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Wolf
08-11-2007, 08:41 PM
I can't see the game

who suprised you?
how was the OL blocking?

from what i read, D-line didn't get much pressure

how was the secondary looking?

Spike
08-11-2007, 08:47 PM
Just some random thoughts on the first half of the preseason:

(1) Special Teams look pretty good, which was to be expected with the increased depth and competition accross the board. Brown has hit four close field goals and his kick-offs look good. We seem to be getting to the ball pretty well. Our return game will be good with Mathis and Jacoby Jones.
(2) QBs - We didn't see much of Matt, but he looked fine. I think he looked good under pressure and seemed to get the ball off pretty quick. I think his best play was a quick throw to Walter (which was dropped) - Matt made just enough of a move to buy some time, may the right read and a great throw. Sage looks solid.
(3) OL - Good news was that I haven't seen a sack. The first string OL wasn't asked to do too much pass blocking wise, but there still seemed to be a good amount of pressure. IMO opinion, the run blocking didn't look good at all. Second string OL got off to a slow start, but we took some shots down the field late in the second half...and had the time to do it, which is positive.
(4) RB/ TE - Nothing really stood out to me...did anyone else pick up on anything?
(5) WR - Andre is Andre. With limited opportunities, Walter looked unimpressive, dropping a ball for a first down that he should have had. I will admit that I was not a fan of the Jacoby pick, but he is the one player that stood out to me in the first half. The NFL doesn't look too big for him, I am impressed by his size and speed, he is a guy who looks to make plays, had a couple of nice grabs for first downs, looked solid catching punts and had one nice return. That being said, he still looks a little raw, he made an ill advised attempt on a return and let a ball hit off his pads. I was wrong...I think he can definitely make an impact this year. The guy is athletic and seems to be getting open.
(6) DL - I was frustrated by the first string. I was hoping to see more. We seemed to get a little pressure on the left side, but nothing much from Mario. Does anyone else see something, is he getting doubled? It may be in my head, I just don't see the effort you would hope to see.
(7) LB - Looks solid. Dameco picked up where he left off.
(8) DBs - First string didn't look too bad. We had a pick. Solid tackling. The second string had one bad series and Bennett got burned on a TD.

real
08-11-2007, 08:48 PM
My impression: We're going to sneak up on a lot of teams this year...We are noticeably more talented

Thorn
08-11-2007, 08:52 PM
My impression: We're going to sneak up on a lot of teams this year...We are noticeably more talented

that the Texans are more talented is not a question. I agree. Can we go 8-8 this year, or better?

Spike
08-11-2007, 08:56 PM
that the Texans are more talented is not a question. I agree. Can we go 8-8 this year, or better?


I think we are a better team, but there is no way to determine how that is going to work out in the context of an NFL season. Can we go 8-8...sure. Could we be a better team and have the same record, but just lose a couple of close ones...sure.

real
08-11-2007, 09:02 PM
I think we easily go 8-8

JMO

powerfuldragon
08-11-2007, 10:12 PM
the bears did go to the superbowl.

Hookem Horns
08-11-2007, 10:30 PM
Biggest Positive - Offensive line play. The starters protected well and did a decent job on running plays. Of course having a competent QB back there goes a long way in making this happen. Considering this was against the best defense in the NFL last season I am impressed.

Biggest Negative - Defensive line play. Considering how many high draft picks we have spent (wasted), it's beyond ridiculous that our D line can't pressure anyone or make a decent stop. I don't know if it's just me, but I haven't even seen a flash out of Mario.

TheIronDuke
08-11-2007, 10:34 PM
I can't see the game

who suprised you?
how was the OL blocking?

from what i read, D-line didn't get much pressure

how was the secondary looking?

MW surprised me from his lack of explosiveness, again.

OL was the same but in the 1st quarter we seemed to have had a QB who can actually feel the pressure. I can't believe how Schaub reacted in that situation vs. some other QB who would've been sacked.

Secondary on the first string is same ol' same ol'. Robinson hits so hard, I would love to have him at SS.

Overall, it's the first preseason game and I put no stock in any preseason games in any sport. I'm still worried about MW and hope that he develops soon.

Hagar
08-11-2007, 10:36 PM
While he didn't get a lot done, Schuab look pretty good tonight. He dropped back quickly, made his read and thew the ball on time. Granted he misfired on a couple of plays but all in all, he had good pocket presence and looked like an efficient QB. Its too early to tell if he will be any good or if he was worth two second round picks, but all in all not a bad start.

beerlover
08-11-2007, 10:39 PM
Biggest Positive - Offensive line play. The starters protected well and did a decent job on running plays. Of course having a competent QB back there goes a long way in making this happen. Considering this was against the best defense in the NFL last season I am impressed.

