PDA

View Full Version : Unsigned Quinn misses 4th day of Browns camp


Pages : [1] 2

Wolf
07-31-2007, 12:38 AM
BEREA, Ohio -- Cleveland Browns rookie quarterback Brady Quinn missed his fourth day of training camp Monday in a contract holdout that shows no signs of ending anytime soon for the first-round draft pick.

Quinn, who figures to compete for the starting job with Charlie Frye and Derek Anderson, has missed six practices so far.

Browns general manager Phil Savage has been in negotiations with Quinn's agent, Tom Condon, but the team said there was nothing new to report.

"I'm glad we've got the other guys out there," Savage said. "If anything, it's given Charlie and Derek the chance to get more reps, and that's a positive."

Savage characterized talks with Condon as "in the same neighborhood, but not on the same street


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2954946

wow no hometown discount :shades: esp after all the "rah rah rah, my dream is to play of Cleveland etc etc hype"

real
07-31-2007, 12:41 AM
Brady Quinn has B-U-S-T written all over him...

The Pencil Neck
07-31-2007, 12:46 AM
Prior to the Schaub trade, I was really afraid we were going to end up with this guy.

2BCF
07-31-2007, 01:06 AM
the 22nd pick is acting like a #2 pick.

Blazing Arrow
07-31-2007, 01:10 AM
Poor Browns .... they knew passing on Quinn was a good idea in the beggining and now they realize why hey should never draft a QB again.

Couch ....

Fry ....

Quinn .... ?

Scooter
07-31-2007, 06:02 AM
Brady Quinn has C-A-R-R written all over him...

sorry, i couldnt resist. brady quinn has "bust" tattoo'd across his forehead and is an exact replica of carr in football terms. all the physical tools with no head attached.

Koolaid Time
07-31-2007, 08:21 AM
the 22nd pick is acting like a #2 pick.

More evidence that the guy fell to #22 for a reason...

Yankee_In_TX
07-31-2007, 10:24 AM
the 22nd pick is acting like a #2 pick.

They NEED to make a stand for all the other teams; draft picks demanding money is getting our of control. Every year they have a new made up reason. What's his?

A. I went to Notre Dame.
B. Do you KNOW who I am?
C. I was a top 5 pick.
D. I'm pretty, white, family oriented, and religious. (sorry, couldn't resist)

gtexan02
07-31-2007, 10:43 AM
I dont think he should get paid more than his draft position, but anyone who thinks he is going to be a huge bust already is kidding themselves.

He may not make a huge impact already, but he proved himself at ND in my opinion, and I think he's going to make the Browns a much better team midway through the season

Kaiser Toro
07-31-2007, 10:45 AM
I dont think he should get paid more than his draft position, but anyone who thinks he is going to be a huge bust already is kidding themselves.

He may not make a huge impact already, but he proved himself at ND in my opinion, and I think he's going to make the Browns a much better team midway through the season

What is it that he proved at ND that makes you think he will have a huge impact in the NFL?

The Dream
07-31-2007, 10:48 AM
Brady Quinn has B-U-S-T written all over him...

Word....dude wants to be treated like he was a top 10 pick.....

What is it that he proved at ND that makes you think he will have a huge impact in the NFL?

exactly....out of the 5 or 6 ND games I watched last year Quinn didn't impress me one bit...he seems like he's mistake prone and now with this hold out he looks like a jerk also

swtbound07
07-31-2007, 10:48 AM
I've been calling for quinn as a bust for literally months now...was absolutely terrified of him ending up here. That cold sweat lasted from the second the dolphins passed on him until we got amobi.....man he is going to suck.

gtexan02
07-31-2007, 10:49 AM
He proved he can win games without much support, without much of an OL, and without any defense.

He has good form, good pocket presence, and good arm strength.

I dont seem to get why people are so quick to label him a bust?

I mean, Im pretty sure NFL talent scouts wouldn't have rated him in the top 3 of college QBs if he was complete trash, right?

Kaiser Toro
07-31-2007, 10:53 AM
He proved he can win games without much support, without much of an OL, and without any defense.

He has good form, good pocket presence, and good arm strength.

I dont seem to get why people are so quick to label him a bust?

I mean, Im pretty sure NFL talent scouts wouldn't have rated him in the top 3 of college QBs if he was complete trash, right?

He played for Notre Dame, not an expansion team. I think he will be more Mirer than Montana myself. Parts is parts and hype is hype.

Heath Shuler
07-31-2007, 10:56 AM
Before the draft I thought he was the most overrated player on the most overrated team and I will continue to think that until he proves otherwise.

swtbound07
07-31-2007, 11:06 AM
He proved he can win games without much support, without much of an OL, and without any defense.

He has good form, good pocket presence, and good arm strength.

I dont seem to get why people are so quick to label him a bust?

I mean, Im pretty sure NFL talent scouts wouldn't have rated him in the top 3 of college QBs if he was complete trash, right?

see boller, Kyle
Leaf, Ryan
Couch, Tim
Smith, Akili
Carr, David
Harrington, Joey

Errant Hothy
07-31-2007, 11:08 AM
They NEED to make a stand for all the other teams; draft picks demanding money is getting our of control. Every year they have a new made up reason. What's his?

A. I went to Notre Dame.
B. Do you KNOW who I am?
C. I was a top 5 pick.
D. I'm pretty, white, family oriented, and religious. (sorry, couldn't resist)

E. I like to touch the crotchs of other men...ahhh...boys

C'mon we've all seen the photos...right?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v15/TheKingOfBums/2774-haha.jpg

Kaiser Toro
07-31-2007, 11:11 AM
E. I like to touch the crotchs of other men...ahhh...boys

C'mon we've all seen the photos...right?

There is a time and place for that type of behavior and its called Notre Dame.

gtexan02
07-31-2007, 11:21 AM
Now this is just turning ridiculous.

First of all, some of those QBs failed because of the system they were put into. I still believe that David's biggest problem was his own mental toughness. Same with Ryan Leaf.

Second, you listed 6 QBs in the how many years of NFL drafting? If you look at the numbers of QBs drafted in the 1st round, I guarantee you more have been sucessful than failures. And I will also guarantee you that as you move furhter down into the later rounds the % sucess continues to get lower and lower.

Why? Because NFL talent scouts scout talent. Its their job. As much as we'd all love to assume we have some sort of insight thats better than talent scouts, the fact of the matter is we don't. So if a majority of teams rate him as 1st round talent, Im going to go with that until I see otherwise

Second of all, if this is an argument about football, why not keep it about football instead of bringing up some picture? Sports players have always been too close to homosexual in my opinion, but its just the culture I guess. If you doubt me, go watch the video of Aramis Ramirez on the Lance Z blog page.

Errant Hothy
07-31-2007, 11:22 AM
Now this is just turning ridiculous.

First of all, some of those QBs failed because of the system they were put into. I still believe that David's biggest problem was his own mental toughness. Same with Ryan Leaf.

Second, you listed 6 QBs in the how many years of NFL drafting? If you look at the numbers of QBs drafted in the 1st round, I guarantee you more have been sucessful than failures. And I will also guarantee you that as you move furhter down into the later rounds the % sucess continues to get lower and lower.

Why? Because NFL talent scouts scout talent. Its their job. As much as we'd all love to assume we have some sort of insight thats better than talent scouts, the fact of the matter is we don't. So if a majority of teams rate him as 1st round talent, Im going to go with that until I see otherwise

Second of all, if this is an argument about football, why not keep it about football instead of bringing up some picture? Sports players have always been too close to homosexual in my opinion, but its just the culture I guess. If you doubt me, go watch the video of Aramis Ramirez on the Lance Z blog page.

Dude, lighten up.

real
07-31-2007, 11:24 AM
Now this is just turning ridiculous.

First of all, some of those QBs failed because of the system they were put into. I still believe that David's biggest problem was his own mental toughness. Same with Ryan Leaf.

Second, you listed 6 QBs in the how many years of NFL drafting? If you look at the numbers of QBs drafted in the 1st round, I guarantee you more have been sucessful than failures. And I will also guarantee you that as you move furhter down into the later rounds the % sucess continues to get lower and lower.

Why? Because NFL talent scouts scout talent. Its their job. As much as we'd all love to assume we have some sort of insight thats better than talent scouts, the fact of the matter is we don't. So if a majority of teams rate him as 1st round talent, Im going to go with that until I see otherwise

Second of all, if this is an argument about football, why not keep it about football instead of bringing up some picture? Sports players have always been too close to homosexual in my opinion, but its just the culture I guess. If you doubt me, go watch the video of Aramis Ramirez on the Lance Z blog page.


I dunno...

I can think of quite a few QB's to have been first round bust; likewise I can think of loads of QB's taken after the first who have been some of the games best...

swtbound07
07-31-2007, 11:24 AM
Now this is just turning ridiculous.

First of all, some of those QBs failed because of the system they were put into. I still believe that David's biggest problem was his own mental toughness. Same with Ryan Leaf.

Second, you listed 6 QBs in the how many years of NFL drafting? If you look at the numbers of QBs drafted in the 1st round, I guarantee you more have been sucessful than failures. And I will also guarantee you that as you move furhter down into the later rounds the % sucess continues to get lower and lower.

Why? Because NFL talent scouts scout talent. Its their job. As much as we'd all love to assume we have some sort of insight thats better than talent scouts, the fact of the matter is we don't. So if a majority of teams rate him as 1st round talent, Im going to go with that until I see otherwise

Second of all, if this is an argument about football, why not keep it about football instead of bringing up some picture? Sports players have always been too close to homosexual in my opinion, but its just the culture I guess. If you doubt me, go watch the video of Aramis Ramirez on the Lance Z blog page.


Okay, i popped off a couple of bust names off the top of my HEAD, not with any great research, and i was only holding to the top 3 qbs selected in any given draft, giving a lot of qbs benefit of the doubt as time to develop. Maybe ryan leaf failed because of system. Maybe he failed because is a nutcase. Maybe brady quinn will fail because he likes to grope nutcases. I dunno. I think he has a lousy arm, a pretty boy primadonna reputation, and a holdout is a bad career move. Cleveland isn't a plethora of talent, and quinn aint bringing much to the table. You can go blindly follow the scouts if you like....some of us non-sheeple prefer to think and evaluate with our own eyes.

Koolaid Time
07-31-2007, 11:37 AM
Second, you listed 6 QBs in the how many years of NFL drafting? If you look at the numbers of QBs drafted in the 1st round, I guarantee you more have been sucessful than failures. And I will also guarantee you that as you move furhter down into the later rounds the % sucess continues to get lower and lower.

OK, lets add to the "Flop List"

Andre Ware, Round 1, Pick 7
David Klingler Round 1 Pick 6

Compare to:

Tom Brady, Round 6, Pick 199

gtexan02
07-31-2007, 11:47 AM
Tom Brady, Priest Holmes, and Marques Colston will always be the anomaly I guess, cited by those who think its easy to find talent that eluded scouts

This is a stupid argument I guess, as there won't be an answer to the question for 3 years

Errant Hothy
07-31-2007, 11:49 AM
Tom Brady, Priest Holmes, and Marques Colston will always be the anomaly I guess, cited by those who think its easy to find talent that eluded scouts

Well them and the fact that about 20% of the players in the NFL went undrafted.

Immobilarity
07-31-2007, 11:49 AM
Maybe ryan leaf failed because of system. Maybe he failed because is a nutcase. Maybe brady quinn will fail because he likes to grope nutcases.This needs to be immortalized.

gtexan02
07-31-2007, 11:50 AM
1 in 5 NFL players was undrafted? Not being sarcastic or anything, I just find that to be a huge number. That would imply that every team has an average of 11 undrafted players?

Do you have a source for this, or is it just observation?

real
07-31-2007, 11:51 AM
Tom Brady, Priest Holmes, and Marques Colston will always be the anomaly I guess, cited by those who think its easy to find talent that eluded scouts

This is a stupid argument I guess, as there won't be an answer to the question for 3 years


What is this anomaly, and how does one catch it ?







Signed,



Jerry Rice, Terrell Davis and Shannon Sharpe

Errant Hothy
07-31-2007, 11:58 AM
1 in 5 NFL players was undrafted? Not being sarcastic or anything, I just find that to be a huge number. That would imply that every team has an average of 11 undrafted players?

Do you have a source for this, or is it just observation?

A little of both, some of us got into it after last years UDFA signings. See the following thread:

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22589&highlight=undrafted

Heath Shuler
07-31-2007, 12:00 PM
E. I like to touch the crotchs of other men...ahhh...boys

C'mon we've all seen the photos...right?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v15/TheKingOfBums/2774-haha.jpg

No, and I wish I had not seen that one. That is just wrong on so many levels.

Koolaid Time
07-31-2007, 12:04 PM
No, and I wish I had not seen that one. That is just wrong on so many levels.


Perhaps that photo is part of the reson he is still unsigned?? :gun:

Is the photo already posted on the Browns Message Board?

Specnatz
07-31-2007, 12:17 PM
It is not that he wants #2 pick money. It is the money on the back end of the contract. If he becomes the Browns franchise QB he wans to be paid like one. He wants a cluase or proformance bonuses into the contract so that if he is the #1 QB for the browns he wants to be paid like one.

gtexan02
07-31-2007, 12:18 PM
You can go blindly follow the scouts if you like....some of us non-sheeple prefer to think and evaluate with our own eyes.

This is a very ironic comment, and Im not targeting you in particular because I know you are a pretty avid football watcher, but this messageboard has MAJOR "sheeple-complex."

1 person makes an observation, and before you know it, the other 75% of the board is behind it.

See Vernand Morency, Kendrick Starling, Chris Taylor now, etc etc

All these counter-professional opinions may be well founded by the actual observers, but I'd be willing to bet you that a LARGE percentage of the people quipping about so and so's potential despite what the coaching staff believes or about so and so's bust possibility despite the opinion of NFL scouts have NEVER even ONCE viewed that person actually play

swtbound07
07-31-2007, 12:30 PM
Tom Brady, Priest Holmes, and Marques Colston will always be the anomaly I guess, cited by those who think its easy to find talent that eluded scouts

This is a stupid argument I guess, as there won't be an answer to the question for 3 years

no, you just had a stupid point. Draft position is not indicative of talent or success. To argue otherwise is lunacy.

gtexan02
07-31-2007, 12:41 PM
Draft position is not indicative of talent

You can say this and still say my point is lunacy?

if draft position is not indicative of talent, why not trade down all your 1st round picks for the last 7 picks in the last round?
To argue that the draft is a 100% crapshoot is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Sure there are misses. Sure there are diamonds in the rough. But the best players are frequently found in the higher rounds. I dont see how you can say anything otherwise?

swtbound07
07-31-2007, 12:47 PM
You can say this and still say my point is lunacy?

if draft position is not indicative of talent, why not trade down all your 1st round picks for the last 7 picks in the last round?
To argue that the draft is a 100% crapshoot is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Sure there are misses. Sure there are diamonds in the rough. But the best players are frequently found in the higher rounds. I dont see how you can say anything otherwise?

to say that someone will be good because they are a first round pick is dumb. Thats my point. You disagree. Your wrong. Im okay with you being wrong.

Mr. White
07-31-2007, 12:59 PM
FWIW, SWT said that Reggie Bush would be an NFL bust as well. Read the fine print.

Grain of salt not included in bust prognostications.

swtbound07
07-31-2007, 12:59 PM
FWIW, SWT said that Reggie Bush would be an NFL bust as well. Read the fine print.

Grain of salt not included in bust prognostications.

had a bust of a first season...im right on track with that prediction.

Specnatz
07-31-2007, 01:01 PM
to say that someone will be good because they are a first round pick is dumb. Thats my point. You disagree. Your wrong. Im okay with you being wrong.

Yes and to say someone will be bad when you have never watched them play is about as ignorant as you can get.

swtbound07
07-31-2007, 01:01 PM
Yes and to say someone will be bad when you have never watched them play is about as ignorant as you can get.

i watched a lot of brady quinn in college....that dog won't hunt. Try again.

gtexan02
07-31-2007, 01:05 PM
Here is an example:

Look at last years probowl. Where were the players drafted?
WRs
AJ - 1st round
CJ - 2nd round
Harrison - 1st round
Wayne - 1st round

Ts
Glenn - 1st round
McNeill - 2nd round
Light - 2nd round
Ogden - 1st round
Anderson - 1st round

C
Saturday - udfa
Hardwick - 3rd round

TE
Gates - didn't enter draft
Gonzalez - 1st round

G
Faneca - 1st round
Shields - 3rd round
Waters - udfa

QBs
Manning - 1st round
Palmer - 1st round
Young - 1st round
Rivers - 1st round

RBs
Tomlinson - 1st round
Parker - udfa
Johnson - 1st round

FB
Neal - 4th round

DE
Taylor - 3rd round
Shobel - 2nd round
Burgess - 3rd round

DT
Williams - 2nd round
Hampton - 1st round
Henderson - 1st round
Seymour - 1st round

OLBs
Suggs - 1st round
Thomas - 6th round
Merriman - 1st round

ILBs
Wilson - 1st round
Scott - udfa
Thomas - 5th round

CBs
Bailey - 1st
Mathis - 2nd
McCallister - 1st

S
Polamalu - 1st
Reed - 1st
Lynch - 3rd

Just to chart it up for you:
1st - 3rd rounders: 36 players
3rd - 7th rounders: 3 players
UDFAs: 4 (5 if you count Gates)

Yeah, go ahead and say there is no correlation between talent and draft position if you want to, but I think its pretty easy to see that the best players at the most skilled positions GENERALLY get taken higher in the draft than others. And why is that? Because there are hundreds of professional scouts whose only job is to look at players and judge where they should be drafted.

Are they correct 100% of the time? Hell no. Obviously not every player chosen in the 1st round will succeed. But to say that draft position isn't any indication of success is a little shortsighted

Texan_Bill
07-31-2007, 01:09 PM
Here are a few more first round busts at Quarterback.... (some may have been mentioned), since 1990:

Dan McGwire – Drafted 16th overall
Andre Ware – Drafted 7th overall
Todd Marinovich – Drafted 24th overall
Tommy Maddox – Drafted 25th overall
Jim Druckenmiller – Drafted 26th overall
David Klingler – Drafted 6th overall
Heath Shuler – Drafted 3rd overall
Jeff George – Drafted 1st overall

Errant Hothy
07-31-2007, 01:09 PM
Here is an example:

Look at last years probowl. Where were the players drafted?
WRs
AJ - 1st round
CJ - 2nd round
Harrison - 1st round
Wayne - 1st round

Ts
Glenn - 1st round
McNeill - 2nd round
Light - 2nd round
Ogden - 1st round
Anderson - 1st round

C
Saturday - udfa
Hardwick - 3rd round

TE
Gates - didn't enter draft
Gonzalez - 1st round

G
Faneca - 1st round
Shields - 3rd round
Waters - udfa

QBs
Manning - 1st round
Palmer - 1st round
Young - 1st round
Rivers - 1st round

RBs
Tomlinson - 1st round
Parker - udfa
Johnson - 1st round

FB
Neal - 4th round

DE
Taylor - 3rd round
Shobel - 2nd round
Burgess - 3rd round

DT
Williams - 2nd round
Hampton - 1st round
Henderson - 1st round
Seymour - 1st round

OLBs
Suggs - 1st round
Thomas - 6th round
Merriman - 1st round

ILBs
Wilson - 1st round
Scott - udfa
Thomas - 5th round

CBs
Bailey - 1st
Mathis - 2nd
McCallister - 1st

S
Polamalu - 1st
Reed - 1st
Lynch - 3rd

Just to chart it up for you:
1st - 3rd rounders: 36 players
3rd - 7th rounders: 3 players
UDFAs: 4 (5 if you count Gates)

Yeah, go ahead and say there is no correlation between talent and draft position if you want to, but I think its pretty easy to see that the best players at the most skilled positions GENERALLY get taken higher in the draft than others

First off that's just the AFC roster, and while the NFC ( http://www.nfl.com/probowl/nfc_roster )won't show a huge disparity it will add to the results (and get teh likes of Bulger, Romo and Bress not a single 1st round pick among NFC QBS at the game). Secondly it's the Pro Bowl roster, more of a popularity contest then anythig (and Brady's 6th round selection is omitted because last year was like the first in the last 5 he wasn't selected to the pro-bowl). Using the All Pro list would have been a better example.

I don't think there is any denying that players picked in the first round tend to a) be more talented and b) succed more often then those selected in the 4th or later rounds; but there have been plenty of guys selected on Day 2 or as UDFAs who have made an impact on there team. There is bust potential in all picks, 1 through Mr. Irrelevant, the difference is the freguency of busts. The exception is the QB spot which is, and alwyas will be, a crap shot no mater which round there are selected in.

Honoring Earl 34
07-31-2007, 01:11 PM
QUOTE=swtbound07;700062]i watched a lot of brady quinn in college....that dog won't hunt. Try again.[/QUOTE]


Was gonna be the cover of a magazine ... oops .


Is this where you watched him .

Texan_Bill
07-31-2007, 01:12 PM
With ALL due respect to Spec and Cuppa, Brady Quinn really does have "bust" written all over him... At least with Montana, we had a glimpse of what he would be in the 1979 Cotton Bowl v. UH.....

If you want to look at Quinns numbers, look at them in games that count.

swtbound07
07-31-2007, 01:13 PM
Here is an example:

Look at last years probowl. Where were the players drafted?
WRs
AJ - 1st round
CJ - 2nd round
Harrison - 1st round
Wayne - 1st round

Ts
Glenn - 1st round
McNeill - 2nd round
Light - 2nd round
Ogden - 1st round
Anderson - 1st round

C
Saturday - udfa
Hardwick - 3rd round

TE
Gates - didn't enter draft
Gonzalez - 1st round

G
Faneca - 1st round
Shields - 3rd round
Waters - udfa

QBs
Manning - 1st round
Palmer - 1st round
Young - 1st round
Rivers - 1st round

RBs
Tomlinson - 1st round
Parker - udfa
Johnson - 1st round

FB
Neal - 4th round

DE
Taylor - 3rd round
Shobel - 2nd round
Burgess - 3rd round

DT
Williams - 2nd round
Hampton - 1st round
Henderson - 1st round
Seymour - 1st round

OLBs
Suggs - 1st round
Thomas - 6th round
Merriman - 1st round

ILBs
Wilson - 1st round
Scott - udfa
Thomas - 5th round

CBs
Bailey - 1st
Mathis - 2nd
McCallister - 1st

S
Polamalu - 1st
Reed - 1st
Lynch - 3rd

Just to chart it up for you:
1st - 3rd rounders: 36 players
3rd - 7th rounders: 3 players
UDFAs: 4 (5 if you count Gates)

Yeah, go ahead and say there is no correlation between talent and draft position if you want to, but I think its pretty easy to see that the best players at the most skilled positions GENERALLY get taken higher in the draft than others

Now now, lets not back off what you originally said. Two entirely different points. First, there is no INHERENT correlation between talent and position. UDFA's that shine, 1 overall's that bust, etc. Its not a guarantee, and thats what your implying. Here is what you said, since you need a refresher

He proved he can win games without much support, without much of an OL, and without any defense.

He has good form, good pocket presence, and good arm strength.

I dont seem to get why people are so quick to label him a bust?

I mean, Im pretty sure NFL talent scouts wouldn't have rated him in the top 3 of college QBs if he was complete trash, right?


That statemnt is implying that somebody rated in the top 3 qb's cant be complete trash by your own admission. I then generously devoted my time to showing you some qb's that were rated in the top 3 qb's in their class that did in fact bust. Having seen the lunacy of your previous statement, you then backed into some myopic generalization about the level of talent in round 1 vs. round 7, but shielded it by still maintaining the premise that it was absolute. Then you were given examples of how players from the later rounds can be and in fact frequently are more talented then their multi-millionaire counterparts.

My final point, which coincidentally is the same one i've started with, is that looking at a player through something as completely unimportant as draft position as a filter is a stupid basis for analysis of future performance. Gee, all our late round picks are sure gonna suck...we should just cut everybody after the 4th. Brady Quinn sucks. He really, really does, and in spite of being under the magical protective umbrella of the mystical top 3 qb in any given draft year, will probably bust out miserably. Still don't believe me? Well, I won't keep you any longer. I'm sure your due over for playtime at Rex Grossman's house.

Honoring Earl 34
07-31-2007, 01:15 PM
QUOTE=swtbound07;700062]i watched a lot of brady quinn in college....that dog won't hunt. Try again.


Was gonna be the cover of a magazine ... oops .


Is this where you watched him .[/QUOTE]

http://www.bangcartoon.com/2007/postdraft.htm

gtexan02
07-31-2007, 01:24 PM
I don't think there is any denying that players picked in the first round tend to a) be more talented and b) succed more often then those selected in the 4th or later rounds; but there have been plenty of guys selected on Day 2 or as UDFAs who have made an impact on there team. There is bust potential in all picks, 1 through Mr. Irrelevant, the difference is the freguency of busts.
I agree with this, well said. Although, I dont think Mr. irrelevant failing = bust


The exception is the QB spot which is, and alwyas will be, a crap shot no mater which round there are selected in.

I dont necessarily think QB drafting is completely a crap shoot

gtexan02
07-31-2007, 01:41 PM
Now now, lets not back off what you originally said. Two entirely different points. First, there is no INHERENT correlation between talent and position. UDFA's that shine, 1 overall's that bust, etc. Its not a guarantee, and thats what your implying. Here is what you said, since you need a refresher




That statemnt is implying that somebody rated in the top 3 qb's cant be complete trash by your own admission. I then generously devoted my time to showing you some qb's that were rated in the top 3 qb's in their class that did in fact bust. Having seen the lunacy of your previous statement, you then backed into some myopic generalization about the level of talent in round 1 vs. round 7, but shielded it by still maintaining the premise that it was absolute. Then you were given examples of how players from the later rounds can be and in fact frequently are more talented then their multi-millionaire counterparts.

My final point, which coincidentally is the same one i've started with, is that looking at a player through something as completely unimportant as draft position as a filter is a stupid basis for analysis of future performance. Gee, all our late round picks are sure gonna suck...we should just cut everybody after the 4th. Brady Quinn sucks. He really, really does, and in spite of being under the magical protective umbrella of the mystical top 3 qb in any given draft year, will probably bust out miserably. Still don't believe me? Well, I won't keep you any longer. I'm sure your due over for playtime at Rex Grossman's house.

And once again, you show your "argument" intelligence by reverting to name calling and insults. Well done. I guess I could rebut by implying what I think that indicates about your personality, but Im not going to waste my time.

The previous portion of your post was true enough. I suppose my argument shifted slightly, but let me try and reconnect it for you.
#1) Talent scouts careers are based on evaluating college talent and ranking them. This is their only job.
#2) They, as all humans do, make mistakes
#3) Most of the time, they are correct in their assessments. The best players and the best positions are usually identified prior to the NFL

Now here comes the tricky part. Does draft position alone guarantee success? No, and I was off base by saying that just because he was rated top 3 he wasn't complete garbage. What I had intended to say or imply in my original post was that a QB ranked highly out of college is never a surefire bet to bust.

Lets remember that all college players are unknown commodities in the NFL

Call me ignorant if you want, but hey, I usually wait for results before making judgements.

I also happened to watch more than a few games of his. Did he look great against LSU? Nope. But I saw plenty of other instances where he looked great. I also trust Weiss, who I believe is a great coach and uses a very NFL ready system. I also trust my opinion more than yours. AND I also trust talent scouts opinions more than yours.

So I guess we'll just wait and see and what happens. You can go on believing he's 100% bust and call him a primadonna for holding out, but I think he's going to make a difference in Cleveland.

gtexan02
07-31-2007, 01:43 PM
With ALL due respect to Spec and Cuppa, Brady Quinn really does have "bust" written all over him... At least with Montana, we had a glimpse of what he would be in the 1979 Cotton Bowl v. UH.....

If you want to look at Quinns numbers, look at them in games that count.

QB Numbers don't mean much to me in terms of college success leading to NFL success. Football is too much of a team sport, and college talent level is completely all over the place to gain any sort of reliable indicators

Specnatz
07-31-2007, 01:56 PM
With ALL due respect to Spec and Cuppa, Brady Quinn really does have "bust" written all over him... At least with Montana, we had a glimpse of what he would be in the 1979 Cotton Bowl v. UH.....

If you want to look at Quinns numbers, look at them in games that count.

Peyton Sucks and has bust written all over him

Signed

The Florida Gators.

Specnatz
07-31-2007, 02:01 PM
I am not saying he is going to be Montana or even Tom Brady. There are things he does well and things he needs to improve on, but I think he can be a very good QB. Steve McNair has had very good career, no where near HoF but still a very good career.

Noblesse Oblige
07-31-2007, 03:06 PM
Here is an example:

Look at last years probowl. Where were the players drafted?
WRs
AJ - 1st round
CJ - 2nd round
Harrison - 1st round
Wayne - 1st round

Ts
Glenn - 1st round
McNeill - 2nd round
Light - 2nd round
Ogden - 1st round
Anderson - 1st round

C
Saturday - udfa
Hardwick - 3rd round

TE
Gates - didn't enter draft
Gonzalez - 1st round

G
Faneca - 1st round
Shields - 3rd round
Waters - udfa

QBs
Manning - 1st round
Palmer - 1st round
Young - 1st round
Rivers - 1st round

RBs
Tomlinson - 1st round
Parker - udfa
Johnson - 1st round

FB
Neal - 4th round

DE
Taylor - 3rd round
Shobel - 2nd round
Burgess - 3rd round

DT
Williams - 2nd round
Hampton - 1st round
Henderson - 1st round
Seymour - 1st round

OLBs
Suggs - 1st round
Thomas - 6th round
Merriman - 1st round

ILBs
Wilson - 1st round
Scott - udfa
Thomas - 5th round

CBs
Bailey - 1st
Mathis - 2nd
McCallister - 1st

S
Polamalu - 1st
Reed - 1st
Lynch - 3rd

Just to chart it up for you:
1st - 3rd rounders: 36 players
3rd - 7th rounders: 3 players
UDFAs: 4 (5 if you count Gates)

Yeah, go ahead and say there is no correlation between talent and draft position if you want to, but I think its pretty easy to see that the best players at the most skilled positions GENERALLY get taken higher in the draft than others. And why is that? Because there are hundreds of professional scouts whose only job is to look at players and judge where they should be drafted.

Are they correct 100% of the time? Hell no. Obviously not every player chosen in the 1st round will succeed. But to say that draft position isn't any indication of success is a little shortsighted

right, the draft is about probability of success. A player for the first round is more likely to be a better player than someone from the 7th. That's not to say it's always true, but it's supposed to be about minimizing risk.

YoungTexanFan
07-31-2007, 04:52 PM
He proved he can win games without much support, without much of an OL, and without any defense.

He has good form, good pocket presence, and good arm strength.

I dont seem to get why people are so quick to label him a bust?

I mean, Im pretty sure NFL talent scouts wouldn't have rated him in the top 3 of college QBs if he was complete trash, right?

Signed,
David Carr

Errant Hothy
07-31-2007, 04:55 PM
Signed,
David Carr

Among several others.

swtbound07
07-31-2007, 04:57 PM
Okay, i popped off a couple of bust names off the top of my HEAD, not with any great research, and i was only holding to the top 3 qbs selected in any given draft, giving a lot of qbs benefit of the doubt as time to develop. Maybe ryan leaf failed because of system. Maybe he failed because is a nutcase. Maybe brady quinn will fail because he likes to grope nutcases. I dunno. I think he has a lousy arm, a pretty boy primadonna reputation, and a holdout is a bad career move. Cleveland isn't a plethora of talent, and quinn aint bringing much to the table. You can go blindly follow the scouts if you like....some of us non-sheeple prefer to think and evaluate with our own eyes.

sometimes i really crack myself up

BeerTastesLikeVictory
07-31-2007, 05:06 PM
I have nothing to add to the conversation other than I would like to ban the word "sheeple" from the english language.

Honoring Earl 34
07-31-2007, 05:12 PM
sometimes i really crack myself up

Groping what ?

gtexan02
07-31-2007, 05:13 PM
I have nothing to add, either. Except to say that if he's holding out for his FUTURE before he plays 1 down with his team, both he and his agent should get spanked. That is absurd.

Except for the fact that there is total precedent

Rookie contracts have completely and 100% gotten ridiculous. Because teams can cut players at any time for any reason, they have to negotiate for big money contracts.

I think the problem with Quinn is that he is trying to make sure that if he lives up to his top 10 predraft ranking, he'll get paid for it. Its a money-driven world, what can you do?

Mr. White
07-31-2007, 05:18 PM
I was watching the NFL Network's draft coverage. Schefter and Mayock were keeping a running count of the money that Quinn was probably losing while he was waiting to get drafted.

Every time somebody got picked, Quinn's money decreased exponentially. I wish I remembered the figure that they came up with. It was staggering.

