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TexanSam
07-14-2007, 11:19 PM
Who, in your opinion, is the worst player in franchise history? There's bundles to choose from, but who do you think is the worst.

It came down between Victor Riley and Matt Stevens for me but I have to go with Stevens. If he's not one of the worst safety's ever to play in the NFL, he's pretty darn close.

Bull Pen 1
07-14-2007, 11:59 PM
Ok, I'll say it, how about a few:

Tony Bosolli
Phillip Bucannon
id arr

Who, in your opinion, is the worst player in franchise history? There's bundles to choose from, but who do you think is the worst.

It came down between Victor Riley and Matt Stevens for me but I have to go with Stevens. If he's not one of the worst safety's ever to play in the NFL, he's pretty darn close.

Koolaid Time
07-15-2007, 12:19 AM
I have to go with Travis Johnson.

Why he is still on the team amazes me...

Andrew6
07-15-2007, 12:38 AM
Tony Bosolli

are we talking about for the texans?

Hervoyel
07-15-2007, 12:51 AM
I think you should establish at least one piece of criteria before making this call. I think the player must have appeared in at least 32 games (two full seasons worth) or started at least 16 games in order to be considered.

I've never considered Boselli a Texan so I couldn't say that about him. Also I think that if he could have played he would have played and he would have instantly been our best offensive lineman ever.

Victor Riley didn't appear in enough games to count in my opinion. Matt Stevens was pretty bad but I have always felt that he was the scape goat for a poor bunch of linebackers. I'm not saying he wasn't a bad safety. There was a reason why Stevens was available in the expansion draft. I just think that he was the "finisher" on a lot of bad plays that started coming apart long before he got involved.

Phillip Buchanon might be my choice but he was only here for one season and only appeared in 10 games. If I wasn't looking for someone with at least 16 starts or 32 games played in then Phillip would definitely be the guy.

Since I am looking for someone who was here a while I'm going to go with boneheaded Jay Foreman. The "weak link" of our LB's. He had a ton of tackles and almost all of them were 3-5 yards farther back than you would have wanted. When he left here he couldn't make the roster in Oakland, then latched on to the Giants followed by the 49ers. Sum total accomplishments since leaving here? 3 games appeared in and one tackle. He doesn't sack anybody, pick anybody, or stop anybody.

We started him for what? three years?

If it's not Jay Foreman then Stevens gets it. If Schaub just tears it up next year then I think you could make a case for David Carr getting it.

Koolaid Time
07-15-2007, 01:05 AM
Since I am looking for someone who was here a while I'm going to go with boneheaded Jay Foreman. The "weak link" of our LB's. He had a ton of tackles and almost all of them were 3-5 yards farther back than you would have wanted. When he left here he couldn't make the roster in Oakland, then latched on to the Giants followed by the 49ers. Sum total accomplishments since leaving here? 3 games appeared in and one tackle. He doesn't sack anybody, pick anybody, or stop anybody.

We started him for what? three years?

Weak link... try "Missing Link".....

If he couldn't make the roster for the Raiders then... he was truly worthless

But I think he did qualify for NFL Pension benefits...

Wolf
07-15-2007, 01:22 AM
depends on contract wise to performance wise

Jermaine lewis was making some cheese
todd wade was making some cheese also

more players than that


and i am not trying to pick on them for it was the team that paid them that

Andrew6
07-15-2007, 01:22 AM
worst player last year, jameel cook, 2 bad plays cost to games

mancunian
07-15-2007, 07:35 AM
Stevens for me followed by PBuc.

Wasn't convinced by Robaire Smith either - dont remember him doing much for the cash he was given. And what about Todd Wade?

HJam72
07-15-2007, 08:26 AM
I gotta go with PBuc, if his 10 games count.

I have a possible defense for Foreman (albeit a weak one):

Foreman was IIRC aging and losing stepS. The way I remember it (and I could just be wrong), he wasn't so bad for the first couple of years, but got old and too slow in a hurry. Or, maybe it just took me a while to notice his ineptitude. I was pretty lenient those first 2.5 years, as long as the team seemed to be improving overall.

A few other possibilities:

Wand, McKinney (at center, but he's apparently gotten better), Mack, Bradford, Cook, Babin, Peak, last year's SAM, last year's #2 corner (names starting not to come to me), CC Brown at FS, etc.

aj.
07-15-2007, 08:54 AM
On offense, it's a tie between Demingo Graham and Jimmy Herndon. On defense, I'll go with Matt Stevens or Travis Johnson.

The1ApplePie
07-15-2007, 09:15 AM
Jabar Gaffney

Chosen at the top of a very good 2nd round in 2002. The worst part being that he was taken over Clinton Portis.

Travis Johnson
Bust

sakebomb
07-15-2007, 09:34 AM
Stevens was bad but like it was said before he was expansion draft material. Expectations weren't very high for him.

I'm thinking P-Burnt or Babin. The reason being is that the expectations for these guys was very high and what they cost us. There definitely has been worse players on this team but we gave up a lot of picks for these two guys.

I might even mention Carr because of him being the #1 pick and not panning out for us.

nunusguy
07-15-2007, 09:36 AM
Tough question, a real stumper since there's been so many.

techrecruit1
07-15-2007, 11:14 AM
Tony Bosolli - without hesitation

Goldensilence
07-15-2007, 12:11 PM
Jabar Gaffney

Chosen at the top of a very good 2nd round in 2002. The worst part being that he was taken over Clinton Portis.

Travis Johnson
Bust

I would put him in the mix, i'm leary of Florida WRs.

I'll go with Stevens though.

Here's to hoping Travis shows up this year. I don't think anyone liked that pick.

prostock101
07-15-2007, 12:25 PM
Buchanon hands down. When he leaped out of the way of a charging Larry Johnson at the goal line that pretty much sealed it for me.

aj.
07-15-2007, 12:44 PM
Buchanon hands down. When he leaped out of the way of a charging Larry Johnson at the goal line that pretty much sealed it for me.

That was 209 lb. Willie Parker....unless I'm forgetting another one.

I could somewhat understand him not wanting to front a charging 230 lb LJ, but even that's unforgiveable. Dive at his ankles or something....

NFL-N has been replaying that Packers-Raiders game from a couple years back - the one where Favre's dad had just passed away and Favre, Driver, Walker and the rest were making toast out of P-burnt all night long. For return on 'investment' P-burnt is right up there. It's definitely a Top 5 bonehead front office move - and that's a tough Top 5 list to get on considering all the candidates.

PapaL
07-15-2007, 01:04 PM
Stevens - no contest. /thread

Brando
07-15-2007, 01:07 PM
Stevens was bad but P-Burnt is definitely right up there. I will not include Boselli since he didn't even play a down.

prostock101
07-15-2007, 01:16 PM
I believe Buchanon carefully avoided Parker too. It was so obvious when he got of the way of LJ that it really stuck in my mind......

TK_Gamer
07-15-2007, 01:37 PM
buchannon made some plays, stevens made some plays too, on a daily basis I would have to go with jermaine lewis, he was pretty much worthless from day 1. worthless as a reciever worthless as a returner.

TexanSam
07-15-2007, 02:30 PM
I'll also add Marcus Coleman into the mix when he was converted into a safety. As a corner, he was not that bad. But when he became a safety he was horrible.

Heath Shuler
07-15-2007, 05:47 PM
In no particular order, I probably cussed Matt Stevens, P-burnt, Travis Johnson and Carr the most during games. Overall I would have to give it to P-burnt because he was a quitter and I hate quitters. At least Stevens was giving it his best effort, P-burnt stole his check. The Texans should have cleaned out his locker before the Pittsburgh game was over just to send a message to the rest of the team.

281
07-15-2007, 08:10 PM
matt stevens. period.

Yankee_In_TX
07-15-2007, 08:49 PM
W/out the added criteria, Joppru. The glass man.

Wolf
07-15-2007, 08:53 PM
W/out the added criteria, Joppru. The glass man.

there are two others that i am suprised that haven't been mentioned yet

real
07-15-2007, 08:56 PM
David Carr. period. the end.

He wasn't the worst talent wise nor effort wise, but no other player has had such a tremendously bad impact on our team, fans and F.O....As a whole David Carr has been the biggest let down therefore making him the worst Texans player IMHO....

Wolf
07-15-2007, 08:59 PM
and now down to one I am suprised that hasn't been mentioned
(but I imagine when the season starts, he gets grilled)

real
07-15-2007, 09:01 PM
NFL-N has been replaying that Packers-Raiders game from a couple years back - the one where Favre's dad had just passed away and Favre, Driver, Walker and the rest were making toast out of P-burnt all night long.

I actually saw this re-play about two days ago...

The Raiders actually pulled P-such after the first half because of his terrible play...

sakebomb
07-15-2007, 09:08 PM
I'm watching the replay of the Packer - Raider game right now. He is horrible.

Heath Shuler
07-15-2007, 10:32 PM
and now down to one I am suprised that hasn't been mentioned
(but I imagine when the season starts, he gets grilled)

Chad Stanley?

Wolf
07-15-2007, 11:03 PM
nice you got it

Texans_Chick
07-15-2007, 11:16 PM
As it relates to the origins of the franchise, I believe in the first rule of Italian driving as articulated in the classic movie, Gumball Rally:

Franco: "And now my friend, the first-a rule of Italian driving."
[Franco rips off his rear-view mirror and throws it out of the car]
Franco: "What's-a behind me is not important."

My brain has limited room. I would prefer not to clutter it up with too many painful memories.

Unfortunately, there is no real mind eraser, so I imagine my mind as a library, and the painful books go up on the shelf, learned from but hopefully not revisited too much.

TexanSam
07-15-2007, 11:27 PM
nice you got it

Don't let CabbageFerguson see that!

TexansSeminole
07-15-2007, 11:29 PM
Probably David Carr or Phillip Bucahanon.

beerlover
07-16-2007, 12:41 AM
David Carr. if Mario Williams isn't careful he could be next. why? because these guys are both #1 overall picks & there where better options available both in 02 (Peppers) & 06 (Vince Young/Reggie Bush). worst in reflection against what the Texans should have evaulated. 2nd, 3rd & latter round picks being more speculative. Free agents & trades are another matter since they come with a proven track record so you should have a better idea what your gonna get. So with that train of thought the player who was given the chance to start & make a significant difference, was paid big free agent money & sucked, really sucked was RT Todd Wade, by all measures the worst player in franchise history. http://www.redskins.com/uploads/photos/perm/main/OJGFPDGDJNOJ/51333167wade2inside.jpg

cc_me
07-16-2007, 01:13 AM
That was 209 lb. Willie Parker....unless I'm forgetting another one.

I could somewhat understand him not wanting to front a charging 230 lb LJ, but even that's unforgiveable. Dive at his ankles or something....

NFL-N has been replaying that Packers-Raiders game from a couple years back - the one where Favre's dad had just passed away and Favre, Driver, Walker and the rest were making toast out of P-burnt all night long. For return on 'investment' P-burnt is right up there. It's definitely a Top 5 bonehead front office move - and that's a tough Top 5 list to get on considering all the candidates.

Lord, I was at that horrendous game. Almost all of Favres' TD's were in front of me. P-Burnt was HORRIBLE!!! Actually our whole D was HORRIBLE! I still can't believe you guys took P-Burnt off our hands. We have improved a bit since then:d:

The1ApplePie
07-16-2007, 08:36 AM
Who can forget Benni Joppuru? Oh right, everyone!

mancunian
07-16-2007, 08:40 AM
I dont think we saw enough of Bennie Joppru to say he was the worst player. The guy had talent but was just injured all the time. I'd put him in with the Boselli fella.

Kaiser Toro
07-16-2007, 09:26 AM
It would be between David Carr, Todd Wade, Gary Walker and Robaire Smith for me.

BigTimeTexanFan
07-16-2007, 09:31 AM
I cannot put Gary Walker on that list. Even though he was highly dissapointing after he "got paid", that first year, he was a monster for our D. But not one of the worst players for our franchise.

Kaiser Toro
07-16-2007, 09:41 AM
I cannot put Gary Walker on that list. Even though he was highly dissapointing after he "got paid", that first year, he was a monster for our D. But not one of the worst players for our franchise.

Depends how you look at it. I look at it from a value standpoint. His contract has been on our payroll for years with nothing to show for it. In business that is called productivity per head and that head has been counter productive to us for some time.

BigTimeTexanFan
07-16-2007, 09:47 AM
Yeah, I get that. But we have such a long list of terrible players that I can't see putting him on there because at some point, he was one of our best players. He is 25% of the people we have sent to the pro bowl.

hadaad
07-16-2007, 11:15 AM
Robaire Smith, Victor Riley, Matt Stevens, James Allen.

Probably in that order.

ArlingtonTexan
07-16-2007, 04:49 PM
The guy who fans really forget is Ryan Young. He was taken to be the other bookend tackle. He came from the Jets with a reputation as an upcoming tackle and between injury and flatout not playing well, the revolving door at ORT happened as well problems at OLT. If he had panned out to even being a decent right tackle instead of one year and out bust, the texans could have done more to slide protection to the left etc.

Texan_Bill
07-16-2007, 05:05 PM
The guy who fans really forget is Ryan Young. He was taken to be the other bookend tackle. He came from the Jets with a reputation as an upcoming tackle and between injury and flatout not playing well, the revolving door at ORT happened as well problems at OLT. If he had panned out to even being a decent right tackle instead of one year and out bust, the texans could have done more to slide protection to the left etc.

I didn't forget about Ryan Young. Between he and Boselli - we were supposed to be 'set' at tackle... :rolleyes:

and Hadaad, the only one on your list that I disagreed with was James Allen. All things considered, 812 total yards (519 rushing and 302 receiving), wasn't that bad - for 'that' offense. Can't put that on James Allen - I mean, we started Jimmy Herndon at right tackle, our #1 and #2 receivers were Corey Bradford and Jabar Gaffney (in fact, I would put these two ahead of Allen) - so I ask you, how good is your running game going to be?

Kaiser Toro
07-16-2007, 05:22 PM
fyi...

This Day In Texans History
July 16, 2003 - LT Tony Boselli announces his retirement from football. The Texans had selected Bosell in in the 2002 expansion draft, however, Boselli never recovered from a left shoulder injury that placed him on the I.R. list in 2001 while at Jacksonville and with the Texans in October 2002. A five-time Pro Bowler, Boselli never played a down in a Texans uniform.

Texan_Bill
07-16-2007, 05:25 PM
And the masses wept.... :rolleyes:

Double Barrel
07-16-2007, 05:41 PM
Weird part (for me) was that when we had no hometown team, I really paid a lot of attention to other teams. Boselli was a throwback guy, a player that seemed to represent football players from a bygone era. He was tough and had the look of a lineman that would protect his QB at all costs. I was stoked when we first picked him, believing like the rest of us that we were building from the trenches up. Obviously, things did not work out, and he's probably my biggest disappointment with the team so far.

ArlingtonTexan
07-16-2007, 06:02 PM
Weird part (for me) was that when we had no hometown team, I really paid a lot of attention to other teams. Boselli was a throwback guy, a player that seemed to represent football players from a bygone era. He was tough and had the look of a lineman that would protect his QB at all costs. I was stoked when we first picked him, believing like the rest of us that we were building from the trenches up. Obviously, things did not work out, and he's probably my biggest disappointment with the team so far.

The story has been told that the Texans never tried to build an OL. That's not the case. They tried and between poor judgement, injury with a sprinkling of bad luck, the organization never got the job done.