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the wonger need food
08-18-2007, 12:46 PM
http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm



There's already talk in league circles that defensive tackle Amobi Okoye, the No. 10 overall pick in the draft, could be a bust.

The 20-year-old rookie from Louisville received plenty of hype in the run up to the draft. But the opinion of some is that he is undersized and not strong. As one source said, he's the "creation of a good P.R. campaign," and "there's no way he's a first-round pick."

Okoye already has been overshadowed in training camp and the preseason by Rams nose tackle Adam Carriker, the 13th overall selection. Carriker appears to be poised to make an instant impact at this level.

In our view, the biggest red flag regarding Okoye was raised when his college coach, Bobby Petrino, drafted defensive end Jamaal Anderson instead of Okoye. If Petrino, who had prior NFL experience, believed that Okoye could excel as a pro, Petrino surely would have taken the known commodity over the unknown quantity.

If Okoye falters, he'll be the third first-round pick on the Texans defensive line that has underachieved, including defensive tackle Travis Johnson and defensive end Mario Williams.

JohnsonFan
08-18-2007, 12:49 PM
http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm



There's already talk in league circles that defensive tackle Amobi Okoye, the No. 10 overall pick in the draft, could be a bust.

The 20-year-old rookie from Louisville received plenty of hype in the run up to the draft. But the opinion of some is that he is undersized and not strong. As one source said, he's the "creation of a good P.R. campaign," and "there's no way he's a first-round pick."

Okoye already has been overshadowed in training camp and the preseason by Rams nose tackle Adam Carriker, the 13th overall selection. Carriker appears to be poised to make an instant impact at this level.

In our view, the biggest red flag regarding Okoye was raised when his college coach, Bobby Petrino, drafted defensive end Jamaal Anderson instead of Okoye. If Petrino, who had prior NFL experience, believed that Okoye could excel as a pro, Petrino surely would have taken the known commodity over the unknown quantity.

If Okoye falters, he'll be the third first-round pick on the Texans defensive line that has underachieved, including defensive tackle Travis Johnson and defensive end Mario Williams.

ppl love to talk ****** about us what ever they are all haters :fans: :fans:

TexansLucky13
08-18-2007, 01:00 PM
I am beginning to dislike PFT. They never have anything positive to say about the Texans. The only thing I like about PFT is that there is no real bias. Each team receives the same amount of coverage, unless one of their players has a legal issue. In that case, they are covered exclusively.

TheRealJoker
08-18-2007, 01:15 PM
So he's played a handful of games in one preseason game and he's already a bust before he's old enough to drink?

TheCD
08-18-2007, 01:15 PM
The 20-year-old rookie from Louisville received plenty of hype in the run up to the draft. But the opinion of some is that he is undersized and not strong. As one source said, he's the "creation of a good P.R. campaign," and "there's no way he's a first-round pick."

If Okoye falters, he'll be the third first-round pick on the Texans defensive line that has underachieved, including defensive tackle Travis Johnson and defensive end Mario Williams.

I just don't know what to make of these. They're amusing to say the least, but how do they possibly base this on anything?

http://profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

nunusguy
08-18-2007, 01:15 PM
In our view, the biggest red flag regarding Okoye was raised when his college coach, Bobby Petrino, drafted defensive end Jamaal Anderson instead of Okoye. If Petrino, who had prior NFL experience, believed that Okoye could excel as a pro, Petrino surely would have taken the known commodity over the unknown quantity.

The Falcons had a big hole to fill at DE after the offseason loss of Patrick Kerney, who was good enough to get almost 20 million in guarantees from the Seahawks. So apparently they felt that DE Jamaal Anderson was a bigger need than an inside DLineman like Okoye even if Okoye played for the new HC in college ?
Still it's a fair question and leaves a little doubt given that coachs tend to be very loyal to their X-players ?

Overalls
08-18-2007, 01:23 PM
I think I will wait longer than the 1st preseason game to call him a bust.

checo446
08-18-2007, 01:31 PM
I just don't know what to make of these. They're amusing to say the least, but how do they possibly base this on anything?

http://profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

I read that profootballtalk website occasionally during the free agency period. it is humorous to see some of the stuff they make up in their rumor mill. I wouldn't make too much of it.

checo446
08-18-2007, 01:33 PM
PFT isn't a very reputable site. I read their stuff occasionally for laughs during the free agency period, and it always appeared that they made up half of their stuff just to create readership.

HoustonFrog
08-18-2007, 01:33 PM
After a pre-season game?Wow, they don't even wait for our picks to play anymore..lol. It won't end until we win.

DBCooper
08-18-2007, 01:35 PM
They're basing this entire article on circumstantial evidence. No facts, just speculation.

I like how they threw the Mario bust in there also, nice touch.

In the words of Yosemite Sam, "Idiots!" (spoken "idguts")

LORK 88
08-18-2007, 01:37 PM
World Weekly News strikes again . . .

real
08-18-2007, 01:47 PM
I think the article has some good points....

I don't think Amobi is a bust...I think he'll be a good player...

But nevertheless, I still think the article has some valid points...

Vinny
08-18-2007, 01:47 PM
its too early to label anyone a bust but I have the same concerns and voiced them to all my friends as we drafted. I've also mentioned here not to expect much from him this year since he probably won't be good right off the bat.

Hookem Horns
08-18-2007, 01:48 PM
Who knows. One thing is for sure is IF the Texans keep whiffing on 1st rounders we are doomed to be the Detroit Lions of the AFC.

HoustonFrog
08-18-2007, 02:00 PM
its too early to label anyone a bust but I have the same concerns and voiced them to all my friends as we drafted. I've also mentioned here not to expect much from him this year since he probably won't be good right off the bat.

I wasn't "excited" about the pick..I wanted to move down and take one of the WRs or DBs...but I like the kid. The only thing that scares me is that it kind of reminds me of the Cowbous when they desparately tried to upgrade the D-line and went with Greg Ellis and Ekuban in consecutive years. They ended up being "good" serviceable starters but not studs in my book. I think it is too early but I expect a slow year this year from him and then we will see how he grows next year.

Heath Shuler
08-18-2007, 02:42 PM
http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm



There's already talk in league circles that defensive tackle Amobi Okoye, the No. 10 overall pick in the draft, could be a bust.

The 20-year-old rookie from Louisville received plenty of hype in the run up to the draft. But the opinion of some is that he is undersized and not strong. As one source said, he's the "creation of a good P.R. campaign," and "there's no way he's a first-round pick."

Okoye already has been overshadowed in training camp and the preseason by Rams nose tackle Adam Carriker, the 13th overall selection. Carriker appears to be poised to make an instant impact at this level.

In our view, the biggest red flag regarding Okoye was raised when his college coach, Bobby Petrino, drafted defensive end Jamaal Anderson instead of Okoye. If Petrino, who had prior NFL experience, believed that Okoye could excel as a pro, Petrino surely would have taken the known commodity over the unknown quantity.

If Okoye falters, he'll be the third first-round pick on the Texans defensive line that has underachieved, including defensive tackle Travis Johnson and defensive end Mario Williams.

I wonder why they didnít throw Babin in that group?

Vinny
08-18-2007, 02:54 PM
I wonder why they didnít throw Babin in that group?Babin is looking like a player finally

Buffi2
08-18-2007, 03:04 PM
Babin is looking like a player finally

If it can happen with Babin, it can happen with anyone...maybe even Travis Johnson who seems to be doing somewhat better, say I after watching him play a few downs in one pre season game.

Ridiculous assumptions by PFT.

CloakNNNdagger
08-18-2007, 03:04 PM
I think I will wait longer than the 1st preseason game to call him a bust.


FOOL!!:dangit: What's wrong with you........Admit it............He's a Bust!!!!!!

BattleRedToro
08-18-2007, 03:10 PM
http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm
In our view, the biggest red flag regarding Okoye was raised when his college coach, Bobby Petrino, drafted defensive end Jamaal Anderson instead of Okoye. If Petrino, who had prior NFL experience, believed that Okoye could excel as a pro, Petrino surely would have taken the known commodity over the unknown quantity.

The assumption here is that Bobby Petrino had the final say on their first pick, which might not be true.

