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brakos82
08-01-2007, 11:24 PM
source (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7083580)

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) - Hopefully for the Tennessee Titans, Vince Young learned a very important lesson Wednesday in training camp. Never - ever - throw a punch again with his throwing hand.

Luckily for the 2006 offensive rookie of the year and the Titans, the punch thrown at safety Donnie Nickey glanced off his helmeted head.
"The guys stick up for the quarterback, and he sticks up for his teammates," coach Jeff Fisher said. "Enough said."

Young has never hid his competitive spirit, whether back in college at Texas or since being drafted last year by the Titans. During training camp last year, he leveled defensive tackle Randy Starks after having a pass intercepted.

Nickey, who primarily plays special teams and played at Ohio State, had knocked down receiver Joel Filani earlier when the rookie ran the wrong route, a post when the defense was defending against the post.

Trainers helped Filani to the side, then Nickey broke up the pass by taking receiver Courtney Roby to the ground on the very next play by putting his right arm around Roby's neck in a chokehold move. Young, who had thrown the pass, erupted.

He yelled at Nickey and asked him what he was doing, telling him to quit that stuff. Young ran over as Roby stayed on the ground. Nickey put his right hand on Young's chest before the quarterback shoved back and took a swing at the safety.

Tight end Bo Scaife came in and helped push Nickey away from the fray, and 13-year veteran center Kevin Mawae got in front of Young, pushing him clear. Young took several minutes to cool off and continued yelling back.

Fisher pulled his team together at midfield and reminded them to cool it. After practice ended, Nickey met with Roby and shared a half hug, and Young hugged Nickey. Fisher then made the three stand behind him as he talked with reporters.

"My preference is not to see my quarterback throwing punches with his throwing hand. Secondly, we need to avoid the stuff on the field, and hey, it happens. Everything is OK. Right?" Fisher asked of the trio.

They all said yes.

Young said the incident was over, families fight and they all got it off their chest. Asked about throwing a punch with his throwing hand.

"That's bad. That's bad. That's real bad," Young said.

Nickey, a three-year veteran, said he understands that would have been a great play on Sunday in a game but that he shouldn't have done that to his own teammate. He apologized to Roby and realized it wasn't a clean hit.

"Someone comes at me, I'm not going to back down. I don't care if it's Vince, President Bush. That's just instincts that come out. But I respect him for it. I didn't want that to happen. I think it's over. We put it to bed," Nickey said.

However, he did have some advice for Young in the future if he does decide to start swinging again.

"At least not with your right hand man. Jab with the left and wait for the cavalry," Nickey said.

Notes: Running back LenDale White took part in non-contact drills Wednesday but not team drills. Coach Jeff Fisher said he had a sore shoulder and White wanted to practice. But Fisher said it was the coaches' decision to hold him out. ... Veteran right guard Benji Olson missed practice because he was meeting with a specialist about his lower back. He has missed a couple days because of his low back. ... Defensive end Travis LaBoy and defensive tackle Jesse Mahelona sat out with tight hamstrings. Offensive lineman Leroy Harris missed with a mild knee strain, and defensive tackle Rien Long was given the practice off after lightning forced the team to the indoor practice field before coming back outside.

TexanSam
08-01-2007, 11:28 PM
Wait wait...he threw a punch at a guy even though he was still wearing his helmet? Forgot about being stupid and throwing the punch with your throwing arm, what about being stupid and throwing a punch at a guys head when he's still wearing a freaking helmet!

brakos82
08-01-2007, 11:31 PM
Wait wait...he threw a punch at a guy even though he was still wearing his helmet? Forgot about being stupid and throwing the punch with your throwing arm, what about being stupid and throwing a punch at a guys head when he's still wearing a freaking helmet!

exactly my thought :tease: :shades:

Trap_Star
08-01-2007, 11:35 PM
who cares?...let him punch away, i say..

Wolf
08-02-2007, 05:12 AM
titans need a little crash davis


Crash Davis: Did you hit me with your right hand or did you hit me with your left? Huh? Did you hit me with your right hand or did you hit me with your LEFT?
Ebby Calvin LaLoosh: My left.
Crash Davis: Good! That's good; when you get in a fight with a drunk you don't hit him with your throwing hand. God, I can't keep giving you these free lessons so quit screwin' around and help me up.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094812/quotes

edited the quote in bold (was pitching)
sure it was a little tap but that was his right hand.. he mess that up because of stupidity and Titans season goes down hill

that is what I posted on another thread

BattleRedToro
08-02-2007, 05:37 AM
Chalk this one up to leadership. :lol:

Silver Oak
08-02-2007, 07:09 AM
I've always been quick to bring up vince's dumb-as-a-rock intelligence, but somehow he was smart enough to have started a scrap with enough teammates around to break it up before he got his ass whipped on the practice field.

Mr. White
08-02-2007, 07:30 AM
A couple of guys in their early 20's trying to prove something in training camp. I'll file this one under BFD.

NEWSFLASH: Fights happen in training camps. Anyone who's ever played football knows this. It's a cheap way to get attention from the coaches.

http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/070801/070801_young_hmed_8p.rp420x400.jpg

This is Vince and Nickey leaving the field after practice yesterday.

hobie
08-02-2007, 07:34 AM
FIGHT??? 1 punch that wasn't even that and a push..damn, must have been a slow day at the office..

Kaiser Toro
08-02-2007, 07:34 AM
A couple of guys in their early 20's trying to prove something in training camp. I'll file this one under BFD.

NEWSFLASH: Fights happen in training camps. Anyone who's ever played football knows this. It's a cheap way to get attention from the coaches.

http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/070801/070801_young_hmed_8p.rp420x400.jpg

This is Vince and Nickey leaving the field after practice yesterday.

That is leadership in action.

Mr teX
08-02-2007, 08:08 AM
i saw the clip of the "fight" on NFL total access last night & it wasn't a punch but a open handed push slap thingy. Nickey did take the guy down pretty hard, VY was just looking out for his guy all things considered. They kissed & made up later in practice.

Of course i'll sit back & wait for all the titans trolls to come in and say he's just being a leader & that's what leaders do!!!!.............

Texan_Bill
08-02-2007, 08:35 AM
Let "his highness" flail away.... He could hurt his throwing hand.

Assuming of course, that he had a throwing hand... :pirate:

BigTimeTexanFan
08-02-2007, 08:36 AM
I saw the clip as I was waking up this morning and it definately was not a punch. More like a girly slap although he may have broken a blood vessel in his throwing hand:aikido:

Yankee_In_TX
08-02-2007, 08:37 AM
It was a UT/OSU thing :-P

Texan_Bill
08-02-2007, 08:37 AM
How were the finger nails? Did they come out okay???

2ToneBlue
08-02-2007, 08:43 AM
i saw the clip of the "fight" on NFL total access last night & it wasn't a punch but a open handed push slap thingy. Nickey did take the guy down pretty hard, VY was just looking out for his guy all things considered. They kissed & made up later in practice.

Of course i'll sit back & wait for all the titans trolls to come in and say he's just being a leader & that's what leaders do!!!!.............He's just being a leader & that's what leaders do!!!!

Couldn't resist... Nickey is a little bit of a problem I think, last year at this time he took a late shot at LenDale in the back and they got into a fight. Nickey took off his helmet and swung it like a bat that time. Least this one wasn't as bad right??

Texan_Bill
08-02-2007, 08:50 AM
A good leader wouldn't be stupid enough to take a swing at someone with a helmet on... A good leader would have waited for a break, whenever everyone took their helmets off - and then cold cocked 'em....

A leader should be smart......

Mr. White
08-02-2007, 09:01 AM
Nickey is a little bit of a problem I think, last year at this time he took a late shot at LenDale in the back and they got into a fight. Nickey took off his helmet and swung it like a bat that time. Least this one wasn't as bad right??

Nickey's doing what he has to do IMO. He's a backup looking for more playing time. Guys like him have to be intense if they want to get noticed.

Not to mention the guy that beat his alma mater at home was up in his grille.

BigTimeTexanFan
08-02-2007, 09:30 AM
A good leader wouldn't be stupid enough to take a swing at someone with a helmet on... A good leader would have waited for a break, whenever everyone took their helmets off - and then cold cocked 'em....

A leader should be smart......

Or waited till night when everyone is asleep, sneek into his room, duct tape him to his bed and toss frozen marbles all over him. Now that's leadership for ya:bat:

real
08-02-2007, 09:32 AM
A QB who's not afraid to mix it up gets my juices flowing...

I can guarantee that the players on that team gained more respect for VY after that...

Guys fight every camp....nothing new or shocking there...I know everyone remembers the Spencer/Babin deal....

Lucky
08-02-2007, 10:36 AM
http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/070801/070801_young_hmed_8p.rp420x400.jpg

John McClain has to be jealous.

HoustonFrog
08-02-2007, 11:19 AM
A QB who's not afraid to mix it up gets my juices flowing...

I can guarantee that the players on that team gained more respect for VY after that...

Guys fight every camp....nothing new or shocking there...I know everyone remembers the Spencer/Babin deal....

I agree. I won't throw out leadership or anything but it is always good to see a guy stick up for his own guys, especially when they don't have much at that position.

I'm still confused for the VY hatred. Good guy. Wins games. Works hard to shut people up. I know the VY rhetoric got obscene here last off season and season but it isn't his fault people are psycho. I have mad respect for the guy.

Double Barrel
08-02-2007, 11:22 AM
II'm still confused for the VY hatred.

He's a Titan. :bat:

HoustonFrog
08-02-2007, 12:10 PM
He's a Titan. :bat:

Well I get that DB. With some people it seems personal though. As a rival, definitely.:pirate:

Silver Oak
08-02-2007, 12:10 PM
I agree. I won't throw out leadership or anything but it is always good to see a guy stick up for his own guys, especially when they don't have much at that position.

I'm still confused for the VY hatred. Good guy. Wins games. Works hard to shut people up. I know the VY rhetoric got obscene here last off season and season but it isn't his fault people are psycho. I have mad respect for the guy.


"people are psycho"?

This is a Houston Texans website. If Peyton, Rivers, Romo,or McNabb had done something like that, we would still be ridiculing them.

As much as folks are heaping the man-love on vy for showing "leadership", you need to also tip your hat to the defensive guy who hit the hell out of a receiver when a crappy pass on a little out pattern left him completely vulnerable.

real
08-02-2007, 12:14 PM
"people are psycho"?


when a crappy pass on a little out pattern left him completely vulnerable.

yeah.....people are psycho....:gun:

Silver Oak
08-02-2007, 12:21 PM
:potkettle:

TexanSam
08-02-2007, 12:27 PM
He's a Titan. :bat:

Exactly. Shoot, if Jesus played for the Titans, I'd learn to have animosity for him too!

Noblesse Oblige
08-02-2007, 12:32 PM
Exactly. Shoot, if Jesus played for the Titans, I'd learn to have animosity for him too!

Would Jesus play for a team named for pagan beings? He's probably insist they change their name to the Tennesee Cherubs or Seraphim or something.

Noblesse Oblige
08-02-2007, 01:16 PM
would jesus care what the name of the team was?

doubt it...he'd just be thinking about that contract...

He'd call it a Covenant

Double Barrel
08-02-2007, 01:34 PM
Exactly. Shoot, if Jesus played for the Titans, I'd learn to have animosity for him too!

No doubt. His Hail Mary play would be unstoppable, tho'.

Noblesse Oblige
08-02-2007, 01:42 PM
No doubt. His Hail Mary play would be unstoppable, tho'.

"We thought our playoff hopes were dead, but then Jesus proved he's our Savior and resurrected our chances. There's only one thing he doesn't like to do--running crossing routes."

TexansLucky13
08-02-2007, 01:43 PM
No doubt. His Hail Mary play would be unstoppable, tho'.

Gratz on your 8000th post DB!

Anyways, on topic, I could care less if they fight. Some call it leadership, some call it stupidity. Either way, we will beat the tar out of these Tacks.

Double Barrel
08-02-2007, 01:51 PM
"We thought our playoff hopes were dead, but then Jesus proved he's our Savior and resurrected our chances. There's only one thing he doesn't like to do--running crossing routes."

HA! That's pretty funny. :heh:

Gratz on your 8000th post DB!

Anyways, on topic, I could care less if they fight. Some call it leadership, some call it stupidity. Either way, we will beat the tar out of these Tacks.

Thanks, man. I didn't even realize the count. Glad I used it wisely! :D

With regards to The Fight; The Emperor Bud is licking his chops with an evil smile, for he knows well the path of the dark side...

Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.

Vince needs to feed his anger, use it, embrace it. For one day he shall be Darth Greatness. :hothboy:

Vega
08-02-2007, 02:02 PM
I completely disagree with it being "the right thing to do" or "good leadership". Good leaders set examples but they don't take swings. You never heard of Joe Montana or Peyton Manning hitting guys. They'll call a guy out or get in his face but when you take a swing at a guy, it comes off as immature more than good leadership. I can't imagine that the veterans on the team were thinking, "wow, he really has control of the team."

And if you are going to swing, make it a real swing. Not some girly slap. :dangit:

real
08-02-2007, 02:12 PM
I completely disagree with it being "the right thing to do" or "good leadership". Good leaders set examples but they don't take swings. You never heard of Joe Montana or Peyton Manning hitting guys. They'll call a guy out or get in his face but when you take a swing at a guy, it comes off as immature more than good leadership. I can't imagine that the veterans on the team were thinking, "wow, he really has control of the team."

And if you are going to swing, make it a real swing. Not some girly slap. :dangit:

What the veterans were thinking: Wow, this young guy is not tolerating any B.S....I likes...

Vega
08-02-2007, 02:22 PM
Yeah, but what happens when two other dudes start going at it and Vince tries to break it up. Now it's a "do as I say not as I do" type of thing. It also takes away the ability for coaches to discipline other guys because "Vince can do it".

Should he have stepped up and called the guy out? Yes.
Should he have taken a shot at him? Absolutely not.

But it's the Titans, so what do I care.

Vinny
08-02-2007, 02:26 PM
I wish we got that kind of fearless passion out of our old QB's here....I don't think I ever saw Carr take up for any of his WR's who took a cheap or questionable shot in practice here. I still can't believe we passed on Young....still boggles my mind. Too bad he is a Titan.

real
08-02-2007, 02:29 PM
Yeah, but what happens when two other dudes start going at it and Vince tries to break it up. Now it's a "do as I say not as I do" type of thing. It also takes away the ability for coaches to discipline other guys because "Vince can do it".

Should he have stepped up and called the guy out? Yes.
Should he have taken a shot at him? Absolutely not.

But it's the Titans, so what do I care.

I wish some of you would get a grip on reality...

I've never heard of or been on a football team where the coaches get mad at players for fighting during camp...In fact I've even been on teams where the coach will let you duke it out for a while before they break it up...

It's almost a given that during summer camp fights are going to happen...

It's football...AKA it's a violent sport...

Fighting at practice is actually a good thing sometimes...especially when in the end as a player and a man you are able to recognize that your temper got the best of you and you have no real animosity towards your teammate...

Immobilarity
08-02-2007, 02:45 PM
Someone has an opinion here;

Big deal.

HoustonFrog
08-02-2007, 03:02 PM
"people are psycho"?

This is a Houston Texans website. If Peyton, Rivers, Romo,or McNabb had done something like that, we would still be ridiculing them.

As much as folks are heaping the man-love on vy for showing "leadership", you need to also tip your hat to the defensive guy who hit the hell out of a receiver when a crappy pass on a little out pattern left him completely vulnerable.

1) The "psycho" comment was referring to a state of mind where two polar opposite sides were either riduculing the guy for nothing or praising him like he was a god before/after draft. I think a majority were in between. My point being he is a great football player who seems to have intangibles that are wanted....rival or not. Just because people argued here for a year about why we did or didn't take him and people are sick of hearing about VY, doesn't mean he is a horrible player/person. 2) I don't know of anyone who likes their own teammate overdoing it to a point where you can get a teammate hurt 3) I'll restate that the guy has mad game and I respect him. I've yet to see him proven wrong as to what he can or cannot do and I respect that because it takes work. I like that he takes control.

TEXANRED
08-02-2007, 03:58 PM
Ha, his punch glanced off the dudes helmet, he can't even connect when throws a punch!

Silver Oak
08-02-2007, 04:12 PM
I still can't believe we passed on Young....still boggles my mind. Too bad he is a Titan.


Based on eight games (and his college career) he has swayed your opinion that much Vinny???

I have no doubt to not believe the guy is a heck of an athlete, but as a complete QB, I just cannot believe he is the real thing yet.

I have never, in 30+ years of following football, seen such strong feelings towards one individual player. Of all the previous drafts in the NFL, I can't recall fans looking back for so long, towards who we "coulda had". Is it his Houston connection? t.u. connection? The fact we kept Carr, only to release him the following season? I don't have that answer. What I do know is that you cannot find one post on titansonline.com lamenting their taking LenDale White over Maurice Drew!

vy's passing stats are abysmal, and yet some say he is MontanaStaubachElwayManning-esque. Yes, he was qb during an good run at the end of the season, but defense and special teams had as great, if not greater role in that streak as vy had.

Talk to me Vinny....why are you boggled?

