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MarioWrecksIt
08-11-2007, 11:59 PM
What I saw tonight from Mario was piss-poor. He couldn't get off blocks to stop the run, he over pursued at times, and got decent penetration just once. I don't know what his deal is and I know that it is just the first game of the preseason but I expected him to have a lot of energy and explosiveness tonight and I got neither. If he plays like this all season then we made a really big mistake by taking him No. 1. Hopefully he will come around and I think he will but tonight was not a good sign. On a lighter note DeMeco looked like a true pro bowler...I think he might be the most talented player on our team and yes that includes Andre. That kid looks just unbelievable.

TEXANRED
08-12-2007, 12:01 AM
What I saw tonight from Mario was piss-poor. He couldn't get off blocks to stop the run, he over pursued at times, and got decent penetration just once. I don't know what his deal is and I know that it is just the first game of the preseason but I expected him to have a lot of energy and explosiveness tonight and I got neither. If he plays like this all season then we made a really big mistake by taking him No. 1. Hopefully he will come around and I think he will but tonight was not a good sign. On a lighter note DeMeco looked like a true pro bowler...I think he might be the most talented player on our team and yes that includes Andre. That kid looks just unbelievable.

So you thought he would get ten sacks tonight?

Thorn
08-12-2007, 12:08 AM
Mario will rock this season.

MarioWrecksIt
08-12-2007, 12:08 AM
So you thought he would get ten sacks tonight?

No but I thought he would get up field a little bit, maybe show some good lateral pursuit and blow up the OT at least once...if we were watching the same game then you should agree that he did nothing to show that he has improved dramatically as the press has been telling us from last season. Not saying he won't be great this year but tonight was not a good showing. Nothing bad from him but nothing good.

TEXANRED
08-12-2007, 12:15 AM
No but I thought he would get up field a little bit, maybe show some good lateral pursuit and blow up the OT at least once...if we were watching the same game then you should agree that he did nothing to show that he has improved dramatically as the press has been telling us from last season. Not saying he won't be great this year but tonight was not a good showing. Nothing bad from him but nothing good.

Some people are slow starters. He wasn't really in the game much, hard to get a Good rhythm going. By the time the adrenaline wore off and he was able to settle down he was out of the game.

Not to worried right now. Its just the first preseason game. Now if he doesn't show anything when we play the Cowboys after three quarters, then I am gonna worry.

Htownsportsfan
08-12-2007, 12:22 AM
I am watChing the reply right now. First two plays of the game he drew double teams. First time Benson comes from the backfield to assist second two lineman double up and still had to grab jersey and hold. Next couple of plays were short drops were there was not time for pressure. He did get owned on one play but it happenS. He did have a few over pursuits but all in all I would say it was average. His first live action of the new season at a new playing weight and a healthy foot, I will reserve judgement for the regular season but he does need to step it up! Needs show why he was the first overall pick!

MarioWrecksIt
08-12-2007, 12:27 AM
I am watChing the reply right now. First two plays of the game he drew double teams. First time Benson comes from the backfield to assist second two lineman double up and still had to grab jersey and hold. Next couple of plays were short drops were there was not time for pressure. He did get owned on one play but it happenS. He did have a few over pursuits but all in all I would say it was average. His first live action of the new season at a new playing weight and a healthy foot, I will reserve judgement for the regular season but he does need to step it up! Needs show why he was the first overall pick!

Could not agree more. As I was saying I understand that this is the first preseason and the starters got limited snaps but I just thought he would be a little more explosive. Im not saying his season is going to be another average one by No. 1 pick standards but I didn't see much from him that impressed me. Still have complete faith in him but after what Ive heard and seen in training camp I guess I was just dying to see him dominate the OL. In time it will come tonight just wasnt his night.

Hardcore Texan
08-12-2007, 12:40 AM
I noticed him getting double teamed when I watched him.

Hagar
08-12-2007, 12:50 AM
I noticed him getting double teamed when I watched him.From what I remember, he was double teamed in the first set of downs. But after that he was pretty much handled by the tackle. Mario got burned on a couple of running plays as well, mostly due to overpursuing.

The other side of that is Mario was playing against John St. Clair all night, which is Chicago's second string LT. John Tait is first string and didn't play.

I know a lot of y'all aren't worried about this, but I am.

MarioWrecksIt
08-12-2007, 01:01 AM
Crap

MarioWrecksIt
08-12-2007, 01:02 AM
The other side of that is Mario was playing against John St. Clair all night, which is Chicago's second string LT. John Tait is first string and didn't play.

I know a lot of y'all aren't worried about this, but I am.

Wow didnt know St. Clair was 2nd string thats even worse news.

2BCF
08-12-2007, 01:10 AM
Was hoping for more from Mario too.
Trying not to get too discouraged, especially considering the limited playing time he had.

Leahmic223
08-12-2007, 01:15 AM
I wouldn't make too much of it. It's pre-season and he has nothing to prove in pre-season.

If he has a bad showing in pre-season some people will say "Oh look he still has not improved"

and if he has a good showing people are going to say "It's pre-season you don't know if the OT was giving full effort."

We don't know if Mario was giving full effort, he has RE pretty much secured, really no reason to go out there and give 100% if you have a spot secured.

Now if this was against the Cheifs i'd be a bit more worried, as it is though I saw him and said "OH well it's preseason."

But Travis Johnson did a good job on the limited time he got in, so did Amobe on a play or two. So that is good to know. Ahman Green didn't go out there and have a good showing...

Hookem Horns
08-12-2007, 01:58 AM
Needs show why he was the first overall pick!

Actually, it wasn't his fault he was the #1 pick. Most teams would not have had him at #1. He could have easily been a mid 1st rounder. He didn't have a great college career and most had not even heard of him until he hit the weight room during the NFL combines. Maybe the Texans need to explain why he was their #1 pick. At this point I will be happy if he just plays like a first rounder.

LORK 88
08-12-2007, 04:37 AM
Actually, it wasn't his fault he was the #1 pick. Most teams would not have had him at #1. He could have easily been a mid 1st rounder. He didn't have a great college career and most had not even heard of him until he hit the weight room during the NFL combines. Maybe the Texans need to explain why he was their #1 pick. At this point I will be happy if he just plays like a first rounder.
175 tackles and 25.5 sacks in his 36 game career isn't bad at all. His senior year was even better with 62 total tackles with 24 tackles for loss, 14.5 sacks, 15 hurries, a safety and a blocked kick. Say what you want about being disappointed in him in our 1st pre season game, but to say he didn't have a great college career is crazy.

Anyways, Mario looked alright tonight, it's really hard to gauge his pass rush skills when Grossman wouldn't throw the ball more than 5 yards. I still expect alot more from him, but it's only pre season, no need to worry.

ObsiWan
08-12-2007, 07:50 AM
Is it just me or does anyone else think that our 6'-7" man-child should go in with his ARMS UP. I've never seen him do that. If he isn't getting penetration or he sees its a short, 3-step route, why doesn't he raise those damned tree limbs and block a pass or two. At least take away the passing lane or obscure the QBs vision....

...is that too much to ask? Or would that be considered extra effort?

CloakNNNdagger
08-12-2007, 08:13 AM
I still intend to give Mario the benefit of the doubt through the preseason. But the "fire" that people are talking about, whether he reached the QB last night or not, was blatantly lacking. I can't help but go back to the Lamborghini video. That is the 1st time I had reason to doubt his maturity...........I think I now have a 2nd.

threetoedpete
08-12-2007, 08:22 AM
175 tackles and 25.5 sacks in his 36 game career isn't bad at all. His senior year was even better with 62 total tackles with 24 tackles for loss, 14.5 sacks, 15 hurries, a safety and a blocked kick. Say what you want about being disappointed in him in our 1st pre season game, but to say he didn't have a great college career is crazy.

Anyways, Mario looked alright tonight, it's really hard to gauge his pass rush skills when Grossman wouldn't throw the ball more than 5 yards. I still expect alot more from him, but it's only pre season, no need to worry.

Now that's a post worth a rep. Carr 's gone you hens gotta work youselves up about something...I guess Mario is going to be your whipping boy from here on out. I guess if he can't get there in two seconds that means he's a bust ? What i saw was a guy killing himslef tring to live up to expectations. The big news about last night was that we're loaded at DT and the odds are a couple of our guys we're going to see again on the other side of the field in another game down the road in a different uniform after we release them.

CloakNNNdagger
08-12-2007, 08:37 AM
Former No. 1 overall pick Mario Williams didn't make any noise in his first preseason outing. Williams played at left end on the first two series of the game. He had no tackles and no quarterback hurries.

"I was basically just going out there and running around and trying to get a feel for it and then making adjustments," Williams said. "I probably should have made some adjustments earlier since I was only out there for so long. But it's only preseason."

MARIO (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/5047341.html)

sakebomb
08-12-2007, 08:59 AM
Without a doubt Mario is now the new whipping boy.

Htownsportsfan
08-12-2007, 10:41 AM
Its unfair but Mario will be the whipping boy unless he can exceed peoples expectations, which is impossible for the 1st overall pick.

Is hard to watch the first a preseason game and judge to much. Both offenses and defesesive coordinators hold back on the play calling liek they are protecting natinal secrets. Thats why teams like Indy tend to lose in the pre season. I believe the Colts lost all four preseason games last year and still won the SB.

CT CSTM
08-12-2007, 10:48 AM
The guys that are locked into a starting position typically go at 3/4 speed in pre season...why should Mario go 200% and take a chance of reaggravating his ham string? or his foot? Do you think Pitts would have really sat out this game if it were regular season? Pre season is nothing more than 5% letting the starters gel for a few plays and 95% "job interview" for the 2 and 3 guys,,,you guys need to lay off,,,even the worst players on the field know way more about what is going on out there than most on this board,,,I'd say if you are qualified to give an opinion to what these guys are doing or not doing out there then wait till at least week 3 of the regular season,,,till then let the people getting paid to "whip" these guys use their professional experience to do so,,,bringing the Lambo video up to compare with his play last night is completely insane,,,

Vinny
08-12-2007, 11:26 AM
Mario looks imposing.....like a Lamborghini without an engine. I wasn't impressed with him at all last night.

The1ApplePie
08-12-2007, 11:48 AM
175 tackles and 25.5 sacks in his 36 game career isn't bad at all. His senior year was even better with 62 total tackles with 24 tackles for loss, 14.5 sacks, 15 hurries, a safety and a blocked kick. Say what you want about being disappointed in him in our 1st pre season game, but to say he didn't have a great college career is crazy.

Anyways, Mario looked alright tonight, it's really hard to gauge his pass rush skills when Grossman wouldn't throw the ball more than 5 yards. I still expect alot more from him, but it's only pre season, no need to worry.

Except most of those stats came from shoving over junior college linemen and getting sacks on their QBs. When he ran up against real college talent, he was thrown around like a blocking dummy.

Bush looked great at the end of the year, and is now really starting to hit his stride. Bush is well on his way to being one of the best offensive weapons in the NFL, while Mario is still trying to bullrush guys he has no chance of overpowering.

Spike
08-12-2007, 11:58 AM
I watched the first half again last night and I was disappointed with the way Mario played. It is pre-season and maybe he was just getting the feel of the game, but to generally state that he probably wasn't giving 100% is just another excuse. Even worse, if you read his quote in the paper, it looks like he is making the same excuse himself.

I am sure that there are established veterans who have proved themselves in the league who "take it easy" in preseason games, but to suggest that all starters do that is just wrong. It also begs the question - what does Mario feel that he has accomplished in the league that he can just walk through pre-season game action? Was he so over-powering last year that he feels that he doesn't have anything to work on with limited live-action snaps in the pre-season? I assume that he just thinks that he is just going to turn on the dominance he showed last year when the regular season starts.

I am not trying to be negative and I want Mario to succeed - I am tired of hearing about what a bad pick the Texans made last year, but most of all he needs to play well for the team to improve. Whether he likes it or not, he is expected to be a leader for this team. What would the reaction of this board have been in Matt Schaub stated, "Well, I over threw Walter on my last play, but I wasn't giving 100% to make a good throw because it is pre-season and it doesn't matter."

The pre-season should be spent getting in game shape and working on those areas of the game that each player needs to improve. Mario was a non-factor last night. Period. He isn't still getting used to the speed of the NFL. He isn't working on a bum foot. At the very least, Mario should be working on is effort every play this preseason.

Oh...OK, he just isn't giving 100%. Well, at least there is a reason.

Mr. White
08-12-2007, 12:02 PM
It's still too early to call the guy a bust yet, but I'm preparing myself for the possibility.

I'd like to see him get a little meaner. An interesting exchange from HBO's series "Hard Knocks:"

Rookie Tank Tyler: "What do you do when guys are holding you and pulling you down?"
4-year vet Jared Allen: "Kick 'em."

I couldn't help but think of Mario when I heard that, considering how much he was getting held last year.

Vinny
08-12-2007, 12:03 PM
I am not trying to be negative and I want Mario to succeed - I am tired of hearing about what a bad pick the Texans made last year...
we are going to keep hearing it till Mario proves them wrong...he needs to show something. There is no "later"....he needs to show something asap. Babin looks like a better edge rusher than Mario does at this point....heck, Babin had more sacks than Mario did last year.

tulexan
08-12-2007, 12:08 PM
For locked starters like Mario the goal of preseason is to stay healthy and not get hurt. I wouldn't really worry about anything he does or doesn't do in preseason.

TEXANRED
08-12-2007, 12:10 PM
Since we are talking about DE's.......

Was it my imagination or was all the pressure coming fromthe Left side last night? Kalu, Babin, Cochran. They were all getting pretty good pressure. Starting to get a little crowded over there when Weaver comes back.

Maybe we should start Babin and Cochran and bench Mario.

Then again, its just preseason and a little to early to tell.........

Spike
08-12-2007, 12:11 PM
For locked starters like Mario the goal of preseason is to stay healthy and not get hurt. I wouldn't really worry about anything he does or doesn't do in preseason.

If that is the true goal, they should all sit. Any football player can get hurt any time that he steps on the field. A lot of guys who have played football will tell you that you are more likely getting injured in live action by not going full speed.

Honoring Earl 34
08-12-2007, 12:19 PM
we are going to keep hearing it till Mario proves them wrong...he needs to show something. There is no "later"....he needs to show something asap. Babin looks like a better edge rusher than Mario does at this point....heck, Babin had more sacks than Mario did last year.

I think Mario gets another year . After that ... well ... Abatte seems to make the LB to FB move look easy and Mario looks like he trying to block the OT .

Vinny
08-12-2007, 12:20 PM
For locked starters like Mario the goal of preseason is to stay healthy and not get hurt. I wouldn't really worry about anything he does or doesn't do in preseason.that's David Carr needs 70 starts to prove something logic.....Mario needs to dominate or beat the player in front of him....whenever he plays....he has to show something at some point. The point you make is for guys like Andre Johnson or Peyton Manning...guys who have shown something in this league. Mario still has to prove he is an elite edge rusher...something he has never proven in the NFL.

Vinny
08-12-2007, 12:21 PM
I think Mario gets another year . After that ... well ... Abatte seems to make the LB to FB move look easy and Mario looks like he trying to block the OT .
Mario doesn't "get another year". He needs to play well now. All this waiting for tomorrow rubbish is the same mental illness that all the Carr lovers had.

Honoring Earl 34
08-12-2007, 12:24 PM
Mario doesn't "get another year". He needs to play well now. All this waiting for tomorrow rubbish is the same mental illness that all the Carr lovers had.

Actually I'd tell Mario his job this pre-season is to get in the backfield . I don't care if you get an offsides I want you to attack the line of scrimmage or I'll find someone who will .

Htownsportsfan
08-12-2007, 12:26 PM
Since we are talking about DE's.......

Was it my imagination or was all the pressure coming fromthe Left side last night? Kalu, Babin, Cochran. They were all getting pretty good pressure. Starting to get a little crowded over there when Weaver comes back.

Maybe we should start Babin and Cochran and bench Mario.

Then again, its just preseason and a little to early to tell.........

No it was not your imagination and its something you might better get prepared for! Kalu is going to be a far better pass rusher this year he is smart and athletic and whould be getting less attention due to the fact Okoye and Mario are going to draw allot of attention onthe opposite side whether deserved or not.

alphajoker
08-12-2007, 12:29 PM
Mario was real disappointing to me last night. I just watched the game again and there were quite a few times where he got locked up by the OT, and they would run his way untouched. He needs to shrug off his blockers better and get lower to increase leverage if he wants to be better against the run. As for his pass rushing, he didn't get to the QB at all except for maybe one time but he did draw a few double teams. One in which, freed up Amobi to come up the middle and hurry the QB. Overall the DL needs to get a better pass rush...I'm hoping things we will be better come next week.

jdog
08-12-2007, 12:31 PM
I'd tell Mario that every play is a battle for public opinion on his draft spot. Forget the ignore the media stuff. You know he can't. You know it burns him up. Channel that anger and frustration into those linemen every play. If you get beat one play that's one point for the bust crowd. If you beat the linemen, that's one point for you. If he can't get fired up with that kind of thinking, he ain't going to get fired up.

TEXANRED
08-12-2007, 12:35 PM
No it was not your imagination and its something you might better get prepared for! Kalu is going to be a far better pass rusher this year he is smart and athletic and whould be getting less attention due to the fact Okoye and Mario are going to draw allot of attention onthe opposite side whether deserved or not.

I was a Kalu fan back when he played for the Eagles. I was very excited when the Texans picked him up last year.

Marcus
08-12-2007, 01:24 PM
I know what I thought of Mario's effort last night. But there's nothing I can do to change it.

But I wonder what Kubiak thought of Mario's effort, and what he will do to change it.

And as far as getting pressure on the quarterback goes, the "it's only just preseason" excuse does not cut it, at all, so STOP SAYING IT. I commented on the lack of a pass rush after the 1st preseason game last year, and the chicken-little parade came out and stomped on me.

I've listened to that lame excuse for 6 years straight. "No pressure on the quarterback, well it's only preseason". Well, guess what folks? That quarterback had no pressure at all on him last night. And that's exactly what it will be the rest of the season . . . no pressure. Just like the last year, and the year before that, and the year before that, and the year before that, and the year before that.

The only positive I saw last night was it appeared that our new starting quarterback might be the real deal. But I don't care to hear anymore about how our secondary sucks, when nobody will acknowlege the real reason why it appears that they suck. They aren't getting it done up front . . . period.

TEXANRED
08-12-2007, 01:31 PM
I know what I thought of Mario's effort last night. But there's nothing I can do to change it.

But I wonder what Kubiak thought of Mario's effort, and what he will do to change it.

And as far as getting pressure on the quarterback goes, the "it's only just preseason" excuse does not cut it, all, so STOP SAYING IT. I commented on the lack of a pass rush after the 1st preseason game last year, and the chicken-little parade came out and stomped on me.

I've listened to that lame excuse for 6 years straight. "No pressure on the quarterback, well it's only preseason". Well, guess what folks? That quarterback had no pressure at all on him last night. And that's exactly what it will be the rest of the season . . . no pressure. Just like the last year, and the year before that, and the year before that, and the year before that, and the year before that.

The only positive I saw last night was it appeared that our new starting quarterback might be the real deal. But I don't care to hear anymore about how our secondary sucks, when nobody will acknowlege the real reason why it appears that they suck. They aren't getting it done up front . . . period.

Actually there was quit a bit of pressure last night. It just didnt come from Mario.

As I have mentioned before, Babin and Kalu found themselves in the defensive back field a few times last night. Cochran was owning his guy.

I thought the linebackers stepped up and stopped the run against a pretty good RB. The DB's kept everything in front of them for a change.

All in all it was a pretty good night for the 1&2's.

Wolf
08-12-2007, 01:32 PM
Mario doesn't "get another year". He needs to play well now. All this waiting for tomorrow rubbish is the same mental illness that all the Carr lovers had.