ArlingtonTexan
08-18-2007, 03:25 PM
I lov ethe attack the messager versus the message posting that broke out here. Overall, I think too early to declare any player as a bust unless he is just a disaster which Okoye did not seem to me in 1st preseason game. Also, the until the Texans at least make the playoffs pretty much anything we read from anyone national will be neutral at best and most likely not complimentary.

Second Honeymoon
08-18-2007, 03:46 PM
I don't know. This all sounds like revisionist history by the pundits. Even the NFL draft loser at ESPN had the Skins taking Okoye at #5 overall and applauding it but then when he fell to us at #10 it was all of a sudden a bad pick because we made it.

Okoye has done nothing to wow me but neither has Mario. Ill be patient.

Marcus
08-18-2007, 03:50 PM
Babin is looking like a player finally

So, does that mean calling him a bust . . . was premature? (not saying you did, but a LOT of people did, and still do)

And if that's the case, is calling Mario, Travis, and Amobi busts premature?

Does it prove the point that you have to wait 3 or 4 years before you can label a DL a bust?

It would seem to be the case, yes, no?

Htownsportsfan
08-18-2007, 04:07 PM
Anything is possible but considering the kid has over achieved at everything he has ever done in his life I expect him to do the same now and wait and see what happens.

bayshorebevo
08-18-2007, 04:15 PM
Until we win some games, the rest of the country will say we stink.

Overalls
08-18-2007, 04:19 PM
Until we win some games, the rest of the country will say we stink.

UNTIL we win some games we do stink.

bayshorebevo
08-18-2007, 04:26 PM
UNTIL we win some games we do stink.

Thanks for filling in the blanks for me.

Leahmic223
08-18-2007, 07:34 PM
I don't know. This all sounds like revisionist history by the pundits. Even the NFL draft loser at ESPN had the Skins taking Okoye at #5 overall and applauding it but then when he fell to us at #10 it was all of a sudden a bad pick because we made it.

Okoye has done nothing to wow me but neither has Mario. Ill be patient.

This is like what happened to Mario. He was projected top 5 and projected to be the first defensive player taken...yet since Bush happened to go after him they change their tune.

I think Okoye has been doing pretty well. Imagine that it takes Dlinemen (usually) 2 to 3 years to develop and really get into the game...by that time he'll be what...21, 22...

You draft on potential. Mario was drafted on the potential that he could be a HOF DE, and Amobi was drafted on the potential that a good DT could get our whole line moving. It just seems that some people expect these players to reach their potential too soon, and that is where the bust label comes from. Either that or people have high expectations...like Mario HAS to have a HOF career in order not to be labled a bust.

HJam72
08-18-2007, 10:06 PM
I knew he was a bust when he didn't get a sack on the first run play. :)

Errant Hothy
08-18-2007, 10:43 PM
This is way early, espically when you consider his position and his age. There is no denying that DT's tend to bust guite freguentloy in the NFL, but few make an impact as a rookie, espically a 20 year old rookie.

PapaL
08-18-2007, 10:56 PM
In other news, the Texans 2008 1st Round pick is offically a bust. <insert player name here> has yet to record any stats in this, his final year in the NCAA.

maddogmrb
08-18-2007, 11:34 PM
The critism of AO and MW will stop when they start making plays. So far, neither of them has. Of course, it will take some time to develop but, players drafted as highly as both of them are expected to show signs of the potential they were drafted for and, so far, neither is showing anything. Maybe, it is a little too hard on AO but, even in just 2 pre-season games, there should be a flash of good stuff here and there and so far he and MW have been non-factors on our defense. We could have plugged ANY of our other dlinemen into their positions so far and gotten as good or better play.

Of course, it is not their fault we chose to draft them as high as we did and it appears, at this point that we reached for both of them. The disappointment should be aimed much more at the FO than the players themselves because they were probably drafted before they should have been and MW should be a LDE and Amobi should be moved to DE and allowed to mature into the position.

Errant Hothy
08-18-2007, 11:39 PM
The critism of AO and MW will stop when they start making plays. So far, neither of them has. Of course, it will take some time to develop but, players drafted as highly as both of them are expected to show signs of the potential they were drafted for and, so far, neither is showing anything. Maybe, it is a little too hard on AO but, even in just 2 pre-season games, there should be a flash of good stuff here and there and so far he and MW have been non-factors on our defense. We could have plugged ANY of our other dlinemen into their positions so far and gotten as good or better play.

Of course, it is not their fault we chose to draft them as high as we did and it appears, at this point that we reached for both of them. The disappointment should be aimed much more at the FO than the players themselves because they were probably drafted before they should have been and MW should be a LDE and Amobi should be moved to DE and allowed to mature into the position.

Dude, do you know how foolish you are looking for saying that Amobi is failing after 2 meaningless games. Espically the first 2 games of his pro career.

Reggie Bush didn't have a TD will week 8 last year, and I'msure you thought he was a bust till then too.

The knee-jerking on Mario I can understand (espically when the second coming of Jesus is factored into the pick), I don't agree with it; but I understand...this talk of Amobi being a bust is jumping the gun by several miles at best.

tulexan
08-18-2007, 11:39 PM
In other news, the Texans 2008 1st Round pick is offically a bust. <insert player name here> has yet to record any stats in this, his final year in the NCAA.

What were we thinking picking him? I can't believe we didn't pick <insert other name> instead.

Errant Hothy
08-18-2007, 11:43 PM
What were we thinking picking him? I can't believe we didn't pick <insert other name> instead.

You're both wrong, they should have traded down and got <insert other name> and <insert other name> and <insert random 09 draft pick>. Gods, if only we had a decent GM.

Spled
08-18-2007, 11:49 PM
No way that Bush lived up to his ESPN "comes along once in a generation" hype.

JohnsonFan
08-19-2007, 12:15 AM
well i think reggie sold himself preatty well

Wolf
08-19-2007, 12:32 AM
UNTIL we win some games we do stink.

yes, but others will still point fingers on why we aren't the '85 bears defense or 2000 ravens defense
(I hope we are better ;) )

kiwitexansfan
08-19-2007, 02:18 AM
I think what is happening here with our first round DLmen is that all of them except for perhaps TJ are all long term prospects not instant performers.

I know that will rile people who think that first rounders should be instant impact players but I think the front office is working on a longer schedule than that.

Babin is a long term because he was moved around.

Mario is long term because he has to learn how to use his raw talent that got him by in college.

Okoye is long term because he's 20... 20

Now this may suck for now but hopefully it will pay off for years and years to come.

real
08-19-2007, 02:34 AM
So, does that mean calling him a bust . . . was premature? (not saying you did, but a LOT of people did, and still do)

And if that's the case, is calling Mario, Travis, and Amobi busts premature?

Does it prove the point that you have to wait 3 or 4 years before you can label a DL a bust?

It would seem to be the case, yes, no?

Everyone tries to quantify situations as if they're the same...

Use your eyes...Babin has always shown that he could somewhat get after the passer....He's always had good burst for a DE...

Mario looks bad....

real
08-19-2007, 02:41 AM
Tommie Harris is another young DT who entered the leauge at age 20...

He too played less than stellar trying to adjust to the strength of NFL O-linemen...

I saw some good things out of Okoye today...

For instance...If you can go back and watch the game look at that 4th and 1 stop we had....Okoye is down towards the bottom of the screen...The guard in front of him tries to block him and Levi Brown is trying to block don on him...

Okoye made the guard whiff and eat dirt and when Brown tried to block down on him he used a spin move and made Levi whiff...He didn't make the play, but he would have if the RB had come towards him...Instead he arrived on the scene a second too late...It was a great move...

I heard someone talking earlier about how Okoye was the one "standing next to the pile", but go back and take a look at how he got there...

Give the guy time to develop...He's doing some good things down there in the trenches and within years the guy is going to be a beast....We are going to see some good things from Okoye this year...This is a kid that will show flashes...

Vinny
08-19-2007, 03:18 AM
Harris played pretty well at times as a rook...he didn't look lost or anything.

PapaL
08-19-2007, 06:30 AM
So Atlanta drafts a DE after their Pro-Bowl DE leaves via FA and they don't draft a DT when their starting and sometime Pro-Bowl DTs (Rod Coleman, Grady Jackson, Jonathan Babineaux) stay?

Yeah Coach Petrino must be saying AO is horrible.

The1ApplePie
08-19-2007, 10:05 AM
Still trying to figure out why you take AO when Willis is still on the board.

I think the Texans will get blasted for taking another D-Lineman, since this was the 4th straight 1st rounder used on the D-Line. Millen has been getting crap for taking WRs.

The Pencil Neck
08-19-2007, 02:59 PM
For instance...If you can go back and watch the game look at that 4th and 1 stop we had....Okoye is down towards the bottom of the screen...The guard in front of him tries to block him and Levi Brown is trying to block don on him...

Okoye made the guard whiff and eat dirt and when Brown tried to block down on him he used a spin move and made Levi whiff...He didn't make the play, but he would have if the RB had come towards him...Instead he arrived on the scene a second too late...It was a great move...

I heard someone talking earlier about how Okoye was the one "standing next to the pile", but go back and take a look at how he got there...


Yeah, I went back and looked at him on that play last night. That was a good play from him. I think Mario did a pretty good job holding the point of attack on that play, too.

Vinny
08-19-2007, 03:02 PM
Yeah, I went back and looked at him on that play last night. That was a good play from him. I think Mario did a pretty good job holding the point of attack on that play, too.

The shame about all the excuse making is that the key player on that play was Maddox (and he never got mentioned at all)....not Okoye. If Maddox gets whipped, they make the first down. Okoye ended up on the ground. Mario held his ground and didn't get pushed back...the trait of a nice run stopping lineman....our future DT perhaps.

Double Barrel
08-19-2007, 03:13 PM
I'm not calling anyone a bust....BUT...

Our D-line is clearly one of the weakest aspects of this team, in spite of using four first round picks.

I did not expect Pro Bowl performances in the first two pre-season games. However, they do not seem to reveal any fire or determination to prove themselves. And combined with our recent history, the direction we seem to be headed does not seem to be one of having a consistent pass rush. It might be a really long season for our coverage players as a result.

The Dream
08-19-2007, 03:17 PM
They're basing this entire article on circumstantial evidence. No facts, just speculation.


fact- travis johnson and mario williams have shown us little

speculaton- okoye is a bust...

Texans_Chick
08-19-2007, 03:20 PM
I don't know what sort of player Okoye will be but I will make this observation.

I think all scouting staffs have biases. Some teams like more proven guys in college, some like more potential, some put more or less weight on character concerns. (probably more so now with the conduct policy).

The Texans traditionally seem to put a high value on potential, measurables, character. They have often taken upside players that they think they can coach up. They like niiiiiiiiice guys. Some times this works for the team (Daniels, Jones as examples), and sometimes not so much.

Betting on potential might be easier on offense when the coaching staff has a good idea in what they want, then on defense where you aren't sure they have a philosophy. (best players on defense so far, are the ones who were proven guys/not upside: Robinson, Ryans).

The Texans will play more of their draftees just because there are so many needs, but a team that has already top 25%/50% league players in place can use a rookie easier without the rookie being exposed than a team that has less of those top players. We are going to see more of a draftees flaws because not only are we watching them learn, but we are depending on these rookies to be key parts of our team. In probably doesn't make it any easier that we are depending on rookies, and our defensive coaching staff is fairly inexperienced as a staff together too--working on schemes and developing players.

Just stuff noodling around in my head--things you wonder about during draft time.

Texans Horror
08-19-2007, 03:23 PM
You know, my problem is that Matt had too much of a pocket. He was even able to run straight up the middle - untouched - once. Wow. For the amount of time and effort that has been put into crafting this line, they looked awful - would have said mediocre if it was most other teams.

That being said, this was only the second pre-season game. This is only MW's second year and Okoye's second game. I'm not expecting huge things from the line this year, but I expected it to do better than the offense.

My major concern, though, was in the late second quarter when the Cards' second-team offense came up and moved the ball well vs. the Texans first-team D. That did not instill confidence.

Vinny
08-19-2007, 03:26 PM
You know, my problem is that Matt had too much of a pocket. He was even able to run straight up the middle - untouched - once. Wow. For the amount of time and effort that has been put into crafting this line, they looked awful - would have said mediocre if it was most other teams.
what the heck does this mean?

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
08-19-2007, 03:30 PM
what the heck does this mean?



I think he was talking about Matt Leinart.

And you're right about Maddox being the key player in the 4th and 1 stop.

Vinny
08-19-2007, 03:31 PM
Ok, I forgot there were two Matts last night. :)

The Dream
08-19-2007, 03:39 PM
that confused me a little also, lol

The1ApplePie
08-19-2007, 04:16 PM
I think AO is going to end up more of a DE/DT Tweener than a true DT, just like TJ and Weaver. Can have good versitility, but is not the run stopper we need in the inside so desperately.

At least the kid has some good technique when it comes to swims and spins. Beats the guy we are giving 1st overall money to that can't even pull off either of those moves without falling over.

real
08-19-2007, 05:23 PM
The shame about all the excuse making is that the key player on that play was Maddox (and he never got mentioned at all)....not Okoye. If Maddox gets whipped, they make the first down. Okoye ended up on the ground.

That's true...

And I'm not sure how everyone evaluates players, but I've seen some really good things from the guy...

I really don't have any doubt in my mind that the guy is going to be a beast....I'm pretty much calling it now...

Really the only thing he needs to work hard on is his strength...He has excellent quickness, and he uses his hands really well....He's agressive and he looks confident to me...

I think we are going to see flashes from the guy this season...I expect him to get 2.5 - 3.5 sacks....

DBCooper
08-19-2007, 05:26 PM
That's true...

And I'm not sure how everyone evaluates players, but I've seen some really good things from the guy...

I really don't have any doubt in my mind that the guy is going to be a beast....I'm pretty much calling it now...

Really the only thing he needs to work hard on is his strength...He has excellent quickness, and he uses his hands really well....He's agressive and he looks confident to me...

I think we are going to see flashes from the guy this season...I expect him to get 2.5 - 3.5 sacks....


That's good to hear.

Most of the talking head types seem to think he will not be any good against the run, what have you seen so far?

real
08-19-2007, 05:42 PM
That's good to hear.

Most of the talking head types seem to think he will not be any good against the run, what have you seen so far?

I don't know if he'll ever be the type of DT that is a brick wall in the run game...but I doi think he is going to be effective against the run...

What I have seen out of Okoye is the ability to use his quickness in the run game...

For instance on the fourth down stop yesterday he used his quickness and agility to make two linemen trying to block him completely miss...

No he didn't make the play, but had he gotten blown out of the hole the RB could have just as easily ran at him and gotten the first...There are a lot of linemen in the leauge that would have just absorbed the double team and tried to hold the point...Not a bad technique if you're big and strong enough...But Okoye isn't, and he recognizes that and uses his best attributes to be effective...

The fact that he was able to do that as a 20 yr. old rookie was very encouraging...

kiwitexansfan
08-19-2007, 08:24 PM
I think AO is going to end up more of a DE/DT Tweener than a true DT, just like TJ and Weaver. Can have good versitility, but is not the run stopper we need in the inside so desperately.

At least the kid has some good technique when it comes to swims and spins. Beats the guy we are giving 1st overall money to that can't even pull off either of those moves without falling over.

I think they see Okoye as a penetrating DT, more of a pass rusher than a run stopper.

When he matures, bulks up, gets stronger he might develop as a run stopper though.

ObsiWan
08-19-2007, 08:57 PM
Okay, big picture questions:

An earlier post by Texans_Chick has me wondering about Richard Smith and just what this D is supposed to be about. I'm not sure what the identity/philosophy of this defense is supposed to be and what role the linemen play in it.

Are the linemen just supposed to keep the blockers occupied and let the LBs make the plays? That's the way Baltimore does it.

Are they supposed to play like Dungy's Cover-2 linemen (who are typically smallish but fast) and use their agility/speed to make plays?

What's his plan? And did we draft the right guys to pull it off?

Enquiring minds want to know.

Her other point is also good.
We are going to see more of a draftee's flaws because not only are we watching them learn, but we are depending on these rookies to be key parts of our team.
Its easier for a rook to come in and contribute in an established defense as opposed to having to come in and be the key member of a defense trying to find itself.

But if they all blossom together, it'll be a beautiful thing.

Htownsportsfan
08-19-2007, 09:02 PM
Damn I wish the preseason would end! Why would anyone give a ****** about anything that comes fro "The Rumormill". Think back to the better coverage during the draft this kid was covered my dozens of draft services and many including scouts inc contradict what is said here.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft07/insider/news/story?id=2850167&univLogin02=stateChanged

The pick: Amobi Okoye, DT, Louisville
Scouts take: The Texans had a more pressing need at corner and both of the top two were still on the board at the No. 10 pick. Either Darrelle Revis or Leon Hall would be great values at this pick and fill a more pressing need. That has to be noted, but Okoye is still an excellent pick and the reason is great defenses are built from the inside out.

Okoye has excellent initial quickness, good strength and the frame to comfortably add weight. He can get after the passer and disrupt running plays in the backfield. In addition, defensive tackle is also a need and Okoye should compete for a starting role.

GuerillaBlack
08-19-2007, 09:53 PM
Okoye is still young and is still growing. I have seen some good plays from him. It is waaay to early to call him a bust. PFT is a joke.

Texans Horror
08-19-2007, 10:04 PM
Damn I wish the preseason would end! Why would anyone give a ****** about anything that comes fro "The Rumormill". Think back to the better coverage during the draft this kid was covered my dozens of draft services and many including scouts inc contradict what is said here.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft07/insider/news/story?id=2850167&univLogin02=stateChanged

The pick: Amobi Okoye, DT, Louisville
Scouts take: The Texans had a more pressing need at corner and both of the top two were still on the board at the No. 10 pick. Either Darrelle Revis or Leon Hall would be great values at this pick and fill a more pressing need. That has to be noted, but Okoye is still an excellent pick and the reason is great defenses are built from the inside out.

Okoye has excellent initial quickness, good strength and the frame to comfortably add weight. He can get after the passer and disrupt running plays in the backfield. In addition, defensive tackle is also a need and Okoye should compete for a starting role.

See, this is where it is all a matter of perspective. The Texans really need a legitimate DT, too. TJ was looking like a total bust. The Texans needed somebody there. Ideally it would have been a run-stopping DT (JMO). But any new blood there would help. The Texans have to be able to stop the run this year if they are going to make .500. How well Weaver and Okoye can do that will gauge how difficult the battle to .500 is this year.

Granted, it seems to me the past five years the Texans have really needed a LT and a safety/cornerback, and we're still waiting. But that's a debate for January 2008.

I hope in the next game the Texans D-line does a lot less of just hitting the guy in front of them and actually moves around them and provides pressure.

DocBar
08-19-2007, 11:52 PM
I am beginning to dislike PFT. They never have anything positive to say about the Texans. The only thing I like about PFT is that there is no real bias. Each team receives the same amount of coverage, unless one of their players has a legal issue. In that case, they are covered exclusively. PFT doesn't say much positive about ANY team. They are the " Jerry Springer's" of the NFL. They just love to sensationalize(is that even a word?) stuff and make a lot of sarcastic comments. While I tend to really appreciate and enjoy MY sarcastic comments, theirs really annoy me.

DocBar
08-19-2007, 11:54 PM
Damn I wish the preseason would end! Why would anyone give a ****** about anything that comes fro "The Rumormill". Think back to the better coverage during the draft this kid was covered my dozens of draft services and many including scouts inc contradict what is said here.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft07/insider/news/story?id=2850167&univLogin02=stateChanged

The pick: Amobi Okoye, DT, Louisville
Scouts take: The Texans had a more pressing need at corner and both of the top two were still on the board at the No. 10 pick. Either Darrelle Revis or Leon Hall would be great values at this pick and fill a more pressing need. That has to be noted, but Okoye is still an excellent pick and the reason is great defenses are built from the inside out.

Okoye has excellent initial quickness, good strength and the frame to comfortably add weight. He can get after the passer and disrupt running plays in the backfield. In addition, defensive tackle is also a need and Okoye should compete for a starting role.
Amen, brother. Rep your way.

tulexan
08-20-2007, 02:47 PM
No way that Bush lived up to his ESPN "comes along once in a generation" hype.

Yeah, there is no way he is going to be better than Calvin Johnson (this draft's once in a generation player), Darren McFadden (next year's once in a generation player),...

GuerillaBlack
08-20-2007, 03:51 PM
Amen, brother. Rep your way.

I don't think he wrote that.

JohnsonFan
08-20-2007, 03:54 PM
but he pasted it...

real
08-20-2007, 03:57 PM
Its easier for a rook to come in and contribute in an established defense as opposed to having to come in and be the key member of a defense trying to find itself.

True.

But if the defense was sound before Mario was here he probably would have never been here as we probably wouldn't have been picking early enough to get him...

Rex King
08-20-2007, 09:04 PM
Okay, big picture questions:

An earlier post by Texans_Chick has me wondering about Richard Smith and just what this D is supposed to be about. I'm not sure what the identity/philosophy of this defense is supposed to be and what role the linemen play in it.

Are the linemen just supposed to keep the blockers occupied and let the LBs make the plays? That's the way Baltimore does it.

Are they supposed to play like Dungy's Cover-2 linemen (who are typically smallish but fast) and use their agility/speed to make plays?

What's his plan? And did we draft the right guys to pull it off?

Enquiring minds want to know.

Her other point is also good.

Its easier for a rook to come in and contribute in an established defense as opposed to having to come in and be the key member of a defense trying to find itself.

But if they all blossom together, it'll be a beautiful thing.

The beginning of last season suggested he wants to be able to get pressure with just the front four, with not a lot of blitzing. Of course, that could have been Smith trying to protect the secondary. The way Petey and Dunta play suggests they're willing to give up short-yardage gains, though that again could be just not wanting to expose the safeties. I'm not sure that he really has a philosophy as such, except what Kubiak has been espousing - stop the run, get to the QB, let the secondary make plays on the ball. At least the first part has improved from two years ago. I think it's going to be another year before we see exactly what he wants to do.

Double Barrel
08-21-2007, 12:28 AM
True.

But if the defense was sound before Mario was here he probably would have never been here as we probably wouldn't have been picking early enough to get him...

yep. A first overall pick is what builds those kind of defenses, too.

That is why it is so important to this organization and fanbase that he rise up to meet the expectations placed upon him. I'll grant him the time to learn the position, as even some of the great DE's struggled in the beginning. But there still has to be flashes of greatness to help with that patience thing.

AZwhoopr
08-21-2007, 01:06 AM
Yeah I hate to say it but I also think carricker is going to make more immediate impact in the NFL than Okoye. It seems like the Texans were dazzled by his young age, which made them think he had the edge over carricker in the draft.
I'm def. hopeful that he'll produce for us though. He's a tad small for a nose tackle, but he'll probably get bigger and he could use that 290 lb. weight for getting to the QB fast.

beerlover
08-21-2007, 02:25 AM
the fact Amobi Okoye is going to start @ the age of 20 in the NFL is something to admire alone. by the time he's 23/24 he could be a real force, meanwhile Mario will be 26 & coming into his prime, this bodes well for the future :d:

threetoedpete
08-21-2007, 02:38 AM
Yeah I hate to say it but I also think carricker is going to make more immediate impact in the NFL than Okoye. It seems like the Texans were dazzled by his young age, which made them think he had the edge over carricker in the draft.
I'm def. hopeful that he'll produce for us though. He's a tad small for a nose tackle, but he'll probably get bigger and he could use that 290 lb. weight for getting to the QB fast.

Nooooo, what they were dazzled by was the fact that his elite first step whipped everyone's a$$ who was draft eligable and at the senior bowl and lined up against him. You guys wanna put on your hind sight shades on now and say that guy is better than our guy based on two preseaon games, you're making a mistake. They got run stuffers all over the roster. Smith proved last year he can pull them off the street. What they didn't have was a pass rush presense at DT.
And they drafted one.

JohnsonFan
08-21-2007, 02:45 AM
the fact Amobi Okoye is going to start @ the age of 20 in the NFL is something to admire alone. by the time he's 23/24 he could be a real force, meanwhile Mario will be 26 & coming into his prime, this bodes well for the future :d:

yea okoye has so much time to shine, he has so much time to improve and progress

threetoedpete
08-21-2007, 02:57 AM
Well sixteen days left thank Christ.

You guys want something to rub your worry beads over. Worry about why in two seperate games against two different teams, in two different seasons, we can't run a double fire and get there. I don't know much, but I'd say the odds of that happening are prety rare. I dunno, but if I were to guess, I'd say someone on that defense is sending a tell to the other side when they send six. And what ever the tell is, everyone in the league ...apprently besides us, knows what the tell is.

Errant Hothy
08-21-2007, 10:33 AM
Yeah I hate to say it but I also think carricker is going to make more immediate impact in the NFL than Okoye. It seems like the Texans were dazzled by his young age, which made them think he had the edge over carricker in the draft.
I'm def. hopeful that he'll produce for us though. He's a tad small for a nose tackle, but he'll probably get bigger and he could use that 290 lb. weight for getting to the QB fast.

Dude, you can tell that after 3 1/2 quaters of pre-season football!!! Man, you must be a professional NFL scout or a football journalist or...I don't know...something. My god man, if you know so much why aren't you working for the Texans and helping this team get better. Or are you too busy running gel through Mel Kiper's hair?

Nobody, not on this baord, not in Houston, not on this planet; has seen enough of any of this year's rookies to know if they are going to be good (in realtion to where they were drafted) or not. That goes double for any rookie who plays on the lines.

Man, is it me or are the knee-jerk reactions worse this year then previous years?

real
08-21-2007, 10:38 AM
Not worried about Okoye...He's a stud...

HOU-TEX
08-21-2007, 10:53 AM
Not worried about Okoye...He's a stud...

He might be, but he's yet to show it. He's been blown up several times the past couple Saturdays.

I'm not saying he won't be a stud. I'm just sayin.:cool:

real
08-21-2007, 11:01 AM
He might be, but he's yet to show it. He's been blown up several times the past couple Saturdays.

I'm not saying he won't be a stud. I'm just sayin.:cool:

Strength and size issue...

The guys has the agility and mind to be an elite DT...

The strength and size will come...

bigbrewster2000
08-21-2007, 11:16 AM
He might be, but he's yet to show it. He's been blown up several times the past couple Saturdays.

I'm not saying he won't be a stud. I'm just sayin.:cool:

Most of us talked about this a few months ago. Okoye is going to have problems getting blown up this year. He is a rookie going up against cagey veterans on the opposing O-lines. Big stinking deal he gets "Blown Up" in preseason where it is his first time against this level of competition.

He has plenty of growing to do. He will be fine. All this talk is getting pretty silly.

Texan_Bill
08-21-2007, 11:19 AM
I have read responses to this on several other message boards, and the reaction is pretty consistent. That is, that its waaaaay to soon to even consider him a bust... This is coming from fans that take solice in dogging everything Texans....

HOU-TEX
08-21-2007, 11:21 AM
He might be, but he's yet to show it. He's been blown up several times the past couple Saturdays.

I'm not saying he won't be a stud. I'm just sayin.:cool:

Most of us talked about this a few months ago. Okoye is going to have problems getting blown up this year. He is a rookie going up against cagey veterans on the opposing O-lines. Big stinking deal he gets "Blown Up" in preseason where it is his first time against this level of competition.

He has plenty of growing to do. He will be fine. All this talk is getting pretty silly.

Take notice of the bolded statements. Relax champ:cowboy1:

bigbrewster2000
08-21-2007, 11:49 AM
Take notice of the bolded statements. Relax champ:cowboy1:

Fist, I am very relaxed, and not freaking at all. Second, I see the bolded statements. However my point I bring up is for the unbolded statements.

When you pop the "I'm just sayin" with the cool smiley in there at the end, it makes me think you are "sayin" something more :cool:

The1ApplePie
08-21-2007, 02:57 PM
Still trying to figure out on thing about the 2006 Draft:

Your team is the worst in the NFL. There is no leadership or culture of winning. The fans are pissed.

You have a shot at two team leaders in the draft, both have won a National Championship, both were up for the Heismand. Hometown hero and the best prospect in the draft. You just have to choose one...

And you take the mediocre DE from NC State?

I just want the logic of this explained to me.

bigbrewster2000
08-21-2007, 03:03 PM
Still trying to figure out on thing about the 2006 Draft:

Your team is the worst in the NFL. There is no leadership or culture of winning. The fans are pissed.

You have a shot at two team leaders in the draft, both have won a National Championship, both were up for the Heismand. Hometown hero and the best prospect in the draft. You just have to choose one...

And you take the mediocre DE from NC State?

I just want the logic of this explained to me.

First, what's a Heismand? :)

Second we have had an entire year and another draft since then to discuss that question and try to get an answer, and you will continue to wait for an answer for the rest of your life because you will obviously not get one.

It is probably time to drop it and move on unless you enjoy punishing yourself.

Vinny
08-21-2007, 03:08 PM
I have read responses to this on several other message boards, and the reaction is pretty consistent. That is, that its waaaaay to soon to even consider him a bust... This is coming from fans that take solice in dogging everything Texans....
you are right. he's not a bust at this time but he is certainly disappointing so far. I think there is a difference there.

threetoedpete
08-21-2007, 03:44 PM
Still trying to figure out on thing about the 2006 Draft:

Your team is the worst in the NFL. There is no leadership or culture of winning. The fans are pissed.

You have a shot at two team leaders in the draft, both have won a National Championship, both were up for the Heismand. Hometown hero and the best prospect in the draft. You just have to choose one...

And you take the mediocre DE from NC State?

I just want the logic of this explained to me.


In a nut shell, they weren't going to take Vincent 1. they had already resigned DC. Secondly and the camp I came down on BTW, he has yet to demenstrate in twelve years of football that he can or ever will be a decent
QB throwing er,...check that, passing the football. And he is never going to improve that.

Mr. McNair's agent waited three days for Reggie Bushe's agent to return a phone call. When he did return the phone call, RB's agent quoted a number so outragous, so riduculas, that Mr. McNair basically told RB's agent...FU. That phone call might of been one of the most expensive phone calls in NFL history.

Got it ?

bigbrewster2000
08-21-2007, 03:45 PM
you are right. he's not a bust at this time but he is certainly disappointing so far. I think there is a difference there.

Disappointing maybe. I guess that all depends on the person and the way that person looks at it. This is not really suprising to me. We should all know by now how long it takes for Dlinemen to to get in their groove.

But I do see how anyone could be disappointed in a guy that they havent seen any real production from yet albiet an extremely small sample size.

infantrycak
08-21-2007, 03:46 PM
Mr. McNair's agent waited three days for Reggie Bushe's agent to return a phone call. When he did return the phone call, RB's agent quoted a number so outragous, so riduculas, that Mr. McNair basically told RB's agent...FU. That phone call might of been one of the most expensive phone calls in NFL history.

Got it ?

Don't forget there have been reports that McNair didn't believe Bush was being honest about the house for his parents.

keyser
08-21-2007, 03:46 PM
I'm starting to lose track on whether this discussion is about Amobi or Mario. Assuming it's about Okoye, though:

Everyone seems to agree that he needs some time to mature, get used to the NFL-level game, etc. before he becomes the dominant player we hope for (and, people were saying this from the point he was drafted, so it's not like this is an excuse). I'm OK with that - I don't need immediate results (though with a top-10 draft pick, you'd hope for something soon). But, what I don't understand is that if this is true, we don't need to have him in there right now in the first string. It would be better for both his own development, and probably for our team's performance to work him in more gradually. It seems like we put him in as starter by virtue of his draft position, not because it's the best spot for him to be in, or even because he's the team's best option at DT.

I'm not talking about benching him for the season, I'm talking about starting with TJ or someone else at DT, and gradually working Amobi in more and more often, with the goal of getting him in as a starter, say, halfway through the season. If time to adjust is what he needs, this seems a better option than throwing him to the wolves right away.

bigbrewster2000
08-21-2007, 03:50 PM
I'm starting to lose track on whether this discussion is about Amobi or Mario. Assuming it's about Okoye, though:

Everyone seems to agree that he needs some time to mature, get used to the NFL-level game, etc. before he becomes the dominant player we hope for (and, people were saying this from the point he was drafted, so it's not like this is an excuse). I'm OK with that - I don't need immediate results (though with a top-10 draft pick, you'd hope for something soon). But, what I don't understand is that if this is true, we don't need to have him in there right now in the first string. It would be better for both his own development, and probably for our team's performance to work him in more gradually. It seems like we put him in as starter by virtue of his draft position, not because it's the best spot for him to be in, or even because he's the team's best option at DT.