Biggest Negative - Defensive line play. Considering how many high draft picks we have spent (wasted), it's beyond ridiculous that our D line can't pressure anyone or make a decent stop. I don't know if it's just me, but I haven't even seen a flash out of Mario.

I don't know if its just me but doesnt Mario kinda of remind you of a 3-4 OLB in the mold of a Shawn Merriman or DeMarcus Ware? I wonder if this scheme is the right fit for him or not, what a horrible thought :gun:

rollinstone18
08-11-2007, 11:08 PM
Okoye got pushed around.
Kalu got in the backfield a few times and was always around the ball.
Sage looked good.
Mathis and Jacoby really make me excited about our special teams.
I was impressed how Schaub was under pressure.
Walter had a gimme pass stripped from him on 3rd down.
Hutchins>C.C.

The1ApplePie
08-12-2007, 02:36 AM
Schaub appears to have a better arm and a better head under preasure than Carr.

But, I did notice how much slower Schaub was than Carr (or Sage). I figure we won't see as many bootlegs this year.

Koolaid Time
08-12-2007, 08:09 AM
Biggest Negative - Defensive line play. Considering how many high draft picks we have spent (wasted), it's beyond ridiculous that our D line can't pressure anyone or make a decent stop. I don't know if it's just me, but I haven't even seen a flash out of Mario.

The Defense looked very passive to me. We need more blitzing.

junior
08-12-2007, 12:02 PM
schaub looked ok made a couple of good passes but no mention of the missed reciever wide open for the td. he seemed to look pretty good under pressure. that can be decieving only because most qb get happy feet uasually dont start with them, its up to the OL whether he gets those. whoever said he has a better arm than carr dont let your despise for carr make you lie, you know he doesnt. but this offense doesnt require it so its not that big a deal. schaub should look better than carr the first half of the season, its the second half when a lot of tape will be available for teams to study and if he stays upright he should be fine the second half if he is on his back a lot then we shall see how he handles it.

with mathis and jones pushing each other our special teams should be exactly that , special.

our defense looked ok offenses still going right at robinson even though he is our second best LB, its not good to have a LB at the corner he needs to improve his cover skills. okoye and williams might open up a lot of oppurtunities for other to get pressure our DL looks to be improved.

Pantherstang84
08-12-2007, 12:46 PM
Schaub appears to have a better arm and a better head under preasure than Carr.

But, I did notice how much slower Schaub was than Carr (or Sage). I figure we won't see as many bootlegs this year.
I dunno. He looked pretty solid on that waggle play. Now. Will he be asked to play RB from the QB position? Definitely not. But he has enough. IMO

HotRodsHair
08-12-2007, 12:47 PM
The special teams play was very impressive. 4/4 on FG's. Good kickoffs. Strong coverage on punts and kickoffs. Very good punting. (By both punters, what a battle!) And can you believe the return yardage? If the ST's play like that this team will be very solid this year.

Orr and Babin were the most disruptive DL. (did I just say that out loud?)

Shaub and Rosenfels both looked pretty poised and in command of the offense. Van Pelt completely changed the tone of play with his inability to even get the ball cleanly to a WR cutting across the field ten yards out. I wish we could have seen Zambriski.(sp?)

LB's are solid, safeties were hitting. Still weak at the other corner.

Jacoby Jones really played well. Hopefully he continues to build on that performance.

The tight ends played very well.

I'm concerned about a lack of speed at the RB position. Is it just me or did our tailbacks lose a step?

Fiddy
08-12-2007, 01:09 PM
I watched the game when I got home from work at 3 a.m. so I really didnt get a chance to rewind on the DVR and look more closely but initial impressions:

1) Okoye plays WAY too high. He might as well not even go into his 3-point stance and just stand up before a play.
2) If Walter wants to be the number 2 WR, he needs to hold on to balls on 3rd down when he has 2 hands on them.
3) Just like Hook'em, the D-line was disappointing
4) Loving Schaub so far. Although that pass of his back-foot is dangerous, it shows that he isn't afraid to take risks and get hurt. Also shows that Schaub does have some nice arm strength. Schaub also stood in the pocket when it collapsed around him instead of taking a dash towards the sideline and crawling up on the turf.

utahmark
08-12-2007, 01:13 PM
The Defense looked very passive to me. We need more blitzing.


with 4 number one's on our d-line we should get some pressure on the qb without blitzing.

