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TheBigpaki
07-25-2007, 11:22 PM
Can't I dream he will be as good as he was.

THis gives you the warm feeling in your heart.


http://youtube.com/watch?v=k543UYkYqz0

threetoedpete
07-26-2007, 09:00 AM
Of course you can. But the reality of it is he is over thirty and every time he steps onto the feild now...at this stage of his career, he is defing the odds. Most last three years and this guy has gone 2.5 times longer. Keep the touches below twenty a game, platoon him he Might get to 1200/8 TDs behind this line.
If Carolina is up to parr, that will be a bench mark. He gets past the pathers he's got a real chance to finish the season.

badboy
07-26-2007, 12:05 PM
I see Green and Dayne as for this season only. Hopefully, one of the younger guys shows enough to be a starter for a few seasons after. If not, I'd look strong at a RB for 2008. We could possibly end the season with question marks at QB, #2 WR, FS, LT, C, #2 CB, DE (opposite Mario), LB and RB.

johndoe
07-26-2007, 12:11 PM
with chris taylors size and speed you would think he could potentialy be a really good back...now just needs to fix the fumbling problem

Double Barrel
07-26-2007, 12:16 PM
Let's not forget Green's blocking abilities, too. They are a skill that Kubiak will want to be passed down to the younger guys.

Nice highlights, though! :thumbup

badboy
07-26-2007, 12:18 PM
with chris taylors size and speed you would think he could potentialy be a really good back...now just needs to fix the fumbling problem
I think a lot of eyes will be on this youngster. He started out pretty well. Maybe this is his year to explode on the season. If we could have another 1,000 yds rusher with a few TDs originating from outside of the 20 on this team, it would really benefit the offense.

ObsiWan
07-26-2007, 12:19 PM
Let's not forget Green's blocking abilities, too. They are a skill that Kubiak will want to be passed down to the younger guys.

Nice highlights, though! :thumbup

Exactly. That's why Lundy got sent back to the practice squad for a while last year. His blocking was bad.

TK_Gamer
07-26-2007, 12:54 PM
one thing that stood out to me in the video was tremendous speed control, like a sports car keeping the needle at redline but changing gears at will, very impressive. you see how he would coast for a while then "BAM" put it in passing gear and shoot past 2 or 3 defenders? almost like a kick returners moves. watching him in recent years though he seems to have lost a few of those gears, not quite the acceleration ability. but he still has the vision, maybe moreso now then in college. I think we will benefit from his play both on the scoreboard and on the practice field. Taylor has the speed and the agility, not sure about the explosive quickness though. I fear we may need to spend a high draft pick to solve our long term situation at RB. but we should be solid enough until that can mature. I cant wait ! GO TEXANS!

Mike Kerns
07-26-2007, 01:24 PM
If he is about 70% of that video, Id be satisfied...

V3rm0nt3r
07-26-2007, 05:51 PM
If they give him 20 touches a game he should last the season and get 1200+ yards.

Rampage
07-26-2007, 06:05 PM
Who doesn't want a 30 year old injury prone back running behind the worst line in the NFL?

Texanmike02
07-26-2007, 06:33 PM
Green was no doubt the best RB in free agency. But he has had really 1 extremely impressive year and a few in which he was in the top 7 or 8 backs in the league. He hasn't had 1200 yards in a season in 3 years. He got 1059 yards last year and 1163 the year before his injury. He's only scored 8 or more rushing TD's 3 times in his career and since 03 he hasn't had a bunch of success to speak of.

Expecting him to get 1200/8 may be a bit much especially since I would imagine that Dayne will get a lot of goal line carries. I would pay more attention to his YPC than anything if you want to gauge his effectiveness. If the Texans as a whole average more than 4.0 - 4.2 YPC (not including the QB) they will have a better year than I thought.

And where do we expect him to get 20 carries/game?

Here are his carries/game averages since he got to green bay.

16.4
19
20.4
22.1
17
15.4
19

I think if you want him to stay healthy you have to limit him to 18 or so touches. He has played a full season only 4 times in his career (granted he's played at least 14 games 8 of his 9 seasons). I expect him to be spelled by Dayne early and its a damn good sign if we see Taylor replacing him later in the year.



Mike

ObsiWan
07-26-2007, 07:19 PM
Ahman getting 1200+ would be nice. But if I had to choose between that stat and our running game as a whole averaging 4.0-4.5 yds/carry, I'd pick the latter. That says we have a running attack that must be dealt with which, in turn, makes our play action passing more effective.

YoungTexanFan
07-27-2007, 12:12 AM
Look, it's a nice video of the guy in his hey-day in college. That was over 8 years ago. He is on the wrong side of 30, and doesn't have those gears. Even in college he was caught from behind on his highlights, and that was just the Big 12. This is the NFL, where they can catch Bush easily. Green isn't a good enough back to do that stuff anymore. I really do not expect more than 800-900 yards from him. I don't think he will have an injury, but may have a mystry one at the end of the year that he had to secretly cope with during the year and he is let go for that cited reason. In reality, I expect him to be a flop. I expect him to go about 3-4 games as the true feature back, and when he proves that he can't be that guy, we start seeing much more of a rotation.

The Pencil Neck
07-27-2007, 12:50 AM
Look, it's a nice video of the guy in his hey-day in college. That was over 8 years ago. He is on the wrong side of 30, and doesn't have those gears. Even in college he was caught from behind on his highlights, and that was just the Big 12. This is the NFL, where they can catch Bush easily. Green isn't a good enough back to do that stuff anymore. I really do not expect more than 800-900 yards from him. I don't think he will have an injury, but may have a mystry one at the end of the year that he had to secretly cope with during the year and he is let go for that cited reason. In reality, I expect him to be a flop. I expect him to go about 3-4 games as the true feature back, and when he proves that he can't be that guy, we start seeing much more of a rotation.

OTOH, he did have a 70 yard run last year and he has had some 90+ runs in his career.

I'm still a bit ambivalent about the Ahman Green signing. I'm hoping that he's a monster and a hoss for us and he was one of the most hyped free agent RB's but there's a lot of possibility for a miss with him. They say he looks like he's in great shape so let's hope he returns to the 2003 form. :fans:

YellerLotYeller
07-27-2007, 01:22 AM
Let's not forget Green's blocking abilities, too. They are a skill that Kubiak will want to be passed down to the younger guys.

Nice highlights, though! :thumbup

Very true....it will be nice to have someone help out the blind side.

Andrew6
07-27-2007, 01:35 AM
he WAS a beast 10 years ago lets see how he does this year. I'd like to see how Taylor comes along. He did great last year. He seemed to be way quicker than his blocks most the time. I think thats why Dayne did so well. He was slow enough that his blocks were there and had enough power to push his blocks through. Once our O line steps up and gets some speed I think that our RB core will be able to get quicker and Chris Taylor will really shine. Untill we get speed on our O line its going to be a big mans running world.

ReliantTexan
07-27-2007, 02:39 AM
Didn't he just turn 30,(just wondering)?From what I've seen and heard of him he is in great shape,and didn't look like he lost that much speed in mini-camp.I think he could rush for 1200 this season,but see Chris Taylor getting most of the carries later in the season.I was really impressed by what I saw from Chris at MC.He's got great speed,size and Kubiak is impressed with him.So I think he will be the future at RB.

Texanmike02
07-27-2007, 02:44 AM
Didn't he just turn 30,(just wondering)?From what I've seen and heard of him he is in great shape,and didn't look like he lost that much speed in mini-camp.I think he could rush for 1200 this season,but see Chris Taylor getting most of the carries later in the season.I was really impressed by what I saw from Chris at MC.He's got great speed,size and Kubiak is impressed with him.So I think he will be the future at RB.

Yes he did. And 30 is a bad time for running backs. I was just looking at it and there have been only like 14 guys who were already 30 when the season began that rushed for more than 1000 yards since 1980. Like 5 of those are Curtis Martin. Look for around 1000 if you ask me. Maybe less. YPC (yards per carry if someone is asleep while reading...) is probably the stat to look for.

Mike

DBCooper
07-27-2007, 08:12 AM
Yes he did. And 30 is a bad time for running backs. I was just looking at it and there have been only like 14 guys who were already 30 when the season began that rushed for more than 1000 yards since 1980. Like 5 of those are Curtis Martin. Look for around 1000 if you ask me. Maybe less. YPC (yards per carry if someone is asleep while reading...) is probably the stat to look for.

Mike

Dude, are you afraid of disappointment?

Cheer your team on, don't keep looking for the negative of everything. If you want to be a negative fan, become a Vikings fan, they are experts at it.

Double Barrel
07-27-2007, 10:08 AM
Mike Sherman said Green is looking great, and he's seen him for a good amount of his career. We have to have some faith in our FO, because they aren't doing this for their health. They want to win more than we want to see them win.