Vinny
08-02-2007, 04:23 PM
my mind hasn't changed in years. I called him a "future superstar" in the NFL back when he was a freshman at UT...so no, 8 games hasn't changed my view of him. All I know is if it is 4th and 8 with less than a min on the clock and you are within a score of winning or tying the game I can't think of another QB in the league I'd rather have at QB than Vince Young for one play.

Vince Young had a better rookie season than John Elway did, but if you have read me for a while you know how I feel about random stat grabs....so go figure. I do trust my eyeballs though.

powerfuldragon
08-02-2007, 04:26 PM
M-m-mario Williams!!!

HoustonFrog
08-02-2007, 04:36 PM
Based on eight games (and his college career) he has swayed your opinion that much Vinny???

I have no doubt to not believe the guy is a heck of an athlete, but as a complete QB, I just cannot believe he is the real thing yet.

I have never, in 30+ years of following football, seen such strong feelings towards one individual player. Of all the previous drafts in the NFL, I can't recall fans looking back for so long, towards who we "coulda had". Is it his Houston connection? t.u. connection? The fact we kept Carr, only to release him the following season? I don't have that answer. What I do know is that you cannot find one post on titansonline.com lamenting their taking LenDale White over Maurice Drew!

vy's passing stats are abysmal, and yet some say he is MontanaStaubachElwayManning-esque. Yes, he was qb during an good run at the end of the season, but defense and special teams had as great, if not greater role in that streak as vy had.
Talk to me Vinny....why are you boggled?


I really don't want to debate VY again or the ins and outs of intangibles but the reason people think he will be like those other guys is one thing.....WINNER. He wins. It isn't a coincidence. He does it at every level. Sure he is going to have some tough times....he might this year. But people follow him and he wins. You can say what you want about defense and special teams, they basically won a game by themselves and VY was the difference in many others. Do you really think it is a coincidence that a teams confidence and overall play improved after that switch?Winners breed a winning attitude and the others will follow. When people believe they are never out of games or that they have a chance no matter the opponent, they have won half the battle.

Honestly, he wasn't my choice for us to draft but I just don't get the "stat" thing or whatever else excuses when he just wins. I mean weren't people talking last year how he wouldn't start for 3 years because he couldn't do in the pros what he did in college?I am not on this guys jock I just will never understand the constant doubt towards a guy who keeps embarrassing people.

Double Barrel
08-02-2007, 04:46 PM
I am far from a UT or VY fan, and now that he's a Titan, I will never root for the guy.

But as an NFL fan, I have to admit that he's fun to watch and definitely a guy that has those so-called "intangibles" that propel him to do great things. And I'd take a guy like this any day over someone with all the physical passing skills but no heart.

I don't look back and understand the linear nature of our existence. What could've been is just that. Hopefully Mario is at least an adequate DE and lessens the sting that many H-town football fans feel when they see Young doing great things on the field. Obviously it's a time will tell situation.

Hookem Horns
08-02-2007, 04:54 PM
http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/070801/070801_young_hmed_8p.rp420x400.jpg

John McClain has to be jealous.

LOL, that is great.

C'mon, if VY were a Texan everyone here would be loving this. He was sending a message and it's no wonder the guys around him are willing to run through a brick wall for the guy. It still makes me ill that Bud got his grubby hands on this guy. If he ever develops an accurate passing game in this league it's going to suck for us for a LONG time.

hollywood_texan
08-02-2007, 04:55 PM
I understand the logic of picking of Mario (which includes assuming David Carr is a Franchise QB), but I would have taken VY.

But, it's too early to tell how things will shake out.

I wish the best and hope for the best for Mario and GO TEXANS!

Silver Oak
08-02-2007, 05:40 PM
I don't really get the "winner" thing. He didn't win a high school championship. Although he was on a national championship team in college, and even though he won the big game, he was surrounded by some darn good talent too. He didn't win his biggest game last season (N.E.), so the "winner" label is maybe a little misleading.

With only the best of the best even getting to play in the NFL, it could be argued that all of them are "winners" up to this point in their careers. But I digress...

I've an idea, let's meet back here in 5 years and we'll beat this draft over again, and have more history to base it on than just 1/2 season. Until then, I will root 100% for my hometown Texans, and root loudly against any other team, irregardless of wheher they come from Houston or not.

:fans:

Blazing Arrow
08-02-2007, 06:22 PM
He went 8-5 as a start for a team that was starting a vet QB who had taken his team to a SB and NFC championship game and started 0-5. The loss in NE while they started their #1 D in an game that meant nothing to them is not really an indicator. He loses any of the 8 that the Titans won they would have been just as important.

Taking a team that went 0-5 to start to almost being the first playoff team in NFL history with an 0-5 start to make the playoffs is pretty impressive even for a vet. You add that he was a rookie with questionable WRs, and a team with the 32 ranked D and he still managed to give hope to the fans into the last game.

The guy is a "winner" regardless of the last game he lost. Just makes his mouth water more this season for the chance.

gtexan02
08-02-2007, 06:30 PM
Obviously Texans fans wouldn't be commenting like this if we didn't, on some level, wish we had the guy.

I love Mario as much as the next guy, but to say he had anywhere near the impact that VY had on the Titans is as blind of homer-ism as you can get

Mr. Vince
08-02-2007, 06:40 PM
I don't really get the "winner" thing. He didn't win a high school championship. Although he was on a national championship team in college, and even though he won the big game, he was surrounded by some darn good talent too. He didn't win his biggest game last season (N.E.), so the "winner" label is maybe a little misleading.

With only the best of the best even getting to play in the NFL, it could be argued that all of them are "winners" up to this point in their careers. But I digress...

I've an idea, let's meet back here in 5 years and we'll beat this draft over again, and have more history to base it on than just 1/2 season. Until then, I will root 100% for my hometown Texans, and root loudly against any other team, irregardless of wheher they come from Houston or not.

:fans:

you are sooo aggy.

Overalls
08-02-2007, 06:48 PM
Vince Young had a better rookie season than John Elway did, but if you have read me for a while you know how I feel about random stat grabs....so go figure. I do trust my eyeballs though.

Chris Chandler won more games in his rookie year than Vince did. So is Vince the next Chris Chandler?

:fans:

Overalls
08-02-2007, 06:52 PM
Other Titans fans are getting panty twisted about Y'all being mean to Vick.. I mean Vince.

http://www.gotitans.com/goForum/showthread.php?t=29797

Blazing Arrow
08-02-2007, 06:53 PM
Chris Chandler won more games in his rookie year than Vince did. So is Vince the next Chris Chandler?

:fans:

That took some digging ....

I thought you would be tired after digging your self such a large hole with your predictions. :hmmm:

2ToneBlue
08-02-2007, 07:02 PM
Chris Chandler won more games in his rookie year than Vince did. So is Vince the next Chris Chandler?

:fans:I love comparisions.

Sure he could be a Pro-Bowler (done), a QB who leads his team to a SB and someone who ranks in the top 40 for most passing yards + completions in NFL history not to mention he's in the top 50 for most TD passes EVER.

Or...

He could be better :user:

TEXANRED
08-02-2007, 07:10 PM
He went 8-5 as a start for a team that was starting a vet QB who had taken his team to a SB and NFC championship game and started 0-5. The loss in NE while they started their #1 D in an game that meant nothing to them is not really an indicator. He loses any of the 8 that the Titans won they would have been just as important.

Taking a team that went 0-5 to start to almost being the first playoff team in NFL history with an 0-5 start to make the playoffs is pretty impressive even for a vet. You add that he was a rookie with questionable WRs, and a team with the 32 ranked D and he still managed to give hope to the fans into the last game.

The guy is a "winner" regardless of the last game he lost. Just makes his mouth water more this season for the chance.

I love how everyone blathers on how VY won eight games. VY won only one game last year and that was against the Texans. Other than that Travis Henry carried the offense, Pacman, and the defense rose up when they had to.

And for those who would like to argue this check out the Titans wins when Travis Henry played full strength. Henry was rushing for a buck thirty, a buck fifty, a buck seventy.

You got a qb who threw more INT than TD, a completion of just over 51%, and averaged less than 160 yards a game.

The rest that I would like to say is Dilfer won a superbowl, big deal.

TEXANRED
08-02-2007, 07:13 PM
I love comparisions.

Sure he could be a Pro-Bowler (done), a QB who leads his team to a SB and someone who ranks in the top 40 for most passing yards + completions in NFL history not to mention he's in the top 50 for most TD passes EVER.

Or...

He could be better :user:

One of the things that I am thankful for after the Oilers left, Chris Chandler is part of your history, not ours.

But you probably didn't know that.

Blazing Arrow
08-02-2007, 07:22 PM
One of the things that I am thankful for after the Oilers left, Chris Chandler is part of your history, not ours.

But you probably didn't know that.

Well he looked like David Carr for the last 5 season so you can feel our pain.

The only difference, he actually managed to win at least half of his games one season.