ObsiWan
08-12-2007, 02:20 PM
The special teams play was very impressive. 4/4 on FG's. Good kickoffs. Strong coverage on punts and kickoffs. Very good punting. (By both punters, what a battle!) And can you believe the return yardage? If the ST's play like that this team will be very solid this year.

Orr and Babin were the most disruptive DL. (did I just say that out loud?)

Shaub and Rosenfels both looked pretty poised and in command of the offense. Van Pelt completely changed the tone of play with his inability to even get the ball cleanly to a WR cutting across the field ten yards out. I wish we could have seen Zambriski.(sp?)

LB's are solid, safeties were hitting. Still weak at the other corner.

Jacoby Jones really played well. Hopefully he continues to build on that performance.

The tight ends played very well.

I'm concerned about a lack of speed at the RB position. Is it just me or did our tailbacks lose a step?

What bothered me about our RBs is few of them seemed to follow their lead FBs. Leach led Green outside only to have Green cut inside - twice. Same with Gado and Lundy. Dayne tried to but was, as always, a step slow. Seems to me those guys "left some yds on the field".

Breakdown of the game film should correct that issue though.

Vinny
08-12-2007, 02:30 PM
I don't know if its just me but doesnt Mario kinda of remind you of a 3-4 OLB in the mold of a Shawn Merriman or DeMarcus Ware? I wonder if this scheme is the right fit for him or not, what a horrible thought :gun:

lord no on the Merriman or Ware comparison...he's fast but not that quick. While Mario is very fast, he doesn't have an explosive first step like those guys (the reason he really doesn't look like an elite edge rusher). Frankly Mario reminds me of a 3-4 Tackle or a two gap 4-3 tackle. Long term, the best player to play tackle right beside the undersized Okoye at the end of the day may be Mario. It sucks to think we may have taken a DT with our first overall in a year of superstuds.

pappy
08-12-2007, 03:15 PM
My first post so i'll jump in with both feet :splits:
First i will note the positives i saw , The replacement guards used (both hogden and brissel and then studdard ) played well , The receivers j jones , mathas and davis were excellent , and the tight ends all played well to . But to me the best thing i saw was that the plays did not look telegraphed or predictable so the chicago defense never could load up . Special teams were great except for stanly .
Now the bad , the left tackle (black) we played did not do well . The quarterbacks including schaub were not on target with any passes thrown to receivers going east-west (crossing patterns) . Williams is clearly not happy about moving to the hot side of the defensive line . He allowed himself to be caught out of position on a benson rush and the result was a train wreck when demeco stopped him from going all the way . Walters is not a number 2 receiver as far as im concerned , now i understand Kubs wanting him there for his size but come on he not only dropped one (thrown high on a crossing pattern) but when he found himself wide open he hesitated and failed to reach the appointed corner route .
I wanted to drop by the blue crew but the rain stopped me , sorry .

Pantherstang84
08-12-2007, 03:18 PM
My first post so i'll jump in with both feet :splits:
First i will note the positives i saw , The replacement guards used (both hogden and brissel and then studdard ) played well , The receivers j jones , mathas and davis were excellent , and the tight ends all played well to . But to me the best thing i saw was that the plays did not look telegraphed or predictable so the chicago defense never could load up . Special teams were great except for stanly .
Now the bad , the left tackle (black) we played did not do well . The quarterbacks including schaub were not on target with any passes thrown to receivers going east-west (crossing patterns) . Williams is clearly not happy about moving to the hot side of the defensive line . He allowed himself to be caught out of position on a benson rush and the result was a train wreck when demeco stopped him from going all the way . Walters is not a number 2 receiver as far as im concerned , now i understand Kubs wanting him there for his size but come on he not only dropped one (thrown high on a crossing pattern) but when he found himself wide open he hesitated and failed to reach the appointed corner route .
I wanted to drop by the blue crew but the rain stopped me , sorry .

Welcome aboard. :fans:

Excellent observations by the way.

real
08-12-2007, 04:47 PM
I don't know if its just me but doesnt Mario kinda of remind you of a 3-4 OLB in the mold of a Shawn Merriman or DeMarcus Ware? I wonder if this scheme is the right fit for him or not, what a horrible thought :gun:

Mario? 3-4 OLB?

Surely you kid...

powerfuldragon
08-12-2007, 04:54 PM
I don't know if its just me but doesnt Mario kinda of remind you of a 3-4 OLB in the mold of a Shawn Merriman or DeMarcus Ware? I wonder if this scheme is the right fit for him or not, what a horrible thought :gun:

you are dom capers and i claim my $5

Runner
08-12-2007, 08:50 PM
I was watching the game at BW3 because I wanted to watch another game at the same time, so I didn't get to concentrate as much as I would have liked.

As far as the o-line goes, the up the middle pressure on Schaub the first series (Walter drop) was disappointing in that it appeared to be more of the same. I know Schaub "made the line look better", but I'd prefer he not have to throw a lot of passes with defenders hanging on him.

However, in the second series I think there were three "U" shaped pockets in a row. That looked pretty good.

Not a good ratio, but then they didn't play very long and it was the first pre-season game. If they can get that ratio up a little - OK, a lot - the offense might pick up a little.

Pantherstang84
08-12-2007, 09:23 PM
I was watching the game at BW3 because I wanted to watch another game at the same time, so I didn't get to concentrate as much as I would have liked.

As far as the o-line goes, the up the middle pressure on Schaub the first series (Walter drop) was disappointing in that it appeared to be more of the same. I know Schaub "made the line look better", but I'd prefer he not have to throw a lot of passes with defenders hanging on him.

However, in the second series I think there were three "U" shaped pockets in a row. That looked pretty good.

Not a good ratio, but then they didn't play very long and it was the first pre-season game. If they can get that ratio up a little - OK, a lot - the offense might pick up a little.


Well. The Bears were bringing everything including the kitchen sink on that play. They blitzed 3 from the right side.

What encouraged me was Schaub made them pay for it (if only Walter could have held on). They didn't bring that crap again on the next possession.

real
08-12-2007, 09:26 PM
I was watching the game at BW3 because I wanted to watch another game at the same time, so I didn't get to concentrate as much as I would have liked.

As far as the o-line goes, the up the middle pressure on Schaub the first series (Walter drop) was disappointing in that it appeared to be more of the same. I know Schaub "made the line look better", but I'd prefer he not have to throw a lot of passes with defenders hanging on him.

However, in the second series I think there were three "U" shaped pockets in a row. That looked pretty good.

Not a good ratio, but then they didn't play very long and it was the first pre-season game. If they can get that ratio up a little - OK, a lot - the offense might pick up a little.

The offense looked a helluvalot better without HBNWW taking snaps...

We looked more fluid, and we actually had a rythm....HBNWW's jitter-bug like approach is gone and we have a QB that can make plays under pressure....

I know no one wants to have to see Schaub constantly throw with people in his face, but doesn't it feel good to finally have a QB who can make plays while under pressure rather than a QB who gets nervous ? Actually two QB's who can, because Sage made some good throws with people in his face as well...

Great athletes on the defensive side of the ball; great pass rushers--everybody's got em....QB's will be pressured;tis the nature of the NFL...

real
08-12-2007, 09:28 PM
Well. The Bears were bringing everything including the kitchen sink on that play. They blitzed 3 from the right side.

What encouraged me was Schaub made them pay for it (if only Walter could have held on). They didn't bring that crap again on the next possession.

Exactly...Sometimes teams bring more than you can block...

The key is having a QB who can make pre-snap reads, recognize defenses and then have the composure to make 'em pay for it....

We have one of those now...

Honoring Earl 34
08-12-2007, 09:39 PM
They have Schaub's plays here .

http://www.houstontexans.com/index.asp

HJam72
08-12-2007, 09:44 PM
Exactly...Sometimes teams bring more than you can block...

The key is having a QB who can make pre-snap reads, recognize defenses and then have the composure to make 'em pay for it....

We have one of those now...

Yeah, Rosenfels, lol. :)

I'm just kidding. I couldn't resist.

Pantherstang84
08-12-2007, 10:14 PM
Well. The Bears were bringing everything including the kitchen sink on that play. They blitzed 3 from the right side.

What encouraged me was Schaub made them pay for it (if only Walter could have held on). They didn't bring that crap again on the next possession.

I stand corrected. I just reviewed the play again. They brought 2 from the right. The one that got in Schaub's face came in on a delayed blitz from the middle after all of the blockers were already committed. Still the result was the same.

A very catchable ball under pressure.

We will know more after our date with the Cowgirls, but it looks to me like our QB problem is taken care of.

The bonus?

We upgraded our entire offensive line without adding a single player.

beerlover
08-13-2007, 10:15 AM
lord no on the Merriman or Ware comparison...he's fast but not that quick. While Mario is very fast, he doesn't have an explosive first step like those guys (the reason he really doesn't look like an elite edge rusher). Frankly Mario reminds me of a 3-4 Tackle or a two gap 4-3 tackle. Long term, the best player to play tackle right beside the undersized Okoye at the end of the day may be Mario. It sucks to think we may have taken a DT with our first overall in a year of superstuds.

Mario from a physical standpoint has undergone one hell of a conditioning, weight loss program, he looks far more explosive to me than last season then he had sub 4.66 forty speed on the edge (Meriiman was 4.62 & Ware was 4.59). Mario has shed alot of that baby fat & should be even quicker now placing him in a truely elite class. his weight cannot be listed correctly seems closer to 280 +/- 5 lbs Merriman is around 275 & Ware 260 so yeh he does carry a bigger frame which will impact his explosiveness but he likes to stay on the outside. I'm not saying he is afraid of contact its more that he feels he can utilize his natural talent, size & speed working the tackle out & overpowering the TE.

This franchise was built around the 3-4 even though the base of that D-Line has been replaced as Texan fans we do know it well. so what if they changed back to a 3-4 with Mario on one end & Okoye @ the other with Maddox playing NT. on pass rusing plays you bring in Weaver & flip Mario to OLB & turn him loose. you still have Travis, Kalu & others inside not to mention Babin could be used @ OLB. one way or another they have to create more pressure on the QB I'm just suggesting a contrarian veiwpoint that has enough merrit to spawn a dicussion :shades:

HOU-TEX
08-13-2007, 10:28 AM
I stand corrected. I just reviewed the play again. They brought 2 from the right. The one that got in Schaub's face came in on a delayed blitz from the middle after all of the blockers were already committed. Still the result was the same.


They did overload our leftside on a blitz. The one thing that stood out to me was that McKinney blocked down and doubled with Flanigan, Green picked up one blitzer which left the blitzing DB a wide open shot. I'm not going to point fingers due to not knowing what the call was on the Oline, but why would McKinney double with the center on that play? Here's a pic courtesy by BullPenPhotos.

http://www.texansbullpen.com/07photogallery/Preseason/2007-08-11-Bears-Texans/1stQuarter/DSC_0205.JPG

The Pencil Neck
08-13-2007, 10:37 AM
They did overload our leftside on a blitz. The one thing that stood out to me was that McKinney blocked down and doubled with Flanigan, Green picked up one blitzer which left the blitzing DB a wide open shot. I'm not going to point fingers due to not knowing what the call was on the Oline, but why would McKinney double with the center on that play? Here's a pic courtesy by BullPenPhotos.


If it was a blown assignment on McKinney, wouldn't Green have gone after the outside blitzer and left the inside blitzer to McKinney?

I remember last year someone got really angry that the other team was blitzing in the first or second preseason game. Was it the Colts that were ticked off last year? Anyway, the Bears were blitzing all night last night. We were playing vanilla, iirc, although we might have started blitzing later on. Were we expecting the Bears to blitz? Had we even gone over specific blitz pickups in practice?

Runner
08-13-2007, 05:03 PM
They did overload our leftside on a blitz. The one thing that stood out to me was that McKinney blocked down and doubled with Flanigan, Green picked up one blitzer which left the blitzing DB a wide open shot. I'm not going to point fingers due to not knowing what the call was on the Oline, but why would McKinney double with the center on that play? Here's a pic courtesy by BullPenPhotos.



Good info - I thought I saw a double team while a blitzer came free, but I couldn't rewind it or concentrate much. I've got the game DVR'd but I really can't get too enthused about a pre-season game.

real
08-13-2007, 05:16 PM
They did overload our leftside on a blitz. The one thing that stood out to me was that McKinney blocked down and doubled with Flanigan, Green picked up one blitzer which left the blitzing DB a wide open shot. I'm not going to point fingers due to not knowing what the call was on the Oline, but why would McKinney double with the center on that play? Here's a pic courtesy by BullPenPhotos.



Was not a missed assignment by anyone....

There is a MLB sitting right in the middle...

If that MLB blitzes, McKinney would come off of him and pick him up...If McKinney assumed that the MLB wasn't going to blitz and picked up the guy Green is blocking, and let Green get the DB, that MLB could have run right up the middle untouched....Heck, he may not have even been on a called blitz, but saw that he was going to have a free shot right up the middle, and he may have come...

Most successful blocking schemes are designed to take care of the first threat first...That's why McKinney is helping on the down linemen with his eyes on the Mike...The MLB has a shorter path to the QB than that DB...So in otherwords you want to focus on the guys who will get to the QB first...

Sometimes guys are going to come in untouched, but it's the QB's job to recognize what defender is capable of coming in untouched...For instane...He knew that Mckinney and Flannagan had the down lineman and the MLB...He knew Green was going to pick up first inside threat....Pre-snap he needs to know that if that DB comes he will need to go to his hot route or whatever route he thinks will be open...

Don't know if what I wrote is understandable, but the bottom line is that it doesn't look like they made a mistake on that play to me...Guys are going to come in unblocked sometimes, but the key is to try and have that guy be the further of the blitzers from the QB...It's the QB's job to realize guys may come free and get the ball out quickly and make the defense pay for briniging the extra heat...When the QB does that the defense will have no choice but to lay off ....

Vinny
08-13-2007, 05:27 PM
Was not a missed assignment by anyone....

There is a MLB sitting right in the middle...

If that MLB blitzes, McKinney would come off of him and pick him up...If McKinney assumed that the MLB wasn't going to blitz and picked up the LB and let Green get the DB, that MLB could have run right up the middle untouched....Heck, he may not have even been on a called blitz, but saw that he was going to have a free shot right up the middle, and he may have come...

Most successful blocking schemes are designed to take care of the first threat first...That's why McKinney is helping on the down linemen with his eyes on the Mike...The MLB has a shorter path to the QB than that DB...So in otherwords you want to focus on the guys who will get to the QB first...

Sometimes guys are going to come in untouched, but it's the QB's job to recognize what defender is capable of coming in untouched...For instane...He knew that Mckinney and Flannagan had the down lineman and the MLB...He knew Green was going to pick up first inside threat....Pre-snap he needs to know that if that DB comes he will need to go to his hot route or whatever route he thinks will be open...

Don't know if what I wrote is understandable, but the bottom line is that it doesn't look like they made a mistake on that play to me...Guys are going to come in unblocked sometimes, but the key is to try and have that guy be the further of the blitzers from the QB...It's the QB's job to realize guys may come free and get the ball out quickly and make the defense pay for briniging the extra heat...When the QB does that the defense will have no choice but to lay off ....
looked like a bit of a delay...McKinney locked in on one guy, the defender steamrolled in and McKinney never saw him....looked like a McKinney mistake to me

real
08-13-2007, 05:32 PM
looked like a bit of a delay...McKinney locked in on one guy, the defender steamrolled in and McKinney never saw him....looked like a McKinney mistake to me

If that were the case Green would have picked up the DB.

Just from looking at the play, I really can't see this being the case...

But who are you saying came on a delayed blitz ? Are you saying McKinney should have looped around to get that DB ?

Vinny
08-13-2007, 05:35 PM
If that were the case Green would have picked up the DB.

I can't see that being the case...

But who are you saying came on a delated blitz ? Are you saying McKinney should have looped around to get that DB ?I don't remember...I just remember commenting on it in the game thread...it was a clear untouched sprint to the QB from the gap between McKinney and the LT. McKinney locked into the tackle that was being blocked already by the center....and the LT was engaged. Looked like a McKinney issue to me.

I don't have it taped...and it's not that big a deal, but I read your post and I just don't see it as you explained it at all....I've been wrong before though.

:doot:

real
08-13-2007, 05:45 PM
I don't remember...I just remember commenting on it in the game thread...it was a clear untouched sprint to the QB from the gap between McKinney and the LT. McKinney locked into the tackle that was being blocked already by the center....and the LT was engaged. Looked like a McKinney issue to me.

I don't have it taped...and it's not that big a deal, but I read your post and I just don't see it as you explained it at all....I've been wrong before though.

:doot:

There are numerous reasons why I think the play happened how I said it did, but reason number one being that McKinneyis almost turned completely to the right...

I can't see an NFL vet like McKinney fully commiting to a totally opposite direction than where his responsibilities lie...

I've been in blocking schemes like this and it's really difficult to understand...It's really funky how they do blitz pick ups because most teams don't want their runningbacks picking up down linemen, and two, sometimes the defense just brings more than you can block...Since you can never be sure of who is or isn't coming, you have to worry about 1st threat...

If that MLB is blitzing and McKinney isn't in position to pick him up, he's going to hit Schaub dead in the mouth before he finishes his drop back...If the MLB does come and the other blitzer who came free doesn't we're in perfect position to pick up the blitz, and that would have really hurt the defense...

But you're right, it's not that big a deal...

infantrycak
08-13-2007, 05:48 PM
I can't see an NFL vet like McKinney fully commiting to a totally opposite direction than where his responsibilities lie...

McKinney seems (especially at LG) to have periodic cranial flatulence 0-2 times per game. Maybe it is all assignments we just don't know, but over the years there seems to have been a pattern of plays like this.

Runner
08-13-2007, 05:50 PM
McKinney seems (especially at LG) to have periodic cranial flatulence 0-2 times per game. Maybe it is all assignments we just don't know, but over the years there seems to have been a pattern of plays like this.

Maybe we don't have rock solid blocking schemes.

Vinny
08-13-2007, 05:52 PM
McKinney seems (especially at LG) to have periodic cranial flatulence 0-2 times per game. Maybe it is all assignments we just don't know, but over the years there seems to have been a pattern of plays like this.I've noted this recently in other posts but McKinney's fatal flaw is pass blocking. He is a decent run blocker but he is exactly as you stated imo also.

infantrycak
08-13-2007, 05:54 PM
Maybe we don't have rock solid blocking schemes.

Could be, but also could be decision making isn't a strong point. I have had similar thoughts about Pitts who seems to be much more comfortable when on an island than when he has help and has to make decisions himself on where to engage.

HOU-TEX
08-13-2007, 05:58 PM
I've noted this recently in other posts but McKinney's fatal flaw is pass blocking. He is a decent run blocker but he is exactly as you stated imo also.

I agree. IMO, he should've been doing what Flannigan is doing on this particular play. He doesn't engage in a double team 100% but he does have a hand in with McKinney. At the same time he's covering his area/zone in case of a blitz or delayed blitz. Courtesy of BullPenPhots:

Once again, just my observation.:shades:

http://www.texansbullpen.com/07photogallery/Preseason/2007-08-11-Bears-Texans/1stQuarter/DSC_0280.JPG

Texan_Bill
08-13-2007, 05:58 PM
Sometimes people way overthing blocking. McKinney clearly should have went to this left (or his outside) When in doubt on blocking schemes fall back on "FOIL"

F (D-lineman in 'front' of you)
O (D-lineman to the 'outside' of you)
I (D-lineman to the inside of you)
L (Look for a linebacker - or DB)

real
08-13-2007, 06:01 PM
Going to pretty much guarantee that McKinney didn't make a mistake on that one...

It's not the blocking schemes either...

Sometimes the defense just brings more than you can block...

If Mckinney fans out to the left and that MLB comes it's going to be a disaster...as where the DB is left to come freely and Schaub still has time to make a quick throw...


But I'm one with this....carry on...

Texan_Bill
08-13-2007, 06:05 PM
Sometimes the defense just brings more than you can block...
.


Very much true!! Sometimes you have to tip your cap to the D for guessing right... .Not too many O-lines can stop 6 (or more) when they're coming.

Vinny
08-13-2007, 06:22 PM
Going to pretty much guarantee that McKinney didn't make a mistake on that one...

It's not the blocking schemes either...

Sometimes the defense just brings more than you can block...

If Mckinney fans out to the left and that MLB comes it's going to be a disaster...as where the DB is left to come freely and Schaub still has time to make a quick throw...


But I'm one with this....carry on...well, the mlb wasn't coming in so its a moot point. The guy that came in...came in over McKinneys gap, and that's just the reality of the deal...and McKinney was helping a guy who was already being blocked. Sure, the QB has to pick up the unblocked guy....and he did it....but he didn't have to be unblocked if McKinney was awake.

The Pencil Neck
08-13-2007, 09:47 PM
I gotta go with xtru on this one.

if McKinney was supposed to block one of those blitzers, Green wouldn't have picked up the guy he picked up. He would have picked up the outside guy and left the inside guy to McKinney. Since Green picked up the inside guy, this has to be a situation where it's on the QB to get the ball out quick and to the right place.

jdog
08-13-2007, 09:52 PM
Very much true!! Sometimes you have to tip your cap to the D for guessing right... .Not too many O-lines can stop 6 (or more) when they're coming.

By the way, this is the point I made in another thread. We should be seeing this in practice from our own defense alot. Our offense should be consistently seeing six pass rushers. It's unrealistic to think that we aren't going to see this OFTEN in the regular season, and we have to learn to handle it as effectively as possible.

real
08-13-2007, 10:41 PM
well, the mlb wasn't coming in so its a moot point. The guy that came in...came in over McKinneys gap, and that's just the reality of the deal...and McKinney was helping a guy who was already being blocked. Sure, the QB has to pick up the unblocked guy....and he did it....but he didn't have to be unblocked if McKinney was awake.

Wow...

Ok, I'm done...

real
08-13-2007, 10:57 PM
When I was in college we used a pro-style pass blocking scheme...Trust me when I say that McKinney appears to be doing the right thing...Pass blocking schemes are way too dificult to see a free guy running through, a guy being double teamed and then assuming that the guy doing the double teaming is a fault...C'mon...if it were that simple anybody would be able to disect the O-line....

No way was McKinney going to get to that blitzing DB unless he folded around and that could have been all kinds of uglie...You also can't expect him to have even seen that free blitzer...

I know the MLB didn't come, but it isn't "moot" point...Before the ball is snapped it's not like the defenders helmets turn bright red on the guys who are coming and black on the guys who aren't...That's why as offensive linemen you have rules and in order to keep the offense flowing like a well oiled machine everyone must do their part..

It makes no sense for Flannagan and McKinney to ignore that MLB when it's quite possible he could have blitzed...You don't normally want your RB's picking up DE's or DT's so that adds in a wrinkle too...

The O-line is going to take care of the D-line first, ILB's second...RB's are normally going to pick up blitzers from the outside and in some just inside the tackle and guard....Of course this is a gross oversimplification, but McKinney is doing what he needs to on that play...He's heling on the DT with his eyes on the Mike...If the Mike blitzes to Flanny's side He would pass the DT off to McKinney and he'd come off and pick up the blitzing mike...If the mike blitzes to Mckinney's side Flannagan would have the DT solo and McKinney would come off...

When I played in college I was overwhelmed with the blocking schemes at first...We ran a pro style offense and my head coach was a one time NFL LB, won a superbowl with the buffalo bills.....I've had some pretty good coaches...Not trying to say "I know more than you", I'm just saying that this is yet one more reason the O-line may get undeserved criticism...Just because a guy is running through freely doesn't mean it's on the O-line, or anyone at all for that matter...

If Schaub wasn't expecting the blitzer, coming from his blindside he'd have been sacked....When you see pressure right up the middle on the QB that is never supposed to happen...That is on the O-line...In this instance they brought two guys in between the guard and the tackle...Green picked up the closest threat, Schaub got rid of the ball before the second threat was able to get there...AKA he made them pay for gambling....

This was my biggest gripe with David, and I'm glad we now have a QB capable of making accurate reads and quick decisions...

I freaking luv football....

HOU-TEX
08-14-2007, 09:19 AM
When I played in college I was overwhelmed with the blocking schemes at first...We ran a pro style offense and my head coach was a one time NFL LB, won a superbowl with the buffalo bills.....I've had some pretty good coaches...Not trying to say "I know more than you", I'm just saying that this is yet one more reason the O-line may get undeserved criticism...Just because a guy is running through freely doesn't mean it's on the O-line, or anyone at all for that matter...


I freaking luv football....

FYI, the Bills have never won a Superbowl.:)

ObsiWan
08-14-2007, 09:24 AM
well, the mlb wasn't coming in so its a moot point. The guy that came in...came in over McKinneys gap, and that's just the reality of the deal...and McKinney was helping a guy who was already being blocked. Sure, the QB has to pick up the unblocked guy....and he did it....but he didn't have to be unblocked if McKinney was awake.

I watched the replay. On that play the Bears sent 8 guys. The DB and OLB hesitated until the linemen were engaged to start their rush.

real
08-14-2007, 09:28 AM
FYI, the Bills have never won a Superbowl.:)

BILLY JOE TO BE ENSHRINED IN COLLEGE FOOTBALL HALL OF FAME


SOUTH BEND, Ind. - Former Florida A&M head football Coach William "Billy" Joe will be one of 20 legends due to be enshrined in the National Football Foundation College Football Hall of Fame on Saturday, July 21 at the culmination organization's annual Enshrinement Festival in South Bend, Ind.

Thousands will gather from all over the country to pay tribute to the storied careers of 20 of the game's greatest stars.

The weekend's celebration will include a celebrity golf tournament, an outdoor concert, a grand parade, a flag football game, a youth clinic, culminating with the Enshrinement Dinner and Show on Saturday night.
Listed below is the official Hall of Fame biography of Coach Billy Joe, who will be enshrined along with a group which includes Florida State coach Bobby Bowden and former FSU Heisman Trophy winner Charlie Ward, Jr. at 6:00 p.m. Saturday:


My bad....I think he just went to the superbowl.... (http://thefamurattlers.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/072007aad.html)