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View Full Version : Rookie contracts need to be stopped


gtexan02
08-03-2007, 12:00 PM
This is getting absolutely out of control. Rookie contracts are crazy.

I just saw that Levi Brown's deal with the Cards has the potential to make him the highest paid OT in the NFL

Similarly, CJ just signed his deal with the Lions, making him the highest paid player in Detroit history.

Guess what? Neither of these guys have played a single snap in the NFL!

THis is getting out of hand, and someone needs to step in and fix this issue

Texan_Bill
08-03-2007, 12:04 PM
The system has a built in fix... The salary cap.

If these teams keep committing to ridiculous contracts and the players "bust" the team will pay for it in their cap... Of course, if the guy actually lives up to the hype, then the contract was worth it.

But your right, teams need to be fiscally responisble.

V Man
08-03-2007, 12:19 PM
You would think between the owners and the veterans they would put a scale together, would help owners keep cost down, and make sure that all-stars aren't being paid less than someone who hasn't even played a down yet.

Lucky
08-03-2007, 12:22 PM
To be fair, these rookies are drafted and can negotiate with only one team. If you believe Calvin Johnson's contract is ridiculous, think of what it would be if he were allowed to enter the NFL as a free agent. Of course, the best way to avoid paying these monster rookie contracts is to win more games and not draft in the top 5.

Vinny
08-03-2007, 01:26 PM
I've thought of this differently at different times. New players are signed on speculation and long term projections and are slotted so that the high picks with the most expectation getting the most money. With the salary cap as big as it is, I don't have a problem with the system because it forces you to make good decisions or it hurts you. I kinda like that...."fair" is for kindergarten, real life has consequences. If you aren't in love with the player for the salary slot you can always trade down.

real
08-03-2007, 01:35 PM
I've thought of this differently at different times. New players are signed on speculation and long term projections and are slotted so that the high picks with the most expectation getting the most money. With the salary cap as big as it is, I don't have a problem with the system because it forces you to make good decisions or it hurts you. I kinda like that...."fair" is for kindergarten, real life has consequences. If you aren't in love with the player for the salary slot you can always trade down.

I agree...

If they set a value for these picks then a bust wouldn't have the impact that it does....

It makes teams choose wisely, and it also helps teams get steals...

Mr teX
08-03-2007, 01:48 PM
I can't hate on the young guys getting their money.

I know if it were me, i'm trying to take the owner for everything, it's the nature of the business. In addition to what Vinny & Xtru. said, it just boils down to how much you like the guy & how bad do you wanna win. If you think there is someone who is somewhat comparable that you might be able to get later in the draft for less money, go for it.

just don't expect your fans to understand that, cause all they wanna do is win.

Errant Hothy
08-03-2007, 01:52 PM
There saying that there is about 0 chance of Levi getting all the money in his contract, as a good chunk of it is in performace clauses that are reported as being fairly far fetched.

Makes it sound kinda like Ricky's first contract (althought probably not that bad).

gtexan02
08-03-2007, 01:53 PM
I can think of no validation for a player who hasn't even played 1 down being paid higher than the top player in the NFL at that position.

hollywood_texan
08-03-2007, 02:02 PM
Levi's contract is about $61 million but only $18 million is guaranteed.

So, the $43 million or so that is not guaranteed, he has to make the team.

It would be nice to have a guy that underperforms to salary but would be an asset to the team at a lower price. However, player's rarely renegotiate their contract, so a guy that would normally make the team but is paid too much is cut.

I don't see a problem with the rookie contracts.

There is a reasonable chance on any play their career could end or be crippled for life.

Let them negotiate as they see fit with the team that selected them.

What works for the NBA doesn't necessarily work the NFL and vice versa.

real
08-03-2007, 02:05 PM
I can think of no validation for a player who hasn't even played 1 down being paid higher than the top player in the NFL at that position.

I don't see the relevance of that when discussing this topic...

In everday society when we graduate from college we aren't drafted to a specific work place....If I go to medical school and become a doctor I can choose where I want to work...I'm basically entering the workforce as a free agent...We have the ability to turn a job down an find another in our proffesion that is more to our liking...these guys can't do that...All they have the power to do is negotiate with the one team...

Doctor A may be a better doctor than Doctor B, but if Doctor B finds himself in the right situation he may in fact wind up making more money...

I don't see why these guys shouldn't have the power to negotiate their salaries just like the rest of the general population...

gtexan02
08-03-2007, 02:09 PM
I don't see the relevance of that when discussing this topic...

