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ccdude730
05-31-2007, 02:49 AM
from the chron...
Soon after the title change, the playbook started changing. Kubiak, formerly the Broncos' offensive coordinator, and Sherman have spent the past several months trying to combine what has worked best in both Denver and Green Bay.

Kubiak will still have final say in terms of play-calling, but he and Sherman will constantly talk.

Many of the new ideas have already been implemented during the organized team activities. Once minicamp ends in two weeks, the coaches will sit down to decide what is working and what isn't.

"At this point, I'd say, yeah, we've changed quite a bit of what we're doing," Kubiak said. "How much do we change when it's time to go? What our players are comfortable with? I don't know. I'm trying to get a feel for that right now."


Link (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/4849561.html)

i think its going to be pretty interesting what kind of changes kubiak thinks will benefit our team the best.

Texans_Chick
05-31-2007, 09:20 AM
Here's my take on things:

Texans FanHouse Link: "Mike Sherman as OC: What Does This Mean for the Texans Offense" (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/05/31/mike-sherman-as-oc-what-does-this-mean-for-the-texans-offense/)

The long and short of it is this: I'm not sure that two heads are better than one. I usually prefer having one offensive philosophy and doing whatever that is very well.

I'm thinking that the focus on the Denver style stuff is going away because the Texans don't have the personnel and the offensive line/running back coaching to run it. My Denver friends said that the biggest difficulty that the Texans would have in running their offense was getting the line blocking right.

But I suppose I get to wait and see and hope my worry is for nothing.

Lucky
05-31-2007, 10:05 AM
It's not like Sherman was an incompetent OC. His Packer team was top 6 in scoring during 4 of the 6 years he led the team. If this team can't run the Bronco offense effectively, it's incumbent on the coaching staff to find one they can be successful in. Frankly, I worry less about the coaches and the offense design than about the players themselves.

Texans_Chick
05-31-2007, 10:14 AM
It's not like Sherman was an incompetent OC. His Packer team was top 6 in scoring during 4 of the 6 years he led the team. If this team can't run the Bronco offense effectively, it's incumbent on the coaching staff to find one they can be successful in. Frankly, I worry less about the coaches and the offense design than about the players themselves.

From what I understand, Sherman isn't running the Green Bay offense. He is running a hybrid offense between the GB stuff and the Denver stuff and that Sherman is giving the playcalls to Kubiak who will give them to the QB.

Nobody knows what the track record of that particular form of hybrid offense.

New QB, new offense--hard to know what to expect.

HOU-TEX
05-31-2007, 10:19 AM
It's not like Sherman was an incompetent OC. His Packer team was top 6 in scoring during 4 of the 6 years he led the team. If this team can't run the Bronco offense effectively, it's incumbent on the coaching staff to find one they can be successful in. Frankly, I worry less about the coaches and the offense design than about the players themselves.

I agree. In addition, the WCO has been bastardized (is that a word) ever since the Walsh days by coaches adding their own little twists. If anything, I feel more confident having two of the better coaches in the NFL putting their own version of the WCO together.:cool:

real
05-31-2007, 10:20 AM
It's not like Sherman was an incompetent OC. His Packer team was top 6 in scoring during 4 of the 6 years he led the team. If this team can't run the Bronco offense effectively, it's incumbent on the coaching staff to find one they can be successful in. Frankly, I worry less about the coaches and the offense design than about the players themselves.

I'm with you...

They're just plays being run by players....

I don't see where the conflict is.....

It's pretty much common sense that if a certain play isn't suited for our offense they won't run it....I can't see them trying to force things....

IMHO, this is good news...

Texans_Chick
05-31-2007, 10:34 AM
I agree. In addition, the WCO has been bastardized (is that a word) ever since the Walsh days by coaches adding their own little twists. If anything, I feel more confident having two of the better coaches in the NFL putting their own version of the WCO together.:cool:

Their versions of the WCO do not appear to be terribly consistent. From my seats at Reliant, it was very obvious from the formations when they were running GB stuff and Denver stuff at times. And if it was GB stuff, it was very likely going to be a run.

In Shanahan's system, they try to make it such where the defense is off balance and you can rarely tell if it is a run or pass based on the formation or the personel in the game. That's why it is important in that system that the FB and the TEs can both block and catch.

In GB, they valued bigger offensive linemen. In Denver, not so much. The Texans have tried to get their linemen down to arbitrary weight numbers by use of fines. Great, big guys lose weight fast and then have a hard time at the beginning of the year doing the sort of power blocking that Sherman was asking them to do at times. (Egads, it reminds me of Pendry trying to do ZBS with whoever they can find in free agency at the time--Todd Wade, Victor Riley--knowing what your offensive philosophy is, and find the right players for that philosophy or tailoring that philosophy to the players you have)

Hey, nobody would be happier than me if this experiment works, but I'm also recognizing it as an experiment. An unknown.

Corrosion
05-31-2007, 10:39 AM
The fact that they will have the ability to line up in the shot gun will make me happy ........

nunusguy
05-31-2007, 10:51 AM
And we got mixed messages from this years Draft in terms of the type of OLineman that were signed. Frye & Tupola are clearly ZB guys, while Kubiaks family acquaintance Studdard is more of the drive-blocker type we'd associate with a power system which is unlike the speed and finese of the ZB schemes Denver runs. Not sure yet where center Lucas fits in those groupings ?

real
05-31-2007, 11:00 AM
I think people put too much emphasis on ZBS linemen Vs. Man blocking linemen....Of course you want your linemen to be quicker and more agile in the ZBS, but that doesn't mean a bigger, drive blocking linemen can't convert...

The ZBS is much more technique based than it is physical skill based....of course the guys with the superior skill will end up playing, but as a linemen in the ZBS if you are taking the right steps (meaning good technique), then you can get the job done...Technique is EVERYTHING to a linemen in the ZBS...

infantrycak
05-31-2007, 11:06 AM
The Texans have tried to get their linemen down to arbitrary weight numbers by use of fines.

In an interview on 610 am within the last month Chester Pitts was asked about weight specifications and he directly said they had not told him what he needed to weigh. Stuck out at the time because it seemed contradictory to other information we have received.

HuttoKarl
05-31-2007, 11:20 AM
As long as it implements some deep routes and our WR's can catch them, I'll be happy. That dink and dunk crap got so old.

3rd and 4, pass for five yards.
3rd and 8, pass for five yards.
3rd and 15, pass for five yards.

Lame.

real
05-31-2007, 11:25 AM
In an interview on 610 am within the last month he was asked about weight specifications and he directly said they had not told him what he needed to weigh. Stuck out at the time because it seemed contradictory to other information we have received.

Who is this "he" ?

Just curious...

Porky
05-31-2007, 11:27 AM
In an interview on 610 am within the last month he was asked about weight specifications and he directly said they had not told him what he needed to weigh. Stuck out at the time because it seemed contradictory to other information we have received.

Maybe I missed it in the thread, but can you clarify who the "he" is.

badboy
05-31-2007, 11:29 AM
Here's my take on things:

Texans FanHouse Link: "Mike Sherman as OC: What Does This Mean for the Texans Offense" (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/05/31/mike-sherman-as-oc-what-does-this-mean-for-the-texans-offense/)

The long and short of it is this: I'm not sure that two heads are better than one. I usually prefer having one offensive philosophy and doing whatever that is very well.

I'm thinking that the focus on the Denver style stuff is going away because the Texans don't have the personnel and the offensive line/running back coaching to run it. My Denver friends said that the biggest difficulty that the Texans would have in running their offense was getting the line blocking right.

But I suppose I get to wait and see and hope my worry is for nothing.

Were not a lot of the O linemen recently selected for their ability to block in the zone system? I thought much was made over the smaller, more agile type player required even though most of the guys are 300 + lbs.

infantrycak
05-31-2007, 11:29 AM
Who is this "he" ?

Just curious...

Sorry folks--Chester Pitts--fixed it now.

HOU-TEX
05-31-2007, 11:32 AM
As long as it implements some deep routes and our WR's can catch them, I'll be happy. That dink and dunk crap got so old.

3rd and 4, pass for five yards.
3rd and 8, pass for five yards.
3rd and 15, pass for five yards.

Lame.

I think the five yard routes were considered to be deep. lol.

I agree though, the offense was so methodical the second half of the season it was almost hypnotizing. Run, run, sack, punt; Run, run, sack fumble returned for TD; Run, run, bean cameraman with football, punt; Run, run, penalized for throwing 5 yds beyond LOS, punt.:wacko:

Texans_Chick
05-31-2007, 12:00 PM
In an interview on 610 am within the last month Chester Pitts was asked about weight specifications and he directly said they had not told him what he needed to weigh. Stuck out at the time because it seemed contradictory to other information we have received.

Interesting. Maybe it was a bigger emphasis last year and not this year.

I was told by a number of sources that there were weight numbers that the linemen needed to make last year or get fined per pound for not making that weight.

As an aside, one of the things that the ATL linemen are happiest about now that Alex Gibbs is gone is the weight-nazi stuff.

I do know that the strength training/nutrition staff traditionally aren't as keen on arbitrary weight numbers. Saw this year that the Texans had a "Bod Pod" in their weight room, but can't remember if that is relatively new. A Bod Pod is just about the most accurate way to determine body fat, especially body fat of athletes. Some other body fat measuring techniques aren't accurate on athletes.

The Pencil Neck
05-31-2007, 12:03 PM
This hybridization is something I've been concerned about for awhile now. TC and I have mentioned it several times.

From what they're saying, it sounds like they spent more time working out the differences this offseason. I think last year, Kubiak started to install a pure Denver system, realized he didn't have the right personnel, lucked into getting Sherman as an assistant, and then they threw the two playbooks together as well as they could under their time constraints.

This year, we hopefully won't see the obvious disconnect between different play types. We shouldn't be able to tell running vs. passing plays by the line spacing and other lineup things.

And hopefully, they'll base their blocking schemes on the available talent to maximize the talent.

I'm hopeful that this experiment will work. We've got a couple of rilly smrt guys working it out.

infantrycak
05-31-2007, 12:46 PM
Kubiak for one, thinks that the transition to Sherman to run the offense has been a smooth one.

“It’s been great,” he said. “It’s very challenging for me because Sherm’s got a tremendous mind. We have kind of moved on. What we tried to do this offseason is take my style and some of his style from Green Bay and we tried to tie the two together.”

And the two styles are not that dissimilar.

“We’ve both been down the same avenue as far as our teaching in this league,” Kubiak said. “We both grew up under the West Coast system. We both have strayed from it a little bit so we’re tying to come together as one and do what our team can do best.”

“He’s so challenged as a coach and the job he’s doing with the group is special. I tell those offensive coaches everyday, for them to get to work with that guy everyday is something. You can just tell the whole group is working very well together.”

The best player on offense thinks the move has gone well too.

“He pretty much worked with the (offensive line) last year and he was pretty much with them the whole time,” Andre Johnson said. “This year is my first chance really getting to work with him. Everyone is excited about it and he’s excited, so we’re just ready to get to work.”

From the horse's mouth. Sure would be nice to see what appeared to be an excited team.

Link (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=3374)

The prior day's report mentions them working on the shotgun. Be interesting to see if it actually gets used this year.

Double Barrel
05-31-2007, 01:05 PM
Last year the offense seemed like a work in progress, and there was not a lot of consistency from week to week.

Hopefully they will settle that down a bit this year and find something that works. I've got confidence in Kubiak, and hence Sherman, so I'm optimistic that we will see an offense that knows it's own strengths and plays them accordingly.

Obviously it's a 'time will tell' type of thing right now.

The Pencil Neck
05-31-2007, 01:12 PM
Interesting. Maybe it was a bigger emphasis last year and not this year.

I was told by a number of sources that there were weight numbers that the linemen needed to make last year or get fined per pound for not making that weight.

As an aside, one of the things that the ATL linemen are happiest about now that Alex Gibbs is gone is the weight-nazi stuff.

I do know that the strength training/nutrition staff traditionally aren't as keen on arbitrary weight numbers. Saw this year that the Texans had a "Bod Pod" in their weight room, but can't remember if that is relatively new. A Bod Pod is just about the most accurate way to determine body fat, especially body fat of athletes. Some other body fat measuring techniques aren't accurate on athletes.

We used to joke on some weight training forums that the only really accurate way to calculate body fat % is autopsy. Every other method is based on a lot of assumptions and on the skill of the person giving the test.

The most accurate is a good skinfold measurement method. But these methods (like Jackson/Pollock's 3/5/7 site methods) can have their accuracy vary by how good your skinfold calipers are and how good the person pinching the skin is and then, the estimates are based on "normal" bodyfat distribution models. If you have a different bodyfat distribution, it can skew the calculation. Electrical conductance methods are very sensitive to hydration and lots of muscle can mess everything up.

Some people mistakenly think that BMI calculates bodyfat percentage, but it doesn't. Some people put a percent sign after that number but BMI is not a percentage and anyone that does that should almost immediately be dismissed as an idjit. BMI is just a height to weight ratio. Fat weighs less than muscle and you actually get a "better" BMI number if you've got a high bodyfat percentage for your height. If you've got a lot of muscle, you weigh more and get a "bad" number.

Ooops. That came close to a rant. Sorry.

vtech9
05-31-2007, 02:03 PM
And we got mixed messages from this years Draft in terms of the type of OLineman that were signed. Frye & Tupola are clearly ZB guys, while Kubiaks family acquaintance Studdard is more of the drive-blocker type we'd associate with a power system which is unlike the speed and finese of the ZB schemes Denver runs. Not sure yet where center Lucas fits in those groupings ?

from watching some video on Enoka Lucas, I think he would fit the ZBS pretty well. He seems to be a very athletic Center, and moves pretty well. Actually, I think he will be good in either scheme. He just seems to have good body control and a very quick first step.

hollywood_texan
05-31-2007, 02:33 PM
The single most important factor in an offense in the NFL is the QB. It determines/limits what the offense you can run.

With that said, I don't think Schuab is like Favre. So, I don't expect a Green Bay ripoff. Likewise, Schuab doesn't seem to be like the prototypical Denver QB that they look for.

It seems to me the Texans offense next year is going to completely different from what we have seen in the past and will have some shades from Kubiak's and Sherman's previous coaching days.

My thought is it will be something all by itself similar to how the Denver offense is looked at today. Basically it's own system of sort.

Runner
05-31-2007, 06:35 PM
Chester Pitts was asked about weight specifications and he directly said they had not told him what he needed to weigh.

Smooth answer.

I may have asked, "Since they didn't tell you exactly what to weigh, did they give you a weight not to exceed?" Followed up by, "Was that number the same, greater then, or less then what you played at previous to the new coaches arriving?"

Then I'd have to ask him the same questions about last season. It seems they've changed policies.

Maybe it was a bigger emphasis last year and not this year.


Maybe because the one lineman they had that looked twice as strong as everyone else coincidentally was the only one not to make a draconian weight target last year.

Saw this year that the Texans had a "Bod Pod" in their weight room, but can't remember if that is relatively new.

I think they had it when Capers was here.

==========================

I'm with TC on the hybrid blocking scheme. It was a problem last year.