PDA

View Full Version : Bethel Johnson signed


MightyTExan
07-09-2007, 03:26 PM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/4953389.html

Bethel Johnson to a deal Monday.

Johnson, 5-foot-11 and 200 pounds, will add another kick returner to the Texans' roster as well as a speedy target for quarterback Matt Schaub.



Does this mean Mathis is a goner?

real
07-09-2007, 03:28 PM
Was just about to make this thread...

Don't know what it means for Mathis but it's definitely not a positive for him..

The1ApplePie
07-09-2007, 03:30 PM
Good to see some speed added to the WR Corps. Too bad we still have AJ and a bunch of 3rd WRs/Slot Guys and no real number 2.

Brando
07-09-2007, 03:30 PM
Hopefully he can make the team. I like the speed. Hey if it works out we will have Johnson&Johnson.:redface:

ArlingtonTexan
07-09-2007, 03:46 PM
Just throwing another body at the problem and hoping for something.

TexansLucky13
07-09-2007, 03:57 PM
Good to have another Aggie on the team. Naturally, I like the signing, so long as the price was right (which it was, I am sure).

TEXANS84
07-09-2007, 03:58 PM
Houston Texans, home away from home (Texas A & M)

badboy
07-09-2007, 05:12 PM
Mathis should not be cut before training camp unless a medical report rules him out. He should be treated like any other injured player especially one going to the pro bowl the last season he played (2 years ago).

Andrew6
07-09-2007, 05:16 PM
Just throwing another body at the problem and hoping for something.



::: SIGH ::: sadly that is all we ever do. CAN'T, WON'T spend the money on good young players. I just hope that we get some good out of our rookies this next year.

Kaiser Toro
07-09-2007, 05:17 PM
Mathis should not be cut before training camp unless a medical report rules him out. He should be treated like any other injured player especially one going to the pro bowl the last season he played (2 years ago).

Saving a roster spot for a Special Teamer who made the Pro Bowl two years ago, during his rookie year, is not a strong value proposition to keep him in my opinon. The more I chew on this, the more I would be behind his release should he be unable to perform at the same level as a KR, and as a viable WR.

Texans_Chick
07-09-2007, 05:25 PM
Saving a roster spot for a Special Teamer who made the Pro Bowl two years ago, during his rookie year, is not a strong value proposition to keep him in my opinon. The more I chew on this, the more I would be behind his release should he be unable to perform at the same level as a KR, and as a viable WR.

Kubiak has said that he isn't going to assume anyone whose been injured is coming back from that injury. There was some of that going on last year, and it bit them in the posterior.

So, he's making it hard to make the team by creating more competition in camp.

That is an obvious change from last year. What I want to know is what steps they are taking to reduce the numbers on IR. They said in the offseason they were going to look at that issue, but I never heard what things if any, they are doing about that.

Goldensilence
07-09-2007, 05:26 PM
Interesting signing. I know they wanted another veteran who has seen NFL action. I bet this rules out McCardell signing here now.

As interesting as i thought the 3rd RB battle would be WR might well end up being just as good. Davis is looking to regain form again. Walters has a slight edge from the little showcasing time he got last year. Mathis should be healthy enough to compete. Johnson adds some intrigue to the group now. Oh yeah we drafted Jacoby Jones who no doubt will make the roster one way or another. This could not bode well for a guy like David Anderson.

Anyone know if we'll carry 4 or 5 receivers on the roster?

RK and PR will be interesting too. If Mathis is healthy he should be in... I don't think we'd release him before TC. That'd just be stupid, if he's healthy, to deny him a shot at least. It won't take him long to find a home either after we release him. I just hope he stays out of our division if that comes true.

ArlingtonTexan
07-09-2007, 05:36 PM
::: SIGH ::: sadly that is all we ever do. CAN'T, WON'T spend the money on good young players. I just hope that we get some good out of our rookies this next year.

Let me be fair to the Texans. If you have limited funds (not discussing the why at the moment) there really is not another legitiamte way to improving your squad. Not predicting this for the Texans, but the 1st Patriots Superbowl winner had a ton of these no name signings where the staff there was better at placing people in the correct roles than other teams. If the 2006 regular season is any indication, the current administration seems to have good feel for doing similiar things with lower level signings.

Hagar
07-09-2007, 06:04 PM
Y'all don't seen to be too happy about this signing, but don't kid yourself, Bethel Johnson has some skills. Granted, being an Aggie, I've followed his career and have been disapointed so far. But, if he applies himself, he could easily make this team and be a solid contributer.

If nothing else, Mathis will have to look over his shoulder this Spring.

real
07-09-2007, 06:18 PM
I like the signing...

I think the guy has some skills and can make some plays for us. I also like the fact that he played a role for a superbowl winning team...Despite the over-stated factor of experience, I truly believe his experience will rub off on a couple of guys....He knows about being an underdog and winning...He knows about being on a team that knows how to consistently put up W's....He didn't have a great role on those Patriot teams, but he's atleast been around it enough to know what it takes, and what things to steer clear of...

Specnatz
07-09-2007, 06:21 PM
::: SIGH ::: sadly that is all we ever do. CAN'T, WON'T spend the money on good young players. I just hope that we get some good out of our rookies this next year.

Who should they have signed this past offseason? Oh yeah let me add that this is Smith's first full year with the team and there was not much cap room because so doofus over spent or players.

DBCooper
07-09-2007, 06:22 PM
Mathis should be worried.

If Bethel can be a viable KR/PR and have the ability to play WR, Mathis will be gone. Mathis needs to stay healthy and contribute as a wideout to make this team. Jacoby alone makes it hard on Mathis to keep his job, now there's 2.

I like Mathis and I hope he has been practicing his route running and recieving skills.

I like the added competition. Maybe this can make our herd of number 3's play hard and someone becomes a real number 2.

the wonger need food
07-09-2007, 06:27 PM
There's nothing to not like about this signing. Nothing was given up to get him and he's cheap. We definitely have the best competition at the WR spot in our short history.

I think we need to keep everything in perspective. Remember that we opened last season with Edell Sheperd and Derrick Lewis active at WR. And our kick returners were a mix between those 2 guys with Roc Alexander, Wali Lundy and Dexter Wynn. B. Johnson is a huge upgrade over all of those guys.

the wonger need food
07-09-2007, 06:34 PM
Who should they have signed this past offseason? Oh yeah let me add that this is Smith's first full year with the team and there was not much cap room because so doofus over spent or players.

Well... let's look at the top of the 2007 WR FA class...

Stallworth
Lelie
Stokely
Curtis
Bennett
Washington

We went after Lelie who ended up getting overpaid in SF. The other guys are average at best and were all overpaid by another team.

Texan_Bill
07-09-2007, 06:40 PM
Hard for me to post this (an Aggie thing), but I remember some of this baggage about Bethel Johnson from before:
Johnson served primarily a speed specialist for the Patriots. He was known for several long-range diving catches, as well as two kick returns for touchdowns. In 2004 & 2005, he won the Super Bowl with the New England Patriots

He was traded to the Saints on June 5, 2006 for defensive tackle Johnathan Sullivan, who was drafted sixth overall by the Saints in 2003. [2] Johnson was criticized in New England for his ego and his work ethic. And Saints coach Sean Payton questioned Johnson's "conditioning, his stamina and endurance" during the preseason. [3]

Johnson was cut from the Saints before the 2006 regular season began after injuring his knee in a preseason game and then was signed by the Minnesota Vikings on October 10th, 2006.[4]

On March 8, 2007 he signed a one year contract with the Philadelphia Eagles. He was released on June 5th after he failed a physical

Link:
Bethel_Johnson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethel_Johnson)

gwallaia
07-09-2007, 07:10 PM
Good to have another Aggie on the team.

I read that and got a slight case of the willies.

TexansSeminole
07-09-2007, 07:10 PM
Anyone know if we'll carry 4 or 5 receivers on the roster?

I'd say 5. Our returners are wide receivers so...it's always smart to have 4 fresh receivers; I think that 5th will be the return man.

I like this pick up. Bethel Johnson is a good pickup for $650,000. He is a big play guy when he does touch the ball. He has 2 career touchdowns on kick returns. Out of his 39 career NFL receptions 9 were for over 20 yards, 5 were for over 40 yards, and 4 were for touchdowns. Also...27 of those 39 were for first downs and he has a 15.5 career NFL YPR. He could be a weapon this year if we can get him comfortable.

I know I threw a bunch of stats at you...but these stats actually mean something.

P.S. We also picked up LB Zac Woodfin. link (http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/HOU/10250705).

Marcus
07-09-2007, 07:36 PM
Does this mean Mathis is a goner?

He'll be a goner if he pull's his "hammie" act in training camp. Now, we'll all find out just how badly he wants to make the team.

Overalls
07-09-2007, 07:52 PM
As has been well documented I am a Troll. Contray to the opinion of some I don't do it just to iratate people I also find links to stories with something other than a pre Texan slant. I found the link to what ESPN has to say about this signing on GoTitans.com

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2930807&campaign=rss&source=NFLHeadlines

Needless to say it is less glowing than the one from the Chronicle.

Johnson has been either traded or released by three teams in the past 13 months, and so his addition is a gamble by the Texans, who continue to seek help at wide receiver. But even before injuries cost him some of his once-blistering speed, Johnson never caught more than 16 passes in a season, so it is doubtful he will fill the Texans' search for a complementary wideout to star receiver Andre Johnson.

I wish the man well as I do EVERY WR on the roster and expect the best player to be on the team. However I don't see how spending 600,000 on an injured PR/KR is some great addition to the team. I would have rathered saved the money for someone else and went with Mathis and Jacoby Jones.

Texans_Chick
07-09-2007, 07:57 PM
He'll be a goner if he pull's his "hammie" act in training camp. Now, we'll all find out just how badly he wants to make the team.

Yeah, you can't make the club from the tub, but there is no reason to get a little ugly towards Mathis about it. Your comment suggests that there is something Mathis can do to fix himself, and well, sometimes injuries happen, and some you can't play through it because your position is all about speed. Kubiak has never even implied that Mathis is at fault for his hamstring stuff, and the scientific literature says that docs don't even know how to prevent hamstring problems.

If he's a Texan, well then, all I can do is hope for the best for him.

DBCooper
07-09-2007, 08:03 PM
I wish the man well as I do EVERY WR on the roster and expect the best player to be on the team. However I don't see how spending 600,000 on an injured PR/KR is some great addition to the team. I would have rathered saved the money for someone else and went with Mathis and Jacoby Jones.


Competition!

If he doesn't make the team the cap hit is minimal. And if he does make the team the cap hit is minimal.

aj.
07-09-2007, 08:20 PM
Houston Texans, home away from home (Texas A & M)

There's 2 players on the current roster from A&M.


There's also 2 players on the current roster from Boise St., Boston College, South Carolina, Kansas State, Mississippi, Miami, San Diego State, Tennessee, Virginia, Nebraska, Hampton, Alabama, Illiniois, and Virginia Tech...

...and there's 3 players on the current roster from Wisconsin, Washington, and Arizona State...

....and 4 players from Notre Dame ...

....and 5 from Colorado State...

What was your point again?

awtysst
07-09-2007, 08:29 PM
Interesting signing. I know they wanted another veteran who has seen NFL action. I bet this rules out McCardell signing here now.

As interesting as i thought the 3rd RB battle would be WR might well end up being just as good. Davis is looking to regain form again. Walters has a slight edge from the little showcasing time he got last year. Mathis should be healthy enough to compete. Johnson adds some intrigue to the group now. Oh yeah we drafted Jacoby Jones who no doubt will make the roster one way or another. This could not bode well for a guy like David Anderson.

Anyone know if we'll carry 4 or 5 receivers on the roster?

RK and PR will be interesting too. If Mathis is healthy he should be in... I don't think we'd release him before TC. That'd just be stupid, if he's healthy, to deny him a shot at least. It won't take him long to find a home either after we release him. I just hope he stays out of our division if that comes true.

We keep AJ and Jacoby for sure. Thats it. Walters, Adams, B. Johnson ,Williams,and Davis must earn it. That said I think ealry edge goes to Walters (year in system) and whomever of the rest can do more. IE if you can play KR/PR and WR you have a better shot than if you can just play WR

That being said we might be able to carry an extra WR, if we carry one FB(keep Lynch cut Cook) and/or keep two TE(Keep Owen D and Putz, cut Bruener)

awtysst
07-09-2007, 08:31 PM
There's 2 players on the current roster from A&M.


There's also 2 players on the current roster from Boise St., Boston College, South Carolina, Kansas State, Mississippi, Miami, San Diego State, Tennessee, Virginia, Nebraska, Hampton, Alabama, Illiniois, and Virginia Tech...

...and there's 3 players on the current roster from Wisconsin, Washington, and Arizona State...

....and 4 players from Notre Dame ...

....and 5 from Colorado State...

What was your point again?

Nice job AJ!!! rep your way!

Marcus
07-09-2007, 08:46 PM
Yeah, you can't make the club from the tub, but there is no reason to get a little ugly towards Mathis about it. Your comment suggests that there is something Mathis can do to fix himself, and well, sometimes injuries happen, and some you can't play through it because your position is all about speed. Kubiak has never even implied that Mathis is at fault for his hamstring stuff, and the scientific literature says that docs don't even know how to prevent hamstring problems.

I've listened to Kubiak talk about Mathis many times, Stephanie. And I take issue with your opinion that he's never implied, at least indirectly, that he's responsible for his hamstring problems. Now I'm not going to go as far as to say that I think he's been dogging it . . .

. . . oh wait a minute . . . after thinking it over, yeah, I think he's been dogging it. Just my opinion, of course. :)

TexansSeminole
07-09-2007, 08:52 PM
I've listened to Kubiak talk about Mathis many times, Stephanie. And I take issue with your opinion that he's never implied, at least indirectly, that he's responsible for his hamstring problems. Now I'm not going to go as far as to say that I think he's been dogging it . . .

. . . oh wait a minute . . . after thinking it over, yeah, I think he's been dogging it. Just my opinion, of course. :)

But for what? He came off a Pro-Bowl season why would he dog it? That's completely throwing away an opportunity at a starting role and a big raise.

Texans_Chick
07-09-2007, 09:55 PM
I've listened to Kubiak talk about Mathis many times, Stephanie. And I take issue with your opinion that he's never implied, at least indirectly, that he's responsible for his hamstring problems. Now I'm not going to go as far as to say that I think he's been dogging it . . .

. . . oh wait a minute . . . after thinking it over, yeah, I think he's been dogging it. Just my opinion, of course. :)

Link please. I've been looking and listening. The only thing I've read about Mathis' attitude about it is this (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=3370):

“Yes, it concerns me and I know it concerns him too because nobody is more frustrated than him, I can tell you that,” Kubiak said of the 2006 Pro Bowl selection.

“He was working and doing a heck of a job, but it’s got to be a concern because he’s having a hard time holding up over a period of time and being a successful pro in this business means you have to hold up so we have to figure it out.

“Hopefully it’s an isolated incident. He’s got four days here to get treatment and get ready to come out here next Tuesday and compete against a tough group that he’s having to compete against.”


Kubiak is truth telling, and the truth is that with Mathis it doesn't matter if he has been to the Pro Bowl, if he can't do camp, then he can't prove he can be a wide receiver. And Kubiak doesn't want a designated KR on the roster.

TEXANS84
07-09-2007, 10:06 PM
There's 2 players on the current roster from A&M.



What was your point again?

Kubiak/Sherman - A&M

Kaiser Toro
07-09-2007, 10:38 PM
Kubiak/Sherman - A&M

Johnny Holland you Aggie hater.

Hardcore Texan
07-09-2007, 10:55 PM
I don't know what to think about the signing, especially after learning more about his recent history and how much he has been cut. I guess we will find out in TC when the competetion gets going. Should be interesting.

nunusguy
07-09-2007, 11:32 PM
...and there's 3 players on the current roster from Wisconsin, Washington, and Arizona State...

....and 4 players from Notre Dame ...

....and 5 from Colorado State...


Not that well known football institution Notre Dame, but the other one, Colorado State, is apparently the most highly represented school on the Texans roster. Course its just a coincidense that that school gave one (or is it 2 ?) of Kubiaks kids athletic scholarships there.

Wolf
07-09-2007, 11:55 PM
I just think it is what Rick Smith said.. bringing more competition all around the team...

I know we want mathis to contribute as at least a #5 WR but just how many balls is a #5 WR going to get.

whether it is mathis or whoever, I'd rather have a pro bowl KR/PR and bring a body at #5 WR to maybe stretch the defense than a somewhat average #5 WR with an average KR/PR..

If he could pull Daute Hall stats at KR noone will care if he is at #5 WR due to the value he'd give this team in field position.

Here is the BJ and JM doing great things for the Texans :texflag:

Wolf
07-09-2007, 11:58 PM
Often-injured and much-traveled wide receiver Bethel Johnson, at one time considered one of the fastest players in the league, signed a free-agent contract with the Houston Texans on Monday, team officials announced.

Bethel Johnson

Johnson

Johnson has been either traded or released by three teams in the past 13 months, and so his addition is a gamble by the Texans, who continue to seek help at wide receiver. But even before injuries cost him some of his once-blistering speed, Johnson never caught more than 16 passes in a season, so it is doubtful he will fill the Texans' search for a complementary wideout to star receiver Andre Johnson.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2930807

here is to both players being injury free and give the Texans some boost in the offense and ST

aj.
07-09-2007, 11:59 PM
Kubiak/Sherman - A&M

Yeah, I kind of knew that.

Omg, there's two players from A&M on the team now. Forget about the 90 other guys on the roster from 64 different schools and all those Colorado State and Notre Dame guys, I smell a conspiracy...

aj.
07-10-2007, 12:08 AM
....

Goldensilence
07-10-2007, 12:42 AM
Yeah, I kind of knew that.

Omg, there's two players from A&M on the team now. Forget about the 90 other guys on the roster from 64 different schools and all those Colorado State and Notre Dame guys, I smell a conspiracy...

It's only a conspiracy until you realize they really are out to get you.:hacker:

Andrew6
07-10-2007, 12:54 AM
Calm down you little go getter. I'm not downing anyone just ready for football season to begin I guess to see what we have accomplished and hopefully our RB core this year will do alot better at the beginning than last year. Been a verrrry long offseason and I'm verrrry verrry ready for some Football... Whens TC start?

Who should they have signed this past offseason? Oh yeah let me add that this is Smith's first full year with the team and there was not much cap room because so doofus over spent or players.

barrett
07-10-2007, 05:57 AM
Calm down you little go getter. I'm not downing anyone just ready for football season to begin I guess to see what we have accomplished and hopefully our RB core this year will do alot better at the beginning than last year. Been a verrrry long offseason and I'm verrrry verrry ready for some Football... Whens TC start?

16 days!

Silver Oak
07-10-2007, 08:22 AM
Houston Texans, home away from home (Texas A & M)

coule be worse.

East Austin titans.

:fans:

HOU-TEX
07-10-2007, 10:19 AM
Man, I can't believe there aren't any SFA Lumberjacks on our roster. Lol:doot:

Texans_Chick
07-10-2007, 11:27 AM
Here's a analysis by Jerome Solomon of the Chronicle of the Texans WR situation:

"Texans receiving corps still rates below average" (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/4955025.html)

Pretty fair.

I think this might be a first. A Chronic offseason article that: 1. Is about the Texans, 2. Is an analysis of part of the team and not news or a regurg of a press release with maybe some quotes in it; 3. Not about the quarterback position.

Rare rare rare. I hope they do more articles like this.

beerlover
07-10-2007, 11:52 AM
does Jerome Mathis still really have a roster spot?

both Kubiak & Schaub like to go deep, will protection hold up?

Bethel was expendable to N.E. with the additions of Randy Moss, Wes Welker & Donte Stallworth.

I would like to see more focus on the secondary. I've had my fill of WR & Linebacker signings cause right now the Texans have a plethora of both.

Below average? given other needs this team has had I would say at least average nothing more, nothing less :cool:

Double Barrel
07-10-2007, 01:35 PM
I like the FO generating competition at positions, and with our limited economic wiggle room, this is about as good as it's going to get this year.

But, I'm not expecting anything from this signing. If he makes the cut, great. If not, nothing lost. His work ethic in the past is highly suspect, and very few players are able to change their approach and attitude to the game in such a short time. Not saying it's impossible, just very improbable. Dude has been given chance after chance, yet he seems to lack the focus and fire that propels his talent into a solid career.

These guys are professionals in an elite league, and if that's not enough to motivate them, then they lack the heart to dedicate themselves to the game, IMO. (And that goes for you, too, Mr. Travis Johnson!)

Porky
07-10-2007, 02:13 PM
does Jerome Mathis still really have a roster spot?

both Kubiak & Schaub like to go deep, will protection hold up?

Bethel was expendable to N.E. with the additions of Randy Moss, Wes Welker & Donte Stallworth.

I would like to see more focus on the secondary. I've had my fill of WR & Linebacker signings cause right now the Texans have a plethora of both.

Below average? given other needs this team has had I would say at least average nothing more, nothing less :cool:


Didn't they trade him to N.O. prior to the Randy Moss, Welker and Stallworth deals?

And kudos to DB for his comparison to Travis Johnson.

I like the signing just because more competition is not a bad thing. But, I'm not expecting this to really change our fortunes as a team this year. Time will tell.

False Start
07-10-2007, 02:17 PM
Hopefully this guy can add something to the team . When I heard we had signed a player , I was hoping it would have been a safety . Good signing in Bethel Johnson , we can use some help on punt/kickoff returns if Mathis cant come back at full strength .

Maddict5
07-10-2007, 08:35 PM
Bethel was expendable to N.E. with the additions of Randy Moss, Wes Welker & Donte Stallworth.


umm no.. he became expendable in the 2006 off-season with the additions of reche caldwell and jabar gaffney (and his injury):gun:

Wolf
07-10-2007, 08:48 PM
Texans | B. Johnson contract update
Tue, 10 Jul 2007 07:54:07 -0700

Updating previous items, Megan Manfull, of the Houston Chronicle, reports the Houston Texans signed free-agent WR Bethel Johnson (Eagles) to a one-year deal worth $650,000.

http://www.kffl.com/hotw/nfl

not shabby deal if he can stay healthy and make an impact

aj.
07-10-2007, 09:41 PM
It's basically a NFL minimum deal for someone of his tenure, probably with about 50k of bonuses built in. Next to zero risk for the Texans. If his leg is really healthy and plays well during preseason, he's a minimum cap hit guy on the 53. If he washes out before Week 1 it costs us only his bonus on the cap ~50k.

kiwitexansfan
07-11-2007, 12:51 AM
One more opinion on the signing.

Can't be a bad thing. It is minimum wage, one year deal for a guy that has proven to be effective at times in the league.

He has had ego issues apparently but getting dropped by 3 teams in 13 months has got to be humbling at some level surely??

Worst case he gets cust with a whole wad of other training camp fodder.

Best case, he makes the team, returns some kicks, catches the balls and opens up the field a bit with his speed.

TexansSeminole
07-11-2007, 07:31 AM
It's basically a NFL minimum deal for someone of his tenure, probably with about 50k of bonuses built in. Next to zero risk for the Texans. If his leg is really healthy and plays well during preseason, he's a minimum cap hit guy on the 53. If he washes out before Week 1 it costs us only his bonus on the cap ~50k.

That's true and that is good security. I think that he will be on this team come regular season because his experience in our inexperienced WR corps.

Overalls
07-11-2007, 07:36 AM
He did have 9 receptions last season with the Vikings. He lead the team in KRs and had 9 catches for 156 yards. Not great # of catches or yards, but that is a 17.3 yards per reception. My money is still on Jacoby Jones being a quality WR, but for the money this signing doesn't hurt.

TexansSeminole
07-11-2007, 07:53 AM
Watch the video of Bethel Johnson on Texans TV. He talks about how he is going to be in town until training camp focusing on what he calls a great opportunity for him to come back home to Texas.

threetoedpete
07-11-2007, 11:29 AM
does Jerome Mathis still really have a roster spot?

both Kubiak & Schaub like to go deep, will protection hold up?

Bethel was expendable to N.E. with the additions of Randy Moss, Wes Welker & Donte Stallworth.

I would like to see more focus on the secondary. I've had my fill of WR & Linebacker signings cause right now the Texans have a plethora of both.

Below average? given other needs this team has had I would say at least average nothing more, nothing less :cool:


I think so beerlover. I also think that Kubes and Smith are set up to put the petal to the metal if he falters in camp and leave Mathis with a buss ticket out of town. They got more return guys than trialways buss company.

And I've posted this befor... I don't know who they have taged for it but our FS for '07 is already on the roster. Someone likes someone an awefull lot. They got a plan but I'll be danged if I know what it is.

Just going through my lindy's...we got two premier players...A.J. and Sage. Mario makes it as RDE, #7. No one else cracks the top ten at any position. Not as a tandum. Not individualy, not as a unit. This is truly a no name team under everyones radar. And yes that Includes Demeco, ranked @ # 12 with the inside LBs. Tallent matters.

I think our number 2 reciever was drafted in the three slot this year. Now whether we drafted Tyron Calico or John Taylor only hard work and time will tell. We'll just have to be patient.
All this signing is... is a last chance. Bethel Johnson has been much too leaky a vessel to put any hope in. He was realtivly cheap, and he has speed. Return specialist #6. They aren't just sending Mathis a message. They're banging him over the head with a big old four by four. Now whether he gets it or cares is anyones guess.

I'm not worried about the o-line beerlover. XT has promised us a jump of six spots into the top fifteen. We'll see. Personaly, I believe we're one injury away from begining DC experiment II.

badboy
07-11-2007, 02:44 PM
Saving a roster spot for a Special Teamer who made the Pro Bowl two years ago, during his rookie year, is not a strong value proposition to keep him in my opinon. The more I chew on this, the more I would be behind his release should he be unable to perform at the same level as a KR, and as a viable WR.Keeping any player for a week or three into TC will not effect the final roster imo and I see no loss in keeping any possible weapon
aboard until the last possible second (refer to DDW). You and I are saying the same thing "if is unable to perform", he should be cut. That has not yet been determined.

badboy
07-11-2007, 03:36 PM
He did have 9 receptions last season with the Vikings. He lead the team in KRs and had 9 catches for 156 yards. Not great # of catches or yards, but that is a 17.3 yards per reception. My money is still on Jacoby Jones being a quality WR, but for the money this signing doesn't hurt.Other than AJ do we have any WR with over 20 receptions last season?

real
07-11-2007, 03:44 PM
I'm not worried about the o-line beerlover. XT has promised us a jump of six spots into the top fifteen. We'll see. Personaly, I believe we're one injury away from begining DC experiment II.

I definitely want better O-line play...I want guys up front who impose their wills on opposing defenses...No, we haven't been that way in the past, but I don't think we've been as bad as 'DC' led us to believe...

I think finally having a QB who understands that there's more to being a QB than having a strong arm and good straight line foot speed will do wonders for the perception of our OL...

I want to watch them a little more before I make bold statements about their talent level, but a decrease in awfullness because of who's behind center isn't that big of a stretch to me..

I am probably one of the few that thinks our line (as is) is potentially a top 13-17 line...

ccdude730
07-11-2007, 04:22 PM
Other than AJ do we have any WR with over 20 receptions last season?

Andre Johnson 103
Eric Moulds 57
Owen Daniels 34
Wali Lundy 33

there are 4 with 20+ receptions and only 2 are wideouts. we need the players in camp to push each other in the hope that someone steps up before the season starts. my money will be on walter

badboy
07-11-2007, 04:49 PM
Andre Johnson 103
Eric Moulds 57
Owen Daniels 34
Wali Lundy 33

there are 4 with 20+ receptions and only 2 are wideouts. we need the players in camp to push each other in the hope that someone steps up before the season starts. my money will be on walterUh.. Moulds no longer on team. Daniels is a tight end and Lundy a RB. Thanks for making my point.

ccdude730
07-11-2007, 05:13 PM
Uh.. Moulds no longer on team. Daniels is a tight end and Lundy a RB. Thanks for making my point.

i was just trying to answer your question

if you look at the colts, they only had 2 WR with 20+ receptions and the rest were tight ends and running backs. so what does that mean? im willing to concede that moulds was a mistake, but it just shows you can plug just about anyone in and still manage at least 20 receptions.

badboy
07-11-2007, 05:20 PM
i was just trying to answer your question

if you look at the colts, they only had 2 WR with 20+ receptions and the rest were tight ends and running backs. so what does that mean? im willing to concede that moulds was a mistake, but it just shows you can plug just about anyone in and still manage at least 20 receptions.Hey did not mean to come across as attacking you. I just am very concerned about WR and 20 receptions (Walters had 17 I think) does not encourage me. If our RBs and TEs stay healthy and Walters or Jacoby are reasonably successful (50 completions combined) we can have a good passing game. But that is saying a lot. We just do not on paper have anything if AJ goes down with injury.

Texans_Chick
07-11-2007, 05:43 PM
The best case scenario is that the continuing trouble with the #2 WR spot with the Texans was uh ocho viejo.

Even if that is your point of view, I'm not sure that you would want to bet the farm on that. Or that you can plug and play anyone at #2. (see e.g. last year's running back experiment).

Experience helps at WR, and it would be nice to have guys on the roster with a bit of a track record.

I'm a big believer in prayer, but I think your plan needs to be more than praying every day for the continuing health of Andre Johnson.

Runner
07-11-2007, 05:45 PM
... saying the same thing "if is unable to perform", he should be cut. That has not yet been determined.

I think the evidence for it "to be determined " is out there. The team just doesn't have to face it until final roster cuts. If Mathis lasts that long.

If he is hurt through most of camp, he'll probably be an earlier cut to give other guys the chance. I don't think the coaches would count on a miracle recovery the final week before the season starts, given the track record.

ccdude730
07-11-2007, 08:23 PM
Hey did not mean to come across as attacking you. I just am very concerned about WR and 20 receptions (Walters had 17 I think) does not encourage me.

i read through it pretty quickly and got that impression - apparently the wrong one, so i apologize for seeming defensive.

all is well in texan land

the wonger need food
07-11-2007, 08:36 PM
I'm a big believer in prayer, but I think your plan needs to be more than praying every day for the continuing health of Andre Johnson.

Then I guess the Patriots made a deal with the devil last year since their top two WR's would barely be #3 guys on just about any other NFL team.

Texans_Chick
07-11-2007, 09:15 PM
Then I guess the Patriots made a deal with the devil last year since their top two WR's would barely be #3 guys on just about any other NFL team.

Yeah, WR was said to be a problem for the Patriots last year, and ultimately, by Patriots' standards, it was a problem.

And look what they did this year. Even with a quarterback who is called one of the best two in the league, they basically signed every WR they could come across this year. A crazy number of WRs on their roster.


Inexperienced and/or injury prone receivers + inexperienced quarterback = making me nervous

Overalls
07-11-2007, 09:20 PM
I do think having Matt is going to make a big difference with our wide outs.

the wonger need food
07-11-2007, 09:26 PM
Yeah, WR was said to be a problem for the Patriots last year, and ultimately, by Patriots' standards, it was a problem.

And look what they did this year. Even with a quarterback who is called one of the best two in the league, they basically signed every WR they could come across this year. A crazy number of WRs on their roster.


Inexperienced and/or injury prone receivers + inexperienced quarterback = making me nervous


Yeah, different standards for different folks, I guess. It must be nice to have a team that makes it to the Conference Championship with the problems that they had.


Honestly though, I'm not worried about WR. I think that Daniels, Putzier and Green will warrant enough coverage attention to take the pressure off of AJ. Yes, he will still be double-covered quite a bit, but that would be the case even with a more skilled #2. I mean, Jabar friggin' Gaffney caught 55 balls for 31 first downs in 2005 with one of (if not) the worst QB's in the league throwing to him.

TexansSeminole
07-11-2007, 09:48 PM
I think that Daniels, Putzier and Green will warrant enough coverage attention to take the pressure off of AJ.

Will we need atleast some legit production from WR2-4 in order to be a team that consistantly scores.

I mean, Jabar friggin' Gaffney caught 55 balls for 31 first downs in 2005 with one of (if not) the worst QB's in the league throwing to him.

That is true. We have better receivers than Jabar Gaffney after AJ this year. But you know what, Gaffney might not turn out to be a bad pro.

Runner
07-11-2007, 10:18 PM
That is true. We have better receivers than Jabar Gaffney after AJ this year.

I think that remains to be proven. For instance:

I mean, Jabar friggin' Gaffney caught 55 balls for 31 first downs in 2005 with one of (if not) the worst QB's in the league throwing to him.

But you know what, Gaffney might not turn out to be a bad pro.

GoPats
07-12-2007, 10:54 AM
Don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but this guy is a bonafide NFL bust. He was a good returner but something happened (multiple injuries?) and those skills seemed to erode. And he's never been worth a roster spot as a WR. Combine that with his extensive injury history and his inability to run clean routes, and...

Well, you get the idea. I don't mean to crash the party but I wouldn't get my expectations up too high for this dude.

Interesting in that the Johnson/Sullivan trade resulted in a high 2nd rounder (Johnson) and a top-10 pick (Sullivan) getting cut from their new teams before the end of September. It was like "bust swap."

TexansSeminole
07-12-2007, 07:08 PM
Well, you get the idea. I don't mean to crash the party but I wouldn't get my expectations up too high for this dude.

I tell you what I expect more from him than Andre Davis, and I expect more from him than I from Jacoby (atleast BJ has been there before).

Specnatz
07-12-2007, 07:50 PM
Don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but this guy is a bonafide NFL bust. He was a good returner but something happened (multiple injuries?) and those skills seemed to erode. And he's never been worth a roster spot as a WR. Combine that with his extensive injury history and his inability to run clean routes, and...

Well, you get the idea. I don't mean to crash the party but I wouldn't get my expectations up too high for this dude.

Interesting in that the Johnson/Sullivan trade resulted in a high 2nd rounder (Johnson) and a top-10 pick (Sullivan) getting cut from their new teams before the end of September. It was like "bust swap."


That is what training camp is for. Heck I was only hoping for someone who could compete in a kr/pr position. I did not think of him as a wr. Look at the Pats they have 27 wr coming into camp this season.