In everday society when we graduate from college we aren't drafted to a specific work place....If I go to medical school and become a doctor I can choose where I want to work...I'm basically entering the workforce as a free agent...We have the ability to turn a job down an find another in our proffesion that is more to our liking...these guys can't do that...All they have the power to do is negotiate with the one team...

Doctor A may be a better doctor than Doctor B, but if Doctor B finds himself in the right situation he may in fact wind up making more money...

I don't see why these guys shouldn't have the power to negotiate their salaries just like the rest of the general population...


Ive never said they shouldn't be allowed to negotiate their salaries, I simply stated that I find it ridiculous that someone with 0, zero, zip NFL experience is already guaranteed more money than multiple time probowl players

Back your example, no company would ever pay someone with zero experience more than the highest paid person in their field.



And about football players risking their lives every day, thats a load of bologna. How many NFL players are "crippled" every year? Im sure there are jobs with MUCH higher injury percentages than the NFL. I bet many jobs have higher death risks than the NFL, too.

I understand NFL players are talented, but I still refuse to accept that someone who hasn't played a snap can get a contract worth more than 99% of their teammates

The system isn't working all that well, either, when people like JaMarcus Russel are STILL holding out for more money or better incentives.

Mr teX
08-03-2007, 02:13 PM
Ive never said they shouldn't be allowed to negotiate their salaries, I simply stated that I find it ridiculous that someone with 0, zero, zip NFL experience is already guaranteed more money than multiple time probowl players

Then you should really have a problem with the NBA, where everything is pretty much guaranteed & guys like Allan Houston are still getting paid & haven't played in what 2-3 years? this isn't chump change either, this is millions, that can kill any offseason acquistions & submarine your team for years. I think jalen rose is still getting paid by 2 teams as well. You have this in the NFL, but most guys never see their complete contract worth, unlike the NBA.

I have no problem with the NFL b/c at least teams can still cut you & save millions as opposed to the nba where contracts have to be bought out or paid out. Just ask the rockets about those infamous matt maloney,kelvin cato contracts.

Texan_Bill
08-03-2007, 02:22 PM
Levi's contract is about $61 million but only $18 million is guaranteed.


Only 18 million? That sucks.

Errant Hothy
08-03-2007, 02:52 PM
Only 18 million? That sucks.

Yes, but that's 18 million over 6 years, which contray to what some have been spouting off does NOT make him the highest paid player at his position.

gtexan02
08-03-2007, 03:10 PM
Yes, but that's 18 million over 6 years, which contray to what some have been spouting off does NOT make him the highest paid player at his position.

Maybe you don't get it? Guaranteed money is not the only thing in his salary.


The contract, negotiated by agent Joel Segal, has a maximum value of $62 million. That is believed to be the most lucrative contract in NFL history for an offensive lineman


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2959237

Sure he may not get all of it, but even the thought of a rookie OL getting a contract CLOSE to being the highest paid in the NFL is backwards.

Errant Hothy
08-03-2007, 03:24 PM
Maybe you don't get it? Guaranteed money is not the only thing in his salary.



http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2959237

Sure he may not get all of it, but even the thought of a rookie OL getting a contract CLOSE to being the highest paid in the NFL is backwards.

ESPN Radio has reported several times, that like Ricky Willaims rookie contract, MOST of the escalators are tied to performance clauses that he is likely not to meet.

And when eveaulation rookie contracts the key is always the guaranteed money, as the team will likely re-negoiate to Levi turns into a stud...why? Becaue he will want more guaranteed moeny! ZOMG!!!!!!

powerfuldragon
08-03-2007, 03:30 PM
This is getting absolutely out of control. Rookie contracts are crazy.

I just saw that Levi Brown's deal with the Cards has the potential to make him the highest paid OT in the NFL

Similarly, CJ just signed his deal with the Lions, making him the highest paid player in Detroit history.

Guess what? Neither of these guys have played a single snap in the NFL!

THis is getting out of hand, and someone needs to step in and fix this issue
i vaguely remember being slightly lambasted for suggesting the same thing a year ago after the draft.

gtexan02
08-03-2007, 03:35 PM
ESPN Radio has reported several times, that like Ricky Willaims rookie contract, MOST of the escalators are tied to performance clauses that he is likely not to meet.

