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Errant Hothy
07-31-2007, 03:42 PM
July 31, 2007
Mario dominates after getting angry in practice
Defensive end Mario Williams didn't have a particularly good practice on Monday, and defensive line coach Jethro Franklin let him know about it.

During Tuesday's morning practice, Williams got angry and took it out on the offensive linemen. He dominated on six consecutive plays.

http://blogs.chron.com/sportsupdate/archives/2007/07/mario_dominates.html

Another thing that has brought a smile to my face today.

DBCooper
07-31-2007, 03:44 PM
http://blogs.chron.com/sportsupdate/archives/2007/07/mario_dominates.html

Another thing that has brought a smile to my face today.

We all need to find a way to make Mario mad before every game. lol

V3rm0nt3r
07-31-2007, 03:44 PM
Good

Now we just have to insult him every time he steps on the field

gtexan02
07-31-2007, 03:45 PM
Great news that when he wants to, he can dominate.

Read between the lines and you can still sense his lack of effort and work ethic. I just heard on 610 this afternoon that the coaches were really disapointed with his effort the last practice

Honoring Earl 34
07-31-2007, 03:46 PM
We all need to find a way to make Mario mad before every game. lol

Mario ... your car is the devil .

My car is not the devil .... ggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr .

Errant Hothy
07-31-2007, 03:47 PM
Good

Now we just have to insult him every time he steps on the field

Borrow the J'ville bit and have the little, white trainer slap him a few times across the face before each game?

Fiddy
07-31-2007, 03:48 PM
So Mario has to get pissed before he plays...that's great news.

V3rm0nt3r
07-31-2007, 03:49 PM
Borrow the J'ville bit and have the little, white trainer slap him a few times across the face before each game?

excelent idea
works for Henderson why not Williams.

Errant Hothy
07-31-2007, 03:51 PM
So Mario has to get pissed before he plays...that's great news.

I wouldn't neccesarily go that far. It was just nice to see that Mario was able to dominate on severl consecutive plays.

I also think alot of NFL players play better when they are angery, what Mario really needs to do is find a way to channel that energy every Sunday morning. I think it's a youth thing more then anyting.

Unless all that said jokingly, I have a hard time with the tone of posts when there are no smilies.

V3rm0nt3r
07-31-2007, 03:52 PM
I wouldn't neccesarily go that far. It was just nice to see that Mario was able to dominate on severl consecutive plays.

I also think alot of NFL players play better when they are angery, what Mario really needs to do is find a way to channel that energy every Sunday morning. I think it's a youth thing more then anyting.

Like The Water Boy.

Double Barrel
07-31-2007, 03:52 PM
Somebody please tape a copy of the Madden '08 cover to his locker before every game.

Hopefully he can get fired up before every game on his own. Getting mad is not the most consistent method of motivation, simply because he won't be able to keep up his anger level for three hours on gameday.

At least we've got coaches now that aren't afraid to call out players instead of coddling them because of draft position.

Hookem Horns
07-31-2007, 03:52 PM
Tear up his car like they did in Fast Times at Ridgemont High.

Fiddy
07-31-2007, 03:55 PM
Unless all that said jokingly, I have a hard time with tone of posts when there are no smilies. Yeah, my post was saracastic, forgot to put the roll eyes thing in there...

Errant Hothy
07-31-2007, 03:57 PM
Yeah, my post was saracastic, forgot to put the roll eyes thing in there...

Honestly I thought as much, I think we've had this issue before.

Honoring Earl 34
07-31-2007, 03:59 PM
I wouldn't neccesarily go that far. It was just nice to see that Mario was able to dominate on severl consecutive plays.

I also think alot of NFL players play better when they are angery, what Mario really needs to do is find a way to channel that energy every Sunday morning. I think it's a youth thing more then anyting.

Unless all that said jokingly, I have a hard time with tone of posts when there are no smilies.

We're dealing with that potential thing , which he has a lot of . If Mario decides or figures out how to turn it on ... then he can be dominant .

I read a book on Butkus and he swore that he was'nt a mean guy . Dick was obssessed with being a great football player and learned that being feared made him a much better player . So Mario get feared .

real
07-31-2007, 04:00 PM
I think it's a youth thing more then anyting.

I don't.

Some people just don't have that natural tenacity.

Doesn't mean he can't be successful otherwise, but it's better that a player doesn't play with anger anyways. It takes a lot of energy to be angry and also you don't think as well....

It's cool to unleash it sparingly, but I'd rather have a player with a nasty demeanor who plays with a level head....

Sorta like Meco...Well exactly like Meco...

ccdude730
07-31-2007, 04:00 PM
captain insano shows no mercy

alphajoker
07-31-2007, 04:04 PM
Great news that when he wants to, he can dominate.

Read between the lines and you can still sense his lack of effort and work ethic. I just heard on 610 this afternoon that the coaches were really disapointed with his effort the last practice

Yeah, that's why he took out his anger today because the coaches called him out yesterday.

Porky
07-31-2007, 04:05 PM
Here's a recent picture of Mario on the sidelines getting a drink -

http://www.cnn.com/SHOWBIZ/Movies/9811/11/water.boy/waterboy.jpg

mexican_texan
07-31-2007, 04:09 PM
She's not the devil! She's the most beautiful woman in the world!

HoustonFrog
07-31-2007, 04:11 PM
Sorry, someone has to play Devil's Advocate......."so the overall #1 pick needs someone pushing his buttons to get ready to play? Shouldn't he be peeved everyday" :)

Errant Hothy
07-31-2007, 04:14 PM
I don't.

Some people just don't have that natural tenacity.

Doesn't mean he can't be successful otherwise, but it's better that a player doesn't play with anger anyways. It takes a lot of energy to be angry and also you don't think as well....

It's cool to unleash it sparingly, but I'd rather have a player with a nasty demeanor who plays with a level head....

Sorta like Meco...Well exactly like Meco...

I dunno know, I never learned how to focus anger and determination untill I was in college. As a kid I was still trying to be nice to everybody, untill I realised that people were stepping on me because of it.

Somebody of Mario's talent may never have really needed to reach deep down for that little extra till he got here.

We shall see.

HuttoKarl
07-31-2007, 04:14 PM
I guess they should send him insulting text messages from the "opposing QB" leading up to game day every week.

mario...u sml like poop luv VY

mario...u r fat <3 brees

mario...sack deez ntz luv P-man

Errant Hothy
07-31-2007, 04:16 PM
I guess they should send him insulting text messages from the "opposing QB" leading up to game day every week.

mario...u sml like poop luv VY

mario...u r fat <3 brees

mario...sack deez ntz luv P-man

Nicely done, sir.

Just make sure Mario gets a sponorship deal for his Sidekick before he starts chunking them through the locker room walls.

Vinny
07-31-2007, 04:20 PM
perhaps we can shuttle TJ and Okoye this season and let them bring Mario some ice to put on his head in the huddles between plays.

Honoring Earl 34
07-31-2007, 04:24 PM
She's not the devil! She's the most beautiful woman in the world!

http://www.allmoviephoto.com/photo/fairuza_balk_adam_sandler_the_waterboy_001.html

Elle was the inspiration for Vicky Valencourt . She works on lawn tractors all the time .

ObsiWan
07-31-2007, 04:27 PM
like I keep sayin', the kid needs a little more Deacon Jones in him...
:wild:

Texans34Life
07-31-2007, 04:38 PM
So Mario has to get pissed before he plays...that's great news.

Ok, now let's show him Vince and Reggie's picture before each game so he can dominate...

hobie
07-31-2007, 04:43 PM
He can do it...He can do it all night long !!!!

BeerTastesLikeVictory
07-31-2007, 04:51 PM
he just needs some tackling fuel

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
07-31-2007, 05:00 PM
"Subway sucks! Quiznos rules!"


Mario Williams angry mode *ON*

Maddict5
07-31-2007, 05:07 PM
like the rest of us i liked reading this but somebody should get angry at salaam.. 6 consec plays!

JDizzle
07-31-2007, 05:10 PM
Just make him watch the Astros every night ... the anger that comes from doing that alone can bring down mountains.

2BCF
07-31-2007, 06:18 PM
delay his direct-deposit until after he sacks a QB.

that should get him moving.

real
07-31-2007, 06:20 PM
delay his direct-deposit until after he sacks a QB.

that should get him moving.

lol

Runner
07-31-2007, 06:21 PM
Yeah, my post was saracastic, forgot to put the roll eyes thing in there...

