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TexanSam
07-02-2007, 05:45 PM
By Sports Illustrated. It's just one guy's opinion though. Not a bad one either

Like Snyder, McNair is an aggressive, personally invested owner who desperately wants to field a winning team. Unlike the Redskins' boss, McNair hasn't even come close to doing so.

Since the Texans joined the NFL in '02, there have been a lot of dubious decisions on key matters, from the stubborn insistence that David Carr was a franchise quarterback to the selection of Mario Williams over Reggie Bush and hometown hero Vince Young in the '06 draft. McNair, at the very least, deserves some blame for hiring the people who made those decisions.

That said, he has established a highly valued franchise in a market the NFL had abandoned. He also worked exceptionally hard on last year's revenue-sharing plan. And, on a self-serving note, McNair's may be the most media-friendly organization in the league.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/michael_silver/06/27/ownerrankings/2.html

DBCooper
07-02-2007, 05:53 PM
#7 is pretty good for McNair.

Seeing "The Dan" and Jerry Jones that high makes me shudder. LOL

YellerLotYeller
07-02-2007, 06:14 PM
I'll take number 7 all day long.

I think Pud is way too high at #18.

Specnatz
07-02-2007, 10:12 PM
"Like Snyder, McNair is an aggressive, personally invested owner who desperately wants to field a winning team. Unlike the Redskins' boss, McNair hasn't even come close to doing so."

To come close to a winning team don't you have to do it more than one season in a row?

Texans Horror
07-03-2007, 08:56 AM
McNair is willing to spend whatever it takes to get a winning franchise. He has not been encumbered by on-the-field talent so much as cut down by coaching and front office misfires.

nunusguy
07-03-2007, 09:44 AM
"And, on a self-serving note, McNair's may be the most media-friendly organization in the league."
*************************************
I find that to be a rather dubious stement given that the Texans don't stand in good stead with ESPN, easily the most prominent member of the sports media establishment/industry. And then there's McNairs apparent indifference about concerns of the hometown media given some of his recent personnel decisions.

Texans_Chick
07-03-2007, 10:52 AM
"And, on a self-serving note, McNair's may be the most media-friendly organization in the league."
*************************************
I find that to be a rather dubious stement given that the Texans don't stand in good stead with ESPN, easily the most prominent member of the sports media establishment/industry. And then there's McNairs apparent indifference about concerns of the hometown media given some of his recent personnel decisions.

IIRC, they've won the award for the best media staff in the league twice.

Just because you have an open, helpful staff, doesn't mean media folks will write all happy sunshine about your team. A helpful staff also means you aren't going to make your football decisions based on what Richard Justice wants.

Personally, I think he is the #1 bestest owner because he was able to broker football back to Houston where it rightfully, and naturally belongs. The Texans don't always make the right decisions, but they try and they aren't afraid to spend money, and well, that means something.

Also, making sure we could have tailgating really has made a difference in creating more of a Texans community.

At the end of the day, if given a choice between a meddling owner v. one who let's the football guys make the decisions, I'm gonna pick the non-meddling owner who gives the football guys whatever they want. Kubiak has repeatedly said that McNair makes sure that they have everything they need. Of course, this approach puts a premium on the decision making of your HC and GM, but that gives me more comfort than the Jerry Jones/Dan Snyder style owners.

Vinny
07-03-2007, 10:55 AM
"And, on a self-serving note, McNair's may be the most media-friendly organization in the league."
*************************************
I find that to be a rather dubious stement given that the Texans don't stand in good stead with ESPN, easily the most prominent member of the sports media establishment/industry. And then there's McNairs apparent indifference about concerns of the hometown media given some of his recent personnel decisions.

ESPN is typical ham-handed media....if you are one of the worst teams, they joke about you and pan you openly without much homework...it happens to all the teams that don't win since on a National level we have little to no interest. If we want happy-faced ESPN exposure we just need to start winning and stop picking in the top 10 of the draft as a yearly ritual.

Second Honeymoon
07-03-2007, 11:06 AM
McNair at #7 is a joke. This is the guy who resigned Carr after a 2-14 season so he could pass on VY. That wasn't Kubiak's call. Sticking with Carr was part and parcel of getting the Texans job. Everyone knows that. Even Dan Reeves told McNair to draft VY when Reeves was brought in as a consultant. McNair didn't listen and stuck with that loser Carr and that is why we are currently a running joke around the league. I will give McNair some credit for admitting that it was a stupid move and getting rid of the Carrbage a year after his titanic mistake. Most millionaires much less billionaires dont like to admit when they were wrong, and he at least admitted that he screwed up....I just don't think that means we should forget about what a dumbarse he was.

McNair should be around #15 or so and Snyder should be near the bottom. Kraft should be #1 with Jones a close #2. Say what you want about Jerry but he has delivered 3 trophies to the trophy case and has managed to build the greatest sporting venue in the history of mankind. that has got to be worht something.

Texans_Chick
07-03-2007, 11:17 AM
McNair at #7 is a joke. This is the guy who resigned Carr after a 2-14 season so he could pass on VY. That wasn't Kubiak's call. Sticking with Carr was part and parcel of getting the Texans job. Everyone knows that. Even Dan Reeves told McNair to draft VY when Reeves was brought in as a consultant. McNair didn't listen and stuck with that loser Carr and that is why we are currently a running joke around the league. I will give McNair some credit for admitting that it was a stupid move and getting rid of the Carrbage a year after his titanic mistake. Most millionaires much less billionaires dont like to admit when they were wrong, and he at least admitted that he screwed up....I just don't think that means we should forget about what a dumbarse he was.

McNair should be around #15 or so and Snyder should be near the bottom. Kraft should be #1 with Jones a close #2. Say what you want about Jerry but he has delivered 3 trophies to the trophy case and has managed to build the greatest sporting venue in the history of mankind. that has got to be worht something.


Just because you say these things, doesn't make them true.

Reeves was not consulted on who to draft. He did advise that Carr was not the problem. Check out for example this link: Dan Reeves: Futher Explains His View on Vince Young, Reggie Bush and Mario Williams (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/01/17/dan-reeves-futher-explains-his-view-on-vince-young-reggie-bush/)

Casserly was very anti-VY, and still is. Remember his top 10 list of QBs with less than 40 starts. See who is missing?

10 Alex Smith
9 Jason Campbell
8 Matt Leinert
7 Rex Grossman
6 Tony Romo
5 Bryan Leftwich
4 Big Ben
3 Eli Manning
2 Philip Rivers
1 Carson Palmer

If Reeves comes in and says no problem with Carr, and Casserly is saying the same thing, why should Bob McNair think any differently?

Vinny
07-03-2007, 11:19 AM
At the end of the day, if given a choice between a meddling owner v. one who let's the football guys make the decisions, I'm gonna pick the non-meddling owner who gives the football guys whatever they want. Kubiak has repeatedly said that McNair makes sure that they have everything they need. Of course, this approach puts a premium on the decision making of your HC and GM, but that gives me more comfort than the Jerry Jones/Dan Snyder style owners.

I don't know how "non-meddling" the owner is when we pretty much go down in flames based on his unnatural love of David Carr and pretty much picking a coach around this really bad decision (he picked the best coach for David moreso than the best coach for the team). He also was so dissapointed in DC's development he hired a consultant to justify his pick...only to have Dan Reeves tell him to draft VY...we were going to sign and draft Bush right up to the last second (Mario came into the picture at the last min) but he got scared on character issues at the last second....seems like he is more meddling than his PR spin portrays.

Texans_Chick
07-03-2007, 11:35 AM
I don't know how "non-meddling" the owner is when we pretty much go down in flames based on his unnatural love of David Carr and pretty much picking a coach around this really bad decision (he picked the best coach for David moreso than the best coach for the team). He also was so dissapointed in DC's development he hired a consultant to justify his pick...only to have Dan Reeves tell him to draft VY...we were going to sign and draft Bush right up to the last second (Mario came into the picture at the last min) but he got scared on character issues at the last second....seems like he is more meddling than his PR spin portrays.

Dan Reeves did not tell him to draft VY. From what it appears from Dan Reeves' own quotes he wasn't consulted with that.

I think he was so disappointed in the information he got from Charlie Casserly, that he hired a consultant. I believe it was the Phillip Buchanon thing that really drove him over the edge. He dumped Charlie in the grease in the newspaper about it, and Reeves was hired shortly thereafter. It is the first (only) time I've ever seen McNair publicly undermine his GM.

Personally, I think that a lot of people in the same situation would have picked Kubiak as coach of the Texans because there ain't too many coaches in the league that would pick head coach of the Texans as their dream job. He wanted it.

As it relates to the character issue, Bob McNair is on a macro level very interested in having high character guys playing for his team. It's part of the Texans mission statement. It is easy for someone to say that, it's another thing to have a team act on that. (Yes, we want high character unless a guy runs in the 4.2s). Personally, I think that had Bush actually shown more interest in being a Texan, he would be. All that, being first pick in the draft is a dream to me, boy it would be nice being a NY Jet for the marketing talk rubbed a lot of people the wrong way.

Kaiser Toro
07-03-2007, 11:43 AM
McNair at #7 is a joke. This is the guy who resigned Carr after a 2-14 season so he could pass on VY. That wasn't Kubiak's call. Sticking with Carr was part and parcel of getting the Texans job. Everyone knows that. Even Dan Reeves told McNair to draft VY when Reeves was brought in as a consultant. McNair didn't listen and stuck with that loser Carr and that is why we are currently a running joke around the league.

Kubiak's call would have been Bush according to my source shortly after the draft. If it sounds, smells and tastes like a VY rant, it must be a chicken. :)

Texans_Chick
07-03-2007, 11:51 AM
Kubiak's call would have been Bush according to my source shortly after the draft. If it sounds, smells and tastes like a VY rant, it must be a chicken. :)

Other rumory things out there suggest that Bush's visit with the Texans was double plus non-good. It never came out exactly why it wasn't good, but the rumory stuff was that this was kept quiet in the hopes that they could still get a trade for him.

The1ApplePie
07-03-2007, 11:58 AM
I never agreed with the Kubes thing (I would have wanted Whisenhunt or Martz). There is a reason Kubes never smelled an HC job until he came to us.

He had nothing to do with putting the ZB system together, which is apparently his big selling point. Shanahan did a lot of the playcalling as well.

So, Kubes big thing was taking credit for Elway's career.:gun:

Kaiser Toro
07-03-2007, 12:03 PM
I never agreed with the Kubes thing (I would have wanted Whisenhunt or Martz). There is a reason Kubes never smelled an HC job until he came to us.

He had nothing to do with putting the ZB system together, which is apparently his big selling point. Shanahan did a lot of the playcalling as well.

So, Kubes big thing was taking credit for Elway's career.:gun:

From Kubiak's starting point in the 2006 season I would say he is tracking in the right direction. 300% year over year improvment in the win column, finding players to plug and play, signing reputable free agents, bringing on coaches that want to be here and scrubbing the left over talent from the past regime are a few reasons why I am still digging this crazy train we call the Texans.

Texan_Bill
07-03-2007, 12:05 PM
Geeeeeez..........

McNair - a lousy owner with his unnatural love for DC.
Kubiak - a lousy pick as a coach. Never sniffed a HC position before this one.

Blah, blah, blah...

ALL crap!!!

Move to Seatle and become a statistic.

Vinny
07-03-2007, 12:11 PM
Geeeeeez..........

McNair - a lousy owner with his unnatural love for DC.
Kubiak - a lousy pick as a coach. Never sniffed a HC position before this one.

Blah, blah, blah...

ALL crap!!!

Move to Seatle and become a statistic.

I never called McNair a "lousy owner". I just stated that he is more meddlesome than he is portrayed to be.

Specnatz
07-03-2007, 12:13 PM
I never agreed with the Kubes thing (I would have wanted Whisenhunt or Martz). There is a reason Kubes never smelled an HC job until he came to us.

He had nothing to do with putting the ZB system together, which is apparently his big selling point. Shanahan did a lot of the playcalling as well.

So, Kubes big thing was taking credit for Elway's career.:gun:

Actually the last few years in Denver Shanahan let Kubiak take over the offense. So as he may not have designed it, does not mean he was not a part of it.

The designer of the WCO was Bill Walsh but look how many coaches came from that tree ... Andy Reid, George Sceiferdt (sp), Mike Holmgren and Steve Marriuchi. That is only a few,

Second Honeymoon
07-03-2007, 12:22 PM
Dan Reeves did not tell him to draft VY. From what it appears from Dan Reeves' own quotes he wasn't consulted with that.

I think he was so disappointed in the information he got from Charlie Casserly, that he hired a consultant. I believe it was the Phillip Buchanon thing that really drove him over the edge. He dumped Charlie in the grease in the newspaper about it, and Reeves was hired shortly thereafter. It is the first (only) time I've ever seen McNair publicly undermine his GM.

Personally, I think that a lot of people in the same situation would have picked Kubiak as coach of the Texans because there ain't too many coaches in the league that would pick head coach of the Texans as their dream job. He wanted it.

As it relates to the character issue, Bob McNair is on a macro level very interested in having high character guys playing for his team. It's part of the Texans mission statement. It is easy for someone to say that, it's another thing to have a team act on that. (Yes, we want high character unless a guy runs in the 4.2s). Personally, I think that had Bush actually shown more interest in being a Texan, he would be. All that, being first pick in the draft is a dream to me, boy it would be nice being a NY Jet for the marketing talk rubbed a lot of people the wrong way.

that smells like spin to me. i read Reeves quote that he told McNair that he should draft VY but that he didnt say that McNair needed to get rid of Carr. Seems like you have it the other way around. However you spell it, Reeves was right about VY and wrong about Carr and Bob McNair was wrong about both.

and if McNair isn't picking RB because of character issues, that is just laughable. he won the freaking Heisman for crying out loud. yeah, he took some money but that goes on everywhere and is not unique to RB. his problem was that he lied about it to Bob. All he had to tell Bob was 'my parents probably took advantage of my college status and used it to improve their situation. I am sorry Bob but I won't let you down'.....instead he allegedly lied to his face in a direct question..it was High Stakes Poker and McNair called RB's and more importantly, his agent's bluff that Friday Afternoon.

stephanie, i am not a blogger or a texans insider but over 3 years ago I was on this board stating that Carr's work ethic was poor and that he was among the first to leave the complex and did not work with his teammates in the offseason or outside of team organized activities. I stated that he was notoriously lacking in his film study. I also stated that he wasn't 'one of the guys' and didnt hang out with his teammates outside of team organized activities and charities. I stated that Al Saunders brought a PowerPoint presentation to his Texans job interview that showed all the problems Carr has with his release point and with his reading of the defense/knowledge of his position and that was a huge reason he was not considered for the job even though he was probably the most coveted HC candidate that offseason. I wrote that a lot of the Offensive Lineman were kinda offended that Carr bought them paint ball guns after '04 and who wouldn't be offended by that? I was called a moron, a carr hater, and just about everything in the book. I knew what I knew and I was eventually proven correct. The sheeple (including McNair) continued to hitch their wagon to that loser. I had my sources but I ain't outing a friend who does have inside knowledge. (fyi - he isn't a member of the Texans but does deal with multiple Texans on a day-to-day basis when they are at the facility/homegame and is close with many of them...lets just say that he lends them an ear and has heard some hardcore rants)

so why am I not surprised when someone else says that I am wrong or that I don't know what I am talking about? Bottom line is that McNair hired Kubiak to coach Carr up. Reeves told McNair to draft VY but that Carr didn't need to be fired. McNair didn't heed his device and passed on Bush because RB did some unethical stuff in college and wasn't forthcoming with the truth and wasn't going to sign before the draft. Mario was more willing to sign before the draft and in their infinite wisdom was chosen instead of Bush, Ferguson, or VY.

i love your blog but stop trying to change the facts in order to put Bob in a better light. Bob screwed up. Period. End of story. At least he didn't wait another 5 years to admit it and turned the page this offseason. I give him a lot of credit for that all the time.

for the record, I think we have a good chance this season at improvement. having the youngest starters in the league is fine in my book and Smith seems to have things going in the right direction. no more overpaying for players and no more wtf?!?! draft picks. I think our roster is quite respectable especially when you consider how much dead capspace we have courtesy of Casserley. I love my Texans. GO TEXANS!

Second Honeymoon
07-03-2007, 12:25 PM
Other rumory things out there suggest that Bush's visit with the Texans was double plus non-good. It never came out exactly why it wasn't good, but the rumory stuff was that this was kept quiet in the hopes that they could still get a trade for him.

he was unwilling to sign before the draft was one problem with his visit. the other was that he lied to Bob's face about the house from the USC booster. he also didn't help himself when he had earlier in that week publically spoke of wishing he could go to the Jets for non-football reasons to Rich Eisen on NFLN. another incident I am less clear on and I don't remember the exact quote but he kinda badmouthed the Texans current state (which wasnt too much of a reach coming off of a 2-14 season but still not the best move by someone who wanted to be drafted by the Texans). It seemed that RB was going to use the Texan's lack of success as a bargaining chip in negotiations. I think this turned McNair off and I can't blame him but at the end of the day you gotta get the BPA....maybe they honestly thought mario was BPA but so far they would be totally wrong

Silver Oak
07-03-2007, 12:29 PM
McNair at #7 is a joke. This is the guy who resigned Carr after a 2-14 season so he could pass on VY. That wasn't Kubiak's call. Sticking with Carr was part and parcel of getting the Texans job. Everyone knows that. Even Dan Reeves told McNair to draft VY when Reeves was brought in as a consultant. McNair didn't listen and stuck with that loser Carr and that is why we are currently a running joke around the league. I will give McNair some credit for admitting that it was a stupid move and getting rid of the Carrbage a year after his titanic mistake. Most millionaires much less billionaires dont like to admit when they were wrong, and he at least admitted that he screwed up....I just don't think that means we should forget about what a dumbarse he was.

McNair should be around #15 or so and Snyder should be near the bottom. Kraft should be #1 with Jones a close #2. Say what you want about Jerry but he has delivered 3 trophies to the trophy case and has managed to build the greatest sporting venue in the history of mankind. that has got to be worht something.

I believe Mr. McNair admitted to his mistake. Now it's time to get over that and let's all move on.

jerek
07-03-2007, 12:40 PM
Just because you say these things, doesn't make them true.

Reeves was not consulted on who to draft. He did advise that Carr was not the problem. Check out for example this link: Dan Reeves: Futher Explains His View on Vince Young, Reggie Bush and Mario Williams (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/01/17/dan-reeves-futher-explains-his-view-on-vince-young-reggie-bush/)

Casserly was very anti-VY, and still is. Remember his top 10 list of QBs with less than 40 starts. See who is missing?

10 Alex Smith
9 Jason Campbell
8 Matt Leinert
7 Rex Grossman
6 Tony Romo
5 Bryan Leftwich
4 Big Ben
3 Eli Manning
2 Philip Rivers
1 Carson Palmer

If Reeves comes in and says no problem with Carr, and Casserly is saying the same thing, why should Bob McNair think any differently?

Stuff your facts--they're not welcome here :)

Doesn't help that I and even others have publicly stated that we know people who worked with and in some cases WERE a part of the draft decision--it was a football decision made by the staff who were paid to make these decisions and it had nothing to do with McNair saying Carr or else.

But ... some fans just won't take no for an answer.

Texan_Bill
07-03-2007, 12:41 PM
I never called McNair a "lousy owner". I just stated that he is more meddlesome than he is portrayed to be.

I never called out any one poster. It's the vibe of the thread.

Texan_Bill
07-03-2007, 12:44 PM
Casserly was very anti-VY, and still is. Remember his top 10 list of QBs with less than 40 starts. See who is missing?

10 Alex Smith
9 Jason Campbell
8 Matt Leinert
7 Rex Grossman
6 Tony Romo
5 Bryan Leftwich
4 Big Ben
3 Eli Manning
2 Philip Rivers
1 Carson Palmer


Matt Schaub??!?!?

Double Barrel
07-03-2007, 01:00 PM
Personally, I think he is the #1 bestest owner because he was able to broker football back to Houston where it rightfully, and naturally belongs. The Texans don't always make the right decisions, but they try and they aren't afraid to spend money, and well, that means something.

Also, making sure we could have tailgating really has made a difference in creating more of a Texans community.

Here, here!! I agree with you 100%!! :fans: :texflag: [/homer]

I never agreed with the Kubes thing (I would have wanted Whisenhunt or Martz). There is a reason Kubes never smelled an HC job until he came to us.

Not true. It has been reported that he was offered quite a few head coaching jobs over the years, but turned them all down waiting for the right situation. (Matter-of-fact, the same week Kubiak interviewed for the Texans job, he was also interviewed by the Lions (http://www.texansrock.com/Gary-Kubiak-the-Front-Runner-For-Head-Coaching-Position).)

He had nothing to do with putting the ZB system together, which is apparently his big selling point. Shanahan did a lot of the playcalling as well.

Actually the last few years in Denver Shanahan let Kubiak take over the offense. So as he may not have designed it, does not mean he was not a part of it.

Kubiak called the offensive plays during the Broncos' Super Bowl seasons.

Straight from the horse's mouth - see following:

Early in the week, Spurrier resorted to asking advice from another head coach, Denver Broncosí Mike Shanahan. Spurrier, portrayed by many as arrogant when it comes to his offense, wanted to know how Shanahan handled play-calling duties with Broncosí offensive coordinator Gary Kubiak.

When Shanahan told Spurrier that the Broncos immediately won two Super Bowls when Kubiak took over calling plays, the second-year Redskinsí coach didnít need any more convincing.

Source (http://www.winchesterstar.com:80/TheWinchesterStar/031111/Sports_coles.asp)

Second Honeymoon
07-03-2007, 01:08 PM
Also, making sure we could have tailgating really has made a difference in creating more of a Texans community.

allowing tailgating is still the best move McNair ever made. i do think allowing tailgating was part of the stadium deal though but irregardless it was a huge change from Oilers pregame rituals. I still remember the AFC Divisional Playoff game v. the Chiefs having to hammer Budweiser tallboys in the backseat of my friends Chevelle before the game. Cops came and broke up our party and we had to do the rest of our 'pregame' at the Holiday Inn all the way across the parking lot and that was like 90% Chiefs fans at the hotel bar and the beers were $4 (which was highway robbery back then). It got ugly and Montana made it uglier on the way home. Montana to Cash FTL.

now as Texans fans, we can kick back, listen to some tunes or pregame, and get to meet some of our fellow fans...who knows maybe even someone from the texanstalk.com community.

Vinny
07-03-2007, 01:19 PM
I don't know how "non-meddling" the owner is when we pretty much go down in flames based on his unnatural love of David Carr and pretty much picking a coach around this really bad decision (he picked the best coach for David moreso than the best coach for the team). He also was so dissapointed in DC's development he hired a consultant to justify his pick...only to have Dan Reeves tell him to draft VY...we were going to sign and draft Bush right up to the last second (Mario came into the picture at the last min) but he got scared on character issues at the last second....seems like he is more meddling than his PR spin portrays.Geeeeeez..........

McNair - a lousy owner with his unnatural love for DC.
Kubiak - a lousy pick as a coach. Never sniffed a HC position before this one.

Blah, blah, blah...

ALL crap!!!

Move to Seatle and become a statistic.I never called McNair a "lousy owner". I just stated that he is more meddlesome than he is portrayed to be.I never called out any one poster. It's the vibe of the thread.I hear you and you are right, but you used my words (unnatural love for DC) and added a translation...I just wanted to be clear that I never said that.

For the record, I don't think that "meddlesome" is that bad a trait as long as you use good sense in your decisions. I think that McNair overstepped his good sense when he tried to force a few square pegs in to some round holes before he gathered enough NFL experience when it comes to dealing with talent and the transient worth of the players who have short careers and small windows of prime. So basically, I consider him one of the leagues best owners...but he isn't above some honest non-homer critique from his fan base. I don't pretend to think I could have done a better job...but its a mb and I spew my thoughts...wrong or right.

the wonger need food
07-03-2007, 01:27 PM
McNair was/is a rookie owner. Did we really expect a Super Bowl in the first 5 years? The good news is that he's learning from his mistakes, unlike some other owners who don't and continue having losing seasons (Bill Ford, Bill Bidwill, Al Davis, Randy Lerner).

cuppacoffee
07-03-2007, 01:35 PM
McNair at #7 is a joke. This is the guy who resigned Carr after a 2-14 season so he could pass on VY. That wasn't Kubiak's call. Sticking with Carr was part and parcel of getting the Texans job. Everyone knows that.


Show me a link or a quote by McNair where he said the new coach has to stick with Carr to get the job.

Resigned Carr so he could pass on vy? LOL What an idiotic statement.

Everyone knows that? Hummm I don't believe that for a minute.

You sure do a lot of assuming. All this is just your opinion, repeating it over and over doesn't make it true.

Even Dan Reeves told McNair to draft VY when Reeves was brought in as a consultant. McNair didn't listen and stuck with that loser Carr and that is why we are currently a running joke around the league.

Again, not true...link please. Lets try to stick with the truth.

At the time Reeves was here he never expressed an opinion one way or another about vy. His opinion expressed ten months after the fact seems self serving to me.


I will give McNair some credit for admitting that it was a stupid move and getting rid of the Carrbage a year after his titanic mistake. Most millionaires much less billionaires dont like to admit when they were wrong, and he at least admitted that he screwed up....I just don't think that means we should forget about what a dumbarse he was.


I am sure Mr McNair appreciates you giving him credit.

Dumbarse? Hardly.


McNair should be around #15 or so and Snyder should be near the bottom. Kraft should be #1 with Jones a close #2. Say what you want about Jerry but he has delivered 3 trophies to the trophy case and has managed to build the greatest sporting venue in the history of mankind. that has got to be worht something.

IIRC Jimmy delivered two trophies, the great Switzer ? delivered one with Jimmys team. What has Jerruh won without Jimmys team?

One playoff game? Or did they play in one playoff game and lose it?

I could be completely off about this because I don't really follow the boys that closely.

You realize that it has taken Jerruh over twenty years to realize his team is playing in a piece of trash stadium.

Jerruh built nothing....He has made money with a franchise that was in place and making money before his arrival.

Increased revenues, certainly, but so has the NFL in general.

"the greatest sporting venue in the history of mankind" :rofl:

Somewhere between the Yankees and the Harlem Globetrotters is more like it.

Sounds like a boys fan to me.

In actuality, Bob McNair is the one that is building something.


You must sooner or later come to the realization that your opinions are just that, your opinion, and should not be written as fact.

Someone might make the mistake of believing you know what you are talking about.


:coffee:

Texan_Bill
07-03-2007, 01:36 PM
I hear you and you are right, but you used my words (unnatural love for DC) and added a translation...I just wanted to be clear that I never said that.

For the record, I don't think that "meddlesome" is that bad a trait as long as you use good sense in your decisions. I think that McNair overstepped his good sense when he tried to force a few square pegs in to some round holes before he gathered enough NFL experience when it comes to dealing with talent and the transient worth of the players who have short careers and small windows of prime. So basically, I consider him one of the leagues best owners...but he isn't above some honest non-homer critique from his fan base. I don't pretend to think I could have done a better job...but its a mb and I spew my thoughts...wrong or right.

I used those words, while somewhat ugly, I found a humorously redeeming quality to them ( I actually chuckled when I read it).

I agree with the word "meddlesome" being -or- not being a bad trait necessarily. If I invest my money, I want to have a say about where it is being distributed. But Mr. McNair has made some mistakes. He is not Lilly White by any stretch! It's just that some people's attitudes towards him are negative, that I have a hard time comprehending their disdain for him.

I would have hated to be some of these people's parents at Christmas time.. Here's the scene I envision:
/Christmas morning:

Parents: "Here dear. These are the keys to your brand new car........"
Kid: Crap.... It's not a convertable?!?!"

Second Honeymoon
07-03-2007, 01:37 PM
McNair was/is a rookie owner. Did we really expect a Super Bowl in the first 5 years? The good news is that he's learning from his mistakes, unlike some other owners who don't and continue having losing seasons (Bill Ford, Bill Bidwill, Al Davis, Randy Lerner).

I gotta object to Al Davis being on that list. He has had a tough go of it the last couple years but he has brought his team to the AFC Championship Game eleven times and 5 times in the Super Bowl with a 3-2 record. They also went to the playoffs and won their first matchup in 01, and 02, culminating in a Super Bowl appearance in '03. He has been to 2 of the last 6 AFC Championship Games and was totally robbed in that one in New England with the now re-written Tuck Rule.

The Raiders' problem has been QB. They havent been competitive since Gannon retired. They tried to put lipstick on a pig and like the Texans, got burned because of it.

Al has a lot of negatives but he is a pretty damn good owner and was largely responsible for preventing a strike/holdout a few years back.

Ford, Bidwill, Lerner, and Snyder are far and away the worst owners in the NFL. (imo)

Specnatz
07-03-2007, 01:40 PM
My last comment on this thread, second turns a thread into a carr bash fest while the thread was intended for McNair ...........


I am shocked beyond belief, I mean this is the first time he has turned a thread into a carr thread and you say we can't get over him LMAO!!!



:fans: :texflag: :d:

Vinny
07-03-2007, 01:41 PM
I used those words, while somewhat ugly, I still found humorously redeeming qualities in them ( I actually chuckled when I read it).

I agree with the word "meddlesome" being -or- not being a bad trait necessarily. If I invest my money, I want to have a say about where it is being distributed. But Mr. McNair has made some mistakes. He is not Lilly White by any stretch! It's just that some people's attitudes towards him are negative, that I have a hard time comprehending their disdain for him.

I would have hated to be some of these people's parents at Christmas time.. Here's the scene I envision:
/Christmas morning:

Parents: "Here dear. These are the keys to your brand new car........"
Kid: Crap.... It's not a convertable?!?!" I agree that we sometimes go too far in the blame game...I'm guilty of that at times myself but try to be honest about my concerns. wonger made a good point (whoa, did I just say that?) about McNair being a rookie owner and we probably should expect a learning curve if we want to be fair...even though some of the mistakes were hard lessons. Winning cures all that ills us though, and I think we are going to be in the playoff hunt this year for the first time...so on balance I'm happy and can't wait till the games begin.

Kaiser Toro
07-03-2007, 01:47 PM
My last comment on this thread, second turns a thread into a carr bash fest while the thread was intended for McNair ...........


I am shocked beyond belief, I mean this is the first time he has turned a thread into a carr thread and you say we can't get over him LMAO!!!



:fans: :texflag: :d:

7 out of 34 posts mention Carr. Two of those seven quote another post with Carr mentioned. The others are an indirect response to other posts and then there is one claiming this has turned into a Carr thread. :)

Do not feed the trolls, do not continue to give a posthumous Carr more credit than he deserves and see a doctor and get rid of it. :texflag:

Second Honeymoon
07-03-2007, 02:00 PM
IIRC Jimmy delivered two trophies, the great Switzer ? delivered one with Jimmys team. What has Jerruh won without Jimmys team?

[B]cuppacarr, who delivered Jimmy? yeah. thought so. oh and anyone who knows anything about football knows that Switzer was a damn good coach

One playoff game? Or did they play in one playoff game and lose it?

I could be completely off about this because I don't really follow the boys that closely.

3 Lombardi trophies. It's not a popularity contest. I guess you just don't get it.

You realize that it has taken Jerruh over twenty years to realize his team is playing in a piece of trash stadium.

Jones has been asking for a stadium for a long time but it was a tough go of it. This isn't building a deck for your trailer. This will end up being a major feat of modern engineering once completed much less the premier sporting venue in the world

Jerruh built nothing....He has made money with a franchise that was in place and making money before his arrival.

the franchise that was in place was winning nothing and going nowhere. Jerry turned that around pretty damn fast.

Increased revenues, certainly, but so has the NFL in general.

"the greatest sporting venue in the history of mankind" :rofl:

yeah, your right. just because its in Dallas it sucks. the sheeple have spoken

Somewhere between the Yankees and the Harlem Globetrotters is more like it.

Sounds like a boys fan to me.

That's funny because you still come across as a bitter Carr homer to me who has to lash out at people who criticize the decision to keep that loser

In actuality, Bob McNair is the one that is building something.

wow something we can agree on.




You must sooner or later come to the realization that your opinions are just that, your opinion, and should not be written as fact.

Someone might make the mistake of believing you know what you are talking about.

i must know what I am talking about because i have been proven right year after year on these forums. you were one of the sheeple, deal with it and don't take it out on me. you were wrong and there were those of us that were vindicated and proven correct while you were probably pontificating about who the hotter QB was, Carr or Quinn.

you should probably take a timeout and decide whether you were a fan of the Texans or some well coifed QB that you had a mancrush on.....

....or you can do what I have always suggested, and go decaf.


:coffee:

i hate responding to quote responses :(

Second Honeymoon
07-03-2007, 02:02 PM
My last comment on this thread, second turns a thread into a carr bash fest while the thread was intended for McNair ...........


I am shocked beyond belief, I mean this is the first time he has turned a thread into a carr thread and you say we can't get over him LMAO!!!



:fans: :texflag: :d:

lmfao. its hard to talk about McNair being rated #7 without mentioning the whole Carr fiasco. I thought I was staying pretty much on point for the most part.....but like you said err sarcastically inferred, it wouldn't be the first time that I have had a hand in morphing a thread.

Porky
07-03-2007, 02:48 PM
I have nothing to add. I'm just glad to see Vinny back in the game!

:includeme:

cuppacoffee
07-03-2007, 03:12 PM
i hate responding to quote responses :(

You also avoid answering them.

Did you furnish one link to support the untruths you were pontificating?

Nope.

Reeves never suggested releasing Carr and drafting VY as part of his consulting recommendations. Prove me wrong. Show me a link or even a quote at the time Reeves was hired to consult.

Not an offhand remark ten months after the fact. You can't.

It's all your opinion, not an particle of fact.

I will answer your question though, yes, Jerruh did hire Jimmy.

Now answer mine. You do realize that he also fired him and hasn't won anything since,..... don't you?

Or will you respond with more trash talk.

And Switzer was a good 'college' coach.

You sound like a frustrated boys fan bragging about looong past history.

Do you even realize how long ago it was that the boys were even relevent in the playoffs?

Great owner/franchise? Hardly.

Boys fan? Titans fan? Like they say, "if it sounds like a duck... "


:coffee:

Texans Horror
07-03-2007, 03:22 PM
:popcorn:

Good stuff...

Second Honeymoon
07-03-2007, 03:49 PM
You also avoid answering them.

Did you furnish one link to support the untruths you were pontificating?

Nope.

Reeves never suggested releasing Carr and drafting VY as part of his consulting recommendations. Prove me wrong. Show me a link or even a quote at the time Reeves was hired to consult.

Not an offhand remark ten months after the fact. You can't.

that 'offhand' remark was Reeves saying that he told McNair to draft VY...when he said it is unimportant. he said it. was Reeves lying?

It's all your opinion, not an particle of fact.

I will answer your question though, yes, Jerruh did hire Jimmy.

Now answer mine. You do realize that he also fired him and hasn't won anything since,..... don't you?

actually the Cowboys won a Super Bowl after Jimmy left. Jimmy had been gone for 2 years when they won the 3rd title. Anyone with half a brain knows that the demise of the Cowboys began when Aikman retired. You can't win without a good QB and if anyone knows that it should be a Texans fan.

Or will you respond with more trash talk.

yo momma :)

And Switzer was a good 'college' coach.

It's funny how that fat guy at Notre Dame is a genius Head Coach but can't beat any legit NCAA football power while Switzer is a braindead hick. Switzer took the Cowboys to 2 NFC Championship Games and won a Super Bowl....I guess that is an inconvenient truth though. Oh and damn right he was a great college coach and he was a damn good NFL coach. He is just a good football coach, period. He always had his team and coaching staff prepared and inspired to play good football both in NFL and in college. I just can't stand the cookie-cutter 'Switzer Sucks' nonsense. I am a Longhorn and can't stand Switzer as a coach but to say he wasn't any good or that he won with Jimmy's players is just wrong.

Great owner/franchise? Hardly.

that is laughable. 3 lombardi trophies during his watch. More than 90% of the teams have won in their entire existence. but whatever, he sucks. oh and the franchise isn't great? cmon now. Its one of the most recognizable names in Sports and is one of the most valued franchises in the world....oh and they are building this huge stadium that makes most NFL stadiums look like a chicken coup....but whatever, there franchise is a joke says the sheeple

Boys fan? Titans fan? Like they say, "if it sounds like a duck... "

so now I am not a fan of the Texans? do you even read the stuff you write? i know it sucks being wrong all the time about your team but don't hate on someone who has forgotten more than you have ever known about the Texans. So keep on drinking your coffee and keep on being wrong about everything and keep on homering for your boy. Weve all heard it for years and it still rings as hollow as it did back then.

as for the link to the Reeves comments, its kinda tough to link an interview you heard on live radio on SR610. You know what was said, its not a big secret or some vast neo-con conspiracy. It was said and it doesn't surprise me at all. so basically your only argument is that Reeves is lying to save face. yeah, whatever. NEXT!
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32579


:coffee:

If I started a wikipedia entry for 'sheeple', you and caddy's faces would be used as a visual aid. I might need to put that on my Things To Do list....

oh wait, never mind its July 4th week. Happy July 4th. USA USA USA :homer:

Porky
07-03-2007, 04:52 PM
Winner and still Champion over the Sheeples in a one round knockout -

Second Honeymoon!

:trophy: :perfect10:


Goodbye Cup a joe...

:survivor:

Texans_Chick
07-03-2007, 05:15 PM
that smells like spin to me. i read Reeves quote that he told McNair that he should draft VY but that he didnt say that McNair needed to get rid of Carr. Seems like you have it the other way around. However you spell it, Reeves was right about VY and wrong about Carr and Bob McNair was wrong about both.

and if McNair isn't picking RB because of character issues, that is just laughable. he won the freaking Heisman for crying out loud. yeah, he took some money but that goes on everywhere and is not unique to RB. his problem was that he lied about it to Bob. All he had to tell Bob was 'my parents probably took advantage of my college status and used it to improve their situation. I am sorry Bob but I won't let you down'.....instead he allegedly lied to his face in a direct question..it was High Stakes Poker and McNair called RB's and more importantly, his agent's bluff that Friday Afternoon.

stephanie, i am not a blogger or a texans insider but over 3 years ago I was on this board stating that Carr's work ethic was poor and that he was among the first to leave the complex and did not work with his teammates in the offseason or outside of team organized activities. I stated that he was notoriously lacking in his film study. I also stated that he wasn't 'one of the guys' and didnt hang out with his teammates outside of team organized activities and charities. I stated that Al Saunders brought a PowerPoint presentation to his Texans job interview that showed all the problems Carr has with his release point and with his reading of the defense/knowledge of his position and that was a huge reason he was not considered for the job even though he was probably the most coveted HC candidate that offseason. I wrote that a lot of the Offensive Lineman were kinda offended that Carr bought them paint ball guns after '04 and who wouldn't be offended by that? I was called a moron, a carr hater, and just about everything in the book. I knew what I knew and I was eventually proven correct. The sheeple (including McNair) continued to hitch their wagon to that loser. I had my sources but I ain't outing a friend who does have inside knowledge. (fyi - he isn't a member of the Texans but does deal with multiple Texans on a day-to-day basis when they are at the facility/homegame and is close with many of them...lets just say that he lends them an ear and has heard some hardcore rants)

so why am I not surprised when someone else says that I am wrong or that I don't know what I am talking about? Bottom line is that McNair hired Kubiak to coach Carr up. Reeves told McNair to draft VY but that Carr didn't need to be fired. McNair didn't heed his device and passed on Bush because RB did some unethical stuff in college and wasn't forthcoming with the truth and wasn't going to sign before the draft. Mario was more willing to sign before the draft and in their infinite wisdom was chosen instead of Bush, Ferguson, or VY.

i love your blog but stop trying to change the facts in order to put Bob in a better light. Bob screwed up. Period. End of story. At least he didn't wait another 5 years to admit it and turned the page this offseason. I give him a lot of credit for that all the time.

for the record, I think we have a good chance this season at improvement. having the youngest starters in the league is fine in my book and Smith seems to have things going in the right direction. no more overpaying for players and no more wtf?!?! draft picks. I think our roster is quite respectable especially when you consider how much dead capspace we have courtesy of Casserley. I love my Texans. GO TEXANS!


The blog lets you see the links yourself and make your own conclusions. I don't know where you are pulling out your *facts* about stuff other than maybe misremembering. The interviews that Reeves did at the time of the Shrine game were self-serving, but they were the most complete that were done at the time.

It would be totally goofy in a salary cap league to do the buy back of Carr in February at that price, and then draft VY with the first pick in April. Once they made the decision on Carr, the writing was on the wall.

Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2325442)

The Texans' confidence has wavered only slightly in Carr in four seasons. Every indication in recent weeks was that the Texans would pay the "buy back" bonus to keep Carr.

Former NFL head coach Dan Reeves, who served as a consultant to Texans owner Bob McNair, recommended keeping Carr, the top overall choice in the 2002 draft. First-year head coach Gary Kubiak, who has a strong reputation around the league for developing quarterbacks and whose presence could enhance Carr's performance, apparently gave him a strong endorsement, too.

Okay, Dan Reeves how is it that you recommended keeping Carr but though Young was great too?

A YEAR later, he says that he thought that Young should have been looked at even if you kept Carr:

link (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/category/texans/2007/01/14/texans-consultant-dan-reeves-wanted-to-draft-vince-young/)

"I don't know if they ever asked my advice, but I looked at (Young) and told them that he was a guy they would have to consider even with David Carr there," Reeves said.

That suggests that he wasn't an active participant in the draft process.

Then later he crawdaddies a bit:

Whether you had a David Carr or not, you had to evaluate the young man and see if this does fit in your picture. And basically what it came down to is I liked what I saw, and I also liked what I saw in David Carr.

But then it was, in my opinion, who ever came here as a head coach, for him to sit down, look at David Carr and evaluate him and say, you know, is this the guy I want? And that's exactly what they did. Gary Kubiak came in and felt comfortable with David Carr so then it eliminated the possibility of taking Vince Young. And I don't disagree with that at all. To me it's up to who you bring in as a head coach to make that evaluation.

Of course, he is trying to make himself look better because he is saying he is still interested in coaching, and was as confused about the Williams pick as anyone else.

So basically this is the scenario:

Casserly likes Carr wants the Texans to draft Bush. (According to John McClain, he wanted to announce the Bush pick early). He thinks Carr is not the problem.

McNair hires Reeves. Reeves follows the team and believes that Carr is not the problem, says that to McNair and publicly. He endorses Kubiak as the new HC.

If CC, Reeves, and Kubiak says that Carr is not the problem, so the buyback is exercised IN FEBRUARY. It would have been completely irrational to then go out and draft VY.

It's my opinion, not fact, that the Texans 2006 draft was a cluster resulting from really really bad timing:

Link (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/04/17/explaining-the-mario-williams-pick-a-year-later/)

(Oh, and I don't mention finding out the injuries to Domanick Williams and Jerome Mathis late-ish in the process)

As for the investigation stuff of Reggie, it really was terrible timing. The worst stuff about him was coming up right before the draft, Reggie wasn't being particularly forthcoming (nor has he ever), and there were all nasty sorts of rumors swirling around. For example one I heard was fears of a federal tax investigation of Bush for not paying taxes on the gifts he received.

So, you can see me as an apologist of Bob, but I see what he did as something that could be rational decision under the circumstances. It is my opinion, but my opinion is based on the facts at the time.

Runner
07-03-2007, 05:42 PM
Three points after reading this thread.

1) I can not tell everyone how pleased I am that there is a new term, "sheeple", for those who supported Carr and did not want to admit he had failed. Of course, some of them bring it on themselves for still not facing up and moving on. I'm sure such a fancy new word will provide plenty of mirth to the jokers, while ruining thread after thread.

2) I'm glad to know there are already several words for people who continually, week after week, pound their chests after being proven right in an opinion they held. Frequently these people bring up Carr as much as the "sheeples", in posts such as "What do you mean Salaam isn't a good left tackle - you must be a Carr lover". It reminds me of what you say to a player who goes overboard in end zone celebrations: Act like you've been there before.

3) Should we have a contest for the new word we'll need? It would be a word to describe the people who think all of the team's problems are fixed because they replaced a lackluster quarterback. This word could have been used every year since the team began. It must describe someone who has to find someone to blame when his/her own unrealistic expectations are not met.

aj.
07-03-2007, 05:45 PM
Congrats to him.

OrangeLotPole8
07-03-2007, 05:48 PM
Just because you say these things, doesn't make them true.

Reeves was not consulted on who to draft. He did advise that Carr was not the problem. Check out for example this link: Dan Reeves: Futher Explains His View on Vince Young, Reggie Bush and Mario Williams (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/01/17/dan-reeves-futher-explains-his-view-on-vince-young-reggie-bush/)

Casserly was very anti-VY, and still is. Remember his top 10 list of QBs with less than 40 starts. See who is missing?

10 Alex Smith
9 Jason Campbell
8 Matt Leinert
7 Rex Grossman
6 Tony Romo
5 Bryan Leftwich
4 Big Ben
3 Eli Manning
2 Philip Rivers
1 Carson Palmer

If Reeves comes in and says no problem with Carr, and Casserly is saying the same thing, why should Bob McNair think any differently?

The head coach (KUBES) HAD to say that he could win with Carr to get the job.

Second Honeymoon
07-03-2007, 05:59 PM
So, you can see me as an apologist of Bob, but I see what he did as something that could be rational decision under the circumstances. It is my opinion, but my opinion is based on the facts at the time.

TC - I don't think you are a rubber stamp apologist for Bob. You are more objective than most of the 'media' around here. You try and present both sides to an argument and you are smart enough to realize that the truth is somewhere in the middle.

my thing was that I hold McNair culpable for resigning Carr, then the byproduct of that decision in the passing up of VY, and for the desire to only consider coaches who were willing to try and retool Carr. It seemed to me, and I could be wrong in the assumption, that you were kinda passing the buck to Casserley/Kubiak in regards to the Mario pick over Young and ultimately Bush. That was McNair that made that happen. I can't rationalize the decision making because it seemed more predicated on off the field issues and not football issues (signability, admitting Carr was a bad 1st overall pick, and going with someone who may have been involved in some unethical issues in college)

it may end up working alright for him but his meddling in those personnel moves has presently cost the Texans a lot of ridicule, momentum, and future promise.

hope you and the rest of the Texans community have a great July 4th...that includes you cupacoffee :)

Double Barrel
07-03-2007, 06:04 PM
Gary Kubiak came in and felt comfortable with David Carr so then it eliminated the possibility of taking Vince Young.

I think some folks are deflecting away from Kubiak in order to avoid tarnishing him in their own minds.

The truth? We can't handle it. :D

Seriously, though, I doubt Kubiak would have ever taken Young as his QB. Leinart or Cutler would probably have been his picks, and hindsight being 20/20, it would not surprise me if he would choose RB - potential holdout and all - if given a second chance at the decision. (But, of course, a rookie HC had to bend to the will of his owner, which in this case wanted a deal inked before the draft.)

And the rest, as they say, is history. :howdy:

ps. what is weird in my alternate reality: if we had picked Bush in the draft, Carr might still be here. The dump passes would have played into Reggie's strength, and with two offensive weapons like RB and AJ, a couple more wins might have resulted. No way do they cut Carr if we had a winning record. So McNair's two big decisions last year probably conflicted with each other to create a 'perfect storm')

Second Honeymoon
07-03-2007, 06:08 PM
Three points after reading this thread.

1) I can not tell everyone how pleased I am that there is a new term, "sheeple", for those who supported Carr and did not want to admit he had failed. Of course, some of them bring it on themselves for still not facing up and moving on. I'm sure such a fancy new word will provide plenty of mirth to the jokers, while ruining thread after thread.

2) I'm glad to know there are already several words for people who continually, week after week, pound their chests after being proven right in an opinion they held. Frequently these people bring up Carr as much as the "sheeples", in posts such as "What do you mean Salaam isn't a good left tackle - you must be a Carr lover". It reminds me of what you say to a player who goes overboard in end zone celebrations: Act like you've been there before.

3) Should we have a contest for the new word we'll need? It would be a word to describe the people who think all of the team's problems are fixed because they replaced a lackluster quarterback. This word could have been used every year since the team began. It must describe someone who has to find someone to blame when his/her own unrealistic expectations are not met.

i gotta tell ya the truth, i cant take credit for sheeple. i think the term dates back to either Thunderkyss, Vinny, or Kaiser Toro using it to describe the Carr zealots back like a year ago or so. There is an outside shot it could have been Porky but I don't think so.

I will take credit for bringing it back into the public consciousness though.

Lucky
07-03-2007, 06:23 PM
So, you can see me as an apologist of Bob, but I see what he did as something that could be rational decision under the circumstances. It is my opinion, but my opinion is based on the facts at the time.
"You must spread reputation, etc."

If I read more posts this well written and factual, maybe I could spread more rep around. TC, you've once again shown great patience in outlining the process that led to the Texans 2006 draft. That this has to be re-hashed on a constant basis is baffling to me.

Here's my opinion: If the Texans had selected Reggie Bush or Vince Young #1 in '06, they would have still not made the playoffs. So as far as the results from 2006 are concerned, it didn't really matter who the Texans selected.

You say, what about the future? Clearly, Young and Bush will be better than Mario, right? I don't know that. Mario has a long way to go to realize the production and performance of a #1 pick. And, not all can be explained away by a bad foot. Williams plays too high. He doesn't use his hands effectively to get off blocks. He can be fooled because his instincts for the pro game aren't there, yet. But, Mario is 22 years old. Unquestionably, he's one of the NFL's premier physical specimens. And at times, I saw Williams make plays that made me say, "Wow!". There's no reason for me to believe that Mario can't string more of those type of plays together, and become a dominant DE.

Young and Bush realized more of their potential in their rookie season. Absolutely. But I'm sorry to say, they aren't great players. Yet. Not by a long shot. Each of them must get better to become an upper echelon player. A lot better. Of course, there's no reason why they won't get better. Just as there's no real proof as to why Mario won't make major improvements. The fact is that right now, 7/3/07, no one knows for a fact if the Texans made a mistake on draft day, or not.

I don't know where to rank Bob McNair on the list of NFL owners. I do know that I'm glad he's the owner of the NFL team I cheer for and support. I do believe he's trying his best to build a great organization and a great team. I also believe McNair's fingerprints are all over the #1 selection in 2006. As they should be. And call me a homer all you want to, but you cannot convince me that there is enough evidence to claim he made a mistake in selecting Mario.

Honoring Earl 34
07-03-2007, 06:46 PM
I don't know where to rank Bob McNair on the list of NFL owners. I do know that I'm glad he's the owner of the NFL team I cheer for and support. I do believe he's trying his best to build a great organization and a great team. I also believe McNair's fingerprints are all over the #1 selection in 2006. As they should be. And call me a homer all you want to, but you cannot convince me that there is enough evidence to claim he made a mistake in selecting Mario.


It's hard to get on Bob because it's like playing poker ... you pay to learn . I guess he listened to CC , then doubted CC and hired Reeves . In the meantime Dom has been thrown under the bus by CC .

I think Reeves was job hunting and we all know where Bob's soft spot was . I think Reeves did a 180 when VY did well and you can bet your #$#$$ that if VY stinks this year they'll do another 180 .

Porky
07-03-2007, 06:49 PM
i gotta tell ya the truth, i cant take credit for sheeple. i think the term dates back to either Thunderkyss, Vinny, or Kaiser Toro using it to describe the Carr zealots back like a year ago or so. There is an outside shot it could have been Porky but I don't think so.

I will take credit for bringing it back into the public consciousness though.

I have used it, but certainly didn't create it. I'm not sure who used it first in relationship to the Carr lovers, but I think it fits.

A thread talking about the relative merits of Bob Mcnairs decision that didn't at least mention Carr would be like talking about the relative merits of OJ Simpson while not mentioning Ron Goldman. I have no problem with it, and there are plenty of other threads that don't mention Carr.

nunusguy
07-04-2007, 09:27 AM
my thing was that I hold McNair culpable for resigning Carr, then the byproduct of that decision in the passing up of VY, and for the desire to only consider coaches who were willing to try and retool Carr. It seemed to me, and I could be wrong in the assumption, that you were kinda passing the buck to Casserley/Kubiak in regards to the Mario pick over Young and ultimately Bush. That was McNair that made that happen.
I think you've nailed it there S-H. Plus your earlier speculation about a likely
scenario of how Big Bobs ego got in the way re Bush's visit to Houston
and USC players lack of a subservient demeanor. Quite the opposite actually, Bush and his agent(s) may have been downright arrogant in their confidance of his inevitability as the Drafts #1 pick.
And somebody else said something about the bad timing on the story about Bushs familly, agent, and the rental house. The Draft is now like a political campaign: expect the dirt to come out right before the election because thats when it has its maximun effective. In other words, it was not a coincidence it came out the week of the Draft, but it sure seemed to catch the Texans off guard. And that's their fault, because they should have had a "Plan B": they should have been prepared to go another way besides Bush if they cooled on him for whatever reason in the last week and not just panic and take whos available. In other words, a trade.
The consensus is that Bush at the best was the #2 rookie back (besides QBs) last year after former cross-town rival Maurice Drew-Jones, who scored a half-dozen more TDs than Bush and had 'bout 350 more rushing yards than Bush. Still the talk is about Bush vs. Mario and not Maurice D-J vs. Mario because well,...................
After basically a disappointing rookie year in comparison to the other top picks from his Draft, Mario has this season to redeem himself. The Texans spin is that he's now healthy, has been asserted at a single position at weakside DE and won't be confused by being moved around within the Dline, and is in his second year so he's more settled and adjusted.
We shall see.

aj.
07-04-2007, 09:41 AM
The consensus is that Bush at the best was the #2 rookie back (besides QBs) last year after former cross-town rival Maurice Drew-Jones, who scored a half-dozen more TDs than Bush and had 'bout 350 more rushing yards than Bush. Still the talk is about Bush vs. Mario and not Maurice D-J vs. .

If you're going to talk about top rookie backs from last year, you need to mention Joseph Addai. He's as complete and productive as any rookie RB from last season. And it wasn't all 'the system.'

As far as McNair's ranking, he's earned it by bringing the NFL back to Houston against most odds, then keeping the business healthy despite the terrible product on the football side (for which he also has responsibility) and his involvement in league matters. It is ultimately what happens on the football side that will determines his and the other owners legacies.

TEXANRED
07-04-2007, 10:35 AM
The following is my own point of view.

I was in the Carr supporter camp up until the third week of last year. I bought into it was the former coach's fault. Two OC's, a play book thrown out right before opening day, a HC that babied him, a slew of OL changes with no real LT, and no running game after DD went down. After the coaching changes I thought he had a chance to right his ship. He didn't. It was the same old David that made the same old mistakes. It was at that point that I knew, I was wrong.

However that still does not mean we should have drafted Young, Leinart is still the best QB to have come out of that class. Period. VY being on the cover of Madden and winning rookie of the year is laughable. Have we really lowered our standards to a guy who threw for just over 50%, less than 23 hundred yards and more int's than TD's? Well time will tell if I am wrong on this one too. "Superman" doesn't have Pac-man and Travis Henry to bail him out this year.

We already had an injury prone back with DD. We really didn't need another one.

Getting back to our owner. McNair only brought back the NFL to the city of Houston. A miracle in itself considering he went up against L.A. No way should we have beaten them out for the last expansion team, but it was McNairs leadership and vision that landed us the 32nd team.

When the NFL tried to scare him off with a record 700 million dollar franchise fee he didn't even blink. Instead, he opened up his check book and asked "Who do I make the check out to?"

He has done nothing but great things for the city of Houston, including landing a Superbowl. He has given back to the community, given money to charities, and has done a good job of lobbying to get the Texans as much exposure as he can. He has held his employees and his players under the highest standards making sure the city of Houston is not embarrassed.

So his what is his one crime? Loyalty? Cass is the one who made personnel decisions, Capers is the one who gave Cass the input. Year three we went 7-9 and improved each year with each team looking better and better. No one could have guessed the wheels would fall off the bus the following year and go 2-14.

For any Dallas fan out there I have just two words. Quincey Carter.

But I do love to read the trollish statements by people who claim to be Texan fans but sport a VY avi. Not mentioning anyone specific. But they might also live in the woodlands, but that is as far as I go.

Yes this team has had its problems but McNair has handled himself with dignity and pride, has made himself available to the fans and media, even after everything this team has gone through, has never thrown anyone under the bus, and has given back to the community. I think he is a great owner.

Great things come to those who wait.

Texans_Chick
07-04-2007, 11:07 AM
I was in the Carr supporter camp up until the third week of last year. I bought into it was the former coach's fault. Two OC's, a play book thrown out right before opening day, a HC that babied him, a slew of OL changes with no real LT, and no running game after DD went down. After the coaching changes I thought he had a chance to right his ship. He didn't. It was the same old David that made the same old mistakes. It was at that point that I knew, I was wrong.

However that still does not mean we should have drafted Young, Leinart is still the best QB to have come out of that class. Period. VY being on the cover of Madden and winning rookie of the year is laughable. Have we really lowered our standards to a guy who threw for just over 50%, less than 23 hundred yards and more int's than TD's? Well time will tell if I am wrong on this one too. "Superman" doesn't have Pac-man and Travis Henry to bail him out this year.




Talk about gutsy moves. If the Texans kicked Carr to the curb in February, and then drafted another quarterback other than VY in April, Bob McNair and Gary Kubiak would have been tarred, feathered, and run out of town on rails. The Mario choice would be cake in comparison.

Good comments about McNair stepping up to the plate.

rickyb
07-04-2007, 11:26 AM
3) Should we have a contest for the new word we'll need? It would be a word to describe the people who think all of the team's problems are fixed because they replaced a lackluster quarterback. This word could have been used every year since the team began. It must describe someone who has to find someone to blame when his/her own unrealistic expectations are not met.

Cheney.
:hunter:

Historyhorn
07-04-2007, 12:00 PM
Stuff your facts--they're not welcome here :)

Doesn't help that I and even others have publicly stated that we know people who worked with and in some cases WERE a part of the draft decision--it was a football decision made by the staff who were paid to make these decisions and it had nothing to do with McNair saying Carr or else.

But ... some fans just won't take no for an answer.

So what you're saying is that the paid professionals screwed that draft up. Not McNair. Got it. It's still a screw-up (at this point) and the head man picked the guys who were running the draft and knew their history in drafts.

Go Texans

the wonger need food
07-04-2007, 12:26 PM
So what you're saying is that the paid professionals screwed that draft up. Not McNair. Got it. It's still a screw-up (at this point) and the head man picked the guys who were running the draft and knew their history in drafts.

Go Texans

Last year's draft was a screw up? That should be news to a lot of people considering the Texans drafted the Defensive Rookie of the Year, the most productive rookie TE in the NFL, 2 starters on the offensive line and a RB that was more productive (as a running back) than Reg Bush when he started. Hopefully they "screwed up" this year's draft that badly.

nunusguy
07-04-2007, 01:26 PM
If you're going to talk about top rookie backs from last year, you need to mention Joseph Addai. He's as complete and productive as any rookie RB from last season. And it wasn't all 'the system.'

As far as McNair's ranking, he's earned it by bringing the NFL back to Houston against most odds, then keeping the business healthy despite the terrible product on the football side (for which he also has responsibility) and his involvement in league matters. It is ultimately what happens on the football side that will determines his and the other owners legacies.
Yep, we got a bunch of Texans guys on our own Board who are all gah-gah eyed over Bush, but you're right, when it comes to performance on the field
Addai's rookie year is right there with what Drew-Jones & Bush accomplished.
And as far as any reservations I've got about some of McNair's personnel decisions, he's still my favorite owner 'cause he brought the NFL back to Houston and built a very class organization in the process.

Texans_Chick
07-04-2007, 02:10 PM
Yep, we got a bunch of Texans guys on our own Board who are all gah-gah eyed over Bush, but you're right, when it comes to performance on the field
Addai's rookie year is right there with what Drew-Jones & Bush accomplished.
And as far as any reservations I've got about some of McNair's personnel decisions, he's still my favorite owner 'cause he brought the NFL back to Houston and built a very class organization in the process.

And the organization is filled with amazingly nice nice nice people. Even when I've disagreed with some of the stuff they have done, the one constant with the organization is that the peeps that work there put a priority on being nice.

cuppacoffee
07-04-2007, 03:00 PM
that 'offhand' remark was Reeves saying that he told McNair to draft VY...when he said it is unimportant. he said it. was Reeves lying?

Reeves never told McNair to draft VY in his consulting capacity.


actually the Cowboys won a Super Bowl after Jimmy left. Jimmy had been gone for 2 years when they won the 3rd title. Anyone with half a brain knows that the demise of the Cowboys began when Aikman retired. You can't win without a good QB and if anyone knows that it should be a Texans fan.

Yes Jimmy was gone two years. Anyone with half a brain knows that was still Jimmys players.

Who drafted Aikman? Who drafted Quincy Carter?


It's funny how that fat guy at Notre Dame is a genius Head Coach but can't beat any legit NCAA football power while Switzer is a braindead hick. Switzer took the Cowboys to 2 NFC Championship Games and won a Super Bowl....I guess that is an inconvenient truth though. Oh and damn right he was a great college coach and he was a damn good NFL coach. He is just a good football coach, period. He always had his team and coaching staff prepared and inspired to play good football both in NFL and in college. I just can't stand the cookie-cutter 'Switzer Sucks' nonsense. I am a Longhorn and can't stand Switzer as a coach but to say he wasn't any good or that he won with Jimmy's players is just wrong.

Brain dead hick? "Switzer Sucks". Your words, I never said that. Not disageeing with you though. And it is very obvious that you are a tu fan, with your unbridled love of vy.

And I did not say Switzer was a great college coach, I said he was a good college coach. Similiar to darrell royal.

Again now.. and pay attention.. 2 nfc championship games and a super bowl....with Jimmys team. Why is that so hard for you to comprehend?


that is laughable. 3 lombardi trophies during his watch. More than 90% of the teams have won in their entire existence. but whatever, he sucks. oh and the franchise isn't great? cmon now. Its one of the most recognizable names in Sports and is one of the most valued franchises in the world....oh and they are building this huge stadium that makes most NFL stadiums look like a chicken coup....but whatever, there franchise is a joke says the sheeple

Where did I say their franchise is a joke?
I only disagreed that jerruh is the second coming.

You sure do sound a lot like the poster howaboutthemcowboys who used to visit here.

Sheeple? I love it when I can get a person to resort to name calling when debating an issue.

so now I am not a fan of the Texans? do you even read the stuff you write? i know it sucks being wrong all the time about your team but don't hate on someone who has forgotten more than you have ever known about the Texans. So keep on drinking your coffee and keep on being wrong about everything and keep on homering for your boy. Weve all heard it for years and it still rings as hollow as it did back then.

You need to read this thread again. Where did I homer for my boy? You are the one who is hung up on Carr.

You haven't "forgotten more" than I have ever known about the Texans, you actually remember more, even things that haven't happened.

And I don't hate you. I like all Texan fans. That is why I am trying to educate you about all things Texan.

as for the link to the Reeves comments, its kinda tough to link an interview you heard on live radio on SR610. You know what was said, its not a big secret or some vast neo-con conspiracy. It was said and it doesn't surprise me at all. so basically your only argument is that Reeves is lying to save face. yeah, whatever. NEXT!

In other words, you can't provide a link. I suspected as much.

If I started a wikipedia entry for 'sheeple', you and caddy's faces would be used as a visual aid. I might need to put that on my Things To Do list....

oh wait, never mind its July 4th week. Happy July 4th. USA USA USA :homer:[/QUOTE]

Being that you insist on name calling...I suppose your face would be used for "idiotic poster". You can put that on your 'to do' list also.

Have a nice fourth. You and your stooge porkchop, who chose to interject himself into this discussion.



:coffee:

HoustonFrog
07-04-2007, 03:20 PM
Geez, I don't even want to read half of the arguments because they are more about hating on other teams. The fact is that Jerry Jones did more for the NFL than most owners. He was the one who started having his team and things sponsored by Visa, Nike, Pepsi and other major companies. Heck he just redid another deal and now has AE as part of the new stadium deal. He brokered many of the deals that has made the NFL what it is today. He made msitakes with coaches and picks, etc but many owners have. He is the same as what people are labeling McNair..a man who is willing to spend money to get a winner.

I think McNair is a stud but I think #7 is high for how the team was run. Outside of football he is one of the tops. I think he is just scratching the surface of being a football man though.

I just see these things as the reality of the situation compared to being homer about it.

Texans_Chick
07-04-2007, 06:44 PM
I just see these things as the reality of the situation compared to being homer about it.

This is a subject that it is okay to be a homer about.

McNair was able to get football back where it belongs. Some might think that is easy, but ask NFL fans who live in the Los Angeles area what they think about that.

It is a miracle given the stupid national perception that Houstonians didn't care about football. Miracles make me want to dance...

:texans chick:

HoustonFrog
07-04-2007, 11:52 PM
This is a subject that it is okay to be a homer about.

McNair was able to get football back where it belongs. Some might think that is easy, but ask NFL fans who live in the Los Angeles area what they think about that.

It is a miracle given the stupid national perception that Houstonians didn't care about football. Miracles make me want to dance...

:texans chick:

I agree with you completely. I was just speaking more for my comments on Jerry Jones. I know some will take that as blasphemy.

cuppacoffee
07-05-2007, 11:50 AM
Geez, I don't even want to read half of the arguments because they are more about hating on other teams. The fact is that Jerry Jones did more for the NFL than most owners. He was the one who started having his team and things sponsored by Visa, Nike, Pepsi and other major companies. Heck he just redid another deal and now has AE as part of the new stadium deal. He brokered many of the deals that has made the NFL what it is today. He made msitakes with coaches and picks, etc but many owners have. He is the same as what people are labeling McNair..a man who is willing to spend money to get a winner.

I think McNair is a stud but I think #7 is high for how the team was run. Outside of football he is one of the tops. I think he is just scratching the surface of being a football man though.

I just see these things as the reality of the situation compared to being homer about it.

Good post Frog.

Expressed your thoughts without presenting opinions as facts.

You have me nailed though...I am a homer.


:coffee:

beerlover
07-05-2007, 12:21 PM
ranked & best are completly subjective, wins & losses however are not & can be objectively quantified (24-56). that being said the Texans as a team should improve in virtually every category because of a owner who allows his football people to excell on their own giving them the tools to "just do it" meanwhile one of the top fan bases, hungry to win, patiently waits to bask is the sun & media circus outlets :texflag:

Historyhorn
07-05-2007, 01:19 PM
Last year's draft was a screw up? That should be news to a lot of people considering the Texans drafted the Defensive Rookie of the Year, the most productive rookie TE in the NFL, 2 starters on the offensive line and a RB that was more productive (as a running back) than Reg Bush when he started. Hopefully they "screwed up" this year's draft that badly.

Tell me again how impactful that first pick was?

Gotta give it up on Ryans. Super pick.

I liked the picks of Spencer & Winston, but there is debate about whether Winston will turn into a player and whether Spencer will ever play again.

Lundy was fine for a number six, but his production and promise sure didn't keep us from bringing in a big FA in Green to carry the water, but to compare his season to RB, or Maurice Drew, or Adai....not even close for impact on the team.

Daniels appears to be ok for us at TE, but how many TE's were rookies that saw the playing time he did. I can think of only one (Davis) and even he saw four less games. I'm not going out on a limb yet to say that Daniels will outplay Davis consistently.

Look, from the second round on, the draft was good. Probably the best we've ever had, but when you have the first pick in a draft with more skill position difference makers than in nearly a decade and you miss all of them. That's got to be called a screw up.

Go Texans

real
07-05-2007, 01:27 PM
Look, from the second round on, the draft was good. Probably the best we've ever had, but when you have the first pick in a draft with more skill position difference makers than in nearly a decade and you miss all of them. That's got to be called a screw up.

Go Texans

I think you should make up your mind....

Either you are going to go from how they produced last year, or you're going to wait and see...

You say that you're going to wait and see on everyone else, but when it comes to the Mario pick we should condemn that as a failure already?

the wonger need food
07-05-2007, 01:30 PM
Look, from the second round on, the draft was good. Probably the best we've ever had, but when you have the first pick in a draft with more skill position difference makers than in nearly a decade and you miss all of them. That's got to be called a screw up.

More skill position players in nearly a decade? It sounds like ESPN has you wrapped around their little finger. If you think a running QB that can't throw more TD's than INT's and barely completes 50% of his passes is the best QB of the last decade... or a 3rd down scatback that is more like Eric Metcalf than LaDainian Tomlinson is the best RB of the last decade... then you don't watch much NFL football. There is a long list of players at each of these positions that are far more productive than these guys.

I completely disagree that the draft was a "screw up" and view it as one of the best in the entire NFL last season based on player production. Not highlight reels... actual production.

DBCooper
07-05-2007, 01:34 PM
I think when Mario makes the Pro Bowl he should wear "Bust" as his Jersey name.

Double Barrel
07-05-2007, 01:54 PM
Tell me again how impactful that first pick was?

Houston Texans - 27
Indianapolis Colts - 24

"No. 1 overall pick Mario Williams finally emerged for Houston after a quiet few weeks. He forced Dominic Rhodes ' fumble on the Colts' second play. Anthony Weaver recovered the ball on the Indianapolis 47.

Dayne's second touchdown run helped the Texans capitalize. He lowered his head and shook off a defender to cruise into the end zone for a 6-yard score that put Houston ahead 14-0."

Source (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/recap/NFL_20061224_IND@HOU)

It was the last game the Colts lost before winning the Super Bowl.

Historyhorn
07-05-2007, 03:31 PM
I think you should make up your mind....

Either you are going to go from how they produced last year, or you're going to wait and see...

You say that you're going to wait and see on everyone else, but when it comes to the Mario pick we should condemn that as a failure already?

I am talking about production.

Ryans is a stud.

Spencer is hurt and may never come back. Winston was so/so.

Daniels is at the cusp of being a top 15 TE, maybe. Not bad for round 4.

I wouldn't rank Lundy in the top 50 RB's in the NFL.

The draft after round one was good. The Williams pick will end up being like Dallas' selection of Russel Maryland out of Miami in the 90's. He'll be a solid player, but his production points to a less than spectacular career. When you look at that versus what we could have had. Reggie Bush, Matt Leinart, Vince Young, Jay Cutler, Lawrence Maroney, Joseph Adai. The handling of that first pick was a screw up. We could have had any player in that draft, instead we got a physical specimen that wowed at the combine, but was known for taking plays off and not producing consistently at the college level. He had some spectacular plays, but he was also invisible a bunch too. Fast forward to the NFL, he has talent and tools, and he makes some plays like the fumble caused against the Colts, but he was invisible a hell of a lot too.

We could have had anyone. I'm not a huge RB fan. He's a rich man's Bryant Westbrook. But he'd be an electrifying weapon on a potent offense (see New Orleans). Matt Leinart is probably the best QB in that draft. He'll be the face of that sorry franchise for years to come and could turn into the first ever Cardinal legend. Vince Young is simply a winner. Don't let the Aggy and Coog haters kid you. All he does is win. Most of those fools were arguing they'd still rather have Reggie McNeil as their QB at the end of 2005. Jay Cutler was also a possibility (trade down). Imagine Jay Cutler in a Texan uniform under Kube's tutelage. He'll be a superstar in Denver. Could have been a superstar in Houston.

What's done is done, but I detest folks trying to pretend that there was no mistake in the first round of the 2006 draft. It's like taking a sow's ear and calling it a silk purse.

Go Texans

the wonger need food
07-05-2007, 06:53 PM
What's done is done, but I detest folks trying to pretend that there was no mistake in the first round of the 2006 draft. It's like taking a sow's ear and calling it a silk purse.


Looks like you're on board with the Bristol boys. You guys got it all figured out after 16 games. There are a lot of NFL teams that could use your expertise... obviously the Texans are one of them.

Second Honeymoon
07-06-2007, 01:23 AM
that 'offhand' remark was Reeves saying that he told McNair to draft VY...when he said it is unimportant. he said it. was Reeves lying?

Reeves never told McNair to draft VY in his consulting capacity.

How do you know this. Reeves has stated otherwise and whether or not I can produce the SR610 audio is inconsequential. Many people heard it and you have even admitted he said as much. You just think he was lying. OPINION


actually the Cowboys won a Super Bowl after Jimmy left. Jimmy had been gone for 2 years when they won the 3rd title. Anyone with half a brain knows that the demise of the Cowboys began when Aikman retired. You can't win without a good QB and if anyone knows that it should be a Texans fan.

Yes Jimmy was gone two years. Anyone with half a brain knows that was still Jimmys players.

OPINION

Who drafted Aikman? Who drafted Quincy Carter?

Carter wasnt the #1 pick overall. Jones reached on him and it didn't pan out. What is your point? Jimmy picking Aikman wasn't exactly news. Any GM would have done the same.


It's funny how that fat guy at Notre Dame is a genius Head Coach but can't beat any legit NCAA football power while Switzer is a braindead hick. Switzer took the Cowboys to 2 NFC Championship Games and won a Super Bowl....I guess that is an inconvenient truth though. Oh and damn right he was a great college coach and he was a damn good NFL coach. He is just a good football coach, period. He always had his team and coaching staff prepared and inspired to play good football both in NFL and in college. I just can't stand the cookie-cutter 'Switzer Sucks' nonsense. I am a Longhorn and can't stand Switzer as a coach but to say he wasn't any good or that he won with Jimmy's players is just wrong.

Brain dead hick? "Switzer Sucks". Your words, I never said that. Not disageeing with you though. And it is very obvious that you are a tu fan, with your unbridled love of vy.

And I did not say Switzer was a great college coach, I said he was a good college coach. Similiar to darrell royal.

OPINION

Again now.. and pay attention.. 2 nfc championship games and a super bowl....with Jimmys team. Why is that so hard for you to comprehend?

OPINION


that is laughable. 3 lombardi trophies during his watch. More than 90% of the teams have won in their entire existence. but whatever, he sucks. oh and the franchise isn't great? cmon now. Its one of the most recognizable names in Sports and is one of the most valued franchises in the world....oh and they are building this huge stadium that makes most NFL stadiums look like a chicken coup....but whatever, there franchise is a joke says the sheeple

Where did I say their franchise is a joke?
I only disagreed that jerruh is the second coming.

I never said Jerry was the 2nd coming. I said he was the 2nd best owner in the league behind Mr. Kraft. There is a big difference. Once again your statement is an OPINION

You sure do sound a lot like the poster howaboutthemcowboys who used to visit here.

Sheeple? I love it when I can get a person to resort to name calling when debating an issue.

Translation: My peepee hurts.

so now I am not a fan of the Texans? do you even read the stuff you write? i know it sucks being wrong all the time about your team but don't hate on someone who has forgotten more than you have ever known about the Texans. So keep on drinking your coffee and keep on being wrong about everything and keep on homering for your boy. Weve all heard it for years and it still rings as hollow as it did back then.

You need to read this thread again. Where did I homer for my boy? You are the one who is hung up on Carr.

You haven't "forgotten more" than I have ever known about the Texans, you actually remember more, even things that haven't happened.

And I don't hate you. I like all Texan fans. That is why I am trying to educate you about all things Texan.

Educate me about being a Texans fan? No thanks. I prefer to remain objective and honest as a fan and not just a uninformed sheeple(TM).

as for the link to the Reeves comments, its kinda tough to link an interview you heard on live radio on SR610. You know what was said, its not a big secret or some vast neo-con conspiracy. It was said and it doesn't surprise me at all. so basically your only argument is that Reeves is lying to save face. yeah, whatever. NEXT!

In other words, you can't provide a link. I suspected as much.

Your claim is that Reeves was lying. For some reason I think I will take Dan Reeves word over some overcaffeinated member of the sheeple

If I started a wikipedia entry for 'sheeple', you and caddy's faces would be used as a visual aid. I might need to put that on my Things To Do list....

oh wait, never mind its July 4th week. Happy July 4th. USA USA USA :homer:

Being that you insist on name calling...I suppose your face would be used for "idiotic poster". You can put that on your 'to do' list also.

Good one. Did you hire Gallagher to punch-up your post? Was Larry the Cable Guy busy? Try again

Have a nice fourth. You and your stooge porkchop, who chose to interject himself into this discussion.

I am assuming your referring to Porky. A stooge? So because he has had a similar take on the Texans the past few years, he is a stooge of mine? The fact remains that our little band of 'stooges' have been right all along. I guess Kubiak and McNair are stooges too because they obviously felt the same way we have the past few years based on their actions this offseason. Don't try and bring other posters into this because this is about you being wrong and not being able to acknowledge that you have little to no credibility about anything that isn't Touchdown Jesus-related. Go peddle your wares elsewhere. I ain't buyin'.




:coffee:

Hope everyone had a great July 4th. Went down to Freeport and it was a freaking mess. Good fireworks show but was pretty much a shut-in all holiday long.

cupacoffee. nothing personal. I don't think your a troll or a dumbarse or anything. you seem pretty intelligent and probably a good guy to share a cupacoffee with. I just feel that you are lacking when it comes to Texans-related analysis. Your past record on the big issues isn't exactly stellar. I am an opinionated guy but I have been proved to be correct on so many Texans personnel issues that I have posted about as Second Honeymoon or my original banned identity from '02-'04, Honeymoon Is Over (RIP).

The1ApplePie
07-06-2007, 10:36 AM
I think the biggest mistake in the 2006 draft was passing on the ability to fix the offense in basically 1 draft.

Draft Bush number 1
or
Draft VY number 1
or
Trade 1st pick to Jets for 2 1sts and a 3rd

Lucky
07-06-2007, 11:00 AM
Trade 1st pick to Jets for 2 1sts and a 3rd
Why do you believe such a trade was on the table?

Texans_Chick
07-06-2007, 11:01 AM
I think the biggest mistake in the 2006 draft was passing on the ability to fix the offense in basically 1 draft.

Draft Bush number 1
or
Draft VY number 1
or
Trade 1st pick to Jets for 2 1sts and a 3rd

I've talked to tons of people about this. People that don't pull opinions out of their rearends. There was no trade to the Jets that was out there. No legit source says that was available and you can't make a trade that isn't there unless you are proposterous trade suggester.

Fix the offense in 1 draft? With one player? I didn't know LT was available to join Drew Brees in 2007 for the Texans?

The1ApplePie
07-06-2007, 11:05 AM
Why do you believe such a trade was on the table?

Jets offered that (or maybe a 4th instead of a 3rd)
Casserly wanted two 1sts and a 2nd

Second Honeymoon
07-06-2007, 11:59 AM
Jets offered that (or maybe a 4th instead of a 3rd)
Casserly wanted two 1sts and a 2nd

I have never heard anything about any concrete trade proposals for our #1 pick. Casserley was probably trying to get similar value that the Chargers got dealing Eli Manning (#1 overall). Bush doesn't play QB so that was never going to happen and was just wishful thinking. I fully endorsed a trade down if we werent taking Bush (and obviously VY was not an option due to Carr's prior resigning/option) but I guess Asserley's price was too high. I guess not every GM is as dumb as Casserley. I would have taken the #4 overall pick and a 2nd round and a 2007 3rd round for the #1 overall pick....but Casserley wanted more and by the time the draft rolled around there were no takers.

From what I hear is that we were poised to take Bush at #1 unless we got a deal that blew us out of the water. After Bush's face to face meeting with McNair in which he allegedly lied to McNair's face about his family's acceptance of booster $$ and their house, McNair was not going to make Bush the #1 pick overall without a contract signed, sealed, and delivered and really didn't want anyone who was that dishonest to his face. Bush's agent said that they would not sign a pre-draft contract thus McNair called his bluff and we chose Mario who was the best player at probably our greatest position of need, DE/Pass Rush.

HOU-TEX
07-06-2007, 12:04 PM
Jets offered that (or maybe a 4th instead of a 3rd)
Casserly wanted two 1sts and a 2nd

Where are you coming up with this? Do you have a link? I remember the Jets being mentioned as a possible trade candidate, but never heard of an actual proposal.

cuppacoffee
07-06-2007, 12:27 PM
More skill position players in nearly a decade? It sounds like ESPN has you wrapped around their little finger. If you think a running QB that can't throw more TD's than INT's and barely completes 50% of his passes is the best QB of the last decade... or a 3rd down scatback that is more like Eric Metcalf than LaDainian Tomlinson is the best RB of the last decade... then you don't watch much NFL football. There is a long list of players at each of these positions that are far more productive than these guys.

I completely disagree that the draft was a "screw up" and view it as one of the best in the entire NFL last season based on player production. Not highlight reels... actual production.


I can't believe it. :D

I agree with wonger. :highfive:

:coffee:

cuppacoffee
07-06-2007, 12:44 PM
Hope everyone had a great July 4th. Went down to Freeport and it was a freaking mess. Good fireworks show but was pretty much a shut-in all holiday long.

cupacoffee. nothing personal. I don't think your a troll or a dumbarse or anything. you seem pretty intelligent and probably a good guy to share a cupacoffee with. I just feel that you are lacking when it comes to Texans-related analysis. Your past record on the big issues isn't exactly stellar. I am an opinionated guy but I have been proved to be correct on so many Texans personnel issues that I have posted about as Second Honeymoon or my original banned identity from '02-'04, Honeymoon Is Over (RIP).

Everythings fine with me too.

I considered the discussion over when the best you could come up with is "the fat coach at Notre Dame".

But then you topped it with the juvenile/asinine remark "my pee pee hurts" whatever that means.

We're through... for now.

Have a nice day.


:coffee:

Overalls
07-06-2007, 01:15 PM
I think the biggest mistake in the 2006 draft was passing on the ability to fix the offense in basically 1 draft.

Draft Bush number 1
or
Draft VY number 1
or
Trade 1st pick to Jets for 2 1sts and a 3rd

The Urban Legend continues

beerlover
07-06-2007, 01:35 PM
The Urban Legend continues

yes it does :gun:

the mistake was sticking with Carr

then not giving him a #1 option in Reggie Bush or trade down a couple picks & address protection D'Brickashaw Ferguson.

on McNair you bet it is but getting rid of Casserly priceless

now we can move forward with the type of management that made McNair a success in the first place Bob will ascend much higher than just 7th nobody is perfect, well maybe Vince Young :heart: :bat: :drive:

The1ApplePie
07-06-2007, 01:59 PM
Where are you coming up with this? Do you have a link? I remember the Jets being mentioned as a possible trade candidate, but never heard of an actual proposal.

On the post draft thing they have on Channel 13, McNair and Casserly were on. When asked about trade offers, they said the Jets offered them the two firsts, and a mid round pick, but they wanted a 2nd rounder thrown in, which didn't happen.

Lucky
07-06-2007, 02:26 PM
On the post draft thing they have on Channel 13, McNair and Casserly were on. When asked about trade offers, they said the Jets offered them the two firsts, and a mid round pick, but they wanted a 2nd rounder thrown in, which didn't happen.
Did anyone record this? I watched that draft review, and I don't remember that at all. Seems that would have resulted in some discussions regarding that that proposal on the message boards. I can't find that, either.

I do remember that on either ESPN or the NFL network draft day coverage, someone reported that the Jets had offered the Saints a 4th round pick to move from #4 to #2. The Saints turned that offer down (the only one they received) and took Reggie for themselves.

Vinny
07-06-2007, 02:31 PM
I had a big time source in the Casserly regime and he told me we started asking for 3 first round picks as compensation and everyone laughed at us (loose translation). This is just rumor...so take it fwiw.

Texan_Bill
07-06-2007, 02:36 PM
I had a big time source in the Casserly regime and he told me we started asking for 3 first round picks as compensation and everyone laughed at us (loose translation). This is just rumor...so take it fwiw.

The Texans asked for 3 x first rounders? Really??........ I mean with a straight face????

Second Honeymoon
07-06-2007, 02:47 PM
On the post draft thing they have on Channel 13, McNair and Casserly were on. When asked about trade offers, they said the Jets offered them the two firsts, and a mid round pick, but they wanted a 2nd rounder thrown in, which didn't happen.

Wow. Simply wow. How could they not take that trade? We could have probably still gotten Mario at #4 and if not we could have gotten Ferguson for sure and of course the extra 1st Round pick plus filler. So we get Mario for a cheaper price, less pressure on him, less pressure on the Texans including #8, more talent on the field, and we save ourselves from some national egg we got on our face. like it or not, we got big time egg on our face until Mario starts making the Pro Bowl on an almost annual basis.

your quote just makes me despise Asserley that much more. i never knew he actually stated what he was offered in trade, i thought it was just rumors.

:drunk: here is to hoping that Mario starts to pay dividends this year.
i don't need instant gratification or a Pro Bowl appearance but I hope to see some marked improvement this year from #90 this year and I know I am not the only one.

Vinny
07-06-2007, 02:48 PM
The Texans asked for 3 x first rounders? Really??........ I mean with a straight face????that's what I heard...I posted this a few times last year after the draft. I negotiate for a living so I understand posturing for more than you think you are going to get...but asking for way too much is a sign of arrogance/stupidity too.

HJam72
07-06-2007, 02:48 PM
I had a big time source in the Casserly regime and he told me we started asking for 3 first round picks as compensation and everyone laughed at us (loose translation). This is just rumor...so take it fwiw.

I wouldn't doubt it. The fanbase screaming, "Trade Down!" and Casserly is simultaneously demanding 3 first rounders. :brickwall:

Second Honeymoon
07-06-2007, 02:50 PM
Did anyone record this? I watched that draft review, and I don't remember that at all. Seems that would have resulted in some discussions regarding that that proposal on the message boards. I can't find that, either.

I do remember that on either ESPN or the NFL network draft day coverage, someone reported that the Jets had offered the Saints a 4th round pick to move from #4 to #2. The Saints turned that offer down (the only one they received) and took Reggie for themselves.

That was what I remembered from the Draft Day coverage. I thought that was a bit low of a price and thought the Jets must be dreaming if they thought a 4th Round pick would get that done.

Second Honeymoon
07-06-2007, 03:00 PM
that's what I heard...I posted this a few times last year after the draft. I negotiate for a living so I understand posturing for more than you think you are going to get...but asking for way too much is a sign of arrogance/stupidity too.

that is just insulting. what gets my goat is if they valued Bush as worth three 1st Round picks then why in the hell did the draft Mario over him?

Oh well, whats done is done but that doesnt make me despise Casserley any less. He drafted Heath Shuler and David Carr. Two of the most colossal QB busts in recent history. Are we sure he didn't have a hand in the drafting of Ryan Leaf as well? I am so freaking glad McNair kicked his butt to the curb and replaced him with someone who seems to know what the hell he is doing.

Rick Smith has done an exemplary job since he arrived. The fact that he had the gonads to jettison Carr one year into his deal just shows he has juevos of steel. I also love the fact that he is young and a minority. It shows that McNair isn't afraid to be progressive in his front office talent. I am sure Denver's owner Bolen (sic) gave RS a glowing review to Bob. He is a damn good owner too and I respect the Broncos organization as much as any other AFC team. I hope it falls into place this year and the Texans can be more competitive and become a more entertaining product on the field as well.

Lucky
07-06-2007, 03:07 PM
That was what I remembered from the Draft Day coverage. I thought that was a bit low of a price and thought the Jets must be dreaming if they thought a 4th Round pick would get that done.
They were probably hoping to catch the Saints with their pants down. The Saints had less than 24 Hrs from the Texans announcement of agreeing with Mario to turning in their card. And, that's probably what it was worth to the Jets to move up. They had no intention of tossing away their draft for one player.

Which again shows that Bush was not as highly thought of as the media portrayed. If he were universally thought of as a transcendent talent, someone would have offered a Ricky Williams deal.

Vinny
07-06-2007, 03:11 PM
Which again shows that Bush was not as highly thought of as the media portrayed. If he were universally thought of as a transcendent talent, someone would have offered a Ricky Williams deal.I think Bush is an elite talent but that draft had talent rated very highly at LT, DE, RB, and at QB...all positions that are critical to NFL teams. No reason to give up the bank if you are going to get an elite player if you stand pat.

Runner
07-06-2007, 03:20 PM
Rick Smith has done an exemplary job since he arrived. The fact that he had the gonads to jettison Carr one year into his deal just shows he has juevos of steel.

I think it shows he had permission to do so.

Second Honeymoon
07-06-2007, 04:11 PM
I think it shows he had permission to do so.

oh yes, without a doubt. mcnair had as big of a hand in getting rid of Carr than he did in resigning him. he admitted he made a mistake. when you are a billionaire and have investors on your back, it takes gonads of steel to cut bait not even 12 months after such a crippling and widely panned move was made. he wasn't stubborn and approved the release of DC. I give McNair credit for Carr being gone and I give RS credit for not just being a yes man, as I am sure he informed McNair that Carr was not the answer and that they needed to cut bait ASAP. They both are to be applauded this offseason. I do kinda wish we could have found a way to keep Moulds though. I wonder if there is stuff we don't know about in relation to Moulds.

Maddict5
07-06-2007, 06:41 PM
On the post draft thing they have on Channel 13, McNair and Casserly were on. When asked about trade offers, they said the Jets offered them the two firsts, and a mid round pick, but they wanted a 2nd rounder thrown in, which didn't happen.

this is the only 'evidence' ive ever seen of trade negotiations

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/04/22/mmqb/1.html

Reminds me of last year before the draft when then-Houston GM Charley Casserly, trying to gauge interest with teams below him for the first overall pick, called New Orleans, Tennessee and the Jets. Casserly asked Jets GM Mike Tannenbaum, "You interested in moving from four to one?''
"Sure,'' said Tannenbaum. "What else are you going to give me for it?''

id like to think if we did get any type of offer from the jets, kubiak and co. would've forced asserley to take it (after settling on mario- with d'brick as our emergency pick)

Double Barrel
07-06-2007, 06:49 PM
Mario and Reggie were the top two prospects on the Texans draft board. Reggie held out, and there was no guarantee at the time that Mario would fall to us at #4 or beyond.

Hindsight being 20/20, we can all be great GMs. (and the fact that it's all speculation as to where teams ranked players, other than a few quote nuggets, plays no small part in trying to analyze previous drafts.)

I think the 'truth' is more about Casserly trying to work the impossible deal than it was we were offered viable trades. Like Vinny has said many times, it was a very deep draft, so teams did not have to work as hard or make huge deals to get some great talent.

Overalls
07-06-2007, 07:44 PM
And the legend grows to 3 1st rounders.

the wonger need food
07-06-2007, 07:59 PM
On the post draft thing they have on Channel 13, McNair and Casserly were on. When asked about trade offers, they said the Jets offered them the two firsts, and a mid round pick, but they wanted a 2nd rounder thrown in, which didn't happen.

I heard that Jets offered Jonathan Vilma, (5) 1st round picks and a percentage of the team's ownership. Man I hate Charley Casserly.

Maddict5
07-07-2007, 05:15 AM
I heard that Jets offered Jonathan Vilma, (5) 1st round picks and a percentage of the team's ownership. Man I hate Charley Casserly.


BS man..

it was jon vilma, kerry rhodes, 2 1st rounders, a meadowlands goalpost, the rights to all and any cameo appearances in the soprano's, and a box of crayons

casserly sucks!:wild:

The1ApplePie
07-07-2007, 09:03 AM
Whatever the deal was, it was idiotic not to make a trade with the Jets. Even an extra fourth would have been good. We still get Mario and pay him a lot less. Not bad for a cap strapped team.

Bush, VY, Lienart, D'Brick, AJ Hawk were all bigger needs than DE, and all much better college players than Mario. I never saw the point of wasting the 1st overall pick on a mediocre college player with good combine stats, but I guess that is why I am not a GM.:gun:

the wonger need food
07-07-2007, 10:01 AM
Bush, VY, Lienart, D'Brick, AJ Hawk were all bigger needs than DE, and all much better college players than Mario. I never saw the point of wasting the 1st overall pick on a mediocre college player with good combine stats, but I guess that is why I am not a GM.:gun:

Wrong again. At the time they did not need a QB, 3rd down back or MLB. They had players in place to fill those positions at the time. LT certainly was a position of need at the time, but DE was the teams biggest need and that position is one of the highest paid and most coveted positions in the NFL. It certainly isn't running back, especially scatback. Since you've turned this thread into a lesson in revisionists history let's try to interject at least a few facts. First off, Vince Young was not rated at the top QB on many boards. If Tennessee didn't take him at 3 he possibly falls out of the top 10. I realize that it's fun to look back at him as the best QB prospect to ever enter the NFL draft, however that's just not the case.

Yeah, everyone here is an NFL GM in their own mind. It's easy to second-guess people that have to actually make the decisions.

The1ApplePie
07-07-2007, 10:30 AM
With Weaver, Babin, and TJ, a ton of money was already in the D-Line. Peek was a situational pass rusher. End wasn't great, but it wasn't the biggest need either.

The RB was an injured guy that was used up even before the injury. DD was nothing more than a scat back as well.

QB did have Carr locked up, and at the time, there was a chance that Kubes teaching could make him better.

LT, we all know the problem there

MLB Can you name one of the starters at MLB during the Capers run? With the system switch, new LBs needed to be added both inside and out.

If you have huge holes at key positions (QB, LT, RB, MLB are more important than DE), it seems like those would take priority over a luxury pick/ project player, who again, was mediocre in college, but was expected to dominate in the NFL.

Texans_Chick
07-07-2007, 10:40 AM
Whatever the deal was, it was idiotic not to make a trade with the Jets. Even an extra fourth would have been good. We still get Mario and pay him a lot less. Not bad for a cap strapped team.

Bush, VY, Lienart, D'Brick, AJ Hawk were all bigger needs than DE, and all much better college players than Mario. I never saw the point of wasting the 1st overall pick on a mediocre college player with good combine stats, but I guess that is why I am not a GM.:gun:

Rumors at the time suggested that Williams was going to go to New Orleans at 2. He thought he was going to go to New Orleans, and when he was doing team visits, had spent two days in New Orleans.

To call Mario Williams a mediocre player with good combine stats is revisionist history. Most of the nice articles about Williams were put together before the draft--after the draft, a bunch of people who never saw him play wrote some nasty stuff because he wasn't VY/Bush.

For example, he is not the same style of player as Julius Peppers, he did come out of the same conference. Do you find both of their sets of stats mediocre:

Career stats:

Mario Williams: 126 solo tackles / 25 1/2 sacks / 55 1/2 tackles for loss

Julius Peppers: 128 solo tackles / 30 1/2 sacks / 53 tackles for loss

Their junior stats are pretty similar too:

Mario Williams: 62 tackles, 14.5 sacks, 2 forced fumbles, 1 blocked kick, 1 safety, 4 fumble recoveries, 27.5 tackles for loss

Julius Peppers: 63 tackles, 9.5 sacks, 1 forced fumble and 3 interceptions, including one returned for a touchdown.

Oh, and Mario Williams is a TRUE junior and not a redshirt junior so he's getting these stats at a younger age. And he had three different defensive coordinators who asked him to do different things.

Idiotic not to trade with the Jets? You can only make the trade if the trade is there. As you said, you could still get a good player at 4, so why would anyone trade away their entire draft if you can still get a good player at 4?

In switching to the 4-3, a real 4-3 defensive end was a premium position and not one that is easy to get in free agency.

The1ApplePie
07-07-2007, 10:51 AM
AJ Hawk was going to be the pick according to Payton (but yeah there were rumors before the draft).

As far as Mario being a mediocre college player, he was. He built all his monster stats again teams like Duke and Junior colleges, but when it came to real colleges, he got destroyed and turned into a non factor. D'Brick clowning him and tossing him around like a blocking bag was one of D'Brick's highlights.

Teams feared Manny Lawson and doubled him far more than Mario.

The difference between he and Peppers is that Peppers actually had technique to go along with his physical gifts. Meaning that if he couldn't physically out match a guy, he could still beat him. Where as Mario depends totally on his gifts to get by. If he can bullrush the guy, he'll be great. If the OT can match him physically, Mario does nothing.

Of Mario's 14.5 sacks, 1.5 actually came from any real opposition, the rest were from cupcake teams.

Joe Texan
07-07-2007, 11:02 AM
For all you pitiful VY Reggie Crybabbies, I have something you might find hard to choke down but it is the absolute truth. They are the enemy and thats that. Remember, Vince signed the line when Bud the Dud stuck the paper in his face, just as Arron did When Jerra stuck the papers in his face. So quit teasing us :gun: and pull the trigger already.

Texans_Chick
07-07-2007, 11:07 AM
AJ Hawk was going to be the pick according to Payton (but yeah there were rumors before the draft).

As far as Mario being a mediocre college player, he was. He built all his monster stats again teams like Duke and Junior colleges, but when it came to real colleges, he got destroyed and turned into a non factor. D'Brick clowning him and tossing him around like a blocking bag was one of D'Brick's highlights.

Teams feared Manny Lawson and doubled him far more than Mario.

The difference between he and Peppers is that Peppers actually had technique to go along with his physical gifts. Meaning that if he couldn't physically out match a guy, he could still beat him. Where as Mario depends totally on his gifts to get by. If he can bullrush the guy, he'll be great. If the OT can match him physically, Mario does nothing.

Of Mario's 14.5 sacks, 1.5 actually came from any real opposition, the rest were from cupcake teams.

You gotta link on AJ Hawk to New Orleans, cuz I never saw it and I looked.

The two main complaints about Peppers prior to his draft is that he took plays off and that he got his stats against teams like the Citadel.

Here's some writing from people who actually saw Williams play in college:

link (http://blogs.chron.com/fanblogtexans/2006/06/mario_williams_compendium_part_1.html)

As for fear of Lawson instead of Williams--well, Williams was named MVP of the team, so I am guessing that's how they saw things.

This is what Manny Lawson said about Mario (http://blogs.chron.com/fanblogtexans/2006/06/the_ultimate_mario_williams_co_1.html): "His numbers were great, but if people think they were down at all it's because every team we played ran the ball away from him. Teams were scared to death of Mario."

the wonger need food
07-07-2007, 11:09 AM
With Weaver, Babin, and TJ, a ton of money was already in the D-Line. Peek was a situational pass rusher. End wasn't great, but it wasn't the biggest need either.

The RB was an injured guy that was used up even before the injury. DD was nothing more than a scat back as well.

QB did have Carr locked up, and at the time, there was a chance that Kubes teaching could make him better.

LT, we all know the problem there

MLB Can you name one of the starters at MLB during the Capers run? With the system switch, new LBs needed to be added both inside and out.

If you have huge holes at key positions (QB, LT, RB, MLB are more important than DE), it seems like those would take priority over a luxury pick/ project player, who again, was mediocre in college, but was expected to dominate in the NFL.


DE was a huge need. Again, it is one of the most coveted and highest paid positions in the NFL.

Domanick was an every down back. Reggie is a scatback that can't run between the tackles and is more of a pass catcher than a true running back.

Jamie Sharper, Jay Foreman, Kailee Wong, Morlon Greenwood all played inside LB for Capers. Sam Cowart and Wali Rainer were signed last offseason to play MLB.

aj.
07-07-2007, 12:10 PM
Domanick was an every down back.

I would re-phrase that as "Domanick was being used like he was an every down back."

I think the shortness of his career proved that he wasn't an every down back - and he probably would have been better served as the 3rd down back/return specialist he was scouted to be coming out of LSU.

You can argue genetics if you want, but I think those 370 touches in '04 played a role in accelerating the end of his NFL career.

Vinny
07-07-2007, 12:20 PM
I would re-phrase that as "Domanick was being used like he was an every down back."

I think the shortness of his career proved that he wasn't an every down back - and he probably would have been better served as the 3rd down back/return specialist he was scouted to be coming out of LSU.

You can argue genetics if you want, but I think those 370 touches in '04 played a role in accelerating the end of his NFL career.

totally agree with this.

Specnatz
07-07-2007, 02:24 PM
Whatever the deal was, it was idiotic not to make a trade with the Jets. Even an extra fourth would have been good. We still get Mario and pay him a lot less. Not bad for a cap strapped team.

Bush, VY, Lienart, D'Brick, AJ Hawk were all bigger needs than DE, and all much better college players than Mario. I never saw the point of wasting the 1st overall pick on a mediocre college player with good combine stats, but I guess that is why I am not a GM.:gun:

Ladies and Gentilman we have a winner for the best post of the year in the catagory of how to be a worst GM than Charlie Casserly.

Congratz.

Speech! Speech!

The1ApplePie
07-07-2007, 03:03 PM
Ladies and Gentilman we have a winner for the best post of the year in the catagory of how to be a worst GM than Charlie Casserly.

Congratz.

Speech! Speech!

Yeah. Helping out the cap by getting the guy you want 3 spots later with an extra pick would be stupid.

Use the pick on D'Brick, draft Anderson with the 4th rounder, and get a better pass rusher and a solid LT.

Double Barrel
07-07-2007, 03:09 PM
Has it ever occurred to you that Mario is who the head coach wanted? Interesting thought...they drafted who they wanted. :hmmm:

Maddict5
07-07-2007, 04:23 PM
Yeah. Helping out the cap by getting the guy you want 3 spots later with an extra pick would be stupid.

Use the pick on D'Brick, draft Anderson with the 4th rounder, and get a better pass rusher and a solid LT.

and use our 7th rounder on colston right? oh and sign drew brees in FA etc etc:gun:

Maddict5
07-07-2007, 04:31 PM
As far as Mario being a mediocre college player, he was. He built all his monster stats again teams like Duke and Junior colleges

Of Mario's 14.5 sacks, 1.5 actually came from any real opposition, the rest were from cupcake teams.

and who did peppers get his stats against in college again?? great hindsight though

TexansSeminole
07-08-2007, 04:05 PM
About Mario: When I saw him play in Tallahassee against the Noles we (FSU) were absolutely afraid of him. We ran to his side I think 3 times and didn't pick up any yardage. He was terrorizing our offensive line the entire game. We lost that game BTW. That's about as much I saw of Mario in college.

the wonger need food
07-08-2007, 04:17 PM
About Mario: When I saw him play in Tallahassee against the Noles we (FSU) were absolutely afraid of him. We ran to his side I think 3 times and didn't pick up any yardage. He was terrorizing our offensive line the entire game. We lost that game BTW. That's about as much I saw of Mario in college.

Why would you bring personal observations into this discussion? We need to realize that most NFL fans base their opinions on whatever ESPN and/or other media outlets tell them to think so bringing facts, observations, stats, etc. into the conversation is useless in a lot of cases. ESPN said that Mario was not a good college player so there is no reason to argue the contrary because they are the "leaders in sports" or whatever they claim.