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Honoring Earl 34
06-18-2007, 02:15 PM
Just because it's slow .

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/06/17/qbs/index.html

Mr teX
06-18-2007, 02:33 PM
Absolute garbage........

No way VY should be that high after 1 avg. to below avg. year.

& no matter how you slice it Mr. Kang' Jon Kitna is not better than McNabb, Roethlisberger & Favre. 3 QB's who've each led their teams to superbowls.

Goldensilence
06-18-2007, 04:38 PM
Kitna had better Stats but his team finished the season with the second pick of the draft. McNabb prior to another freak injury was putting up career numbers.

I think it took a while for big Ben to get back mentally into playing shape myself and i expect a bounce back type of year for him.

Was i the only one entertained about the Schaub/Vick Comments?

The VY comments are laughable but i'll hold reservations until next year.

I think Cutler will make some noise next year in Denver though. I said it before and i'll say it again out of the big three QB's drafted last year Cutler will have the better career.

Honoring Earl 34
06-18-2007, 04:48 PM
You don't see or here about how the Texans got screwed anymore ... at least by the Falcon fans . :texflag:

real
06-18-2007, 04:55 PM
When you base your opinion off of stats and media hype, this is what you get

swtbound07
06-18-2007, 05:56 PM
Peter King is a racist ****bag. Look at the "intangibles"......the intangibles list is code for being lily white. average out the black qb's intangibles and the white qb's intangibles, and then look down the list......apparently jon kitna has more "it" than steve mcnair. *****. He should be banned from breathing.

Blazing Arrow
06-18-2007, 06:22 PM
What I've done: ranked the 2007 starting quarterbacks in the league from 1 to 32, from Manning (Peyton) to Croyle (Brodie). The rankings are in the order of who will have the best seasons in 2007 and 2007 only.

read what he is saying. He ranks Kitna higher then others due to his team, and King is basing this on the 2007 stats as he estimates them.

Roy Willimas and C Johnson are going to be a nice group for a salty vet like Kitna. I could see him having a solid season if his line can keep him off the ground. I mean in that group who gets the double? Leave CJ alone or in S coverage I can not see that being good, same with Williams.

Young I am bias so I will hold my comments.

McNabb has what? He is expected to come back next season. Most likely he will not be at full speed and take allot of pressure. With the loss of Stallworth I do not see many options. It could be a long season for the birds.

TexanSam
06-18-2007, 11:45 PM
Peter King is a racist ****bag. Look at the "intangibles"......the intangibles list is code for being lily white. average out the black qb's intangibles and the white qb's intangibles, and then look down the list......apparently jon kitna has more "it" than steve mcnair. *****. He should be banned from breathing.

I disagree with your thought of Peter King being racist. But we all have our own opinions. I just think you're wrong.

And I would take Kitna over McNair right now if I had to choose one or the other.

Goldensilence
06-19-2007, 12:08 AM
[QUOTE=Blazing Arrow;682137

McNabb has what? He is expected to come back next season. Most likely he will not be at full speed and take allot of pressure. With the loss of Stallworth I do not see many options. It could be a long season for the birds.[/QUOTE]

Overall Kitna has never been a BAD QB...but i think his best Season was in Cinci with 8-8 pre Carson Palmer. I do agree on CJ and Williams though...assuming Roy keeps quiet and plays football.

McNair has had an MVP Kitna could never say that...much less get a sniff of one.

McNabb will be fine next year. They added Kevin Curtis opposite Reggie Brown, have a solid TE in LJ, and Brian Westbrook finally had a healthy Season(he was the reason they made the playoff push, not Garcia.) Overall they hada solid draft...though after signing Feeley to a deal and making Kolb their first pick does puzzle me.I thought i heard a trade to the bears rumor.....that would be a sick team.

Mr teX
06-19-2007, 08:34 AM
read what he is saying. He ranks Kitna higher then others due to his team, and King is basing this on the 2007 stats as he estimates them.

Roy Willimas and C Johnson are going to be a nice group for a salty vet like Kitna. I could see him having a solid season if his line can keep him off the ground. I mean in that group who gets the double? Leave CJ alone or in S coverage I can not see that being good, same with Williams.

Young I am bias so I will hold my comments.

McNabb has what? He is expected to come back next season. Most likely he will not be at full speed and take allot of pressure. With the loss of Stallworth I do not see many options. It could be a long season for the birds.

Are you serious? So Stallworth is gone, considering who the guy was throwing to all those years when they lost the NFC Championship
games (Todd Stinkston & James Trash) I'd say He doesn't need much to put up great stats & have a winning team. Lets not even mention how many games Stallworth missed with injury & what Mcnabb was doing prior to his injury last year.

infantrycak
06-19-2007, 09:30 AM
Look at the "intangibles"......the intangibles list is code for being lily white.

Yeah, the intangibles are just to keep the black man down.

Signed,

Vince Young

Maddict5
06-19-2007, 09:33 AM
Peter King is a racist ****bag. Look at the "intangibles"......the intangibles list is code for being lily white. average out the black qb's intangibles and the white qb's intangibles, and then look down the list......apparently jon kitna has more "it" than steve mcnair. *****. He should be banned from breathing.

i didnt get that at all tbh..

anyway he seems to think schaub will be pretty good so thats a +:texflag:

BeerTastesLikeVictory
06-19-2007, 10:30 AM
i didnt get that at all tbh..

anyway he seems to think schaub will be pretty good so thats a +:texflag:

I did not get it either. I think he is trying to hard. Anyhow, Schaub at #19 is fair enough. I think he will be good as well, but realistically you can throw him in the upper tier until he has a few games under his belt.

swtbound07
06-19-2007, 11:24 AM
Average white QB intangible rating: 6.6
Average black QB intangible rating: 5.4

Goldensilence
06-19-2007, 11:30 AM
Are you serious? So Stallworth is gone, considering who the guy was throwing to all those years when they lost the NFC Championship
games (Todd Stinkston & James Trash) I'd say He doesn't need much to put up great stats & have a winning team. Lets not even mention how many games Stallworth missed with injury & what Mcnabb was doing prior to his injury last year.

In Case you haven't checked Tood Pinkston has rightfully been released. James Thrash might still be with Washington.

As far as what McNabb was doing PRIOR to his injury

180/316 for a 58.2 completion percentage with 2647 yards
8.38 Yards per completion with the longest being 91 yards
18 to 6 TD/INT ratio

You'd have be crazy not to take those kind of numbers prior to his injury. I might add that even with that severly inept receiving corps...they made the NFC championship several times. To me that says something in itself. Speaking when is the last time we made it to ONE?

Some people have a hangup on Philly understandably. I became a fan during the Cunningham days and followed through ever since. I do think some people want to Hose Donovan despite everything he's accomplished and been through.

infantrycak
06-19-2007, 11:33 AM
Average white QB intangible rating: 6.6
Average black QB intangible rating: 5.4

Well your boy Vick is bringing the average down with his pure tangible only negative intangibles. McNair is existing on intangibles at this point and of course Young is off the charts. Despite McNabb's play, he hasn't built a consensus in his own locker room. Where's the conspiracy.

Beer and Metal
06-19-2007, 12:47 PM
Average white QB intangible rating: 6.6
Average black QB intangible rating: 5.4

You're not considering sample size.

Would you rather have a .300 hitter with 25 at-bats or a .750 hitter with 4 at-bats?

Immobilarity
06-19-2007, 12:54 PM
I'm more interested in the one with 4 at bats!

Regardless, I can't take Peter King all that serious. Every article he ends with comments about Starbucks coffee.

smh, real men don't need that frappucino/mochalatte stuff. I'm even disgusted at myself for even knowing those drinks.

Honoring Earl 34
06-19-2007, 01:35 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6620150

Yankee_In_TX
06-19-2007, 01:36 PM
Yeah, the intangibles are just to keep the black man down.

Signed,

Vince Young

Bwahahah. Sorry, that was funny.

Lucky
06-19-2007, 01:49 PM
Peter King is a racist ****bag. Look at the "intangibles"...
I can see your point. But couldn't King just be an imbecile football writer, rather than a racist? That's how I've always classified him.


smh, real men don't need that frappucino/mochalatte stuff. I'm even disgusted at myself for even knowing those drinks.

Thanks for the humor injection. :laughjump:

Honoring Earl 34
06-19-2007, 02:02 PM
I'm more interested in the one with 4 at bats!

Regardless, I can't take Peter King all that serious. Every article he ends with comments about Starbucks coffee.

smh, real men don't need that frappucino/mochalatte stuff. I'm even disgusted at myself for even knowing those drinks.

http://photos1.blogger.com/x/blogger/7016/3128/1600/291267/coffee_art_05.jpg

TD
06-19-2007, 02:20 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6620150

Interesting. (The link is all time NFL QB draft busts)

3. Any quarterback drafted in 1978 (except Doug Williams)

Fourteen quarterbacks were selected in the 1978 NFL Draft. Out of those 14 quarterbacks, only first-round choice Doug Williams and Bill Kenney, the draft's second-to-last pick, turned out to be quality NFL starters. Five of those 14 quarterbacks never even threw a single pass in the NFL. So, why am I bagging so hard on the 1978 NFL Draft? Well, because future Hall of Famer Warren Moon went undrafted in 1978, and had to pay his dues for years in the CFL. Even geting off to that late start, Moon threw for more yards in his NFL career (49,325) than every quarterback from the 1978 draft combined (46,630). That's pretty ridiculous. Plus, there were actually two teams (Miami and Green Bay) that had the nerve of drafting more than one quarterback that year not named Warren Moon. Good work, scouts. I can totally see how Moon flew under the radar, too. He was only the MVP of the '78 Rose Bowl.

Quarterbacks drafted instead of Warren Moon: Doug Williams, Matt Cavanaugh, Guy Benjamin, Mark Miller, Gifford Nielsen, Pete Woods, Mark Manges, Rob Hertel, Mike Reiker, Dennis Sproul, Keith Myers, John Hurley, Pat Ryan, and Bill Kenney.

I need to brush up on my NFL history. I always thought Moon went undrafted because he was black, but then I see Williams. :hmmm:

Lucky
06-19-2007, 02:29 PM
I need to brush up on my NFL history. I always thought Moon went undrafted because he was black, but then I see Williams. :hmmm:
I think the story is that, prior to the draft, some teams were high on Moon...as a tight end. Warren wanted to play QB, and signed with the CFL before the draft. Since Moon had already signed on in Edmonton, NFL teams didn't bother to draft him. Had teams not had interest in Moon as a tight end, Warren would have likely not signed on to play in Canada, and would have probably been a mid-late round NFL pick as a QB.

HOU-TEX
06-19-2007, 02:30 PM
Interesting. (The link is all time NFL QB draft busts)



I need to brush up on my NFL history. I always thought Moon went undrafted because he was black, but then I see Williams. :hmmm:

Just think what his stats would look like if he'd been drafted by the NFL coming out of college. He very well could've been the best QB in NFL history, statistically speaking. I just wish he could've gotten a Super Bowl victory playing with the Oilers.:cool:

Texan_Bill
06-19-2007, 02:34 PM
Interesting. (The link is all time NFL QB draft busts)



I need to brush up on my NFL history. I always thought Moon went undrafted because he was black, but then I see Williams. :hmmm:

In 1977, Vince Evans was drafted (which was prior to Doug Williams).

Texan_Bill
06-19-2007, 02:39 PM
Interesting link about the timeline of Black Quarterbacks: BQB Timeline (http://www.bqb-site.com/Timeline.htm)

hadaad
06-19-2007, 03:05 PM
I have a newspaper from 1980, the Edmonton Sun, which states "Warren Moon will retire an Eskimo". They signed him to a ten-year contract for a million dollars total. of course, 1983 finished and he and Hugh Campbell (who was still in the Eskimos Organization as late as last year) went to Houston.

TD
06-19-2007, 03:38 PM
I think the story is that, prior to the draft, some teams were high on Moon...as a tight end. Warren wanted to play QB, and signed with the CFL before the draft. Since Moon had already signed on in Edmonton, NFL teams didn't bother to draft him. Had teams not had interest in Moon as a tight end, Warren would have likely not signed on to play in Canada, and would have probably been a mid-late round NFL pick as a QB.

Wiki backs that up, although it says he went undrafted because he made it clear he wouldn't switch and then went to Canada after the draft. I'm not usually one to cry racism, but I do wonder if teams would have wanted to convert him if he were white.

Honoring Earl 34
06-19-2007, 03:43 PM
Wiki backs that up, although it says he went undrafted because he made it clear he wouldn't switch and then went to Canada after the draft. I'm not usually one to cry racism, but I do wonder if teams would have wanted to convert him if he were white.

Back then it was for different reasons . We know Moon could throw .

Two Nebraska QBs Scott Frost and Eric Crouch were white and converted because they were option QBs and could'nt pass well enough .

Texan_Bill
06-19-2007, 03:49 PM
I have a newspaper from 1980, the Edmonton Sun, which states "Warren Moon will retire an Eskimo". They signed him to a ten-year contract for a million dollars total. of course, 1983 finished and he and Hugh Campbell (who was still in the Eskimos Organization as late as last year) went to Houston.

Warren was unwanted on draft day; six years later, the 27-year-old quarterback was an unrestricted free agent back when star players rarely had such freedom. The bidding narrowed down to Houston and Seattle. Houston had two things that gave them the advantage: There was no established starting quarterback in Houston in 1983 and the Oilers had just hired his old Edmonton head coach, Hugh Campbell, who could help ease Moon's transition.


Full Article (http://www.houstonprofootball.com/team/qb.html)

Sneaky Oilers hired Hugh Campbell just so that they could swing the bidding wars...

Article on Hugh Campbell and his retirement: Hugh Campbell retires (http://www.cbc.ca/storyview/AOL/sports/national/2006/10/26/hugh-campbell.html?email)

Honoring Earl 34
06-19-2007, 03:54 PM
Full Article (http://www.houstonprofootball.com/team/qb.html)

Sneaky Oilers hired Hugh Campbell just so that they could swing the bidding wars...

Article on Hugh Campbell and his retirement: Hugh Campbell retires (http://www.cbc.ca/storyview/AOL/sports/national/2006/10/26/hugh-campbell.html?email)

Ladd Herzeg hired Campbell to entice Moon and fired him not soon afterward .

You Titan fans need to look up Ladd ... HE'S PART OF YOUR HERITAGE HA HA HA .

ps We get Earl , Moon , and the players . Y'all get Bud , Ladd , Jerry and the likes .

Texan_Bill
06-19-2007, 04:27 PM
Ladd Herzeg hired Campbell to entice Moon and fired him not soon afterward .

You Titan fans need to look up Ladd ... HE'S PART OF YOUR HERITAGE HA HA HA .

ps We get Earl , Moon , and the players . Y'all get Bud , Ladd , Jerry and the likes .

YUP.... remember it well. LMAO of with Ladd Herzeg....
We went from Bum to
Eddie Biles to
Chuck Studley and then
Hugh Campbell

Honoring Earl 34
06-19-2007, 05:06 PM
YUP.... remember it well. LMAO of with Ladd Herzeg....
We went from Bum to
Eddie Biles to
Chuck Studley and then
Hugh Campbell

Bud was told by Ladd that Biles could take Bum's place . Bum must have felt pressure to win because he started trading picks for older players ... Casper is the main guy .

We could'nt kick the door in and Bum was canned even though he took decent talent and made them the second best team in football .

In the mid 80's Mike Holovak esembled one of the most talented teams in the NFL and they hired Jerry Glanville .

http://www.jt-sw.com/football/pro/rosters.nsf/Annual/1987-hou

Texan_Bill
06-19-2007, 05:10 PM
In the mid 80's Mike Holovak esembled one of the most talented teams in the NFL and they hired Jerry Glanville .

I often think what a different coach could have done with the talent that was stockpiled in the mid 80's could have done. That O-line was incredible with Steinkuhler, Muncak and of course Mathews. Moon threw one of the prettiest long balls - evah...........Strong "D"...

I know that the Oilers had like 8 consecutive play-off appearances during the Glanville / Pardee teams (mid 80's to early 90's), but still..... what if......? *sighs*

Honoring Earl 34
06-19-2007, 05:14 PM
I often think what a different coach could have done with the talent that was stockpiled in the mid 80's could have done. That O-line was incredible with Steinkuhler, Muncak and of course Mathews.... I know that the Oilers had like 8 consecutive play-off appearances during the Glanville / Pardee teams (mid 80's to early 90's), but still..... what if......? *sighs*

I dare say that team is the only team in history with two HOF offensive lineman and never won a Super Bowl .

They also had Don Maggs and Bruce Davis .

On the DL Doug Smith , Ray Childress , William Fuller , and soon to be Sean Jones .

Texan_Bill
06-19-2007, 05:26 PM
I dare say that team is the only team in history with two HOF offensive lineman and never won a Super Bowl .

They also had Don Maggs and Bruce Davis .

On the DL Doug Smith , Ray Childress , William Fuller , and soon to be Sean Jones .

Dont forget, they didnt quit drafting O-lineman there. Brad Hopkins, Jon Runyan who went on the be pretty good O-linemen in their own right... WOW.

Doug Smith is the largest human being I have ever met in my life.... William Fuller was one of the most quiet people I have ever met and Sean Jones was one of the most articulate... They could all ball a little bit too...

Honoring Earl 34
06-19-2007, 05:52 PM
Dont forget, they didnt quit drafting O-lineman there. Brad Hopkins, Jon Runyan who went on the be pretty good O-linemen in their own right... WOW.

Doug Smith is the largest human being I have ever met in my life.... William Fuller was one of the most quiet people I have ever met and Sean Jones was one of the most articulate... They could all ball a little bit too...

They played some good football and in the Buddy Ryan 94 season ... I thought they may have a chance but it was just clouds in my coffee .

Lucky
06-19-2007, 06:36 PM
Two Nebraska QBs Scott Frost and Eric Crouch were white and converted because they were option QBs and could'nt pass well enough .

I'm not usually one to cry racism, but I do wonder if teams would have wanted to convert him if he were white.

I don't think it's a recent phenomenon that college QBs have been asked to switch positions. Looking through drafthistory.com, I can see other QBs who were asked to switch positions or went to Canada to avoid such treatment. Joe Theismann had to go CFL after an All-American career at Notre Dame, else be switched to WR/PR by Don Shula. The Oilers drafted Iowa State QB George Amundson in the 1st round to play RB. In '81, Jim Jenson went from Boston College QB to RB/TE/Special team star for Miami. Rich Gannon was drafted by the Pats in 1987, but he refused to sign with them because they wanted him to move to RB. New England did switch former Georgia QB Andy Johnson to RB in '74. Kansas QB Nolan Cromwell moved to FS for the Rams in 1977. All of these guys are white college QBs who were contemporaries of Warren Moon's and asked to make position changes in the NFL.

I'm not suggesting that there has never been racism in the NFL. But if you want to point a finger, look first at the major colleges. They weren't producing many black QBs. It's no coincidence that both James Harris and Doug Williams came out of a black college. That's where they had to play, if they wanted to play QB.

Honoring Earl 34
06-20-2007, 09:10 AM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/06/19/mailbag/index.html

Honoring Earl 34
06-20-2007, 11:11 AM
http://nfl.com/news/story/10230829