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Texan_Bill
05-22-2009, 09:26 AM
Little had many DUIs before he finally killed someone.

Listen, I think Little is a POS, but care to back that up??

DBCooper
05-22-2009, 02:08 PM
why did he kill your dog? Peta clowns kill dogs on a regular basis. What he did was not right but I just can't put dogs on the level with humans....thats why they are called dogs.

Why does it have to be my dog for me to think he is a scumbag?

Level with humans? Most humans are scumbags, I put animals above most of the people I've met.

CloakNNNdagger
05-22-2009, 06:35 PM
Leonard little a one time offender..lol. He killed a human being. Little had many DUIs before he finally killed someone.

Sure he did. There is a reason when he was arrested in 2004 it was called the second arrest. Care to guess why?

FYI, Little was accused of speeding while DIU in 2004 when he was arrested. They never performed blood work, and therefore he ended up with a simple misdemeanor speeding ticket.

infantrycak
05-23-2009, 12:46 PM
FYI, Little was accused of speeding while DIU in 2004 when he was arrested. They never performed blood work, and therefore he ended up with a simple misdemeanor speeding ticket.

He was charged with both speeding and DUI. They did not do blood work but testified to failed field sobriety tests. Both were tried and he was acquitted of DUI and found guilty of speeding. It was a felony prosecution as a potential repeat offender. Bottom line though is he is legally a one time DUI offender (and the only potential second offense was after not before the important one) so ubecool is off base.

CloakNNNdagger
05-23-2009, 05:29 PM
He was charged with both speeding and DUI. They did not do blood work but testified to failed field sobriety tests. Both were tried and he was acquitted of DUI and found guilty of speeding. It was a felony prosecution as a potential repeat offender. Bottom line though is he is legally a one time DUI offender (and the only potential second offense was after not before the important one) so ubecool is off base.

And evidently was found to smell like a brewery. But, no doubt, he is, indeed, considered a one-time offender.

ObsiWan
05-25-2009, 02:14 PM
I know a couple of others have already touched on your post here, but it is such a horrible post on so many levels that I will reply as well.

Yes, dogs die everyday. So that makes it ok to kill them in your head?

You know, now that I think of it, people die everyday too. So the act of killing people might as well go unpunished because as Obsiwan so delicately put it, they die everyday.

And yes, nobody is going to track you down if you take your dog ALONE to the woods and shoot it. I would assume because nobody is there to see it, or knows about your dog... But lets see how long you stay out of jail if you just start blasting dogs in front of your neighbors.

You should probably stop posting in this thread because you are way off base here...

My point is that he didn't to jail time for killing those dogs. He did jail time for the illegal gambling and dog fighting operation.

And I don't recall reading or hearing where Vick and his "posse" strangled/killed those pit bulls in front of his neighbors either. Of course he would have been reported to the SPCA a lot sooner if he had; killing animals in public view - by any means - was a stupid thing to even think of - I'm trying understand why you would bring it up. Even Vick wasn't that stupid.

...and you might notice that no where in my post did I say that their chosen method for killing those dogs was right or even understandable to any "normal" person - meaning anyone who didn't grow up in that environment.

It was sadistic and wrong

...but that's not why he did time. The local yokels could have taken him down for killing those dogs using cruelty to animals statutes but they fumbled their investigation. It took the Feds to bring him down on that gambling operation.

ObsiWan
05-25-2009, 02:45 PM
This is completely backwards. Vick was not indicted or tried on any gambling charges. In fact, the gambling has not been addressed at all and leaves Goodell in a position to lifetime ban Vick from the NFL.

You're right.
I went back and re-read the indictment (http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:JJ1hGgEugcMJ:www.lcanimal.org/cmpgn/dog_fight/vick_indictment.pdf+michael+vick+indictment+pdf&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)and it was not gambling, per se, but the dog-fighting operation that got Vick busted. Although there are paragraphs in the indictment that mention Vick getting paid, but it was for winning matches, not payoffs of bets. When I first read thru the indictment, back when, I took those paragraphs to refer to gambling. It seems like a play on words or whatever that if you win money because the dog you backed won, that's not technically betting. what the hell else is it?

And as far as him coming back, I think he should. There won't be anywhere he will play that he won't be hounded and harrassed. No matter how many "I'm sorry's" he sings, some folks will never let it go. He'll not know a moments peace.

CloakNNNdagger
06-12-2009, 09:17 AM
IT'S OFFICIAL (http://www.atlantafalcons.com/News/Articles/2009/06/11-20/Dimitroff_discusses_release_of_Michael_Vick.aspx). ..............the Falcons released Vick today.......and, of course, with the "we wish him good luck." Translation: "Kiss my ass, we're finally rid of you."

HoustonFrog
06-12-2009, 09:28 AM
I almost bumped this yesterday because of this article yesterday. This sentence for 15 months isn't too far below a certain someones who actually ran a multistate ring...of course it was federal time but it isn't like they are just slapping these guys wrists and decided Vick would be made an example. It is these stories that people miss and then say uninformed remarks defending Vick.


http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/metro/6469169.html

A Houston man was sentenced to 15 months in jail for dogfighting after pleading guilty in state District Judge Mark Ellis’ court, according to court records.

Sterling Honoray Bates, 35, on Tuesday pleaded guilty to intentionally and knowingly causing a dog to fight. He was among 60 people accused of taking part in a sophisticated, lucrative dogfighting ring in November.

Bates also pleaded guilty to a Class A misdemeanor of attending a dog-fight as a spectator and received a 100-day jail term.

Mari-OWNED!
06-12-2009, 09:35 AM
Now all eyes will be on Roger Goodell. Personally I hope Goodell does not reinstate him.

CloakNNNdagger
06-12-2009, 12:17 PM
I almost bumped this yesterday because of this article yesterday. This sentence for 15 months isn't too far below a certain someones who actually ran a multistate ring...of course it was federal time but it isn't like they are just slapping these guys wrists and decided Vick would be made an example. It is these stories that people miss and then say uninformed remarks defending Vick.


http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/metro/6469169.html

The above spectator status mandates a $4000 dollar fine on top of up to 1 year in jail.

Bates was a "participant" and spectator. The fines in each case were not mentioned (the fine for participation is dictated by the judge)..

But the fate of "ring leader" Donald Woods (Vick's counterpart) has not yet been determined. It will be interesting how this will compare to Vick's.

MojoMan
06-12-2009, 12:31 PM
Well, he is still under suspension by the NFL, but he has been released by the Falcons after they were unable to trade him. Surely the NFL will release him from suspension at some point. But will it be prior to training camp this year?

I cannot imagine that the Texans will look at him. But maybe someone around here thinks otherwise. If not the Falcons or the Texans, then where does could he go? And, after all this time off, can he even play anymore?

Unable to make trade, Falcons cut Vick (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4253231)

ATLANTA -- Quarterback Michael Vick's time with the Atlanta Falcons is officially over.

Vick, who is serving the remainder of his prison sentence on dogfighting charges under house arrest in Virginia, was released by the team Friday.

"Michael remains suspended by the NFL," Falcons general manager Thomas Dimitroff said in a statement. "However, in the event NFL commissioner Roger Goodell decides to reinstate Michael, we feel his best opportunity to re-engage his football career would be at another club.

"Our entire organization sincerely hopes that Michael will continue to focus his efforts making positive changes in his life and we wish him well in that regard."

The Falcons have been trying to trade Vick for months, but found no takers. Instead of holding onto him and hoping that someone would step forward with a trade, they chose to put the Vick era behind them.

....

Goldensilence
06-12-2009, 01:01 PM
Well, he is still under suspension by the NFL, but he has been released by the Falcons after they were unable to trade him. Surely the NFL will release him from suspension at some point. But will it be prior to training camp this year?

I cannot imagine that the Texans will look at him. But maybe someone around here thinks otherwise. If not the Falcons or the Texans, then where does could he go? And, after all this time off, can he even play anymore?

Rex Grossman>Mike Vick

CloakNNNdagger
06-12-2009, 01:11 PM
Rex Grossman>Mike Vick

It seems that one by one, the teams that have been rumored to be interested in Vick, have recently put out official statements that they wish him good luck............"but not here."

Look to the USFL to use him as a "come on." If this happens and Vick fails, look at the USFL taking their first strike............and Vick his 3rd.

CloakNNNdagger
06-12-2009, 02:59 PM
You know, I have been reminiscing the past. I remember when Casserly, Capers and fans were totally devastated when Vick decided to come out early so that he would avoid starting his career on the expansion team in Houston. Vick vs. Carr. Either way, a formula for extreme emotional trauma. Either way a Casserlesque-like outcome. With all the things we now complain about, we have to keep reminding ourselves of the blessings of being Casserley, Carr, and Vick FREE.

Texecutioner
06-12-2009, 03:06 PM
Well, he is still under suspension by the NFL, but he has been released by the Falcons after they were unable to trade him. Surely the NFL will release him from suspension at some point. But will it be prior to training camp this year?

I cannot imagine that the Texans will look at him. But maybe someone around here thinks otherwise. If not the Falcons or the Texans, then where does could he go? And, after all this time off, can he even play anymore?

Dallas Cowboys would be my first guess.

2nd would either be the Raiders or the Bengals.

I could see Jerry thinking that Vick could be a sweet project though where he could take the credit for helping him turn around and get his career back on track.

Texecutioner
06-12-2009, 03:06 PM
You know, I have been reminiscing the past. I remember when Casserly, Capers and fans were totally devastated when Vick decided to come out early so that he would avoid starting his career on the expansion team in Houston. Vick vs. Carr. Either way, a formula for extreme emotional trauma. Either way a Casserlesque-like outcome. With all the things we now complain about, we have to keep reminding ourselves of the blessings of being Casserley, Carr, and Vick FREE.

Right on brother!:texflag:

nunusguy
07-20-2009, 10:23 AM
HAMPTON, Va. — Suspended NFL star Michael Vick’s federal dogfighting sentence ended Monday, freeing him to lobby for a return to the field.


Vick’s attorney Lawrence Woodward told The Associated Press outside Vick’s suburban Virginia home that the former Atlanta Falcons quarterback had been released from federal custody as scheduled. That means Vick no longer has to wear the electronic monitor he’s had while under home confinement for the last two months of his 23-month sentence.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6537597.html
************************************************** *
Here's hoping the Commish gives him the OK to play in the NFL again because
MV has already been persecuted far too much.

Blake
07-23-2009, 12:38 PM
Personally I think Mike Vick should be allowed back in the NFL either this year, or next year. I believe that he has paid his debt to society, and all you can do is hope that he doesnt make the same mistake twice, while helping bring dog fighting to an end.

CloakNNNdagger
07-23-2009, 05:39 PM
Now that the UFL has all but declared themselves an NFL "farm league," it will be more likely that Vick will be allowed to transition and "prove" himself within the UFL. (There will be loosened rules on the UFL releasing players to the NFL)

Report: Vick, Goodell conduct meeting in New Jersey (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/07/23/vick-goodell-meet-in-new-jersey/)

Former Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick met with NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell on Wednesday afternoon in Allendale, N.J., according to Don Banks of SI.com.

Per the report, the meeting was held at Buckley Peterson Global Inc, a security firm.

The meeting wrapped up around 4 p.m. EST when Vick and Goodell were both seen leaving the office, Banks reported.

The report didn't indicate what Vick's outlook for potential reinstatement is at this time.

"We've been consistent about that throughout this process," NFL spokesman Greg Aiello told SI.com while not confirming or denying that the meeting took place. "We're not responding to any of the questions surrounding the review. Once a decision is made by the commissioner, then we'll make a statement.''

Per the report, Goodell and Vick both appeared "rather somber," when departing the meeting, according to an "eyewitness."

Vick reportedly had a "huge entourage" with him.

Earlier today, former Falcons teammate Joe Horn expressed hope that Vick will be reinstated.

"Goodell is a hard, tough commissioner, and he should be," Horn told PFT. "He's taking a stance in the NFL that I think everybody respects. I hope the meeting will go well. I hope he'll see that Mike is sincere. I think he'll give him that second chance."

CloakNNNdagger
07-23-2009, 07:51 PM
Sal Paolantonio and Chris Mortensen of ESPN are now reporting that Vick will be conditionally reinstated early next week, (Sal Paolantonio and Chris Mortensen of ESPN are now reporting that Vick will be conditionally reinstated early next week, and he'll then be suspended four additional games.) and he'll then be suspended four additional games.

Per the report, Goodell also is expected to warn Vick that any future problems will result in additional punishment. (We were going to say that Vick will be on a "tight leash," but we thought better of it. Oops.)

This means that Vick will be permitted to sign with a new team and participate in training camp and the preseason before sitting out the first quarter of the campaign.

Though it's not a home run for Vick, it's great news. Given his crimes and the fact that he previously lied to Commissioner Roger Goodell's face (and the rest of his body), Vick easily could have been suspended for most if not all of the 2009 season.

But public opinion has generally favored the notion that Vick should receive a second chance. The fact that an upstart pro football league would have been waiting with open arms to sign Vick likely didn't hurt matters, either.

Atlanta Journal Constitution (http://www.ajc.com/sports/report-goodell-to-allow-vick-to-sign-with-team-99302.html?cxntlid=brkng_nws_bnr)

Koolaid Time
07-23-2009, 08:57 PM
Can you say "trainwreck"? If confirmed, what a F'ing dope!

This won't help Dog-Boy's hopes for reinstatement.

Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:30 am EDT

Report: Vick spent his first night of freedom at a strip club

By MJD

Carrying out a time-honored tradition among ex-cons on their first day of freedom, Michael Vick reportedly spent his first evening as a free man knee-deep in strippers, alongside pal Allen Iverson.

The report comes from The Big Lead, who called the strip club and spoke to a DJ at a spot called Atlantis in Virginia Beach. From TBL:

After getting a tip from a reader Wednesday, and seeing this post at YBF saying the same thing, we called the club half a dozen times until we were able to get someone on the phone tonight around 10:15 pm. “Monday’s are crazy here, it’s amateur night, and it’s packed,” said the DJ, who did not to be quoted. He checked with a few of the dancers about whether or not Vick and Iverson were present Monday and said, “yup, both of them were here. It’s the first place I’d want to go as a free man, too.”

If true, this isn't something to be held against Vick. I know it doesn't sound good, and I'll grant you, other than an actual dogfight, a strip club's probably the easiest place for a recently-released guy to get in trouble.

But on the other hand, you know ... there are unclothed women in there. In the pen, it's nothing but the fellas. The day that a man who was locked up for two years cannot go out and pay to see some lady parts is the day I no longer want to call myself an American.

Going to a strip club is not illegal. It doesn't make anyone a bad person. Most people are not Pacman Jones, and can go to a strip club without having to seek legal counsel the next morning.

Most importantly, going to a strip club has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not Michael Vick(notes) is truly remorseful about what he did. If Roger Goodell were to hold this against him, in my opinion, it would make Goodell not only unreasonable and unnecessarily hard on Vick, but also in violation of all sorts of man codes.

Update: Michael Vick has denied the report, saying he was out of town and that a strip club was "the last place on my mind".

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Report-Vick-spent-his-first-night-of-freedom-at?urn=nfl,178262

HOU-TEX
07-27-2009, 02:56 PM
Vick has been conditionally reinstated. Now, who's going to be the bonehead to sign him?

Vick can immediately participate in preseason practices, workouts and meetings and can play in the final two preseason games — if he can find a team that will sign him. A number of teams have already said they would not.

Once the season begins, Vick may participate in all team activities except games, and Goodell said he would consider Vick for full reinstatement by Week 6 (Oct. 18-19).

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6549389.html

gary
07-27-2009, 03:02 PM
I hear some are upset about this I'm not because I know if he gets in trouble again he'll probably be out period.

Drew_Smoke
07-27-2009, 03:40 PM
The Rams! They need him.....

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4359354

rmartin65
07-27-2009, 03:41 PM
This was the right thing to do. Think about it. Stallworth kills a guy. Drunk driving, runs him over dead. He received a four game suspension.

Vick led to dogs dying. Yes, its despicable, but we cant value their lives more than humans. He already served two seasons. He should be free to play.

That said, he is a terrible quarterback. Only a team that wants a wildcat player that will bring a major media frenzy will want him. Or a team can try to turn him into a slot receiver, much like the Steelers did with Randle El.

gary
07-27-2009, 03:50 PM
Vick will be on very short rope.

GuerillaBlack
07-27-2009, 03:52 PM
I'm glad Vick has been reinstated. Man has served his time. Now go play football.

Txn_in_Oki
07-27-2009, 04:00 PM
I'm no Vick fan but he served his time. Another 4 game suspension really wouldn't do much much more. I'm just really interested to see what team takes the chance and deals with the media **** storm that follows.

Texan_Bill
07-27-2009, 04:00 PM
I agree that he paid his debt (albeit too light of a debt imo - but that's another subject). I also agree that its okay for him to be reinstated, but he really needs to watch his butt, because the "parole" system seems like its set up for the parolee to fail (as witnessed of someone I know).

GuerillaBlack
07-27-2009, 04:05 PM
If we had not already signed two backups, I would not have minded Vick as a backup for us. I think he goes to the Cowboys or New England as a backup. In other words, I have no idea.

Wolf
07-27-2009, 04:26 PM
Irony would be if Cleveland signed him

:whistle:

CloakNNNdagger
07-27-2009, 04:29 PM
When a physician is convicted of a felony, his medical license is revoked. When he is released from jail, no one takes away his right to make a living. But seldom will he ever be allowed to recover his medical license in order to practice medicine again...........maybe football, though.

gary
07-27-2009, 04:37 PM
When a physician is convicted of a felony, his medical license is revoked. When he is released from jail, no one takes away his right to make a living. But seldom will he ever be allowed to recover his medical license in order to practice medicine again...........maybe football, though.That is true and something I would have never thought about.

Hervoyel
07-27-2009, 08:21 PM
I have been thinking about Vick's reinstatement all day and the conditions that have been placed on him and I have come around to the idea that I wish the Texans would think a little bit outside the box on this.

Yes, that means I am now in favor of the team approaching him and asking him if he'd be interested in a low risk, short term, "win-win" type of contract that could both help his image, his game, and his ability to earn again the type of fat contract he would like to get back to and needs in order to get out of debt.

Nobody thinks Vick is going to play QB in 2009. That is a simple fact.

Everyone thinks Vick needs to go to "the right situation".

The entire universe knows the Houston Texans to be an organization of do-gooding milkshake drinkers who love Jesus, donate their time to the community, and generally walk the line in all things. I'm only kind of mocking that image because it's nice to know we don't have a lot of ticking time bombs on our roster like some teams.

So why do I want to add Michael Vick to that dream scenario?

The thing is we are "the right situation" for Vick. Not as anything more than an emergency QB of course or a Wildcat QB but that's not the point here. The point is this:

We sign Vick for a very reasonable contract for a year with an option for a second. The option is only there because we expect to be able to trade Vick in 2010 for a pick or two. In 2009 Vick goes to camp with us as QB4 "Slash" and we find out what we have here. Is he still the threat on the ground he used to be? Can Gary Kubiak work with him and help him become a more complete QB? Can he still make the team and can he be the kind of productive citizen the NFL demands he become if he's going to play?

Nobody is going to give this man a pile of money after what he did without some evidence that he's sincere. What he needs is the Bob McNair stamp of moral approval and the Gary Kubiak "coach-em-up" QB program.

Make no mistake. First he has to still be who we all assume he still is. At the very least he needs to be a reasonable facsimilie of Michael Vick. Assuming that is the case then here we go.

In his first year here he makes the team as QB3/RB4. We're working on Rex Grossman as QB3 right now. I'd say it's a wash and if Vick can't move him out of the way then the experiment ends right there. No big deal and on our way we go.

During the season Kubiak works with him on his QB skills and we get him into games as possible. We get him work as often as possible. We might be able to move him for a pick by the trade deadline if things go perfectly. If we can't then we see if there's any interest after the season. If the experiment is going well then we consider picking up the option year to bring him back and try again the next year. The basis for wanting to pick him up is entirely to rebuild him. Kubiak has a project QB in camp every single year. It's either an undrafted free agent or a career backup or as we see this year with Grossman a scrap-heap project. Sage Rosenfels could have gotten us a 3rd round pick if we'd been smart enough to grab it when it was offered. If Vick is looking good after a season with us and stays on track what do you think he'd bring?

He needs this and we could definitely use another 1 or 2 in an upcoming draft.

I've come around to thinking this would be a very good idea with minimal risk. That's why I don't think it would ever occur to our team to even ask about it.

Koolaid Time
07-27-2009, 08:38 PM
Vick will be on very short LEASH.


Fixed it for ya!

CloakNNNdagger
07-27-2009, 09:05 PM
With all due respect, I would rather be eating popcorn watching the circus created by Vick playing on ANOTHER team than popping Zantac and washing it down with Maalox watching the same occuring in Houston.


http://www.drjohnhong.com/images/photos/story_photos/nausea.jpg

Hervoyel
07-27-2009, 09:22 PM
I understand and agree that a certain degree of "circus" is going to be inevitable with the signing of Vick. I think there are a handful of teams where this would be relatively minimal and the Texans are among them. There aren't too many teams out there that are more low-key than Houston. Players don't say much of anything without a green light from the front office around here (for the most part).

I just think we're one of the places who could handle the initial storm and who could profit by rehabbing this guy and moving him later. Like I said though, this is so far beyond our owners ability to imagine that we'd never even consider it. To be honest I wonder if anyone will.

Grams
07-27-2009, 10:03 PM
No.

Did I mention NO?

Let him take his circus somewhere else. We do not need to waste time with a mediocre quarterback.

Yes he can throw the ball downfeild with the flick of his wrist, but only if the receiver is all alone and can run to where he threw it.

Let Kubes spend his time with the QB's we already have.

Goldensilence
07-28-2009, 02:32 AM
Biggest problem I have with that scenario Herv is who do we cut to make Roster space for Vick as our fourth qb? I don't think Vick has the skills to replace Grossman as our third QB. I think this very well might be the first year where we will be pushing someone off the team who can make someone else's roster. Meaning, the last few roster spots will be a battle.

I jsut don't see him having a whole lot of value to anyone at the moment or even at the NFL trade deadline, which doesn't often see a lot of transactions. He got a big break in getting reinstated reguardless of the suspension, he's going to have a hard time convincing a team he can bring something substanial to their roster that will offset the circus that will follow.

Koolaid Time
07-28-2009, 06:30 AM
With all due respect, I would rather be eating popcorn watching the circus created by Vick playing on ANOTHER team than popping Zantac and washing it down with Maalox watching the same occuring in Houston.

Agree. Besides Mike Vick has "Raiders" written all over him. Al Davis is so old and senile that he doesn't give a damn what the media thinks or if PETA has 1000 protesters outside the Stadium.

Kaiser Toro
07-28-2009, 08:24 AM
If I was Vick's agent the last place I would have him go is the Raiders due to image and the fact that PETA has a militia on the other side of the Bay.

StarStruck
07-28-2009, 11:20 AM
:)If I was Vick's agent the last place I would have him go is the Raiders due to image and the fact that PETA has a militia on the other side of the Bay.

Right! On the OTHER side of the Bay. If the Oakland side of the Bay doesn't want the SF side of the Bay there or heckling the quarterback, I would venture to say the protesters would exercise extreme caution.:thinking:

Hervoyel
07-28-2009, 12:50 PM
Biggest problem I have with that scenario Herv is who do we cut to make Roster space for Vick as our fourth qb? I don't think Vick has the skills to replace Grossman as our third QB. I think this very well might be the first year where we will be pushing someone off the team who can make someone else's roster. Meaning, the last few roster spots will be a battle.

I jsut don't see him having a whole lot of value to anyone at the moment or even at the NFL trade deadline, which doesn't often see a lot of transactions. He got a big break in getting reinstated reguardless of the suspension, he's going to have a hard time convincing a team he can bring something substanial to their roster that will offset the circus that will follow.

Like I said if he can't beat Grossman out for the third spot then the experiment ends right there. No hard feelings and good luck Michael.

If we carry 3 QB's (and I expect we will) then I'd basically invite him to compete for that third QB spot. That wasn't so hard now was it?

Granted right now nobody is beating down Michael Vick's door and that's also one of the main reasons his price stays nice and low. He's just trying to make a team and make himself a better person in the process. Get him in a couple of games in the Wildcat and give us just one incredible play (assuming of course that there's still something in there) and the suitors will appear. I don't have any doubt about that.

I'm for making the Texans better through any reasonable means and something like I described above is infinitely reasonable. We use him, he uses us, both parties win if all goes as planned. What's the potential risk? Where's the enormous downside? What's the point of having a team of angels led by a saint of an owner if he can't keep the ship righted while holding out a hand to help rehabilitate a great athelete who has stumbled? I bet there's not another owner in the NFL who could walk out in front of a podium and sell "We want to help Michael Vick return to being the man he was supposed to be while helping our team get better" like Bob McNair could.

If Al Davis does this then everyone has the exact same response. "Figures he'd end up in Oakland with all the other turds". If Jerry Jones does this then everyone knows that he's just the newest member of Jerry's circus and assumes he's going to pull a Pacman.

If Bob McNair does it the way he does everything else then he's a class act trying to reach a troubled young man before it's too late. (cue choir singing).

Where his athletic ability is concerned people have always been more than ready to believe that Vick was capable of amazing things. One or two plays showing showing the world that he still has the speed and instincts that they all covet and other GM's will start believing again. I doubt that Michael Vick will ever be more motivated to change than he is right now.

Hooston Texan
07-28-2009, 01:16 PM
I understand and agree that a certain degree of "circus" is going to be inevitable with the signing of Vick. I think there are a handful of teams where this would be relatively minimal and the Texans are among them. There aren't too many teams out there that are more low-key than Houston. Players don't say much of anything without a green light from the front office around here (for the most part).

I just think we're one of the places who could handle the initial storm and who could profit by rehabbing this guy and moving him later. Like I said though, this is so far beyond our owners ability to imagine that we'd never even consider it. To be honest I wonder if anyone will.

The only way I'd support bringing in Vick is if we could somehow transplant Vick's athleticism and pure arm-strength into Schaub's body, thereby creating the best QB who ever lived. I know the Texas Medical Center is doing some pretty cutting-edge stuff, but I'm thinking we're a ways away from that.

While Kubiak has certainly mentored QBs with mobility--Elway and Plummer--Vick is completely different from anything he's worked with before. Not saying Kubes couldn't spruce him up for resale, but Vick needs a ton of work. His grasp of the position when he was playing was pretty tenuous, and he's spent the last two years in the clink. He would basically be a full-time project for Kubiak, and we have better things for him to do than a high-end QB flip.

Even if Kubiak does get him back to playing-caliber, he makes little sense as a backup for us. We'd basically have to run two completely-different offenses: one for Schaub/Orlovsky and one for Vick.

I don't begrudge Vick getting another chance. I also agree that Houston would be a good spot for him: far away from the dead-end "friends" that got him into so much trouble, working with an acknowledged QB guru and with a team that demands personal discipline from its players. It's just not the right move for us.

ubecool454
07-28-2009, 02:55 PM
When a physician is convicted of a felony, his medical license is revoked. When he is released from jail, no one takes away his right to make a living. But seldom will he ever be allowed to recover his medical license in order to practice medicine again...........maybe football, though.

Your comparing apples to oranges....only similarity is that they are both fruits. WELCOME BACK VICK!:kingkong::splits:

CloakNNNdagger
07-28-2009, 04:57 PM
Your comparing apples to oranges....only similarity is that they are both fruits. WELCOME BACK VICK!:kingkong::splits:

If You Take Off the

http://www.fotosearch.com/bthumb/ARP/ARP116/Blinders.jpg

You Might Just Possibly Get the

http://www.armypictorialcenter.com/The_Big_Picture_2.JPG

Mr teX
07-28-2009, 05:05 PM
Houston isn't a good destination for him. He needs to go to a team with a strong locker room & it's only 3 of those in the league (NE, Baltimore and Pitt). i'd absolutely hate to see Belichick & NE pick him up for the minimum just so they can add a wildcat package to that already ridiculous offense:mcnugget:.:brickwall:.

The Rams, Broncos & 9er's should all be considering bringing him in for a looksee or at least as a cheap back up option, mainly b/c they won't be competitive this year and they don't really have a qb that's any better than he is at this point.

The bengals, panthers Bucs should also look at him simply b/c palmer can't stay healthy & Delhomme is garbage and all the qb's up in TB amount to nothing. If he can come back even remotely close to what he was he's already better than anyone available. The Panther's in particular with that run game & stout defense are a real good destination for him b/c the fans are still in disbelief that Delhomme was resigned after his horrid playoff performance last year.

Thorn
07-28-2009, 06:10 PM
I don't care if he plays football or not, just hopefully not for the Texans. I don't like him because he fought dogs, and I'll never like him because of that, so as long as he's on another team for me to boo, I'm good with it. Let him play football if he can, you can bet on the fact there are far worse folks already in the NFL than Vick, so what's the point?

CloakNNNdagger
07-30-2009, 10:01 PM
Just another reason to make a team think twice.

League clarifies Vick's in-season status (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/07/30/league-clarifies-vicks-in-season-status/)


Quarterback Mike Vick, as we all know by now, has been conditionally reinstated.

But his status when the regular season begins (if he's on a team by then) had been unclear.

He'll be permitted to do everything but play in games, until Commissioner Roger Goodell clears Vick to do so. Previously, however, the question of whether he'd count toward the 53-man roster wasn't known.

According to Jason La Canfora of NFL Network, the league sent a memo to all teams explaining Vick's status once the regular season begins.

He will count toward the 53-man roster if he participates in practice. Alternatively, he won't count against the 53-man roster if his team holds him out of practice, but otherwise permits him to attend meetings and engage in other activities.

Before any of that is relevant, however, Vick needs to find a team. For now, it's now clear when or if he will.

awtysst
07-30-2009, 11:49 PM
Just another reason to make a team think twice.

Ok, so basically he would be on the roster and occupy a roster spot but cannot play. I mean, a team HAS to have him practice or he will not be all that useful upon his return.

I think he may need to go to the USFL to knock off some rust before coming back to the NFL for the playoff push in November.

CloakNNNdagger
07-31-2009, 01:26 PM
Certainly, not the "Low risk High benefit" situation that an NFL team considering Vick might have hoped for.

Maddict5
08-13-2009, 05:50 PM
got to break it :)

PapaL
08-13-2009, 05:52 PM
Read the rumor on FB earlier today.

Showtime100
08-13-2009, 05:53 PM
got to break it :)

Kidding? Jerry Jones must be fuming.

PapaL
08-13-2009, 05:54 PM
Current rumor is Panthers:

http://news.lalate.com/2009/08/13/michael-vick-to-buffalo-bills/

GuerillaBlack
08-13-2009, 06:10 PM
Just a rumor...

TEXANS84
08-13-2009, 06:11 PM
With no credibility, this falls back to the Vick files....

Specnatz
08-13-2009, 06:14 PM
got to break it :)


Then again you could be wrong .....


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/08/13/bills-reiterate-no-interest-in-vick-at-this-time/

WWJD
08-13-2009, 06:47 PM
Are teams working him out? Can he even play anymore?

He's been gone a long time..he's what 29?

Drew_Smoke
08-13-2009, 07:43 PM
He is an Eagle...wow

CloakNNNdagger
08-13-2009, 07:54 PM
Report: Michael Vick to Eagles
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on August 13, 2009 8:32 PM ET
The speculation is over.

ESPN's Chris Mortensen reported Thursday night on air that Michael Vick has signed a two-year deal with the Philadelphia Eagles.

To paraphrase the fearless leader of PFT: Wow.

The deal was first reported, as best we can tell, by Dan Sileo of WDAE in Tampa. Buzz had been building about a possible deal with the Eagles for about an hour all over the internet before Mort came on the hour.

The destination is surprising on a number of levels.

First, there were multiple media reports that the Eagles weren't interested, including one by Mort himself. Our own Tom Curran had an Eagles source tell him as recently as Tuesday that the team wasn't interested in Vick.

But as Mr. Florio pointed out numerous times, Philadelphia's statements and whispers before the Vick signing are the least of their concerns now.

LINK (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/08/13/report-michael-vick-to-eagles/)

Texan_Bill
08-25-2009, 09:16 AM
Mike, what are you thinking??



By USAToday Sports

Tony Dungy scolds Michael Vick for public alcohol consumption


Michael Vick's mentor, Tony Dungy, scolded the Eagles quarterback for drinking in public after the New York Post revealed he was drinking Grey Goose and pineapple juice in a Philadelphia airport bar.

"Michael, you can't do that," Dungy told Vick, via SI.com's Peter King.

Eagles spokesman Derek Boyko told the Philadelphia Inquirer that drinking alcohol is "not in conflict with terms of (Vick's) probation or reinstatement with the NFL."


More:
Tony Dungy scolds Michael Vick for public alcohol consumption (http://blogs.usatoday.com/thehuddle/2009/08/tony-dungy-scolds-michael-vick-for-public-alcohol-consumption.html)

Vinny
08-25-2009, 09:20 AM
Mike, what are you thinking??
I think I can channel the thoughts now....

"After I drinks this, I'ma gonna find me some roosters, hell, people eat chickinz, we'll just fry em up after we're done....just don't feed the bones to the dog. You know that's bad for them".

http://images.absoluteastronomy.com/images/encyclopediaimages/c/ca/carnac.jpg

HoustonFrog
08-25-2009, 09:25 AM
After being in the pen I don't mind if the guy wants a cold one at home..but Mike, not in public at this time. Just go home, relax and have a drink around the pool while thanking the Lord you are getting paid again.

Specnatz
08-25-2009, 09:47 AM
I think I can channel the thoughts now....

"After I drinks this, I'ma gonna find me some roosters, hell, people eat chickinz, we'll just fry em up after we're done....just don't feed the bones to the dog. You know that's bad for them".

http://images.absoluteastronomy.com/images/encyclopediaimages/c/ca/carnac.jpg

The major problem is that he was drinking Grey Goose and pineapple juice , which is called a ......

Greyhound

4Texans
08-26-2009, 03:30 PM
Matt Schaub talks about Vick during his time with the Falcons.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/danpatrick/blog/75141/index.html

Houston Texans quarterback Matt Schaub joined the show to discuss his relationship with Michael Vick and more.

Schaub said that he got along well with Vick in Atlanta. "It was a good relationship," Schaub said. "We really worked well together getting ready for games. ... He's such a great guy."

Dan asked Schaub if recent reports that Vick didn't work hard.

"There were definitely signs of that," Schaub said. "He's such a phenomenal athlete. No matter what happened on the field, he could always overcome it with his athleticism. That was always his fall-back."

Dan asked if that bothered Schaub when he was in Atlanta.

"Definitely," Schaub said. "It got to that point, in my second or third year, where guys took more notice of it. We were in a position to have a really successful season."

Schaub said that he wanted to say something as early as his first season, but at first, couldn't.

"When I was a rookie, I wasn't going to say anything," Schaub said. "I'm a rookie, what do I know?"

Later, Schaub said he tried to encourage Vick to stay a bit longer at practice and in the video room. But it didn't necessarily work. "You can only say so much to someone until a light clicks in their brain," Schaub said.

Schaub also commented on his former teammate Sage Rosenfels. Schaub said that Rosenfels will handle the Brett Favre situation very well in Minnesota.

Dan B.
08-26-2009, 03:31 PM
The major problem is that he was drinking Grey Goose and pineapple juice , which is called a ......

Greyhound

Unfortunately a greyhound involves vodka and grapefruit juice. Add a salted rim and it's a Salty Dog. Funny if true though.

edit: from a quick google it doesn't appear that vodka+pineapple has a name yet. I humbly nominate the "Ron Mexico" for the new name.

Other ideas:

The Prison ***** (C'Mon it is a chick drink).
The Pit Bull
The Canine Killer

any others?

Texan_Bill
08-26-2009, 04:05 PM
Unfortunately a greyhound involves vodka and grapefruit juice. Add a salted rim and it's a Salty Dog. Funny if true though.

edit: from a quick google it doesn't appear that vodka+pineapple has a name yet. I humbly nominate the "Ron Mexico" for the new name.

Other ideas:

The Prison ***** (C'Mon it is a chick drink).
The Pit Bull
The Canine Killer

any others?

the "Ookie Dokie"

the "Dawg Tamer"

??

Specnatz
08-26-2009, 04:28 PM
Unfortunately a greyhound involves vodka and grapefruit juice. Add a salted rim and it's a Salty Dog. Funny if true though.

edit: from a quick google it doesn't appear that vodka+pineapple has a name yet. I humbly nominate the "Ron Mexico" for the new name.

Other ideas:

The Prison ***** (C'Mon it is a chick drink).
The Pit Bull
The Canine Killer

any others?

What the hell do I know I am a cheap drunk I drink beer. I heard several people when talking about this call it a greyhound.

mattieuk
08-26-2009, 11:33 PM
Unfortunately a greyhound involves vodka and grapefruit juice. Add a salted rim and it's a Salty Dog. Funny if true though.

edit: from a quick google it doesn't appear that vodka+pineapple has a name yet. I humbly nominate the "Ron Mexico" for the new name.

Other ideas:

The Prison ***** (C'Mon it is a chick drink).
The Pit Bull
The Canine Killer

any others?

We're getting a little off topic here....buuuuut.

Grey Goose is such a smooth Vodka, to ruin it with pineapple juice is just sacrilege...it's just not needed, and shouldn't really be mixed with anything really.

As for jokey nicknames for a vodka-pineapple mix, I've no material there...

Dan B.
08-27-2009, 12:11 AM
We're getting a little off topic here....buuuuut.

Grey Goose is such a smooth Vodka, to ruin it with pineapple juice is just sacrilege...it's just not needed, and shouldn't really be mixed with anything really.

As for jokey nicknames for a vodka-pineapple mix, I've no material there...

How's this for OT:

I completely agree that pineapple juice ruins a good vodka. I like Grey Goose, but there's several others I also find delicious. I love Tito's (a Texas vodka). Russian Standard might be the smoothest vodka I've ever tried and it's usually pretty cheap, as is Monopolowa (the best vodka for your money you can get here IMO). Finlandia is also good, and Ciroc or Roth are great. They are made from grapes and are much more lush and full on the tongue.

nunusguy
10-01-2009, 08:22 AM
NEW YORK -- Michael Vick is back with Nike two years after the company severed ties over the quarterback's involvement in a dogfighting ring.
**
To Carter, Nike likely made a calculated business decision that the benefit of sales tied to Vick outweighed any potential public outrage.
Vick must still have some selling power if the company is getting behind him, he said. "Nobody understands their consumer and has their finger on the pulse of their consumer like Nike does."
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4520896

Kaiser Toro
10-01-2009, 08:27 AM
Probably will do a PSA campaign(s). Until he actually does something on the field I do not see this being a lucrative deal.

Grams
10-01-2009, 08:45 AM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/10/01/nike-says-theres-no-agreement-with-vick/

According to Nike there is no deal - just providing him some shoes.

Texan_Bill
10-01-2009, 08:47 AM
Nike is a lot smarter than me, but I can't help but think that they will recieve some backlash for this.

HOU-TEX
10-01-2009, 09:56 AM
Nice to see this thread back. :rolleyes:

Texan_Bill
10-01-2009, 10:11 AM
Nice to see this thread back. :rolleyes:

Just for you buddy!!! :polevault:

Wolf
02-10-2010, 05:32 PM
Vick admits to laziness and complacency in Atlanta
There are a lot of Atlanta Falcons fans who still love Michael Vick(notes), and will always love Michael Vick. Why this is so, I'm not entirely sure, because it seems like with each passing day, Michael Vick makes a new effort to let the people at Atlanta know that he played them for chumps, every single step of the way.

First, while he was supposed to be saving the franchise and leading them to the promised land, he was also busy unleashing a holy war on the puppies of the area.

That's a crime, of course, and it cost him a good portion of his football career and ended his stay with the Falcons. If you want to stick by Vick's side through that, that's fine. I get it. He's a man, he made a mistake, and he deserves forgiveness. As long as he's dedicated to the home team, we can forgive a human foible and move on, right?

Well, what if, at the same time, he didn't give a damn about the home team, either?

Vick told 790 AM The Zone in Atlanta that while he played for the Falcons, he wasn't giving 100%. Now, I'm sure a lot of people already had a hunch that Vick didn't get the most out of his abilities, but hearing him admit is another thing. Vick openly admits that he wasn't anywhere near the quarterback he should have been. From AJC.com:

"There was a lot more I could have done off the field and in the film room that could have elevated my game to a different level," Vick said. "I was complacent at the time, somewhat lazy, and I settled for mediocrity. I thought what I was doing was enough."

[...]

"Just imagine what I could have been doing if I really would have been applying myself. That's a regret I have."

Now, there are a real crimes, and there are crimes against sports. Obviously, real crimes are worse.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Vick-admits-to-laziness-and-complacency-in-Atlan?urn=nfl,218771

HOU-TEX
02-11-2010, 09:36 AM
Aww, for the love of Pete, Wolf!

Are you going to fire up the Favre thread too? :gun:

:winky:

Red_Zone
02-11-2010, 08:53 PM
I was once a big fan of Vick. His ability and athleticism and quickness was astounding. And then little by little his self confidence began to come over as smugness and his antics off the field began to reveal his true nature as a thug. It then became apparent to all who were paying attention that Vick was phoning it in on the field not giving it his all and yet and still he was the "hope" of the franchise until first the water bottle thing and then shortly thereafter flipping off the fans and then the whole dog thing came out. By then I couldn't stand to look at the guy and I began to root for the Falcons to lose every time they came on the field and usually they didn't disappoint me.

It's been a long healing process and the strong disgust and disapproval I came to feel for Vick turned to apathy and just being glad he's no longer a Falcon. I'll take Ryan any day over vick.

Now I think Vick just wants to put it all out there and admit not only his dog fighting/abuse crimes but make known his overall failure to take a great God given talent and do something productive with it and instead using all his celebrity athlete capital for selfish personal gain and squandering every iota of good will he had built up in this community. It's a part of the "cleansing" he must go through as a person first and as an athlete and role model for youth especially young blacks who can profit from his example and may choose a different path based on his experiences.

I think Mike is sincere and I wish him well in his endeavors whether he stays with Filthydelphia or goes elsewhere. It's been a learning experience for all.

SheTexan
02-14-2010, 11:37 PM
I look forward to the day Michael Vick disappears from the NFL FOREVER!!!

StarStruck
02-15-2010, 12:31 AM
I was once a big fan of Vick. His ability and athleticism and quickness was astounding. And then little by little his self confidence began to come over as smugness and his antics off the field began to reveal his true nature as a thug. It then became apparent to all who were paying attention that Vick was phoning it in on the field not giving it his all and yet and still he was the "hope" of the franchise until first the water bottle thing and then shortly thereafter flipping off the fans and then the whole dog thing came out. By then I couldn't stand to look at the guy and I began to root for the Falcons to lose every time they came on the field and usually they didn't disappoint me.

It's been a long healing process and the strong disgust and disapproval I came to feel for Vick turned to apathy and just being glad he's no longer a Falcon. I'll take Ryan any day over vick.

Now I think Vick just wants to put it all out there and admit not only his dog fighting/abuse crimes but make known his overall failure to take a great God given talent and do something productive with it and instead using all his celebrity athlete capital for selfish personal gain and squandering every iota of good will he had built up in this community. It's a part of the "cleansing" he must go through as a person first and as an athlete and role model for youth especially young blacks who can profit from his example and may choose a different path based on his experiences.

I think Mike is sincere and I wish him well in his endeavors whether he stays with Filthydelphia or goes elsewhere. It's been a learning experience for all.

I have been watching the Vick Project the last couple of weeks, and I believe that he is sincere in repentance for his past behavior, rebuilding his life and taking advantage, as he says, his last chance for an opportunity to play in the NFL. He has admitted to things that most don't even in the wake of what he has lost in the process, and IMO, that he has changed. First, in acknowledging that fighting animals for sport even though he had been exposed since a young child, was wrong and he regrets the active role he took. He could have easily blamed it on his cousins and friends.

Also, his acknowledgement of not been commited to his team as far as practice and being there for the over and beyond. If he had not been broken from initial arrogance, he could never admit fault as the team leader for not fulfilling that role.

I, too wish him well in his attempt to show that he is a changed individual first, and secondly making the most of his second chance opportunity in his career.

After saying all of this, I still don't appreciate the TD he passed in the Cowboys/Eagles game, but outside of playing us, good luck and I'm pulling for him to succeed.

WWJD
02-15-2010, 09:09 AM
I'm torn about Vick. On the one hand I cannot believe one person could be so cruel to hurt defenseless creatures but on the other he did his time and it's time to move pass all that.

I guess he's done with the Eagles. Will be conversation worthy to see who wants him.

infantrycak
06-25-2010, 12:13 PM
From PFT.com

Eagles quarterback Mike Vick, who remains on federal probation following a two-year prison term for dogfighting, celebrated his 30th birthday with a party at a Virginia Beach club. And, apparently, one of the games was pin the tail on the donkey.

With bullets.

A shooting reportedly occurred as the club was closing. A fight broke out, and then someone whipped out the ultimate peacemaker.

One man was shot, per WTKR, which also cites unnamed sources in reporting that the shooting occurred at the party. The victim initially refused treatment but then went to a local hospital with non-life-threatening injuries.

Really, really needs to consider who he hangs out with.

MightyTExan
06-25-2010, 12:50 PM
More from PFT
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/category/rumor-mill/

"The news that a man was shot at a 30th birthday party for Eagles quarterback Michael Vick has taken a twist, with reports that Quanis Phillips, one of the co-defendants in the infamous dog fighting case that landed Vick in prison, was the victim in the shooting, and that he was shot after a confrontation with Vick."

jgl35
06-25-2010, 01:43 PM
There have been talk up here in Philly that the Eagles would really like to bring back Jeff Garcia. to back up Kolb. This might move matters along.

Koolaid Time
06-25-2010, 09:20 PM
From PFT.com



Really, really needs to consider who he hangs out with.

I'm sure the conditions of his Federal Probation prevent him from hanging out with his former Co-Defendants, such as the guy who was shot outside the Club. His conditions might prohibit him from hanging out in a bar period.

edo783
06-25-2010, 11:03 PM
Not likely to be any sort of positive for Vick, whether he had ANYTHING to do with anything at it.

painekiller
06-25-2010, 11:16 PM
If the reports are true then Roger Goodell will be have a short talk and then passing out a long good bye to Vick.

Goldensilence
06-26-2010, 12:32 AM
What a ****ing *****.

Kulluminatii
06-26-2010, 02:49 AM
What a ****ing *****.

I kinda figured out the first word that was bleeped out...having trouble figuring out the second...:kitten:

infantrycak
06-26-2010, 09:10 AM
I'm sure the conditions of his Federal Probation prevent him from hanging out with his former Co-Defendants, such as the guy who was shot outside the Club. His conditions might prohibit him from hanging out in a bar period.

Most definitely a condition of his parole was to stay away from known felons. Obviously a co-defendant is a known felon. He could go back to jail over this although I doubt that happens.

I don't understand the Eagles' charity with this guy. Last year he was the highest paid 3rd string QB in the league by far, probably the highest paid non-starting QB in the league. Why isn't he playing for vet minimum?

drs23
06-26-2010, 09:40 AM
I'm sure the conditions of his Federal Probation prevent him from hanging out with his former Co-Defendants, such as the guy who was shot outside the Club. His conditions might prohibit him from hanging out in a bar period.

That thought crossed my mind as well. That's a standard clause and usually not only co-defendants, but anyone who is a known felon. At least that's a stipulation in a person that I know closely's walking papers.

*edit*: Hadn't read Cak's post which makes mine redundant but emphasises the point. Would seem like Goodell would have to do something here?

CloakNNNdagger
06-27-2010, 12:15 PM
I'm sure the conditions of his Federal Probation prevent him from hanging out with his former Co-Defendants, such as the guy who was shot outside the Club. His conditions might prohibit him from hanging out in a bar period.

Most definitely a condition of his parole was to stay away from known felons. Obviously a co-defendant is a known felon. He could go back to jail over this although I doubt that happens.

I don't understand the Eagles' charity with this guy. Last year he was the highest paid 3rd string QB in the league by far, probably the highest paid non-starting QB in the league. Why isn't he playing for vet minimum?

That thought crossed my mind as well. That's a standard clause and usually not only co-defendants, but anyone who is a known felon. At least that's a stipulation in a person that I know closely's walking papers.

*edit*: Hadn't read Cak's post which makes mine redundant but emphasises the point. Would seem like Goodell would have to do something here?

Vick's guest list calls his judgment into question (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/06/27/vicks-guest-list-calls-his-judgment-into-question/)

It's still not clear whether Michael Vick dog fighting co-defendant Quanis Phillips was an invited guest or a party crasher when he was shot outside Vick's birthday celebration last week. But people who have followed the chronicles of the Vick family will remember the name of one of the guests who definitely was invited: Delicia Cordon.

Cordon, for those who don't remember, was arrested along with Vick's brother, Marcus Vick, in 2008. In that incident, Marcus Vick was arrested for drunk driving and Cordon was charged with being drunk in public. Cordon was described by the Palm Beach Post at the time as "a deadbeat, according to court records [who] has six racy MySpace pages in her name."

Cordon's name appears on the invitation to Vick's party, alongside Redskins cornerback DeAngelo Hall (who says he wasn't there), Olympic 400-meter champion LaShawn Merritt, Colts safety Antoine Bethea, former NBA star Allen Iverson, rapper Pusha-T, a woman named Mia Michelle (who, like Cordon, has plenty of racy photos of her available online) and The De Creme Models.

Vick and Phillips are both forbidden, as a term of their probation, from associating with each other, and that means that unless they just happened to run into each other at the party by pure coincidence, they were violating their probation. When NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell reinstated Vick, he made a specific point of telling Vick to adhere to "limits on who you may associate with."

But even if the birthday party guest list doesn't draw the ire of Vick's probation officer, it still suggests that Vick just doesn't get it. Vick is showing -- at the very least -- poor judgment by publicly announcing that he's partying with a woman who has previously been arrested alongside his brother. (And a woman who seems to have a knack for causing headaches for NFL players -- she also once filed a lawsuit against Dolphins running back Ronnie Brown.)

Vick hosted a football camp last week and reportedly told the children who attended, "Pick and choose your friends carefully. You just can't put yourself in vulnerable situations."

It's long past time for Vick to take his own advice.

CloakNNNdagger
06-27-2010, 12:18 PM
This is an excerpt from an ESPN piece that came out at the time of Vick's release from prison.

A positive drug test or any other violation of probation (failure to report or a late financial report) would result in a quick return to the penitentiary. The probation officer begins the process with a report to the prosecutors in Richmond who investigated and charged Vick. Vick would then be required to appear before Judge Hudson, the judge who forced him to wear a striped inmate uniform at his sentencing and then, relying on a positive drug test (marijuana), sentenced him to a term longer than the prosecutors recommended. It is the last place Vick wants to be. A charge of violating probation is difficult, if not impossible, to defend. Unlike a charge of a crime, the government is not required to prove the charge beyond a reasonable doubt. Prosecutors need to offer only a preponderance of the evidence, a showing that the violation alleged is more probably true than not true. Within the federal court system, violations of federal probation are frequent and costly. More than 40 percent of the prisoners arriving at federal prisons each month have been found guilty of a violation of probation.

GP
06-27-2010, 12:39 PM
Thus why people are quick to say that at some point, a person is just going to always be who they always have been.

Vick is not smart enough to understand long-term consequences. It escapes him, obviously, because he is keeping company with people he should have 500 miles away from him.

The thing here, as well, as that he doesn't want to become a hermit shut-in who keeps his old friends at arm's length. Because he's going to catch heat from family and friends for laying down like a dog and ridding them from his life. So there's a compelling desire to show that old Mike Vick is still a friend even though he can't engage in old ways.

Which then makes it a slippery slope. One false move, one bad snap-decision in a moment of weakness or emotional situation, and he could be done. Again.

This is why I wouldn't have him on my roster if I were owner or GM. The risk/reward ratio is not favorable to me.

CloakNNNdagger
06-27-2010, 12:40 PM
I found a link to the official Michael Vick UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT Eastern District of Virginia Richmond Division Judgment in a Criminal Case and Restitution Judgment (http://www.sanantoniobankruptcyattorneylawyerinformation. com/vick/PleaJudgmentRestAgreement.pdf) entered 09/18/08.

It confirms the terms of probation including, among other things :

the defendant shall not associate with any persons engaged in criminal activity and shall not associate with any person convicted of a felony, unless granted permission to do so by the probation officer

CloakNNNdagger
06-27-2010, 12:46 PM
Another condition of probation from the above link, may prove interesting if Vick is lying about the guest list.:

the defendant shall answer truthfully all inquiries by the probation officer and follow the instructions of the probation officer

Koolaid Time
06-27-2010, 06:12 PM
Another condition of probation from the above link, may prove interesting if Vick is lying about the guest list.:

I bet Vick is in Richmond by Wednesday to pee in a cup and to chat with his Probation/Parole Officer.

CloakNNNdagger
06-30-2010, 06:09 PM
Report: Marcus Vick could be involved in shooting (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/06/30/report-marcus-vick-involved-in-shooting/)


So I went on the Game 102.1 FM in Virginia Beach this afternoon to talk about Michael Vick. Before the segment was over, the hosts (Johnny D. and Bartley Barefoot) proceeded to break some news.

The radio station has sources that Marcus Vick, Michael's brother, was involved in the shooting that took place after Vick's 30th birthday party last Friday morning. It's uncertain what "involved" means here precisely. ESPN's Adam Schefter said earlier on Wednesday that he believes the shooter will turn himself in to authorities soon.

I was surprised initially to hear the Marcus Vick connection, and couched my response with a lot of "ifs" and "possiblys" regarding the situation. Barefoot had no such equivocation, saying his sources were sure Marcus Vick was involved.

We'll continue to track the story, as will a growing number of national sources. ESPN led their NFL coverage today on air and online with Michael Vick's timeline problem.

The longer this story drags on, the more uncomfortable it grows for Vick, not to mention the Eagles and Roger Goodell.

Vick could really use that shooter to come forward quickly.

CloakNNNdagger
06-30-2010, 06:12 PM
Still conflicting reports of whose pie hit whose face.

Witness: Shooting Victim Threw Cake In Michael Vick's Face, Marcus Vick Became 'Very Agitated' (http://www.sbnation.com/2010/6/29/1542963/michael-vick-birthday-party-shooting-quanis-phillips-shot-cake-marcus)

A witness at the shooting incident following Michael Vick's 30th birthday party told the NY Post that it all started when Quanis Phillips, a former co-defendant with Vick in the dog fighting case, showed up to the party.

Phillips, who is not allowed to associate with Vick, mingled as if he were an invited guest to the party until Michael and Marcus Vick spotted him and "told him to get lost", the NY Post reports.

This upset him and he slapped a piece of cake off of a woman's plate hitting Michael in the face with frosting.

"Michael didn't react. I was surprised," a witness at the bash said.

"But Marcus was the one who reacted. He had this I-can't-believe-this-just-happened, we've-been-disrespected look on his face. He was very agitated."

Phillips "left the party screaming" until shots were heard in the parking lot.

The NFL has said they're in the fact-gathering stage while police have said Michael Vick is not a suspect.

Koolaid Time
06-30-2010, 08:47 PM
Still conflicting reports of whose pie hit whose face.

Hey Little Brother, go shoot that punk*** **** *****.

And by the way, isn't Marcus also a convicted Felon and can't legally possess a firearm?

The Guests for this event apparently came from the "Z List"

CloakNNNdagger
06-30-2010, 10:27 PM
Hey Little Brother, go shoot that punk*** **** *****.

And by the way, isn't Marcus also a convicted Felon and can't legally possess a firearm?



The Guests for this event apparently came from the "Z List"

You would think so. Here is his bad conduct/criminal history (http://www.worldlingo.com/ma/enwiki/en/Marcus_Vick#Criminal_charges.2C_conviction_in_Suff olk.2C_Virginia). He was never convicted of a FELONY. The time he was arrested for gun charges, he ended up being found guilty only of BRANDISHING A FIREARM. He's already had a myriad of chances..........looks like it's genetic..............isn't it typical to look up to your big brother?

CloakNNNdagger
07-01-2010, 06:44 AM
Citing new evidence, Virginia Beach police take new look at Vick after shooting (http://www.philly.com/dailynews/sports/20100701_Citing_new_evidence__Virginia_Beach_polic e_take_new_look_at_Vick_after_shooting.html)


"Right now, we don't really have a title for him," police spokesman Adam Bernstein told the Daily News yesterday.

That's a clear departure from Friday's declaration.

Then, police said they had "no interest" in Vick after a shooting occurred outside of a bar/restaurant where Vick, a former Pro Bowl quarterback, had been celebrating his 30th birthday.

How much time elapsed between him leaving and the shooting early Friday morning, as well as more witness evidence, has changed that stance.

Now, investigators won't characterize Vick as a suspect, a person of interest or a witness, Bernstein said. They just want more time.

"We didn't know anything" when they were asked Friday morning about their interest in Vick's involvement in the shooting, Bernstein said.

"Since then, we have viewed this video. And more people have come forward, giving information," Bernstein said.


The Eagles owner may be under a great deal of pressure to part ways with Vick.

Phil Sheridan: Eagles must cut Vick if he lied (http://www.philly.com/inquirer/sports/20100701_Phil_Sheridan__Eagles_must_cut_Vick_if_he _lied.html)

Last August, after the Eagles' shocking decision to sign the reinstated Vick, Lurie spoke with unprecedented candor and visible anguish during a news conference at the NovaCare Complex.

Lurie talked about his own disgust with Vick's crimes, about his misgivings when coach Andy Reid proposed signing the former Atlanta quarterback. He talked about sitting down with Vick and looking into his eyes for signs of remorse and "self-hatred" for his actions. He said it wouldn't be enough for Vick simply to refrain from causing trouble.

He had to do more. He had to be more.

"If I thought for one instance that this player would be disruptive or unable to be a good teammate and not become a role model, then there's no way I would have allowed this to happen," Lurie said. "If it becomes at all apparent that we are wrong, it won't take very long to make that change."

Reminiscent of Atlanta owner's past "talk" with Vick. At that time Vick did not find it difficult to lie to him and his team mates. How likely is it that history, as it very typically does, is again repeating itself.

TD
07-01-2010, 08:04 AM
Its our prisons' fault. Too much punishment and not enough rehabilitation. :rolleyes:

Seriously, it saddens me to see people squander a second chance. Sometimes I just think our brains simply become hard wired with what we know and do. Everything is an addiction of sorts.

CloakNNNdagger
07-01-2010, 08:16 PM
Marcus Vick makes denial of his own (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/07/01/marcus-vick-makes-denial-of-his-own/)

Marcus Vick thought he threw a successful 30th birthday party for his brother Mike. Then he stepped outside and found out that someone had been shot.

That's the story according to Marcus, who made an appearance Thursday on the "The 757 Club" with Johnny D & Bartley on WXTG 102.1FM in Virginia Beach.

On Wednesday, Bartley reported that Marcus Vick was involved in the shooting. Vick seemed amazed by the accusation and denied it. He said he didn't leave the club until the party was over. "By the time I got outside, cops were there, with an ambulance and everything. . . . I didn't even know what had happened."


That account matches up with what a club spokesman said on Thursday and comes on the same day his brother Michael Vick released a statement denying any involvement.

Marcus Vick said he saw Quanis Phillips, Michael's former co-defendant and the man shot that night, enter the party earlier in the evening. And Phillips apparently stayed all night.

"I did see Phillips come through the door, but he didn't really catch my attention," Vick said. "I don't know where he went once he got into the club. So I don't really have any comments on that."

Vick said he heard rumors about the possible shooter and heard stories about Phillips' behavior. "A couple of the people I was talking to said he was intoxicated and high and drunk. So when people are in those kind of conditions, you never know what they are going to say to other folks in the area to cause a shooting," Vick said.

We're surprised that Marcus was so open on-air, and wasn't angrier at the hosts for saying he was involved. But Vick was aiming to clear his name after seeing our post on Wednesday, which passed along Bartley's report.

"I was just sitting down before y'all called," Vick told the hosts. "And my friend was reading something on sportstalkfootball, nflfootballtalk, protalk, something like that and people making comments I was involved in it, which is crazy."

I know I can't be the only one that sees anything strange about this statement.

GP
07-01-2010, 11:27 PM
Its our prisons' fault. Too much punishment and not enough rehabilitation. :rolleyes:

Seriously, it saddens me to see people squander a second chance. Sometimes I just think our brains simply become hard wired with what we know and do. Everything is an addiction of sorts.

Reading a book entitled "There Is A God" by Antony Flew, who was (for the majority of his life) one of the leading and most notorious atheists. He debated C.S. Lewis in the Socratic Club in England back in the late 1940s.

Flew, in the opening segments of the book (which details why he finally says he now believes that there is, indeed, a God) that researcher and analyst George Barna says our minds are pretty much "hard wired" by age 13. I have also read "First, Break All The Rules" which discusses research that indicates the same thing: Age 13 is when the synapsis in our brain begin to firm up and are not as open to learning new tricks, so to speak.

I think it's very possible that a person can, for lack of a better phrase, "screw themselves" by what they are exposed to and practice (at a personal "choice" level) in their youth. What's interesting is when you see people who experience that "Ah ha!" moment and invariably swerve out of the pattern of failure and somehow find a way to catch on to things. What made them finally realize that a change was needed?

How can Michael Vick be near this AT ALL? Does he feel he has a debt to pay to those "friends," and so he has attempted to justify/rationalize being near that whole social scene regardless of its potential for danger? This is like the pyromaniac who maintains he didn't think the house could catch on fire if he only used a small, itty-bitty smidge of gasoline when he lit the fire.

The Eagles should wise up and cut this guy. Cut your losses NOW. Because at some point, he's going to be gone anyways.

CloakNNNdagger
07-02-2010, 07:01 AM
Reading a book entitled "There Is A God" by Antony Flew, who was (for the majority of his life) one of the leading and most notorious atheists. He debated C.S. Lewis in the Socratic Club in England back in the late 1940s.

Flew, in the opening segments of the book (which details why he finally says he now believes that there is, indeed, a God) that researcher and analyst George Barna says our minds are pretty much "hard wired" by age 13. I have also read "First, Break All The Rules" which discusses research that indicates the same thing: Age 13 is when the synapsis in our brain begin to firm up and are not as open to learning new tricks, so to speak.

I think it's very possible that a person can, for lack of a better phrase, "screw themselves" by what they are exposed to and practice (at a personal "choice" level) in their youth. What's interesting is when you see people who experience that "Ah ha!" moment and invariably swerve out of the pattern of failure and somehow find a way to catch on to things. What made them finally realize that a change was needed?

How can Michael Vick be near this AT ALL? Does he feel he has a debt to pay to those "friends," and so he has attempted to justify/rationalize being near that whole social scene regardless of its potential for danger? This is like the pyromaniac who maintains he didn't think the house could catch on fire if he only used a small, itty-bitty smidge of gasoline when he lit the fire.

The Eagles should wise up and cut this guy. Cut your losses NOW. Because at some point, he's going to be gone anyways.



GP,

Psychology and psychiatry has always intrigued me ever since med school. The one book that I have read numerous times because of its universal applications is FACING CODEPENDENCE by Pia Melody, which chronicles how our childhood experiences always mold our adulthood pathologic attitudes and ways [of course, it also shows us how we grew up with "normal" attributes]...........along with justification techniques such as minimization (as you exampled). It also points out how most people can avoid a shoot-yourself-in-the-foot adult life.........one most important..........find yourself someone(s) who you trust to set you straight when you're about to do wrong..........and ALWAYS listen to him(them)..........until the day you can begin making your own correct life decisions..........if that day ever comes. Of course, some never reach that ultimate transformation...........they are the sociopaths we always seem to hear about in the news.

Again, GP, over the years, I have given this book to many friends. EVERYONE that reads this laymen level written book will see themselves in its chapters, and will gain some introspect as to who they are and how they got there...........and rereads will always seem to afford insights that we previously missed.

GP
07-02-2010, 09:39 AM
GP,

Psychology and psychiatry has always intrigued me ever since med school. The one book that I have read numerous times because of its universal applications is FACING CODEPENDENCE by Pia Melody, which chronicles how our childhood experiences always mold our adulthood pathologic attitudes and ways [of course, it also shows us how we grew up with "normal" attributes]...........along with justification techniques such as minimization (as you exampled). It also points out how most people can avoid a shoot-yourself-in-the-foot adult life.........one most important..........find yourself someone(s) who you trust to set you straight when you're about to do wrong..........and ALWAYS listen to him(them)..........until the day you can begin making your own correct life decisions..........if that day ever comes. Of course, some never reach that ultimate transformation...........they are the sociopaths we always seem to hear about in the news.

Again, GP, over the years, I have given this book to many friends. EVERYONE that reads this laymen level written book will see themselves in its chapters, and will gain some introspect as to who they are and how they got there...........and rereads will always seem to afford insights that we previously missed.

Oh, I'm going to go purchase that book. Thanks for the post.

Sounds very interesting.

The1ApplePie
07-02-2010, 09:57 AM
Marcus Vick makes Mike look like a model human being.

El Tejano
07-02-2010, 11:23 AM
The Eagles should wise up and cut this guy. Cut your losses NOW. Because at some point, he's going to be gone anyways.

They already cut their losses. He plays in Washington now. This will haunt them for a long time.

Koolaid Time
07-03-2010, 12:18 AM
They already cut their losses. He plays in Washington now. This will haunt them for a long time.

I have no doubt that Kevin Kolb is more than ready to be the starter for the Eagles.

steelbtexan
07-03-2010, 12:55 AM
Oh, I'm going to go purchase that book. Thanks for the post.

Sounds very interesting.

But reading a big book like that will cut into my FF reading time.

LOL

CloakNNNdagger
07-03-2010, 09:19 AM
But reading a big book like that will cut into my FF reading time.

LOL


It's actually not big textbook-like. It is relatively short and very readable........and, and as an extra perk, will probably offer insight into why you may have so much conflict over giving up some of your FF reading time.:D

infantrycak
07-03-2010, 09:57 AM
Reading a book entitled "There Is A God" by Antony Flew, who was (for the majority of his life) one of the leading and most notorious atheists.

Do you know about the controversy surrounding that book?

CloakNNNdagger
07-05-2010, 08:25 AM
Interesting pre-party piece:

Vick's July 4th Party (http://blacksportsonline.com/home/index.php/2010/07/michael-vick-hosting-july-4th-all-white-party-at-the-park-at-fourteenth-in-dc/)

Michael didn't attend. He was roasting hotdogs in Virginia. He was probably handcuffed to the barbeque pit by his agent and PR people. But Marcus has not been able to afford an agent or PR person for quite some time, and so he attended, acting as the "token" Vick presence.



BTW, I got MY invitation. Did you get YOURS?
http://blacksportsonline.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/vickwhiteparty-232x300.jpg
I couldn't make it, though. In order to get in, you either had to show your invitation or a loaded gun. I lost my invitation......and I couldn't get the gun past the airport baggage check.

Koolaid Time
07-06-2010, 04:39 PM
I smell a payoff....

No charges filed in shooting after Vick party


VIRGINIA BEACH, Va. — Police said Tuesday they know who was responsible for shooting another man following Michael Vick's birthday celebration, but the shooter will not be charged "at this time" because the victim has not cooperated with investigators.

Vick was not the shooter and there are no suspects other than the shooter, police spokesman Adam Bernstein said. The decision not to press charges was made by the prosecutor's office, but could be reversed if the victim decides to cooperate.

In a statement released Tuesday, police said witnesses have also been reluctant to help in the investigation of the shooting outside a nightclub just after 2 a.m. on June 25. The statement said because the shooter will not be charged, his identity will not be released.

The shooting took place about a block away from the club where a 30th birthday party for the Philadelphia Eagles' quarterback was ending. According to a spokesman for the nightclub, video surveillance cameras positioned in front of the club showed Vick climbing into a car and leaving about 4 minutes before the shooting.

The victim has not be identified by the police, but Vick's attorney, Larry Woodward, said it was Quanis Phillips — a co-defendant in the federal dogfighting case that landed Vick in federal prison. Phillips, who Woodward said was not invited to the party and did not interact with Vick while there, was treated at a hospital and released the following day.

Woodward did not return a phone call from The Associated Press seeking comment.

Vick has said he was not involved. In a statement to the AP on Thursday, Vick also said he notified the NFL and the Eagles once he was aware of what had taken place.

The team and league have said they are looking into the situation.

http://www.ajc.com/sports/no-charges-filed-in-565338.html

Second Honeymoon
07-06-2010, 06:56 PM
Vick and all his wannabe gangsta hangers on, need to go away

this guy has dragged the league through the dirt long enough
he is involved in all this beef as is his brother
he is obviously dumb as dirt for throwing such a party

the NFL is not a right, it's a privilege....Vick can go **** himself for all I care

CloakNNNdagger
07-06-2010, 06:59 PM
From what I’ve learned, it seems that the “All White” parties were Marcus’ ideas. There’s a reason Marcus was settling up with Club Guadalajara while the shooting took place a couple of weeks ago. He was the one benefiting financially from the event.
Genetic selection:


Michael Vick was helping his little brother make a few dollars by allowing his name to be used for a few parties at some nightclubs in Virginia and Washington D.C..

Clearly Marcus wasn’t thinking about his brother’s best interest when he came up with the idea of having the parties. Foolishly Michael agreed to it and that decision may cost him millions. These parties have helped Marcus put a few dollars in his pocket but jeopardized millions that his brother could make playing football.

This is foolish. Vick’s association with his brother and friends from his childhood have done major damage to him, yet he refuses to say no and establish some separation.

LINK (http://www.gcobb.com/2010/07/06/first-vick-and-now-russell-have-shown-that-its-not-all-about-talent/)

CloakNNNdagger
07-06-2010, 07:21 PM
I smell a payoff....

No charges filed in shooting after Vick party



Note that there is no "acquittal" of brother Marcus.

Remember the old saying, "The family that sits together, ****s together"...........or something like that.:kitten:

GP
07-06-2010, 07:47 PM
Do you know about the controversy surrounding that book?

Oh, I am sure it's because his old colleagues say it was a deathbed type of conversion. Flew stated, in the book, that old colleagues would rip him to shreds for being an apostate to the atheist belief system. He said they would attack him for merely being an old man who would clutch to deism so near to his death.

Flew says he wants to follow the argument wherever it might lead, but obviously that's not OK if it leads to one of atheism's torch bearers practically going his own way instead of staying on the reservation, as well as continuing to follow the argument wherever it might lead.

We can go to the wikipedia page on Flew and examine the ever-shifting standing of Flew's belief(s) in atheism and deism. It points, IMO, to a man who is open to the idea of deism and who has even had the guts (in the face of being eviscerated by his "colleagues") to say he can see the possibility of a First Cause God.

My favorite parts of the book is what's said about Dawkins.

In regards to the "controversy" about authorship of the book (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antony_Flew):

A further article by Anthony Gottlieb noted a strong difference in style between the passages giving Flew's biography, and those laying out the case for a god, with the latter including Americanisms such as "beverages", "vacation" and "candy". He came to the same conclusion as Oppenheimer, and stated that "Far from strengthening the case for the existence of God, [the book] rather weakens the case for the existence of Antony Flew".[25] Varghese replied with a letter disputing this view.[26] Flew released a statement through his publisher stating that although Varghese did the actual writing, the book belonged to him and represented his thinking.[27] An audio commentary by William Lane Craig[28] concurs with this position, but Richard Carrier disputes this view.[31] In June 2008, Flew stated his position once again, in a letter to a fellow of the Universities and Colleges Christian Fellowship.[7]

Christian writer Regis Nicoll claims that "Moreover, in a signed, handwritten letter (a copy of which I now have) sent to Roy Varghese, the legendary philosopher reaffirmed his conversion while criticizing Oppenheimer for drawing attention away from the book’s central argument: the collapse of rationalism."[32] He argues that "Even Mark Oppenheimer described the ex-atheist “flaunt[ing] his allegiance to deism” in May 2006 to a Christian audience at Biola University."

infantrycak
07-07-2010, 09:19 AM
We can go to the wikipedia page on Flew and examine the ever-shifting standing of Flew's belief(s) in atheism and deism. It points, IMO, to a man who is open to the idea of deism and who has even had the guts (in the face of being eviscerated by his "colleagues") to say he can see the possibility of a First Cause God.

I don't think there is any real question about his conversion to the idea of deism. I think there is a significant question as to how much of the book was written by his co-author.

Koolaid Time
07-07-2010, 02:12 PM
Note that there is no "acquittal" of brother Marcus.

Remember the old saying, "The family that sits together, ****s together"...........or something like that.:kitten:

Or the old saying "The family that sits in **** together, totally stink".

CloakNNNdagger
07-07-2010, 07:42 PM
More facts are coming out........and it points to Michael Vick showing as good judgement as he has always in the past. He should thank the Lord that someone(s) took out the "hook" and saved him from himself. I suspect that given time all the facts surrounding this shooting will reveal themselves.

CA: Vick had confrontation minutes before shooting
Confrontation involved shouting, words, bumping (http://www.wavy.com/dpp/news/local_news/va_beach/ca-vick-had-confrontation-minutes-before-shooting)


VIRGINIA BEACH, Va. (WAVY) - Last week, surveillance footage showed that Michael Vick had left the scene of his 30th birthday party before the shooting at the Virginia Beach Town Center took place.

Two days later, police said that no one--not even Vick--had been ruled out as a suspect in that shooting.

Tuesday, police alerted media outlets that they had found a suspect in the shooting, and confirmed that other possible suspects--including Vick--had been ruled out.

But Wednesday, Commonwealth's Attorney Harvey L. Bryant revealed that Vick had been engaged in a confrontation minutes before the shots were fired.

"The investigation shows he was not physically present when the shooting took place," said Bryant. "There were some confrontations between individuals and between groups and Michael Vick was involved in one of those confrontations."

"[It was] a confrontation that involved shouting, words passing, some bumping."

Vick had to be restrained by friends, Bryant said, who put Vick back in the limo, but he then got out to confront a person that Bryant will not identify.

"In terms of just using good judgment, at one point, he got in the limousine, and should have left at that point. He got out of the limousine, and with the help of several friends, he was returned to to the limousine and left," said Bryant.

Police say they know who pulled the trigger near Guadalajara after the party, but, because uncooperative witnesses have led to a lack of sufficient evidence, no charges will be filed at this time.

HOU-TEX
07-08-2010, 08:38 AM
I can't stand Vick at all, but it sounds like he's at least surrounded himself with better people this time. Or just paying them better.

GP
07-08-2010, 11:19 AM
I don't think there is any real question about his conversion to the idea of deism. I think there is a significant question as to how much of the book was written by his co-author.

Certainly that's going to be a big question whenever a co-author is involved.

Look, I am reading the book right now...and there are times in the book when Flew is discussing terms and concepts in philosophy, as it relates to atheism vs. deism, and my head is swimming because of the complexity of his thinking.

Granted, I did not take any philosophy classes in college, but I consider myself someone who can skim the surface and grab onto concepts even if I don't fully understand all that's there. I had trouble, and still have some trouble, really grasping what he is saying in some parts of his book. It makes me feel dumb, honestly. I sit there and think "Crap, this is beyond me." I usually never have to re-read text in order to understand it. With this, I am re-reading stuff and having to get on the net and research what the crap he is saying.

Therefore, it might be that the co-author is dumbing it down for people like me. Sometimes, really smart people cannot relate their thinking to normal people. Maybe that's what happened there. I can go stretches of time in the book where I feel it's an easy read. Then I hit speed bumps where maybe one paragraph takes me an hour or so to dissect and understand. I think the majority of the book was written by the co-author, but that doesn't mean it runs contrary to Flew. If I had read a book entirely written by Flew, I might just lay it down and move onto something else.

Or, maybe he was in a declined mental state (as has been alleged).

Regardless, I think Flew represents someone who was genuinely trying to (as he says) "Follow the argument wherever it might lead." He was raised with deism, turned from it and pursued a career that led him to disavow deism, and then returns to deism at the end of his life. At the culmination of all his best attempts to disprove deism, he ends up throwing his arms up in the air and surrendering to it. That says a lot to me.

HJam72
07-08-2010, 12:50 PM
I just think Vick's Flewn over the cuckoo's nest.

HJam72
07-08-2010, 12:52 PM
Certainly that's going to be a big question whenever a co-author is involved.

Look, I am reading the book right now...and there are times in the book when Flew is discussing terms and concepts in philosophy, as it relates to atheism vs. deism, and my head is swimming because of the complexity of his thinking.

Granted, I did not take any philosophy classes in college, but I consider myself someone who can skim the surface and grab onto concepts even if I don't fully understand all that's there. I had trouble, and still have some trouble, really grasping what he is saying in some parts of his book. It makes me feel dumb, honestly. I sit there and think "Crap, this is beyond me." I usually never have to re-read text in order to understand it. With this, I am re-reading stuff and having to get on the net and research what the crap he is saying.

Therefore, it might be that the co-author is dumbing it down for people like me. Sometimes, really smart people cannot relate their thinking to normal people. Maybe that's what happened there. I can go stretches of time in the book where I feel it's an easy read. Then I hit speed bumps where maybe one paragraph takes me an hour or so to dissect and understand. I think the majority of the book was written by the co-author, but that doesn't mean it runs contrary to Flew. If I had read a book entirely written by Flew, I might just lay it down and move onto something else.

Or, maybe he was in a declined mental state (as has been alleged).

Regardless, I think Flew represents someone who was genuinely trying to (as he says) "Follow the argument wherever it might lead." He was raised with deism, turned from it and pursued a career that led him to disavow deism, and then returns to deism at the end of his life. At the culmination of all his best attempts to disprove deism, he ends up throwing his arms up in the air and surrendering to it. That says a lot to me.

Yep, that's pretty much how it seems to go. Just keep trying and you will eventually either believe in God or not believe that YOU exist....or both. :)

CloakNNNdagger
07-08-2010, 01:11 PM
I can't stand Vick at all, but it sounds like he's at least surrounded himself with better people this time. Or just paying them better.

Unfortunately, he continues to expose himself to situations that have many more of his "old low character type of people" surrounding him. If it continues, even his "good" friends won't be able to save him. Evidently, they barely did this time.

HOU-TEX
07-08-2010, 01:19 PM
Unfortunately, he continues to expose himself to situations that have many more of his "old low character type of people" surrounding him. If it continues, even his "good" friends won't be able to save him. Evidently, they barely did this time.

That's very true, Cloak. It's likely just a matter of time with this joker.

Personally, I like what Goodell's doing with his conduct policy. Unfortunately, he believes in giving players more than 2 chances. The whole Pacman situation was absolutely ridiculous. Also, IMO, if a player receives a jail sentence a lifetime ban from the NFL should be handed down with it. It might sound harsh, but if he wants to be taken serious he should tighten the policy even more.

CloakNNNdagger
07-09-2010, 07:38 AM
A Philly piece with interesting comments by Vick's cheerleader, Tony Dungy.

Vick's judgment fall (http://www.philly.com/dailynews/sports/20100709_Vick_s_judgment_fall.html)

TONY DUNGY, aka Michael Vick's biggest fan, said the Eagles backup quarterback may still feel the wrath of NFL commissioner Roger Goodell.

It was Dungy, you'll remember, who convinced the Eagles to give Vick a shot after he had served nearly 2 years in prison for his role in a dogfighting ring.

Yesterday, Dungy appeared on the Dan Patrick Radio Show and said that Vick used poor judgment in attending a birthday party thrown in his honor at a club in Virginia Beach, Va., on June 25.

Police have said Vick wasn't present during a shooting that took place outside the club. But, on Tuesday, NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said the league is still looking at the case.

"He made some mistakes that he probably won't make again, hopefully." Dungy told Patrick. "It was just not very good judgment and putting himself in a position where you're inviting the public to pay money and come to a birthday party, and you've got people there that you don't know who they are. You've got people that may be carrying weapons, people that are going to drink alcohol. And it's late at night. It's a recipe for failure.

"I think the bottom line is that he made some mistakes by being in the wrong place. He left that place before anything really happened, but it could have been disastrous and may still be."

"He made some mistakes that he probably won't make again, hopefully." And I will probably hit the Lotto..........hopefully.

CloakNNNdagger
07-11-2010, 10:32 AM
Vick has been forbidden from leaving Virginia (http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/sports/Source-Michael-Vick-Not-Allowed-to-Travel-98179639.html). Seeing that his travel plans must be approved by his probation officer, I would take that as the authorities' acknowlegment that Vick broke probation. Charles Robinson of Yahoo Sports (http://twitter.com/yahoosportsnfl) seems to have come to the same conclusion (also follow the sgw94 link (http://twitter.com/sgw94)).

Wolf
07-11-2010, 01:26 PM
TUCKER, Ga. (AP)—Michael Vick(notes) was a no-show at his celebrity golf tournament Sunday after probation officials restricted travel for the Philadelphia Eagles quarterback this weekend.

Vick spokeswoman, Judy Smith, said that Vick’s travel has been at the discretion of his probation officer since he was released from prison in a federal dogfighting case in May 2009.

The restriction follows a prosecutor saying this week that while Vick wasn’t involved in a shooting after his 30th birthday party in Virginia Beach, Va., that he was in a confrontation before the incident.


Vick missed the Michael Vick Celebrity Golf tournament in Georgia and also did not make a scheduled appearance at a youth football camp in Raleigh, N.C., this weekend.

Spokespersons for both events say they were notified Sunday morning that Vick would not be attending.



http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-vick-no-show

CloakNNNdagger
07-11-2010, 03:01 PM
Sets a new standard for the definition of "low-life." And to be lauded for his charitable humanitarianism??....................This is the only place he has ever voluntarily donated without publicity-driven motivation.


http://www.babywishes.com.sg/Blog/image.axd?picture=Urinal_with_urinal_cake_gsu_cit_ 2004.jpg



Oh, and I almost forgot his other "charitable humanitarian" donations.................


http://www.dadsclub.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/sperm.jpg



with a generous sprinklin of.............


http://www.cdc.gov/std/stats01/images/std.gif

GP
07-12-2010, 10:10 PM
(sigh)

Why don't they just lock the guy up, instead of wasting so much manpower and time and tax payer's money on keeping up with his latest shenanigans?

It's obvious that he's NOT a changed man. Changed men don't run in the same circles once they're out.

And Tony Dungy must feel like an a$$ right now. He went out on a limb, and essentially was USED by Vick as a way for Vick to get "in the clear" a little bit easier than he would have on his own.

Jiminy Christmas this is such a joke. I hope McNabb and the Redskins absolutely obliterate the Eagles. Both times.

CloakNNNdagger
07-26-2010, 04:37 PM
Vick cleared by NFL (http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/dneagles/Vick_cleared_by_NFL.html)


Michael Vick arrived at Lehigh today and answered questions from the media. Here is a sampling of what he said:

* He said he should have listened to his mother and kept the party private, rather than allowing the public in.

* Vick says he found out about shooting "15-20 mins" after it happened "from a friend."

* Vick said it "wasn't a pleasant conversation" when Vick told Andy Reid about the shooting.

* Vick says he wants to sit down with comissioner Roger Goodell when Goodell visits Eagles camp next week and "look him in the eye." He said he spoke with Goodell on the phone last week.

* He said he knows he's on his "last chance" and knows he shouldn't have put himself in that situation where something like the shooting could happen.

EARLIER:

The NFL has completed its investigation into the shooting at Michael Vick's birthday party last month in Virginia Beach and he has been cleared to play, a league spokesman told the Daily News today.

In an email, NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said, "there is no change in his playing status."

The league could have disciplined Vick under the personal conduct policy even though police have said Vick will not be charged. Vick's attorney has said he was gone from the scene before the shooting took place.

Vick reportedly met with comissioner Roger Goodell, with Goodell urging Vick to tighten his circle to family and close friends. The NFL has said it will not comment on what it deems private conversations between players and Goodell.

The announcement comes as Vick, rookies and selected veterans are scheduled to report to Lehigh today for the start of training camp.

Vick is expected to answer questions from reporters for the first time since the incident.


Shoulda listened to Momma???? She's evidently always given him great advice.

*always clean up after the dog blood before coming to the table.

*wear rubber gloves and rubber boots while electrocuting the dogs.

*always use someone else's name if you're in trouble.

*if you've got herpes, neither I nor anyone else wants to know.

*practice "I didn't do it" and "I know nothing" in front of a mirror before leaving the house.

*when you play football, run like Hell........just as if the cops were after you.

Koolaid Time
08-04-2010, 10:13 PM
Mike Vick dodged the bullet that his thug brother allegedly fired at Q.

The Comish isn't taking any disciplinary action.

I bet Philly still cuts him at the end of TC.

StarStruck
08-05-2010, 11:57 AM
Shoulda listened to Momma???? She's evidently always given him great advice.

*always clean up after the dog blood before coming to the table.

*wear rubber gloves and rubber boots while electrocuting the dogs.

*always use someone else's name if you're in trouble.

*if you've got herpes, neither I nor anyone else wants to know.

*practice "I didn't do it" and "I know nothing" in front of a mirror before leaving the house.

*when you play football, run like Hell........just as if the cops were after you.



Based on what I read and saw on one of the cable shows, his mama was none to pleased with his part in the Bad Newz Kennel business nor the friends that he associated. She wasn't the only one close to him that felt that way, only he chose not to listen. At some point an adult must be held accountable for his own decisions. There are times that no matter how a kid was raised, bad decisions don't necessarily reflect back to parenting.