I agree with vinny. Granted some players had a better supporting cast but Shawne Merriman didn't need 2 years
Demarcus Ware didn't need 2 years

for example

now i am not saying the sky is falling on MW, I think he will (or hope) he will become a good one, I am just saying to follow vinny's logic

HotRodsHair
08-12-2007, 01:34 PM
Brand new poster here.

I was actually dissappointed with Mario last night myself. The spotlight is clearly on him, and I think Texans fans are kind of getting tired of defending his play with the traditional bevvy of excuses. The numbers say he is such a talented freek of nature, but his play just hasn't born that out yet. With the amount of hype behind his selection you really expect a guy out there who is almost unblockable. That's not what we are getting.

I fully understand how young he is and about his injury last year, but if someone is that talented you expect them to show you something really impressive at least once in a while, and I don't think we've gotten that. With his speed he should be able to get under and around the outside shoulder of his man, and with his strength he should be able to bull rush more. I didn't see either speed or strength displayed last night. He seems to lock up with the tackle and then never really get free.

He will probably get better, but so far I haven't really seen anything that makes me go "wow". I hope we don't spend this season continuing to make excuses for him.

We no longer have Carr to be distracted by.

utahmark
08-12-2007, 01:43 PM
I agree with vinny. Granted some players had a better supporting cast but Shawne Merriman didn't need 2 years
Demarcus Ware didn't need 2 years

for example

now i am not saying the sky is falling on MW, I think he will (or hope) he will become a good one, I am just saying to follow vinny's logic

i sure was hoping ware would fall to us that year. i think our staff liked him but he was already gone.

Marcus
08-12-2007, 01:45 PM
Actually there was quit a bit of pressure last night. It just didnt come from Mario.

As I have mentioned before, Babin and Kalu found themselves in the defensive back field a few times last night. Cochran was owning his guy.

I thought the linebackers stepped up and stopped the run against a pretty good RB. The DB's kept everything in front of them for a change.

All in all it was a pretty good night for the 1&2's.

And what was Rex Grossman's stats again last night? I forgot. Was he at least hurried in any of his throws? Forget about sacks. Did we 'bring pressure' on Grossman last night? We're talking about the same Rex Grossman that most of you wouldn't even swap you-know-you for, ya know???

Wolf
08-12-2007, 01:45 PM
Brand new poster here.

I was actually dissappointed with Mario last night myself. The spotlight is clearly on him, and I think Texans fans are kind of getting tired of defending his play with the traditional bevvy of excuses. The numbers say he is such a talented freek of nature, but his play just hasn't born that out yet. With the amount of hype behind his selection you really expect a guy out there who is almost unblockable. That's not what we are getting.

I fully understand how young he is and about his injury last year, but if someone is that talented you expect them to show you something really impressive at least once in a while, and I don't think we've gotten that. With his speed he should be able to get under and around the outside shoulder of his man, and with his strength he should be able to bull rush more. I didn't see either speed or strength displayed last night. He seems to lock up with the tackle and then never really get free.

He will probably get better, but so far I haven't really seen anything that makes me go "wow". I hope we don't spend this season continuing to make excuses for him.

We no longer have Carr to be distracted by.

welcome to the board :texflag:

Honoring Earl 34
08-12-2007, 01:45 PM
You learnt that, whatever you are doing in life, obstacles don't matter very much. Pain or other circumstances can be there, but if you want to do a job bad enough, you'll find a way to get it done.


Jack Youngblood

Wolf
08-12-2007, 01:47 PM
And what was Rex Grossman's stats again last night? I forgot. Was he at least hurried in any of his throws? Forget about sacks. Did we 'bring pressure' on Grossman last night? We're talking about the same Rex Grossman that most of you wouldn't even swap you-know-you for, ya know???

bears offense did a really good job of getting Grossman to get the ball out of his hands.. that olsen(rookie TE?) seems that he will be a very good help for Rex

Wolf
08-12-2007, 02:01 PM
not making excuses here just read this

Texans | M. Williams held out of practice
Fri, 3 Aug 2007 13:04:16 -0700

Megan Manfull and Dale Robertson, of the Houston Chronicle, report Houston Texans DE Mario Williams (hamstring) was held out of practice Thursday, Aug. 2.

http://www.kffl.com/team/18/NFL

I haven't had many hamstring injuries(for some reason Quads), but seems they are "bothersome" ..however with that said, I would think if it were something serious, MW wouldn't have played

Kaiser Toro
08-12-2007, 04:43 PM
Mario was unimpressive last night. However, the first defensive unit that he is on gave up no points to the first offensive unit of the Bears. The Texans D passed in my opinion. Style points dont mean jack crap in the NFL except with sports journalists, bloggers, agents and sponsors.

real
08-12-2007, 05:43 PM
I was very disappointed in Mario...

He looked exactly like he did last year, just skinnier.

Leahmic223
08-12-2007, 08:15 PM
Well duh Babin, Kalu, and Cochran played better...they have to try and get the best possible spot they can.

Mario is pretty much a locked starter at RE, there is no reason for him to give his sweat blood and tears in a pre-season game.

What is so hard to grasp...it is preseason. The games have no meaning to certified starters. Ahman Green didn't have a good game why isn't everyone getting on him? IT is just like that article said, you gys are going to find someone to whip on and it looks like Mario is going to be it.

Don't say "We should rip on him because he was the #1 pick blah blah blah" point is you guys are ripping on him...IN PRESEASON...

Like another poster said, coaches, teams, and players all hold off on pre-season. IF you have a secret weapon why put it on the field. The Colts had a bad preseason last year and the Raiders had a good one...yet guess what...Raiders finished last and Colts finished first in the actual season.

"We played em in preseason!!!" Shouted green when the Cardinals lost a game to the Bears...well that is the point...you played them in preseason and it didn't matter.

No doubt some of those guys are going to look impressive in Preseason...everyone that didn't have a 1st string spot looked good. JAcoby Jones played with more energy tahn Andre Johnson, so does that mean he is going to be a better WR than Johnson?

The thing is if Mario got 10 sacks in preseason what is going to be the thing then... "Its only preseason..." that is what everyone says when someone has a good preseason performance.

I heard it when the Lions threw for 500yards or whatever the hell they did "Yeah but it's only preseason." and when teams look bad in preseason than it becomes "There is no excuse not to perform well..."

I took nothing from the last preseason game because it was pre-season. Because the Bears had about 3 starters on defense sitting out.

Its almost as if people take outta preseason what they want to. If you don't think Mario is going to perform well then your natural reaction to his play is "There is just no excuse for that, So and so outplayed him" yeah because so and so is trying to start. If you think Mario is going to perform well then it becomes "Well I think he wasn't giving 100%" which you don't know or I don't know.

If you are completely neutral and if you are patient enough to let the actual season come then you realize...This is preseason, the games have no meaning at all to them only to test out some things...wipe off some rust...make sure guys are in game shape...so on so fourth...

Yet a guy out there got injured from our team because he was playing hard, because he tried to recover a fumble for us, and because he wants to make the team...

Once again folks...its preseason...chill out...

I know Mario STILL has to prove that he is a number pick...but no matter what he does, even if he gets 3 sacks on 3 plays...that completely becomes irrelevent when week 1 comes.

A lot players still gotta prove themselves. Bush has to prove he can actually be a RB rather than a WR. No one is going to prove anything in preseason...period.

jdog
08-12-2007, 08:27 PM
Well duh Babin, Kalu, and Cochran played better...they have to try and get the best possible spot they can.

Mario is pretty much a locked starter at RE, there is no reason for him to give his sweat blood and tears in a pre-season game.

What is so hard to grasp...it is preseason. The games have no meaning to certified starters. Ahman Green didn't have a good game why isn't everyone getting on him? IT is just like that article said, you gys are going to find someone to whip on and it looks like Mario is going to be it.

Don't say "We should rip on him because he was the #1 pick blah blah blah" point is you guys are ripping on him...IN PRESEASON...

Like another poster said, coaches, teams, and players all hold off on pre-season. IF you have a secret weapon why put it on the field. The Colts had a bad preseason last year and the Raiders had a good one...yet guess what...Raiders finished last and Colts finished first in the actual season.

"We played em in preseason!!!" Shouted green when the Cardinals lost a game to the Bears...well that is the point...you played them in preseason and it didn't matter.

No doubt some of those guys are going to look impressive in Preseason...everyone that didn't have a 1st string spot looked good. JAcoby Jones played with more energy tahn Andre Johnson, so does that mean he is going to be a better WR than Johnson?

The thing is if Mario got 10 sacks in preseason what is going to be the thing then... "Its only preseason..." that is what everyone says when someone has a good preseason performance.

I heard it when the Lions threw for 500yards or whatever the hell they did "Yeah but it's only preseason." and when teams look bad in preseason than it becomes "There is no excuse not to perform well..."

I took nothing from the last preseason game because it was pre-season. Because the Bears had about 3 starters on defense sitting out.

Its almost as if people take outta preseason what they want to. If you don't think Mario is going to perform well then your natural reaction to his play is "There is just no excuse for that, So and so outplayed him" yeah because so and so is trying to start. If you think Mario is going to perform well then it becomes "Well I think he wasn't giving 100%" which you don't know or I don't know.

If you are completely neutral and if you are patient enough to let the actual season come then you realize...This is preseason, the games have no meaning at all to them only to test out some things...wipe off some rust...make sure guys are in game shape...so on so fourth...

Yet a guy out there got injured from our team because he was playing hard, because he tried to recover a fumble for us, and because he wants to make the team...

Once again folks...its preseason...chill out...

I know Mario STILL has to prove that he is a number pick...but no matter what he does, even if he gets 3 sacks on 3 plays...that completely becomes irrelevent when week 1 comes.

A lot players still gotta prove themselves. Bush has to prove he can actually be a RB rather than a WR. No one is going to prove anything in preseason...period.

Sorry, Mario.

Leahmic223
08-12-2007, 08:33 PM
I'd tell Mario that every play is a battle for public opinion on his draft spot. Forget the ignore the media stuff. You know he can't. You know it burns him up. Channel that anger and frustration into those linemen every play. If you get beat one play that's one point for the bust crowd. If you beat the linemen, that's one point for you. If he can't get fired up with that kind of thinking, he ain't going to get fired up.

Yet no matter how many sacks he gets...NONE OF THEM MEAN ANYTHING!

I am replying to this post since your other one I couldn't reply to.

So really, every time he gets beat...it means nothing. Everytime he gets a sack it means nothing...

So every time he gets beat, a point is awarded to no one, everytime he gets a sack a point is awarded to no one...

I don't know why it always takes the regular season for people to realize that preseason games mean nothing.

Wolf
08-12-2007, 08:41 PM
Yet no matter how many sacks he gets...NONE OF THEM MEAN ANYTHING!

I am replying to this post since your other one I couldn't reply to.

So really, every time he gets beat...it means nothing. Everytime he gets a sack it means nothing...

So every time he gets beat, a point is awarded to no one, everytime he gets a sack a point is awarded to no one...

I don't know why it always takes the regular season for people to realize that preseason games mean nothing.

it does mean something, more times than not if you are getting beat in preseason, you are going to get beat in the regular season.... this isn't exhibition season like baseball, where you work on location and throwing strikes... this game is too fast (even in preseason) to work on a spin move.. that is what training camp is for... Preseason is working on gaining a 1st string spot on the roster

now i am not bashing MW , I think he will be good, but I don't think the majority of us saw much out of him yesterday.

Leahmic223
08-12-2007, 08:47 PM
it does mean something, more times than not if you are getting beat in preseason, you are going to get beat in the regular season.... this isn't exhibition season like baseball, where you work on location and throwing strikes... this game is too fast (even in preseason) to work on a spin move.. that is what training camp is for... Preseason is working on gaining a 1st string spot on the roster

now i am not bashing MW , I think he will be good, but I don't think the majority of us saw much out of him yesterday.

I understand he looked unimpressive out there.

But some of the same people that are talking about Mario are saying "Well hard to judge Schuab off of 5 passes..." and ignoring Green looked like he's lost a step out there.

When it comes to Mario though, it looks like he is going to be the new Whipping boy. Also since some people's expcetations are incredibly high of him, he will NEVER meet the expectations of some people no matter what he does unless he shatters every sack record.

If you are going to say "So and so didn't have enough time to prove himself" then say the same for Mario.

All I am saying is nothing is proved in preseason, never has been and never will be.

Let me ask you a question...or a few questions...

If Mario gets 8 sacks over the next 3 preseason games will that satisfy you?

If so, then what if he went on to get 4 sacks in the regular season...will you still be satisfied with his preseason performance?

Will you go back and say..."Well he's had a good preseason" ?

bayshorebevo
08-12-2007, 08:58 PM
After Mario's play last year, he needs to show some fire more than "it's just preseason". Demeco put the hammer down last year and all the people that say the Texans, Kubes, etc can do no wrong said Mario would have too except for that bum foot. That is complete crap. Mario needs to be positive all the time. Every week when the stats come out, right or wrong, he is going to be compared to the guys we passed up so we could pick a guy no-one knew anything about but did good at the combine. It's not his fault, but he needs to go 100% like Schaub has since he got here. I don't know anything about Schaub's ability and nobody but Schaub does either, but he sure as heck has a great attitude so far. Mario needs to show fire in his belly too because he has done absolutely nothing to make people forget that draft. I get real tired of hearing about the Texans 5 years from now. Demeco didn't wait, why should Mario.

Leahmic223
08-12-2007, 09:02 PM
After Mario's play last year, he needs to show some fire more than "it's just preseason". Demeco put the hammer down last year and all the people that say the Texans, Kubes, etc can do no wrong said Mario would have too except for that bum foot. That is complete crap. Mario needs to be positive all the time. Every week when the stats come out, right or wrong, he is going to be compared to the guys we passed up so we could pick a guy no-one knew anything about but did good at the combine. It's not his fault, but he needs to go 100% like Schaub has since he got here. I don't know anything about Schaub's ability and nobody but Schaub does either, but he sure as heck has a great attitude so far. Mario needs to show fire in his belly too because he has done absolutely nothing to make people forget that draft. I get real tired of hearing about the Texans 5 years from now. Demeco didn't wait, why should Mario.


I ask you and everyone who is getting on Mario for his preseason performance the same following questions...

If Mario gets 8 sacks over the next 3 preseason games will that satisfy you?

If so, then what if he went on to get 4 sacks in the regular season...will you still be satisfied with his preseason performance?

Will you go back and say..."Well he's had a good preseason" ?

The1ApplePie
08-12-2007, 09:04 PM
I figured Mario would actually step it up for the preseason, since he sucked it up last year and might want to start proving doubters wrong.

If Babin outplays him in preseason, maybe Kubes should bench is lazy ass for a few games.

DBCooper
08-12-2007, 09:18 PM
Preseason is a warmup. Just a mild stretching drill.

Mario is not playing to make the team in a preseason game.

Don't get hurt, Mario. You're gonna be a badass this year!

Leahmic223
08-12-2007, 09:23 PM
Preseason is a warmup. Just a mild stretching drill.

Mario is not playing to make the team in a preseason game.

Don't get hurt, Mario. You're gonna be a badass this year!

That is basically the point. Other than that, if someone can answer those questions right(really no right or wrong answer) but IMO it just seems like people are making Mario the new scapegoat.

Pre-season is so important that Tomlinson will be watching every single second of it on the bench...and not because of a injury...he just doesn't play pre-season.

Honoring Earl 34
08-12-2007, 09:24 PM
Jethro Franklin gets some help with the DL .

http://a2.vox.com/6a00c2251e85aff21900c22529c73a8e1d-500pi

Jules: The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

ccdude730
08-12-2007, 09:27 PM
Ezekiel 25:17

jdog
08-12-2007, 09:32 PM
I ask you and everyone who is getting on Mario for his preseason performance the same following questions...

If Mario gets 8 sacks over the next 3 preseason games will that satisfy you?

If so, then what if he went on to get 4 sacks in the regular season...will you still be satisfied with his preseason performance?

Will you go back and say..."Well he's had a good preseason" ?

Okay, your point is that the preseason does not matter, but what we are saying is that every play needs to matter to Mario. Every play!

Ahman Green didn't do well? Ahman Green's been to the Pro Bowl four times. Matt Schaub is getting plenty of heat as well. BUT it's his first game with the Texans...preseason or not. It's also Amobi's first game with us.

The reason it's different for Mario is because he has yet to show people something, and he was the first pick in a year when Reggie Bush and Vince Young were available. Is it fair? Maybe not. BUT he did get first pick money, and fans want to see first pick results...or at the very least...first pick effort.

jdog
08-12-2007, 09:38 PM
...and to add to my point...thank God they don't watch every minute of my performance on video at work because let's just say I take some plays off myself BUT if I was cashing million dollar paychecks AND I knew that the boss was watching my every move...I think I'd at least put forth real effort at every opportunity...but then again I live in an employment at will state...

The1ApplePie
08-12-2007, 09:38 PM
That is basically the point. Other than that, if someone can answer those questions right(really no right or wrong answer) but IMO it just seems like people are making Mario the new scapegoat.

Pre-season is so important that Tomlinson will be watching every single second of it on the bench...and not because of a injury...he just doesn't play pre-season.

LDT is a known as one of the best players, who doesn't need the work.

Mario is still a young player that didn't do **** last year. Mario is a freak athlete, so he is used to getting by on his physical skills alone, so his effort is going to be lacking, but he comes off a a lazy player, last night being no different.

I was hoping to see a new spark in the kid this year, and not the same old flop. With some more technique work and effort, the kid could be a monster.

CT CSTM
08-12-2007, 09:42 PM
maybe Kubes should bench is lazy ass for a few games.

Like alot of people on here ask me when I give personal insight on some of these players,,,where is your proof of this statement? Do you have a link labeling him "Lazy"? Are you one of the Texans trainers? Kind of harsh after a preseason game? Kubiak had to turn him around and make him take off his pads after the trainers told him to not practice in Training Camp,,,if he'd have jumped at the opportunity the trainers gave him then maybe,,,just maybe,,,you could wonder if he was lazy but this is a pretty harsh statement,,,just wondering how you came up with that diagnosis of his life,,,:hmmm:

The1ApplePie
08-12-2007, 09:44 PM
Like alot of people on here ask me when I give personal insight on some of these players,,,where is your proof of this statement? Do you have a link labeling him "Lazy"? Are you one of the Texans trainers? Kind of harsh after a preseason game? Kubiak had to turn him around and make him take off his pads after the trainers told him to not practice in Training Camp,,,if he'd have jumped at the opportunity the trainers gave him then maybe,,,just maybe,,,you could wonder if he was lazy but this is a pretty harsh statement,,,just wondering how you came up with that diagnosis of his life,,,:hmmm:

All the NFL scouts said he was lazy before the draft. (biggest knock)

Or, you can just use your eyes and watch him give up on plays if you would like.

Leahmic223
08-12-2007, 09:44 PM
Okay, your point is that the preseason does not matter, but what we are saying is that every play needs to matter to Mario. Every play!

Why does every play need to Matter to Mario and not DeMeco, Andre, Ahman, Schuab, Amobi, or Dunta? All those players are certified starters barring injury, so why does every play need to matter for Mario?

Ahman Green didn't do well? Ahman Green's been to the Pro Bowl four times. Matt Schaub is getting plenty of heat as well. BUT it's his first game with the Texans...preseason or not. It's also Amobi's first game with us.

The point is Mario has to prove he is number 1 pick correct?

Doesn't Ahman Green to prove that he is still capable of rushing for 1,000 yards...seems like every one doubts that he can do just that. I remember Applepie a few months back not liking the pick-up because he'd much rather us get Peterson or Lynch.

Doesn't Schaub has to prove that he can lead this team to success...that the Oline wasn't the problem, that he is a starter in this league.

Doesn't Amobi have to prove just about everything?

So why is this all going on Mario?

Because its not his first game with us...are you sure that is the reason?