And when eveaulation rookie contracts the key is always the guaranteed money, as the team will likely re-negoiate to Levi turns into a stud...why? Becaue he will want more guaranteed moeny! ZOMG!!!!!!

No matter the case, CJ is still the highest paid player, at ANY position, in the HISTORY of the Detroit Lions. (I know that doesn't necessarily mean all that much with inflation/salary cap increases, but STILL! He hasnt even played a SINGLE down or practiced even ONCE).

The Detroit Lions have agreed to terms with their first-round pick, wide receiver Calvin Johnson, on a whopping six-year, $55.5 million contract that includes almost $27.2 million worth of guarantees. The contract has a maximum value of $64 million, and it makes him the highest-paid player in Lions history.

Unlike other rookie deals, it includes guaranteed money paid out from the moment Johnson signs it. It also includes another $4.5 million in bonuses that Johnson, the second overall pick in the draft, should earn by the middle of this season if he sees even a minimum amount of playing time.

Mr teX
08-03-2007, 04:10 PM
No matter the case, CJ is still the highest paid player, at ANY position, in the HISTORY of the Detroit Lions. (I know that doesn't necessarily mean all that much with inflation/salary cap increases, but STILL! He hasnt even played a SINGLE down or practiced even ONCE).

He's the truth, like jesus shuttleworth...

mexican_texan
08-03-2007, 04:22 PM
He's the truth, like jesus shuttleworth...
...+1

Hagar
08-03-2007, 05:43 PM
Kinda on the same line of thought, I've never been too keen on the draft itself. Iíve never understood why they had a draft. If youíre a not an athlete and you have good grades coming out of college, you get to choose whom you work for in the future.

I know; everybodyís going to say it promotes a sense of fair play. But does it really? Whatís more fair then a free market? I can see how a salary cap would promote fair play, but not the draft.

Having a draft almost seems un-American.

Goldensilence
08-03-2007, 06:57 PM
I've had the same line of thought myself as pertaining to the structure of rookie contracts vs battle tested Vets. I think in the next few years as rookie contracts continue to rise and vets want to step in and say this is getting out of hand. They will.

infantrycak
08-16-2007, 06:58 PM
Looks like Goodell may try to address this problem.

And we think we're going to agree with most of his decisions in year two. Especially if one of them is to try to address the ongoing problem regarding the payment of enormous windfalls to rookies who have never worn an NFL helmet except when trick-or-treating.

This year, for example, safety LaRon Landry received more guaranteed money than any safety in the history of the league, simply because his name was the sixth one called on draft day.

"It's a concern," Goodell said in a Thursday interview with the Detroit media. "I think it's a concern also for other reasons that are less obvious that came out when we talked to the players this year. It's difficult when a rookie comes in to a locker room and has that kind of a signing bonus. It's difficult [for] the veterans to provide that kind of leadership that's so important on teams. Money changes that dynamic a little bit. We'll talk to Gene [Upshaw]. We're not trying to save the dollars, we just think the dollars should go to players who have earned that on the field through their accomplishments and leadership. It's a system we have and we'll do the best we can with it right now.''

from ProFootballTalk.com

Goldensilence
08-17-2007, 10:17 AM
Looks like Goodell may try to address this problem.



from ProFootballTalk.com

Honestly i don't see how Goodell can even allude to any sort of system being used. The salaries keep getting jacked each year because the 1st rounders expect payraises from last year's pick, which is just insane. I hope they do get something done about it or we'll see more cases like Jamarcus Russell.

Mr teX
08-17-2007, 11:01 AM
Honestly i don't see how Goodell can even allude to any sort of system being used. The salaries keep getting jacked each year because the 1st rounders expect payraises from last year's pick, which is just insane. I hope they do get something done about it or we'll see more cases like Jamarcus Russell.

Exactly, but how can these veterans get mad? I suspect that they weren't worried about the veterans when they coasted into & held out of camp b/c they wanted more money when they were rookies.

Holding out for more money or what you want isn't new & these teams need to man up & stop giving into these guys b/c the drafted player is the one in the no-win situations. Once you've hired an agent & drafted, you're past the point of no return............. That is unless you've been drafted by the MLB also or you don't shriek at the idea of playing in the CFL for a year or more.

Draft them & if they won't deal reasonably, let them seek their other options or let them wait it out until they come to their senses.

infantrycak
08-17-2007, 12:05 PM
Exactly, but how can these veterans get mad? I suspect that they weren't worried about the veterans when they coasted into & held out of camp b/c they wanted more money when they were rookies.

How can they get mad?--because guys are coming in getting paid more than perennial pro-bowlers and there is a salary cap. Heck call it self interest instead of mad--less money on rookie contracts means more for the vets. Really the problem area is limited to the top 10 or so picks. It wouldn't really be hard to get done. The guys in future drafts don't get a vote--they aren't in the league yet. So basically in the league now would be voting for more potential money for themselves. The trade off might be shorter rookie contracts.

tulexan
08-17-2007, 12:43 PM
He's the truth, like jesus shuttleworth...

I thought Paul Pierce was the truth?

Mr teX
08-17-2007, 02:53 PM
How can they get mad?--because guys are coming in getting paid more than perennial pro-bowlers and there is a salary cap. Heck call it self interest instead of mad--less money on rookie contracts means more for the vets. Really the problem area is limited to the top 10 or so picks. It wouldn't really be hard to get done. The guys in future drafts don't get a vote--they aren't in the league yet. So basically in the league now would be voting for more potential money for themselves. The trade off might be shorter rookie contracts.



it's not like these veterans aren't getting their money. They might have to switch teams to get it, but they do get it if they still have any worth left on the field.
it just comes down to how owners want to spend their money & what your looking for. On a young guy with upside or a veteran most likely on the down side by virtue of being on the FA market anyway?

You also have to factor in that if the rookies aren't able to do it b/c you're regulating their contracts, the veterans, including the not-so-good ones, will sure as hell do it. you'll start seeing an increase in Todd Wade-type contracts as we know about those all to well.

ObsiWan
08-18-2007, 11:07 AM
I can think of no validation for a player who hasn't even played 1 down being paid higher than the top player in the NFL at that position.

This sums up my position on this perfectly. There's no way a youngster who's never taken a snap in the league should be paid more than a proven starter.

I'm in favor of setting up a standard pay scale based on position and round drafted that is incentive-laden.
If you bump the starter out, you get a raise.
If you meet the incentives you make more money - because you EARNED it.
You make a significant contribution to your team's success, you get even more money.

A coach shouldn't be pressured to start a guy because he signed a big salary or was drafted high. That creates busts or David Carr situations where a guy is made to start before he's really ready.

CloakNNNdagger
08-18-2007, 11:35 AM
Although our draft compensation is a ridiculous system, it is certainly not a new unheard of approach:

"I'll gladly pay you Tuesday...............for a hamburger today!"
Wimpie

BattleRedToro
08-18-2007, 11:39 AM
I'm going to let all of you complainers in on a little secret. What you think about players' salaries doesn't matter. The NFL and the NFLPA are going to negotiate their CBA without any input from any fans. You are wasting your time complaining about players' salaries.

I don't even want to hear the excuses about ticket prices going up because of salaries either. That is the typical rhetoric used by billionaire owners, when in reality players' salaries has very little of an impact on ticket prices. Ticket prices are more or less determined by the owners' percieved demand for tickets. In otherwords, owners charge what they believe fans are willing to pay for their tickets.

Now as for the draft, if you look into the history of the draft you will see that the reason for it's formation was the teams with losing records inability to sign top collegiate talent, which meant that the best teams got better while the worst teams got worse. The draft was never meant to promote fairness, rather it was meant to promote a more competitive league, a job it has done very well.

infantrycak
08-18-2007, 08:37 PM
I'm going to let all of you complainers in on a little secret. What you think about players' salaries doesn't matter. The NFL and the NFLPA are going to negotiate their CBA without any input from any fans. You are wasting your time complaining about players' salaries.

I don't even want to hear the excuses about ticket prices going up because of salaries either.

It is called a discussion and it has nothing to do with ticket prices, beer prices, etc. Nobody is talking about reducing the money paid to all players combined, just how the cap gets distributed.

BattleRedToro
08-18-2007, 10:25 PM
It is called a discussion and it has nothing to do with ticket prices, beer prices, etc. Nobody is talking about reducing the money paid to all players combined, just how the cap gets distributed.

Again your discussion about the distribution of players' salaries is meaningless as you will have no part in the CBA that determines said distribution.

Koolaid Time
08-18-2007, 10:57 PM
Why isn't the NFL paying the way OUR employers pay us?

If you look at the NFLPA CBA and all the "exceptions" etc.. you can see that its all a CLUSTER**** when you try to set rookie contracts and include "guaranteed money"....

Who knows???