But I am sure you knew that already :fans:

2ToneBlue
08-02-2007, 07:26 PM
One of the things that I am thankful for after the Oilers left, Chris Chandler is part of your history, not ours.

But you probably didn't know that.What history is that? He's known as a Falcon if anything. He was a rental between Moon and McNair...

1995-1996 Houston? 25 games

Blazing Arrow
08-02-2007, 07:28 PM
I love how everyone blathers on how VY won eight games. VY won only one game last year and that was against the Texans. Other than that Travis Henry carried the offense, Pacman, and the defense rose up when they had to.

And for those who would like to argue this check out the Titans wins when Travis Henry played full strength. Henry was rushing for a buck thirty, a buck fifty, a buck seventy.

You got a qb who threw more INT than TD, a completion of just over 51%, and averaged less than 160 yards a game.

The rest that I would like to say is Dilfer won a superbowl, big deal.

Tell me in my post where I said he single handedly won the games. I believe my comment was:

He went 8-5 as a start

It's a team sport we all know that. Just like the Texans failings can not all be put on David Carr.

So you basically compared his rookie year to Manning, Elway, S Young, Moon ... the list goes on but to seriously bring up rookie years stats shows you are grasping or just do not understand the learning curve of the position very well.

TEXANRED
08-02-2007, 07:31 PM
What history is that? He's known as a Falcon if anything. He was a rental between Moon and McNair...

1995-1996 Houston? 25 games

Um yours...........you took the franchise and the right to retire players at your stadium, you get the turds along with them.

Chandler may have been a Falcon but he played for at least ten different teams.

TEXANRED
08-02-2007, 07:34 PM
Tell me in my post where I said he single handedly won the games. I believe my comment was:



It's a team sport we all know that. Just like the Texans failings can not all be put on David Carr.

So you basically compared his rookie year to Manning, Elway, S Young, Moon ... the list goes on but to seriously bring up rookie years stats shows you are grasping or just do not understand the learning curve of the position very well.
I wasn't specifically talking to you about that. However if you read through these posts or posts regarding VY you undoubtedly find someone saying VY won eight games last season.

I wasn't comparing his rookie year to anyone, I was talking strictly about last years production.

I was more responding to those who were comparing his stats with others and making a point.

2ToneBlue
08-02-2007, 07:42 PM
Um yours...........you took the franchise and the right to retire players at your stadium, you get the turds along with them.

Chandler may have been a Falcon but he played for at least ten different teams.Ohh ok, so you agree he was only a rental, but due to the fact we have rights to retire him means we will make him a part of our history?

If anything you'd have a good arguement against the Colts that drafted him just to be replaced by Jeff George :gun:

Blazing Arrow
08-02-2007, 07:46 PM
I am board so I figured I would chime in. :whip:

And you did compare him to other when you said:

The rest that I would like to say is Dilfer won a superbowl, big deal.

By mentioning the fact that he had more INTs then TD you imply that that makes him a poor choice at QB. A QB who was playing his rookie season on a team that was predicted to be in the toilet, I would agree with a seasoned vet putting up those numbers you have to start to question it.

Since he was a rookie last season it should be fair to put his numbers up against some of the greats and see how he did. About on average with the greats . so again I question even bringing it up.

TEXANRED
08-02-2007, 07:57 PM
Ohh ok, so you agree he was only a rental, but due to the fact we have rights to retire him means we will make him a part of our history?

If anything you'd have a good arguement against the Colts that drafted him just to be replaced by Jeff George :gun:

When did I agree he was a rental? Chandler never could stay healthy was the reason he got dropped.

And yes, he is part of your history. All Oiler history went with Bud Adams. So that means the 35-3 playoff loss against Buffalo, the 60-3 loss -vs- Cincinnati, Jeff Alm blowing his brains out with a shotgun during the season, and Jerry Glanville, are all yours.

Why on earth would I suggest you would retire Chris Chandler? Although after the decisions the Titans have made over the last two years nothing would surprise me now.

Who is talking about the Colts? Jeff George was a Falcon too.

TEXANRED
08-02-2007, 07:58 PM
Oh yea, Jim Eddie, he's all yours too.

TEXANRED
08-02-2007, 08:04 PM
I am board so I figured I would chime in. :whip:

And you did compare him to other when you said:



By mentioning the fact that he had more INTs then TD you imply that that makes him a poor choice at QB. A QB who was playing his rookie season on a team that was predicted to be in the toilet, I would agree with a seasoned vet putting up those numbers you have to start to question it.

Since he was a rookie last season it should be fair to put his numbers up against some of the greats and see how he did. About on average with the greats . so again I question even bringing it up.

First I mentioned Dilfer to counter VY getting props for winning eight games. The Ravens won the superbowl not Dilfer, the Titans won eight, not VY.

If you would like to compare rookie seasons then I think it would be fair to compare Leinart to Young.

Leinart started one less game than VY and had more production on just as horrible of a team as the Titans.

The handy cap that Leinart has -vs- VY is Dennis Green -vs- Jeff Fisher.

Blazing Arrow
08-02-2007, 08:23 PM
If you would like to compare rookie seasons then I think it would be fair to compare Leinart to Young.

Leinart started one less game than VY and had more production on just as horrible of a team as the Titans.

The handy cap that Leinart has -vs- VY is Dennis Green -vs- Jeff Fisher.

So now you are comparing a QB who had Boldin and Fitzgerald and saying they are even keel with Bennett and Wade?

and

"The Bears are who we thought they were!" :bat:

TEXANRED
08-02-2007, 08:33 PM
So now you are comparing a QB who had Boldin and Fitzgerald and saying they are even keel with Bennett and Wade?

and

"The Bears are who we thought they were!" :bat:
I love this response. Every time I mention Leinart out performing VY, Fitz and Boldin come up.

Just b/c you have two stellar receivers doesn't mean you will do good. Just ask Kurt Warner and Josh McCown.

awtysst
08-02-2007, 10:00 PM
my mind hasn't changed in years. I called him a "future superstar" in the NFL back when he was a freshman at UT...so no, 8 games hasn't changed my view of him. All I know is if it is 4th and 8 with less than a min on the clock and you are within a score of winning or tying the game I can't think of another QB in the league I'd rather have at QB than Vince Young for one play.

Vince Young had a better rookie season than John Elway did, but if you have read me for a while you know how I feel about random stat grabs....so go figure. I do trust my eyeballs though.

Vinny,
I hear what you are saying, and one day he might be there, but right now if it is 4th and 8 with less than a min on the clock and you are within a score of winning or tying the game, Id take Brady. He has done it so many times in the regualr season and the playoffs that I would take him. Maybe in time, Young will be at that level, but in my mind someday is not today.

awtysst
08-02-2007, 10:02 PM
I love this response. Every time I mention Leinart out performing VY, Fitz and Boldin come up.

Just b/c you have two stellar receivers doesn't mean you will do good. Just ask Kurt Warner and Josh McCown.

Didn't Kurt Warner win a Superbowl?

Blazing Arrow
08-02-2007, 10:21 PM
Didn't Kurt Warner win a Superbowl?

Like the words came right off my keyboard.

I love how everyone blathers on how VY won eight games. VY won only one game last year and that was against the Texans. Other than that Travis Henry carried the offense, Pacman, and the defense rose up when they had to.

And for those who would like to argue this check out the Titans wins when Travis Henry played full strength. Henry was rushing for a buck thirty, a buck fifty, a buck seventy.

You got a qb who threw more INT than TD, a completion of just over 51%, and averaged less than 160 yards a game.

The rest that I would like to say is Dilfer won a superbowl, big deal.

Unless you were referencing the SB the Titans were in??? I would imagine you would not be so bold until at least your team has a .500 season and that would be a stretch.

Maybe you get that response because it is true? Dropped balls, poorly run routes, and not having a sense of the field also hurts the QB throwing to the receiver.

And McClown is crap. To put him in the same sentence as Vince Young drops your credibility. Plus again you got back to a rookie year to scrape the barrel on your stats and a second year guy. Most people will tell you that a WR really does not step into form until his third season. I mean Boldin only played in 10 games that season???

awtysst
08-02-2007, 10:29 PM
Like the words came right of my keyboard. Unless you were referencing the SB the Titans were in??? I would imagine you would not be so bold until at least your team has a .500 season and that would be a stretch.

Maybe you get that response because it is true? Dropped balls, poorly run routes, and not having a sense of the field also hurts the QB throwing to the receiver.

And McClown is crap. To put him in the same sentence as Vince Young drops your credibility. Plus again you got back to a rookie year to scrape the barrel on your stats and a second year guy. Most people will tell you that a WR really does not step into form until his third season. I mean Boldin only played in 10 games that season???

Did you actually read my comment or did you just spout off your typical Rhetoric? Had you actually bothered to read my post you would have noticed I said nothing about McCown nor did I mention the Titans in any way.

Why did you go out of your way to mention "myt team" one that has not had a season over .500? Did I mention the Texans in this thread? Nope. I never mentioned Vince Young either. Check it out. My comment had to do with Kurt Warner and Kurt Warner alone.

You need to spend more time actually reading what people say before responding othereise you really look foolish.

Blazing Arrow
08-02-2007, 10:30 PM
Oh yea, Jim Eddie, he's all yours too.

And Tony Boselli is on you .... who do you think recovered faster as an organization? Not really seeing any of your points so far.

You guys had a good off-season you should try working that angle maybe?

Of course once we sign Rice that will be a moot point but you have a day or so ..... :woot2

Blazing Arrow
08-02-2007, 10:31 PM
Did you actually read my comment or did you just spout off your typical Rhetoric? Had you actually bothered to read my post you would have noticed I said nothing about McCown nor did I mention the Titans in any way.

Why did you go out of your way to mention "myt team" one that has not had a season over .500? Did I mention the Texans in this thread? Nope. I never mentioned Vince Young either. Check it out. My comment had to do with Kurt Warner and Kurt Warner alone.

You need to spend more time actually reading what people say before responding othereise you really look foolish.

I appologize I did not make my comment at you but did not want to repeat your comment. Direct what I said at TEXANRED comment which you quoted.

I fixed it so it more clearly reflects what I was trying to get at.

awtysst
08-02-2007, 10:42 PM
I appologize I did not make my comment at you but did not want to repeat your comment. Direct what I said at TEXANRED comment which you quoted.

I fixed it so it more clearly reflects what I was trying to get at.

Apology accecpted. I probably overated a bit too.

HoustonFrog
08-02-2007, 10:42 PM
I love how everyone blathers on how VY won eight games. VY won only one game last year and that was against the Texans. Other than that Travis Henry carried the offense, Pacman, and the defense rose up when they had to.

And for those who would like to argue this check out the Titans wins when Travis Henry played full strength. Henry was rushing for a buck thirty, a buck fifty, a buck seventy.

You got a qb who threw more INT than TD, a completion of just over 51%, and averaged less than 160 yards a game.

The rest that I would like to say is Dilfer won a superbowl, big deal.

Yet Travis Henry didn't start gaining those yards until a certain someone was at QB. I'm just saying, it goes both ways. You mentioned the defense rising up and they were one of the worst in the league. They won one game by themselves. I'll say what I said before and...I didn't go to UT or want to draft VY...all of these "risings up" and "big yardage games" only started during the streak. Take it for what you will. Confidence builds winning and winning builds expectations from all. It is the trickle down theory. If I listened to some of you guys there would be no special QBs because they always seemed to have good players and defenses around them...well yeah, most do at some point.

Blazing Arrow
08-02-2007, 11:02 PM
The Titans also changed to a zone blocking scheme to help protect VY when he rolls. Henry benefited and a line that was getting terrorized put an 1100+ yard back up who did not start the enrite season.

Mr. Vince
08-02-2007, 11:11 PM
Yet Travis Henry didn't start gaining those yards until a certain someone was at QB. I'm just saying, it goes both ways. You mentioned the defense rising up and they were one of the worst in the league. They won one game by themselves. I'll say what I said before and...I didn't go to UT or want to draft VY...all of these "risings up" and "big yardage games" only started during the streak. Take it for what you will. Confidence builds winning and winning builds expectations from all. It is the trickle down theory. If I listened to some of you guys there would be no special QBs because they always seemed to have good players and defenses around them...well yeah, most do at some point.To be specific, the Titans finished the season with the worst total defense in the NFL. Travis Henry had a 3.8 YPC career average before last season. He averaged 2.65 YPC before Vince entered the starting line-up, and 4.52 YPC after(coincidence?). Check the college stats for that one. VY made his mark on a TERRIBLE team, expected to finish dead last in the AFC, and took them to within one game of the playoffs in his rookie season. According to the experts he wasn't even supposed to contribute to an NFL team at least 2 or 3 years down the line. Kerry Collins lead a team to the Super Bowl, he started the season 0-3, and if he stayed at the helm do the Titans even come close to where they finished in '06? Please. VY had EVERYTHING to do with that turnaround.

Overalls
08-03-2007, 05:29 AM
Vince Young can turn a cheese sandwich into a GRILLED cheese sandwitch by using his MIND.

Immobilarity
08-03-2007, 06:42 AM
Overalls I don't need to see VY make it but I do need to taste it to verify your claim.

100 samples will be needed.

Texan_Bill
08-03-2007, 07:32 AM
Chris Chandler won more games in his rookie year than Vince did. So is Vince the next Chris Chandler?

:fans:

EDIT: Chris Chandelier (or for those with less discerning tastes) Chris "Glass Jaw" Chandler..


And to answer Overalls, NO. Chandelier had a way better arm.

Mr teX
08-03-2007, 08:31 AM
To be specific, the Titans finished the season with the worst total defense in the NFL. Travis Henry had a 3.8 YPC career average before last season. He averaged 2.65 YPC before Vince entered the starting line-up, and 4.52 YPC after(coincidence?). Check the college stats for that one. VY made his mark on a TERRIBLE team, expected to finish dead last in the AFC, and took them to within one game of the playoffs in his rookie season. According to the experts he wasn't even supposed to contribute to an NFL team at least 2 or 3 years down the line. Kerry Collins lead a team to the Super Bowl, he started the season 0-3, and if he stayed at the helm do the Titans even come close to where they finished in '06? Please. VY had EVERYTHING to do with that turnaround.

He had something to do with it no doubt, but it's not as much as you think. You sound like all these saints fans saying "since RB got here we've been winning, he's had a tremendous effect on our team.." when in fact it's mainly b/c they got a legitimate starting QB & a pro bowl RB back in the fold.

You guys had alot of luck last year (2nd jags game, giants game to name a few) & you've done really nothing to help out your main playmaker. To top that off, your schedule is one of the toughest in the league. If i were you i wouldn't bank on VY having that same effect leading you guys to the playoffs next year.

Texan_Bill
08-03-2007, 08:56 AM
He had something to do with it no doubt, but it's not as much as you think. You sound like all these saints fans saying "since RB got here we've been winning, he's had a tremendous effect on our team.." when in fact it's mainly b/c they got a legitimate starting QB & a pro bowl RB back in the fold.

You guys had alot of luck last year (2nd jags game, giants game to name a few) & you've done really nothing to help out your main playmaker. To top that off, your schedule is one of the toughest in the league. If i were you i wouldn't bank on VY having that same effect leading you guys to the playoffs next year.

Not to mention Adam Jones' contributions and there was that business of a 60 yard field goal...

DBCooper
08-03-2007, 08:57 AM
QB needs to have some fire in his blood. I don't know how Vince would have worked out as a Texan, but I wish he played for anyone but the Titans.


Would Jesus play for a team named for pagan beings? He's probably insist they change their name to the Tennesee Cherubs or Seraphim or something.


"Jesus" does play for a team, and they are called the Saints......................

Double Barrel
08-03-2007, 11:02 AM
Vince Young can turn a cheese sandwich into a GRILLED cheese sandwitch by using his MIND.

Shoooot, you underestimate The Greatness. He can take a cow and a field of wheat and turn it into a grilled cheese sandwish with just the left side of his brain. The right side will be too busy curing cancer and solving the conflicts in the Middle East.....and all that is just between plays.

Blazing Arrow
08-03-2007, 11:24 AM
He also raps ....

Overalls
08-03-2007, 04:30 PM
He also raps ....

Does he own any pit bulls?

Blazing Arrow
08-03-2007, 04:46 PM
Does he own any pit bulls?

Well he owns Bulls

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/avatars/blue.php.gif.jpg

not sure if that counts. :hmmm:

Silver Oak
08-03-2007, 04:51 PM
Well he owns Bulls

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/avatars/blue.php.gif.jpg

not sure if that counts. :hmmm:

and that helped propel the titans.....to being home for the playoffs.

memo to vy: if you're gonna be a winner, learn to win the games that count the most.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/kenandsherin/vycrying.jpg

TexanSam
08-03-2007, 04:55 PM
and that helped propel the titans.....to being home for the playoffs.

memo to vy: if you're gonna be a winner, learn to win the games that count the most.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/kenandsherin/vycrying.jpg

We should use this photo and make a "Caption This" thread..

Overalls
08-03-2007, 04:55 PM
and that helped propel the titans.....to being home for the playoffs.

memo to vy: if you're gonna be a winner, learn to win the games that count the most.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/kenandsherin/vycrying.jpg

You shouldn't show that pic of Vince crying. It will hurt his rep and the next backup DB that he slaps like a girl might actually hit back.

TEXANRED
08-03-2007, 05:38 PM
Like the words came right off my keyboard.



Unless you were referencing the SB the Titans were in??? I would imagine you would not be so bold until at least your team has a .500 season and that would be a stretch.

Maybe you get that response because it is true? Dropped balls, poorly run routes, and not having a sense of the field also hurts the QB throwing to the receiver.

And McClown is crap. To put him in the same sentence as Vince Young drops your credibility. Plus again you got back to a rookie year to scrape the barrel on your stats and a second year guy. Most people will tell you that a WR really does not step into form until his third season. I mean Boldin only played in 10 games that season???

You mean the super bowl team that had the majority of there players that were drafted and played as Houston Oilers? Is that the team you speak of?

I forgot Kurt Warner did beat that team. Played like crap since, but he did beat that team.

I am not sure where you are getting the referencing thing from. I wasn't referencing anyone.

Oh and lets see, Josh McCown, big arm, athletic, as smart as a box of rocks and cant throw the ball to open receivers, sounds like VY to me.

TEXANRED
08-03-2007, 05:47 PM
And Tony Boswell is on you .... who do you think recovered faster as an organization? Not really seeing any of your points so far.

You guys had a good off-season you should try working that angle maybe?

Of course once we sign Rice that will be a moot point but you have a day or so ..... :woot2
Its like you are speaking in code. I am not following the logic of your responses.

Two-tone and I were not talking about the Texans but disputing who lays claim to Chris Chandler. Which belongs to the Oilers, which belongs to the Titans.

Follow the conversation if you are going to respond please.

2ToneBlue
08-03-2007, 06:06 PM
Man I missed out on some fun...

I won't post pictures of Texans after their losses, just wouldn't be fair, on top of the fact this has nothing to do with the VY fight :pirate:

Oh heck why not join in the fun, this is the Indy game I believe. Isn't is great to have the ability to make up cleaver names and catchy phrases in order to hide the pain of the entire season?

Edit: seems board doesn't like the image or link (maybe too long or something puts asterisk)

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2005/writers/don_banks/12/27/race.bush/p1_bu****exans.jpg

Brando
08-03-2007, 06:12 PM
Man I missed out on some fun...

I won't post pictures of Texans after their losses, just wouldn't be fair, on top of the fact this has nothing to do with the VY fight :pirate:

Oh heck why not join in the fun, this is the Indy game I believe. Isn't is great to have the ability to make up cleaver names and catchy phrases in order to hide the pain of the entire season?

Edit: seems board doesn't like the image or link (maybe too long or something puts asterisk)

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2005/writers/don_banks/12/27/race.bush/p1_bu****exans.jpg

Try using image not quote............

http://www.maj.com/gallery/soonerpsycho/Fark/throwslikeunclerico2.gif

2ToneBlue
08-03-2007, 06:16 PM
Thank you but I think it's due to the naming of the file. Doesn't like Bush and Texas together...Strange though.

i.a.cnn.net/si/2005/writers/don_banks/12/27/race.bush/p1_bu****exans.jpg

I think I see how, bu (sh _t) exans taken out (not it's not an I either it's an underscore)

Blazing Arrow
08-03-2007, 07:25 PM
I forgot Kurt Warner did beat that team. Played like crap since, but he did beat that team.

Seriosuly did you actually watch football during the time Warner played? I am not even sure I should point out hte obvious that he played in a super bowl two years later or the fact he went to the playoffs in '01. Three time pro-bowler. Oh yeah I forgot winning, playoffs, and Super Bowl do not concern the Texans organization.

Oh and lets see, Josh McCown, big arm, athletic, as smart as a box of rocks and cant throw the ball to open receivers, sounds like VY to me.

You realize Vince Young looks like this right?

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u13/BlazingArrow24/young1.jpg

no like this guy ... who would more compare to McClown

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u13/BlazingArrow24/game_copy1.jpg

Blazing Arrow
08-03-2007, 07:28 PM
Its like you are speaking in code. I am not following the logic of your responses.

Two-tone and I were not talking about the Texans but disputing who lays claim to Chris Chandler. Which belongs to the Oilers, which belongs to the Titans.

Follow the conversation if you are going to respond please.

It maybe tough for you to understand, I can see that with your responses regarding Warner and the whole WR thing, but at times conversations break off and go a different direction. ADD is no joke man .... being able to follow two conversations at once maybe tough but I am sure you can do it. Just re-read the post slowly it will sink in.

2ToneBlue
08-03-2007, 07:30 PM
Figure I'd host myself :whip:

Gotta admit, clean yet cleaver.
http://www.badden.com/texans.jpg

Blazing Arrow
08-03-2007, 07:35 PM
and that helped propel the titans.....to being home for the playoffs.

memo to vy: if you're gonna be a winner, learn to win the games that count the most.

If he had lost either of the games against the Moos that game would not have even mattered. What did it cost NE? There shot at the super bowl because of 1st team injuries in a meaningless game.

So yeah he did not win that particular game but each was as important as the other.

How did the Texans fair against NE last season? ... I forgot ....

Overalls
08-03-2007, 10:58 PM
I'm listening to VY now on NFL network and uh and uh and uh you know, you know. I can see how he made a 6 on an IQ test. You know.

Wolf
08-03-2007, 11:00 PM
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums//showthread.php?t=40279


what hurts more VY or Pacman

Double Barrel
08-03-2007, 11:06 PM
What is "Rory Raccoon"? :um:

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u13/BlazingArrow24/game_copy1.jpg

TEXANRED
08-04-2007, 12:53 AM
It maybe tough for you to understand, I can see that with your responses regarding Warner and the whole WR thing, but at times conversations break off and go a different direction. ADD is no joke man .... being able to follow two conversations at once maybe tough but I am sure you can do it. Just re-read the post slowly it will sink in.

Now who is ADD? You are talking about the Kurt Warner that played for the Rams -vs- the Kurt Warner that got cut from the Giants and lost his starting job in Arizona.

Unless your trying to tell me that Boldin and Fitz somehow got into a time machine, hit Tory Holt and Isaac Bruce knocking them out, stole there uniforms, and played in the super bowl. B/C the Kurt Warner I saw that had Fitz and Boldin as his receivers stunk up the place.

I didn't say anything about looks, I was talking about matching descriptions.

That guy with a black eye, I don't know who that is, he is not a Texan.

Blazing Arrow
08-04-2007, 01:43 AM
Now who is ADD? You are talking about the Kurt Warner that played for the Rams -vs- the Kurt Warner that got cut from the Giants and lost his starting job in Arizona.

Aren't "they" the same person?

Players have good years players have bad years. The loss in the last super bowl was crushing to Warner. It was like NE cracked the code on the guy and every DC saw on TV with 500 cameras staring down on him.

I compare Warner to a knuckle ball pitcher. Give him some receivers and some time with a decent line and the guy will cut certain D's apart. But if the DC holds and stays focused they can crack Warner.

Greatest show on turf is weak? Just saying that sounds silly.

He started late in his career shined for a while and then started to show age from all of those arean league games. The guy is 36 now. I am not saying he is great but people will remember Warner.

No one will remember a QB on the current roster of the Texans.

Seriously Schaub is a stretch IMO. He might make a nice fit if Green has some steam but if Green goes down the Texans O will die under Dayne.

Unless your trying to tell me that Boldin and Fitz somehow got into a time machine, hit Tory Holt and Isaac Bruce knocking them out, stole there uniforms, and played in the super bowl. B/C the Kurt Warner I saw that had Fitz and Boldin as his receivers stunk up the place.

I think he cut his beard ... but still the same person. :redface:

I didn't say anything about looks, I was talking about matching descriptions.

That guy with a black eye, I don't know who that is, he is not a Texan.

I was just making sure you knew who Vince Young was. I was not talking about looks either.

So lets take a look at your "comparison" [if the word is used very roughly]

You say Vince Young:

8-5 as a starter

Greatest comeback victory by a rookie in NFL history

Most rushing yard by a rookie QB in NFL history

Took a team that had lost its franchise QB through lockout in an ugly battle that eventually sent him to the Titans biggest rival. Titans - Baltimore [I have heard rumors they take our soiled jerseys and that is why they are that stained purple color:secret:]

A 6 game winning streak

All of this with the #32/32 ranked defense

Playing in the same division and the Super Bowl champs a team that we beat and took down to a 1 point lead before losing. The Titans actually outscored the Colts over the season.

Playing with two receivers that were his #1 and #2 that are now playing #3 spots on their current teams.

all of that you compare to:

A 3rd round draft pick

Struggled to pass more TDs then INTs even with two of the best WR in the game right now.

Perennial backup ...

You do not draft your starting QB in the 3rd round if you expect to win a Super Bowl ..... :crazy:

Matt Schaub #8 | Quarterback | Houston Texans Roster:
Height: 6-5 Weight: 237
Born: Jun 25, 1981 - Pittsburgh, PA
College: Virginia
Draft: 2004 - 3rd round (27th pick) by the Atlanta Falcons
Pass Yds TD Yds/Game QB Rating
208 1 41.6 71.2

:um:

Blazing Arrow
08-04-2007, 01:57 AM
What is "Rory Raccoon"? :um:

The picture is care of PitBull on goTitans ... its one of my better Carr ones so I gotta give it one last plug.

Carr Bombed
08-04-2007, 02:02 AM
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u13/BlazingArrow24/game_copy1.jpg

LMFAO!!!! Thats funny as hell.lol:

Theres only one problem though........... When the post-season rolled around Carr was nowhere to be found........

Double Barrel
08-04-2007, 07:55 AM
You do not draft your starting QB in the 3rd round if you expect to win a Super Bowl ..... :crazy:

What's wrong with getting drafted in the 3rd round and winning Super Bowls?

Signed,

Joe Montana

p.s. Tom Brady & Mark Rypien were both 6th rounders

The Dream
08-04-2007, 11:27 AM
a lot of times I say things like "VY is God" just to piss his haters off...it's so funny, because had this been Matt Schaub we'd all be applauding his leadership...... it's weird how so many people hate the guy as if he raped and pissed on one of their relatives....I don't buy the "he's a titan and I'm a texan that's why I hate him" because there's plenty of other people on the titans who don't receive half that hatred that VY does from this board....let me go down the list of why it's stupid to blindly hate this guy

A. He came out and said "I want to be Texan", "I love Houston", "I want to play and win superbowl for my hometown who has never won anything in the NFL".....he layed himself out there for the taking like a cheap prostitute, but the texans still passed............. hatred towards our organization is a little more logical in this instance

B. He seems like a "good" guy in the sense that he always gives back, is nice to fans, loves his family, loves his hometown, loves his teammates, and works hard to get better each year

C. He is from Houston..........I'm sorry but if you're a Houston sports fan then you LOVE professional sports players from Houston....we loved Clyde when he was a blazer, we loved Pettite and Clemens when they weren't here (before this past offseason), we loved Dickerson, etc...we've always rooted for and supported "our own" so why should it be any different with VY?


People need to just come face to the fact that if you're a bitter fan who hopes VY fails, gets injured, etc. you are just MAD at the fact that he is not in a Texans uniform and for some reason you take it out on him, because you don't want to look like a "bad" fan for being pissed at the real problem in this situation.......my honest opinion of Vince is that he's an extremely gifted talent who has shown great poise, patience, intelligence, and a die hard will to win....sure he can work on some of his QB mechanics, but is there really any doubting that the guy will eventually do it considering he's gotten better at every level and his track record of working hard in the offseason? We just have to come to grips that this organization made a huge mistake by passing on him and we shouldn't hold it against him, because of their bad decision.

The Dream
08-04-2007, 11:43 AM
I'm listening to VY now on NFL network and uh and uh and uh you know, you know. I can see how he made a 6 on an IQ test. You know


stuff like this makes me think that some of you guys hatred comes from straight up "cism"...yes the dreaded "R" word....to judge a man's intelligence because he doesn't speak "proper" english makes you look like the *****.....where does this "VY is as dumb as a brick" talk come from...... he seems like an intelligent guy on the field, I don't know what kind of grades he made, but even if he didn't have a 4.0 GPA nobody on this board knows what kind of grades he made in all of his classes........I find it offensive when people say retarded **** like this.

Overalls
08-04-2007, 11:58 AM
One thing I noticed about training camp today is that our QBs don't wear red Jerseys in practice. A lot of teams have their QBs do it so they won't get hit. I can understand the Titans have vy do it since their players may have a hard time understanding what the #s on the jerseys mean with out taking their shoes off. There were some hard hits going on out there today.

I wonder how the touch football practice is going in TENNhead land.

:fans:

Texan_Bill
08-04-2007, 01:07 PM
Well I finally got to see the actual clip of VY smacking the DB the other night. It's nice to know that if my girlfriend ever gets into a tussle with another chick, VY could have her back...

Blazing Arrow
08-04-2007, 01:49 PM
One thing I noticed about training camp today is that our QBs don't wear red Jerseys in practice.


I would guess that is an attempt to get Shammy up to speed on being sacked 40+ times this season. You would not want him to red shirt then actually face a real rush on his O-line and get shell shocked.

Give you this the new coaches are thinking ahead.

Silver Oak
08-04-2007, 02:17 PM
You do not draft your starting QB in the 3rd round if you expect to win a Super Bowl ..... :crazy:


There are quite a few high picked qb's who never panned out in the NFL. Your argument is baseless.

btw...you seem to be selective on which vy stats you post. didn't you forget his 50.1% completion rate (worst in the NFL) and his throwing more int's than td's?

Texan_Bill
08-04-2007, 02:28 PM
You do not draft your starting QB in the 3rd round if you expect to win a Super Bowl .....

Signed,

6th rounder Tom Brady and the New England Patriots.

Overalls
08-04-2007, 02:29 PM
I would guess that is an attempt to get Shammy up to speed on being sacked 40+ times this season. You would not want him to red shirt then actually face a real rush on his O-line and get shell shocked.

Give you this the new coaches are thinking ahead.

Another thing I noticed on the NFL Network show on the Titans last night was that if the Defense was allowed to touch vy he would have been sacked on about half his throws.

:fans:

I also liked this quote about the Titans.

By Tom Curran
NBCSports.com Updated: Aug02, 2007, 04:47 PM EDT

I've gone to three training camps so far and have eight left to visit. But I can already say with confidence that the nastiest camp of all is going to be the Tennessee Titans.

While I was in Tennessee Sunday and Monday, bodies crashed, tempers flared and expletives flew. Even in shorts, helmets and shoulder pads ("shells" to you football-talkin' folk) the Titans camp is just this side of mayhem.

They might not know how to play football, but it looks like it's because they don't know what they are doing in camp.

Blazing Arrow
08-04-2007, 04:22 PM
There are quite a few high picked qb's who never panned out in the NFL. Your argument is baseless.

btw...you seem to be selective on which vy stats you post. didn't you forget his 50.1% completion rate (worst in the NFL) and his throwing more int's than td's?


That still gives no argument for selecting a 3rd rounder going ot the Super Bowl.

Yes Montana and Brady are on different calabers of player. They have that leadership and get it done style of play that is hard to scout. BUt lets be honest here and look at the most recent Super Bowl QBs and leaders in passing at the QB position ...

1. Farve '91 2nd
2. Elway '83 1st
3. P. Manning '98 1st
4. Aikman '89 1st
5. Kelly ' 83 1st
6. Esiason '84 2nd
7. McNair '95 1st
8. Grossman '03 1st
9. Roethlisberger '04 1st
10. McNabb '99 1st

Allot of SB winning QBs in that group all selected pre 3rd round. Care to give me a list 10 SB Qbs since 1985 (a 22 year span) who were 3rd or below?

Silver Oak
08-04-2007, 04:44 PM
That still gives no argument for selecting a 3rd rounder going ot the Super Bowl.

Yes Montana and Brady are on different calabers of player. They have that leadership and get it done style of play that is hard to scout. BUt lets be honest here and look at the most recent Super Bowl QBs and leaders in passing at the QB position ...

1. Farve '91 2nd
2. Elway '83 1st
3. P. Manning '98 1st
4. Aikman '89 1st
5. Kelly ' 83 1st
6. Esiason '84 2nd
7. McNair '95 1st
8. Grossman '03 1st
9. Roethlisberger '04 1st
10. McNabb '99 1st

Allot of SB winning QBs in that group all selected pre 3rd round. Care to give me a list 10 SB Qbs since 1985 (a 22 year span) who were 3rd or below?

No, but I will tell you I just passed gas and it smelled alot like the upcoming season for the titans. :)

Brando
08-04-2007, 05:15 PM
That still gives no argument for selecting a 3rd rounder going ot the Super Bowl.

Yes Montana and Brady are on different calabers of player. They have that leadership and get it done style of play that is hard to scout. BUt lets be honest here and look at the most recent Super Bowl QBs and leaders in passing at the QB position ...

1. Farve '91 2nd
2. Elway '83 1st
3. P. Manning '98 1st
4. Aikman '89 1st
5. Kelly ' 83 1st
6. Esiason '84 2nd
7. McNair '95 1st
8. Grossman '03 1st
9. Roethlisberger '04 1st
10. McNabb '99 1st

Allot of SB winning QBs in that group all selected pre 3rd round. Care to give me a list 10 SB Qbs since 1985 (a 22 year span) who were 3rd or below?

1.Matt Hasselback Round 6
2.Tom Brady Round 6
3.Joe Montana Round 3
4.Brad Johnson Round 9
5.Rich Gannon Round 4
6.Chris Chandler Round 3
7.Mark Rypien Round 6
8.Stan Humphries Round 6
9.Neil O'Donnell Round 3
10.Jeff Hostetler Round 3

:wild:

TEXANRED
08-04-2007, 06:13 PM
That still gives no argument for selecting a 3rd rounder going ot the Super Bowl.

Yes Montana and Brady are on different calabers of player. They have that leadership and get it done style of play that is hard to scout. BUt lets be honest here and look at the most recent Super Bowl QBs and leaders in passing at the QB position ...

1. Farve '91 2nd
2. Elway '83 1st
3. P. Manning '98 1st
4. Aikman '89 1st
5. Kelly ' 83 1st
6. Esiason '84 2nd
7. McNair '95 1st
8. Grossman '03 1st
9. Roethlisberger '04 1st
10. McNabb '99 1st

Allot of SB winning QBs in that group all selected pre 3rd round. Care to give me a list 10 SB Qbs since 1985 (a 22 year span) who were 3rd or below?

1 David Carr
2 Joey Harrington
3 Ryan Leaf
4 Jeff George
5 Dan McGwire
6 Patrick Ramsey
7 Aaron Rogers
8 Heath Shuler
9 Akili Smith
10 Rick Mirer

The list continues......................

And M Shadows answered your other question.

ChildressTitanMan
08-04-2007, 08:23 PM
Another thing I noticed on the NFL Network show on the Titans last night was that if the Defense was allowed to touch vy he would have been sacked on about half his throws.

:fans:

I also liked this quote about the Titans.

By Tom Curran
NBCSports.com Updated: Aug02, 2007, 04:47 PM EDT

I've gone to three training camps so far and have eight left to visit. But I can already say with confidence that the nastiest camp of all is going to be the Tennessee Titans.

While I was in Tennessee Sunday and Monday, bodies crashed, tempers flared and expletives flew. Even in shorts, helmets and shoulder pads ("shells" to you football-talkin' folk) the Titans camp is just this side of mayhem.


They might not know how to play football, but it looks like it's because they don't know what they are doing in camp.

I like how you sidestep the fact that this comment was meant as a good thing.

I'll lay odds that Shammy will run for more yards than VY this year,your problem is that all of those yards will be behind the line of scrimmage. He will be the face for Kroger.

The Pencil Neck
08-04-2007, 08:49 PM
1.Matt Hasselback Round 6
2.Tom Brady Round 6
3.Joe Montana Round 3
4.Brad Johnson Round 9
5.Rich Gannon Round 4
6.Chris Chandler Round 3
7.Mark Rypien Round 6
8.Stan Humphries Round 6
9.Neil O'Donnell Round 3
10.Jeff Hostetler Round 3

:wild:


You left out Delhomme and Kurt Warner, both UDFA's.

The Pencil Neck
08-04-2007, 09:41 PM
Allot of SB winning QBs in that group all selected pre 3rd round. Care to give me a list 10 SB Qbs since 1985 (a 22 year span) who were 3rd or below?

Here's a more complete answer:

Since the 1985 season, the winner of the SB has been a #1 or #2 pick 13 times, 3+ 8 times, and an UDFA 1 time. The loser of the SB has been a #1/#2 pick 15 times, 3+ 5 times, and an UDFA 2 times.

Number one picks have faced off 7 times. 4 times, both QB's were drafted in the 3rd or less. 6 times, someone drafted in the 3rd round (or worse) has beaten a #1 or #2 pick.

QB's by round (if someone sees a mistake, let me know):

FIRST: Manning, Grossman, Roethlisberger, McNabb, Dilfer, Collins, McNair, Elway, Bledsoe, Aikman, Young, Kelly, Simms, McMahon, Eason, Williams.

SECOND: Favre, Esiason

THIRD: Hostetler, Montana, O'Donnell, Chandler

FOURTH: Gannon

SIXTH: Hasselbeck, Brady, Humphries, Rypien

NINTH: Johnson

UDFA: Delhomme, Warner

infantrycak
08-04-2007, 09:56 PM
Chandler was a 3rd not a 1st.

Gannon 4th round.

O'Donnell 3rd round.

Young is an odd inclusion in any draft argument given his route to the NFL and eventual success there.

Tony Eason and Trent Dilfer as examples of QB success--hmmm.

The Pencil Neck
08-04-2007, 10:16 PM
Chandler was a 3rd not a 1st.

Gannon 4th round.

O'Donnell 3rd round.

Tony Eason and Trent Dilfer as examples of QB success--hmmm.

Thanks. I had Gannon and O'Donnell right on my spreadsheet and missed them when I made the list at the end.

I don't know why I thought Chandler was a 1st rounder.

I was thinking about making some first rounders have asterisks if they weren't with the team that drafted them originally but decided not to.

infantrycak
08-04-2007, 10:18 PM
Also omitted Doug Williams 1st rounder.

Good effort, but isn't the overall conclusion the same it is for the draft generally--you can make it and will have to make it at times with players from all over the draft but if you examine one position, you are overall going to get better results from higher draft picks?

The Pencil Neck
08-04-2007, 10:23 PM
Young is an odd inclusion in any draft argument given his route to the NFL and eventual success there.

Tony Eason and Trent Dilfer as examples of QB success--hmmm.

There was Young and Kelly who came in via the USFL.

Then, you've got Young, Collins, Dilfer, and of course Elway who weren't with the teams that originally drafted them when they got to the SB.

I'm tempted to take this back all the way to SB 1.

infantrycak
08-04-2007, 10:27 PM
There was Young and Kelly who came in via the USFL.

Young has three oddities going for him--(1) USFL, (2) being traded/not being with the drafting team and (3) sitting behind a hall of fame QB for four years under the tutelage of a hall of fame coach to inherit a Super Bowl team. What would Young have been like without #3?

The Pencil Neck
08-04-2007, 10:28 PM
Also omitted Doug Williams 1st rounder.

Good effort, but isn't the overall conclusion the same it is for the draft generally--you can make it and will have to make it at times with players from all over the draft but if you examine one position, you are overall going to get better results from higher draft picks?

I had Williams as a first when I was counting but left him off the list at the end.

Personally, I had no interest in the argument about QB's and draft position. I just found the information itself interesting.

Players are selected in the first round because someone thinks that they're talented AND that they'll fill a need. Usually those people are right but sometimes they're wrong. Sometimes a guy drops for reasons out of his control that have nothing to do with how he plays. Sometimes a guy just needs to be in the right place at the right time. As long as a guy can play, I really don't care where he's drafted but I'm not going to hold it against a guy if he's drafted in the first round, either.

infantrycak
08-04-2007, 10:32 PM
Honestly, I haven't read back thru the whole thread for whatever silly draft generalization argument may have been going on--seem to have been several lately. Thought your post was interesting but there were a couple nits to pick. Agree with your last post--bottom line, does the guy play football.

Brando
08-05-2007, 12:46 PM
You left out Delhomme and Kurt Warner, both UDFA's.

Thanks, even better. The fact is, it doesn't matter where you are drafted if you have a good team around the QB and the QB does not lose the game for you. You do not have to invest a high draft pick in a QB to go to the SB.

Teamwork and leadership can go a long way.

brakos82
08-05-2007, 08:56 PM
You left out Delhomme and Kurt Warner, both UDFA's.

and Warren Moon. He went to the CFL. :wild:

The Pencil Neck
08-05-2007, 09:10 PM
and Warren Moon. He went to the CFL. :wild:

We were talking about Super Bowl QB's. Moon is, unfortunately, not on that list.

Blazing Arrow
08-06-2007, 01:48 AM
Here's a more complete answer:

Since the 1985 season, the winner of the SB has been a #1 or #2 pick 13 times, 3+ 8 times, and an UDFA 1 time. The loser of the SB has been a #1/#2 pick 15 times, 3+ 5 times, and an UDFA 2 times.

Number one picks have faced off 7 times. 4 times, both QB's were drafted in the 3rd or less. 6 times, someone drafted in the 3rd round (or worse) has beaten a #1 or #2 pick.

QB's by round (if someone sees a mistake, let me know):

FIRST: Manning, Grossman, Roethlisberger, McNabb, Dilfer, Collins, McNair, Elway, Bledsoe, Aikman, Young, Kelly, Simms, McMahon, Eason, Williams.

SECOND: Favre, Esiason

THIRD: Hostetler, Montana, O'Donnell, Chandler

FOURTH: Gannon

SIXTH: Hasselbeck, Brady, Humphries, Rypien

NINTH: Johnson

UDFA: Delhomme, Warner

Nice work my question was baited but and expected someone to come out with the players .....

I was going to then list another 5 QBs in my favor and ask for "round 2" but the wife took most of the weekend .... so ......