I'm not talking about benching him for the season, I'm talking about starting with TJ or someone else at DT, and gradually working Amobi in more and more often, with the goal of getting him in as a starter, say, halfway through the season. If time to adjust is what he needs, this seems a better option than throwing him to the wolves right away.
That is probably why they are going to give TJ reps with the first team this week, so they can seehow productive he can be vs other ones. If he looks good he may end up taking some snaps from Okoye until he is ready to go.

threetoedpete
08-21-2007, 03:51 PM
Don't forget there have been reports that McNair didn't believe Bush was being honest about the house for his parents.

I beg your pardon. I was doing the quickie version. I figured that was all he could handle. That deffinalty didn't hurt that the house story broke in the middle of all that. The phone calll though....I think Mr. McNair is a good man. And I think RB's agent underestimated him. I also think no agent will under estimate him again.

threetoedpete
08-21-2007, 03:54 PM
That is probably why they are going to give TJ reps with the first team this week, so they can seehow productive he can be vs other ones. If he looks good he may end up taking some snaps from Okoye until he is ready to go.

OR, they are holding Maddox back for the regualr season and Feeding TJ to the beast. And the beast looked awefully houngry vs denver last weekend.

real
08-21-2007, 03:57 PM
what ?

bigbrewster2000
08-21-2007, 03:59 PM
OR, they are holding Maddox back for the regualr season and Feeding TJ to the beast. And the beast looked awefully houngry vs denver last weekend.

LOL.....I hate to say this but the girlz look pretty good so far.

As far as TJ goes.......Maybe, but I do tend to believe that the coaches want to evaluate TJ against the ones like they said they would in the paper.

threetoedpete
08-21-2007, 04:00 PM
what ?

I think Dallas is going to kill us next saturday. I 'm just hoping the polkes leave the bathroom fixtures behind.

real
08-21-2007, 04:08 PM
I think Dallas is going to kill us next saturday. I 'm just hoping the polkes leave the bathroom fixtures behind.


Schaub is going to be an elite QB in this leauge. You'd be surprised on how one of those can change a team...

The cowboys nor anyone else is going to kill us.

Vinny
08-21-2007, 04:17 PM
Disappointing maybe. I guess that all depends on the person and the way that person looks at it.
not being able to beat a journeyman like Mike Gandy once would qualify for me....not getting a sack in his last 7 regular season games would qualify for me...not hitting one mark on the stat line in the first two games out of 20 games this years qualifies for me. Being a disappointment is all about losing your individual battles when you play. Win some battles and the disappointment diminishes.

Vinny
08-21-2007, 04:19 PM
Mr. McNair's agent waited three days for Reggie Bushe's agent to return a phone call. When he did return the phone call, RB's agent quoted a number so outragous, so riduculas, that Mr. McNair basically told RB's agent...FU. That phone call might of been one of the most expensive phone calls in NFL history.

Got it ?
I seriously doubt that it went down like that because if it did, McNair would be an incredibly incompetent NFL owner.

Errant Hothy
08-21-2007, 04:21 PM
Still trying to figure out on thing about the 2006 Draft:

Your team is the worst in the NFL. There is no leadership or culture of winning. The fans are pissed.

You have a shot at two team leaders in the draft, both have won a National Championship, both were up for the Heismand. Hometown hero and the best prospect in the draft. You just have to choose one...

And you take the mediocre DE from NC State?

I just want the logic of this explained to me.

VY and who? I never recall Reggie being called a leader, and I was on the Reggie bandwagon.

Specnatz
08-21-2007, 04:35 PM
Still trying to figure out on thing about the 2006 Draft:

Your team is the worst in the NFL. There is no leadership or culture of winning. The fans are pissed.

You have a shot at two team leaders in the draft, both have won a National Championship, both were up for the Heismand. Hometown hero and the best prospect in the draft. You just have to choose one...

And you take the mediocre DE from NC State?

I just want the logic of this explained to me.


Seriously, saying anything in an argument about the hiesman and or national chanpions makes your argument more full of holes than swiss cheese. Where did troy smith get drafted?

threetoedpete
08-21-2007, 04:41 PM
I seriously doubt that it went down like that because if it did, McNair would be an incredibly incompetent NFL owner.

I can't recall the exact numbers and I'm not going to look it up again. but yes that is how it went down. RB wanted a lot of money up front....an unheard of amount up front as part of a sixty, and I stand to be correct on that number , million dollar deal. . He didn't get it from Bob McNair and he didn't get it from the
Saints either. The icing on the cake was the the free houdse story. That put the stake through the heart of the RB pick. He basically lied to McNair. And the only thing making them ( McNairs agents) wait three days on the return phone call got them was ill will. And Vinny say what you will, no owner out there is going to let any agent disrespect them like that. Nobody.

Texan_Bill
08-21-2007, 04:49 PM
Seriously, saying anything in an argument about the hiesman and or national chanpions makes your argument more full of holes than swiss cheese. Where did troy smith get drafted?

I think he was saying we should have drafted Chris Leak. He won a National Championship, he was considered for the Draddy Trophy (the academic Heisman) and he was a team leader...

Vinny
08-21-2007, 04:56 PM
I can't recall the exact numbers and I'm not going to look it up again. but yes that is how it went down. RB wanted a lot of money up front....an unheard of amount up front as part of a sixty, and I stand to be correct on that number , million dollar deal. . He didn't get it from Bob McNair and he didn't get it from the
Saints either. The icing on the cake was the the free houdse story. That put the stake through the heart of the RB pick. He basically lied to McNair. And the only thing making them ( McNairs agents) wait three days on the return phone call got them was ill will. And Vinny say what you will, no owner out there is going to let any agent disrespect them like that. Nobody.
well, when you negotiate you ask for the moon...negotiating 101

I posted a long while back that I thought we passed on Bush because of the interview with McNair.....no way we passed on him due to the large amount of money he was asking for. I think that is just something the press used to make McNair look foolish as the press tried over and over to imply the Texans were idiotic for passing on both Bush and Young.....if you are that worthless a negotiator you probably could never secure enough money to buy the Texans (unless you did a deal with Enron of course)....but I digress...My comment had more to do with the money thing...no way McNair just got a call, heard a huge number and told them to F'off.

infantrycak
08-21-2007, 04:59 PM
I can't recall the exact numbers and I'm not going to look it up again. but yes that is how it went down. RB wanted a lot of money up front....an unheard of amount up front as part of a sixty, and I stand to be correct on that number , million dollar deal.

FWIW--McClain has said money was not the issue and they weren't too far apart but the house was a big issue.

bigbrewster2000
08-21-2007, 05:00 PM
not being able to beat a journeyman like Mike Gandy once would qualify for me....not getting a sack in his last 7 regular season games would qualify for me...not hitting one mark on the stat line in the first two games out of 20 games this years qualifies for me. Being a disappointment is all about losing your individual battles when you play. Win some battles and the disappointment diminishes.

Isnt this an Amobi Thread? That is who I was talking about. Obviously you have Mario on the brain.

Vinny
08-21-2007, 05:03 PM
Isnt this an Amobi Thread? That is who I was talking about. Obviously you have Mario on the brain.yeah...sorry...I have been in 3-4 Mario threads and I get confused easily. :specnatz:

Texan_Bill
08-21-2007, 05:06 PM
Oooops... Sorry!! I got confused too.

bigbrewster2000
08-21-2007, 05:07 PM
yeah...sorry...I have been in 3-4 Mario threads and I get confused easily. :specnatz:

No problem. BTW, you seem awfully edgy in response to Mario lately. What gives? You do not seem to be your regular Vinny self the last day or two.

SeŮor Stan
08-21-2007, 05:08 PM
yeah...sorry...I have been in 3-4 Mario threads and I get confused easily. :specnatz:

Wait, I thought we were in the 4-3 not the 3-4...:specnatz:

Vinny
08-21-2007, 06:04 PM
No problem. BTW, you seem awfully edgy in response to Mario lately. What gives? You do not seem to be your regular Vinny self the last day or two.
gargantuan disappointment after hearing all off-season that he has new pass rushing moves and how he "gets it". I started to see the fans say it takes a few years and not to discuss his game till year 3 (I'll call this the DC syndrome)....I guess it triggered some mania! Unlike baseball or basketball, the NFL season is a sprint...we only get 20 looks at our team and now we have 18 to go (assuming we don't make the playoffs).