Honoring Earl 34
07-31-2007, 05:29 PM
And another day is about to end with no deal. Wonder what he's doing for money?

http://faniq.com/blog/Brady-Quinn-Already-Throwing-Incomplete-Passes-Charging-75-For-An-Autograph-Blog-3453

Blazing Arrow
07-31-2007, 05:30 PM
And another day is about to end with no deal. Wonder what he's doing for money?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v15/TheKingOfBums/2774-haha.jpg

HOU-TEX
07-31-2007, 05:30 PM
And another day is about to end with no deal. Wonder what he's doing for money?

Endorsements maybe?

Mr. White
07-31-2007, 05:31 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v15/TheKingOfBums/2774-haha.jpg

That was too easy.

Blazing Arrow
07-31-2007, 05:43 PM
That was too easy.

I bet that kid in the middle is not thinking that :shades:

Texan_Bill
07-31-2007, 05:45 PM
Peyton Sucks and has bust written all over him

Signed

The Florida Gators.

Touche'!! However, Peyton came with good genes, he wasnt busy placing his hands on other people's jeans....

real
07-31-2007, 05:46 PM
Peyton Sucks and has bust written all over him

Signed

The Florida Gators.

You should be my agent



signed,



Tim Couch

Noblesse Oblige
07-31-2007, 06:35 PM
Oh for crying out loud. I hope they don't sign him now. Little punk.

He needs to change the people he has surrounding him. He's getting bad advice. Of course he should be smart enough to know better than to alienate your fans so early on.

Texan_Bill
07-31-2007, 06:37 PM
I heard Notre Dame paid better than the NFL anyway, so why not sit back and sign some autographs for a couple of bucks while holding out... ?

Maddict5
07-31-2007, 06:57 PM
I've been calling for quinn as a bust for literally months now...was absolutely terrified of him ending up here. That cold sweat lasted from the second the dolphins passed on him until we got amobi.....man he is going to suck.

funny my fear of that ended the second i heard we traded for schaub..:whip:

cuppacoffee
07-31-2007, 10:19 PM
With ALL due respect to Spec and Cuppa, Brady Quinn really does have "bust" written all over him... At least with Montana, we had a glimpse of what he would be in the 1979 Cotton Bowl v. UH.....

If you want to look at Quinns numbers, look at them in games that count.


I hope it is alright with you and swt :rolleyes:...if I think that Quinn will be a franchise QB...

You read 'bust' written all over him, I read 'franchise QB'.

To try and convince you otherwise would be as foolish and futile as trying to convince me otherwise. :yawn:

Only time will tell.

Quinn needs to get into camp.

:coffee:

Wolf
07-31-2007, 10:27 PM
Browns quarterback Brady Quinn made an appearance at Great Northern Mall in suburban Cleveland to sign autographs Saturday afternoon, but fans weren't pleased when they got there.

A local TV station reports that the lowest-priced item Quinn would sign was a $75 signed picture. He charged up to $225 for other merchandise.

Several fans called NewsChannel5 saying they thought they could bring anything for the Browns QB to sign. But then they found out they had to buy either an autographed picture or previously signed merchandise. They said there was no advertising that autograph seekers would have to pay. The station tried to reach mall officials and the local radio station which sponsored the event, but could not get any information.

Hey, considering that Quinn's rookie contract is going to pay him $15 million or $20 million less than he was expecting when he left Notre Dame, he probably figures he has to make money any way he can.

http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/tag/BradyQuinn/
it was posted a link earlier but

wow i don't understand that move

The Pencil Neck
07-31-2007, 10:38 PM
http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/tag/BradyQuinn/
it was posted a link earlier but

wow i don't understand that move


Man's gotta take care of his family. :pirate:

Blazing Arrow
07-31-2007, 11:03 PM
Man's gotta take care of his family. :pirate:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v15/TheKingOfBums/2774-haha.jpg

now that one was to easy .... :cowboy1:

Wolf
07-31-2007, 11:13 PM
or atleast their family jewels http://jordan.fortwayne.com/jgbreak/fred/YaBBImages/smilies/drummer.gif

well we need a drummer smilie(not that one) for the one liners (or in my case the attempted one-liner)

Immobilarity
07-31-2007, 11:22 PM
And it's Immobilarity with the assist!

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w33/jackals_incarnation/rimshot.gif

Wolf
07-31-2007, 11:50 PM
And it's Immobilarity with the assist!

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w33/jackals_incarnation/rimshot.gif


maybe Khari can add that one.. It seems to fit the build

Koolaid Time
07-31-2007, 11:54 PM
With ALL due respect to Spec and Cuppa, Brady Quinn really does have "bust" written all over him... At least with Montana, we had a glimpse of what he would be in the 1979 Cotton Bowl v. UH....

Don't get me started about THAT game.... I was there, sitting on a 1/4 inch of ice, on the seat in the lower deck of the Cotton Bowl simply because I was dating a woman that was a member of the UH (a/k/a "Cougar High") Band... and I left at the end of the 3rd quarter, with UH having a big lead.. and I made it to Corsicana, where I-45 was closed because of ice... and I spent the night in the National Guard Armory in Corsicana....

....and Montana brought back ND to win!

Damn it !

The Pencil Neck
08-01-2007, 12:44 AM
Don't get me started about THAT game.... I was there, sitting on a 1/4 inch of ice, on the seat in the lower deck of the Cotton Bowl simply because I was dating a woman that was a member of the UH (a/k/a "Cougar High") Band... and I left at the end of the 3rd quarter, with UH having a big lead.. and I made it to Corsicana, where I-45 was closed because of ice... and I spent the night in the National Guard Armory in Corsicana....

....and Montana brought back ND to win!

Damn it !


Don't.

Just.

Don't.

Immobilarity
08-01-2007, 09:20 AM
It sounds like it was worse than 35-3.

Texan_Bill
08-01-2007, 02:13 PM
Don't get me started about THAT game.... I was there, sitting on a 1/4 inch of ice, on the seat in the lower deck of the Cotton Bowl simply because I was dating a woman that was a member of the UH (a/k/a "Cougar High") Band... and I left at the end of the 3rd quarter, with UH having a big lead.. and I made it to Corsicana, where I-45 was closed because of ice... and I spent the night in the National Guard Armory in Corsicana....

....and Montana brought back ND to win!

Damn it !

While I hated that loss as much as you, I will admit, I did watch it from the cozy confines of my living room.... I do know people that went to it too. They talked about the frozen pipes in the restrooms, sitting in the ice on the seating, etc... brutal, brutal day!!

stingray
08-01-2007, 03:05 PM
This is a dumb argument. Reminds me of people that argue that there is no correlation between smoking and dying younger. "Well, I knew scooter martin and he smoked three packs a day and he lived to be 103 years old." Yeah, there is anomalies but evidence wil show you that most Hall of fame Qb's were drafted in the first three rounds and most of those were in the first.

real
08-01-2007, 03:11 PM
This is a dumb argument. Reminds me of people that argue that there is no correlation between smoking and dying younger. "Well, I knew scooter martin and he smoked three packs a day and he lived to be 103 years old." Yeah, there is anomalies but evidence wil show you that most Hall of fame Qb's were drafted in the first three rounds and most of those were in the first.

Not sure what that has to do with anything...

Saying most great QB's were first rounders says nothing about the probablility of whether or not any given QB taken in the first round will bust...

You can say that a first round QB is more likely going to be great vs. someone taken in the later rounds, but being taken in the first doesn't allude to someone being a great QB...

Now THAT is silly...

hollywood_texan
08-01-2007, 03:16 PM
It's more likely a 1st round QB selection, or any 1st round selection for that matter, is a bust than a success.

Texan_Bill
08-01-2007, 03:19 PM
Take the vaunted class of '83 (arguably the best draft of QB's ever):

John Elway (first overall),
Todd Blackledge, (7th Overall)
Jim Kelly (14th Overall)
Tony Eason (15th Overall)
Ken O’brien (24th Overall)
Dan Marino (27th and last QB drafted in round 1),

3 HoF's and 3 busts.... 50/50

stingray
08-01-2007, 03:28 PM
Not sure what that has to do with anything...

Saying most great QB's were first rounders says nothing about the probablility of whether or not any given QB taken in the first round will bust...

You can say that a first round QB is more likely going to be great vs. someone taken in the later rounds, but being taken in the first doesn't allude to someone being a great QB...

Now THAT is silly...

Of course it does say something about the probabiltiy of being a bust. The probability of being a bust is smaller when taken in the first round. That is why they were taken in the first round!

Last five hall of fame QB's

Troy Aikman- First overall Pick
Dan Marino-First Round
Steve Young-Would have been a first rounder but signed with USFL.
John Elway-First Pick
Jim Kelly- First Round.

ANd there's Drew Bledsoe, First Pick and porbably will be in the Hall.

swtbound07
08-01-2007, 03:35 PM
Of course it does say something about the probabiltiy of being a bust. The probability of being a bust is smaller when taken in the first round. That is why they were taken in the first round!

Last five hall of fame QB's

Troy Aikman- First overall Pick
Dan Marino-First Round
Steve Young-Would have been a first rounder but signed with USFL.
John Elway-First Pick
Jim Kelly- First Round.

ANd there's Drew Bledsoe, First Pick and porbably will be in the Hall.

you don't really know what probablility means do you? How many qb's were selected in that time period. The ratio of bust-non bust is significantly higher in the bust direction. Cherry pick the good ones if you like but your fooling nobody.

real
08-01-2007, 03:40 PM
Of course it does say something about the probabiltiy of being a bust. The probability of being a bust is smaller when taken in the first round. That is why they were taken in the first round!


You still don't get it...

If QB A was taken in the first round and QB B in the second round, sure it is more likely that QB A will be more successful than QB B...

to that I say duhh....

But when you're talking about QB A standing alone and his chances of success in the leauge (if probability is the way you judge a QB chances of success, which is stupid in itself) you have to look at only QB's taken in the first round...

If you are only looking at QB's taken in the first you will probably see that there are just as many bust, and mediocre players as there are great ones...

Being taken in the first round doesn't mean you are any more likely to have more success or failure than any other QB taken in the first round...

To put it in example form: Brady Quinn (a 1st rounder) is no more likely to succeed than David Carr (a first rounder).....Jamarcus Russel is no more likely to fail than Tim Couch...

All being taken in the first round means is that you are probably better than guys taken in the second and beyond...doesn't say anything about that individuals shot at being a great QB...

Do you get it now ?

real
08-01-2007, 03:49 PM
Take the vaunted class of '83 (arguably the best draft of QB's ever):

John Elway (first overall),
Todd Blackledge, (7th Overall)
Jim Kelly (14th Overall)
Tony Eason (15th Overall)
Ken O’brien (24th Overall)
Dan Marino (27th and last QB drafted in round 1),

3 HoF's and 3 busts.... 50/50

Pretty much my point....

Being taken in the first round only says you are more likely to succeed than those taken below you...

It doesn't mean you are just flat out more likely to succeed...

stingray
08-01-2007, 03:49 PM
you don't really know what probablility means do you? How many qb's were selected in that time period. The ratio of bust-non bust is significantly higher in the bust direction. Cherry pick the good ones if you like but your fooling nobody.

I guess I don't know what probabilty means, I guess i'm just not as smart as you... You seem to know everything, and if you don't you make it up.

I am talking about the probabilty of Qb's turning out to be great in the first round compared to the ones in the later rounds. I am not comparing QB's in the first round who turned out to be great to those QB's who were taken in the first round and who didn't turn out to be great.

and I could care less about the word "bust". The word bust is linked to players taken in the early rounds and don't turn out to do anything. Just like a player taken in the later rounds are given the label "he just dind't pan out".
A player is drafted to play in the NFL. Players taken early are "thought" to have a better chance to have a more successful career.

swtbound07
08-01-2007, 03:51 PM
I guess I don't know what probabilty means, I guess i'm just not as smart as you... You seem to know everything, and if you don't you make it up.

I am talking about the probabilty of Qb's turning out to be great in the first round compared to the ones in the later rounds. I am not comparing QB's in the first round who turned out to be great to those QB's who were taken in the first round and who didn't turn out to be great.

and I could care less about the word "bust". The word bust is linked to players taken in the early rounds and don't turn out to do anything. Just like a player taken in the later rounds are given the label "he just dind't pan out".
A player is drafted to play in the NFL. Players taken early are "thought" to have a better chance to have a more successful career.

thats not at all what you said.

real
08-01-2007, 03:52 PM
I am talking about the probabilty of Qb's turning out to be great in the first round compared to the ones in the later rounds.

I don't understand your point...:um:

No one was comparing Quinn to another player...

the only thing being discussed is his individual chances at being successful...

What does Quinns chances of success have to do with players taken in later rounds ?

Is he more likely to succeed than those guys....Sure...But again, that doesn't mean he's morelikely to be a great QB....he just has a better shot at it than those other guys...

real
08-01-2007, 04:03 PM
*back to elementary*

Student A is a good bike rider. Student B is only half as good a bike rider as student A.

If two good bike riders (student C &D) ride their bikes 4 times a piece and student C falls 1 time and student D falls 3 times, what is the probabilty of the times Student A will fall off his bike vs Student B ?

Answe: Student A has a 50% chance at success and student B has a 25% chance at success

Can't make it any more simple than that

Sure student A is more likely to be successful than than student B, but that doesn't mean he's more likely to have great individual success...

stingray
08-01-2007, 04:07 PM
I don't understand your point...:um:

No one was comparing Quinn to another player...

the only thing being discussed is his individual chances at being successful...

What does Quinns chances of success have to do with players taken in later rounds ?

Is he more likely to succeed than those guys....Sure...But again, that doesn't mean he's morelikely to be a great QB....he just has a better shot at it than those other guys...

I'm gonna get away from the argument of first round busts to other busts. It's just like the dog who chases his tail around. Getting nowhere. I think you understand what i am saying and I understand what you are saying.

MY poiny is that nobody knows if Quinn will be a bust. You called him a bust. You don't know that. Nobody knows. But listening to interviews of most scouts, they tend to believe he will be a very good Qb, like a carson Palmer. You called him a Bust. If most experts thought that he is going to be a bust, then he would have fallen much higher. And I don't believe what every NFL talking head says. But I do like to listen to expert analysis. And I also like how he handled the pressure at Notre Dame and the day of the draft. I think he is a tough Kid

real
08-01-2007, 04:11 PM
I'm gonna get away from the argument of first round busts to other busts. It's just like the dog who chases his tail around. Getting nowhere. I think you understand what i am saying and I understand what you are saying.

MY poiny is that nobody knows if Quinn will be a bust. You called him a bust. You don't know that. Nobody knows. But listening to interviews of most scouts, they tend to believe he will be a very good Qb, like a carson Palmer. You called him a Bust. If most experts thought that he is going to be a bust, then he would have fallen much higher. And I don't believe what every NFL talking head says. But I do like to listen to expert analysis. And I also like how he handled the pressure at Notre Dame and the day of the draft. I think he is a tough Kid


I don't know because I can't predict the future.

But what I can do is form an educated opinion based on things I've seen and haven't seen.

If you can't deal with that....tough...

I have my opinion, you have yours.

stingray
08-01-2007, 04:12 PM
*back to elementary*

Student A is a good bike rider. Student B is only half as good a bike rider as student A.

If two good bike riders (student C &D) ride their bikes 4 times a piece and student C falls 1 time and student D falls 3 times, what is the probabilty of the times Student A will fall of his bike vs Student B ?

Answe: Student A has a 50% chance at success and student B has a 25% chance at success

Can't make it any more simple than that

Sure student A is more likely to be successful than than student B, but that doesn't mean he's more likely to have great individual success...

This argument is over. You seem to get gratification from patronizing people. Adios......

gtexan02
08-01-2007, 04:15 PM
You're wrong, no you're wrong

Haven't we had this argument before?

The problem with this is that there is no solution until Brady Quinn plays a few years in the NFL

gg no re
08-01-2007, 08:36 PM
Question

How do the Browns centers feel about Brady's feel for the ball?

The Pencil Neck
08-01-2007, 10:00 PM
Question

How do the Browns centers feel about Brady's feel for the ball?


I think he's got that situation firmly in hand.

cuppacoffee
08-06-2007, 03:22 AM
That's very true. I can't believe pimping autographs!

You do realize that this was a charity event and all monies went to charity, not to Quinn.



:coffee:

Specnatz
08-06-2007, 03:33 AM
You do realize that this was a charity event and all monies went to charity, not to Quinn.



:coffee:

I refrained from commenting on this cause so many people trashed Quinn and not all the other unsigned players. Besides, certain people who I have respect for made comments I did not like. But I expect that, but to trash a player for being signed and for signing autographs .. yet some give vick a reasonable doubt, go figure.

But reading only half the story from unreal newsources. Not every team has a reporter on fan hose like the Texans doyou have to know not all the facts will be represented. Texans fans are lucky and have a person who will get all the facts on fan house before making bogus statements is not the norm.

Makes me happy to be a Texan!!!!!


:texflag:

:texans chick:

Texan_Bill
08-06-2007, 08:22 AM
Out of respect for Spec and Cuppa, I will refrain from making anymore comments about Quinn.... :X: Except for this: gg and Pencil Neck - y'all are too funny!!!

Kaiser Toro
08-06-2007, 09:37 AM
It it unimaginable, but in my opininon, VY had better representation than this primadonna. That Irish gold is looking like fool's gold for the Browns as every day passes.

BigTimeTexanFan
08-06-2007, 09:43 AM
I was listening to John McClain about how he is still holding out and wants top 5 money because he's a quarterback. I can't beleive this guy. I remember watching the draft and how embarrassed he was. He even left because the cameras were constantly on him. I feel like the Browns did him a favor by trading back up in the 1st to take him. Now he's holding out because he feels like he should have been taken higher? Well guess what, you weren't, you were taken at 22 so take your money and get your *** into camp. Witht the way rookie salaries are these days, he's already going to make more jack that probably half the guys already on the team. I think he's setting himself up for a big fall. Not only is he wayyy behind everyone else, but now he's irritating his teammates. Memo to Brady Quinn, you should be thankful the Browns took you at 22 because who knows where you would have been taken. Shut up and sign your contract.

I feel better now:wild:

YoungTexanFan
08-06-2007, 11:21 AM
I cannot agree more. He had a great chance to earn the starting spot. He had a lot going for him, and he would still be making damn good money. He isn't a top 5 talent to start with anyways. QB or not, he has really destroyed a lot of the "could have been" for this season.

HOU-TEX
08-06-2007, 11:23 AM
Quinn will be an NFL bust. What ever he get's paid will be too much.:wild:

gg no re
08-06-2007, 11:27 AM
I found this from an unknown source.
At least he gets to start.

cuppacoffee
08-06-2007, 11:30 AM
It it unimaginable, but in my opininon, VY had better representation than this primadonna. That Irish gold is looking like fool's gold for the Browns as every day passes.


I don't know about the prima donna part, but Quinn needs to tell his agent to get it done.

Pros hire an agent to get them the best deal, but at some point reason has to enter into the equation.

I am one of the few around here who think that Quinn will be a franchise qb for the Browns. He needs to get into camp and prove it.


:coffee:

Double Barrel
08-06-2007, 12:01 PM
If the kid misses much more of training camp, he can kiss his chances for playing this year goodbye. I mean, at least playing to be effective. Maybe they'll give him some mop-up duty or something, but I can't see him competing for the starting job without the pre-season reps and experience.

BigTimeTexanFan
08-06-2007, 12:06 PM
Except for the fact that there is total precedent

Rookie contracts have completely and 100% gotten ridiculous. Because teams can cut players at any time for any reason, they have to negotiate for big money contracts.

I think the problem with Quinn is that he is trying to make sure that if he lives up to his top 10 predraft ranking, he'll get paid for it. Its a money-driven world, what can you do?
That's exactly what he is doing. He was ranked high prior to the draft, so he feels entitled to be paid like it. He's forgetting one thing, the people doing the pre draft rankings are not the same ones actually drafting players. Just because he feels like he should have been taken higher means nothing. He was taken at 22, so he needs to get paid like a player taken at 22. If he turns out to be a star quarterback, then he can negotiate from there. I will be extremely dissapointed in the Browns if they cave.

Specnatz
08-06-2007, 01:56 PM
Out of respect for Spec and Cuppa, I will refrain from making anymore comments about Quinn.... :X: Except for this: gg and Pencil Neck - y'all are too funny!!!

Comments like theirs, are funny and I have no issues with them, Bill. Saying he should get into camp and stop all this nonsense his agent is feeding him, is dead on.

It was the other attacks that kinda amazed me. Also, at the time he was the only one being attacked and not J Russell or Darrell Revis (whom some wanted as a Texan) and Dwayne Bowe.

He is getting some real bad advice about continuing to holdout for more money in the 4th and 5th year of the contract.

Specnatz
08-06-2007, 02:15 PM
He does not want top 5 money, I wish you folks would listen before sticking your foot in your mouth. He wants certain guarantees that if he becomes the starter that by the 4th and 5th year he is then paid like a franchise QB. It is the backend of the contract that is holding everything up. Which of course is still not smart in my opinion, but that is not the real point. The point is you are not reading everything and making comments that are wrong.

gtexan02
08-06-2007, 02:29 PM
He does not want top 5 money, I wish you folks would listen before sticking your foot in your mouth. He wants certain guarantees that if he becomes the starter that by the 4th and 5th year he is then paid like a franchise QB. It is the backend of the contract that is holding everything up. Which of course is still not smart in my opinion, but that is not the real point. The point is you are not reading everything and making comments that are wrong.


Brady Quinn is a love to hate kind of guy, and this messageboard exemplifies that perfectly. David Carr was always a bit of a "pretty boy", and so now this board seems destined to talk down about any "pretty boy" QBs, Quinn included.

It doesn't matter what the details are or that JaMarcus Russel, Dwayne Bowe, Darrel Revis, and whoever else are also STILL HOLDING OUT. Its that people love to hate Quinn, and thats why there are 2 topics with the same dime-a-dozen insults about his masculinity or childishness or greediness and none on the other players.

swtbound07
08-06-2007, 03:15 PM
find me a picture of revis grasping testicles and then we'll talk.

gtexan02
08-06-2007, 03:16 PM
find me a picture of revis grasping testicles and then we'll talk.

I rest my case

swtbound07
08-06-2007, 03:19 PM
I rest my case

no, im just offering an alternate theory as to why people question his *ahem* masculinity. I'm perfectly willing to have these conversations about the other holdouts...just find me a picture

gtexan02
08-06-2007, 03:24 PM
There are either two options here;

1, you think Brady Quinn is actually a homosexual because of some stupid frat boy looking picture

OR

2, its just another lame, highly overposted attempt at deriding a player that is oh so trendy to insult

If your choice is #1, then I'd be happy to point out many, many other homosexual-ish tendencies in pro sports (the aramis ramirez crotch grope, coach to player's butt pat, the entire sport of wrestling)

If your choice is #2, then my point is made. Its fun and easy to insult Quinn, so people who actually are interested to see how he does in the NFL are left with only the same 3 or 4 insults that the "masses" have come up with.

swtbound07
08-06-2007, 03:29 PM
There are either two options here;

1, you think Brady Quinn is actually a homosexual because of some stupid frat boy looking picture

OR

2, its just another lame, highly overposted attempt at deriding a player that is oh so trendy to insult

If your choice is #1, then I'd be happy to point out many, many other homosexual-ish tendencies in pro sports (the aramis ramirez crotch grope, coach to player's butt pat, the entire sport of wrestling)

If your choice is #2, then my point is made. Its fun and easy to insult Quinn, so people who actually are interested to see how he does in the NFL are left with only the same 3 or 4 insults that the "masses" have come up with.

no no, lets not backtrack. You asked why quinn got these insults at the expense of the other HOLDOUTS. Find one of them grabbing wood. Go.

TexansLucky13
08-06-2007, 03:33 PM
http://www.nflhs.com/images/PI/qb3_PeytonManning2006_250.jpg

Peyton's masculinity is now in question as well.

hollywood_texan
08-06-2007, 03:36 PM
you think Brady Quinn is actually a homosexual because of some stupid frat boy looking picture...

There is more to this situation than just one picture.

Actually, there is more than 1 picture out there anyway.

gtexan02
08-06-2007, 03:36 PM
no no, lets not backtrack. You asked why quinn got these insults at the expense of the other HOLDOUTS. Find one of them grabbing wood. Go.

If you'd like to search for "testicles" and "Darrel Revis" or "Jamarcus russel" be my guest, but im not about to go asking for the sites that will pop up in response that sort of search

If that picture is the only reason Quinn is getting more attention than the multiple other holdouts, then thats even sadder than before. Some 150 people have posted and thousands have viewed a topic based solely on some lame ass college picture?

gtexan02
08-06-2007, 03:37 PM
There is more to this situation than just one picture.

Actually, there is more than 1 picture out there anyway.


So then people really think that Brady Quinn is homosexual, and thats what got this entire board upset?

If you saw Schaub grabbing AJs crotch, would you be upset? Or is it just pretty boys that bother you?

swtbound07
08-06-2007, 03:40 PM
If you'd like to search for "testicles" and "Darrel Revis" or "Jamarcus russel" be my guest, but im not about to go asking for the sites that will pop up in response that sort of search

If that picture is the only reason Quinn is getting more attention than the multiple other holdouts, then thats even sadder than before. Some 150 people have posted and thousands have viewed a topic based solely on some lame ass college picture?

no, thats just MOST of the explanation for the gay jokes. If you want to delve into why other players don't get mocked for playing soft, being products of predraft hype, and not having the tools capable of suceeding in the NFL, then we can do that as well. yeah, the world is against your boy quinn. Nobody wants him to succeed. More to the point, nobody cares. Except for a brief moment of terror that we might actually draft the schmuck, I have no more interest in Brady Quinn's career then i do say.....aaron rodgers. I get it, you love the guy and want us to play nice. Least Amobi wasn't caught on film getting A-gropy.

Vinny
08-06-2007, 03:44 PM
If you saw Schaub grabbing AJs crotch, would you be upset? Or is it just pretty boys that bother you?
yeah...that would bother me
If that picture is the only reason Quinn is getting more attention than the multiple other holdouts, then thats even sadder than before. Some 150 people have posted and thousands have viewed a topic based solely on some lame ass college picture?he's getting more attention because he is 1) a first round QB and 2) he is asking for top 5 money...and nobody wanted to pay him that or he would have been a top 5 pick.

...and yeah, those pics are just really stupid of him...makes him look like a fool....at least to me it does.

gtexan02
08-06-2007, 03:52 PM
no, thats just MOST of the explanation for the gay jokes. If you want to delve into why other players don't get mocked for playing soft, being products of predraft hype, and not having the tools capable of suceeding in the NFL, then we can do that as well. yeah, the world is against your boy quinn. Nobody wants him to succeed. More to the point, nobody cares. Except for a brief moment of terror that we might actually draft the schmuck, I have no more interest in Brady Quinn's career then i do say.....aaron rodgers. I get it, you love the guy and want us to play nice. Least Amobi wasn't caught on film getting A-gropy.


Actually, I couldn't really care less whether Brady Quinn suceeds or fails, except itd be great for him to prove people wrong. I also am hoping the Browns finally caught a break, as again, I like rooting for the underdog. Ive actually carried a disdain for most things ND/ND players (except for Rudy) because of some of the people I know who went there.

The point is that personally, I dont have any care one way or the other for him, except that I think its beyond stupid to be so 100% on the bust prediction for a guy who has never played a down.

And so I get stuck in this devils advocate role which is byond dumb, because its impossible to argue or debate with people who are utterly convinced of their own superiority and perfection

So here goes my final thoughts on the issue that I will finally let until I actually see him play a game



Brady Quinn is stupid for holding out this long

The contract dispute isn't because he wants more money up front, its because he wants more incentive based money for if he performs at a high level

There is a funny picture of him looking like a dumbass

Im pretty sure he's not actually gay

I dont care if pro athletes are gay, and find it sad that the pro athlete world is the least accepting of sexual preference

I think saying with 100% certainty that someone will bust before playing a snap in the NFL is just as stupid as making someone the highest paid player in franchise history without playing a snap in the NFL

I think there is a good chance that Quinn will be a good QB for the Browns

I also aknowledge that like the rest of rookies drafted, there is a decent chance that he could end up sucking

I hope he plays well because I like the Browns

Thats all

gtexan02
08-06-2007, 03:57 PM
yeah...that would bother mehe's getting more attention because he is 1) a first round QB and 2) he is asking for top 5 money...and nobody wanted to pay him that or he would have been a top 5 pick.

...and yeah, those pics are just really stupid of him...makes him look like a fool....at least to me it does.


1) there is another 1st round QB who is asking for 30 mil guaranteed and getting no attention

2) hes not asking for top 5 money, he's asking for escalator clauses on the back end of his contract if he becomes the franchise QB

Vinny
08-06-2007, 04:08 PM
1) there is another 1st round QB who is asking for 30 mil guaranteed and getting no attention

2) hes not asking for top 5 money, he's asking for escalator clauses on the back end of his contract if he becomes the franchise QB1) he's the top pick in the draft....Those guys get the money...not the guy that slid to the back half of the round.
2) I didn't know you were his agent....he has less potential than Russell does...or perhaps someone would have picked him sooner methinks.

gtexan02
08-06-2007, 04:11 PM
1) he's the top pick in the draft....Those guys get the money...not the guy that slid to the back half of the round.
2) I didn't know you were his agent....he has less potential than Russell does...or perhaps someone would have picked him sooner methinks.

Im not his agent, I just happened to take the 2 minutes to read the article titled "Escalator clauses holding up Quinn contract talks"

It mentions that they are pretty close on guaranteed money, but are way off on incentive based money.

I dont know what potential has to do with it really. I just think its beyond crazy how this messageboard seem sto defend huge guaranteed rookie deals, but get all into a tizzy about someone asking for incentive based money. How backwards is that?

I post a topic on how I think its stupid that CJ is the highest paid Lion in franchise history, and people get all over me saying that rookies shoudl ask for a lot of money and that they can get injured, and that they risk their lives, and that its all capitalism

Than I post a defense for Quinn asking for higher pay based on his playing ability, and I get blasted.

I just dont get your line of thinking, sorry.

hollywood_texan
08-06-2007, 04:14 PM
So then people really think that Brady Quinn is homosexual, and thats what got this entire board upset?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I am not upset about it at all.

I could care less.

I just call them how I see them.

Why do you think people are upset about it anyway?

If you saw Schaub grabbing AJs crotch, would you be upset?

No.

Just win baby!


Or is it just pretty boys that bother you?

If I make the observation that I think somebody is gay but doesn't want to admit it, why do you assume it bothers me?

I could care less.

I have a more defensable arguement that Quinn is gay than you arguing that it bothers me. You don't even know me.

gtexan02
08-06-2007, 04:15 PM
I can't speak for anyone else, but I am not upset about it at all.



clearly i misinterpreted, sorry.

It just seems there are 3 camps out there.
1 camp is convinced the guy is a pretty boy ball grabber and loves to hate him for it
1 camp is convinced he is a greedy bastard trying to get paid top 5 mula
1 camp is convinced he is the 2nd coming of David Carr and will bust Ryan leaf style

I mislabeled you. Personally, I think all 3 are dumb at this point in the year

Vinny
08-06-2007, 04:25 PM
clearly i misinterpreted, sorry.

It just seems there are 3 camps out there.
1 camp is convinced the guy is a pretty boy ball grabber and loves to hate him for it
1 camp is convinced he is a greedy bastard trying to get paid top 5 mula
1 camp is convinced he is the 2nd coming of David Carr and will bust Ryan leaf style

I mislabeled you. Personally, I think all 3 are dumb at this point in the year
I don't think he is all that great a prospect....the ball grabbing doesn't do much for football fans...most of us aren't gay or bi from what I gather...football fans are probably a bit homophobic to boot....so yeah, he's gonna get some unwanted attention from the fans of the game...we kinda like to give a bunch of virtual noogies....cause thats how we roll.

swtbound07
08-06-2007, 04:29 PM
clearly i misinterpreted, sorry.

It just seems there are 3 camps out there.
1 camp is convinced the guy is a pretty boy ball grabber and loves to hate him for it
1 camp is convinced he is a greedy bastard trying to get paid top 5 mula
1 camp is convinced he is the 2nd coming of David Carr and will bust Ryan leaf style

I mislabeled you. Personally, I think all 3 are dumb at this point in the year

im actually firmly in camps 1,2, and 3. Can we settle for worthless excuse for a prospect? Virtual noogies for all!

gtexan02
08-06-2007, 04:31 PM
I don't think he is all that great a prospect....the ball grabbing doesn't do much for football fans...most of us aren't gay or bi from what I gather...football fans are probably a bit homophobic to boot....so yeah, he's gonna get some unwanted attention from the fans of the game...we kinda like to give a bunch of virtual noogies....cause thats how we roll.

Look, Ill be the first to laugh at the freaky homosexual tendencies that I find apparent in a huge majority of pro athletes. I mean, the whole QB snap, butt patting, entire sport of wrestling is funny to me. And by the way, I hope everyone who finds the ball grabbing funny will watch this hillarious video on lance z's blog about ARam (http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootball/)

Anyway, the thing that annoyed me is that people were using that to justify their bust predictions. That annoys me. Either poke fun at the guy for being a dumbass in pictures, or make comments about his nfl ability. The two aren't linked, despite what so many seem to have thought


PS: How can anyone still think he's trying to get top 5 money? The details of his ocntract negotiations have already come out. Are people just attempting to avoid the facts in preference of whatever the hell they want to make up?

hollywood_texan
08-06-2007, 04:31 PM
clearly i misinterpreted, sorry.

It just seems there are 3 camps out there.
1 camp is convinced the guy is a pretty boy ball grabber and loves to hate him for it
1 camp is convinced he is a greedy bastard trying to get paid top 5 mula
1 camp is convinced he is the 2nd coming of David Carr and will bust Ryan leaf style

I mislabeled you. Personally, I think all 3 are dumb at this point in the year

Quinn's play will speak for itself over time. My opinion, he isn't going to live up to the hype.

One thing Quinn does have in a negotiation point is that Cleveland gave up next years #1 draft pick for him. Considering where Cleveland is and where they are heading. Then look at their division, odds are, they will be in the top 10 for sure in the draft for 2008. Point is, Quinn's agent has a leg to stand on negotiation of his contract when it comes to money. He may have been picked at #22 in 2007, but Cleveland paid a heavy price for that pick.

As to Quinn's orientation, he has just handled himself extremely poorly in that regard. Regardless of his play on the field, he will continue to be teased if he continues to conduct himself in the same manner.

Right now, it seems he is trying to hide the obvious, the pictures just sinch it in my opinion.

Vinny
08-06-2007, 04:35 PM
One thing Quinn does have in a negotiation point is that Cleveland gave up next years #1 draft pick for him. Considering where Cleveland is and where they are heading. Then look at their division, odds are, they will be in the top 10 for sure in the draft for 2008. Point is, Quinn's agent has a leg to stand on negotiation of his contract when it comes to money. He may have been picked at #22 in 2007, but Cleveland paid a heavy price for that pick.

That's also why they don't want to compound that price by giving up too much money on top of it all...at the end of the day he was picked where he was picked. If teams wanted to pay him more money they would have picked him sooner.

real
08-06-2007, 04:38 PM
I post a topic on how I think its stupid that CJ is the highest paid Lion in franchise history, and people get all over me saying that rookies shoudl ask for a lot of money and that they can get injured, and that they risk their lives, and that its all capitalism

Than I post a defense for Quinn asking for higher pay based on his playing ability, and I get blasted.

I just dont get your line of thinking, sorry.

Wouldn't that make your statements contradictory as well ?

Vinny
08-06-2007, 04:41 PM
To further your point x, the pay is slotted...if you don't like the prospect well enough to pay the top 10 money...drop down and find a slot you are comfy paying....like the Browns did with Quinn.

hollywood_texan
08-06-2007, 04:41 PM
Look, Ill be the first to laugh at the freaky homosexual tendencies that I find apparent in a huge majority of football players. I mean, the whole QB snap, butt patting, entire sport of wrestling is funny to me. And by the way, I hope everyone who finds the ball grabbing funny will watch this hillarious video on lance z's blog about ARam (http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootball/)

Anyway, the thing that annoyed me is that people were using that to justify their bust predictions. That annoys me. Either poke fun at the guy for being a dumbass in pictures, or make comments about his nfl ability. The two aren't linked, despite what so many seem to have thought

The purpose of the touching is what is important.

So I am supposed to interperet both of these experiences the same way:

1. Just scored a winning TD to seal the victory to the Super Bowl and Kubiak gives me a butt slap in celebration.

2. Hanging out at Oil Can Harry's and some complete stranger gives me a butt slap.

The two have very different meanings but are the same action.

I generally don't hug guys. But, from time to time, I hug guys that arefamily members and close friends. What are we supposed to read into that?

You seem to indicate we are reading too much into Brady Quinn, but you are reading way too much into the actions and equalizing them. The meaning and importance of the actions are what is important.

Which brings me those Brady Quinn pictures. I really have a hard time thinking anything else but a certain thing when looking at those pictures.

Bottom line though, it really doesn't matter.

My opinion, as long as no laws are broken and it's consenting adults, have fun all you want. But, that doesn't mean you are not going to get laughed at or teased.

Be yourself and if no one likes it, who cares.

That seems to be Quinn's problem, he cares too much what people think of him. Evidence, the interviews he did when his draft status dropped like a rock. He sounded like a whinning little boy.

gtexan02
08-06-2007, 04:42 PM
Wouldn't that make your statements contradictory as well ?

Not at all. The entire point of my post against rookie deals is that they were based purely on speculation of talent. Quinn is asking for incentive based money. If he becomes the franchise QB in 5 years, he wants to be paid like a frnachise QB. That sounds fair to me.

Being paid like a franchise WR regardless of actual NFL performance 5 years down the line is what I was getting upset at

Vinny
08-06-2007, 04:43 PM
Not at all. The entire point of my post against rookie deals is that they were based purely on speculation of talent. Quinn is asking for incentive based money. If he becomes the franchise QB in 5 years, he wants to be paid like a frnachise QB. That sounds fair to me.

Being paid like a franchise WR regardless of actual NFL performance 5 years down the line is what I was getting upset atThere is a WORLD of difference in the first 5 picks and the 20th pick.....it's a HUGE reason the Browns didn't take Quinn early. They found a more comfortable money slot for him later in the draft. They obviously thought it was wiser to pay that money slot to the LT than Quinn...who isn't as good a prospect.

real
08-06-2007, 04:45 PM
To further your point x, the pay is slotted...if you don't like the prospect well enough to pay the top 10 money...drop down and find a slot you are comfy paying....like the Browns did with Quinn.

IMO, that's the main issue...

He was taken at 22 for a reason....And that reason being that no else (1-21) wanted him....Take your money, prove the critics wrong, and cash in...

I guess Michael Bush should be trying to tier money as well ?

hollywood_texan
08-06-2007, 04:47 PM
That's also why they don't want to compound that price by giving up too much money on top of it all...at the end of the day he was picked where he was picked. If teams wanted to pay him more money they would have picked him sooner.

Vinny, I agree with you.

However, the perspective I described is legit.

Cleveland gave up way too much for a guy that dropped like a rock on draft day with no end in sight.

Actually, they probably did Quinn a favor.

Maybe that's the retort to the perspective I described earlier.

Besides, what if Quinn backs into the job via injury or poor competition and you are hung for the big bucks as a result.

Cleveland made a huge mistake.

gtexan02
08-06-2007, 04:47 PM
There is a WORLD of difference in the first 5 picks and the 20th pick.....it's a HUGE reason the Browns didn't take Quinn early. They found a more comfortable money slot for him later in the draft. They obviously thought it was wiser to pay that money slot to the LT than Quinn...who isn't as good a prospect.


I think everyone knows there is a world of difference in the #5 pick and the #20 pick. I never said there wasn't. Quinn is NOT asking to be paid like the #5 guy at this point. In fact, the two sides have agreed on the guaranteed money.

Quinn is asking for a contract that if he plays to highest level of incentives (meaning he is the full time franchise QB by year 5) could pay him up to 30 million. ESPN reported that the contract could be worth less than $20 million over 5 years total if he doesn't make the incentives.

the #5 contract was worth $62 million.

How in the world are you getting that he was trying to be paid #5 money?

Other people in the teens to low 20's are getting between 13 million and 18 million total with 6-12 guaranteed.

Vinny
08-06-2007, 04:48 PM
IMO, that's the main issue...

He was taken at 22 for a reason....And that reason being that no else (1-21) wanted him....Take your money, prove the critics wrong, and cash in...

I guess Michael Bush should be trying to tier money as well ?
People don't want to wrap their minds around this but you are playing for your first contract when you are in your last year of college. You don't wait to play for your first contract after you get into the NFL. The better you are in College, and if you show potential, you will get a big check via the draft (teams are building their futures based on your potential). If you don't play well...you won't get the big money. Some fans don't quite grasp this...but those College guys are indeed playing for a check.

Double Barrel
08-06-2007, 04:48 PM
Look, Ill be the first to laugh at the freaky homosexual tendencies that I find apparent in a huge majority of pro athletes. I mean, the whole QB snap, butt patting, entire sport of wrestling is funny to me.

If they were wearing any football equipment, maybe they get a free pass.

But just grabbing another man's junk to pose for a picture is rather....ummmm...on the 'happy' side of things.

I don't know about you, but the last time I grabbed another man's crotch was, like, never.

As far as Quinn, I could care less about the dude and what direction his career takes. And I could care less if he's homosexual. I just find the pictures to be funny as anything.

real
08-06-2007, 04:49 PM
Not at all. The entire point of my post against rookie deals is that they were based purely on speculation of talent. Quinn is asking for incentive based money. If he becomes the franchise QB in 5 years, he wants to be paid like a frnachise QB. That sounds fair to me.

Being paid like a franchise WR regardless of actual NFL performance 5 years down the line is what I was getting upset at


It's not fair...

That's like saying all rookies should be given the opprotunity "if" they become a franchise player...

Late round draft picks, that become steals would have 0 value....

Calvin Johnson was picked #2 overall because his combine, college career, and overall talent dictated that...

Quinn was picked at 22 for the same reasons...He should be paid according to where he was picked, not given incentives based on what he 'might' become....

real
08-06-2007, 04:50 PM
If they were wearing any football equipment, maybe they get a free pass.

But just grabbing another man's junk to pose for a picture is rather....ummmm...on the 'happy' side of things.

I don't know about you, but the last time I grabbed another man's crotch was, like, never.

As far as Quinn, I could care less about the dude and what direction his career takes. And I could care less if he's homosexual. I just find the pictures to be funny as anything.

I find this post to be funny as anything...lol

hollywood_texan
08-06-2007, 04:50 PM
If he becomes the franchise QB in 5 years, he wants to be paid like a frnachise QB. That sounds fair to me.


Just because you are starting or playing most of the games does not make you a Franchise QB.

That's the rub and he wasn't drafted in a slot that is for Franchise QBs.

Vinny
08-06-2007, 04:51 PM
I think everyone knows there is a world of difference in the #5 pick and the #20 pick. I never said there wasn't. Quinn is NOT asking to be paid like the #5 guy at this point. In fact, the two sides have agreed on the guaranteed money.

Quinn is asking for a contract that if he plays to highest level of incentives (meaning he is the full time franchise QB by year 5) could pay him up to 30 million.

the #5 contract was worth $62 million.

How in the world are you getting that he was trying to be paid #5 money?

You are the guy who keeps bringing up JaMarcus Russell and Calvin Johnson when comparing Quinn....I'm just elaborating on your posts.

real
08-06-2007, 04:51 PM
Cleveland made a huge mistake.

Funny how things go...

On draft dat this was one of the most highly touted moves...

gtexan02
08-06-2007, 04:57 PM
It's not fair...

That's like saying all rookies should be given the opprotunity "if" they become a franchise player...

Late round draft picks, that become steals would have 0 value....

Calvin Johnson was picked #2 overall because his combine, college career, and overall talent dictated that...

Quinn was picked at 22 for the same reasons...He should be paid according to where he was picked, not given incentives based on what he 'might' become....


Players do this whether or not they have it in their contracts. Do you really believe that a late round pick with a few years of good play is going to sit with his $100,000 base salary for the 5 years of his contract? Hell no, he'll hold out for more.

I can give you all sorts of examples if you want, but Im sure you know of some yourself

All Quinn is doing at this point is asking for those incentive based payments to be built into his contract so he doesnt have to ask for more money IF (Huge IF) he becomes a perennial pro bowler.

People didn't seem to have a problem with guys like Deon Branch holding out for more money, or with guys like Javon Walker holding out for more money. I mean, I heard "Its a dangerous sport! Hes playing much better than he's being paid! He deserves more" All Quinn is doing is building that into his contract

real
08-06-2007, 04:58 PM
I think everyone knows there is a world of difference in the #5 pick and the #20 pick. I never said there wasn't. Quinn is NOT asking to be paid like the #5 guy at this point. In fact, the two sides have agreed on the guaranteed money.

Quinn is asking for a contract that if he plays to highest level of incentives (meaning he is the full time franchise QB by year 5) could pay him up to 30 million.

the #5 contract was worth $62 million.

How in the world are you getting that he was trying to be paid #5 money?

You really don't see the arrogance and problem with that line of thinking ?

Hello, I'm mr. Non-relevant...I was the last player picked in the entire draft, but I know that I'm better than those first rounders...I want to structure my contract with incentives that will pay me like one because I know I'm just as good...


Well guess who doesn't....32 teams who made about 200 picks before your name was called....

Guys are picked where they are picked because no one wanted them before that...

I doubt there is a player in the NFL that doesn't think they are better than what people give them credit for...

real
08-06-2007, 04:59 PM
People didn't seem to have a problem with guys like Deon Branch holding out for more money, or with guys like Javon Walker holding out for more money. I mean, I heard "Its a dangerous sport! Hes playing much better than he's being paid! He deserves more" All Quinn is doing is building that into his contract

How can the words: "It's dumb to call a guy a bust before he takes a snap" come out of the same mouth that says: "It's ok for a guy to hold out for more money before he takes a snap"

I'm confused...

hollywood_texan
08-06-2007, 05:01 PM
All Quinn is doing at this point is asking for those incentive based payments to be built into his contract so he doesnt have to ask for more money IF (Huge IF) he becomes a perennial pro bowler.


The language about escalation of pay is about playing time, not success or stats.

Please let me know if I am off on this.

BigTimeTexanFan
08-06-2007, 05:01 PM
Not at all. The entire point of my post against rookie deals is that they were based purely on speculation of talent. Quinn is asking for incentive based money. If he becomes the franchise QB in 5 years, he wants to be paid like a frnachise QB. That sounds fair to me.

Being paid like a franchise WR regardless of actual NFL performance 5 years down the line is what I was getting upset at

So what if he needs a year or two to lean the NFL and spends that time on the bench? Should he then be paid like a player who doesn't play? I mean that fair, right? If in year 4 or 5 he is a superstar quarterback in this league, don't you think the Browns will want to give him a new contract to keep him (paying him what he's worth to stay?).

real
08-06-2007, 05:05 PM
So what if he needs a year or two to lean the NFL and spends that time on the bench? Should he then be paid like a player who doesn't play? I mean that fair, right? If in year 4 or 5 he is a superstar quarterback in this league, don't you think the Browns will want to give him a new contract to keep him (paying him what he's worth to stay?).

Exactly...

If we're going to throw the fact that the NFL is a business out of the window and do what's "fair", the Browns should also be able to put some language in his contract that says if you're a bust, you will be paid accordingly...If Brady is really confident in his abilities he shouldn't have a problem with that...

gtexan02
08-06-2007, 05:05 PM
You really don't see the arrogance and problem with that line of thinking ?

Hello, I'm mr. Non-relevant...I was the last player picked in the entire draft, but I know that I'm better than those first rounders...I want to structure my contract with incentives that will pay me like one because I know I'm just as good...


Well guess who doesn't....32 teams who made about 200 picks before your name was called....

Guys are picked where they are picked because no one wanted them before that...

I doubt there is a player in the NFL that doesn't think they are better than what people give them credit for...


Who the hell cares if you give incentive based pay to mr. non-relevant? Hell, I wouldn't be opposed to the Texans giving our 4th string CB a contract that paid him incentive laden starter money if he became a full time starter and was a perennial pro bowler and all pro.

The whole point of incentive based pay is that you DONT HAVE TO PAY IT if the player doesnt live up to the hype.

So go ahead and give Quinn a $30 million dollar contract at #20-whatever, so long as he doest see half of that if he doesnt play like the #1 draft pick. If he lives up to his #20 draft status? Give him $13 million, 8 guaranteed. If he plays like Peyton Manning, why not pay him like it?

I just dont see why incentive based pay is so difficult with a guy who falls a bunch. Its a great way for you to say "Hey, if you play like we think you're worth, you get $x If you prove everyone wrong and prove the hype right, we'll reward you for it"

hollywood_texan
08-06-2007, 05:07 PM
So what if he needs a year or two to lean the NFL and spends that time on the bench? Should he then be paid like a player who doesn't play? I mean that fair, right? If in year 4 or 5 he is a superstar quarterback in this league, don't you think the Browns will want to give him a new contract to keep him (paying him what he's worth to stay?).
QBs that prove they are of Franchise quality have zero problem getting a long-term deal while in their 20's.

Quinn's issue isn't about getting paid if proves he is Franchise QB. This is about getting the most money if he doesn't pan out as the Franchise QB.

It's about maximizing revenue.

If Quinn becomes a Franchise QB, this contract will be too low for term he will be signing anyway.

gtexan02
08-06-2007, 05:07 PM
Exactly...

If we're going to throw the fact that the NFL is a business out of the window and do what's "fair", the Browns should also be able to put some language in his contract that says if you're a bust, you will be paid accordingly...If Brady is really confident in his abilities he shouldn't have a problem with that...

I would have absolutely 0 problem with that. Obviously, I know that will never happen, but I think that'd be the perfect scenario. Every contract should be incentive based pay.

I think Elle said it in my rookie contract topic

It'd keep guys from playing their hearts out in college and then collecting huge guaranteed salaries. It would help prevent guys like Ryan Leaf from crippling franchises for years

gtexan02
08-06-2007, 05:09 PM
QBs that prove they are of Franchise quality have zero problem getting a long-term deal while in their 20's.

Quinn's issue isn't about getting paid if proves he is Franchise QB. This is about getting the most money if he doesn't pan out as the Franchise QB.

It's about maximizing revenue.

If Quinn becomes a Franchise QB, this contract will be too low for term he will be signing anyway.


Where are you getting this from? Do you have a source?

I have already posted that the Browns and Quinn are in agreement about the GUARANTEED portion of the contract (which is what you seem to be implying is the sticking point)

Because I have a valid source saying Quinn's issue is about getting paid if he IS franchise QB. So show me where you get your info from before we start debating that too

hollywood_texan
08-06-2007, 05:09 PM
Who the hell cares if you give incentive based pay to mr. non-relevant? Hell, I wouldn't be opposed to the Texans giving our 4th string CB a contract that paid him starter money if he became a full time starter and was a perennial pro bowler and all pro.

The whole point of incentive based pay is that you DONT HAVE TO PAY IT if the player doesnt live up to the hype.

So go ahead and give Quinn a $30 million dollar contract at #20-whatever, so long as he doest see half of that if he doesnt play like the #1 draft pick. If he lives up to his #20 draft status? Give him $13 million, 8 guaranteed. If he plays like Peyton Manning, why not pay him like it?

I just dont see why incentive based pay is so difficult with a guy who falls a bunch. Its a great way for you to say "Hey, if you play like we think you're worth, you get $x If you prove everyone wrong and prove the hype right, we'll reward you for it"

I don't think Quinn's contract issue is about him becoming a pro bowler, stats are anything measureable except for playing time.

Vinny
08-06-2007, 05:10 PM
I would have absolutely 0 problem with that. Obviously, I know that will never happen, but I think that'd be the perfect scenario. Every contract should be incentive based pay.

I think Elle said it in my rookie contract topic

It'd keep guys from playing their hearts out in college and then collecting huge guaranteed salaries. It would help prevent guys like Ryan Leaf from crippling franchises for yearsum, Leaf didn't cripple the Bolts...they have been one of the top franchises in the league since he busted. If you don't like the huge guarantees you can always trade down. Nobody forces teams to pick in their draft slots.

hollywood_texan
08-06-2007, 05:12 PM
Where are you getting this from? Do you have a source?
Source? What is the point of a guaranteed contract?

Questions like that, and you probably need directions to the bathroom and concession stands when at Reliant Stadium.



Because I have a valid source saying Quinn's issue is about getting paid if he IS franchise QB. So show me where you get your info from before we start debating that too

Please point to what you heard about this contract that says he has to be Franchise QB. And if so, how do you measure that?

What I have read, it's all about playing time. If playing like 60% of the time, the escalation occurs.

Well, Quinn could back into the starting position due to injury or poor competition. And should Cleveland have to pay more for that. They did pick the guy at #22 or something like that.

gtexan02
08-06-2007, 05:13 PM
um, Leaf didn't cripple the Bolts...they have been one of the top franchises in the league since he busted. If you don't like the huge guarantees you can always trade down. Nobody forces teams to pick in their draft slots.


One of the drafts great mysteries "You can always trade down"

Sure, but its VERY difficult to find anyone willing to give you fair value for the trade down.

The Texans shopped the #1 pick last year around quite a bit, and Im pretty sure one of the largest reasons people continue to support Mario is that trading down was never a real option for us.

real
08-06-2007, 05:14 PM
Who the hell cares if you give incentive based pay to mr. non-relevant? Hell, I wouldn't be opposed to the Texans giving our 4th string CB a contract that paid him starter money if he became a full time starter and was a perennial pro bowler and all pro.

The whole point of incentive based pay is that you DONT HAVE TO PAY IT if the player doesnt live up to the hype.

So go ahead and give Quinn a $30 million dollar contract at #20-whatever, so long as he doest see half of that if he doesnt play like the #1 draft pick. If he lives up to his #20 draft status? Give him $13 million, 8 guaranteed. If he plays like Peyton Manning, why not pay him like it?

I just dont see why incentive based pay is so difficult with a guy who falls a bunch. Its a great way for you to say "Hey, if you play like we think you're worth, you get $x If you prove everyone wrong and prove the hype right, we'll reward you for it"

Well then the Browns should be able to able to pay him less if he bust.

Browns are taking a much greater risk with this investment than Quinn is taking by signing...

If Quinn bust the Browns have wasted valuable picks and lots of money all the while Quinn is overpaid...If Quinn plays well, he is slightly underpaid for a seaon or two and then he can renegotiate...

Quinn needs to stop whining about where he shoulda and woulda been picked and get into camp...

It's a give and take situation...

You were picked at 22 so you will be paid accordingly whether you bust or succeed...

Vinny
08-06-2007, 05:15 PM
One of the drafts great mysteries "You can always trade down"

Sure, but its VERY difficult to find anyone willing to give you fair value for the trade down.

The Texans shopped the #1 pick last year around quite a bit, and Im pretty sure one of the largest reasons people continue to support Mario is that trading down was never a real option for us.

The only place life is "fair" is at home with Mom and at kindergarten.

swtbound07
08-06-2007, 05:16 PM
The only place life is "fair" is at home with Mom and at kindergarten.

you had a fair kindergarten? I never got to play with the blocks...always got stuck on stupid crayons cuz i couldn't color inside the lines.

BigTimeTexanFan
08-06-2007, 05:17 PM
QBs that prove they are of Franchise quality have zero problem getting a long-term deal while in their 20's.

Quinn's issue isn't about getting paid if proves he is Franchise QB. This is about getting the most money if he doesn't pan out as the Franchise QB.

It's about maximizing revenue.

If Quinn becomes a Franchise QB, this contract will be too low for term he will be signing anyway.

My point exactly. He's wanting more money at the end of his contract so if he becomes a starter, he's paid accordingly. At the end of the day it is pretty mucha wash, meaning, especially with quarterbacks taken in the 1st round rarely perform at the level they play. So at the end of their contracts IF they become good quarterbacks, the team is most likely to extend their contract giving them more money anyway to keep them. So, to me it's not that he just wants incentives because if he reaches that point, he's gonna want a new contract anyway.

gtexan02
08-06-2007, 05:18 PM
um, Leaf didn't cripple the Bolts...they have been one of the top franchises in the league since he busted. If you don't like the huge guarantees you can always trade down. Nobody forces teams to pick in their draft slots.


Leaf Drafted in 1998
98 - 5 and 11
99 - 8 and 8
00 - 1 and 15
01 - 5 and 11
02 - 8 and 8
03 - 4 and 12

In 04 Brees mutated into a probowler and they started playing well. But I think 6 years with a combined record of 31 and 65 (0.322 winning percentage) is not worthy of describing them as "one of the leagues best franchises"

hollywood_texan
08-06-2007, 05:18 PM
The only place life is "fair" is at home with Mom and at kindergarten.

So true, and I hope that everyone gets to experience it.

It's very important to the development as an adult and understanding the reality of life.

Vinny
08-06-2007, 05:24 PM
Leaf Drafted in 1998
98 - 5 and 11
99 - 8 and 8
00 - 1 and 15
01 - 5 and 11
02 - 8 and 8
03 - 4 and 12

In 04 Brees mutated into a probowler and they started playing well. But I think 6 years with a combined record of 31 and 65 (0.322 winning percentage) is not worthy of describing them as "one of the leagues best franchises"They had the rights for Leaf which made them a horrible team....before Leaf got there. Amazingly a team that was "crippled" had .500 years somehow...for a crippled franchise. It wasn't Leaf who made them a team bad enough to draft Leaf you know.

gtexan02
08-06-2007, 05:26 PM
I never said they weren't "average" Im jus tusing your words "they have been one of the top franchises in the league"


PS: They had an off year in 97, which allowed them to draft Leaf. They were quite good before that, going 11 and 5 in 94, 9 and 7 in 95, and 8 and 8 in 96. Clearly they had some talent on their team. The huge drop off in records (1 and 15 in 2000) was a result of Leaf, IMO

gtexan02
08-06-2007, 05:30 PM
I think this topic is done. Clearly many of you have decided that Brady Quinn is a bust and should be paid accordingly.

I don't necessarily think he should get as much as he's tryin gto get, but at the same time, I understand where he is coming from.

I think we can all agree that holding out of camp this long is a stupid, stupid move. Especially because of something as stupid as escalator clauses. If anything, he is just furthering his already bad reputation. We can all agree on that

Until he plays in the NFL (if he ever does) the rest of these arguments is moot.

He plays for the Browns, so really, and since no one here seems to care one way or the other about the browns, lets just move on

hollywood_texan
08-06-2007, 05:46 PM
Clearly many of you have decided that Brady Quinn is a bust and should be paid accordingly.


Your statement above is the reason for the communication breakdown.

The two have nothing to with each other and you are not listening to what other people are saying.

First, Quinn was drafted at #22 and should be paid accordingly.

Second, the escalators are playing time and nothing to do with results.

Third, if Quinn becomes All World to the NFL, this stupid contract we are discussing will be way too small anyway. Franchise QBs have zero problem getting long term extended deals in their 20's. It's a moot point.

If Quinn is as good as you think, he should get into camp as soon as possible so he can start sooner, rather than later, then become All World, and then get that huge payday instead bickering over his first rookie contract.

Like I said, this is about maximizing his deal if the doesn't pan out.

Example, David Carr and that hideous $8 million dollar bonus with average benchmaks...

BigTimeTexanFan
08-06-2007, 05:49 PM
I think this topic is done. Clearly many of you have decided that Brady Quinn is a bust and should be paid accordingly.

I don't necessarily think he should get as much as he's tryin gto get, but at the same time, I understand where he is coming from.

I think we can all agree that holding out of camp this long is a stupid, stupid move. Especially because of something as stupid as escalator clauses. If anything, he is just furthering his already bad reputation. We can all agree on that

Until he plays in the NFL (if he ever does) the rest of these arguments is moot.

He plays for the Browns, so really, and since no one here seems to care one way or the other about the browns, lets just move on
I'm not declaring Quinn a bust, but I can see where the Browns come from. I also happen to think he should be paid ACCORDINGLY to where he was drafted. The fact is he's trying to protect himself if he doesn't perform well. If he does perform well, his rookie contract won't last and he'll get a better deal. Where is the guarantee for the Browns? If he doesn't perform well or even plays at all the first year or two while he learns the ropes he is still going to get paid like a first rounder. Look at Philip Rivers, was it fair that the Chargers had to pay him 1st round money even though he didn't even step onto the field? What about the Texans? Look at the money David Carr made and where did that get us? All I'm saying is prove yourself and then you have room to negotiate.

BigTimeTexanFan
08-06-2007, 05:51 PM
Your statement above is the reason for the communication breakdown.

The two have nothing to with each other and you are not listening to what other people are saying.

First, Quinn was drafted at #22 and should be paid accordingly.

Second, the escalators are playing time and nothing to do with results.

Third, if Quinn becomes All World to the NFL, this stupid contract we are discussing will be way too small anyway. Franchise QBs have zero problem getting long term extended deals in their 20's. It's a moot point.

If Quinn is as good as you think, he should get into camp as soon as possible so he can start sooner, rather than later, then become All World, and then get that huge payday instead bickering over his first rookie contract.

Like I said, this is about maximizing his deal if the doesn't pan out.

Example, David Carr and that hideous $8 million dollar bonus with average benchmaks...

Thank you!

hollywood_texan
08-06-2007, 05:56 PM
Thank you!

Your welcome.

Texan_Bill
08-06-2007, 05:59 PM
If you want to dress like this you will get ridiculed:
http://deadspin.com/assets/resources/2007/05/bradyquinnpicture.jpg

He's just in touch with his village people side, not that there's anything wrong with that...
My issue with Quinn is all about his numbers and how he performed in "big" games.

Michigan (L 47-21) 24 of 48 for 234 yds; 3 TD's but 3 INT's
LSU (L 41-14) 15 of 35 for 148 yds; 2 TD's but 2 INT's.

Pretty telling. Thats why I have leaned towards him being a bust... It has nothing to do with grabbing his friend's package or dressing up like the Village People...

Vinny
08-06-2007, 06:00 PM
good lord...that's just disturbing

powerfuldragon
08-06-2007, 06:01 PM
i love escalators because analog stairs are weak because they dont move.

hollywood_texan
08-06-2007, 06:03 PM
If you want to dress like this you will get ridiculed:
http://deadspin.com/assets/resources/2007/05/bradyquinnpicture.jpg



I think the picture above just guaranteed about 5 more pages to this thread when it was just about to die out.

How many more of these pictures are there?

We should create a Brady Quinn photo ablum.

real
08-06-2007, 06:04 PM
If you want to dress like this you will get ridiculed:
http://deadspin.com/assets/resources/2007/05/bradyquinnpicture.jpg



Is this a real picture ?

hollywood_texan
08-06-2007, 06:05 PM
Here we go...

Texan_Bill
08-06-2007, 06:05 PM
Apparently it is. There is more:

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.aolsportsblog.com/media/2007/05/hawk-quinn-1.jpg

Apparently it was at his sister's wedding who married AJ Hawk...

Double Barrel
08-06-2007, 06:11 PM
How many more of these pictures are there?

I'm really wondering if I really want to know the answer to your question... :um:

Texan_Bill
08-06-2007, 06:17 PM
Fortunately for the Quinn clan, I think thats all that leaked out... As far as being homo or hetero, all I can say is that people thought Jeff Garcia was and yet, he was dating and married hotty Carmella DeCesare.

But again, the real issue is his performance in big games...

hollywood_texan
08-06-2007, 06:41 PM
Fortunately for the Quinn clan, I think thats all that leaked out... As far as being homo or hetero, all I can say is that people thought Jeff Garcia was and yet, he was dating and married hotty Carmella DeCesare.

But again, the real issue is his performance in big games...

It's just poor judgement when you should understand how important image is. Particularly when it seems to happen again and again.

Here in Hollywood, I am sure there are some people that would love for me to glam up like some Poison wanna be. Actually, given my personality, if you knew it, the situation would be hilarious.

I have no problem with Poison, I just have a certain rock n' roll image to uphold. With that in mind, Quinn has a QB image to uphold, like it or not, fair or not.

Sure I would get a kick of dressing up like a Poison wannabe and it would be funny, but those pictures would last forever. The last thing I want to do is explain why I was wearing makeup and spandex, for any reason what so ever. Maybe I am little too Spinal Tap in that regard, meaning taking myself a little too seriously.

If Quinn likes dressing up and being funny, maybe he should be an actor instead of an NFL QB.

Texan_Bill
08-06-2007, 06:51 PM
It's just poor judgement when you should understand how important image is. Particularly when it seems to happen again and again.

Here in Hollywood, I am sure there are some people that would love for me to glam up like some Poison wanna be. Actually, given my personality, if you knew it, the situation would be hilarious.

I have no problem with Poison, I just have a certain rock n' roll image to uphold. With that in mind, Quinn has a QB image to uphold, like it or not, fair or not.

Sure I would get a kick of dressing up like a Poison wannabe and it would be funny, but those pictures would last forever. The last thing I want to do is explain why I was wearing makeup and spandex, for any reason what so ever. Maybe I am little too Spinal Tap in that regard, meaning taking myself a little too seriously.

If Quinn likes dressing up and being funny, maybe he should be an actor instead of an NFL QB.

I hear what you are saying, and I can remember a certain rock band that I loved when they got a new singer and new sound.... Pantera anyone?? No offense to the younger Pantera fans out there, but I can remember seeing them performing Van Halen cover songs, wearing the spandex... Obvioulsy they werent as glammed out as Poisen, but "Dimebag" Darryl used to be known as "Diamond" Darryl...

Sorry, back on topic - You are right about a certain QB image. And of course the difference between Garcia and Quinn is that Garcia didn't do anyting to warrant the criticisms, as where Quinn completely put himself in a position to receive the ridicule.... AJ Hawk may have a few questions to answer about his brother in-law...

gtexan02
08-07-2007, 09:26 AM
Is this really all that different from the college football team dressing up like cheerleaders for the local pep rally?

MightyTExan
08-07-2007, 10:02 AM
I think my sister would stab me if I came to the wedding with my "buddies" and sang macho man dressed up like village people.

Specnatz
08-07-2007, 10:39 AM
I think my sister would stab me if I came to the wedding with my "buddies" and sang macho man dressed up like village people.

Yes but her husband is dressed up like one as well, but facts so far have been irrelevant in this thread.

I am thinking there are a bunch of guys who want to play 'touch' football with brady on here. Whatever floats y'alls boat.

Specnatz
08-07-2007, 10:45 AM
Opps

Double Barrel
08-07-2007, 11:08 AM
I hear what you are saying, and I can remember a certain rock band that I loved when they got a new singer and new sound.... Pantera anyone?? No offense to the younger Pantera fans out there, but I can remember seeing them performing Van Halen cover songs, wearing the spandex... Obvioulsy they werent as glammed out as Poisen, but "Dimebag" Darryl used to be known as "Diamond" Darryl...

The difference, my friend, is that almost the entire metal scene of the mid-1980's was glammed out. (Thrash was still underground with their blue jeans, t-shirts, and blue collar attitude. I was a part of that scene and despised the glam look).

Now if the overwhelming majority of top college QBs are known to happily grab other men's junk for pictures, then maybe your example would work. But it doesn't, and creates a straw man argument that diverts attention away from the fact that Brady is a bit different...."not that there's anything wrong with it".

And not that I'm a fan of Poison, but dressing up like Brett Michaels circa 1985 is a far cry from dressing like the S&M dude from the Village People. :shades:

Blazing Arrow
08-07-2007, 11:41 AM
And not that I'm a fan of Poison, but dressing up like Brett Michaels circa 1985 is a far cry from dressing like the S&M dude from the Village People. :shades:

I guess ....

Blazing Arrow
08-07-2007, 11:48 AM
You would think Quinn would be pushing to get into camp to see all NFL man package ......

Texan_Bill
08-07-2007, 12:00 PM
The difference, my friend, is that almost the entire metal scene of the mid-1980's was glammed out. (Thrash was still underground with their blue jeans, t-shirts, and blue collar attitude. I was a part of that scene and despised the glam look).

Now if the overwhelming majority of top college QBs are known to happily grab other men's junk for pictures, then maybe your example would work. But it doesn't, and creates a straw man argument that diverts attention away from the fact that Brady is a bit different...."not that there's anything wrong with it".

And not that I'm a fan of Poison, but dressing up like Brett Michaels circa 1985 is a far cry from dressing like the S&M dude from the Village People. :shades:

I'm with you... And beleive me, there is NEVER a good time for anyone to grab a mans package for a picture... I was just trying to give the dude the benefit of the doubt.

I will give you the Poison v. S&M dude comparison (or there lack of) too..

So, to re-cap
Strike 1: Choked in Big games
Strike 2: Played at perrenial over-rated Notre Dame
Strike 3: Grabbed another man's package AND its documented.

Strike 4?: Dressing up like the Village People at his sister and AJ HAwk's wedding....

Dude is done!!

Blazing Arrow
08-07-2007, 12:05 PM
You forgot to add he is a QB drafter by the Browns in the 1st.

Texan_Bill
08-07-2007, 12:10 PM
You forgot to add he is a QB drafter by the Browns in the 1st.

Strike 5??

Double Barrel
08-07-2007, 12:12 PM
I guess ....

I will give you the Poison v. S&M dude comparison (or there lack of) too..

Now, far be it from me to advance anything positive about Poison or Brett Michaels, but this seals the deal, IMO:

http://www.sptimesphotos.com/blogs/popmusic/uploaded_images/bret_withgirls-784255-786901.jpeg

There is no doubt that these dudes had lots of hot female groupies in their day and abused them accordingly. So they are firmly in the straight camp, even as girlie-lookin' dudes. (And that pretty much goes for the entire glam metal movement. It used to piss me off that dudes would wear more makeup than the girls and still get them all! I just wouldn't go there...ever.)

S&M dude from the Village People....well, I have no desire to know anything about their groupies or whatever may have happened backstage in their heyday...."not that there's anything wrong with it yada yada yada"....but grabbing another dude's junk was probably just part of the show.

Poison - 1
Village People - 0

Texan_Bill
08-07-2007, 12:33 PM
Agreed DB..... I used to hate those guys (the glam 80's guys) - but I never doubted their sexuality!! I watched these guys leave places like Cardis, Rockers, Thunders etc. with SEVERAL girls under each arm.... I was lucky to get a phone number (of course being under age and having my older sister get me in - might have had something to do with it..... )

Village People? I never really got that feeling about them...

hollywood_texan
08-07-2007, 12:36 PM
Now, far be it from me to advance anything positive about Poison or Brett Michaels, but this seals the deal, IMO:

http://www.sptimesphotos.com/blogs/popmusic/uploaded_images/bret_withgirls-784255-786901.jpeg

There is no doubt that these dudes had lots of hot female groupies in their day and abused them accordingly. So they are firmly in the straight camp, even as girlie-lookin' dudes. (And that pretty much goes for the entire glam metal movement. It used to piss me off that dudes would wear more makeup than the girls and still get them all! I just wouldn't go there...ever.)

S&M dude from the Village People....well, I have no desire to know anything about their groupies or whatever may have happened backstage in their heyday...."not that there's anything wrong with it yada yada yada"....but grabbing another dude's junk was probably just part of the show.

Poison - 1
Village People - 0
There are still guys here in Hollywood wearing stuff like that. Some of them are just dinosaurs and some are young guys in their early 20's. Not many of them though, but they seem to bag some good looking gals.

Where can you see this? At a place in Hollywood, called of all things, the Rainbow! Actually, the name is the Rainbow Bar and Grill. Before you start thinking things, this place was the Mecca of 80's Metal in the 80's and early 90's. When Guns N' Roses and Metallica were recording Use Your Illusion and the Black Album, that's where they knocked off after recording in North Hollywood. Lemmy of Motorhead was a fixture of the place for some time!

It was a big hang out for Motley Crue in the 80's. It's right next door to the Roxy.

Bottom line is, DB is right. Hair metal guys dress up like girls to get girls. It's a strange thing, but it works for them.

Texan_Bill
08-07-2007, 12:48 PM
There are still guys here in Hollywood wearing stuff like that. Some of them are just dinosaurs and some are young guys in their early 20's. Not many of them though, but they seem to bag some good looking gals.

Where can you see this? At a place in Hollywood, called of all things, the Rainbow! Actually, the name is the Rainbow Bar and Grill. Before you start thinking things, this place was the Mecca of 80's Metal in the 80's and early 90's. When Guns N' Roses and Metallica were recording Use Your Illusion and the Black Album, that's where they knocked off after recording in North Hollywood. Lemmy of Motorhead was a fixture of the place for some time!

It was a big hang out for Motley Crue in the 80's. It's right next door to the Roxy.

Bottom line is, DB is right. Hair metal guys dress up like girls to get girls. It's a strange thing, but it works for them.

When you are talking Metal and playing at the Rainbow, I don't think there is much confusion for most.... I think of the Rainbow, Whiskey A-go-go, the Roxy as much a fixture in LA/Hollywood for metal as I do CBGB's for punk in New York....

A lot of bands playing that circuit back in the 80's played Cardi's (also Rockers and Thunders) here.

Overalls
08-07-2007, 01:14 PM
As a member of the class of 85 I hit the hight of my metal mania days during the time in question. I was never a particularly big fan of Pantera, Poison, Ratt, or Motley Crue. Although I was a fan of Alice Cooper, Ozzy, Joan Jett, and Quite Riot. My point being, that at the time kids did enjoy the looks of the rockers or the rockers wouldn't have done it. Videos sell the image, the image sells records. To me a group like Duran Duran in lime green suits looked a lot more like they fitted the bill of being like the Judas Priest lead singer than Vince Neil. How about Twisted Sister. Couldn't get much more make up on than them. Still I would prefer they be on my side in a bar fight.

Any way on the list of things that I never did, but did think about was a skunk stripe in my hair and indian "warrior paint" on my face. (I did have a crush on Patty Smyth after all.)

And to push it back towards the original thread title. I wouldn't want to play QB in Cleveland either.

The Dude Abides
08-07-2007, 01:15 PM
Quinn signs. 5 year deal.

The Brady Quinn saga is now officially over.
The rookie quarterback has agreed to terms on a five-year deal with the Cleveland Browns, FOXSports.com has learned.The deal, which was agreed to Tuesday morning, has not yet been signed.
The two sides are still trying to work out the final details of the agreement, but Quinn was en route to Cleveland to join his teammates on Tuesday.
The No. 22 pick in this year's draft out of Notre Dame, Quinn had been working out in Tempe, Ariz. at Athletes Performance Institute, and last week said he was hoping his holdout would end soon.
His hopes have now been answered.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7099486

HoustonFrog
08-07-2007, 01:17 PM
Quinn signs. 5 year deal.


http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7099486

I just heard this on Rome. About time.

hollywood_texan
08-07-2007, 01:29 PM
To me a group like Duran Duran in lime green suits looked a lot more like they fitted the bill of being like the Judas Priest lead singer than Vince Neil. How about Twisted Sister. Couldn't get much more make up on than them. Still I would prefer they be on my side in a bar fight.


Actually, Rob Halford of Judas Priest is gay and didn't come out until mid to late 90's. Which brings into context the song "Ram it Down".

All the leather Halford wore, was from gay S & M shops in England.

He said he found it very humorous that straight guys thought he looked cool back in the 80's.

One other thing, I question your point that the height of metal was 85. Still to be released were:

1. Puppetz/Justice
2. Appetite for Desctruction
3. Pantera wasn't even formed yet
4. I know there is more but can't name them right now.

The height was later in the 80s.

powerfuldragon
08-07-2007, 01:33 PM
The deal is worth $20.2 million, and could reach a total value of $30 million with escalators. The contract contains $7.75 million in guaranteed money.

hm...

Double Barrel
08-07-2007, 01:46 PM
One other thing, I question your point that the height of metal was 85. Still to be released were:

1. Puppetz/Justice
2. Appetite for Desctruction
3. Pantera wasn't even formed yet
4. I know there is more but can't name them right now.

The height was later in the 80s.

It probably depends on the type of metal. Glam was huge in '85 (when I graduated), and probably stayed strong until around '88-'89, when thrash really started making an impact. Up until that point, glam was metal, and the underground was just churning out the heavy hitters without radio or MTV support. Heck, Metallica didn't even have a video until "One" from JFA. I vividly remember the first time Headbanger's Ball actually started playing the heavy stuff, around '88-'89 or so. Up until that point, Z Rock (1070 AM) was helping the scene, but it was still dominated by Motley Crue and Poison (along with all the clone bands that followed in their footsteps).

After thrash/speed metal hit, all the glam guys immediately went black leather, and then Nirvana/grunge wiped out the whole scene and left Pantera to carry the metal torch through the barren 90's wasteland of teen pop, boy bands, and some kind of smelly music called "nu-metal".

I still believe that the grunge movement did a huge favor to metal, though, by flushing alot of the fluff down the toilet. But that's just my perspective. :headbang:

Back on topic...yeah, congrats to the Browns and Quinn for resolving the hold out.

Specnatz
08-07-2007, 01:51 PM
Actually, Rob Halford of Judas Priest is gay and didn't come out until mid to late 90's. Which brings into context the song "Ram it Down".

All the leather Halford wore, was from gay S & M shops in England.

He said he found it very humorous that straight guys thought he looked cool back in the 80's.

One other thing, I question your point that the height of metal was 85. Still to be released were:

1. Puppetz/Justice
2. Appetite for Desctruction
3. Pantera wasn't even formed yet
4. I know there is more but can't name them right now.

The height was later in the 80s.

I think the height of the speed metal was '85 or '86 just as I was graduating HS, with the likes of Metal Church.

Texan_Bill
08-07-2007, 01:56 PM
Actually, Rob Halford of Judas Priest is gay and didn't come out until mid to late 90's. Which brings into context the song "Ram it Down".

All the leather Halford wore, was from gay S & M shops in England.

He said he found it very humorous that straight guys thought he looked cool back in the 80's.

One other thing, I question your point that the height of metal was 85. Still to be released were:

1. Puppetz/Justice
2. Appetite for Desctruction
3. Pantera wasn't even formed yet
4. I know there is more but can't name them right now.

The height was later in the 80s.

'Appetite' for me was metal - but shifted to a completey different gear (Brought back more of a blues rock-n-roll like a 70's Aerosmith).

As far as the earlier 80's leading into the mid 80's

Pantera started in '81 (Anselmo didn't join until about '88). Again, Dimebag's nickname used to be "Diamond" Darryl....

1984 - Metallica had released "Ride the lightening" (for me - still their best)

Priest had several albums out...

Megadeth had formed... etc...

In short, (IMHO) the height of glam metal was probably 83/84ish to 87 (Coincidentally the time 'Appetite' was released and about the time Grunge took off)...

Double Barrel
08-07-2007, 02:08 PM
I think the height of the speed metal was '85 or '86 just as I was graduating HS, with the likes of Metal Church.

I always thought "speed" and "thrash" were the same thing?

If that's the case, then the height would be later considering Metallica's epic Master of Puppets was released in 1986 but didn't really pick up steam until '87-'88. They released "...And Justice For All" in 1989, IIRC.

Anthrax released "Among the Living" in '87, Slayer's "Reign in Blood" late '86, and Megadeth's "Peace Sells... But Who's Buying?" in '86.

As far as album/CD sales and concert tickets sold, the 'big 4' (Metallica, Anthrax, Slayer, Megadeth) really hit the zenith in '89-'90 or so.

'Appetite' for me was metal - but shifted to a completey different gear (Brought back more of a blues rock-n-roll like a 70's Aerosmith).

"Appetite for Destruction" was huge. I remember hearing "Sweet Child o' Mine" and thought it was Stryper. I didn't get into the album until I heard "Welcome to the Jungle" and "Paradise City".

I've had debates with friends who believe that GnR was a 'glam band'. But the difference is in music style (GnR was grittier and had a raw sound) and subject matter. Glam tended to focus on parties and chicks, while GnR was talking about substance abuse, overdosing, the brutal realities of living the streets of a big city, etc.

They might have looked similar, but they were different beasts, IMO.

Texan_Bill
08-07-2007, 02:19 PM
There is only one incriminating peice of evidence linking G-n-R to Glam.... And that was Axl's hair in Welcome to the Jungle... Can of AquaNet anyone...

You're right. The music was so different from G-n-R to Glam bands. I mean Poison was singing about wanting "Nothin' but a good time" - all upbeat and happy... G-n-R was singing about heroin and drug addition(s) etc... Or like the nice little diddy "Mr. Brownstone"..... Where the bands really were different is when you listen to G-n-T Lies, you get more of that Blues rock sound reminescent of the 70's Aerosmith type bands...

Stryper...? Wow, quite a theological difference from G-n-R... lol

Too bad Axl is an egomaniac.... When was that new album coming out again...

hollywood_texan
08-07-2007, 02:24 PM
I've had debates with friends who believe that GnR was a 'glam band'.

I believe the appropriate term would be Sleaze Rock.

Still a branch of Heavy Metal though.

gg no re
08-07-2007, 02:25 PM
Guys we need to get this thread back on track.

I firmly believe that Brady chokes in his performances.

When it comes to football though, maybe his support at Notre Dame was not enough to get him over at the big games.

hollywood_texan
08-07-2007, 02:26 PM
Where the bands really were different is when you listen to G-n-T Lies, you get more of that Blues rock sound reminescent of the 70's Aerosmith type bands...

Probably Rolling Stones was a bigger influence on that album.

Slash is a big Aerosmith guy, Axl a Rolling Stone guy.

HOU-TEX
08-07-2007, 02:33 PM
Guys we need to get this thread back on track.

I firmly believe that Brady chokes in his performances.

When it comes to football though, maybe his support at Notre Dame was not enough to get him over at the big games.

Nah, who cares about Brady when there's rock n roll to be discussed.

I was a huge fan of the infamous hair bands throughout the 80's. I still frequent Cynthia Woods for Motley Crew, Poison, Rush (even though not actually a hair band and Cinderella. Cinderella has actually been my favorite lately. I've also been to a few dive clubs to catch Quiet Riot and W.A.S.P.

Long live the Hair Bands.

The Boneyard on XM is my favorite station when not dialed into sports talk.:)

Specnatz
08-07-2007, 02:34 PM
Nah, who cares about Brady when there's rock n roll to be discussed.

I was a huge fan of the infamous hair bands throughout the 80's. I still frequent Cynthia Woods for Motley Crew, Poison, Rush (even though not actually a hair band and Cinderella. Cinderella has actually been my favorite lately. I've also been to a few dive clubs to catch Quiet Riot and W.A.S.P.

Long live the Hair Bands.

The Boneyard on XM is my favorite station when not dialed into sports talk.:)

I remember when Cynthia woods opened, every year Steve Miller played there and I would go every single time.

The Dude Abides
08-07-2007, 02:37 PM
I remember when Cynthia woods opened, every year Steve Miller played there and I would go every single time.

I heat up, I can't cool down, you've got me spinning, round and round. Ab-ra, Ab-ra, cadabra

hollywood_texan
08-07-2007, 02:44 PM
I heat up, I can't cool down, you've got me spinning, round and round. Ab-ra, Ab-ra, cadabra

I wanna reach out and grab ya...

Double Barrel
08-07-2007, 02:47 PM
There is only one incriminating peice of evidence linking G-n-R to Glam.... And that was Axl's hair in Welcome to the Jungle... Can of AquaNet anyone...

I remember reading an interview with Axl where he 'explains' the hair. He said the song & video was about a fresh faced farmboy getting off the bus in Los Angeles and doing what he thought he was supposed to do. It was a bit autobiographical, and when you look at the L.A. scene back then, he would have had to go glam to fit in. (This is why Cliff Burton made Metallica move to San Francisco as a condition of getting him in the band.)

Stryper...? Wow, quite a theological difference from G-n-R... lol

In my defense, it was just the one song, "Sweet Child", that made me think Stryper. It is a different type of song for that album, and it was only supposed to be filler.

Too bad Axl is an egomaniac.... When was that new album coming out again...

At this point, who cares when "Chinese Democracy" comes out. The only reason I pay any attention is because Buckethead might be on it.

Blazing Arrow
08-07-2007, 03:00 PM
White Snake is supposedly having a private tasting at my winery this week. Friends with the owner I believe ... or that was what he was telling me.

TexanAddict
08-07-2007, 03:14 PM
I'm not sure this thread could be any more de-railed.

Specnatz
08-07-2007, 03:19 PM
I'm not sure this thread could be any more de-railed.

who cares.

:cool:

Blazing Arrow
08-07-2007, 03:33 PM
I'm not sure this thread could be any more de-railed.

Think about it this way. In the span of Quinn's "career" this will probably be the longest thread on any board about him.

Double Barrel
08-07-2007, 04:15 PM
I'm not sure this thread could be any more de-railed.

The point of the thread has now been eliminated since Quinn signed. There's nothing left to say about his holdout when he's no longer holding out.

But, this thread can live on as a testament to his collegiate package grabbing and Village People lifestyle. :D

Oh yeah, metal rules, too! :jam:

Mr. White
08-07-2007, 04:28 PM
When did he sign? I missed that somewhere between the Village People, Hair Bands and the like. What did he get? as I'm certain I don't want to hunt through this mess to find it.

around noon.

Double Barrel
08-07-2007, 04:31 PM
When did he sign? I missed that somewhere between the Village People, Hair Bands and the like. What did he get? as I'm certain I don't want to hunt through this mess to find it.


Page 11. :cowboy1:

Texan_Bill
08-07-2007, 04:34 PM
Probably Rolling Stones was a bigger influence on that album.

Slash is a big Aerosmith guy, Axl a Rolling Stone guy.

Yeah... I can definitely see that. I through out Aerosmith because of the live version on side two of Lies... Train kepta rollin'

Texan_Bill
08-07-2007, 04:37 PM
At this point, who cares when "Chinese Democracy" comes out. The only reason I pay any attention is because Buckethead might be on it.

Actually I LMAO thinking about the 'alleged' release of this album... By the time it is released, Buckethead may be done with all Axl's BS...

Texan_Bill
08-07-2007, 04:37 PM
At this point, who cares when "Chinese Democracy" comes out. The only reason I pay any attention is because Buckethead might be on it.

Actually I LMAO thinking about the 'alleged' release of this album... By the time it is released, Buckethead may be done with all Axl's BS... It's no wonder that the band members were either all strung out or drunken to FUBAR

HOU-TEX
08-07-2007, 04:37 PM
Well, the last few pages sure aren't about him, so you have to do some subtraction. I guess no one really cares about him afterall. He's missed a whole lot of work and would be a bad addition to the Browns at this point. I hope he majored well in college because he's going to need some resumes.

So, anyone still own any of their 90's spandex? I do. And some pictures of the big hair that went with it.

Don't forget the parachute pants. :coolb:

/Looks in closet.....no, no I don't have them anymore. :embarrass

Overalls
08-07-2007, 04:38 PM
Actually, Rob Halford of Judas Priest is gay and didn't come out until mid to late 90's. Which brings into context the song "Ram it Down".

That may be why I referenced him to Duran Duran

One other thing, I question your point that the height of metal was 85. Still to be released were:

1. Puppetz/Justice
2. Appetite for Desctruction
3. Pantera wasn't even formed yet
4. I know there is more but can't name them right now.

The height was later in the 80s.

And I didn't only listen to music only in 1985. I was 18, thus my head banging metal years spanned into the 90's as well. It wasn't meant as a midpoint.

As a member of the class of 85 I hit the hight of my metal mania days during the time in question

I never said that 85 was the hight of metal. I said I hit the hight of my metal mania days during the time period being discussed.

Texan_Bill
08-07-2007, 04:40 PM
Man spandex were so dead in the 80's... 90's were all about the Z.cavariccis....

:rolleyes:

HOU-TEX
08-07-2007, 04:43 PM
Man spandex were so dead in the 80's... 90's were all about the Z.cavariccis....

:rolleyes:

Yeah, I had a pair...OMG, I just said that out loud.:backsout:

Specnatz
08-07-2007, 05:02 PM
The point of the thread has now been eliminated since Quinn signed. There's nothing left to say about his holdout when he's no longer holding out.

But, this thread can live on as a testament to his collegiate package grabbing and Village People lifestyle. :D

Oh yeah, metal rules, too! :jam:

Just to make DB happy and the rest of you clowns :splits:

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o195/Specnatz/ymca-1.gif

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o195/Specnatz/gun.gif

hollywood_texan
08-07-2007, 05:33 PM
Actually I LMAO thinking about the 'alleged' release of this album... By the time it is released, Buckethead may be done with all Axl's BS... It's no wonder that the band members were either all strung out or drunken to FUBAR

From what I understand, Buckethead is done with Axl. And that happened a long time ago.

I believe DB was referring to what is already recorded by Buckethead with Axl and that some of his recordings may make it to the final cut.

Since I live in Hollywood, and I have heard all sorts of stories about what has gone on during the sessions. It's really amazing and funny.

With that said, my opinion, Chinese Democracy will never be released. Also, go on youtube and you can see some the Chinese Democracy songs played live by Axl. No one cares!

Also, heard a rumor recently that Izzy, Duff, and Matt were ready to do a reunion deal with Axl but they couldn't talk Slash into doing it. No Slash, no GNR. Slash basically said he will never play with Axl again. Take that for what it's worth, which is probably nothing.

Overalls
08-07-2007, 05:44 PM
In a unrelated note I just saw on the news the that Van Halen is getting back together with David Lee Roth for a 50 date upcoming tour. I believe it said that Eddies son is replacing Michael Anthony.

Texan_Bill
08-07-2007, 06:00 PM
From what I understand, Buckethead is done with Axl. And that happened a long time ago.

I believe DB was referring to what is already recorded by Buckethead with Axl and that some of his recordings may make it to the final cut.

Since I live in Hollywood, and I have heard all sorts of stories about what has gone on during the sessions. It's really amazing and funny.

With that said, my opinion, Chinese Democracy will never be released. Also, go on youtube and you can see some the Chinese Democracy songs played live by Axl. No one cares!

Also, heard a rumor recently that Izzy, Duff, and Matt were ready to do a reunion deal with Axl but they couldn't talk Slash into doing it. No Slash, no GNR. Slash basically said he will never play with Axl again. Take that for what it's worth, which is probably nothing.

Thats worth a lot to me... If I am going to follow anyone from that band it would be Slash... Didnt the drummer have a stroke or something? I remember seeings a piece on him and while he didn't have all his faculties back, he was playing drums in a little christian based band (or something to that affect)...

No wonder Shannon Hoon was so strung out. He hung out with Axl way too long and drove him to ODing on a speed ball that he scored down by Numbers... I guess the story was he shot up on the way from Houston to New Orleans and once they arrived in New Orleans the other members of Blind Melon went up to their hotel roomd and Shannon Hoon started wandering the streets afterwards, he crashed on the bus and died in his sleep...

Shame on you Z.cavaricci wearers.....

hollywood_texan
08-07-2007, 06:37 PM
Thats worth a lot to me... If I am going to follow anyone from that band it would be Slash... Didnt the drummer have a stroke or something? I remember seeings a piece on him and while he didn't have all his faculties back, he was playing drums in a little christian based band (or something to that affect)...


The drummer you are referring to is Steven Adler. Actually, I think he has had a couple strokes. I was referring to Matt, who replaced Steven on the Illusion albums.

There is a rock bar where a house band plays (can't say the name though due to the F bomb) that includes touring rock stars and stuff like that. Anyway, big names sometime show up because all these guys know each other, and they play a few songs.

One night Steven Adler showed up. He looked horrible, but is a really nice guy. Played on "It's So Easy" with Dizzy singing, it sounded great.

A guy I know played in a GNR tribute. One show they was in Vegas and Steven Adler showed up. The crowd wanted him to play. If you saw Steven Adler, he has some twitches and doesn't look all there. My friend was a little concerned and thought it was going to be a train wreck. Steven Adler got on the kit and killed "Paradise City". He said it was very impressive given Adler's apperance.

I believe Steven Adler sued Axl because he believed Axl encouraged his herion abuse so he could kick him out of the band.

Oh, one other thing, CC Deville showed up at that club one night and played. That was hilarious and a complete trainwreck. It just amazes me how some people make so much money being a musician with so little ability and other guys that have so much ability can't make a dime. Please note, I am not referring to myself in anyway as a musician with ability. A lot of effort, yes, but my results are lacking on that front.

One lyric I have written is:

"If effort meant results, I would be King of the World!", 4x of course in a type of punk song.

disaacks3
08-07-2007, 06:45 PM
Even though I'm not a big fan of Tom Condon, his escalator clause wasn't asking that much...

"Condon proposed to allow Quinn to get a $5 million increase in the final two years of a potential five-year deal if he takes 55 percent of the snaps in any two of the first three years or 70 percent in any one of the first three. The Browns wanted to make the triggers tougher to reach."

Link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070807/ap_on_sp_fo_ne/fbn_browns_quinn_10;_ylt=Aj5QCcXp_gtmvbIcRFx.cEkE1 vAI)

The guy was asking for Starter $ if he became the Starter...not all that unreasonable.

Texan_Bill
08-07-2007, 06:47 PM
Right on!! That's its Stephen Adler. I remember thinking what a "loser" when he got himself kicked out of the band.. But years later seeing that interview and at that point knowing Axl's act, I really felt bad for Adler. He did seem like a nice guy... And that quasi-Christian band was more of a volunteer thing that he was doing for drug awarness... And I do remember Matt.. Matt Sorum???

I would love to see all the members of G-N-R get back together without Axl. Hell, they could find a tribute singer.. Ripper Owens filled in quite well for Priest...

I also remember seeing an interview with CC DeVille and he as much admitted that he wasnt the greatest guitar player and a self proclaimed train wreck... Saw him on some VH-1 celebrity reality show a few months back. The guy is hillarious - whether he tries to be or not...

Double Barrel
08-07-2007, 06:48 PM
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o195/Specnatz/gun.gif

Awesome smilie. Simply awesome.

By the time it is released, Buckethead may be done with all Axl's BS...

From what I understand, Buckethead is done with Axl. And that happened a long time ago.

I believe DB was referring to what is already recorded by Buckethead with Axl and that some of his recordings may make it to the final cut.

That is correct! Buckethead was paid around a $1 million to be a part of GnR, and recorded some songs and did some live shows. But Axl being Axl, Buckethead got tired of his crap and quit a couple of years ago. Considering that Buckethead will release 4-6 CDs a year, it's really no wonder.

With that said, my opinion, Chinese Democracy will never be released. Also, go on youtube and you can see some the Chinese Democracy songs played live by Axl. No one cares!

Also, heard a rumor recently that Izzy, Duff, and Matt were ready to do a reunion deal with Axl but they couldn't talk Slash into doing it. No Slash, no GNR. Slash basically said he will never play with Axl again. Take that for what it's worth, which is probably nothing.

I think Slash is pretty content with Velvet Revolver right now. It's the music that should have been GnR's if Axl's ego wasn't so giganormous. Heck, it's got three of the GnR members - Slash, Duff, and Matt - so it should sound similar.

Oh, one other thing, CC Deville showed up at that club one night and played. That was hilarious and a complete trainwreck. It just amazes me how some people make so much money being a musician with so little ability and other guys that have so much ability can't make a dime. Please note, I am not referring to myself in anyway as a musician with ability. A lot of effort, yes, but my results are lacking on that front.

I've ready Guitar World articles from studio musicians who wrote and played the parts in studios for the album recordings, and then taught the parts to the specific guitar player. In many cases, it was done because the players were either too messed up on drugs, couldn't hang with recording, or didn't have the talent. The bands mentioned were Poison, Motley Crue, KISS, Aerosmith, and a few others. Very revealing.

hollywood_texan
08-07-2007, 06:54 PM
I've ready Guitar World articles from studio musicians who wrote and played the parts in studios for the album recordings, and then taught the parts to the specific guitar player. In many cases, it was done because the players were either too messed up on drugs, couldn't hang with recording, or didn't have the talent. The bands mentioned were Poison, Motley Crue, KISS, Aerosmith, and a few others. Very revealing.

Heard here in Hollywood from very reliable sources:

1. Nikki Sixx only played ghost tracks on the Girls, Girls, Girls album. What is a ghost track? You record a track but don't use it in the final cut. Basically, the producer says, nice job to Nikki and the next day a studio cat came in and played the bass lines used on the album.

2. I have heard on Appetite that the same thing happened. It appears Slash may not have played all those rhythm parts. All solos though. Could have been a time crunch at the very end. In addition, a lot bass lines were not done by Duff. They used all of Izzy's stuff though.

3. The demo tapes for Appetite were different from the studio recordings. The producer did a really good job from what I have heard from people.

Specnatz
08-07-2007, 07:18 PM
Awesome smilie. Simply awesome.

I realized I had that and thought of you.

Not to hijack a thread that was hijacked but I have others that may prove useful. I will make a thread to put them in so yall can deciede.

Kinda like this for Vinny http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o195/Specnatz/pirate2.gif

Kaiser Toro
08-08-2007, 12:18 AM
This is a funny thread. Brady Quinn brings out the Bowie in metal heads.

I saw the White Ghost Shivers, a vaudevillesque bluegrass band, at Gruene Hall cover Ronnie James Dio's the Last in Line. It was far out, man.

Overalls
08-08-2007, 06:26 AM
This is a funny thread. Brady Quinn brings out the Bowie in metal heads.

I saw the White Ghost Shivers, a vaudevillesque bluegrass band, at Gruene Hall cover Ronnie James Dio's the Last in Line. It was far out, man.


I saw Ronnie James Dio do Ronnie James Dio's Last in Line. Good concert.

ObsiWan
08-08-2007, 07:39 AM
**triple-checks the URL**

ummm... did I get redirected to an MTV message board by mistake???
:shades:

Kaiser Toro
08-08-2007, 09:27 AM
I saw Ronnie James Dio do Ronnie James Dio's Last in Line. Good concert.

I am sure it was great. My first two metal albums purchased were Holy Diver and Last in Line. I had a couple of friends who were metal heads and they liked Sabbath with Dio, but did not like Dio on his own. Not sure why, I thought he rocked, maybe it was because he is a dwarf and they were adopted by midgets.

Mr. White
08-08-2007, 09:37 AM
I just saw Black Sabbath 3-4 months ago in San Antonio. Dio was singing.

I was surprised at how well his voice has held up for a guy his age.

Double Barrel
08-08-2007, 11:18 AM
**triple-checks the URL**

ummm... did I get redirected to an MTV message board by mistake???
:shades:

MTV don't play metal! You crazy. :crazy: