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maddogmrb
07-12-2007, 07:33 PM
I just went over to Texan Chick's blog and watched the video of Amobi in the Senior Bowl.

I'm sorry guys & gals but I just wasn't overly impressed. Yes, he beat a slow guard one on one on obvious passing downs a couple of times but, the rest of the time he appeared to be handled fairly easily.

Whoever was "marking" the video was exagerrating his value to the defense. In one instance, he marked the screen saying that Amobi "held his position and secured his side of the line" ........ actually the play went to the other side of the line and he was a non-factor. A couple of times the "marker" said he "commanded" a double team and I believe he was double teamed because the play was coming at him and he was a total non-factor each time as the double team easily took him out of the play.

He's fast but, he looked small. He looked much more like a DE than a DT to me. He certainly didn't dominate his peers to the point of being worthy of the 10th pick in the draft.

He's the youngest player ever taken in the 1st round and he's only had ONE good year at the college level???? Even the commentators at the Sr. Bowl said he went from being an average player to being a good one in one year.

I'm concerned that we reached for him at #10 and he won't be a factor for at least a couple of years, if ever, and I have doubts that he will ever be an effective DT. NFL guards aren't as easy to beat as those in the Sr. Bowl (unless they're in Texans uniforms, of course).

Go watch the video and tell me if I'm smoking the wacky stuff or what!

Vinny
07-12-2007, 07:36 PM
Go watch the video and tell me if I'm smoking the wacky stuff or what!
I share some of your concerns but I hope that they are short term problems (not that he has proven to have any problems yet). I think he is going to get pushed around quite a bit his rookie year and really struggle when run directly at....he will be more effective when the play is going the other way and in pursuit and in passing situations. Anyone looking for immediate returns may be disappointed.

Second Honeymoon
07-12-2007, 07:48 PM
I share some of your concerns but I hope that they are short term problems (not that he has proven to have any problems yet). I think he is going to get pushed around quite a bit his rookie year and really struggle when run directly at....he will be more effective when the play is going the other way and in pursuit and in passing situations. Anyone looking for immediate returns may be disappointed.

yup with the back to back selections of Mario and Amobi, the Texans are going with the 'slow pay' method of building a team. The good thing is that if everything works out, we should be set at DL for the near future.

its kinda like buying an IPO stock. it may not pay off instantly with dividends but it shows signs that it could grow.

similar to my America Movil stock which has grown over 3000% in the past 3 years :) *pats self on back* bought it at 5dollars now teetering in the mid 60s. America Movil basically paid for my season tickets this year :) thanks Slim

Lucky
07-12-2007, 07:53 PM
Go watch the video and tell me if I'm smoking the wacky stuff or what!
There was a link to videos of the Senior Bowl practices around, but I can't find it. In those clips, Okoye dominated all week. That does not mean he will dominate the NFL, but Amobi was definitely a cut above the players he went against that week.

As far as the Mel Kiper line of "going from an average player to being a good one in one year", Okoye was ages 16-18 his first 3 seasons at Louisville. A lot of football players make a big jump from age 18 to 19. Usually, it's in high school playing other teenagers. I can't blame the Texans for taking Okoye's potential into consideration. Frankly, it's a gutsy move by Smith & Kubiak that may benefit the Texans more in '09 than it does in '07. I hope they're around to see that.

V3rm0nt3r
07-12-2007, 07:54 PM
i like this

with the debt we've amassed we might be able to hold this against him and with Jeff Zgonina being mainly a run stopper at this point we can swap them out on obvious passing and running downs.

Porky
07-12-2007, 07:59 PM
While Vinny is probably right that he won't be consistently dominant his rookie year which is no surprise, I will disagree with the thread starter. I think we will see flashes of what he can become, while also seeing how far he has to go. No surprise there.

I watched NFL network before the draft, and they had some ISO's on him both from his Jr and Senior seasons as well as Senior Bowl practice and the game. One thing that was evident was that he made tremendous progress from his Jr year to his Sr year, and continued that progress right on through the Sr bowl, where he was more than holding his own against older players.

I admit I am not an expert, I can only go by what I see. I liked him much more than Mario based on the pre-draft film I saw. I saw unreal quickness at times, and a real pass rush presence in the middle. I was much more excited about it when we drafted him, then the Mario draft. He reminded me of a really young Warren Sapp. I feel that over time that is the type of player he will become.

There is never a guarantee with any player, but Mike Mayock and the other NFL network folks were raving about him. I guess the proof is in the pudding as professional football scouts thought enough of his game to draft him in the top 10, and many thought that was low for a player of his calibur.:devilpig:

the wonger need food
07-12-2007, 08:18 PM
Defensive Lineman generally have the toughest transition from College to the Pros so I wouldn't expect him to make the Pro Bowl this year.

Without knowing exactly what his responsibities were for each particular play it's nearly impossible to critique his performance. From what I saw he dominated Ben Grubbs (the first Guard taken in this year's draft) on numerous occasions.

He didn't dominate his peers in an All-Star game (which in reality he did on several occasions) so he's not worthy of a top 10 draft pick? Whatever...

Texans_Chick
07-12-2007, 09:56 PM
Here's various links with stuff that might be of interest re: Okoye:

Megan Manfull writes for SportingNews.com along with the Chronic. In her latest Texans review, she said:

Rookie DT Amobi Okoye's biggest issue in training camp could simply be dealing with the heat. He just turned 20 years old, but his age is hardly holding him back. He fit instantly in with the team and is grasping the system and the coaching quickly. The heat bothered him a little during OTAs, and it wasn't nearly as hot and humid then as it will be in August. ...

A few other odds and ends are in that link (http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=236735).

This is my discussion of my expectations for Okoye. I think he is the sort of player that the Texans covet (football smart, good character), but physically, I worry some about him with the run. DTs usually get better as they age:

What are Your Expectations for Okoye? (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/06/01/what-are-your-expectations-for-amobi-okoye/)

The run defense is a key to the Texans D, because if the Texans can't stop the run consistently, they are not going to get teams in obvious passing downs.

Here's the link that has the Okoye video link in it, and a few other things:

Amobi Okoye and the 2007 Texans Draft Class (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/06/20/amobi-okoye-and-the-2007-texans-draft-class/)

TexansLucky13
07-12-2007, 10:29 PM
Anyone looking for immediate returns may be disappointed.

And this is how we separate the real and the not-so-real Texans fans.

BattleRedToro
07-12-2007, 11:02 PM
Here's various links with stuff that might be of interest re: Okoye:

Megan Manfull writes for SportingNews.com along with the Chronic. In her latest Texans review, she said:



A few other odds and ends are in that link (http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=236735).

This is my discussion of my expectations for Okoye. I think he is the sort of player that the Texans covet (football smart, good character), but physically, I worry some about him with the run. DTs usually get better as they age:

What are Your Expectations for Okoye? (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/06/01/what-are-your-expectations-for-amobi-okoye/)

The run defense is a key to the Texans D, because if the Texans can't stop the run consistently, they are not going to get teams in obvious passing downs.

Here's the link that has the Okoye video link in it, and a few other things:

Amobi Okoye and the 2007 Texans Draft Class (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/06/20/amobi-okoye-and-the-2007-texans-draft-class/)

And that is why I have been stressing the need for this team to acquire a true NT, but that doesn't seem to be important to the Texans.

Goldensilence
07-13-2007, 12:11 AM
I think it's rather important to keep in mind he won't start playing full-time this season. I really epxect him to be eased into the situation. We have nice depth at DT this year and that willl help his development i think.

With the first two picks the last year we've gone two of the hardest transition positions in the NFL and the ones who don't so often see real quick production. I'm not saying it doesn't happen because guys like Mark Anderson took off last year. Though he did have the benefit of a great bears defense around him. These two rookies the past two years haven't had that luxury and Mario had to be thrown to the fire with a foot injury none the less. I'll remind this Bruce Smith and Reggie White didn't have stellar starts to their careers but their busts are in Canton.

maddogmrb
07-13-2007, 07:38 AM
[QUOTE=Goldensilence;691391]I think it's rather important to keep in mind he won't start playing full-time this season. I really epxect him to be eased into the situation. We have nice depth at DT this year and that willl help his development i think.
QUOTE]


But, if we already have nice depth at DT, wouldn't it have made better sense to shore up one of the other dozen holes we have on the team such as OLB or CB or S with our #10 pick? :um:

DBCooper
07-13-2007, 08:57 AM
But, if we already have nice depth at DT, wouldn't it have made better sense to shore up one of the other dozen holes we have on the team such as OLB or CB or S with our #10 pick? :um:


He was the best player available when we picked.

HOU-TEX
07-13-2007, 09:04 AM
I share some of your concerns but I hope that they are short term problems (not that he has proven to have any problems yet). I think he is going to get pushed around quite a bit his rookie year and really struggle when run directly at....he will be more effective when the play is going the other way and in pursuit and in passing situations. Anyone looking for immediate returns may be disappointed.

Although you're more than likely correct. I believe he'll be just as good if not better than what we rotated through that Dline last year.:d:

With his intelligence, game experience will probably teach him more than anything he learns in TC.

Honoring Earl 34
07-13-2007, 09:10 AM
Rookie DT Amobi Okoye's biggest issue in training camp could simply be dealing with the heat. He just turned 20 years old, but his age is hardly holding him back. He fit instantly in with the team and is grasping the system and the coaching quickly. The heat bothered him a little during OTAs, and it wasn't nearly as hot and humid then as it will be in August. ...

Having lived here for 44 years , you don't adapt to the heat nearly as much as you prepare for the heat .

If Okoye , in OTAs was going all out and did'nt hydrate himself and keep on drinking , then yes he would have problems .

I think Okoye will do fine . He may not be all world at first but he will show flashes this year .

HOU-TEX
07-13-2007, 09:24 AM
Having lived here for 44 years , you don't adapt to the heat nearly as much as you prepare for the heat .

If Okoye , in OTAs was going all out and did'nt hydrate himself and keep on drinking , then yes he would have problems .

I think Okoye will do fine . He may not be all world at first but he will show flashes this year .

I think it has more to do with adapting to the humidity than just the heat. And yes it does need adapting to.:shades:

Vinny
07-13-2007, 10:01 AM
I share some of your concerns but I hope that they are short term problems (not that he has proven to have any problems yet). I think he is going to get pushed around quite a bit his rookie year and really struggle when run directly at....he will be more effective when the play is going the other way and in pursuit and in passing situations. Anyone looking for immediate returns may be disappointed.

Although you're more than likely correct. I believe he'll be just as good if not better than what we rotated through that Dline last year.:d: so you are saying he is going to be awful huh :texflag:

The Pencil Neck
07-13-2007, 10:30 AM
I think it has more to do with adapting to the humidity than just the heat. And yes it does need adapting to.:shades:

I grew up in Houston and my wife grew up in San Angelo. I've spent most of the past 20 years in places like Southern California and Arizona where it's... uh... dry. And sometimes very hot. To this day, my wife will be drenched in sweat telling me how godawful humid it is when it feels perfectly comfy to me.

So... yeah... I think you do adapt to the humidity.

HOU-TEX
07-13-2007, 11:00 AM
so you are saying he is going to be awful huh :texflag:

LOL. I wouldn't go that far, but the first few games might be a little rough for him. You never know though, he might turn out to be a prodigy at the NFL level as well. It's gunna be fun.:d:

I grew up in Houston and my wife grew up in San Angelo. I've spent most of the past 20 years in places like Southern California and Arizona where it's... uh... dry. And sometimes very hot. To this day, my wife will be drenched in sweat telling me how godawful humid it is when it feels perfectly comfy to me.

So... yeah... I think you do adapt to the humidity.

I've lived here my whole life as well and it's still miserable every summer. I'll be danged if I'd trade it for anything else though.

Yesterday after I got home from work it was hotter than the hinges of Hades. I walked out to the garage to work on my street car and it starts pouring rain. Houston, where the weather changes every 5 minutes.:cool:

Vinny
07-13-2007, 11:06 AM
LOL. I wouldn't go that far, but the first few games might be a little rough for him. You never know though, he might turn out to be a prodigy at the NFL level as well. It's gunna be fun.:d: Unlike some of our past team leaders Okoye seems to be more vocal and in the mold of DeMeco Ryans when it comes to demeanor, so I find that encouraging and something to be excited about. While it will be likely he has some adjustment period getting used to NFL caliber Guard play, he should flash some big plays here and there if he is as advertised....I'm still looking for Travis Johnson to flash something other than picking on TC scrubs.

Texans Horror
07-13-2007, 11:08 AM
Take it for what you will (Training Camp still hasn't started), but on the current Texans depth chart, Amobi is listed as the starting DT.

Vinny
07-13-2007, 11:14 AM
Take it for what you will (Training Camp still hasn't started), but on the current Texans depth chart, Amobi is listed as the starting DT.
That probably tells us more about Travis Johnson than it does Amobi Okoye.

Hardcore Texan
07-13-2007, 11:53 AM
I grew up in Houston and my wife grew up in San Angelo. I've spent most of the past 20 years in places like Southern California and Arizona where it's... uh... dry. And sometimes very hot. To this day, my wife will be drenched in sweat telling me how godawful humid it is when it feels perfectly comfy to me.

So... yeah... I think you do adapt to the humidity.

I don't think it is humidity so much as it is liquid air.

HOU-TEX
07-13-2007, 11:55 AM
I don't think it is humidity so much as it is liquid air.

LOL! If I shaved my head it'd reveal my gills. :spy:

Hardcore Texan
07-13-2007, 11:56 AM
That probably tells us more about Travis Johnson than it does Amobi Okoye.

That's are really good point......unfortunately, nothing like drafting first round depth, i keep hoping he improves.

Specnatz
07-13-2007, 12:00 PM
Unlike some of our past team leaders Okoye seems to be more vocal and in the mold of DeMeco Ryans when it comes to demeanor, so I find that encouraging and something to be excited about. While it will be likely he has some adjustment period getting used to NFL caliber Guard play, he should flash some big plays here and there if he is as advertised....I'm still looking for Travis Johnson to flash something other than picking on TC scrubs.

I hope you are not holding your breath while waiting? I think Maddox being listed next to Okoye maybe says even more about tj than it does with Okoye starting.

As someone who has stated that I think 9-7 season is most likly the case for the Texans, when it comes to high expectations on a rookie I am very excited to some sort of a line that can put pressure on a QB and stop the run to some freakin degree to help out the secondary who gets killed on big plays regularly.

When it comes to a rookie I was always thinking of improvement. what you see in week 1 to what you see the week after the bye week better be some fast improvements. If the same mistakes are repeated then there is a probalem. Is he holding or triping or taking bad angles to where the ball is, that sort of thing.

From everything that is said it sounds like his gap skills for rushing are better than his skills at run stoping. Just curious but does this happen because he takes his eye off the ball or does he just concentrate on the QB?

Vinny
07-13-2007, 12:06 PM
I hope you are not holding your breath while waiting? I think Maddox being listed next to Okoye maybe says even more about tj than it does with Okoye starting.
TJ and Okoye play the same position and just because they are both listed as "tackles" doesn't mean the positions are the same. They are both one gap tackles (3 technique...penetrators). Maddox is a two gap DT (more like a nose guard). We had an excellent thread in regard to this a month or so ago.

Specnatz
07-13-2007, 12:29 PM
TJ and Okoye play the same position and just because they are both listed as "tackles" doesn't mean the positions are the same. They are both one gap tackles (3 technique...penetrators). Maddox is a two gap DT (more like a nose guard). We had an excellent thread in regard to this a month or so ago.

I guess I just do not see him as that type of player, I do not think he has the speed to play that technique. Of course I am not as versed in the position as some.

nunusguy
07-13-2007, 12:49 PM
Whoever mentioned earlier in this thread that Okoye looked more like a DE than a DT may be closer to the reality of his "natural" NFL position than he realized.
I remember seeing him in the SB week of practice, including one-on-ones, before the game and I immediately thought of Dwight Freeney. He's built a lot like him, short and squat, and has that little spin tecnique that is Freeneys signature move. And he has a real quick first step. Very explosive and I only wish Mario had that kind of sudden start.
After a slow 40 at Indy (injured I think?), he knocked out a 4.8 something in his Pro Day, and that's not bad. Close to Marios 40 and another guy named Terril Suggs who was thought to be too slow by some to be an edge rusher.

The Pencil Neck
07-13-2007, 01:39 PM
i've lived in houston my whole life. and what i have to say about humidity is that humidity sucks. i can handle dry, plain ol' heat, that's easy. humidity makes it feel like you are constantly wearing another layer of clothes...maybe pencil neck is just more adept to living with humidity than others? maybe. maybe god hates houston and decided to make it as un****ingcomfortable as possible...

No, no, what I was saying that because you've lived in Houston with its humidity that when you go somewhere like Pennsylvania and people are whining about 30-40% humidity, you'll laugh at them. And that people who were raised with dry heat have no idea how bad wet heat is.

I hate high humidity. But my definition of what high humidity is (and I suspect YOUR definition as well) is different than people who grew up in deserts.

In Arizona, I was comfy and driving with the windows down to about 105 degrees. No way I do that in Houston. BUT, anything over 115 degrees sucks and I don't care how dry it is. (It got up to 127 degrees when we were in Phoenix.)

HOU-TEX
07-13-2007, 01:59 PM
No, no, what I was saying that because you've lived in Houston with its humidity that when you go somewhere like Pennsylvania and people are whining about 30-40% humidity, you'll laugh at them. And that people who were raised with dry heat have no idea how bad wet heat is.

I hate high humidity. But my definition of what high humidity is (and I suspect YOUR definition as well) is different than people who grew up in deserts.

In Arizona, I was comfy and driving with the windows down to about 105 degrees. No way I do that in Houston. BUT, anything over 115 degrees sucks and I don't care how dry it is. (It got up to 127 degrees when we were in Phoenix.)

On the Greek cruise we took a couple years ago one of our stops was Port Said, Egypt. We took a tourbus into Cairo to see the Pyramids, Sphinx, etc. Of course wearing pants is considerate to the Egyptians. So there I was sporting a golf shirt, Kakis and tennis shoes in 105-110 degree dry heat and I was quite comfortable.

That was until we did the camel ride. Good gravy, those are some nasty animals. I really wanted to pull a Conan on the one I rode.:)

badboy
07-13-2007, 03:22 PM
On the Greek cruise we took a couple years ago one of our stops was Port Said, Egypt. We took a tourbus into Cairo to see the Pyramids, Sphinx, etc. Of course wearing pants is considerate to the Egyptians. So there I was sporting a golf shirt, Kakis and tennis shoes in 105-110 degree dry heat and I was quite comfortable.

That was until we did the camel ride. Good gravy, those are some nasty animals. I really wanted to pull a Conan on the one I rode.:)Barbeque that camel, they taste just like chicken. The DT regardless of who lines up where, will do fine against the run especially with the new LB line up. I have little concerns that we can stop the run. It is stopping the pass, that concerns me. Colts? We only play them twice and beat them once last season. Maybe we can go 15-1 or 14-2 at worst?

Maddict5
07-13-2007, 04:35 PM
TJ and Okoye play the same position and just because they are both listed as "tackles" doesn't mean the positions are the same. They are both one gap tackles (3 technique...penetrators). Maddox is a two gap DT (more like a nose guard). We had an excellent thread in regard to this a month or so ago.

i have some recollection of kubiak saying sometime last yr that he wanted tj to play the 2 gap aswell when needed...

will travis line up opposite okoye in obvious passing situations??

disaacks3
07-13-2007, 05:09 PM
i have some recollection of kubiak saying sometime last yr that he wanted tj to play the 2 gap aswell when needed...

will travis line up opposite okoye in obvious passing situations?? Heck, I'd settle for seeing TJ actually "play". As of right now, TJ is an oversized, under-motivated DT who gets involved on less plays than your average punter.

Amobi is as raw as you can possibly get w/ 4 yrs. of College experience. The potential he has makes coaches salivate though. So far, he seems to be taking the instruction well and (barring injury) should be an absolute BEAST in the league in about 2-3 years.

There's no doubt in my mind (at this point) that we definitely got the BPA at the 10 spot, and possibly the steal of the draft. This kid just turned 20 and stood toe-to-toe with the best at the Senior Bowl...gives me chills just imagining how good he could end up being.:d:

maddogmrb
07-13-2007, 06:33 PM
Whoever mentioned earlier in this thread that Okoye looked more like a DE than a DT may be closer to the reality of his "natural" NFL position than he realized.
I remember seeing him in the SB week of practice, including one-on-ones, before the game and I immediately thought of Dwight Freeney. He's built a lot like him, short and squat, and has that little spin tecnique that is Freeneys signature move. And he has a real quick first step. Very explosive and I only wish Mario had that kind of sudden start.
After a slow 40 at Indy (injured I think?), he knocked out a 4.8 something in his Pro Day, and that's not bad. Close to Marios 40 and another guy named Terril Suggs who was thought to be too slow by some to be an edge rusher.

Good points. I think the team would be better served just to put him at DE and leave him there opposite Mario and let the 2 of them develop. With Ryans as an under sized MLB, we sure don't need an under sized DT in front of him, too. With both of them in the middle our run defense will be in big trouble. We need DT's who take up space and force the run outside. With Mario and Amobi, we could have an awesome pair of DE's in a couple of years.

The1ApplePie
07-13-2007, 07:08 PM
Its a shame we don't use the 3-4 anymore. I think Amobi and Mario would be great 3-4 DEs. I think both may be too big to be good edge rushers in the 4-3.

We still need a big fat *** to fill the middle, and it looks like TJ won't be that guy. Maybe we could trade Babin and TJ for a big fella.

Texanmike02
07-13-2007, 08:32 PM
Let me just say thanks for posting that video. I had never seen much video on Amobe before and wow. I know its not against pros.. but if he develops into that kind of player on the pro level we have definitely picked a winner... wow

Mike

nunusguy
07-14-2007, 08:50 AM
We still need a big fat *** to fill the middle, and it looks like TJ won't be that guy. Maybe we could trade Babin and TJ for a big fella.
You mean like Alan Branch ? OK maybe he was thought to be an underachiever, but we'll see how he does in AZ. But most admit his potential.
But I can really second-guess this pick just like last years with the same question: why not trade back and get an Xtra pick along with a player who satisfys more of a need than Okoye and has just as much chance of contributing this year ?
WRs Meachem & Gonzalez, FS Nelson, & OT Staley all were taken later in the first round and 2-gapper Branch was a second round pick and I see all of those guys filling more of a need position while we get another mid-round pick.
I think our Draft philosophy should be based more on quantity than it has in the past. We are not 1 or 2 or even a few but several if not many players away from consistantly competing with the better teams.

rickyb
07-14-2007, 09:31 AM
I think our Draft philosophy should be based more on quantity than it has in the past. We are not 1 or 2 or even a few but several if not many players away from consistantly competing with the better teams.

Lately, I have been thinking about what ifs. What if we had traded back, picked up Reggie Nelson and a 2nd (maybe Chris Houston or any other solid corner). But done is done.

Maybe next year's draft...

HJam72
07-14-2007, 09:54 AM
Nothing against Williams or Okoye, but I'm always in favor of trading down from the top 10 or 15, unless you need a QB or you are in a position to spend it on that top-tier RB--in which case, you might want to trade up for them.

I've read arguments stating that you get more for your money later in the first round and into the second--and those high draft picks and their salaries could be what holds some teams in the cellar year after year.