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Wolf
06-19-2007, 10:55 PM
ESPN had a list of the worst weapons for a Quarterback

we were 4th (titans #1)


I couldn't hear it because i was at a restaurant so if anyone has transcript or recap it would be appreciated

nero THE zero
06-19-2007, 10:59 PM
We have a pro-bowl RB, a pro-bowl WR, and TE is one of our greatest strengths.

We're definitely not in the top 10, not even top half - our WR corps is terribly weak - but 4th is probably a bit of an exageration.

Wolf
06-19-2007, 11:00 PM
that is what thought, they showed AJ and Green in the highlights but.. that is all I could see

TexanSam
06-19-2007, 11:48 PM
I saw it. It was a dumb segment even by ESPN standards. Mark Schlereth (however you spell his name) went down the list, but when he get to different teams he didn't even mention who the recievers on the team were. He said we had AJ who is outstanding and an aging Ahman Green but didn't give any info as to why our receiving corps is supposed to be pitiful. No mention of Andre Davis and Kevin Walter as unproven. No mention of Owen Daniels. I can see why we'd be ranked so high since we are unproven besides Andre Johnson, but ESPN didn't mention that we don't have anybody besides AJ. Careless reporting. But at least Bonnie Bernstein was good looking because Schlereth is a joke.

PapaL
06-20-2007, 05:34 AM
Isnt is true though? Until all these unprovens prove something we essentially have nothing. AJ is a star, Green is on the wrong of 30, our 2-4 WRs have done nothing really and no matter how much potential we see in Owen he has to do it every year. Granted these guys should be given more and better chances to succeed this year but until then we have two guys who the general football have heard of, AJ and Green.

Overalls
06-20-2007, 06:40 AM
I tend to agree with PapaL Some "reporters" have given us credit for Owen, but he still has just shown potential. I expect him to have a good year and I think Jacoby Jones could be a real sleeper for us, Dayne has proven to be an average back. Lundy and Taylor, potential. No WR on our team, besides AJ has proven anything at this level. So we have potential there. True one could have a break out season, but can anyone truthfully say, that without a doubt "player X" will give us a big year. I don't know about putting us 4th, but I don't have the type of time it would take to break down every team in the league. Right now every team that has drafted a skill position player in the last couple of years can still say that player has potential. So in that regard we are like every other team in the league. Even the TENNheads are talking about Paul Williams more than we are talking about Jacoby Jones and we picked Jones before they picked Williams and Williams didn't do hardly anything in college. If we aren't talking up our draft picks at the skill possitions how can we expect some talking head that would prefer to watching another team.

real
06-20-2007, 08:12 AM
I don't know exactly where I'd rank us, but just mentally going down the list of weapons on teams I don't think 4th is an outrage...

It's actually kinda hard trying to think of teams with worst weapons than us...

Tennesee...maybe Kansas city...Who else ?

HJam72
06-20-2007, 08:19 AM
We have a pro-bowl RB, a pro-bowl WR, and TE is one of our greatest strengths.

We're definitely not in the top 10, not even top half - our WR corps is terribly weak - but 4th is probably a bit of an exageration.

Ya sure about that part? I mean the starting two should be good overall, when one of them is a Pro-Bowler. I think Carr made a lot of #2 receivers look bad. OK, so none of them were great, but he never even saw them on the field. I've already forgotten his name, but look at that guy who went to New England. He still isn't great, but Brady sure made him look a lot more effective. Schaub just might make the whole offense look better, without even having to be Brady-like.

nunusguy
06-20-2007, 08:45 AM
I also saw that and really felt their take on Greens age & our uncertainty about the rest of the wide-receivers besides AJ was fair. That's not to say
we won't have someone, be it Walters or the rookie WR or another player,
emerge as our solid #2 WR. That remains to be seen at this point though.
On the other hand, it was unfair not to mention Owen Daniels and the fact that he is the first real TE we've had here in the sense that he's a bona fide over-the-middle & red-zone weapon while having enough blocking skills to make him a full-time starter and not just a specialists as was Billy Miller. Bottom line is Daniels was the consensus all-rookie TE in the NFL last year and was a real find for the Texans in the 4th round.
And their point about AJ having so many short receptions was true, as he was
not the weapon he was in his second year, but they could have pointed out that's one of the reasons the Texans replaced Carr with Schaub.

real
06-20-2007, 09:00 AM
exactly what i wanted to say.



xtrux-how 'bout the dolphins? or jacksonville? green bay? minnesota? the raiders?

IMHO, all those teams probably have better weapons...well, maybe not Green Bay....

But the Dolphins have Ronnie Brown, Lorenzo Booker, Tedd Ginn, Marty Booker, Chris Chambers...

Jacksonville has Matt Jones, Fred Taylor, Jones-Drew, Wilford, Williams

Greenbay has No one...

Oakland has a lot of 'potnetial' at their skill positions...

Minnesota has A.D, Chester Taylor, Aundra Allison, Mwelde Moore, Sidney Rice, Troy Williamson...


Not saying that these guys are loaded with talent at skill positions, but You can definitely make arguments that they have more than us...I don't know if I'd personally put us a t 4th, but IMHO, it's not an outrage...

ChildressTitanMan
06-20-2007, 09:05 AM
If we aren't talking up our draft picks at the skill possitions how can we expect some talking head that would prefer to watching another team.

The truth is no one knows a team like it's own fans. Analysts love to skim the surface & throw in their 2 cents.

i believe the Titans will be alright this year. Vince Young was actually throwing the ball in the 2nd half of last season & should improve on that side of his game after a full off season. As usual we have no names for our QB to throw to but we'll get by. At least Texans fans have a coach who is prepared to play rookies.

I know nothing about Jacoby Jones but who'd heard of Marques Colston before last year.

real
06-20-2007, 09:23 AM
We have a pro-bowl RB, a pro-bowl WR, and TE is one of our greatest strengths.

We're definitely not in the top 10, not even top half - our WR corps is terribly weak - but 4th is probably a bit of an exageration.

We have ONE player that opposing defenses will look at and be weary of...

Look at teams like the Colts with 4 or 5 offensive guys that can hurt you...

Or the Patriots...Or the Cowboys with Owens, Glenn, Barber, Jones, Whitten and Fasano....

Look at the Chargers...The Saints...Even the sorry Giants with Burress, Shockey, Jacobs, Moss...ect, ect....

I'm not sure if we're 4th, but c'mon...As far as teams keying on players, we are at the bottom of the barrel

Mr teX
06-20-2007, 09:27 AM
We have ONE player that opposing defenses will look at and be weary of...

Look at teams like the Colts with 4 or 5 offensive guys that can hurt you...

Or the Patriots...Or the Cowboys with Owens, Glenn, Barber, Jones, Whitten and Fasano....

Look at the Chargers...The Saints...Even the sorry Giants with Burress, Shockey, Jacobs, Moss...ect, ect....

I'm not sure if we're 4th, but c'mon...As far as teams keying on players, we are at the bottom of the barrel


Atlanta?

nero THE zero
06-20-2007, 09:30 AM
We have ONE player that opposing defenses will look at and be weary of...

Look at teams like the Colts with 4 or 5 offensive guys that can hurt you...

Or the Patriots...Or the Cowboys with Owens, Glenn, Barber, Jones, Whitten and Fasano....

Look at the Chargers...The Saints...Even the sorry Giants with Burress, Shockey, Jacobs, Moss...ect, ect....

I'm not sure if we're 4th, but c'mon...As far as teams keying on players, we are at the bottom of the barrel

I think you are discounting Ahaman Green. The guy is a perrenial 1000 yard rusher. I know he is getting old, but until he has a year that he doesn't produce there is no reason to think he shouldn't. Ron Dayne should be more than sufficient as a back up and that tandem should help keep each other healthy and effective.

As I said, our WR corps is pathetic. We have one of the top 5 WR in the league and then a bunch of should bes.

TE is easily one of our strongest position. Owen Daniels was easily one of the best, if not the best, rookie TE last season. Putzier is an above average pass catching TE and Bruener is one of the best run blocking TE in the league who also showed he has the hands to be a red zone threat as well.

Like I said, we're not even in the top half as far as skill positions go. But, I'll eat my hat if our offense finishes 28th next season.

real
06-20-2007, 09:37 AM
Atlanta?


You're kidding right ?

Norwood, Dunn, Crumpler, Jenkins, Joe Horn, White....

real
06-20-2007, 09:41 AM
I think you are discounting Ahaman Green. The guy is a perrenial 1000 yard rusher. I know he is getting old, but until he has a year that he doesn't produce there is no reason to think he shouldn't. Ron Dayne should be more than sufficient as a back up and that tandem should help keep each other healthy and effective.

As I said, our WR corps is pathetic. We have one of the top 5 WR in the league and then a bunch of should bes.

TE is easily one of our strongest position. Owen Daniels was easily one of the best, if not the best, rookie TE last season. Putzier is an above average pass catching TE and Bruener is one of the best run blocking TE in the league who also showed he has the hands to be a red zone threat as well.

Like I said, we're not even in the top half as far as skill positions go. But, I'll eat my hat if our offense finishes 28th next season.

Bruener is out of the equation...I hope you don't consider him a 'weapon'...

Where we'll finish isn't relevant to this discussion...It's about ranking our weapons....nothing more, nothing less...

If you're going to consider all of our 'possible' weapons, or 'potential' weapons then you're going to have to do that for everyone...

Ahman Green is a good back, but mostly EVERYBODY in the leauge has good backs...

I've stated several times that I don't know whether I'd rank us fourth or not, but we'd probably be somewhere around that area if I went team to team if not spot on....

nero THE zero
06-20-2007, 09:51 AM
Bruener is out of the equation...I hope you don't consider him a 'weapon'...

Where we'll finish isn't relevant to this discussion...It's about ranking our weapons....nothing more, nothing less...

If you're going to consider all of our 'possible' weapons, or 'potential' weapons then you're going to have to do that for everyone...

Ahman Green is a good back, but mostly EVERYBODY in the leauge has good backs...

I've stated several times that I don't know whether I'd rank us fourth or not, but we'd probably be somewhere around that area if I went team to team if not spot on....

If where our offense finishes next season is irrelevant to the discussion, how do you measure the accuracy of these rankings? If the rankings are immeasurable than they are merely an exercise in futility.

Also, you might be getting me mixed up with someone else as I agree with you on the "potential" of players. I think that arguments works with my Ahman Green argument if it has any relevency to my stance.

real
06-20-2007, 09:54 AM
I think you are discounting Ahaman Green. The guy is a perrenial 1000 yard rusher.

I count 27 guys who rushed for 900+ yards last season, and 24 who rushed for 1,000 +

AKA, 1000 yards aint all that...

real
06-20-2007, 10:00 AM
If where our offense finishes next season is irrelevant to the discussion, how do you measure the accuracy of these rankings? If the rankings are immeasurable than they are merely an exercise in futility.

Ummm...What does ranking a teams weapons have to do with where they will finish next season ?

There are too many factors, like play calling, WHO'S playing QB, if those weapons actually perform...injuries...

I don't get your point...

All of this really means nothing because anything can happen on Sunday's...

But if you're going to go down the line and look at teams skill players, the Texans are sorely lacking....I think Ahman Green is a good back...but as far as being a weapon for the QB I think he's just about average...nothing spectacular...AJ is a beast....past that, if you want to look at it realistically we have no one else...

I think Owen Daniels will be good...I also think Walter and Jones will be good...

I think Schaub will be good enough to have a Tom Brady like effect and use our players strengths the best way possible...

But that doesn't have anything to do with going down the list of teams and determining who's got the better 'weapons'...

nero THE zero
06-20-2007, 10:13 AM
Ummm...What does ranking a teams weapons have to do with where they will finish next season ?


Because there is a direct correlation in what a player has to work with and what a player does.

I understand the other factors, but on the same token, what is the point of ranking (and arguing over) the quality of a QB's weapons if you can't back it up in the end.

If that is the case, we might as well argue about how pretty of a color blue is.

real
06-20-2007, 10:28 AM
Because there is a direct correlation in what a player has to work with and what a player does.

I understand the other factors, but on the same token, what is the point of ranking (and arguing over) the quality of a QB's weapons if you can't back it up in the end.

If that is the case, we might as well argue about how pretty of a color blue is.

You're being silly IMO.

You acknowledge that there are other factors and then you go on to talk about backing 'it' up in the end...

What does that mean ?

Seriously, you need to go to NFL.com and look at the offensive statistics for the teams...look at where teams are ranked, and then think about those teams 'weapons'...Green
Bay, AKA the team with the bad O-line, no RB and poor recieving corps finished in the top ten...

The talent on your offense means nothing if everything else isn't clicking...and if everything else is clicking you can be a good offense with mediocre weapons..

I don't really understand your point...

Mr teX
06-20-2007, 10:36 AM
You're kidding right ?

Norwood, Dunn, Crumpler, Jenkins, Joe Horn, White....

Well, Crumpler is tight, but the rest.........

Even though he hasn't played long, Norwood was injured alot last year

Dunn is getting old.....comparable to Ahman

Jenkins is not that hot or at least comparable to what we have

Joe Horn is getting old & is starting to become injury prone

White is hot garbage or at least no better than the guys we have

real
06-20-2007, 10:38 AM
Well, Crumpler is tight, but the rest.........

Even though he hasn't played long, Norwood was injured alot last year

Dunn is getting old.....comparable to Ahman

Jenkins is not that hot or at least comparable to what we have

Joe Horn is getting old & is starting to become injury prone

White is hot garbage or at least no better than the guys we have

I can't hate on your opinion, but I would trade all of those guys for all of our guys (outside of AJ) in a heartbeat....

Texan_Bill
06-20-2007, 10:40 AM
AKA, 1000 yards aint all that...

I agree, 1000 yards doesnt mean much.. One only needs to average 62.5 yards over 16 games to reach 1000.

Mr teX
06-20-2007, 11:15 AM
I can't hate on your opinion, but I would trade all of those guys for all of our guys (outside of AJ) in a heartbeat....

LOL, Andrew & Owen, what do u guys have to say about that?

real
06-20-2007, 11:19 AM
LOL, Andrew & Owen, what do u guys have to say about that?

He's right, I'd do it too...



Signed,

Andrew & Owen

Mr teX
06-20-2007, 11:24 AM
He's right, I'd do it too...



Signed,

Andrew & Owen

:rofl:

Texanmike02
06-20-2007, 06:35 PM
I count 27 guys who rushed for 900+ yards last season, and 24 who rushed for 1,000 +

AKA, 1000 yards aint all that...

1000 yards is 66 yards a game. So you're right its not all that special. It used to be that teams didn't pass as much so the clock ran faster. Also you saw alot more 8 in the box than you see these days. To me the benchmark for a "franchise" type running back is somewhere between 1200-1300 yards. That puts you at about 85 yards a game....

I wrote about it before the merger of the boards. Teams are going with the running back by committee alot more now. In fact the top teams nearly every year don't have one premier back but rather two that split carries. I don't remember the numbers but its been forever since the leading rusher also won the SB and concluded that teams pay two guys about 65-70% of what they pay a "premier back" which does two things. It keeps both backs fresh and it frees up significant money to add talent at other spots on the roster. If you look at teams like the Colts, the Bucs and the Patriots they all won it with RB by committee. I believe you have to go back to the Cowboys (beginning of the real salary cap era) to find a leading rusher who also won the superbowl. The closest to the leader since Smith was Faulk I think at around 1300-1400 yards. I don't remember the exact numbers but since the Cowpies won it the leading rusher on a team (not including qb's in the %) had an average of 65-70% of the rushing yards of the team, if it was that much.

Mike