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View Full Version : Reasons why this isn't a playoff year


Texanmike02
07-13-2007, 01:33 AM
Again, I'l apologize in advance... its long.. and may not appeal to anyone.. but this is how bad I'm jonsing for some football discussion:

Ok we see a bunch of guys picking 9-11 win seasons. I have been reading alot about this team and their acquisitions and it just doesn't add up. Sure Kubes tows the company line, and says he expects to make a push (actually earlier he wasn't saying that) and of course the Texans are going to try to sell tickets THIS year, which means they aren't going to come out and say "we're targeting 08/09 to make the playoffs"... but many of their actions point to this being a developmental year... one in which they don't expect to make the playoffs, but rather they expect to make improvements in personnel and the system.... not so much worrying about the win total.

Consider the holes we have left in this team...

1. SS, I know I know... we beat Manning for the first time. But do you really expect to beat them with our secondary? Talk up the D-line (I'll get to that in a minute) all you want... but this secondary is going to be, for the 3rd year running, awful. Other than DR.. I don't think anybody starting in our secondary would even be guaranteed a backup job on half the teams in the league. We've got a nickel and dime back (Faggins and Fletcher) and two guys who are horrible at deep zone coverage and providing safety help (Earl and Brown).. in a division where you have to face one of the top 5 qb's I've ever watched play with my own eyes; twice.

2. OL, You made some nice additions... but I don't care what Kubes says... we're waiting to see what happens to Spencer. If this was a year in which we were aiming to make the playoffs.. we don't wait on Spencer. We go get ourselves a Tackle in the draft (prob trade down.. or pick one up later in the draft.) I like Black and all... and maybe I'm wrong... but it seems to me like we're waiting to see if Spencer pans out.

3. Wr, Instead of looking at an OT (I don't recall who was available in the 3rd round to be onest) we take a project WR. A guy who it would appear to me, if he is a long term solution, is at least a year or two away from winning. The best we can come up with are two guys who share a name with Andre, and I'm not really thinking the Andre and Andre show is really going to be much more exciting than the Andre Johnson show and Johnson and Johnson is already been done... we're sounds like a sponsor for the power puff league if you ask me. Walters... meh... maybe... but I'm pretty sure that no DC's are burning the midnight oil wondering how they are going to cover both AJ AND Kevin at the same time.

4. RB, I know we brought in Green. But I still think he's a system guy. He's only guaranteed 6.5 mil, and we have to expect him to get hurt (again). I would bet he's here to teach the system... mentor the kids and show them how you prepare to win in this league. There is a reason that Green Bay let him go, and they are kind of in a win now mode since their franchise star is in his last year or two, but they are prepared to go into the season with, get this, Vernand Morency, listed as their #1 back right now.

5. DL: Its the cool thing to talk about Amobe like he's going to make a difference this year... and he might... but you brought this kid in for the future. There were several players who could make an immediate impact this year at either the WR/DB/RB position THIS year. Don't get me a wrong... I'm a fan of building from the inside out... and I think that we've finally got a direction and a legit plan... But he's going to spend this year learning how the big boys play. He, like most of this team... is going to look brilliant at times... and others he's going to look like we have two Courtney Browns on this team. He was brought in to DEVELOP with MW... no to register a combined 25 sacks this year. If we were trying to make a playoff push this year I don't think we'd be relying on Amobe.

6. LB: There were a few in the draft.. and several in free agency and two or 3 legit 1st or 2nd stringers on our roster. Ryans is NICE.. and he's SMART... but he doesn't run a 2.4 40... which means he can't cover the entire field... We're weak at either OLB position and outside of him and Greenwood... we don't have a guy who has had over 80 tackles in the last 3 years (edit Danny Clark has... forgot about him... but last year with the Raiders, in 16 games he turned in a whopping 29 tackles).

Other things I think point to an 08/09 run for the playoffs:

1. Matt Schaub:

1st year starter, 1st year in this system (I know he has played in a similar system since his H.S. days but still a new system). He will be good. He might be great... but not this year. Its a move in another direction.. and I've said it before... our first 6 games would have been more smooth if we kept DC and let him take a pounding while Schaub gets his bearings.

We have added ALOT of young guys... via draft and signings... and the guys we've added that are vets... like Zgonina and Wynn... etc are either on the downside of their carer or they are in the league because they are smart... and clipboard type guys. We didn't go add a big performer in my opinion... we added depth... and we added vets to teach these young guys we do have how to play. (anybody notice a change in DR's play once we lost Glenn?). Again I think these are great moves.... among the many mistakes made in handling HWWDNSO and many of our other young players... was that they didn't really have guys to mentor them. Tony Banks? please... Sharper wasn't the same player when he left... but our defense fell apart when he and Glenn were gone.... in part, I think because there was noone to teach these kids how to prepare.

We had to know we were getting Schaub... or at least we weren't going to go for Carr again... that was pretty much written in stone... but we released Moulds? I know he hasn't gotten many phone calls... but I'm pretty sure he gets one before any of the other WR's not named Andre Johnson on our roster. Again... you probably have to find out if Walters is the answer... I'm not sold... but then again I'm not even paid to write my opinion even on a website or a newspaper... much less to make personnel decisions... so I could be completely wrong... this is just the vibe I get from the way the off season is going...

Bash away...

Mike

quicksilver
07-13-2007, 02:11 AM
I'm not gonna bash. I think your reasoning is sound, Mike. And it's fine with me for Smith and Kubiak to build our team. I don't have to have a banner season this year. I like how they're developing our team. As Kubiak said last year, there are too many holes to fill with one draft. It will take at least one, and probably two more drafts/offseasons to really get this team right. I'll not criticize the Texans for not effectively addressing the secondary. I expect them to do so next season. I'm not disappointed with how they've handled every other area on the team--get pieces to develop into quality players a year or two down the road.

Now, having said all that, I look at last season's 6-10 record and think what could have been without Jameel Cook losing two games for us, or last season's QB fumbling away TDs for the opposing D. What if we had actually had a passing attack in the last 10 games of last year?

How close we came to a notably better record last season together with this year's upgrade at QB, RB, DT, and depth leave me optimistic for this season, knowing that we are a good two seasons from attaining any kind of peak.

The Pencil Neck
07-13-2007, 02:14 AM
I haven't read your entire message and I'm not predicting a 9 to 11 win season (only 8-8) but I will say this:

You can take any team and go through and list off a bunch of "bad" things like this. Even the Colts and Patriots. Every team has strengths and weaknesses. There is no team, ever, that has been totally perfect from top to bottom. Take a look at the teams that were contending for playoff spots last year: the Titans were a bad team and almost got in. The Chiefs were a bad team with a tired running back and a shell-shocked QB and mediocre defense that a lot of people were expecting to pound the Colts because of the Colts' bad run defense. The Giants were a team imploding. The Seahawks didn't even have a secondary by the end of the year.

There's really usually a fairly fine line between a good team and a bad team. Our team is better this year than last year and we were just 5-6 plays from being in contention for a playoff. We've made improvements to the team and quite possibly haven't made any steps back except possibly with the WR's.

So, sure. We've got a lot of weaknesses. But if we play with guts and with heart and with brains, we'll be able to make some noise.

Carr Bombed
07-13-2007, 02:22 AM
I'm not going to bash away. Alot of that made perfectly good sense and they are legit concerns. You would have to be a blind homer to ignore those concerns.

I'm just going to submit a old saying......"Things are never as good as they seem and they're never as bad as the seem either"

Half of your concerns will probably be alieved by the end of the year, but half will probably stick as well. Which is why I think we will be around .500 this year.

Next year is the year the Texans will have the financial fortitude/experience to fill major holes and make a major push for the playoffs.

brakos82
07-13-2007, 02:36 AM
Super Bowl XLV!

Texanmike02
07-13-2007, 02:44 AM
I haven't read your entire message and I'm not predicting a 9 to 11 win season (only 8-8) but I will say this:

You can take any team and go through and list off a bunch of "bad" things like this. Even the Colts and Patriots. Every team has strengths and weaknesses. There is no team, ever, that has been totally perfect from top to bottom. Take a look at the teams that were contending for playoff spots last year: the Titans were a bad team and almost got in. The Chiefs were a bad team with a tired running back and a shell-shocked QB and mediocre defense that a lot of people were expecting to pound the Colts because of the Colts' bad run defense. The Giants were a team imploding. The Seahawks didn't even have a secondary by the end of the year.

There's really usually a fairly fine line between a good team and a bad team. Our team is better this year than last year and we were just 5-6 plays from being in contention for a playoff. We've made improvements to the team and quite possibly haven't made any steps back except possibly with the WR's.

So, sure. We've got a lot of weaknesses. But if we play with guts and with heart and with brains, we'll be able to make some noise.

Well first of all... I think that the signs point to management not thinking this is going to be a banner year and I know you can overcome deficiencies.. but what do we overcome deficiencies with?

Look at how teams overcome their deficiencies:

Colts average defense at best (although once they got healthy.. they were borderline amazing in the playoffs).. they control the game with the offense...

Bears - offensively they might be the only team that has been as inept as the Texans for the last 5 years - they have a great defense... especially front 7.

Cheifs - for all of their weaknesses... they still have LJ.

Eagles - they make up for a bad wr corps with brian westbrook and mcnabb.. to go with a defense that is consistently one of the top 10 in the league.

I could go on... but most teams that are .500 or better teams, while they have deficiencies, have an identity or something they do reallly really well. This team doesn't have that yet.. AJ only makes up for so much.

I believe that in most cases (you can cite the colts and rams if you like... but I'll just say I said MOST not ALL)... that there are 3 fundamental areas you have to excel in if you expect to win football games:

Force turnovers
Run the ball
Stop the run

I'm not saying you have to have a marquee runner (I think i wrote about that a while ago actually) but I am saying that you have to run the ball and stop the run.

You can make up for one deficiency or the other (Indy has a very efficient ground game to go with Manning) but not both. It becomes a matter of ball time. Know why we beat them last year? We won the turnover battle... and we almost doubled their rushing yards and we had the a 35/24 time of possession advantage. Correct me if I'm wrong but I do believe that's the first time in 10 meetings that we've ever had an advantage in TOP.

Unfortunately... I don't see us doing any of those especially well this year. We may be good against the run... maybe... but we finished tied for 2nd to last with 19 forced turnovers. As for running the ball... I don't think Green holds up all year... and I don't think we have another rb on the roster who can run full time... or by committee for that matter.

But you and I both just get on here and like to pretend like we know what's going on :texflag:

I wasn't really trying to look at the football reasons themselves though... more I was trying to look at the moves themselves and see what they signal. Would I be shocked if we won 7 games? no... If a few balls bounce our ways.. we might even win 8... but I think that's the absolute ceiling for this team... I've said it alot... I think this team will start out a 2 or 3 win team at the beginning of the year with all of the youth and relative newness of things... but by the end of the year they will be an 8-8 team who has developed some of the young talent they have and also has money to go after free agents next season when they do poise to make a meaningful run at the playoffs.

Mike

maddogmrb
07-13-2007, 08:28 AM
I also, being a member of the pretenders, believe your posts are good Mike.

This team has too many holes and mediocre players to make a splash this year. Let's keep building towards the future and manage our expectations.

BigTimeTexanFan
07-13-2007, 10:19 AM
The front office did what they could with what they had. I know we still have holes, but not everything that is wrong with this team can be fixed in one offseason. I do expect at least 8-8 though. If our defense can be close to as productive as they were the last ten games of the season, I think we can make some noise. Our defense carried us those last ten games with the way the offense was struggling. We have made changes at QB and runningback also getting some healthy guys returning to the o-line. So with a pretty good defense and hopefully a better offense, I don't see why we can't get at least to .500.

Texans Horror
07-13-2007, 10:56 AM
The Texans have made good moves, but they are all long-term solutions. The turn-around needs more time. The good news is that one good offseason could provide answers to most of the Texans' holes.

BigTimeTexanFan
07-13-2007, 11:14 AM
While I'm hoping for the best this year, I really think we can do some damage next year. This next offseason we will have plenty of money to aquire decent players to fill holes with proven players and at the same time, we won't have Charley "not so frugal" Casserly in charge this time. So far Rick Smith has done well with what he's had to work with (which aint much). So, I look for the Texans to be drastically improved by next year. Though it would be nice to over achieve this year:texflag:

eriadoc
07-13-2007, 11:23 AM
Saints last year:

QB - starting the season with a potentially hurt QB, and it's his first year here.

RB - Deuce is back, but is his knee healthy? And we got Bush. There are concerns as to how they'll split the load, but this should be a plus.

WR - Aging Joe Horn, lost Donte Stallworth, and we have a 7th round draft pick. This has to be worrisome.

TE - Billy Miller!

OL - Lost LeCharles Bentley, oh noes!

Just sayin' .......

TexanAddict
07-13-2007, 11:26 AM
There is a reason that Green Bay let him go, and they are kind of in a win now mode since their franchise star is in his last year or two, but they are prepared to go into the season with, get this, Vernand Morency, listed as their #1 back right now.

I believe this to be a false statement.

DBCooper
07-13-2007, 11:30 AM
Saints last year:

QB - starting the season with a potentially hurt QB, and it's his first year here.

RB - Deuce is back, but is his knee healthy? And we got Bush. There are concerns as to how they'll split the load, but this should be a plus.

WR - Aging Joe Horn, lost Donte Stallworth, and we have a 7th round draft pick. This has to be worrisome.

TE - Billy Miller!

OL - Lost LeCharles Bentley, oh noes!

Just sayin' .......


And don't forget -- Rookie Coach

DBCooper
07-13-2007, 11:40 AM
I want our defense to be feared. I want the opposition to be scared to play the Texans D on Sunday. And the problem with our safeties is not the SS but the FS. Our SS play their position well, they need a ball-hawk back there with them.

I think if Green can stay healthy, our offense should look a lot better with Schaub calling the shots. One of the biggest problems has been that opposing defenses pinned their ears back and came at Carr like dogs after meat. We have to make them pay for that kind of aggression. You burn them a couple of times and they'll back off and you can run your offense.

Texans Horror
07-13-2007, 11:43 AM
The Saints also went 8-8 the two years before that dismal 3-13 season that got them Reggie Bush (and 9-7 the year before that). The point is that they obviously had some strengths to the team. The Texans had a much worse record from 2002 - 2005 and likely have many more holes than the Saints did.

Porky
07-13-2007, 12:25 PM
Many of the fans usually take an overly optimistic view, where the glass is not only half full, it's overflowing. I can go back thru the archives and find predictions of 11 and 12 wins from the year we won 2 games, or from last year. Heck, there where fans predicting playoffs the very first year of existence.

OTOH, I believe your post runs almost dead opposite of that. Your glass is not only half empty, it's only got a couple of drops left in the bottom. You have taken the absouloute worst case of every scenerio, and assumed that to be true. You make it seem like we are that 2 win team. I just don't believe that.

The truth probably lies somewhere between your glass empty take, and the homers glass full takes. I predict somewhere between 7-9 wins, primarily on the presumption that Matt Schaub will prove to be a competent QB, and that we have a better RB, a better DL, and added some talent elsewhere. However, I will be really suprised, but very pleasantly so, if we make the playoffs....although I will say this is the first year that going into camp I have not totally ruled out the possibility either. :devilpig:

Kaiser Toro
07-13-2007, 12:28 PM
I am so glad this is not going to be a playoff year. :rolleyes:

How about, reasons why it will be a challenge for the Texans to make the playoffs?

Mr. White
07-13-2007, 01:04 PM
An 8-8 season is realistic.

Once some of that dead money clears, then maybe we can start talking playoffs.

We still need an RB that can catch passes and some depth on the OL.

I think that the defense is better than they get credit for. They just spent too much time on the field last season.

Tailgate
07-13-2007, 01:23 PM
Its a 3 year plan... not a 2... so yeah, its obvious some of our moves are stop gap or aimed at a year or so down the road. You cant fill every hole on a 2-14 team in just 2 offseasons. Especially when you are cap strapped. But as far as the playoffs, yes they will definitely have to hit on quite a few of the unknowns... but its not impossible. Nobody knows truly how big of an impact replacing Carr will really be. Not having him/adding Schaub could have a HUGE ripple effect on the Offense. The D is already a top 12 unit imo. Still, 7 to 8 wins for them this season.

HoustonFrog
07-13-2007, 02:50 PM
I am glad you wrote the post and am glad that you at least spelled out your reasons. I also think next year is the year for big expectations BUT I agree with a poster above, I believe Porky, who said you took the extreme worst case scenario for each position. You talk about DeMeco not running a 2.4 so he can't cover the whole field yet he still makes plays, was DROY and we added Danny Clark and Shawn Barber for some vet presence. I'm just picking one area. I will agree on still wanting in the FS position, etc but I think 7-9 or 8-8 is realistic under the second year of the system.

Goldensilence
07-13-2007, 03:41 PM
I agree with Frog on spelling out your thoughts and reasons behind them. I think just about everyone on this board shares your feelings at FS. I hope Harrison is a player cause Gattis was still on the board when we were up.

However I'll point out as others have. We weren't that far away from being 8-8 at least last year ourselves. I still point to the Giants game with the Jameel Cook "fumble" and i shouldn't have to point out either Titans game. All in all for a squad that barely and i mean barely managed a 2-14 season the year before to be a few plays away from and 8-8 season, nab the DROY, and land one of the more sought after QB's the past few years says a lot about the direction of the franchise IMO.

Granted we are still dealing with a good portion of unknowns this year again at FS, #2 WR(though i have a good feeling about Walters and i could well be way off), and LT.

I know a bunch of people are hosing the deal but Green was one of the better options at RB and is familar with what Sherman wants. I think that pays dividends there each knowing what the other wants to do and what the other is capable of. For everything said about Green last year he was coming of major surgery and still managed to produce a solid season in a pretty bad situation in Green Bay. Like it or not as well Dayne stepped in last year and really was the force behind winning a few games. If we had a competant passing game towards the end of the season i think we would've done better. I'm hoping for that and a little more. Not Saying Schaub has to light it up just be a competant passer, make his reads, if he sees a mismatch exploit it, and if there's nothing downfield (i know you all hate this one) check down to your dump off and let Green or whomever is in make something out of it.

While i'm still thinking around 7-9 wins this season i'm not ruling out with a few good plays here and there a possible run. I don't think i've gone into TC with realistic expectations like this before.

Hervoyel
07-13-2007, 04:04 PM
I gave you positive rep for that post because it was well articulated and intelligent. Good observations all.

Having said that let me just add that in my world every year is a playoff season until it's proven otherwise. It's July, my team is always playoff bound in July.

maddogmrb
07-13-2007, 07:42 PM
With our schedule, I believe we can win 5 games this year and be a better team than last year. I say we win 5-7 games this year.

Now, if the planets line up, the moon and sun change places, and Manning and Freeney spend the year on PUP, we could possibly, maybe, almost make the playoffs.

BattleRedToro
07-13-2007, 08:07 PM
I believe we are atleast 2 more drafts from seriously contending for the playoffs.

Texan Asylum
07-13-2007, 09:01 PM
I gave you positive rep for that post because it was well articulated and intelligent. Good observations all.

Having said that let me just add that in my world every year is a playoff season until it's proven otherwise. It's July, my team is always playoff bound in July.
Now that's what I like! OPTIMISM!!!

I could lead this team to the Super Bowl with THAT kind of optimism! That's what I try to instill in my people. Optimism and confidence that we ARE the best and therefore we are.

Go Texans! :fans:

Texanmike02
07-13-2007, 09:24 PM
I am glad you wrote the post and am glad that you at least spelled out your reasons. I also think next year is the year for big expectations BUT I agree with a poster above, I believe Porky, who said you took the extreme worst case scenario for each position. You talk about DeMeco not running a 2.4 so he can't cover the whole field yet he still makes plays, was DROY and we added Danny Clark and Shawn Barber for some vet presence. I'm just picking one area. I will agree on still wanting in the FS position, etc but I think 7-9 or 8-8 is realistic under the second year of the system.


I'm not saying I don't love DeMeco... I do... I just don't know if we have the linebackers to go with him yet. I think this was a sign a few vets.. get some experience while you free up cap room type year. I also think if we were in the NFC we'd probably be looking at a 8-8 year... but we play with the big boys.

If we go 8-8 I'll be happy as the proverbial big in S417.

Mike

Texanmike02
07-13-2007, 09:26 PM
I gave you positive rep for that post because it was well articulated and intelligent. Good observations all.

Having said that let me just add that in my world every year is a playoff season until it's proven otherwise. It's July, my team is always playoff bound in July.

I appreciate that man... btw would someone explain the rep system to me.. we didn't have it on the old board...

Mike

aj.
07-13-2007, 09:48 PM
I appreciate that man... btw would someone explain the rep system to me.. we didn't have it on the old board...

Mike

Here's the naysayers view.

First, let me say that I enjoyed your earlier post - it was very well thought out and very well presented. I didn't agree with everything you said but that's not the point .... I also didn't give you rep - intentionally. I have respect for many posters here but I don't need a status icon (the little green thingys next to your name by the "rep power" label) to let me know who has their sheet together. In fact, I just read something written by a person on another thread who had a rep of 1 or 2 that was far more insightful than what the rep power of 20-something guy had to say.

Anyway, I find the rep system here very odd - especially in what's mostly an adult environment. I used to throw it around occasionally (rarely) just to play along, but it's been a long time since I've used it. It's almost like kids' myspace pages where being on someone else's top ten list is soo important ... not really, but the feel is that of a popularity contest that I don't think adds a whole lot to the environment other than promote a form of virtual user status and heirarchy for whatever reason.

One of the things I like about hpf.com and ht.com is they don't use rep icons. I think it brings a jr. highish element to this board and if there was a way for me to hide the "Rep Power" label under my name, I would.

(I expect and invite negative rep on this post btw):winky:

Texanmike02
07-13-2007, 10:03 PM
Here's the naysayers view.

First, let me say that I thoroughly enjoyed your earlier post - it was very well thought out and very well presented. I didn't agree with everything you said but so what.... I also didn't give you rep - intentionally. I have respect for many posters here and don't need a status icon (the little green thingys next to your name by the "rep power" label) to let me know who has their sheet together. In fact, I just read something written by a person on another thread who had a rep of 1 or 2 that was far more insightful than what the rep power of 20-something guy had to say.

Anyway, I find the rep system here very odd - especially in what's mostly an adult environment. I used to throw some around occaisionally just to play along, but it's been several months since I've used it. It's like kids' myspace pages where day's are made or broken by being on someone else's top ten list. It's a virtual popularity contest of sorts. Whatever. It's one of the things I like about hpf.com and ht.com because they don't have it. But some people seem to get off to it and to each their own but it brings a jr. highish element to the board imo.

(I expect and invite negative rep on this post btw) :logo:

Well it sounds like it could be useful if used right. And for someone who doesn't believe in the system... you could feed Pac-man (not Jones kids.. the one who is related to this guy:laughjump:) for a month lol... You're just trying to hold us transfers down... REP HOG!!!! lmao/jk... thanks for the explanation.. is there a mathematical formula (ask anyone from the old board i'm a stats nut... i'll find a way to measure the effectiveness of the system haha...)

And hey... if we can teach something about football to some kids... more (rep) power to us hehe...

Mike

HJam72
07-13-2007, 10:38 PM
If I may digress:

REP RULEZ, DUDEZ!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111111 :fans: :doot:

PS-:shades:

Pantherstang84
07-13-2007, 10:57 PM
With our schedule, I believe we can win 5 games this year and be a better team than last year. I say we win 5-7 games this year.

Now, if the planets line up, the moon and sun change places, and Manning and Freeney spend the year on PUP, we could possibly, maybe, almost make the playoffs.

Would you just listen to yourselves?

Has this town gotten so used to losing that we give up on them before Training Camp even starts?

ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME?

:gun:

Come on!

Do you realize that the Texas were very close to a 9-7 record last year?

We lost 3 games with less than 2 minutes to go because the offense couldn't sustain a drive.

With a QB that couldn't avoid a paper sack much less a sack from the opposing defense.


Do you losers actually expect the Houston Texans to go backwards with a "5-7" win season? Geez. Talking about a losing mentality!

NO FREAKING WAY!

The Houston Texans are moving forward. Sure we don't have the sexy players like other teams. However....

The Houston Texans will have a winning record this year!!!!!!!!!!! You can lock it up!!!!

THe Patriots won multiple Super Bowls with Tom Brady (a 6th round draft choice) and a bunch of freaking no names.

No why wonder the Houston Texans and their fans are the laughing stock of the league. This is some tough love folks.

Starting thinking like winners and quit giving up before Training Camp starts.

Quit thinking like losers!!!!!!!

:fans:

</soapbox>

brakos82
07-13-2007, 11:15 PM
Would you just listen to yourselves?

Has this town gotten so used to losing that we give up on them before Training Camp even starts?

ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME?

:gun:

Come on!

Do you realize that the Texas were very close to a 9-7 record last year?

We lost 3 games with less than 2 minutes to go because the offense couldn't sustain a drive.

With a QB that couldn't avoid a paper sack much less a sack from the opposing defense.


Do you losers actually expect the Houston Texans to go backwards with a "5-7" win season? Geez. Talking about a losing mentality!

NO FREAKING WAY!

The Houston Texans are moving forward. Sure we don't have the sexy players like other teams. However....

The Houston Texans will have a winning record this year!!!!!!!!!!! You can lock it up!!!!

THe Patriots won multiple Super Bowls with Tom Brady (a 6th round draft choice) and a bunch of freaking no names.

No why wonder the Houston Texans and their fans are the laughing stock of the league. This is some tough love folks.

Starting thinking like winners and quit giving up before Training Camp starts.

Quit thinking like losers!!!!!!!

:fans:

</soapbox>

Can I put the eye on him?

Texanmike02
07-14-2007, 12:11 AM
ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME?

No.

Do you realize that the Texas were very close to a 9-7 record last year?
We lost 3 games with less than 2 minutes to go because the offense couldn't sustain a drive.
With a QB that couldn't avoid a paper sack much less a sack from the opposing defense.

Do you also realize that we won 3 games by 3 points or less?


Do you losers actually expect the Houston Texans to go backwards with a "5-7" win season? Geez. Talking about a losing mentality!

NO FREAKING WAY!

The Houston Texans are moving forward. Sure we don't have the sexy players like other teams. However....

Allow me to interject, they are only two years removed from a two win season, and spent most of the off season filling holes with stopgap guys who can play the position while they clear a ton of dead money off the books... please.. go on..

The Houston Texans will have a winning record this year!!!!!!!!!!! You can lock it up!!!!

I suppose they could have a winning record... I mean the Astros did make a miracle run through the league 3 years running... but lock it up? nah...

THe Patriots won multiple Super Bowls with Tom Brady (a 6th round draft choice) and a bunch of freaking no names.

This is the mantra for every losing franchise... if only it were that simple.

No why wonder the Houston Texans and their fans are the laughing stock of the league. This is some tough love folks.

Starting thinking like winners and quit giving up before Training Camp starts.

Quit thinking like losers!!!!!!!

:fans:

</soapbox>
You're right on this point. The Texans aren't the laughing stock of the league because they have 5 losing seasons to go with 1 winning season... oh wait.. make that zero. Its also not because they have made some stupid draft picks... TJ, Babin... and suffered under Casserly and the Pburnt trade. It also wouldn't happen to be because the 4 times we've been on national tv since the cowpies game (I think that's right) we've gotten beaten pretty badly in all but on game... oh and we lost that game too.

I don't think the fans are the laughing stock of the league. If anything the people I talk to that are diehard fans tell me that they are impressed that I'm a fan of the home team. I was an old oilers fan... and then I was a Colts fan and most of my friends know that... once we got a team in Houston I dropped the Colts and am now a full time Texans fan.

As for giving up before training camp... well I don't think I've given up. I think I'm setting a realistic goal and that when the Texans don't make the playoffs, I'll still be here. If the Texans make the playoffs I'll be elated. I'll eat my crow HAPPILY... but so far all I can see is that your reasoning is that the Texans would have won 3 games IF... and IF and IF... something about a paper bag and then because N.E. won with a no name QB (btw he did play at Michigan... but yeah by most NFLers he was pretty unknown).Part of the reason that happened is they've gotten solid play out of both of their lines (no names btw with the exception of the pass rushing de which they don't employ and the occasional LT)...

I'm not bashing anyone who can validate their opinion... and I'm not saying I'm even remotely right.. they COULD go 16-0... I just happen to think that's very very very unlikely.

Mike

DBCooper
07-14-2007, 12:16 AM
Schaub - upgrade
Green - upgrade
Okoye - upgrade (from what I can tell)
Oline - Black is good depth
LB - Barber and Clark add good depth
WR - Jacoby and Johnson add depth


We may not have all the shiny pieces yet, but we're building a solid roster.

This team got better this off-season.

And you'll see it on Sundays.

brakos82
07-14-2007, 12:23 AM
And you'll see it on Sundays.

And on Thursday in December (hopefully for you)

DBCooper
07-14-2007, 12:27 AM
And on Thursday in December (hopefully for you)

lol

I forgot about that.

Pantherstang84
07-14-2007, 12:47 AM
[/COLOR]
No.

Do you also realize that we won 3 games by 3 points or less?


Allow me to interject, they are only two years removed from a two win season, and spent most of the off season filling holes with stopgap guys who can play the position while they clear a ton of dead money off the books... please.. go on..

I suppose they could have a winning record... I mean the Astros did make a miracle run through the league 3 years running... but lock it up? nah...

This is the mantra for every losing franchise... if only it were that simple.

You're right on this point. The Texans aren't the laughing stock of the league because they have 5 losing seasons to go with 1 winning season... oh wait.. make that zero. Its also not because they have made some stupid draft picks... TJ, Babin... and suffered under Casserly and the Pburnt trade. It also wouldn't happen to be because the 4 times we've been on national tv since the cowpies game (I think that's right) we've gotten beaten pretty badly in all but on game... oh and we lost that game too.

I don't think the fans are the laughing stock of the league. If anything the people I talk to that are diehard fans tell me that they are impressed that I'm a fan of the home team. I was an old oilers fan... and then I was a Colts fan and most of my friends know that... once we got a team in Houston I dropped the Colts and am now a full time Texans fan.

As for giving up before training camp... well I don't think I've given up. I think I'm setting a realistic goal and that when the Texans don't make the playoffs, I'll still be here. If the Texans make the playoffs I'll be elated. I'll eat my crow HAPPILY... but so far all I can see is that your reasoning is that the Texans would have won 3 games IF... and IF and IF... something about a paper bag and then because N.E. won with a no name QB (btw he did play at Michigan... but yeah by most NFLers he was pretty unknown).Part of the reason that happened is they've gotten solid play out of both of their lines (no names btw with the exception of the pass rushing de which they don't employ and the occasional LT)...

I'm not bashing anyone who can validate their opinion... and I'm not saying I'm even remotely right.. they COULD go 16-0... I just happen to think that's very very very unlikely.

Mike

You go ahead and stare at your empty glass. However, I believe some key positions were upgraded in the offseason and I just don't see this team going backwards. Now if there were no roster changes, I would think like you.

The Texans got rid of the biggest liability back in April. They will win more games this year. No less than 9.

I have been on board going on my 6th season and if I'm still above ground, I'll be around for the 7th.

I could be on the "safe side" and only expect 5 wins so I don't get my hopes up.
Pffffffffffttt!

Winning season, playoff bound in 2007!!!!!!!

You don't have to like it but I'm saying it and I don't tolerate the Capers "marginal improvement" philosophy or a losing attitude.


I'm pretty sure the current coaching staff share that sentiment too.

5-7 wins??? Bahhhhhhh! Patooey!

brakos82
07-14-2007, 12:59 AM
Actually, 5-7 wins is likely before thanksgiving weekend. :shades:

TexansSeminole
07-14-2007, 01:02 AM
Your right I do see this year and last year as developmental years. Heck, we took two of the youngest players in the last two drafts.

brakos82
07-14-2007, 01:35 AM
Super Bowl XLV!

ReliantTexan
07-14-2007, 01:49 AM
You people are forgetting that we were a top 12 defense(in yardage allowed) the last thirteen games of the season and we've only gotten better IMO.I imagine our defense will win most of our games this season.I don't expect Schaub to light it up his first season of starting but he just needs to be better than Carr(which shouldn't be to hard).Don't get me wrong,I think Schaub will be a Great QB,but just not his first season.And this year I think we will be able to run the ball( I look for Chris Taylor to have a break-out year) and be the starter by next season.All in all I expect 9 wins and the playoffs.

brakos82
07-14-2007, 02:28 AM
We would-a been in the playoffs at 7-9 in '04 in the NFC. :bat:

Speedy
07-14-2007, 03:45 AM
The line between winning and losing in the NFL is so thin that anything can happen. For example, the Texans just last year were a handful of plays from winning 10 games. Stop just one of the 80 yard TD's against the Bills, the Texans win that game. If Carr and Cook don't fumble away the first Titans game, and Cook doesn't blow another one against the Giants, there's 2 more. Make a play or two in the OT loss to the Titans, and you're looking at a 10-6 wild card contender.

Of course that works the other way as well. The Dolphins, Colts, Jags, and Browns make a couple of more plays, or the Texans don't make the plays they did i.e. Mario disrupting the 2 pointer against Miami, and maybe you're looking at another 2 win season.

But the point is, that's how close it is in this league. I mean the Super Bowl champions lost to the Texans and before that game was played, on paper, that's an automatic Colts win. And the Colts did have something to play for in that game. That's why you play the games.

Maybe switching QB's, adding Green, Okoye, a healthy Mario, maybe they make those 6-8 plays this year that wins those extra 4 games or so. You're just not going to know until they lineup and play the game, no matter what it looks like on paper before hand.

So to me, making the playoffs this year is very realistic and not just a glass full ridiculous homer expectation. But I also realize that if they don't find a way to make those 2 or 3 plays a game, they could end up below .500 again.

Texanmike02
07-14-2007, 07:29 AM
You go ahead and stare at your empty glass. However, I believe some key positions were upgraded in the offseason and I just don't see this team going backwards. Now if there were no roster changes, I would think like you.

The Texans got rid of the biggest liability back in April. They will win more games this year. No less than 9.

I have been on board going on my 6th season and if I'm still above ground, I'll be around for the 7th.

I could be on the "safe side" and only expect 5 wins so I don't get my hopes up.
Pffffffffffttt!

Winning season, playoff bound in 2007!!!!!!!

You don't have to like it but I'm saying it and I don't tolerate the Capers "marginal improvement" philosophy or a losing attitude.


I'm pretty sure the current coaching staff share that sentiment too.

5-7 wins??? Bahhhhhhh! Patooey!

So shall we put a wager on this? over under of 8.5? you take the over I take the under?

And for the record... I'm not taking a glass half empty approach just so I'm not disappointed... I'm looking at the situation objectively and calling it how I see it. Yes we have upgraded certain positions... but we still have gaping holes and we don't do anything exceptionally well... It has nothing to do with marginal improvement or a "losing attitude"... well maybe it does... we have a losing culture here... that has to be changed. But unfortunately that's not changed just by closing your eyes and saying "I know I can I know I can..." you have to make tangible changes in your team. You also have to clear cap space so you can bring in help... we're doing that this year. This team isn't going backwards.. they are moving forward. Not only are they moving forward... they're doing it at a remarkable pace... Think about what you're saying... this team is one of the 6 best in the conference? Give me a break...

Mike

Texan Asylum
07-14-2007, 10:14 AM
Schaub - upgrade
Green - upgrade
Okoye - upgrade (from what I can tell)
Oline - Black is good depth
LB - Barber and Clark add good depth
WR - Jacoby and Johnson add depth


We may not have all the shiny pieces yet, but we're building a solid roster.

This team got better this off-season.

And you'll see it on Sundays.
Nice...

I AM looking forward to GAMEDAY!!!

:texflag:

Pantherstang84
07-14-2007, 10:27 AM
So shall we put a wager on this? over under of 8.5? you take the over I take the under?

And for the record... I'm not taking a glass half empty approach just so I'm not disappointed... I'm looking at the situation objectively and calling it how I see it. Yes we have upgraded certain positions... but we still have gaping holes and we don't do anything exceptionally well... It has nothing to do with marginal improvement or a "losing attitude"... well maybe it does... we have a losing culture here... that has to be changed. But unfortunately that's not changed just by closing your eyes and saying "I know I can I know I can..." you have to make tangible changes in your team. You also have to clear cap space so you can bring in help... we're doing that this year. This team isn't going backwards.. they are moving forward. Not only are they moving forward... they're doing it at a remarkable pace... Think about what you're saying... this team is one of the 6 best in the conference? Give me a break...

Mike

1. I'm a recovering compulsive gambler so I don't do it anymore.

2. A losing mentality gets changed by thinking like a winner. You don't win first and then develop a winning attitude.

3. The Houston Texans could very well be one of the 6 best teams in the AFC. Who knows? Not one team in the NFL has played a down in 2007 yet. So it is premature to deem the Texans a failure in 2007.

4. I'll repeat myself again. The Houston Texans will finish no worse than 9-7 in 2007. Sometimes that is enough to make it to the playoffs, most of the time it isn't. We'll see.

5. The Texans upgraded the offensive line when they changed QBs. The offense will be much improved and score more points per game.

6. I'm done arguing with you. I don't want any of your bad JuJu.

Texanmike02
07-14-2007, 10:31 AM
1. I'm a recovering compulsive gambler so I don't do it anymore.

2. A losing mentality gets changed by thinking like a winner. You don't win first and then develop a winning attitude.

3. The Houston Texans could very well be one of the 6 best teams in the AFC. Who knows? Not one team in the NFL has played a down in 2007 yet. So it is premature to deem the Texans a failure in 2007.

4. I'll repeat myself again. The Houston Texans will finish no worse than 9-7 in 2007. Sometimes that is enough to make it to the playoffs, most of the time it isn't. We'll see.

5. The Texans upgraded the offensive line when they changed QBs. The offense will be much improved and score more points per game.

6. I'm done arguing with you. I don't want any of your bad JuJu.

It doesn't have to be money man... I'm thinking like a sig block for a year or something... you know... just to make it interesting... and lets not forget we are both on the same side here.. we're both Texans fans after all..

Mike

rickyb
07-14-2007, 10:43 AM
2. A losing mentality gets changed by thinking like a winner. You don't win first and then develop a winning attitude.


I wholeheartedly agree on this point. I've recently been posting about placing high expectations on players (e.g., Okoye) and challenge them to rise to/exceed the bar. It's a management thing. Winners will rise to the level of expectations placed upon them. Set the bar too level, and you celebrate mediocrity, which is no way to grow.

just what is on my mind this a.m. is it september yet? :)

HJam72
07-14-2007, 11:20 AM
I think we're going to get that winning attitude this year, for the first time. I think it kind of peaked in and looked around a little last year, because I think it will come in the form of Schaub and Ryans. :texflag:

However, I still think we may be looking at 8-8 (but no lower, unless we just have a lot of bad luck), so I guess it depends on how much winning attitude you need to actually call it that.

PS-AJ, for example, is a stellar performer and a work-horse, but he could actually use a leader on the field. A vocal, social leader. Schaub. Ryans just needs to lose that rookie ora, and I doubt it takes him long to do that.

Spike
07-14-2007, 12:21 PM
Great thread. I can't wait for football season and this is the point of the Summer when I finally allow myself to get excited about football.

I have been satisfied with what the Texans accomplished in the off-season and am hoping for an 8-8 season. At the same time, I am preparing myself for the frustrating possibility of having a more talented team, with no improved record. I have been using the same logic that a lot of you have expressed here...we won 6 games last year with essentially no QB and were a couple of plays away from ending at .500. However, I am not sure that logic works in the context of a football team from one season to the next.

Pantherstang84
07-14-2007, 01:24 PM
Great thread. I can't wait for football season and this is the point of the Summer when I finally allow myself to get excited about football.

I have been satisfied with what the Texans accomplished in the off-season and am hoping for an 8-8 season. At the same time, I am preparing myself for the frustrating possibility of having a more talented team, with no improved record. I have been using the same logic that a lot of you have expressed here...we won 6 games last year with essentially no QB and were a couple of plays away from ending at .500. However, I am not sure that logic works in the context of a football team from one season to the next.

It works.

I submit as exhibit 1...

The 2006 New Orleans Aints

Out goes Arron Brooks. In comes Drew Brees.

They hired a rookie coach and swapped an incompetent QB for a competent one. Voila.

12-4.


I don't expect the same this year from the Texans, but no worse than 9-7. I'm telling ya.

Prediction...
9-11 wins.

Texans Horror
07-14-2007, 04:26 PM
I think beating the Colts last year did a lot for the Texans mentality - but still not as much as bringing in the new coaching staff. I really like Kubes and I think this will not be a one-hit wonder team. When they finally do hit, they will be around for a long time. Not like some teams that are scattershot - good one year, bad the next.

However, I've never gone for that shoulda, coulda, woulda stuff. Sure, a couple plays go Houston's way, and the Texans have a few more wins. Sure, if you look at part of the season on defense or offense, they looked really good. Plenty to build on, but the end result is the Texans are in the AFC basement because of failures from the past regime. Speaking of, go back to 2005's 2-14 season. Shoulda, coulda, woulda: the Texans were two OTs and a couple bad kicks away from a 6-10 or 7-9 season, possibly enough to have bought Capers another year, and by God I'm glad it didn't work out that way! I'll take the Texans the way they are, work in progress and all, because there is a light at the end of the tunnel, even if it is another season or two away.

maddogmrb
07-14-2007, 04:49 PM
Nobody is jumping ship and, believe me, nobody wants this team to be a winner more than me ......... just taking a realistic look at our chances this year.

We didn't add a SINGLE solid starter at ANY position in the off season. Some will say Ahman Green but, he is on the down side of his career.

Take our starters from top to bottom and see how many would be starters on at least half the teams in the NFL. Answer is: not very many = probably less than 500 record. Oh yes, and add our coaching staff to that stat, too. Now they can get better but, right now they are not considered in the top half of the league.

And, how many GM's in the league would trade our "no-name" roster for the Patriots "no-name" roster. Uhh, umm, I don't hear anything....

Do I want our team to win ........ absolutely! Will I be cheering them in every game ......... absolutely! Do I feel they are in the top half of the league ........ no way. Does that make me a loser fan? I don't think so ........ just frustrated & with reasonable expectations. Where will your unbridled enthusiasm be at mid season when we are 2-6 or 3-5? I'll still be cheering the team on and looking for that improvement to base my optimism on for the next season because my expectations are reasonable.

We can't take the Pittsburg Pirates and "enthuse" them to the World Series. We can't take the Oakland Raiders and "enthuse" them to the Super Bowl this year. We can't take the Rice Owls and "enthuse" them to the national championship (football). But, we can be loyal fans with reasonable expectations and that doesn't make us losers.

Texanmike02
07-14-2007, 05:05 PM
We can't take the Pittsburg Pirates and "enthuse" them to the World Series. We can't take the Oakland Raiders and "enthuse" them to the Super Bowl this year. We can't take the Rice Owls and "enthuse" them to the national championship (football). But, we can be loyal fans with reasonable expectations and that doesn't make us losers.

Very well said.

Mike

Speedy
07-14-2007, 05:23 PM
However, I've never gone for that shoulda, coulda, woulda stuff. Sure, a couple plays go Houston's way, and the Texans have a few more wins. Sure, if you look at part of the season on defense or offense, they looked really good. Plenty to build on, but the end result is the Texans are in the AFC basement because of failures from the past regime. Speaking of, go back to 2005's 2-14 season. Shoulda, coulda, woulda: the Texans were two OTs and a couple bad kicks away from a 6-10 or 7-9 season, possibly enough to have bought Capers another year, and by God I'm glad it didn't work out that way! I'll take the Texans the way they are, work in progress and all, because there is a light at the end of the tunnel, even if it is another season or two away.

My point was just to demonstrate the fine line between winning and losing in this league. Yes, you've still got to make those plays and the Texans didn't and therefore have never had a winning record. I don't play the woulda, coulda, shoulda game either. You did what you did and that's who you are.

The talent on this team is better than what the previous regime left us with. And even with that lesser talent, you were that few amount of plays away from winning 6 games instead of 2 in '05 and 10 games instead of 6 in '06. Now, this new, better talent pool that Kubiak and co. are putting together, still has to go out and make those plays that weren't being made in the past. If they can, you could very easily be looking at .500 or better. If they don't, you're looking to struggle...again. That's how close things are in this league.

Texans Horror
07-14-2007, 11:06 PM
Agreed. But I think it's going to take a big leap from rookies and a wink to the gods for the Texans to cross that fine line.

Another reason the Texans won't make the play-offs: November and December. While the schedule is much kinder this season, the Texans will have a rough November and December. I could see them not winning between their bye-week and the final Jags game. Momentum from the first 7-8 games will be very important. I could see them 5-3 or 4-4 in the first half of the season.

brakos82
07-14-2007, 11:08 PM
Agreed. But I think it's going to take a big leap from rookies and a wink to the gods for the Texans to cross that fine line.

Another reason the Texans won't make the play-offs: November and December. While the schedule is much kinder this season, the Texans will have a rough November and December. I could see them not winning between their bye-week and the final Jags game. Momentum from the first 7-8 games will be very important. I could see them 5-3 or 4-4 in the first half of the season.

I'm hoping for 6-3 so we could end up on SNF :d:

Double Barrel
07-16-2007, 11:32 AM
ANY GIVEN SUNDAY, BABY!!! :redtowel: :fans: :texflag:

TK_Gamer
07-16-2007, 12:34 PM
I'm gonna just say I too think we have holes, every team does. One thing that makes me "REALLY" optimistic is the holes in my oppinion are related.

Secondary: yes we have less than stellar talent in the secondary, but we also had the worst turnover, worst sack toatal around. So what contributed to that?
1) gimped Mario Williams (reportedly fully recovered)
2) inconsistent push in the middle (Maddox showed he had
the "stuff" late in the season. We added the Okoye factor)
3) we kinda "vanillafied" the defense with everyone learning a new
system (2nd year of the system and only one probable starting
rookie.)
In my oppinon we will see the defense play more toward their level at the end of last season rather than the painfull start.

Offense:

QB: Schaub is an improvement over Carr no matter what anyone says. Leadership, poise, release. I really think just those skills alone will make the other non-AJ targets look alot better.

RB: can anyone honestly tell me Green is NOT an upgrade over Dayne/committee? we will still use different backs for different things and sometimes just to keep Green fresh, but I dont see us with less than 1500 yards total rushing.

O-line:

I think everyone will agree that even without Spencer, they looked respectable at the end of the season last year, and with added depth we picked up this year, and a possible return of Spencer I dont think they will even be in the top 10 in sacks allowed this year.

Overall: I honestly think 9 wins is realistic goal, and 11 wins are possible barring serious injury problems. I'm sorry if that's too optimistic for some, but their you have it. My Honest Oppinion. GO TEXANS!

badboy
07-16-2007, 03:00 PM
Here's the naysayers view.

First, let me say that I enjoyed your earlier post - it was very well thought out and very well presented. I didn't agree with everything you said but that's not the point .... I also didn't give you rep - intentionally. I have respect for many posters here but I don't need a status icon (the little green thingys next to your name by the "rep power" label) to let me know who has their sheet together. In fact, I just read something written by a person on another thread who had a rep of 1 or 2 that was far more insightful than what the rep power of 20-something guy had to say.

Anyway, I find the rep system here very odd - especially in what's mostly an adult environment. I used to throw it around occasionally (rarely) just to play along, but it's been a long time since I've used it. It's almost like kids' myspace pages where being on someone else's top ten list is soo important ... not really, but the feel is that of a popularity contest that I don't think adds a whole lot to the environment other than promote a form of virtual user status and heirarchy for whatever reason.

One of the things I like about hpf.com and ht.com is they don't use rep icons. I think it brings a jr. highish element to this board and if there was a way for me to hide the "Rep Power" label under my name, I would.

(I expect and invite negative rep on this post btw):winky:

I also choose not to "rep" If I disagree or agree I simply say so and maybe follow up with PM if needed.

real
07-16-2007, 03:06 PM
The line between winning and losing in the NFL is so thin that anything can happen. For example, the Texans just last year were a handful of plays from winning 10 games. Stop just one of the 80 yard TD's against the Bills, the Texans win that game. If Carr and Cook don't fumble away the first Titans game, and Cook doesn't blow another one against the Giants, there's 2 more. Make a play or two in the OT loss to the Titans, and you're looking at a 10-6 wild card contender.

Of course that works the other way as well. The Dolphins, Colts, Jags, and Browns make a couple of more plays, or the Texans don't make the plays they did i.e. Mario disrupting the 2 pointer against Miami, and maybe you're looking at another 2 win season.

But the point is, that's how close it is in this league. I mean the Super Bowl champions lost to the Texans and before that game was played, on paper, that's an automatic Colts win. And the Colts did have something to play for in that game. That's why you play the games.

Maybe switching QB's, adding Green, Okoye, a healthy Mario, maybe they make those 6-8 plays this year that wins those extra 4 games or so. You're just not going to know until they lineup and play the game, no matter what it looks like on paper before hand.

So to me, making the playoffs this year is very realistic and not just a glass full ridiculous homer expectation. But I also realize that if they don't find a way to make those 2 or 3 plays a game, they could end up below .500 again.

I agree with this man.

HoustonFrog
07-16-2007, 03:13 PM
Here's the naysayers view.

First, let me say that I enjoyed your earlier post - it was very well thought out and very well presented. I didn't agree with everything you said but that's not the point .... I also didn't give you rep - intentionally. I have respect for many posters here but I don't need a status icon (the little green thingys next to your name by the "rep power" label) to let me know who has their sheet together. In fact, I just read something written by a person on another thread who had a rep of 1 or 2 that was far more insightful than what the rep power of 20-something guy had to say.

Anyway, I find the rep system here very odd - especially in what's mostly an adult environment. I used to throw it around occasionally (rarely) just to play along, but it's been a long time since I've used it. It's almost like kids' myspace pages where being on someone else's top ten list is soo important ... not really, but the feel is that of a popularity contest that I don't think adds a whole lot to the environment other than promote a form of virtual user status and heirarchy for whatever reason.

One of the things I like about hpf.com and ht.com is they don't use rep icons. I think it brings a jr. highish element to this board and if there was a way for me to hide the "Rep Power" label under my name, I would.

(I expect and invite negative rep on this post btw):winky:

I actually enjoy it. My theory on it is that maybe it will keep some people honest instead of spamming or just fighting in order to fight. I think differences of opinion are healthy and appreciated and that sometimes a person likes to hear some feedback regarding their posts. Sometimes it is nice to see the respect factor. Maybe people think a little more and instead of throwing out insults they learn to post respectfully yet in a dissenting manor. Just to throw this out though, I've never neg repped ...that I remember...anyone and don't plan to unless people are childish. But I do enjoy reading the comments without having to pm. Its just not my goal to be #1. I really like just telling people that their post gave me pause to think or that I enjoyed it. Sometimes responding below the post gets lost in the shuffle.

CoachJim
07-16-2007, 03:28 PM
I see it alot like Kubes said earlier ... its harder to make this team this season as opposed to last. In my twisted mind, not just a fluff piece, its genuine.

The1ApplePie
07-16-2007, 04:27 PM
It all depends on Schaub. If he is as good as he has been hyped, then things are good. If he's another AJ Feely, things could get ugly.

I'm afraid old Matty is getting the Carr treatment, ie, not getting enough offensive help outside AJ. Green is an improvement over the crap we called RBs last year, but I think Walters is a step down from Moulds.

But, with the Titans basically losing anyone good on their team but VY, those should be two wins.

brakos82
07-16-2007, 06:49 PM
But, with the Titans basically losing anyone good on their team but VY, those should be two wins.

What about his inevitable injury? Karma has to catch up with him at some point. :bat:

threetoedpete
07-17-2007, 01:23 AM
Would you just listen to yourselves?

Has this town gotten so used to losing that we give up on them before Training Camp even starts?

ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME?

:gun:

Come on!

Do you realize that the Texas were very close to a 9-7 record last year?

We lost 3 games with less than 2 minutes to go because the offense couldn't sustain a drive.

With a QB that couldn't avoid a paper sack much less a sack from the opposing defense.


Do you losers actually expect the Houston Texans to go backwards with a "5-7" win season? Geez. Talking about a losing mentality!

NO FREAKING WAY!

The Houston Texans are moving forward. Sure we don't have the sexy players like other teams. However....

The Houston Texans will have a winning record this year!!!!!!!!!!! You can lock it up!!!!

THe Patriots won multiple Super Bowls with Tom Brady (a 6th round draft choice) and a bunch of freaking no names.

No why wonder the Houston Texans and their fans are the laughing stock of the league. This is some tough love folks.

Starting thinking like winners and quit giving up before Training Camp starts.

Quit thinking like losers!!!!!!!

:fans:

</soapbox>



Nice thread. Liked your break down. I think you hit all of the sore spots.

The fact of the matter is no matter how whipped up you wanna get, Kubiack and Smith are digesting five years of bad decidsions and personal moves. I sorly want them to win. Been a long time since I was going to Oiler games waiting for a championship team in Houston once again. The fact is however, you don't have enough mules to tote this wagon. If Ahmen holds up, if they find a decent #2 if Salaam dosen"t go down, if the back seven can create a few turn overs.... you can ignore all of the ifs if you wanna. Anything is possible. They get out the gate 2-0, upset the colts....they could make a play off run. That would be the first winning streak that this club has ever had. What the roster tells me, if they don't have a lot of sub parr tallent guys stand up and do things they've never done befor, they're going to be 8-8 if they're luvcky and a lot worse if the key injuries hit the wrong people. Doesn't matter how hard I or anybody stomps and jumps around presesason....you gotta have the tallent on the team to make a play off run. Now if you go to any reputable NFL preseason mag and start counting up the rankings...it doesn't take an Einstien to realize when you don't have but a hand full of palyers ranked in the top fifteen at their respective positions or as a group, your team is devoid of NFL caliber tallent. What they have is a bunch of journeyman guys tring to keep their rice bowl intack. Now if you get the correct coaching, catch teams under the injury bug, get a few breaks with a ball bounce, get a young team to start believing...all things are possible. But over coming the tallent thingy...that is a hard row to hoe fella. And their ain't no amount of gung ho going to change the fact that this team has upgraded it's tallent, up and down the organization, but it still doesn't have enough tallent to compete against established teams. If they split with everyone within the division with this roster that will be a major feat for me this season. They just have too many back ups starting. It's that simple.

The good news is that after five years they finally have some depth. And they're going to need it. Some of their stars are on the wrong side of thirty. Agreed with you up there Toro...two drafts ought to put them within paly off range to dethrown the Colts. I didn't agree with the passing on the FS prospect in rounds four through six, but I like our last two drafts and they're the experts. Their picks were so ....unique....someone likes these guys alot. And they get paid for this. I don't.

Now as far as preannual losers thingy goes...after the '78 and '79 seasons people from around here filled up the dome after two consecutive loses to the steelers in the AFC championship games. That team like this team had a few bright stars sprinkled around a lot of journey man who played way over their tallent levels. The difference is that this team, unlike that team dosen't have enough of those guys to make a significant contribution. And I'm basing that jump on what they achieved last year with basically the same personell. So either I gotta believe that Okye is super man, or he is a tallented rookie who'll make an impact but is still learning. I don't think anyone is expecting John Randal out of the starting gate untill the kid gets some live snaps under his belt.

You gotta have a left tackle. You gotta have a competent center and you gotta have a decent #2 CB and a ball hawking saftey. You gotta have the defense, especially on this team, create turnovers. And untill I see other wise...we ain't got none of those things yet. Prattle is prattle. Untill they get an infusion of tallent we will be the whipping boys of the AFC south. No amount of jumping around and acting the fool in preseason is going to change that. Tallent matters...in any scheme. Anything is possible, but from my tree, what I'm reading between the lines, we're just as likly to go 4-12 as 9-7. They split with Tacks and get swept by Indy and Jax...there you go. That's 1-5 for the division with the nfc south and a couple of very brutal defenses to go. Won't have long to wait. If KC and Caroline runs them out of the park, it's going to be one of those years. They can't beat them, they aren't going to challange the Colts. Third game won't be no one dinged up this year for the colts. In the third game you'll get the colts locked, loaded and in the lz loaded for bear. You can believe that one for sure if you believe anything. They'll be on the road for a 4-12 season, if they start out 0-3. The o-line dosen't like all the talk. This is their year to stand up and walk the walk. Never did a team need them more than this team this season. We'll see. Persanlly I think as a group there are , all of them mind you, far too many leaks there for a lot of hope. According to ESPN's fantasy guide, not one of them should be starting for a NFL team. Not one of them. That's pretty sad. Pi$$ me off for sure.

brakos82
07-17-2007, 01:42 AM
Nice thread. Liked you're break down. I think you hit all of the sore spots.


THere. I summed it up for you. :shades:

threetoedpete
07-17-2007, 02:05 AM
THere. I summed it up for you. :shades:

sorry didn't mean to sprain your remaining cells.

Specnatz
07-17-2007, 02:13 AM
This thread is a complete joke!! Yep lets just pack it in now and not even play any games. Lets have a completely negative view on the entire season before one game is even played. Am I on the lions board or the Houston Texans, right now it is hard to tell.

There are times to be realistic, but before training camp even freakin starts is not one of them. Makes me wonder if some of you are fan(atic)s or doom sayers.

brakos82
07-17-2007, 02:17 AM
Am I on the lions board or the Houston Texans, right now it is hard to tell.

FIRE MILLEN!

Texanmike02
07-17-2007, 06:11 AM
This thread is a complete joke!! Yep lets just pack it in now and not even play any games. Lets have a completely negative view on the entire season before one game is even played. Am I on the lions board or the Houston Texans, right now it is hard to tell.

There are times to be realistic, but before training camp even freakin starts is not one of them. Makes me wonder if some of you are fan(atic)s or doom sayers.

I'm glad to see you liked it :D

While some of you guys, most actually, are probably in Houston and get exposed to football talk (and even Texans talk) all the time... This and hpt are my only links to intelligent football discussion. I don't mind disagreements.. but to say its a joke? Could you define that for me? Was that when I made valid points? Expressed a desire for things to work out better? Predicted a bright future? Said we were moving in the right direction?

fan -noun an enthusiastic devotee, follower, or admirer of a sport, pastime, celebrity, etc.: a baseball fan; a great fan of Charlie Chaplin.

Perhaps the most devoted fans in the world, Cubs fans, don't believe they are going to win the World Series every year... they have realistic expectations (and a curse). Being a fan doesn't mean you have to pick a team to win every game... or even win over half of them... otherwise you couldn't be a football fan (since you really can't root for the game itself to win).

I believe you thought this was a myopic fan site.

my·op·ic –adjective 2. unable or unwilling to act prudently; shortsighted.
3. lacking tolerance or understanding; narrow-minded.

From what I've seen, these aren't raiders fans, which is to say, that coming out of the first week of preseason, if we are 1-0, we won't be talking super bowl just yet..

I think you'd have a hard time categorizing me as a doom sayer as well... you know the whole bright future and all...

So tell me... what's your prediction? For the record I didn't, in this particular thread, mean to open to debate what was going to happen. Only that the moves the staff has made thus far seem to point to next year as the launching point for playoff runs. It seems however, that as a community, we wanted to discuss something else entirely.

And lastly... IMHO the time for being realistic.. is oh I don't know... always... or damn close to it...

Go Texans - oh and hell, for that matter go Lions... if they rep the NFC at least it wasn't Dallas who won the NFC!!!

Mike
:fans:

threetoedpete
07-17-2007, 10:55 AM
I see it alot like Kubes said earlier ... its harder to make this team this season as opposed to last. In my twisted mind, not just a fluff piece, its genuine.

I agree with ya coach. But what he isn't finishing and what he can't say is this team is still a long ways off. I mean no one is going to throw in the towell befor they start. but c'om'on, they just don't have enough (high end) parts yet. I like all the journeyman guys I really do. But expecting Shanta Orr and Greenwood to suddenly start playing like Hary Carson and Lawrance Taylor is just a bit of a strech isn't it ? Expecting one of the strong safeties to become something of a ball hawking free safty after two season when neither has sniffed at greatness yet...I mean yeah it could happen. It's possile. Not likly. And Smith and Kubes can't stand in front of the podium and say our safties suck for play making. But eveybody at this point should know they do. Can they over come that...sure they could. Possible, not likly. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck....it's probably a duck. They need to get out of the gate 2-0.

threetoedpete
07-17-2007, 11:18 AM
I'm glad to see you liked it :D

While some of you guys, most actually, are probably in Houston and get exposed to football talk (and even Texans talk) all the time... This and hpt are my only links to intelligent football discussion. I don't mind disagreements.. but to say its a joke? Could you define that for me? Was that when I made valid points? Expressed a desire for things to work out better? Predicted a bright future? Said we were moving in the right direction?

fan -noun an enthusiastic devotee, follower, or admirer of a sport, pastime, celebrity, etc.: a baseball fan; a great fan of Charlie Chaplin.

Perhaps the most devoted fans in the world, Cubs fans, don't believe they are going to win the World Series every year... they have realistic expectations (and a curse). Being a fan doesn't mean you have to pick a team to win every game... or even win over half of them... otherwise you couldn't be a football fan (since you really can't root for the game itself to win).

I believe you thought this was a myopic fan site.

my·op·ic –adjective 2. unable or unwilling to act prudently; shortsighted.
3. lacking tolerance or understanding; narrow-minded.

From what I've seen, these aren't raiders fans, which is to say, that coming out of the first week of preseason, if we are 1-0, we won't be talking super bowl just yet..

I think you'd have a hard time categorizing me as a doom sayer as well... you know the whole bright future and all...

So tell me... what's your prediction? For the record I didn't, in this particular thread, mean to open to debate what was going to happen. Only that the moves the staff has made thus far seem to point to next year as the launching point for playoff runs. It seems however, that as a community, we wanted to discuss something else entirely.

And lastly... IMHO the time for being realistic.. is oh I don't know... always... or damn close to it...

Go Texans - oh and hell, for that matter go Lions... if they rep the NFC at least it wasn't Dallas who won the NFC!!!

Mike
:fans:



If Salaam Holds, here we go with the if's agian . I think it's pie in the sky to expect Spencer back game one. I honestly believe no one knows for sure. We'll find out in about three weeks.

They could make nine and seven and probably in the AFC with all of the qaulity clubs just miss the play offs. They could win a couple with a bad call and a good bounce...11-5. But what I believe will happen is Salaam's legs will hit a wall about week six. Spencer....if he can come back at all, will be ready and be able to take over. He will be rusty but servicable. If he can't come back, if the knee swells in August, this thread is just an acedemic exercise. Because Salaam's legs will not last another seventeen weeks. And Jordan Black can't handle OLT.

That , Charles Spencer comming back and re-starting his rookie season, should move up the o-line into a top twenty to fifteen unit. To get to 11-5, the defense has to triple it's '06 output in production. That means sixty to seventy sacks and turnovers. That means four extra oportunities per game for the offense. Sure Robinson could go from a couple of picks to double digits. But with Petie Faggins matched up with the speed on the other side, and no one with the speed at free safty to help 'ol petie, where are Dante's oportunities going to come from ?
11 & 5, Posible, not likly. Gotta win ten or more for a sure shot at the play offs in the AFC.

DocBar
07-22-2007, 06:33 PM
This isn't a "glass half empty" topic. You don't even HAVE a glass if you're doggin the team before they even have a day of TC. It's more like the "little paper cup the dentist has you swish and rinse with is 3/4 empty". You can what if things to death. If your aunt had balls, she'd be your uncle. This team made some good moves this offseason and I see no reason we can't be in the hunt for a WC spot in December. We lost several close games last year, finally beat the Colts, and went out on a high note that wasn't another team stepping on our collective jock straps. We also have a favorable schedule for hitting the.500 mark, at least. '07 will serve notice the Texans aren't stepping stones anymore. We'll be knockin on the door this year and in '08, we'll kick that playoff door in!:bat:

Texanmike02
07-22-2007, 06:44 PM
If your aunt had balls, she'd be your uncle.

If if was a fifth we'd all be drunk.....

seriously though, you act like those of us who think this isn't an 8-10 win season are the one's with a bunch of ifs.

Mike

DocBar
07-22-2007, 07:07 PM
If if was a fifth we'd all be drunk.....

seriously though, you act like those of us who think this isn't an 8-10 win season are the one's with a bunch of ifs.

Mike I don't mean to come off like that. I have 2 BIG ifs. If MW(or Dline as a whole) has the breakout year I think he will, a lot of our other concerns on D simply disappear.
IF Matt Schaub has a fraction of the talent, pocket presence and leadership abilties we think he has, a lot of our offensive woes go bye-bye.
Those 2 players having good years will make the rest of the team seem much better and allow the coaching staff more flexabilty. No, we don't have superstars at the vast majority of positions, but we DO have some talented players that can make the total better than the sum of its parts. Proper coaching and a couple of superstars can make a huge difference. See also NE, Pittsburgh, Philly, N.O. and Cincinnati. Check out Washington to see how well it works the other way.

brakos82
07-22-2007, 10:15 PM
This isn't a "glass half empty" topic. You don't even HAVE a glass if you're doggin the team before they even have a day of TC. It's more like the "little paper cup the dentist has you swish and rinse with is 3/4 empty". You can what if things to death. If your aunt had balls, she'd be your uncle. This team made some good moves this offseason and I see no reason we can't be in the hunt for a WC spot in December. We lost several close games last year, finally beat the Colts, and went out on a high note that wasn't another team stepping on our collective jock straps. We also have a favorable schedule for hitting the.500 mark, at least. '07 will serve notice the Texans aren't stepping stones anymore. We'll be knockin on the door this year and in '08, we'll kick that playoff door in!:bat:

1. Why can't we use a pitcher?

2. I think my head hurts from being stepped on.

3. Why can't we just pick the lock? You can break your foot doing that.

Pantherstang84
07-22-2007, 10:50 PM
This isn't a "glass half empty" topic. You don't even HAVE a glass if you're doggin the team before they even have a day of TC. It's more like the "little paper cup the dentist has you swish and rinse with is 3/4 empty". You can what if things to death. If your aunt had balls, she'd be your uncle. This team made some good moves this offseason and I see no reason we can't be in the hunt for a WC spot in December. We lost several close games last year, finally beat the Colts, and went out on a high note that wasn't another team stepping on our collective jock straps. We also have a favorable schedule for hitting the.500 mark, at least. '07 will serve notice the Texans aren't stepping stones anymore. We'll be knockin on the door this year and in '08, we'll kick that playoff door in!:bat:

The Doc said it better than I ever could.

DocBar
07-23-2007, 09:05 AM
1. Why can't we use a pitcher?

2. I think my head hurts from being stepped on.

3. Why can't we just pick the lock? You can break your foot doing that.

1. Pitchers are used in baseball and restaurants.
2. You're hearts in the right place, but you might want to pull your head out. :shades:
3. You gotta go bustin' in like John Wayne!!! We don't wanna sneak in. We wanna EXPLODE onto the scene!!! Besides, I like the nostalgia of quoting Bum Phillips.

Texans_Chick
07-23-2007, 09:41 AM
While some of you guys, most actually, are probably in Houston and get exposed to football talk (and even Texans talk) all the time... This and hpt are my only links to intelligent football discussion.


You could join the conversation here too: FanHouse Texans (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/category/texans/) :cool:

brakos82
07-23-2007, 12:42 PM
1. Pitchers are used in baseball and restaurants.
2. You're hearts in the right place, but you might want to pull your head out. :shades:
3. You gotta go bustin' in like John Wayne!!! We don't wanna sneak in. We wanna EXPLODE onto the scene!!! Besides, I like the nostalgia of quoting Bum Phillips.

1. And iced tea machines :shades:

2. I have a headache. :ouch:

3. As long as it isn't MY foot...

DocBar
07-23-2007, 12:48 PM
1. And iced tea machines :shades:

2. I have a headache. :ouch:

3. As long as it isn't MY foot...

1. They use pitchers in iced tea machines?? Or they use Iced tea machines to FILL pitchers?? Sounds very Zen of you. LOL

2. ummmm....try wearing a helmet. This IS a football forum!!! LOL some more.

3. We're gonna use John Wayne's foot!!! Didn't you read my earlier post? DUH!!:user:

brakos82
07-23-2007, 12:50 PM
1. They use pitchers in iced tea machines?? Or they use Iced tea machines to FILL pitchers?? Sounds very Zen of you. LOL

2. ummmm....try wearing a helmet. This IS a football forum!!! LOL some more.

3. We're gonna use John Wayne's foot!!! Didn't you read my earlier post? DUH!!:user:

1. The second one.

2. That might help.

3. Good. :shades:

Specnatz
07-23-2007, 01:19 PM
While some of you guys, most actually, are probably in Houston and get exposed to football talk (and even Texans talk) all the time... This and hpt are my only links to intelligent football discussion. I don't mind disagreements.. but to say its a joke? Could you define that for me? Was that when I made valid points? Expressed a desire for things to work out better? Predicted a bright future? Said we were moving in the right direction?

fan -noun an enthusiastic devotee, follower, or admirer of a sport, pastime, celebrity, etc.: a baseball fan; a great fan of Charlie Chaplin.

And lastly... IMHO the time for being realistic.. is oh I don't know... always... or damn close to it...

Go Texans - oh and hell, for that matter go Lions... if they rep the NFC at least it wasn't Dallas who won the NFC!!!

Mike
:fans:

As far as intelligent sports talk, this and fanhouse are probably the only spots you will find it. because with the load of crap fox, espin and the other disinformation shovlers there is none out there except these places.


What I ment by this being a load of crap is you have not seen the QB play, everyone seems to predict Green to only play about 4 games before he gets hurt and the Texans will not have another wr but AJ.

Being realistic is fine if you have all the information, but when you do not have all the facts or the information, then you are being negative not realistic.


:texflag:

badboy
07-23-2007, 02:43 PM
Ok since no one want to go out on a limb and say what they think, I predict either 16-0 or 0-16. WHAHAAHAHH

DocBar
07-23-2007, 03:06 PM
Ok since no one want to go out on a limb and say what they think, I predict either 16-0 or 0-16. WHAHAAHAHH

UH-OH...He's using the John Kerry Flip Flop move on us...:bat:
Is this an election year???

badboy
07-23-2007, 03:21 PM
UH-OH...He's using the John Kerry Flip Flop move on us...:bat:
Is this an election year???Now I will perform my MJ moon walk then the cajun crawfish. Seriously, any of the off season moves and returns from injuries could flop, but if even a few of them do what is hoped; it could be a really fine year for wine.

DocBar
07-23-2007, 03:57 PM
Now I will perform my MJ moon walk then the cajun crawfish. Seriously, any of the off season moves and returns from injuries could flop, but if even a few of them do what is hoped; it could be a really fine year for wine. Amen, brother!! That's why they have to play the games.

Texanmike02
07-24-2007, 01:18 AM
As far as intelligent sports talk, this and fanhouse are probably the only spots you will find it. because with the load of crap fox, espin and the other disinformation shovlers there is none out there except these places.


What I ment by this being a load of crap is you have not seen the QB play, everyone seems to predict Green to only play about 4 games before he gets hurt and the Texans will not have another wr but AJ.

Being realistic is fine if you have all the information, but when you do not have all the facts or the information, then you are being negative not realistic.


:texflag:

So you assuming that the QB is going to come in and win his first several games with a new team, the first time he's handed the reins as the starter is a load of well informed roses, while my assuming he may struggle in a new (albeit similar) system throwing to new receivers for new coaches behind a new offensive line is somehow a load of crap?

Additionally, while I've never predicted 4 games, it is completely asinine for me to insinuate that a guy who hasn't played a full season in the last two years and is now 30 (the wall for most running backs) might not play the entire season.

And you are absolutely right. I am a complete moron for not expecting us to find a legit 2nd receiver out of a bunch of guys who have about 100 catches in their entire careers.

From now on I should put on rose colored glasses and sing kumbyah... so tell me where can I get the koolaid?

Mike

Kaiser Toro
07-24-2007, 08:19 AM
So you assuming that the QB is going to come in and win his first several games with a new team, the first time he's handed the reins as the starter is a load of well informed roses, while my assuming he may struggle in a new (albeit similar) system throwing to new receivers for new coaches behind a new offensive line is somehow a load of crap?

Additionally, while I've never predicted 4 games, it is completely asinine for me to insinuate that a guy who hasn't played a full season in the last two years and is now 30 (the wall for most running backs) might not play the entire season.

And you are absolutely right. I am a complete moron for not expecting us to find a legit 2nd receiver out of a bunch of guys who have about 100 catches in their entire careers.

From now on I should put on rose colored glasses and sing kumbyah... so tell me where can I get the koolaid?

Mike

It seems you really want to be right about the Texans failing this year. I hope you are not.

The QB position has been awful the last five years, partly due to the OL and the skill of the former half a QB we employed. Kubiak has been involved as a player and coach with the position for almost thirty years. Schaub is his acquisition at the position that he has commanded for almost three decades and that should carry a significant amount of weight in my opinion. The Falcons, another NFL team, valued Schaub as they restricted him. Schaub has played for two NFL coaches Mora and Groh (Virginia) and played in a similar offense as the Texans.

I am optimistic about Schaub because I see us getting better at the QB position via addition through subtraction (Carr, just like when Kubiak took the ball out of his hands and when Sage was in the game), Kubiak's got his fingerprints all over Schaub, therefore he is accountable, and Schaub has the size, demeanor and skills.

Lots of "ifs" in the NFL every year, unfortunately we have not even have had many discussions in past years around "if' as it applies to the Texans. I'll take it as it feels good. :texflag:

HJam72
07-24-2007, 08:31 AM
So you assuming that the QB is going to come in and win his first several games with a new team, the first time he's handed the reins as the starter is a load of well informed roses, while my assuming he may struggle in a new (albeit similar) system throwing to new receivers for new coaches behind a new offensive line is somehow a load of crap?

Additionally, while I've never predicted 4 games, it is completely asinine for me to insinuate that a guy who hasn't played a full season in the last two years and is now 30 (the wall for most running backs) might not play the entire season.

And you are absolutely right. I am a complete moron for not expecting us to find a legit 2nd receiver out of a bunch of guys who have about 100 catches in their entire careers.

From now on I should put on rose colored glasses and sing kumbyah... so tell me where can I get the koolaid?

Mike

You may very well be right about Green not lasting the whole season. But, let's look at how last year (when we won 6 games) compares:

Last year, we didn't have Green at all. Whatever Green gives us, however many games he lasts, will help our overall RB production for the year. Dayne, Lundy, Gado, whoever, will be fresher later on because of what Green did. Furthermore, the last 4 or 5 games last year we rushed much better than all season up to that point because of Vonta Leach at FB. I think we are ready to have a very good year running, even if Green doesn't last as long as we all hope.

There's also the obvious and already stated "Schaub is bound to be better than Carr" statement. Most of us adhere to it.

I also agree that most teams do have various problems, or at least areas they'd like to be better at. I still think we're looking at about 8.5 wins this year.

Specnatz
07-24-2007, 02:24 PM
So you assuming that the QB is going to come in and win his first several games with a new team, the first time he's handed the reins as the starter is a load of well informed roses, while my assuming he may struggle in a new (albeit similar) system throwing to new receivers for new coaches behind a new offensive line is somehow a load of crap?

Additionally, while I've never predicted 4 games, it is completely asinine for me to insinuate that a guy who hasn't played a full season in the last two years and is now 30 (the wall for most running backs) might not play the entire season.

And you are absolutely right. I am a complete moron for not expecting us to find a legit 2nd receiver out of a bunch of guys who have about 100 catches in their entire careers.

From now on I should put on rose colored glasses and sing kumbyah... so tell me where can I get the koolaid?

Mike

NO i would rather watch at least one preseason game before I do either. I did not call you a moron, or imply that you are one.

I am not saying wear rose colored glasses, but I am asking you to take the ones covered in the brown stuff off.

Texanmike02
07-24-2007, 06:56 PM
It seems you really want to be right about the Texans failing this year. I hope you are not.

The QB position has been awful the last five years, partly due to the OL and the skill of the former half a QB we employed. Kubiak has been involved as a player and coach with the position for almost thirty years. Schaub is his acquisition at the position that he has commanded for almost three decades and that should carry a significant amount of weight in my opinion. The Falcons, another NFL team, valued Schaub as they restricted him. Schaub has played for two NFL coaches Mora and Groh (Virginia) and played in a similar offense as the Texans.

I am optimistic about Schaub because I see us getting better at the QB position via addition through subtraction (Carr, just like when Kubiak took the ball out of his hands and when Sage was in the game), Kubiak's got his fingerprints all over Schaub, therefore he is accountable, and Schaub has the size, demeanor and skills.

Lots of "ifs" in the NFL every year, unfortunately we have not even have had many discussions in past years around "if' as it applies to the Texans. I'll take it as it feels good. :texflag:

I want nothing more than the Texans to win. I'm very optimistic about the future, I just don't think its this year. For the record I have been calling for Schaub since the end of last season, so I am very high on him. I have loved almost every move the Texans made this year, I just don't necessarily love them as much for this year as I do next year. Schaub, for the record, according to an article I was reading at the beginning of the year (just after the superbowl) has played in an offense similar to this one in one way or another all the way back to H.S.

You are still facing the same issues though. He's still a first year starter, granted a very experienced one, he's still a first year starter. He's also coming to a new system with new receivers, a new line etc. People around here seem to think I am predicting total failure which is far from the case. I'm actually predicting a 6 (and with Vick's stuff 7) win season. I'm also predicting that we lose some games we should win and win some games we should lose. Could we be this year's version of the 2001 Patriots? Maybe. Do we have the potential for a very nice season, I suppose. But if I was betting to make money and the number was 7.5, I'm taking the under.

Mike

Texanmike02
07-24-2007, 07:13 PM
You may very well be right about Green not lasting the whole season. But, let's look at how last year (when we won 6 games) compares:

Last year, we didn't have Green at all. Whatever Green gives us, however many games he lasts, will help our overall RB production for the year. Dayne, Lundy, Gado, whoever, will be fresher later on because of what Green did. Furthermore, the last 4 or 5 games last year we rushed much better than all season up to that point because of Vonta Leach at FB. I think we are ready to have a very good year running, even if Green doesn't last as long as we all hope.

There's also the obvious and already stated "Schaub is bound to be better than Carr" statement. Most of us adhere to it.

I also agree that most teams do have various problems, or at least areas they'd like to be better at. I still think we're looking at about 8.5 wins this year.

I have no question that the individual parts on this team are better than those that we rolled out there last year. Especially on offense. I just think its going to take a while for them to jell. Also when rb's turn 30 things have a tendency to go down hill quickly If this were a 20 or 22 game season I'd probably be picking us to go a couple of games over .500.

Mike

HJam72
07-24-2007, 10:52 PM
Texanmike, I still don't quite agree, but those last two posts were good explanations for your point of view. I must spread some rep around first.

spurstexanstros
07-26-2007, 04:19 PM
ok you have heard why this isnt a playoff season and now it is my turn to tell you why they will make the playoffs and be a field goal away from the unimaginable. ( im not gonna say it but the candian bacon steve nash plays there hint hint)

1. They remind me of the minnesota vikings of the late 90's(98 i think) when they were a field goal from winning the conference. They had a dominate reciever that had a break out year. (as do we)

2. They had a perennial back up get his first chance to lead his own team (Brad Johnson)

3. A dominate defensive line that leasd the league in hurries, sacks and batted balls. ( our d-line has that potential)

They came out of nowhere to have a great year and so can we.

ps remeber the Rams, the bucs, panthers, saints etc. Worst to first teams. the league is a league of parody. They are only one posession away from greatness

TexansLucky13
07-26-2007, 04:32 PM
I don't see why this can't be a playoff year. The AFC South is in shambles. We may break the mold. We may break down. You never know.

Double Barrel
07-26-2007, 04:55 PM
The AFC South is in shambles.

Huh? :um:

We've got the reigning Super Bowl champions in our division. I think it's always an uphill battle as long as Manning is at the top of his game. The best we can hope for is a backdoor wildcard, IMO.

brakos82
07-26-2007, 04:59 PM
Huh? :um:

We've got the reigning Super Bowl champions in our division. I think it's always an uphill battle as long as Manning is at the top of his game. The best we can hope for is a backdoor wildcard, IMO.

If 5 teams get 12-4 or better... :splits:

ObsiWan
07-26-2007, 05:36 PM
I have no question that the individual parts on this team are better than those that we rolled out there last year. Especially on offense. I just think its going to take a while for them to jell. Also when rb's turn 30 things have a tendency to go down hill quickly If this were a 20 or 22 game season I'd probably be picking us to go a couple of games over .500.

Mike

There are five pages of posts in this thread and that sentence right there is the most critical statement of anything I saw.

Its not just who we have but how they play as a team that will determine our success or failure. We made soooo many additions and subtractions this off-season that this training camp and preseason are going to be crucial. Let's review: New QB, new starting RB, new OT, new WRs, all coming in from other systems. They have 5-6 weeks to learn our system and each other. Its going to take some time, friends and neighbors, for them to come together and become a team.

To Schaub's credit, he seems to be doing everything humanly possible to help the offense become a cohesive unit. Ahman has been reunited with Leach, his lead blocker in GB. I think these two things will expedite the jelling process on offense. But they don't establish timing with WRs not named Andre Johnson. They don't solidify the O-line. Only on-field reps do that.

The defense is ahead of the game because they didn't make as many major moves as the offense did. This is most of the guys' 2nd year in Smith's system so there should be less thinking and more play-making. Hopefully, Smith will blitz more than he did in the first 3 games.

No doubt in my mind that we're a better team this year, on paper. But as Kubes said himself, that don't mean nuthin'. You gotta produce out on the field.

This is year two of the turn-around. Early on, I think we'll surprise some folks who think we're "the same ole Texans". We may not win, but everyone we play will know they've been in a battle. If we make progress like I think we can, by the time we reach the BYE week, no one will want to play us.

My prediction - without my Steel-Blue glasses on - is 8 & 8, +/- one game. Next year, we fight the division crown.

dalemurphy
07-26-2007, 05:48 PM
Huh? :um:

We've got the reigning Super Bowl champions in our division. I think it's always an uphill battle as long as Manning is at the top of his game. The best we can hope for is a backdoor wildcard, IMO.

He could get injured... He may not be the same with inexperience at LT. The already suspect defense took a lot of personnel hits. They lost depth at RB... Jacksonville and Tennessee are both in trouble this year, IMO...

certainly I wouldn't say we are likely to win the division, but if things fall right, I think we've got a shot... That kind of hope isn't something I've had the first 5 years.

Texanmike02
07-26-2007, 07:18 PM
ok you have heard why this isnt a playoff season and now it is my turn to tell you why they will make the playoffs and be a field goal away from the unimaginable. ( im not gonna say it but the candian bacon steve nash plays there hint hint)

1. They remind me of the minnesota vikings of the late 90's(98 i think) when they were a field goal from winning the conference. They had a dominate reciever that had a break out year. (as do we)

2. They had a perennial back up get his first chance to lead his own team (Brad Johnson)

3. A dominate defensive line that leasd the league in hurries, sacks and batted balls. ( our d-line has that potential)

They came out of nowhere to have a great year and so can we.




So should I list the 50 or so teams that have had the same aspirations over the last 10 years that didn't pull off the miracle. Since our defense hasn't finished in the top 10 in sacks hurries or batted balls since we've been in the league I'm a little hesitant to crown them just yet.

I mean ANYTHING is possible, but you talk about it like it is the most likely scenario.

That team you're speaking of, by the way... the Minn team had a young receiver who had a breakout year. You're right Moss had a big breakout year. But unlike this team they had a very solid 2nd or 1a reciver) Chris Carter and like it or not KW is no Chris Carter. They also had a 26 year old Robert Smith who ran the ball very effectively. They weren't lead by Brad Johnson (that was the year before) but rather by Randell Cunningham (not a career backup but a very capable vet). They also had 3 OL make the pro bowl.

One of the reasons they had so many sacks and hurries was they were able to pin their ears back and go after the QB. That's because their offense got them up big, early and often (I think they scored over 35 points in half their games that year).

Their head coach was in his 7th year as their coach and they had never finished worse than 8-8 under him. They won 9 games each of the previous years.

The only similarity between that team and this one would have to be they had a promising young DL and LB corps.

ps remeber the Rams, the bucs, panthers, saints etc. Worst to first teams. the league is a league of parody. They are only one posession away from greatness


Yes I remember those teams.

The Rams are the closest to your argument. They however brought over a young (5th season in the league not going on his 10th) Marshall Faulk over. Their lines were both solid (that was the days of a young pace). They had a system that had been in place for two years and a receiving corps that included Bruce, Holt and Akeem (don't know if you remember him he was just an incredible burner).On defense they were better than average but it was again, mostly their offense that took over and kept the other team off the field.


If you're talking about Tampa they were the "dark horse" for years before they won the SB. They won on defense and were built more similar to the Texans than any other team you mentioned in my opinion. They did have a QB starting for his second year before they finally broke out, but they won with defense.

The Panthers... they have been just a crazy franchise to follow. They got hit had with injuries if I remember after Capers left. Then they went 7-9 after they brought in a new coach, and a vet QB, but they won with defense. They also won in a horrible division that year. The year you're most likely talking about is the one they went 11-5 in a mediocre division. (nobody over 8-8, and Atlanta was w/o Vick.

The Saints... in no way similar to our situation. They had injuries kill them the year before, got a healthy Deuce back (pro-bowl pre injury) and generally had more offensive weapons on their team than we've had in 5 years combined. That took pressure off the defense and allowed them to play much better because they could control the tempo of the game on offense.

Am I saying its impossible? Absolutely not. You forgot the Colts who went 3-13 and then took advantage of a soft schedule to go 13-3 the next year. We don't have that advantage either.

Our day will come. There will be a time when we are the favorite Dark horse, but we play in a division with the SB champs (who's offense will always make them tough to beat). Life ain't going to be easy. We also play in the AFC instead of the NFC.

Mike

Texanmike02
07-27-2007, 12:57 PM
He could get injured... He may not be the same with inexperience at LT. The already suspect defense took a lot of personnel hits. They lost depth at RB... Jacksonville and Tennessee are both in trouble this year, IMO...

certainly I wouldn't say we are likely to win the division, but if things fall right, I think we've got a shot... That kind of hope isn't something I've had the first 5 years.

Something tells me Manning won't be missing time. Dude played with a broken jaw. Their line has been so solid for so long all the way around. They rotate alot so Tarkik retiring shouldn't be that big of a deal.

I suppose we have a shot. Then again so does everyone. Raider's fans are talking SB right now.... lets not get that kind of rep.

Mike

Texanmike02
10-01-2007, 03:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texanmike
There is a reason that Green Bay let him go, and they are kind of in a win now mode since their franchise star is in his last year or two, but they are prepared to go into the season with, get this, Vernand Morency, listed as their #1 back right now.



I believe this to be a false statement.


Just checking up on some of my old posts.. trying to see how I think I did.. and I read this... not so much Texans related... I didn't mean however they were going to go 4-0 lol




Mike

Texanmike02
10-01-2007, 03:59 AM
Again, I'l apologize in advance... its long.. and may not appeal to anyone.. but this is how bad I'm jonsing for some football discussion:

Ok we see a bunch of guys picking 9-11 win seasons. I have been reading alot about this team and their acquisitions and it just doesn't add up. Sure Kubes tows the company line, and says he expects to make a push (actually earlier he wasn't saying that) and of course the Texans are going to try to sell tickets THIS year, which means they aren't going to come out and say "we're targeting 08/09 to make the playoffs"... but many of their actions point to this being a developmental year... one in which they don't expect to make the playoffs, but rather they expect to make improvements in personnel and the system.... not so much worrying about the win total.

Consider the holes we have left in this team...

1. SS, I know I know... we beat Manning for the first time. But do you really expect to beat them with our secondary? Talk up the D-line (I'll get to that in a minute) all you want... but this secondary is going to be, for the 3rd year running, awful. Other than DR.. I don't think anybody starting in our secondary would even be guaranteed a backup job on half the teams in the league. We've got a nickel and dime back (Faggins and Fletcher) and two guys who are horrible at deep zone coverage and providing safety help (Earl and Brown).. in a division where you have to face one of the top 5 qb's I've ever watched play with my own eyes; twice.
Don't think I was too far off on this one. Our entire secondary (except D-Rob) is atrocious. Faggins and Fletcher are what we thought they were. And its amazing how infrequently we hear the Safties talked about

2. OL, You made some nice additions... but I don't care what Kubes says... we're waiting to see what happens to Spencer. If this was a year in which we were aiming to make the playoffs.. we don't wait on Spencer. We go get ourselves a Tackle in the draft (prob trade down.. or pick one up later in the draft.) I like Black and all... and maybe I'm wrong... but it seems to me like we're waiting to see if Spencer pans out.
I think I was way wrong on this front. Our line, is for the first time in our history, better at pass blocking than run blocking. I definately didn't see this happening.

3. Wr, Instead of looking at an OT (I don't recall who was available in the 3rd round to be onest) we take a project WR. A guy who it would appear to me, if he is a long term solution, is at least a year or two away from winning. The best we can come up with are two guys who share a name with Andre, and I'm not really thinking the Andre and Andre show is really going to be much more exciting than the Andre Johnson show and Johnson and Johnson is already been done... we're sounds like a sponsor for the power puff league if you ask me. Walters... meh... maybe... but I'm pretty sure that no DC's are burning the midnight oil wondering how they are going to cover both AJ AND Kevin at the same time.
With the emergence of Davis... I think i was a little off on this front. Walter is pretty much what I thought he is. Too slow to play on the outside. He really needs to be a slot guy. He runs good routes and hangs onto the ball. If Johnson gets back... the Andre and Andre show may be worth watching. And if they are both that good, Walter is a good/very good slot reciever. I was apperantly at least right about Bethal.

4. RB, I know we brought in Green. But I still think he's a system guy. He's only guaranteed 6.5 mil, and we have to expect him to get hurt (again). I would bet he's here to teach the system... mentor the kids and show them how you prepare to win in this league. There is a reason that Green Bay let him go, and they are kind of in a win now mode since their franchise star is in his last year or two, but they are prepared to go into the season with, get this, Vernand Morency, listed as their #1 back right now.
I am going to go ahead and call this one for myself. Granted it was pretty much a no brainer.. ok so really you don't have to give me credit for this

5. DL: Its the cool thing to talk about Amobe like he's going to make a difference this year... and he might... but you brought this kid in for the future. There were several players who could make an immediate impact this year at either the WR/DB/RB position THIS year. Don't get me a wrong... I'm a fan of building from the inside out... and I think that we've finally got a direction and a legit plan... But he's going to spend this year learning how the big boys play. He, like most of this team... is going to look brilliant at times... and others he's going to look like we have two Courtney Browns on this team. He was brought in to DEVELOP with MW... no to register a combined 25 sacks this year. If we were trying to make a playoff push this year I don't think we'd be relying on Amobe.
I think I was right. I just think Amobe is better than we anticipated. I don't think we expected him to be having the effect he's had this year. But I'll take the knock from those wanting to blast me for it.

6. LB: There were a few in the draft.. and several in free agency and two or 3 legit 1st or 2nd stringers on our roster. Ryans is NICE.. and he's SMART... but he doesn't run a 2.4 40... which means he can't cover the entire field... We're weak at either OLB position and outside of him and Greenwood... we don't have a guy who has had over 80 tackles in the last 3 years (edit Danny Clark has... forgot about him... but last year with the Raiders, in 16 games he turned in a whopping 29 tackles).
I think I was right on here. We don't have enough speed, and we've had a few mistakes made by the LBs. Over all their play is above average because we have a stud in the middle.

Other things I think point to an 08/09 run for the playoffs:

1. Matt Schaub:

1st year starter, 1st year in this system (I know he has played in a similar system since his H.S. days but still a new system). He will be good. He might be great... but not this year. Its a move in another direction.. and I've said it before... our first 6 games would have been more smooth if we kept DC and let him take a pounding while Schaub gets his bearings.
Schaub has definately had a little to learn. He's thrown basically the same interception 3 times this year. That said he is learning, and he's playing better than I thought through 4 weeks.


We have added ALOT of young guys... via draft and signings... and the guys we've added that are vets... like Zgonina and Wynn... etc are either on the downside of their carer or they are in the league because they are smart... and clipboard type guys. We didn't go add a big performer in my opinion... we added depth... and we added vets to teach these young guys we do have how to play. (anybody notice a change in DR's play once we lost Glenn?). Again I think these are great moves.... among the many mistakes made in handling HWWDNSO and many of our other young players... was that they didn't really have guys to mentor them. Tony Banks? please... Sharper wasn't the same player when he left... but our defense fell apart when he and Glenn were gone.... in part, I think because there was noone to teach these kids how to prepare.
I was close here too. Wynn hasn't been playing much... and you know we didn't anticipate him returning kicks, not with Mathis/Jones on the roster... he's mentoring if you ask me. Same with Zgonina. WE ARE WAITING TILL WE HAVE MONEY if you ask me....

We had to know we were getting Schaub... or at least we weren't going to go for Carr again... that was pretty much written in stone... but we released Moulds? I know he hasn't gotten many phone calls... but I'm pretty sure he gets one before any of the other WR's not named Andre Johnson on our roster. Again... you probably have to find out if Walters is the answer... I'm not sold... but then again I'm not even paid to write my opinion even on a website or a newspaper... much less to make personnel decisions... so I could be completely wrong... this is just the vibe I get from the way the off season is going...

Bash away...

Mike

Overalll I was in the ball park... just not right on... nobody really needs to comment.. its just this is the first time I've had significant time to talk texans and there aren't many people on. Since I'm not at home I don't have all of my tools I use for stats analysis. The team is definately beter than I thought they would be... I still don't think we're a playoff team though. And the injury to Green set us back quite a few steps.

Mike

Kaiser Toro
10-01-2007, 04:03 AM
Whew! I am so glad to be reminded this is not a playoff year again.

Texanmike02
10-01-2007, 04:06 AM
Whew! I am so glad to be reminded this is not a playoff year again.


LOL. That wasn't the point.. I was off on quite a few aspects.. and like I said.. its you and me reading right now.. this is the most active I've been in over a month... so I figured I'd go see how I was doing.

Oh... but, it isn't.

Mike

painekiller
10-01-2007, 04:46 AM
LOL. That wasn't the point.. I was off on quite a few aspects.. and like I said.. its you and me reading right now.. this is the most active I've been in over a month... so I figured I'd go see how I was doing.

Oh... but, it isn't.

Mike

I thought like you did before training camp. Once I went to the practice and saw the team as a group, I was impressed by the changes in attitude. I admit I drank the tea and wore the Battle Red Glasses.

After four weeks, I see a team that is still one year away with regards to the getting better than average front line talent at all starting positions. That said, if we can stop the injury bug, and get every one back, this is a solid team. Much more solid than I would have predicted in May.

I still think the team will be playing meaningful games in December, and will finish with it's first winning record. But we are another successful draft away from being one of the teams expecting to win every week by the talking heads on TV.

Kaiser Toro
10-01-2007, 05:08 AM
LOL. That wasn't the point.. I was off on quite a few aspects.. and like I said.. its you and me reading right now.. this is the most active I've been in over a month... so I figured I'd go see how I was doing.

Oh... but, it isn't.

Mike

You are Debbie Downer. There are only five teams in the conference that have a better winning percentage. I cannot wait until we really start piling on the losses to prove to everyone this is not a playoff team. :rolleyes:

I have never been around folks that want to throw in the towel so willingly and triumphantly.

Houston is officially the towel thrower capital of the world.