Double Barrel
08-21-2007, 06:10 PM
gargantuan disappointment after hearing all off-season that he has new pass rushing moves and how he "gets it". I started to see the fans say it takes a few years and not to discuss his game till year 3 (I'll call this the DC syndrome)....I guess it triggered some mania! Unlike baseball or basketball, the NFL season is a sprint...we only get 20 looks at our team and now we have 18 to go (assuming we don't make the playoffs).

I'm starting to see a pattern of off-season comments amounting to nothing more than inflated hopes and sales pitches.

I should hibernate right after the Super Bowl and set the alarm clock for late-July.

AZwhoopr
08-21-2007, 07:05 PM
Dude, you can tell that after 3 1/2 quaters of pre-season football!!! Man, you must be a professional NFL scout or a football journalist or...I don't know...something. My god man, if you know so much why aren't you working for the Texans and helping this team get better. Or are you too busy running gel through Mel Kiper's hair?

Nobody, not on this baord, not in Houston, not on this planet; has seen enough of any of this year's rookies to know if they are going to be good (in realtion to where they were drafted) or not. That goes double for any rookie who plays on the lines.

Man, is it me or are the knee-jerk reactions worse this year then previous years?

lol I'm not going by what's going on thus far in the year. I haven't even looked at what carricker nor okoye have done in the preseason. I'm just going by what each player has to work with. Carrickers got veteran former pro-bowl nose tackle laroi glover to tutor him. Okoye doesn't really have that. I like how we brought in zgonia to help him out, but what has zgonia really done in his career? Carricker's also got leonard little next to him which will draw some attention away from him on the line. Mario could be that guy for us, and i'm hopeful that he is, but he's got to play better this season to do it obviously. Okoye and mario can both make eachother better.:cool:

Errant Hothy
08-21-2007, 07:17 PM
lol I'm not going by what's going on thus far in the year. I haven't even looked at what carricker nor okoye have done in the preseason. I'm just going by what each player has to work with. Carrickers got veteran former pro-bowl nose tackle laroi glover to tutor him. Okoye doesn't really have that. I like how we brought in zgonia to help him out, but what has zgonia really done in his career? Carricker's also got leonard little next to him which will draw some attention away from him on the line. Mario could be that guy for us, and i'm hopeful that he is, but he's got to play better this season to do it obviously. Okoye and mario can both make eachother better.:cool:

So you're basing it only on who each player gets to play with? By that reasoning you should think that Anthony Gonzalez will have a biiger impact then Calvin Johnson...right? I mean Gonzalez has Peyton at QB, and Harrison and that stable of good TE's to play with; who's CJ got Kitna.

I find this a really odd way to evaluate rookies.

AZwhoopr
08-21-2007, 07:25 PM
So you're basing it only on who each player gets to play with? By that reasoning you should think that Anthony Gonzalez will have a biiger impact then Calvin Johnson...right? I mean Gonzalez has Peyton at QB, and Harrison and that stable of good TE's to play with; who's CJ got Kitna.

I find this a really odd way to evaluate rookies.

lol well obviously gonzalez won't have a better year than CJ. But i def. think he could if he wasn't a slot receiver and started. Who knew who reggie wayne or brandon stokley were until they were put onto the same team as Manning? It may be odd but I just think a player is only as good as his teammates. I've always gone by that. (Ex. Moss isn't good without Culpepper)

Errant Hothy
08-21-2007, 07:35 PM
lol well obviously gonzalez won't have a better year than CJ. But i def. think he could if he wasn't a slot receiver and started. Who knew who reggie wayne or brandon stokley were until they were put onto the same team as Manning? It may be odd but I just think a player is only as good as his teammates. I've always gone by that. (Ex. Moss isn't good without Culpepper)

But by that standard wouldn't the guys draft in the back third of each round always be better then the guys picked in the top third; just becasue of the fact they are going to better teams?

AZwhoopr
08-21-2007, 08:14 PM
But by that standard wouldn't the guys draft in the back third of each round always be better then the guys picked in the top third; just becasue of the fact they are going to better teams?

In some cases, yes, a player drafted by a better team has a better chance at succeeding. However, take a look a mr. reggie bush. He was brought to a below-average team but he had a great surrounding crew in mccalister and brees so they helped make him a better player. Football IMO, next to soccer, is the biggest team sport. It's not a sport that can be dominated by one player(even manning needs help! lol). This is why i like football more than any other sport. Especially the NBA which has too many ball hogs IMO! lol:bat:

real
08-21-2007, 08:29 PM
In some cases, yes, a player drafted by a better team has a better chance at succeeding. However, take a look a mr. reggie bush. He was brought to a below-average team but he had a great surrounding crew in mccalister and brees so they helped make him a better player. Football IMO, next to soccer, is the biggest team sport. It's not a sport that can be dominated by one player(even manning needs help! lol). This is why i like football more than any other sport. Especially the NBA which has too many ball hogs IMO! lol:bat:

That's called an excuse.


If you're doing your job people will notice it. You may not have success as a team if you're the only one doing your job, but getting jacked up at the line of scrimmage and losing one on one battles with the man in front of you doesn't equate to the team letting you down.

HoustonFrog
08-21-2007, 08:32 PM
FWIW--McClain has said money was not the issue and they weren't too far apart but the house was a big issue.

The way McClain told it the other day, the Wednesday before the draft they were set on Bush. He got a call from Charlie saying that Reggie had just left town and that they were bringing in Williams. McClain told him that he saw where it was going and that he knew they wanted him to write a story to get leverage. I may get this wrong but I believe Reeves had told them to just announce that Reggie was the guy and get it over with. To go along with what you said, it sounded like Reggie hadn't made the right impression. McClain said as of theat mid week, when he interviewed Mario, that Mario hadn't even talked to the Texans and that the Saints were his team. Mario said he understood if the Texans used him for leverage.

Take all of that with a grain of salt. Sounds to me that once McNair didn't like the story of Reggie that he didn't leave himself many options and they brought in Williams.

AZwhoopr
08-21-2007, 08:55 PM
That's called an excuse.


If you're doing your job people will notice it. You may not have success as a team if you're the only one doing your job, but getting jacked up at the line of scrimmage and losing one on one battles with the man in front of you doesn't equate to the team letting you down.

All I'm trying to say is that if Mario doesn't play well, he's not going to be receiving double coverage and more attention will be paid toward okoye. The same goes for every other d-lineman we have. I'm not making any excuses. Why do you think there are so many draft busts in the NFL and less in other sports like the MLB and NBA? Because some players never get a chance to play around a good supporting cast.(i.e. David Carr). In the NBA and MLB you can be good even without a good supporting cast. I'm not trying to say Okoye is going to be bad or anything, i'm just trying to make a point lol.

Koolaid Time
08-21-2007, 09:27 PM
Sounds to me that once McNair didn't like the story of Reggie that he didn't leave himself many options and they brought in Williams.

I heard that and the fact that someone involved in the house deal/ Reggie Bush "advisor" had some "shady" connections and that even NFL Security had questions..

The1ApplePie
08-21-2007, 11:32 PM
D-Linemen aren't QBs, they don't get the No Help excuse.

On the line, its you vs your guy. If you get your ass kicked, its your own fault. You can throw double teams in there, but double teams are part of the game, and one guy is almost always going to get doubled.

infantrycak
08-22-2007, 12:48 AM
I may get this wrong but I believe Reeves had told them to just announce that Reggie was the guy and get it over with.

Heard the same interview but you got the players backwards on this one part. CC was wanting to announce a deal with Reggie and Reeves was saying why would you do that, why not just wait and see what the Saints, Titans or Jets might offer to move up.

Second Honeymoon
08-22-2007, 01:32 AM
yup, everything went so crazy the days before the draft. it was a no brainer that we were getting Bush but obviously he made a bad impression on McNair. He probably did or said something that didn't fly with McNair. Could have possibly been involving the house for his family from an upstart sports marketing firm. Or maybe it had to do with Bush himself. He may have big leagued McNair or someone else close to him. Who knows.

One thing I do know is that there is no way that picking Mario was a football decision. It was a personal decision and a high stakes game of Poker. They should have just traded #1 overall pick and stockpiled picks. Mario should have gone like 4th or 5th that day. Trade Bush to the Jets and draft Ferguson or Mario if they were so damn in love with him.

Mario just looks like a flatliner.....I hope he proves me wrong someday...

infantrycak
08-22-2007, 01:46 AM
Mario should have gone like 4th or 5th that day.

Mario was never going past #2. McClain just addressed this yesterday and said the AJ Hawk stuff that came up after the draft was BS and the Saints were all over Mario. As for trading with the Jets, that is easy to say, but they have to offer something and we don't know they ever did. It's easy to say trade for anything, but the MB's and radio would have been lighting up if the Texans took a 4th or even a 3rd to move down and the chart said it wasn't good value.

Texanmike02
08-22-2007, 01:52 AM
Carricker's also got leonard little next to him which means he will learn how to drink and drive in the offseason

figured that i should fix the error

Mike

threetoedpete
08-22-2007, 02:43 AM
All I'm trying to say is that if Mario doesn't play well, he's not going to be receiving double coverage and more attention will be paid toward okoye. The same goes for every other d-lineman we have. I'm not making any excuses. Why do you think there are so many draft busts in the NFL and less in other sports like the MLB and NBA? Because some players never get a chance to play around a good supporting cast.(i.e. David Carr). In the NBA and MLB you can be good even without a good supporting cast. I'm not trying to say Okoye is going to be bad or anything, i'm just trying to make a point lol.

It's not the double teams. That isn't the issue. Look at the passing plays and notice the third step and the pad level and the position of leverage or lack there of that Mario has. This is the issue with him. In other words currently, he is being handled regularly with just the OLT. This is the problem. Kubes knows it. Richard Smith Knows it. Jethro Franklin knows it. And Mario knows it. That is the problem. I've said everything I've had to say about the suppoprting d-line cast. Believe what you want. All I know is twenty something turnovers isn't going to cut it if you're looking for 9-7. And unless our second day guys in the back four are getting support from first round guys in the d-line it will be very difficult for them to move that number up to where it ought to be to reach 9-7.

So have we slayed the "we should of moved down and taken so and so" , "we should of taken Vincent", " we should of taken RB" , dragon once and for all ? I doubt it. No one is ever going to know for sure what happened. Charley Casserly has held that he had no offers for three weeks for the pick. He has said this both as an empolyee of the Texans and as a CBS guru. He stated flatly that he couldn't move the pick even up untill that Wensday. It was an option of giving the pick away or taking the best deffensive player on the board at that time. In hindsight, the disaster was resigning DC. That painted them into a corner in the '06 draft which left them, as it played out, with few options. If the new HC says he can save him, what do you do ? But that move took VY, or any other QB available, off their board in '06 .

The1ApplePie
08-22-2007, 11:02 AM
Mario was never going past #2. McClain just addressed this yesterday and said the AJ Hawk stuff that came up after the draft was BS and the Saints were all over Mario. As for trading with the Jets, that is easy to say, but they have to offer something and we don't know they ever did. It's easy to say trade for anything, but the MB's and radio would have been lighting up if the Texans took a 4th or even a 3rd to move down and the chart said it wasn't good value.

Didn't Payton say they wanted AJ Hawk?

I figure a team with two stud DEs and no LBs would probably pick LB.

bigbrewster2000
08-22-2007, 11:07 AM
This is supposed to be an Amobi thread. There are 3 Mario Treads all talking about the same exact crud. Stop the madness. Ocho stinko all over again:wheel: :deadhorse

infantrycak
08-22-2007, 11:44 AM
Didn't Payton say they wanted AJ Hawk?.

There was some internet chatter about their pick having been Hawk after the draft but just this week McClain said he talked to someone with the organization and that was BS.

TK_Gamer
08-22-2007, 12:08 PM
So, does that mean calling him a bust . . . was premature? (not saying you did, but a LOT of people did, and still do)

And if that's the case, is calling Mario, Travis, and Amobi busts premature?

Does it prove the point that you have to wait 3 or 4 years before you can label a DL a bust?

It would seem to be the case, yes, no?


Yes, at least in my opinion anyway. I'm not saying I want to wait 4 years for our D-line picks to develop, but it that's what it takes then I'll wait patiently and pray for the QB's of the teams that face us after we reach that point.

I'm no expert, but in my lifetime hobby of watching football, I've noticed a few things...

1) College players are rated on their play in college and rarely does it equate to play in the NFL.

2) College players almost always excel from physical gifts and possess very few skills that will help them in the NFL. Instincts yes, but not skills.

3) Everything has a learning curve that is subject to the level of competition. So until you play a while against the big boys, you are not going to overcome that curve.

4) I think this is one of the most important

Every athlete in order to progress to veteran, star, or even superstar status must reach their own comfort and confidence level. Then it seems like a switch is flipped on some of them and they just "Get it"

unfortunately in the course of this process many athletes run out of time and are discarded. Some go on to other teams and reach their peak there while sadly others become camp fodder year after year, or languish in 3rd string position indefinitely.

All we can do as fans is cheer on our guys and hope they end up in one of the more positive groups. I think we have several players that are somewhere in between. We will just have to hope and wait and see.

Go Texans!

beerlover
08-23-2007, 04:07 PM
simply put Amobi was the top prospect left on the Texans draft board thats why they took him (draw your own conclusions why).

having the 1st pick & the choice to negoiate, sign, seal & deliver draft day has hurt the Texans more than its helped. while meaning to do the "right thing" they've screwed each opportunity to select the best player available. This process implemented by the Texans has been their achilles heel (in hindsight) & hopefully will be amended for future reference :cool:

The Pencil Neck
08-23-2007, 04:29 PM
simply put Amobi was the top prospect left on the Texans draft board thats why they took him (draw your own conclusions why).

having the 1st pick & the choice to negoiate, sign, seal & deliver draft day has hurt the Texans more than its helped. while meaning to do the "right thing" they've screwed each opportunity to select the best player available. This process implemented by the Texans has been their achilles heel (in hindsight) & hopefully will be amended for future reference :cool:

I thought at the time that they said that Amobi wasn't just the top prospect left on their draft board but that he was the TOP player on their defensive draft board. Top of the WHOLE defensive draft board. In other words, ahead of Landry, Anderson, Adams, etc.

DiehardChris
08-23-2007, 10:21 PM
I for one was a little concerned about the Petrino angle... but I trust Rick Smith and Kubiak, so I give them the benefit of the doubt.

Sometimes I think the guy from PFT.com just makes up stuff on his own, though. I like his site, but man, he isn't kidding when he calls it 'the rumor mill'.

the wonger need food
10-05-2007, 07:51 PM
Sometimes I think the guy from PFT.com just makes up stuff on his own, though. I like his site, but man, he isn't kidding when he calls it 'the rumor mill'.


PFT admits their mistake. Good for them...

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm


So much for those rumors that Texans defensive tackle Amobi Okoye was destined to be a bust. Instead, he's the NFL's rookie of the month for September.

Okoye notched 4.0 sacks and forced a fumble in his first four NFL games, and also made 10 tackles. At only 20 years of age, he was the No. 10 overall selection in the draft.


BTW... Carriker has zero sacks and a whole 4 tackles...

real
10-06-2007, 12:50 AM
Tommie Harris is another young DT who entered the leauge at age 20...

He too played less than stellar trying to adjust to the strength of NFL O-linemen...

I saw some good things out of Okoye today...

For instance...If you can go back and watch the game look at that 4th and 1 stop we had....Okoye is down towards the bottom of the screen...The guard in front of him tries to block him and Levi Brown is trying to block don on him...

Okoye made the guard whiff and eat dirt and when Brown tried to block down on him he used a spin move and made Levi whiff...He didn't make the play, but he would have if the RB had come towards him...Instead he arrived on the scene a second too late...It was a great move...

I heard someone talking earlier about how Okoye was the one "standing next to the pile", but go back and take a look at how he got there...

Give the guy time to develop...He's doing some good things down there in the trenches and within years the guy is going to be a beast....We are going to see some good things from Okoye this year...This is a kid that will show flashes...

Keep it up Amobi....

b0ng
10-06-2007, 08:43 PM
PFT admits their mistake. Good for them...

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm



And with that, this entire thread is rendered useless.

ArlingtonTexan
10-06-2007, 09:57 PM
And with that, this entire thread is rendered useless.

For as much as people rag on that site, it really is one the most above board site on the net. they admit they are rumor mongers, admit when they make a mistake and give credit to others when a story is broke somewhere else first. "they are what we think they are"