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View Full Version : Is it time for Kubiak to START Jacoby and Mathis TOGETHER?


GP
08-17-2007, 12:37 AM
What's the deal with Walter getting a pre-camp blessing as the No. 2 WR...when Jacoby and Mathis have both outplayed him in both camp and in the preseason thus far?

What kept Kubiak from anointing Mathis or even Jacoby as the future WR alongside AJ?

Is this a situation of utilizing a system of tenure or seniority by Kubiak, giving the veteran Walter the go-ahead...knowing full well that two guys (Mathis and Jacoby) are technically more talented and have more overall ability than the veteran Walter?

Who do you think is the best fit after AJ and Owen Daniels?

Is there room for both Jerome and Jacoby on the field at the same time, or does it need to be a true "either/or" deal where only one of them is featured the majority of the time on the field?

JohnsonFan
08-17-2007, 12:43 AM
give it to mathis now!

Marcus
08-17-2007, 12:57 AM
How bout letting Kubiak make the decision as to who starts at WR and who doesn't there, skippy?

You already ran off on the other thread about how you think Kubiak wants to keep Mathis down, when he in fact, has been praising him all camp.

Like someone else said, you oughta think about stepping away from the ledge.:gun:

brakos82
08-17-2007, 01:01 AM
How bout letting Kubiak make the decision as to who starts at WR and who doesn't there, skippy?

You already ran off on the other thread about how you think Kubiak wants to keep Mathis down, when he in fact, has been praising him all camp.

Like someone else said, you oughta think about stepping away from the ledge.:gun:

You can drown by flying through the air... I saw it on Monk one time...

hadaad
08-17-2007, 02:16 AM
I'd like to see what Mathis can do. That kind of speed would be dangerous if he can run a route.

I'm not saying he can, not saying he can't. I don't get the opportunity to watch the games.
I also like what I've heard about Jones. Should be an interesting battle.

but if you're keeping Johnson, Mathis, Jones and Daniels on the field long-term, you're wasting a great punishing fullback in Vonta Leach (assuming you want Green on the field, too).

JohnsonFan
08-17-2007, 02:23 AM
How bout letting Kubiak make the decision as to who starts at WR and who doesn't there, skippy?

You already ran off on the other thread about how you think Kubiak wants to keep Mathis down, when he in fact, has been praising him all camp.

Like someone else said, you oughta think about stepping away from the ledge.:gun:
lol i was quoting the answer above where it says start mathis now, chill its alright

Malloy
08-17-2007, 04:24 AM
lol i was quoting the answer above where it says start mathis now, chill its alright

Perhaps the comment was not directed at you ?

PapaL
08-17-2007, 06:59 AM
Either way we will be fine. So far both of them have shined. I'm still pulling for Mathis though.

rmartin65
08-17-2007, 08:51 AM
Run 3 reciever sets most of the time. That makes it easy. When they start dropping back for the pass, Green runs up the gut.

Marcus
08-17-2007, 08:53 AM
Perhaps the comment was not directed at you ?

It wasn't.

DBCooper
08-17-2007, 09:17 AM
I would love to Jones as the #2. Bring Mathis in the slot.

They need to give Jones as many reps as he can get, so he can get used to the Pro game.

Texans_Chick
08-17-2007, 09:32 AM
What's the deal with Walter getting a pre-camp blessing as the No. 2 WR...when Jacoby and Mathis have both outplayed him in both camp and in the preseason thus far?

What kept Kubiak from anointing Mathis or even Jacoby as the future WR alongside AJ?

Is this a situation of utilizing a system of tenure or seniority by Kubiak, giving the veteran Walter the go-ahead...knowing full well that two guys (Mathis and Jacoby) are technically more talented and have more overall ability than the veteran Walter?

Who do you think is the best fit after AJ and Owen Daniels?

Is there room for both Jerome and Jacoby on the field at the same time, or does it need to be a true "either/or" deal where only one of them is featured the majority of the time on the field?


My opinions:

Jones and Mathis have more speed.

Walter through Kubiak's experience with him has good hands (wasn't shown in one pass during the preseason game against the first team). Especially with a new quarterback, he wants receivers to run sound routes, and Walter has more experience with the offense.

Jones is fast, but is not technically sound. He is learning route running etc. He still drops balls. He's a rookie from a small school--this game is hard enough for wide receiver rookies from big schools.

Mathis is fast but he is Mr. Glass. Personally, I would like to see him on offense only with designed gadget plays for him. I think if you use him too much on offense and also on ST, you are going to blow him up.

I don't think Kubiak annoints anyone. He said Walter was the #2 position because he earned it due to his hard work and play. (He likes talking guys up for their hard work and giving them playing time as an example to the team of what hard work does). But if someone is playing better than him, he is going to get bumped. It would non-surprise me if Jones ends up being the #2 at some point in the season if he shows the game isn't too big for him.

Goldensilence
08-17-2007, 10:35 AM
Mathis is fast but he is Mr. Glass. Personally, I would like to see him on offense only with designed gadget plays for him. I think if you use him too much on offense and also on ST, you are going to blow him up.

TC i think ya put it perfectly. Kind of the way Randal-El was used in Pit gadget and ST wise.

I don't think Kubiak annoints anyone. He said Walter was the #2 position because he earned it due to his hard work and play. (He likes talking guys up for their hard work and giving them playing time as an example to the team of what hard work does). But if someone is playing better than him, he is going to get bumped. It would non-surprise me if Jones ends up being the #2 at some point in the season if he shows the game isn't too big for him.

Excellent point about the transition not only from college mind you, but a small program like Lane. If he keeps playing like i hear and works on his routes.... i think he'll push for PT this year. His attitude seems fit for it as well.

Yankee_In_TX
08-17-2007, 10:37 AM
IMO:

Dre
Jones/Mathis
?????

Davis or Walter or Keenan

2 of those 3, sorry Bethel and the other guys.

real
08-17-2007, 10:40 AM
I don't want Keenan McCardell on this team...

Low Key I'm pulling for David Anderson to make the squad...

Yankee_In_TX
08-17-2007, 10:41 AM
I don't want Keenan McCardell on this team...

Low Key I'm pulling for David Anderson to make the squad...

I don't know because I haven't seen him play yet....!?

real
08-17-2007, 10:47 AM
Wasn't there a thread about Jacoby starting this week ?

badboy
08-17-2007, 11:02 AM
What's the deal with Walter getting a pre-camp blessing as the No. 2 WR...when Jacoby and Mathis have both outplayed him in both camp and in the preseason thus far?

What kept Kubiak from anointing Mathis or even Jacoby as the future WR alongside AJ?

Is this a situation of utilizing a system of tenure or seniority by Kubiak, giving the veteran Walter the go-ahead...knowing full well that two guys (Mathis and Jacoby) are technically more talented and have more overall ability than the veteran Walter?

Who do you think is the best fit after AJ and Owen Daniels?

Is there room for both Jerome and Jacoby on the field at the same time, or does it need to be a true "either/or" deal where only one of them is featured the majority of the time on the field?

With Kubes saying he erred last season by not giving Walter more plays, I think naming him #2 did several things. It took pressure off Walter and put it right back on the coach. I respect Kubiak for that. I imo put the other receivers on notice that #1 & #2 spots are taken. If you want to be here this season you better bring your 'A' game. At the time of the Coronation, there was doubt about Mathis and only dreams about Jacoby. Also, if you name Mathis #2 as you suggest and he is cut before game one due to health, you look pretty stupid. The play of both should drive Walter as Kube can say "look you are the season player. You going to allow these two kids to make you and me look bad?" It should also make the old timers feel good as Coach knows they bring something to the table other than talent. IMO AJ is the only one who could "take time off between plays" and not worry about it. He is not the type to do that.

Mathis: I am focusing on his return skills and 1-3 plays a game as a WR on an end around or deep threat. Even if it is just a diversion. If he can just hold on to the ball, his speed and bring a sweet dimension to the offense.

Jacoby: I want to see how he does Saturday, before he supplants Walter, who just might have a say in this himself.

kiwitexansfan
08-17-2007, 07:45 PM
I would say Jones has the better receiver skill set so start him, Mathis would be a nightmare in the slot for S or LB to worry about.

nfl-brit
08-17-2007, 07:47 PM
Appoint Mathis and let him get settled in ASAP. Lots of practice, lots of routes and catches - let the lad get some confidence at the position.

"Train hard, fight easy"

GP
08-17-2007, 08:03 PM
delete

GP
08-17-2007, 08:10 PM
Wasn't there a thread about Jacoby starting this week ?

Uh.....yeah, so what's your point?

My point in this thread was to see if posters think Jacoby should start the remainder of preseason games, let Mathis start the remainder of preseason games, or let the three guys battle it out the remainder of the preseason.

I personally think Jacoby, in one game, has lapped Walter.

IMO, Walter is too far behind to make any sort of move to hold onto the No. 2 spot. So, might as well go ahead and get Jacoby all the in-game experience and timing that he can get with Schaub, AJ, and vs. 1st string DBs on opposing teams this preseason.

I didn't anticipate having so many people not understand that the purpose of this thread was to spark debate and discussion about the three WRs who are battling for the next depth chart spot.

Seems there's quite a few posters who want to reply with snappy one-liners and well-worded smack talk...instead of debating the issue/topic.

(shrugs shoulders, shakes head)

GP
08-17-2007, 08:26 PM
My opinions:

Jones and Mathis have more speed.

Walter through Kubiak's experience with him has good hands (wasn't shown in one pass during the preseason game against the first team). Especially with a new quarterback, he wants receivers to run sound routes, and Walter has more experience with the offense.

Jones is fast, but is not technically sound. He is learning route running etc. He still drops balls. He's a rookie from a small school--this game is hard enough for wide receiver rookies from big schools.

Mathis is fast but he is Mr. Glass. Personally, I would like to see him on offense only with designed gadget plays for him. I think if you use him too much on offense and also on ST, you are going to blow him up.

I don't think Kubiak annoints anyone. He said Walter was the #2 position because he earned it due to his hard work and play. (He likes talking guys up for their hard work and giving them playing time as an example to the team of what hard work does). But if someone is playing better than him, he is going to get bumped. It would non-surprise me if Jones ends up being the #2 at some point in the season if he shows the game isn't too big for him.

Well, maybe Kubiak should take a different direction with naming players to certain roster depth spots (so early in camp, at least).

I personally would like him to stay fairly quiet and reserved with the media about who is doing what.

It blew up in his face with Wali, and now with Walter.

But...I can see how he would want to show the other players that hard work gets you somewhere on his team. Still, I just think it was bizarre to have Walter crowned so early when you have Mathis and Jones.

And the more I think about it, the more I think that Kubiak has accepted that Mathis is a special teams and 2-or-3-gadget-play kinda' guy on this team. We've received GREAT field position too many times from Mathis for Kubiak to pull the "We need guys who can do more than one thing on the field" card.

Well, Coach Kubiak, Mathis does that one thing better than most other guys in the league. And we could use a few more "one thing" guys at several other spots on offense or defense.

I used to buy into the "Mathis is a jerk and he's going to blow it" mindset....but now I am drifting over to the "leave the guy alone and let him do his thing" crowd.

I would even dare say that Jerome Mathis has actually provided about the only form of NFL-caliber playmaking on the entire Texans team. Other than him, and maybe AJ a few times each season, what else is there that makes you sit on the edge of your seat like you do when Mathis is about to return a kick or punt? DeMeco gets a vote, I guess.

It's time for Kubiak to quit the posturing on this issue, and just accept that guys like Jacoby and Jerome are better than 15-year vets like Moulds and McCardell.

It just gets old watching Kubiak go "old" in terms of keeping the young guns in the holster while he shoots the old blackpowder muskets.

We need them for depth, but get Jerome and/or Jacoby out there and let them play. Let them drop some passes. Let them fumble a few passes. I'd rather see Jacoby get his hands on a ball and juggle it than watching Walter not even get to the ball.

real
08-17-2007, 08:40 PM
Seems there's quite a few posters who want to reply with snappy one-liners and well-worded smack talk...instead of debating the issue/topic.

(shrugs shoulders, shakes head)

LMAO off @ the internet tough guy....LOL

Your little man syndrome is annoying...

My comment wasn't directed towards you nor your thread...So you can relax if you'd like....or you can keep on doing what ever it is you're doing....makes no diff, to me...

Marcus
08-17-2007, 08:40 PM
gpshafer . . . you must be pretty thick if you can't understand why people might take exception to your accusations, implications, and insinuations, that Kubiak is not playing Mathis for other than the right reasons.

If you want to give opinions that basically question Kubiak's integrity for no good reason, then expect to get called on it.

This is not the first time you've done this.

jdog
08-18-2007, 10:39 AM
The depth chart of a football team is a lot like a company organizational chart.

You are promoted up the chart.

There are a lot of people on that chart. They are all needed and part of the organization, or they wouldn't be on the chart.

If you want all of the people to work, you have to give them an unspoken promise that their work will work them up the chart when the opportunity presents itself.

You can't have every new hot shot coming in and taking a spot at the top of the chart, or you'll have a problem on your hands with the other people as far as morale, effort, and internal strife. As I said earlier, you need all of these people.

Kubiak is giving the guys that have waited and worked a chance to move up the chart. It's why he's giving Jason Simmons a chance. It's why he's giving Kevin Walter a chance.

If they don't work out, obviously, it's someone else's turn, but you have to give them a shot. Otherwise, the organization will suffer.

Pantherstang84
08-18-2007, 10:55 AM
With Kubes saying he erred last season by not giving Walter more plays, I think naming him #2 did several things. It took pressure off Walter and put it right back on the coach. I respect Kubiak for that. I imo put the other receivers on notice that #1 & #2 spots are taken. If you want to be here this season you better bring your 'A' game. At the time of the Coronation, there was doubt about Mathis and only dreams about Jacoby. Also, if you name Mathis #2 as you suggest and he is cut before game one due to health, you look pretty stupid. The play of both should drive Walter as Kube can say "look you are the season player. You going to allow these two kids to make you and me look bad?" It should also make the old timers feel good as Coach knows they bring something to the table other than talent. IMO AJ is the only one who could "take time off between plays" and not worry about it. He is not the type to do that.

Mathis: I am focusing on his return skills and 1-3 plays a game as a WR on an end around or deep threat. Even if it is just a diversion. If he can just hold on to the ball, his speed and bring a sweet dimension to the offense.

Jacoby: I want to see how he does Saturday, before he supplants Walter, who just might have a say in this himself.

I had a diatribe prepared with these same remarks. BB you nailed it.

Before TC...

Jacoby=project
Mathis=????

Now that Jacoby is blossoming and Mathis is back in football shape, I see Jacoby and a healthy Jerome as a bonus.

tsip
08-18-2007, 02:13 PM
...bottom line, I personally don't care who it is, but I'm going to be very disappointed if we go another season w/o a vertical passing game. What exactly do we think our win/loss record is going to be if we throw fewer tds again this season than our 5 yr avg of 12?

...everyone knows we don't score enough points, because we've been told that at almost every post game press conference--here's hoping Kubiak can start turning that around this year!

Il_Bruno
08-18-2007, 07:31 PM
why do people want a decision right now? why dont they just let them fight it out until the season starts?