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View Full Version : Division is our's for the taking...


TheRealJoker
08-05-2007, 11:44 PM
Anthony McFarland is out for the year with a torn ACL, Glenn retired, corners are gone, Corey Simon failed a physical, Sanders is hurt, the Colts are falling apart. Who are the DTs for them now? No Booger, no Simon, no Sanders, no Cato June... they are going to have a hard time stopping anyone this year.

They replaced Stokley with Gonzo but I dont think he'll be an upgrade this year, the lack of defense is going to be too big of an obstacle for Manning and co. to overcome imo.

I think we split with them, we always play the Jags tough, and I think the Tacks aren't gonna win a game against us this year!!!

Texans AFC South Division winners!!! :texflag: :splits: :whip: :fans:

TexanSam
08-06-2007, 12:10 AM
Yeah...I don't see this happening. Their run defense was crap last year in the regular season, their defense has been crap before with Manning and Co. and they still managed to win. I still see them going 11-5 and winning the division again. I can see us going 9-7 and in the race until the final few weeks, but it's the Colts division to lose.

brakos82
08-06-2007, 12:21 AM
Yeah...I don't see this happening. Their run defense was crap last year in the regular season, their defense has been crap before with Manning and Co. and they still managed to win. I still see them going 11-5 and winning the division again. I can see us going 9-7 and in the race until the final few weeks, but it's the Colts division to lose.

We need Vinatieri. He's won more SB's than Brady and Manning. :shades:

The Pencil Neck
08-06-2007, 12:30 AM
We need Vinatieri. He's won more SB's than Brady and Manning. :shades:

He's won as many SB's as Brady and Manning combined.

:hacker:

TexansLucky13
08-06-2007, 12:30 AM
Heck yes we will take division!

:texflag:

brakos82
08-06-2007, 12:39 AM
He's won as many SB's as Brady and Manning combined.

:hacker:

He has the key to the Super Bowl. We should kidnap him before gameday. :spy: :splits:

TexansSeminole
08-06-2007, 01:49 AM
He's won as many SB's as Brady and Manning combined.

:hacker:

The Robert Horry of football.

Goldensilence
08-06-2007, 02:20 AM
Anthony McFarland is out for the year with a torn ACL, Glenn retired, corners are gone, Corey Simon failed a physical, Sanders is hurt, the Colts are falling apart. Who are the DTs for them now? No Booger, no Simon, no Sanders, no Cato June... they are going to have a hard time stopping anyone this year.

They replaced Stokley with Gonzo but I dont think he'll be an upgrade this year, the lack of defense is going to be too big of an obstacle for Manning and co. to overcome imo.

I think we split with them, we always play the Jags tough, and I think the Tacks aren't gonna win a game against us this year!!!

Texans AFC South Division winners!!! :texflag: :splits: :whip: :fans:

I'm optomistic as the next person about the chances of success this season but i'm not buying into the early demise of the colts.

Marlin Jackson got good playing time last year at Safety instead of his natural corner postion which he'll be moving back to. They spent a second rounder on Tim Jennings last year and also drafted Daymeion Hughes this year. I expect them both to see sizeable PS playing time.

Even with all the defensive loses expect Manning to be a conductor behind the line. Should be the most explosive offense with the additon of Utect stepping up last year and easing Anthony Gonzales into the lineup.

Texanmike02
08-06-2007, 02:51 AM
I know anyone who's read anything I've posted knows what I think but let me give this a go Hmm... let me see:
Manning >>> Schaub
Rb roation > rb rotation
Harrison/Wayne >> Johnson/????
OL >>>> OL
Freeny >> Williams
Interior line << Interior Line
RE > RE
OLBs >> OLB
MLB << Demeco Ryans
CBs >> CBs
SS/FS >>>> SS/FS
Vinitari >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brown

Hmm... I don't see us taking the division. Not this year. Geez guys give our team some time to grow.

Mike

Specnatz
08-06-2007, 03:49 AM
I know anyone who's read anything I've posted knows what I think but let me give this a go Hmm... let me see:
Manning >>> Schaub
Rb roation > rb rotation
Harrison/Wayne >> Johnson/????
OL >>>> OL
Freeny >> Williams
Interior line << Interior Line
RE > RE
OLBs >> OLB
MLB << Demeco Ryans
CBs >> CBs
SS/FS >>>> SS/FS
Vinitari >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brown

Hmm... I don't see us taking the division. Not this year. Geez guys give our team some time to grow.

Mike

Really how can yo say there RB situation is better, you have a rookie (last year) and everyone else gone compared to Green and Dayne, you are giving there players with no exp more credit to do something than any other player in the division. Which by your logic in all your other post is an extreme exaderation.

Afain a rookie stats versus an all pro, now while I would give freeny the edge here, they do not go against each other. So an edge to one or the other versus each other is wrong, you should compare them to the respected position they will face.

CB - they lost both starting CBs yet you give them the edge? Why do you know something the rest of the world does not know about who is going to step up? I just want to know your logic in your annoiting someone who has yet to prove jack the all world?

Texanmike02
08-06-2007, 05:19 AM
Really how can yo say there RB situation is better, you have a rookie (last year) and everyone else gone compared to Green and Dayne, you are giving there players with no exp more credit to do something than any other player in the division. Which by your logic in all your other post is an extreme exaderation.

Afain a rookie stats versus an all pro, now while I would give freeny the edge here, they do not go against each other. So an edge to one or the other versus each other is wrong, you should compare them to the respected position they will face.

CB - they lost both starting CBs yet you give them the edge? Why do you know something the rest of the world does not know about who is going to step up? I just want to know your logic in your annoiting someone who has yet to prove jack the all world?

Freeny is their edge rusher... well I guess if you want go ahead and put Mathis up against Mario.. he's better than Mario too. As for our CBs... I realize everyone has been telling you they are impressed with our CBs in camp. But last year our DBs were among the worst in football, if not the worst in football. Before you knock me for anointing someone who has yet to prove jack to the world perhaps you should stop anointing someone (other than Dante) who has just proven they belong as, at best, a nickel back in this league. Hayden and Jackson looked solid last year in limited time granted. But we looked HORRIBLE.

In the running game... Addai averaged 4.8 ypc last year. He had over 1k yards splitting carries. Oh yeah and did I mention he's good? So once again... how dare I anoint someone who's not proven anything in the league. I should wait for them to have what 5... maybe 6 bad years and then judge them on one or two games at the end of a year? Dayne counts for something? Do you really believe the hype? He's a backup.. .and a bad one at that. He had a good year. Did you notice that no one in the nfl was beating down our door to get him? So its Green vs Addai. People have talked about how Denver gets a lot out of nobody. Guess what so does Indy. It hasn't mattered whether it was James, Addai, Rhodes, the guy who tore his ACL (their other rb not sure where he is or his name) They have gotten production out of all of them. That's why I'm anointing them better than us.

Go ahead nit pick on two or 3. Even disagree. But if you think we're ready to overtake the Colts give me some of whatever you're smoking.


Mike

Kaiser Toro
08-06-2007, 06:15 AM
I think the Texans have left a bag full of excrement on fire, rang the doorbell and ran from Texan Mike's house every Saturday evening for the last five years. Or he is the eternal pessimist that hangs on a thread of doubt.

ccdude730
08-06-2007, 06:46 AM
I think the Texans have left a bag full of excremenet on fire, rang the doorbell and ran from Texan Mike's house every Saturday evening for the last five years. Or he is the eternal pessimist that hangs on a thread of doubt.

:heh:



:includeme:

the wonger need food
08-06-2007, 08:37 AM
But last year our DBs were among the worst in football, if not the worst in football.


You keep spewing the same garbage but what are you backing this up with? Statistically there were several teams with a worse secondary.

ObsiWan
08-06-2007, 09:17 AM
I know anyone who's read anything I've posted knows what I think but let me give this a go Hmm... let me see:
Manning >>> Schaub
Rb roation > rb rotation
Harrison/Wayne >> Johnson/????
OL >>>> OL
Freeny >> Williams
Interior line << Interior Line
RE > RE
OLBs >> OLB
MLB << Demeco Ryans
CBs >> CBs
SS/FS >>>> SS/FS
Vinitari >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brown

Hmm... I don't see us taking the division. Not this year. Geez guys give our team some time to grow.

Mike

The problem with your "math" is one you continually point out when you assess/predict our level of success in this approaching season.

Both teams have lost and/or exchanged critical components on both sides of the ball. Its not just the components that determine success, its the sum of the parts. And the last time we played, our parts were better.

However, as you like to point out regarding the Texans, we haven't seen either team line up against someone with a different color jersey on. So whether or not those changes will result in improvement or decline -to either team- remains to be seen.

BigTimeTexanFan
08-06-2007, 09:58 AM
I think their defense has lost more than it has gained. We beat them last year because we ran the ball. That is the best way to beat Freeny and Mathis because they edge rush themselves out of most running plays. Now they just lost McFarland to injury and Cato June to free agnecy. I see a big hole in the middle of their defense. But then again they could have some untapped talent and maybe their defense will actually be better:sarcasm:

Spike
08-06-2007, 10:03 AM
I think most people would agree that the Texans improved more than any other team in our division. That being said, there is a huge gap to fill between the Colts and the Texans and you still have to give them the edge.

Yankee_In_TX
08-06-2007, 10:13 AM
They replaced Stokley with Gonzo but I dont think he'll be an upgrade this year

I agree with everything except that. Just watch.

dskillz
08-06-2007, 10:13 AM
I don't see us winning the division, but a 2nd place finish is possible, and dare I say it, 'likely'. Even with all the losses the Colts had, they still are very talented and with Manning behind center, you can never count them out. Main thing is they know how to win.

Texans Horror
08-06-2007, 10:15 AM
I think most people would agree that the Texans improved more than any other team in our division. That being said, there is a huge gap to fill between the Colts and the Texans and you still have to give them the edge.

The other teams made what seemed like some bone-headed draft selections. That being said, I have a hard time criticizing the rest of the AFC South after what the Texans went through last year. What at first appeared like their worst draft class ever has slowly turned into being regarded as one of their best.

Because of their offseasons, the Texans' schedule looks easier (IMO) than ever before and the teams look more beatable. A word of caution, though: the Colts are not a team that shot up to meteoric heights in one off-season. That makes them less susceptible, IMO, to the post-Super Bowl-itis that plagues so many Super Bowl teams. While they seem poised for the fall, Manning and the Colts, I suspect, will find ways to win.

YoungTexanFan
08-06-2007, 11:29 AM
I will not expect us to beat the Colts. Their defense may suck even harder this year, but when they get down, they have to "resort" to passing. Peyton and co. are obviously better than our defense. We aren't able to take that step. However, assuming we play the Jags well again, we could conceivably take 2nd place. If we split with them, we should be looking at no worse than 3rd.

DBCooper
08-06-2007, 11:33 AM
And it looks like the Colt's just lost Booger.

Green and Dayne. All day long.

Texans_Chick
08-06-2007, 11:40 AM
I think the Texans have left a bag full of excrement on fire, rang the doorbell and ran from Texan Mike's house every Saturday evening for the last five years. Or he is the eternal pessimist that hangs on a thread of doubt.

It is easier to be pessimistic with a team that hasn't had success because it is harder to build and improve than it is to fail.

The thing I like about sports is that they aren't played on paper. You can't just list all the players and say therefore this team isn't going to win. Reality programming isn't real--it's scripted and edited. Sports is the ultimate reality programming.

If the games were just a math of whose players have had more success in the past, then I am guessing the Texans don't beat the Colts at home or the Jags twice.

Double Barrel
08-06-2007, 11:49 AM
While I'd like to see us win the division and clinch our first playoff spot as much as any fan, I'm still waiting for our first winning season. Get over that hump and then we can set our expectations a bit (or a lot) higher.

It's the Colts division to lose, IMO. They've been good for too long to just start sucking the year after winning the Super Bowl. They've got a strong system that will allow them to get new players and still win, much like the Patriots do every year.

michaelm
08-06-2007, 01:07 PM
I agree with everything except that. Just watch.

Nice to hear your unbiased opinion, Yank.... :)

TexansFanatic
08-06-2007, 02:35 PM
It is easier to be pessimistic with a team that hasn't had success because it is harder to build and improve than it is to fail.

The thing I like about sports is that they aren't played on paper. You can't just list all the players and say therefore this team isn't going to win. Reality programming isn't real--it's scripted and edited. Sports is the ultimate reality programming.

If the games were just a math of whose players have had more success in the past, then I am guessing the Texans don't beat the Colts at home or the Jags twice.

Nicely said.

Additionally, how many times have you figured a team would suck one year just because they sucked the year before only to find that the team gets on a roll early and finishes with a strong season.

Often, I think, a great season starts with a few wins in September, because the team starts to believe in itself and winning becomes a habit.

If the Texans can start the season with 3 wins in September, they will have a VERY successful 2007. I, for one, believe.....

BigTimeTexanFan
08-06-2007, 04:34 PM
Maybe Schaub should vow not to cut his hair until we get 3 wins in a row. Oh, enough of that!!!

barberman
08-06-2007, 05:00 PM
The Colts are the reigning SB champions and I don`t see them going down the tube this year. I agree they have lost several players and can be considered weaker than last year but they still have many weapons and have proven they can overcome adversity. Our day will come and it won`t be long, IMHO a couple of years and we will own the AFC South, but not this year, we still have a ways to go.

Texanmike02
08-06-2007, 06:05 PM
You keep spewing the same garbage but what are you backing this up with? Statistically there were several teams with a worse secondary.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef.php

We are in the bottom 1/3 of every major statistic in the league. The DVOA system takes into account the number of passes as well as making the numbers at the beginning of the season less important than the last. It has us ranked 2nd worst in front of only Washington. We lack a legit number 2 corner as well as FS of any kind.

Completion % 31st
Yards 23rd
TD's against 20th
Ints 29th
Yards/Att 25th


Teams completed 2/3s of the pass attempts against us

Tell me where are these statistics that we finished above so many teams? What are YOU basing this on? Oh yards/completions? everyone is within 2.5 yards of each other. Find me one legitimate stat that we're not in the bottom 12 in the league. Pass defense it doesn't exist. Those 81 yard bombs that Petey gave up... do you not remember us giving up 81 yards/play on the exact same play?

Our Quarterback against rating was 90.2. THAT IS PATHETIC.

You can disagree with me that's fine. Even voice it I don't mind. But back something YOU say up. Are you going to argue that a defense that finished in the bottom 12 in almost any passing stat that mattered, and in the bottom 5 or 6 in most wasn't one of the worst pass defenses in the league? There's garbage around here... but its not sitting in my yard.

Mike

Texans_Chick
08-06-2007, 06:48 PM
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef.php

We are in the bottom 1/3 of every major statistic in the league. The DVOA system takes into account the number of passes as well as making the numbers at the beginning of the season less important than the last. It has us ranked 2nd worst in front of only Washington. We lack a legit number 2 corner as well as FS of any kind.

Completion % 31st
Yards 23rd
TD's against 20th
Ints 29th
Yards/Att 25th


Teams completed 2/3s of the pass attempts against us

Tell me where are these statistics that we finished above so many teams? What are YOU basing this on? Oh yards/completions? everyone is within 2.5 yards of each other. Find me one legitimate stat that we're not in the bottom 12 in the league. Pass defense it doesn't exist. Those 81 yard bombs that Petey gave up... do you not remember us giving up 81 yards/play on the exact same play?
Our Quarterback against rating was 90.2. THAT IS PATHETIC.

You can disagree with me that's fine. Even voice it I don't mind. But back something YOU say up. Are you going to argue that a defense that finished in the bottom 12 in almost any passing stat that mattered, and in the bottom 5 or 6 in most wasn't one of the worst pass defenses in the league? There's garbage around here... but its not sitting in my yard.

Mike


I will not contest most of what you said. I will however put the Petey plays in context.

That was his first week back after being out earlier in the season with a broken foot. That the Texans coaching staff put him in that position without much help over the top (twice!) against a guy like Lee Evans is totally uncool.

ObsiWan
08-06-2007, 07:05 PM
I will not contest most of what you said. I will however put the Petey plays in context.

That was his first week back after being out earlier in the season with a broken foot. That the Texans coaching staff put him in that position without much help over the top (twice!) against a guy like Lee Evans is totally uncool.

I'd like to add that Lee Evans is Buffalo's #1 WR (note the team stats - no one else is close). So Faggins shouldn't have been covering him to begin with. It should have been Robinson's job.

Evans 82 catches 1292 yds 15.8 ypc 8 TDs
Reed, J. 34 " 410 " 12.1 " 2 "
Price, P. 49 " 402 " 8.2 " 3 "
Parrish 23 " 320 " 13.9 " 2 "

Hopefully, bonehead defensive calls like this will not be repeated this year.

Texanmike02
08-06-2007, 07:08 PM
I will not contest most of what you said. I will however put the Petey plays in context.

That was his first week back after being out earlier in the season with a broken foot. That the Texans coaching staff put him in that position without much help over the top (twice!) against a guy like Lee Evans is totally uncool.

No doubt. I agree. But coaching figures into our pass defense. The bottom line is we did get torched twice on the same exact play. So you don't blame Faggins for it, blame the Safety (don't remember who it was) for not recognizing oh SH1T I've seen this before!!! That's my point as a whole our pass defense was HORRIBLE last year. So we weren't the worst... or the second worst maybe we finished 30th... does that make a difference?

And to Wonger, You may not agree with my analysis of the statistics.. thats fine, but trust me I ALWAYS check before I post something. I just figure people get a little tired of the numbers and may not always post it.

Mike

Vinny
08-06-2007, 07:11 PM
I'd like to add that Lee Evans is Buffalo's #1 WR (note the team stats - no one else is close). So Faggins shouldn't have been covering him to begin with. It should have been Robinson's job.

Robinson has great blitz skills so he will line up over the slot at times. It's not just an automatic that he should be lined up only on the wr1 at all times imo. If Faggins has the proper help up top he is a pretty solid coverage corner for the most part.

ObsiWan
08-06-2007, 07:21 PM
Robinson has great blitz skills so he will line up over the slot at times. It's not just an automatic that he should be lined up only on the wr1 at all times imo. If Faggins has the proper help up top he is a pretty solid coverage corner for the most part.

unfortunately, other teams track our tendencies and recognize that when D-Rob isn't on their #1 guy, then there's a drop-off in talent to be taken advantage of. All the need do is check to the right play.

The Bills did that to us twice. So if D-Rob doesn't make the sack, or at least disrupt the blocking so we get a sack, then we're taking an awful chance.

Vinny
08-06-2007, 07:23 PM
well, it isn't as simple as that, since there are 22 men on the field at once and the coverages, techniques played and the help shifts with the line calls and the play calls....lots of stuff going on.

Texanmike02
08-06-2007, 07:30 PM
Throw in the fact that according to Profootballtalk.com Sapp might be releases and don't forget that Tank Johnson is out there. Indy has a few options to replace Booger.


Mike

ObsiWan
08-06-2007, 07:33 PM
I suppose I would need the all-22 film to find out why Faggins was on Evans with no over the top help. And I admit, it is an assumption to think that D-Rob would have fared any better on those plays given Evans' pure speed.

But to take D-Rob out of coverage, didn't really help our secondary. Especially since, out of his 83 tackles (3rd on the team, BTW), he had zero sacks.

Maybe there were some "hurries" in there. I don't really know where to look for that level of stat breakdown.

Texanmike02
08-06-2007, 07:45 PM
I suppose I would need the all-22 film to find out why Faggins was on Evans with no over the top help. And I admit, it is an assumption to think that D-Rob would have fared any better on those plays given Evans' pure speed.

But to take D-Rob out of coverage, didn't really help our secondary. Especially since, out of his 83 tackles (3rd on the team, BTW), he had zero sacks.

Maybe there were some "hurries" in there. I don't really know where to look for that level of stat breakdown.

I'll go suffer.. I mean watch those that game again and see if I can figure out what we were thinking.

Mike

Texanmike02
08-06-2007, 07:48 PM
Nicely said.

Additionally, how many times have you figured a team would suck one year just because they sucked the year before only to find that the team gets on a roll early and finishes with a strong season.

Often, I think, a great season starts with a few wins in September, because the team starts to believe in itself and winning becomes a habit.

If the Texans can start the season with 3 wins in September, they will have a VERY successful 2007. I, for one, believe.....


I think this year that a fast start is going to be hard to come by. With all of the changes on the offensive side of the ball (our line is shuffling it looks like, as well as QB and RB and WR2 etc). Man I wish I was going to get to see week 1.

Mike

junior
08-06-2007, 09:14 PM
all i think their defenses injuries mean is that you better do what you can to pick up manning, harrison, and wayne in your fantasy leagues because they will be putting up 40 points a game. they have the offense to win 10 games without any defense.

TheRealJoker
08-06-2007, 09:46 PM
I disagree that Gonzo will be an upgrade over Stokley THIS YEAR.

He has a learning curve just like every other rookie, Colston is the exception not the rule when it comes to rookie receivers and he'd have to put up Colston-like numbers to be an upgrade over Stokley this year.

TK_Gamer
08-07-2007, 12:14 AM
It's pretty much common knowledge now how to ATTEMPT to beat the colts, you run them to death and eat up the clock, the less time there offense has the better chance you have. They have a very talented O-line so pressuring manning is an almost impossible task. Plus manning is so good and knowing where his options are at all times that he only needs a couple seconds to pick out the go-to guy. Until we can pressure Manning, every game will be a bring your lunch effort to rein in their offense.

Texanmike02
08-07-2007, 01:31 AM
It's pretty much common knowledge now how to ATTEMPT to beat the colts, you run them to death and eat up the clock, the less time there offense has the better chance you have. They have a very talented O-line so pressuring manning is an almost impossible task. Plus manning is so good and knowing where his options are at all times that he only needs a couple seconds to pick out the go-to guy. Until we can pressure Manning, every game will be a bring your lunch effort to rein in their offense.

Don't forget Sanders is back. Many many sources credit him with being the difference in their run defense. I'd be skeptical of it but look how their run defense did last year once they got him back in the playoffs. June and Booger will be losses but you can expect the colts to fill Booger's shoes. Its never good for a guy to go down but from a Colts prospective going down in week 1 of training camp is the best you can hope for. Cory Simon will get his shot to fill Booger's shoes you can be sure, as he was plan A last year but don't rule out them going and getting someone off of waivers.

Sanders kind of plays the John Lynch role in their defense last year. They will tell you he's smart and just has a nose for the ball and a sense of when its a run.

On offense, I'm 30. Manning may be the best player I've ever seen. I am old enough to remember Montana, Young, Marino, LT,Sanders,22 etc. But I don't know that I've ever seen someone who is so cerebral and so physically talented. Its like when I was little and used to watch Mike Scott and Nolan Ryan go back to back and pitch master pieces. Manning pays such attention to detail that its amazing. His drops, his PA fakes, his decisions. If I had to point to one player in sports right now and tell my son you want to be like him.. work like him, carry yourself like him... It might be Manning. I hope Schaub pays attention when we're playing them this year. The bonus of playing against them is that he will get to see him work twice a year.

Mike

ReliantTexan
08-07-2007, 01:36 AM
I'd be skeptical of it but look how their run defense did last year once they got him back in the playoffs. If your going to judge the colts run defense on how they played in the playoffs then why not judge our defense in yds allowed the last 13 games of the season in which they were ranked 12th not 23rd.Or how bout we judge them the last 10 games of the season in which they were a top 10 D.

Texanmike02
08-07-2007, 02:57 AM
If your going to judge the colts run defense on how they played in the playoffs then why not judge our defense in yds allowed the last 13 games of the season in which they were ranked 12th not 23rd.Or how bout we judge them the last 10 games of the season in which they were a top 10 D.

I think I'll answer this in my own thread.

Mike

Thorn
08-07-2007, 09:36 AM
We are not good enough to contend for the division this year. But we are good enough to pull off some upsets against good teams who don't take us seriously.