If Green doesn't pan out, we'll find out soon enough. But it won't be the end of the world, or even end of the season. We just have to hope for the best, and realize that part of signing Green was to teach certain skills and work attitudes to our younger backs. He's not here to be a long-term Texan.

eriadoc
07-27-2007, 10:27 AM
It's all downhill from about age 30 on. Bone density decreases, maximum lung capacity decreases, organ efficiency decreases, the body starts losing its ability to regenerate cells, and neurological processes slow down. You always hear about how age 30 is bad for athletes - well these are some reasons why.

Certain people can string it out a little longer, and athletes in less physically demanding sports can cheat time a little better, but Father Time is undefeated. There's always steroids and HGH, which can alter biological processes, but that just buys a little time before other Very Bad Things (tm) start happening.

I'm hoping Green can stave off Father Time for one more year and put up a good YPC. I don't expect him to reach a lofty plateau in yardage or TDs, but if he can put up 4.2 YPC for a full season and pop off a couple 20+ TD runs, I'll call it a success. Taylor Dayne is going to have to pick up the slack (OK, bad '80s music reference there, lol).

HOU-TEX
07-27-2007, 10:28 AM
Mike Sherman said Green is looking great, and he's seen him for a good amount of his career. We have to have some faith in our FO, because they aren't doing this for their health. They want to win more than we want to see them win.

If Green doesn't pan out, we'll find out soon enough. But it won't be the end of the world, or even end of the season. We just have to hope for the best, and realize that part of signing Green was to teach certain skills and work attitudes to our younger backs. He's not here to be a long-term Texan.

Personally, I think he's going to have one of his best years of his career. The Texans Oline has always been dogged on by the fans and media, but in reality been decent to good at run blocking.

I was never a huge Dominick fan at RB. So, if he can accomplish a 1000 yds a season, Green should dominate.:splits:

eriadoc
07-27-2007, 10:31 AM
Personally, I think he's going to have one of his best years of his career. The Texans Oline has always been dogged on by the fans and media, but in reality been decent to good at run blocking.

I was never a huge Dominick fan at RB. So, if he can accomplish a 1000 yds a season, Green should dominate.:splits:

DD was a lot better than people give him credit for. The line has always been better at run blocking than they have been at pass pro, but DD made those guys look good, too. He had an uncanny ability to never really take a solid hit, break arm tackles, keep the legs moving, running with a low center of gravity, and really, really good field vision. He never was a homerun threat, so people incorrectly think he wasn't that good.

HOU-TEX
07-27-2007, 10:35 AM
DD was a lot better than people give him credit for. The line has always been better at run blocking than they have been at pass pro, but DD made those guys look good, too. He had an uncanny ability to never really take a solid hit, break arm tackles, keep the legs moving, running with a low center of gravity, and really, really good field vision. He never was a homerun threat, so people incorrectly think he wasn't that good.

IMO, it was the other way around. The Oline made DD look good. Either way, I believe Green is by far a better RB at 30 than DD ever was.

And Green does still have the homerun threat.:shades:

eriadoc
07-27-2007, 10:43 AM
IMO, it was the other way around. The Oline made DD look good. Either way, I believe Green is by far a better RB at 30 than DD ever was.

And Green does still have the homerun threat.:shades:

Methinks you should go back, watch some of your tapes, and pay more attention to some of the tight spaces DD was fitting through. He had a knack for finding tight spaces, getting through, and making yards after contact.

But, we can agree to disagree. While I don't portray DD as a great RB, I seem to be at odds with most of the board in my assertion that he was better than many of the posters here give him credit for. I agree that Green was a better RB, but last year's version of Green was certainly not any better than DD was, especially when you factor in the receiving contributions. If Green is healthier now from his injury and can fight off Father Time for a year or two, he certainly can be better. And that is what we are all hoping for.

:texflag:

TK_Gamer
07-27-2007, 10:47 AM
Actually Green kinda runs likd DD or vice versa if that bothers you, Green has allows been economy in motion with quick bursts of speed, never really taking a full hit. not bouncing around alot, just quick angled bursts barely getting by a pack of defenders. Green had the top gear though also, able to kick it into hyperdrive once he got some space. DD got tackled from behind alot, gaining medium yardage but taking many many snaps. wich is why he wore out his knee in such a short amount of time. I think if Green can keep his snaps at under 20 a game he will give us all we need. Then add in another 500 or so yards from Dayne and company , and we will have a solid but not spectacular run game. I like it.

HOU-TEX
07-27-2007, 10:55 AM
Methinks you should go back, watch some of your tapes, and pay more attention to some of the tight spaces DD was fitting through. He had a knack for finding tight spaces, getting through, and making yards after contact.

But, we can agree to disagree. While I don't portray DD as a great RB, I seem to be at odds with most of the board in my assertion that he was better than many of the posters here give him credit for. I agree that Green was a better RB, but last year's version of Green was certainly not any better than DD was, especially when you factor in the receiving contributions. If Green is healthier now from his injury and can fight off Father Time for a year or two, he certainly can be better. And that is what we are all hoping for.

:texflag:

It appears we aree to a certain point. I basically agree with everything you said in this paragraph. My comments weren't meaning DD was a bad RB, just that he was average to just above average.

Last year Green had 1059 yds 4.0 ypc in 14 games. While not being great, those numbers are solid for a guy that played through most of last season in pain.

Dominick was never labeled as dependable either. In the three years he played, he never finished a complete season. Green OTOH, has been very dependable and delivering 1000 yd seasons 6 out of nine seasons.

I think we agree, just on different levels.:)

TexansLucky13
07-27-2007, 10:57 AM
IMO, his running style will allow him to defy time more than most, simply because he doesn't do a lot of fancy stuff. He is smart, he hits the hole quick and punches through anyone that stands in his way. He hasn't lost his instincts. My only concerns would be how many carries he can get in a game.

Texanmike02
07-27-2007, 11:44 AM
Dude, are you afraid of disappointment?

Cheer your team on, don't keep looking for the negative of everything. If you want to be a negative fan, become a Vikings fan, they are experts at it.

You're right. Allow me to change my predictions:

Schaub becomes the first QB to pass for 6000 yards in a season.

Green becomes the first person to pass for 2000, rush for 3000 and have 1000 receiving yards.

AJ will have 4000 receiving yards.

After we beat the Cheifs by a record 146 points every team will fear our mighty Texans and petitions the league office to have the games played on xbox on rookie mode.

Nah, I enjoy looking at things objectively. Why does everyone missinterpret my opinion for negative? Is it not possible to be excited (as I am) about the future of this team without recognizing the shortcomings of today? To each their own I suppose.

You're free to disagree but the fact that he's run for more than 1200 yards 2 or 3 times in his career, combined with his age and recent injuries lead me to believe he's not going to get 1200 yards this year. I am not sure he's even going t break 1000 yards.

As for being a fan, I was a fan even when they were calling them the roughnecks, I think you'll see me around for a while.

Mike

Texanmike02
07-27-2007, 11:45 AM
IMO, his running style will allow him to defy time more than most, simply because he doesn't do a lot of fancy stuff. He is smart, he hits the hole quick and punches through anyone that stands in his way. He hasn't lost his instincts. My only concerns would be how many carries he can get in a game.

Yes avoiding contact for a running back has always lead to shortened careers. Good thing Earl Campbell and Eddie George initiated all that contact or their careers would have been pretty short.

Mike

Vega
07-27-2007, 11:46 AM
I think it's also important to note that he didn't play much his first few years in the league, and he didn't have those crazy 400 carry seasons like Eddie George or some other guys had. So he has less mileage than many others when they hit 30. I don't expect him to be the 1800 yard back he was in 03, and to be honest, I don't want him to be because that probably means we're relying too much on him and not spelling him enough.

But he can have a good year and make the running game as a whole more effective. Yeah it would be nice to have a 1900 yard, 25 TD, Pro Bowl back who makes all the highlight reels, but it's more important, if less sexy, to have a solid overall running game that keeps defenses honest. I think the trend your seeing in the league towards fewer "feature" backs supports this and I think Green can be part of a great running "team".

ObsiWan
07-27-2007, 11:55 AM
Originally Posted by Texanmike http://home.austin.rr.com/khari/images/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=697897#post697897)
Yes he did. And 30 is a bad time for running backs. I was just looking at it and there have been only like 14 guys who were already 30 when the season began that rushed for more than 1000 yards since 1980. Like 5 of those are Curtis Martin. Look for around 1000 if you ask me. Maybe less. YPC (yards per carry if someone is asleep while reading...) is probably the stat to look for.

Mike


Don't get hung up on that 1000-yd number. The important thing is that we move the chains so the defense has to respect our running attack. If that happens our play-action passing game will be effective and Schaub doesn't have to do 5 & 7 step drops to make the offense work.

And OBTW, all these guys have had productive seasons after the age of 30 - and I didn't have to go back to 1980.
Tiki Barber
Corey Dillon
Fred Taylor
Warrick Dunn
Curtis Martin

Last point - Denver gave Travis Henry a five-year deal while the Jets rewarded Thomas Jones with a four-year contract after acquiring him in a trade with Chicago. Both players will turn 29 this season and each received $12 million in guaranteed cash. Would those teams have paid those kinds of bucks out if they were afraid of 30?

As long as Green and whoever (I'm still hoping its Taylor) are platooned correctly, both guys will stay fresh and our running game will have to be respected.

real
07-27-2007, 11:55 AM
Yes avoiding contact for a running back has always lead to shortened careers. Good thing Earl Campbell and Eddie George initiated all that contact or their careers would have been pretty short.

Mike

I don't think you understood what he was saying...

Backs that rely on quickness and being able to outrun everyone are going to have more trouble being effective when they turn 30 because they are naturally going to lose some of that quickness and speed....

Ahman isn't an Eddie George or Earl Campbell type back so I don't really get your point...

If anything he's closer to Curtis Martin...

Texanmike02
07-27-2007, 12:01 PM
Don't get hung up on that 1000-yd number. The important thing is that we move the chains so the defense has to respect our running attack. If that happens our play-action passing game will be effective and Schaub doesn't have to do 5 & 7 step drops to make the offense work.

And OBTW, all these guys have had productive seasons after the age of 30 - and I didn't have to go back to 1980.
Tiki Barber
Corey Dillon
Fred Taylor
Warrick Dunn
Curtis Martin

Last point - Denver gave Travis Henry a five-year deal while the Jets rewarded Thomas Jones with a four-year contract after acquiring him in a trade with Chicago. Both players will turn 29 this season and each received $12 million in guaranteed cash. Would those teams have paid those kinds of bucks out if they were afraid of 30?

As long as Green and whoever (I'm still hoping its Taylor) are platooned correctly, both guys will stay fresh and our running game will have to be respected.

I'm not saying he be a very integral part of an effective running attack. At 30, he's not going to be an every down back if he wants to stay productive. I think 1000 yards is a horrible benchmark anyways (its only 66 yards a game). The fact is though, with few exception rb's tend to lose a step at 30. I have said I think he was the best back in free agency and that I think that he can have a productive year. I'm just responding to people who predict 1200+ yards... I don't see it happening.

Mike

Texanmike02
07-27-2007, 12:03 PM
I don't think you understood what he was saying...

Backs that rely on quickness and being able to outrun everyone are going to have more trouble being effective when they turn 30 because they are naturally going to lose some of that quickness and speed....

Ahman isn't an Eddie George or Earl Campbell type back so I don't really get your point...

If anything he's closer to Curtis Martin...

I understood what you were saying, I was being a sarcastic bastard. I apologize :D

Mike:texflag:

Overalls
07-27-2007, 12:33 PM
I think it's also important to note that he didn't play much his first few years in the league, and he didn't have those crazy 400 carry seasons like Eddie George or some other guys had. So he has less mileage than many others when they hit 30. I don't expect him to be the 1800 yard back he was in 03, and to be honest, I don't want him to be because that probably means we're relying too much on him and not spelling him enough.




To back up what your saying.

Green had 61 carries in 98 and 99 Combined. He played in all 16 games so it isn't like he was hurt.

Also he has only had more than 300 carries twice, in 2001 and 2003.

It's not like he is 33 or 34. He turned 30 five months ago. We aren't looking for him to be around in five years. We just need a couple good years out of him to help us get over the .500 road block.

badboy
07-27-2007, 12:46 PM
Kubes said last night that he knows what Green can do. He said the other backs will get the reps. if we are going to trust the coaches to choose the O. and D. schemes, we should trust them on their player evaluations until facts prove them wrong. Green is the man, but all the eggs are not in one basket. This is the case at every position, except punter and kicker.

gtexan02
07-27-2007, 12:54 PM
It's all downhill from about age 30 on. Bone density decreases, maximum lung capacity decreases, organ efficiency decreases, the body starts losing its ability to regenerate cells, and neurological processes slow down. You always hear about how age 30 is bad for athletes - well these are some reasons why.


This is highly generalized, highly misleading stuff. There is no certain age when all these biological factors suddenly start to decrease. Its a slow and steady decline throughout your entire adult life. There is no magic number for anyone.

gtexan02
07-27-2007, 12:55 PM
To back up what your saying.

Green had 61 carries in 98 and 99 Combined. He played in all 16 games so it isn't like he was hurt.

Also he has only had more than 300 carries twice, in 2001 and 2003.

It's not like he is 33 or 34. He turned 30 five months ago. We aren't looking for him to be around in five years. We just need a couple good years out of him to help us get over the .500 road block.

And, frankly, WR. If AJ goes down, we are dead

HJam72
07-27-2007, 02:02 PM
And, frankly, WR. If AJ goes down, we are dead

What is AJ? 26? ...and one of the biggest, toughest WRs in the game. He's not going down. I just hope he isn't retired by the time this team goes to a Superbowl.

Texans_Chick
07-27-2007, 02:09 PM
And, frankly, WR. If AJ goes down, we are dead

Actually, though we are not there yet, I think Kubiak is trying to make a team of interchangable parts. That instead of a star system where if one guy goes out, your whole season is screwed.

Don't have the depth to be there yet though.

Tailgate
07-27-2007, 02:15 PM
To back up what your saying.

Green had 61 carries in 98 and 99 Combined. He played in all 16 games so it isn't like he was hurt.

Also he has only had more than 300 carries twice, in 2001 and 2003.

It's not like he is 33 or 34. He turned 30 five months ago. We aren't looking for him to be around in five years. We just need a couple good years out of him to help us get over the .500 road block.

To back you up on backing him up.

Look at Tiki Barber.. the man didnt really take full load until his fourth season...and excelled after 30. And Fred Taylor? For playing in 9 seasons... the man barely has over 2,000 attempts. He averaged 5.1 yards per carry last season and over 1,000 yards. Warrick Dunn had 4.0 yards per carry and over 1,100 yards and is not far over the 2,000 attemps in his career. Thomas Jones is 30, and I will bet that he has at least 1 or 2 more 1,000 yards seasons in him barring injury considering he only has 1,300 attempts in his entire career.

Sure, getting older definitely hurts. But it also helps and can offset a bit if you did not have a huge load earlier in your career.

ObsiWan
07-27-2007, 02:20 PM
I'm not saying he be a very integral part of an effective running attack. At 30, he's not going to be an every down back if he wants to stay productive. I think 1000 yards is a horrible benchmark anyways (its only 66 yards a game). The fact is though, with few exception rb's tend to lose a step at 30. I have said I think he was the best back in free agency and that I think that he can have a productive year. I'm just responding to people who predict 1200+ yards... I don't see it happening.

Mike

Well, in that case, I might have to agree with you. Plus, I really don't think that one number is all that important as long as the running game is functional.

DBCooper
07-27-2007, 08:03 PM
You're right. Allow me to change my predictions:

Schaub becomes the first QB to pass for 6000 yards in a season.

Green becomes the first person to pass for 2000, rush for 3000 and have 1000 receiving yards.

AJ will have 4000 receiving yards.

After we beat the Cheifs by a record 146 points every team will fear our mighty Texans and petitions the league office to have the games played on xbox on rookie mode.

Nah, I enjoy looking at things objectively. Why does everyone missinterpret my opinion for negative? Is it not possible to be excited (as I am) about the future of this team without recognizing the shortcomings of today? To each their own I suppose.

You're free to disagree but the fact that he's run for more than 1200 yards 2 or 3 times in his career, combined with his age and recent injuries lead me to believe he's not going to get 1200 yards this year. I am not sure he's even going t break 1000 yards.

As for being a fan, I was a fan even when they were calling them the roughnecks, I think you'll see me around for a while.

Mike

I don't want you to go anywhere Mike, I just want you to have some fun. Prolonged negativity is bad. It's obvious that you care.

Most of the people on this board know the uphill battle, there is very little unrealistic optimism.

You have great skills when it comes to stats, use them to show we are improving as a team every now and again.

the wonger need food
07-27-2007, 08:05 PM
And, frankly, WR. If AJ goes down, we are dead

Yeah, just like the Patriots without David Givens and Deion Branch.

Texanmike02
07-27-2007, 09:06 PM
I don't want you to go anywhere Mike, I just want you to have some fun. Prolonged negativity is bad. It's obvious that you care.

Most of the people on this board know the uphill battle, there is very little unrealistic optimism.

You have great skills when it comes to stats, use them to show we are improving as a team every now and again.

That's the thing though. I think we have improved tremendously. Unfortunately that's hard to prove right now because the data just isn't there yet. As "negative" as I am, I'm so upbeat. I think its going to be amazing really. We're going to get to watch some very exciting players grow up here. But I was around for 05, and people were HYPED up. At first it was like a riot. Then it was like a wasteland. I even drank the kool aid. Then I went back and looked at the previous season. Really looking at it. And we were in a bad way all around. Statistically speaking, fundamentally. The Cleveland game wasn't the beginning, it was the end.

I think though, that this team is different. You can see a definite pattern in both drafting and FA signing. You can see a vision. Bring young guys in and have vets to mentor them. You didn't see that with the previous regime.

Mike

brakos82
07-27-2007, 09:11 PM
I think though, that this team is different. You can see a definite pattern in both drafting and FA signing. You can see a vision. Bring young guys in and have vets to mentor them. You didn't see that with the previous regime.

I'm not even sure Casserly knew what "mentor" means. :bat:

DBCooper
07-27-2007, 09:13 PM
That's the thing though. I think we have improved tremendously. Unfortunately that's hard to prove right now because the data just isn't there yet. As "negative" as I am, I'm so upbeat. I think its going to be amazing really. We're going to get to watch some very exciting players grow up here. But I was around for 05, and people were HYPED up. At first it was like a riot. Then it was like a wasteland. I even drank the kool aid. Then I went back and looked at the previous season. Really looking at it. And we were in a bad way all around. Statistically speaking, fundamentally. The Cleveland game wasn't the beginning, it was the end.

I think though, that this team is different. You can see a definite pattern in both drafting and FA signing. You can see a vision. Bring young guys in and have vets to mentor them. You didn't see that with the previous regime.

Mike

I agree, this team is different.

I don't see Green as the long term solution (like someone else pointed out), but he definitely is an upgrade. We also need some young guys to step up and make sure we have the depth if anything were to happen to Green.

ObsiWan
07-27-2007, 09:21 PM
I'm not even sure Casserly knew what "mentor" means. :bat:

Heck no he didn't or he wouldn't have dismantled the experience base we had in our '04 team - "no players over 30", that has got to be the "stupidest thing I've ever heard an NFL GM say.

The Pencil Neck
07-27-2007, 09:53 PM
But I was around for 05, and people were HYPED up. At first it was like a riot. Then it was like a wasteland. I even drank the kool aid. Then I went back and looked at the previous season. Really looking at it. And we were in a bad way all around. Statistically speaking, fundamentally. The Cleveland game wasn't the beginning, it was the end.


I wasn't on any Texans boards before the Mario draft.

But, I think I sent you a spreadsheet showing Carr's stats in 04. Take a look at around the Denver game in week 9. Something happened right about that point. Prior to that point, he was averaging 274 ypg, 9.17 yards per attempt and 66% completions. He had 9 TD's and 5 INTs. After that game, He averaged 171 ypg, 6.28 ypa, and 57% completions. He had 7 TD's and 9 picks.

I don't know if defensive coordinators caught on to his weaknesses like they had with Mirer or if he took a hit that rattled him or what. But it really looks like something happened at about that point. He's averaged about 170 ypg since then.

Like you, I was really expecting 05 to be the breakout year. That was a tough year.

the wonger need food
07-27-2007, 10:02 PM
Take a look at around the Denver game in week 9. Something happened right about that point. Prior to that point, he was averaging 274 ypg, 9.17 yards per attempt and 66% completions. He had 9 TD's and 5 INTs. After that game, He averaged 171 ypg, 6.28 ypa, and 57% completions. He had 7 TD's and 9 picks.

I don't know if defensive coordinators caught on to his weaknesses like they had with Mirer or if he took a hit that rattled him or what. But it really looks like something happened at about that point. He's averaged about 170 ypg since then.

This is exactly what I've been saying since that game and no one would listen. It's been a big myth that David Carr's 2004 was great. He played well the first 8 games and was terrible in the second half of that season. He went a span of about 30 games with (1) 200+ yard game.

Here's his journal where he talks about that game. Little did we know at the time that it was the beginning of the end...

http://www.nflplayers.com/players/player.aspx?id=32977&section=journal

"Nothing else you can really say. I really didn’t see this coming."

Texanmike02
07-28-2007, 01:52 AM
I wasn't on any Texans boards before the Mario draft.

But, I think I sent you a spreadsheet showing Carr's stats in 04. Take a look at around the Denver game in week 9. Something happened right about that point. Prior to that point, he was averaging 274 ypg, 9.17 yards per attempt and 66% completions. He had 9 TD's and 5 INTs. After that game, He averaged 171 ypg, 6.28 ypa, and 57% completions. He had 7 TD's and 9 picks.

I don't know if defensive coordinators caught on to his weaknesses like they had with Mirer or if he took a hit that rattled him or what. But it really looks like something happened at about that point. He's averaged about 170 ypg since then.

Like you, I was really expecting 05 to be the breakout year. That was a tough year.
I'm not verifying this with anything because I just don't know how really other than going back and watching the film but didn't we have several injuries from week 7 - 9? It seemed to me like we never made adjustments to the game plan.

Also looking back, if DC was being told where to throw the ball, it could have been that teams just figured that out. That he was locked on a receiver. Again I can't verify this really its just always been the impression I was under.

Mike

ChildressTitanMan
07-28-2007, 04:00 AM
Actually, though we are not there yet, I think Kubiak is trying to make a team of interchangable parts. That instead of a star system where if one guy goes out, your whole season is screwed.

Don't have the depth to be there yet though.

I'm beginning to think your getting there though. There are Offence questions about players like Green & you'll find out the answers to them soon enough. If the pieces fit though next year you'll finally be able to consolidate & get some of that needed depth.

Don't you guys lose something like $30 in dead money off your cap next year?

Texanmike02
07-28-2007, 04:24 AM
I'm beginning to think your getting there though. There are Offence questions about players like Green & you'll find out the answers to them soon enough. If the pieces fit though next year you'll finally be able to consolidate & get some of that needed depth.

Don't you guys lose something like $30 in dead money off your cap next year?

yep, we're the 49'ers of next year

ChildressTitanMan
07-28-2007, 04:42 AM
I'm beginning to think your getting there though. There are Offence questions about players like Green & you'll find out the answers to them soon enough. If the pieces fit though next year you'll finally be able to consolidate & get some of that needed depth.

Don't you guys lose something like $30 in dead money off your cap next year?

:ohsnap: I mean't $30 million.

cuppacoffee
07-28-2007, 09:27 AM
This is exactly what I've been saying since that game and no one would listen. It's been a big myth that David Carr's 2004 was great. He played well the first 8 games and was terrible in the second half of that season. He went a span of about 30 games with (1) 200+ yard game.

Here's his journal where he talks about that game. Little did we know at the time that it was the beginning of the end...

http://www.nflplayers.com/players/player.aspx?id=32977&section=journal

"Nothing else you can really say. I really didnít see this coming."


Strange (not really) that out of the entire article you chose that quote.

Why not use this quote:

I think we can win every game we play. We have a good squad, we have guys that are going to give effort, we have a team that's steadily growing on both sides of the ball, adapting to a new scheme and just trying to put it all together for gameday.

Rhetorical question.


:coffee:

the wonger need food
07-28-2007, 09:43 AM
Strange (not really) that out of the entire article you chose that quote.


Rhetorical question.


:coffee:


Because I distinctly remember the interviews with him after this shellacking. He sounded completely shell-shocked and it carried over to the rest of his career.

Vinny
07-28-2007, 09:54 AM
guys...I know we all love David Carr, but this isn't a David Carr thread unless you make it one.

I'm not worried about a number of 30. Shaun Alexander and Fred Taylor are both 30 and both teams will not cut either back I predict.....From Tiki Barber to Ahman Green...if you are in good enough shape and you have the right body you can play into your 30's, Signed, Roger Clemens

ObsiWan
07-28-2007, 10:02 AM
What's the big deal about playing past the age of 30?? I did it.

Signed,

Julio Franco.
-------------------

You TELL 'em, Julio!
- George Blanda

The Pencil Neck
07-28-2007, 11:51 AM
I'm not verifying this with anything because I just don't know how really other than going back and watching the film but didn't we have several injuries from week 7 - 9? It seemed to me like we never made adjustments to the game plan.

Also looking back, if DC was being told where to throw the ball, it could have been that teams just figured that out. That he was locked on a receiver. Again I can't verify this really its just always been the impression I was under.


This is very interesting. Read these three recaps and note the change in tone:

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/recap/NFL_20041031_JAC@HOU
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/recap/NFL_20041107_HOU@DEN
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/recap/NFL_20041114_HOU@IND

I'm starting to believe that the defensive coordinator in Denver figured out what Carr & the Texans were doing or Carr's problem either with reading blitzes or something like that. Then other defensive coordinators took notice and knew how to attack Carr after that. It's interesting that they say that Carr took a shot right at the beginning of the Indy game and that the bad Indy defense suddenly looked like the 85 Bears.

I don't see any other injuries mentioned in that period. I had once thought that Carr took a shoulder injury at some point and from that point he stopped throwing deep with accuracy and power. I mean, except for rainbows, I can't remember how long it's been since I've seen a really long dart thrown like he did back in his first couple of years. But... whatever... water under the bridge.... time to move on.

:fans:

The Pencil Neck
07-28-2007, 11:51 AM
guys...I know we all love David Carr, but this isn't a David Carr thread unless you make it one.


Sorry.

cuppacoffee
07-29-2007, 12:49 AM
guys...I know we all love David Carr, but this isn't a David Carr thread unless you make it one.

We do?...:fib

He started it. :neener:....:D

:jk:

Actually I moved on a long time ago. ;)

:coffee: