I forgot who it was, someone on a team out west, IIRC. Maybe TC remembers. But whoever it was, wasn't allowed to talk to us by his team.

Vinny
08-19-2007, 01:18 PM
Richard Smith wasn't Kubiak's first choice. I forgot who it was, someone on a team out west, IIRC. Maybe TC remembers. But whoever it was, wasn't allowed to talk to us by his team.Frank Bush...and we signed him this offseason. I think this may be Frank Bush's defense next season. I don't anticipate Smith being around next year.

Wolf
08-19-2007, 01:19 PM
Richard Smith wasn't Kubiak's first choice. I forgot who it was, someone on a team out west, IIRC. Maybe TC remembers. But whoever it was, wasn't allowed to talk to us by his team.

frank bush comes to mind that Kubiak wanted yet last season they wouldn't let him talk to us.

ObsiWan
08-19-2007, 01:29 PM
you run stunts for the same reason you run counters and misdirection on offense. You have to mix it up and not become predictable....players are too good in this league to just do the same things over and over.

No argument from me on that. It seems like some of us expect Mario, et. al. to just run over the opposing O-linemen. Like you said, the players are too good for that.

And I have to admit, I get tired of seeing Mario "boxing" with the tackles and not even making said tackle give ground. If the tackle engages Mario (or whoever) and gets him involved in a game of pattycake for 2-3 seconds, then the tackle has won that battle because the play has most likely moved past him.

I don't know if that is lack of effort as some have said or lack of understanding that he's wasting time by "boxing" - but it needs to be fixed.

Lucky
08-19-2007, 01:30 PM
How many sacks do you guys think Mario left on the table? I plan on looking at the recording later, but I don't remember a ton of sack opportunities on Leinart.

Thanks to the NFL Network, I've been able to watch a lot of preseason games, thus far. And I've noticed that the refs have swallowed their whistle on a ton of offensive holding. I went back and looked at the stats, and that seemed to bear out in the sack totals. This weeks games averaged about 4.3 sacks per game, slightly below average. When you take away a couple of games where the Pats and the Packers went blitz crazy, the numbers go down to around 3.5. I have a feeling that when I watch the replay on this game, I'll see a ton of no calls on both sides of the ball. Whether that will play out this way in the regular season is TBD.

Vinny
08-19-2007, 01:34 PM
How many sacks do you guys think Mario left on the table? I plan on looking at the recording later, but I don't remember a ton of sack opportunities on Leinart.


to me it's not a matter of getting a sack...it's a matter of beating your man in some way on any given play. I haven't seen him win any individual battles....and he is supposed to be a "freak" that has elite speed and strength....I just don't see it when he plays.

The Dream
08-19-2007, 01:36 PM
Mario just looks like he isn't strong enough to be a d-lineman in the NFL....I can count the number of times that I've actually seen the guy even get the slightest penetration off the line........to put it plain and simple...he looks weak.

HoustonFrog
08-19-2007, 01:39 PM
to me it's not a matter of getting a sack...it's a matter of beating your man in some way on any given play. I haven't seen him win any individual battles....and he is supposed to be a "freak" that has elite speed and strength....I just don't see it when he plays.

I agree with you here. I'm not especially worried about sack numbers per se as much as seeing him come off the edge and and force some plays...mess up the other teams timing.

Marcus
08-19-2007, 01:39 PM
No argument from me on that. It seems like some of us expect Mario, et. al. to just run over the opposing O-linemen. Like you said, the players are too good for that.

And I have to admit, I get tired of seeing Mario "boxing" with the tackles and not even making said tackle give ground. If the tackle engages Mario (or whoever) and gets him involved in a game of pattycake for 2-3 seconds, then the tackle has won that battle because the play has most likely moved past him.

I don't know if that is lack of effort as some have said or lack of understanding that he's wasting time by "boxing" - but it needs to be fixed.

More like chicken-fighting rather than boxing.

I dunno . . what I don't see, is any sort of an effective spin-move. Who knows, maybe he's saving that for the regular season. :shrug: :rolleyes:

Second Honeymoon
08-19-2007, 01:40 PM
I'm really surprised by some of the posts I'm seeing in this thread.

Mario negatives from people I wouldn't have expected it from. But as I have not seen him play in this preseason, I have to take their words, because they are people I trust.

However, I saw alot of the things that made Mario our #1 pick last season, and I find it hard to believe his effort has dropped so far.

I was not disappointed with Mario in the least bit all of last season, & I'm still optomistic, that he'll be one of the premier defensive players in the league for a long time to come.

My excuse for why we aren't seeing those numbers translate to the stat sheet??

As a whole, our defense is still pretty young. Our defensive line more so. Mario, Maddox, TJ, Amobi, Babin... our best defensive lineman, are all what 3 years or less in this league??

Had Mario gone to Tampa Bay with Simeon Rice, and Warren Sapp, we'd be crying that we didn't take him. Or if He went to play in Philadelphia, opposite Jevon Kearse, and swapping inside/outside duties with Darren Howard, we'd drool over a player that could do what Mario would do on that team.

OR if he played opposite Dwight Freeney, we wouldn't question Indy's dominance of the AFC South.

Our best defensive lineman is an undersized DE we've been trying to get to play LB for most of his professional career.

On this team, It's going to take a little time before Mario can dominate. That's just the way it is.

welcome back. why not try and bring Simeon Rice to town to help our DL and possibly show Mario some veteran tricks and techniques.

i want mario to be good and think he has all the physical tools to do so, I just don't know if he has the drive and love for football/competition that it takes. at the end of every play he is normally standing upright but away from the action. he doesnt disengage from blockers and is happy just doing the 2step with his blocker making no impact. he needs a veteran or a coach to get in his face and let this guy no that his level of effort is unacceptable.

maybe they are 'saving' him for the regular season and not running many stunts and he is just trying to stay injury-free. at some point, Mario is what he is. Let's hope he doesn't end up being what he currently is, because that would be a disaster of biblical proportions.

Second Honeymoon
08-19-2007, 01:42 PM
No argument from me on that. It seems like some of us expect Mario, et. al. to just run over the opposing O-linemen. Like you said, the players are too good for that.

And I have to admit, I get tired of seeing Mario "boxing" with the tackles and not even making said tackle give ground. If the tackle engages Mario (or whoever) and gets him involved in a game of pattycake for 2-3 seconds, then the tackle has won that battle because the play has most likely moved past him.
I don't know if that is lack of effort as some have said or lack of understanding that he's wasting time by "boxing" - but it needs to be fixed.

quoted for truth. its getting REALLY old.

Second Honeymoon
08-19-2007, 01:45 PM
How many sacks do you guys think Mario left on the table? I plan on looking at the recording later, but I don't remember a ton of sack opportunities on Leinart.

Thanks to the NFL Network, I've been able to watch a lot of preseason games, thus far. And I've noticed that the refs have swallowed their whistle on a ton of offensive holding. I went back and looked at the stats, and that seemed to bear out in the sack totals. This weeks games averaged about 4.3 sacks per game, slightly below average. When you take away a couple of games where the Pats and the Packers went blitz crazy, the numbers go down to around 3.5. I have a feeling that when I watch the replay on this game, I'll see a ton of no calls on both sides of the ball. Whether that will play out this way in the regular season is TBD.

gotta agree 100% with you on that one. mario's level of effort has been bad but he has been held by many of the OL and TE that he has 'battled'. most of the sacks that I have seen in the preseason on NFLN have been from delayed blitzes by DBs coming free. not many DL are getting around the corner and hitting the QB so far in most of the games I have seen (way too many...getting burned out on preseason)

quicksilver
08-19-2007, 01:47 PM
I fear that this situation is feeding itself. Big time.

Everyone but Bush and Franklin, with healthy dose of N.D.Kalu, need to leave Mario the hell alone. Twenty voices in his ear can't do anything but breed doubt and confusion. He doesn't necessarily need someone in his face--different people respond to different stimuli. Ask Parcells. Ask any competent school teacher.

FirstTexansFan
08-19-2007, 01:53 PM
Has the regular season begun yet? Cause all this Negative Nancy talk has me wanting to buy the lot of you, a box of Midol. Start screaming and whining when it counts :)

Texans_Chick
08-19-2007, 01:56 PM
Frank Bush...and we signed him this offseason. I think this may be Frank Bush's defense next season. I don't anticipate Smith being around next year.

Even if the Frank Bush-Richard Smith tandem is what Kubiak wanted as his first choice last year, there is nothing with them that makes me think--yeah, these are the guys I want running my defense.

Jethro Franklin is the defensive line coach. (with an assist from Bush) He got canned from the Tampa Bay. Rod Marinelli was their defensive line coach, then he left for Detroit. Then Franklin came from USC, and then got canned by the Bucs after their D line had a crap pass rush--including the Bucs lowest sack totals since 1995. (He coached the line at GB between 2000-2004). He was signed for a two year contract with TB, but was canned after one year.

Sometimes fans don't know all the reasons why particular guys were picked to be coaches, but from what I've seen, I've never been comfortable with this staff having a consistant proven defensive philosophy.

Some years there are some really good coaches available to be an assistant. Last year wasn't the bestest year to pick.

The Dream
08-19-2007, 02:00 PM
Has the regular season begun yet? Cause all this Negative Nancy talk has me wanting to buy the lot of you, a box of Midol. Start screaming and whining when it counts

no, but some these people sticking up for Mario will be the first to point a finger at everything VY is doing in the preseason....peoples main beef is that Mario showed us close to nothing last year, and although it is preseason it would be nice to actually get past the O-Line once when you were our # 1 draft pick....the guy is looking worst than avg. out there on the field.

Goldensilence
08-19-2007, 02:19 PM
It's only preseason. Lay off the trigger fingers.

threetoedpeete- excellent posts.

htexfan
08-19-2007, 02:35 PM
I call it like I see it. Mario sucks right now. He may come around some day but he should have a better showing than what he has had so far. For everyone saying to wait for the regular season I say bs. He should be showing way more effort right now. True competitors hate getting beat at anything and will do what ever it takes to get better. Just look how Jacoby carries himself. I watched him on the sidelines during the Cardinals game right after he went up for the jump ball in the endzone. He didnt come down with it but he was big time upset about it. Everything about him tells me he is a competitor. I just don't know about Mario. Maybe if he had someone competing with him for his starting position he would perform. I don't believe the team will bench him because of what they paid for him until they have a legit replacement. I agree with giving Mario time but lets see some kind of improvement here. He knows he has the job thats his problem!

The1ApplePie
08-19-2007, 02:54 PM
I saw Mario attempt a swim move and fall on his face at least twice, maybe 3 times. Shows a guy that got by in his career by being able to just shove guys over because of physical superiority. Now, that he is probably weaker than 90% of the guys he goes against, he has no clue what to do.

Double Barrel
08-19-2007, 02:59 PM
I think I am being unfair to Mario when it's really the coaching staff's fault.

Mario is a good football player, but he's being asked to do something he's not suited for.

aye yi yi...not that excuse...errrr....'reason' again! :gun:

The team has stunk the past five years and the product this year is visibly different yet we continue to ***** and moan.

Maybe y'all have some sort of complex in Houston due to Bud Adams or maybe the 1993 playoff game against the Bills still haunts everyone. It is very weird in my opinion. I see bitching, but I see no critique on the player in question.

We won. Our rookie returned a punt for a TD. The Oline played well. Schaub and Sage played with poise. Green looked pretty good. Turk started. Lastly, Mario showed nothing but attacking the offensive lineman's numbers in front of him, again.

Meaningless outcome. Individual performances in a glorified scrimmage are all these games are worth at the end of the day.

And with Mario, it was said best by Vinny:

to me it's not a matter of getting a sack...it's a matter of beating your man in some way on any given play. I haven't seen him win any individual battles....and he is supposed to be a "freak" that has elite speed and strength....I just don't see it when he plays.

I'm not jumping off cliffs or yelling bust, but this take hits the nail on the head. I find it hard to believe that what we see in pre-season is not an indication of sorts. If Mario is failing to beat his man even once, I do not see some magical switch that gets flipped for regular season and he suddenly turns into The Beast.

real
08-19-2007, 04:11 PM
That statement above is gross exageration.


I ddon't think it was.

There was one play where MArio rushed up field and litterally fell down and slid on his arse...He looked awful on that particular play...Terrible technique...Terrible agility....He just looked awful...

On other plays I found myslef looking at Mario being one of the furthest D-linemen from the QB...Looking over the O-linemens head like a guy looking over a wall trying to see what was going on "over there"....


Which 2 D linemen were everyone calling a bust last year?

Which 2 D linemen have everyone singing their praises this year?


You can check my post history...

I've always said I though Travis Johnson was a good ball player and I've always wanted Babin to get more time on the field because of his pass rushing...really...go back and check...

nice try though...

real
08-19-2007, 04:14 PM
. I think the quick first step is more of a mental aspect Marion hasn't displayed. If that even makes sense.

I think it's part mental part physical...

Pantherstang84
08-19-2007, 04:22 PM
I ddon't think it was.

I do.


You can check my post history...

I don't want to. Despite using your exagerration as the example, the post was directed at all of the Mario whiners.


nice try though...

Thank you.

Lucky
08-19-2007, 04:25 PM
I think it's part mental part physical...

What about the metaphysical aspect?

Ask for the QB sack.
Believe you will get the QB sack.
Collect the QB sack.

It's as easy as A-B-C. I'm shocked that QBs aren't sacked on every play, it's so easy.

ObsiWan
08-19-2007, 05:05 PM
I saw Mario attempt a swim move and fall on his face at least twice, maybe 3 times. Shows a guy that got by in his career by being able to just shove guys over because of physical superiority. Now, that he is probably weaker than 90% of the guys he goes against, he has no clue what to do.

I think we're still seeing this (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/players/scouting?statsId=7750) Mario...
(from Scouts Inc.)


Weaknesses: Technique is still unpolished. He has a tendency to play too high at times. Runs around too many blocks and takes himself out of position at times, as a result. He needs to do a better job of using his long arms and hands to keep separation from blockers. He takes too long to disengage from blocks and will get frustrated by the double team too often. His motor runs hot-and-cold. He played with more intensity during the second-half of his junior season but still took far too many plays off throughout 2005.


Now this info was available at the time of the draft; in fact, some guys even mentioned it. So should we be mad at Mario for still being Mario? Or should we be mad at the scouting dept., Casserly, et. al. for not doing enough homework??

I'm just askin'?

Wolf
08-19-2007, 05:13 PM
I think it's part mental part physical...

like Yogi said
"Ninety percent of this game is half mental."

Second Honeymoon
08-19-2007, 05:25 PM
I think we're still seeing this (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/players/scouting?statsId=7750) Mario...
(from Scouts Inc.)



Now this info was available at the time of the draft; in fact, some guys even mentioned it. So should we be mad at Mario for still being Mario? Or should we be mad at the scouting dept., Casserly, et. al. for not doing enough homework??
I'm just askin'?

personally I blame McNair and Kubiak. Casserley wanted to draft Bush. Casserley liked Mario but even he wasn't stupid enough to decide to Mario over Bush. Only someone as meddling as McNair could greenlight an idea that horrible...and Kubiak gets blame for being too weak to demand that we draft the best player available and not just the cleanest or most signable. At the end of the day, its all about McNair being ignorant, stubborn, and cheap and not wanting Bush after his family's housing situation during his USC time.

utahmark
08-19-2007, 06:41 PM
personally I blame McNair and Kubiak. Casserley wanted to draft Bush. Casserley liked Mario but even he wasn't stupid enough to decide to Mario over Bush. Only someone as meddling as McNair could greenlight an idea that horrible...and Kubiak gets blame for being too weak to demand that we draft the best player available and not just the cleanest or most signable. At the end of the day, its all about McNair being ignorant, stubborn, and cheap and not wanting Bush after his family's housing situation during his USC time.


i wish i had 1/10 the inside info you seem to have.

Napa Auto Parts
08-19-2007, 09:45 PM
i really hope we dont have another David Carr situation brewing with Mario Williams we all want him to do good but he sure isn't helping his case @ all.

BattleRedToro
08-20-2007, 06:32 AM
Even if the Frank Bush-Richard Smith tandem is what Kubiak wanted as his first choice last year, there is nothing with them that makes me think--yeah, these are the guys I want running my defense.

Jethro Franklin is the defensive line coach. (with an assist from Bush) He got canned from the Tampa Bay. Rod Marinelli was their defensive line coach, then he left for Detroit. Then Franklin came from USC, and then got canned by the Bucs after their D line had a crap pass rush--including the Bucs lowest sack totals since 1995. (He coached the line at GB between 2000-2004). He was signed for a two year contract with TB, but was canned after one year.

Sometimes fans don't know all the reasons why particular guys were picked to be coaches, but from what I've seen, I've never been comfortable with this staff having a consistant proven defensive philosophy.

Some years there are some really good coaches available to be an assistant. Last year wasn't the bestest year to pick.

There was one that you must know about since you and I have discussed this on other threads. That one being Jim Bates, a highly respected Defensive Coordinator with ties to Mike Sherman, or at the least Green Bay, and now with ties to Denver as well since he has been hired this year as Mike Shanahan's new Defensive Coordinator. I remember the objection to him being brought in being about money. With coaches salaries not counting towards the salary cap it makes me sick to think that the Texans lost out on a much more qualified Defensive Coordinator then Richard Smith, or even Frank Bush for that matter, over money.

Another defensive-minded coach with ties to both Gary Kubiak and Mike Sherman, that has come to my mind many times is former Texas A&M Head Coach R.C. Slocum. Say what you will about his overly predictable offenses when he was the ATM Head Coach, but one thing was certain he could run a hell of a good defense. I know some are going to say but he was only a college coach and he won't be able to translate that success to the NFL. Those people probably don't realize that Marty Schottenheimer came to R.C. Slocum before to get pointers on running defense.

maddogmrb
08-20-2007, 08:51 AM
Guys and gals I think WE HAVE TO ADMIT that Mario is not as good as he should be for the #1 overall pick in the draft and we need to start managing our expectations of him accordingly.

It is not his fault that he was drafted that highly and I'm sure he is doing the best that he can. We all know the draft is a crap shoot and I believe it is obvious that MW just is NOT the impact player we all hoped he would be.

Now let's just sit back and admit he was not worthy of the #1 pick, not a knock on him but, those who thought he was, and allow him to develop into a solid, not spectacular DE.

EVERYBODY is going to say that we should not say ANYTHING about Amobi because he is so young and he has only had 2 pre-season games.

But, as the #10 draft pick, he SHOULD show SOMETHING, ala Adam Carriker, and others. We have street FA's who show us more and with HIS PEDIGREE we should have seen something.

Again, it is not his fault we drafted him as highly as we did, it is the FO and coaching staff. So far, he has pretty much been overmatched at DT and he hasn't really shown anything for us to feel he warranted the #10 pick in the draft.

So, I believe we need to adjust our expectations of AO, too. I don't think he will ever be a very good DT in this league. In fact, I believe they need to put him at DE, leave him there, play him sparingly, and maybe he will develop into a good pash rushing DE in 2-4 years.

Bottom line is that MW and AO are what they are and we can't make them stars because of where they were drafted. It has to come from them and I just don't see it on the field.

Mr teX
08-20-2007, 09:00 AM
You can clearly see he's thinking too much out there which goes back to what Xtru... said in a previous mario thread about his mental game.

He's yet to find that position he's comfortable in where he can play the run & pass equally effective.

He was held ALOT but d-linemen get held pretty much every play... hopefully we get those calls during the regular season.

In all fairness to him though, the d-line as a whole ain't doing much. If Mario's going to be doubled alot, other guys MUST step up to take the heat off of him.

All in all, i'm looking at his body of work last year as a rookie, & i have a hard time believing that he'll be worse than that, I predicted about 8.5 sacks a while ago. I believe In all of the preseason last year, he only had 1 play where he stood out against the rams so i'm not going to panic just yet. Could he have Jeff Bagwell syndrome where he doesn't perform well in the preseason but turns it up a bit in the regular season? Some of us can only hope.

Kaiser Toro
08-20-2007, 09:15 AM
Guys and gals I think WE HAVE TO ADMIT that Mario is not as good as he should be for the #1 overall pick in the draft and we need to start managing our expectations of him accordingly.

It is not his fault that he was drafted that highly and I'm sure he is doing the best that he can. We all know the draft is a crap shoot and I believe it is obvious that MW just is NOT the impact player we all hoped he would be.

Now let's just sit back and admit he was not worthy of the #1 pick, not a knock on him but, those who thought he was, and allow him to develop into a solid, not spectacular DE.

EVERYBODY is going to say that we should not say ANYTHING about Amobi because he is so young and he has only had 2 pre-season games.

But, as the #10 draft pick, he SHOULD show SOMETHING, ala Adam Carriker, and others. We have street FA's who show us more and with HIS PEDIGREE we should have seen something.

Again, it is not his fault we drafted him as highly as we did, it is the FO and coaching staff. So far, he has pretty much been overmatched at DT and he hasn't really shown anything for us to feel he warranted the #10 pick in the draft.

So, I believe we need to adjust our expectations of AO, too. I don't think he will ever be a very good DT in this league. In fact, I believe they need to put him at DE, leave him there, play him sparingly, and maybe he will develop into a good pash rushing DE in 2-4 years.

Bottom line is that MW and AO are what they are and we can't make them stars because of where they were drafted. It has to come from them and I just don't see it on the field.

Could be the worst post I have seen in years.

real
08-20-2007, 09:16 AM
Guys and gals I think WE HAVE TO ADMIT that Mario is not as good as he should be for the #1 overall pick in the draft and we need to start managing our expectations of him accordingly.

It is not his fault that he was drafted that highly and I'm sure he is doing the best that he can. We all know the draft is a crap shoot and I believe it is obvious that MW just is NOT the impact player we all hoped he would be.

Now let's just sit back and admit he was not worthy of the #1 pick, not a knock on him but, those who thought he was, and allow him to develop into a solid, not spectacular DE.

EVERYBODY is going to say that we should not say ANYTHING about Amobi because he is so young and he has only had 2 pre-season games.

But, as the #10 draft pick, he SHOULD show SOMETHING, ala Adam Carriker, and others. We have street FA's who show us more and with HIS PEDIGREE we should have seen something.

Again, it is not his fault we drafted him as highly as we did, it is the FO and coaching staff. So far, he has pretty much been overmatched at DT and he hasn't really shown anything for us to feel he warranted the #10 pick in the draft.

So, I believe we need to adjust our expectations of AO, too. I don't think he will ever be a very good DT in this league. In fact, I believe they need to put him at DE, leave him there, play him sparingly, and maybe he will develop into a good pash rushing DE in 2-4 years.

Bottom line is that MW and AO are what they are and we can't make them stars because of where they were drafted. It has to come from them and I just don't see it on the field.

What a terrible outlook on life...

It must be a dark and grim place you live in....


I'm not sure what would cause you to believe that Mario and Amobi "can't" be good ball players....

There have been so many variations of successful athletes in every sporting event that it's almost asanine to suggest that a player that has made it that far "can't" be successful....You have your athletes that aren't that bright but are athletic specimens that have been successful, and then you have your really smart and instinctive guys that didn't have an athletic prowess who have been successful...They can "do it", but they just need to find the right combination...Mario and Amobi's problems are on the totally opposite end of the spectrum...Amobi needs to get stronger...If you really watch the kid and keep an eye on the little things he does you can see a kid with a great motor...I repeat...great....good feet...good hands...and he's heady...he's aware of the situation and what is going on as far as the play is concerned...The guy is 20 yrs. old...By time he is 22 1/2 he will be one of the premier DT's in this leauge if he can stay healthy.....Mario..his mental approach is out of whack...I knew that when he gave his answer to whether or not he hates his opponents...

When I see Mario I don't see a player who's not trying hard, but I do see a player who doesn't want it...He doesn't look thirsty for the QB's sweat...That's something hard to overcome as a player because that's just something that normally comes naturally....But that doesn't mean he can't be an effective football player...

And with A.O. I just flat out disagree...I think the guy is going to be stud...JMO....:)

HoustonFrog
08-20-2007, 09:21 AM
What a terrible outlook on life...

It must be a dark and grim place you live in....



:user: Sorry, this just made me laugh. It was a sad post.

Cjeremy635
08-20-2007, 09:22 AM
I'm not freakin' out yet......just a little nervous. I didn't read through all these pages, so I don't know if it was posted yet, but these are the things I noticed. I watched the game twice:

1) Mario was held a lot, but it was never called and he should have tried harder to beat it.
2) He was on the ground way too often. He would run to engage the offensive lineman, slip, and fall on his rear. This automatically took him out of the play. I saw this way too much.
3) On the snap, he would run in and look, then nothing would happen so he would engage his blocker in front of him. I saw this constantly. It was really weird to see. There wasn't much effort on his part, atleast what I saw. Without seeing it, this item is hard to explain.
4) Wrong decisions. I saw on a few plays that he must have read inside run, went that way and the ball went around where he should have been at. I don't think it went that way because he forced it to either.

Hopefully he will get better over these last 2 games and maybe we will see more from him when the defense actually starts game planning. Who knows, but there are way too many positives for me to look forward to than to worry about his play or the play of a few others. :texflag:

HuttoKarl
08-20-2007, 09:25 AM
Defensive Linemen usually take a couple of years to adjust. That is pretty much fact. We have yet to throw a blitz in there to free things up for the D-Line as well. It is still too early to call anyone a bust or lose sleep over the lack of sacks in these preseason games. How many times did Chicago or Arizona get a sack on Schaub or Sage? Are there fans up in arms about their defensive players?

HJam72
08-20-2007, 09:31 AM
Defensive Linemen usually take a couple of years to adjust. That is pretty much fact. We have yet to throw a blitz in there to free things up for the D-Line as well. It is still too early to call anyone a bust or lose sleep over the lack of sacks in these preseason games. How many times did Chicago or Arizona get a sack on Schaub or Sage? Are there fans up in arms about their defensive players?

I don't know, but probably, lol. They're probably posting, "The Texans have the worst O-line in forever and we didn't get sacks!" :specnatz:

I keep thinking about that too. I think our O is gonna give more up when it counts, and it stands to reason that our D will get more. I think Mario will have 6 or 7 this year--an improvement, but not enough to make us happy. Course, I'll change my mind one way or another after the Cowboys game.

Mr. White
08-20-2007, 09:34 AM
I read the first few pages and it looks like the main excuse for the D-Line is that they were getting held.

Here's what I know about holding. I know there are plenty other guys that probably know more. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

All D-Linemen get held. The O-Linemen only get called for it when they are grabbing the guy's outside shoulder. In other words, they only get called for it when they make it too obvious. It's on the D-Lineman to find a way to beat the hold.

From HBO's "Hard Knocks."
Rookie Turk McBride: "What do you do when guys are holding you and pulling you down?"
Veteran Jared Allen: "Kick 'em."

Mr teX
08-20-2007, 09:39 AM
Defensive Linemen usually take a couple of years to adjust. That is pretty much fact. We have yet to throw a blitz in there to free things up for the D-Line as well. It is still too early to call anyone a bust or lose sleep over the lack of sacks in these preseason games. How many times did Chicago or Arizona get a sack on Schaub or Sage? Are there fans up in arms about their defensive players?

Not true at all. I can remember at least 1 instance where CC & a CB came in on a blitz & basically stopped at the line once someone got in front of them.

Mr. White
08-20-2007, 09:43 AM
In respect to the D-Line, one thing also to consider is that the Texans may be drafting guys that might be physically gifted, but not yet emotionally mature.

The guys that they're going up against know every trick in the book.

I think that it's too much to expect from a 19 or a 21 year-old to instantly know how to play against experienced O-Linemen.

By the time that the NFL slows down enough for them, it might be a contract year.

FirstTexansFan
08-20-2007, 09:47 AM
:stirpot: <--Me cooking a big of batch of crow....it'll have to simmer at least 2yrs, but alot of you will be eating a portion, I'm making my guest list right now....:)

Lucky
08-20-2007, 09:56 AM
All D-Linemen get held. The O-Linemen only get called for it when they are grabbing the guy's outside shoulder. In other words, they only get called for it when they make it too obvious. It's on the D-Lineman to find a way to beat the hold.
You're right in that Mario needs to beat the hold. He needs to become better at hand fighting. I'd suggest martial arts training. Too bad Mr. Miyagi is no longer around.

http://www.l8k.com.ar/blog/imagenes/kk2_004.jpg

But, Mario was blatantly held on numerous occasions. On Leinart's touchdown throw, Gandy had a fist full of jersey. On another play, you can see Kalu lifting Mario's jersey back over his shoulder pad. To be fair, the refs weren't calling holding on either side of the ball.

Another suggestion would be for Mario to invest in some custom fit jerseys. It needs to fit tighter so that the blockers can't grab it so easily. I think he can afford that.

gjmac2
08-20-2007, 09:59 AM
I think I am being unfair to Mario when it's really the coaching staff's fault.

Mario is a good football player, but he's being asked to do something he's not suited for.

He's being asked to be THAT guy who provides pressure from the edge, and to date I have not seen anything from Mario's on field performances that suggest he's capable of doing so.

The guy should be playing Strong side DE. Not Weak side, or "RDE" as some would say.

Interesting, xtruroyaltyx, I had not thought of that. But, I think your right. I think Babin at RE and Mario at LE might just be the answer.

The more I think about it, the more it makes sense. Mario is a 3-4 DE, or a LE in a 4-3. He is not Freeney, or Peppers, or even Bruce Smith. He is strong and thick, not quick and lean.

Mr. White
08-20-2007, 10:43 AM
You're right in that Mario needs to beat the hold. He needs to become better at hand fighting. I'd suggest martial arts training. Too bad Mr. Miyagi is no longer around.

http://www.l8k.com.ar/blog/imagenes/kk2_004.jpg

But, Mario was blatantly held on numerous occasions. On Leinart's touchdown throw, Gandy had a fist full of jersey. On another play, you can see Kalu lifting Mario's jersey back over his shoulder pad. To be fair, the refs weren't calling holding on either side of the ball.

Another suggestion would be for Mario to invest in some custom fit jerseys. It needs to fit tighter so that the blockers can't grab it so easily. I think he can afford that.

Randy White took up martial arts for the same reason. He started giving hand-fighting classes to Cowboys D-Linemen in the 90's. I think that he's still doing it. I read Greg Ellis learned it from him.

When the TV camera shows Mario's jersey at the end of a game, it's all wrinkled, crumpled, and tore up. It seems like it's already pretty tight when a game starts.

Xtru might be onto something by putting it on the coaches. I think if he were playing for KC, San Diego, or Pittsburgh, then he would probably be a terror. :twocents:

Double Barrel
08-20-2007, 10:47 AM
The guy should be playing Strong side DE. Not Weak side, or "RDE" as some would say.

You mean like....uhhhh...the coaches? :joker:

He's being played RDE regardless if it's the weak or strong side. He does not appear to be moving around the line based upon what the offense is doing. At least the first two pre-season games have been this way.

Second Honeymoon
08-20-2007, 10:52 AM
i wish i had 1/10 the inside info you seem to have.

it's not inside info, its called not being a moron and having common sense.

dont you have a carr jersey to pawn?

real
08-20-2007, 10:52 AM
You mean like....uhhhh...the coaches? :joker:

He's being played RDE regardless if it's the weak or strong side. He does not appear to be moving around the line based upon what the offense is doing. At least the first two pre-season games have been this way.

tis really just a matter of preference...

you say tomato, I say tomato...:joker:

Second Honeymoon
08-20-2007, 10:54 AM
:stirpot: <--Me cooking a big of batch of crow....it'll have to simmer at least 2yrs, but alot of you will be eating a portion, I'm making my guest list right now....:)

just like your batch of crow for all us 'carr haters'. i am sure you had a fair share of leftovers.....

but if Mario becomes more than a bad football player I will be more than happy to eat your crow and ask for a second helping...I just wouldn't make too much or you may have trouble getting rid of it like your Carr batch you made.

Leahmic223
08-20-2007, 10:54 AM
:stirpot: <--Me cooking a big of batch of crow....it'll have to simmer at least 2yrs, but alot of you will be eating a portion, I'm making my guest list right now....:)

I am sure real Texan fans will be ready to eat it, at least those without a agenda.

I am not too worried about him at all. As Dlinemen go, we all know it just takes awhile, so for me it is too early to worry.

But I feel like he is the new david carr...look how many threads pop up about him now and look how large they grow...

Vinny
08-20-2007, 11:15 AM
I am sure real Texan fans will be ready to eat it, at least those without a agenda.

I am not too worried about him at all. As Dlinemen go, we all know it just takes awhile, so for me it is too early to worry.

But I feel like he is the new david carr...look how many threads pop up about him now and look how large they grow...He's just the new 60 million player in a league with a hard salary cap that isn't producing up to his level of pay.....and when your best players don't play up to your pay in the NFL your teams usually suck. Most of us would just like to see him win a few battles. I don't need to wait next year for that.

Leahmic223
08-20-2007, 11:23 AM
He's just the new 60 million player in a league with a hard salary cap that isn't producing up to his level of pay.....and when your best players don't play up to your pay in the NFL your teams usually suck. Most of us would just like to see him win a few battles. I don't need to wait next year for that.

JaMarcus Russell is going to have a hard time. I know a few Raiders fans in my family(from california) and one of them already said he sucks and they should trade him.

If the Pressure is too much for Mario though, than obviously he isn't going to make it in this league.

I'll give him a few more seasons, he's won some battles last year in the regular season, so I am willing to let the guy grow more as a player and as a person. He's not a horrible player based on last season, and I get a feeling that some people think he's just flat out horrible.

Vinny
08-20-2007, 11:25 AM
JaMarcus Russell is going to have a hard time. I know a few Raiders fans in my family(from california) and one of them already said he sucks and they should trade him.

He hasn't even taken a snap, so that comment is just idiotic at best...Jamarcus Russell is a pure stud....at least he produced in College. Just because a person can open their keyster, doesn't mean they know what you are talking about.

Leahmic223
08-20-2007, 11:32 AM
He hasn't even taken a snap, so that comment is just idiotic at best...Jamarcus Russell is a pure stud....at least he produced in College. Just because a person can open their keyster, doesn't mean they know what you are talking about.

I think JaMarcus can be good. Just from the Raider fans I know...some of them will wait, but I know a few that are tired of waiting to see when he is going to sign.

When he does though...it is going to be tons of money.

Vinny
08-20-2007, 11:33 AM
I think JaMarcus can be good. Just from the Raider fans I know...some of them will wait, but I know a few that are tired of waiting to see when he is going to sign.

When he does though...it is going to be tons of money.
well, sure...but we all knew that already.

Leahmic223
08-20-2007, 11:38 AM
well, sure...but we all knew that already.

He's going to have a lot of problems from the Fans because of the pressure I meant which is the same thing Mario has to go through now.

I am not saying don't bash the guy. I am just saying don't label him as bust until his time is up. It may not be this season, it may not be the next, but any season he can explode and all these hard times may be well worth the wait IF he does.

Vinny
08-20-2007, 11:44 AM
He's going to have a lot of problems from the Fans because of the pressure I meant which is the same thing Mario has to go through now.

I am not saying don't bash the guy. I am just saying don't label him as bust until his time is up. It may not be this season, it may not be the next, but any season he can explode and all these hard times may be well worth the wait IF he does. we talk about what we see as we see it around here for the most part. You may want to wait 3-5 years to judge him but the seasons in the NFL are ridiculously short (only 8 home games a year)....stuff happens fast in the NFL...you either bring it or you don't. If he plays better in 3 years we will all notice it then.

FirstTexansFan
08-20-2007, 11:57 AM
just like your batch of crow for all us 'carr haters'. i am sure you had a fair share of leftovers.....

but if Mario becomes more than a bad football player I will be more than happy to eat your crow and ask for a second helping...I just wouldn't make too much or you may have trouble getting rid of it like your Carr batch you made.

I've always been the eternal optimist. I see the glass as half full, you see it as half empty. I prefer my method, less stress. Glad to see you have a good memory, but you failed to mention I ate that crow publicly. You remember to do the same LOL

Specnatz
08-20-2007, 12:01 PM
He hasn't even taken a snap, so that comment is just idiotic at best...Jamarcus Russell is a pure stud....at least he produced in College. Just because a person can open their keyster, doesn't mean they know what you are talking about.

Actually Russell was inconsistant for most of his college career, he did have a great second half last year year including a great bowl game. But that is the way it is coming out of college, all you have to do is produce one year and your labled a stud.


just like your batch of crow for all us 'carr haters'. i am sure you had a fair share of leftovers.....

but if Mario becomes more than a bad football player I will be more than happy to eat your crow and ask for a second helping...I just wouldn't make too much or you may have trouble getting rid of it like your Carr batch you made.


Of course we cannot have one damn single post without mentioning carr because he has everything to with ow Mario plays.

Rex King
08-20-2007, 12:10 PM
It's kind of moot in the overall scheme of things, but the thread title is wrong. I went back and looked, and Kubiak mentioned it. Mario was in on some tackles in the run game, held up the RB in the backfield near the goal line.

2BCF
08-20-2007, 12:21 PM
It's kind of moot in the overall scheme of things, but the thread title is wrong. I went back and looked, and Kubiak mentioned it. Mario was in on some tackles in the run game, held up the RB in the backfield near the goal line.

Yeah, most of us here laughed when he said that.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/lopez/5067216.html

badboy
08-20-2007, 12:34 PM
He's going to have a lot of problems from the Fans because of the pressure I meant which is the same thing Mario has to go through now.

I am not saying don't bash the guy. I am just saying don't label him as bust until his time is up. It may not be this season, it may not be the next, but any season he can explode and all these hard times may be well worth the wait IF he does.If a high first round draft pick DE has not "shown" up in the first year 2006, has not shown up so far this year and has not exploded in your 3 year scenario, to me, he is a bust. I do not see anyone calling for Mario to be a pro bowler this year, just earn your salary ($3million). I do not care if it is preseason. In fact, he should be doing quite well as defense is always ahead of offense this time of year. He looked lost to me.

Rex King
08-20-2007, 12:36 PM
It is kind of funny in a weird way...and sad. But overall he did do a good job in the run game, same as last year.

Vinny
08-20-2007, 12:37 PM
Actually Russell was inconsistant for most of his college career, he did have a great second half last year year including a great bowl game. But that is the way it is coming out of college, all you have to do is produce one year and your labled a stud.I probably watched every single LSU game last year (I probably watch as much SEC football as I do the NFL) and I'll put my eye for talent up with anyone's here. I can't see how anyone would question his talent after watching him play...I mean, after all he was the first overall pick in the draft and I was talking about him way before most of you guys even heard of him.

Second Honeymoon
08-20-2007, 12:38 PM
I've always been the eternal optimist. I see the glass as half full, you see it as half empty. I prefer my method, less stress. Glad to see you have a good memory, but you failed to mention I ate that crow publicly. You remember to do the same LOL

so you see the Mario glass as half-full? whatever man. you can call it eternal optimism but I call it blind stupidity and a distinct detachment from reality. Mario is not a bust yet but I have to seriously consider that its a distinct possibility. My point is that the same people that blindly homered for Carr despite mountains of contrary evidence seem to be the same people who are blindly homering for Mario. A player has to actually show something for me to start homering for him. With some of you it seems like once they put on your team's colors they are instantly HOF and above criticism or critical analysis. Not surprising that its from the same fan base that actually thinks Bagwell is worthy of HOF status and from the same fan base that thought Carr was actually worth a crap.

as for you eating crow, I didn't care about who ate crow when we got rid of our last QB. I just wanted the team to improve....I don't have an agenda or some inner desire for people to admit they were completely wrong and were guilty of being myopic homers.

As for eating crow regarding Mario, nothing would make me happier than Mario actually becoming a decent football player and then eating crow because of it. I just havent seen ANYTHING to believe that eating crow is in my future. To the contrary, it looks like this Mario debacle is only getting worse.

Vinny
08-20-2007, 12:39 PM
I've always been the eternal optimist. I see the glass as half full, you see it as half empty. some see it half full, some see it half empty, but I see a glass twice the size as it needs to be. :specnatz:

Leahmic223
08-20-2007, 12:40 PM
It is kind of funny in a weird way...and sad. But overall he did do a good job in the run game, same as last year.

I am done with discussing and debating on Mario until the season starts. It feels like 6 out of 10 threads are about Mario...

I am not going to debate any further on Mario because frankly I am just tired of discussing him and only him, and then comparing him to RBs, and then bringing up past DEs who've had worse rookie seasons than him, and then bringing up the big plays that he's made last year.

If this team depends that much on Mario than we are doomed. I still feel like that the only reason he is such a hot topic because he was picked over God himself and the second coming. But i'll leave it at that.

Mr teX
08-20-2007, 12:41 PM
so you see the Mario glass as half-full? whatever man. you can call it eternal optimism but I call it blind stupidity and a distinct detachment from reality. Mario is not a bust yet but I have to seriously consider that its a distinct possibility. My point is that the same people that blindly homered for Carr despite mountains of contrary evidence seem to be the same people who are blindly homering for Mario. A player has to actually show something for me to start homering for him. With some of you it seems like once they put on your team's colors they are instantly HOF and above criticism or critical analysis. Not surprising that its from the same fan base that actually thinks Bagwell is worthy of HOF status and from the same fan base that thought Carr was actually worth a crap.

as for you eating crow, I didn't care about who ate crow when we got rid of our last QB. I just wanted the team to improve....I don't have an agenda or some inner desire for people to admit they were completely wrong and were guilty of being myopic homers.

As for eating crow regarding Mario, nothing would make me happier than Mario actually becoming a decent football player and then eating crow because of it. I just havent seen ANYTHING to believe that eating crow is in my future. To the contrary, it looks like this Mario debacle is only getting worse.

People could say the same thing to all of us about being Texans fans the last 5 years. You say tomato i say toma-toe.

Rex King
08-20-2007, 12:53 PM
I am done with discussing and debating on Mario until the season starts. It feels like 6 out of 10 threads are about Mario...

I am not going to debate any further on Mario because frankly I am just tired of discussing him and only him, and then comparing him to RBs, and then bringing up past DEs who've had worse rookie seasons than him, and then bringing up the big plays that he's made last year.

If this team depends that much on Mario than we are doomed. I still feel like that the only reason he is such a hot topic because he was picked over God himself and the second coming. But i'll leave it at that.

I don't know why you're dragging me into your debate with xtru. I have no dog in the fight except Mario. But he's not playing as I expect him to, and he doesn't look better than last year. If we can't get any kind of pass rush, then, yeah, we are kind of doomed.

Specnatz
08-20-2007, 01:00 PM
I probably watched every single LSU game last year (I probably watch as much SEC football as I do the NFL) and I'll put my eye for talent up with anyone's here. I can't see how anyone would question his talent after watching him play...I mean, after all he was the first overall pick in the draft and I was talking about him way before most of you guys even heard of him.

I am not sure if you are being sarcastic here or not. Honestly, I can't tell.

Do not get me wrong I think J Russell was the best QB coming out last year. But like with a lot of other QBs, he is not a pure passer and there are a few things he will need to work on to become a probowl player. I was not saying he was not worth the pick but to say he played 3 great years at LSU would be incorrect is all.

Second Honeymoon
08-20-2007, 01:06 PM
improve mario, improve.

Leahmic223
08-20-2007, 01:13 PM
I don't know why you're dragging me into your debate with xtru. I have no dog in the fight except Mario. But he's not playing as I expect him to, and he doesn't look better than last year. If we can't get any kind of pass rush, then, yeah, we are kind of doomed.

I am not trying to drag you into anything. You just made a point that I kinda agreed on and I wanted to say what I said.

I have no problem with what Tru is saying. I have a problem with fans that feel that Mario is a bust and keep constantly brining up the draft. Some people act like your rookie season is going to repeat itself for the rest of your career or something. Some people have a agenda and I feel like they secretly want Mario to fail for their reasons, if any Texan fan wants that than they are not a fan.

I truly understand the disappointment. At the same time I understand moving to another level of play is not as easy as we may think. But I am not going to debate on him no more until the season starts and I get a better idea of how he's improved if he has.

TK_Gamer
08-20-2007, 01:22 PM
A great defensive end in the NFL gets 1 sack every 3 games, face it, DE's are not flashy, they are in the trenches, moving bodies and changing angles more than anything, but it has effect on others, thats why they are there, not to get .3 sacks a game.

TK_Gamer
08-20-2007, 01:26 PM
the worst part is, our fans our so superficial they will cheer Mario on when he gets a sack but forget it about it the next game. Sorry but Mario is not Reggie Bush, he is not gonna have highlight reel performances game after game.

Vinny
08-20-2007, 01:35 PM
the worst part is, our fans our so superficial they will cheer Mario on when he gets a sack but forget it about it the next game. Sorry but Mario is not Reggie Bush, he is not gonna have highlight reel performances game after game.our fans aren't superficial...I run a few message boards around the league and I'd say we have a pretty mature group if you want the truth. You just overreact to the fringe...you always have. I remember you brow beating me in game threads when I didn't like Carr's performances.

FirstTexansFan
08-20-2007, 01:45 PM
so you see the Mario glass as half-full? whatever man. you can call it eternal optimism but I call it blind stupidity and a distinct detachment from reality. Mario is not a bust yet but I have to seriously consider that its a distinct possibility.

Lets not make it personal. I respect your opinion, and to call me stupid because my opinion differs from yours is wrong :)

FirstTexansFan
08-20-2007, 01:46 PM
some see it half full, some see it half empty, but I see a glass twice the size as it needs to be. :specnatz:

As a retired engineer, I see that same design problem, nothing a session at the drafting table can't fix :)

Second Honeymoon
08-20-2007, 02:06 PM
the worst part is, our fans our so superficial they will cheer Mario on when he gets a sack but forget it about it the next game. Sorry but Mario is not Reggie Bush, he is not gonna have highlight reel performances game after game.

so have you watched the games so far? have you seen Mario this year? anyone who would be pleased or even satisifed thus far would be a prime candidate for a full frontal lobe lobotomy.

Second Honeymoon
08-20-2007, 02:09 PM
Lets not make it personal. I respect your opinion, and to call me stupid because my opinion differs from yours is wrong :)

point taken.

JohnsonFan
08-20-2007, 02:36 PM
lets trade mario if he does not step up this year

PapaL
08-20-2007, 02:37 PM
Sorry but Mario is not Reggie Bush, he is not gonna have highlight reel performances game after game.

Oh yeah Reggie "Jesus in Cleats" Bush. He (Reggie Bush) is not much what of he is destined to be either. How many highlight reel performance games has he had? ZERO. How many highlight performances plays has he had? A few; Punt return for TD and the mocking of Brian Urlacher before the Bears stomped them. Nothing else comes to mind for he who is faster than the wind...

PapaL
08-20-2007, 02:38 PM
lets trade mario if he does not step up this year

You should really step away from the keyboard...

Revolution
08-20-2007, 02:59 PM
First of all, let me say that I do NOT think Mario had a good night.

I did re-watch the first half a few times (Texans defense only) and Mario should have received at least 2 tackles. I know, nothing great, but he did get in on some plays.

Based on what I saw, I truly think that Mario is holding back until the first regular season game.... I hope... :hides:

If this continues into the regular season.... :gun: :jk:

BTW, if this has already been posted, sorry! No way that I am going to read through all this bs! :texflag:

Second Honeymoon
08-20-2007, 03:02 PM
First of all, let me say that I do NOT think Mario had a good night.

I did re-watch the first half a few times (Texans defense only) and Mario should have received at least 2 tackles. I know, nothing great, but he did get in on some plays.

Based on what I saw, I truly think that Mario is holding back until the first regular season game.... I hope... :hides:

If this continues into the regular season.... :gun: :jk:

BTW, if this has already been posted, sorry! No way that I am going to read through all this bs! :texflag:

pretty much everyone shares the same opinion whether they are being critical of Mario's play or displaying patience in regards to his play. If it persists into the regular season even the most stalwart Mario believer will begin to reassess their original assessment.

dickieb
08-21-2007, 05:30 PM
Why is Mario at the top of our Texans Talk banner? Shouldn't it be our best performer? I would say that once he has 10 sacks this year then give him some time atop the banner, but until then how about the player showing the greatest qualities that we Texans fans adore... like Jacoby Jones?
What do you guys think? Who should be atop the Texans Talk banner?!

The Pencil Neck
08-21-2007, 05:47 PM
Why is Mario at the top of our Texans Talk banner? Shouldn't it be our best performer? I would say that once he has 10 sacks this year then give him some time atop the banner, but until then how about the player showing the greatest qualities that we Texans fans adore... like Jacoby Jones?
What do you guys think? Who should be atop the Texans Talk banner?!


I think this deserves its own thread.

Vinny
08-21-2007, 05:51 PM
Why is Mario at the top of our Texans Talk banner? Shouldn't it be our best performer? I would say that once he has 10 sacks this year then give him some time atop the banner, but until then how about the player showing the greatest qualities that we Texans fans adore... like Jacoby Jones?
What do you guys think? Who should be atop the Texans Talk banner?!
you mean the Jacoby Jones who has yet to take a real snap in a regular season game huh?

Double Barrel
08-21-2007, 06:02 PM
I think this deserves its own thread.

I think I don't really care. It's just a banner. :howdy:

The Pencil Neck
08-21-2007, 06:04 PM
you mean the Jacoby Jones who has yet to take a real snap in a regular season game huh?


I think it should be either AJ or Demeco.

Vinny
08-21-2007, 06:07 PM
I think it should be either AJ or Demeco.
the banner was made deep in the offseason....no reason to think he would be disappointing in his first couple of preseason games. I think we should wait till the regular season before we get all knee jerk with the banner...it's one thing to discuss it, but it's another thing to let the preseason discussion turn into chicken little syndrome with our visuals. There are quite a few players that would "deserve" to be on the banner....it's just a great shot of Mario...who is supposed to be one of our main cogs this year.

dickieb
08-21-2007, 06:13 PM
That's cool about JJ, I understand. But you're speculating on Mario so why not speculate on someone who has done some amazing things so far as a Texan? I agree Demeco or Andre or anyone but Mario, until he proves his worth to be on top! Just my 2 cents.

Double Barrel
08-21-2007, 07:30 PM
tis really just a matter of preference...

you say tomato, I say tomato...:joker:

Is it really a preference thing? :um:

Right side means the right side.

The strong or weak side can change depending on the offensive formation. I have no doubt that you know this, too.

You have stated that they are playing Mario as a strong side DE, when in fact, he's been playing RDE in spite of the offensive formation. Mario is not moving around the D-line because of strong or weak sides.

That's not really a preference as much as iiwii. :victory:

real
08-21-2007, 07:39 PM
Is it really a preference thing? :um:

Right side means the right side.

The strong or weak side can change depending on the offensive formation. I have no doubt that you know this, too.

You have stated that they are playing Mario as a strong side DE, when in fact, he's been playing RDE in spite of the offensive formation. Mario is not moving around the D-line because of strong or weak sides.

That's not really a preference as much as iiwii. :victory:


No....

I offered an opinion as to why Mario was lined up on the left side in that video....And that is when I was argued down about how DE's don't switch with the the strength....Well yes they do...They may not be doing that with Mario, but some of them do....


When I say it's a matter of preference, I'm talking about how an individual chooses to refer to the DE positions, and how teams choose to play the players...

If they are leaving mario on the Right side no matter what...so be it...

Double Barrel
08-21-2007, 07:41 PM
No....

I offered an opinion as to why Mario was lined up on the left side in that video....And that is when I was argued down about how DE's don't switch with the the strength....Well yes they do...They may not be doing that with Mario, but some of them do....


When I say it's a matter of preference, I'm talking about how an individual chooses to refer to the DE positions, and how teams choose to play the players...

If they are leaving mario on the Right side no matter what...so be it...


That's cool, man...you know I've got to yank your chain every once in awhile. :shades:

dickieb
08-21-2007, 08:40 PM
....it's just a great shot of Mario...who is supposed to be one of our main cogs this year.

Yeah it looks like he saying, "Hey Demeco there goes another one, go tackle him for me while I cash another check from Mr. McNair."

BattleRedToro
08-22-2007, 06:28 AM
Some years there are some really good coaches available to be an assistant. Last year wasn't the bestest year to pick.

I also forgot to mention Ron Rivera. He became available during the offseason, but I guess Kubiak wasn't going to abandon Smith after just one season.

Specnatz
08-22-2007, 11:14 AM
Yeah it looks like he saying, "Hey Demeco there goes another one, go tackle him for me while I cash another check from Mr. McNair."

Is that what your co-workers are saying right now while your on a message board.

dickieb
08-22-2007, 03:12 PM
Is that what your co-workers are saying right now while your on a message board.

Nice shot (A+ for effort), but I was on the message board last night after work. I just want Mario to step it up, I think that's all we ask as fans. Do I think he will eventually become a good player, sure. I just want to see him earn what he has been GIVEN ($$$, respect,etc.) because up to this point I don't think he has earned it all of it. By the way this post was made at home after work as well.

Let's go Mario, sack the Cowqueen "Romo the homo" that will shut us up for a little while.

:fans:

real
08-22-2007, 03:17 PM
I wish I got off in time to be home by three..

dickieb
08-22-2007, 03:40 PM
I wish I got off in time to be home by three..

I guess that's one advantage I have by not living or working in Houston, rush hour traffic and all the other pains involved. It would be nice to be closer though so I could actually catch a live game once in a while.

Kaiser Toro
09-10-2007, 09:18 AM
Bump for happy and ridiculous thoughts.

Great game for our DE who is just a workout warrior. Who takes plays off. Who has no heart. Who we made a mistake on. Who brings this organization shame. Who makes no around him better.

To quote an idiotic Chefs fan - "lol, eat BBQ Crow, lol, lol"

Today is a great day to be a Texan. :texflag:

HuttoKarl
09-10-2007, 09:22 AM
Bump for happy and ridiculous thoughts.

Great game for our DE who is just a workout warrior. Who takes plays off. Who has no heart. Who we made a mistake on. Who brings this organization shame. Who makes no around him better.

To quote an idiotic Chefs fan - "lol, eat BBQ Crow, lol, lol"

Today is a great day to be a Texan. :texflag:

Excellent bump.

TexansFanatic
09-10-2007, 09:23 AM
Good post, KT. :)

Mr. White
09-10-2007, 09:24 AM
I was expecting one of these threads to get bumped. Mario showed up big yesterday.

I was doubting the guy this preseason, but I'm glad he proved me wrong. Best tasting crow I've ever ate.

hobie
09-10-2007, 09:25 AM
Bump for happy and ridiculous thoughts.

Great game for our DE who is just a workout warrior. Who takes plays off. Who has no heart. Who we made a mistake on. Who brings this organization shame. Who makes no around him better.

To quote an idiotic Chefs fan - "lol, eat BBQ Crow, lol, lol"

Today is a great day to be a Texan. :texflag:


PLEASE PEOPLE - 1 game does not make things different, he is a selfish player !! Didn't you see him hold that ball after the TD...Add a ball hog to the list now !! :d:

powerfuldragon
09-10-2007, 09:41 AM
http://www.texansbullpen.com/07photogallery/Season/2007-09-09-Chiefs-Texans/3rdQuarter/DSC_0647.JPG

Texan Asylum
09-10-2007, 09:46 AM
PLEASE PEOPLE - 1 game does not make things different, he is a selfish player !! Didn't you see him hold that ball after the TD...Add a ball hog to the list now !! :d:

This is classic stuff! Thanks for the laugh! :fans:

real
09-10-2007, 09:49 AM
Mario's play has picked up ever since the Dallas game. Before that game happened he acknowledged that his play was not up to his own standard. In the Dallas game the coaches moved him around a bit more and he also said that he tried a new approach.

Can't speak for anyone else, but I've mantained that he was a good ball player. Really happy for Mario, and even though I like both VY and RB it feels really good to see Mario coming into his own while both of those guys struggled this first week.

Doesn't it set you up for a good week when your team wins on Sunday ?!:fans:

powerfuldragon
09-10-2007, 09:50 AM
i was jumping around and screaming like a lunatic when mario ran that fumble back.

Leahmic223
09-10-2007, 09:50 AM
Bump for happy and ridiculous thoughts.

Great game for our DE who is just a workout warrior. Who takes plays off. Who has no heart. Who we made a mistake on. Who brings this organization shame. Who makes no around him better.

To quote an idiotic Chefs fan - "lol, eat BBQ Crow, lol, lol"

Today is a great day to be a Texan. :texflag:

Apple...is that you? Some people are going to eat a lot of crow this year.

One game though, but like I said. You can't expect stats from a DE in the preseason when they play 10-15 snaps, Kubiak said that had he played a full game after game 1 that the stats would indicate he played well...

So lets go back here...the Cowboys game he opened some eyes and he played 3 qtrs that game and most felt he should have had 3 sacks that game... This game he plays the full game and what do we get...well 2 sacks, 5 tackles, and a fumble recovery taken to the Hizzouse.

Also 5 tackles is a good game, this guy was stopping the run and a sack is always a drive killer.

So what am I getting at...well nothing really, he played well in the games WE wanted him to play well in so far. The Cowboy game and Week 1...