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TEXANS84
05-30-2007, 05:13 PM
Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban is part of a group considering formation of a football league that would compete with the NFL for players drafted lower than the second round.


The league, still very much in the preliminary stage, would play its games on Friday nights. The NFL does not play then because of the potential conflict with high school football.


"It's a pretty simple concept," Cuban said in an e-mail to The Associated Press. "We think there is more demand for pro football than supply."


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2887465

Il_Bruno
05-30-2007, 05:18 PM
this is ridiculous, the talent pool can barely hold well across the current 32 teams, much less an entire new league.


Mark Cuban is insane

GuerillaBlack
05-30-2007, 05:21 PM
Mark Cuban IS insane. This the XFL all over again.

thunderkyss
05-30-2007, 05:45 PM
Mark Cuban IS insane. This the XFL all over again.

The only problem with the XFL, was the TV monopoly of the NFL. There was no coverage on any news stations. & the stations/programs that mentioned the XFL, were cynical at best.

Sure, there wasn't a team in the XFL, that could hang with the Colts.. or the Patriots. But it wasn't bad football. It was in the off-season, and I for one, rather enjoyed it. I thought it was better than NFLE, in it's inaugural season. Given time, it could be as big as college football.


And, with players like Kurt Warner, Joe Horn, Jake Delhomme, Doug Flutie, and countless others who actually go unnoticed in these obscure leagues, how can you say the talent pool is too thin. Unless you believe NFL GMs never miss.

Marquez(sp) Colston Anyone??

Think about it. Our Starting QB has been sitting on someone else's bench for the last three years.

ATX
05-30-2007, 06:41 PM
How many leagues have there been now that have competed with the NFL? How many are still around? Only reason Arena Football works is because it's different.

Corrosion
05-30-2007, 07:06 PM
The only problem with the XFL, was the TV monopoly of the NFL. There was no coverage on any news stations. & the stations/programs that mentioned the XFL, were cynical at best.

Sure, there wasn't a team in the XFL, that could hang with the Colts.. or the Patriots. But it wasn't bad football. It was in the off-season, and I for one, rather enjoyed it. I thought it was better than NFLE, in it's inaugural season. Given time, it could be as big as college football.


And, with players like Kurt Warner, Joe Horn, Jake Delhomme, Doug Flutie, and countless others who actually go unnoticed in these obscure leagues, how can you say the talent pool is too thin. Unless you believe NFL GMs never miss.

Marquez(sp) Colston Anyone??

Think about it. Our Starting QB has been sitting on someone else's bench for the last three years.



I couldnt agree more .... And what else does Cuban have to do with his money other than let the next several generations of grand kids spend it ? :cool:

Would be nice if they would run their season in the NFL's offseason .... give us football junkies something to do other than wait for some snipet of news or the draft . :play:

dtran04
05-31-2007, 01:39 AM
I like how you can invest in a team. Makes it much more fun. I would probably watch it if it were in the offseason. During the season, on Friday nights, doubtful. Getting so called "2nd round picks" to sign with them instead of the NFL is also intriguing.

HoustonFrog
05-31-2007, 07:44 AM
I can watch football anytime but this experiment has failed too many times.

real
05-31-2007, 08:31 AM
I'd watch it....are you serious ?!

I can't believe we have football fans complaining about MORE football...

It would just be more exsposure for players that go unnoticed or fly under the radar....I liked the XFL, and I feel like the only reason it didn't survive was because of how it was treated in the media, and the monopoly of air time by the NFL....I like watching good football...NFLE is borderline terrible at times...I wouldn't mind having another quality football leauge...

Mr. White
05-31-2007, 08:43 AM
IIRC, the USFL did all right as long as they were a Spring and Summer league. It seems like they went under when they switched to a Fall schedule.

I watched on XFL game. I'll do the same for the new league. If I like it, I'll watch more.

Shaft75
05-31-2007, 08:44 AM
Are we seriously talking about this? Cuban is a JACKASS!

Kaiser Toro
05-31-2007, 08:59 AM
Anytime you have more demand than supply people with a lot of money get interested, make it happen and get out by turning a quick profit. There are so many channels looking for content and emerging markets in the US, specifically in the west. Moreover, what happens when the NFL attempts to go international? They will need to draw their talent pool for front office, operations and players from somewhere.

The value proposition for this seems to be sound in my opinion, but it still does not mean I would watch.

TexanAddict
05-31-2007, 09:38 AM
I'd watch it....are you serious ?!

I can't believe we have football fans complaining about MORE football...

It would just be more exsposure for players that go unnoticed or fly under the radar....I liked the XFL, and I feel like the only reason it didn't survive was because of how it was treated in the media, and the monopoly of air time by the NFL....I like watching good football...NFLE is borderline terrible at times...I wouldn't mind having another quality football leauge...

The players that will more than likely be playing in this new league are the same as those that are being allocated to NFLE, so the product on the field should be more or less the same quality. Kinda like NFLE US edition.

real
05-31-2007, 09:41 AM
The players that will more than likely be playing in this new league are the same as those that are being allocated to NFLE, so the product on the field should be more or less the same quality.

Read the article

Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban is part of a group considering formation of a football league that would compete with the NFL for players drafted lower than the second round.

awtysst
05-31-2007, 09:56 AM
If Cuban and the gang was smart, they would start their season in April and have their championship game on Labor Day. It is not smart to comptete head to head with the NFL. I am for more football and think that having it in spring in summer would be great. The problem with competing with the NFL is where would it be broadcast The Outdoor life channel? The NFL has contracts with Fox, CBS, ABC,and ESPN during the NFL season. However during April-Labor Day there is no NFL so theoretically this new league could be broadcast at that point.

Oh, and the reason the XFL failed was becuase of Vince McMahon. People didnt know if it would be fake like wrestling or a real event. Also the talant in the XFL wasnt too good. I mean HE HATE ME says it all.

Double Barrel
05-31-2007, 10:07 AM
I like football as much as the next guy, but I have a hard time watching 'bad football. And if it's not NFL or NCAA, it's probably going to be 'bad' football.

TexanAddict
05-31-2007, 10:11 AM
Read the article

I understand they would like to compete for players drafted below the 2nd, but realistically we are talking about 2nd day picks mostly. Players drafted in the 3rd at least have some job security in the NFL because they know the league won't fold in a year or two and most teams don't give up on their 3rd rounders for a few years if they are at least able to supply quality depth. I think the salary would have to be considerably higher in this new league, or the league would have to target players drafted by bad teams, to get any late first day, early second day players to defect. Otherwise, you're left with basically the same type players that are being allocated to NFLE.

Shaft75
05-31-2007, 10:18 AM
The NFL could use some healthy competition. I think that we could have teams in some of the markets that the NFL is missing. What a great idea to provide a league with some 3rd round - UFA talent and some bad apples that the NFL won't sign. It has to work!!!

Sincerely,
Vince McMahon

real
05-31-2007, 10:20 AM
I understand they would like to compete for players drafted below the 2nd, but realistically we are talking about 2nd day picks mostly. Players drafted in the 3rd at least have some job security in the NFL because they know the league won't fold in a year or two and most teams don't give up on their 3rd rounders for a few years if they are at least able to supply quality depth. I think the salary would have to be considerably higher in this new league, or the league would have to target players drafted by bad teams, to get any late first day, early second day players to defect. Otherwise, you're left with basically the same type players that are being allocated to NFLE.

That's one way to look at it...


Here's another:

If I'm a third rounder coming out of college, and this new leauge guarantees me more money than I'd be making in the NFL and basically guarantee me I'd be a starter, and quite possibly a star in the leauge I'd definitely consider it....There's talented players in every leauge from NFLE, to AFL, to these little semi-pro teams....IMO, it's not out of the realm of possibility that they could get some quality football players....look at all the players drafted in the 3rd, 4th, and 5th round this year....you have some guys that were 'stars' in college but because of issues off field slipped to later rounds...and you also have guys with semi-big names who slipped because of the combine or workouts....

No one is suggesting that the talent will be as good as the NFL, but if it is a step above or below the NCAA I'd watch it....of course that's just my personal opinion, but I seriously doubt that if it were a step above or below college football that others wouldn't feel the same way I would...

HoustonFrog
05-31-2007, 10:25 AM
I'd watch it....are you serious ?!

I can't believe we have football fans complaining about MORE football...

It would just be more exsposure for players that go unnoticed or fly under the radar....I liked the XFL, and I feel like the only reason it didn't survive was because of how it was treated in the media, and the monopoly of air time by the NFL....I like watching good football...NFLE is borderline terrible at times...I wouldn't mind having another quality football leauge...

