NAACP calls the prosecution of Vick 'criminal'...LOL

[Second Honeymoon]

well I knew it wouldn't take long for some political interest group to play the race card in regards to Vick's dogfighting allegations. And lo and behold, its the NAACP coming to Vick's defense. Aren't these guys supposed to come to the defense of African-Americans who face actual racism and don't have the resources to help themselves? What are they doing saying Vick has been treated unfairly and that its a 'crime' on how he has been treated? His trial hasn't even started yet.

This 'Doctor' is a pile of crap and for the NAACP to champion Vick case is a disservice to the many valid issues that the NAACP has tackled over the years. They should be chiding him if anything. Vick has been perpetuating a negative African-American stereotype and probably set his own race back 20 years with his allegations due to his icon status. Vick's past behavior and attitude (and vocabulary) only perpetuated the 'thug life' that has been so crippling to African-American youth and been so destructive to America in general. The 'get rich quick or die trying' hiphop thug mentality needs to go away and now it seems the NAACP wants to keep those 'values' in place.

I just couldn't believe that they are calling foul play. It's just laughable. Keep on 'keepin it real'....I am sure 'the man' is happy about this.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#

if the video doesn't play automatically go to Vick's Treatment Called Crime

[real]

I don't know what the NAACP is arguing...

They may actually have some valid points, but I'd like to atleast hear their side of it before I make a judgement...

[Mr. White]

I didn't get to the video, but I heard about this story earlier today. It turns out that this is just the Atlanta chapter of the NAACP that supports dogfighting.

The national chapter isn't ready to kill it's credibility yet.

At any rate, this is a real misuse of a powerful position. I don't see how supporting a multi-millionaire organized crime figure advances the cause of the NAACP.

[Mr. White]

I just watched it. Looks to me like a Mike Vick fan trying to use his position as a community leader to advance his cause.

Like I said in my above post, he's doing the entire national organization a disservice by trying to make this a race issue.

[gtexan02]

Especially when some very well known members of the African American community (Sharpten + Russel) have teamed up with PETA saying he should be prosecuted

[Double Barrel]

The Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton trading cards are worth more than one Atlanta chapter NAACP trading card.

ah well, this subject seems to generate too much emotion, and since it has little to do with actual football, hopefully these threads can end up in the NSZ. JMO

[HoustonFrog]

I just watched it. Looks to me like a Mike Vick fan trying to use his position as a community leader to advance his cause.

Like I said in my above post, he's doing the entire national organization a disservice by trying to make this a race issue.

I also am bothered that it is always comes down to the celebrity. Heck, why not have a press conference for all 3-4 men or any other men. This is reeking of a publicity grab. Talking about "piling on."

[The Dream]

I don't know what the NAACP is arguing...

They may actually have some valid points, but I'd like to atleast hear their side of it before I make a judgement...

same here.............I agree that they aren't attacking Vick "because he's black" but more "because he's a big name"....but yeah I'd like to hear their argument first.

[real]

Vick has been perpetuating a negative African-American stereotype and probably set his own race back 20 years with his allegations due to his icon status. Vick's past behavior and attitude (and vocabulary) only perpetuated the 'thug life' that has been so crippling to African-American youth and been so destructive to America in general.

Why does the action of one man cripple a whole race ? Why do his actions "set us back" ?

If a prominent white man were caught fighting dogs would it be crippling to the whole caucasian race ?



The 'get rich quick or die trying' hiphop thug mentality needs to go away and now it seems the NAACP wants to keep those 'values' in place.

What are you talking about ?

"Get rich or die trying" has nothing to do with dog fighting...

Dog fighting is a sport...It's a nasty and illegal sport, but nevertheless it's still a sport...It's something people enjoy...They want to raise and train the biggest baddest and meanest dog...The money isn't why people get into dog fighting...

And secondly, "get rich or die trying" is not race, nor culture specific...Sure 50 cent said it, and put it in those terms, but not one race nor culture is innocent of trying to cheat the government at the hopes of getting rich even at the possible exspense of their life...And to say that the NCAA has anything to do with this is ludicrous....

People trying to get rich quick has been happening since the beggining of time....The NCAA won't be the driving force behind it, and you won't be the opposing force to stop it...

[The Dream]

At any rate, this is a real misuse of a powerful position. I don't see how supporting a multi-millionaire organized crime figure advances the cause of the NAACP

I agree

Why does the action of one man cripple a whole race ? Why do his actions "set us back" ?

If a prominent white man were caught fighting dogs would it be crippling to the whole caucasian race ?


I see where you're coming from, but unfortunately for black folks when one of us screws up it makes all of us look bad.............for "some" reason.

[HOU-TEX]

The Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton trading cards are worth more than one Atlanta chapter NAACP trading card.

ah well, this subject seems to generate too much emotion, and since it has little to do with actual football, hopefully these threads can end up in the NSZ. JMO

I agree! We're going to be hearing about this case all season long.

At least merge all the Vick BS into one sticky thread or something.:cool:

[nunusguy]

From a purely legal perspective, I go along with the NCAAs take on this. Vick is being railroaded: he was being tried, convicted, and sentenced in public circles before he even entered his NG virdict last week.
And once again, I got to wonder where this Boards lefties are, the libs, the card-carrying members of the Democratic party who are so interested in making sure everyone's due process is respected. Either they have more concerns about the rights of the Islamic terrorists who would destroy our
counrty or they are worryed about criticism from their peers for having Vicks
back (in terms of his legal rights) on what is a very unpopular activity to say the least in which Vick is accused of being involved in.
BTW, I suspect the ATL chapter of the NCAA has significant infleunce upon the national level. ATL is primarily an African-American city (not the 'burbs),
which is of course the home of MLK. It's always considered one of the if not the leading AA cultural center of this country.
Another thing FWIW. What % of NFL players (who of course are majority AA), would be concerned about Vicks treatment here ? I think that is important consideration ?

[Silver Oak]

They may actually have some valid points,


I doubt that. If they did even have a point for even commenting on the Vick case, it would be surprising.

[Kaiser Toro]

From a purely legal perspective, I go along with the NCAAs take on this. Vick is being railroaded: he was being tried, convicted, and sentenced in public circles before he even entered his NG virdict last week.
And once again, I got to wonder where this Boards lefties are, the libs, the card-carrying members of the Democratic party who are so interested in making sure everyone's due process is respected. Either they have more concerns about the rights of the Islamic terrorists who would destroy our
counrty or they are worryed about criticism from their peers for having Vicks
back (in terms of his legal rights) on what is a very unpopular activity to say the least in which Vick is accused of being involved in.
BTW, I suspect the ATL chapter of the NCAA has significant infleunce upon the national level. ATL is primarily an African-American city (not the 'burbs),
which is of course the home of MLK. It's always considered one of the if not the leading AA cultural center of this country.
Another thing FWIW. What % of NFL players (who of course are majority AA), would be concerned about Vicks treatment here ? I think that is important consideration ?

The boards lefties, much like in the political dialogue in this country, are a made up entity to promote a social conservative agenda that must have a recognizable bogeyman in order for the base to attack.

[real]

From a purely legal perspective, I go along with the NCAAs take on this. Vick is being railroaded: he was being tried, convicted, and sentenced in public circles before he even entered his NG virdict last week.


I agree.

I'm more concerened with the rights of the individual moreso than I am with the individual himself.

Vick being convicted before he is actually convicted isn't a good thing no matter how you spin it.

I'm not going to say race has everything to do with the publics attitude towards MV...I won't even go as far as to say it has 'a lot' to do with it...But you'd have to be really naive to think his race has 'nothing' to do with how this case is being handled AND looked at...

[HoustonFrog]

From a purely legal perspective, I go along with the NCAAs take on this. Vick is being railroaded: he was being tried, convicted, and sentenced in public circles before he even entered his NG virdict last week.
And once again, I got to wonder where this Boards lefties are, the libs, the card-carrying members of the Democratic party who are so interested in making sure everyone's due process is respected. Either they have more concerns about the rights of the Islamic terrorists who would destroy our
counrty or they are worryed about criticism from their peers for having Vicks
back (in terms of his legal rights) on what is a very unpopular activity to say the least in which Vick is accused of being involved in.
BTW, I suspect the ATL chapter of the NCAA has significant infleunce upon the national level. ATL is primarily an African-American city (not the 'burbs),
which is of course the home of MLK. It's always considered one of the if not the leading AA cultural center of this country.
Another thing FWIW. What % of NFL players (who of course are majority AA), would be concerned about Vicks treatment here ? I think that is important consideration ?

Well written but I completely disagree. Where is he being railroaded legally?There was a long term investigation that yielded evidence. The evidence was then combed through and Vick was indicted. He bonded out after his plea of "Not Guilty" and is now awaiting trial. All by the book. His employer is suspending him for the time being, pending the trial..something done in many normal situations. I'm trying to figure out how people are piling on?Americans have opinions. You take a set of facts..he owned the house, etc, read the indictment and then draw conclusions. But my opinion doesn't affect Vick or make him railroaded. He is still going through the process whether I think he is guilty or not. If some Feds broke into your office after months of surveillance and people thought you had information regarding a federal crime, I guarantee your work place wouldn't have you hanging out at the office until your trial.

[Specnatz]

From a purely legal perspective, I go along with the NCAAs take on this. Vick is being railroaded: he was being tried, convicted, and sentenced in public circles before he even entered his NG virdict last week.And once again, I got to wonder where this Boards lefties are, the libs, the card-carrying members of the Democratic party who are so interested in making sure everyone's due process is respected. Either they have more concerns about the rights of the Islamic terrorists who would destroy our
counrty or they are worryed about criticism from their peers for having Vicks
back (in terms of his legal rights) on what is a very unpopular activity to say the least in which Vick is accused of being involved in.
BTW, I suspect the ATL chapter of the NCAA has significant infleunce upon the national level. ATL is primarily an African-American city (not the 'burbs),
which is of course the home of MLK. It's always considered one of the if not the leading AA cultural center of this country.
Another thing FWIW. What % of NFL players (who of course are majority AA), would be concerned about Vicks treatment here ? I think that is important consideration ?

I guess you could go out and be arrested for this and your employer would say well you have yet to be convicted don't worry about it I will let the PETA groups and animal rights groups protest infront of my building and lose millions of dollars but hey continue to work in that cubical or what ever. ........... I CALL BULLCRAP on that one.

He was not fired by the NFL he was told to stay away from training camp with pay ... let me repeat that for you WITH PAY. doh the railroad just went onto another track.

Nike did not terminate vick's contract, they suspended sales of his merchandise until the results of the legal process are concluded. Again he was NOT FIRED. Opps I guess the naacp forgot to mention that. Ken Lay was pretty much convicted in the court of public opinion, do you think the local chapter of the naacp were defending him.

With incodents like last two years ago with the Philadelphia chapter of the naacp calling out Donavan McNabb about being a real blackman against TO, yes the naacp has a whole lot of credibility.

[The Dream]

I'm not going to say race has everything to do with the publics attitude towards MV...I won't even go as far as to say it has 'a lot' to do with it...But you'd have to be really naive to think his race has 'nothing' to do with how this case is being handled AND looked at...

I think "race" argument has to do more with how the media is portraying Mike Vick......

[real]

Well written but I completely disagree. Where is he being railroaded legally?

I don't see where he said MV is being "railroaded legally"...

[Mr. White]

I don't see where he said MV is being "railroaded legally"...

He didn't. Frog's point was that he isn't being railroaded by the legal process.


At least I think so.

[real]

He didn't. Frog's point was that he isn't being railroaded by the legal process.


At least I think so.

So in essence he's arguing against no one.

[Double Barrel]

Vick is being railroaded: he was being tried, convicted, and sentenced in public circles before he even entered his NG virdict last week.

Public opinion cannot be filed as evidence in this case, so it will not have any bearing on the outcome or potential punishment.

I'm not going to say race has everything to do with the publics attitude towards MV...I won't even go as far as to say it has 'a lot' to do with it...But you'd have to be really naive to think his race has 'nothing' to do with how this case is being handled AND looked at...

C'mon, man...Vick is one of the NFL's most popular players. He has had the 2nd highest jersey sales for years now. His popularity has everything to do with the public interest.

Do you honestly believe that things would be different if they discovered that Tom Brady or Peyton Manning were alleged to have committed these felonies? I'd say the public attention would be much, much greater, simply because these guys have won Super Bowls.

The only time race has been mentioned in this case: 1) when someone tries to excuse dog fighting as a cultural thing to be justified because of race, 2) some folks try to deflect criticism from Vick because of his race.

Unfortunately, the usual purveyors of racial inequalities in the media are on the other side of this one. When Jesse and Al decide not to play the race card, I don't think it has any legs at that point. The logic is just not holding any water.

[nunusguy]

I guess you could go out and be arrested for this and your employer would say well you have yet to be convicted don't worry about it I will let the PETA groups and animal rights groups protest infront of my building and lose millions of dollars but hey continue to work in that cubical or what ever. ........... I CALL BULLCRAP on that one.

That's not what I'm talking about. That's the Business perspective, and that
is totally apart from and different than the legal perspective.
I think Arhtur Blank can set down any rules of conduct (within the law of course) he chooses for his employess and forbid them to step foot on his property if anyone of them violates those rules. And what the commish expects from his NFL players encompasses much more than legal considerations, and that's OK.
I'm talking about public opinion led by the national media crucifying Vick before he even entered his not guilty plea, let alone had his day in court.
Does that not sound all too familiar to you ? It sure does to me.

[HoustonFrog]

He didn't. Frog's point was that he isn't being railroaded by the legal process.


At least I think so.

So in essence he's arguing against no one.

Right. He said that he legally agreed with the NAACP

From a purely legal perspective, I go along with the NCAAs take on this. Vick is being railroaded:

...which in essence said that he was being piled on and treated unjustly. Why bring up "legally" if he wasn't talking about the process?My argument was that it is totally untrue. America's opinion has nothing to do with the legal process right now. Its been by the book, no matter the circus around it. The argument was completely in context.

I'm also trying to figure out when I got on Xtru's bad side..lol

I'm with DB here, if this was Manning or anyone else there would still be 24-hr news watch.

[Mr. White]

Right. He said that he legally agreed with the NAACP...which in essence said that he was being piled on and treated unjustly. Why bring up "legally" if he wasn't talking about the process?

So he could bait "Boards lefties, the libs, the card-carrying members of the Democratic party......."

Maybe this thread does belong in the Political subforum.

[real]

Americans have opinions.

Exactly



But my opinion doesn't affect Vick or make him railroaded.


He never said your opinion did...

Just as you said "Americans have opinions", it is his opinion that many Americans unfairly called for his head before MV was given the due process...

I agree...Before the indictment even came out and the details were vague at best and sketchy at worse there were many people that had already assumed guilt...There were also another handful that just "wanted" him to be guilty, and there was another handful that wanted him to go down regardless of whether he was truly guilty or not...

I'm not sure how you could argue that...

No one has said that this is THE REASON Vick is being presumed to be guilty, but the fact that Vick is Vick has definitely played a role in how SOME Americans (with opinions) have approached this case...

[Porky]

I agree.

I'm more concerened with the rights of the individual moreso than I am with the individual himself.

Vick being convicted before he is actually convicted isn't a good thing no matter how you spin it.

I'm not going to say race has everything to do with the publics attitude towards MV...I won't even go as far as to say it has 'a lot' to do with it...But you'd have to be really naive to think his race has 'nothing' to do with how this case is being handled AND looked at...


How does his race have anything to do with it?

And it's really sickening to me that you referenced dog fighting as a sport.

[Mr. White]

About the race issue...........

Here's Jesse James from "Monster Garage," owner of numerous pit bulls.

http://c.myspace.com/Groups/00017/56/56/17446565_l.jpg

IMO it only became a race issue when a guy used his position at the NAACP to weigh in.

[HoustonFrog]

Exactly

He never said your opinion did...

Just as you said "Americans have opinions", it is his opinion that many Americans unfairly called for his head before MV was given the due process...

I agree...Before the indictment even came out and the details were vague at best and sketchy at worse there were many people that had already assumed guilt...There were also another handful that just "wanted" him to be guilty, and there was another handful that wanted him to go down regardless of whether he was truly guilty or not...

I'm not sure how you could argue that...

No one has said that this is THE REASON Vick is being presumed to be guilty, but the fact that Vick is Vick has definitely played a role in how SOME Americans (with opinions) have approached this case...

I just posted it above...reasons. Re-read his quote. He said, in quotes that the NAACP was right legally..he was railroaded. To me that meant that he wasn't getting his due process. My only argument was that it is completely false, he has gotten the due process afforded to anyone else.

But again, I'll disagree as for "unfairly" convicting someone with sketchy facts. Opinions are just that and people are going to take them for what they are. The NAACP video claimed that the NFL and others are unfairly piling on. I don't know how you can call an opinion unfair at this time when people are just reading the indictment..which isn't sketchy and voicing an opinion. I've heard just as many people claim he is innocent because he is a good guy, plays an exciting QB and is being set up.

My comments are regarding the "legal" comment. Again, I'm not sure what your beef is with me.

[real]

I'm with DB here, if this was Manning or anyone else there would still be 24-hr news watch.

If anyone famous or well known was indicted on charges like this there would be 24-hr news watch. That's not saying much.

The difference is that if Manning was indicticted for similar charges a lot more people would presume innocence before guilt....

Of course some of that would have to do with the fact Vick's past is less than clean while Manning doesn't seem to have any blemishes, but there would still be a piece of the public that would want to covict Mike and save Manning based on the fact that one is white, and one is black...One is hip hop, one wants to Cut that meat...lol...(just a joke)

No one is accusing anyone on this board of feeling this way, but to discredit the fact that there probably is a good deal of people out there who feel that way is walking with closed eyes...

At the same time I will say that there are Blacks guilty of the same thing...There are blacks that wanted to see OJ walk and vick set free merely because they are black...They are just as bad....

My only point is that before the indictment was issued there were already opinions formed about this case and all of those opinions didn't form because of the facts that were presented...

[Koolaid Time]

Music to read the Mike Vick threads by....

Listening to people debate the merits of that vermin Mike Vick calls for the appropriate music…

May I suggest George Clinton's "Atomic Dog"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuyS9M8T03A

[HoustonFrog]

Exactly

He never said your opinion did...

Just as you said "Americans have opinions", it is his opinion that many Americans unfairly called for his head before MV was given the due process...

I agree...Before the indictment even came out and the details were vague at best and sketchy at worse there were many people that had already assumed guilt...There were also another handful that just "wanted" him to be guilty, and there was another handful that wanted him to go down regardless of whether he was truly guilty or not...

I'm not sure how you could argue that...

No one has said that this is THE REASON Vick is being presumed to be guilty, but the fact that Vick is Vick has definitely played a role in how SOME Americans (with opinions) have approached this case...

I just posted it above...reasons. Re-read his quote. He said, in quotes that the NAACP was right legally..he was railroaded. To me that meant that he wasn't getting his due process. My only argument was that it is completely false, he has gotten the due process afforded to anyone else.

But again, I'll disagree as for "unfairly" convicting someone with sketchy facts. Opinions are just that and people are going to take them for what they are. The NAACP video claimed that the NFL and others are unfairly piling on. I don't know how you can call an opinion unfair at this time when people are just reading the indictment..which isn't sketchy and voicing an opinion. I've heard just as many people claim he is innocent because he is a good guy, plays an exciting QB and is being set up.

My comments are regarding the "legal" comment. His quote was:

From a purely legal perspective, I go along with the NCAAs take on this. Vick is being railroaded:

Again, I'm not sure what your beef is with me.

[Texan_Bill]

About the race issue...........

Here's Jesse James from "Monster Garage," owner of numerous pit bulls.

http://c.myspace.com/Groups/00017/56/56/17446565_l.jpg

IMO it only became a race issue when a guy used his position at the NAACP to weigh in.

He's also known to "rescue" many other species of dogs too... Last episode of Monster Garage (on the road in New York) he found a puppy at the salvage yard with a deformed paw and "rescued" it as well....

How many dogs has Mike rescued again???

[HoustonFrog]

If anyone famous or well known was indicted on charges like this there would be 24-hr news watch. That's not saying much.

The difference is that if Manning was indicticted for similar charges a lot more people would presume innocence before guilt....

Of course some of that would have to do with the fact Vick's past is less than clean while Manning doesn't seem to have any blemishes, but there would still be a piece of the public that would want to covict Mike and save Manning based on the fact that one is white, and one is black...One is hip hop, one wants to Cut that meat...lol...(just a joke)

No one is accusing anyone on this board of feeling this way, but to discredit the fact that there probably is a good deal of people out there who feel that way is walking with closed eyes...
At the same time I will say that there are Blacks guilty of the same thing...There are blacks that wanted to see OJ walk and vick set free merely because they are black...

My only point is that before the indictment was issued there were already opinions formed about this case and all of those opinions didn't form because of the facts that were presented...

You're barking up the wrong tree here. I'm not naive and I know race enters ignorant people's minds. I agree. But can't the same be said by the fact that the NAACP is making it even more about race with their statements?I explained myself on this page and how it related to Nun's quote. But to reitterate, I do think there are many ignorant people in this country when it comes to race. I just think it covers both sides.

[real]

My comments are regarding the "legal" comment. Again, I'm not sure what your beef is with me.

Don't have any beef with you...

I think we just took his comment differently because what I got out of it was that he was saying that Vick had been railroaded by the pubilc and possible some individual 'rights groups'...


But as far as the beef thing, I don't see Screen names and handles...just statements....

[HoustonFrog]

Don't have any beef with you...

I think we just took his comment differently because what I got out of it was that he was saying that Vick had been railroaded by the pubilc and possible some individual 'rights groups'...


But as far as the beef thing, I don't see Screen names and handles...just statements....

Cool, because I respect your posts. I took it as the legal process he was going through and what his employer had done. As you said, we took his comments in different contexts.

[real]

You're barking up the wrong tree here. I'm not naive and I know race enters ignorant people's minds. I agree. But can't the same be said by the fact that the NAACP is making it even more about race with their statements?I explained myself on this page and how it related to Nun's quote. But to reitterate, I do think there are many ignorant people in this country when it comes to race. I just think it covers both sides.

IMO, as long as there are different races, race will always be a 'problem'.

No the NAACP isn't making "more" about race. They are simply stating their opinion on the subject. If you feel like there is any injustice going on that affected you would you keep your mouth closed ?

And I'm not really taking up for the NAACP as much as I am taking up for the fact that they felt there was an issue and they spoke out about it no matter how many feathers they knew they'd ruffle...

...Do you think that if the same set of circumstances that are surounding MV were surrounding Joe Namath (or some other popular white player who had somewhat of an edge) there'd be the same kind of reaction from the public ?

And when I say the same type of reaction, I mean a vast majority wanting his head on a stake...

[Hagar]

And once again, I got to wonder where this Boards lefties are, the libs, the card-carrying members of the Democratic party who are so interested in making sure everyone's due process is respected. Either they have more concerns about the rights of the Islamic terrorists who would destroy our counrty or they are worryed about criticism from their peers for having Vicks back (in terms of his legal rights) on what is a very unpopular activity to say the least in which Vick is accused of being involved in.Most lefties are card carrying PETA members too. When it comes to cruelty to animals, few things are deemed more socially unacceptable by both sides of the isle.

[HoustonFrog]

IMO, as long as there are different races, race will always be a 'problem'.

No the NAACP isn't making "more" about race. They are simply stating their opinion on the subject. If you feel like there is any injustice going on that affected you would you keep your mouth closed ?

And I'm not really taking up for the NAACP as much as I am taking up for the fact that they felt there was an issue and they spoke out about it no matter how many feathers they knew they'd ruffle...

...Do you think that if the same set of circumstances that are surounding MV were surrounding Joe Namath (or some other popular white player who had somewhat of an edge) there'd be the same kind of reaction from the public ?

And when I say the same type of reaction, I mean a vast majority wanting his head on a stake...

I think they made it more about race because they are saying he is being unfairly treated and they are the NAACP. I mean Sharpton and others have stayed away. I respect that chapters opinion but I disagree with the stance at this time.

As for the Joe Namath thing I think it would be just as bad, yes, but maybe for other reasons. I mean he was ramrodded for his drunken, Susie Kolbler stuff. People would think he was an moron too. I just don't look at this as black and white. I think the media has turned it a little more black and white because of the split. As I've read in articles the courthose is split between people who are African-American saying give him due process and those, who happen to be white that are picketing for the fact that dog fighting is horrible. I also think it would be naive if people didn't realize that the split wasn't happening on radio talk shows. However, that doesn't mean I think the case is because he is black, etc.

Maybe it is because I'm in the legal profession but people like Scott Peterson were convicted WAY before they went to trial. I thought he should burn in hell but there was no outrage as to a rush to judgement. Robert Blake...people think he is as bad as they come. The list can go on and on.

I guess my point ends up being that the race thing can go both ways. It is naive to not think its not in people's heads but I think it is in all races heads because playing the race card can be just as damning as people who are ignorant and racist.

[real]

And it's really sickening to me that you referenced dog fighting as a sport.

Maybe you just didn't follow..

Someone compared MV's doings to the 'get rich or die trying' mentality...

And I said that dog fighting wasn't about getting rich, it was about the sport of it...

Maybe looking up sport in the dictionary will comfort some of that sickness you feel...

[Double Barrel]

If anyone famous or well known was indicted on charges like this there would be 24-hr news watch. That's not saying much.

The difference is that if Manning was indicticted for similar charges a lot more people would presume innocence before guilt....

I think people assume the worst, regardless of who it is.

I know I'd feel the exact same way if I read an 18-page indictment of Peyton Manning being charges with numerous felonies.

Just look at Scott Peterson for an example of a middle-class white dude who was guilty in the media's perspective before he was tried in a court of law. Nancy Grace goes for sensational stories with little regard of race, background, etc.

[real]

I think they made it more about race because they are saying he is being unfairly treated and they are the NAACP. I mean Sharpton and others have stayed away. I respect that chapters opinion but I disagree with the stance at this time.

As for the Joe Namath thing I think it would be just as bad, yes, but maybe for other reasons. I mean he was ramrodded for his drunken, Susie Kolbler stuff. People would think he was an *****. I just don't look at this as black and white. I think the media has turned it a little more black and white because of the split. As I've read in articles the courthose is split between people who are African-American saying give him due process and those, who happen to be white that are picketing for the fact that dog fighting is horrible. I also think it would be naive if people didn't realize that the split wasn't happening on radio talk shows. However, that doesn't mean I think the case is because he is black, etc.

Maybe it is because I'm in the legal profession but people like Scott Peterson were convicted WAY before they went to trial. I thought he should burn in hell but there was no outrage as to a rush to judgement. Robert Blake...people think he is as bad as they come. The list can go on and on.

I don't really disagree with what you're saying...

And I haven't called out any individual, but I do believe that the fact that he's MV has played a part in some of the public's perception...That's not saying much, but I'm just voicing my opinion that "race" does have something to do with this..

I think with some people it's on a sub-concious level, and I think with others they simply just don't like other races...But never the less, I think race does play a part in how some folks have approached this case...

I wouldn't go as far to say it has affected the legal process though, and IMHO that's all that really matters...

[HoustonFrog]

I think people assume the worst, regardless of who it is.

I know I'd feel the exact same way if I read an 18-page indictment of Peyton Manning being charges with numerous felonies.

Just look at Scott Peterson for an example of a middle-class white dude who was guilty in the media's perspective before he was tried in a court of law. Nancy Grace goes for sensational stories with little regard of race, background, etc.

He was my last point in my response before this. It happens alot more than people think when they look around.

[real]

I think people assume the worst, regardless of who it is.

I know I'd feel the exact same way if I read an 18-page indictment of Peyton Manning being charges with numerous felonies.


I'm not going to lie...

If Peyton was in this same exact situation I'd give him more benefit of the doubt that MV...

[HoustonFrog]

I don't really disagree with what you're saying...

And I haven't called out any individual, but I do believe that the fact that he's MV has played a part in some of the public's perception...That's not saying much, but I'm just voicing my opinion that "race" does have something to do with this..

I think with some people it's on a sub-concious level, and I think with others they simply just don't like other races...But never the less, I think race does play a part in how some folks have approached this case...

I wouldn't go as far to say it has affected the legal process though, and IMHO that's all that really matters...

That's really what I was arguing all along. I don't think it has affected the process.

I don't claim to know who is ignorant out there due to racism and I'm sure there are some of these that have the mind set of "MV=black=hiphop=thug=guilty." But overall I would like to think that the case really is about some horrible incidents and horrible crimes that were committed by a popular athlete who many loved to watch...black or white...thus the public up in arms.

[Porky]

Hey, Froggie. Since you are a lawyer, I have a question. Let's say the media blitz on this continues, like it did for Scott Peterson. In Federal Court, can one motion for a change of venue like you can in Criminal Court? Just curious.

Where would they go? Mars?:gun:

[HoustonFrog]

Hey, Froggie. Since you are a lawyer, I have a question. Let's say the media blitz on this continues, like it did for Scott Peterson. In Federal Court, can one motion for a change of venue like you can in Criminal Court? Just curious.

You can get a change of venue in federal court. I wouldn't think it would happen here. An example is Timothy McVeigh. They moved him from Federal Courts in Oklahoma City to Denver. High Profile but probably much more prejudicial to him considering the acts in Oklahoma City....loss of life and tainted jury pool. Considering Vick and how popular he is nationally, I'm not sure if it would do any good. But to answer your question, yes, they could file it claiming pre-trial publicity has caused such an inflammatory environment that he couldn't receive a fair trial. It is a harsh rule though and a pretty tough one to crack I believe.

[Tedc]

I'm not going to lie...

If Peyton was in this same exact situation I'd give him more benefit of the doubt that MV...

Why??

Is it the whole character thing?

If they had that kind of evidence against ANYONE it would be hard not to pass judgement before the whole legal process. The important thing here is that he put himself in this situation, innocent or not, and he is the one who will need to provide answers the the allegations.

Yes, Vick has rights but so does the Federal government when they have so much evidence against a person and they need to have the ability to try an individual whether he is a celebrity or not.

[real]

Why??

Is it the whole character thing?

If they had that kind of evidence against ANYONE it would be hard not to pass judgement before the whole legal process. The important thing here is that he put himself in this situation, innocent or not, and he is the one who will need to provide answers the the allegations.

Yes, Vick has rights but so does the Federal government when they have so much evidence against a person and they need to have the ability to try an individual whether he is a celebrity or not.


I was talking about before the indictment...should have been more clear...

[hobie]

Well they can move it to wherever they want to, but all they would be doing is delaying the trial. Is he guilty, who knows...But he is a man of little class with all he has done over the years, and that will be hard to get out of the minds of the potential jurists...

Geez, I wish Bonds would get 756 and Vick get his crap over with, as this takes away from what should be a great time of year..the playoff races and the start of football....Too bad this is all tainted with this legal crap and speculations...

[shinerbock_girl]

I totally concur.

I second that!!

[michaelm]

Cool, because I respect your posts. I took it as the legal process he was going through and what his employer had done. As you said, we took his comments in different contexts.

I think that may have something to do with how each of you defines and uses the word "railroaded".
I suspect that your definition is closer to mine, in that a person can only be "railroaded" by the legal system... ie, rushed through to conviction without due process.
Others are using the term to describe how people have pre-judged Vicks guilt... IMO, that doesn't fall under the term "railroaded"... it's just opinion...

[Red_Zone]

Ok, we had a motion, a second and a third when SBG swore in. Can we lock this crap down yet?

Go to AtlantaFacons.com if there is anything further!!!

Is someone holding a gun to your head to make you read these threads Elle? By my count there are more people who want to discuss this than those who don't and it's absurd to say this has nothing to do with football. This situation has given a big black eye to the NFL as a whole and the Falcons and Arthur Blank in particular, it's ALL about football.So those of you that say it isn't about football are just whistling into the wind.

I notice you didn't say to go to the LPGA to discuss this, you said the Falcons board, a FOOTBALL board, so it IS about football.

[Double Barrel]

So those of you that say it isn't about football are just whistling into the wind.

It's not about the game of football. This story relates to the business of the NFL.

Do you see the difference?

I only mentioned the NSZ because there seems to be some emotion behind the debate, and the discussion has little to do with the business of the NFL and more to do with the social implications of the case.

There is nothing absurd about it. Some of us would rather be engrossed with the game of football at this time of year.

[HOU-TEX]

It's not about the game of football. This story relates to the business of the NFL.

Do you see the difference?

I only mentioned the NSZ because there seems to be some emotion behind the debate, and the discussion has little to do with the business of the NFL and more to do with the social implications of the case.

There is nothing absurd about it. Some of us would rather be engrossed with the game of football at this time of year.

I 2nd this.:texflag:

[Vinny]

Ok, we had a motion, a second and a third when SBG swore in. Can we lock this crap down yet?

Go to AtlantaFacons.com if there is anything further!!!
no reason to lock this thread or delete it at all. Don't click on it if you don't like it