I thought it was well said. Without sarcasm.

brakos82
07-31-2007, 07:55 PM
He's right, not enough smilies...

:splits: :texflag: :d: :tease: :astros: :doot:

There...

ObsiWan
07-31-2007, 08:45 PM
Just make him watch the Astros every night ... the anger that comes from doing that alone can bring down mountains.

Look, this isn't a thread about Cruel and Inhumane punishment... We just want him to get fired up not lose his mind.

you're a sick person
:)

Wolf
07-31-2007, 08:45 PM
like I keep sayin', the kid needs a little more Deacon Jones in him...
:wild:

not sure, after drafting TJ, he said DJ was his idol and wanted to play like him... well we are still waiting for TJ to just ....play

ObsiWan
07-31-2007, 08:48 PM
not sure, after drafting TJ, he said DJ was his idol and wanted to play like him... well we are still waiting for TJ to just ....play

He's obviously failing miserably. Deacon Jones could probably outplay TJ right now.

alphajoker
07-31-2007, 08:54 PM
See how mad he really got...about a third of the way, they show a play where he just throws down somebody. I think it might have been Winston at RT.

http://www.houstontexans.com/tv/

barberman
07-31-2007, 10:17 PM
What ever it takes to get the Man to play up to his potential needs to be done on a daily basis. Keep Mario "foaming at the mouth" and we will make the Playoff sooner rather than later.

The Pencil Neck
07-31-2007, 10:33 PM
See how mad he really got...about a third of the way, they show a play where he just throws down somebody. I think it might have been Winston at RT.

http://www.houstontexans.com/tv/

That was pretty sick.

Pantherstang84
07-31-2007, 10:51 PM
mario...ur still 2nd choice..RB

JamesC
08-01-2007, 01:12 AM
Its nice he did it on the practice field, but I want to see him do it in a game.

ObsiWan
08-01-2007, 01:47 AM
mario...ur still 2nd choice..RB

Not for me.

Malloy
08-01-2007, 05:04 AM
I'm just happy that the guys are in pads already :)

beerlover
08-01-2007, 12:46 PM
it was never wise to piss off Reggie White :bowser:

the Texans, his linemates & Mario need to develop a program (utilize training camp for this) that increases their intensity on a consistant basis fostering a game time attitude that fosters his mean streak to appear in critical game situations :highfive:

Double Barrel
08-01-2007, 12:48 PM
I suppose at the end of the day it is good to know that Mario at least has it in him, regardless of what it takes to get it out.

Hopefully the coaches are in his face every Sunday morning to motivate him to greatness. It definitely justifies the means to an end in this case.

hobie
08-01-2007, 01:06 PM
That's where a great former player would have been a a great coach. Like a Singletary, his presence alone makes other players better, and his knowledge of the game and what it takes to dominate are invaluable...The Texans need to find someone like that to add to the staff..

The Pencil Neck
08-01-2007, 01:19 PM
That's where a great former player would have been a a great coach. Like a Singletary, his presence alone makes other players better, and his knowledge of the game and what it takes to dominate are invaluable...The Texans need to find someone like that to add to the staff..

Yeah, too bad Singletary is with the Niners. I'd love him to coach our LB's.

hobie
08-01-2007, 01:21 PM
Yeah, too bad Singletary is with the Niners. I'd love him to coach our LB's.

Coach the LB's, shoot, DL, DB...his presence alone would or should get these guys fired up, more so when he gets in thier faces..maybe Kubes can talk TJ out of the ESPN offices..

HuttoKarl
08-01-2007, 01:27 PM
See how mad he really got...about a third of the way, they show a play where he just throws down somebody. I think it might have been Winston at RT.

http://www.houstontexans.com/tv/


And 2/3rds thru, Morlon Greenwood abso-smurfly crushed a WR on a dump pass.

real
08-01-2007, 01:31 PM
Morlon says he added 5 lbs of muscle and has become more physical...

I'm one of the biggest Morlon detractors, but I will remain optimistic and hope that he truly has found a way to turn up the aggression and down hill play like Demeco...

real
08-01-2007, 01:46 PM
See how mad he really got...about a third of the way, they show a play where he just throws down somebody. I think it might have been Winston at RT.

http://www.houstontexans.com/tv/


Color me unimpressed wit Mario and a little dissapointed with Winston.

All Mario did was use the fact that Winston was leaning forward and push pulled him...It's one of the most basic moves in the book...Bull rush a guy and when you feel him start to push back against you you pull him forward and the momentum usually ends up making the guy bite the dust...

Maybe it's the OT in me, but that to me is more of strike against Eric Winston's technique...I'm a big technique guy and I believe no .He should have kept his base, kept his hips down, arms extended, and balance on the balls of his feet..

Of course Mario is the type of DE that keeps tackles off balance...You have to compensate for his speed while at the same time remembering his strength...Mario has the tools and if he ever puts it together he'll easily be a 12 sack a year DE....Inexperinced tackles like Winston will probably lose a lot of matches to Mario though...

P.S. I never want to hear that Mario is strictly playing RDE again.

Hagar
08-01-2007, 01:54 PM
Bateman (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gV7-nfUSpKk)

I think the spanish adds something!!:pepper:

Fiddy
08-01-2007, 01:56 PM
See how mad he really got...about a third of the way, they show a play where he just throws down somebody. I think it might have been Winston at RT.

http://www.houstontexans.com/tv/ Call me crazy, but I thought Mario was gonna stay at the RE position and not be switched around. In that play, he is playing the LE position. I know Weaver is hurt, and that's probably why Mario is at LE, but I would really like to see Mario stay and get use to one position like the coaches said he would.

real
08-01-2007, 02:26 PM
Call me crazy, but I thought Mario was gonna stay at the RE position and not be switched around. In that play, he is playing the LE position. I know Weaver is hurt, and that's probably why Mario is at LE, but I would really like to see Mario stay and get use to one position like the coaches said he would.

Technically he was still playing weakside DE so in essence his technique and reads should have been the same...

If he stays at RDE and the offense has a TE to his side his tehnique would change...

If they were in a no tight situation I don't think it matters much which side he was on...

Fiddy
08-01-2007, 02:38 PM
Technically he was still playing weakside DE so in essence his technique and reads should have been the same...

If he stays at RDE and the offense has a TE to his side his tehnique would change...

If they were in a no tight situation I don't think it matters much which side he was on... I'm pretty sure technique changes because, to begin with, he'd have to put down his left hand instead of his right hand, and from what I've heard Mario say, being on the RE and the LE are two different things because of how you have to rush, but I'm not a DE so maybe you are right.

gtexan02
08-01-2007, 03:13 PM
There is clearly a big difference. Players specialize on one side or the other. Do I have evidence? Not directly,

BUT read Unimeyora's (I have no idea how to spell that) comments about the probability of picking up Simeon rice and him switching to the other side. He absoultely REFUSES to do it.

I don't know what the difference is, but there is something there.

I think the major thing is run defense. LDE have to be better at stopping the run, and the RDE is focused on rushing the passer.

real
08-01-2007, 03:15 PM
I'm pretty sure technique changes because, to begin with, he'd have to put down his left hand instead of his right hand, and from what I've heard Mario say, being on the RE and the LE are two different things because of how you have to rush, but I'm not a DE so maybe you are right.

Can't really explain it (or atleast I can't find the words to), but as long as he's on the weakside of the formation his reads and technique will (basically) be the same....

The only difference will be which hand he puts down and what foot he staggers back...

If he can't master that then we're in trouble...

gtexan02
08-01-2007, 03:19 PM
Umenyiora was adamant he was not going to move to the left side so Rice could play the right end.

"I'm a right end," Umenyiora said. "I have been successful at right end. I don't feel the need to move to a different position, that's kind of crazy if you ask me. Ask me to move to left defensive end because Simeon Rice is here? It's ridiculous."

When told that Strahan moved to left end early in his career, Umenyiora got defensive.

"Michael was never successful as a right defensive end," he said. "He wasn't if you look at his play. When they moved him to left defensive end, that's when he blew up because he is a natural left defensive end. I don't think you can make that argument with me."

Strahan also balked at moving to the left side.

"I am not going to move to left defensive end if they sign Simeon Rice," Umenyiora insisted. "That's what I'm telling you. If the team asks me, 'We need you to move to left defensive end because we need you at that position,' I will. But I will not move to left defensive end because Simeon Rice is coming in."