I agree completely with the concept. I love football and that is their selling point. Their isn't enough football. I'm just trying to figure out how it will all work out. Will it end up being developmental and a better version of NFL Europe or will it be competition?The best non-NFL league IMHO was the USFL because they had Jim Kelly, Young, H. Walker, etc. I thought they had cool unis too. I have no complaints I just think you'd have a hard time competing with the Jerry Jones of the world when it comes to power in a league and there are many other owners, like JJ, with some major power to maybe quash many moves another league might offer.

TexanAddict
05-31-2007, 10:35 AM
That's one way to look at it...


Here's another:

If I'm a third rounder coming out of college, and this new leauge guarantees me more money than I'd be making in the NFL and basically guarantee me I'd be a starter, and quite possibly a star in the leauge I'd definitely consider it....There's talented players in every leauge from NFLE, to AFL, to these little semi-pro teams....IMO, it's not out of the realm of possibility that they could get some quality football players....look at all the players drafted in the 3rd, 4th, and 5th round this year....you have some guys that were 'stars' in college but because of issues off field slipped to later rounds...and you also have guys with semi-big names who slipped because of the combine or workouts....

No one is suggesting that the talent will be as good as the NFL, but if it is a step above or below the NCAA I'd watch it....of course that's just my personal opinion, but I seriously doubt that if it were a step above or below college football that others wouldn't feel the same way I would...

This is true that given the option to start in this new league, some players will choose to go that way. I also agree that there are always surprises to be found in the late rounds, so some quality players could be had that way as well. But I think the abilities of these players might be watered down by the play of the teammates around them, which would lead to an inferior product. I wouldn't mind watching this new league if it was going on right now, but I think they are facing a losing battle if they insist on having their season at the same time as the NFL. I think their best bet for survival would be to at least get their start during the dead months of May-August, instead of head-to-head with the NFL

real
05-31-2007, 11:04 AM
This is true that given the option to start in this new league, some players will choose to go that way. I also agree that there are always surprises to be found in the late rounds, so some quality players could be had that way as well. But I think the abilities of these players might be watered down by the play of the teammates around them, which would lead to an inferior product. I wouldn't mind watching this new league if it was going on right now, but I think they are facing a losing battle if they insist on having their season at the same time as the NFL. I think their best bet for survival would be to at least get their start during the dead months of May-August, instead of head-to-head with the NFL

I don't think you're looking at it past it's innagural season...

Of course the first year wouldn't be that great...

But if you keep adding third and fourth rounders your leauge will be o.k...

Look at some of the UDFA we got... let alone the third and fourth rounders selected that may have been candidates...

Specnatz
05-31-2007, 11:23 AM
IIRC, the USFL did all right as long as they were a Spring and Summer league. It seems like they went under when they switched to a Fall schedule.
I watched on XFL game. I'll do the same for the new league. If I like it, I'll watch more.

Also, part of the problem with the USFL was the amount of money they threw at players like Jim Kelly and Reggie White, I am sure I am missing some but the point is that I think it could work as long as it is done with a little bit less trying to beat the NFL. Rather itneeds to be done as to fill the void between the Super Bowl and preseason.

Texan_Bill
05-31-2007, 11:39 AM
Also, part of the problem with the USFL was the amount of money they threw at players like Jim Kelly and Reggie White, I am sure I am missing some but the point is that I think it could work as long as it is done with a little bit less trying to beat the NFL. Rather itneeds to be done as to fill the void between the Super Bowl and preseason.

Some other high profile guys you didn't mention: Herschel Walker, Mike Rozier, Doug Flutie, Steve Young and several others.

Second Honeymoon
05-31-2007, 01:24 PM
There are some problems with what Cuban thinks. Obviously. He has some good points but is a little shortsighted.

1. Football in the summer? Not a good idea. Would they attempt to use domes built by NFL teams? Costly if it is even possible. Fans could learn to deal with it and get some sun but the players would drop like flies.

2. How would their draft work? He says they would go after players who fall to 3rd Round and lower. So an NFL team that drafts a guy after 2nd Round has to compete with UFL teams? Would the UFL draft after NFL draft? Well then the season would have already started basically by then unless its a pure-summer league.

3. Loss of players to NFL. Even if you got a good player in your UFL draft, what would stop him from quitting and becoming a FA with the NFL?

4. TV Deal. NBC has a deal with NFL. ESPN/ABC Sports has a deal with NFL. CBS has a deal with NFL. FOX has a deal with NFL. USA Network is basically owned by Vivendi who owns CBS. TNT/TBS would be their only shot at solid coverage. Versus is owned by NBC (i believe) and HDNet (cuban's network) doesn't reach enough viewers. No one wants to make a deal with UFL if they already have deal with NFL. NFL > UFL

5. Lack of fan support. Who would really care about this league? yeah there is a void right now, but football year-round sounds good but might not be that good in the long run. Fan interest would wane inevitably hurting both products.

real
05-31-2007, 01:29 PM
Anytime anyone tries to do something there will be nay-sayers...That's life...

Hopefully Cuban goes forward with this venture and the only thing we can do is wait and see if they can make it work....

Second Honeymoon
05-31-2007, 01:54 PM
Anytime anyone tries to do something there will be nay-sayers...That's life...

Hopefully Cuban goes forward with this venture and the only thing we can do is wait and see if they can make it work....

It's not my money. Cuban has plenty of money to work with and a proven track record in sports marketing. I am just saying there are a lot of inherent problems with being a competitor to the NFL.

he could overcome some of these problems by starting the season the Monday after the Super Bowl. if they had 2 4-team conferences they could have a 10-game regular season and a 2 week playoff. 3 month season plus TC/preseason. The season would then remain in springtime for the most part.

Make the UFL draft before the NFL draft around January 10th. That way drafted players would have around 3 weeks to get signed and on the team.

Make the tickets inexpensive. $8-$35 range. Sell family pack/group pack promotions. Like $25 and you get a ticket, beer/coke, hotdog, peanuts, and team souvenir.

I think the idea of fans buying stock in their team is a great idea. It's a marketing manager's wet dream and could even be a decent revenue stream. The thought of tying yourself to a sports team is a very intriguing idea. you then identify yourself with that brand.

Another idea would be to possibly 'partition' out the Division1 power conferences amongst the teams geographically. In other words, San Antonio would get dibs on Big 12 players while LA would get dibs on Pac10 players. It would take some tooling around but doing this would tie people's colleges and conferences into their pro team. May instill a little rivalry and spin to the league.

My only thing is that it only has around a 15% chance of working and will cost 100s of millions of dollars to its owners if it fails.

Double Barrel
05-31-2007, 02:16 PM
How many leagues have there been now that have competed with the NFL? How many are still around? Only reason Arena Football works is because it's different.

Does the NFL have any ownership in Arena Football? I was wondering if it's like the NBA and the WNBA at all, where there is a vested interest for the pro league. I know a lot of former NFL players have ownership in Arena League teams.

I've tried to watch Arena ball, and I just can't get into it. I hate to say it, but to me, it's just not 'good' football. Obviously this is subjective opinion and can vary from person to person.

real
05-31-2007, 03:00 PM
I've tried to watch Arena ball, and I just can't get into it. I hate to say it, but to me, it's just not 'good' football. Obviously this is subjective opinion and can vary from person to person.

I agree...

And that may sound strange coming from someone who wants to see this new leauge come to fruition...

But Arena football is a snoozer, IMO....B-O-R-I-N-G

I can't even watch NFLE...But I would like to think that Cuban goes in a different direction and is somehow able to get quality players and some good coaches...

If not it'll probably be just as, if not more, boring as all the rest of the baby NFL leauges...

Second Honeymoon
05-31-2007, 03:07 PM
I agree...

And that may sound strange coming from someone who wants to see this new leauge come to fruition...

But Arena football is a snoozer, IMO....B-O-R-I-N-G

I can't even watch NFLE...But I would like to think that Cuban goes in a different direction and is somehow able to get quality players and some good coaches...

If not it'll probably be just as, if not more, boring as all the rest of the baby NFL leauges...

Arena Football is pretty wack. NFLE is a far superior football product to AF but still barely watchable.

As far as the league coming to fruition, I am pretty ambivalent. It's their money to possibly lose, not mine. The only problem I have with the UFL is that it might hurt the NFL and a team's internal development of players and losing a player's continuity with a team.

Porky
05-31-2007, 03:19 PM
I wouldn't watch this league. Yawn. Besides, Cuban is involved, which is a red flag for me. It's NFL or bust for me. :texflag:

hollywood_texan
05-31-2007, 03:36 PM
this is ridiculous, the talent pool can barely hold well across the current 32 teams, much less an entire new league.


Exactly!

The NFL is what it is because of the players.

There just aren't enough good players to go around to support a new league to establish a new fan base.

Besides, football fans generally at least follow a college and a pro team, and maybe even a high school. If this new league isn't as good as the NFL, people will just follow their beloved college or high school because there won't be much difference.

I would love to have more professional football. But, due to the nature of the sport it creates inherent demand because of few games played.

If they can figure this one out, they should develop a company that can unseat Microsoft and it's operating system. There probably is more money in that than a professional football league.

These guys just have too much money and with even bigger egos.

Besides, if Cuban is so smart and a foward thinker, why did he let Nash go to Phoenix for a few more dollars? :hmmm:

Cuban was really just lucky on one deal and not really being smarter than everybody else! :neener:

Rocky79
05-31-2007, 03:44 PM
I am down with this simply because they want to give teams to mexico city and vegas! Imagine all the "off field issues" that would arise in those two franchises alone!

They could start off w/ college prospects and big name guys who are too old for the NFL but still want to play (think kurt warner). Before long, the "stars" of the arena league would come on over.

Since they would have teams in markets who dont have teams , i feel they could thrive in the spring/summer, it would be huge in places like Vegas. Maybe San Antonio would be a good place for a Texas squad (they might as well use the Alamodome for something).

real
05-31-2007, 03:48 PM
I think the NFL is what it is because of the coaches...not the players...

The reason I say that is because I can watch any NCAA football game...from the smallest division all the way to D1A.....Well, not any game, but I can watch a lot of the smaller divisions play-offs....

The reason I can watch those smaller teams is because they normally have good coaches, and when they play they run good plays, make smart decisions, have disciplined players, and they look fairly crisp....

The NFL has the best coaches in the world....NCAA has the second best coaches in the world...

Yeah you have some freaky good players, but there are a lot of freaky good players that never make it just because they didn't have the right guidance, coaching, mentoring....or maybe they just had awful luck...

For instance....If you take the Patriots coaching staff and put them with one of these 'Mark Cuban leauge teams' they will make that team look good on the football field...they will be disciplined, run good routes, and have good technique....the talent between players isn't as large as most people think...The difference is in work ethic and technique...The technique comes from coaching and the work ethic comes from within although good coaching motivates players....

If Cuban is smart he will get some good coaches and good football people....

hollywood_texan
05-31-2007, 04:30 PM
I think the NFL is what it is because of the coaches...not the players...



I was really referring to the marketing of the product. The NFL has some big names players that give the league it's identity.

I believe, the key difference between poor/average teams and the really good teams, are the coaching staffs when it comes to results on the field.

Results in the market place though are due to the marketing of certain marquee players in my opinion. Those players provide the buzz and the allure to make the league such a dominate force in the market place.

It's like a movie with an A List actor. The A List actor in the grand scheme of things isn't the most important person in the making of the movie. But,from a general perspective, no one really gives a rat's azz about the movie if it doesn't have the A List actor's name. This is from a huge draw perspective, not from a movie critique.

It's really strange how human nature works as a group.

Texan_Bill
05-31-2007, 04:35 PM
Besides, Cuban is involved, which is a red flag for me. :texflag:
Exactly!! 'Nuff said for me...

Second Honeymoon
05-31-2007, 06:02 PM
Exactly!! 'Nuff said for me...

Bill, why am i not surprised?
They could find the Fountain Of Youth but if it was in Dallas you wouldn't have anything to do with it. :ohsnap: :tomato:

rmartin65
05-31-2007, 06:09 PM
I dont think this will work. it has some good ideas, but it wont be able to compete. On a side not, I love Arena football. Its cool.

rockabilly
06-01-2007, 12:07 AM
I always wondered why the NFL didnt do something like what MLB does with minor league.

Expand the practice squad and have them be in smaller markets just like minor league baseball.

GuerillaBlack
06-01-2007, 09:13 AM
I always wondered why the NFL didnt do something like what MLB does with minor league.

Expand the practice squad and have them be in smaller markets just like minor league baseball.

That's a good idea.