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View Full Version : Is it strange to you that Reggie Bush is talking ethics to NFL rookies


nunusguy
06-25-2007, 08:30 AM
Reggie Bush and Will Smith will be among the featured speakers this week when the NFL's rookie class gets together for a four-day cram session at the 11th annual rookie symposium.
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Off-field conduct is always discussed at length during the symposium. But it will certainly be stressed even more this year, with new Commissioner Roger Goodell's crackdown on such issues.
League spokesman Dan Masonson said Goodell will speak to the rookies and likely take some questions Monday morning.
http://www.nola.com/saints/t-p/index.ssf?/base/sports-3/11826675359710.xml&coll=1
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This is very wierd to me when you consider that Bush's alma mata USC didn't even want him on the sidelines earlier this year because of the NCAA investigation involving Bush, his family, & agent re his amateur status while at USC. To me its kinda like Paris Hilton given lectures on social conduct ?
If Goodell really wants the NFL to have a squeaker-clean image, what's he doing rolling Bush out to talk ethics/conduct to the leagues latest rookie class ?

The1ApplePie
06-25-2007, 08:37 AM
First, Reggie did what every good athlete does in college (get free stuff)

Second, it was his stepdad that did all the crap.

Bush hasn't done anything to hurt the NFL since he has been there, and gives back to his community.

Il_Bruno
06-25-2007, 08:47 AM
sure he's been caught up in some stuff but i dont think we have to go out of our way to villify him. Maybe he isnt the cleanest player in the league but its not like he's a total scumbag like pacman.


plus, everyone knows him so it does more for the rooks i guess to have a young stud tell them that stuff. Bush is new orleans, we dont have to hate him until we play them this coming season :fans:

swtbound07
06-25-2007, 08:58 AM
sure he's been caught up in some stuff but i dont think we have to go out of our way to villify him. Maybe he isnt the cleanest player in the league but its not like he's a total scumbag like pacman.


plus, everyone knows him so it does more for the rooks i guess to have a young stud tell them that stuff. Bush is new orleans, we dont have to hate him until we play them this coming season :fans:

1) Reggie Bush isn't a STUD by any stretch of the imagination, both imaginary and statistical

2) Reggie bush is in fact a total scumbag. Free House much?

3)Everyone knows him because ESPN decided it was so.

4) Reggie Bush on ethics has just about as much benefit as George Bush on public speaking.

Il_Bruno
06-25-2007, 09:01 AM
1) Reggie Bush isn't a STUD by any stretch of the imagination, both imaginary and statistical

2) Reggie bush is in fact a total scumbag. Free House much?

3)Everyone knows him because ESPN decided it was so.

4) Reggie Bush on ethics has just about as much benefit as George Bush on public speaking.


i didnt mean he's a stud as in he's LaDainian, not even close. Its just EVERYONE knows who he is, mostly because he went to USC and was a part of that insane hype machine, but i really dont think he's as bad as everyone on this board makes him out to be, ethics-wise. (the jury is still out on wether he can be a franchise back or not, cause right now its deuce)

your #4 was pretty funny, but i dont think its THAT bad :whip:

Texan_Bill
06-25-2007, 09:02 AM
1) Reggie Bush isn't a STUD by any stretch of the imagination, both imaginary and statistical

2) Reggie bush is in fact a total scumbag. Free House much?

3)Everyone knows him because ESPN decided it was so.

4) Reggie Bush on ethics has just about as much benefit as George Bush on public speaking.

Spot on SWT..... Spot on!!

nunusguy
06-25-2007, 09:03 AM
Maybe he isnt the cleanest player in the league

That's definitely my point here. His background is controversial given the investigation which is still ongoing by the NCAA.
How many players are drafted every year ? 250 or something like that ?
I can think of so many other players who were rookies last year whos character is categorically clean without controversity and nothing but positive vibes.
Just seems odd for Bushs appearance to get the OK by Goodell's office, given what a hard-ass he is on the conduct & image thing of his NFL players ?

Il_Bruno
06-25-2007, 09:06 AM
That's definitely my point here. His background is controversial given the investigation which is still ongoing by the NCAA.
How many players are drafted every year ? 250 or something like that ?
I can think of so many other players who were rookies last year whos character is categorically clean without controversity and nothing but positive vibes.
Just seems odd for Bushs appearance to get the OK by Goodell's office, given what a hard-ass he is on conduct & image thing of his NFLs players ?


Bush got the ok because he's reggie bush. He is the golden boy and will always be treated as so. I think they shouldve gotten his rookie teammate Colston, cause more rookies can relate to a late-round guy then they can to a huge college star in reggie bush.

Im just saying he's not as bad as everyone makes him out to be. He's no Tank Johnson or Pacman Jones.

Texan_Bill
06-25-2007, 09:09 AM
Bush got the ok because he's reggie bush. He is the golden boy and will always be treated as so. I think they shouldve gotten his rookie teammate Colston, cause more rookies can relate to a late-round guy then they can to a huge college star in reggie bush.

Im just saying he's not as bad as everyone makes him out to be. He's no Tank Johnson or Pacman Jones.

Marc and Andre were talking to Adam Wexler this morning, and they said the same thing...

The1ApplePie
06-25-2007, 09:30 AM
1) Reggie Bush isn't a STUD by any stretch of the imagination, both imaginary and statistical

2) Reggie bush is in fact a total scumbag. Free House much?

3)Everyone knows him because ESPN decided it was so.

4) Reggie Bush on ethics has just about as much benefit as George Bush on public speaking.

1. He's more of a stud that the guy drafted before him.

2. Most elite college guys get free cars, hookers, and drugs

3. There is a trophy that he won, forgot the name.

4. See 1-3

swtbound07
06-25-2007, 09:41 AM
1. He's more of a stud that the guy drafted before him.

2. Most elite college guys get free cars, hookers, and drugs

3. There is a trophy that he won, forgot the name.

4. See 1-3



1) Not so much. If you quantify reggie bush's value mathmatically by his VORP (Value over replacement player) in New Orleans, then run Mario Williams through the same numbers in houston, you find that Mario is actually 3.6 percent more valuable to his team at his position then reggie is at his own. I'll break it down if you like, but something tells me math hurts your head

2) Doesn't make it right, or ETHICAL, i.e. discussion of this thread.

3) So did the Legendary Jason White. Twice.

4) I award you no points. At no time during this rambling, incoherent reggie bush love fest did you make any coherent arguements whatsoever. May God have mercy on your soul.


*Edited to add....Im being nice...i didn't even attack the typo in your first "point"

Texan_Bill
06-25-2007, 09:50 AM
1. He's more of a stud that the guy drafted before him.

2. Most elite college guys get free cars, hookers, and drugs

3. There is a trophy that he won, forgot the name.

4. See 1-3

1. That jury is still out as far as most people are concerned.

2. That's a ringing endorsement. I am sure there a lot of good guys out there that would be insulted by that.

3. The same trophy that Andre Ware, Danny Weurfel, Rashaam Salaam won??

4. See 1-3

The1ApplePie
06-25-2007, 10:41 AM
Don't really care what the VORP is. There is no way that 4.5 sacks is even in the same range as 1200 plus total yards and 9 TDs.

As far as ethics, yeah he did some stupid crap in college, with his family doing worse, but its no unusual for that to happen in college. The charity work he has done since comming to the NFL should wipe that out.

He didn't need ESPN to hype him. Who heard of Mario Williams before ESPN? The man wasn't even the best player on his own D-Line. It wasn't until he got combine warriored up in the hype machine than anyone cared.

swtbound07, I do appreciate the Billy Madison quote though.

real
06-25-2007, 11:01 AM
I think Reggie is a good candidate for this task. He's popular, well spoken and pretty good charisma....

If their goal is to try and get the incoming rookies to realize that 'thug life' will not be tolerated then I don't see how he's not a good choice...

Reggie isn't a guy that you hear about in the media regarding late night antics, strip club adventures, doing excessive speeds in his Lambo....Basically he hasn't done anything that could jeopordize his Career....

I don't see what's so wrong about Reggie giving some insight about how to conduct yourself as a first year rookie and giving some pittfalls to avoid...even in the article it leads you to believe that they are stressing the importance of staying out of legal drama and bad off-field situations...

Off-field conduct is always discussed at length during the symposium. But it will certainly be stressed even more this year, with new Commissioner Roger Goodell's crackdown on such issues.

And I don't think Marques Colston was a better choice...I think someone like Reggie would have more insight because he is much more poplular...so therefore he'd probably have more exsposure to situations and people that could have led him astray...Reggie is a big name guy, and his words on how to conduct yourself as a young rookie coming out will carry more weight than Marques Colston. It's just a lot of paranoid Houston fans that think the 'media' is always pushing Bush to the forefront because of some sick agenda. I don't understand that logic because I can't see why they'd have more stock in Reggie than any other athlete who is immensely popular.

And that little blemish on Reggie's background will probably give him some credibility with the incoming rookies.

swtbound07
06-25-2007, 12:14 PM
I was the Mod for the Saints Black&Gold Nation before it crashed and burned, despite Vinny's valiant efforts to help save it back in 2004. That's how I've come to know you guys and this place. I pulled Vinny in to help me when doom loomed. I ended up staying here because of the good people and friends.

I still know a few people with the Saints. Did it ever occur to anyone that one of the reasons Reggie is doing as much as he can, like this ethics seminar, because he needs to so Goodell doesn't wipe the floor with him for **** that other people did, and benefitted from, while taking advantage and potentially ruining his NFL career??? Or, even better, maybe Reggie isn't a scumbag. Just a kid that people hooked on to in order to better their own lives.
Food for thought, guys.


"You are the master of your own destiny" -fortune cookie i once ate


Soon as i saw your name, I had a feeling you were going to defind the saint...I didn't see him turning down the stuff. He's culpable. I don't buy the naive and innocent schtick. I'm calling him pond scum...charitable work isn't an eraser. Leonard little could rescue orphaned kittens from now unto eternity and he would still suck at life. Pac-man jones is out there supporting single mothers every single night and raining kindness on them, and nobody defends him! Screw reggie bush. He deserves what he gets.

Yankee_In_TX
06-25-2007, 12:20 PM
Anyone else noticing it's the offseason?

BTW, NFL network RULES! it was weird, watching the games in 1.5 hours. Snap to snap to snap.

swtbound07
06-25-2007, 12:23 PM
Come on, SWT. Reggie hasn't been sentenced by the Commish. He may never be.
Think about it. You're a stud running back at USC. Your family lives in town. Great. But, you are still the stud at school. How much time did you think he put into details. like that rent? Someone else was handleing business...and badly. But, to say a 19 year old kid engineered a massive scam while being LA's golden boy is like saying I'm a Texan Cheerleader. Pretty far fetched.

And yeah...you know I'm going to defend the Saint. Comes with the territory.

It's like that line from Brokeback Mountain..."I can't quit you." Thinking I can quit the Saints is very unrealistic.

doesn't have to be to be crucified by me

He wasn't a stud at anything. You are also responsible for the people that represent you. Should he have asked how his broke ass parents were living in that big ass house...yeah..i'd imagine it should have sparked a thought in his head. As far as im concerned, Reggie is 1A on the 5 professional athletes that need to be hit by a train list.

Specnatz
06-25-2007, 12:34 PM
First, Reggie did what every good athlete does in college (get free stuff)

Second, it was his stepdad that did all the crap.

Bush hasn't done anything to hurt the NFL since he has been there, and gives back to his community.

I did not know you lived in cali and were at the house and know who did what. I am may not know everything my family does but I can sure bet I would wonder if they started living in a $500,000 home.

Oh yeah and not every person in college does this. Not every great athlete does this. Only people without class not those with it like barry sanders, joe montana, emmitt smith and many more but then you have chris webber and reggie who have none and makes all college athletes look bad.

Texan_Bill
06-25-2007, 12:36 PM
Freshmen entering school on scholarships are made very aware of the rules and what can be deemed as violations. So, as far as RB is concerned - that's no defense for him.

real
06-25-2007, 12:46 PM
Oh yeah and not every person in college does this. Not every great athlete does this. Only people without class not those with it like barry sanders, joe montana, emmitt smith and many more but then you have chris webber and reggie who have none and makes all college athletes look bad.

I guess you're just a bit more holier than ther rest of us...

You're praising those guys and calling them stand up citizens and you don't know anything about them past what you've seen on T.V. For all you know those guys could have a dirt trail longer than here to New York.

Everyone makes mistakes, and this guy came from a background which was less than extravagant and you guys condemn him and call him a despicable human being for some less than stellar choices that he made as a 19 yr old boy ?

You guys should really save the the angst for murderers and child molestors...this guy SUPPOSEDLY broke some bogus rule about college athletes not getting compensation...AKA he helped his family live better...

It's really nothing more than the classic Im a Texans fan so I hate Reggie syndrome.

swtbound07
06-25-2007, 12:51 PM
I guess you're just a bit more holier than ther rest of us...

You're praising those guys and calling them stand up citizens and you don't know anything about them past what you've seen on T.V. For all you know those guys could have a dirt trail longer than here to New York.

Everyone makes mistakes, and this guy came from a background which was less than extravagant and you guys condemn him and call him a despicable human being for some less than stellar choices that he made as a 19 yr old boy ?

You guys should really save the the angst for murderers and child molestors...this guy SUPPOSEDLY broke some bogus rule about college athletes not getting compensation...AKA he helped his family live better...

It's really nothing more than the classic Im a Texans fan so I hate Reggie syndrome.

no..its holding everyone to the same standards and not making excuses for an *******. you might not agree with the rule, but its a rule. At 19, your old enough not to suck at life.

real
06-25-2007, 12:57 PM
no..its holding everyone to the same standards and not making excuses for an *******. you might not agree with the rule, but its a rule. At 19, your old enough not to suck at life.

No...It's condemning someone from a far without enough facts. At 19 young men make a lot of choices that they may not make later in life. Of course regular guys like me and you may not be able to relate to a mistake (if indeed it was a mistake on his part) of this magnitutde simply because we weren't star runningbacks at USC, so therefore we weren't afforded the opprotunity.

The guy put his family in a better situation. I agree that laws are laws and rules are rules, but I'm not going to sit here and act like I'm perfect and haven't broken a few laws or rules in my lifetime.

Tulip
06-25-2007, 12:57 PM
OK - I'll be brave enough to say it.

I think Vince Young would have been an excellent choice. Not only because he's had to make the choices between the bad crowd and football in the past, but because he also has the perspective of teammate of an extremely talented player who can't play football because of his bad personal choices.

