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Koolaid Time
07-17-2007, 04:10 PM
2 counts relating to dog fighting... US District Court, Eastern District of Virginia.

Details soon!

:splits: :splits: :splits: :splits: :splits:

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
07-17-2007, 04:16 PM
BREAKING - Michael Vick indicted by Federal Grand Jury on charges associated with dogfighting

July 17, 2007 04:07 PM


A Federal Grand Jury in Richmond has indicted Michael Vick on one count of Conspiricy to Transport Dogs over State Lines for Dogfighting.

Details of this indictment are still coming out.

http://www.wavy.com/Global/story.asp?S=6753469

Porky
07-17-2007, 04:18 PM
:mail: :elmo:

:hunter: :hunter: :hunter:

Texan_Bill
07-17-2007, 04:20 PM
I guess Brakos was right about Dante Culpepper!!

He needs a team, and 'a' team needs him....

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
07-17-2007, 04:26 PM
Papers, filed earlier this month by federal authorities in U.S. District Court in Richmond, noted that dog fights have been sponsored by "Bad Newz Kennels" at the property since at least 2002.

Fifty-four animals were recovered from the property during searches in April, along with a "rape stand," used to hold dogs in place for mating; an electric treadmill modified for dogs; and a bloodied piece of carpeting, the documents said.

During a June search of the property, investigators uncovered the graves of seven pit bulls that were killed by members of "Bad Newz Kennels" following sessions to test whether dogs would be good fighters, the documents said.

Vick has claimed he rarely visits the Surry County home and was unaware of any criminal enterprise.


http://www.11alive.com/news/article_news.aspx?storyid=100236

Tedc
07-17-2007, 04:27 PM
Poor Vick.


It is a dog eat dog world and he is wearing milkbone shorts.


(I love that saying and I have always wanted to say it but never found the right time....Seems appropriate now)

texanmojo
07-17-2007, 04:34 PM
From MSNBC...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19814494/

"RICHMOND, Va. - A federal grand jury in Virginia indicted Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick on Tuesday in its investigation of illegal dog fighting.
Vick and three others are charged with violating federal laws against competitive dog fighting, procuring and training pit bulls for it and conducting the enterprise across state lines."

I guess they really wish they didn't let Schaub go! :splits:

Texan_Bill
07-17-2007, 04:39 PM
Poor Vick.


It is a dog eat dog world and he is wearing milkbone shorts.


(I love that saying and I have always wanted to say it but never found the right time....Seems appropriate now)

Ted is en fuego today!!!

brakos82
07-17-2007, 04:40 PM
I must-a been mad at the Falcons at some point if they're in this much trouble.

Silver Oak
07-17-2007, 04:40 PM
Poor Vick.


It is a dog eat dog world and he is wearing milkbone shorts.


(I love that saying and I have always wanted to say it but never found the right time....Seems appropriate now)

"poor Vick"??? You gotta be kidding me. If, and it looks more certain now, he was involved in dogfighting, I hope they bury this jerk alive.

Cruelty to animals....what a jackoff.

GuerillaBlack
07-17-2007, 04:48 PM
DDDDDDDAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMMNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!

I didn't think this was going to happen. I thought he was going to get off easy.

Khari
07-17-2007, 04:50 PM
yay! :woot2:

Errant Hothy
07-17-2007, 04:51 PM
So how long till Roger issues his edict?

HOU-TEX
07-17-2007, 05:03 PM
Check out what this Poindexter cat is saying. I'm beginning to really dislike this Poindexter guy. IMO, the feds should look into him and the direction of his investigation before they took over.:bat:

"What is foreign to me is the federal government getting into a dogfighting case," Poindexter said. "I know it's been done, but what's driving this? Is it this boy's celebrity? Would they have done this if it wasn't Michael Vick?"

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2940065

Joe Texan
07-17-2007, 05:09 PM
Poor Vick.


It is a dog eat dog world and he is wearing milkbone shorts.


Ted, I think you meen poor starving puppies that this deranged thug of a football player owned. Scoot over packman.

I can have no sympathy for a man who makes his kind of jack and does something this illegal.

He will be showering with some different teamates. Don't drop the soap.

jlam
07-17-2007, 05:35 PM
Here's a link to the actual indictment paperwork. There's some pretty nasty details included in there. Executing dogs by means of hanging, strangulation, and electrocution? Seriously now.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0717072vick1.html

Koolaid Time
07-17-2007, 05:41 PM
Here's a link to the actual indictment paperwork. There's some pretty nasty details included in there. Executing dogs by means of hanging, strangulation, and electrocution? Seriously now.

Unfortunately, Vick will get off rather light compaired to the horrific nature of his crime.

Under Federal Sentencing Guidelines he gets a maximum 6 years in the federal pen and a $350,000.00 fine.

Too bad they can't bring the "rape stand" to his cell there at Club Fed and give eveyone in cellblock a chance to ride him...

Texan_Bill
07-17-2007, 05:43 PM
Here's a link to the actual indictment paperwork. There's some pretty nasty details included in there. Executing dogs by means of hanging, strangulation, and electrocution? Seriously now.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0717072vick1.html

Thanks for the link.... I liked this part: "..... and MICHAEL VICK, also known as "Ookie", did knowingly....."

281
07-17-2007, 05:48 PM
OOKIE!!! haha

Kaiser Toro
07-17-2007, 06:04 PM
I have never understood folks who are in Vick's situation, with so much to lose, to leave themselves exposed like this, nor the folks who love it when a name of record may serve some time and, consequently, get into a Deliverance frenzy bordering on voyeuristic fantasy.

In my opinion this is the straw that broke Vick's back and has assured himself a ban for the year. He has destroyed his brand name and has damaged the NFL's brand name as this is news even if it were not Vick. I may have to go visit the Falcons board.

Second Honeymoon
07-17-2007, 06:05 PM
ookie dokie Vick. say byebye to the NFL and your $$ and say hello to a penitentiary. what a loser. couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

it sounds like one of his 'boys' rolled over on him. i applaud the guy(s) for not being the patsy for this coddled little scumbag. I hope Vick is suspended immediately and that would send the message that scumbags arent allowed in the NFL.

so much for Chicken Little errr Clayton saying he wouldn't get indicted a few weeks back. I bet the Feds leaned on some of the 3 other indictees and got the info on Vick.

i bet they wish they had Schaub now....btw the Falcons message board is just off the hook right now...the sky is falling...the end is nigh

gwallaia
07-17-2007, 06:05 PM
When you got guys named "P-Funk" and "Ookie", you know there is going to be trouble.

I wonder if the NFL will not allow Vick's jersey to be sold with the name "Ookie" on the back like they did with "Ron Mexico"

awtysst
07-17-2007, 06:21 PM
Ok, so Vick has been indicted, but what does that actually mean? He wasnt charged(as of yet), so what does this mean from a legal aspect and a nfl standpoint?

Silver Oak
07-17-2007, 06:23 PM
Here's a link from the AOL message board. Lots, and lots of "whitey" posts and "if he was white" posts. Almost a laughable situation except I believe many minorities actually feel that way...then it becomes very pitiful.

http://messageboards.aol.com/aol/en_us/articles.php?boardId=149730&func=3&channel=Sports

Hardcore Texan
07-17-2007, 06:26 PM
Have you guys seen the interview on ESPN with the anonymous source that claims Vick is a heavyweight?

Is it just me or does anyone else think that anonymous source is Michael Irvin? His voice is altered, but the sillouete looks and the way he pauses and phrases things remind me so much of Irvin.

Just speculating here...anyone else get that impression?

alphajoker
07-17-2007, 06:33 PM
I couldn't finish reading the article...I seriously got sick to my stomach when I read the part about how they killed the dogs. I just walked over to my chocolate lab and gave her a hug. This guy, if found guilty, deserves whatever it is he has coming to him.

GuerillaBlack
07-17-2007, 06:34 PM
ookie dokie Vick. say byebye to the NFL and your $$ and say hello to a penitentiary. what a loser. couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

it sounds like one of his 'boys' rolled over on him. i applaud the guy(s) for not being the patsy for this coddled little scumbag. I hope Vick is suspended immediately and that would send the message that scumbags arent allowed in the NFL.

so much for Chicken Little errr Clayton saying he wouldn't get indicted a few weeks back. I bet the Feds leaned on some of the 3 other indictees and got the info on Vick.

i bet they wish they had Schaub now....btw the Falcons message board is just off the hook right now...the sky is falling...the end is nigh

So many people are probably on their board. I can't get in to read the comments.

nunusguy
07-17-2007, 06:41 PM
The Falcons put all of their hopes for 2007 in the hands of Michael Vick. Despite Tuesday's indictment of Vick in a Virginia dogfighting probe, the Falcons have no choice but to stand by him. The reason: Atlanta traded Vick's possible replacement, Matt Schaub, to Houston. At the time, it seemed to be the wise thing, and an indictment doesn't necessarily make that situation any different.
*
Vick is the face of the franchise and a sports icon in the Southeast. Whether he's guilty or innocent, Vick would have to prove the federal government made a major mistake in indicting him to salvage his reputation throughout the area.
Cases such as these are hard to prove. Nevertheless, whatever evidence is presented against Vick is going to cause permanent damage. Dogfighting is an illegal and disgusting sport. A sports star can't be linked to such activity. Watch how fast sponsors and advertisers bail on Vick now.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=2940188

Hagar
07-17-2007, 07:19 PM
From the Falcon's Message Board -

Atlanta77 says "WHY COULDN'T THIS STORY BREAK YESTERDAY!! I just bought season tickets yesterday, and if I had known this, I wouldn't have bought season tickets. This means a suspension is coming for sure, and that likely means this season isn't going to be too promising"

Reservoirdog says "Great, now Vick and his one count of "conspiracy to transport dogs across state lines for the purpose of dogfighting" will forever be linked to OJ when he beats the charge. If he gets suspended for this, the prosecution trying to at least get him into a courtroom being the cause, it will seriously suck. "

Crumplerfan1 says "Why is everone so suprised? The end result of a witch hunt is usually trying to burn the witch whether they've actually done anything wrong or not."

NawlinSaintFan response to Crumplerfan1 says "Get real man... come to grips.... the man has federal charges filed against him now. If this was anyone but a superstar QB.... they'd already be in Federal ###### pounding prison."

Funny, I haven't seen a lot about the Schuab trade yet.

Interesting reading though. Y'all should check it out.

Hardcore Texan
07-17-2007, 07:22 PM
From the Falcon's Message Board -

Atlanta77 says "WHY COULDN'T THIS STORY BREAK YESTERDAY!! I just bought season tickets yesterday, and if I had known this, I wouldn't have bought season tickets. This means a suspension is coming for sure, and that likely means this season isn't going to be too promising"

Reservoirdog says "Great, now Vick and his one count of "conspiracy to transport dogs across state lines for the purpose of dogfighting" will forever be linked to OJ when he beats the charge. If he gets suspended for this, the prosecution trying to at least get him into a courtroom being the cause, it will seriously suck. "

Crumplerfan1 says "Why is everone so suprised? The end result of a witch hunt is usually trying to burn the witch whether they've actually done anything wrong or not."

NawlinSaintFan response to Crumplerfan1 says "Get real man... come to grips.... the man has federal charges filed against him now. If this was anyone but a superstar QB.... they'd already be in Federal ###### pounding prison."

Funny, I haven't seen a lot about the Schuab trade yet.

Interesting reading though. Y'all should check it out.


Paying attention to this type of news is like staring at the sun or a car wreck, you know it doesn't do you any good but you just can't help it.

Tedc
07-17-2007, 07:33 PM
"poor Vick"??? You gotta be kidding me. If, and it looks more certain now, he was involved in dogfighting, I hope they bury this jerk alive.

Cruelty to animals....what a jackoff.

Sorry, maybe I should have inserted this :sarcasm: to help spell it out for you. I didn't feel it was needed but, then again, this is message board mentality.

Koolaid Time
07-17-2007, 07:54 PM
Funny, I haven't seen a lot about the Schuab trade yet.

Interesting reading though. Y'all should check it out.

Falcons Owner Arthur Blank is presently in Africa, taking his wife on a safari for her 40th Birthday. I bet he wishes right now his high caliber hunting rifle was trained on a certain other "animal" about now..

As for Schaub... How about this... We trade him BACK to the Falcons...

....For their #1 and #2 picks FOR THE NEXT THREE YEARS...

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
07-17-2007, 08:00 PM
How about we dangle Sage Rosenfels in their face for a mere 2nd round pick. lol

primadox
07-17-2007, 08:05 PM
When you got guys named "P-Funk" and "Ookie", you know there is going to be trouble.

I wonder if the NFL will not allow Vick's jersey to be sold with the name "Ookie" on the back like they did with "Ron Mexico"

I'm sure that's coming soon. I did go to the NFL shop and created one with 'Ookie', and it didn't stop me from adding it to my cart (I didn't buy it, however! :) ). It's just a matter of time before they stop allowing that, just like they did with the 'Ron Mexico' jerseys...

Koolaid Time
07-17-2007, 08:06 PM
In my opinion this is the straw that broke Vick's back and has assured himself a ban for the year. ...

Too bad he will be suspended for the year. I was looking forward to watching the Falcons playing on the road and listening to all the fans doing the "Who let the Dogs Out???? WOOF WOOF WOOF" Cheer.

Koolaid Time
07-17-2007, 08:09 PM
Have you guys seen the interview on ESPN with the anonymous source that claims Vick is a heavyweight?

Is it just me or does anyone else think that anonymous source is Michael Irvin? His voice is altered, but the sillouete looks and the way he pauses and phrases things remind me so much of Irvin.

Just speculating here...anyone else get that impression?

Sounds like Irvin alright... nasally sound and runny nose and all...

But Dogfighting isn't Irvin's gig.. He was always into the cocaine and strippers crowd..

primadox
07-17-2007, 08:10 PM
Too bad he will be suspended for the year. I was looking forward to watching the Falcons playing on the road and listening to all the fans doing the "Who let the Dogs Out???? WOOF WOOF WOOF" Cheer.

And you can add in the sounds of "OOOOOOOOO-KIE!!!!!!" :splits:

Silver Oak
07-17-2007, 08:11 PM
Sorry, maybe I should have inserted this :sarcasm: to help spell it out for you. I didn't feel it was needed but, then again, this is message board mentality.

My apoligies then.

Sometimes communication is lost in the written word.

Koolaid Time
07-17-2007, 08:15 PM
How about we dangle Sage Rosenfels in their face for a mere 2nd round pick. lol

I think Culpepper will end up in Atlanta..

But Atlanta's GM now rises to the stupidity level of Charlie Casserly for not seeing this coming and taking the necessary steps to minimize any damage..

The initial raid on Vick's property was April 25. The NFL Draft was April 28. ...

Marcus
07-17-2007, 09:48 PM
But Atlanta's GM now rises to the stupidity level of Charlie Casserly for not seeing this coming and taking the necessary steps to minimize any damage.

Aw for Christ's sake! Get real. You want to put the blame on the GM for not having a crystal ball in his back pocket????

More message board mentality!:yap

Ryan
07-17-2007, 09:49 PM
bring on joey harrington for them:gun:

Porky
07-17-2007, 09:59 PM
This sub-human scum should never see an NFL field again. I won't be happy with anything less than a lifetime ban. And he can take all his dog fighting low life knuckle dragger friends in the NFL and NBA with him.

ccdude730
07-17-2007, 10:11 PM
i wonder if the commish will have an announcement before falcons TC?

i believe he should be banned starting with camp that way if a long suspension is placed on him - atlanta would at least be able to have another QB getting some reps

HardcoreTexan
07-17-2007, 10:22 PM
Hope he gets what he deserves if he actually did what they are saying he did.:pirate:

Heath Shuler
07-17-2007, 10:33 PM
Hope he gets what he deserves if he actually did what they are saying he did.:pirate:

My thoughts exactly.

TexansLucky13
07-17-2007, 11:12 PM
Someone has finally pulled out the cleaning supplies to get rid of this scum.

Schaub the decks!

:shades:

Second Honeymoon
07-17-2007, 11:24 PM
i wonder if the commish will have an announcement before falcons TC?

i believe he should be banned starting with camp that way if a long suspension is placed on him - atlanta would at least be able to have another QB getting some reps

yeah, the NFL should act fast if they are going to act at all. its only fair to the rest of the Falcons and their fans.

Koolaid Time
07-17-2007, 11:27 PM
Aw for Christ's sake! Get real. You want to put the blame on the GM for not having a crystal ball in his back pocket????

More message board mentality!:yap

The raid was the 25th.. the Draft the 28th..

Considering all the other trouble Vick has been in this year.... the "magic" water bottle, flipping off the fans at the Georgia Dome, the pre-draft visit to Goddell's office, the meeting with the owner.... after the raid on his property I would have been concerned to the point that I'd drafted a QB in the later rounds, or at least signed a REAL free agent QB..

TexanSam
07-17-2007, 11:30 PM
I do not feel sorry at all for Vick. After reading that indictment, if it's true then he deserves prison time. What a piece of scum.

As for the Schaub deal, I'd gladly trade him back for their 1st and 2nd round picks the next two years. Throw in Alge Crumpler too.

TD
07-17-2007, 11:52 PM
Check out what this Poindexter cat is saying. I'm beginning to really dislike this Poindexter guy. IMO, the feds should look into him and the direction of his investigation before they took over.:ba
"What is foreign to me is the federal government getting into a dogfighting case," Poindexter said. "I know it's been done, but what's driving this? Is it this boy's celebrity? Would they have done this if it wasn't Michael Vick?"

Wow! did he really call him boy?!?

Somebody would probably be offended if Poindexter wasn't planning on letting Vick off the hook. (which is why the feds came in genius).

Looks like there are multiple informants here. Vick is screwed.

Too bad for the Falcons, I like 'em, but they should have seen this coming.

Carr Bombed
07-18-2007, 12:03 AM
Funny, I haven't seen a lot about the Schuab trade yet.

Interesting reading though. Y'all should check it out.

I just figured out why and you would not believe it.

THEIR FREAKING MODS ARE CENSORING ALL SCHAUB CONTENT!!!....... This isn't a Joke.

I had a couple of comments in a Schuab thread (absolutely no inflamatory comments whatsoever, honest, I behaved. :redface: , believe it or not I kinda feel sorry for their fans. anyways everybody was civil so there was absolutely no reason to delete the thread) and then all of a sudden the thread was gone. Their "Vick is God" Mods are white washing the whole damn thing over there.

Vick can absolutely do no wrong in those peoples eyes.......... It is actually kinda sad. Do you know they actually have a thread over there thats praising Michael Vick for killing dogs....... why, because the Pittbull breed is a bad breed and Michael Vick is doing us all a service by destroying the breed. Those freaking tards don't even realize people like MICHEAL VICK, CREATED the bad Pitts.

Before Pitt Bulls, became mainstream "Gansta/fighting dogs", Pittbulls were known as loyal pets that also served this country greatly during war. The most recognized dog in the US Military is a Pitt Bull. Even Patton always had his trusted Bully next to him.......... Bet rest assure folks Mike Vick is doing all he can to eradicate us of these beast. :rolleyes:

Koolaid Time
07-18-2007, 12:05 AM
Too bad for the Falcons, I like 'em, but they should have seen this coming.

The only winners in this whole mess are Culpepper and Arthur Blank, the Falcons Owner...

Culpepper- He is in the driver's seat as far as naming his price to play for the Falcons. Joey Harrington has already shown that he can't make it in the NFL as a starter. Harrington is going to be ticked that he will be backing up Culpepper AGAIN.

Blank- He was just given grounds to void that insane contract he gave to Vick.

rollinstone18
07-18-2007, 12:24 AM
Remember that phrase, "INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY" ?


I'm a dog-lover though, so anyone found guilty of hanging, electrocuting, or bodyslaming a dog (or any pet for that matter) to death - in my opinion - should cower in a jail cell for a long time.

Koolaid Time
07-18-2007, 12:39 AM
Remember that phrase, "INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY" ?

That phrase has relevance when it comes to a sentence in the Federal Pen... but it has ZERO relevance when it comes to Roger Goodell suspending him for a year even before the trial.

Gambling was involved in the "alleged" crime. CBA allows the Commisioner to suspend a player prior to trial in that instance, because of the intregity of the game...

Carr Bombed
07-18-2007, 01:25 AM
Remember that phrase, "INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY" ?


I'm a dog-lover though, so anyone found guilty of hanging, electrocuting, or bodyslaming a dog (or any pet for that matter) to death - in my opinion - should cower in a jail cell for a long time.

Yeah I believe in the phrase "innocent till proven guilty", However I don't believe a guy owned a damn house that he made regular visits to and mysteriously..... 55 DOGS WERE HIDDEN, along with rape stands, blood stained pits, and freshly dug graves, or the fact that he had no clue what the hell was going on.

Vick either knew what the hell was going on or he was "Corky" masquerading around as a NFL quarterback. A house is a man's domain, I like to believe a man knows what the hell is going on in his house, especially a house thats not that far from where he lives.

There is also a difference between a man pleading his innocence and a man basically saying...... "prove it". Mike Vick is basically saying...... "prove it", while he's lawyered up and hiding behind them.....

barrett
07-18-2007, 04:05 AM
Michael Vick was indicted on dog fighting charges.

http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/ATL/10259637

I know it's "only and indictment" and no guilt has been proven but I can't imagine how the falcons fans must be feeling right now. I wonder how Matt Schaub is feeling. I wonder if at this moment he's glad to be here or if he wishes he were still in Atlanta since it's looking like he'd could have been starting for either team.

p.s. animal cruelty is horrible. whether Vick was involved or not, anyone who takes part in that sh#t should be dealt with accordingly.

One more reason I feel proud to be a Texans fan. It seems like a locker room full of pretty classy guys.

Lucky
07-18-2007, 06:33 AM
I wonder how Matt Schaub is feeling. I wonder if at this moment he's glad to be here or if he wishes he were still in Atlanta since it's looking like he'd could have been starting for either team.

I think Schaub has to be glad he's far away from what promises to be a circus. Arthur Blank, Rich McKay, and Bobby Petrino are the guys with regrets.

The1ApplePie
07-18-2007, 07:24 AM
At least Brian Brohm knows where he will be drafted next year.

mancunian
07-18-2007, 08:00 AM
depends if they sign Culpepper:gun:

DBCooper
07-18-2007, 08:05 AM
He's a Texan now.

chicagotexan2
07-18-2007, 08:07 AM
This sub-human scum should never see an NFL field again. I won't be happy with anything less than a lifetime ban. And he can take all his dog fighting low life knuckle dragger friends in the NFL and NBA with him.

I concur (if he really did do this). I also hope is he does continue his career that at some point when he can longer perform that someone does the same thing to him and his worthless low life dirtbag crew.

Texan_Bill
07-18-2007, 08:17 AM
At least Brian Brohm knows where he will be drafted next year.

AND, Dante Culpepper knows where he will have a job this year.

HoustonFrog
07-18-2007, 08:29 AM
Sorry if this is a repeat because I haven't read three pages but the thing that bothers me most, besides dog fighting and the tools they used being disgustingly horrible, is that someone can be so stupid to have this going on while they make so much money. I heard this on the radio this morning and it is so true..if you had a 100 mil contract, you'd make every effort to stay out of trouble..cabs and drivers to clubs to avoid DWI, staying away from trouble. They are saying this ring started in 2001...when Vick signed in the league. Even if he wasn't representing the dogs, if he had any knowledge and stood by, it just makes him juyst as culpable and dumb as his brother when it comes to legal issues. I hope the guy is out of the league for a bit.

Daunte Culpepper, your prayers are answered..here is your money!!

BigTimeTexanFan
07-18-2007, 08:57 AM
Even "IF" Vick had no idea what was going on(though I can't believe that for a second), he is the owner of the property and he should be held responsible for the ongoings there just like everybody else.

swtbound07
07-18-2007, 09:29 AM
he won't be suspended, and won't see a second of jailtime. Sorry for the crowd lusting for blood.

Texans Horror
07-18-2007, 09:40 AM
I'm sure the Falcons fans would gladly give back those two second-rounders for Matt. They are probably also rightfully sweating bullets over the possibility of Culpepper/Harrington, which did such a wonderful job last year in Miami. I wonder if they would be willing to trade those second rounders back for our newest QB, El Z?

Hopefully the Falcons don't wait for the commissioner on this one. The team is built around Vick, and Vick is in complete freefall. The front office needs to act soon and decisively, whether that is making Harrington the #1 QB or bringing in a new guy.

Koolaid Time
07-18-2007, 09:42 AM
he won't be suspended, and won't see a second of jailtime. Sorry for the crowd lusting for blood.

Come on....surely you jest???

If "Ookie" isn't suspended, then every other NFL team with a player on suspension for bad conduct will be screaming bloody murder at Goodell...


Listening to the feed on Atlanta's 680 AM "The Fan" this morning leads me to believe that Vick will be suspended by the team, if not given his outright release, as soon as Falcons Owner Arthur Blank returns today from Africa.

HOU-TEX
07-18-2007, 09:56 AM
he won't be suspended, and won't see a second of jailtime. Sorry for the crowd lusting for blood.

If it ends up going to court more than likely it wouldn't be heard until next year anyways. That said, I'd have to agree with you.

BUT..unlike you, I want him out of the league. He is and always will be a scumbag. Why you have so much manlove for him is a mystery.

Heath Shuler
07-18-2007, 09:57 AM
he won't be suspended, and won't see a second of jailtime. Sorry for the crowd lusting for blood.

You might want to lay off the predictions, your magic 8 ball ainít what it used to be.

GuerillaBlack
07-18-2007, 10:00 AM
Their forum is a joke.

Porky
07-18-2007, 10:14 AM
he won't be suspended, and won't see a second of jailtime. Sorry for the crowd lusting for blood.

Has the Wacky weed finally zapped too many brain cells? :slap:

HoustonFrog
07-18-2007, 10:15 AM
he won't be suspended, and won't see a second of jailtime. Sorry for the crowd lusting for blood.

This has the feel of "Carr will be here next year." :)

BTW, the Feds don't indict without reason. In fact they convict 95% of those indicted because they only go into these things with enough evidence to do the job.

swtbound07
07-18-2007, 10:19 AM
im offering an opinion, got no reason to think one way or another, except that he's freaking mike vick. You think that ray lewis can kill people and play, but vick is going away for killing dogs? i think not. leonard little anybody? Vick is not going to get anything more than a fine.

BigTimeTexanFan
07-18-2007, 10:26 AM
im offering an opinion, got no reason to think one way or another, except that he's freaking mike vick. You think that ray lewis can kill people and play, but vick is going away for killing dogs? i think not. leonard little anybody? Vick is not going to get anything more than a fine.

With a new commisioner who is taking action cleaning up the league's image, I can't see how he won't be suspended.

HoustonFrog
07-18-2007, 10:32 AM
im offering an opinion, got no reason to think one way or another, except that he's freaking mike vick. You think that ray lewis can kill people and play, but vick is going away for killing dogs? i think not. leonard little anybody? Vick is not going to get anything more than a fine.


Those were years ago. Goodall has suspended two guys already before convictions for doing less. What makes you think he will be laid back about a dog fighting ring that spanned multiple states and is a federal crime?

Koolaid Time
07-18-2007, 11:01 AM
AJC Reports that Falcons Owner is now meeting with team and NFL officials, and may have an official statement later this afternoon..

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/falcons/stories/2007/07/18/0718vicklegal.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab

Second Honeymoon
07-18-2007, 11:27 AM
im offering an opinion, got no reason to think one way or another, except that he's freaking mike vick. You think that ray lewis can kill people and play, but vick is going away for killing dogs? i think not. leonard little anybody? Vick is not going to get anything more than a fine.

haha you cant be serious? it doesn't matter who you are to the Feds. This isn't Miami Vice or New Jack City. This is real life. 95% conviction rate.

its GAME OVER for Vick and his only hope is that he gets to play a few games and get a few more gamechecks before the whole outhouse goes up in flames.

Personally because of his lying to the commish and for him being involved in illegal gambling, I think Goodell needs to go ahead and suspend the guy so that the Falcons don't have to do it themselves. The evil and inhumane activities he is unquestionably involved in are just off the chart. Vick and Co. are already playing the race card so I have no pity on them at all. Do the crime: Do the time.

Second Honeymoon
07-18-2007, 11:29 AM
AJC Reports that Falcons Owner is now meeting with team and NFL officials, and may have an official statement later this afternoon..

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/falcons/stories/2007/07/18/0718vicklegal.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab

yup Blank wants the NFL to do it so it doesnt alienate the Vick homers errr supporters within his fanbase. some people are so deluded they think that this is all because Vick is a black QB. Blank would be well served to not feed that troll.

Koolaid Time
07-18-2007, 11:37 AM
yup Blank wants the NFL to do it so it doesnt alienate the Vick homers errr supporters within his fanbase. some people are so deluded they think that this is all because Vick is a black QB. Blank would be well served to not feed that troll.

Atlanta already has a large "season ticket waiting list"... if a bunch of Vick supporters bail, there is a reserve to make up the difference.

swtbound07
07-18-2007, 11:43 AM
Atlanta already has a large "season ticket waiting list"... if a bunch of Vick supporters bail, there is a reserve to make up the difference.

those people are "waiting" to see vick. he is the draw in atlanta

gary
07-18-2007, 11:55 AM
Good it's about time a famous person gets indited I'm so sick of stars with money and there problems when people have there own

V3rm0nt3r
07-18-2007, 12:04 PM
You would think that Culpepper would look at Atlanta now but remember what Harrington did last year so I doubt the Falcons will consider him unless he agrees to cut his salary from last year in thirds. They also our second round pick next year so look for them to be dealing with teams with at least a decent QB.

Jacksonville?

threetoedpete
07-18-2007, 12:41 PM
Ok, so Vick has been indicted, but what does that actually mean? He wasnt charged(as of yet), so what does this mean from a legal aspect and a nfl standpoint?

Well I'm not a laywer. But there is an old saying around the court house, " you can get an indictment agaisnt a ham sandwich. " It means although they have compeling evedence to convince a grand jury to return an indictment, he is a ways away from a prision cell. The Key term in the nineteen pages is "conspiracy". If they can prove the conspiracy, and as someone above has posted, the trailer trash kin has indeed rolled over on him, in his trail, he's done. They got two eye wittnesses the only thing more damning would be video tape. Goodel isn't going to do anything untill the case gets ajudicated. He isn't stupid. And neither is Arthur Blank. You don't get to own NFL franchises or become commisioners of the NFL if you're stupid. There' a 100 mill (?) or so on a 120 million contract out there floating around. Neither is going to give Vick, if not guilty, a way to recoop this money. And if you believe anything belive this, neither of these guys will jump the shark and say their playing with dolphins. It's going to take a while and despite the temptation to hammer Vick ala Packman Jones, (Goodel) and (Blank), to get out from the QB who misses his recievers fifty percent of the time, both will let this thing play out. There will be tremendous presure on Goodel to treat Vick the same as Packman. The fact is this is Vick's first offense and nothing has been proven.

But if they got two who have rolled on him...and I jump to that conclusion because of the two different judges signing off on two different search warrants, they got him. Vick has to prove he owned the house and didn't know. That didn't work in WWII at the Neurinburg trail and it doesn't work in the twenty first centery court house. The only thing the Sargent Shultz "I knew nothing " defense will get you is a jail cell. The assitant attorney general for the south easteren district of Virgina must prove he not only knew, he propgated the criminal enterprise. I would like to offer some more on this subject. But the last time I tried, ala Maurice Clairrett, I got hit with the "R" card by lucky. So, suffice to say, it may take a village, but if your village has no moral foundation, the only thing you're going to produce is rats.

I don't know if Micheal Vick is a rat or not. What I do know is that he raced to plop down money from his first contract to creat Bad Newz Kennels. It might of been his thought that keeping his trailer trash kin buzy was worth the cost. And now, if innocent, he is just caught up in a very bad decidsion. Or, he is the degenerate human being some are supposing. Asst. AG of Virginia has litteraly put his life and career on the line with this case. I don't think he did that lightly. From my tree it looks as though we're not dealing with a lacross team run a'muck at a party on this one. They got enough for two warrants and an indictment. But just like the O.J. trial, this thing is going to play, sadly to say, right down racial lines. The gun is smoking but it hasn't hit the mark yet. It may take the bullet a year or more to find it's mark. Blank might just be smilling on this morning. He just might get a shot at Darrin McFaddin if this thing plays out right.

Charles Barkley caught a lot of flack for his "I"m not a role model" Nike commercial. I think this case will vindicat the chuckster once and for all. He was correct then. And that sentiment is correct today. The truth dosen't fade away. It always comes around and gets in your face again.

swtbound07
07-18-2007, 12:53 PM
haha you cant be serious? it doesn't matter who you are to the Feds. This isn't Miami Vice or New Jack City. This is real life. 95% conviction rate.

its GAME OVER for Vick and his only hope is that he gets to play a few games and get a few more gamechecks before the whole outhouse goes up in flames.

Personally because of his lying to the commish and for him being involved in illegal gambling, I think Goodell needs to go ahead and suspend the guy so that the Falcons don't have to do it themselves. The evil and inhumane activities he is unquestionably involved in are just off the chart. Vick and Co. are already playing the race card so I have no pity on them at all. Do the crime: Do the time.

innocent. until. proven. guilty. come back to me with a conviction.

HoustonFrog
07-18-2007, 12:54 PM
Well I'm not a laywer. But there is an old saying around the court house, " you can get an indictment agaisnt a ham sandwich. " It means although they have compeling evedence to convince a grand jury to return an indictment, he is a ways away from a prision cell. The Key term in the nineteen pages is "conspiracy". If they can prove, and as someone above has posted in his trail the trash kin has rolled over on him, he's done. They got two eye wittnesses the only thing more damning would be video tape. Goodel isn't going to do anything untill the case gets ajudicated. He isn't stupid. And nether is Arthur Blank. You don't get to own NFL franchises or become commisioners of the NFL if you're stupid. There' a 100 mill or so on a 120 million contract out there flaoting around. Neither is going to give Vick, if guilty, a way to recoop this money. And if you believe anything belive this, neither of these guys will jump the shark and say their playing with dolphins. It's going to take a while and despite the temptation to hammer Vick ala Packman Jones, Goodel and Blank, to get out from the QB who msses his recievers fifty percent of the time, both will let this thing play out. There will be tremendous presure on Goodel to treat Vick the same as Packman. The fact is this is Vick's first offense and nothing has been proven.

But if they got two who have rolled on him...and I jump to that conclusion becuse of the two different judges signing off on two different search warrants, they got him. Vick has to prove he owned the house and didn't know. The assitant attorney general for the south easteren district of Virgina must prove he not only knew, he propgated the criminal enterprise. I would like to offer some more on this subject. But the last time I tried, Maurice Calrrett, I got hit with the "R" card by lucky. So to suffice to say, it may take a village, but if your village has no moral fandation, the only thing you're going to produce is rats.

I don't know if Micheal Vick is a rat or not. What I do know is that he raced to plop down money from his first contract to creat Bad Newz Kennels. It might of been his thought that keeping his trail trash kin buzy was worth the cost. Or, he is the degenerate human being some are supposing. Asst. AJ of Virginia has litteraly put his life and carrer on the line with this case. I don't think he did that lightly. From my tree it looks as though we're not dealing with a lacross team run a'muck at a party on this one. They got enough for two warrants and an indictment. The gun is smoking but it hasn't hit the mark yet. It may take the bullet a year a more to find it's mark. Blank might just be smilling on this morning. He just might get a shot at Darrin McFaddin if this thing plays out right.

Federal indictments are a little different than regular indictments you might see at the County Courthouse. The Feds don't take the case to the GJ unless they feel they can win. That is why the win 95% of their cases. Richmond is particularly harsh when it comes to these things. They have multiple witnesses against him and I'm sure other defendants will roll. Read this article that just came out. I've been saying this all along but the Feds don''t screw around. People thinking this is just a way to get a celeb, etc don't know about the Feds and how they go about business.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2940312

swtbound07
07-18-2007, 12:56 PM
he is entitled to a trial by jury, correct? all it takes is one vick fan. Speaking as one, I wouldn't convict him. If there is one of me on the jury, he walks. Celebrity has its perks.

gary
07-18-2007, 12:57 PM
He's a gulity sitting duck

Goldensilence
07-18-2007, 12:59 PM
You would think that Culpepper would look at Atlanta now but remember what Harrington did last year so I doubt the Falcons will consider him unless he agrees to cut his salary from last year in thirds. They also our second round pick next year so look for them to be dealing with teams with at least a decent QB.

Jacksonville?

I wouldn't be surpised to hear Mark Brunell's name in the next few weeks with Jason Campbell pretty much taking over in Washington. I think Culpepper has his money i think he just wants a shot somewhere to prove both Minny and Miami lost out.

I don't think Atl will be targetting McFadden....Petrino will be looking for Brohm.

Far as Vick goes....I'll see how things pan out in the next few weeks before i makea solid judgement on the matter. I will say that things don't look too good for Vick and that this IS his career period. If charges do get leveled there's no rehabing his career in the NFL barring a miracle, even if he walks on the charges.

Texan_Bill
07-18-2007, 01:02 PM
Many Falcons fans turned on Ron a while back. Thats what cause such a ruckus up there when they dealt Schaub here. Many fans go to watch Vick.................to go up in flames. Which I think they just witnessed.

HoustonFrog
07-18-2007, 01:13 PM
he is entitled to a trial by jury, correct? all it takes is one vick fan. Speaking as one, I wouldn't convict him. If there is one of me on the jury, he walks. Celebrity has its perks.

Read the ESPN article. This is alot more severe than people are giving it credit for. You don't think co-defendants and the witnesses haven't already given them enough. He wouldn't walk with one dissenter. There would be a mistrial after a certain amount of time. They would then try and decide whether to retry it since double jeopardy had not attached. Overall, there would probably be a deal reached before this instead of losing all his money on attorneys. He is in serious trouble. This isn't bong residue at the airport.

Texan_Bill
07-18-2007, 01:18 PM
he is entitled to a trial by jury, correct? all it takes is one vick fan. Speaking as one, I wouldn't convict him. If there is one of me on the jury, he walks. Celebrity has its perks.

Let me understand correctly.... As a juror, you would vote this person to be innocent, irrespective of the facts of the case, just because you are a fan? -or- was that intended tongue in cheek?

Second Honeymoon
07-18-2007, 01:20 PM
he is entitled to a trial by jury, correct? all it takes is one vick fan. Speaking as one, I wouldn't convict him. If there is one of me on the jury, he walks. Celebrity has its perks.

haha you think a federal prosecutor would let a Vick fan on the jury? anyways, Vick fans are few and far between right about now. not everyone is as vapid and shallow as you. most people know right from wrong and don't let an ability to run fast with a football cloud their judgement in a courtroom setting.

Porky
07-18-2007, 01:25 PM
he is entitled to a trial by jury, correct? all it takes is one vick fan. Speaking as one, I wouldn't convict him. If there is one of me on the jury, he walks. Celebrity has its perks.

Do you actually read the stuff you post first, or do you just like to throw a bunch of crap onto the wall and see what sticks? :devilpig:

swtbound07
07-18-2007, 01:27 PM
Let me understand correctly.... As a juror, you would vote this person to be innocent, irrespective of the facts of the case, just because you are a fan? -or- was that intended tongue in cheek?

yeah, i'd let him walk.

Specnatz
07-18-2007, 01:29 PM
he is entitled to a trial by jury, correct? all it takes is one vick fan. Speaking as one, I wouldn't convict him. If there is one of me on the jury, he walks. Celebrity has its perks.

So basically you are saying you would committ a felony to let a guilty person walk because you like there celeberty status?

Congratz to you for admitting you are a criminal that just has not had the oppertunity to committ a crime yet. What respect I had for you just went out the window.

Seriously, I think you should just stop and leave this thread alone.


:shocked

:gun:

Second Honeymoon
07-18-2007, 01:29 PM
I wouldn't be surpised to hear Mark Brunell's name in the next few weeks with Jason Campbell pretty much taking over in Washington. I think Culpepper has his money i think he just wants a shot somewhere to prove both Minny and Miami lost out.

I don't think Atl will be targetting McFadden....Petrino will be looking for Brohm.

Far as Vick goes....I'll see how things pan out in the next few weeks before i makea solid judgement on the matter. I will say that things don't look too good for Vick and that this IS his career period. If charges do get leveled there's no rehabing his career in the NFL barring a miracle, even if he walks on the charges.

no doubt about it. cutting Vick may make it that much easier to have an opportunity to draft Brohm anyway....

Errant Hothy
07-18-2007, 01:29 PM
So according to the ESPN story posted above:

The government indictment discloses four witnesses who already have agreed to testify against him. If all three of his co-defendants join these four witnesses against Vick, he and his lawyers might suggest that he, too, should talk to the government about a deal that would minimize his time in jail.

According to the indictment, Vick was in the middle of everything from beginning to end. He purchased a vacant piece of property for $34,000, the indictment says. He then had sheds built for training dogs and staging fights and a fence erected to shield the operation from view. And finally, the indictment says, he had a two-story frame house with a basketball court put up as a residence for the people taking care of the dogs. If you believe the indictment, the Vick property had everything anyone could want in a dogfighting operation.

I'm starting to think that the fed's have built up a rock solid case, and that Vick will be lucky to get off with just an NFL suspension, even if it is a life-time ban.

Errant Hothy
07-18-2007, 01:31 PM
yeah, i'd let him walk.

So you would go to jail to let a douche-bag like Vick walk? I'm thinking that your priorities are seriously out of alignment.

Second Honeymoon
07-18-2007, 01:32 PM
yeah, i'd let him walk.

Sincerely,

A Troll

TexansLucky13
07-18-2007, 01:38 PM
he is entitled to a trial by jury, correct? all it takes is one vick fan. Speaking as one, I wouldn't convict him. If there is one of me on the jury, he walks. Celebrity has its perks.

Only someone as disgusting as Mike Vick would allow him to walk away knowing full well that he at very least was associated with dog fighting.

Second Honeymoon
07-18-2007, 01:39 PM
So according to the ESPN story posted above:





I'm starting to think that the fed's have built up a rock solid case, and that Vick will be lucky to get off with just an NFL suspension, even if it is a life-time ban.

yeah methinks that Vick needs to play ball with the Feds and fess up to what really went down. people can get a second chance but only if they do what it takes.

Public Apology. Real Remorse. Make Amends. Cooperate With Authorities.
Basically he just needs to act like a normal human being and stop murdering dogs. I hope that isn't asking too much.
For some reason, I think it might be asking too much of him.

Texan_Bill
07-18-2007, 01:40 PM
yeah, i'd let him walk.

lol... The youth of today never ceases to amaze me...

Hello anarchy!!

Specnatz
07-18-2007, 01:41 PM
lol... The youth of today never ceases to amaze me...

Hello anarchy!!


Sorry but I do not think this has anything to do with youth.

Intellect maybe but not youth.

Texan_Bill
07-18-2007, 01:43 PM
Sorry but I do not think this has anything to do with youth.

Intellect maybe but not youth.

Touche' Spec!! Either way, its a sad commentary on a small segment of our society.

swtbound07
07-18-2007, 01:43 PM
i like watching vick play football. dont' really care much about dogs. Seems pretty cut and dry to me. And if you think there won't be one vick fan on that jury just like me, your insane. I don't care what he did. it doesn't matter.

Texan_Bill
07-18-2007, 01:44 PM
i like watching vick play football. dont' really care much about dogs. Seems pretty cut and dry to me. And if you think there won't be one vick fan on that jury just like me, your insane. I don't care what he did. it doesn't matter.

Nothing wrong with that argument,......... well except for said dog fighting is ILLEGAL!!!

swtbound07
07-18-2007, 01:46 PM
and? a lot of things are illegal that i don't think should be.

Errant Hothy
07-18-2007, 01:47 PM
i like watching vick play football. dont' really care much about dogs. Seems pretty cut and dry to me. And if you think there won't be one vick fan on that jury just like me, your insane. I don't care what he did. it doesn't matter.

Except the fact that it was a crime.

Yup good thing those laws only apply to use normal folk.

And people say there isn't a class system in America.

Errant Hothy
07-18-2007, 01:48 PM
and? a lot of things are illegal that i don't think should be.

Just because you don't agree with the law does not mean you get to ignore it. C'mon man, you're smarter then this, right?

HoustonFrog
07-18-2007, 01:51 PM
i like watching vick play football. dont' really care much about dogs. Seems pretty cut and dry to me. And if you think there won't be one vick fan on that jury just like me, your insane. I don't care what he did. it doesn't matter.

AGAIN, the problem with your theory is that is still won't excuse him of what he is involved with and double jeopardy won't attach. I would have no doubts they would just retry him again and try even harder to squeeze out any loon Vick fans from the crowd in voir dire. I don't want to bring race into it but Elle above said that it is the South so there is going to be rabid football fans. There also might be rabid racists or dog lovers or old people or whatever. There may have been and probably were rabid conservatives when Libby was prosecuted. These guys don't bat 95% because of a guy in a Vick jersey wanting to jump off the jury panel and into his arms. In actuality, we have laws because it DOES matter. Your arguments just don't fit here. It is a sad case of hero worship over morals.

Hardcore Texan
07-18-2007, 01:51 PM
i like watching vick play football. dont' really care much about dogs. Seems pretty cut and dry to me. And if you think there won't be one vick fan on that jury just like me, your insane. I don't care what he did. it doesn't matter.

No wonder your defending Vick, you seem to have the same belief system.

swtbound07
07-18-2007, 01:52 PM
i think if you think a jury convicts michael vick of anything your insane. Evidence doesn't matter in our legal system, money does, and vick has a lot of it. he walks, yall scream

Second Honeymoon
07-18-2007, 01:54 PM
i like watching vick play football. dont' really care much about dogs. Seems pretty cut and dry to me. And if you think there won't be one vick fan on that jury just like me, your insane. I don't care what he did. it doesn't matter.

I can GUARANTEE you that a federal prosecutor will not let anyone on that jury that would ever conceivably let Vick's football ability and/or fame influence their judgement on said case. You can be a Falcons fan and/or NFL fan but no one with the indifference to right and wrong will get within 100 yards of that jury. This isn't paying a speeding ticket. This is federal courts, federal judges, and federal attorneys. This is the big leagues. There is a reason they have an over 95% conviction rate on their indictments. SWT is obviously just trolling and trying to be Contrarian of the Day. Congratulations on being the token Vick troll of this board.

Errant Hothy
07-18-2007, 01:54 PM
i think if you think a jury convicts michael vick of anything your insane. Evidence doesn't matter in our legal system, money does, and vick has a lot of it. he walks, yall scream

Yeah, run that theory by Ken Lay and Scooter Libby (who only got off because of a W pardon...don't think Vick can call in one of those.)

Texan_Bill
07-18-2007, 01:56 PM
and? a lot of things are illegal that i don't think should be.

Really doesn't matter what you think should or shouldn't be illegal, until the law changes its ILLEGAL...

If you knowingly let someone walk when they are guilty, than you have lied - under oath (which is also illegal), and deficated on our entire legal system and Country.

*Disclaimer before this thread gets highjacked* I know our legal system has its flaws, but as far as I am concerned its the best in the world....

swtbound07
07-18-2007, 01:56 PM
It's illegal. But, it's very popular in the South...obviously. SWT is probably not the only one thinking that it shouldn't be illegal. I think a lot of people need to expect Vick to get through it because he has fans and people in the South have a different culture than we have here or people in Cali have. You hear what I'm saying? This may not be a slam dunk in court. What Goddell does is another matter, but the public may not convict.


its not that i think it should be illegal or shouldn't. I just don't care about dogs. i dont' think vick gets convicted. Like it or not, athletes walk.

Texan_Bill
07-18-2007, 01:58 PM
It's illegal. But, it's very popular in the South...obviously. SWT is probably not the only one thinking that it shouldn't be illegal. I think a lot of people need to expect Vick to get through it because he has fans and people in the South have a different culture than we have here or people in Cali have. You hear what I'm saying? This may not be a slam dunk in court. What Goddell does is another matter, but the public may not convict.

We will ensure that the jury "of peers" is made up of 12 PETA members. Think they'll convict??

HoustonFrog
07-18-2007, 01:59 PM
It's illegal. But, it's very popular in the South...obviously. SWT is probably not the only one thinking that it shouldn't be illegal. I think a lot of people need to expect Vick to get through it because he has fans and people in the South have a different culture than we have here or people in Cali have. You hear what I'm saying? This may not be a slam dunk in court. What Goddell does is another matter, but the public may not convict.

Maybe he isn't but the South is full of alot of things, as I stated above, and here in Houston and Texas people are just as disgusted as most. I really don't think people grasp the severity of a federal indictment. Money and celebrity aren't going to come into play here with the evidence they put on. Voir Dire is made for getting rid of many of these people.

Texan_Bill
07-18-2007, 01:59 PM
its not that i think it should be illegal or shouldn't. I just don't care about dogs. i dont' think vick gets convicted. Like it or not, athletes walk.

What about me???


Signed,

Ray Carruth

threetoedpete
07-18-2007, 02:00 PM
Federal indictments are a little different than regular indictments you might see at the County Courthouse. The Feds don't take the case to the GJ unless they feel they can win. That is why the win 95% of their cases. Richmond is particularly harsh when it comes to these things. They have multiple witnesses against him and I'm sure other defendants will roll. Read this article that just came out. I've been saying this all along but the Feds don''t screw around. People thinking this is just a way to get a celeb, etc don't know about the Feds and how they go about business.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2940312

The only thing different about the two is that the federal AG guys are being groomed to be appellate judges, and supremes. They're suposed to be just a little smarter than the average prosecutor. I stand by what I posted. I agree with you in that they are not on a fishing expedition on this one. They got the goods in the bag. But again this thing is going to break down racial lines and all it takes, as SWT is posting, is one jurior to avoid Voir Dire. Only one. Doesn't matter how many are throwing MV to the wolves. It only takes one. And we currently do not prosecute purjury in this country.

HoustonFrog
07-18-2007, 02:00 PM
its not that i think it should be illegal or shouldn't. I just don't care about dogs. i dont' think vick gets convicted. Like it or not, athletes walk.

On DWIs, not federal charges based on the laws they spelled out. The only thing his money will get is top attorneys and they haven't gotten the Ken Lays and Skillings out of any trouble. Seriously, you need to think about this.

Errant Hothy
07-18-2007, 02:01 PM
its not that i think it should be illegal or shouldn't. I just don't care about dogs. i dont' think vick gets convicted. Like it or not, athletes walk.

Yup just like Tank Johnson, Ralph Sampson, Mike Tyson, Ray Carruth, Nate Newton, etc. None of them ever served a second of jail time. :gun:

Mr. White
07-18-2007, 02:01 PM
:fishing: Boy....SWT's getting some whoppers over here.

HoustonFrog
07-18-2007, 02:03 PM
The only thing different about the two is that the federal AG guys are being groomed to be appellate judges, and supremes. They're suposed to be just a little smarter than the average prosecutor. I stand by what I posted. I agree with you in that they are not on a fishing expedition on this one. They got the goods in the bag. But again this thing is going to break down racial lines and all it takes, as SWT is posting, is one jurior to avoid Voir Dire. Only one. Doesn't matter how many are throwing MV to the wolves. It only takes one. And we currently do not prosect purjury in this country.

:gun: AGAIN, one just hangs the jury for a mistrial. They can then prosecute again. It does not exonerrate him. So you really think he will want to take his chances again. He plays with the Feds and deals or they try him again probably. SWT told us it was in the bag that Carr was back, so I'll take my chances with him getting his wish here. His only hope is that a deal lets him throw himself on their mercy and he is under their grips for years. If they don't convicet him it won't be because of a Vick fan, it will be because they think that he had no involvement while owning the house.

swtbound07
07-18-2007, 02:03 PM
:fishing: Boy....SWT's getting some whoppers over here.

you just need the right bait.

HoustonFrog
07-18-2007, 02:04 PM
Yup just like Tank Johnson, Ralph Sampson, Mike Tyson, Ray Carruth, Nate Newton, etc. None of them ever served a second of jail time. :gun:


Thank YOU!!!!Sampson on federal child support charges.

Texan_Bill
07-18-2007, 02:04 PM
Thank YOU!!!!Sampson on federal child support charges.

Frog... did you want to go somewhere with that???............ Just askin'

Porky
07-18-2007, 02:05 PM
its not that i think it should be illegal or shouldn't. I just don't care about dogs. i dont' think vick gets convicted. Like it or not, athletes walk.


Ok, we know. You don't care about dogs. You also don't care about babies, infants, or pretty much any human or animal life but your own, unless it happens to interfere with your entertainment. We get it already. Now go away and enjoy your sad little life. :gun:

swtbound07
07-18-2007, 02:07 PM
Ok, we know. You don't care about dogs. You also don't care about babies, infants, or pretty much any human or animal life but your own, unless it happens to interfere with your entertainment. We get it already. Now go away and enjoy your sad little life. :gun:

my opinion belongs in this thread as much as yours.

threetoedpete
07-18-2007, 02:07 PM
I used to work in law, so I know that people walk all the time. He's gonna get kicked real hard by the NFL but I don't think he'll be convicted. He'll give up his assests before he sits behind bars.

If they get the conviction Elle two things will happen. Arthur Blank will void out MV's contract. And Goodel will slap a life time ban on him. He'll be toast and entertain bubba in the jail cell. He'll go from fighting dogs to being one...literally.

Second Honeymoon
07-18-2007, 02:08 PM
i think if you think a jury convicts michael vick of anything your insane. Evidence doesn't matter in our legal system, money does, and vick has a lot of it. he walks, yall scream

money doesnt matter. in fact, him having lots of money is actually a strike against him in this case. he doesnt get the sympathy of a disadvantaged youth who is in the dog fighting game because he can't find a job or didn't graduate high school.

vick was anointed a multi-millionaire and what was the first thing he did when he got paid? buy his mama a house? donate to his university? Nope, he started an illegal dog fighting clique and begain training and murdering dogs. That is like getting a key to the city and promptly shoving it up your nether regions. it just shows a level of disregard of the law and morality that is just reprehensible.

what can Vick's lawyer claim outside of the race card in defense of him? there is a money trail, a paper trail, and testimony against him by eyewitnesses and could be rolled on by his co-defendants. guy is toast. I do not necessarily think he will be put in federal prison but i do think he will have to serve some sort of restitution, admit guilt, and probably be suspended from the league for at least 1 season. A lifetime ban would be out of line imho unless more lurid details come out or if additional charges are levied.

this isn't Law And Order, this is real. $$ doesnt buy you leniency from the court. Only POWER does that and that only rarely works in criminal proceedings. Vick, although very wealthy, is not that powerful in this scenario. You can't buy off the Feds. local slack jawed attorney Poindexter? Maybe...but not a Fed.

oh wait...your trolling....nm :wink:

Texan_Bill
07-18-2007, 02:08 PM
my opinion belongs in this thread as much as yours.

Very true.... No matter how misguided it may be.

HOU-TEX
07-18-2007, 02:13 PM
:popcorn: at swt's :stirpot:

Vick needs to go away.

Specnatz
07-18-2007, 02:14 PM
It's illegal. But, it's very popular in the South...obviously. SWT is probably not the only one thinking that it shouldn't be illegal. I think a lot of people need to expect Vick to get through it because he has fans and people in the South have a different culture than we have here or people in Cali have. You hear what I'm saying? This may not be a slam dunk in court. What Goddell does is another matter, but the public may not convict.

Yes it is popular in certain parts of the south, but thank God most of those people do not register to vote or have criminal records so they can't vote so therefore they will not be called to serve on a jury.

HoustonFrog
07-18-2007, 02:14 PM
I used to work in law, so I know that people walk all the time. He's gonna get kicked real hard by the NFL but I don't think he'll be convicted. He'll give up his assests before he sits behind bars.


Elle, I'm an attorney now and people get in quite a mess with federal criminal charges. I don't think 95% is a good number when you are a defendant.

TexansLucky13
07-18-2007, 02:14 PM
its not that i think it should be illegal or shouldn't. I just don't care about dogs. i dont' think vick gets convicted. Like it or not, athletes walk.

Even if he walks clean out of that courtroom, he still has to face the commish. Goodell will tear him a new hole, I guaran-frikkin-tee you. Vick lied straight to his face.

Porky
07-18-2007, 02:15 PM
my opinion belongs in this thread as much as yours.

But mine is better than yours. :splits:

HoustonFrog
07-18-2007, 02:16 PM
Frog... did you want to go somewhere with that???............ Just askin'

No, SWT claims celebs get breaks in federal court. Ralph Sampson had federal charges put on him for lack of child support and he got jail time. I'm sure people thought he should pay the money and it would go away. BTW, this is the SAME court and region that Vick was indicted in...one of the toughest.

http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/whitecollarcrime_blog/2005/05/former_basketba.html

Texan_Bill
07-18-2007, 02:20 PM
No, SWT claims celebs get breaks in federal court. Ralph Sampson had federal charges put on him for lack of child support and he got jail time. I'm sure people thought he should pay the money and it would go ways. BTW, this is the SAME court and region that Vick was indicted in...one of the toughest.

http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/whitecollarcrime_blog/2005/05/former_basketba.html

I caught that, but you kinda shouted out Thank YOU!!!!Sampson on federal child support charges., like it was an answer to a trivial pursuit question that you missed... nevermind.



Anyway, back to topic another 'athlete' that spent time in prison was Mercury Morris to add to that list

Goldensilence
07-18-2007, 02:21 PM
i like watching vick play football. dont' really care much about dogs. Seems pretty cut and dry to me. And if you think there won't be one vick fan on that jury just like me, your insane. I don't care what he did. it doesn't matter.

I'll put it this way. Humans are very egocentric in their thinking for the most part when it comes to lives as in human life is valued far above anything else. When put up the spectrum in i would venture the defense would use a similar approach to the matter. Not saying its right or i agree with it. Because i do think it'd a sad commentary on how warped we've devolved to having fellow sentient beings fight each other to the death for our amusement.

I am however a bit astonished that someone made a positive remark about PETA seeing as the type is usually admonished here.

Mr. White
07-18-2007, 02:22 PM
No, SWT claims celebs get breaks in federal court. Ralph Sampson had federal charges put on him for lack of child support and he got jail time. I'm sure people thought he should pay the money and it would go ways. BTW, this is the SAME court and region that Vick was indicted in...one of the toughest.

http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/whitecollarcrime_blog/2005/05/former_basketba.html

So I guess we're not talking about some white collar resort prison. No, no, no! We're talking about federal POUND ME IN THE @$$ prison!

http://lagoonbug.homestead.com/files/michael_bolton.jpg

threetoedpete
07-18-2007, 02:23 PM
:gun: AGAIN, one just hangs the jury for a mistrial. They can then prosecute again. It does not exonerrate him. So you really think he will want to take his chances again. He plays with the Feds and deals or they try him again probably. SWT told us it was in the bag that Carr was back, so I'll take my chances with him getting his wish here. His only hope is that a deal lets him throw himself on their mercy and he is under their grips for years. If they don't convicet him it won't be because of a Vick fan, it will be because they think that he had no involvement while owning the house.

Well this trial(s) is going to cost a multipul millions to execute. If they keep getting hung juries, and with the recent incidendts comming out of California trials, one should hope that these guys could see the writting on the wall. At some point they will cut their losses. And yes, it's sad to be this cynical that multipul hung juries under over whelming evidence is a true proposition in an american court room. But , those are the facts in america to day. It is more improtant to be politically correct than to confront the truth. He won't throw himself on the mercy of the court. He does that the NFL is gone and so is the contract. If they don't convict him it means jurors igonred the facts and avoided voir dire.

Second Honeymoon
07-18-2007, 02:28 PM
So I guess we're not talking about some white collar resort prison. No, no, no! We're talking about federal POUND ME IN THE @$$ prison!

yup he is going to go into prison as Michael Vick but don't be surprised if he comes out walking bowlegged named Antoine or Bruce or Trixie.

swtbound07
07-18-2007, 02:30 PM
Well this trial(s) is going to cost a multipul millions to execute. If they keep getting hung juries, and with the recent incidendts comming out of California trials, one should hope that these guys could see the writting on the wall. At some point they will cut their losses. And yes, it's sad to be this cynical that multipul hung juries under over whelming evidence is a true proposition in an american court room. But , those are the facts in america to day. It is more improtant to be politically correct than to confront the truth. He won't throw himself on the mercy of the court. He does that the NFL is gone and so is the contract. If they don't convict him it means jurors igonred the facts and avoided voir dire.

or he is INNOCENT...but don't let that stand in your way of yoru presumption of guilt.

Second Honeymoon
07-18-2007, 02:32 PM
stop feeding the troll...

Texan_Bill
07-18-2007, 02:34 PM
or he is INNOCENT...but don't let that stand in your way of yoru presumption of guilt.

This wasn't a matter of him being innocent, this was a matter of you stating that you would let him walk if he was guilty. Thats what started this **** storm.

Texan_Bill
07-18-2007, 02:35 PM
stop feeding the troll...

Oooops, my bad.

HoustonFrog
07-18-2007, 02:35 PM
I caught that, but you kinda shouted out , like it was an answer to a trivial pursuit question that you missed... nevermind.



Anyway, back to topic another 'athlete' that spent time in prison was Mercury Morris to add to that list

Frustration my man..lol

Specnatz
07-18-2007, 02:35 PM
or he is INNOCENT...but don't let that stand in your way of yoru presumption of guilt.

Well considering you already said you would vote innocent no matter what the facts are, I think that is being completely hypocritical.


:potkettle:

Errant Hothy
07-18-2007, 02:36 PM
or he is INNOCENT...but don't let that stand in your way of yoru presumption of guilt.

Why do you care if he is innocent or not, according to you he should walk just because he's fun to watch on Sunday (and I'm assuming it's fun to watch him rush the ball, he's passing is down right hideous to watch at times. Oh but my bad that's his reciever's fault...Vick can do no wrong inyour eyes, right?)

HoustonFrog
07-18-2007, 02:37 PM
So I guess we're not talking about some white collar resort prison. No, no, no! We're talking about federal POUND ME IN THE @$$ prison!

http://lagoonbug.homestead.com/files/michael_bolton.jpg


LMAO..love that line and movie.

Hardcore Texan
07-18-2007, 02:41 PM
Well this trial(s) is going to cost a multipul millions to execute. If they keep getting hung juries, and with the recent incidendts comming out of California trials, one should hope that these guys could see the writting on the wall. At some point they will cut their losses. And yes, it's sad to be this cynical that multipul hung juries under over whelming evidence is a true proposition in an american court room. But , those are the facts in america to day. It is more improtant to be politically correct than to confront the truth. He won't throw himself on the mercy of the court. He does that the NFL is gone and so is the contract. If they don't convict him it means jurors igonred the facts and avoided voir dire.

Why captalize the word California and the letters NFL but not America or American? Just asking, not trying to be the grammar police or anything, curious if its inentional.

threetoedpete
07-18-2007, 02:42 PM
or he is INNOCENT...but don't let that stand in your way of yoru presumption of guilt.

They have everything but the video tape SWT. You're clinging to hope for your guy is comendable, but you need to go re read some of the posts. They'd still be fishing if they didn't have the goods. Federal prosecutors don't run for office. They are appointed. There is no good politcal reason for them to go after Vick. None. If anything, with the shape that Bush is in I gotta feeling the last thing they wanted to do is make a public spectical of a black man being ravaged by a federal court. Better go next year. I got a feeling that will be your last chance to see MV live in an NFL uniform.

swtbound07
07-18-2007, 02:44 PM
Actually Porky, SWT does care about babies and human life. When we got into the whole Vick thing in another thread, he stated that he thought lawmakers and cops should do more to protect humans, especially those. Go after real criminals. Dogs just didn't have the same priority for him.

I hope I parphrased you properly, Ben.

HoustonFrog, I know you are an attorney, but I almost became one. One case made me throw the idea out. It wasn't a Federal case but was linked to one. Some ass got through the jury and blew us away. I'd tell the story but it's too long winded. I just do not trust juries to always do the right thing. If I was Vick, my new career would be singing...as in like a bird to the Feds and writing, too! As in checks. Lot's of them for fines, setting up animal care facilities, free spay and nueter clinics for the entire state of VA, and other worthwhile things so my ass wasn't dressed in orange. But, if he fights it and gets jail time, he can always pen the script to the next jailhouse football movie and star in it with all the other NFL criminals.



thought you werent speaking ever since you found out how i feel about mr. reggie?

threetoedpete
07-18-2007, 02:53 PM
Why captalize the word California and the letters NFL but not America or American? Just asking, not trying to be the grammar police or anything, curious if its inentional.

I couldn't decide since i was using it as an adjective to describe a court room and since it wasn't the United States, whether it was proper. If I made an error I appologise. I took a shot and guessed wrong.

swtbound07
07-18-2007, 03:02 PM
Well, SWT won't be on that jury anyway, so....it's just his opinion.




Yeah, and I wasn't talking to you after the divorce and that Campbell jersey either. I happen to agree with you that someone with a spot in thier heart for Vick will avoid the voir dire trap and he'll walk. It's the way people view celebs these days. Given what I've seen Grisham write, anything is possible. Hell, I avoid jury duty like the plague and I take a well worn copy of The Runaway Jury anytime I get called and place a bookmark 3/4 of the way through. Once either side sees me reading intently, sees that I used to work in law, they kick my ass out in a hurry. It's a race to see who will disqualify me first. :)

yeah...pretty sure im not in the jury pool. im a grisham fan as well. i'd love to be on jury duty...justice depending on my current mood appeals to me. odd that your the one in this thread that agrees with me about how it will shake out.....i would have thought you would have been championing the pro-dog cause. life's funny.

HoustonFrog
07-18-2007, 03:02 PM
Actually Porky, SWT does care about babies and human life. When we got into the whole Vick thing in another thread, he stated that he thought lawmakers and cops should do more to protect humans, especially those. Go after real criminals. Dogs just didn't have the same priority for him.

I hope I parphrased you properly, Ben.

HoustonFrog, I know you are an attorney, but I almost became one. One case made me throw the idea out. It wasn't a Federal case but was linked to one. Some ass got through the jury and blew us away. I'd tell the story but it's too long winded. I just do not trust juries to always do the right thing. If I was Vick, my new career would be singing...as in like a bird to the Feds and writing, too! As in checks. Lot's of them for fines, setting up animal care facilities, free spay and nueter clinics for the entire state of VA, and other worthwhile things so my ass wasn't dressed in orange. But, if he fights it and gets jail time, he can always pen the script to the next jailhouse football movie and star in it with all the other NFL criminals.

there are many day I wish I had followed suit:)You are right. His main goal right now is to do what his co-defendants and everyone else is doing, turn...turn on all of them and minimize what he may have known or have been a part of. I think his main problem is that a few of the witnesses claim he was there for some dog deaths...training..and so forth. Just bow down before the court and see what you can work out.

threetoedpete
07-18-2007, 03:05 PM
I agree that if he's convicted, he'll be banned for life so he won't need to be fired. However, I really doubt that if he goes to jail that those criminals in there are going to care very much and make him someone's Sweet Sadie. He'll be on a thrown and no Bubba is going to tuck him in at night. He's MV. They won't lay a hand on him. That's where he'll find all the support he needs in the world. Criminals caring about dog fighting? Doubtful.

Next time the History channel runs one of the gang series...you really need to take a look. They don't do those things for the enjoyment of it. They do those things for the pain it inflicts. Intimadation. It's a different world in prison. They don't think like us. You're either the man or the female dog. Vick might get lucky and hit a minimum security unit. First offense and all. He might get by with by joining a gang. If they give him protection, it's going to cost him so much a month.


The animal lover guys will want him doing hard time. You can see that for sure with all of the posts. They won't be satisfied now that the details have come out untill they have thier pound of flesh. The bear snatches a boy out of a Utah camp grounds, the first words out of their mouths was how did the boy and his family tempt the bear.

threetoedpete
07-18-2007, 03:19 PM
Well, SWT won't be on that jury anyway, so....it's just his opinion. However, something may surface and the guy might REALLY be innocent. It's our country's law to reserve a guilty verdict until PROVEN. I want that right and I'm sure all of us do.




Yeah, and I wasn't talking to you after the divorce and that Campbell jersey either. I happen to agree with you that someone with a spot in thier heart for Vick will avoid the voir dire trap and he'll walk. It's the way people view celebs these days. Given what I've seen Grisham write, anything is possible. Hell, I avoid jury duty like the plague and I take a well worn copy of The Runaway Jury anytime I get called and place a bookmark 3/4 of the way through. Once either side sees me reading intently, sees that I used to work in law, they kick my ass out in a hurry. It's a race to see who will disqualify me first. :)



I take a Rush Limbaugh book. And hold it high so the judge orders (me)all reading material be put it away. I have no illusions about this thing. If he walks , I wouldn't be at all shocked. I don't think an AG would push his chips to the middle of the table unless he was prety darn sure he was going to get a convition. Last thing he would want is to loose this thing the year befor the other party takes over. He's going to be fired no matter what. But if he wins he gets his foot in the door somewhere. I don't lie in vior dire I tell the unvarnsihed truth. Usually that's good enough.

the wonger need food
07-18-2007, 03:22 PM
The 2 most important things that strike me

with regards to the NFL... Vick met with Goodell in April 2007 and denied any/all involvement. Vick was indicted for fighting and killing dogs in April 2007.

with regards to the courts... where is Davon Broddie. He told everyone it was his fault but isn't named anywhere on the indictment.

real
07-18-2007, 03:26 PM
Petey, I don't think MV is going to be sagging in jail if he goes. Call it a hunch, but criminals are probably going to say..."I like dogs and he's scum" or..."Holy Crap. It's Vick!" I see more ass kissing than anything else.

"Hey Mikey. I'm out in 3 months bro....I weigh 295 and am 6'7. I'll watch ya man, I'll watch ya."

If Vick was put in with the general population he wouldn't be touched by anyone...

Believe it or not, but Vick would probably have mad respect in there...

He's rich, and money talks...

Blazing Arrow
07-18-2007, 03:40 PM
I see more ass kissing than anything else.


Can you get arse herpies :hmmm:

Texan_Bill
07-18-2007, 03:44 PM
Can you get arse herpies :hmmm:

Thats an area of expertise for Mr. Mexico

swtbound07
07-18-2007, 03:46 PM
i wonder how many of you were calling the duke lacrosse kids scum and saying the prosecution was a slam dunk based on anecdotal evidence.

Specnatz
07-18-2007, 03:53 PM
i wonder how many of you were calling the duke lacrosse kids scum and saying the prosecution was a slam dunk based on anecdotal evidence.

I am so glad you mentioned it, because this story has been going on for months, the duke kids got charged pretty quickly, and the girls story changed 3 times in the first 48 hours. So far I have not seen anyone change there story on this case, except maybe vicks cousin who said it was all on him and now he is not indited.

So I know you are trying to make this a race thing, you tried and failed.

HOU-TEX
07-18-2007, 03:56 PM
I am so glad you mentioned it, because this story has been going on for months, the duke kids got charged pretty quickly, and the girls story changed 3 times in the first 48 hours. So far I have not seen anyone change there story on this case, except my vicks cousin who said it was all on him and now he is not indited.

So I know you are trying to make this a race thing, you tried and failed.

Wasn't it a prostitute who wanted to charge them? Unless I'm thinking of something else. Eh..[shrugs shoulders]

Texan_Bill
07-18-2007, 03:58 PM
i wonder how many of you were calling the duke lacrosse kids scum and saying the prosecution was a slam dunk based on anecdotal evidence.

Ahhh, a very astute and lucid question. First, let me preface this by saying I took issue when you stated that you would let him walk - even if he was guilty.

Second, I don't call Vick a scumbag over this indictment. Unlike you, I beleive in our Judicial system, so I do consider him innocent until proven guilty (although it isn't looking good for him - this is a Federal indictment and they usually have their ducks in a row).

Last, I call him a scumbag for spreading VD under the name Ron Mexico and flipping off fans that pay to see him play... If he is convicted of this, then I will add it to the list of why I call him a scumbag.

HoustonFrog
07-18-2007, 04:00 PM
i wonder how many of you were calling the duke lacrosse kids scum and saying the prosecution was a slam dunk based on anecdotal evidence.

Actually I supported them in their case and that was an ENTIRELY different scenario. There were conflicting reports from Day 1 about what happened. She and her friends told different stories. You also had a renegade DA who, despite ATM receipts and other evidence, went forward with the States case. People saw that coming from a mile away. I hate to beat a dead horse but you need to step back and look at the differences and what people are saying. This is a federal crime. They put teams on this so they don't rush to judgement. The would not file without pretty concrete proof and that is exactly why they successfully prosecute 95%...because they are picky and do their business by the book. This isn't some nickel and dime case with someone trying to get reelected. Not all cases are the same. This investigation has run for months now before it was even submitted, unlike the Duke case.

Errant Hothy
07-18-2007, 04:06 PM
I think you're right. The girl was a dancer or hooker or something like that. Can't recall exactly and I also shrug my shoulders.

I don't think SWT meant to make this a race thing. It was a rush to judgement thing.

Maybe, but the difference is that the investagtion into Vick and the dog fighting started in April, it's now July...safe to say there has not been anything like the rush to judgement that happened in the Duke Lacross case.

swtbound07
07-18-2007, 04:11 PM
i don't think its a race thing. I'm not even worried about that particular card. I just see an astonishing amount of vitriol for somebody who hasn't been convicted of anything and is facing a first indictment. Some of you will still be calling for his head after he walks. Good for ya, but im telling you, there are thousands of fans like me, and whether its right or wrong, we aint convicting him.

brakos82
07-18-2007, 04:12 PM
I haven't seen a thread this busy since Brittney Spears got her head cut off. :shades:

Texan_Bill
07-18-2007, 04:16 PM
i don't think its a race thing. I'm not even worried about that particular card. I just see an astonishing amount of vitriol for somebody who hasn't been convicted of anything and is facing a first indictment. Some of you will still be calling for his head after he walks. Good for ya, but im telling you, there are thousands of fans like me, and whether its right or wrong, we aint convicting him.

"We're with you"

Signed,

Orenthal James Fans

swtbound07
07-18-2007, 04:18 PM
"We're with you"

Signed,

Orenthal James Fans

my point exactly. he walked. here is a side question for ya'll....ya'll seem to keep throwing this 95 percent conviction rate at me. do you think that 95 percent of the people the government throws up there are guilty? you have a lot of faith in a really crappy organization. i don't assume they are accurate in prosecuting vick just because they are the government.

Texan_Bill
07-18-2007, 04:20 PM
my point exactly. he walked. here is a side question for ya'll....ya'll seem to keep throwing this 95 percent conviction rate at me. do you think that 95 percent of the people the government throws up there are guilty? you have a lot of faith in a really crappy organization. i don't assume they are accurate in prosecuting vick just because they are the government.

And because of people like you, a murderer walks amongst us.

Errant Hothy
07-18-2007, 04:23 PM
my point exactly. he walked. here is a side question for ya'll....ya'll seem to keep throwing this 95 percent conviction rate at me. do you think that 95 percent of the people the government throws up there are guilty? you have a lot of faith in a really crappy organization. i don't assume they are accurate in prosecuting vick just because they are the government.

There is a slight difference between a Federal prosecuter and the cast of moron's that failed to get OJ convicted.

Porky
07-18-2007, 04:29 PM
i don't think its a race thing. I'm not even worried about that particular card. I just see an astonishing amount of vitriol for somebody who hasn't been convicted of anything and is facing a first indictment. Some of you will still be calling for his head after he walks. Good for ya, but im telling you, there are thousands of fans like me, and whether its right or wrong, we aint convicting him.

Thank God for people like you!

Signed,

Oranthal J. Simpson

hollywood_texan
07-18-2007, 04:29 PM
Mick Vick is on the wrong side of PETA and the Humane Society. He is going to need a lot more than money on his side.

Combine that with people generally having more sympathy for animals (particularly dogs), Vick is on an uphill struggle.

One thing to consider, it is common in these type of organizations to steal other people's pets and use them to get the Pit Bulls excited to rip them to shreds. It's basically a training tool. Imagine a prosecutor explaining how they used docile Labs to train these Pit Bulls to become killers.

Once all the details come out (meaning how things ran at this location) in the trial, Mick Vick isn't going to stand a chance. The Feds are not playing around here and wouldn't be doing this if they didn't have rock solid case. There is too much to lose on their end with all the political pressure.

I think one of the 3 other guys is going to crack and testify against Vick, if not all of them. Those guys are definitely cooked, and it's just a matter of how much time they want to spend in jail for Vick or take a shorter sentence. Vick then takes a plea and all the sorted details are not openly discussed at trial.

swtbound07
07-18-2007, 04:30 PM
There is a slight difference between a Federal prosecuter and the cast of moron's that failed to get OJ convicted.

but the same morons are the jury of his peers. it just takes one like me, and in the state where he plays? you kiddin me? no chance for a conviction. if there is me in TEXAS, what do you think there is in georgia. a world of us.

Texan_Bill
07-18-2007, 04:33 PM
Thank God for people like you!

Signed,

Oranthal J. Simpson

LOL.. Porky, did you miss my post a couple above...

Texan_Bill
07-18-2007, 04:33 PM
but the same morons are the jury of his peers. it just takes one like me, and in the state where he plays? you kiddin me? no chance for a conviction. if there is me in TEXAS, what do you think there is in georgia. a world of us.

Did you just call yourself a moron??

hollywood_texan
07-18-2007, 04:34 PM
but the same morons are the jury of his peers. it just takes one like me, and in the state where he plays? you kiddin me? no chance for a conviction. if there is me in TEXAS, what do you think there is in georgia. a world of us.

Are saying, regardless if all the compelling and rational evidence points to conviction, you wouldn't vote for a conviction against Vick if on the jury?

If so, why?

I don't understand why you are so passionate about this guy. Is he a relative? Does he pay you money? Have you even met the guy in person? What is the relationship here if you won't convict on any grounds?

I just don't understand where you are coming from.

Errant Hothy
07-18-2007, 04:36 PM
but the same morons are the jury of his peers. it just takes one like me, and in the state where he plays? you kiddin me? no chance for a conviction. if there is me in TEXAS, what do you think there is in georgia. a world of us.

See the difference I don't blame teh jury for wahat happened with OJ, I blame Ito and the DA'a office.

Also people like you tend to not wind up on jury's...thankfully.

Texan_Bill
07-18-2007, 04:37 PM
but the same morons are the jury of his peers. it just takes one like me, and in the state where he plays? you kiddin me? no chance for a conviction. if there is me in TEXAS, what do you think there is in georgia. a world of us.

I beleive the state the indictment was filed in was Virginia.

swtbound07
07-18-2007, 04:43 PM
Are saying, regardless if all the compelling and rational evidence points to conviction, you wouldn't vote for a conviction against Vick if on the jury?

If so, why?

I don't understand why you are so passionate about this guy. Is he a relative? Does he pay you money? Have you even met the guy in person? What is the relationship here if you won't convict on any grounds?

I just don't understand where you are coming from.

IRREGARDLESS (my favorite word, fwiw) of any evidence, i wouldn't vote for vick. I have a vested financial interest in michael vick and the atlanta falcons winning the super bowl this season. Besides, I like to watch him play more than i give a crap about dogs.

HoustonFrog
07-18-2007, 04:43 PM
There is a slight difference between a Federal prosecuter and the cast of moron's that failed to get OJ convicted.

I agree and was about to make the same point. I don't pretend to trust the government on all things but I also think when it comes to their courts and how they conduct their business, it is much more "professional" in nature or business like then we see in State cases.

i don't think its a race thing. I'm not even worried about that particular card. I just see an astonishing amount of vitriol for somebody who hasn't been convicted of anything and is facing a first indictment. Some of you will still be calling for his head after he walks. Good for ya, but im telling you, there are thousands of fans like me, and whether its right or wrong, we aint convicting him.

Actually he was on my fantasy team as a backup last year and I like watching him play. I just separate blind hero worship and crime. Your arguments sound like a high school girlfriend that can't get over her ex. I don't want to see innocent men convicted. You are just being a little callous regarding the situation.

TexansLucky13
07-18-2007, 04:54 PM
i wonder how many of you were calling the duke lacrosse kids scum and saying the prosecution was a slam dunk based on anecdotal evidence.

I am so glad you mentioned it, because this story has been going on for months, the duke kids got charged pretty quickly, and the girls story changed 3 times in the first 48 hours. So far I have not seen anyone change there story on this case, except my vicks cousin who said it was all on him and now he is not indited.

So I know you are trying to make this a race thing, you tried and failed.

Excellent response to that, Specnatz.

Pulling out the race card means that SWT is all out of excuses for Mr. Vick.

swtbound07
07-18-2007, 04:55 PM
Excellent response to that, Specnatz.

Pulling out the race card means that SWT is all out of excuses for Mr. Vick.

not playing the race card. Just saying he won't go to jail.

powerfuldragon
07-18-2007, 04:58 PM
not playing the race card. Just saying he won't go to jail.
i agree that he won't go to jail even though i think he should.

Second Honeymoon
07-18-2007, 04:58 PM
IRREGARDLESS (my favorite word, fwiw) of any evidence, i wouldn't vote for vick. I have a vested financial interest in michael vick and the atlanta falcons winning the super bowl this season. Besides, I like to watch him play more than i give a crap about dogs.

degenerate gambler
narcissistic and self centered
inhumane

you even predicted Carr would be back...you guaranteed it...

*DING DING* we have a winner for **** of the year award

powerfuldragon
07-18-2007, 04:59 PM
degenerate gambler
narcissistic and self centered
inhumane

you even predicted Carr would be back...you guaranteed it...

*DING DING* we have a winner for ********* of the year award
unless you're being sarcastic, that's pretty low.

swtbound07
07-18-2007, 05:03 PM
unless you're being sarcastic, that's pretty low.

meh. i've been called worse by better.

Errant Hothy
07-18-2007, 05:18 PM
I might agree with you if we see evidence that Vick trained the dogs. If his cousin and other scum ran the camp, but Vick just owned the land, my U.S. Citizenship will call for those Feds to nail the guys who used stolen house pets for training. Someone else better get indicted here or we have another Salem on our hands. I won't care at that point except to start screaming for Vick's rights. The bastards that ran the place should be indicted right now. Who else has been? He isn't the only one involved, yet is he the only one indicted????

That's sickening.

Vick may be knowlegable, but he didn't run this job alone.

Elle, three other have alos been indicted. Also there are reports that Vick personally witnessed the execution of dogs that failed to perform.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2940312&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab1pos2

If the dogs failed the test, the indictment charges, they were executed by hanging or drowning. In one case, with Vick present, the indictment says a dog was slammed to the ground until it was dead. In another incident, a dog was soaked with a hose, then electrocuted. Those aren't the sort of transgressions that lead to probation and community service. It's the kind of behavior that results in punishment, and the punishment will be jail time.

Vick will watch to see which of his three co-defendants will be the first to make a deal with federal prosecutors.

hollywood_texan
07-18-2007, 05:25 PM
IRREGARDLESS (my favorite word, fwiw) of any evidence, i wouldn't vote for vick. I have a vested financial interest in michael vick and the atlanta falcons winning the super bowl this season. Besides, I like to watch him play more than i give a crap about dogs.

What are the odds and how much did you put down?

Technically, irregardless isn't a word. But, I think you know that from your point. Maybe you can say "I love to say ..."

Mr. White
07-18-2007, 05:29 PM
Technically, irregardless isn't a word. But, I think you know that from your point.

Just look at everybody conversating about what's a word and what isn't.

real
07-18-2007, 05:34 PM
I agree with Elle and SWT....

I think Vick is guilty, and I hope he gets what's due to him, but that really doesn't matter....

What matters is whether or not they can prove it in court...

Specnatz
07-18-2007, 05:37 PM
I have refrained from calling swt names because it is not approprite on here no matter what kind of person I think he is.

But I will say I have lost all respect for him, with quotes like this.....

IRREGARDLESS (my favorite word, fwiw) of any evidence, i wouldn't vote for vick. I have a vested financial interest in michael vick and the atlanta falcons winning the super bowl this season. Besides, I like to watch him play more than i give a crap about dogs.

It shows his true character.

It is not about innocent until proven guilty, it is find him innocent and to hell with the American judicial system and to hell with America. I am sure China has a nice place for you to live and gamble.

:patriot

real
07-18-2007, 05:43 PM
I hope Vick is found guilty because I think he had a substantial part in all of this, but I also hope the commish doesn't do anything until he's found guilty...

Specnatz
07-18-2007, 06:02 PM
With reliable sources not people straight off the Sopranos cooking a deal for themselves. I want to see testimony from someone who didn't cut a deal. It's not a lot to ask.

This line of thinking would have a lot of people not convicted.

Jeffrey Skilling and Ken Lay.

gwallaia
07-18-2007, 06:09 PM
Vick Scmick, I heard Vince Young can beat up pit bulls with his bare hands.

hollywood_texan
07-18-2007, 06:13 PM
With reliable sources not people straight off the Sopranos cooking a deal for themselves. I want to see testimony from someone who didn't cut a deal. It's not a lot to ask.

Elle, I think you need to understand this sub-culture. No one is going to testify against Vick unless:

A. They are involved in this sub-culture, which means they are breaking the law, and
B. They stand a good chance of getting convicted of their crimes.

It's not like innocent people are hanging around these places to testify about this type of stuff.

You are expecting something that probably will never exist. And, therefore there would probably not be any convictions regarding this type of activity. The criminal justice system doesn't work like TV or the movies.

Double Barrel
07-18-2007, 06:41 PM
Vick Scmick, I heard Vince Young can beat up pit bulls with his bare hands.

Shooooot, I heard that Vince Young has pit bills for biceps.

TigerV1
07-18-2007, 07:12 PM
Shooooot, I heard that Vince Young has pit bills for biceps.

Shhhh.....don't tell Mike Vick. :secret:

brakos82
07-18-2007, 07:18 PM
Vick Scmick, I heard Vince Young can beat up pit bulls with his bare hands.

I doubt this one.http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/489/attachmentphpeq7.jpg Genetic Mutation Dog.

Hagar
07-18-2007, 08:17 PM
I doubt this one.http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/489/attachmentphpeq7.jpg Genetic Mutation Dog.Doggie growth hormone??? Roids???

Doesn't appear to have a block jaw or any zits, it must be natural muscle growth???

brakos82
07-18-2007, 08:19 PM
Doggie growth hormone??? Roids???

Doesn't appear to have a block jaw or any zits, it must be natural muscle growth???

Genetic Mutations. This is what you get when you inbreed dogs.

hollywood_texan
07-18-2007, 08:30 PM
So, hopefully, the team will make a comment soon, TC will begin, life goes on until something very substantial is released. Otherwise, we will just be chasing our tails by posting further. I think we all agree, except for SWT, that dog fighting is horrid and illegal. But, some of us have little faith in a judicial system that allows pardons that go out to Gov't persons while others get nailed. Popping a CIA agent to the world is ok, but dogfights, well......


This is where I think we are going completely wrong in society. People are more concerned about politics than what is right or wrong.

Scooter Libby was convicted of perjury and obstruction of justice. Coincidentally, the same thing Clinton came up against in the Lewinsky thing. My point is, he has not been convicted of outing a CIA agent.

So, maybe Libby should be given the benefit of the doubt regarding innocence since he hasn't been convicted of that crime (treason and basically outing a CIA agent)?

Geez, the Bush issue seems to trape into every aspect of our society and for reasons to not do the right thing because proving a political point is more important.

BattleRedToro
07-18-2007, 08:32 PM
I doubt this one.http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/489/attachmentphpeq7.jpg Genetic Mutation Dog.

Is that a real photo or did someone manipulate it with a computer?
If it is a real photo, that is one strange looking dog.

brakos82
07-18-2007, 08:36 PM
Is that a real photo or did someone manipulate it with a computer?
If it is a real photo, that is one strange looking dog.

Article:

This is a real dog.. she has a genetic defect(I wish I had) that makes her more muscular
Breed : whippet



People mistake her for a pitbull with a pinhead, but Wendy the whippet is one rare breed.

So rare that the Central Saanich dog recently graced the New York Times. She also had several of her photos shown on The Today Show, all because of a rare genetic mutation that has led to her being the Incredible Hulk of dogs.

Wendy is a 27-kilogram rippling mass of muscle. Forget the so-called six-pack stomach: Wendy has a 24-pack. And the muscles around her neck are so thick, they look like a lion's ruff.



Wendy the Whippet has a genetic disorder that has resulted in an exceptionally muscular appearance.
Bruce Stotesbury, Times Colonist

Email to a friend


People have referred to her as Arnold Schwarzenegger," says doting owner Ingrid Hansen, stroking Wendy's sleek black coat and white chest.

Wendy was recently part of a genetics study done in the U.S. on mutation in the myostatin gene in whippets, which resemble greyhounds in appearance. The National Institute of Health study reported that whippets with one single defective copy of the gene have increased muscle mass that can enhance racing performance in the breed, known for speeds up to 60 kilometres an hour.

But whippets with two mutated copies of the gene become "double-muscled," like Wendy. It has been seen before in one human, and also in mice, cattle and sheep, says the study.

The uber-muscled whippets are called "bullies," not because of their nature -- Wendy likes nothing better than a good back scratch and isn't shy about sitting in your lap to ask for one -- but because of their size. She's about twice the weight of an average whippet, but with the same height and small narrow head -- and the same size heart and lungs, which means she probably won't live as long as normal whippets.

Hansen has had Wendy, now four, since she bought the dog from a Shawnigan Lake breeder when she was eight months old.

Wendy landed in clover. She lives on an acreage, runs around with other dogs and horses, sleeps on Hansen's bed and pretty much anywhere else she wants to.

People are often afraid when the muscle-bound dog runs up to them on her dainty whippet-thin legs, but they soon realize she's friendly, Hansen said.


As far as I know it's real.

gwallaia
07-18-2007, 09:04 PM
I doubt this one.http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/489/attachmentphpeq7.jpg Genetic Mutation Dog.

I still say Vince Young would whip its ass.

Pantherstang84
07-18-2007, 09:05 PM
This is where I think we are going completely wrong in society. People are more concerned about politics than what is right or wrong.

Scooter Libby was convicted of perjury and obstruction of justice. Coincidentally, the same thing Clinton came up against in the Lewinsky thing. My point is, he has not been convicted of outing a CIA agent.

So, maybe Libby should be given the benefit of the doubt regarding innocence since he hasn't been convicted of that crime (treason and basically outing a CIA agent)?

Geez, the Bush issue seems to trape into every aspect of our society and for reasons to not do the right thing because proving a political point is more important.

Agreed. Can we not leave politics at the door and just talk about football and its periphery?

Second Honeymoon
07-18-2007, 09:08 PM
Was trolling err listening to 2LiveStews sports radio talk show in Atlanta. They were talking that there has been an undercover federal agent working the whole thing for 3 years. So this would provide the feds with an impeccable witness and they would no longer rely on the testimony of the other defendants and/or known criminals.

So 4 people named as witnesses in the indictment with none of them being any of the 3 defendants and one of them being an undercover officer. Sounds pretty bad to me for Vick. Now the other 3 people defendants named could be turned against Vick and would only strengthen an already formidable case by the prosecution.

From what NFLN's sources are saying it sounds like the Falcons are going to let it ride and let Vick play until it becomes a distraction or public sentiment demands it. I wonder if Nike and his other endorsements will stand by him?

Koolaid Time
07-18-2007, 09:20 PM
Was trolling err listening to 2LiveStews sports radio talk show in Atlanta. They were talking that there has been an undercover federal agent working the whole thing for 3 years. So this would provide the feds with an impeccable witness and they would no longer rely on the testimony of the other defendants and/or known criminals.

So 4 people named as witnesses in the indictment with none of them being any of the 3 defendants and one of them being an undercover officer. Sounds pretty bad to me for Vick. Now the other 3 people defendants named could be turned against Vick and would only strengthen an already formidable case by the prosecution.

From what NFLN's sources are saying it sounds like the Falcons are going to let it ride and let Vick play until it becomes a distraction or public sentiment demands it. I wonder if Nike and his other endorsements will stand by him?


I heard the same thing.. one of the "CW" referenced in the Indictment is an undercover Federal Agent. Also heard that there is a videotape of a 2003 dog fight with Vick present where someone scremed "Hey, Mike Vick"... as referenced in Paragraph 68 of the Indictment.

real
07-18-2007, 10:30 PM
LOL....wow...

Hardcore Texan
07-18-2007, 10:47 PM
my point exactly. he walked. here is a side question for ya'll....ya'll seem to keep throwing this 95 percent conviction rate at me. do you think that 95 percent of the people the government throws up there are guilty? you have a lot of faith in a really crappy organization. i don't assume they are accurate in prosecuting vick just because they are the government.

I don't think OJ's was a federal case, it was more like LA county IIRC?

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/Simpson/Simpsonaccount.htm

Now if you want to talk 95% conviction rate, you can ask Jamal Lewis

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/football/bal-te.sp.jamal18aug18,0,6008860.story?coll=bal-football-storyutil

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/us_sport/4141362.stm

But don't let facts get in the way.

Vick may never see the inside of a jail cell IF found guility, but it is not looking very good at all, and it certainly will take a lot of fines to keep him out. And the Commish doesn't need a conviction to suspend him.

Khari
07-18-2007, 11:07 PM
i hope he's suspended and never plays again.... that is all. :bigboss:

cuppacoffee
07-19-2007, 12:00 AM
Another problem for Vick has been discussed at..

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

"If Vick was gambling, and winning, thousands of dollars, Vick likely wasn't declaring his dog fighting booty as income. And, thus, Vick would not have paid all of his applicable taxes. Which, in turn, would make him potentially responsible for tax evasion."

The feds even got big Al for not paying his taxes. :money:


:coffee:

Second Honeymoon
07-19-2007, 12:10 AM
Another problem for Vick has been discussed at..

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

"If Vick was gambling, and winning, thousands of dollars, Vick likely wasn't declaring his dog fighting booty as income. And, thus, Vick would not have paid all of his applicable taxes. Which, in turn, would make him potentially responsible for tax evasion."

The feds even got big Al for not paying his taxes. :money:


:coffee:

no doubt. in the end with fines, legal fees, and lost wages/returned signing bonus prorated, Vick should be out upwards of $40 million.

Hope it was all worth it Vick.......what a waste

michaelm
07-19-2007, 01:10 AM
And you know what? If I had to go through voir dire I wouldn't lie either. The book usually gets me kicked out. I'm a teacher and a coach for this FINE state of Texas. I don't want to end up on a jury for a case against a former student...LOL (j/k, but you never know) and I can't take the time away from THAT civic duty to perform another. I really would tell the truth. But, that plays into my own morality and current job status. I don't lie to people. I hate liars.

Frankly, I don't see the people in VA or GA being totally honest here. We could all bet one penny that someone would lie and we'd probably all win the penny.

So you get selected for jury duty often enough, and dismissed for possessing a Grisham novel often enough, that you can use the phrase "the book usually gets me kicked out"?
Sorry Elle, either you have incredibly bad luck being selected so often, or your spinning tall tales. No offense...

Andrew6
07-19-2007, 01:35 AM
Ok I'm a bit lazy and not going to read 12 pages. I got through about 2 and thought to myself, as a Texan if Vick is found guilty and the League bars him from the league who will in fact be the Falcons QB. I mean hell we took their back up. I'm kinda releived to say that even though Texans have made some mistakes this may be the best acquistion of all times by totally screwing the Falcons. They will have to start a 3rd string QB, or pick up duanta cullpepper. Which is fine hopefully Mario can put him on his back. So... in retrospect who is Vicks back up and how good is he?

Koolaid Time
07-19-2007, 04:33 AM
So you get selected for jury duty often enough, and dismissed for possessing a Grisham novel often enough, that you can use the phrase "the book usually gets me kicked out"?
Sorry Elle, either you have incredibly bad luck being selected so often, or your spinning tall tales. No offense...

That is one of the crazy things about Texas Jury Duty exemptions... If you are a STUDENT at a public or private high school or you are enrolled and attend college, you are exempt from Jury Duty....

But TEACHERS are not exempt...

Koolaid Time
07-19-2007, 05:03 AM
Remember how this story broke in the first place..

The Vick cousin/ relative that lived in the house was arrested on a drug charge and the police obtained a search warrant for the house...

(By the way, notice that the two residents of the house are not any of the 4 individuals indicted? Maybe they have already rolled over on "Cousin Ookie" to save their own skins.)

While searching, police found the rape stands, pits, treadmills, pry bars and a bunch of pit bulls on the property.

In the weeks that followed ESPN, etc. ran stories about supposed videotapes existing showing Vick at dog fights etc. I'm pretty sure these videos were made as part of the ongoing Fed Investigation that the locals stumbled onto.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=ApL.Wi0WCTtpYCPTz8qXR.hDubYF?slug=jc-vick051407&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Gerald Poindexter, the doofus District Attorney for Surry County, that WANTED to give Vick a pass, made statements like "I havn't seen this, or I havn't spoken to the investigators" etc. Poindexter was doing his best to sweep everything under the rug.

IMO, Poindexter is just as bad as Mike Nifong.

In Early May, Surry County officials secured a search warrant based on an informant's tip about dogs being buried on the property, but Poindexter never executed it because he said he had "concerns with the wording of the document."

On June 7, the day that warrant expired, federal officials executed their own warrant issued through the US District Court, Eastern District of Virginia, with the help of Virginia State Police investigators.

DoJ/Feds doesn't like to share its info on investigations with the locals unless it has to. Its obvious the Feds didn't trust Poindexter.. nor should they.

Only July 7, the Feds were back out at the property, digging some more. The documents made public in connection with this warrant sounds pretty close to the statements later used in "Ookie's" Indictment.

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=234129&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=121&sid=669cd811eb14fb9e14b336af1427c283

Here is a pretty good synposis of the events

http://www.profootballtalk.com/VickInvestigation.htm

http://www.profootballtalk.com/bewareofvick.jpg

Kaiser Toro
07-19-2007, 07:34 AM
i like watching vick play football. dont' really care much about dogs. Seems pretty cut and dry to me. And if you think there won't be one vick fan on that jury just like me, your insane. I don't care what he did. it doesn't matter.

Are you as certain on this as you were with Carr being a Texan in 2007?

GuerillaBlack
07-19-2007, 08:11 AM
Why is he being allowed to play? He shouldn't.
http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/falcons/stories/2007/07/19/0719vickap.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab

real
07-19-2007, 08:34 AM
Ok I'm a bit lazy and not going to read 12 pages. I got through about 2 and thought to myself, as a Texan if Vick is found guilty and the League bars him from the league who will in fact be the Falcons QB. I mean hell we took their back up. I'm kinda releived to say that even though Texans have made some mistakes this may be the best acquistion of all times by totally screwing the Falcons. They will have to start a 3rd string QB, or pick up duanta cullpepper. Which is fine hopefully Mario can put him on his back. So... in retrospect who is Vicks back up and how good is he?

I believe DJ Shockley is still on their roster.

I'm not 100% sure; but in last years pre-season he looked really good...I wouldn't have minded having him as a QB on our roster....

real
07-19-2007, 08:35 AM
Oh yeah....And Joey Harrington is a Falcon...

And Culpepper might be an option...

real
07-19-2007, 08:38 AM
Speaking of Harrington, how many chances is this guy gonna get to start in this leauge ?

Texan_Bill
07-19-2007, 08:54 AM
Here's what I have learned through Jury Duty:

When you are picked on a 'panel' (group of 30 or so) to be interviewed by the attorneys - offer opinions on EVERYTHING.... for example, I was on a panel for drug case and the attorney posed a question about sentencing for that type of case... I offered the opinion that drug dealers should be subjected to the death penalty....... ~ 10 minutes later, I hear the judge say... "panelist number 22, you may be excused"........... No jury duty, I was at the Bar by noon.

hobie
07-19-2007, 09:03 AM
Jury Duty..what the heck is that?? You mean those things I get in the mail from the county that says Jury Duty Summons? Shoot, I can't recall ever getting one of those...I guess I accidentally discard them out with those God awful flyers that HEB and Randall's sends out 3x a week...:jam:

michaelm
07-19-2007, 09:21 AM
I get picked a lot, especially when I had small children. I don't know why, but there was awhile when I got at least 3 per year. I think it is bad luck for my friends too. I can't tell you how many teachers I know get called.

Wow... I'm 41 years old, have lived in the greater Houston area for all but 4 years in the military and have only received one summons that I'm aware of... maybe I missed some in the mail..?

Texan_Bill
07-19-2007, 09:35 AM
Wow... I'm 41 years old, have lived in the greater Houston area for all but 4 years in the military and have only received one summons that I'm aware of... maybe I missed some in the mail..?

You sir are one of the lucky ones. I got summonsed (sp), 4 times in about an 18-20 month period. One was for the city, the other 3 were Harris County....

HoustonFrog
07-19-2007, 09:44 AM
Speaking of Harrington, how many chances is this guy gonna get to start in this leauge ?

As I wrote in a separate thread..how many guys is he going to take out..Culpepper in Miami and now two QBs maybe gone out of his way in Atlanta. Voodoo.

I get picked a lot, especially when I had small children. I don't know why, but there was awhile when I got at least 3 per year. I think it is bad luck for my friends too. I can't tell you how many teachers I know get called.

Only been summoned twice. Once I didn't have to go because I was in law school. The second time I sat down there...County.. until noon and luckily my number was in a good range where I got to go back to work.

Porky
07-19-2007, 10:16 AM
Why is he being allowed to play? He shouldn't.
http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/falcons/stories/2007/07/19/0719vickap.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab

Good question. Based on the facts we already know, he should be suspended for one year NOW. If the bulk of the rest of the allegations prove to be true, then he deserves a lifetime ban.

Roger Godell has had a very impressive start to his tenure, and has cracked down on some of these miscreants like Pacman. Now, all the sudden, we see that there is indeed a two-tiered structure of justice in Godell's kingdom. One set of rules for the Pacman's and one set for the Ron Mexico's. Very disapointing. I am going to send an email to the NFL offices. Anyone else that feels he should be suspended should do the same. :devilpig:

HoustonFrog
07-19-2007, 10:24 AM
Good question. Based on the facts we already know, he should be suspended for one year NOW. If the bulk of the rest of the allegations prove to be true, then he deserves a lifetime ban.

Roger Godell has had a very impressive start to his tenure, and has cracked down on some of these miscreants like Pacman. Now, all the sudden, we see that there is indeed a two-tiered structure of justice in Godell's kingdom. One set of rules for the Pacman's and one set for the Ron Mexico's. Very disapointing. I am going to send an email to the NFL offices. Anyone else that feels he should be suspended should do the same. :devilpig:

I could not agree more. I liked that Goodall was hard core. But not the excuse is...well PacMan has been arrested 10 times, etc. Well Vick has been in trouble too. There is no way there should be a tiered system with this.

eriadoc
07-19-2007, 10:28 AM
i like watching vick play football. dont' really care much about dogs. Seems pretty cut and dry to me. And if you think there won't be one vick fan on that jury just like me, your insane. I don't care what he did. it doesn't matter.

SWT, it's absolutely pathetic for people to weigh in on Vick's innocence or guilt based on what he's done on a football field. This matter has nothing to do with the football field and everything to do with the dog fighting pits. If he walks because of whatever he's accomplished on the football field, then it's a travesty. For you to admit that you would not convict him because of his accomplishments on the field, rather than whatever evidence is presented, is irresponsible and frankly, speaks volumes about you, IMO.

real
07-19-2007, 10:50 AM
Pac-Man and Vick's situations aren't the same...

Porky
07-19-2007, 10:53 AM
Pac-Man and Vick's situations aren't the same...

Agreed. Vick's is worse. :devilpig:

Specnatz
07-19-2007, 11:30 AM
SWT, it's absolutely pathetic for people to weigh in on Vick's innocence or guilt based on what he's done on a football field. This matter has nothing to do with the football field and everything to do with the dog fighting pits. If he walks because of whatever he's accomplished on the football field, then it's a travesty. For you to admit that you would not convict him because of his accomplishments on the field, rather than whatever evidence is presented, is irresponsible and frankly, speaks volumes about you, IMO.

I already said what my feelings are on him, and they are close to what you have said.

real
07-19-2007, 11:34 AM
Wow SWT isn't making many friends...

Mr teX
07-19-2007, 11:45 AM
Agreed. Vick's is worse. :devilpig:

Tell that to the guy who is now paralyzed b/c of someone in pacman's entourage. That's absolutely pathetic Porky.

Porky
07-19-2007, 12:17 PM
Tell that to the guy who is now paralyzed b/c of someone in pacman's entourage. That's absolutely pathetic Porky.


I bolded the key word. Notice I said worse than anything PACMAN has done. Yes, if you include his posse, his homies, or whatever word is hip right now, we might find some agreement. I am more interested in knowing what Vick himself has done. From what has come out so far, I think it's consiberably worse than Pacman.

Texan_Bill
07-19-2007, 12:20 PM
Porky, I beleive the correct vernacular would be Master Adam and his associates -or- Mr. Jones and his colleagues...

Second Honeymoon
07-19-2007, 12:29 PM
I bolded the key word. Notice I said worse than anything PACMAN has done. Yes, if you include his posse, his homies, or whatever word is hip right now, we might find some agreement. I am more interested in knowing what Vick himself has done. From what has come out so far, I think it's consiberably worse than Pacman.

I have to say that Vick has probably shown worse judgement than PacMan has. The end result is probably worse for PacMan and his clique due to a man lying paralyzed because of their mistakes though. I value the life of one man over a dog but most of PacMan's laundry list of altercations were due to heat of the moment incidents. S**t happens, its just how you handle it when he does. PacMan and his clique have failed left and right in that respect but most incidents don't seem premeditated and calculated evil.

However, Vick's altercations are not heat of the moment or just jocks/homeboys out drunk and getting into it with others. Vick's actions have been calculated, financed, planned, and executed (literally). You don't just wake up one day and become a dog fighter. He grew this from grass roots with seed money from his 1st NFL contract within WEEKS of getting his Golden Ticket.

What I am saying is that PacMan is guilty of being a bad guy. Vick is guilty of being, in essence, a kingpin of dog fighting on the southern Atlantic seaboard and someone who lacks any ability to be humane and moral. Vick's crimes seem much more conniving and with much more premeditation than PacMan and his entourages crimes. I just hold Vick more culpable in all this than a drunk and stoned Pac Man shooting at people. One guy is just a dumbarse who acts like a criminal because he thinks its cool while Vick just seems to be a stone cold criminal.

I can't stand either of them and both need to go away for a while. I would also like to add that I am personally disappointed in Goodell in that he doesnt seem to be willing to treat Vick like the other players who have gotten in trouble. They can say that Vick is a 'first time' offender but if the NFL looks more closely at Vick's behavior they can see that there is a pattern of destructive behavior that endangers 'the shield'.

This behavior merits an initial 8 game suspension which would then give time for the court case to finish and then they could decide whether to tack on another 8-16 games and allow the Falcons to jettison him and his contract.

Porky
07-19-2007, 12:34 PM
I have to say that Vick has probably shown worse judgement than PacMan has. The end result is probably worse for PacMan and his clique due to a man lying paralyzed because of their mistakes though. I value the life of one man over a dog but most of PacMan's laundry list of altercations were due to heat of the moment incidents. S**t happens, its just how you handle it when he does. PacMan and his clique have failed left and right in that respect but most incidents don't seem premeditated and calculated evil.

However, Vick's altercations are not heat of the moment or just jocks/homeboys out drunk and getting into it with others. Vick's actions have been calculated, financed, planned, and executed (literally). You don't just wake up one day and become a dog fighter. He grew this from grass roots with seed money from his 1st NFL contract within WEEKS of getting his Golden Ticket.

What I am saying is that PacMan is guilty of being a bad guy. Vick is guilty of being, in essence, a kingpin of dog fighting on the southern Atlantic seaboard and someone who lacks any ability to be humane and moral. Vick's crimes seem much more conniving and with much more premeditation than PacMan and his entourages crimes. I just hold Vick more culpable in all this than a drunk and stoned Pac Man shooting at people. One guy is just a dumbarse who acts like a criminal because he thinks its cool while Vick just seems to be a stone cold criminal.

Excellent points and quoted for truth.

real
07-19-2007, 01:08 PM
And all of that is the exact reason that if Vick is found guilty his punishment will be much worse than Pac Man's...

I don't see the discrepency...

real
07-19-2007, 01:09 PM
or whatever word is hip right now

Guerillas

Mr teX
07-19-2007, 01:11 PM
pacman's actions & the actions of his entourage are just as conniving & "executed" as vick's allegedly was/is. His dumb arse decided to go to that club with his boys knowing what kind of ruckus those dudes could possibly get into. He made the decisions to roll with them even after he had a face to face with goodell saying he was going to impose a curfew on himself & stay out of strip clubs. Drunken nights of fun don't excuse him. Once, ok... twice, hmmm something's up with this kid........ 10 times, including multiple shootings and fights? definitely not a coincidence.

real
07-19-2007, 01:12 PM
pacman's actions & the actions of his entourage are just as conniving & "executed" as vick's allegedly was/is. His dumb arse decided to go to that club with his boys knowing what kind of ruckus those dudes could possibly get into.

I agree with this.

No one Carries a gun to a club on accident.

Second Honeymoon
07-19-2007, 01:15 PM
pacman's actions & the actions of his entourage are just as conniving & "executed" as vick's allegedly was/is. His dumb arse decided to go to that club with his boys knowing what kind of ruckus those dudes could possibly get into. He made the decisions to roll with them even after he had a face to face with goodell saying he was going to impose a curfew on himself & stay out of strip clubs. Drunken nights of fun don't excuse him. Once, ok... twice, hmmm something's up with this kid........ 10 times, including multiple shootings and fights? definitely not a coincidence.

i hear ya. i guess i am just saying that trouble finds pacman whereas Vick seemed to be looking for trouble within a week of his initial NFL contract.

both guys are criminals at the end of the day.

HOU-TEX
07-19-2007, 01:17 PM
Here's the entire 18 page Indictment for those who want to see it. It might of already been posted.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0717072vick1.html

Texan_Bill
07-19-2007, 01:22 PM
I would tend to give Pac-man more of a benefit of doubt, than Vick. (only by the slimmest of margins though). Pac-man is just a knucklehead thug whereas Vick was involved with an illegal enterprise (alledgedly), which realized profit..

BUT, at the end of the day, I have to agree with Second Honeymoon:
both guys are criminals at the end of the day.