There must be something there

Fiddy
08-01-2007, 03:24 PM
There must be something there Remeber the link please: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2955357

But yeah, it's a wierd thing I guess but I'd just like to see Mario stay at RE, no moving. Coaches said they were going to do that but it doesnt look like they are sticking to it.

real
08-01-2007, 03:27 PM
There is clearly a big difference. Players specialize on one side or the other. Do I have evidence? Not directly,

BUT read Unimeyora's (I have no idea how to spell that) comments about the probability of picking up Simeon rice and him switching to the other side. He absoultely REFUSES to do it.

I don't know what the difference is, but there is something there.

I think the major thing is run defense. LDE have to be better at stopping the run, and the RDE is focused on rushing the passer.


Stop this LDE and RDE insanity...

You have a weakside DE, and you have a strong side DE...

DE's as well as LB's generally switch sides depending on the strength...That is why you normally don't see the defense get set until the offense breaks the huddle and is on their way to the line...

Think about it...If we put Babin in at Weakside DE and he didn't move according to the strength of the formation all the offense would have to do is put a TE on "Babin's side" and run at him every time...

Umenyoira is saying he doesn't want to be moved to Strong side DE, AKA the side with the TE, AKA the side the TE is on... which is generally going to be LDE....BUT THE STRENGTH CAN CHANGE PUTTING THE SDE ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE DEFENSE...

His comments:

"What position is he going to play over here? Left defensive end? He's not a run player. Everybody knows he's not a run defensive player and that's where they run the football at. The only other option would be to move me over (to the left) and I'm not moving over there."

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/2007/07/31/2007-07-31_osi_wont_move_for_rice.html

Osi doesn't want to move to the strong side because he likes the freedom of not having a TE in his way every snap...

In the clip we saw of Mario, there was NO TE on his side, so it's safe to assume that he was indeed on the weakside of the formation...

real
08-01-2007, 03:30 PM
Remeber the link please: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2955357

But yeah, it's a wierd thing I guess but I'd just like to see Mario stay at RE, no moving. Coaches said they were going to do that but it doesnt look like they are sticking to it.

If Mario doesn't move when the strength changes he will be playing a differnet position...

I would say 85-90% of the time the strength will dictate Mario be at RDE, but if the strength changes don't be surprised to see him switch too...

Kaiser Toro
08-01-2007, 03:31 PM
To garner a baseline understanding of what strong side and weak side mean take a peek at this link.

http://www.coachyourkids.com/defensivelinepage1.html

real
08-01-2007, 03:32 PM
Remeber the link please: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2955357

But yeah, it's a wierd thing I guess but I'd just like to see Mario stay at RE, no moving. Coaches said they were going to do that but it doesnt look like they are sticking to it.

This is a hopeless cause...

I now see that...

*carry on*

DBCooper
08-01-2007, 03:54 PM
This is a hopeless cause...

I now see that...

*carry on*

lol

Fiddy
08-01-2007, 03:57 PM
So when Kubes said Mario was gonna be the RE, he really said Mario would be the weakside??? He could have clarified that lol

real
08-01-2007, 04:18 PM
So when Kubes said Mario was gonna be the RE, he really said Mario would be the weakside??? He could have clarified that lol

Mario will probably be on the right side around 90% of the time...That's why they just use the term RDE...

It's rare that the strength will dictate Mario move to the left side...

Last year Mario played both strong side and weakside...

I think they just plan on keepng him on the weakside this year...

gtexan02
08-01-2007, 04:19 PM
The problem with all this "strong side / weak side" versus right and left is that you give examples of linebackers, and I will give you examples of DBs.

Dunta is ALWAYS on the same side of the field. It has nothing to do with whether or not the TE is on that side of the field. He always plays on one side.

Apparently, the linebackers switch depending on the formation.

I would have to watch some actual games to see if DEs regularly switch. I was under the impression that TE or no TE, Freeney always went against our LT. That would make him a RDE, not a weakside DE. But I could be wrong

The thing that changes is not just which hand you put down and which foot you start with. The entire field is switched. You use an entire different half of your body strength when rushing the ball carrier/passer. Your lateral movement changes. Your vision changes. I would think being moved around from the right side to the left side could really confuse some players

real
08-01-2007, 04:23 PM
The problem with all this "strong side / weak side" versus right and left is that you give examples of linebackers, and I will give you examples of DBs.

Dunta is ALWAYS on the same side of the field. It has nothing to do with whether or not the TE is on that side of the field. He always plays on one side.

Apparently, the linebackers switch depending on the formation.

I would have to watch some actual games to see if DEs regularly switch. I was under the impression that TE or no TE, Freeney always went against our LT. That would make him a RDE, not a weakside DE. But I could be wrong

The thing that changes is not just which hand you put down and which foot you start with. The entire field is switched. You use an entire different half of your body strength when rushing the ball carrier/passer. Your lateral movement changes. Your vision changes. I would think being moved around from the right side to the left side could really confuse some players


:gun:










Well, good luck with that....

:texflag:

gtexan02
08-01-2007, 04:27 PM
:gun:

Well, good luck with that....

:texflag:

I have no idea what you are referring to, but...

This has only to do with DBs as far as the quote is concerned, but I would assume it goes for all defensive/offensive players as well.


Your plant foot and your free hand when using various techniques are all backwards when you flip. Some guys have no issues on either side of the field but for some it is as hard as writing left handed. Personally, I don't know if Dunta has any issues with direction and technique but I do know I like to see him on the weakside most of the time. Faggins is a good coverage guy but his run support is suspect.

real
08-01-2007, 04:34 PM
I have no idea what you are referring to, but...

This has only to do with DBs as far as the quote is concerned, but I would assume it goes for all defensive/offensive players as well.

Why make assumptions about something you're not well informed about ?

And then argue them as fact?


I even noted in earlier post that the only thing that changes would be which hand he put down, and which foot he staggered back...you can go back and check if you'd like...

At the same time that is something small, aka minor, AKA not relevant...

The key is that by Mario switching according to the strength his reads will be the same...That is the biggest part.....Changing the way you line-up and which foot you have to plant are minor things that a proffesional football player should easily adjust to...

The Mental part of playing SDE vs WDE is where Mario had the problems last year...His alignment and such had nothing to do with it....

P.S. CB has noting to do with any of this.

Mr teX
08-01-2007, 04:37 PM
Why make assumptions about something you're not well informed about ?

And then argue them as fact?


I even noted in earlier post that the only thing that changes would be which hand he put down, and which foot he staggered back...you can go back and check if you'd like...At the same time that is something small, aka minor, AKA not relevant...

The key is that by Mario switching according to the strength his reads will be the same...That is the biggest part.....Changing the way you line-up and which foot you have to plant are minor things that a proffesional football player should easily adjust to...

The Mental part of playing SDE vs WDE is where Mario had the problems last year...His alignment and such had nothing to do with it....

P.S. CB has noting to do with any of this.

school the youngsta...

Kaiser Toro
08-01-2007, 04:39 PM
I would have to watch some actual games to see if DEs regularly switch. I was under the impression that TE or no TE, Freeney always went against our LT. That would make him a RDE, not a weakside DE. But I could be wrong

I will take my best stab at this to explain:
The offensive formation will dictate the strong and weak side dependent upon the placement along the offensive line of the TE. Moving your DE is counter productive due to the proximity of the point of attack. LB's and CB's have the time to view the TE going into position and can react if need be since they are on the second tier.

Feel free to correct this stabbing.

dskillz
08-01-2007, 04:40 PM
Borrow the J'ville bit and have the little, white trainer slap him a few times across the face before each game?



THAT is exactly what I was thinking of!!!!

Mr teX
08-01-2007, 04:42 PM
The problem with all this "strong side / weak side" versus right and left is that you give examples of linebackers, and I will give you examples of DBs.

Dunta is ALWAYS on the same side of the field. It has nothing to do with whether or not the TE is on that side of the field. He always plays on one side.

Apparently, the linebackers switch depending on the formation.

I would have to watch some actual games to see if DEs regularly switch. I was under the impression that TE or no TE, Freeney always went against our LT. That would make him a RDE, not a weakside DE. But I could be wrong

The thing that changes is not just which hand you put down and which foot you start with. The entire field is switched. You use an entire different half of your body strength when rushing the ball carrier/passer. Your lateral movement changes. Your vision changes. I would think being moved around from the right side to the left side could really confuse some players

As far as the CB's it varies by coverage & team. Dunta is always on the same side b/c for the most part, it really doesn't matter what side your on when you're playing a zone coverage like we played alot last year. But if you take say Tennessee where Fisher likes to leave his corners on islands, his best CB is usually on the the #1 WR, which can of course line up on either side of the field.

gtexan02
08-01-2007, 04:47 PM
school the youngsta...

Unfortunately, im older than xtru, AND if you would have read what I posted, I've never claimed any of what I've said to be fact.

ive been trying to pull information out from other sources since I don't know the facts

Ive said at least a few times that I'm making assumptions and would need to actually watch a DE switch sides in reference to the TE to see how the lines really work

real
08-01-2007, 04:47 PM
I will take my best stab at this to explain:
The offensive formation will dictate the strong and weak side dependent upon the placement along the offensive line of the TE. Moving your DE is counter productive due to the proximity of the point of attack. LB's and CB's have the time to view the TE going into position and can react if need be since they are on the second tier.

Feel free to correct this stabbing.

I don't know for sure what the colts do but if you notice, most defenses don't get set until the offense is coming to the line....That's because the offense dictates how the defense lines up...

If the colts do indeed leave Freeney on the right when the strength is to his side this would perfectly explain their poor run defense...

With all that said I really doubt the Colts leave him over there because if they did.... well....it just wouldn't be that smart...

gtexan02
08-01-2007, 04:49 PM
I don't know for sure what the colts do but if you notice, most defenses don't get set until the offense is coming to the line....That's because the offense dictates how the defense lines up...

If the colts do indeed leave Freeney on the right when the strength is to his side this would perfectly explain their poor run defense...

With all that said I really doubt the Colts leave him over there because if they did, why haven't the Texans just put a TE on his side and run in his direction all game...

I just dont see the point in moving your DEs around, because the opposing offense could jsut as easily line up with the TE on one side and motion him over to the other side. I guarantee you the DEs won't switch places in that instance

Also, I don't think Mathis is any better at stopping the run than Freeney. Iif anything, I think he is known as even more of a pass rushing specialist

Kaiser Toro
08-01-2007, 04:53 PM
I just dont see the point in moving your DEs around, because the opposing offense could jsut as easily line up with the TE on one side and motion him over to the other side. I guarantee you the DEs won't switch places in that instance

That is where scouting comes into play and your veteran leadership have to take notice and step up mentally, vocally and physically.

gtexan02
08-01-2007, 04:57 PM
I will take my best stab at this to explain:
The offensive formation will dictate the strong and weak side dependent upon the placement along the offensive line of the TE. Moving your DE is counter productive due to the proximity of the point of attack. LB's and CB's have the time to view the TE going into position and can react if need be since they are on the second tier.

Feel free to correct this stabbing.

That is where scouting comes into play and your veteran leadership have to take notice and step up mentally, vocally and physically.


Im confused (as usual haha). Are you saying that DEs switch depending on the tight end or that they always line up on the same side of the line regardless of the position of the TE?

Scouting would be able to help in identifying when offenses like to motion TEs, but its not going to really help. If you have a really weak run stopping DE who lines up on the weak side every time, you line the TE on his opposite side, and then motion him over.

I dont see what the defense could do, because if they call for their DEs to switch, the offense snaps the ball and catches the D with their pants down. If the DL predicts the motion and lines up with the weaker DE against the TE, the offense just runs the without the motion, taking advantage of the mismatch again?

real
08-01-2007, 04:58 PM
I just dont see the point in moving your DEs around, because the opposing offense could jsut as easily line up with the TE on one side and motion him over to the other side. I guarantee you the DEs won't switch places in that instance


If you watch any college football or highschool ball you will see the defense switch when the offense moves...When I was in highschool if the TE motioned our DE's and LB's would switch with him...this is not uncommon in highschool or college..

Switching sides when a player goes in motion is not condusive to NFL play because teams are too good and QB's are too smart...ALTHOUGH I HAVE SEEN IT DONE IN THE PRO'S....most of the time they will just make a call and to let the DE on the other side know he has a TE coming his way...

infantrycak
08-01-2007, 04:59 PM
If the colts do indeed leave Freeney on the right when the strength is to his side this would perfectly explain their poor run defense...

With all that said I really doubt the Colts leave him over there because if they did.... well....it just wouldn't be that smart...

Freeney does line up virtually all the time (frankly can't remember him not lining up there) at RDE.

gtexan02
08-01-2007, 05:00 PM
If you watch any college football or highschool ball you will see the defense switch when the offense moves...When I was in highschool if the TE motioned our DE's and LB's would switch with him...this is not uncommon in highschool or college..

Switching sides when a player goes in motion is not condusive to NFL play because teams are too good and QB's are too smart...ALTHOUGH I HAVE SEEN IT DONE IN THE PRO'S....most of the time they will just make a call and to let the DE on the other side know he has a TE coming his way...

Well considering we are talking about pro football here in the Texans forum, what does this equate to?

(Im honestly trying to figure this out, not trying to sound like a smart ass) Are you changing your stance, or are you still implying that DEs will switch sides depending on the tight end?

Are there "right and left defensive ends" or "weak side and strong side defensive ends"?

Someone who is sure of the answer please inform me!

real
08-01-2007, 05:02 PM
That is where scouting comes into play and your veteran leadership have to take notice and step up mentally, vocally and physically.

Scouting: If a team is known for motioning TE's to the other side of the formation this is what you work on during the week


If a team hasn't shown it before and shows it on game day, this is when you make in game adjustments...the DE's will come to the sideline and tell the coach...hey they're motioning that TE before the snap...and the coach will say...ok this is how we'll treat that situation...

And that's pretty much that...

Kaiser Toro
08-01-2007, 05:03 PM
Im confused (as usual haha). Are you saying that DEs switch depending on the tight end or that they always line up on the same side of the line regardless of the position of the TE?

Scouting would be able to help in identifying when offenses like to motion TEs, but its not going to really help. If you have a really weak run stopping DE who lines up on the weak side every time, you line the TE on his opposite side, and then motion him over.

I dont see what the defense could do, because if they call for their DEs to switch, the offense snaps the ball and catches the D with their pants down. If the DL predicts the motion and lines up with the weaker DE against the TE, the offense just runs the without the motion, taking advantage of the mismatch again?

To much innuendo and quick emotion is making this confusing. We should just leave it at the offense dictates SS and WS and the defense, dependent upon their personnel and strategy, reacts. I would not want my DE moving along the line after the SS is established due to exhaustion, a quick count and proximity of attack.

gtexan02
08-01-2007, 05:04 PM
Scouting: If a team is known for motioning TE's to the other side of the formation this is what you work on during the week


If a team hasn't shown it before and shows it on game day, this is when you make in game adjustments...the DE's will come to the sideline and tell the coach...hey they're motioning that TE before the snap...and the coach will say...ok this is how we'll treat that situation...

And that's pretty much that...

Don't you see that it doesn't matter? If a team wanted to put a TE in front of Mario every snap, they could do it. They just move the TE in front him before the play. If he lines up on the side where the TE already is, they just run the play. Mario isn't going to move around to avoid the TE. DL don't move all the way down the line.

gtexan02
08-01-2007, 05:07 PM
To much innuendo and quick emotion is making this confusing. We should just leave it at the offense dictates SS and WS and the defense, dependent upon their personnel and strategy, reacts. I would not want my DE moving along the line after the SS is established due to exhaustion, a quick count and proximity of attack.

I agree this is becoming more of a personal argument than what it should be, and Im sorry. So I'll just leave it at this.

I still don't understand what your specific view on the debate is. It sounds a little like both sides.

The question is simply do DEs line up on the WS/SS after the offense lines up or do they line up on the Right Side/Left Side.

Do DEs ignore the TE and line up on their side, or do they react to the offensive lines placement of the TE?

real
08-01-2007, 05:12 PM
Well considering we are talking about pro football here in the Texans forum, what does this equate to?

(Im honestly trying to figure this out, not trying to sound like a smart ass) Are you changing your stance, or are you still implying that DEs will switch sides depending on the tight end?

Are there "right and left defensive ends" or "weak side and strong side defensive ends"?

Someone who is sure of the answer please inform me!


Generally you will have a WDE and a SDE.

Generally the LB's, DE's and Safeties will wait until the offense breaks the huddle before they get set...If you notice, CB's will already be where they're going to be unless a you have a dominat corner that you want on the teams most talented reciever...

while the offense is coming to the line the MLB will normally be the one to call out the strength...

He'll scream out STRONG RIGHT or STRONG LEFT...

The strength tells the DE's which side so go to...Safeties are a little different...sometimes they will line up according to the strenghth, and sometimes they won't...it just depends on the defenense that is called...

But for a rule of thumb, OLB's and DE's are going to line-up according to the strength of the formation...

For everyone else, it really just depends on how the coaches want to handle things...

like in some four three defenses you will have a three technique and a nose...and in others there won't be a nose...In our defense we use a three tech and a nose so, yes, Amobi will have to line-up according to strength as well...

Lucky
08-01-2007, 05:12 PM
Freeney does line up virtually all the time (frankly can't remember him not lining up there) at RDE.
In the past, the Colts would move Freeney around after the offense came to the line of scrimmage. I once saw him line up over center on a passing down, versus the Texans. But, that was about 3 years ago.

I haven't seen the DEs swap spots during the practices I've seen. I have seen the DTs move depending on where the offense sets up.

gtexan02
08-01-2007, 05:16 PM
This is very confusing, and as I said before, I think the only way to resolve the issue is to watch game tape of teams with highly talented DEs.

xtru I understand your opinion, and I especially am inclined to trust it since you've actually played and have the whole "been there done that" going on, but there seem to be enough other opinions that I guess we'll wait and just see what Mario does

real
08-01-2007, 05:16 PM
Don't you see that it doesn't matter? If a team wanted to put a TE in front of Mario every snap, they could do it. They just move the TE in front him before the play. If he lines up on the side where the TE already is, they just run the play. Mario isn't going to move around to avoid the TE. DL don't move all the way down the line.



Let's just chalk it up to xtru not knowing what he's talking about...

It's all good....

real
08-01-2007, 05:20 PM
I have seen the DTs move depending on where the offense sets up.

DT's are a little bit more tricky because depending on whether it's an 'over' or an 'under' call the 1 gap DT could be on the strong side, or the weakside...

real
08-01-2007, 05:22 PM
Freeney does line up virtually all the time (frankly can't remember him not lining up there) at RDE.

This is because offenses don't generally line up with a TE on the left side...

So yes you are probably correct...


But when was the last time you saw Freeney lined up in front of a TE when it was a running play ?

gtexan02
08-01-2007, 05:24 PM
This is because offenses don't generally line up with a TE on the left side...

So yes you are probably correct...


But when was the last time you saw Freeney lined up in front of a TE when it was a running play ?


well, for one, I can remember him lining up against a TE when we ran 2 TE sets in that game we won. Obvoiusly not what you were looking for, but its not like Freeney is going to avoid TEs on every play

this is probably a stupid example

Kaiser Toro
08-01-2007, 05:28 PM
I agree this is becoming more of a personal argument than what it should be, and Im sorry. So I'll just leave it at this.

I still don't understand what your specific view on the debate is. It sounds a little like both sides.

The question is simply do DEs line up on the WS/SS after the offense lines up or do they line up on the Right Side/Left Side.

Do DEs ignore the TE and line up on their side, or do they react to the offensive lines placement of the TE?

I believe that would dependent upon the defense's personnel and strategy via scouting and in game adjustments. It appears that a RDE/LDE designate is more about technique and a QB's blindside.

Once again someone please correct me if I am broadcasting from Pluto.

Double Barrel
08-01-2007, 05:36 PM
Why would Kubiak make a statement that Mario is a RE and will play from one position if it's really a SDE vs. WDE consideration?

I understand the concepts of moving a DE to either side, depending on the formation. But I'm wondering why the HC doesn't make that distinction, which is probably what has confused this subject more than anything else.

real
08-01-2007, 05:37 PM
I believe that would dependent upon the defense's personnel and strategy via scouting and in game adjustments. It appears that a RDE/LDE designate is more about technique and a QB's blindside.

Once again someone please correct me if I am broadcasting from Pluto.

It's not.

The reason that Weadkside DE's are more often than not seen on the right side is because 90% of the time that is what the strength dictates...

Trust me when I say Mario and Weaver will most likely switch sides if the offense lines up with the TE next to the Lt...

Kaiser Toro
08-01-2007, 05:40 PM
FWIW, from TC's blog last year

In a press teleconference, Colts defensive end Dwight Freeney was asked about Mario Williams being moved all around the line, and he actually gave a real opinion instead of a football guy non-opinion:

"I think that puts him at a disadvantage. I'll come flat out and say that. If you want a guy to get better you have to have him do the same thing over and over and over. Think of it as a concrete layer, to become a good concrete layer you have to lay a lot of concrete. You have to do the same thing. If he does twenty different things, he's going to be average. Sometimes he'll be below average sometimes he might be a little bit better. If you're not doing the same thing every single day it's going to catch up to you. You'll be a good utility player, but at the end of the day you have to be put in a position to excel"


http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/category/nfl/2006/09/14/dwight-freeney-criticizes-texans-use-of-mario-williams/

Kaiser Toro
08-01-2007, 05:43 PM
It's not.

The reason that Weadkside DE's are more often than not seen on the right side is because 90% of the time that is what the strength dictates...

Trust me when I say Mario and Weaver will most likely switch sides if the offense lines up with the TE next to the Lt...

At least we are trying to talk football, feels refreshing. :texflag:

Double Barrel
08-01-2007, 05:45 PM
Here's the quotes from the Houston Chronicle / USA Today:

The Texans have Williams working exclusively at right end. Last year, he often practiced at various positions on the line. The solitary focus — and the addition of this year's first-round pick Amobi Okoye — should help Williams improve on his 4 1/2 -sack season.


Source (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/4838154.html)

Williams is a right defensive end until further notice. No more switching sides, no more snaps at tackle.

Source (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/justice/5007226.html)

And sorry, xtruroyaltyx, but Mario disagrees with you:

"I don't think moving me necessarily slowed me down," he said, "but it's an adjustment. Left end isn't the same as playing right end".

Source (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/justice/5007226.html)

Williams is expecting a big year with the knowledge gained from his rookie year and the luxury of playing right defensive end exclusively after moving up and down the line last season.

---------------------

"It's really nice, so now I can just sit here and focus on playing right defense end and just learning things at that position," he said. "You don't want to go backward. The No. 1 thing me and the whole defense have to do is take it to the next level."

Source (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/2007-07-26-1031908187_x.htm)

real
08-01-2007, 05:45 PM
Why would Kubiak make a statement that Mario is a RE and will play from one position if it's really a SDE vs. WDE consideration?

I understand the concepts of moving a DE to either side, depending on the formation. But I'm wondering why the HC doesn't make that distinction, which is probably what has confused this subject more than anything else.


The right side of the defense will be the weakside a majority of the time.

When a head coach starts talking about Weakside vs. strong side he confuses a great piece of the viewing, reading or listening public...

It's much more simplistic and easy to understand "right" vs. "left"....Especially for those that don't know much about the finer points of football...

Many people wouldn't understand weakside vs. strongside verbiage...

But the reason they just say RDE is because the weakside DE will be on the right side about 90% of the time because 90% of the time the TE will be on the offenses right...


:fans:

Kaiser Toro
08-01-2007, 05:48 PM
But the reason they just say RDE is because the weakside DE will be on the right side about 90% of the time because 90% of the time the TE will be on the offenses right...

So are you saying Mario is a weakside RDE trapped in a strong side LDE's body? :pirate:

real
08-01-2007, 05:48 PM
FWIW, from TC's blog last year



http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/category/nfl/2006/09/14/dwight-freeney-criticizes-texans-use-of-mario-williams/

Exactly...


By Mario staying on the weakside (which 90% of the time will land him at RDE) he will have the same reads and will be doing the same thing, just on the other side...

If Mario stayed on the side the TE went to his reads and technique as well as what gap he lined up in would have to change...

HOU-TEX
08-01-2007, 05:49 PM
It's not.

The reason that Weadkside DE's are more often than not seen on the right side is because 90% of the time that is what the strength dictates...

Trust me when I say Mario and Weaver will most likely switch sides if the offense lines up with the TE next to the Lt...

IMO, it more or less depends on the defensive play that's called. I played quickside(didn't like the term weak, lol) DE in HS as well as a couple years in college. I always switched to the cough"weakside" cough.

Having said that, the NFL appears to be totally different. While attending Texans practices I've noticed the DE's and DT's switch at various times. One play that appeared strong rt., the DT's switched and the DE's stayed.

Like I said, I think it has to do with the play/scheme that is called.:)

real
08-01-2007, 05:52 PM
So are you saying Mario is a weakside RDE trapped in a strong side LDE's body? :pirate:

Now this is an iteresting topic...

I personally think Mario has enough burst and pass rushing ability to play weakside/RDE for us....

He's probably better suited for the Strong side, but when you go out at sign an Anthony Weaver you kind of force your hand...

Perfect Scenario would have been for Weaver to not have been signed, and for Babin to prove he's capable of performing...

then you could have put Babin on the weakside, and let Mario play the strong side...

And you're right....it feels great to be talking football...:texflag:

Double Barrel
08-01-2007, 05:54 PM
The right side of the defense will be the weakside a majority of the time.

When a head coach starts talking about Weakside vs. strong side he confuses a great piece of the viewing, reading or listening public...

I understand, but that still does not jive with the a/m quotes. Words like "exclusive" and "no more switching sides" seem to indicate a different position.

And I have heard Kubiak talk about strong side vs. weak side in previous interviews, so I'm not sure that he'd suddenly dumb down his football talk for the casual fans for this specific subject.

Obviously, the regular season will be the tell all.

real
08-01-2007, 05:54 PM
Here's the quotes from the Houston Chronicle / USA Today:



Source (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/4838154.html)



Source (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/justice/5007226.html)

And sorry, xtruroyaltyx, but Mario disagrees with you:



Source (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/justice/5007226.html)



Source (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/2007-07-26-1031908187_x.htm)

Ok...whatever folks...

In the video Mario is clearly on the Left side of the defense, NOT going against the TE...

I'm just trying to spread some understanding, but never mind me...

*carry on*:cowboy1:

Kaiser Toro
08-01-2007, 05:56 PM
Ok...whatever folks...

In the video Mario is clearly on the Left side of the defense, NOT going against the TE...

I'm just trying to spread some understanding, but never mind me...

*carry on*:cowboy1:

Mario is the Magic Man - Now you see him, now you don't.

real
08-01-2007, 05:58 PM
IMO, it more or less depends on the defensive play that's called. I played quickside(didn't like the term weak, lol) DE in HS as well as a couple years in college. I always switched to the cough"weakside" cough.

Having said that, the NFL appears to be totally different. While attending Texans practices I've noticed the DE's and DT's switch at various times. One play that appeared strong rt., the DT's switched and the DE's stayed.

Like I said, I think it has to do with the play/scheme that is called.:)

From My understanding the DT's don't really switch...

The 3-tech (which is Amobi) is the only one who actually switches...Maddox should just be staying on the center...either shaded to either side or head up...

But you're right...a lot of it has to do with the defensive play call...

Double Barrel
08-01-2007, 05:59 PM
Ok...whatever folks...

In the video Mario is clearly on the Left side of the defense, NOT going against the TE...

I'm just trying to spread some understanding, but never mind me...

*carry on*:cowboy1:

It is practice, which you have advised not to get too excited about. ;)

You are doing a good job of sharing your knowledge, man. So please be patient as the information is absorbed.

I'm just curious why the team is using terms that indicate something other than what is being planned for, that's all. It is not an attempt to discredit you or challenge your information, but rather strengthen all of our understanding of the subject and our team. :)

real
08-01-2007, 06:00 PM
I understand, but that still does not jive with the a/m quotes. Words like "exclusive" and "no more switching sides" seem to indicate a different position.

And I have heard Kubiak talk about strong side vs. weak side in previous interviews, so I'm not sure that he'd suddenly dumb down his football talk for the casual fans for this specific subject.

Obviously, the regular season will be the tell all.


Lets see....

the a/m quotes don't jive with what I'm saying...

guess what else they don't jive with...

the freakin' video of yesterday's practice with Mario on the.....tada....left side....

If Mario is going to be 'exclusively' on the right side, and there isn't going to be 'any more switching' why in gods name is he on the left side in that video...that is the real issue...

HOU-TEX
08-01-2007, 06:02 PM
From My understanding the DT's don't really switch...

The 3-tech (which is Amobi) is the only one who actually switches...Maddox should just be staying on the center...either shaded to either side or head up...

But you're right...a lot of it has to do with the defensive play call...

You're correct. Amobi switches to opposite 3 tech while Maddox switches to opposite 1 tech (which in reality is a couple feet).:cool:

real
08-01-2007, 06:05 PM
I'm just curious why the team is using terms that indicate something other than what is being planned for, that's all.

I would say out of all the plays run during our 16 game schedule, the opposing offense will probably line-up with the TE on the left side and no TE on the right no more than 15 times, and I think 15 is a stretch...


It's rare that teams line up with the strength to the left...

That is why they just say RDE....It makes no sense to come behind that and say, well he'll probably be on the left side maybe 15 times next year because the TE will line up on the right...

real
08-01-2007, 06:07 PM
You're correct. Amobi switches to opposite 3 tech while Maddox switches to opposite 1 tech (which in reality is a couple feet).:cool:


I've never been to an NFL practice and Saturday will be my first one...

I'm sooooo pumped...

:d:

Double Barrel
08-01-2007, 06:11 PM
I've never been to an NFL practice and Saturday will be my first one...

I'm sooooo pumped...

:d:

Morning practice? If so, we'll be there, too! :texflag:

real
08-01-2007, 06:13 PM
Morning practice? If so, we'll be there, too! :texflag:

Yep, I'm bringing my two oldest younger brothers...

Did I mention I'm pumped !

Double Barrel
08-01-2007, 06:19 PM
Yep, I'm bringing my two oldest younger brothers...

Did I mention I'm pumped !

Cool, man! I hope we can hook up there, because it would be a blast chatting football with you.

ccdude730
08-01-2007, 06:26 PM
just to jump in...

tradition says the RE is the weakside but thats not necessarily the case because it is dependent on the offense and their formation (hopefully this has already been established). defenses will normally wait until until the offense gets set, but then what if they put a back or TE into motion? you usually wont see a DE move with them (this is where film study comes in) because sometimes it IS for protection and sometimes its to seal the end off. you just never know because the plays are so complex.

one of the reasons you wont see a TE continually in motion is because the offense can change the protection schemes. instead of leaving a tackle by himself or the tackle with a TE against a DE - the tackle and guard can go to work against the DE. on occasion you will see WDE out of the normal RE spot but the majority of the time they are going to spend their time there.

in the NFL, if you want to play defense - you get after the QB. offenses know this! they have created so many different ways to alter protections and deal with DEs.

basically mario is playing at RDE :cool:

real
08-01-2007, 06:28 PM
Cool, man! I hope we can hook up there, because it would be a blast chatting football with you.

Definitely....

Keep an eye out for me....

infantrycak
08-01-2007, 06:29 PM
Ok...whatever folks...

In the video Mario is clearly on the Left side of the defense, NOT going against the TE...

I'm just trying to spread some understanding, but never mind me...

*carry on*:cowboy1:

You do know Weaver is out right now, right? Wouldn't exactly be shocking if they have Mario at LDE and someone totally unsuited like Babin running RDE in his absence.

The NFL isn't the same as high school and college or even the old NFL. The best CB isn't on the best WR most of the time anymore and on most teams, the DE's aren't swapping sides based on the TE. And yes, the Texans have lined up a single TE left and had Freeney remain at RDE. Maybe swapping consistently would be better, but just like moving the CB's, many NFL coaches don't agree. I won't be surprised to see Mario line up somewhere other than RDE but I bet there isn't a 100% correlation to a single TE lined up left.

HOU-TEX
08-01-2007, 06:38 PM
I've never been to an NFL practice and Saturday will be my first one...

I'm sooooo pumped...

:d:

I have to say, it's pretty impressive.:texflag:

BTW, does anyone know if tomorrow nights going to be full pads?

real
08-01-2007, 06:39 PM
You do know Weaver is out right now, right? Wouldn't exactly be shocking if they have Mario at LDE and someone totally unsuited like Babin running RDE in his absence.

The NFL isn't the same as high school and college or even the old NFL. The best CB isn't on the best WR most of the time anymore and on most teams, the DE's aren't swapping sides based on the TE. And yes, the Texans have lined up a single TE left and had Freeney remain at RDE. Maybe swapping consistently would be better, but just like moving the CB's, many NFL coaches don't agree. I won't be surprised to see Mario line up somewhere other than RDE but I bet there isn't a 100% correlation to a single TE lined up left.

Never said there was "100% correlation"....you either assumed that or dreamt it up...I've said several times that scheme may dictate otherwise...

I even said "as a general rule" a plethora of times...


I just find it odd that there is no TE in that video and....tada...he's on the side with no TE which happens to be the left side of the defense..

And actually what you're saying makes little sense...If their goal is to confuse Mario less and get him acclimated to playing one position, why on earth is his filling Weavers position instead of getting better at his own?


Why is he wasting reps playing Weavers back-up?

Why all the talk about Mario being a "RDE" exclusively and then clear as day we see him on the left side ?

Hmmmm.....

Mr teX
08-01-2007, 06:41 PM
well, for one, I can remember him lining up against a TE when we ran 2 TE sets in that game we won. Obvoiusly not what you were looking for, but its not like Freeney is going to avoid TEs on every play

this is probably a stupid example

What Xtru is saying is right & what you're saying is right. It's all part of the strategy of the game. There is no significant change in technique from right to left & defenses do wait for the offense to get set most times before they line up accordingly.

But you're also right in that teams can just motion a guy over to help block the weakside guy & everything is equalized so to speak.

It mostly depends on the situation & what the offensive & defensive coaches are trying to do, but i do know that most defensive coaches prefer there #1 pass rusher to come from the backside so the QB can't see him coming which also has bearing on where they line up.

This is probably why Freeney's always on the right side of the DL b/c most Qb's are right handed & it allows for him to always be on the backside of the opposing QB.

infantrycak
08-01-2007, 06:44 PM
I just find it odd that there is no TE in that video and....tada...he's on the side with no TE which happens to be the left side of the defense..

And you can see there is no TE on the other side?

Why is he wasting reps playing Weavers back-up?

Maybe to get the best players on the field in the most appropriate spot to get 1st team reps. Mario almost certainly can play LDE better than either Babin or Kalu. Kubiak is big on versatility and being prepared for injuries so a little practice outside of the normal line-up is not shocking.

real
08-01-2007, 06:46 PM
But you're also right in that teams can just motion a guy over to help block the weakside guy & everything is equalized so to speak.

If the defense is not going to line-up according to strength, why motion a guy ?

Why not just break the huddle with the TE lining up on the left ?

real
08-01-2007, 06:55 PM
Maybe to get the best players on the field in the most appropriate spot to get 1st team reps. Mario almost certainly can play LDE better than either Babin or Kalu. Kubiak is big on versatility and being prepared for injuries so a little practice outside of the normal line-up is not shocking.


I figured this would be your response, and again, that really makes little sense...

You are guessing...

I'm saying, yes he is a weakside DE and sometimes he will line up on the left because of strength and you're coming up with hypothetical situations to dispute that...

We have really just started camp....All of this talk about Mario exclusively playing one position and they are already switching him ? Either they are liars or they are blatant liars...or maybe I know a little bit about this game...

Yes Kubiak is big on versatility, but he's not dumb...

That'd be like one of the chargers recievers getting hurt so they put LT at wideout and start turner "to have the best players on the field"...

Or if one of the Chargers O-linemen gets hurt so they move Marcus McNeil to guard..


Mario is a #1 draft pick, 1st overall selection....

Why is he backing Weaver up ?

Why is he practicing filling someone elses position in case Weaver is hurt ?

Where is Weaver's back-up when we need him ?

We shouldn't be moving dominant players (or what we hope to be dominant players) out of the position they play in order to get the best on the field...just let Weaver's back up come in and fill the role because otherwise you could wind up doing more damage than good...

Mr teX
08-01-2007, 06:59 PM
If the defense is not going to line-up according to strength, why motion a guy ?

Why not just break the huddle with the TE lining up on the left ?

The defense does line up according to strength, but most times the D-line is set once the offense gives it's pre snap look. Motioning can mean any number of things to an offense as i'm sure you know. In addition to protection, it can be done just to get a certain look from the D maybe to set something up later in the game.

Imo it's not so much the motion itself, but who's motioning. For instance Westbrook, TO or Gates are going to command more attention in motion than say vonta leach, kevin walter or mark breuner.

This is part of the RB debate today. NO runs lots of motion with him, the question is what are you going to do pay lots of attention to him & make big concessions in your defensive gameplan, just send an LB to cover him & forget about it, or are you going to shade coverage his way with the safeties? Either way you've got a tremendous mismatch or someone somewhere is man up & it makes for easy pickings.

michaelm
08-01-2007, 07:01 PM
Never said there was "100% correlation"....you either assumed that or dreamt it up...I've said several times that scheme may dictate otherwise...

I even said "as a general rule" a plethora of times...


I just find it odd that there is no TE in that video and....tada...he's on the side with no TE which happens to be the left side of the defense..

And actually what you're saying makes little sense...If their goal is to confuse Mario less and get him acclimated to playing one position, why on earth is his filling Weavers position instead of getting better at his own?


Why is he wasting reps playing Weavers back-up?

Why all the talk about Mario being a "RDE" exclusively and then clear as day we see him on the left side ?

Hmmmm.....

I'm not saying you're wrong about anything, but there could be reasons for Mario being on the left side that have nothing to do with how he'll be used during the season.
(Speculating) Maybe they wanted to get someone else reps on the right side, and they gave Mario the option to get some reps on the left side.
Maybe they wanted Winston to get some reps against our best DE...

Who knows? I guess TC is a good time for a positional conspiracy theory???


I could be wrong, but I don't think DEs switch sides on a regular basis depending on which side the TE initially lines up on. If that were the case, an OC could come out in a set that puts your dominant DE on whichever side they wish, and motion the TE to the other side.
DEs don't switch sides as TEs motion, the LB and safety assignments change, and they also may do some shifting.

Plug in your Madden and tell me if you can run Freeny ragged by motioning your TE back and forth a bunch of times...
Madden may not be the best at showing reality in the game, but the players do follow a pretty realistic system of assignments based on offensive formation.

Double Barrel
08-01-2007, 07:06 PM
There is no significant change in technique from right to left...

Then why would Mario say this?

"I don't think moving me necessarily slowed me down," he said, "but it's an adjustment. Left end isn't the same as playing right end".

Source (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/justice/5007226.html)

infantrycak
08-01-2007, 07:12 PM
Then why would Mario say this?

Source (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/justice/5007226.html)

Evidently he just hasn't been sufficiently educated yet.

Good lord, one weekend's watching of the NFL will show you a few examples of DE's swapping and a whole bunch of them staying in place even when the TE lines up atypical.

Mr teX
08-01-2007, 07:16 PM
Then why would Mario say this?



Source (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/justice/5007226.html)

Maybe b/c he's used to playing on a certain side, maybe he just means that on 1 side it's alot tougher to rush the passer from. That doesn't mean that your actual technique of rushing the passer changes significantly It could mean anything.

By technique i mean the moves you use to set up,get by & get rid of tackles as well as hand placement etc...

Runner
08-01-2007, 07:20 PM
There is no difference. That is why most people can write, play golf, dribble a basketball, eat, and pick boogers equally well with either hand.

Doing the techniques with the hands switched, foot positioning switched, etc. makes a difference. It takes some practice to do both sides equally well. Moves become ingrained and second nature if done on the same side all of the time.

michaelm
08-01-2007, 07:23 PM
There is no difference. That is why most people can write, play golf, dribble a basketball, and pick and eat boogers equally well with either hand.

Just giving myself a mindless chuckle here...

carry on...

Kaiser Toro
08-01-2007, 07:24 PM
There is no difference. That is why most people can write, play golf, dribble a basketball, eat, and pick boogers equally well with either hand.

Doing the techniques with the hands switched, foot positioning switched, etc. makes a difference. It takes some practice to do both sides equally well. Moves become ingrained and second nature if done on the same side all of the time.

$50 bucks says the Smails' kid picks his nose.

Mr teX
08-01-2007, 07:26 PM
There is no difference. That is why most people can write, play golf, dribble a basketball, eat, and pick boogers equally well with either hand.

We're talking professional athletes here, not most people.

No significant difference....generally DE's should be interchangeable like Right & left CB's & tackles & guards. It might take them a little to get used to the position from the other side but the principle & technique is still the same.

real
08-01-2007, 07:42 PM
We're talking professional athletes here, not most people.

No significant difference....generally DE's should be interchangeable like Right & left CB's & tackles & guards. It might take them a little to get used to the position from the other side but the principle & technique is still the same.

I agree to a certain extent...

Winston was just on the radio talking about his move from LT to RT...

He too said it was difficult...

I can vouch for that...

It just feels differnt and awkward...

However it does vary by position and the particular person IMO...

It's harder for tackles to switch sides than it is a gaurd...

It's easier for DT's to switch than it is for DE's...

It's easier for a DE than a CB...

Linebackers seem to switch really easily also...

BattleRedToro
08-01-2007, 07:48 PM
From My understanding the DT's don't really switch...

The 3-tech (which is Amobi) is the only one who actually switches...Maddox should just be staying on the center...either shaded to either side or head up...

But you're right...a lot of it has to do with the defensive play call...

That isn't necessarily true. The DT's can and do switch their starting positions dependent upon the play called. Even if the TE remains on the RT side, the DT's can be placed in a 4-3 Stack Formation, a 4-3 Over Formation, or a 4-3 Under Formation.

Let us assume the Texans start Weaver at LE/SDE, Williams at RE/WDE, Maddox at DT/NT, and Okoye at DT/3T, Orr at SLB. For the sake of simplicity I am not going to discuss the LB's positions within each of these formations. Now then, a 4-3 Stack Formation would normally place Weaver over the TE's right shoulder, Okoye over the RG's right shoulder, Maddox heads up with the LG, and Williams outside of the LT. To change to 4-3 Over Formation would normally move Maddox to line him up over the laft shoulder of the C and Williams heads up over the LT. Finally, a 4-3 Under Formation would normally place Weaver over the right shoulder of the RT, Maddox over the right shoulder of the C, Okoye over the left shoulder of the LG, and Williams over the left shoulder of the LT.

real
08-01-2007, 07:54 PM
That isn't necessarily true. The DT's can and do switch their starting positions dependent upon the play called. Even if the TE remains on the RT side, the DT's can be placed in a 4-3 Stack Formation, a 4-3 Over Formation, or a 4-3 Under Formation.

Let us assume the Texans start Weaver at LE/SDE, Williams at RE/WDE, Maddox at DT/NT, and Okoye at DT/3T, Orr at SLB. For the sake of simplicity I am not going to discuss the LB's positions within each of these formations. Now then, a 4-3 Stack Formation would normally place Weaver over the TE's right shoulder, Okoye over the RG's right shoulder, Maddox heads up with the LG, and Williams outside of the LT. To change to 4-3 Over Formation would normally move Maddox to line him up over the laft shoulder of the C and Williams heads up over the LT. Finally, a 4-3 Under Formation would normally place Weaver over the right shoulder of the RT, Maddox over the right shoulder of the C, Okoye over the left shoulder of the LG, and Williams over the left shoulder of the LT.



I know what an over, stack and under are...Even covered that earlier in the thread:

DT's are a little bit more tricky because depending on whether it's an 'over' or an 'under' call the 1 gap DT could be on the strong side, or the weakside...

but thanks for the info...


P.S. We were talking about moving from the left to the right...
That still only has Okoye switching sides, which is exactly what I said...

michaelm
08-01-2007, 07:54 PM
That isn't necessarily true. The DT's can and do switch their starting positions dependent upon the play called. Even if the TE remains on the RT side, the DT's can be placed in a 4-3 Stack Formation, a 4-3 Over Formation, or a 4-3 Under Formation.

Let us assume the Texans start Weaver at LE/SDE, Williams at RE/WDE, Maddox at DT/NT, and Okoye at DT/3T, Orr at SLB. For the sake of simplicity I am not going to discuss the LB's positions within each of these formations. Now then, a 4-3 Stack Formation would normally place Weaver over the TE's right shoulder, Okoye over the RG's right shoulder, Maddox heads up with the LG, and Williams outside of the LT. To change to 4-3 Over Formation would normally move Maddox to line him up over the laft shoulder of the C and Williams heads up over the LT. Finally, a 4-3 Under Formation would normally place Weaver over the right shoulder of the RT, Maddox over the right shoulder of the C, Okoye over the left shoulder of the LG, and Williams over the left shoulder of the LT.

It's hard for my simple mind to follow your descriptions without graphics (thanks a lot internet...), but it sounds like what you're describing is shifting, which is different from switching. Shifting is where all the DLinemen maintain their position relative to each other, and slide left or right depending on the DLine calls. Switching would be where two DEs, for example swap sides with each other... I think... :)

Mr teX
08-01-2007, 07:59 PM
I agree to a certain extent...

Winston was just on the radio talking about his move from LT to RT...

He too said it was difficult...

I can vouch for that...

It just feels differnt and awkward...

However it does vary by position and the particular person IMO...

It's harder for tackles to switch sides than it is a gaurd...

It's easier for DT's to switch than it is for DE's...

It's easier for a DE than a CB...

Linebackers seem to switch really easily also...

Yeah, you're right there is a significant difference between the tackles that you might not ever be able to get used to (speed wise) but for the most part, I think it's moreso the acclimation process for the other positions i named. Once you've gotten used to it, it's an easy switch.

BattleRedToro
08-01-2007, 08:10 PM
I know what an over, stack and under are...Even covered that earlier in the thread:

I didn't see that you covered it earlier.






P.S. We were talking about moving from the left to the right...
That still only has Okoye switching sides, which is exactly what I said...

Actually this is what you said:

From My understanding the DT's don't really switch...

The 3-tech (which is Amobi) is the only one who actually switches...Maddox should just be staying on the center...either shaded to either side or head up...
But you're right...a lot of it has to do with the defensive play call...

And in a 4-3 Stack Formation, Maddox would be head up over the LG, not the C. There is a difference between shading a C and lining head up over the LG.

The Pencil Neck
08-01-2007, 08:18 PM
Then why would Mario say this?



Source (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/justice/5007226.html)

Because Kubiak told him to as part of one of Kubiak's Jedi Mind tricks trying to throw off our competition.

gtexan02
08-01-2007, 08:47 PM
Did people forget the previous posts of this topic? We have evidence from a LOT of professional DEs saying right and left isn't the same.

Im sorry, but I just fail to believe that all DEs are really "strong side weak side." If they were, they'd refer to themselves as that. I think all DEs are either "right side left side." Thats why them call themselves that. Football players don't care about dumbing down their verbiage, they call it like its called in practice

Runner
08-01-2007, 09:13 PM
We're talking professional athletes here, not most people.


Winston was just on the radio talking about his move from LT to RT...

He too said it was difficult...


Somebody tell Winston to man up. He's supposed to be a professional athlete.

The Pencil Neck
08-01-2007, 09:38 PM
Somebody tell Winston to man up. He's supposed to be a professional athlete.


Apparently, it's not so easy that a caveman can easily do it.

real
08-01-2007, 09:50 PM
And in a 4-3 Stack Formation, Maddox would be head up over the LG, not the C. There is a difference between shading a C and lining head up over the LG.

Thanks for picking that nit...

Couldn't quite get it myself...

CoachJim
08-02-2007, 07:19 AM
It's always been taught to me from JR high ball up to HS that ya gotta be pissed off to play this game. I've been coaching LL football here in Pasadena for 14 yrs. now using this same philosiphy & it seems to work. I've manufactured more head hunters than a few, been to the playoffs 10Xs, the SuperBowl 5Xs, & won it all 3Xs. Now I realize were talkin about 8-12 year olds vs 21- 30 something men & I'm sure somewhere down that road you've gotta learn to control that anger so its not detrimental to your team BUT a certian amount of anger goes a long way IMHMFO.

BattleRedToro
08-02-2007, 07:26 AM
Thanks for picking that nit...

Couldn't quite get it myself...

You can call it nit picking if you like. I call it pointing out details. To me they are important. :texflag:

alphajoker
08-02-2007, 07:54 AM
Color me unimpressed wit Mario and a little dissapointed with Winston.

All Mario did was use the fact that Winston was leaning forward and push pulled him...It's one of the most basic moves in the book...Bull rush a guy and when you feel him start to push back against you you pull him forward and the momentum usually ends up making the guy bite the dust...

Maybe it's the OT in me, but that to me is more of strike against Eric Winston's technique...I'm a big technique guy and I believe no .He should have kept his base, kept his hips down, arms extended, and balance on the balls of his feet..

Of course Mario is the type of DE that keeps tackles off balance...You have to compensate for his speed while at the same time remembering his strength...Mario has the tools and if he ever puts it together he'll easily be a 12 sack a year DE....Inexperinced tackles like Winston will probably lose a lot of matches to Mario though...

P.S. I never want to hear that Mario is strictly playing RDE again.

Wow! How could you see all that?!