The1ApplePie
06-25-2007, 01:00 PM
If you were 19 and could help your family live a better life, you wouldn't do it?

Schools cheat guys through class and get them money under the table if they need it. Even top level high school players can get their parents better houses and jobs with the help of boosters. That's the way things work, like it or not. Not saying everybody does it, but Reggie sure is hell isn't the first.

Its not like he hurt his school, or was point shaving or something to hurt the sport.

real
06-25-2007, 01:02 PM
OK - I'll be brave enough to say it.

I think Vince Young would have been an excellent choice. Not only because he's had to make the choices between the bad crowd and football in the past, but because he also has the perspective of teammate of an extremely talented player who can't play football because of his bad personal choices.

I don't disagree with you on that one.

Texan_Bill
06-25-2007, 01:05 PM
OK - I'll be brave enough to say it.

I think Vince Young would have been an excellent choice. Not only because he's had to make the choices between the bad crowd and football in the past, but because he also has the perspective of teammate of an extremely talented player who can't play football because of his bad personal choices.

As much as I hate to admit it and as much as I am NOT blinded from wearing VY's jock strap as an eye patch, I will say that he would have been a much better choice...

swtbound07
06-25-2007, 01:06 PM
If you were 19 and could help your family live a better life, you wouldn't do it?

Schools cheat guys through class and get them money under the table if they need it. Even top level high school players can get their parents better houses and jobs with the help of boosters. That's the way things work, like it or not. Not saying everybody does it, but Reggie sure is hell isn't the first.

Its not like he hurt his school, or was point shaving or something to hurt the sport.

you can't purchase someone's integrity. Either they give it away or they don't. Everyone else jumped off a cliff, etc.

swtbound07
06-25-2007, 01:21 PM
A much better choice for whom? The Saints? Vince is Lilly White, as far as we all know NOW, so he was better than Reggie? Time seems to tell with incoming NFL players, so watch who you deem a better choice.

If Sean Peyton didn't think he could snatch Reggie, clean up this already known mess, and move forward, rather quickly, with a great team, he never would have bolted from his location the night before the draft, with his staff, talking 2nd round picks, when he was informed that Houston took Mario only moments before. He never would have made the move. From his location or his pick.

Jeez...the Saints put this entire RENT stage production out of their minds before they took him. Considering they had Deuce, Horn and Colsten, they don't need VY. They needed someone a little less selfish that VY, who is just like Vick, who will put that ball where it needs to be instead of trying to play all 11 positions at once. Brees hands off, throws and scrambles, unlike "I'm the team, VY."

Like I said. My information may seem debatable, but, well, I just have way too many telephone numbers and friends around to post this like it's a pig flying out of my ass.:cowboy1:

he meant a much better choice to speak to rookies about ethics.

Texan_Bill
06-25-2007, 01:46 PM
A much better choice for whom? The Saints? Vince is Lilly White, as far as we all know NOW, so he was better than Reggie? Time seems to tell with incoming NFL players, so watch who you deem a better choice.

If Sean Peyton didn't think he could snatch Reggie, clean up this already known mess, and move forward, rather quickly, with a great team, he never would have bolted from his location the night before the draft, with his staff, talking 2nd round picks, when he was informed that Houston took Mario only moments before. He never would have made the move. From his location or his pick.

Jeez...the Saints put this entire RENT stage production out of their minds before they took him. Considering they had Deuce, Horn and Colsten, they don't need VY. They needed someone a little less selfish that VY, who is just like Vick, who will put that ball where it needs to be instead of trying to play all 11 positions at once. Brees hands off, throws and scrambles, unlike "I'm the team, VY."

Like I said. My information may seem debatable, but, well, I just have way too many telephone numbers and friends around to post this like it's a pig flying out of my ass.:cowboy1:

Sorry Elle, this conversation has nothing to do with performances, draft needs, positions etc. on the field. It has everything to do with molding and mentoring rookies and giving them a solid base as to not "make it rain" with their new found wealth. As far as we all know (again - it pains me to say this), YES, VY is lilly white. I have never heard of anything that he got in trouble for. In fact, the only dirt on him was his wonderlic score and that only made for some fun fodder with my T'Sip friends.

The point is, the NFL should choose people that dont have any controversy surrounding them. I would have chose VY because of the name recognition AND the fact that he has no controversy attached with him.

The only thing I ever said negative (and this was ages ago) is that I though Reggie Bush was over-rated. I said that when the 'Sips and VY punked him in the Rose Bowl.

Texan_Bill
06-25-2007, 01:47 PM
he meant a much better choice to speak to rookies about ethics.

YUP... thats what I meant. Thanks SWT.

Immobilarity
06-25-2007, 01:52 PM
Only posting to cosign with Il Bruno in that Colston would have been a much better choice over Bush, simply because he is much more relatable to the common NFL rookie given his status.

Texan_Bill
06-25-2007, 02:02 PM
Only posting to cosign with Il Bruno in that Colston would have been a much better choice over Bush, simply because he is much more relatable to the common NFL rookie given his status.

See, thats a good point too. Most guys aren't high profile guys comin' into the league like VY or RB were...

Il_Bruno
06-25-2007, 02:08 PM
A much better choice for whom? The Saints? Vince is Lilly White, as far as we all know NOW, so he was better than Reggie? Time seems to tell with incoming NFL players, so watch who you deem a better choice.

If Sean Peyton didn't think he could snatch Reggie, clean up this already known mess, and move forward, rather quickly, with a great team, he never would have bolted from his location the night before the draft, with his staff, talking 2nd round picks, when he was informed that Houston took Mario only moments before. He never would have made the move. From his location or his pick.

Jeez...the Saints put this entire RENT stage production out of their minds before they took him. Considering they had Deuce, Horn and Colsten, they don't need VY. They needed someone a little less selfish that VY, who is just like Vick, who will put that ball where it needs to be instead of trying to play all 11 positions at once. Brees hands off, throws and scrambles, unlike "I'm the team, VY."

Like I said. My information may seem debatable, but, well, I just have way too many telephone numbers and friends around to post this like it's a pig flying out of my ass.:cowboy1:



Its ok elle, take a breath...

just sayin they think VY would be a better choice to talk to rookies as has been said by people before me.

Everything ive heard about VY indicates that he is not selfish but had extremely good character, and he has a certain "it" leadership that rubs off. Mightve done the new guys some good perhaps?

but like i said, Bush isnt as bad as some people make him out to be. A Saint? well technically yes :shades: but all puns aside no, he's not perfect, and yes, there are better choices out there.

That said, i dont see anything wrong with him trying to clean up his image at all.


and thanks to immobilarity and Texan Bill for supporting my views on Colston, makes more sense as he relates to more people coming in (not certain where, what round, but regardless you go and do your job and stay outta trouble type of guy).

Texan_Bill
06-25-2007, 02:11 PM
Its ok elle, take a breath...

just sayin they think VY would be a better choice to talk to rookies as has been said by people before me.

Everything ive heard about VY indicates that he is not selfish but had extremely good character, and he has a certain "it" leadership that rubs off. Mightve done the new guys some good perhaps?

but like i said, Bush isnt as bad as some people make him out to be. A Saint? well technically yes :shades: but all puns aside no, he's not perfect, and yes, there are better choices out there.

That said, i dont see anything wrong with him trying to clean up his image at all.


and thanks to immobilarity and Texan Bill for supporting my views on Colston, makes more sense as he relates to more people coming in (not certain where, what round, but regardless you go and do your job and stay outta trouble type of guy).

Well, thanks a lot. You just killed this thread, because after your post, there really isn't much more to say....

eric138
06-25-2007, 02:18 PM
Bush was reemed last year for wearing the wrong shoes during a game. He thought he was above the law at USC and he thought he was above the law in the NFL.. bottom line they could have chosen a better Rookie.

Il_Bruno
06-25-2007, 02:21 PM
Well, thanks a lot. You just killed this thread, because after your post, there really isn't much more to say....



i could delete it so everyone can pad their post count a little more :whip:

swtbound07
06-25-2007, 02:28 PM
"You are the master of your own destiny" -fortune cookie i once ate


Soon as i saw your name, I had a feeling you were going to defind the saint...I didn't see him turning down the stuff. He's culpable. I don't buy the naive and innocent schtick. I'm calling him pond scum...charitable work isn't an eraser. Leonard little could rescue orphaned kittens from now unto eternity and he would still suck at life. Pac-man jones is out there supporting single mothers every single night and raining kindness on them, and nobody defends him! Screw reggie bush. He deserves what he gets.

I really thought that joke would go over better than it did...kinda sad about that

Immobilarity
06-25-2007, 02:53 PM
Well when you make it rain I don't think scrambling on the floor trying to get your money back is part of the deal.

Or at least, that's what them music videos have taught me.

Or maybe there was not enough structural support on the set for Fat Joe...

Specnatz
06-25-2007, 03:00 PM
Wait a second....You get upset and offended when accused of being holier than thou, yet you condemn someone you don't even know, don't have sufficient facts about, who may or may not have made a bad choice at the twighlight of his teenage years????....Brilliant...

If your sons, brothers, uncles, daughters or friends ever made a mistake of this kind at that age would you consider them 'dirt bags' as well ?

People make mistakes. Especially 19 yr. old people.

I think you should save the scumbag talk for murders, thieves and pedophiles and realize that 19 yr. old men often make minor mistakes. And besides, we're not talking about an offense punishable by law...we're talking about a freaking NCAA violation...please spare me with the Reggie Bush is the devil talk unless you are Jesus himself.


Now that I have had time to cool off. Yet I am still PO at being called holier than thou. I guess condeming anyone we don't know should never happen, does this include any political figure, pacman or paris hilton? Yes 19 year old men do make mistakes but then they should own up to them. I am not perfect I have made mistakes in my life but I am man enough to say I made a mistake and not if the ncaa calls I just wont answer the phone.

I never called reggie the devil, so why don't you spare me the the unless I am jesus crap. Does this mean you can never ever say anyone is a scumbag ever because you are not jesus or god or muhammad, or who ever your religious figure is.

If anyone in my family did this I would say to there face that it is not being a man and not a team player so the "dirtbag" monicur would fit. I would tell them time to grow up and own up to the mistakes you make. which he has not nor will he do.

I am sorry if my having an opinion is holier than thou and that because I believe that since he has been playing football all his life and knows full well about what that could have caused his school and teammates and he did not care. So he is a selfish bastard and "dirtbag" and I will stand by that.

Texan_Bill
06-25-2007, 03:04 PM
I really thought that joke would go over better than it did...kinda sad about that

Actually that was pretty funny. I guess I missed the first time around...

real
06-25-2007, 03:18 PM
So he is a selfish bastard and "dirtbag" and I will stand by that.

That's fine.

I don't know you, so you may indeed be holier than thou.

I just hope those that care about you aren't as judgemental when you do make mistakes.

And I find it mighty funny that you want a guy to own up to something you're not even 100% sure he was guilty of....BRILLIANT!

I think you should be a man and own up to being holier than thou....I guess mamma was right when she said you don't get everything you want...

Specnatz
06-25-2007, 03:20 PM
That's fine.

I don't know you, so you maybe holier than thou.


You just better not have an opinion on what is right or wrong again in your life because if you do then you are two-faced.

Koolaid Time
06-25-2007, 03:24 PM
Lets see.. what could Reggie teach the rookies?

1. Dont have friends or associates that have either direct or indirect "mob connections." Don't hang around them and don't let them hang around your parents.

2. Don't hire or associate with crooked agents or advisors.

3. If you are dating a woman that makes porn movies that include "showers".. wear "cast iron" protection against STD's...

real
06-25-2007, 03:30 PM
You just better not have an opinion on what is right or wrong again in your life because if you do then you are two-faced.

Naw....I'm just real...

I can actually understand where Mr. Bush is coming from and the pressures that he went through...I also understand that Reggie himself may or may not have had anything to do with any of this, and may have just knew of it...You just lack the understanding, and choose to condemn from the outside looking in....So in that essence I can totally understand your POV...whatever works for ya'....

Was Reggie in the wrong??? According to the NCAA, sure...

But if you label guys scumbags for offenses such as this in which he hasn't put anyone in danger, and hasn't broken any legal laws....be my guest....do you...

Texan_Bill
06-25-2007, 03:34 PM
I'm not here to bash VY or Vick. I'm here to say that Reggie paid the debt that totalled up.

The Lilly White guys? Or the ones who have only been on board a year and have this cloud over their heads? Along with that cloud's implications? If you are 21, who the hell are you going to listen to? Snow White or the guy who got punched by his own family? You DO realize his own family didn't pay for that house. He did, after he got the cash from the Saints.
.

First, I have no problems bashing VY, Ron Mexico or Reggie Bush and try to whenever I can...

Second, if I am 21 and have to listen to someone about staying out of trouble and I know the background of say one VY and how he grew up - personally I would be listening to him. I dont want to know how to disperse a black cloud over my head, I want to hear how to avoid making decisions to have the black cloud over my head to begin with.

Last, since my previous response to you - I have changed to a better choice based on Il Bruno's and Immobality's (is that even a word? lol) posts. Colston would have been a better choice as the majority of rookies wont be high profile (like bush or VY) and would have more in common with a guy like Colston.

Specnatz
06-25-2007, 03:42 PM
Naw....I'm just real...

I can actually understand where Mr. Bush is coming from and the pressures that he went through...I also understand that Reggie himself may or may not have had anything to do with any of this, and may have just knew of it...You just lack the understanding, and choose to condemn from the outside looking in....So in that essence I can totally understand your POV...whatever works for ya'....

Was Reggie in the wrong??? According to the NCAA, sure...

But if you label guys scumbags for offenses such as this in which he hasn't put anyone in danger, and hasn't broken any legal laws....be my guest....do you...

I said "dirtbag" and a selfish bastard. And he is. I am not sure what pressure he is under, anymore than any other athlete in college. It is not like that house put food on the table. There are far more people that are getting scholarships who are hard up more than he is. He did not care about his teammates and he could have cost them a lot and he could have made it so another kid would not get a scholarship to go to usc, sorry in my book that is a pretty good description of a "dirtbag" and selfish.

Hey I guess it is ok to screw the next guy as long as you get what you want, in your book anyway.


Why would Snow White show up to do a job better suited to Shrek?

Jesus.........this is seriously infuriating.


I guess I do not get the referance but who is playing snow white?

Immobilarity
06-25-2007, 03:52 PM
Why would Snow White show up to do a job better suited to Shrek?Fighting dragons may not be Snow White's forte, but you don't know where those sneaky little dwarves are going to be... they're just gangster, I tell ya!

Texan_Bill
06-25-2007, 03:56 PM
Given the shape of the NFL and the length of the police blotters, its ALL a moot point anyway. Guys that know how to keep their nose clean will and guys that like to "make it rain" will also... You can't teach responsibility in 3 days.

Il_Bruno
06-25-2007, 03:57 PM
Well, considerding the Saints got both Bush and Colston, isn't this a moot post? I mean, seriously, what smear does Colston have?(Well, he did cause....oh, nevermind)

The POINT here, gentlemen, and I use that term loosely with many of you, this is a talk about ethics and behaviour once in the NFL. Who best to discuss such matters than someone being investigated? Why would Snow White show up to do a job better suited to Shrek?

Jesus.........this is seriously infuriating.


I think TexanBill was saying someone like Vince Young, who almost had that "smear" on his name but avoided it by staying away from the "wrong" crowd would be more qualified, as he has had a clean record so far. You say it would be better from the point of view of "look, i know my past isnt perfect but heres what you can do to avoid what ive been through..."

Its merely a different opinion on who would be more qualified, thats all. This thread is on a really thin line with you and i understand that, but dont freak out, people are just saying who they think would be more qualified.

swtbound07
06-25-2007, 04:06 PM
You missed the entire premise of my post. VY isn't a good draft choice for NOLA because we had no need for a selfish QB. Additionally, no one has any dirt on VY....YET. Give it time, buddy boy. Seems like NFL players are turning into PLAYAS every day. The Lord only knows who will take a kill shot tomorrow...or the next day....Hell, just start looking at Cinnci's paper. You'll find a couple of more of them in jail within 2 weeks.

I'm sick of kill shots being lobbed at guys trying to do their job. I want one of you...JUST ONE THE **** of you to show me were Reggie isn't doing his JOB and where that debt hasn't ben paid.

SHOW IT.:cowboy1:

Freudian slip???

He can't pay for the debt on USC's program if the investigation leads to them losing national championships.

Il_Bruno
06-25-2007, 04:08 PM
You missed the entire premise of my post. VY isn't a good draft choice for NOLA because we had no need for a selfish QB. Additionally, no one has any dirt on VY....YET. Give it time, buddy boy. Seems like NFL players are turning into PLAYAS every day. The Lord only knows who will take a kill shot tomorrow...or the next day....Hell, just start looking at Cinnci's paper. You'll find a couple of more of them in jail within 2 weeks.

I'm sick of kill shots being lobbed at guys trying to do their job. I want one of you...JUST ONE THE **** of you to show me were Reggie isn't doing his JOB and where that debt hasn't ben paid.

SHOW IT.:cowboy1:


i was never talking about the draft, once the saints got brees young was out of the picture. Its also quite interesting to just go ahead and assume that VY is a scumbag, and liken him to the bengals. the NFL has tons of players that never get negative press, and yet we all tend to think there like the Tank Johnsons and Pacmans of the world.

also if youve read my posts ive actually been on the "defending" side of reggie bush. Ive been saying he's not as bad as some people on this board like to make him out to be, and while he's not perfect he is definetely improving his image and giving back.

but hey, if its your style to swing at everyone involving this issue, even those inclined to agree with you then go ahead. Not sure if your going to keep many friends going down that path :pirate:

real
06-25-2007, 04:12 PM
I said "dirtbag" and a selfish bastard. And he is. I am not sure what pressure he is under, anymore than any other athlete in college. It is not like that house put food on the table. There are far more people that are getting scholarships who are hard up more than he is. He did not care about his teammates and he could have cost them a lot and he could have made it so another kid would not get a scholarship to go to usc, sorry in my book that is a pretty good description of a "dirtbag" and selfish.

Hey I guess it is ok to screw the next guy as long as you get what you want, in your book anyway.


Once again Spec, that's fine. I'm not trying to change your opinion nor anyone elses. I'm just offering my perspective, and from my perspective it doesn't make sense to talk about ''all these'' imaginary athletes that are under the same pressure....that assumption is totally innacurate...

That's like saying you have the same pressures as Mel Gibson, because..."duh...he's a guy...and uhhhhh...Ima guy...."

Once people realize you have the talent to go to the NFL, and especially a player as glorified as Reggie was, all kinds of pressures and pittfalls come your way....Out of all the things that Reggie could have gotten caught up in (that some of these guys who have longer rap sheets than their college transcripts get caught up in) you choose to label him a dirt bag, for some actions he may or may not have been totally knowledgeable about, which ultimately ended up in his mother living a better lifestyle and doesn't break any law, merely NCAA rules....gotcha...

:texflag:

swtbound07
06-25-2007, 04:19 PM
Once again Spec, that's fine. I'm not trying to change your opinion nor anyone elses. I'm just offering my perspective, and from my perspective it doesn't make sense to talk about ''all these'' imaginary athletes that are under the same pressure....that assumption is totally innacurate...

That's like saying you have the same pressures as Mel Gibson, because..."duh...he's a guy...and uhhhhh...Ima guy...."

Once people realize you have the talent to go to the NFL, and especially a player as glorified as Reggie was, all kinds of pressures and pittfalls come your way....Out of all the things that Reggie could have gotten caught up in (that some of these guys who have longer rap sheets than their college transcripts get caught up in) you choose to label him a dirt bag, for some actions he may or may not have been totally knowledgeable about, which ultimately ended up in his mother living a better lifestyle and doesn't break any law, merely NCAA rules....gotcha...

:texflag:

you are the master of your own destiny.

why are people no longer held accountable for their actions and the actions of people around them who represent them? god so many damned excuses.

Mr. White
06-25-2007, 04:21 PM
So are we splitting back up into "Camp Reggie" and "Camp Vince" again?

I think that most of us never really broke camp anyway.

swtbound07
06-25-2007, 04:25 PM
So are we splitting back up into "Camp Reggie" and "Camp Vince" again?

I think that most of us never really broke camp anyway.

nah, can we split into camp reggie and camp screw reggie??? cause im definitely in the 2nd

Specnatz
06-25-2007, 04:25 PM
Once again Spec, that's fine. I'm not trying to change your opinion nor anyone elses. I'm just offering my perspective, and from my perspective it doesn't make sense to talk about ''all these'' imaginary athletes that are under the same pressure....that assumption is totally innacurate...

That's like saying you have the same pressures as Mel Gibson, because..."duh...he's a guy...and uhhhhh...Ima guy...."

Once people realize you have the talent to go to the NFL, and especially a player as glorified as Reggie was, all kinds of pressures and pittfalls come your way....Out of all the things that Reggie could have gotten caught up in (that some of these guys who have longer rap sheets than their college transcripts get caught up in) you choose to label him a dirt bag, for some actions he may or may not have been totally knowledgeable about, which ultimately ended up in his mother living a better lifestyle and doesn't break any law, merely NCAA rules....gotcha...

:texflag:

Yes he could have done worse but what you are saying it is ok to pay kids toplay at usc and or what ever college. It is not illegal for me to go around the F word in front of kids but I am sure you would love it if some guy at the chekcout line at the grocery store used that word or called his girlfriend a "ho" and said "ho" go get me this or "b" go get me that. Hey it is ok because it is not illegal right? It is just really bad manners and poor taste but not illegal.

So much for having morals and doing what the rules say you can do. But it is not illeagal so it is OK!

real
06-25-2007, 04:25 PM
Didn't hear any of you calling Mario a 'dirt bag', scum, a loser or anything of that nature when he was speeding in his Lambo down the highway.

Since we're playing the what if game what if he'd gotten into a major accident and hurt himself...that'd have hurt the fans, the organization, his teammates, his family and his friends...or worse what if he'd have lost control, spun out and killed someone else...

Hmmm...maybe it's cuz he's a young guy and young guys, and people in general, make decisions that aren't always the best in hindsight...

Texan_Bill
06-25-2007, 04:25 PM
why are people no longer held accountable for their actions and the actions of people around them who represent them? god so many damned excuses.
Because there is no repercussions for the athlete. Its the school that would have deal with the aftermath.

Specnatz
06-25-2007, 04:27 PM
Didn't hear any of you calling Mario a 'dirt bag', scum, a loser or anything of that nature when he was speeding in his Lambo down the highway.

Since we're playing the what if game what if he'd gotten into a major accident and hurt himself...that'd have hurt the fans, the organization, his teammates, his family and his friends...or worse what if he'd have lost control, spun out and killed someone else...

Hmmm...maybe it's cuz he's a young guy and young guys, and people in general, make decisions that aren't always the best in hindsight...


I guess you did not read the same thread that the rest of us did.

Texan_Bill
06-25-2007, 04:27 PM
called his girlfriend a "ho" and said "ho" go get me this or "b" go get me that.


Dangit Spec.... I guess that's why I am single now.

real
06-25-2007, 04:35 PM
you are the master of your own destiny.

why are people no longer held accountable for their actions and the actions of people around them who represent them? god so many damned excuses.


What are you talking about? Not being held accountable for their actions ? LOL, give me a break...it's not that serious...he didn't put anyone's life in jeopardy...

If Reggie is indeed guilty and found out, there will be consequences....He will probably publicly apologize...and of course their national title may be in danger...

But of course you guys don't know how his teammates feel about it....My guess is that they're behind him all the way, especially the more talented players who probably recieved a few things on occasion as well....Having been in several locker rooms, teammates tend to stick up for each other, especially college teammates....Some may be upset, but I can almost guarantee a majority could care less if the title was officially stripped because all of them know they were the best team in the land that year...

And as far as hurting the program....

Cry me a river. These programs exploit these players for all these dollars and don't even push to get these players some kinda of monetary reward...All the while everyone gets rich from the admins. to the coaches...

Not an excuse, and wrong is wrong, but I guess I'm just able to understand that this isn't an earth shattering offense...especially not 'dirt bag' worthy...

HOU-TEX
06-25-2007, 04:35 PM
Personally, I would like to see D-Ryans do it. He has adapted to the NFL just as well, if not better, than either one of those two. He's a very intelligent and well spoken young athlete. If I were ever lucky enough to attend one of these, I'd want somebody that I could thoroughly understand. Bush seems well spoken as well, but for some reason I'd rather have D-Ryans talking to the rooks.:texflag:

real
06-25-2007, 04:38 PM
So much for having morals and doing what the rules say you can do. But it is not illeagal so it is OK!

So much for imperfection. I guess it went out of style to make mistakes as a young man.

And no that wouldn't be o.k for someone to use vulgar language in front of my kids, but I wouldn't automatically assume they were scum or dirt because they did.

swtbound07
06-25-2007, 04:42 PM
What are you talking about? Not being held accountable for their actions ? LOL, give me a break...it's not that serious...he didn't put anyone's life in jeopardy...

If Reggie is indeed guilty and found out, there will be consequences....He will probably publicly apologize...and of course their national title may be in danger...

But of course you guys don't know how his teammates feel about it....My guess is that they're behind him all the way, especially the more talented players who probably recieved a few things on occasion as well....Having been in several locker rooms, teammates tend to stick up for each other, especially college teammates....Some may be upset, but I can almost guarantee a majority could care less if the title was officially stripped because all of them know they were the best team in the land that year...

And as far as hurting the program....

Cry me a river. These programs exploit these players for all these dollars and don't even push to get these players some kinda of monetary reward...All the while everyone gets rich from the admins. to the coaches...

Not an excuse, and wrong is wrong, but I guess I'm just able to understand that this isn't an earth shattering offense...especially not 'dirt bag' worthy...



you guys all want to look the other way on stuff, and then be suprised when the system spawns the pac man jones's and tank johnsons of the world. ACCOUNTABILITY. If we start demanding it, maybe **** will get changed.

Texan_Bill
06-25-2007, 04:43 PM
Personally, I would like to see D-Ryans do it. He has adapted to the NFL just as well, if not better, than either one of those two. He's a very intelligent and well spoken young athlete. If I were ever lucky enough to attend one of these, I'd want somebody that I could thoroughly understand. Bush seems well spoken as well, but for some reason I'd rather have D-Ryans talking to the rooks.:texflag:

I like that idea but, apparently he wouldn't work by some opinions.. He's too "Lilly White"

real
06-25-2007, 04:45 PM
I guess you did not read the same thread that the rest of us did.

I find it funny that you are trying to imply that Mario's actions were treated as harshly by this same fanbase, including yourself, as RB's actions were...

Even though more damage could have been done in the speeding Lambo.

Funny.

Specnatz
06-25-2007, 04:47 PM
What are you talking about? Not being held accountable for their actions ? LOL, give me a break...it's not that serious...he didn't put anyone's life in jeopardy...

If Reggie is indeed guilty and found out, there will be consequences....He will probably publicly apologize...and of course their national title may be in danger...

But of course you guys don't know how his teammates feel about it....My guess is that they're behind him all the way, especially the more talented players who probably recieved a few things on occasion as well....Having been in several locker rooms, teammates tend to stick up for each other, especially college teammates....Some may be upset, but I can almost guarantee a majority could care less if the title was officially stripped because all of them know they were the best team in the land that year...

And as far as hurting the program....

Cry me a river. These programs exploit these players for all these dollars and don't even push to get these players some kinda of monetary reward...All the while everyone gets rich from the admins. to the coaches...

Not an excuse, and wrong is wrong, but I guess I'm just able to understand that this isn't an earth shattering offense...especially not 'dirt bag' worthy...


I thought the rewards was being able to goto college, which a lot of these kids would not be able to afford. Darn my bad I forgot that they are entitled to it and that it is not a privalge.

You keep leaving out the fact that a school on probabtion (which is what happens when a player is caught taking money or gifts) is stripped of scholarships, which would goto someone else. So that would hurt someone elses chances that he had, so yes 'drit bag' would fit.

real
06-25-2007, 04:50 PM
you guys all want to look the other way on stuff, and then be suprised when the system spawns the pac man jones's and tank johnsons of the world. ACCOUNTABILITY. If we start demanding it, maybe **** will get changed.

Yeah, because perfection is just around the corner and by making examples out of people it is sure to bring it to a halt.

Wake up and smell the cofee. Reggie Bush's action have no bearing on Tank Johnson or the Pac Mans of the world ending up in jail. How you connect one to the other is beyond me.

For one you all keep condemning a guy that you don't even know 'how guilty it is'....But in the end I guess that small fact doesn't matter seeing as how it IS Reggie Bush and the Texans DID pass on him and ESPN among others DOES clown us for it...

swtbound07
06-25-2007, 04:52 PM
Yeah, because perfection is just around the corner and by making examples out of people it is sure to bring it to a halt.

Wake up and smell the cofee. Reggie Bush's action have no bearing on Tank Johnson or the Pac Mans of the world ending up in jail. How you connect one to the other is beyond me.
For one you all keep condemning a guy that you don't even know 'how guilty it is'....But in the end I guess that small fact doesn't matter seeing as how it IS Reggie Bush and the Texans DID pass on him and ESPN among others DOES clown us for it...

Its the system of entitlement that creates the players you see today. If you can't grasp that simple correlation, i can't do much for you. For the record, I hated Reggie in college. Hated the bastard long before he was drafted.

Texan_Bill
06-25-2007, 04:55 PM
Yeah, because perfection is just around the corner and by making examples out of people it is sure to bring it to a halt.

Wake up and smell the cofee. Reggie Bush's action have no bearing on Tank Johnson or the Pac Mans of the world ending up in jail. How you connect one to the other is beyond me.

For one you all keep condemning a guy that you don't even know 'how guilty it is'....But in the end I guess that small fact doesn't matter seeing as how it IS Reggie Bush and the Texans DID pass on him and ESPN among others DOES clown us for it...

Okay.. maybe Pac and Tank were bad examples. Let's use a more white collar example... Sean Jones?!?

Texan_Bill
06-25-2007, 04:56 PM
For the record, I hated Reggie in college. Hated the bastard long before he was drafted. It's alright to let it go.. Tell us how you feel without sugar coating it this time.

:stirpot:

real
06-25-2007, 04:57 PM
I thought the rewards was being able to goto college, which a lot of these kids would not be able to afford. Darn my bad I forgot that they are entitled to it and that it is not a privalge.

You keep leaving out the fact that a school on probabtion (which is what happens when a player is caught taking money or gifts) is stripped of scholarships, which would goto someone else. So that would hurt someone elses chances that he had, so yes 'drit bag' would fit.


LOL....you have no idea how much goes into, or what being a college football player is about....

And I just totally LMAO at your second paragraph....Que the sad violin music and light the candles...Specnatz has a story to tell...You first make implications that they aren't entitled to go to college then you whine about some imaginary, totally made up, probably never to become reality fantasy kid that doesn't get to go to USC....ahhhh, pooh....

swtbound07
06-25-2007, 04:58 PM
It's alright to let it go.. Tell us how you feel without sugar coating it this time.

:stirpot:

i hope he gets hit by a train, and accidentally irreversible maims barry bonds, michelle wie, rex grossman, and carlos beltran on the way out. Unsugar coated enough?

real
06-25-2007, 05:00 PM
Its the system of entitlement that creates the players you see today. If you can't grasp that simple correlation, i can't do much for you. For the record, I hated Reggie in college. Hated the bastard long before he was drafted.

Sure you can make that connection.

I could also make the connection between the police officer that let my grandma off the hood for going 10 miles over the limit...

Dammit Granny!!! Get your wreckless arse off the road, and next time you demand to be ticketed because getting let off the hook only leads to others being let off the hook...

I'm done with you guys...have fun hating Reggie...It's sure to take you to all kinds of fulfilling places...

Texan_Bill
06-25-2007, 05:01 PM
True story.

A friend of mine was on the SMU team that was whacked. He never caught on anywhere and alas not only did he not play football again, nor did he never make it back to school. I guess UPS is a good job with great bennys, but its not the same as having a sheep skin from SMU..

Texan_Bill
06-25-2007, 05:02 PM
i hope he gets hit by a train, and accidentally irreversible maims barry bonds, michelle wie, rex grossman, and carlos beltran on the way out. Unsugar coated enough?

I just spit my coke.... :fans:

swtbound07
06-25-2007, 05:05 PM
I just spit my coke.... :fans:

if your wondering where i got this list from....note the date...i wrote this months ago.

http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=57730183&blogID=226100650&Mytoken=5DE3B5FE-9434-43F6-852E5E4043A4322267447799

Specnatz
06-25-2007, 05:07 PM
LOL....you have no idea how much goes into, or what being a college football player is about....

And I just totally LMAO at your second paragraph....Que the sad violin music and light the candles...Specnatz has a story to tell...You first make implications that they aren't entitled to go to college then you whine about some imaginary, totally made up, probably never to become reality fantasy kid that doesn't get to go to USC....ahhhh, pooh....

What part do you not get, you take money that you should not a school loses scholarships therefore they can not give a kid a scholarship.

I have plenty of idea what it takes to be a man though, and men own up to mistakes and take responsibility for them.

As far as Mario goes, a lot did hang him out to dry on the speeding. I didn't because I have sped and that would be a hypocrit and no one did get hurt and he owned up to it. Something reggie has not done.

This about right and wrong and the original point of the thread, how is reggie good to talk to young players, personaly I would not listen to him because he would be hypocritical. I would actually ask him if he could talk to me about getting a free house.


Reggie paid that debt last year. Care to call him a scumbag now? Check facts, talk to the insiders, make sure before calling someone a thief. Sometimes, it will keep egg off your face.

No I will not take back what I said because he has not offered any such public apology. Yes I still think he is a 'dirtbag'.

Elle, there was money exchanged between the owner of the house and reggie but no one knows what that is for because neither party is discussing it. So I think it is more like hush money than money paid for a debt.

swtbound07
06-25-2007, 05:09 PM
Reggie paid that debt last year. Care to call him a scumbag now? Check facts, talk to the insiders, make sure before calling someone a thief. Sometimes, it will keep egg off your face.

thought you were done interneting?

Texan_Bill
06-25-2007, 05:12 PM
if your wondering where i got this list from....note the date...i wrote this months ago.

http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=57730183&blogID=226100650&Mytoken=5DE3B5FE-9434-43F6-852E5E4043A4322267447799

Very Nice.. Let me know when you update that.

swtbound07
06-25-2007, 05:12 PM
Very Nice.. Let me know when you update that.

the blog or the list?

Texan_Bill
06-25-2007, 05:15 PM
the blog or the list?

both, actually!!

swtbound07
06-25-2007, 05:16 PM
both, actually!!

here is the direct link to the blog...feel free to backtrack and read some history if you want...i like to rant.

http://blog.myspace.com/4plus11

its updated whenever im pissed enough to write or there is an interesting news story...so meh..ya know how that works.

The1ApplePie
06-25-2007, 05:24 PM
Its the system of entitlement that creates the players you see today. If you can't grasp that simple correlation, i can't do much for you. For the record, I hated Reggie in college. Hated the bastard long before he was drafted.

Feel the same about Mario Williams.

Maybe I'm wrong and he will actually be relevant in the NFL this year, and not the bust he was last year.

I'll take a scumbag over a bust any day.

Kaiser Toro
06-25-2007, 05:25 PM
Bush had character issues given the amateur rules that he was playing under. USC compliance also is at fault in regards to those issues. How Bush handles himself in the professional world and consequently how the NFL wants to market its players via endorsements and in their trainings for development or vitality is their business.

I would not have selected Bush myself as a stalwart of ethics this early into his career, but his stature is still quite relevant to the folks he will be speaking to even if he is an over paid scat back. Fluff, hype and glitz unfortunately rule the day for a league that is challenged by ethics as of late.

Kaiser Toro
06-25-2007, 05:30 PM
You know what, Ben? I flat out love you. For reasons that only you and I know. But. This is beyond what I am able to cope with.

You have no rational reason to HATE anyone. Not one person on this planet and that does include Reggie Bush. You and I have stood face to face and bellowed our arguements before, but this I will not tolerate. You do not know him. You have no reason to hate him. Perhaps if he broadsided you and fled the scene, maybe. But, he's a kid, a year older than you, who is gifted and talented. Is that why you hate him? His talent?

I'm not going near this thread again. I'm not going to discuss Reggie's talent because it is immaterial to the Texans. I refuse to discuss this matter further, in any means what so ever.

Consider this my final post to/with you.

I'm not being dramatic. I'm not PMSsing. I'm serious.

I'm done. You went too far.

C'mon Elle, rub a beignet on it and get back in here. :shades:

Specnatz
06-25-2007, 05:40 PM
[/B]

Oh, so I don't know was paid? Appreciate that, there, buddy. Really appreciate that comment.

I used to work for lawyers. It wasn't my finest hour, but it paid the bills. The first lesson I learned, working for lawyers, was this:"Never ask ask a question you do not already know the answer to."
Don't ask me about what Reggie paid.

Exactly, and since reggie cannot talk about it nor his attorney can we can all just speculate.

I have my beliefs and since no one is talking it is a plaussible based upon facts.

Texan_Bill
06-25-2007, 05:44 PM
I used to work for lawyers. It wasn't my finest hour, but it paid the bills. The first lesson I learned, working for lawyers, was this:

Never trust an attorney?!?!

Vinny
06-25-2007, 05:46 PM
we sure have a bunch of lawyer fans around here...ouch.

at least you know that I :heart: you guys

Specnatz
06-25-2007, 05:52 PM
we sure have a bunch of lawyer fans around here...ouch.

at least you know that I :heart: you guys

Not an attorney fan what so ever.

Il_Bruno
06-25-2007, 05:57 PM
Never said anyone was a scumbag. What I said was that anyone who assumes a new rookie NFL player was Snow White is probably looking at ant fights on the TV.

I DID say that if you are going to talk to rookies about off field antics, who better to choose than someone who is under investigation.

It's what you call READING the post you are responding to before you fire a shot off......



look, i said some people merely disagree with you, wether they were snow whites or shreks or whatever examples you used. thats ALL I was saying, some people disagree with you. An opinion, some people thought some other people were more qualified, and the way you responded it seemed like you were thinking you were in a corner and all these meanies were out to get your and your boy reggie. not at all what im trying to do. People just disagree with you on who should be doing the talking. You think its better for someone under investigation would make more sense (i see where your comin from to) and some other people think someone who was able to avoid trouble all together would be better.


in hindsight, that shot i took was a little hasty, but i thought you werent quite getting the point. What im saying, right now, is that i completely understand your point, as well as me thinking bush isnt a scumbag like others think he is.


again, sorry for the "shot", it wasnt supposed to be extremely malicious by any means.


plus i like the pirate dude :pirate:

Il_Bruno
06-25-2007, 05:58 PM
Lawyers have saved my ass a few times and taught me many things. I don't ever want to WORK for them again, I can still appreciate the things I learned.:heart: I just worked, and won, a case for custody for a friend of mine. Her ex was trying to take the boy away from her and I played lawyer. Beat Kenny's pants off in the process. That debacle of his cost him $5000 and I beat him and his attorney. :D The child now resides with his mother.:cowboy1:


your like the robin hood of lawyers! or something like that.


i guess that isnt quite as good as the snow whites and shreks you used earlier huh :splits:

LikeABoss
06-25-2007, 06:18 PM
I think having Reggie speak at the symposium was a great decision:cool:

texasguy346
06-25-2007, 06:26 PM
we sure have a bunch of lawyer fans around here...ouch.

at least you know that I :heart: you guys

Most lawyers I'm okay with. It's their bills that I'm not too fond of but the good ones certainly earn every penny.

aj.
06-25-2007, 06:27 PM
Pardon the interruption but when y'all take a break from your chest thumping contest, can someone produce Reggie's talking points so I can read the specific [Roger Goodell approved] message he was instructed to deliver?

In my world I've seen some pretty compelling testimony from those who have experienced a near miss.

The new commish has left no doubt in his few short months at the helm that he is the supreme caretaker of The Shield. Do you think for one minute that he would let anyone get on that stage and freestyle, or risk delivering the wrong message? Not a chance.

Il_Bruno
06-25-2007, 09:29 PM
I just phoned my friend who I represented last Thursday to read her the thread and ask her opinion.

She actually said I was far better than Snow White and Shrek. If I hadn't of abandonded my family to go to court with her, she would have lost custody because she didn't know what to say/how to act in court. She didn't have the $1500 that the lawyers were asking to walk in the room with her. She looked at me, looked back at them and went with me. I nailed the case in 25 minutes.

Robin Hood of the courtroom? LOL....yeah, I guess so.

And Reggie is still fine until proven otherwise. He's no dirt bag, scub bucket, scum bag, or anything else, until he's proven to be.

fair enough, sometimes we forget about that little innocent till proven guilty thing, and we seem to like to apply it selectively.


its not going to change some people's opinion on the golden boy though :fans:

Wolf
06-25-2007, 10:58 PM
some of you have to understand I imagine SWT's favorite video of Bush is the one against the Eagles

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3nJYMPYqnA

I do feel for the guy on that, been there done that but on highschool level , couldn't imagine NFL level

swtbound07
06-26-2007, 09:32 PM
some of you have to understand I imagine SWT's favorite video of Bush is the one against the Eagles

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3nJYMPYqnA

I do feel for the guy on that, been there done that but on highschool level , couldn't imagine NFL level

i laughed for 3 straight hours when that happened.....i was playin in the WSOP Circuit in tunica...damn near fell off the table...look at him crawling around trying to get his bearings...

Numbskull
06-26-2007, 10:50 PM
Reggie Bush is a scumbag and perhaps even the antichrist. His family took money in college; somebody shoot him in the face, please! He broke NCAA rules. What a scumbag. He's right up there with OJ, Pacman, Leonard Little, Lindsey Lohan, Tom Cruise, and Ryan Seacrest. Whats worse? He sucks. I wouldn't want him on my team if you gave me draft picks to take the scrub. He's THAT bad!! He's complete garbage. I can't wait til he dies..

/swt

real
06-26-2007, 10:52 PM
I remeber many saying Reggie would be crushed and dismantled by bigger stronger players in the NFL...One big hit, and he'd be through...

Seems like a pretty tough SOB to me.....

swtbound07
06-27-2007, 07:36 AM
Reggie Bush is a scumbag and perhaps even the antichrist. His family took money in college; somebody shoot him in the face, please! He broke NCAA rules. What a scumbag. He's right up there with OJ, Pacman, Leonard Little, Lindsey Lohan, Tom Cruise, and Ryan Seacrest. Whats worse? He sucks. I wouldn't want him on my team if you gave me draft picks to take the scrub. He's THAT bad!! He's complete garbage. I can't wait til he dies..

/swt

if i wasn't half convinced that i myself was the anti-christ, you'd be on to something there.....

Texan_Bill
06-27-2007, 08:13 AM
i laughed for 3 straight hours when that happened.....i was playin in the WSOP Circuit in tunica...damn near fell off the table...look at him crawling around trying to get his bearings...

I have to admit, that once I realized he wasn't seriously injured (because I dont hate the guy that much) - I fell out laughing so hard. That has to be the all-time best..... "Reggie Bush, you got........... JACKED UP!"

"Welcome to the NFL rook!!"

The1ApplePie
06-27-2007, 08:53 AM
I have to admit, that once I realized he wasn't seriously injured (because I dont hate the guy that much) - I fell out laughing so hard. That has to be the all-time best..... "Reggie Bush, you got........... JACKED UP!"

"Welcome to the NFL rook!!"

At first I thought he was going to shake it off, but then he went down. But, he got back in the game and kicked ass.

I'll take an offensive weapon like Bush over an "Elite Pass Rusher" that get's domianted by 3rd string Raider's linemen and pancaked all game by a fullback.

real
06-27-2007, 08:58 AM
I'll take an offensive weapon like Bush over an "Elite Pass Rusher" that get's domianted by 3rd string Raider's linemen and pancaked all game by a fullback.

I think your opinion of Mario will change after this year....:cool:

nunusguy
06-27-2007, 09:00 AM
Reggie Bush is a scumbag and perhaps even the antichrist. His family took money in college; somebody shoot him in the face, please! He broke NCAA rules. What a scumbag. He's right up there with OJ, Pacman, Leonard Little, Lindsey Lohan, Tom Cruise, and Ryan Seacrest. Whats worse? He sucks. I wouldn't want him on my team if you gave me draft picks to take the scrub. He's THAT bad!! He's complete garbage. I can't wait til he dies..

/swt
That's almost amusing. To say you went over the top is certainly an understatement but I gotta give you props for puttin your heart into there Numbskull.
I was just really puzzled by the leagues decision to put him up there, since to this day I don't think Bush has been willing to field questions about the "alleged" payoffs to his family involving the agent(s) ?
And there really are so many other candidates who are absolutely impecably clean without controversy. In just our division, if you don't choose VY you could select Joesph Addai (Colts) or Maurice Drew-Jones each of whom arguably performed better on the field in their rookie years in this league than Bush.

The1ApplePie
06-27-2007, 09:01 AM
I think your opinion of Mario will change after this year....:cool:


I doubt it. Next Courtney Brown. Well, stat wise, Brown was actually a better rookie.

real
06-27-2007, 09:07 AM
In just our division, if you don't choose VY you could select Joesph Addai (Colts) or Maurice Drew-Jones each of whom arguably performed better on the field in their rookie years in this league than Bush.

If I'm going to the whitehouse I want to see Bush, not Cheney.

It's not about who the incoming players can relate to, it's about who they look at as a bigger success. Sure those guys may have arguably had better 1st years, but that doesn't mean that people all of a sudden view those guys as better football players than Reggie. It's not like you can disregard this mans total body of work. Well maybe some of you guys do, but hey....

Even if you think Cheney would be a better president than Bush, you're still going to want to talk to the president over the vice president.

real
06-27-2007, 09:08 AM
I doubt it. Next Courtney Brown. Well, stat wise, Brown was actually a better rookie.

I won't argue with you about it...we'll just have to wait and see...:cowboy1:

Texan_Bill
06-27-2007, 09:09 AM
That's almost amusing. To say you went over the top is certainly an understatement but I gotta give you props for puttin your heart into there Numbskull.
I was just really puzzled by the leagues decision to put him up there, since to this day I don't think Bush has been willing to field questions about the "alleged" payoffs to his family involving the agent(s) ?
And there really are so many other candidates who are absolutely impecably clean without controversy. In just our division, if you don't choose VY you could select Joesph Addai (Colts) or Maurice Drew-Jones each of whom arguably performed better on the field in their rookie years in this league than Bush.

I was just curious why he went throught that big long rant, and then I looked at his avatar..... :hmmm:

Texan_Bill
06-27-2007, 09:11 AM
At first I thought he was going to shake it off, but then he went down. But, he got back in the game and kicked ass.

I'll take an offensive weapon like Bush over an "Elite Pass Rusher" that get's domianted by 3rd string Raider's linemen and pancaked all game by a fullback.

He did alright after he shook the cob webs out.

But the rest of your post is opening and old can of worms for you and I.... lol.

Specnatz
06-27-2007, 09:45 AM
At first I thought he was going to shake it off, but then he went down. But, he got back in the game and kicked ass.

I'll take an offensive weapon like Bush over an "Elite Pass Rusher" that get's domianted by 3rd string Raider's linemen and pancaked all game by a fullback.

Well between your hatred of Schaub and this comment, my question is why in the world are you even hear unless it is to be the anti-fan. I do not expect all sunshine and roses but your comments are basically ignore worthy 90% of the time because you do not offer any facts just hatered.


:texflag: :d:

The1ApplePie
06-27-2007, 10:06 AM
Well between your hatred of Schaub and this comment, my question is why in the world are you even hear unless it is to be the anti-fan. I do not expect all sunshine and roses but your comments are basically ignore worthy 90% of the time because you do not offer any facts just hatered.


:texflag: :d:

Never said I hated Schaub. I said we overpaid for the guy.

I joined the old forums because taking Mario Williams number 1 was the dumbest thing in the team's history.

Facts:
Mario wasn't the best player on his college D-Line (That would be Manny Lawson)
Mario got his ass handed to him by O-Linemen in college that weren't from Junior colleges (.5 sacks against real college OTs)
Mario got dominated by the 3rd string O-Linemen of the Raiders, the worst line in football
Mario got his ass kicked by fullback Chris Cooley all game
Mario got thrown around by like a rag doll by a guy that missed football for years with a broken back (Kyle Turley)


The only fact argument against Reggie is his low YPC. Of course, your YPC is going to go down when you get hit for 7 yard losses on shotgun draws where the whole defense comes down on you instead of covering the pass.

real
06-27-2007, 10:13 AM
Never said I hated Schaub. I said we overpaid for the guy.

I joined the old forums because taking Mario Williams number 1 was the dumbest thing in the team's history.

Facts:
Mario wasn't the best player on his college D-Line (That would be Manny Lawson)
Mario got his ass handed to him by O-Linemen in college that weren't from Junior colleges (.5 sacks against real college OTs)
Mario got dominated by the 3rd string O-Linemen of the Raiders, the worst line in football
Mario got his ass kicked by fullback Chris Cooley all game
Mario got thrown around by like a rag doll by a guy that missed football for years with a broken back (Kyle Turley)


The only fact argument against Reggie is his low YPC. Of course, your YPC is going to go down when you get hit for 7 yard losses on shotgun draws where the whole defense comes down on you instead of covering the pass.

I totally understand where you're coming from here....

However, I do think Mario is going to play really well this year...

In the end I don't know if picking Mario was the best move, but I don't think we picked a bust by any means...

Specnatz
06-27-2007, 10:20 AM
Never said I hated Schaub. I said we overpaid for the guy.

I joined the old forums because taking Mario Williams number 1 was the dumbest thing in the team's history.

Facts:
Mario wasn't the best player on his college D-Line (That would be Manny Lawson)
Mario got his ass handed to him by O-Linemen in college that weren't from Junior colleges (.5 sacks against real college OTs)
Mario got dominated by the 3rd string O-Linemen of the Raiders, the worst line in football
Mario got his ass kicked by fullback Chris Cooley all game
Mario got thrown around by like a rag doll by a guy that missed football for years with a broken back (Kyle Turley)


The only fact argument against Reggie is his low YPC. Of course, your YPC is going to go down when you get hit for 7 yard losses on shotgun draws where the whole defense comes down on you instead of covering the pass.



Actually there were other things against Bush. He is not an every down back, heck he is more of a wr than a rb with kick returning ability. I do not think he was the right choice. As far as being the best defender on his college team, I have heard this before, after the season ended not before. But please tell me if this is true why did every single ratings prior to the draft say Mario best defensive talent in the draft?

As far as being dominated, I also saw at times him being doubled teamed and chip blocked by the running back and the right tackle. The way you make it sound as if you could block mario.

The1ApplePie
06-27-2007, 12:52 PM
Actually there were other things against Bush. He is not an every down back, heck he is more of a wr than a rb with kick returning ability. I do not think he was the right choice. As far as being the best defender on his college team, I have heard this before, after the season ended not before. But please tell me if this is true why did every single ratings prior to the draft say Mario best defensive talent in the draft?

As far as being dominated, I also saw at times him being doubled teamed and chip blocked by the running back and the right tackle. The way you make it sound as if you could block mario.

Combine stats. The sole reason he was even in the top 15.

The1ApplePie
06-27-2007, 01:01 PM
I totally understand where you're coming from here....

However, I do think Mario is going to play really well this year...

In the end I don't know if picking Mario was the best move, but I don't think we picked a bust by any means...

I think Mario will be a great run stopper, but I don't buy him as an elite pass rusher. Too tall, too much to grab on to, and his rush technique is poor. He can fix the technique, but the others not so much.

He would have been a great 3-4 DE, with his size and strength.

Il_Bruno
06-27-2007, 02:26 PM
well, i certainly hope mario proves you wrong. WHEN he does be ready to eat your words though :texflag:

real
06-27-2007, 02:52 PM
I think Mario will be a great run stopper, but I don't buy him as an elite pass rusher. Too tall, too much to grab on to, and his rush technique is poor. He can fix the technique, but the others not so much.

He would have been a great 3-4 DE, with his size and strength.

I don't think Mario is going to be a 'great' pass rusher either, although he is definitely capable...

You admittedly said you think he'll be a 'great' run stopper, so if Mario only averages 8 sacks a year + is a 'great' run stopper, doesn't that make him a damn good DE ?

Il_Bruno
06-27-2007, 02:56 PM
I don't think Mario is going to be a 'great' pass rusher either, although he is definitely capable...

You admittedly said you think he'll be a 'great' run stopper, so if Mario only averages 8 sacks a year + is a 'great' run stopper, doesn't that make him a damn good DE ?


I guess the thinking is that you spend big money on good pass rushers. We have a decent run stopping DE in weaver, so the idea was to get a pass rusher on the other side.

mario really needs to get his technique down, and then i think he could be a monster. I hope the coaching staff makes that a priority.

The1ApplePie
06-27-2007, 03:15 PM
well, i certainly hope mario proves you wrong. WHEN he does be ready to eat your words though :texflag:

I hope he does, and I will.

Nothing wrong with a great run stopper, but using the 1st overall pick over two players who were better and at more key positions for a run stopper is idiotic.

Il_Bruno
06-27-2007, 03:19 PM
I hope he does, and I will.

Nothing wrong with a great run stopper, but using the 1st overall pick over two players who were better and at more key positions for a run stopper is idiotic.

i would only say one player, but thats just me. The thing is its done and we cant go back and change it, so i guess we should just support mario and see what happens in year 2.

Specnatz
06-27-2007, 03:58 PM
i would only say one player, but thats just me. The thing is its done and we cant go back and change it, so i guess we should just support mario and see what happens in year 2.


No I think we should whine and complain for the next two years just to show how much of an ass we can be. Besides misery loves company, right?

:gun:




:texflag: :d:

real
06-27-2007, 04:09 PM
We have a decent run stopping DE in weaver, so the idea was to get a pass rusher on the other side.


I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree....

I think Mario is waaay more valuable than a Dwight Freeney.....

And lets not confuse Mario with some big slug that can't move...

Personally I think Mario is capable of a 12 sack season...I think he's capable for his career to average about 8-10 a year....

Add that to his presence in the run game and IMHO, that equals an upper echelon DE...

I wanted Reggie or VY as well and quite frankly I think both are better players....but lets not act as if Mario has proved himself to be a scrub...I think he's proved that he's far from that....

Il_Bruno
06-27-2007, 05:14 PM
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree....

I think Mario is waaay more valuable than a Dwight Freeney.....

And lets not confuse Mario with some big slug that can't move...

Personally I think Mario is capable of a 12 sack season...I think he's capable for his career to average about 8-10 a year....

Add that to his presence in the run game and IMHO, that equals an upper echelon DE...

I wanted Reggie or VY as well and quite frankly I think both are better players....but lets not act as if Mario has proved himself to be a scrub...I think he's proved that he's far from that....


oh but i agree with you. I think Mario can become a dominant all-around player, good pass rusher and good run stopper. He needs to develop some pass rush moves that use his natural strength and speed. I dont even recall him being really quick or shifty but i think mario will be just fine. If nothing else im satisfied with throwing TEs into RBs for losses. that play was freakin amazing and i dont think anyone else would be capable of that. Flashes like that kept my faith in him last year.

I think a good all-around DE is much better then a Freeney type of player, but Freeney plays in a system where basically the DE is told "go get the QB". rush first instincts allow him to put up huge sack numbers, but ever notice how many runs go to his side?

Wolf
06-27-2007, 10:30 PM
I hope he does, and I will.

Nothing wrong with a great run stopper, but using the 1st overall pick over two players who were better and at more key positions for a run stopper is idiotic.

classic
not worth #1 overall

what was he worth? #2? #3? sorry but we trade down, no MW (he would have been gone at #2

The1ApplePie
06-27-2007, 10:59 PM
classic
not worth #1 overall

what was he worth? #2? #3? sorry but we trade down, no MW (he would have been gone at #2

Well, except for the fact that Payton said they were going to take AJ Hawk until we passed on Bush

1. Bush
2. Hawk
3. VY
4. Mario

Why would a team with a huge hole at LB and two pro bowl DEs take another DE?

Wolf
06-27-2007, 11:19 PM
haven't heard that one about AJ hawk, rumor was Mario that i heard, but anyway that is splitting hairs...

two probowl Defensive linemen? maybe I am looking wrong but will smith was listed in 2007 as at the probowl

no one listed in 2006 that i can find


maybe i am looking at wrong place.. their defense was ok but looks like they could have used help.


say what you want but writing was on the wall with the Texans. IF the price wasn't right they weren't trading down
Carr signed extention = no Young
DD supposively to return means no Bush .


This team had to go ugly at sometime and Mario, I hope he becomes good but time will tell.


nothing against reggie but duece and brees tore it up, Reggie helped but Saints were on their way IMO

Specnatz
06-28-2007, 01:44 AM
Well, except for the fact that Payton said they were going to take AJ Hawk until we passed on Bush

1. Bush
2. Hawk
3. VY
4. Mario

Why would a team with a huge hole at LB and two pro bowl DEs take another DE?

And we all know a GM and a head coach would never lie, but then again you are the first to say this. EVER!!

I honestly think you are more full of it than a port-a-potty at a sturgis rally.

Texan_Bill
06-28-2007, 08:10 AM
The best news, whether you like Mario or not, is that we didn't draft Reggie Bush!!!

:stirpot:

gtexan02
06-28-2007, 01:22 PM
The Saints WERE highly considering hawk. Here's an interview from matt leinart:


I knew the Texans were taking Mario Williams. That deal was done before the draft started. And Reggie seemed like an obvious choice for the Saints. But still

ML: Hey! Coach Payton!

SEAN PAYTON: Hey, Matt.

ML: How are things in New Orleans?

SP: Doing well.

ML: Coach, how good is Reggie Bush?

SP: He's explosive. He's competitive. But I saw him play hoops in Vegas. His game needs work. Sticking to football is gonna work out better for him.

ML: Let's say Reggie had gone No. 1. Who do you take second?

SP: Well, we seriously considered Matt Leinart. But we had already signed Drew Brees. So we looked at A.J. Hawk and Mario. Those were the two players we were going to debate. But come on, we had ya in for a visit. Gave ya a Saints helmet.

ML: It was a minihelmet. And a gift bag, a nice T-shirt and hat, though.

SP: It was hard to pass on that talent.

ML: I guess I'm no Saint.


http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=leinart/070606

The1ApplePie
06-28-2007, 01:23 PM
The Payton quote came from the old Texan's Talk, where Payton said they were going to take Hawk until Reggie was still on the board.

Why would a team with two great DEs and no LB take another DE?

If we were picking at 4, Mario would still be there. If not, we get D'Brick and an extra 1st and 3rd.

real
06-28-2007, 01:28 PM
Saints weren't going to take Mario.

real
06-28-2007, 01:30 PM
In all honesty we probably messed that pick up.

That doesn't equate to Mario being a bust, or the team not being successful.

Before the draft I didn't think Mario was the more talented of the bunch, and I don't think that now.

The1ApplePie
06-28-2007, 01:34 PM
I really hate Reggie's agent. If it weren't for that, Reggie would be here.

QBs in this draft better than ML/VY: 0
RBs better than Bush: 0
DEs better than Mario: 2

HOU-TEX
06-28-2007, 01:43 PM
I really hate Reggie's agent. If it weren't for that, Reggie would be here.

QBs in this draft better than ML/VY: 0
RBs better than Bush: 0
DEs better than Mario: 2

Obviously this is based on your own opinion, correct? IMO, I'd rather have Cutler before those two QBs. After watching this past season, I wouldn't even rank Bush as a RB. There were several RBs better than Bush. Jones-Drew for instance was great. That said, I was in the trade back for Hawk crowd (if there was a crowd). Hawk and D-Ryans would've been absolutely sick. Either way, I'm happy with direction we're going and have no problem with what we've done thus far.:whip: :whip:

real
06-28-2007, 01:48 PM
Jay Cutler is not good.

The1ApplePie
06-28-2007, 01:50 PM
Adams was generally graded better than Mario. He has the body and technique to be a much better NFL rusher.

Anderson was graded around equal I think.

Not sure about Jay Bustler yet.

HOU-TEX
06-28-2007, 01:56 PM
Jay Cutler is not good.

Oh, okay, if you say so. lol :rolleyes:

Adams was generally graded better than Mario. He has the body and technique to be a much better NFL rusher.

Anderson was graded around equal I think.

Not sure about Jay Bustler yet.

Adams and Anderson were DEs from this years draft. What are you talking about? :confused:

The1ApplePie
06-28-2007, 01:59 PM
I said:
This draft: No QBs better than VY/ML
No RBs better than Bush
2 DEs better than Mario

HOU-TEX
06-28-2007, 02:03 PM
I said:
This draft: No QBs better than VY/ML
No RBs better than Bush
2 DEs better than Mario

So you're comparing Mario to DEs that haven't even played a down in the NFL. Brilliant!

swtbound07
06-28-2007, 02:07 PM
all the running backs in this years draft, last years draft, nexts years draft, the 2017 draft, and all drafts from 1900-present day are in fact better than reggie bush. screw him.

The1ApplePie
06-28-2007, 02:09 PM
all the running backs in this years draft, last years draft, nexts years draft, the 2017 draft, and all drafts from 1900-present day are in fact better than reggie bush. screw him.

Could say the same for Super Bust

And in 2006, Reggie was better than Mario so, I guess Mario must really suck.

Lucky
06-28-2007, 02:30 PM
Adams was generally graded better than Mario. He has the body and technique to be a much better NFL rusher.

Anderson was graded around equal I think.
By whom?

Considering his age, size, workout numbers, and production as a 20 year old junior, Mario was one of the highest rated DE's to come out of the draft in years. He was compared favorably to Reggie White and Julius Peppers at similar points in their careers. Respected NFL experts such as Bill Parcells and Eagles GM Tom Heckert admitted that they would have selected Williams with the 1st pick in the draft.

What Williams never did was win the Heisman or the Rose Bowl. What he did do was injure his foot early in his rookie season. If you want to say that the Texans made a mistake after the 1st season in a 12-15 year career, fine. But to suggest that Adams and Anderson were equal or better prospects than Mario is absurd.

swtbound07
06-28-2007, 02:31 PM
Could say the same for Super Bust

And in 2006, Reggie was better than Mario so, I guess Mario must really suck.

no he wasn't. reggie sucked.

Specnatz
06-28-2007, 02:34 PM
Could say the same for Super Bust

And in 2006, Reggie was better than Mario so, I guess Mario must really suck.

After one year you lable a guy a bust and this is why you even lose on madden.

HOU-TEX
06-28-2007, 02:37 PM
Could say the same for Super Bust

And in 2006, Reggie was better than Mario so, I guess Mario must really suck.

You're living in the past buddy. Either get over it, go to the correct forum or just go to a different teams board all together. Good day:shades:

mexican_texan
06-28-2007, 02:39 PM
I said:
This draft: No QBs better than VY/ML
No RBs better than Bush
2 DEs better than Mario
J. Russ is better than VY
Adrian Peterson is better than Bush as a running back, by far
Gaines doesn't come close to Mario. Anderson, purely on potential.

real
06-28-2007, 02:44 PM
Oh, okay, if you say so. lol :rolleyes:

I think Cutler is good, I just don't think he's better than Leinart or VY. I don't think cutler is ever going to be considered an elite QB in this leauge.

real
06-28-2007, 02:45 PM
J. Russ is better than VY

As far as what ?

Throwing a prettier pass ?

HOU-TEX
06-28-2007, 03:23 PM
I think Cutler is good, I just don't think he's better than Leinart or VY. I don't think cutler is ever going to be considered an elite QB in this leauge.

I like Leinart, just think Cutler has the higher ceiling of the two. I don't really want to open the VY can of worms. Let's just say I think he's a good athlete and leave it at that.:winky:

As far as what ?

Throwing a prettier pass ?

IMO, both and I don't think JM will be an elite QB either.
:hides:

Texan_Bill
06-28-2007, 04:41 PM
As far as what ?

Throwing a prettier pass ?

Throwing a pass - in general.... lol!

real
06-28-2007, 04:46 PM
I still can't understand the ridicule of VY's throws...

He doesn't have an incredible arm, but I think he throws pretty good myslef...

That pass he threw to (I think it was) Bennett last year in Reliant, that he dropped was a thing of beauty...

Even the pass he threw in the pre-season (If I'm not mistaken it was Bennett as well) that was dropped, was a great pass...

He has good placement with his throws...They don't have ferocious velocity, but they aren't Chad Pennington's throws either...

I guess I just don't see it...

Double Barrel
06-28-2007, 05:40 PM
With Young's ability to run, a threat that defenses must respect, he can break it loose with open field or stay behind the line and scramble. His passes don't have to be pretty if he makes defensive backs have to cover for several seconds longer than usual. Somebody will eventually get open after that kind of time, and it doesn't take a Payton Manning arm to throw to an open receiver.

shinerbock_girl
06-28-2007, 06:35 PM
With Young's ability to run, a threat that defenses must respect, he can break it loose with open field or stay behind the line and scramble. His passes don't have to be pretty if he makes defensive backs have to cover for several seconds longer than usual. Somebody will eventually get open after that kind of time, and it doesn't take a Payton Manning arm to throw to an open receiver.

DITTO....

The1ApplePie
06-28-2007, 07:26 PM
no he wasn't. reggie sucked.


9 TDs > 4.5 Sacks

Specnatz
06-28-2007, 07:40 PM
9 TDs > 4.5 Sacks

3.6 yards per carry and 2 lost fumbles < $200,000 to $300,000

Wolf
06-28-2007, 07:48 PM
9 TDs > 4.5 Sacks

I hope he got atleast 9 TD's..geeze esp after the am't of touches he gets with the ball.

DCSaints_fan
06-29-2007, 02:05 PM
That's almost amusing. To say you went over the top is certainly an understatement but I gotta give you props for puttin your heart into there Numbskull.
I was just really puzzled by the leagues decision to put him up there, since to this day I don't think Bush has been willing to field questions about the "alleged" payoffs to his family involving the agent(s) ?
And there really are so many other candidates who are absolutely impecably clean without controversy. In just our division, if you don't choose VY you could select Joesph Addai (Colts) or Maurice Drew-Jones each of whom arguably performed better on the field in their rookie years in this league than Bush.

I would gather the reason why they picked Bush is because he was the most hyped player in the draft last year and knows more than anyone the extent of pressure and media attention NFL rookies will be facing. Of course, he is probably the "ceiling" in this regard in that no one will have it worse(or better, depending on your perspective!) than he did.

I don't think what he did in colelge is relevant. No more relevant than what players did in high school. Its what you do after you arrive in the NFL, that matters to the NFL.

nunusguy
07-02-2007, 02:58 PM
"This fall, you might be seeing as much of Reggie Bush during the commercial breaks as you see during the games.
The Saints' electrifying tailback with the multi-million dollar smile is slated to appear in no less than eight national ad campaigns, including adidas, Subway, Visa and Pepsi. Even a public service campaign on obesity. "
http://www.nola.com/saints/t-p/index.ssf?/base/sports-3/1183271060246800.xml&coll=1
****************************************
Apparently Bush is scheduled to be even more high-profile in the near-term.
I don't really think there's much chance of that investigation by the NCAA into allegations of Bush's family getting benefits from an agent while Bush was still at USC being pursued at this point. He's become such a hot property of the advertising industry, there's just too much big corporate money and infleunce for that to happen IMO.

Vinny
07-02-2007, 03:01 PM
Apparently Bush is scheduled to be even more high-profile in the near-term.
sure he is....Apparently after reading many of you guys opinions, I'm in the minority of Texans fans when I say that I think he is going to be a huge superstar in the comming decade....sux for us.

Lucky
07-02-2007, 03:12 PM
sure he is....Apparently after reading many of you guys opinions, I'm in the minority of Texans fans when I say that I think he is going to be a huge superstar in the comming decade....sux for us.
So do you believe that Reggie will become the best back in the NFL? Because, that's how he will be paid.

Bush is a weapon, to be sure. But, will he be a great RB? I think Bush's best position will eventually be WR, or more likely slot receiver.

Vinny
07-02-2007, 03:15 PM
So do you believe that Reggie will become the best back in the NFL? Because, that's how he will be paid.

Bush is a weapon, to be sure. But, will he be a great RB? I think Bush's best position will eventually be WR, or more likely slot receiver.
I think he will be an intense offensive force for many years to come in the NFL...unlike some of you guys, I really don't care where my TD's come from in the offense...as long as the players get into the end zone. Bush is going to be one of the big time offensive players in the NFL for a while. Heck, he set reception records as a rookie. He has a massive upside....but I'm not a pure homer so I don't look for reasons to discredit him. Not saying you are....Not saying you are....just stating my mind as it pertains to Bush and his upside.

swtbound07
07-02-2007, 03:17 PM
I think he will be an intense offensive force...unlike some of you guys, I really don't care where my TD's come from in the offense...as long as the players get into the end zone. Bush is going to be one of the big time offensive players in the NFL for a while. Heck, he set reception records as a rookie. He has a massive upside....but I'm not a pure homer so I don't look for reasons to discredit him. Not saying you are....just stating my mind as it pertains to Bush and his upside.

to me, receptions aren't as pure a stat or as usefull as yards per catch....sort of a DC parallel, in that yes he completes a lot of passes, but no, they don't go very far. I just can't see his frantic, scattered, improvisational style of running as being successfull too long. Reversing field in modern day nfl is a dangerous pasttime. I just don't think he will ever have the type of season that an LT will have. To me, he's a lot like mike vick in that its hard to directly quantify his worth in pure statistics...his relevance to an offense then becomes a matter of gross opinion.

Vinny
07-02-2007, 03:21 PM
to me, receptions aren't as pure a stat or as usefull as yards per catch....sort of a DC parallel, in that yes he completes a lot of passes, but no, they don't go very far. I just can't see his frantic, scattered, improvisational style of running as being successfull too long. Reversing field in modern day nfl is a dangerous pasttime. I just don't think he will ever have the type of season that an LT will have. To me, he's a lot like mike vick in that its hard to directly quantify his worth in pure statistics...his relevance to an offense then becomes a matter of gross opinion. He looked like a rookie early in the year to me...but he was sensational enough at times for me to see a budding superstar as he learned the league last year. I've seen enough rookies over the years to know that there is a learning curve for most of them. I'm objective enough to not hate him just because I'm posturing and spinning homer takes 'cause my favorite team passed him up for a nice run stopping DE. What is done is done though...we are what we are and he is what he is. He makes big plays, and the more he plays the more big plays he is going to make....most teams endlessly look for years to find "big play" players....one reason he went so high in the draft.

swtbound07
07-02-2007, 03:22 PM
He looked like a rookie early in the year to me...but he was sensational enough at times for me to see a budding superstar as he learned the league last year. I've seen enough rookies over the years to know that there is a learning curve for most of them. I'm objective enough to not hate him just because I'm posturing and spinning homer takes 'cause my favorite team passed him up for a nice run stopping DE.

now now, some of us hated him BEFORE we passed him in the draft, lets give me a lil respect.

Vinny
07-02-2007, 03:24 PM
now now, some of us hated him BEFORE we passed him in the draft, lets give me a lil respect.
I'd rather call a spade a spade (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39616). :user:

nunusguy
07-02-2007, 04:12 PM
Bush has tremendous versatility, but I'm confidant he's not the runner this years top rookie back Adriean Peterson is. And I don't think he's a better feature back than Addai, Drew-Jones, or Mahoney are from his rookie class of last year.
But I dunno, maybe his versatility, his array of skills make him a more valuable player to a team than a superior but less versatile "pure" back ?
The second year of development in the league for him, Mario, & VY should be fascinating to watch as it unfolds.

Vinny
07-02-2007, 08:44 PM
But I dunno, maybe his versatility, his array of skills make him a more valuable player to a team than a superior but less versatile "pure" back ?
Year in, year out, teams can find good backs so, I can see how you could make a case to pass on him with the first overall if you were convinced Williams is the same kind of force at his position. In his prime, Marshall Faulk had 5 consecutive years with over 80 catches and I think that Bush will end up with 80-100 catches and have a thousand yards on the ground. I think we will see this year that he does not need someone as good as Deuce in his prime to make his situation work. Heck, he had 88 catches and scored 8 TD's in his rookie season and its scary to think what he can produce now that he has two camps under his belt and the Saints continue to learn how to get him the ball in space....he can really spread out a defense.

Runner
07-02-2007, 09:20 PM
sure he is....Apparently after reading many of you guys opinions, I'm in the minority of Texans fans when I say that I think he is going to be a huge superstar in the comming decade....sux for us.

I thought Bush coming out of college would be top notch pro. I haven't seen anything to change my mind about that. I'd trade Mario for him today. It wouldn't have hurt the Texans to have Reggie on all those national campaign ads either.

To be fair, I thought Vince coming out of college would be no better than an adequate QB at the NFL level. I was wrong about that one.

real
07-02-2007, 09:45 PM
I thought Bush coming out of college would be top notch pro. I haven't seen anything to change my mind about that. I'd trade Mario for him today. It wouldn't have hurt the Texans to have Reggie on all those national campaign ads either.

100% agree...


Cept I wanted VY moreso than Reggie...

If Mario can be an effective pass rusher and stop the run it wasn't a bad pick, we could have just done better...

I don't think Reggie will come back to bite us, but VY may....

LikeABoss
07-02-2007, 09:52 PM
to me, receptions aren't as pure a stat or as usefull as yards per catch....

Devery Henderson, our slot receiver, led the league in yards per catch last season with a 23.3 yards per catch average. But he only caught 32 passes, many of them coming mainly on deep patterns. Donte Stallworth actually started for the Eagles and had many more opportunities to accumulate more catches unlike Henderson. Well, he was second in yards per catch behind Henderson with a 19.1 average. But guess how many balls he caught with the Eagles last season? 38, many of them coming mainly only on deep patterns.

IMO, I think that yards per catch stat is kinda over-rated to an extent. It inflates the averages over players like Andre Johnson and Reggie Bush who had three times the receptions of a Devery Henderson and Donte Stallworth. And it inflates the averages for players that only catch passes on deep patterns (Henderson, Stallworth, etc., etc.). Players like Andre and Reggie, you can depend on them to go over the middle and catch short, intermediate passes in traffic for a first down. I know for damn sure I can't say the same thing about Henderson and Stallworth.

real
07-02-2007, 09:55 PM
Devery Henderson, our slot receiver, led the league in yards per catch last season with a 23.3 yards per catch average. But he only caught 32 passes, many of them coming mainly on deep patterns. Donte Stallworth actually started for the Eagles and had many more opportunities to accumulate more catches unlike Henderson. Well, he was second in yards per catch behind Henderson with a 19.1 average. But guess how many balls he caught with the Eagles last season? 38, many of them coming mainly only on deep patterns.

IMO, I think that yards per catch stat is kinda over-rated to an extent. It inflates the averages over players like Andre Johnson and Reggie Bush who had three times the receptions of a Devery Henderson and Donte Stallworth. And it inflates the averages for players that only catch passes on deep patterns (Henderson, Stallworth, etc., etc.). Players like Andre and Reggie, you can depend on them to go over the middle and catch short, intermediate passes in traffic for a first down. I know for damn sure I can't say the same thing about Henderson and Stallworth.

Im gonna co-sign.

Wolf
07-02-2007, 10:07 PM
I personally hope all of the players are good, mario,vince,bush, heck even through in Cutler and Leinart and others

as a kid I hated the Steelers in the late 70's(and still do) but the matchup of Earl Campbell and the Oilers versus the Steel Curtain was good for the NFL. creates rivalries... or the Giants and LT versus the cowboys.. coaches had to be on top of their game along with the players, as a kid, It got me excited to see some matchups and like i said earlier, heartbreaks (in the oiler's case) brought the hatred (rivalry) out in me against another team.. I mean i'd hated all of the AFC Central foes when it came down too it but I didn't mind if the Steelers lost to say Brian Sipe of the browns or Ken Anderson (do i remember correctly) of the Bengal ...I'd watch those games just to see the Steelers lose

as for the Texans... I hope VY does well. I love the matchup we will have with him and Lendell white (if he gets his head out) against Mario,Demeco,D-rob and Okoye... matchups matchup matchup..

and a real rivalry can start between teams and not just between fans

nunusguy
07-03-2007, 08:22 AM
I thought Bush coming out of college would be top notch pro. I haven't seen anything to change my mind about that. I'd trade Mario for him today. It wouldn't have hurt the Texans to have Reggie on all those national campaign ads either.
To be fair, I thought Vince coming out of college would be no better than an adequate QB at the NFL level. I was wrong about that one.
I was dead wrong about VY myself. Right off the bat, I thought his wonderlic performance indicated he might not have the smarts to play OB in the NFL.
Look who's stupid now. Duh !
But I'd trade Mario for VY or Jay Cutler before Bush. And for one of those QBs
I'd throw in Babin, TJ and I dunno who else ?
Would I trade Mario for Bush today ? Oh yea I guess, but I will absolutely know the answer to that hypothetical 'bout December this year, barring anymore injuries. Dang, I keep thinking that somebody like Kubaik with his vast experience in this league saw something the rest of us just haven't seen yet ?

Texan_Bill
07-03-2007, 08:37 AM
as a kid I hated the Steelers in the late 70's(and still do) but the matchup of Earl Campbell and the Oilers versus the Steel Curtain was good for the NFL. creates rivalries... or the Giants and LT versus the cowboys.. coaches had to be on top of their game along with the players, as a kid, It got me excited to see some matchups and like i said earlier, heartbreaks (in the oiler's case) brought the hatred (rivalry) out in me against another team.. I mean i'd hated all of the AFC Central foes when it came down too it but I didn't mind if the Steelers lost to say Brian Sipe of the browns or Ken Anderson (do i remember correctly) of the Bengal ...I'd watch those games just to see the Steelers lose


C'mon Wolf... It's not like you were really pulling for Ken Anderson or Brian Sipe.... heck even Clay Mathews (Bruce's LB brother with the Brownies) It's that those guys were merely the lesser of the evils when comparing the Steelers to anyone Browns or Bengals...

The1ApplePie
07-03-2007, 09:01 AM
100% agree...


Cept I wanted VY moreso than Reggie...

If Mario can be an effective pass rusher and stop the run it wasn't a bad pick, we could have just done better...

I don't think Reggie will come back to bite us, but VY may....

If Reggie developes into the next Marshall Faulk or Priest Holmes, then the Texans will be wearing egg on their faces.

The only knock on Reggie is that he can't run up the middle, even though he was given few chances to do so. The man can run with power (see the 9ers game). Remember, he benches more than Joe Thomas. Give him more runs in the I, instead of a bunch of draws, and his YPC goes up.

I'll take a tough RB than can put up monster numbers over a DE that gives up on plays and gets shut out by barely mediocre talent at OT any day.

HOU-TEX
07-03-2007, 09:08 AM
I thought Bush coming out of college would be top notch pro. I haven't seen anything to change my mind about that. I'd trade Mario for him today. It wouldn't have hurt the Texans to have Reggie on all those national campaign ads either.

To be fair, I thought Vince coming out of college would be no better than an adequate QB at the NFL level. I was wrong about that one.

Personally, I wouldn't say you're wrong yet. I don't intentionally mean to jack the thread, but what did he do to justify anything better? Other than leadership, ability to elude the rush and athleticism, what did he do? IMO, he didn't do a whole lot during their little winning spree. If you go back and look at the games they won, how many were won because of him?

Look, I like the guy. I loved watching him in college. I liked watching him beat USC. I'm just not ready to crown him as a good/great NFL QB just yet.

I liked last years draft and I wouldn't trade anyone from it.:shades:

real
07-03-2007, 09:17 AM
If Reggie developes into the next Marshall Faulk or Priest Holmes, then the Texans will be wearing egg on their faces.

The only knock on Reggie is that he can't run up the middle, even though he was given few chances to do so. The man can run with power (see the 9ers game). Remember, he benches more than Joe Thomas. Give him more runs in the I, instead of a bunch of draws, and his YPC goes up.

I'll take a tough RB than can put up monster numbers over a DE that gives up on plays and gets shut out by barely mediocre talent at OT any day.

I don't disagree with you at all....

nunusguy
07-03-2007, 09:21 AM
The only knock on Reggie is that he can't run up the middle, even though he was given few chances to do so. The man can run with power (see the 9ers game). Remember, he benches more than Joe Thomas. Give him more runs in the I, instead of a bunch of draws, and his YPC goes up.
I'll take a tough RB than can put up monster numbers over a DE that gives up on plays and gets shut out by barely mediocre talent at OT any day.
You don't run with your arms - football is a game played from the butt down.
That's one of the knocks on Bush, not enought "junk in the trunk". Frankly, I dunno what difference a players bench reps has to do with his performance on the field if he's a back or receiver ?
The best rushing game Bush had was against the Giants, and I saw highlights from that game and everytime Bush got the handoff he feigned running up the middle (which was probably the assigned hole), but went outside. That only works so many times.
But earlier I said I'd probably trade Mario for Bush (certainly VY or Jay Cutler).
I'd also probably trade Mario right now for D'Brick, or AJ Hawk, or Maurice Drew-Jones, etc. The biggest problem with Mario's rookie year was the disappointment of Marios performance and not so much the performances of the other top picks.

Second Honeymoon
07-03-2007, 09:28 AM
I was dead wrong about VY myself. Right off the bat, I thought his wonderlic performance indicated he might not have the smarts to play OB in the NFL.
Look who's stupid now. Duh !
But I'd trade Mario for VY or Jay Cutler before Bush. And for one of those QBs
I'd throw in Babin, TJ and I dunno who else ?
Would I trade Mario for Bush today ? Oh yea I guess, but I will absolutely know the answer to that hypothetical 'bout December this year, barring anymore injuries. Dang, I keep thinking that somebody like Kubaik with his vast experience in this league saw something the rest of us just haven't seen yet ?

What Kubiak saw was that it is a lot easier finding quality RBs for his system than finding top flight DE prospects.

Vinny
07-03-2007, 09:29 AM
Personally, I wouldn't say you're wrong yet. I don't intentionally mean to jack the thread, but what did he do to justify anything better? Other than leadership, ability to elude the rush and athleticism, what did he do? IMO, he didn't do a whole lot during their little winning spree. If you go back and look at the games they won, how many were won because of him?

Look, I like the guy. I loved watching him in college. I liked watching him beat USC. I'm just not ready to crown him as a good/great NFL QB just yet.

I liked last years draft and I wouldn't trade anyone from it.:shades:If you watched the games you would see someone who was very hard to stop on 3rd downs. I had a post where I broke down his game on third downs and it was pretty clear that as the year progressed it was tough to get a VY offense off the field. They started the season winless till VY took over and could not run the ball. Once VY came in, defenses had to account for VY and their running game exploded. Great players change the game for the other players. The Titans won a combined 9 games the two years before he came on board. VY's team won 8 of the 13 games he started...with the same cast that went 0-5 to start the season and 9 combined wins in the 2 years plus the start of 2006.

real
07-03-2007, 09:40 AM
If you watched the games you would see someone who was very hard to stop on 3rd downs. I had a post where I broke down his game on third downs and it was pretty clear that as the year progressed it was tough to get a VY offense off the field. They started the season winless till VY took over and could not run the ball. Once VY came in, defenses had to account for VY and their running game exploded. Great players change the game for the other players. The Titans won a combined 9 games the two years before he came on board. VY's team won 8 of the 13 games he started...with the same cast that went 0-5 to start the season and 9 combined wins in the 2 years plus the start of 2006.

As I've said...

I think passing on VY will ultimately bite us in the butt worst...

Hometown guy, played for UT, a QB, drafted by our old team, in the same division....

:gun:

HOU-TEX
07-03-2007, 09:45 AM
If you watched the games you would see someone who was very hard to stop on 3rd downs. I had a post where I broke down his game on third downs and it was pretty clear that as the year progressed it was tough to get a VY offense off the field. They started the season winless till VY took over and could not run the ball. Once VY came in, defenses had to account for VY and their running game exploded. Great players change the game for the other players. The Titans won a combined 9 games the two years before he came on board. VY's team won 8 of the 13 games he started...with the same cast that went 0-5 to start the season and 9 combined wins in the 2 years plus the start of 2006.

Eh, I guess we'll see.

Wasn't something similar said about Vick when he was coming in? Maybe I'm just old school, running QBs(NFL) just don't do it for me.

Maybe he'll turn out to be the almighty, but I doubt it.:cool:

Vinny
07-03-2007, 09:46 AM
If you watched the games you would see someone who was very hard to stop on 3rd downs. I had a post where I broke down his game on third downs and it was pretty clear that as the year progressed it was tough to get a VY offense off the field. They started the season winless till VY took over and could not run the ball. Once VY came in, defenses had to account for VY and their running game exploded. Great players change the game for the other players. The Titans won a combined 9 games the two years before he came on board. VY's team won 8 of the 13 games he started...with the same cast that went 0-5 to start the season and 9 combined wins in the 2 years plus the start of 2006.Eh, I guess we'll see.

Wasn't something similar said about Vick when he was coming in? Maybe I'm just old school, running QBs(NFL) just don't do it for me.

Maybe he'll turn out to be the almighty, but I doubt it.:cool:I wish I could say we won 8 of the 13 games since we put Mario in...but I can't.

Texan_Bill
07-03-2007, 09:47 AM
As I've said...

Hometown guy, played for UT, a QB, drafted by our old team, in the same division....

:gun:

I like it... It has disaster written all over it for the Tinnbreads and Bud "the bad rug" Adams....

It's called karma... In Bud's case, he has plenty of Karma coming his way (and it's going to be bad..... very bad).

:stirpot:

Texan_Bill
07-03-2007, 09:49 AM
I wish I could say we won 8 of the 13 games since we put Mario in...but I can't.

This year will be a much better test. They will be missing a guy named Pac-man that should have received every bit as much credit for that turn around last season.

Vinny
07-03-2007, 09:51 AM
This year will be a much better test. They will be missing a guy named Pac-man that should have received every bit as much credit for that turn around last season.he was a great player...but his defense was only one of two teams that gave up over 400 points last season. It's hard to think they will be any worse defensively....it's hard to give up that many points in one year.

HOU-TEX
07-03-2007, 09:58 AM
I wish I could say we won 8 of the 13 games since we put Mario in...but I can't.

Now we're just getting silly. But, but..with Mario playing on a bad foot, we won 6 of 16 games. Just think how many games he would've won for us if he was 100%. LOL!:cool:

Second Honeymoon
07-03-2007, 09:59 AM
If you watched the games you would see someone who was very hard to stop on 3rd downs. I had a post where I broke down his game on third downs and it was pretty clear that as the year progressed it was tough to get a VY offense off the field. They started the season winless till VY took over and could not run the ball. Once VY came in, defenses had to account for VY and their running game exploded. Great players change the game for the other players. The Titans won a combined 9 games the two years before he came on board. VY's team won 8 of the 13 games he started...with the same cast that went 0-5 to start the season and 9 combined wins in the 2 years plus the start of 2006.

without a doubt. he was nearly impossible to stop on 3rd down and his 4th quarter performances were the stuff of legends. he isn't going to wow anyone with his accuracy yet but he has great touch on his throws and an uncanny awareness of the passrush.

vinny, as someone who watched quite a few of his games, you know he has just an incredible ceiling for development and the scariest thing is that he will get better. soooooo many times he missed hitting the homerun with his deep ball. he was just a little off so many times. once he starts being able to connect on that ball over the top the safeties are going to have to play back and then he can just break off some ridiculous scrambles. if he stays healthy he will be a top5 QB easily within a couple years.

to people who poo-poo his passing ability they just didnt watch the games and are probably UT haters or just read the stats in the Chronicle. he missed a lot of throws last year but he should be able to improve his accuracy greatly. his problem is that the team around him didn't improve in the offseason and this could retard his development somewhat. teams will still key on him like last year but will probably have an easier time having success doing so.

VY is the enemy now but to be ignorant of his ability and his promise is just ridiculous. I just hope the guy leaves Bud and the Titans in a few years. As a Houstonian, he knows that Bud will never win a championship in anything except being fat and having a bad hairpiece. Hopefully he will play hardball and demand out after 2008. If I had things my way, I would have him move to Dallas to open their fresh new stadium. VY in a Cowboys uniform just feels right to me. Bud doesnt deserve VY and he proved it this offseason.

as for Reggie Bush, anyone who says they would rather have Mario right about now needs to send me a little of what they are smoking. I like Mario but Reggie has shown much much more promise than Mario has. Mario may change my mind this year since he is presumably healthy and more in tune with his position, but Reggie made a big difference for the Saints both on and off the field. Who knows, maybe RB could have helped David look like a capable NFL starting QB....though I seriously doubt it.

Vinny
07-03-2007, 10:01 AM
Now we're just getting silly. But, but..with Mario playing on a bad foot, we won 6 of 16 games. Just think how many games he would've won for us if he was 100%. LOL!:cool:
it's not silly...this isn't a sport like this is baseball where you have endless amounts of games....there really aren't that many games and each win is something to savor (we sure haven't had many around here). Winning 8 of 13 and winning 6 games in a row and missing the playoffs by one measly win is a heck of a feat when you consider they won 9 games the previous 35 contests without VY. It wouldn't be "silly" if we did that....it would be awesome.

HOU-TEX
07-03-2007, 10:11 AM
it's not silly...this isn't a sport like this is baseball where you have endless amounts of games....there really aren't that many games and each win is something to savor (we sure haven't had many around here). Winning 8 of 13 and winning 6 games in a row and missing the playoffs by one measly win is a heck of a feat when you consider they won 9 games the previous 35 contests without VY. It wouldn't be "silly" if we did that....it would be awesome.

Understandable. I'm just going to wait for a year or two before I hand him the Vince Almighty badge. Sure, he provided a temporary spark for his team, but only time will tell if that spark ignites. :shades:

Second Honeymoon
07-03-2007, 10:15 AM
it's not silly...this isn't a sport like this is baseball where you have endless amounts of games....there really aren't that many games and each win is something to savor (we sure haven't had many around here). Winning 8 of 13 and winning 6 games in a row and missing the playoffs by one measly win is a heck of a feat when you consider they won 9 games the previous 35 contests without VY. It wouldn't be "silly" if we did that....it would be awesome.

You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Vinny again.

it is so refreshing hearing from Texans fans that are objective and honest with their takes. so many people let their UT, Bud, and/or VY hatred just take over their whole being. most of them would still take Mario over VY. That is just poppycock for lack of a better word. its great supporting your team but sometimes you have to realize that mistakes were made.

*drinks beer* here is to hoping that the Texans begin rectifying those mistakes this year.

Happy 4th of July. USA USA USA!! :homer:

Texan_Bill
07-03-2007, 10:21 AM
he was a great player...but his defense was only one of two teams that gave up over 400 points last season. It's hard to think they will be any worse defensively....it's hard to give up that many points in one year.

That does not account for his 3 punt returns for TD's, or his interception return for a TD. I wasn't just comparing offense to defense.

The point is, if you are going to give credit to a guy that barely completed 50% of his passes and threw more picks than TD's, then you also have to credit the guy that did those things I mentioned - for their turnaround... Oh, and, not to mention a 60 yard field goal...

Thats why I think this year - will be more telling for them.

HOU-TEX
07-03-2007, 10:24 AM
You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Vinny again.

it is so refreshing hearing from Texans fans that are objective and honest with their takes. so many people let their UT, Bud, and/or VY hatred just take over their whole being. most of them would still take Mario over VY. That is just poppycock for lack of a better word. its great supporting your team but sometimes you have to realize that mistakes were made.

*drinks beer* here is to hoping that the Texans begin rectifying those mistakes this year.

Happy 4th of July. USA USA USA!! :homer:

I'm not sure your post is directed towards me or not, but as I previously posted, I have no hatred towards VY. I stated earlier that I liked watching him play in college. In addition, UT is one of my favorite schools (other than SFA, lol). I'm just a little leery of his immediate success in the NFL.:)

The1ApplePie
07-03-2007, 10:35 AM
You don't run with your arms - football is a game played from the butt down.
That's one of the knocks on Bush, not enought "junk in the trunk". Frankly, I dunno what difference a players bench reps has to do with his performance on the field if he's a back or receiver ?
The best rushing game Bush had was against the Giants, and I saw highlights from that game and everytime Bush got the handoff he feigned running up the middle (which was probably the assigned hole), but went outside. That only works so many times.
But earlier I said I'd probably trade Mario for Bush (certainly VY or Jay Cutler).
I'd also probably trade Mario right now for D'Brick, or AJ Hawk, or Maurice Drew-Jones, etc. The biggest problem with Mario's rookie year was the disappointment of Marios performance and not so much the performances of the other top picks.

I put the bench numbers because I don't know what he squats.

As far as bench being important, Mario was a top pick pretty much just because of that and his 40.

Watch the 49ers game, where a 205 pound Reggie dragged 3 guys 10 yards, and tell me he can't run with power. As far as faking a run and going the other way not working all the time, I beg to differ. It doesn't matter if you know what's comming if you can't stop it. Urlacher can read the play, but if he can catch Reggie, it doesn't matter.

Honoring Earl 34
07-03-2007, 10:36 AM
You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Vinny again.

it is so refreshing hearing from Texans fans that are objective and honest with their takes. so many people let their UT, Bud, and/or VY hatred just take over their whole being. most of them would still take Mario over VY. That is just poppycock for lack of a better word. its great supporting your team but sometimes you have to realize that mistakes were made.

*drinks beer* here is to hoping that the Texans begin rectifying those mistakes this year.

Happy 4th of July. USA USA USA!! :homer:

I'm letting it playout one more year before I make a critical call on Mario . Reggie is an exciting player but I'd told Carr to pack his bags the day Young declared . This is for business reasons as much as football reasons but I agree VY would have been worth 2-3 more wins last year .

If Mario does the same thing this year , then yes they commited a major blunder . I think they can survive if Mario ends up being really good but not great . That's if Schaub performs to the where he's expected to .

Second Honeymoon
07-03-2007, 01:59 PM
I'm not sure your post is directed towards me or not, but as I previously posted, I have no hatred towards VY. I stated earlier that I liked watching him play in college. In addition, UT is one of my favorite schools (other than SFA, lol). I'm just a little leery of his immediate success in the NFL.:)

no it wasn't directed at you or anyone in particular. it was directed more towards the napoleonic mindset that some fans seem to have in regards to VY, UT, Dallas, NY Yankees, etc here in Houston.

I don't know for sure if VY will ever be an elite QB but based on his body of work from high school to college to his rookie year, you would have to be a fool to bet against him.

his biggest problem this year will be a lack of talent on his team. they could be poised to overcome that since they have good coaching but at the end of the day it comes down to talent most of the time. Talent makes you competitive but only hunger and drive will get you championships, and that happens to be something that VY has in spades....too bad it currently looks like they are talent starved in Tennessee. I mean if you think about, PacMan won as many games for the Titans as VY did....and he aint gonna be around there anymore.

in summation, I just would never bet against VY. He may even have a larger chip on his shoulder this year after coming up short Week17 in New England. He had an atrocious game and really let his team down. He is an emotional player and sometimes that can hurt ya. I remember seeing him in the closing minutes of the last game and you could tell he was hurting inside that they couldn't put it together against the Pats and have a chance at the playoffs.

As things went later that day, the Titans would have made the playoffs last year if they could have come away with a victory. You could tell that football is the most important thing in his life and that he takes losing personally. I heard some talking head the other day say something that i thought was pretty spot on. He said that he didn't want players that loved to win. He wanted players that hated to lose. He said there was a big difference and that difference is effectively the 'IT' factor.

It's kinda funny but I see the IT factor all the time in my work with Little League. Some kids are there to have fun and that is what it is all about ultimately at that level. But some kids have an inner desire to win and not just play the game they love. This hurts some kids because they lose their confidence and they may start pouting or *shudders* sometimes brings them to tears.

However, this inner desire doesn't hurt all the kids because it drives some of them to succeed and improve. They have the perfect combination of love for the game and the inner desire to win. These are the kids that are at the field early watching other teams, taking BP, fielding grounders, going to the batting cages, and working on their game. This seems like the kind of kid that VY was when he was coming up. It doesn't come overnight. He has won and lost and he just hates losing and he knows he will do anything he can to prevent that from happening.

sorry about the WALLOFTEXT

Second Honeymoon
07-03-2007, 02:06 PM
I'm letting it playout one more year before I make a critical call on Mario . Reggie is an exciting player but I'd told Carr to pack his bags the day Young declared . This is for business reasons as much as football reasons but I agree VY would have been worth 2-3 more wins last year .

If Mario does the same thing this year , then yes they commited a major blunder . I think they can survive if Mario ends up being really good but not great . That's if Schaub performs to the where he's expected to .

yeah i guess my VY over Mario statement was more of an indictment of Carr than Mario himself. Basically that if we draft VY than that means no Carr last year.

that would have been a good thing. Oh, I hope Mario turns out to be a great player for us too. We have yet to ever have a real pass rush so anyone who can rush the passer is OK in my book.....hopefully Mario can help in that aspect or the pick looks even worse than it presently does.

TexansSeminole
07-03-2007, 03:12 PM
Eh, I guess we'll see.

Wasn't something similar said about Vick when he was coming in? Maybe I'm just old school, running QBs(NFL) just don't do it for me.

Maybe he'll turn out to be the almighty, but I doubt it.:cool:

There is nothing that makes me think that Vince won't be a great QB.

I don't understand how people don't see it. I'm not saying we should have selected him by saying this...that is a completely different issue. I just don't understand how some people don't see it. Look at what the guy has done (college and his rookie season), it is really amazing.

Wolf
07-03-2007, 10:49 PM
C'mon Wolf... It's not like you were really pulling for Ken Anderson or Brian Sipe.... heck even Clay Mathews (Bruce's LB brother with the Brownies) It's that those guys were merely the lesser of the evils when comparing the Steelers to anyone Browns or Bengals...

yes lesser of evils but I liked more of the steelers getting their tail whipped

Wolf
07-03-2007, 10:51 PM
If Reggie developes into the next Marshall Faulk or Priest Holmes, then the Texans will be wearing egg on their faces.

The only knock on Reggie is that he can't run up the middle, even though he was given few chances to do so. The man can run with power (see the 9ers game). Remember, he benches more than Joe Thomas. Give him more runs in the I, instead of a bunch of draws, and his YPC goes up.

I'll take a tough RB than can put up monster numbers over a DE that gives up on plays and gets shut out by barely mediocre talent at OT any day.

who cares, VY could be the next great thing and the Texans would still be laughing stock depending on what media reports what..

I hope our defense will rock them while they played against us

Wolf
07-03-2007, 10:55 PM
As I've said...

I think passing on VY will ultimately bite us in the butt worst...

Hometown guy, played for UT, a QB, drafted by our old team, in the same division....

:gun:

it was a no win situation... pass on bush..he is good, pass on VY , he is good...

only way was to draft all 3

TEXANRED
07-03-2007, 11:34 PM
If you watched the games you would see someone who was very hard to stop on 3rd downs. I had a post where I broke down his game on third downs and it was pretty clear that as the year progressed it was tough to get a VY offense off the field. They started the season winless till VY took over and could not run the ball. Once VY came in, defenses had to account for VY and their running game exploded. Great players change the game for the other players. The Titans won a combined 9 games the two years before he came on board. VY's team won 8 of the 13 games he started...with the same cast that went 0-5 to start the season and 9 combined wins in the 2 years plus the start of 2006.
Wow, talk about me beating the same drum over and over again.

So the Titans started 0-5 but you seem to over look that out of those 5 VY started 2 of those games. Further, they beat Washington b/c Travis Henry rushed for 178 yards compared to VY's 161 yards.

Travis Henry was the factor in those 8 wins plus a D and special teams (Pac-Man) that stepped up in key situations.

I think you got your homer glasses at the same store that I did.