The reason it's different for Mario is because he has yet to show people something, and he was the first pick in a year when Reggie Bush and Vince Young were available. Is it fair? Maybe not. BUT he did get first pick money, and fans want to see first pick results...or at the very least...first pick effort.

So Bush has yet to show that he can be a actual RB rather than a WR(Even Thurman Thomas said he has to prove he can run and not dance in the backfield)

Vince has to prove he can be a more effiecient QB.

Mario has to prove he can be a pass rusher. Because despite what some may have you beleive he had a above average rookie season and not a horrible one.

Leahmic223
08-12-2007, 09:46 PM
Okay, your point is that the preseason does not matter, but what we are saying is that every play needs to matter to Mario. Every play!

Ahman Green didn't do well? Ahman Green's been to the Pro Bowl four times. Matt Schaub is getting plenty of heat as well. BUT it's his first game with the Texans...preseason or not. It's also Amobi's first game with us.

The reason it's different for Mario is because he has yet to show people something, and he was the first pick in a year when Reggie Bush and Vince Young were available. Is it fair? Maybe not. BUT he did get first pick money, and fans want to see first pick results...or at the very least...first pick effort.

Like alot of people on here ask me when I give personal insight on some of these players,,,where is your proof of this statement? Do you have a link labeling him "Lazy"? Are you one of the Texans trainers? Kind of harsh after a preseason game? Kubiak had to turn him around and make him take off his pads after the trainers told him to not practice in Training Camp,,,if he'd have jumped at the opportunity the trainers gave him then maybe,,,just maybe,,,you could wonder if he was lazy but this is a pretty harsh statement,,,just wondering how you came up with that diagnosis of his life,,,:hmmm:

Applepie has been pissed off ever since we didn't take Reggie Bush, he directs all that towards Mario.

jdog
08-12-2007, 09:47 PM
Like alot of people on here ask me when I give personal insight on some of these players,,,where is your proof of this statement? Do you have a link labeling him "Lazy"? Are you one of the Texans trainers? Kind of harsh after a preseason game? Kubiak had to turn him around and make him take off his pads after the trainers told him to not practice in Training Camp,,,if he'd have jumped at the opportunity the trainers gave him then maybe,,,just maybe,,,you could wonder if he was lazy but this is a pretty harsh statement,,,just wondering how you came up with that diagnosis of his life,,,:hmmm:

You're right. I'm not saying he's lazy. I think he's been under a lot of pressure in a position which is not an overnight sensation type of position, and from what the coaches say he's working hard. I'm simply disagreeing with the notion that it's "just a preseason game". Also, many people, including the coaches, have said that he has trouble being fully motivated on every play. I'm not saying he's lazy, but I am saying that he needs to work on being motivated every play...preseason or not.

The1ApplePie
08-12-2007, 09:49 PM
Applepie has been pissed off ever since we didn't take Reggie Bush, he directs all that towards Mario.

Looking forward to my Bush fanboyism vs your Mario love once again

Nice to see you back man.

Leahmic223
08-12-2007, 09:51 PM
You're right. I'm not saying he's lazy. I think he's been under a lot of pressure in a position which is not an overnight sensation type of position, and from what the coaches say he's working hard. I'm simply disagreeing with the notion that it's "just a preseason game". Also, many people, including the coaches, have said that he has trouble being fully motivated on every play. I'm not saying he's lazy, but I am saying that he needs to work on being motivated every play...preseason or not.

But you can't ACT motivated.

If peoples opinions don't get to you(which he has clearly stated several times that he knows he will NEVER satisfy some people) then how is media and public opinion going to motivate him in a preseason game when he doesn't care about it in the first place(or so he says).

Honoring Earl 34
08-12-2007, 09:52 PM
All the NFL scouts said he was lazy before the draft. (biggest knock)

Or, you can just use your eyes and watch him give up on plays if you would like.

Actually they said he took plays off .

For the record they said the same thing about Bruce Smith and several others .

Leahmic223
08-12-2007, 09:52 PM
Looking forward to my Bush fanboyism vs your Mario love once again

Nice to see you back man.

Lol, yeah. I worked hard for my post count though.

Leahmic223
08-12-2007, 09:56 PM
What I am getting at is. Green had about 4 or 5 carries...he did barely anything.

I was one of those that was looking forward to landing Peterson or Lynch...

To me, Green has to prove that he hasn't lost a step, yet when I saw him last night...it sure looked like it to me. He didn't hit the holes quick enough and this was without friggin Thomas Jones or Urlacher...

Everyone's been saying "Ahman is a shell of his pro-bowl self" so doesn't he have to prove as much as MArio? If so then why isn't there a thread about him?

I think Mario is being made into the new scapegoat. Which of course means when something bad happens it'll just go on him.

bayshorebevo
08-12-2007, 09:59 PM
I put my binoculars on Mario from field level seats every game last year and he took plenty of plays off. He needs to go 100%. Like Pie said, Mario is a freak of nature and has the physical wherewithal to be a great player, but until he goes 100% mentally, he won't be nothing. I realize the apologist(s) will rip this staement, but show me the holes in it logically.

Honoring Earl 34
08-12-2007, 10:00 PM
http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2006/williams_mario

bayshorebevo
08-12-2007, 10:02 PM
What I am getting at is. Green had about 4 or 5 carries...he did barely anything.

I was one of those that was looking forward to landing Peterson or Lynch...

To me, Green has to prove that he hasn't lost a step, yet when I saw him last night...it sure looked like it to me. He didn't hit the holes quick enough and this was without friggin Thomas Jones or Urlacher...

Everyone's been saying "Ahman is a shell of his pro-bowl self" so doesn't he have to prove as much as MArio? If so then why isn't there a thread about him?

I think Mario is being made into the new scapegoat. Which of course means when something bad happens it'll just go on him.

Green has nothing to show in preseason. If anyone should take off preseason, it's an aging, beat-up RB. I'm hoping he has something left in the tank. Green has been an all-pro and no-one questions his work ethic. Mario has never done anything. He needs to show he has the eye of the tiger.

HJam72
08-12-2007, 10:08 PM
Yeah, and the feet of a stork (albeit a really big one).

rmartin65
08-12-2007, 10:09 PM
If I remember right, people were ragging on Carr during the pre-season last year, asking for Sage to start. Mario was a first over all like Carr. He will be criticized (sp?) and some people may be dissaipointed.

powerfuldragon
08-12-2007, 10:09 PM
http://eyofthecat.ytmnd.com/

Leahmic223
08-12-2007, 10:10 PM
Green has nothing to show in preseason. If anyone should take off preseason, it's an aging, beat-up RB. I'm hoping he has something left in the tank. Green has been an all-pro and no-one questions his work ethic. Mario has never done anything. He needs to show he has the eye of the tiger.

like I asked...

If he had 8 sacks over the next 3 preseason games would you be impressed?

If So, then what if he went on to have 4 sacks in the regular season, would you go back and say "Well he had a great preseason!" ?

jdog
08-12-2007, 10:11 PM
Why does every play need to Matter to Mario and not DeMeco, Andre, Ahman, Schuab, Amobi, or Dunta? All those players are certified starters barring injury, so why does every play need to matter for Mario?

DeMeco, Andre and Dunta have shown Texans fans all they ever wanted to see. We're not concerned about them. Well, actually, some people want to see better coverage from Dunta which goes to show you that you can't please everybody.

Doesn't Ahman Green to prove that he is still capable of rushing for 1,000 yards...seems like every one doubts that he can do just that. I remember Applepie a few months back not liking the pick-up because he'd much rather us get Peterson or Lynch.

Obviously, Ahman Green can't prove he'll be a 1,000 yard rusher in three carries. Concerns about Ahman are only going to be answered over the course of the entire season.

The difference is between Ahman and Mario is this. People are concerned about what Ahman's season will be like, but people are concerned about Mario's effort. No one that I know of is concerned about Ahman's effort. They could be. They could think he might be here to get a quick check and retire, but no one thinks that. If they did, they'd be wanting to see something every play from him too. We just hope he can last a whole season and still have quickness.

Doesn't Schaub has to prove that he can lead this team to success...that the Oline wasn't the problem, that he is a starter in this league.

Most people liked what they saw from him last night. He responded well to pressure, and the line looked good enough. He seemed to make good reads and made good throws with the exception of the one touchdown pass which has gotten him some heat. He's also shown that it bothers him too, and he said he'll work on it and correct it. What does that show you? Effort...commitment. Will he lead the team to success? We can't know that yet, but it looks good so far. If he overthrows an open receiver for another missed touchdown, he'll get plenty of crap. Believe it. Once again, the difference is no one doubts Schaub's effort or commitment.

Doesn't Amobi have to prove just about everything?

Yes, but we'll give him more than one game to do it. Just like we've given Mario more than one game to do it.

So why is this all going on Mario? Because its not his first game with us...are you sure that is the reason?

I think it hurts him that he has one year under his belt which was plagued by injury. In fairness to him, I believe you are right that it was actually a good rookie year even without the injury. Some people want him to justify his being taken over Vince Young and Reggie Bush. That's a tall order. I don't expect it from him because we chose him for a need. We need to pressure quarterbacks. All I want from him is to put the same kind of pressure on quarterbacks that the world is putting on him. The type of player that does that sort of thing is the type of guy that foams at the mouth has no quit in him. That's the guy we want to see. He's got to learn to be that guy that wants no less. The guy has a reputation that puts fear into the hearts of quarterbacks everywhere. A guy that gives these quarterbacks a break in the offseason is not that guy.

So Bush has yet to show that he can be a actual RB rather than a WR(Even Thurman Thomas said he has to prove he can run and not dance in the backfield). Vince has to prove he can be a more effiecient QB.

I don't think it's a fair comparison because they all play different positions, but yes, they all have something to prove.

If Reggie Bush get's stuffed at the line in preseason, people are going to talk, but he also affected the teams success last year as a decoy.

If Vince Young has no completions in a preseason game, people are going to talk, but he also almost single handedly got his team to the playoffs last year.

Like I said, it's not a fair comparison because they play different positions, but they all have one thing in common. They are all critical to the success of their teams, and we want to see Mario play like he's critical to his teams success.

bayshorebevo
08-12-2007, 10:18 PM
like I asked...

If he had 8 sacks over the next 3 preseason games would you be impressed?

If So, then what if he went on to have 4 sacks in the regular season, would you go back and say "Well he had a great preseason!" ?

What is it with blindly defending this guy? This just in, the Texans are, contrary to public opinion, not infallible. You miss the point entirely. I am asking for effort from Williams. He has not shown the work ethic his lofty pay check and draft status call for. All I'm asking is 100% effort. He has always been bigger than those around him, was blessed with athletic ability & has always found it easy to excel against mediocrity. Rather than espousing the party line, tell me where you have seen the guy making the effort a guy like Tiger Woods, Craig Biggio, Roger Staubach, Earl Campbell, Demeco, Mike Ditka, etc (the list goes on).

real
08-12-2007, 10:19 PM
Mario didn't look good out there...It has nothing to do with his production...

I didn't see any explosiveness....

I saw some weak pass rushing moves...

In fact there was one play where he tried to do a spin move and I promise you, it could have been timed with a sun dial....

I think Mario can get us 7-10 sacks--and I'm almost afraid to say it--but I don't ever see him being a top end edge rusher who's going to constantly put pressure on opposing QB's....

Leahmic223
08-12-2007, 10:25 PM
DeMeco, Andre and Dunta have shown Texans fans all they ever wanted to see. We're not concerned about them. Well, actually, some people want to see better coverage from Dunta which goes to show you that you can't please everybody.


No response.

Obviously, Ahman Green can't prove he'll be a 1,000 yard rusher in three carries. Concerns about Ahman are only going to be answered over the course of the entire season.

The difference is between Ahman and Mario is this. People are concerned about what Ahman's season will be like, but people are concerned about Mario's effort. No one that I know of is concerned about Ahman's effort. They could be. They could think he might be here to get a quick check and retire, but no one thinks that. If they did, they'd be wanting to see something every play from him too. We just hope he can last a whole season and still have quickness.


So wait...Ahman can't prove that he can be a 1,000 yard rusher in 3 carries....yet Mario can prove that he can be a dominant DE in 8-9 snaps?

Most people liked what they saw from him last night. He responded well to pressure, and the line looked good enough. He seemed to make good reads and made good throws with the exception of the one touchdown pass which has gotten him some heat. He's also shown that it bothers him too, and he said he'll work on it and correct it. What does that show you? Effort...commitment. Will he lead the team to success? We can't know that yet, but it looks good so far. If he overthrows an open receiver for another missed touchdown, he'll get plenty of crap. Believe it. Once again, the difference is no one doubts Schaub's effort or commitment.


He played against a Bears defense without two of their best players for god's sake. Yeah he got the ball off qucikly, but is it qucik enough with Jones crashing down our Oline? Can he do what he did with one of the best MLB in the L on the field in game time situation...

Yes, but we'll give him more than one game to do it. Just like we've given Mario more than one game to do it.


Its pretty much a rule that you give a player 3 years to decide whether they are a bust or not...it seems like we are not giving him that time if we turn him into a scapegoat his 2nd season.

I think it hurts him that he has one year under his belt which was plagued by injury. In fairness to him, I believe you are right that it was actually a good rookie year even without the injury. Some people want him to justify his being taken over Vince Young and Reggie Bush. That's a tall order. I don't expect it from him because we chose him for a need. We need to pressure quarterbacks. All I want from him is to put the same kind of pressure on quarterbacks that the world is putting on him. The type of player that does that sort of thing is the type of guy that foams at the mouth has no quit in him. That's the guy we want to see. He's got to learn to be that guy that wants no less. The guy has a reputation that puts fear into the hearts of quarterbacks everywhere. A guy that gives these quarterbacks a break in the offseason is not that guy.


Like I said...you can't act motivated in preseason. It's like faking love or something, you can't fake motivation and that is what we are asking from him.

Some players JUST DON'T GET MOTIVTED behind preseason...period. That's just it. Whether they've proved something or not. Some guys cannot find motivation in preseason. So wehn you ask him "Preseason must mean something to you, you haven't proved these critics wrong..."

First, nothing he does in preseason can prove them wrong.

Second, he's mentioned many times he's not worried about meeting those expecatations of a RB or QB...he's a DE.

All I want him to do is pressure the QB also. I want QBs to fear him also...but preseason has no meaning so I could care less what he does as long as he is not getting hurt or pulling a Pacman and trying to get kicked out of the league.

I don't think it's a fair comparison because they all play different positions, but yes, they all have something to prove.

If Reggie Bush get's stuffed at the line in preseason, people are going to talk, but he also affected the teams success last year as a decoy.

If Vince Young has no completions in a preseason game, people are going to talk, but he also almost single handedly got his team to the playoffs last year.

Like I said, it's not a fair comparison because they play different positions, but they all have one thing in common. They are all critical to the success of their teams, and we want to see Mario play like he's critical to his teams success.

That's my point, they all have something to prove, and it can't be proved in preseason.

Leahmic223
08-12-2007, 10:26 PM
What is it with blindly defending this guy? This just in, the Texans are, contrary to public opinion, not infallible. You miss the point entirely. I am asking for effort from Williams. He has not shown the work ethic his lofty pay check and draft status call for. All I'm asking is 100% effort. He has always been bigger than those around him, was blessed with athletic ability & has always found it easy to excel against mediocrity. Rather than espousing the party line, tell me where you have seen the guy making the effort a guy like Tiger Woods, Craig Biggio, Roger Staubach, Earl Campbell, Demeco, Mike Ditka, etc (the list goes on).

What is it with no one answering the question?

bayshorebevo
08-12-2007, 10:29 PM
what question

Leahmic223
08-12-2007, 10:30 PM
what question

The two questions you quoted in your previous post.

bayshorebevo
08-12-2007, 10:32 PM
That is the kind of comment a lawyer makes when he knows he is wrong.

Leahmic223
08-12-2007, 10:33 PM
like I asked...

If he had 8 sacks over the next 3 preseason games would you be impressed?

If So, then what if he went on to have 4 sacks in the regular season, would you go back and say "Well he had a great preseason!" ?

Is it so hard to answer these questions?

bayshorebevo
08-12-2007, 10:38 PM
If you would read what I wrote, rather than blindly defend the FO, I don't care what his stats are. I want to see 100% effort, whether he falls on his face or not. He has never shown that as a Texan. Is that concept so hard to understand?

Wolf
08-12-2007, 10:39 PM
I ask you and everyone who is getting on Mario for his preseason performance the same following questions...

If Mario gets 8 sacks over the next 3 preseason games will that satisfy you?

If so, then what if he went on to get 4 sacks in the regular season...will you still be satisfied with his preseason performance?

Will you go back and say..."Well he's had a good preseason" ?

I see what you are trying to get at..and I understand that.. I am thinking most are looking for consistency and yes he is a young guy. I am not bashing him or anything.. I think most on here are looking for at the very least a william fuller or a sean jones for a 2nd year guy. I for one like the mario pick because this team needs defense.. and for all of us Texan fans.. we do have our expectations set high because our front four needs to be able to set the tone against an offense.. not just mario, RJ,Weaver,Babin,okoye(can get some slack,he is only 19 going to grow and will have a learning curve) , mario.. even though last year would have technically been his senior year in college), I think we have enough knowledgeable football people on this board that will hold each and everyone accountable..esp with 53 million tied up on the DL... just like the OL where a year or two ago, that was a high paid group and we didn't get the results we needed and McKinney,Wade,Weigart,etc were taking heat also from our fans

You may be right, mario could become the whipping boy, that is the nature of the beast on a number one overall or even a top 10 pick in a team that has been struggling to find an identity on defense...

I for one hope he doesn't become the whipping boy to the fans, I like mario... I know one game doesn't mean much, but consistency will be the key and with maturity I think (hope) he will become that

Leahmic223
08-12-2007, 10:43 PM
If you would read what I wrote, rather than blindly defend the FO, I don't care what his stats are. I want to see 100% effort, whether he falls on his face or not. He has never shown that as a Texan. Is that concept so hard to understand?

The questions can be asnwered with yes or no man. That is all I ask.

Also, like I said two times on one page...it's hard to fake motivation.

Some guys are NEVER motivated by preseason whether they are HOF guys, are just barely starting guys...

You are asking of him "Hey man can you go out there and act motivated?" something he can't do.

There are about 1,000 reasons to be motivated week 1...there is one reason to be motivated in preseason if your Mario Williams "To prove everyone wrong."

Yet no one has denied that anything he does in preseason will completely be forgotten when the regular season starts...

Mario=Scapegoat

real
08-12-2007, 10:47 PM
The questions can be asnwered with yes or no man. That is all I ask.

Also, like I said two times on one page...it's hard to fake motivation.

Some guys are NEVER motivated by preseason whether they are HOF guys, are just barely starting guys...

You are asking of him "Hey man can you go out there and act motivated?" something he can't do.

There are about 1,000 reasons to be motivated week 1...there is one reason to be motivated in preseason if your Mario Williams "To prove everyone wrong."

Yet no one has denied that anything he does in preseason will completely be forgotten when the regular season starts...

Mario=Scapegoat


So we're supposed to ignore the fact that Mario looked terrible out there in the hopes that your "what if" scenario comes true ?

Look...I dunno if Mario wasn't motivated or whatever, but I do know what my eyes saw...I saw a slow moving non-explosive guy...

I'm not gonna hold my breath and come up with fairly tale scenarios about why he may or may not have been motivated...I'll leave the fairy tales up to Disney...

Wolf
08-12-2007, 10:50 PM
The questions can be asnwered with yes or no man. That is all I ask.



Some guys are NEVER motivated by preseason whether they are HOF guys, are just barely starting guys...


Mario=Scapegoat

barely starting out guys better be motivated or they won't last long in the league or become an alex brown (not saying mario is that)

of course i go by what my dad taught me.. "When you practice, you practice how you play, or you'll play how you practice"

bayshorebevo
08-12-2007, 10:50 PM
The questions can be asnwered with yes or no man. That is all I ask.

Also, like I said two times on one page...it's hard to fake motivation.

Some guys are NEVER motivated by preseason whether they are HOF guys, are just barely starting guys...

You are asking of him "Hey man can you go out there and act motivated?" something he can't do.

There are about 1,000 reasons to be motivated week 1...there is one reason to be motivated in preseason if your Mario Williams "To prove everyone wrong."

Yet no one has denied that anything he does in preseason will completely be forgotten when the regular season starts...

Mario=Scapegoat


Mario was not motivated during regular season last year. He took a lot of plays off. That is not the mark of a champion. The only way he will avoid the scapegoat label is if he tries harder than those around him, which the 2 guys taken after him do. Very people understand that winners work harder than those around them. That is why there are few winners. Mario has not acted like a winner thus far. He needs to stop being a sometimes slacker.

Wolf
08-12-2007, 10:52 PM
Mario was not motivated during regular season last year. He took a lot of plays off. That is not the mark of a champion. The only way he will avoid the scapegoat label is if he tries harder than those around him, which the 2 guys taken after him do. Very people understand that winners work harder than those around them. That is why there are few winners. Mario has not acted like a winner thus far. He needs to stop being a sometimes slacker.

I don't know if slacker is a fair word... passive maybe?

bayshorebevo
08-12-2007, 10:53 PM
I don't know if slacker is a fair word... passive maybe?

Same difference. They are synonymous.

jlam
08-12-2007, 10:56 PM
like I asked...

If he had 8 sacks over the next 3 preseason games would you be impressed?

Yes, I think people would be very impressed.

If So, then what if he went on to have 4 sacks in the regular season, would you go back and say "Well he had a great preseason!" ?

No, I think people would wonder why he struggled so much after showing a lot of potential in the preseason. idonno:

Leahmic223
08-12-2007, 10:56 PM
I see what you are trying to get at..and I understand that.. I am thinking most are looking for consistency and yes he is a young guy. I am not bashing him or anything.. I think most on here are looking for at the very least a william fuller or a sean jones for a 2nd year guy. I for one like the mario pick because this team needs defense.. and for all of us Texan fans.. we do have our expectations set high because our front four needs to be able to set the tone against an offense.. not just mario, RJ,Weaver,Babin,okoye(can get some slack,he is only 19 going to grow and will have a learning curve) , mario.. even though last year would have technically been his senior year in college), I think we have enough knowledgeable football people on this board that will hold each and everyone accountable..esp with 53 million tied up on the DL... just like the OL where a year or two ago, that was a high paid group and we didn't get the results we needed and McKinney,Wade,Weigart,etc were taking heat also from our fans

You may be right, mario could become the whipping boy, that is the nature of the beast on a number one overall or even a top 10 pick in a team that has been struggling to find an identity on defense...

I for one hope he doesn't become the whipping boy to the fans, I like mario... I know one game doesn't mean much, but consistency will be the key and with maturity I think (hope) he will become that


I can deal with this. I can't blame people for putting pressure on the DL (We should be a top 5 DL for the next 10 years at least top 7 man. Too much invested not to be)

I can't blame people for wanting to see consistency and effort.

My thing is...you can't really judge consitency in Preseason and some guys just don't give the effort in preseason.

People say DeMeco was giving effort...I guess. He just blitzed and made a good play. He could make that play at 70% effort.

When I see 100% effort I saw Jacoby Jones. He gave a lot of effort more effort than Andre Johnson did...yet no one is saying that will be the case in the regular season are they? No, of course not.

What I am saying is what happens in preseason isn't what happens in the regular season. Year in and year out that is proved. It will be proved this year one way or another and guys are going to say "You remember in preseason when..."

Leahmic223
08-12-2007, 10:57 PM
Mario was not motivated during regular season last year. He took a lot of plays off. That is not the mark of a champion. The only way he will avoid the scapegoat label is if he tries harder than those around him, which the 2 guys taken after him do. Very people understand that winners work harder than those around them. That is why there are few winners. Mario has not acted like a winner thus far. He needs to stop being a sometimes slacker.

That was last season.

You are comparing last season to 8 snaps in preseason...

Wolf
08-12-2007, 10:58 PM
biggest thing I have heard about what this team needs from Demeco... is forced turnovers.. I think he had one(or two) turnover for all those tackles... not knocking Demeco anyway or anyform, just about the only thing I can see he possibly can improve on

Leahmic223
08-12-2007, 10:59 PM
So we're supposed to ignore the fact that Mario looked terrible out there in the hopes that your "what if" scenario comes true ?

Look...I dunno if Mario wasn't motivated or whatever, but I do know what my eyes saw...I saw a slow moving non-explosive guy...

I'm not gonna hold my breath and come up with fairly tale scenarios about why he may or may not have been motivated...I'll leave the fairy tales up to Disney...

I gave no what if scenario.

I simply said that no matter what you do in preseason, it isn't going to matter in the regular season...it never has it never does.

real
08-12-2007, 11:05 PM
When I see 100% effort I saw Jacoby Jones. He gave a lot of effort more effort than Andre Johnson did...yet no one is saying that will be the case in the regular season are they? No, of course not.

What I am saying is what happens in preseason isn't what happens in the regular season. Year in and year out that is proved. It will be proved this year one way or another and guys are going to say "You remember in preseason when..."

Why are you comparing Mario to guys who have established themselves ? Andre is a multi-pro bowl reciever....

Why not get really crazy and compare him to LT...he didn't even play in the first game....

Mario isn't good enough yet to choose when he's going to turn it on...he is not an established force in this leauge...Nowhere near it...

I would think more than anything he would be jacked up to finally get a chance to go against--and hit--someone on an opposong team...Look at Dunta...he was throwing his body around out there...

I'm not sure why you just can't acknowledge that Mario didn't look too hott...

ObsiWan
08-12-2007, 11:09 PM
I understand he looked unimpressive out there.

But some of the same people that are talking about Mario are saying "Well hard to judge Schuab off of 5 passes..." and ignoring Green looked like he's lost a step out there.

When it comes to Mario though, it looks like he is going to be the new Whipping boy. Also since some people's expcetations are incredibly high of him, he will NEVER meet the expectations of some people no matter what he does unless he shatters every sack record.

If you are going to say "So and so didn't have enough time to prove himself" then say the same for Mario.

All I am saying is nothing is proved in preseason, never has been and never will be.

Let me ask you a question...or a few questions...

If Mario gets 8 sacks over the next 3 preseason games will that satisfy you?

If so, then what if he went on to get 4 sacks in the regular season...will you still be satisfied with his preseason performance?

Will you go back and say..."Well he's had a good preseason" ?

The lad has a valid point. We shouldn't just pick on Mario. We paid big time for Schaub and Green too. If Mario sucked then so did Ahman (7 yds on 3 att!) and Schaub (3 of 5 for 25 yds and a missed freebie TD). Fair is fair.

If we pick on Mario and not the other two, then face it, there must be some residual "I really wanted RB/VY" or "I'm still REALLY EMBARRASSSED that we didn't pick RB/VY" working under the surface.

real
08-12-2007, 11:10 PM
I gave no what if scenario.

I simply said that no matter what you do in preseason, it isn't going to matter in the regular season...it never has it never does.

This is a what if scenario:

Some guys are NEVER motivated by preseason whether they are HOF guys, are just barely starting guys...

You are asking of him "Hey man can you go out there and act motivated?" something he can't do.



It is a what if scenario because you are trying to make up scenarios for Mario's lackluster play by coming up with possible excuses...You have no proof that Mario wasn't playing hard because of the reason quoted above...You are merely reaching in a hat of excuses for something to justify it....

Plain as day Mario didn't play well...

There could be a million excuses/reasons for that and based on what I've seen from him with my own eyes, both last year and this first game, I'm on the worried side of things...

Hopefully he can turn it on, but I personally won't be holding my breath...

Leahmic223
08-12-2007, 11:14 PM
Why are you comparing Mario to guys who have established themselves ? Andre is a multi-pro bowl reciever....

Why not get really crazy and compare him to LT...he didn't even play in the first game....

Mario isn't good enough yet to choose when he's going to turn it on...he is not an established force in this leauge...Nowhere near it...

I would think more than anything he would be jacked up to finally get a chance to go against--and hit--someone on an opposong team...Look at Dunta...he was throwing his body around out there...

I'm not sure why you just can't acknowledge that Mario didn't look too hott...

Actually I did several times on this board today...

It's the "Its a sign of things to come..." theories that are just plain silly.

Once again...There is about 500 reasons why he should be motivated week 1, and like 3 reasons why he should be motivated in preseason.

Some guys cannot get motivated when something is given to him. He is going to start, he knows it, we know it. So really what else is there to push him?

Oh yeah the media and public opinon that he is a bust...yet no matter what he does he'll probably always be a bust compared to Reggie Bush.

Man like Iverson said..."We're talking about Practice...not the actual game that matters."

The point is...it really doesn't matter if he doesn't give effort in preseason...come back week 1 and say the same thing and i'll worry...as it is now it doesn't matter.

Also i'd like to correct myself...I kept calling Tommie Harris of the Bears Jones...don't know why I just keep calling him that for some reason.

real
08-12-2007, 11:17 PM
The lad has a valid point. We shouldn't just pick on Mario. We paid big time for Schaub and Green too. If Mario sucked then so did Ahman (7 yds on 3 att!) and Schaub (3 of 5 for 25 yds and a missed freebie TD). Fair is fair.

If we pick on Mario and not the other two, then face it, there must be some residual "I really wanted RB/VY" or "I'm still REALLY EMBARRASSSED that we didn't pick RB/VY" working under the surface.

Not sure what you guys got out of Schaubs performance, but the guy looked really good to me...

Green looked less than stellar, but I don't expect Ahman to be out long term solution...I expect atleast 1,000 yards from the guy, but Mario was a #1 overall pick...

Fair is for describing the weather...

Forgive us if we are a little more worried about Mario's lack-luster performance than we are about Ahman's....

I guess we should evaluate Mario the same way as Ben Steele? You know...just to be fair....

Vinny
08-12-2007, 11:20 PM
Not sure what you guys got out of Schaubs performance, but the guy looked really good to me...

5 passes, 3 completions, one drop, one 6 inches from a TD. Just because people can type...doesn't mean they are credible. Ya just gotta tune out some of these guys posting ridiculous assertions...took me a while to learn this lesson. Credibility only comes from adding something credible to the conversation...some of these guys aren't big on cred.

Leahmic223
08-12-2007, 11:20 PM
The lad has a valid point. We shouldn't just pick on Mario. We paid big time for Schaub and Green too. If Mario sucked then so did Ahman (7 yds on 3 att!) and Schaub (3 of 5 for 25 yds and a missed freebie TD). Fair is fair.

If we pick on Mario and not the other two, then face it, there must be some residual "I really wanted RB/VY" or "I'm still REALLY EMBARRASSSED that we didn't pick RB/VY" working under the surface.

I'm glad someone agrees.

Also liked to point out again that Urlacher and Harris was out...two of their best d players...

I just want people to judge him fairly, it just seems like we have a new scapegoat though. People are taking too much from the 8 snaps(7 or 9 maybe?) he played in preseason.

I can understand being worried. But lets save all that worrying until Week 1 please :winky:

Other than that, i'm going to get off the subject for a while. I am just not the person to worry after preseason or get too excited after preseason.

Because everything changes when the actual season starts. So many variables go in that everything is put on the line...it is just miles away from the try-outs that is preseason.

bayshorebevo
08-12-2007, 11:21 PM
That was last season.

You are comparing last season to 8 snaps in preseason...

You are making my point for me. He did not show the required effort last season. He showed no effort yesterday in his short outing. He should be coming out spitting nails, preseason or not. If I was his coach, I'd bust his chops every day. He will not be able to turn on character like a light. He has to develop it and he has to start right now. I'm sure you will say something about preseason doesn't matter. In this case it does, he needs to have the right state of mind. I already replied with your rhetoric, no response necessary.

Leahmic223
08-12-2007, 11:27 PM
You are making my point for me. He did not show the required effort last season. He showed no effort yesterday in his short outing. He should be coming out spitting nails, preseason or not. If I was his coach, I'd bust his chops every day. He will not be able to turn on character like a light. He has to develop it and he has to start right now. I'm sure you will say something about preseason doesn't matter. In this case it does, he needs to have the right state of mind. I already replied with your rhetoric, no response necessary.

You can turn effort on and off...Great players like Iverson does it. Portis does it. Not to mention pretty much every star player basketball and football does it when the preseason starts...

Like I said...you can't act motivated. That is why Coaches find ways to motivate their players...if nothing is out there to motivate you than you won't be motivated no matter how hard you try.

Dunta said he take it personal now when a guy cathces against him now...that's motivation. When Mario lines up...WEEK ONE and is not motivated then worry.

I've never seen motivation questioned so much in a preseason game though... especially by a guy who has his spot locked this year barring horrible play when the season actually starts.

Vinny
08-12-2007, 11:30 PM
I've never seen motivation questioned so much in a preseason game though... especially by a guy who has his spot locked this year barring horrible play when the season actually starts.If you have never been what you were supposed to be the fans would actually like to see you flash ability instead of rest on speculation endlessly. It was preseason for Mario and it was preseason for the guys on the Bears that whipped his ass too....dominant players dominate at times. That's what we want to see...that's what we don't see....that's why people are not happy with what they see. Simple stuff really.

dickieb
08-12-2007, 11:34 PM
of course i go by what my dad taught me.. "When you practice, you practice how you play, or you'll play how you practice"

This statement is very relavent in this conversation. I know it's "only preseason" but these guys have been saying they were ready to hit someone in a different uniform all week. It's not like Mario or the 1st string had to play all game, so you would think they could have played hard for the 2 series they were on the field.

bayshorebevo
08-12-2007, 11:36 PM
You can turn effort on and off...Great players like Iverson does it. Portis does it. Not to mention pretty much every star player basketball and football does it when the preseason starts...

Like I said...you can't act motivated. That is why Coaches find ways to motivate their players...if nothing is out there to motivate you than you won't be motivated no matter how hard you try.

Dunta said he take it personal now when a guy cathces against him now...that's motivation. When Mario lines up...WEEK ONE and is not motivated then worry.

I've never seen motivation questioned so much in a preseason game though... especially by a guy who has his spot locked this year barring horrible play when the season actually starts.

Forget about it. I'm talking about last season. He was terrible last year and did not make the effort he should have. He could not turn it on last year but you say he can at will this year with no reason or basis. If he was holding a knife stuck in someone's chest, the apologists would say he was performing emergency heart surgery. It is like Democrat and Republican rhetoric. This is a waste of time because there is no discussion, it's all party line.

jdog
08-12-2007, 11:38 PM
Okay, to what standard SHOULD we hold Mario once the regular season begins?

Can we expect him to play like he did in practice when he was pissed, and can we expect it every play of every game?

If you don't think he should play this way in preseason games, do you think he should play this way in every practice at least?

What do you think does motivate Mario? Is it regular season wins? If so, is it okay if he stops trying when we're down by 17 points? Is it okay if he stops trying when we're 0-9? If the play is always to the other side of the field, should he stop trying?

I would feel better if he was motivated by a personal quest for excellence in his craft, and in fairness, I would hope that all of the Texans are similarly motivated.

Motivation should not exist merely in obtaining a roster spot (job) in a competitive sport whether it is professional or not. There is a reason why they have a championship trophy, and there's a reason why the greats are more motivated by the trophy more than the job (paycheck).

real
08-12-2007, 11:39 PM
You can turn effort on and off...Great players like Iverson does it. Portis does it. Not to mention pretty much every star player basketball and football does it when the preseason starts...

Like I said...you can't act motivated. That is why Coaches find ways to motivate their players...if nothing is out there to motivate you than you won't be motivated no matter how hard you try.

Dunta said he take it personal now when a guy cathces against him now...that's motivation. When Mario lines up...WEEK ONE and is not motivated then worry.

I've never seen motivation questioned so much in a preseason game though... especially by a guy who has his spot locked this year barring horrible play when the season actually starts.

Don't think it had anything to do with his motivation...I think he was going plenty hard...

Wolf
08-12-2007, 11:39 PM
Problem us fans are having leahmic23 is we don't know what mario can do, we haven't seen it (yes he was injured last season) ...as fans we want a glimpse of things to come and like Demeco....we saw it.. like AJ we have seen it..With Mario, there is still a gray area and with him being a 2nd year pro ...we'd like to see it granted 8 plays isn't many (or however many he played) as Texan fans we need to see atleast one play out of 8 that shows that he can disrupt the line. (even in preseason), if regular season rolls around and we see him do good things 1 out of 10... i am not sure the fans will be overjoyed... now i understand that good things don't mean he sacks a QB 1 out of 10 plays, but we need to see when he is handled one on one, he does something that makes a team "account"for him.. when he is double teamed... i believe most fans on here will accept that, because that opens up Okoye,TJ, or even keeps a lineman off of Demeco so Demeco can get to the ball carrier.

yes some fans will still look at stats, but I think a lot of the knowledgeable fans will see through that and know that when if mario ties up two people and say Amobi gets through...then the offense has to account for Amobi and switch accordingly and give Mario single coverage.. when that happens, we do want to see great things from him.

Vinny
08-12-2007, 11:40 PM
Okay, to what standard SHOULD we hold Mario once the regular season begins?
he just needs to play well....there are only 20 games not counting the playoffs. So far there is one down and there are only 19 left, and Mario still needs to show something. Some of us are paying attention...some of us are trying to convince us that potential = dominance.

Leahmic223
08-12-2007, 11:43 PM
If you have never been what you were supposed to be the fans would actually like to see you flash ability instead of rest on speculation endlessly. It was preseason for Mario and it was preseason for the guys on the Bears that whipped his ass too....dominant players dominate at times. That's what we want to see...that's what we don't see....that's why people are not happy with what they see. Simple stuff really.

Well I guess...but there are too many variables in preseason to actually be worried about too much.

I am not really going to argue with this any more.

Because its friggin preseason and i've never seen people worry so much over a preseason game. I guess years of failing can do that to a fanbase...make us paranoid...

I'll just wait to judge guys when Week 1 starts. Just like i've said in every post every year "Yeah he did good but its preseason..." or "Yeah he did bad but it's preseason."

I remember on ESPN radio that guy kept saying "THE LIONS Looked great last night!" he just went on and on about that and the other analyst kept replying..."Preseason...its preseason...its preseason."

So like I said, just because its happened in preseason doesn't mean its going to happen in the regular season. Preseason is like try outs and getting players ready for the regular season.

So many things change in game time with all the pressure being on. Everything matters, everyone is bringing their best, the coaches are not going to hold back on play calling, etc etc. Which is why usually no one takes too much from preseason...

Yeah he looked bad, but the point here is it really doesn't matter. He could have a horrible preseason and a great season and no one is going to look back and say "He needs to show effort in preseason though." We are just saying it now because we are worried and a bit paranoid that we may have made a mistake.

I am patient enough to let the actual season come(not actually I hate Preseason) but enough to judge players based off their REGULAR season games and not their Preseason games.

Leahmic223
08-13-2007, 12:02 AM
he just needs to play well....there are only 20 games not counting the playoffs. So far there is one down and there are only 19 left, and Mario still needs to show something. Some of us are paying attention...some of us are trying to convince us that potential = dominance.

Yeah but potential isn't reached in one year and a preseason game man.

Forget about it. I'm talking about last season. He was terrible last year and did not make the effort he should have. He could not turn it on last year but you say he can at will this year with no reason or basis. If he was holding a knife stuck in someone's chest, the apologists would say he was performing emergency heart surgery. It is like Democrat and Republican rhetoric. This is a waste of time because there is no discussion, it's all party line.

I didn't say he can turn it on at will...I said great players can. Also you said he was terrible last season? Really...compare his season to a lot of pro-bowl DEs when they were rookies and you might be surprised. He had a above average season last year and that considers everything. Its just you are comparing him to others so it looks TERRIBLE when it wasn't. Also you are not talking about last season...wait we are talking about the actual season now?

Problem us fans are having leahmic23 is we don't know what mario can do, we haven't seen it (yes he was injured last season) ...as fans we want a glimpse of things to come and like Demeco....we saw it.. like AJ we have seen it..With Mario, there is still a gray area and with him being a 2nd year pro ...we'd like to see it granted 8 plays isn't many (or however many he played) as Texan fans we need to see atleast one play out of 8 that shows that he can disrupt the line. (even in preseason), if regular season rolls around and we see him do good things 1 out of 10... i am not sure the fans will be overjoyed... now i understand that good things don't mean he sacks a QB 1 out of 10 plays, but we need to see when he is handled one on one, he does something that makes a team "account"for him.. when he is double teamed... i believe most fans on here will accept that, because that opens up Okoye,TJ, or even keeps a lineman off of Demeco so Demeco can get to the ball carrier.

yes some fans will still look at stats, but I think a lot of the knowledgeable fans will see through that and know that when if mario ties up two people and say Amobi gets through...then the offense has to account for Amobi and switch accordingly and give Mario single coverage.. when that happens, we do want to see great things from him.

And we will get a better chance at seeing what he can do when the season actually starts. That is what I have been saying, what I am trying to say, what I have been suggesting. Yet everyone keeps going back to preseason.

I like many other scouts use the 3 year rule. If you don't produce in 3 years as expected than it is fair to label that player a bust. DE is a hard postition to grasp so is any of the line positions.

Like I said, I can understand worrying about his effort and motivation. Now truroyalty is worried about his actual skills and that is something valid. Skills are always there and if he has them he'd use them in preseason.

But it is hard to say "He isn't showing motivation and effort in preseason." when for some players its hard to get into that mode come preseason, also no one can prove he wasn't motivated, we are just saying he wasn't because he did bad...we are afraid to say right now "He just can't do it." which is what truroyalty is saying and he may be right...

What if he is giving 100% but his skills are just not there? Then that is a bigger problem I think most of us hope isn't the case. We hope he did bad because of lack of effort and not lack of skill...

Yet in the season we know he's giving his all(he better be) and therefore we see if his skills are up to par...which is why we have a regular season.

ObsiWan
08-13-2007, 12:33 AM
If you have never been what you were supposed to be the fans would actually like to see you flash ability instead of rest on speculation endlessly. It was preseason for Mario and it was preseason for the guys on the Bears that whipped his ass too....dominant players dominate at times. That's what we want to see...that's what we don't see....that's why people are not happy with what they see. Simple stuff really.

I'm not saying Mario played pro-bowl level ball last night because he didn't. I don't like the "jump on Mario" crap because I know what the root cause is. It boils down to we didn't get VY/RB. And we shouldn't take that out on Mario. Its just not right. That's my point and I think its all Leahmic is saying too.

But he's the focus of a lot of people's disappointment and/or embarrassment regarding the 2006 draft and I'm afraid that will never change. No matter what he does or doesn't do. That's just not right, IMHO.

Let's slow down and think about how the Bears played us and by so doing see how realistic your expectations were....

What were Grossman's stats on the night?
Don't look them up, they were 8 of 10 for 50 yds. His long pass of the night was just 12 yds. Take that one out and he completed 7 passes for 38 yds - 5.4 yds/completion or 4.2 yds/attempt. I don't need to tell you guys that that's the same crappy chuck & duck avg that YKW used to have. That's 3 & 4 step drops.

And even with them playing the quick dump-off passing game, I still counted 4-5 times Rex was pressured. Out of only ten attempts. Twice by N.D. - because Mario was double teamed - and once by Mario after being triple-teamed. Once he barely got the pass off while falling to the ground with someone around his legs - couldn't tell who it was.

And did you notice how many times the Bears kept both the TE and both backs in to help with pass protection? But the pressure was still there. The stats bear that out. Rex had no time to launch his mad bombs (he had 47 20+ yd completions and 8 40+ yd completions last year - Rex likes to go long). We gave him no time for a 7-step drop to work. Maybe it wasn't Mario but sommmmebody was at work. And it ain't like we blitzed all night.

Now, could Mario have had a better night?

You bet.

Everybody could have. I saw a coujple of plays where Mario didn't balls out pursue. Pi***d me off. Fast as he's supposed to be he should run guys down from behind. Walter could have made that 3rd down catch. He IS supposed to be a "possession receiver". That pi***d me off too. Schaub could have hit a wide open man in the endzone. That really pi***d me off because you don't get many "gimmes" like that in this game.

But its preseason. I have confidence we'll get all that fixed.

I also believe that if Mario doesn't play to the level Kubiak expects, he'll get the Travis Johnson/Jerome Mathis treatment. First overall pick or not.

Vinny
08-13-2007, 12:37 AM
I'm not saying Mario played pro-bowl level ball last night because he didn't. I don't like the "jump on Mario" crap because I know what the root cause is. It boils down to we didn't get VY/RB. And we shouldn't take that out on Mario. Its just not right. That's my point and I think its all Leahmic is saying too. You either play well or you don't.....he didn't.

When the players you pay the most aren't your 'best players', your teams usually aren't very good in the NFL (see the David Carr Texans for the latest example). Thats probably some of the consternation from many of the fans.

ObsiWan
08-13-2007, 12:55 AM
There are only 20 games and we just post what we see. So...there are only 19 more games left in 2007...so he has time to do something...but he didn't show much in game one. You either play well or you don't.....he didn't.

Well something caused Rex to play chuck & duck football last night. And we didn't spend the night blitzing. No, we didn't get any sacks. But the stats say our defense made Rex play chuck & duck (4.2 yds/attempt - one pass over ten yds) the whole time he was in there. I guess the other ten guys did that with no help from Mario.

And as I said earlier, I agree Mario could have done better; he does need to go all out on run pursuit. He should be running guys down from behind on those stretch plays to the other side. With his reported speed, there's no excuse not too.

So I'm not trying to convince anyone he played pro-bowl ball. Like I said before, he didn't. I'm just wondering why we singled him out to pick on when other guys' mis-plays cost us points. None of Mario's short comings or non-plays cost us a single point last night.

I guess its a case where when big expectations aren't met the disappointment level is really big too.

Vinny
08-13-2007, 12:59 AM
I guess its a case where when big expectations aren't met the disappointment level is really big too.
he just needs to beat his man and get some pressure...or not allow Benson a massive lane while he runs himself out of plays....we aren't asking him to be god.

real
08-13-2007, 01:04 AM
I'm not saying Mario played pro-bowl level ball last night because he didn't. I don't like the "jump on Mario" crap because I know what the root cause is. It boils down to we didn't get VY/RB. And we shouldn't take that out on Mario. Its just not right. That's my point and I think its all Leahmic is saying too.

But he's the focus of a lot of people's disappointment and/or embarrassment regarding the 2006 draft and I'm afraid that will never change. No matter what he does or doesn't do. That's just not right, IMHO.

Let's slow down and think about how the Bears played us and by so doing see how realistic your expectations were....

What were Grossman's stats on the night?
Don't look them up, they were 8 of 10 for 50 yds. His long pass of the night was just 12 yds. Take that one out and he completed 7 passes for 38 yds - 5.4 yds/completion or 4.2 yds/attempt. I don't need to tell you guys that that's the same crappy chuck & duck avg that YKW used to have. That's 3 & 4 step drops.

And even with them playing the quick dump-off passing game, I still counted 4-5 times Rex was pressured. Out of only ten attempts. Twice by N.D. - because Mario was double teamed - and once by Mario after being triple-teamed. Once he barely got the pass off while falling to the ground with someone around his legs - couldn't tell who it was.

And did you notice how many times the Bears kept both the TE and both backs in to help with pass protection? But the pressure was still there. The stats bear that out. Rex had no time to launch his mad bombs (he had 47 20+ yd completions and 8 40+ yd completions last year - Rex likes to go long). We gave him no time for a 7-step drop to work. Maybe it wasn't Mario but sommmmebody was at work. And it ain't like we blitzed all night.

Now, could Mario have had a better night?

You bet.

Everybody could have. I saw a coujple of plays where Mario didn't balls out pursue. Pi***d me off. Fast as he's supposed to be he should run guys down from behind. Walter could have made that 3rd down catch. He IS supposed to be a "possession receiver". That pi***d me off too. Schaub could have hit a wide open man in the endzone. That really pi***d me off because you don't get many "gimmes" like that in this game.

But its preseason. I have confidence we'll get all that fixed.

I also believe that if Mario doesn't play to the level Kubiak expects, he'll get the Travis Johnson/Jerome Mathis treatment. First overall pick or not.

What are we judging his performance on?

What's the comparison?

I'm sorry, but decent play doesn't cut it...The guy was chosen #1 overall...

I've taken up for Mario for a very long time, and I while I do think he can be a valuable asset to this team it just irks me that this guy has all that natural ability but can't translate it into playmaking...I mean he doesn't even look average at times...there were times last night where he just looked absolutely terrible...

I personally don't think Mario will ever live up to being the 1st overall and that is just something I've come to accept...

The good thing I noticed about Mario is that he is a bit more decisive...looks like he knew his assignments whereas last year he often looked lost...

But overall I was non-impressed with his performance...I didn't see the energy, nor the agressiveness I would have liked to have seen...He looked slow...

I will lay off him until next week, but I've pretty much made up my mind about what kind of DE Mario is...

real
08-13-2007, 01:10 AM
I guess its a case where when big expectations aren't met the disappointment level is really big too.


C'mon man....Most of us here are better than that...

Maybe the average fan expected him to be a sack machine last night...

I just wanted to see some explosion....some good technique...some consistent pressure....Him not opening gaping holes for the other team's RB....

real
08-13-2007, 01:15 AM
Mario is a bigger, more athletic, less-knowledgeable Anthony Weaver.

The end.

The Pencil Neck
08-13-2007, 01:18 AM
I don't like the "jump on Mario" crap because I know what the root cause is. It boils down to we didn't get VY/RB. And we shouldn't take that out on Mario. Its just not right. That's my point and I think its all Leahmic is saying too.

I think that's a gross oversimplification.

There may be a few people who are anti-Mario because we drafted him instead of whomever they wanted. But I think there are plenty of people who aren't happy with Mario for other reasons. He's a #1 overall pick and there are a lot of other DE's picked after him that are performing better. We paid a lot for what looked like massive potential but we're not getting a lot of production. For his first season, we had some flashes and glimpses but not much more than that. That in and of itself is reason enough to be unhappy. We've got a line full of #1 picks and we're not getting that level of production from it.

Personally, I don't think Mario looked as bad last night as people are making out. To me, he showed more moves than he had last year. He looked better to me. More confident and more fluid. I would expect that to translate into some big plays during the course of a full game. Even dominant DE's rarely average more than 1 sack per game and it's not right to expect a DE to pick up that sack right at the beginning of the game. Does anyone know how many plays Peppers was in for the Panthers? Cause he didn't make any sacks or tackles either but I think he started.

But... back to the point... people have other reasons for bashing Mario than RB/VY manlove. Possibly legitimate reasons but possibly not.

ObsiWan
08-13-2007, 01:26 AM
What are we judging his performance on?

What's the comparison?

I'm sorry, but decent play doesn't cut it...The guy was chosen #1 overall...

I've taken up for Mario for a very long time, and I while I do think he can be a valuable asset to this team it just irks me that this guys has all that natural ability but can't translate it into playmaking...

I personally don't think Mario will ever live up to being the 1st overall and that is just something I've come to accept...

The good thing I noticed about Mario is that he is a bit more decisive...looks like he knew his assignments whereas last year he often looked lost...

But overall I was non-impressed with his performance...I didn't see the energy, nor the agressiveness I would have liked to have seen...He looked slow...

I will lay off him until next week, but I've pretty much made up my mind about what kind of DE Mario is...

Excellent questions. Fair enough.

I don't have the answer for everyone. But for me, I don't think he's a Jevon Kearse/Julius Peppers type of DE. Earl 34 posted the early scouting report on Mario from nfl..com and it pretty much said the same thing. So if we're looking for a lightning first step that beats the OT off the ball every time, he ain't got it. Never has.

What I'm looking for is for him to learn to play the pro DE position better. Much better. Supposedly he has the strength to push the OT into the QB's lap. Dammit, do that. Learn to read the run plays, toss the blockers aside and make the play OR tie up 2/3 blockers so Amobi or DeMeco can make a play. And like I said earlier, on sweeps that go opposite him, run the RB down from behind - to hustle, not freakin' jog, in pursuit. Go in with his arms up and thereby take away the slant lane, and make the QB have to throw over 9 feet of DE. Let them know you're there EVERY play.

That's what I expect.

And as I've said in other threads, it wouldn't hurt for him to have a little Deacon Jones meanness in him. If he did, this thread probably wouldn't exist.

So, one more time, I'm not saying he played well. Not at all.

I'm just asking why only pick on him when other guys screw-ups cost us points but we ain't as hard on them? That's my question.

Vinny
08-13-2007, 01:27 AM
I'm just asking why only pick on him when other guys screw-ups cost us points but we ain't as hard on them? That's my question.
When the players you pay the most aren't your 'best players', your teams usually aren't very good in the NFL (see the David Carr Texans for the latest example). Thats probably some of the consternation from many of the fans.

question answered

ObsiWan
08-13-2007, 01:31 AM
C'mon man....Most of us here are better than that...

Maybe the average fan expected him to be a sack machine last night...

I just wanted to see some explosion....some good technique...some consistent pressure....Him not opening gaping holes for the other team's RB....

I agree.

I saw him bite on a fake pass/draw one time and take himself completely out of the play; and I mean 5 yds into the backfield too - he got suckered BAD. Did it happen more than once?

ObsiWan
08-13-2007, 01:50 AM
When the players you pay the most aren't your 'best players', your teams usually aren't very good in the NFL (see the David Carr Texans for the latest example). Thats probably some of the consternation from many of the fans.

question answered

Well, that goes to the heart of my "no 1st round rookie is worth what today's 1st round rookies are getting paid in today's Modern-Day NFL" philosophy. I hate that rookies come in making more than proven vets.

Call me old school, but no rookie, who has yet to take an NFL snap, should get more than someone who's been starting.

Set up a scale based on the position they play and what round they were drafted in. You get a bonus if you make the squad. Another bonus if you start. More bonus money if you meet certain position-related milestones - sacks, tackles, INTs, yds rushing, etc.

The money these guys get now days is insane. And that big money puts pressure on coaches to play some guys that, simply speaking, just ain't ready.

But, like I said, I'm old school. Maybe if they didn't pay these rooks so much, they'd have some money for the retired old heads that put the game on the map. And that's probably a whole 'nuther subject.

Mr. White
08-13-2007, 09:51 AM
Maybe it's just one preseason game, but if you add that to the lackluster performance that he had last year, then that's a cause for concern.

I don't buy the "he can't get motivated for preseason" argument. He's playing against guys that went to the Super Bowl last year. He should have a sense of urgency playing against them.

I remember a bunch of excuses for another overall first pick around here. The fact of the matter is that if a guy's good, then he won't require excuses.

Kaiser Toro
08-13-2007, 10:03 AM
I hope he mirrors that lackluster performance against the Dolphins where he batted down a 2 pt conversion attempt and against the Colts where he caused the TO that took the ball out of Peyton's hands and into Dayne's. Show me some behavioral progress (technique) while building incrementally on last year's productivity is what I am asking.

Berating a player ad nauseum that has one season and one pre season game under his belt, while playing injured and being moved from position to position, is a little played.

Mr. White
08-13-2007, 10:22 AM
I hope he mirrors that lackluster performance against the Dolphins where he batted down a 2 pt conversion attempt and against the Colts where he caused the TO that took the ball out of Peyton's hands and into Dayne's. Show me some behavioral progress (technique) while building incrementally on last year's productivity is what I am asking.

Berating a player ad nauseum that has one season and one pre season game under his belt, while playing injured and being moved from position to position, is a little played.

I spent countless hours sticking up for the guy last year. While he's showed some flashes, he has yet to prove that he's worth the first overall pick.

I don't think anyone would be in the wrong to expect results this year. By results, I mean a disruptive force on defense...more performances like the Dolphins game and the Giants game.

I'm still a Mario Williams fan. While I'm hoping for the best, I'm prepared for the possibility that he might just not be as good as advertised.

nunusguy
08-13-2007, 10:37 AM
I'm still a Mario Williams fan. While I'm hoping for the best, I'm prepared for the possibility that he might just not be as good as advertised.

I've never been a Mario fan in the sense that I approved of his pick with the #1 last year in lieu of available options. But lets wait awhile before we say this year is a continuation of what was a disappointing rookie year. Actually, I'm gonna try to basically give him a pass in the entire preseason. But beginning with the regular season opener against the Chiefs, no more MR. Nice-guy from this poster if we don't see what we have a right to expect.
The one thing that I don't like to hear is from the Texans organization about how Okoye will benefit Mario, implying Mario and not the rookie is the one in most need of help. I dunno, but somehow that seems to be the reverse of what the roles should be ?

The1ApplePie
08-13-2007, 10:43 AM
I think Mario is a symbol to a lot of fans of the Texans' consistent comittment to mediocrity. McNair tossed a bunch of money at Carr and Anthony Weaver, then refused to pony up the dough for Reggie.

The Texans have spent a ton of money on the D, and have done next to nothing to fix the offense. Spend a lot on a QB, then refuse to pay for any weapons or linemen to help him out.

Schaub may be better than Carr, but he still has the same basic O-line and only AJ to throw to. Green is the only difference from last year on the offensive side.

Mr. White
08-13-2007, 10:52 AM
As an aside, something to consider is that the guy was 21 years old when he was drafted. That makes him 22 now. Most 22-year-old football players are still in college.

Add to that the 19-year-old the Texans just drafted this year who was invisible at best and dominated at worst on Saturday night.

Something to think about is that maybe the Texans are drafting guys that aren't mentally ready to play in the NFL yet. Guys that are barely into adulthood might not be ready for the dirty tricks that veteran NFL linemen have in store for them.

The1ApplePie
08-13-2007, 10:59 AM
If you want to compare effort:

Reggie busted his butt in his few plays on Friday. Ripped a 16 yard run up the middle, and split double coverage on a pass, where he out jumped a CB and a SS and made the catch, before getting decked.

Bush never gives up. Has 5 guys around him in the backfield after another draw play, he at least tries to juke out the guys instead of just laying down. Compare to Mario giving up on a pass rush after getting stood up by a back up LT.

Kaiser Toro
08-13-2007, 11:01 AM
I think Mario is a symbol to a lot of fans of the Texans' consistent comittment to mediocrity. McNair tossed a bunch of money at Carr and Anthony Weaver, then refused to pony up the dough for Reggie.

The Texans have spent a ton of money on the D, and have done next to nothing to fix the offense. Spend a lot on a QB, then refuse to pay for any weapons or linemen to help him out.

Schaub may be better than Carr, but he still has the same basic O-line and only AJ to throw to. Green is the only difference from last year on the offensive side.

Or the consistent commitment to bitching and a careless attitude towards on how a salary cap should be managed for the benefit of the team.

Kaiser Toro
08-13-2007, 11:05 AM
If you want to compare effort:

Reggie busted his butt in his few plays on Friday. Ripped a 16 yard run up the middle, and split double coverage on a pass, where he out jumped a CB and a SS and made the catch, before getting decked.

Bush never gives up. Has 5 guys around him in the backfield after another draw play, he at least tries to juke out the guys instead of just laying down. Compare to Mario giving up on a pass rush after getting stood up by a back up LT.

Reggie and Mario were the second best rookies on their units last year, but both helped the year over year growth of both units. Each team will look for personal growth on the field that will hopefully equate to more production by the unit they are on.

Outside of that there is no comparision in the bright and shiny things that Bush can offer in a 1 second clip on ESPN than any DE can.

The1ApplePie
08-13-2007, 11:14 AM
Reggie and Mario were the second best rookies on their units last year, but both helped the year over year growth of both units. Each team will look for personal growth on the field that will hopefully equate to more production by the unit they are on.

Outside of that there is no comparision in the bright and shiny things that Bush can offer in a 1 second clip on ESPN than any DE can.

Sure there is. Bush was/is an impact player, who is giving his all in Pre-season.

Mario so far has been a mediocre DE who is sleepwalking through Pre season.

MarioWrecksIt
08-13-2007, 11:16 AM
If you want to compare effort:

Reggie busted his butt in his few plays on Friday. Ripped a 16 yard run up the middle, and split double coverage on a pass, where he out jumped a CB and a SS and made the catch, before getting decked.

Bush never gives up. Has 5 guys around him in the backfield after another draw play, he at least tries to juke out the guys instead of just laying down. Compare to Mario giving up on a pass rush after getting stood up by a back up LT.

I feel like the 2006 draft just happened all over again based on these posts. I said it then and ill say it now, comparing productivity between a DE and a RB is apples and oranges. Im not saying Mario performed like everyone expected him to on saturday but most of the things that DEs so cant be accounted for with numbers i.e. taking on double teams to free up other linemen, holding off an OT so the LBs can come up and make a play, etc. So please no more comparisons with reggie/vince and Mario and how they have such good numbers and Mario doesnt because its an irrelevant stat. Again Im not pleased with Mario's performance and think that his effort should mirror that of Reggie and Vince and the other great players in the league but he is not either of them and never will be. Lets wait until the reg. season starts before we get into how much of a "mistake" that pick was.

Kaiser Toro
08-13-2007, 11:21 AM
Sure there is. Bush was/is an impact player, who is giving his all in Pre-season.

Mario so far has been a mediocre DE who is sleepwalking through Pre season.

They were both impact players last year via their individual contributions. Bush had negligible impact as a RB, but was very good as a WR and PR.

Please define giving one's all, at their specific position and by working on their challenges, in the pre season. Moreover, what was Mario's challenges last year and how do you think is the best way to work on those challenges?

The1ApplePie
08-13-2007, 11:30 AM
Please define giving one's all, at their specific position and by working on their challenges, in the pre season. Moreover, what was Mario's challenges last year and how do you think is the best way to work on those challenges?

Giving one's all on the D-Line would be at least keeping your man from shoving you back into the LB behind you. Keep a consistent motor going at all times, instead of half-assing it on pass rush. Not totally running out of the play and opening a huge hole for an RB to run through.

Mario's two big things are technique and motivation. Running into the OT and giving up when you don't knock him over isn't going to cut it. Getting destroyed all game by Chris Cooley in the open field isn't going to cut it either.

Kaiser Toro
08-13-2007, 11:41 AM
Giving one's all on the D-Line would be at least keeping your man from shoving you back into the LB behind you..

I will review the tape to see if Mario was knocked back at the point of attack into a LB.

Keep a consistent motor going at all times, instead of half-assing it on pass rush. Not totally running out of the play and opening a huge hole for an RB to run through. Mario's two big things are technique and motivation. Running into the OT and giving up when you don't knock him over isn't going to cut it.

Agreed, except if he may be working on technique at 3/4 speed to get the behavior right for a more productive tomorrow. Running out of the play is something I do not not like to see either, but will say that great DE's do as well. BTW, being double teamed is providing value to the defense at large.

Getting destroyed all game by Chris Cooley in the open field isn't going to cut it either.

Chris Cooley plays for the Redskins who we have not played since early last year. Where does this fit into your methodology and why?

real
08-13-2007, 11:58 AM
Sorry, but Mario didn't show me anything pointing towards him becoming dominant...I didn't see one encouraging thing other than the fact that his is big and strong...

Hopefully that wasn't a prelude of things to come and Mario is able to turn it on "when it matters".

I donn't know what good going 3/4 speed is though...I would think that he would be trying to get into football playing mode and trying to make things happen while going full speed like the rest of the defense...

I don't think it has anything do do with his effort...I just think he is what he is...

Kaiser Toro
08-13-2007, 12:06 PM
Sorry, but Mario didn't show me anything pointing towards him becoming dominant...I didn't see one encouraging thing other than the fact that his is big and strong...

Hopefully that wasn't a prelude of things to come and Mario is able to turn it on "when it matters".

I donn't know what good going 3/4 speed is though...I would think that he would be trying to get into football playing mode and trying to make things happen while going full speed like the rest of the defense...

I don't think it has anything do do with his effort...I just think he is what he is...

Not sure why you feel the need to be sorry, but to each his or her own for feeling sorry.

There is a big difference in calling out an individual performance in a pre season game and extrapolating that instance to write the NFL history books from April 2006 to an indefinite date in time as some are wanton to do.

I was unimpressed by him on Saturday, but I don't think we have someone who can provide more value than him at that position at this moment in his career and contract. If the defense takes a step backwards this year and Mario shows no improvement I will join the chorus, but until that time the defense posted a result that continues to tick in the right direction.

Shaft75
08-13-2007, 12:19 PM
One question...

Should Miami and Carolina be worried about Peppers and Taylor? Peppers played and had no stats whatsoever and Taylor hasn't even hit the field. Tamba Hali hasn't done a thing for the Chiefs either. Mark Anderson, nothing. Tampa Bay go another 1st round bust in Gaines Adams, he only has two tackles!

I really don't think that any of the DE's in the NFL can meet some of our fans expectations...:wild:

real
08-13-2007, 12:43 PM
...the defense posted a result that continues to tick in the right direction.

I agree...

I just think we could have gotten similar or better results with guys who weren't taken #1 overall...

Mario being a scrub isnt a question for me. Whether or not he'll be a stud is. Haven't seen much to lead me to believe he will be a beast, but I've seen enough to make me weary.

Porky
08-13-2007, 12:45 PM
I said it before the draft, and I haven't changed my position one iota since. Mario is a workout warrior, plain and simple.

He was at best a mid first pick, until CC started drooling because he could run faster than most at his size, and was extremely strong. CC practically had to pull his toungue off the floor. Never mind if he can actually play football.

Mario Williams = Mike Mamula

real
08-13-2007, 12:53 PM
One question...

Should Miami and Carolina be worried about Peppers and Taylor? Peppers played and had no stats whatsoever and Taylor hasn't even hit the field. Tamba Hali hasn't done a thing for the Chiefs either. Mark Anderson, nothing. Tampa Bay go another 1st round bust in Gaines Adams, he only has two tackles!

I really don't think that any of the DE's in the NFL can meet some of our fans expectations...:wild:

Haven't seen anyone cite his lack of stats as their reason for concern...

Shaft75
08-13-2007, 01:04 PM
Haven't seen anyone cite his lack of stats as their reason for concern...

I haven't seen anyone cite anything worthy of being taken seriously...

The fact that you are talking about this after the first preseason game is a little disturbing. I guess you have very high standards...

rmartin65
08-13-2007, 01:11 PM
One question...

Should Miami and Carolina be worried about Peppers and Taylor? Peppers played and had no stats whatsoever and Taylor hasn't even hit the field. Tamba Hali hasn't done a thing for the Chiefs either. Mark Anderson, nothing. Tampa Bay go another 1st round bust in Gaines Adams, he only has two tackles!

I really don't think that any of the DE's in the NFL can meet some of our fans expectations...:wild:

The other guys have proven their worth, for the most part. Mario has not proved anything.

real
08-13-2007, 01:16 PM
I haven't seen anyone cite anything worthy of being taken seriously...

The fact that you are talking about this after the first preseason game is a little disturbing. I guess you have very high standards...

The fact that his "possible potential" is over ruling reality is disturbing...

dalemurphy
08-13-2007, 01:17 PM
I said it before the draft, and I haven't changed my position one iota since. Mario is a workout warrior, plain and simple.

He was at best a mid first pick, until CC started drooling because he could run faster than most at his size, and was extremely strong. CC practically had to pull his toungue off the floor. Never mind if he can actually play football.

Mario Williams = Mike Mamula


Bad comparison. Mike Mamula was an undersized DLman. Also, if Mario should have been a mid-first round pick that still isn't evidence he won't be a good or great player. A lot of guys in that area become excellent players.

Shaft75
08-13-2007, 01:30 PM
Okay, so how do you go about picking Mario's game apart with only 10 plays worth of film on the first preseason game of this season???

Like I said... With the standards that some of our fans have, I don't think that any DE in the league would be living to their potential.

real
08-13-2007, 01:34 PM
Okay, so how do you go about picking Mario's game apart with only 10 plays worth of film on the first preseason game of this season???

Like I said... With the standards that some of our fans have, I don't think that any DE in the league would be living to their potential.

So when is it all clear for informed opinions to be made ?

Should we set an official time now, or just wait 'til we get your go ahead ?

ObsiWan
08-13-2007, 01:34 PM
I'm beginning to believe Porky is right. Casserly got over-enamored and mistook a physical illusion and some suspect stats for a football player...

....again.

ObsiWan
08-13-2007, 01:36 PM
Reggie and Mario were the second best rookies on their units last year, but both helped the year over year growth of both units. Each team will look for personal growth on the field that will hopefully equate to more production by the unit they are on.

Outside of that there is no comparision in the bright and shiny things that Bush can offer in a 1 second clip on ESPN than any DE can.

Actually, Owen Daniel was the 2nd best rookie on our team last year. Mario was the most physically gifted.

real
08-13-2007, 01:38 PM
Actually, Owen Daniel was the 2nd best rookie on our team last year. Mario was the most physically gifted.

If Spencer doesn't get hurt, I'm not sure Mario isn't the 4th best...

Shaft75
08-13-2007, 01:38 PM
So when is it all clear for judgements to be made ?

Should we set an official time now, or just until we get your go ahead ?

If you want to make a claim as to what kind of player he will be this year after 10 plays, be my guest. There may be a job for you in Bristol someday...

real
08-13-2007, 01:43 PM
If you want to make a claim as to what kind of player he will be this year after 10 plays, be my guest. There may be a job for you in Bristol someday...

If you want to keep making the foolish assertation that an opinion has been formed of Mario solely from this one pre-season game, then you may be my guest as well...

There may be a job some day for you playing spin doctor...

real
08-13-2007, 01:49 PM
Can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not saying Mario is trash. I think he's a good player.

I just don't think he was worth the 1st overall. I definitely think he is an asset and will help us win, but tying up blockers and drawing double teams isn't exactly what I had in mind when we chose him #1 overall.

Porky
08-13-2007, 01:49 PM
Bad comparison. Mike Mamula was an undersized DLman. Also, if Mario should have been a mid-first round pick that still isn't evidence he won't be a good or great player. A lot of guys in that area become excellent players.

Right. Mamula was more undersized, somewhere around 255 if I recall. But, the main point I was making was that the Eagles fell in love with him at the combine and in his workouts. Heck, I think Mamula basically caused someone to coin the phrase workout warrior. I stand by what I said - Mario = Mamula.

I hope he can prove me wrong, but so far I have seen nothing that makes me think different. And, Mamula played about 7 years. He wasn't a true bust in the vein of a Ryan Leaf, but he never lived up to his hype or his billing. I think we will see that in Mario imo. :devilpig:

Marcus
08-13-2007, 02:00 PM
I'm beginning to believe Porky is right. Casserly got over-enamored and mistook a physical illusion and some suspect stats for a football player...

....again.

Where does it say anywhere that Mario was a Casserly pick?

Or is it that Casserly simply represents all supposed bad picks? I think, for some, if they make a bad pick in in the year 2025, some will still point the finger at Casserly.

Rediculous.

Double Barrel
08-13-2007, 02:02 PM
The 2006 is on Kubiak's staff, IMO, regardless of who the GM was at the time.

Does Casserly also get credit for DeMeco and the rest of the draft? Or just the bad one(s)?

powerfuldragon
08-13-2007, 02:03 PM
Where does it say anywhere that Mario was a Casserly pick?

Or is it that it's just Casserly represents all supposed bad picks? I think, for some, if they make a bad pick in in the year 2025, some will still point the finger at Casserly.

Rediculous.

are you joking?

casserly dropped his john hancock on the mario williams pick. he said he was proud of it.

infantrycak
08-13-2007, 02:04 PM
Where does it say anywhere that Mario was a Casserly pick?

No where--as a matter of fact McClain reported last year that the final call was Kubiak's to get Mario and Casserly was in the Bush camp.

Rediculous.

Another repeat offense of being diculous.

Marcus
08-13-2007, 02:07 PM
Actually, Owen Daniel was the 2nd best rookie on our team last year. Mario was the most physically gifted.

Now, Owen Daniel was in fact a Casserly pick. It was the top of the fourth round, and Kubiak hadn't heard of him until Casserly pointed him out. He gave all the credit to Casserly the following day at the news conference.

Marcus
08-13-2007, 02:13 PM
The 2006 is on Kubiak's staff, IMO, regardless of who the GM was at the time.

Does Casserly also get credit for DeMeco and the rest of the draft? Or just the bad one(s)?

Just the bad ones.:rolleyes: Never let a few facts get in the way of a good old fashioned whipping boy hysteria.

jdog
08-13-2007, 02:14 PM
Here's some rookie seasons for defensive ends:

Jason Taylor played in 13 games and had 5 sacks (73rd pick).

Richard Seymour played in 13 games and had 3 sacks (6th pick).

Dwight Freeney played in 16 games and had 13 sacks (11th pick).

Trevor Pryce played in 8 games and had 2 sacks (28th pick).

Aaron Schobel played in 16 games and had 6.5 sacks (46th pick).

Julius Peppers played in 12 games and had 12 sacks (2nd pick).

Mario Williams played in 16 games and had 4.5 sacks (1st pick).

ObsiWan
08-13-2007, 02:17 PM
If you want to make a claim as to what kind of player he will be this year after 10 plays, be my guest. There may be a job for you in Bristol someday...

I think Mario, given his physical attributes, will be a solid player for a long time with the Texans. But until he adapts that "I want to make EVERY tackle" attitude that DeMeco has he'll be a disappointment to most folks. He won't be what some folks expect.

Hey, we've been thru this before, we'll get it fixed...
- had a QB "with a cannon for an arm" but who didn't have the drive to study and improve his game...
- had a KR with blazing speed but didn't want to work improve his game to be a standout WR or his conditioning so he could stay healthy and contribute
- had a 1st round DT with the size to be hell on wheels but was too lazy to stay in shape; didn't seem to have the drive to play to his capabilities

Those "problems" were eliminated. This one will be too...
...one way or another.

Porky
08-13-2007, 02:22 PM
C'mon people. Casserly was drooling all over Mario. He even said that he had Mario rated higher than Peppers coming out.

He was very high on Bush and Mario, kind of a 1a and 1b kind of thing, and yes Kubes made the final choice, but it was Casserly and the scouting dept that put him on that pedestal.

If I as GM came to you and said, hey, listen here, see we got this Williams guy, and he can run 2.5 in the 40 see, and he can leap tall buildings in a single bound, and stop locomotives with his hand, see we think he is better than Peppers, and he can stop Manning dead in his tracks see. Or you can have a dynamic, but Part time offensive player, see. And hey, listen here, that Vince guy, see he is no good ya see. Hey, listen here Gary, which one you want see?

techrecruit1
08-13-2007, 02:30 PM
I won't judge him off this preseason game but if he doesn't pick it up and start making some above average plays he's going to be catching heat from the masses in no time.

I know you can't have a great game every time you walk on the field but here's my opinion. If your going to command above avg salary in whatever job you do I expect you to outperform your peers 9 out of 10 times with no excuses. ROI baby ROI

Marcus
08-13-2007, 02:39 PM
If I as GM came to you and said, hey, listen here, see we got this Williams guy, and he can run 2.5 in the 40 see, and he can leap tall buildings in a single bound, and stop locomotives with his hand, see we think he is better than Peppers, and he can stop Manning dead in his tracks see. Or you can have a dynamic, but Part time offensive player, see. And hey, listen here, that Vince guy, see he is no good ya see. Hey, listen here Gary, which one you want see?

:beerfunnel:

Kaiser Toro
08-13-2007, 02:40 PM
Actually, Owen Daniel was the 2nd best rookie on our team last year. Mario was the most physically gifted.

Reading is fundamental, nice try.

2BCF
08-13-2007, 02:42 PM
Watched all the plays with Mario again and only saw him double-teamed 2 or 3 times.

He was easily pushed in the direction the OT wanted on a consistent basis.

He attempted to spin on the OT twice...but it was too late both times.

ObsiWan
08-13-2007, 02:47 PM
Where does it say anywhere that Mario was a Casserly pick?

Or is it that Casserly simply represents all supposed bad picks? I think, for some, if they make a bad pick in in the year 2025, some will still point the finger at Casserly.

Rediculous.

It says so at the official team website, sunshine....
this is a quote from Casserly's going away press conference...
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=2498

Casserly’s boldest move, which ultimately could be his most successful, came a couple weeks ago, when he drafted North Carolina State defensive end Mario Williamshttp://assets.houstontexans.com/images/relatedicon.gif with the top overall pick. Considering the availability of hometown hero Vince Young and USC running back Reggie Bush, the selection could have been the most debatable in draft history.

Casserly gets credit for all the 2006 picks, IMO. And that draft was, by far, his best work.

Brando
08-13-2007, 02:52 PM
Actually, Owen Daniel was the 2nd best rookie on our team last year. Mario was the most physically gifted.

On the defensive side of the ball he was the 2nd best rookie as was Reggie was the 2nd best rookie on offense for the Saints. Colston had a better year than Reggie.

From watching the game again. Grossman pretty much got the ball out of his hands with quick passes.

On the second play of offense for the Bears he was double teamed but still put pressure on Grossman who did good by getting the ball out to Muhammed.

I counted 2 QB pressures for Mario. I definitley did not see a lazy person.

The only "bad" play was being blocked away from tackling Benson.

Relax, Mario doubters, it was only limited action for the first team.

HOU-TEX
08-13-2007, 03:01 PM
On the defensive side of the ball he was the 2nd best rookie as was Reggie was the 2nd best rookie on offense for the Saints. Colston had a better year than Reggie.

From watching the game again. Grossman pretty much got the ball out of his hands with quick passes.

On the second play of offense for the Bears he was double teamed but still put pressure on Grossman who did good by getting the ball out to Muhammed.

I counted 2 QB pressures for Mario. I definitley did not see a lazy person.

The only "bad" play was being blocked away from tackling Benson.

Relax, Mario doubters, it was only limited action for the first team.

I agree 100%. I think Mario will do just fine.

Even though he hasn't produced as much as a fan would hope, I still think he can be something special in the future.

Our 06 draft was the best in frachise history.

BTW, I like the signature.:cool:

Brando
08-13-2007, 03:05 PM
I agree 100%. I think Mario will do just fine.

Even though he hasn't produced as much as a fan would hope, I still think he can be something special in the future.

Our 06 draft was the best in frachise history.

BTW, I like the signature.:cool:

Thanks.
:cool:

Marcus
08-13-2007, 03:45 PM
It says so at the official team website, sunshine....
this is a quote from Casserly's going away press conference...
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=2498

Casserly gets credit for all the 2006 picks, IMO. And that draft was, by far, his best work.

Nice of him to stand up there and be the fall guy since he knew he was already on his way out.

Doesn't tell me squat as to what really happened behind closed doors. Better ask Porky since he revealed that he was the 'fly on the wall'.

ObsiWan
08-13-2007, 03:49 PM
On the defensive side of the ball he was the 2nd best rookie as was Reggie was the 2nd best rookie on offense for the Saints. Colston had a better year than Reggie.

From watching the game again. Grossman pretty much got the ball out of his hands with quick passes.

On the second play of offense for the Bears he was double teamed but still put pressure on Grossman who did good by getting the ball out to Muhammed.

I counted 2 QB pressures for Mario. I definitley did not see a lazy person.

The only "bad" play was being blocked away from tackling Benson.

Relax, Mario doubters, it was only limited action for the first team.

I tried to tell people this a couple of pages ago. Rex averaged about 5-1/2 yds/attempt. And if you take his long completion out of the mix (all of 12 whole yds) that number goes down to 4.2 yds/attempt.

Those are 3-step drop, chuck & duck numbers.

Mario will be solid. He just won't fill some folk's need to for him to outshine VY or RB.
Ever.
Its the nature of his position. No DE will have as many highlight reel opportunities as a QB or a RB.

ObsiWan
08-13-2007, 04:06 PM
Nice of him to stand up there and be the fall guy since he knew he was already on his way out.

Doesn't tell me squat as to what really happened behind closed doors. Better ask Porky since he revealed that he was the 'fly on the wall'.

So I give you a quote from the guy's own mouth... from the official team website

...and you still won't believe it.



How about this press conf. that took place Monday before the draft...


General manager Charley Casserly ended months of speculation Wednesday by announcing that the Texans are in negotiations with two players to be the first overall pick in the 2006 NFL Draft (http://www.houstontexans.com/wpimages/video.gif (http://play.rbn.com/?url=nfl/nfl/open/2003/texans/demand/casserly042606.rm&proto=rtsp)).

Either University of Southern California running back Reggie Bush or North Carolina State defensive end Mario Williamshttp://assets.houstontexans.com/images/relatedicon.gif will join the Texans Saturday as the team’s top pick.

Casserly and vice president of football administration Dan Ferens are working closely with the agents for Bush and Williams, while owner Bob McNair receives constant updates. Considering the Texans rate the players equally, the team’s choice could depend in part on how the contract talks proceed.

“If a player reaches an agreement, that could have an effect on our decision,” Casserly said. “The reason you want to try to get an agreement is that no one wants a player that is out of training camp and missing time. Obviously, (it’s beneficial to) use the advantage you have within the system and the rules to negotiate before the draft.”


I will always believe the statement in bold to be the determining factor. You guys know how McNair and Casserly always like to brag they've never had a significant holdout, right?
Well, this says that the F.O. made the same offer to both Bush and Williams on Monday before the draft.

Reggie said, let's negotiate further".

Mario said, "where do I sign?"

I will always believe that's why Mario is here and Reggie isn't. All that, "We have to put pressure on Manning" noise was just spin.

But like you said, we may never REALLY know the whole scoop. But just for grins, here's more of that same press conference....

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=2447


There remains a slim possibility that the Texans will trade down. But because of the caliber of players available at the top of the draft, Casserly believes most teams are pleased with their current positions.

“(I’m) not real optimistic about it,” he said. “We’re sitting here today and it’s Wednesday at noon and we don’t have a trade offer. It’s not because we haven’t called people. Monday morning I called teams behind us, and I won’t tell you who I called or where I stopped, but you can obviously figure I called teams immediately behind us and there was no interest. And that was not my first phone call to them. That was just my latest (call).”

Today’s news undoubtedly will disappoint the large contingent of Vince Young supporters that have lobbied the Texans to draft the versatile Texas quarterback and Houston native.

Although he spends most of his day in meetings at Reliant Stadium, Casserly is keenly aware of public sentiment. He believes the amount of support for Young, and the pressure on the Texans to draft him, has been unprecedented.

That being said, the Texans are ready to move forward without the former Madison High School star.

“Vince Young is a heck of a football player, he’s a heck of a young man and he’s a joy to watch as a football player,” Casserly said. “I understand fans’ passion. If I were a fan, I would root for Vince Young.

“That is why people love Vince Young: They think that is the right decision (for us) to win the most games. We didn’t think it was the right decision to win the most games for us. We can’t let ourselves be influenced by public pressure. You can never do that, because public pressure can sway. We all know that. So let’s just make what we think is the best decision for the team and make it in a logical and deliberate way like we’ve always done.”


Nothing like a trip back in time to bring back those fond memories, eh?

Shaft75
08-13-2007, 04:31 PM
If you want to keep making the foolish assertation that an opinion has been formed of Mario solely from this one pre-season game, then you may be my guest as well...

Hmmm... So you are saying that last year, he didn't do that well? Considering the injury and all? He dominated in college, does well in practice most of the time, and played through a painful injury last year. So what in the hell are you judging him on? Give me your analysis... Plays too high? Strength? Intensity? Speed? Knowledge? What would make him better to you?

There may be a job some day for you playing spin doctor...

All around dumbest comment of the year... It's like coming back with "blah blah blah... your mama."

real
08-13-2007, 04:50 PM
Hmmm... So you are saying that last year, he didn't do that well?

LOL....ummmm, yeah.....



Considering the injury and all? He dominated in college, does well in practice most of the time, and played through a painful injury last year. So what in the hell are you judging him on? Give me your analysis... Plays too high? Strength? Intensity? Speed? Knowledge? What would make him better to you?



Can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not saying Mario is trash. I think he's a good player.

I just don't think he was worth the 1st overall. I definitely think he is an asset and will help us win, but tying up blockers and drawing double teams isn't exactly what I had in mind when we chose him #1 overall.

I agree...

I just think we could have gotten similar or better results with guys who weren't taken #1 overall...

Mario being a scrub isnt a question for me. Whether or not he'll be a stud is. Haven't seen much to lead me to believe he will be a beast, but I've seen enough to make me weary.

Reading is fundamental....

Work on it...

Second Honeymoon
08-13-2007, 05:05 PM
Mario better have been going through the motions last Saturday because if that is the way he is going to approach the regular season, he needs to find a new occupation.

He showed NOTHING. It's that easy. He was horrible but lets all hope that he brings it up a notch or twenty for the regular season because the level of effort and heart was just pathetic. truly pathetic.

The moment that Mario was brought out of the game, the Texans began to put some measure of pressure on the QB. The guys behind him are simply better at this point. And that is just pathetic. Did I say pathetic? ok, good.

I understood the logic of the MW pick and if/when Mario blossoms into a true NFL difference maker, we may all feel a lot better. but at this time he looks average at best and nothing special. Someone on the defense or a coach needs to ride his arse during the film sessions. If he plays like that Saturday afternoon, Kubiak needs to call him out and not say he was 'happy' with Mario's performance.

get it going Mario. we are all counting on ya.

GO TEXANS!!

Shaft75
08-13-2007, 05:10 PM
LOL....ummmm, yeah.....








Reading is fundamental....

Work on it...

Am I supposed to read between the lines? Tying up blockers and double teams. Lame critique.

So, you have a gut feeling that he won't be a "great" player? Horrible analysis if you ask me. To ESPN you go...:gathering:

Honoring Earl 34
08-13-2007, 05:11 PM
I understood the logic of the MW pick and if/when Mario blossoms into a true NFL difference maker, we may all feel a lot better. but at this time he looks average at best and nothing special. Someone on the defense or a coach needs to ride his arse during the film sessions. If he plays like that Saturday afternoon, Kubiak needs to call him out and not say he was 'happy' with Mario's performance.

get it going Mario. we are all counting on ya.

GO TEXANS!!


My biggest fear is , you don't spend the first pick in the draft on a guy you have to motivate .

Second Honeymoon
08-13-2007, 05:16 PM
My biggest fear is , you don't spend the first pick in the draft on a guy you have to motivate .

exactly. it seems to me like he just doesn't love football and competition. he seems like the type of guy that had football thrust upon him due to his size and athleticism. it doesnt seem that he found football...football found him. does he have a standard of excellence befitting his 1st overall pick status? early reports are NO.

i just want the guy to play hard and if he gets hurt, oh well. to play scared, timid, and afraid of injury is a lame way to go through your football career.

start balling, Mario. puhlease. your performance was pathetic v. the Bears.

ObsiWan
08-13-2007, 05:34 PM
My biggest fear is , you don't spend the first pick in the draft on a guy you have to motivate .

At the risk of repeating myself, this ain't the first time we drafted (or acquired at significant expense) a guy that required "additional motivation"...

We have...
- had a QB "with a cannon for an arm" but who didn't have the drive to study and improve his game...
- had a KR with blazing speed but didn't want to work improve his game to be a standout WR or his conditioning so he could stay healthy and contribute
- had a 1st round DT with the size to be hell on wheels but was too lazy to stay in shape; didn't seem to have the drive to play to his capabilities
- had a DB we gave high round picks to get, that supposedly had blazing speed (from Oakland, I believe) but didn't have the fire to make a tackle and sometimes disappeared on coverage.


and I'm sure I'm missing somebody...

Anyway, there's a new sheriff in town. His motto is "Produce or hit the streets". If Mario doesn't produce, he will be no exception.

real
08-13-2007, 05:46 PM
Am I supposed to read between the lines? Tying up blockers and double teams. Lame critique.

So, you have a gut feeling that he won't be a "great" player? Horrible analysis if you ask me. To ESPN you go...:gathering:

Guess that kinda went over your head....:)

No worries--I can spell it out for ya' one more time...

Here we go:

I don't think Mario sucks. I don't think he's a terrible ball player.

I just don't think he's showing signs of becoming dominant, AKA worthy of the first overall pick.

Why ?

-He often gets handled by solitary linemen
-No non-stop motor
-No Burst of the edge
-his "moves" are suspect at best and god awful at worst
-Runs himself out of plays
-I don't get the impression that he loves his craft
-His workout numbers (bench press, 40 times, vertical jump,) do not consistently translate to on field play
-Being double teamed means nothing; the first overall pick should be beating double teams, not simply absorbing them to free others up
-Comes off the ball too high..........still

Question: Other than this "potential" that Mario has, what have you seen out of him that you haven't seen average DE's do ?

bayshorebevo
08-13-2007, 05:51 PM
There is no way Casserly picked Mario. He was a lame duck guy that had been fired after going 2-14. Nobody as an owner would give a lame duck the opportunity to decide the #1 overall pick unless he was out of his mind, especially with what was available that year. Casserly was a sacrificial lamb/lightning rod.

Runner
08-13-2007, 06:19 PM
We don't know if Mario was giving full effort, he has RE pretty much secured, really no reason to go out there and give 100% if you have a spot secured.


I would be disappointed if this is the reason. I saw enough of this mentality in the Capers years.

Honoring Earl 34
08-13-2007, 07:06 PM
At the risk of repeating myself, this ain't the first time we drafted (or acquired at significant expense) a guy that required "additional motivation"...


and I'm sure I'm missing somebody...

Anyway, there's a new sheriff in town. His motto is "Produce or hit the streets". If Mario doesn't produce, he will be no exception.

OK ... I'm tired of being the land of the misfit toys .

Is this an over reaction on trying to be a swell bunch of guys .

The1ApplePie
08-13-2007, 07:32 PM
Mario got signed because he was cheaper. Simple as that.

Kubes might have contributed some to the pick with the arrogance that his system could make any RB good and he was the Jesus of QB coaches, so he could win with Carr.

ObsiWan
08-13-2007, 08:38 PM
There is no way Casserly picked Mario. He was a lame duck guy that had been fired after going 2-14. Nobody as an owner would give a lame duck the opportunity to decide the #1 overall pick unless he was out of his mind, especially with what was available that year. Casserly was a sacrificial lamb/lightning rod.

Another one. Even after I posted their own words?!

So what you guys are saying is that Bob McNair and Charlie Casserly are flat out, no-good, bald-faced liars...?

Geez, I've never seen such a bad case of: "Don't bother me with the facts, my mind is made up!" in my life.

Oh and another thing, Casserly didn't resign until after the draft. Sometime in mid-May I believe. Per the official team record, he was not fired. Capers was fired. Casserly resigned, supposedly to take a position in the NFL league office.
I can go get the press release on that too if you like.

bayshorebevo
08-13-2007, 08:58 PM
The press release? LOL, you're kidding me.

ObsiWan
08-13-2007, 09:07 PM
The press release? LOL, you're kidding me.
No, neighbor, I'm not.

DO you think McNair and Casserly are bald-faced liars? Yes or no....?

If so, why root for such a low-life guy's team??

Rex King
08-13-2007, 09:11 PM
I have to believe that Kubiak and McNair both had a lot to do with the pick. They're not going to saddle a first-year coach with a pick he doesn't want.

Mario didn't play like a first-round pick, and he doesn't look explosive enough to be a dominant edge rusher, but he wasn't that bad. He did get pressure - leaped at the QB with hands up, but Grossman made a great throw to the sideline. Also made a nice move to come back inside, but Grossman had taken a three-step drop and the ball was already gone. Fought through a double team. That's in two series. I don't see where you all get the impression he wasn't playing hard. But I have to agree, if he can't beat the LT with his first step, he may be better off at LE.

ObsiWan
08-13-2007, 09:21 PM
I have to believe that Kubiak and McNair both had a lot to do with the pick. They're not going to saddle a first-year coach with a pick he doesn't want.

Mario didn't play like a first-round pick, and he doesn't look explosive enough to be a dominant edge rusher, but he wasn't that bad. He did get pressure - leaped at the QB with hands up, but Grossman made a great throw to the sideline. Also made a nice move to come back inside, but Grossman had taken a three-step drop and the ball was already gone. Fought through a double team. That's in two series. I don't see where you all get the impression he wasn't playing hard. But I have to agree, if he can't beat the LT with his first step, he may be better off at LE.

On the other hand, does it make sense to think that a former offensive coordinator would pick a DE over a Heisman-caliber RB?

You'll never convince me it wasn't Casserly and McNair with that silly "we never have holdouts" crap that made them pick Mario (who signed before the draft) vs. Reggie (who held out with the Saints and would have held out with us).

Especially when he basically says as much at the press conference the Weds. before the draft.
-- “If a player reaches an agreement, that could have an effect on our decision,”
That's GM-speak for we'll take the guy that accepts our deal first.

ReliantTexan
08-13-2007, 09:37 PM
Mario got signed because he was cheaper. Simple as that.

Kubes might have contributed some to the pick with the arrogance that his system could make any RB good and he was the Jesus of QB coaches, so he could win with Carr.I can't blame them though for not wanting to spend that much for Reggie. They didn't think he was worth that much and neither did I.

Reggie wasn't all that last year. If you look at his rushing stats alone he's well below average. They talked about him at the hall of fame game and said that he was one of only three RB's who did not have a rushing gain over 20 yds. the entire season.

That one kinda surprised me,being that Reggie is supposed to be this electrifying playmaker and all.

Heath Shuler
08-13-2007, 09:57 PM
Another one. Even after I posted their own words?!

So what you guys are saying is that Bob McNair and Charlie Casserly are flat out, no-good, bald-faced liars...?

Geez, I've never seen such a bad case of: "Don't bother me with the facts, my mind is made up!" in my life.

Oh and another thing, Casserly didn't resign until after the draft. Sometime in mid-May I believe. Per the official team record, he was not fired. Capers was fired. Casserly resigned, supposedly to take a position in the NFL league office.
I can go get the press release on that too if you like.

Do you honestly believe Casserly left willingly to take a position in the league office; which by the way never materialized?

Just because it is in a press release I would not necessarily quote it as the God’s honest truth.

ObsiWan
08-13-2007, 09:58 PM
I can't blame them though for not wanting to spend that much for Reggie. They didn't think he was worth that much and neither did I.

Reggie wasn't all that last year. If you look at his rushing stats alone he's well below average. They talked about him at the hall of fame game and said that he was one of only three RB's who did not have a rushing gain over 20 yds. the entire season.

That one kinda surprised me,being that Reggie is supposed to be this electrifying playmaker and all.

That's an entirely different discussion.
And that makes total sense, especially when you consider at the time of the draft they thought that Domanick Davis (he wasn't Williams yet) was still going to play. And like ApplePie said, the possibility of Kubiak's system making a good back even more productive probably helped justify the decision McNair and Casserly were all set to make (based on money) anyway.

The1ApplePie
08-13-2007, 10:05 PM
I can't blame them though for not wanting to spend that much for Reggie. They didn't think he was worth that much and neither did I.

Reggie wasn't all that last year. If you look at his rushing stats alone he's well below average. They talked about him at the hall of fame game and said that he was one of only three RB's who did not have a rushing gain over 20 yds. the entire season.

That one kinda surprised me,being that Reggie is supposed to be this electrifying playmaker and all.

Bush's YAC sucked, but he made up for it with his catching and made all his big plays that way. His YPC was low because of getting crushed on draws instead of getting straight up the middle carries.

the wonger need food
08-13-2007, 10:07 PM
Mario got signed because he was cheaper. Simple as that.

Kubes might have contributed some to the pick with the arrogance that his system could make any RB good and he was the Jesus of QB coaches, so he could win with Carr.


You couldn't be more wrong... as usual.

the wonger need food
08-13-2007, 10:08 PM
Bush's YAC sucked, but he made up for it with his catching and made all his big plays that way. His YPC was low because of getting crushed on draws instead of getting straight up the middle carries.

Now you're a Reggie Bush apologist??? Geez... could you be any more of a troll?

The1ApplePie
08-13-2007, 10:16 PM
Now you're a Reggie Bush apologist??? Geez... could you be any more of a troll?

Different from being a Mario apologist how?

I bet you were one of those homers that loved Carr till the day he was cut, then called him a bust right?

Busa_Bill
08-13-2007, 10:18 PM
My 1st post here, and probably one of the more closely followed topics in the last couple of days. I, like many others kept a watchful eye on 90 and 91, as these guy's are the future of our DL. Wasn't expecting to see much from the kid, but certainly expected more from the 2nd year #1 overall. He seemed slow off the ball and looked like his heart wasn't in it. Yes, that is my personal observation, and I have not facts to back that up - just gut feel.

I would have hoped he would have come out with something to prove since now healthy and sporting a new playing weight. Pre-season game or not, pride should prevail over the fact this was a meaningless game. To me, that is the sign of a truly competitive spirit.

With that said, I hope MW has a year worthy our managements last years consideration. He certainly has drawn enough negative attention. I'm ready for the other kind.

Rex King
08-13-2007, 10:28 PM
Bush's YAC sucked, but he made up for it with his catching and made all his big plays that way. His YPC was low because of getting crushed on draws instead of getting straight up the middle carries.

How about the converse - he was getting a lot of draw plays because otherwise he can't go up the middle. That run the commentators were ****ing over as evidence that he "could run between the tackles" was a draw play, with a hole so big I could run through it. Once he hit the second level, he was stood up and sat back down like the wide receiver he is.

2BCF
08-14-2007, 12:47 AM
Mario got signed because he was cheaper. Simple as that.

Kubes might have contributed some to the pick with the arrogance that his system could make any RB good and he was the Jesus of QB coaches, so he could win with Carr.

Yep, that's the only reasonable excuse for pulling the trigger on MW.

I hope the guy works out for us, but so far he hasn't shown anything on the field to be considered a 1st round pick.

Leahmic223
08-14-2007, 06:35 AM
I'm happy I dropped out of this discussion.

Because when we talk about Mario here it can never be about just Mario.

It always brings up the draft and VY or Bush. Then the posters try to compare a RB or QB to a DE...

I am still willing to give him 3 years before I call him a bust or a star. I know Apple thinks I am a Mario apologist...I am not, I am just going to support the guy until he proves he isn't worth Supporting.

ObsiWan
08-14-2007, 06:48 AM
I'm happy I dropped out of this discussion.

Because when we talk about Mario here it can never be about just Mario.

It always brings up the draft and VY or Bush. Then the posters try to compare a RB or QB to a DE...

I am still willing to give him 3 years before I call him a bust or a star. I know Apple thinks I am a Mario apologist...I am not, I am just going to support the guy until he proves he isn't worth Supporting.

Ain't that the truth.

If folks would look around, they'd know its going to take Mario this year to polish his skills. Look at Jason Babin. Just now, in his third year, he's "getting it"; he's finally learning how to use his speed in combo with other moves. And he's more effective.

I suspect Mario will have the same sort of three year learning curve; and the talking heads (damn their hides) warned us this might happen. Hopefully, coach Frank Bush will shorten that learning period.

Mr. White
08-14-2007, 09:21 AM
Now you're a Reggie Bush apologist??? Geez... could you be any more of a troll?

Different from being a Mario apologist how?

I bet you were one of those homers that loved Carr till the day he was cut, then called him a bust right?

I'm I the only one that thinks this exchange is hilarious? :joker:

Kaiser Toro
08-14-2007, 09:22 AM
I watched the 1st quarter again last night and was less unimpressed with Mario the second time around. Yep he still has some work to do, but he was drawing double teams and did get into the QB's frontal area twice. Like a shotblocker in basketball, if a guy warrants a double team you can be rest assured that the QB knows where that guy is, much like he know his progressions.

Babin and Demeco looked pretty darn good. Dunta can hit, but I still feel he needs to be a better cover corner in real time. David Carr would actually be a perfect QB to play against us as we cannot defend a three step drop. I simply do not believe our CBs can cover, including Dunta.

nunusguy
08-14-2007, 09:26 AM
Look at Jason Babin. Just now, in his third year, he's "getting it"; he's finally learning how to use his speed in combo with other moves. And he's more effective.

I suspect Mario will have the same sort of three year learning curve; and the talking heads (damn their hides) warned us this might happen. Hopefully, coach Frank Bush will shorten that learning period.

Babin is now in his 4th year. That's why the patience of some of us has grown
rather thin with Jason.
So then you're saying we might get some production out of Mario 'bout 2009 ?

Texan_Bill
08-14-2007, 09:31 AM
I'm I the only one that thinks this exchange is hilarious? :joker:

In a word.... No.

Mr teX
08-14-2007, 09:58 AM
Most of what the bears did were slants so i don't know how much pressure you guys expected Mario & the d-line to get with such quick pass plays. It was also only a couple of plays in which they probably only ran base packages anyway, so how can you gather anything from that?

To add to all this, Mario caught double teams on a good portion of the little plays he was in.

It's our 1st preseason game folks, wait until the season starts.

Texan_Bill
08-14-2007, 10:01 AM
I agree with you MrTex, but the one issue I did have with Mario Saturday night was irrespective of the double teams, he didn't look violent enough to me... I don't know if it was lack of intensity or what, but.....

real
08-14-2007, 10:22 AM
It really didn't have anything to do with Mario's production with me....

I was expecting a DE with a lot of natural athletic ability and a good football player...I've seen little things here and there that show his strength, but I've yet to see the instincts, football moves nor his athletic prowess surface...He's not a relentless pursuer...He isn't explosive...And all of this after the off-season talk of a healthy foot, and weight loss...

What we are wainting and hoping on is that Mario can tremendously step his game up mentally...There's no reason he can't, but at this point he looks very average in my eyes when I watch the Texans play....

Mr teX
08-14-2007, 10:25 AM
I agree with you MrTex, but the one issue I did have with Mario Saturday night was irrespective of the double teams, he didn't look violent enough to me... I don't know if it was lack of intensity or what, but.....

i think that he could stand to be a little more animated, but i think he does good with what he does. alot of the times when fans says he "overruns" the QB it's b/c the QB has stepped up in the pocket. This is where Okoye & company are supposed to help him. Teams block from the inside out & once that pocket collapses from inside, the QB has no where to run but to the outside.

Moreover, We've got to get teams in 3rd & long situations before we can see what our pass rush is really like for the season. But as long as our secondary can't defend quick hitting routes we're going to be screwed b/c then, the opposition has no reason to have their QB drop back past 3 steps if they can just rip off 6 + with a quick slant/curl.

BigTimeTexanFan
08-14-2007, 10:25 AM
This whole Mario argument is getting ridiculous. The Patriots have been one of the best teams in the NFL this decade. In 2001 they drafted Richard Seymour with the #6 overall pick. Lets compare his stats to Marios in their rookie seasons:

Richard Seymour: 44 tackles, 25 solo, 19 Ast., 3 sacks
Mario Williams: 47 tackles, 35 solo, 12 ast., 4.5 sacks
Seymour has been to the pro bowl every year after his rookie season. Can we at least let Mario play more than 2-3 series before we decide how his career will turn out?

ObsiWan
08-14-2007, 10:32 AM
Babin is now in his 4th year. That's why the patience of some of us has grown
rather thin with Jason.
So then you're saying we might get some production out of Mario 'bout 2009 ?

If that year is the first of a string of 5-6 Pro Bowl seasons in a row, why not? Or would you cut him now and let someone else benefit from him finally learning the DE position?

Not to turn this into a DC thread, but like DC, I doubt Mario got any quality position coaching in college. He can't get away with bullrushing pro-level LTs. I think we've already established that he doesn't have that lightning first step like a Julius Peppers. Straight-line speed, yes. But not explosive quickness. Babin is faster out of his stance than Mario. That's just how it is.

And what are you calling "production"? Fantasy football stats like sacks?!

rickyb
08-14-2007, 10:33 AM
Dunta can hit, but I still feel he needs to be a better cover corner in real time. David Carr would actually be a perfect QB to play against us as we cannot defend a three step drop. I simply do not believe our CBs can cover, including Dunta.

I agree KT. For all his talk about laying the wood, I wonder if Dunta wants to play centerfield? Heck, if all he wants to do is ballhawk and lay the wood, let's try him at FS. Of course, I do not have an answer for the gaping hole left at CB, and I only less-than-half-heartedly suggest this.

Dunta: cover first. Drop the hammer second.

And coach up Benny. Fred B: Getting made to look foolish in the second half of a preseason game is not a good look, mister. The opportunity is waiting for you to seize it. Act like you want it.

Kaiser Toro
08-14-2007, 10:36 AM
And coach up Benny. Fred B: Getting made to look foolish in the second half of a preseason game is not a good look, mister. The opportunity is waiting for you to seize it. Act like you want it.

He looked exposed out there.

Hoke has the look of a great coach, but his product has consistently stunk in my opinion. I hope the secondary makes some plays this year, because they will certainly give up some.

ObsiWan
08-14-2007, 10:38 AM
This whole Mario argument is getting ridiculous. The Patriots have been one of the best teams in the NFL this decade. In 2001 they drafted Richard Seymour with the #6 overall pick. Lets compare his stats to Marios in their rookie seasons:

Richard Seymour: 44 tackles, 25 solo, 19 Ast., 3 sacks
Mario Williams: 47 tackles, 35 solo, 12 ast., 4.5 sacks
Seymour has been to the pro bowl every year after his rookie season. Can we at least let Mario play more than 2-3 series before we decide how his career will turn out?

That's all I'm trying to say.
One season while gimpy and one preseason game, and out goes the baby with the bathwater.

And if we cut/trade Mario, who takes his spot? It ain't like he's keeping someone who would be significantly better on the bench.

Mr teX
08-14-2007, 10:38 AM
I agree KT. For all his talk about laying the wood, I wonder if Dunta wants to play centerfield? Heck, if all he wants to do is ballhawk and lay the wood, let's try him at FS. Of course, I do not have an answer for the gaping hole left at CB, and I only less-than-half-heartedly suggest this.

Dunta: cover first. Drop the hammer second.

And coach up Benny. Fred B: Getting made to look foolish in the second half of a preseason game is not a good look, mister. The opportunity is waiting for you to seize it. Act like you want it.

To be truthful, noone looked like they were ready except for jacoby but it was our 1st preseason game & i suspect they will play better this 2nd time around.

MightyTExan
08-14-2007, 10:54 AM
http://blogs.chron.com/sportsupdate/archives/2007/08/marios_toughnes_1.html
After a performance that didn't even appear on the defensive stat chart, Mario Williams was nailed with questions regarding his "nastiness" after practice Monday.

Most of them, made him laugh. When asked if he was mean enough, Williams said: "I guess so. I hope so."

That didn't satisfy anyone. So then he was asked again if when he steps on the field if he hates the people lining up across from him. In short, the answer was no.

"It's not like you're out there and it's personal and you're saying, 'I hate this guy,' or, 'I hate his mom.' It's just that intensity that is in the game," Williams said.

- Megan Manfull



No fire in the belly.

real
08-14-2007, 10:57 AM
This whole Mario argument is getting ridiculous. The Patriots have been one of the best teams in the NFL this decade. In 2001 they drafted Richard Seymour with the #6 overall pick. Lets compare his stats to Marios in their rookie seasons:

Richard Seymour: 44 tackles, 25 solo, 19 Ast., 3 sacks
Mario Williams: 47 tackles, 35 solo, 12 ast., 4.5 sacks
Seymour has been to the pro bowl every year after his rookie season. Can we at least let Mario play more than 2-3 series before we decide how his career will turn out?

Richard Seymour is basically a DT...


Not really a good comparison if you're trying to make Mario look good...

Kaiser Toro
08-14-2007, 11:03 AM
http://blogs.chron.com/sportsupdate/archives/2007/08/marios_toughnes_1.html
After a performance that didn't even appear on the defensive stat chart, Mario Williams was nailed with questions regarding his "nastiness" after practice Monday.

Most of them, made him laugh. When asked if he was mean enough, Williams said: "I guess so. I hope so."

That didn't satisfy anyone. So then he was asked again if when he steps on the field if he hates the people lining up across from him. In short, the answer was no.

"It's not like you're out there and it's personal and you're saying, 'I hate this guy,' or, 'I hate his mom.' It's just that intensity that is in the game," Williams said.

- Megan Manfull



No fire in the belly.

http://www.cbc.ca/cp/football/070813/f081313A.html

"We need guys to step up and be more vocal and that doesn't mean coming out here and talking (to the media). Not that I have a problem with that, that's not what that means," Peppers said. "Maybe pulling the young guys to the side and encouraging them to watch a little more film. I think that's being a leader."

If he chose to become vocal, the six-foot-seven, 283-pound Peppers would have the credentials to back up his words. The No. 2 overall pick in the 2002 draft, the Bailey, N.C., native is one of the game's most dominant defensive ends.

His 53 ˝ sacks are a team record. His freakish athletic ability - he also played basketball at North Carolina - allows him to do things other defensive linemen can't.

Defensive end Mike Rucker, Peppers' teammate for his five NFL seasons, said Peppers occasionally jokes around with teammates but prefers to stay in the background.

"I just think he's more reserved and doesn't necessarily want to be that guy that's always out front," Rucker said. "A lot of times in the professional atmosphere you see guys that want the limelight, that want the cameras, want the microphones. He's not that guy. He doesn't need all of that to make him tick."

While he was cordial with reporters Monday, Peppers also took issue with the assumption a leader has to be loud.

"We had guys who talked who really didn't back it up," Peppers said. "I would rather have my actions speak for me."

Julius Peppers, no fire in his belly. :rolleyes:

the wonger need food
08-14-2007, 11:09 AM
I bet you were one of those homers that loved Carr till the day he was cut, then called him a bust right?


Now that is funny!!! You obviously haven't been around very long.

Mr teX
08-14-2007, 11:15 AM
http://www.cbc.ca/cp/football/070813/f081313A.html



Julius Peppers, no fire in his belly. :rolleyes:

Exactly, & i think that the aptly labeled "gentle warrior" Reggie White would disagree with him as well.

real
08-14-2007, 11:16 AM
http://www.cbc.ca/cp/football/070813/f081313A.html



Julius Peppers, no fire in his belly. :rolleyes:



I don't get how those articles are related...

One is talking about a guy being vocal, and the other is talking about Mario's mental approach to the competition...

The Pepper's article doesn't even hint at what kind of demeanor the guy plays with, it just talks about how he likes to stay out of the limelight...

BigTimeTexanFan
08-14-2007, 11:19 AM
Richard Seymour is basically a DT...


Not really a good comparison if you're trying to make Mario look good...
They play a lot of 4-3 too. Anyway, what about someone who is bound for the HOF. Michael Strahan in his 1st season (1993) played in 9 games and racked up an astounding 3 tackles and 1 sack (he was injured alot). 1994 he had 39 tackles and 4.5 sacks in 15 games started. 1995 58 tackles and 7.5 sacks in 16 games. It took him nearly 4 years to develop into what he is known for. All I'm trying to say is some players develop faster than others (julius Peppers). I know he was drafted #1, but I think our expectations were a little high for him in his first year. There is A LOT of negativity after just one rookie season and 2-3 series of a preseason game. It's almost as if we are expecting failure. I'm excited to see how the work in the offseason translates to on the field.

real
08-14-2007, 11:20 AM
Exactly, & i think that the aptly labeled "gentle warrior" Reggie White would disagree with him as well.

Reggie White played with a nasty demeanor as well...

Reggie White was elected to a record 13 straight Pro Bowls, was Defensive Player of the Year twice, and was named to the NFL’s 75th Anniversary Team. His 198 sacks are second all time and his ferocious play on the field belie a gentle and dignified off-the-field demeanor.

http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/Shrubadelica

Everything I've ever heard or seen about Reggie White said he played with a nasty demeanor, but was loving off of the field...I think I may have even heard him say it out of his own mouth...

real
08-14-2007, 11:25 AM
They play a lot of 4-3 too. Anyway, what about someone who is bound for the HOF. Michael Strahan in his 1st season (1993) played in 9 games and racked up an astounding 3 tackles and 1 sack (he was injured alot). 1994 he had 39 tackles and 4.5 sacks in 15 games started. 1995 58 tackles and 7.5 sacks in 16 games. It took him nearly 4 years to develop into what he is known for. All I'm trying to say is some players develop faster than others (julius Peppers). I know he was drafted #1, but I think our expectations were a little high for him in his first year. There is A LOT of negativity after just one rookie season and 2-3 series of a preseason game. It's almost as if we are expecting failure. I'm excited to see how the work in the offseason translates to on the field.


Sure, Well I guess you're right....

I guess we should sit around and wait for Mario to turn into Strahan...

Maybe that ballin' move wasn't out of character afteralll...

Mr teX
08-14-2007, 11:27 AM
Reggie White played with a nasty demeanor as well...



http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/Shrubadelica

Everything I've ever heard or seen about Reggie White said he played with a nasty demeanor, but was loving off of the field...I think I may have even heard him say it out of his own mouth...

& in watching Mario, there is nothing that suggests to me that he doesn't play "ferocious" or with a nasty streak. It's probably closer to what you've been saying as far as his mental game. he's still 1 of the youngest guys to be drafted & playing in the league.

Not you, but people confusing his production with a lack of fire i can't help but shake my head....:ok:

Rex King
08-14-2007, 11:31 AM
They play a lot of 4-3 too. Anyway, what about someone who is bound for the HOF. Michael Strahan in his 1st season (1993) played in 9 games and racked up an astounding 3 tackles and 1 sack (he was injured alot). 1994 he had 39 tackles and 4.5 sacks in 15 games started. 1995 58 tackles and 7.5 sacks in 16 games. It took him nearly 4 years to develop into what he is known for. All I'm trying to say is some players develop faster than others (julius Peppers). I know he was drafted #1, but I think our expectations were a little high for him in his first year. There is A LOT of negativity after just one rookie season and 2-3 series of a preseason game. It's almost as if we are expecting failure. I'm excited to see how the work in the offseason translates to on the field.

Nah, I'm still giving him the benefit of the doubt. As I said earlier, I think he had a decent game. I was thinking the tentativeness of learning a new defense, different positions, and the injury was holding him back last year. With the weight loss and reported increased speed, I'm just disappointed that I didn't see him explode off the line.

real
08-14-2007, 11:39 AM
& in watching Mario, there is nothing that suggests to me that he doesn't play "ferocious" or with a nasty streak. It's probably closer to what you've been saying as far as his mental game. he's still 1 of the youngest guys to be drafted & playing in the league.

Not you, but people confusing his production with a lack of fire i can't help but shake my head....:ok:

I honestly, I haven't seen the explosion and attitude out of Mario that I'd like to have seen...

My coach always told me that if you were going to make a mistake, do it going 100 mph...

I don't believe you have to be a ferocious player to be successful, but I do believe it helps...I don't know too many nice guys on the defensive side of the ball who are successful...

But y'all are right...It was just one pre-season game and hopefully he plays with more energy against the Cards...

BigTimeTexanFan
08-14-2007, 11:39 AM
Sure, Well I guess you're right....

I guess we should sit around and wait for Mario to turn into Strahan...

Maybe that ballin' move wasn't out of character afteralll...
What do you mean sit around? He has only played one season in which he was slowed by a foot injury. At this point I don't know whether or not he will be a pro bowl type player or a bust or somewhere in between, but I would like to see how he does this year before I declare him a failure. But you know maybe you're right. A one year sample is good enough to conclude what type of player he is:sarcasm:

MightyTExan
08-14-2007, 11:45 AM
I don't get how those articles are related...

One is talking about a guy being vocal, and the other is talking about Mario's mental approach to the competition...

The Pepper's article doesn't even hint at what kind of demeanor the guy plays with, it just talks about how he likes to stay out of the limelight...

Thank you

real
08-14-2007, 11:46 AM
What do you mean sit around? He has only played one season in which he was slowed by a foot injury. At this point I don't know whether or not he will be a pro bowl type player or a bust or somewhere in between, but I would like to see how he does this year before I declare him a failure. But you know maybe you're right. A one year sample is good enough to conclude what type of player he is:sarcasm:

Hi, I'm a human. I'm not perfect. I tend to make judgements. These judgements are not always correct.

Sue me for being non-impressed with Mario's lack of burst, lack of energy, lack of plays made, and lack of technique...

P.S. Strahan was chosen 40th overall...For him to have started out slowly coming from TSU was expected...

Mario was chosen #1 overall...I expect him to atleast play like a first rounder...

Double Barrel
08-14-2007, 11:51 AM
On the other hand, does it make sense to think that a former offensive coordinator would pick a DE over a Heisman-caliber RB?

The late, great Bill Walsh - THE offensive minded coach - liked to pick defensive players in early rounds.

Obviously I'm not saying that Kubiak is Bill Walsh, but he does come from the same family coaching tree. Shanahan also likes to pick RBs later in the draft, which Denver has clearly shown to be a positive over the years.

HoustonFrog
08-14-2007, 12:03 PM
http://blogs.chron.com/sportsupdate/archives/2007/08/marios_toughnes_1.html
After a performance that didn't even appear on the defensive stat chart, Mario Williams was nailed with questions regarding his "nastiness" after practice Monday.

Most of them, made him laugh. When asked if he was mean enough, Williams said: "I guess so. I hope so."

That didn't satisfy anyone. So then he was asked again if when he steps on the field if he hates the people lining up across from him. In short, the answer was no.

"It's not like you're out there and it's personal and you're saying, 'I hate this guy,' or, 'I hate his mom.' It's just that intensity that is in the game," Williams said.

- Megan Manfull



No fire in the belly.

This had me confused

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/5051526.html

Williams said he wished he had taken advantage of some opportunities he saw early in the game to make plays.

"It was just so early I didn't want to jump the gun, but then there was a limited amount of snaps and I should have just gone ahead and taken advantage of it because I wasn't in there that long," Williams said.

So he avoided making plays?I'm not making a big deal out of nothing but someone explain. This thread is long so sorry if I missed it earlier.

Mr teX
08-14-2007, 12:09 PM
Like TD's for offensive players, sacks is the sexy stat for D-linemen so i guess if he's not making these, some people lose focus of the real task at hand . I'm more interested in developing Mario as a complete football player & not just a sack artist.

HoustonFrog
08-14-2007, 12:28 PM
Like TD's for offensive players, sacks is the sexy stat for D-linemen so i guess if he's not making these, some people lose focus of the real task at hand . I'm more interested in developing Mario as a complete football player & not just a sack artist.

I'm just still wondering what the quote above means. I see that he could be improving in other ways but why say you could have tried to make plays but didn't.

The Pencil Neck
08-14-2007, 01:42 PM
I'm just still wondering what the quote above means. I see that he could be improving in other ways but why say you could have tried to make plays but didn't.

I read it that he was saying that he was setting the guy up for moves like he would if he were going to play a full game and because of that, didn't start trying to take advantage of those "setups".

IOW... he was pacing himself. :texflag: