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Wolf
07-19-2007, 08:04 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7026076?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=5

Unit-by-unit analysis

Quarterback: Starter — Matt Schaub. Backups — Sage Rosenfels, Jared Zabransky.

The Texans made their biggest move in the offseason by parting ways with David Carr after five losing seasons. They traded two second-round draft picks for Schaub, who spent the past three seasons as the Falcons' backup to Michael Vick. He comes in with only two starts in his career, but high expectations. The Texans wanted to find a quarterback with poise in the pocket and good leadership. They are confident Schaub brings both. The offense will have to be tweaked to play toward his strengths though. He is not as much of a runner as Carr was, and the offense often has their quarterbacks rolling out to the left and right. Schaub won't be asked to do that as often as Carr was.

Rosenfels returns as a quality backup who is tailor-made for this offense. He has great pocket presence and a terrific understanding of the schemes. Undrafted rookie Zabransky chose the Texans. Because of his respected college career and the fact the Texans sought him as one of their top free agents after the draft, it is likely that the Texans will carry a third quarterback this season. Last season, they only carried two and kept one on the practice squad. He has the mobility that would likely make him a solid fit in this system down the road.

Running backs: Starters — RB Ahman Green, FB Vonta Leach. Backups — RB Ron Dayne, RB Wali Lundy, FB Jameel Cook, RB Chris Taylor, RB Samkon Gado.


I thought that was a staple in Denver's offense...anywho... maybe some Sherman influence mixed into this offense and part of the aka "Gulf Coast Offense" ;)

Wolf
07-19-2007, 08:14 PM
Tight end: Starter Owen Daniels. Backups Mark Bruener, Jeb Putzier.

Owen Daniels was critical in the offense through the first half of last season. He proved to be an every-down type of tight end. He was an effective blocker and also showed good speed and great hands. He was able to get into the middle of the field, stretch defenses and make big plays. In the second half of the season, Daniels disappeared though. Defenses were able to take him out of the game, and an injury to his shoulder eventually landed him on the sidelines. His health is the biggest key to his success this season.


according to KFFL.com ,it is reported Owen is healthy now :heh:

Wolf
07-19-2007, 08:29 PM
trying to lump all the previews together

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/texans/home.htm

Training camp goals.

1. Settle the starting left tackle.
2. Improve defensive line.
3. Establish the run game.


and it has more detail in those items

Texans Horror
07-19-2007, 09:30 PM
Interesting. This is probably the most I've seen dedicated to the left tackle and Spencer's recovery:


The Texans enter camp hopeful that Charles Spencer will be able to return from a serious knee injury he suffered in Week 2 of last season. His rehab has been exceptional, but there is concern regarding the cartilage around the injury. Doctors are unsure if it remains intact after the injury, and they will find out when they see how the knee reacts to practicing.

If Spencer is unable to return to his starting form by the time the season opens, the Texans will have to decide if Ephraim Salaam still has the capabilities of playing every down. Last season, Salaam played through a slew of injuries and will do the same this year if given the opportunity. Jordan Black was a free agent the Texans picked up as insurance in case Spencer and Salaam are both unable to go.

Second-year tackle Eric Winston, currently slated to start on the right side, will be given reps on the left to see if he is capable of moving back to his more natural position he played in college.

Besides talking about a good rehab, though, it doesn't say much that we don't already know (Salaam/Black carry the load; try Winston there, too). At least we know the Texans have a series of increasingly degrading contingency plans behind a left tackle who only played two or three games last year.

Rex King
07-19-2007, 09:34 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7026076?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=5



I thought that was a staple in Denver's offense...anywho... maybe some Sherman influence mixed into this offense and part of the aka "Gulf Coast Offense" ;)

I think it's Kubiak adjusting the scheme to the personnel - both he and Schaub said something to that effect. Just like although mixing in more power running may have been Sherman's influence (letting Wand, who was arguably the best zone blocker, go), they may also have found they didn't have the hogs to run zone. idonno:

Maybe they'll do rollouts less, but maybe they'll be more effective this year with a better running game and less predictability. Besides that one TD to Daniels against the Jags, they were kind of painful to watch.

Nothing new, but that's link's a really good overview. I'm just impressed they got all of their facts straight.

brakos82
07-19-2007, 09:54 PM
I'm just impressed they got all of their facts straight.

Me too. Somebody outside of Houston actually watches us. :splits:

threetoedpete
07-20-2007, 09:29 AM
VN find Mr. Wolf.

Now that guy is a football writer. Well it looks as though they're going to make up in numbers what they cannot make up in tallent. They got Free safty canidates and OLT canidates stacked up like a cord of wood. I'm not dimissing Erick at OLT out of hand. But I'll be surprised if he makes that kind of leap in one off season.

Double Barrel
07-20-2007, 10:31 AM
The Texans wanted to find a quarterback with poise in the pocket and good leadership. They are confident Schaub brings both.


ahhhhhhh!!!... :joker:

TexansSeminole
07-20-2007, 05:46 PM
I think it is interesting how he says that we won't roll Schaub out as much? I don't understand, didn't he do that pretty well in Atlanta?

Runner
07-20-2007, 06:18 PM
The Texans wanted to find a quarterback with poise in the pocket and good leadership. They are confident Schaub brings both.
ahhhhhhh!!!... :joker:

Tackle Charles Spencer ... emerged last season as a solid leader ...

oooooooooooooh!!!


Weaver will be the steady, reliable leader on the end.


ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!

At least Weaver's played in more than a couple of games.

threetoedpete
07-21-2007, 11:25 AM
I think it is interesting how he says that we won't roll Schaub out as much? I don't understand, didn't he do that pretty well in Atlanta?

Well I'm not banging the guy. And I certainly am not tring to start another ykw thread....but he isn't John Elway. He is a Good QB and the switch needed to be made.... but they aren't going to run 6-8 bootlegs a quarter with the TE draging across the formation like they ran with you know who. There're not going to put him in space one on one with a wild card DE. They aren't going to do it. There's a big difference in 4.7 forty speed and 5.3 forty speed. Kubes isn't about to risk his new toy forcing him to do things that aren't his strength to his skill set. And running in space isn't one of MS's strengths. He isn't Joe Nameth, but he isn't Steve Young either.

The Pencil Neck
07-21-2007, 11:48 AM
Well I'm not banging the guy. And I certainly am not tring to start another ykw thread....but he isn't John Elway. He is a Good QB and the switch needed to be made.... but they aren't going to run 6-8 bootlegs a quarter with the TE draging across the formation like they ran with you know who. There're not going to put him in space one on one with a wild card DE. They aren't going to do it. There's a big difference in 4.7 forty speed and 5.3 forty speed. Kubes isn't about to risk his new toy forcing him to do things that aren't his strength to his skill set. And running in space isn't one of MS's strengths. He isn't Joe Nameth, but he isn't Steve Young either.

6-8 bootlegs a quarter? Did that ever happen with YKW? I remember them running 1-2 a game, maybe. Offhand, I remember 2 in the Colts game (which is the only one I still have recorded.)

Vinny
07-21-2007, 11:55 AM
You don't have to be fast to be a wco QB...just smart and have decent feet. Not being fast never hurt Joe Montana. Carr ran himself into lots of sacks because he had issues reading defenses and reading the DE on his roll outs.

Double Barrel
07-21-2007, 12:22 PM
I think the ability to read defenses and make pre-snap adjustments will make a big difference in getting the ball out quickly. A QB doesn't need to run fast if he's got a quick release and knows how to use a pocket. Hopefully our line will be decent enough to give him a couple of seconds to plant his feet and throw.

HJam72
07-21-2007, 12:25 PM
6-8 bootlegs a quarter? Did that ever happen with YKW? I remember them running 1-2 a game, maybe. Offhand, I remember 2 in the Colts game (which is the only one I still have recorded.)

It happened, but most of them were unplanned, and many unnecessary. :shades:

threetoedpete
07-21-2007, 02:32 PM
I think the ability to read defenses and make pre-snap adjustments will make a big difference in getting the ball out quickly. A QB doesn't need to run fast if he's got a quick release and knows how to use a pocket. Hopefully our line will be decent enough to give him a couple of seconds to plant his feet and throw.

And I agree with all of that. But he sin't going to put MS on the edge with out protection. And yes PN go re watch the games they did. All season long in '06. The play book will change ...just a tad. I'm not saying it's a bad thing. And Vinny yes YKW ws so shell shocked that he was ineffective with plays in the pocket. That coupled with the fact it was just about the only thing in the arsonal that YKW could run and be sucsessfull, in the end the DE's were simply ignoring the fake dive.

I'm not in the meetings , but the waggle is pretty much down the tubes with MS . They are not going to gamble with the guy. They aren't going to put him alone and on the edge with a guy who pretty much is going to guess that we may be running the waggle and there for his best option is to ignor the fake and see how deep he can plant MS into the turf. My point is, MS does not have the foot speed to run out of trouble on the edge. I'm not argueing he is not a good QB. The original point was why are they saying what they are saying. He isn't going to win a foot race with many DEs or rush linebackers. Again, he isn't Steve Young or John Elway. That fact doesn't make him a bad QB. It just means there are certain things he can not do well. He is deffinatly an upgrade at QB. Not argueing that at all.

threetoedpete
07-21-2007, 02:59 PM
6-8 bootlegs a quarter? Did that ever happen with YKW? I remember them running 1-2 a game, maybe. Offhand, I remember 2 in the Colts game (which is the only one I still have recorded.)

PN, the waggle is a deceptive play where the Fb & RB simulate the dive, usually off tackle on the right side. The QB reverse pivots, puts the ball on his hip and the left side blocks down to the right simulating the same thing they do on the right off takle dive. The qb puts the ball on his hip and when the right DE chases the play to his left, also known, at least when I played as sucking eggs inside, the QB is all alone in the left flat with a clear , unobstructed veiw of the left flat. If the TE is draggin correctly, he too is all alone in the left flat also with the time to turn is hips up feild. It is not just "a boot-leg". It is the waggle. And yes we ran the devil out of it last season. And no we ain't going to run the devil out of it this season.

BattleRedToro
07-21-2007, 03:01 PM
He isn't Joe Nameth, but he isn't Steve Young either.

You meant Joe Namath, and more specifically Joe Namath after his knee injuries and subsequent surgeries. Before his injuries Joe Namath was a fine athlete, with legendary Alabama head coach Paul " Bear" Bryant refering to Namath as " the greatest athlete I ever coached." His surgeries were part of the infancy of sports medicine and helped lead to the more advanced surgeries that players have available today. Had the current surgeries been available to Namath back then, there is no telling what he might have accomplished.

The Pencil Neck
07-21-2007, 03:17 PM
PN, the waggle is a deceptive play where the Fb & RB simulate the dive, usually off tackle on the right side. The QB reverse pivots, put the ball on his hip and the left side blocks down to the right simulating the same thing they do on the right off takle dive. The qb puts the ball on his hip and when the right DE chases the play to his left, also known, at least when I played as sucking eggs inside, the QB is all alone in the left flat with a clear , unobstructed veiw of the left flat. If the TE is draggin correctly, he too is all alone in the left flat also with the time to turn is hips up feild. It is not just "a boot-leg". It is the waggle. And yes we ran the devil out of it last season. And no we ain't going to run the devil out of it this season.

Pete, I know what a waggle is. A waggle is a form of a bootleg. A bootleg is the name of the family of plays where the QB rolls out. Different offenses call these things different things but it's basically a roll out, a bootleg.

And we did not run it as often as you make out. I'll go through the last Colt game tonight and count them. There is no way we ran 24-32 Waggle's in that a game; we only had 23 pass plays. According to your claim, we ran 384 Waggles over the course of the season but we only had 481 pass plays the entire season. That's just ridiculous.

threetoedpete
07-21-2007, 03:48 PM
You meant Joe Namath, and more specifically Joe Namath after his knee injuries and subsequent surgeries. Before his injuries Joe Namath was a fine athlete, with legendary Alabama head coach Paul " Bear" Bryant refering to Namath as " the greatest athlete I ever coached." His surgeries were part of the infancy of sports medicine and helped lead to the more advanced surgeries that players have available today. Had the current surgeries been available to Namath back then, there is no telling what he might have accomplished.

I agree and let it so be recorded. But at the end he needed a sun dail to time his forties. Now MS is by no means that slow. But he isn't going to win a foot race with Babins either. Anyone thinks he will is posting shear emotion and no brains.

And PN if you're posting we only ran two a game, it was easy to see why I would be mistaken in your football knowledge. And there for why I was compelled to waist the band wideth with the discription. My bad.

The Pencil Neck
07-21-2007, 06:01 PM
And PN if you're posting we only ran two a game, it was easy to see why I would be mistaken in your football knowledge. And there for why I was compelled to waist the band wideth with the discription. My bad.

All I said was that I only remember us running it a couple of times a game. Do you stand by the statement that we ran the waggle 6-8 times A QUARTER?

I only have the last Colts game recorded but I will go through and count the plays. But I can absolutely assure you that we did not run the waggle 6-8 times in each of those 4 quarters I have recorded.

And are you sure you want to get personal and start talking about people's knowledge of football? Especially after making that particular claim?

edo783
07-21-2007, 08:49 PM
Smart slower running will beat fast dumb running everytime and that is probably what we have in our new QB.

The Pencil Neck
07-22-2007, 02:16 AM
So, I took a look at the last Colts game. I see the actual waggle (or various variations of rollouts) being run 4 times in the whole game and all of those were in the first half.

BUT. TTP, what we have here might be a failure to communicate. Were you counting the waggle as well as the FAKE of the waggle? If that's the case, then I could agree with you that we could have that many waggles (and fake waggles) per quarter and I tried to count the number of times that the waggle was faked. But I failed.

I had never really paid much attention to what Carr was doing after handing off the ball before. It was hard to tell when he was trying to fake the waggle because when he handed the ball off, he didn't really sell the waggle. Most times, he took a very shallow angle after the handoff that didn't look like the more acute angle he was taking when he was really running the waggle. Also, he has a tendency to hand the ball off and then look back at the RB to see if he's going to fumble. I had never noticed before. So it was hard to tell.

But, even with that, I don't think you're going to see that play called any less because of Schaub's footspeed. But we're just going to have to wait and see.

edo783
07-22-2007, 08:36 AM
It was hard to tell when he was trying to fake the waggle because when he handed the ball off, he didn't really sell the waggle. Most times, he took a very shallow angle after the handoff that didn't look like the more acute angle he was taking when he was really running the waggle. Also, he has a tendency to hand the ball off and then look back at the RB to see if he's going to fumble. I had never noticed before. So it was hard to tell..

Not selling a fake of any sort was a major problem for Carr.

TK_Gamer
07-22-2007, 03:06 PM
as far as my knowledge a "waggle" IS a fake, so I'm not really sure how you would fake a fake, but in general terms, a waggle is nothing more than a more elaborate form of a "play action fake" and the elaborate posturing just allows the QB to get a little space and put himself at the wrong angle for the edge pass rush. YNW didn't do it well because he couldn't sell a glass of water in the desert. It's funny I even remember color commentary guy being so impressed the rare times that he DID sell the fake. then YKW would be out of position, try to correct it and trip over his own lineman trying to get out of the imminent path of the pass rusher. I think we will be much safer would a good 5 step drop and quick release that Shaub reportedly possesses. I figure they will do some form of a rollout a couple times a game just to keep the defense wondering when it might happen.

Wolf
07-22-2007, 03:17 PM
I liked the guy that we dare not mention, but sealed the deal IMO was a game that was actually televised (maybe against the Jags or colts) but he did the staple play he faked well, rolled out and had the defense completely fooled and as he rolled out to the bottom of the screen, I was thinking "that reminded me of Denver and Elway"(playwise) and as YKW kept rolling , I then thought, here comes a long pass or a pass over the middle.... and I am still waiting for that throw, because next thing I know YKW, waited to long, defensive end (or LB) caught up with YKW and YKW ended up running out of bounds for a one yard loss.


I wish him the best and I think the Texans took the gunslinger out of him with our handling of him because he wasn't the same guy from the first year or even the first game. but that one play gave me an everlasting impresson of YKW.. I know there are more issues than that, (i.e. did the WR's run the routes right or able to get open), but that is my impression that is embedded in my mind now

DocBar
07-22-2007, 03:36 PM
Not selling a fake of any sort was a major problem for Carr.

He faked being a starting QB for 5 yrs....:backsout:

The Pencil Neck
07-22-2007, 04:19 PM
as far as my knowledge a "waggle" IS a fake, so I'm not really sure how you would fake a fake, but in general terms, a waggle is nothing more than a more elaborate form of a "play action fake" and the elaborate posturing just allows the QB to get a little space and put himself at the wrong angle for the edge pass rush. YNW didn't do it well because he couldn't sell a glass of water in the desert. It's funny I even remember color commentary guy being so impressed the rare times that he DID sell the fake. then YKW would be out of position, try to correct it and trip over his own lineman trying to get out of the imminent path of the pass rusher. I think we will be much safer would a good 5 step drop and quick release that Shaub reportedly possesses. I figure they will do some form of a rollout a couple times a game just to keep the defense wondering when it might happen.

The Waggle starts with a play action fake but to make the waggle work, you have to look like you're doing it on the normal run play. On the waggle, you fake the hand-off; on a regular run play, you make the hand off and fake like you didn't. You have to do the same thing on the running play that you do when you run the waggle or the defense knows the difference between the waggle and the regular run. It's like Favre always faking a pass of some sort after he hands off. So, when you're running a regular running play, the QB needs to peel off quickly and start towards the sideline and look downfield for his receivers. On the plays I looked at, YKW sold it on a few plays early in the game.