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View Full Version : Less than 8 wins, Fire everyone?


badboy
07-17-2007, 12:28 PM
There are predictions all over the place, but if the team goes less than 8-8 what are ramifications? Does McNair say Kubes you've had two years and it just ain't working, good bye? If so does that open the door for our assistant head coach from Green Bay? Will injuries be allowed to be an excuse or is it wins regardless and you guys (team & management) are meeting owner's goals. Can we be 6 or 7 wins and be able to say, well we got the players in place and with all the room under cap for the next season, we will be able to close most of the holes? Will less than 8-8 cause a revolt amongst the fan base?

My opinion, focus is on the play not the wins. I want to see growth in the guys 2years and under such as Mario and Demeco (and yes, he will only get better). I think three veterans AJ, D Rob and Peek will have very good years. I think we will find a #2 CB that will be solid if not spectacular. I think we will deal with if not overcome the #2 WR spot and FS. I think if Schaub can be only a "good QB" not necessarily a great one, all other aspects of offense will be better. Injuries to key players will be reduced. Lordy, seems as if it just has to be better than last season. And no coach is fired.

BSofA04
07-17-2007, 12:44 PM
Seeing that Kubiak isn't viewed as incompetent, he'll probably be given 2 more years to turn this team around before they consider firing him. So far he's done as much as anyone could do with this team. He'll make us respectable this season and a contender two years down the road. With a great owner like McNair, good things happen to good people.

Hagar
07-17-2007, 12:48 PM
Depends on how many less we're talking about. If we go 2-14, yeah, probably some firings are coming. If we play hard and go 6-10, I'd say no firings. Itís really all up to the players. I don't expect my team to win every time, but I do expect the effort.

badboy
07-17-2007, 01:07 PM
I find it difficult to not be excited. Yes the season can and probably will hang on some of the newbies like Schaub, Green, Okoye and maybe Jacoby. I just hang my hope on how well R. Smith did last season with free agency and see no reason his judgement suddenly took a turn for the worse. I get even more excited when I think of the cap $ available next year. Samuel Assante? He might look pretty good opposite DRob, but he will prob again be assigned as this year.

red_dirt
07-17-2007, 01:07 PM
I think that firing the head coach, GM, or coordinators is going to take alot more than a 8-8 season (and rightly so). My belief is that it takes a good 3-4 years for a team to redirected by a head coach, and firing after 2 years or less is unwise. That being said, if there are enough indicators to show that a team is going nowhere then extreme mesures should be taken. I don't think anyone is proposing to fire Kubiak (are they?), but if the Texans get less than 7 wins there will be grumbling. I think he sould stay with 4 or more wins, but more importantly (as pointed out by others), we should look at how hard the team fights, especially during the losses. If he begins to change the character of this team, into a group that never quits, then they will be headed in the right direction.

Texans Horror
07-17-2007, 01:48 PM
Sure, some people could go. If the defense does not perform to expectations (and with another first-rd pick, the expectations keep getting higher), Richard Smith could be gone. But I don't think the front office will fire Kubes or Rick Smith unless something disastrous happens. They are trusting these guys to go in the right direction.

TexanSam
07-17-2007, 01:51 PM
Unless the Texans go 2-14 (or worse) again this season, I don't see Kubiak getting fired. Two years is not enough time to turn around a team, even with all the parity in the NFL these days.

brakos82
07-17-2007, 01:53 PM
The only person that (I can see) getting fired is the ST coach, maybe.

Goldensilence
07-17-2007, 01:57 PM
I think Mr. McNair can fully comprehend the importance of continuity and has learned from the early years of this franchise. If the D doesn't live up to potential i do think Richard Smith is gone,esepcially with all the investments in it right now. I think we'll make or be close to 8-8 but long as i think we see growth in the team Kubiak will be around along with Rick Smith.

powerfuldragon
07-17-2007, 02:11 PM
No.

threetoedpete
07-17-2007, 02:12 PM
Seeing that Kubiak isn't viewed as incompetent, he'll probably be given 2 more years to turn this team around before they consider firing him. So far he's done as much as anyone could do with this team. He'll make us respectable this season and a contender two years down the road. With a great owner like McNair, good things happen to good people.

I finally get to post a non negitive one. Yes agreed. Mr. McNair is still learning also. I think he realizes now just how bankrupt the first brain trust was. Wether MS makes it or not, I believe kubiak is here for a while. Considering the cap ramifactions they were under, not their fault, and not thier players btw, I think Kubes still has a very long leash. Two very good drafts and solid personal finds going into their second year, they are on the correct path. Bunch of us told ya it was going to take a couple of seasons switching the defensive scheme. The switch over should be complete next draft.


Just read Smauels and NE are still at odds at a long term deal.... don't know they'll poney up eighty million...but the point is when you're down to a few pieces to get competitive, their is multipul ways to fill a few glaring holes.

They've got the back ups in place they are not that far away. They are just missing a few key pieces. We're a lot closer now than we were when we started. Now whehter or not the fan base and the local paper will exercise paitience or not is anybody's guess.
At least we have a solid base now from which to build. Hit gold on a safty, in the draft and a high end Will the defense should be solid for many seasons.

badboy
07-17-2007, 02:24 PM
Does everyone agree that fans (not just us rabid type on MB) are willing to look past the W column for at last two more years as long as the effort is there by the players?

badboy
07-17-2007, 02:33 PM
I finally get to post a non negitive one. Yes agreed. Mr. McNair is still learning also. I think he realizes now just how bankrupt the first brain trust was. Wether MS makes it or not, I believe kubiak is here for a while. Considering the cap ramifactions they were under, not their fault, and not thier players btw, I think Kubes still has a very long leash. Two very good drafts and solid personal finds going into their second year, they are on the correct path. Bunch of us told ya it was going to take a couple of seasons switching the defensive scheme. The switch over should be complete next draft.


Just read Smauels and NE are still at odds at a long term deal.... don't know they'll poney up eighty million...but the point is when you're down to a few pieces to get competitive, their is multipul ways to fill a few glaring holes.

They've got the back ups in place they are not that far away. They are just missing a few key pieces. We're a lot closer now than we were when we started. Now whehter or not the fan base and the local paper will exercise paitience or not is anybody's guess.
At least we have a solid base now from which to build. Hit gold on a safty, in the draft and a high end Will the defense should be solid for many seasons.

I mentioned Assante on another thread earlier today. His team can just keep naming him the franchise each year and he has to stay right? I think he earns a little over 7 million this season. Is there another player on the team that might force the team to not name Assante as the franchise? I really hate to play a free agent so much but he is the type CB that should hold that position for for a whil. He will be 27 in January, however. If he would agree to a back loaded contract he could be worth a 6 to 7 year deal.

powerfuldragon
07-17-2007, 02:37 PM
for a well-trained dog, call man's best friend.

Mr. White
07-17-2007, 02:37 PM
Does everyone agree that fans (not just us rabid type on MB) are willing to look past the W column for at last two more years as long as the effort is there by the players?

I am. Especially considering the amount of control Kubes has been given. He's had to rebuild from the ground up. Seems like it might take more than 5 years for him to really get going.

I can't say the same for the average Houston football fan that doesn't hang out on message boards. I remember a "Fire Kubiak" thread on this board at midseason last year.

hollywood_texan
07-17-2007, 03:08 PM
If the Texans don't get to 8 wins this year. Several things better be demonstrated, and they are:

1. The offense is consistent and can score a fair amount of points on any Sunday, say average around 20 points a game,
2. Schuab shows he is a top 10 QB or is well on his way,
3. The defense continues improving from it's strong showing late last year, and
4. There are several tough losses that could have gone either way.

Take care of those things and the record really won't be that important.

Considering #1 though, averaging 20 points a game almost assures an 8-8 record, barring some calamity of sorts. Which is probably why the QB change was made.

Double Barrel
07-17-2007, 03:13 PM
Our fast food culture is permeating everything. Calling for a mass firing after just two seasons - regardless of record - is indicative of the instant gratification that our society craves.

I think Kubiak has a good five years before McNair even thinks of giving him the boot. We might see some shuffling around of assistants, but I doubt the HC and GM will be on the hot seat for a long time.

badboy
07-17-2007, 03:15 PM
I am. Especially considering the amount of control Kubes has been given. He's had to rebuild from the ground up. Seems like it might take more than 5 years for him to really get going.

I can't say the same for the average Houston football fan that doesn't hang out on message boards. I remember a "Fire Kubiak" thread on this board at midseason last year.Whoops, you scared me with that 5 year to really get going comment. Are you refering to the 5 year plans that so many allude to or God forbid, do you anticipate five more years to "get it going"?

hollywood_texan
07-17-2007, 04:58 PM
Our fast food culture is permeating everything. Calling for a mass firing after just two seasons - regardless of record - is indicative of the instant gratification that our society craves.

I think Kubiak has a good five years before McNair even thinks of giving him the boot. We might see some shuffling around of assistants, but I doubt the HC and GM will be on the hot seat for a long time.

DB, I agree with your overall assessment regarding our culture, meaning American society as a whole.

However, after two seasons, Kubiak should be getting the ship going in the right direction. Which means 8-8 or a very good reason why they didn't make it.

Particularly, if VY continues to light it up, and if even DC gets his career on track up at Carolina. If those things happen and Kubiak's decision to bring in Schuab is a failure, that means this QB guru is 0 for 3 in two years in evaluating/coaching QB talent.

Point is, it shouldn't take that long to sniff at 8-8 or be very competitive with what Kubiak started with and the draft picks he had available to him, while taking into consideration free agent signings opportunities.

So, agree with your assessment of our society, but I don't think it applies to a 2 year requirement of genuine progress for Kubiak and his staff.

Texanmike02
07-17-2007, 08:20 PM
I mentioned Assante on another thread earlier today. His team can just keep naming him the franchise each year and he has to stay right? I think he earns a little over 7 million this season. Is there another player on the team that might force the team to not name Assante as the franchise? I really hate to play a free agent so much but he is the type CB that should hold that position for for a whil. He will be 27 in January, however. If he would agree to a back loaded contract he could be worth a 6 to 7 year deal.

I might be wrong, but as I understand it... the franchise tag works like this:

First two years you are paid the average of the top 5 at your position.
3rd year you are paid average of top 5 in NFL
No more franchising after that point.

I could be wrong but they discussed on the afternoon blitz one time and I believe that's what they said.

Mike

Kaiser Toro
07-17-2007, 08:26 PM
Outside of Richard Smith, Hoke and Marciano I cannot see anyone in jeopardy.

BattleRedToro
07-17-2007, 08:34 PM
There are predictions all over the place, but if the team goes less than 8-8 what are ramifications? Does McNair say Kubes you've had two years and it just ain't working, good bye? If so does that open the door for our assistant head coach from Green Bay? Will injuries be allowed to be an excuse or is it wins regardless and you guys (team & management) are meeting owner's goals. Can we be 6 or 7 wins and be able to say, well we got the players in place and with all the room under cap for the next season, we will be able to close most of the holes? Will less than 8-8 cause a revolt amongst the fan base?

My opinion, focus is on the play not the wins. I want to see growth in the guys 2years and under such as Mario and Demeco (and yes, he will only get better). I think three veterans AJ, D Rob and Peek will have very good years. I think we will find a #2 CB that will be solid if not spectacular. I think we will deal with if not overcome the #2 WR spot and FS. I think if Schaub can be only a "good QB" not necessarily a great one, all other aspects of offense will be better. Injuries to key players will be reduced. Lordy, seems as if it just has to be better than last season. And no coach is fired.

I just thought I should bring it to your attention that Antwan Peek is no longer on the Texans. He is now with the Cleveland Browns.
:fans:

Texanmike02
07-17-2007, 09:00 PM
Outside of Richard Smith, Hoke and Marciano I cannot see anyone in jeopardy.

I don't even see Smith in Jeopardy really. He didn't have last draft... that was someone else's draft... so basically he had last year's off season minus the draft and the decision on DC and this years off season. From a 2-14 team who is in the process of overhauling everything but the special teams... 2 season's isn't enough in my opinion.

The more I think about it... I don't think anyone is in jeopardy really. Hoke doesn't have the tools to work with really. If kick coverage is horrible I coudl see Marciano in trouble... but you can't blame him if you don't bring in a kicker and a punter.

Mike

Kaiser Toro
07-17-2007, 09:10 PM
I don't even see Smith in Jeopardy really. He didn't have last draft... that was someone else's draft... so basically he had last year's off season minus the draft and the decision on DC and this years off season. From a 2-14 team who is in the process of overhauling everything but the special teams... 2 season's isn't enough in my opinion.

The more I think about it... I don't think anyone is in jeopardy really. Hoke doesn't have the tools to work with really. If kick coverage is horrible I coudl see Marciano in trouble... but you can't blame him if you don't bring in a kicker and a punter.

Mike

Richard Smith is the Defensive Coordinator. Rick Smith is the General Manager.

Texanmike02
07-17-2007, 10:23 PM
Richard Smith is the Defensive Coordinator. Rick Smith is the General Manager.

Ahh... well I don't think either of our R smith's are in trouble unless this is a disastrous year... and much to the surprise of some.... that means this turns into a 4 win season... I'm pretty sure if we ONLY win 11 games everyone will be safe...

:D

Kaiser Toro
07-17-2007, 10:31 PM
Ahh... well I don't think either of our R smith's are in trouble unless this is a disastrous year... and much to the surprise of some.... that means this turns into a 4 win season... I'm pretty sure if we ONLY win 11 games everyone will be safe...

:D

Since we got the back and forth going I will go ahead and say that those three are not far reaching in that Hoke and Marciano were held over from the previous regime and we did not see much improvement in either of their units, yet they were maligned with injuries; and now that Bush is here we may see him take the DC title in the future. Innuendo, yes. But in a year that I expect no drama, that is pretty close to plausible.

badboy
07-18-2007, 12:46 PM
I just thought I should bring it to your attention that Antwan Peek is no longer on the Texans. He is now with the Cleveland Browns.
:fans:Total brain freeze. I meant Babin. Thanks for correction. I may be wrong but with pressure from the big guys on the line, I think Babin will be even more effective upsetting the QB.

Second Honeymoon
07-18-2007, 01:46 PM
If Kubiak doesnt win 8 games this year and especially if Mario fails to impress he needs to be on a short leash next year. I wouldn't fire him after 2 years but I would have a quick trigger in 08. The only way I would get rid of Kubiak and Co. after a presumed bad year in 07 would be if they were 3-13 or worse or if there was a top coach willing to come and build a program (Cowher and Jimmy Johnson)

disaacks3
07-18-2007, 01:57 PM
I just thought I should bring it to your attention that Antwan Peek is no longer on the Texans. He is now with the Cleveland Browns.
:fans: Good, maybe now he can get caught up on those visits & child-support of his multiple kids (& mult. ex GF). :stirpot:

Back to the thread at hand...
I can't see anyone higher than a coordinator being let go unless we REGRESS 2 wins or more. (4-12).

maddogmrb
07-18-2007, 06:24 PM
No way there will be firings over our record unless it is only a 3-4 win season and then we have to look at injuries, etc. This team has too many holes to say it has to win at least 8 games this year.

nunusguy
07-18-2007, 07:25 PM
I think Kubiak has a good five years before McNair even thinks of giving him the boot.
Seriously DB ? Nay, you're putting us on right ?
In the even you're not, then I suggest to you that Belichick up in NE doesn't have 5 years if they are 5 straight disappointing years.
Look, if next years record regresses to say 3 or 4 wins, then IMO '08 becomes make or break for Kubiak. And its entirely possible we win only 3 or 4games next year. We could win 8 or 9 but I really think its more likely we'd lose 2 or 3 more than win 2 or 3 more than last year. The schedule is a bear.

Double Barrel
07-18-2007, 07:40 PM
Seriously DB ? Nay, you're putting us on right ?

It's Kubiak's second year and he's still anchored by $30 million in dead cap space from the previous regime. I don't think McNair is going to hold the first couple of years against him....all things considered.

Remember, this is Bob McNair we're talking about. He gave a broken QB a huge bonus/deal for a fifth year, so why would it be so hard to believe that he'd give Kubiak the benefit of the doubt? He was 2nd on the list for head coaches when McNair started the team, so I just doubt that he'd abandon him after just four years (and the first two being severely hampered by the previous staff's decisions and mistakes).

brakos82
07-18-2007, 07:56 PM
If we aren't in the playoffs by the 2009 season, then there will be a lot of firings.

nunusguy
07-18-2007, 08:11 PM
It's Kubiak's second year and he's still anchored by $30 million in dead cap space from the previous regime. I don't think McNair is going to hold the first couple of years against him....all things considered.
Remember, this is Bob McNair we're talking about. He gave a broken QB a huge bonus/deal for a fifth year, so why would it be so hard to believe that he'd give Kubiak the benefit of the doubt? He was 2nd on the list for head coaches when McNair started the team, so I just doubt that he'd abandon him after just four years (and the first two being severely hampered by the previous staff's decisions and mistakes).
Between drafting Mario (instead of VY or Bush) and making the big trade for Schaub, Kubiak agruably has already been in on more key personnel decisions than Capers ever was. And how both of those players perform this year and next is oh so important to Kubiaks furture here.
But really most important of all IMO, the Texans had a really nice grace period as an Xpansion franchise but that one-time luxury is now totally expended.
Texans fans are now very low on patience and will accept nothing less than success on the field very soon or McNair can't sell tickets and games become local blackouts. Gotta sell tickets, or he has to shake things up again.
Now that's the downside, especially if we'd have injuries and Schaub stumbles
early. But it could go the other way, and if this year goes reasonable well and
with that big free cap number waiting for the '08 FA Kubaik could also turn things around and we might finally meet those long hoped for expectations.

Texanmike02
07-19-2007, 01:22 AM
If Kubiak doesnt win 8 games this year and especially if Mario fails to impress he needs to be on a short leash next year. I wouldn't fire him after 2 years but I would have a quick trigger in 08. The only way I would get rid of Kubiak and Co. after a presumed bad year in 07 would be if they were 3-13 or worse or if there was a top coach willing to come and build a program (Cowher and Jimmy Johnson)

I can see us getting rid of Kubes for Cowher but not JJ. What has he done since he left the Las to the north? I don't however think we fire him unless things are disastrous.

badboy
07-19-2007, 10:26 AM
Between drafting Mario (instead of VY or Bush) and making the big trade for Schaub, Kubiak agruably has already been in on more key personnel decisions than Capers ever was. And how both of those players perform this year and next is oh so important to Kubiaks furture here.
But really most important of all IMO, the Texans had a really nice grace period as an Xpansion franchise but that one-time luxury is now totally expended.
Texans fans are now very low on patience and will accept nothing less than success on the field very soon or McNair can't sell tickets and games become local blackouts. Gotta sell tickets, or he has to shake things up again.
Now that's the downside, especially if we'd have injuries and Schaub stumbles
early. But it could go the other way, and if this year goes reasonable well and
with that big free cap number waiting for the '08 FA Kubaik could also turn things around and we might finally meet those long hoped for expectations.

Scenario:

Mario has a repeat of last season in productivity and turf toe (could re-occur).

Ahmad Green has an empty tank (See Astros pitchers Williams & Jennings).

Schaub is just an ok QB in his 1st year and Oline is better only than a sieve.

Demeco suffers an injury costing several games (this happened 06 other players.

Okoye takes 4-5 games to become solid starter & like Mario 06 has an "ok" year.

Dayne starts out ok but due to increase in carries due to flame out by Green, he wears out or suffers injury.

Any of these are entirely possible and could cause us to have a low win season. Maybe depth is there to keep ship afloat, maybe not. There were a lot of no shows last year and McNair is very much a business man. I think this could be a make or break season for Kubes but I doubt it. I will cross my fingers and say we are going to be all right. I wish I may. I wish I might.

DocBar
07-19-2007, 11:19 AM
Like a lot y'all, I'm going to be looking at the competiveness of our team. If we're getting outcoached or not preparing/game planning well, etc..., I think Kubes could be in trouble. If it's lack of talent, that can be identified and compensated for, either during the season or in the offseason. Under Capers, we were constantly outcoached and under Kubes, we were outcoached a couple of times. I want to see some halftime adjustments this year. In 5 years, the other teams have always made the proper adjustments while we kept on doing the same old same old. IMO, those adjustments will have some of the biggest impacts on our won-lost columns.
:fans:

Kaiser Toro
07-19-2007, 11:32 AM
Local boys who in their first year see 300% improvement in the win column while taking the ball out of their top salaried player's hands is a coach that you want here for you years to come.

Giving an all in look to the entire season I cannot fathom how anyone would say that Kubiak was out coached. In my opinion he was out "personelled."

Kubiak is the best thing we got going and largely why this fan carries optimism into this year.

Double Barrel
07-19-2007, 12:17 PM
Between drafting Mario (instead of VY or Bush) and making the big trade for Schaub, Kubiak agruably has already been in on more key personnel decisions than Capers ever was. And how both of those players perform this year and next is oh so important to Kubiaks furture here.
But really most important of all IMO, the Texans had a really nice grace period as an Xpansion franchise but that one-time luxury is now totally expended.
Texans fans are now very low on patience and will accept nothing less than success on the field very soon or McNair can't sell tickets and games become local blackouts. Gotta sell tickets, or he has to shake things up again.
Now that's the downside, especially if we'd have injuries and Schaub stumbles
early. But it could go the other way, and if this year goes reasonable well and
with that big free cap number waiting for the '08 FA Kubaik could also turn things around and we might finally meet those long hoped for expectations.

A couple of facts first:

1. McNair made the decision to resign Carr. With our starting QB in place, no way was Vince Young even an option to be drafted by this team.

2. McNair made the call on Reggie Bush. Deals were offered to both Bush and Mario, but the owner wanted a deal completed prior to the draft. Bush was holding out, Mario signed, so that's purely an owner decision.

3. The Texans have well over 60,000 tickets sold as season tickets. Texans fans are not quitting the team, at least not yet.

So that brings us to Kubiak's true first big decision: Matt Schaub. And what can we say? We needed a new QB. Either through the draft or FA, there was no other way. Drafting a kid means setting us back, just to allow enough time for a rookie to acclimate himself to the NFL (something we know about as Texans fans). FA was really the only option here, and it was not the greatest year to pick up a QB (other than Schaub, IMO). Plummer? Garcia? Culpepper? NONE of these guys are worth a darn right now, as evidenced by none of them having a starting job.

So I just don't see McNair cutting Kubiak no slack. We finally beat the Colts, ended the season on a two game win streak, and won the last game of the season (sadly, firsts for this organization in five seasons). We are on our way up, however slowly that progress might be. But because we are still suffering from really poor judgement and decisions of the previous staff, next off-season will be Kubiak & Company's first real chance to 'start from scratch', although with a roster that will already have a lot of his players on it.

If we have an owner that is in it for immediate gratification, then we should expect a revolving door at our head coach position. Sure he only gave Capers four seasons (five years with our expansion year), but the wheels were falling off the wagon when the head coach is firing the OC just two games into a new season. It was quite evident that the Capers era was coming to a quick end, and the writing was clearly on the wall.

Anyway, we'll have to respectfully agree to disagree at the end of the day. I'm not going to be calling for Kubiak's head anytime soon, and I honestly believe that he's going to be here for decades because he's putting together a program that will have winning results in the long term. But I don't eat fast food, either, so I do not demand instant gratification with a stipulation that I'll quit the team if it doesn't happen. I will be renewing my season tickets for decades to come (God willing), and I'm a Texans fan for life, regardless if it takes way too long to find success.

DocBar
07-19-2007, 12:47 PM
Local boys who in their first year see 300% improvement in the win column while taking the ball out of their top salaried player's hands is a coach that you want here for you years to come.

Giving an all in look to the entire season I cannot fathom how anyone would say that Kubiak was out coached. In my opinion he was out "personelled."

Kubiak is the best thing we got going and largely why this fan carries optimism into this year.
Kubes was outcoached several times last year. Also had some questionable play calling and clock management to spice things up. I put most of that down to being a rookie HC. He was definetely "outpersonelled" last year. IMO, it was a combination of being a rookie and having questionable talent at key positions that led to him being outcoached. There were several threads on this topic last season. I'm not bashing Kubes at all. I think this year will be a great one for the Texans.

The Pencil Neck
07-19-2007, 12:50 PM
Kubes was outcoached several times last year. Also had some questionable play calling and clock management to spice things up. I put most of that down to being a rookie HC. He was definetely "outpersonelled" last year. IMO, it was a combination of being a rookie and having questionable talent at key positions that led to him being outcoached. There were several threads on this topic last season. I'm not bashing Kubes at all. I think this year will be a great one for the Texans.

I think he was making some of those questionable calls to minimize damage. I think he didn't trust Carr to run the 2-minute offense the way he wanted it run. When he did let Carr run the 2-minute offense, he fumbled the ball and it was returned for a TD.

threetoedpete
07-19-2007, 02:52 PM
Total brain freeze. I meant Babin. Thanks for correction. I may be wrong but with pressure from the big guys on the line, I think Babin will be even more effective upsetting the QB.

See we have are own expectations of players. What in the name of God makes you think Jason Babins is going to get any quicker with his first step, any stronger, any smarter, than he hasn't already demonstrated to us ? I'll agree with you that the added presure from the other two should elevate his stats. But what makes you think that his skill set has improved this off season that he is going to win more than five or six match ups one on one this season ? Sorry I don't see it. CC and Capers missed on the guy's first step. I dunno and I ain't in the loop, but I gotta believe that was one of the reason for the scouting shake up. Let me post it one more time, cap freindly contract and all, he isn't Kevin Green. He will never be Kevin Green . He's about a hundred and forty five sacks short and running out of a career to chatch 'ol Kevin. Babins is much too leaky a vessel to put all that hope in.

badboy
07-19-2007, 03:15 PM
See we have are own expectations of players. What in the name of God makes you think Jason Babins is going to get any quicker with his first step, any stronger, any smarter, than he hasn't already demonstrated to us ? I'll agree with you that the added presure from the other two should elevate his stats. But what makes you think that his skill set has improved this off season that he is going to win more than five or six match ups one on one this season ? Sorry I don't see it. CC and Capers missed on the guy's first step. I dunno and I ain't in the loop, but I gotta believe that was one of the reason for the scouting shake up. Let me post it one more time, cap freindly contract and all, he isn't Kevin Green. He will never be Kevin Green . He's about a hundred and forty five sacks short and running out of a career to chatch 'ol Kevin. Babins is much too leaky a vessel to put all that hope in.He does not have to improve skill sets to be more effective. I do see the new improved Dline tying up more of the offense this season. I also see a few more blitz plays from LB and CB which may also help Babin. QB sacks first 3 years: 4, 4, 5 (06). Doesn't take much elevation to have a good year. He does not have to be K. Green to be very successful. I think you might be focusing on Babin against whomever. I look at it as improved defense that wiil allow individual components to improve. Same might be said for offense. Green improves the O line, the QB and receivers. Same has been said about Schaub.

threetoedpete
07-19-2007, 03:16 PM
I mentioned Assante on another thread earlier today. His team can just keep naming him the franchise each year and he has to stay right? I think he earns a little over 7 million this season. Is there another player on the team that might force the team to not name Assante as the franchise? I really hate to play a free agent so much but he is the type CB that should hold that position for for a whil. He will be 27 in January, however. If he would agree to a back loaded contract he could be worth a 6 to 7 year deal.

Firstly I'm not advocatcing giving a twenty-eight year old player a 7-10 million dollar a year contract. I mean if we we're a high end CB away from making a legitimate SB run that would be one thing. I dunno and I ain't in the loop, but it looks to me by their '07 draft choices....they're going to do the exact oposite of what the last regime did and let young players develope. Which means they'll take the high end second teired FAs if they are a value and let their draft choices develope. There is nothing worng with the Jacob Jones' Brandon Frye's of the football world. You just have to have the paitience to let them develope. TBS, they still need a high end OLT and a quality young center...if Frye isn't the guy at center. Next year is suppose to be a bad year for FS. So....that is where I would expect them to go high with the cap dollars next off season, Not CB. They just drafted one. And they are short a FS. Plus they, Free Saties, are a heck of alot cheaper than the front line 80 mill FA CBs.

And for the record....The Wolf in New England has never held anyone hostage if they want to go. He may Tag Samuels this season, but the guy is holding two ones for the next draft. Belichik will simply go out and draft a guy if Samuels is no longer interested in the rings. He won't franchise Samuels twice. Samuels agent should realize that he is only hurting his clintent with a ten game hold out. Belichek doesn't over pay for expensive palyers. No matter how good they are. He repalces them.

DocBar
07-19-2007, 03:17 PM
I think he was making some of those questionable calls to minimize damage. I think he didn't trust Carr to run the 2-minute offense the way he wanted it run. When he did let Carr run the 2-minute offense, he fumbled the ball and it was returned for a TD.

That's a plausible answer to some but not all the questionable calls. I'm not trying to bash Kubes. I just think he had some definite growing pains as a rookie HC. If this year ends up being '05 revisited, I think we'll see a mass exodus of position coaches and/or coordinators, NOT Kubiak.
I'm juiced for TC to begin. I can't WAIT to see how offseason additions come together. I'm thinking 1st NON-LOSING season, as a minimum.

threetoedpete
07-19-2007, 03:21 PM
He does not have to improve skill sets to be more effective. I do see the new improved Dline tying up more of the offense this season. I also see a few more blitz plays from LB and CB which may also help Babin. QB sacks first 3 years: 4, 4, 5 (06). Doesn't take much elevation to have a good year. He does not have to be K. Green to be very successful. I think you might be focusing on Babin against whomever. I look at it as improved defense that wiil allow individual components to improve. Same might be said for offense. Green improves the O line, the QB and receivers. Same has been said about Schaub.

Let me be more clear. He does not have the skill set to win one on one matcups.

The Pencil Neck
07-19-2007, 03:40 PM
That's a plausible answer to some but not all the questionable calls.

That's why I said "some". :shades: