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Lucky
06-12-2007, 12:08 PM
I just got around to reading this article from The Chronic (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/4877992.html). Here's a quote from Texans owner Bob McNair:
"In this league, you really need 18-21 quality players if you want to be in the playoffs every year, and we're building to that," owner Bob McNair said. "We're not there yet, but we're very close, and that's why we think we'll be competitive this year and why we think we'll be competing for a playoff spot. That's our goal."18-21 "quality" players? And the Texans are "very close"? OK, what constitutes a quality player? And just how close are they to the magic 18-21 level?


Any team would want these guys in their lineup:
1. DeMeco Ryans
2. Andre Johnson
3. Dunta Robinson

Most assume these guys will become high quality players:
4. Mario Williams
5. Matt Schaub
6. Amobi Okoye

These are some vet players who are of proven quality, if not Pro Bowlers:
7. Anthony Weaver
8. Ahman Green
9. Chester Pitts

Young guys who could become quality players soon:
10. Owen Daniels
11. Eric Winston
12. Charles Spencer
13. Travis Johnson

Players with quality skills in limited roles (yeah, I'm reaching now):
14. Jerome Mathis
15. Vonta Leach

Have I forgotten about some players? Have I given too much credit to others? If 18-21 quality players are really needed to contend for the playoffs, just how close are the Texans?

gwallaia
06-12-2007, 12:12 PM
I fear Charles Spencer, Chester Pitts and Travis Johnson should be removed from that list.

I wonder where he got the 18-21 number?

Double Barrel
06-12-2007, 01:11 PM
I read that article, as well, and thought the McNair quote was a bit of positive PR spin. Nothing wrong with blind optimism, I suppose, especially from the owner. But when you look up and down the roster, it is tough to reconcile his words with the reality of the situation.

TheRealJoker
06-12-2007, 01:16 PM
By quality do you think he means game changing? Or just solid guys that wont lose games for you?

infantrycak
06-12-2007, 01:17 PM
By quality do you think he means game changing? Or just solid guys that wont lose games for you?

I think he means you shouldn't have more than 1-3 guys starting on your team who shouldn't be starters in the NFL.

Porky
06-12-2007, 01:21 PM
I read that article a couple of days ago, and my first thought is what constitutes a quaility player in his mind? If it means above average starter at the given position, I don't think many, if any, teams would have 20 or so of those. Could quality players also mean backups? If I have a quality backup, does that mean he is a quality player? It's all left up to the reader to decide.

I was just really preplexed myself. There was no subtance to it, and no attempt to clarify the statement at all in the paper. The possible definitions are so broad as to make the whole statement meaningless without some sort of context. :devilpig:

nunusguy
06-12-2007, 01:22 PM
I dunno how Big Bob can figure we're "we're very close" because according to my calculations we're much more in the 9-10 ballpark, which means we're only 'bout half-way home.

Mr teX
06-12-2007, 01:23 PM
I just got around to reading this article from The Chronic (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/4877992.html). Here's a quote from Texans owner Bob McNair:
18-21 "quality" players? And the Texans are "very close"? OK, what constitutes a quality player? And just how close are they to the magic 18-21 level?


Any team would want these guys in their lineup:
1. DeMeco Ryans
2. Andre Johnson
3. Dunta Robinson

Most assume these guys will become high quality players:
4. Mario Williams
5. Matt Schaub
6. Amobi Okoye

These are some vet players who are of proven quality, if not Pro Bowlers:
7. Anthony Weaver
8. Ahman Green
9. Chester Pitts

Young guys who could become quality players soon:
10. Owen Daniels
11. Eric Winston
12. Charles Spencer
13. Travis Johnson...................

Players with quality skills in limited roles (yeah, I'm reaching now):
14. Jerome Mathis................
15. Vonta Leach

Have I forgotten about some players? Have I given too much credit to others? If 18-21 quality players are really needed to contend for the playoffs, just how close are the Texans?

The bolded are too early to tell, those with the dots are suspect either b/c they are injury prone or b/c they haven't shown much since being in the league. & with Schaub we just don't know. so that leaves us about. 6 or 7 players we know we can count on game in & out.

Marcus
06-12-2007, 01:30 PM
I read that article, as well, and thought the McNair quote was a bit of positive PR spin. Nothing wrong with blind optimism, I suppose, especially from the owner. But when you look up and down the roster, it is tough to reconcile his words with the reality of the situation.

I've had trouble reconciling Bob's words with the reality of the situation for about 2 or 3 years now. And I DO have a problem with blind optimism, but like someone pointed out . . . it's the month of June, where blind optimism rules the day.:rolleyes:

I do agree with him, that you need 18-21 "quality" players to be a playoff team. Where I don't agree with him, is on the "we're close" part.

The definition of a "quality" player is subjective. I prefer to go along with Kubiak's viewpoint that they are still "a couple of drafts away" from what he considers to be a "good" football team.

powerfuldragon
06-12-2007, 01:33 PM
I wonder where he got the 18-21 number?
his rectum?

TK_Gamer
06-12-2007, 01:35 PM
I just got around to reading this article from The Chronic (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/4877992.html). Here's a quote from Texans owner Bob McNair:
18-21 "quality" players? And the Texans are "very close"? OK, what constitutes a quality player? And just how close are they to the magic 18-21 level?


Any team would want these guys in their lineup:
1. DeMeco Ryans
2. Andre Johnson
3. Dunta Robinson

Most assume these guys will become high quality players:
4. Mario Williams
5. Matt Schaub
6. Amobi Okoye

These are some vet players who are of proven quality, if not Pro Bowlers:
7. Anthony Weaver
8. Ahman Green
9. Chester Pitts

Young guys who could become quality players soon:
10. Owen Daniels
11. Eric Winston
12. Charles Spencer
13. Travis Johnson

Players with quality skills in limited roles (yeah, I'm reaching now):
14. Jerome Mathis
15. Vonta Leach

Have I forgotten about some players? Have I given too much credit to others? If 18-21 quality players are really needed to contend for the playoffs, just how close are the Texans?

I think you left out alot of quality players, we arent talking stars here, just people that can do their job. I believe that's what mcnair means by quality.

I'm not gonna make my list yet and get flamed, but I think you are about 5 to 8 guys short.

infantrycak
06-12-2007, 01:41 PM
I think you left out alot of quality players, we arent talking stars here, just people that can do their job. I believe that's what mcnair means by quality.

Agreed, and I am sure McNair was including Schaub in that.

vtech9
06-12-2007, 01:43 PM
if I was a player for the Texans, I would probably take affront to that statement if I wasn't one of the big name guys. On an NFL roster, you can bet that every player thinks that they are a quality player, and for the owner to come out and say that there aren't even 18 quality players on the roster is a slap in the face.

badboy
06-12-2007, 01:45 PM
A starter should be a quality player. 22 starters= 22 quality players. Another 3-4 that are back ups that might start for lower echelon team but are on way up or way down in career. A kicker and a punter. 27 to 28 players in my mind. We've got a long way to go based on what we know about the Texans today. You can project anything you want until ap layer proves himself.

badboy
06-12-2007, 01:48 PM
if I was a player for the Texans, I would probably take affront to that statement if I wasn't one of the big name guys. On an NFL roster, you can bet that every player thinks that they are a quality player, and for the owner to come out and say that there aren't even 18 quality players on the roster is a slap in the face.
If you think that the guy who signs your check does not consider you a quality player, maybe you should step up and prove him wrong or just shut up and cash the check.

Specnatz
06-12-2007, 01:49 PM
if I was a player for the Texans, I would probably take affront to that statement if I wasn't one of the big name guys. On an NFL roster, you can bet that every player thinks that they are a quality player, and for the owner to come out and say that there aren't even 18 quality players on the roster is a slap in the face.

Then maybe they will prove it. When you not gotten to a winning record how else would even the fans look at that.

nunusguy
06-12-2007, 01:52 PM
I am sure McNair was including Schaub in that.
I imagine he was and while I totally, completely support the trade to bring MS over here, nevertheless I would rate MS no more than a perceived quality player and certainly not a known quality player.

V Man
06-12-2007, 02:04 PM
I just got around to reading this article from The Chronic (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/4877992.html). Here's a quote from Texans owner Bob McNair:
18-21 "quality" players? And the Texans are "very close"? OK, what constitutes a quality player? And just how close are they to the magic 18-21 level?


Any team would want these guys in their lineup:
1. DeMeco Ryans
2. Andre Johnson
3. Dunta Robinson

Most assume these guys will become high quality players:
4. Mario Williams
5. Matt Schaub
6. Amobi Okoye

These are some vet players who are of proven quality, if not Pro Bowlers:
7. Anthony Weaver
8. Ahman Green
9. Chester Pitts

Young guys who could become quality players soon:
10. Owen Daniels
11. Eric Winston
12. Charles Spencer
13. Travis Johnson

Players with quality skills in limited roles (yeah, I'm reaching now):
14. Jerome Mathis
15. Vonta Leach

Have I forgotten about some players? Have I given too much credit to others? If 18-21 quality players are really needed to contend for the playoffs, just how close are the Texans?

First I would change the second set title to something like should be solid players with the potential to be really good.

Second I would move Leach to third group (remeber the Giants wanted him).

Third Players that should be removed Travis Johnson (no comment needed) and Spencer (have to wait to see on him).

Fourth Players that could be added....

Marion Greenwood (not counting his salary) he is a solid player in this league, he started for the Dolphins and could play for several other teams in this league.

Ron Dayne- had several visits to other teams and if used right can help a team.

Fred Weary could become a quality player if he continues to develop.

Clark and Barber like Dayne can be useful players if used right.

All things said, I think we have and (have had) some good players on this team, but it is the coaches using the right schemes for the them, for the players to be successful. Look at Jabar Gaffney, didn't do as much as we wanted from him here, but later goes to New England and has some success.

Double Barrel
06-12-2007, 02:13 PM
I prefer to go along with Kubiak's viewpoint that they are still "a couple of drafts away" from what he considers to be a "good" football team.

I agree, as well.

I think there is more substance in Kubiak's quote from the article:

Kubiak liked what he saw from players during offseason training activities, especially from a competitive standpoint. With additions such as Shawn Barber, Danny Clark and Jamar Fletcher, starters are being pushed more than in the past.

"Where are we at?" Kubiak said. "We're better. How much better are we going to be? We haven't played yet, so I can sit here and tell you how much better we are practicing and how cleaner we are practicing. One thing I do feel good about is the competition of our team is such that it has to get better."

Kubiak said that's the biggest difference he senses from a year ago.

"This is no easy football team to make this year," Kubiak said. "In all honesty, I couldn't say that last year."

Kubiak seems less inclined to blow smoke, and like mentioned above, he still thinks we are a couple of drafts away from being a "good" football team. I think the 2007 team will definitely be a lot more competitive and more consistent in staying in games, which will be a big upgrade from the past five seasons. And while I'm drinking some 9-7 koolaide, I am very aware that this perspective is based on illusion more than reality at this point in time.

hollywood_texan
06-12-2007, 03:08 PM
I really don't have the time right now.

But, maybe someone can through the following rosters and see if it follows McNair's theory:

1. Patriots
2. Colts
3. Chargers

I don't think it takes that many quality players (what is that definition anyway?) to make a playoff team.

2 to 3 star players are what makes a team a playoff team. That's my theory. Those star players make your average players perform to the level of quality players.

Take away one of those star players, and all of a sudden, that playoff team becomes average.

I think McNair is just wrong and probably the biggest reason why the Texans are having their troubles. His flawed football logic impacts personnel decisions on several levels. McNair, PLEASE STAY OUT PERSONNEL DECISIONS IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM!!!!

infantrycak
06-12-2007, 03:55 PM
I don't think it takes that many quality players (what is that definition anyway?) to make a playoff team.

I think McNair is just wrong and probably the biggest reason why the Texans are having their troubles. His flawed football logic impacts personnel decisions on several levels. McNair, PLEASE STAY OUT PERSONNEL DECISIONS IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM!!!!

So you admit you don't know what he meant and then vehemently condemn him. Okie Dokie.

real
06-12-2007, 03:57 PM
Can you really fault the man for stating his opinion ? His opinion of who is a quality player may just be different from yours...look at the varying opinions on quality players within the small sampling of this thread...

infantrycak
06-12-2007, 04:10 PM
Add NFL in front of quality and then compare to the 2002 Texans. Just take a look at the number of players out of the league after that season or the next:
James Allen, Jarrod Baxter, Avion Black, Pat Dennis, Jujuan Dawson, Erik Flowers, Demingo Graham, Jimmy Herndon, Jabari Holloway, Jermaine Lewis, Keith Mitchell, Ryan Schau, Matt Stevens and on and on. Especially on O, that team was lacking quality players. Heck, Pitts, Weary and McKinney are the only guys from that O still starting.

hollywood_texan
06-12-2007, 04:25 PM
So you admit you don't know what he meant and then vehemently condemn him. Okie Dokie.

I should feel comfortable that someone is in charge/making important decisions and can't explain what they're doing or their processes clearly? I see your point but you need to look at my statement from a different perspective.

Like this, that is how people get fired from their jobs saying stuff like that with poor to marginal results. There is no condemning, just like Carr wasn't condemned, just fired, hit the bricks, etc.

Fortunately for McNair, he is the boss, so he isn't going to get fired as long he can sign the checks. But, that becomes problematic for the fans of the Texans.

The more the Texans struggle, and the only consistent is McNair constantly meddling in personnel decisions and strategey, the more I come to the conclusion the biggest problem the Texans have being successful on the football field is McNair himself.

infantrycak
06-12-2007, 04:37 PM
The more the Texans struggle, and the only consistent is McNair constantly meddling in personnel decisions and strategey, the more I come to the conclusion the biggest problem the Texans have being successful on the football field is McNair himself.

Other than Carr, I haven't seen any evidence of meddling in personnel decisions. This was just a hey we are excited about the team statement. I think you are reading way too much into it.

The Pencil Neck
06-12-2007, 04:38 PM
Have I forgotten about some players? Have I given too much credit to others? If 18-21 quality players are really needed to contend for the playoffs, just how close are the Texans?

Well, you pulled up 15. So, that's only 3 shy, right? That's pretty close.

We just need a few guys to step up. :)

hollywood_texan
06-12-2007, 04:45 PM
Other than Carr, I haven't seen any evidence of meddling in personnel decisions. This was just a hey we are excited about the team statement. I think you are reading way too much into it.

Maybe so.

But, McNair has meddled more than the Carr decision.

For example, requiring last year's (2006) first round draft pick be signed before draft day. Which was requirement of the first round for 2002. Let your coaching staff take the best player it needs and figure out the finances later.

It seems to me that McNair doesn't micro manage personnel (except for the QB position) but puts undue stipulations that possibly prevent the coaching staff from acquiring the most talented personnel. Further, he has some flawed logic in his football knowledge from the quotes I have read, just my opinion of course.

I really would like him to just sign checks and take a back seat. If he doesn't trust Kubiak/Smith, what's the point?

Maybe he does trust them, but he should lay low on commenting about personnel decisions/strategy in my opinion. When he talks about that stuff, I have zero confidence in what he says. And it appears I am not the only wondering about his comments, because that seems to be the point of this thread, figuring out what he said and what he means.

Double Barrel
06-12-2007, 04:45 PM
Pitts, Weary and McKinney are the only guys from that O still starting.

It makes you wonder....if the media's perception is that our o-line has been so horrible for so long...how are these guys still on the team after five seasons?... :whistle:

Other than Carr, I haven't seen any evidence of meddling in personnel decisions.

Well, to be fair, it does seem like it was McNair's decision to have our 2006 draft pick signed before draft day by all accounts. Although, I'm not sure how much meddling it is to choose between Mario and Reggie as much as it is conditional. Either way, we were getting a quality player.

But I think McNair is a good owner. A noob to be sure, so he'll make some mistakes. However, compared with a lot of other NFL owners, we've got a great one.

FirstTexansFan
06-12-2007, 04:47 PM
You've got a billion dollars, you buy a football team. You're dumber than a box of bricks. Irregardless, you can have any opinion you desire, and you can meddle as often as you please. I'd point out two that come to mind. Jerry Jones, and Bud Adams. When I think of those two, McNair seems like a godsend to me. So as a fan, though I may totally disagree with his opinion or his alleged meddling, I don't have the billion dollars to correct the problem....any one care to loan me some money? :)

infantrycak
06-12-2007, 04:57 PM
Well, to be fair, it does seem like it was McNair's decision to have our 2006 draft pick signed before draft day by all accounts.

See I have seen three different stories, not all mutually exclusive. One, that McNair/Casserly thought Bush was lying about the house for his parents. One, that he wanted the pick signed. And one, that Kubiak flat out picked Mario as the guy he wanted--McClain did a detailed account of this one for the last 48 hours before the draft. McClain has also asserted the signing thing wasn't an issue because Bush and the Texans weren't far apart when they switched trains and decided to go with McNair. Fact is we just don't know, but I haven't seen any evidence of flat out lying by Kubiak yet so I lean toward him having made the choice.

hollywood_texan
06-12-2007, 04:58 PM
You've got a billion dollars, you buy a football team. You're dumber than a box of bricks. Irregardless, you can have any opinion you desire, and you can meddle as often as you please. I'd point out two that come to mind. Jerry Jones, and Bud Adams. When I think of those two, McNair seems like a godsend to me. So as a fan, though I may totally disagree with his opinion or his alleged meddling, I don't have the billion dollars to correct the problem....any one care to loan me some money? :)

I don't think it is about him not being the owner of the Texans or comparing him to any other owner.

He needs to understand what he is good at, do that, delegate the rest to qualified individuals without putting too many restrictions that can hinder results on the field.

I don't think is a bad owner per se. It's like an annual personnel review of an employee. Just because you point to areas of improvement doesn't mean you want to fire the employee.

I am merely pointing to an area for improvement. Other than that issue, McNair seems to be a great owner.

Double Barrel
06-12-2007, 05:09 PM
See I have seen three different stories, not all mutually exclusive. One, that McNair/Casserly thought Bush was lying about the house for his parents. One, that he wanted the pick signed. And one, that Kubiak flat out picked Mario as the guy he wanted--McClain did a detailed account of this one for the last 48 hours before the draft. McClain has also asserted the signing thing wasn't an issue because Bush and the Texans weren't far apart when they switched trains and decided to go with McNair. Fact is we just don't know, but I haven't seen any evidence of flat out lying by Kubiak yet so I lean toward him having made the choice.

Good point. I've heard all those stories, as well. And when looking at a Kubiak-style offense, neither Reggie nor Vince would have fit the system.

Plus I think Kubiak is sincere when he says that the success of the team is directly related to having a consistent pass rush, and picking Mario (and Okoye) is right in line with that philosophy.

Runner
06-12-2007, 05:59 PM
It makes you wonder....if the media's perception is that our o-line has been so horrible for so long...how are these guys still on the team after five seasons?...


Media? Go back 2-3 years on the board - it was almost everyone here's perception too. I got into some controversy many times in discussions about sack responsibility. I pointed out that if the LT had his man under control and the QB ran right past him escaping pressure in the middle, it wasn't the LTs fault - who didn't know the QB was coming - that the end just had to diengage, sidestep, and make the sack. I blamed it on the inside collapse and the QB. The majority opinion was the LT sucked. Get a new one.

A couple of the previous lineman should still be here. I believe the Texans gave up on good players too willingly to CYA other positions and inadequate coaching.

Then again, maybe the line has been horrible for so long because "these guys are still on the team"...chicken and egg, etc.


I expect some improvement this year, but I don't expect a top 10 line by any means.

Lucky
06-12-2007, 06:14 PM
But, maybe someone can through the following rosters and see if it follows McNair's theory:

2. Colts

I'll take the Colts:

Any team would want these guys in their lineup:
1. Peyton Manning
2. Dwight Freeney
3. Reggie Wayne
4. Marvin Harrison
5. Robert Mathis
6. Bob Sanders

Most assume these guys will become high quality players:
7. Joseph Addai
8. Dallas Clark

These are some vet players who are of proven quality, if not Pro Bowlers:
9. Jeff Saturday
10. Booger McFarland
11. Ryan Diem
12. Tarik Glenn
13. Raheem Brock
14. Gary Brackett

Young guys who could become quality players soon:
15. Marlin Jackson
16. Antoine Bethea
17. Anthony Gonzalez
18. Tony Ugoh

Players with quality skills in limited roles:
19. Adam Vinatieri
20. Hunter Smith

I think the Colts fall right into the 18-21 range. I think it's more likely that McNair is reciting some number than making it up on his own. Was it something Rick Smith said? Kubiak? Casserly? Reeves? Who knows? I think the difference between where the Texans are now, to where they need to be a playoff contender is:

Improved play from the LT position (a healthly Spencer would be great)
Consistent play at Center from McKinney or Flanagan
Decent production from the #2 WR
Someone to emerge as the FS
The kicking specialists to return to their '04 levels of production

I'm not talking about a trip to Arizona on February 3rd. I'm talking about looking at playoff tiebreakers over the last few weeks of the season. Sure, a lot of breaks would have to go the Texans way. But isn't it about time that the Texans got a few breaks?

hollywood_texan
06-12-2007, 06:23 PM
I'll take the Colts:

Any team would want these guys in their lineup:
1. Peyton Manning
2. Dwight Freeney
3. Reggie Wayne
4. Marvin Harrison
5. Robert Mathis
6. Bob Sanders

Most assume these guys will become high quality players:
7. Joseph Addai
8. Dallas Clark

These are some vet players who are of proven quality, if not Pro Bowlers:
9. Jeff Saturday
10. Booger McFarland
11. Ryan Diem
12. Tarik Glenn
13. Raheem Brock
14. Gary Brackett

Young guys who could become quality players soon:
15. Marlin Jackson
16. Antoine Bethea
17. Anthony Gonzalez
18. Tony Ugoh

Players with quality skills in limited roles:
19. Adam Vinatieri
20. Hunter Smith

I think the Colts fall right into the 18-21 range. I think it's more likely that McNair is reciting some number than making it up on his own. Was it something Rick Smith said? Kubiak? Casserly? Reeves? Who knows? I think the difference between where the Texans are now, to where they need to be a playoff contender is:

Improved play from the LT position (a healthly Spencer would be great)
Consistent play at Center from McKinney or Flanagan
Decent production from the #2 WR
Someone to emerge as the FS
The kicking specialists to return to their '04 levels of production

I'm not talking about a trip to Arizona on February 3rd. I'm talking about looking at playoff tiebreakers over the last few weeks of the season. Sure, a lot of breaks would have to go the Texans way. But isn't it about time that the Texans got a few breaks?

Cool...

Now if you take away Manning, Harrison, and Freeney and what do you have as a team?

Probably a team a lot like the Texans of 2006.

Your counting one guy that hasn't even played a down yet in the NFL, I am referring to Gonzalez.

I am not criticizing your analysis or what you did. It looks good, but all those other guys status as quality players, rely on the performance of Manning, Harrison, and Freeney. Which is really to my point regarding this theory by McNair.

Of course a team needs several quality players and depth, but very rarely is a team successful without at least 2 star players.

Double Barrel
06-12-2007, 06:26 PM
Media? Go back 2-3 years on the board - it was almost everyone here's perception too. I got into some controversy many times in discussions about sack responsibility. I pointed out that if the LT had his man under control and the QB ran right past him escaping pressure in the middle, it wasn't the LTs fault - who didn't know the QB was coming - that the end just had to diengage, sidestep, and make the sack. I blamed it on the inside collapse and the QB. The majority opinion was the LT sucked. Get a new one.

A couple of the previous lineman should still be here. I believe the Texans gave up on good players too willingly to CYA other positions and inadequate coaching.

Then again, maybe the line has been horrible for so long because "these guys are still on the team"...chicken and egg, etc.


I expect some improvement this year, but I don't expect a top 10 line by any means.

Good post, man. I put it on the 'media' just to avoid throwing any fans under the bus at this juncture in Texans history.

Obviously, the undertones that three of our linemen from 2002 are still here speaks volumes (in my mind) about sack responsibility. It is an age-old debate around these parts, and obviously we probably don't want to continue to dissect it at this point in time.

I do not expect any top 10 performances, either. But we do not need a top 10 line to be better than the first five seasons.

brakos82
06-12-2007, 06:27 PM
any one care to loan me some money? :)

I have a billion in RUssian, but it's only worth $5.68 :gun:

Il_Bruno
06-12-2007, 06:35 PM
Cool...

Now if you take away Manning, Harrison, and Freeney and what do you have as a team?

Probably a team a lot like the Texans of 2006.

Your counting one guy that hasn't even played a down yet in the NFL, I am referring to Gonzalez.

I am not criticizing your analysis or what you did. It looks good, but all those other guys status as quality players, rely on the performance of Manning, Harrison, and Freeney. Which is really to my point regarding this theory by McNair.

Of course a team needs several quality players and depth, but very rarely is a team successful without at least 2 star players.


what the heck were the Jets doing in the playoffs last year then? I guess there the exception to the rule?

Runner
06-12-2007, 06:39 PM
I put it on the 'media' just to avoid throwing any fans under the bus at this juncture in Texans history.


Not me! I like to compare history when it occured and how it is revised. You wouldn't be throwing any fans under the bus anyway. Readers will just nod their heads sagely and think, "Oh yeah - THOSE guys". :)

But we do not need a top 10 line to be better than the first five seasons.

Very true.

hollywood_texan
06-12-2007, 06:58 PM
what the heck were the Jets doing in the playoffs last year then? I guess there the exception to the rule?

Good point!

But the Jets were bumped from the playoffs very quickly from a divisional foe. Not sure what that really means in the total analysis.

I know McNair said the playoffs, but if any team is going to make a real push to go deep in the playoffs in the AFC, that team is going to need 2 to 3 star players. Having just 20 quality players isn't going to cut it or guarantee a playoff spot. 2 to 3 star players almost guarantees a shot at the playoffs if they are reasonably healthy.

Get those star players on your roster and probably the rest will take care of itself well with good personnel as a suppporting cast and great coaching.

My point is, focusing on getting 20 quality players shouldn't be the main priority, particularly with the salary cap and free agency. Get 2 to 3 star players that fit your system (untouchable players) and fill out the rest and make adjustments when necessary for whatever reason.

Team turnover is to quick to try and get 20 guys on your squad because they aren't going to be there that long for various reasons.

Maddict5
06-12-2007, 06:59 PM
Cool...

Now if you take away Manning, Harrison, and Freeney and what do you have as a team?

Probably a team a lot like the Texans of 2006.

Your counting one guy that hasn't even played a down yet in the NFL, I am referring to Gonzalez.

I am not criticizing your analysis or what you did. It looks good, but all those other guys status as quality players, rely on the performance of Manning, Harrison, and Freeney. Which is really to my point regarding this theory by McNair.

Of course a team needs several quality players and depth, but very rarely is a team successful without at least 2 star players.

2 guys: gonzalez and ugoh (who i dont like at all)

anyway this 'quality players' things isnt the be all and end all.. how many more 'quality players' did the 2006 colts have than the '2006 texans' when we beat them? 10+ right?

hollywood_texan
06-12-2007, 07:04 PM
2 guys: gonzalez and ugoh (who i dont like at all)

anyway this 'quality players' things isnt the be all and end all.. how many more 'quality players' did the 2006 colts have than the '2006 texans' when we beat them? 10+ right?

Thanks.

And to add, Gonzalez value is so high because a star player is going to be throwing the ball to him. Would Gonzalez be such a good pick for the Texans? Probably not. I think the Gonzalez pick could turn out very well for the Colts.

Anyway, it's a clear example how a star player makes a quality player. That is what the Colts are expecting from this draft pick.

The more I think about this quote (20-21 players) the more it concerns me and the general theory the Texans organization is running under.

Maddict5
06-12-2007, 07:11 PM
Thanks.

And to add, Gonzalez value is so high because a star player is going to be throwing the ball to him. Would Gonzalez be such a good pick for the Texans? Probably not. I think the Gonzalez pick could turn out very well for the Colts.

Anyway, it's a clear example how a star player makes a quality player. That is what the Colts are expecting from this draft pick.

The more I think about this quote (20-21 players) the more it concerns me and the general theory the Texans organization is running under.

i agree about your gonzalez theory

but what worries you about the texans theory of collecting quality players- when we're also picking up stars (or potential stars) on the team aswell

right now imo we have two bonafida stars: aj and demeco

but we have alot of guys who could emerge as stars before the end of this season: schaub, mario, amobi, dunta (and green might be in their too)

maybe im misinterpreting what you mean but i dont see the problem

hollywood_texan
06-12-2007, 07:22 PM
i agree about your gonzalez theory

but what worries you about the texans theory of collecting quality players- when we're also picking up stars (or potential stars) on the team aswell

right now imo we have two bonafida stars: aj and demeco

but we have alot of guys who could emerge as stars before the end of this season: schaub, mario, amobi, dunta (and green might be in their too)

maybe im misinterpreting what you mean but i dont see the problem

I guess I am saying you don't count your chickens before they hatch.

Definitley, AJ is a star player. We have one, which hard to for any team to get.

Demeco, he is on his way but we will find out this year if he deserves that title.

Schuab and Mario are expected to step into that star player status to some extent.

Dunta, I don't think so. Very good player, but I don't see it happening. I could be wrong, we will see what happens.

If Schuab steps up strong to star status (meaning strong recommendation but not quite there) and Demeco continues his pace with Mario showing that he can live up to expectations, the Texans will be force in the AFC South.

Having said that, I am only talking about 4 players in total. AJ and Schuab being star players with Demeco and Mario being on the cusp of star quality.

The Texans have that, the roster will fill itself out nicely with good personnel and a great scheme augmented by good coaching.

Managing 20 players just isn't practical and really isn't required in my opinion.

DBCooper
06-12-2007, 10:49 PM
What really jumps out about the team this year is not the amount of quality starters but the amount of quality depth. Having good depth behind your starters is what makes good football teams.

BattleRedToro
06-13-2007, 12:42 AM
Chester Pitts is not a Pro Bowl caliber player, and neither is Anthony Weaver.

dalemurphy
06-13-2007, 02:17 AM
Team improvement makes a lot of mediocre players become quality. In 1989, the Cowboys OLine was one of the worst I'd ever seen... by 1991, they were chalked full of probowlers. Oddly, the personnel on the oline didn't change, only the starting RB changed.

This is the ultimate team sport. A couple of player and a little experience and the number of "quality players" can jump from 5 to 20 in a hurry!

The Pencil Neck
06-13-2007, 02:24 AM
Team improvement makes a lot of mediocre players become quality. In 1989, the Cowboys OLine was one of the worst I'd ever seen... by 1991, they were chalked full of probowlers. Oddly, the personnel on the oline didn't change, only the starting RB changed.

This is the ultimate team sport. A couple of player and a little experience and the number of "quality players" can jump from 5 to 20 in a hurry!

One of the things I found interesting in the NFLN MiniCamp footage was when Schaub said he considers the o-line a strength of the team.

My first reaction was... does he REALLY believe that or is he just shamelessly sucking up?