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awtysst
05-27-2007, 12:45 PM
A source speaking on a condition of anonomity describes Vick as 'one of the heavyweights' in the world of dogfighting.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2884063

powerfuldragon
05-27-2007, 01:23 PM
i watched the report on espn this morning. i think it was on outside the lines. they had him silhouetted (sp?) and they digitized his voice. fun stuff.

Trap_Star
05-27-2007, 01:25 PM
Vick better hope his story holds up....

real
05-27-2007, 01:27 PM
Vick is guilty...

You can see it in his demeanor....

Trap_Star
05-27-2007, 01:29 PM
Vick is guilty...

You can see it in his demeanor....

yep, i agree....but its gonna look a lot worse because of all the lies....

Second Honeymoon
05-27-2007, 03:28 PM
It looks like the stakes just got higher for the NFL and Goodell. They have been playing hardball with players all offseason, but will they show Vick leniency in order to protect their interests? However you spell it, Vick and his cousin are in big trouble and if they have provided false information to the police, then the plot only thickens.

Bottom line is that anyone sick enough to watch much less sponsor and champion a dog fight is a sick human being. If they prove that he participated in dog fighting, he needs to do some jail time and some serious community service. Oh, and he should be suspended for 10-16 games.

If the NFL softpedals this whole scandal and doesn't take action they will be in trouble with the Humane Society, PETA, and Pac Man's appeal lawyers.

Texans Horror
05-27-2007, 03:58 PM
Doesn't surprise me in the least. What will be interesting is if there is a crackdown on this bloodsport similar to the crackdown on Steroids. From what articles have said, dog fighting is a big unspoken to-do among NFL players (unless of course you are a moron like Clinton Portis).

Second Honeymoon
05-27-2007, 06:06 PM
Hmm, based on this informant's interview, Michael Vick had access to huge money to bet and raised/fought pit bulls DURING his VIRGINIA TECH career. His dog fought Vick's in 2000 allegedly and Vick was betting huge money. If he was into dog fighting BEFORE he became a multi-millionaire, imagine how much he is probably into it now.

The excuse that it's his cousin house is an insult to an investigator's intelligence and its all a question of whether the DA wants to get involved in this media circus and what the NFL is going to do.

If the Falcons were smart, they would just cut the guy and rid themselves of his ridiculous contract. They could probably get some of the money back and would only have the remaining portion of his signing bonus as 'dead money'. They could go on the cheap at QB and see who emerges out of Harrnington, Shockley, and Redman. Vick is injury-prone, a distraction, an embarassment, and is an average QB with elite feet. For some reason, I don't think this is going to end well for Vick.

This is a serious black eye to Virginia Tech's athletic program and if some of this info pans out, the NCAA may need to do some investigations over there.

Koolaid Time
05-27-2007, 08:20 PM
With all this BAD news coming out about Mike Vick, I predict that as of July 1, 2007, Mike Vick will be residing in:

A. Argentina

B. Costa Rica

C. Uruguay

D. Federal Detention Center for Northern District of Georgia, Atlanta Georgia.

Double Barrel
05-27-2007, 08:35 PM
i watched the report on espn this morning. i think it was on outside the lines. they had him silhouetted (sp?) and they digitized his voice. fun stuff.

Yeah, I saw that report, too. I had left it on ESPN, and when I walked into the room it was showing video of dog's fighting. Unfortunately, my 5 yo son was with me, but he just thinks they were playing. Sad stuff, and I just don't get the appeal of watching animals kill themselves as entertainment.

281
05-27-2007, 08:39 PM
i wonder how the falcons feel about those two second rounders NOW.

Koolaid Time
05-27-2007, 08:46 PM
i wonder how the falcons feel about those two second rounders NOW.

If Vick gets suspended you know Joey Harrington isn't going to cut the mustard...

I doubt that Carolina would trade him to a Division Rival, but the Falcons might be able to buy a used Carr for the right price..

Hervoyel
05-27-2007, 09:08 PM
With all this BAD news coming out about Mike Vick, I predict that as of July 1, 2007, Mike Vick will be residing in:

A. Argentina

B. Costa Rica

C. Uruguay

D. Federal Detention Center for Northern District of Georgia, Atlanta Georgia.

E. Mexico (Nobody would ever think to look for him there)

GuerillaBlack
05-27-2007, 09:09 PM
My friend in Alief has three pitbull. I've known all of them since they were a puppy. They are good dogs. I can't believe people would fight those dogs. Vick deserves to be suspended this year.

Koolaid Time
05-27-2007, 09:13 PM
E. Mexico (Nobody would ever think to look for him there)

I don't think he'd run to Mexico.. too easy to do a "Dog the Bounty Hunter" "Snatch and Grab" on him and bring him back across the border.

powerfuldragon
05-27-2007, 09:18 PM
I don't think he'd run to Mexico.. too easy to do a "Dog the Bounty Hunter" "Snatch and Grab" on him and bring him back across the border.

that would be a great episode of Dog....

Koolaid Time
05-27-2007, 09:25 PM
that would be a great episode of Dog....

"Dog the Bounty Hunter" vs. "Mike the Dog Fighter"

edo783
05-27-2007, 11:00 PM
Isn't "Dog" currently in jail? Thought I heard that on the news a couple of months ago.

GuerillaBlack
05-28-2007, 12:12 AM
If Vick wants to fight so much, then put him in against Kimbo.

awtysst
05-28-2007, 01:11 AM
If Vick wants to fight so much, then put him in against Kimbo.

haha, nice. rep for you you sir.

TheRealJoker
05-28-2007, 12:39 PM
If Vick wants to fight so much, then put him in against Kimbo.

Rampage imo

Mr teX
05-29-2007, 09:18 AM
It looks like the stakes just got higher for the NFL and Goodell. They have been playing hardball with players all offseason, but will they show Vick leniency in order to protect their interests? However you spell it, Vick and his cousin are in big trouble and if they have provided false information to the police, then the plot only thickens.
Bottom line is that anyone sick enough to watch much less sponsor and champion a dog fight is a sick human being. If they prove that he participated in dog fighting, he needs to do some jail time and some serious community service. Oh, and he should be suspended for 10-16 games.

If the NFL softpedals this whole scandal and doesn't take action they will be in trouble with the Humane Society, PETA, and Pac Man's appeal lawyers.

I agree, In light of this info, I think regardless of what happens, Gooddell is going to ding him at least 12 games. This might be the straw that breaks the camel's back for him in Atlanta...

Mr teX
05-29-2007, 09:26 AM
i wonder how the falcons feel about those two second rounders NOW.

LOL, funny you should mention that...........................

http://boards.atlantafalcons.com/index.php?showtopic=250996

edo783
05-29-2007, 10:23 AM
LOL, funny you should mention that...........................

http://boards.atlantafalcons.com/index.php?showtopic=250996

I see they eat their young over there also. It has a very familiar sound to the comments.

Specnatz
05-29-2007, 02:02 PM
LOL, funny you should mention that...........................

http://boards.atlantafalcons.com/index.php?showtopic=250996

It was very hard to read anything that was posted there. Is there not one person on that board who knows what a dictionary is or what a structured sentence is. Heck, I know spelling is not my strong area so I keep a pocket dictionary by my computer. Are the school systems in Atlanta that bad?

WOW!!

Second Honeymoon
05-29-2007, 03:55 PM
It was very hard to read anything that was posted there. Is there not one person on that board who knows what a dictionary is or what a structured sentence is. Heck, I know spelling is not my strong area so I keep a pocket dictionary by my computer. Are the school systems in Atlanta that bad?

WOW!!

yeah, I went and read the thread. I then thanked God for being raised in the great State of Texas and not in the illiterate State of Georgia.

One thing was 'somewhat' obvious from the thread. There are basically 2 camps of Falcon fans now. The Falcons ownership is in a predicament because of this and will probably await word from the NFL before acting.

Vick will have more external pressure on him than any other player this year. If more stuff comes to light and he starts playing bad, it will get really ugly.

TO is probably breathing a sigh of relief now that he isnt the badguy du jour...

infantrycak
05-29-2007, 03:59 PM
And now, another warrant (from profootballtalk.com):

Patrick Terpstra of WVEC-TV reports that authorities are searching the property previously owned by Falcons quarterback Mike Vick for the remains of dogs.

According to a search warrant, seven dogs were destroyed and buried on the property on April 23, and as many as 30 dogs might be buried there.

The warrant also states that the U.S. Department of Agriculture Inspector General sought approval to enter a building on the property in order to pull up floor boards and wall boards in search of signs of blood.

Somebody is talking if they have specific information about 7 dogs being put down and buried on April 23rd. Wonder what happened on the evening of April 22nd?

Texan_Bill
05-29-2007, 04:00 PM
That was awesome.... For once, I can say that I graduated from HISD and be proud of it...

Thanks for that.

Mr teX
05-29-2007, 04:03 PM
And now, another warrant (from profootballtalk.com):



Somebody is talking if they have specific information about 7 dogs being put down and buried on April 23rd. Wonder what happened on the evening of April 22nd?

Loose lips sink ships & it looks like Vick's ship might've just hit an iceberg.

Second Honeymoon
05-29-2007, 04:09 PM
And now, another warrant (from profootballtalk.com):



Somebody is talking if they have specific information about 7 dogs being put down and buried on April 23rd. Wonder what happened on the evening of April 22nd?

Michael Vick: d'oh!

Honoring Earl 34
05-29-2007, 04:13 PM
Michael Vick: d'oh!

Atlanta now claims to have had their fingers crossed on the Schaub deal .

Porky
05-29-2007, 04:30 PM
They also found Beagles on the property that were used as "bait".

Ya, it's ok. Heck, it's just like boxing right. What he does with his own dogs doesn't bother me. :gun:

Disgusting. :devilpig:

Second Honeymoon
05-29-2007, 04:41 PM
They also found Beagles on the property that were used as "bait".
Ya, it's ok. Heck, it's just like boxing right. What he does with his own dogs doesn't bother me. :gun:

Disgusting. :devilpig:

dude, that is the lowest of the low. freakin snoopy was a beagle for crying out loud.

it's time for Vick to take a timeout....from society. he is a sick human being and needs to go away.

SheTexan
05-29-2007, 05:00 PM
Since I am FEMALE I can type this, I actually cried when I read about the Beagles the other day. Those are some of the sweetest dogs around, and great with kids. Just makes me sick to think about it!!

I have a feeling Matt is exceptionally happy the deal went through! Who would want to be a part of anything MV touches!! He is an embarrassment to the NFL! I've never had anything against Falcon fans so I truly feel sorry for them. BUT, if they support this monster throughout this ordeal, they can kiss my ***!!!!!!!!!

real
05-29-2007, 05:33 PM
First time hearing about the beagles...

Yeah, that's disgusting...


If all these things are true, I sincerely hope Vick gets banned from the NFL and thrown in Jail...

infantrycak
05-29-2007, 05:56 PM
Pointdexter is playing with fire:

Updating prior reports, Patrick Terpstra of WVEC-TV reports that Surry County prosecutor Gerald Poindexter has rejected the warrant to search the Virginia property of Mike Vick for dog remains because Poindexter "did not like the language of it."

Poindexter claims that Sheriff Harold Brown shared these concerns. And we'll believe it when Brown says so himself.

Poindexter previously has pointed to a problem with a search warrant as the reason for the failure of another dog-fighting prosecution in which he was involved. In this case, the specific reason for Poindexter's rejection of the warrant is not known. It's also not known whether Poindexter is penning alternative language that will address his concerns.

The warrant had been issued by a magistrate, at the request of an investigator from the Sheriff's office.

He better come forward with a specific criticism of the warrant language or the politics charges are going to amp up. From profootballtalk.com.

A long article: (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/05/29/vick0604/index.html)

The brick house Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick owned on Moonlight Road in rural Smithfield, Va., is painted white. It has a white door, a white fence and a huge white gate that opens on a spare front lawn holding a white birdbath. In the woods behind the house, out of view from the road, stand five smaller buildings. These are painted black -- not gray or charcoal, but pure black, as if they'd been dipped in ink. They are set off from the house by a fence, also painted black.

Check out the picture on page 2. Interesting choice in color scheme.

She also found a dog tooth on a bucket.

I'm scared to ask how they know that.

In other buildings Strouse found syringes as well as injectable diuretics and nutritional supplements commonly given to fighting dogs.

Now I could see supplements being used with non-fighting dogs but diuretics?

A source close to Vick with links to the NFL told SI last week that those two characterizations oversimplify the situation. "Mike really loves dogs," said the source, who asked not to be named. "It's the country side of him coming out. He doesn't believe he's doing anything wrong. It's a cultural thing for him that got worse as he got the means to support his friends who are more into [dogfighting] than him.... He's heavily influenced by a dogfighting culture that travels to Baltimore, [Washington] D.C. and Virginia for fights." The source also said that Vick was frequently at the Moonlight Road house in past off-seasons.

Two other Vick associates told SI.com's Don Banks that the quarterback knew about the dogfighting at the house on Moonlight Road and cited his "affinity" for the dogfighting subculture.

And the woodwork starts to unload.

"[Fighting dogs] is a fun thing, a hobby, to some [athletes]," says an NFL Pro Bowl running back who asked not to be named. "People are crazy about pit bulls. Guys have these nice, big fancy houses, and there is always a pit bull in the back. And everyone wants to have the biggest, baddest dog on the block."

Or, as the Pro Bowl running back put it, "Sometimes you just want to see how tough a dog you got."

Is that you Clinton? One would think not after his 1st run in with the issue which means two pro-bowl RB's.

GuerillaBlack
05-29-2007, 09:05 PM
How could you do that to Beagles. My grandfather has like five of them, and they are one of the coolest dogs around. Vick is ****ing disgusting.

TigerV1
05-29-2007, 10:19 PM
I hadn't heard about the beagles till now. I hope they throw the book at Vick. I know he's got money and that equals "power" when it comes to breaking the law, but I really hope he gets the maximum sentence. I am not even worried about what happens to his career, its pretty much over. I want that man....monster behind bars where he belongs. He can keep the cell warm for Marcus since its only a matter of time till the reunite. Thugs.

Khari
05-29-2007, 10:24 PM
I hope he goes down and goes down hard. I hope they take away everything he's got. :loser

TigerV1
05-29-2007, 10:33 PM
I hope he goes down and goes down hard. I hope they take away everything he's got. :loser

Amen!

mexican_texan
05-29-2007, 10:44 PM
You can bet Goodell isn't happy about this. I wouldn't be surprised if Vick's contract is voided.

Second Honeymoon
05-30-2007, 12:59 AM
I don't think the Falcons want to take the action on this. Let Goodell deal with him and let the chips fall where they may.

Let Goodell straighten the mess out. This whole story plays along racial lines in Atlanta for the most part. A significant amount of the Falcons fanbase would be upset if the Falcons take pre-emptive action on Vick before he has a criminal trial. If the NFL does the pre-emptive action before a criminal trial, the pro-Vick contingent can't really blame local ownership. Blank has stood by Vick in every instance (including this one). Falcons ownership would be well served to let the NFL do the dirty work.

It's still early but logic dictates that Vick was deeply involved in the dog killing err fighting subculture. Where there is smoke, there is fire.

Mr teX
05-30-2007, 09:59 AM
The more & more that comes out about this, the more & more i think it's more of the case that his cousin was "hustlin" on the side. I just finished reading Infantr.. article & the animal control lady pretty much said that the dogs were in pretty good shape save for some cuts here & there.

IMO what i think happened is that MV probably asked his cousin to take care of his dogs while he was away for the football season, his cousin & god knows who else of the possible 10 people who had access to the home, saw an oportunity to make money on the side by fighting the dogs. That's the only real reason people fight dogs anyway, so they can make money & we know MV shouldn't be hurting for any of that.

It's also no secret that the money being bet on these things isn't really chump change either, the informant spoke to that in the Outside the lines interview.

But then there are the Nate Newton's of the world who just do stupid &^$% just to be the "best" at it, so i don't know.

I'm not so naive as to think that Vick has no culpability in this whole ordeal, Like 2nd honeymoon says, where there's smoke there's fire, but the amount is the sketchy part. Bottom line, when a good portion of your family comes from the ghetto & 1 makes it out, there is somewhat of a "crabs in a barrel" mentality amongst many of those who are theoretically supposed to be in your corner.

nunusguy
05-30-2007, 10:22 AM
This whole story plays along racial lines in Atlanta for the most part.
This is the unseemly aspect of this story, and people don't like to talk about it, especially at the national media level. But its there, and more so in Atlanta than other large cities/metro areas in our country.

Double Barrel
05-30-2007, 11:49 AM
The buildings painted black in the back of the property says it all. That's just not normal and is obviously intended for a purpose. I have no doubt that dog fighting was taking place on the property. If Vick was directly involved still has to be proven, although I believe he was connected.

The story about the beagles is just sick and disgusting.

infantrycak
05-30-2007, 12:13 PM
The buildings painted black in the back of the property says it all. That's just not normal and is obviously intended for a purpose.

Like you said that just isn't normal and seems pretty indicting in my mind because it means Vick had a direct involvement in setting the place up with that design since he is the one who paid for it to be built that way.

powerfuldragon
05-30-2007, 12:20 PM
IMO what i think happened is that MV probably asked his cousin to take care of his dogs while he was away for the football season, his cousin & god knows who else of the possible 10 people who had access to the home, saw an oportunity to make money on the side by fighting the dogs. That's the only real reason people fight dogs anyway, so they can make money & we know MV shouldn't be hurting for any of that.



um... i disagree.

Second Honeymoon
05-30-2007, 12:32 PM
The more & more that comes out about this, the more & more i think it's more of the case that his cousin was "hustlin" on the side. I just finished reading Infantr.. article & the animal control lady pretty much said that the dogs were in pretty good shape save for some cuts here & there.

IMO what i think happened is that MV probably asked his cousin to take care of his dogs while he was away for the football season, his cousin & god knows who else of the possible 10 people who had access to the home, saw an oportunity to make money on the side by fighting the dogs. That's the only real reason people fight dogs anyway, so they can make money & we know MV shouldn't be hurting for any of that.

It's also no secret that the money being bet on these things isn't really chump change either, the informant spoke to that in the Outside the lines interview.

But then there are the Nate Newton's of the world who just do stupid &^$% just to be the "best" at it, so i don't know.

I'm not so naive as to think that Vick has no culpability in this whole ordeal, Like 2nd honeymoon says, where there's smoke there's fire, but the amount is the sketchy part. Bottom line, when a good portion of your family comes from the ghetto & 1 makes it out, there is somewhat of a "crabs in a barrel" mentality amongst many of those who are theoretically supposed to be in your corner.

tell me you really don't believe that. fight his dogs 'on the side'?!?! so when MV comes home wouldnt he notice that a few of his dogs had been murdered in the ring? wouldn't he notice the houses in the back painted black? wouldn't he notice blood?

what happened is this. vick had his cousin oversee the operation so Vick could stay at an arms distance. vick financed the whole thing (which is irrefutable based on the fact the cousin was unemployed). feeding 100 fighting dogs each day is not a cheap venture. I bet they spend upwards of $200/day on feeding those animals. The cousin got involved in some drugs and got pinched. This gave authorities an excuse to investigate the rumored and alleged presence of dogs and dog fighting items on the property.

That lady from the Virigina Dog Fighting Task Force from Infantrycak's linked article didn't sound too happy with Vick. I think Vick may be made an example of by this lady. If they find beagle bones on that property, Vick needs to go away for quite a long time.

Mr. White
05-30-2007, 12:41 PM
Even if they don't indict the guy...........next season is gonna be a rough one for him. He might find himself flipping off a lot more fans.

Second Honeymoon
05-30-2007, 12:46 PM
Even if they don't indict the guy...........next season is gonna be a rough one for him. He might find himself flipping off a lot more fans.

I get the feeling that Vick is going to be hearing the classic song 'Who Let The Dogs Out?!?' more than a few times this year.

Porky
05-30-2007, 12:55 PM
The more & more that comes out about this, the more & more i think it's more of the case that his cousin was "hustlin" on the side. I just finished reading Infantr.. article & the animal control lady pretty much said that the dogs were in pretty good shape save for some cuts here & there.

IMO what i think happened is that MV probably asked his cousin to take care of his dogs while he was away for the football season, his cousin & god knows who else of the possible 10 people who had access to the home, saw an oportunity to make money on the side by fighting the dogs. That's the only real reason people fight dogs anyway, so they can make money & we know MV shouldn't be hurting for any of that.

It's also no secret that the money being bet on these things isn't really chump change either, the informant spoke to that in the Outside the lines interview.

But then there are the Nate Newton's of the world who just do stupid &^$% just to be the "best" at it, so i don't know.

I'm not so naive as to think that Vick has no culpability in this whole ordeal, Like 2nd honeymoon says, where there's smoke there's fire, but the amount is the sketchy part. Bottom line, when a good portion of your family comes from the ghetto & 1 makes it out, there is somewhat of a "crabs in a barrel" mentality amongst many of those who are theoretically supposed to be in your corner.

Mr teX, meet reality. Reality, meet Mr. teX. I will let you two get aquainted. :devilpig:

Mr. White
05-30-2007, 12:56 PM
I get the feeling that Vick is going to be hearing the classic song 'Who Let The Dogs Out?!?' more than a few times this year.

His first two games are on the road against Minnesota and Jacksonville. I don't see him playing his third one. He'll find some way to implode by then. If he doesn't, then Arthur Blank will.

If nothing else, this story is good for the national media to shed some light on this despicable subculture.

Porky
05-30-2007, 01:26 PM
From Profootballtalk.com. Something indeed stinks.

SEARCH WARRANT TO BE ABANDONED?

Something stinks in Surry County, Virginia. It might be the rotting flesh of dogs buried on property that Mike Vick previously owned or still owns, depending on whether the abrupt sale of it at less than half its appraised value has been finalized.

But we won't know for sure whether that's the case, because investigators apparently will not be pushing the issue of whether a search warrant will be issued, and executed, to search for dog carcasses and other evidence of illegal dog fighting.

Updating reports from earlier in the day, Patrick Terpstra of WVEC-TV reports that there are no plans to seek the re-issuance of a search warrant that was rejected by Surry County prosecutor Gerald Poindexter. Per Terpstra, investigators believe that they already have enough evidence to proceed with charges.

But, even so, why not search the land for the bodies of dogs that either died in the pit or were killed after losing? If there was/is a problem with the warrant, a judge won't pitch the evidence that was previously obtained on that basis. The only evidence that would be barred is the stuff found the second time around. If there's already enough other evidence to proceed, there's no down side to looking for more proof.

At a minimum, we think that Poindexter and, to the extent that he truly agreed with Poindexter's position, Sheriff Harold Brown need to explain to the media in detail the reason(s) for nixing the warrant after it had been issued.

Specnatz
05-30-2007, 02:18 PM
Ya know this is going to get swept away because this Poindexter guy has no balls what so ever.

I wonder if he has a nice brand new home purchased at half of the value?

HOU-TEX
05-30-2007, 02:19 PM
From Profootballtalk.com. Something indeed stinks.

SEARCH WARRANT TO BE ABANDONED?

Something stinks in Surry County, Virginia. It might be the rotting flesh of dogs buried on property that Mike Vick previously owned or still owns, depending on whether the abrupt sale of it at less than half its appraised value has been finalized.

But we won't know for sure whether that's the case, because investigators apparently will not be pushing the issue of whether a search warrant will be issued, and executed, to search for dog carcasses and other evidence of illegal dog fighting.

Updating reports from earlier in the day, Patrick Terpstra of WVEC-TV reports that there are no plans to seek the re-issuance of a search warrant that was rejected by Surry County prosecutor Gerald Poindexter. Per Terpstra, investigators believe that they already have enough evidence to proceed with charges.

But, even so, why not search the land for the bodies of dogs that either died in the pit or were killed after losing? If there was/is a problem with the warrant, a judge won't pitch the evidence that was previously obtained on that basis. The only evidence that would be barred is the stuff found the second time around. If there's already enough other evidence to proceed, there's no down side to looking for more proof.

At a minimum, we think that Poindexter and, to the extent that he truly agreed with Poindexter's position, Sheriff Harold Brown need to explain to the media in detail the reason(s) for nixing the warrant after it had been issued.


Hmm...something's fishy with this Poindexter character.:spy:

Second Honeymoon
05-30-2007, 02:27 PM
From Profootballtalk.com. Something indeed stinks.

SEARCH WARRANT TO BE ABANDONED?

Something stinks in Surry County, Virginia. It might be the rotting flesh of dogs buried on property that Mike Vick previously owned or still owns, depending on whether the abrupt sale of it at less than half its appraised value has been finalized.

But we won't know for sure whether that's the case, because investigators apparently will not be pushing the issue of whether a search warrant will be issued, and executed, to search for dog carcasses and other evidence of illegal dog fighting.

Updating reports from earlier in the day, Patrick Terpstra of WVEC-TV reports that there are no plans to seek the re-issuance of a search warrant that was rejected by Surry County prosecutor Gerald Poindexter. Per Terpstra, investigators believe that they already have enough evidence to proceed with charges.

But, even so, why not search the land for the bodies of dogs that either died in the pit or were killed after losing? If there was/is a problem with the warrant, a judge won't pitch the evidence that was previously obtained on that basis. The only evidence that would be barred is the stuff found the second time around. If there's already enough other evidence to proceed, there's no down side to looking for more proof.

At a minimum, we think that Poindexter and, to the extent that he truly agreed with Poindexter's position, Sheriff Harold Brown need to explain to the media in detail the reason(s) for nixing the warrant after it had been issued.

This all smells like the prosection/county are getting leaned on by a 3rd party to bury this whole thing under the rug or at least prevent the prosecution from putting together a solid case. The NFL doesn't want this story to get out and doesnt want it to dominate NFL discussion for the near future. I predict that Vick will either be charged and suspended or cleared and exonerated by the time the season starts. I also feel that the rejection of the warrant was a tactic to lessen the prosecution's case for reasons yet unclear.

Mr teX
05-30-2007, 02:34 PM
tell me you really don't believe that. fight his dogs 'on the side'?!?! so when MV comes home wouldnt he notice that a few of his dogs had been murdered in the ring? wouldn't he notice the houses in the back painted black? wouldn't he notice blood?

what happened is this. vick had his cousin oversee the operation so Vick could stay at an arms distance. vick financed the whole thing (which is irrefutable based on the fact the cousin was unemployed). feeding 100 fighting dogs each day is not a cheap venture. I bet they spend upwards of $200/day on feeding those animals. The cousin got involved in some drugs and got pinched. This gave authorities an excuse to investigate the rumored and alleged presence of dogs and dog fighting items on the property.

That lady from the Virigina Dog Fighting Task Force from Infantrycak's linked article didn't sound too happy with Vick. I think Vick may be made an example of by this lady. If they find beagle bones on that property, Vick needs to go away for quite a long time.

Come on man, Your saying that Vick did all this for.................... money? That really doesn't make much sense for 1 & 2 Okay, so it's not cheap to raise 100 some odd pitbulls, but with the money that's flying around in these fights, basically all Vick or whoever had to do was win like 1-2 dog fights & they're set up with expenses & whatnot for a pretty long time. Vick is paid, he doesn't need to fight dogs to get money, his cousins & those he associates with aren't; you guys are underestimating that little facet of this story ALOT.

You're right, the lady didn't sound too happy with Vick but she also acknowledged that the dogs were in pretty good shape aside from a few cuts here & there on some of them which was contrary to initial reports of them being emaciated & in bad shape. As far as noticing a few of his dogs murdered? what out of a 100 dogs he notices a few of them missing? that's like saying which 1 of my 101 dalmations is missing without counting them.

Again, i'm not discounting Vick's involvement on some level, but you guys are acting like it's cut & dry that he's the crime boss in all of this & nothing concrete has surfaced to prove it as so. Poindexter evidently feels that way that's why they haven't acted...........................yet.

Mr teX
05-30-2007, 02:40 PM
This all smells like the prosection/county are getting leaned on by a 3rd party to bury this whole thing under the rug or at least prevent the prosecution from putting together a solid case. The NFL doesn't want this story to get out and doesnt want it to dominate NFL discussion for the near future. I predict that Vick will either be charged and suspended or cleared and exonerated by the time the season starts. I also feel that the rejection of the warrant was a tactic to lessen the prosecution's case for reasons yet unclear.

What do you mean get out? according to the article posted by Infantry, PETA & everyone else are phoning in & sending tips & crap trying to "land" this case & use Vick as a watershed case for their cause.

Mr. White
05-30-2007, 02:41 PM
Looks like Poindexter hasn't completely backed off yet.

(also from PFT)

GRAND JURY COULD CONVENE SOON IN DOG-FIGHTING CASE

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reports that authorities investigating evidence of dog-fighting found at property owned in Virginia by Falcons quarterback Mike Vick could have enough proof to seek an indictment.

It's not presently known, however, whether Vick is one of the persons whom authorities would attempt to indict.

The grand jury process entails a one-sided presentation of evidence by the prosecutor, and the members of the grand jury then decide based on the information that is presented whether to issue indictments.

The evidence reportedly includes information from two individuals who have contacted investigators regarding the situation -- one of the persons is located in Virginia, and the other is located in another state. On Tuesday, Surry County prosecutor Gerald Poindexter reportedly was doing "due diligence" research on the background of one of the Virginia resident who has come forward. Investigators will soon be traveling to conduct similar research as to the other person.

The AJC also reports that Poindexter has not ruled out resurrecting the search warrant for dog remains that he refused to execute on Tuesday. The new warrant, issued by a magistrate and requested by an investigator from the Sheriff's office, was rejected by Poindexter and Sheriff Harold Brown because of concerns regarding its language.

"We'll go in if we have to," Poindexter said. He declined to comment on whether he believes he has enough evidence to proceed with charges absent another search of the property.

Second Honeymoon
05-30-2007, 02:48 PM
Come on man, Your saying that Vick did all this for.................... money? That really doesn't make much sense for 1 & 2 Okay, so it's not cheap to raise 60 some odd pitbulls, but with the money that's flying around in these fights, basically all Vick or whoever had to do was win like 1-2 dog fights & they're set up with expenses & whatnot for a pretty long time.

You're right, the lady didn't sound too happy with Vick but she also acknowledged that the dogs were in pretty good shape aside from a few cuts here & there on some of them which was contrary to initial reports of them being emaciated & in bad shape. As far as noticing a few of his dogs murdered? what out of a 100 dogs he notices a few of them missing? that's like saying which 1 of my 101 dalmations is missing without counting them.

Again, i'm not discounting Vick's involvement on some level, but you guys are acting like it's cut & dry that he's the crime boss in all of this & nothing concrete has surfaced to prove it as so. Poindexter evidently feels that way that's why they haven't acted...........................yet.

This ain't about the money. This is about him being involved with an inhumane and evil bloodsport. Not just involved, but one of the 'big dogs', no pun intended. Vick and the other sick bastards who engage in this immoral activity aren't doing it for money. They are doing it for the rush of adrenaline, the feeling of playing God, and the brutal violence of it.

Vick funds the whole dog thing because he is into it. it is his hobby. Breeding dogs to kill other dogs is his hobby. If he can offset some of his expenses by winning a bet on his dogs or by selling 'pre-trained' dogs, so be it but its not the allure of money that has Vick in the game. It's his own twisted little brain that has him in this game. He thinks its somehow cool to have dogs kill each other and he thinks its cool to train them to do so. I wouldn't be sad if this whole thing shuts down his career and shines a light on this subhuman subculture....

Mr teX
05-30-2007, 03:43 PM
This ain't about the money. This is about him being involved with an inhumane and evil bloodsport. Not just involved, but one of the 'big dogs', no pun intended. Vick and the other sick bastards who engage in this immoral activity aren't doing it for money. They are doing it for the rush of adrenaline, the feeling of playing God, and the brutal violence of it.

Vick funds the whole dog thing because he is into it. it is his hobby. Breeding dogs to kill other dogs is his hobby. If he can offset some of his expenses by winning a bet on his dogs or by selling 'pre-trained' dogs, so be it but its not the allure of money that has Vick in the game. It's his own twisted little brain that has him in this game. He thinks its somehow cool to have dogs kill each other and he thinks its cool to train them to do so. I wouldn't be sad if this whole thing shuts down his career and shines a light on this subhuman subculture....

As far as the bolded, OKKAAAY, you keep believing that.

No doubt it's a demented way to entertain yourself, but your speaking from the court of public opinion In which case, Vick has already been brought out to the mob, locked down into the guillotine & now he's basically waiting for his head to be chopped off. He's already leaned on his cousin in the media, If his cousin had anything on MV he'd better speak up now. maybe the buried dogs in the other house is info from his cousin?

Second Honeymoon
05-30-2007, 03:48 PM
As far as the bolded, OKKAAAY, you keep believing that.

No doubt it's a demented way to entertain yourself, but your speaking from the court of public opinion In which case, Vick has already been brought out to the mob, locked down into the guillotine & now he's basically waiting for his head to be chopped off. He's already leaned on his cousin in the media, If his cousin had anything on MV he'd better speak up now. maybe the buried dogs in the other house is info from his cousin?

Vick makes like 20million annually. Dogfighting is small potatoes compared to that. He engages in dogfighting to quench his sick and perverted thirst for blood.

Mr. White
05-30-2007, 04:27 PM
If you aren't pissed off enough yet, then here's a link for ya. The headline says it all.

U.S. Dog-Fighting Rings Stealing Pets for "Bait" (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/02/0218_040218_dogfighting.html)

I don't care what he knew or didn't know was going on at his property. They need to make an example of him.

infantrycak
05-30-2007, 04:45 PM
As far as the bolded, OKKAAAY, you keep believing that.

I bet SH and a bunch of other folks including myself will keep on believing that because the opposite position, i.e. that dog fighting is done solely for money, is absurd.

Mr teX
05-30-2007, 04:57 PM
I bet SH and a bunch of other folks including myself will keep on believing that because the opposite position, i.e. that dog fighting is done solely for money, is absurd.

Not saying it's solely for money...... but about 80% of it is.....

Mr. White
05-30-2007, 05:07 PM
Not saying it's solely for money...... but about 80% of it is.....

So, it's like a part-time job then? He must be feeling the pinch from the gas prices just like the rest of us. :ok:

I guess times are tough for everybody. Even multi-millionaires.

Porky
05-30-2007, 05:07 PM
Not saying it's solely for money...... but about 80% of it is.....

You seem to know an awful lot about it. :backsout:


Maybe one of these dogs would take a chunk out of Vick - :nicedog:

real
05-30-2007, 05:49 PM
Seems like everday more and more incriminating evidence comes out against MV...

There is no way Vick isn't guilty, or didn't know what was being done...I dunno if he was ever physically at dog fights (he probably was, but since he held them at his house he probably had some way of watching without being seen), but there's no way I can be convinced that he didn't have a large role in this....I still don't know if a jury is going to convict him with the evidence that is currently available, but if it keeps mounting MV may be using his world class speed and agility to dodge Big Bruce, his cellmate...

Which brings me to anther question...If MV is convicted of a felony would he be put into the general population or seperated ?

The Pencil Neck
05-30-2007, 06:04 PM
Seems like everday more and more incriminating evidence comes out against MV...

There is no way Vick isn't guilty, or didn't know what was being done...I dunno if he was ever physically at dog fights (he probably was, but since he held them at his house he probably had some way of watching without being seen), but there's no way I can be convinced that he didn't have a large role in this....I still don't know if a jury is going to convict him with the evidence that is currently available, but if it keeps mounting MV may be using his world class speed and agility to dodge Big Bruce, his cellmate...

Which brings me to anther question...If MV is convicted of a felony would he be put into the general population or seperated ?


Pry bar or rape stand. THAT is the question.

Porky
05-30-2007, 06:19 PM
Pry bar or rape stand. THAT is the question.

I say use both at the same time. I'm sure those prisoners would just love an irrestible dog murderer like MV. :bat:

GuerillaBlack
05-30-2007, 06:21 PM
Seems like everday more and more incriminating evidence comes out against MV...

There is no way Vick isn't guilty, or didn't know what was being done...I dunno if he was ever physically at dog fights (he probably was, but since he held them at his house he probably had some way of watching without being seen), but there's no way I can be convinced that he didn't have a large role in this....I still don't know if a jury is going to convict him with the evidence that is currently available, but if it keeps mounting MV may be using his world class speed and agility to dodge Big Bruce, his cellmate...

Which brings me to anther question...If MV is convicted of a felony would he be put into the general population or seperated ?

I believe Kimbo is in jail for his street fights. Why not put Vick in a cell with Kimbo? VIck would be squirming around like a little *****.

ledzeppelin229
05-30-2007, 06:36 PM
Seems like everday more and more incriminating evidence comes out against MV...

There is no way Vick isn't guilty, or didn't know what was being done...I dunno if he was ever physically at dog fights (he probably was, but since he held them at his house he probably had some way of watching without being seen), but there's no way I can be convinced that he didn't have a large role in this....I still don't know if a jury is going to convict him with the evidence that is currently available, but if it keeps mounting MV may be using his world class speed and agility to dodge Big Bruce, his cellmate...

Which brings me to anther question...If MV is convicted of a felony would he be put into the general population or seperated ?

Separated im sure... people with celebrity status (famous and/or infamous) typically are for their own protection and to keep things smoother at the facility.

That said, I would be very surprised if he got more than a short stint at a local jail...even that might be pushing it. I see a hefty fine with community service and a couple years probation in his future.

Corrosion
05-30-2007, 08:12 PM
That said, I would be very surprised if he got more than a short stint at a local jail...even that might be pushing it. I see a hefty fine with community service and a couple years probation in his future.



You are probably correct BUT at what point does the general public get fed up with seeing celebrities get away with or just the proverbial slap on the wrist for things the average joe gets several years for ? ..... Those Judges do have to get re-elected .


Something seems very odd to me about that warrant not being persued , Sure looks to the casual observer like some dirty politics goin on .....

GuerillaBlack
05-30-2007, 08:25 PM
Someone has a new BMW and Mercedes...fully paid...sitting in their driveway.

ledzeppelin229
05-30-2007, 08:37 PM
You are probably correct BUT at what point does the general public get fed up with seeing celebrities get away with or just the proverbial slap on the wrist for things the average joe gets several years for ? ..... Those Judges do have to get re-elected .


Something seems very odd to me about that warrant not being persued , Sure looks to the casual observer like some dirty politics goin on .....

I agree...they seem to be afraid/reluctant to really throw the book at him the way they would anyone else. Hopefully something actually comes of this in the court system...the public and government shouldn't be bowing down to celebrities.

Second Honeymoon
05-31-2007, 01:51 AM
I agree...they seem to be afraid/reluctant to really throw the book at him the way they would anyone else. Hopefully something actually comes of this in the court system...the public and government shouldn't be bowing down to celebrities.

I think its more like bowing down to the NFL and its huge multi-national corporate sponsors. Vick is one of the icons of the league and its not good business for this kind of sick behavior to get much more public than it already is.

After all, if you can buy a presidency, you can surely buy a podunk county DA...:tinfoil:

ledzeppelin229
05-31-2007, 01:57 AM
I think its more like bowing down to the NFL and its huge multi-national corporate sponsors. Vick is one of the icons of the league and its not good business for this kind of sick behavior to get much more public than it already is.

After all, if you can buy a presidency, you can surely buy a podunk county DA.....:ironicsarcasm:


True...the NFL is like the head of the giant monster, the teams are the tentacles and each player becomes a little suction cup on the tentacles. Some are stronger than others..sometimes just a one cup will come after you, sometimes just one tentacle, sometimes the entire monster...

No different than a corporation, just more entertaining than watching bald fat guys work in a cubicle.

Mr teX
05-31-2007, 09:25 AM
So, it's like a part-time job then? He must be feeling the pinch from the gas prices just like the rest of us. :ok:

I guess times are tough for everybody. Even multi-millionaires.

You guys are making my point for me & i don't even think you realize it. B/c of all of the money that floats around this "sport" it stands to reason that MV would be the least likely guy to be at the head of it.... b/c he already has lots of it.

*** I am not saying MV wasn't involved in all of this on some level!***

I'm just saying that IMO his cousin probably had more of a hand in it than you guys want to believe b/c he's the guy most likely hurtin' for cash. I mean, the police went there on the premise that drugs might be present. What, you think they just went there to find a little bag of weed or something? They only make house calls like that when a signifcant amount might be present & what do people usually do with significant amounts of durgs? Smoke it all up, or sell it? I guess MV was selling drugs too huh?

When you come from where lots of these guys come from, there's literally a "get rich by any means available" attitude. MV represents the guy who made it out but that doesn't mean LOTS of the people around him arent' still in that mode.

& Porky you don't exactly have to be a genius to know that most things done illegally in this world are usually done for money/power & that's pretty much in all facets of society. That goes From Enron, Worldcomm to this crap.

infantrycak
05-31-2007, 10:14 AM
I'm just saying that IMO his cousin probably had more of a hand in it than you guys want to believe b/c he's the guy most likely hurtin' for cash.

Nobody is doubting that the cousin may have played a huge part, heck he may have run the whole thing (with Vick's money) but that doesn't really matter because if Vick knew about it, supported it or attended at all he is guilty of a felony and they will both get prosecuted.

Second Honeymoon
05-31-2007, 01:19 PM
and the beat goes on.....

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2888085

It looks like Vick is hosed. It's looking like he will be indicted along with his cousin and that spells one thing.....SUSPENSION.

Gooddell has to suspend Vick before this season starts or this black eye is only going to get worse for the NFL. And the NFL owes it to Atlanta to let them know whether they will have their franchise player or not as soon as possible.

Upon reading this article Michael Vick said 'D'oh!'

WWJD
05-31-2007, 01:46 PM
I think anybody that gets pleasure out of watching dogs fight or participating in the actual arranging of these fights maybe got knocked out of their momma's arms when they were babes and suffered a head injury.


This stuff is sick!

TexanSam
05-31-2007, 01:51 PM
I guess Michael Vick isn't that different than his brother after all.

Corrosion
05-31-2007, 09:04 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2888085

You want more than just smoke. You're always looking for the smoking gun.


Wouldnt that smoking gun be the dead bodies of these dogs possibly burried there ? No those corpses wouldnt implicate Vick directly but it would be strong evidence that there was dog fighting going on on the premisis .

This whole mess with the warrant not being executed .... smells.


The NFL, which has offered the services of its security department to assist local authorities in the investigation, continues to monitor the proceedings closely.

Really , why would the local authorities need the NFL security depatrment around the crime scene ?

Specnatz
05-31-2007, 11:12 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2888085

Wouldnt that smoking gun be the dead bodies of these dogs possibly burried there ? No those corpses wouldnt implicate Vick directly but it would be strong evidence that there was dog fighting going on on the premisis .

This whole mess with the warrant not being executed .... smells.

Really , why would the local authorities need the NFL security depatrment around the crime scene ?


Most organizations hire ex-high level police officers like homicide detectives and or former FBI agents. Not sure whom the NFL employs but I know from my experience whom companies hire.

powerfuldragon
06-01-2007, 11:33 AM
When asked why he did not execute the warrant, Poindexter said, "Because I didn't like the language of the search warrant."
"Deputy Brinkman made a mistake. He should have gotten some legal advice during the affidavit for the search warrant," said Poindexter.
Poindexter called it the domino effect. If one search is determined unconstitutional, searches after that could be illegal too and the case could fall apart.
When asked, "At this moment in time, do we have any evidence that puts Vick at dog fighting?" Poindexter replied, "Yes."

Poindexter said there are people who will make those claims. "We have informants. We have people who are volunteering to make those allegations."http://www.wavy.com/Global/story.asp?S=6589602&nav=23ii

Mr teX
06-01-2007, 11:47 AM
Well, if they've got several people that will place MV @ the dog fights, he'll have trouble dodging that, but the major thing i think they'll need to maximize their case against him is going to be a paper trail leading straight to him... otherwise he's going to get off relatively light IMO.

TigerV1
06-01-2007, 11:47 AM
So I am curious what everyone believes will happen with this. It looks like the evidence is building and that Vick is in trouble, but I am wondering what we all think will happen in reality.

In the perfect world he would be convicted, sent to jail, and banished form the NFL, but I am worried that when it comes down to it he will get off on some unforseen technicality.

Goldensilence
06-01-2007, 12:17 PM
So I am curious what everyone believes will happen with this. It looks like the evidence is building and that Vick is in trouble, but I am wondering what we all think will happen in reality.

In the perfect world he would be convicted, sent to jail, and banished form the NFL, but I am worried that when it comes down to it he will get off on some unforseen technicality.

If enough of the trail leads to him and even if he gets off on a technicality i would hope Goddell would still have the sense to suspend him. It's already enough of a black eye as it is for the NFL. Even though he probably won't spend any time in jail i think his NFL career is pretty near tanked.... i mean I'm sure Gruden is looking for another QB.

I get the feeling Brohm will be thier first pick next year.

Specnatz
06-01-2007, 12:19 PM
So I am curious what everyone believes will happen with this. It looks like the evidence is building and that Vick is in trouble, but I am wondering what we all think will happen in reality.

In the perfect world he would be convicted, sent to jail, and banished form the NFL, but I am worried that when it comes down to it he will get off on some unforseen technicality.

You can buy justice. He has money and can hire the best attorney money can buy, so he can buy justice. It is how the system is setup, sadly.

Mr. White
06-01-2007, 12:21 PM
So I am curious what everyone believes will happen with this. It looks like the evidence is building and that Vick is in trouble, but I am wondering what we all think will happen in reality.

In the perfect world he would be convicted, sent to jail, and banished form the NFL, but I am worried that when it comes down to it he will get off on some unforseen technicality.

I doubt that this will happen, but even if he gets off clean, then he'll be a pariah. From PFT (http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm).

VICK TEAMMATES "AMUSED" BY HIS CURRENT SITUATION

An industry source tells us that the current talk among current and former Falcons teammates of quarterback Mike Vick is that multiple players are "amused" by the difficulties that Vick currently is facing.

It's one of the realities of sports teams that grant premature royalty status to one member of the locker room. Vick previously had been able to do pretty much whatever he wanted to do, with no real scrutiny or restraint from the front office. As a matter of basic human nature, other players who witnessed this dynamic will feel a certain sense of satisfaction when the man who used to be king no longer sits on the throne.

Though we're not hearing that teammates are taking malicious glee in Vick's present circumstances, there's definitely a feeling that many of them find funny the fact that the guy who used to rule the roost in Atlanta is now on the run.

There's also a strong contingent among Falcons fans that just don't like the guy. I would bet that his own stadium will seem a lot like enemy territory unless he has an All-Pro season. Away stadiums will have no love for him either. :bat:

Texan_Bill
06-01-2007, 12:22 PM
You can buy justice. He has money and can hire the best attorney money can buy, so he can buy justice. It is how the system is setup, sadly.
Signed,

Orenthal James Simpson

Specnatz
06-01-2007, 12:24 PM
Signed,

Orenthal James Simpson

Although I think and believe simpson is guilty, the prosecuters and the detctives blew that one worse than any case in the history of American judicial system.

infantrycak
06-01-2007, 12:26 PM
You can buy justice. He has money and can hire the best attorney money can buy, so he can buy justice. It is how the system is setup, sadly.

Yup, if you have enough money you can always get off.

Signed,

Jeff Skilling & Ken Lay

jerek
06-01-2007, 12:32 PM
Yup, if you have enough money you can always get off.

Signed,

Jeff Skilling & Ken Lay

It's a silly generalization exacerbated by TV, but I think money can to significant extent buy justice. But there are political and other factors that substantially influence the process in either direction as well, much moreso than money, I would argue. If the government(s) at various levels are under pressure or want to make an example out of the criminal in question, odds might well be biased favorably toward a successful prosecution.

TigerV1
06-01-2007, 12:33 PM
Although I think and believe simpson is guilty, the prosecuters and the detctives blew that one worse than any case in the history of American judicial system.


And hopefully thats why Poindexter is making sure he gets the wording right and has all his ducks in a row before he goes after a man with a large amount of money and probably a group of very costly lawyers.

Texan_Bill
06-01-2007, 01:00 PM
I thought Jeff Skilling got convicted....

Now Ken Lay is a different story. He took the easy way out....

infantrycak
06-01-2007, 01:04 PM
I thought Jeff Skilling got convicted....

Now Ken Lay is a different story. He took the easy way out....

They both were--it was supposed to be a humorous opposite.

Second Honeymoon
06-01-2007, 01:05 PM
Well, if they've got several people that will place MV @ the dog fights, he'll have trouble dodging that, but the major thing i think they'll need to maximize their case against him is going to be a paper trail leading straight to him... otherwise he's going to get off relatively light IMO.

I agree with you that he will probably get off light on the legal charges but if he is even indicted as part of a drug fighting ring he will be suspended for half of 2007 at least. If he was to plead guilty or be convicted of being part of the ring he would get a year for sure. If no charges are filed and no indictment is issued he will probably get off scot-free from the NFL. My point is that $$ and legal BS can get you out of a lot of trouble with the courts but the NFL Commissioner is a different case altogether. Just ask Pac (never convicted) or Ricky Williams (testing positive for smoking bud) they lost millions and got suspended without convictions.

I also think NFL Security could be a Wild Card in this whole thing. They will probably have an easier time coming across information than the authorities. No one wants to be a snitch to the police but maybe they have an easier time talking to NFL Security....especially if they are players in the NFL. What would they do with this information? Keep the info confidential but suspend him for what they felt was proof of his involvement. Would any information from NFL Security be admissable in court? If the NFL Security then gives info or leads to the police, it could get ugly for Vick.

Specnatz
06-01-2007, 01:08 PM
And hopefully thats why Poindexter is making sure he gets the wording right and has all his ducks in a row before he goes after a man with a large amount of money and probably a group of very costly lawyers.

I do not have issue with that at all. what I have issue with him is he said he did not like the language in the warrent for searching for dog remains and then said that it would not be re-issued. Why not re-issue it with the right wording and find out all the facts of the case versus leaving some facts out.


I thought Jeff Skilling got convicted....

Now Ken Lay is a different story. He took the easy way out....

That was his point when I said money can buy justice. I still firmly believe that our system needs a tweak to it.

Double Barrel
06-01-2007, 01:10 PM
In the court of public opinion, he's already found guilty. I'd imagine that road games are going to be tough, especially with drunk, rowdy NFL fans. I expect to see that middle finger of his a couple of more times this season....if he's playing.

Mr teX
06-01-2007, 01:10 PM
It's a silly generalization exacerbated by TV, but I think money can to significant extent buy justice. But there are political and other factors that substantially influence the process in either direction as well, much moreso than money, I would argue. If the government(s) at various levels are under pressure or want to make an example out of the criminal in question, odds might well be biased favorably toward a successful prosecution.

I agree, never underestimate the power of emotions & politics with cases like this. I mean, you see how this board is reacting to every piece of news coming out about this, & think back to the whole Enron debacle. Everywhere on the news & in newspapers there was the picture of the lady crying out on the stairs right in front of the big crooked "E" (no pun intended). Images & things of the sort are used to sway public opinion in which justice is then polluted IMO by the immense pressure on the prosecution to either act quickly in filing charges or to obtain a conviction.

I previously mocked poindexter for things he said about this case, but it looks like he's considered everything & that's the mark of a good lawyer.

Second Honeymoon
06-01-2007, 01:27 PM
I agree, never underestimate the power of emotions & politics with cases like this. I mean, you see how this board is reacting to every piece of news coming out about this, & think back to the whole Enron debacle. Everywhere on the news & in newspapers there was the picture of the lady crying out on the stairs right in front of the big crooked "E" (no pun intended). Images & things of the sort are used to sway public opinion in which justice is then polluted IMO by the immense pressure on the prosecution to either act quickly in filing charges or to obtain a conviction.

I previously mocked poindexter for things he said about this case, but it looks like he's considered everything & that's the mark of a good lawyer.


I don't really care whether Vick spends time in jail or not. That doesn't affect me directly and its up to the courts which are pretty broken. Hope the lawyers enjoy the piles of cash they will receive.

What I do care about is having sadistic and inhumane dog butchers playing in the league that we all love, the NFL. Even if the corrupt court system lets him off the hook, the NFL needs to be their own arbiter and just kick him out of the league for a year if they think he was involved. If they don't, then it hurts the league and the league continues to be mired in off the field scandals and police blotter. If they bust a high profile big $$ like Vick, then it sends a message that money and lawyers can't stop the NFL from bringing down justice. The NFL isn't a right its a privilege....they can do whatever they want basically....

Texan_Bill
06-01-2007, 01:28 PM
They both were--it was supposed to be a humorous opposite.

Okay.... My bad!

Texan_Bill
06-01-2007, 01:32 PM
I don't really care whether Vick spends time in jail or not. That doesn't affect me directly and its up to the courts which are pretty broken. Hope the lawyers enjoy the piles of cash they will receive.

What I do care about is having sadistic and inhumane dog butchers playing in the league that we all love, the NFL. Even if the corrupt court system lets him off the hook, the NFL needs to be their own arbiter and just kick him out of the league for a year if they think he was involved. If they don't, then it hurts the league and the league continues to be mired in off the field scandals and police blotter. If they bust a high profile big $$ like Vick, then it sends a message that money and lawyers can't stop the NFL from bringing down justice. The NFL isn't a right its a privilege....they can do whatever they want basically....

Problem that Goddell would have is that he would open the League up to a major law-suit by Vick - if the system broke down (yet again) and Vick were not actually convicted of anything... It sucks because I am with you that the NFL should have no place or tolerance for sickos!!

Second Honeymoon
06-01-2007, 01:41 PM
Problem that Goddell would have is that he would open the League up to a major law-suit by Vick - if the system broke down (yet again) and Vick were not actually convicted of anything... It sucks because I am with you that the NFL should have no place or tolerance for sickos!!

Pac Man wasn't convicted and he got suspended. There is a precedent. Goddell only has to use the language 'conduct detrimental to the league' to punish him. Vick's conduct has been detrimental to the league. It's that easy.

I mean even if you believe Vick's story that he knew nothing and that his cousin funded the whole thing, Vick is guilty in furnishing a home to a drug dealing dog murderer. Vick would be guilty of not monitoring assets that are clearly in his name and were clearly used for fightdog training, animal torture, and possibly hosting the highly illegal fights themselves...

personally, the guy can take his middle finger and stick it where the sun don't shine for all I care...just not in the NFL

Mr teX
06-01-2007, 01:50 PM
I don't really care whether Vick spends time in jail or not. That doesn't affect me directly and its up to the courts which are pretty broken. Hope the lawyers enjoy the piles of cash they will receive.

What I do care about is having sadistic and inhumane dog butchers playing in the league that we all love, the NFL. Even if the corrupt court system lets him off the hook, the NFL needs to be their own arbiter and just kick him out of the league for a year if they think he was involved. If they don't, then it hurts the league and the league continues to be mired in off the field scandals and police blotter. If they bust a high profile big $$ like Vick, then it sends a message that money and lawyers can't stop the NFL from bringing down justice. The NFL isn't a right its a privilege....they can do whatever they want basically....

I think it's a foregone conclusion that Vick's getting @ least 12 games for his role in this regardless of how it turns out. I think that's the major reason the NFL security guys are involved; so when they present goodell with the facts & things they learned from the prosecution, lots of which we won't even get to hear, he'll make a decision on how many games. Will he hand something down before charges are filed? who knows, but i think Vick might as well hang up his cleats for the 2007 season.

Texan_Bill
06-01-2007, 01:50 PM
Pac Man wasn't convicted and he got suspended. There is a precedent. Goddell only has to use the language 'conduct detrimental to the league' to punish him. Vick's conduct has been detrimental to the league. It's that easy.
I beleive that Pac-Man was considering whether or not to sue the league. I will go back and see if I can find an article about that.

I mean even if you believe Vick's story that he knew nothing and that his cousin funded the whole thing, Vick is guilty in furnishing a home to a drug dealing dog murderer. Vick would be guilty of not monitoring assets that are clearly in his name and were clearly used for fightdog training, animal torture, and possibly hosting the highly illegal fights themselves
Surely, no one in their right mind would beleive Vick's story... If the do I have the proverbial beach front property in Arizona for them.

personally, the guy can take his middle finger and stick it where the sun don't shine for all I care...just not in
Stick it and break it off.....

Porky
06-01-2007, 01:53 PM
I don't really care whether Vick spends time in jail or not. That doesn't affect me directly and its up to the courts which are pretty broken. Hope the lawyers enjoy the piles of cash they will receive.

What I do care about is having sadistic and inhumane dog butchers playing in the league that we all love, the NFL.

I was very suspicious about Dominick Davis for a long time and still am even though he is no longer employed by the NFL. He has a pit bull tatoo, and is in the pit bull culture, and I think that is simply double speak for the dog fighting culture. I would be very curious to see what is out at Mr Davis err Mr. Williams or whatever his name is this week, house or property. I don't have any evidence, but I am curious what one might find.

And I don't think it ends there either. From what I have been reading, there is a culture of dog fighting in the NBA and NFL both. I think the NFL needs to come down like a ton of bricks on Vick and send a very strong message. If he is found guilty of anything at all regarding dog fighting, a lifetime suspension is in order. If he is indicted, but never found guilty, at least a full year suspension, if not 2 years, is in order, as the evidence exists and a not guilty doesn't mean he wasn't involved. No indictment, but still strong evidence - at least 8 game suspension.

Mr teX
06-01-2007, 01:59 PM
I was very suspicious about Dominick Davis for a long time and still am even though he is no longer employed by the NFL. He has a pit bull tatoo, and is in the pit bull culture, and I think that is simply double speak for the dog fighting culture. I would be very curious to see what is out at Mr Davis err Mr. Williams or whatever his name is this week, house or property. I don't have any evidence, but I am curious what one might find.

And I don't think it ends there either. From what I have been reading, there is a culture of dog fighting in the NBA and NFL both. I think the NFL needs to come down like a ton of bricks on Vick and send a very strong message. If he is found guilty of anything at all regarding dog fighting, a lifetime suspension is in order. If he is indicted, but never found guilty, at least a full year suspension, if not 2 years, is in order, as the evidence exists and a not guilty doesn't mean he wasn't involved. No indictment, but still strong evidence - at least 8 game suspension.


Relax there buddy, i know your passionate about this subject, but the bolded is a bit harsh considering he's already going to get something for this just b/c it was his house.

Mr. White
06-01-2007, 02:11 PM
Relax there buddy, i know your passionate about this subject, but the bolded is a bit harsh considering he's already going to get something for this just b/c it was his house.

Maybe so, but I think it's time for the NFL to start dealing with players that associate with criminals.

If he can, the cousin will try to take the fall for this thing unless some evidence turns up. That's why the NFL needs to hold Vick responsible no matter what the justice system determines. Too many athletes play the "guilt by association" card when they get into trouble.

Second Honeymoon
06-01-2007, 02:34 PM
Maybe so, but I think it's time for the NFL to start dealing with players that associate with criminals.

If he can, the cousin will try to take the fall for this thing unless some evidence turns up. That's why the NFL needs to hold Vick responsible no matter what the justice system determines. Too many athletes play the "guilt by association" card when they get into trouble.

yup and ironically the athlete ends up being the enabler of his 'crew' ultimately. there is having a great time and then there is perpetuating the 'thug life' mythos. there is the false perception that if you stop engaging in thug behavior and become a professional you would somehow lose credibility in the community and amongst your friends.

a true icon in the community would try and change things for his friends not just perpetuate the whole thing. you don't have to leave the hood but you need to improve the hood for the people around you because you have to give back. Look at what the real heroes of sports have done for their people. Jackie Robinson. Ali. Curt Flood. Arthur Ashe. Dikembe Mutombo. These guys are real heroes and something that every athlete should aspire to be....but it's just not the case...they are too busy emulating 50Cent, 2Pac, or Scarface/Godfather.

Second Honeymoon
06-01-2007, 02:52 PM
another article on some of the informants implicating Vick from the Atlanta Journal Constitution.

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/falcons/stories/2007/05/31/0601vick.html

SheTexan
06-01-2007, 04:30 PM
Seems like it would be pretty simple to check out the cousin's employment status. Pay check stubs, IRS, bank acounts, etc. Where did this guy get his money? Bet he don't have a 9-5 job!!

TigerV1
06-01-2007, 04:36 PM
I do not have issue with that at all. what I have issue with him is he said he did not like the language in the warrent for searching for dog remains and then said that it would not be re-issued. Why not re-issue it with the right wording and find out all the facts of the case versus leaving some facts out.

Good point. I also dislike that. Ok, so the langueage was wrong, but re-word it then re-issue it. He seems to be playing a bit of a political game.

Specnatz
06-01-2007, 04:41 PM
Seems like it would be pretty simple to check out the cousin's employment status. Pay check stubs, IRS, bank acounts, etc. Where did this guy get his money? Bet he don't have a 9-5 job!!

Exactly, but he could easily say it was from drug sales to take the wrap for his cousin.

infantrycak
06-01-2007, 04:45 PM
Exactly, but he could easily say it was from drug sales to take the wrap for his cousin.

The contractor who built the house has already been interviewed and said Vick paid for the construction of the out back facilities.

Mr teX
06-01-2007, 04:54 PM
Seems like it would be pretty simple to check out the cousin's employment status. Pay check stubs, IRS, bank acounts, etc. Where did this guy get his money? Bet he don't have a 9-5 job!!

It would be, The problem is everyone is so thirsty to crucify MV, this dude is flying in under the radar.

Specnatz
06-01-2007, 04:56 PM
It would be, The problem is everyone is so thirsty to crucify MV, this dude is flying in under the radar.

Because he is one of the little guys. Do you want the DEA to go after the guy who sells pot and his supplier or the guy who is selling heroin and his supplier?

I will take the DEA going after the guy selling herion and his supplier any day of the week.

swtbound07
06-01-2007, 05:06 PM
you people are all too jumpy on the suspension button. Vick will play, Vick will start, and Vick aint going to jail. That you guys want to crucify him for dogfighting is laughable, or lest we all forget that there is a mountain of evidence that ray lewis KILLED SOMEBODY and walked scott free and suits up every sunday. Vick is good for the NFL, good for ratings, and good for marketing. Give you 3 guesses as to the most sold jersey in the nfl. Nothing is going to happen to Mike Vick.

Mr teX
06-01-2007, 05:10 PM
Because he is one of the little guys. Do you want the DEA to go after the guy who sells pot and his supplier or the guy who is selling heroin and his supplier?

I will take the DEA going after the guy selling herion and his supplier any day of the week.

he's not recognizable like his cousin is, that's the only reason he's being pushed to the back burner. You know how it is in this country. Winona Ryder got dinged for shoplifting & the media covered it like it was the OJ simpson trial. In reality it was only shoplifting & it happens everyday & twice on sunday. but b/c it was her.........

The same situation applies here somewhat. It's only b/c it's MV that this is as big as it is. if this were joe shmoe & his cousin....it's likely none of us would've even heard of this.

Like i've said b4, cops just don't make house calls to find a little joint or something, they only do that if they suspect a significant amount is present. Doesn't matter if its pot, coke or heroin.

Second Honeymoon
06-01-2007, 05:24 PM
you people are all too jumpy on the suspension button. Vick will play, Vick will start, and Vick aint going to jail. That you guys want to crucify him for dogfighting is laughable, or lest we all forget that there is a mountain of evidence that ray lewis KILLED SOMEBODY and walked scott free and suits up every sunday. Vick is good for the NFL, good for ratings, and good for marketing. Give you 3 guesses as to the most sold jersey in the nfl. Nothing is going to happen to Mike Vick.

you do realize what dogfighting is, right?
you do realize that thousands of innocent dogs die to fulfill these sick losers subhuman thirst for blood,right?

pointing to Ray Lewis as an excuse for Vick or claiming that he killed someone (when evidence points that it was a member of crew) and then saying that having a dog murderer is good for the NFL is what is truly 'laughable'.

Vick is just another loser who has such an inflated view of himself that he has to 'play God' to feel good about himself. Never mind the fact that most of the time the dogs are put down after many fights....sometimes both dogs.

You may want to read a little bit about the dogfighting sub'culture' and what it takes to train a fighting dog. it takes rabbits, kittens, cats, small dogs, and other pitbulls.....oh and lots of pain, suffering, blood, death, and MONEY. Vick funded the thing and his butt is gonna get pinched and the league will be better for it. no doubt about it. dude can go hang out in the 'hood' with his convict brother for all I care. they are peas in a pod.

Maybe the reason the NFL is having so many problems right now is the fact that bad guys like Lewis and even the 'White House'-era Cowboys were left to run amuck for the most part. That was the Tagliabue era. Once police blotters became as prevalent as replays on ESPN the NFL decided to get tough. Notice how PacMan was kicked to the curb like a nickel skank by Goodell.

It's a new time and the paying public isn't going to support a scumbag like Vick who has to get his jollies from a bloodsport because he can't get his jollies from any females because his package is a ticking timebomb of herpes and gonorrhea(sic). Ron Mexico is just getting some karma thrown back at him....I don't care whether he goes to jail but he needs to be kicked from the league for a significant term based on the information being made public (at least 1 yr suspension)

Porky
06-01-2007, 05:47 PM
you people are all too jumpy on the suspension button. Vick will play, Vick will start, and Vick aint going to jail. That you guys want to crucify him for dogfighting is laughable, or lest we all forget that there is a mountain of evidence that ray lewis KILLED SOMEBODY and walked scott free and suits up every sunday. Vick is good for the NFL, good for ratings, and good for marketing. Give you 3 guesses as to the most sold jersey in the nfl. Nothing is going to happen to Mike Vick.

What evidence exists that Ray Lewis killed someone? At best, it's sketchy as to what happened there. I think your taking that fresh dough, and stretching it to suit your own agenda. In this case, the evidence already on the table overwhelmingly implicates Vick. Right now, the masses who are casual fans or non fans of the NFL probably don't know much if anything about it. Once this really hits the fan, do you think Goddell can sit idly by and do nothing because Vick sells more jersey's than some other player?

infantrycak
06-01-2007, 05:59 PM
Give you 3 guesses as to the most sold jersey in the nfl.

Last year? The only source I have seen didn't have Vick at #1. LT was #1 and Vick was #10 in mens jerseys. McNabb was #1 and Vick wasn't in the top 10 for womens jersey sales.

swtbound07
06-01-2007, 06:29 PM
you do realize what dogfighting is, right?
you do realize that thousands of innocent dogs die to fulfill these sick losers subhuman thirst for blood,right?

pointing to Ray Lewis as an excuse for Vick or claiming that he killed someone (when evidence points that it was a member of crew) and then saying that having a dog murderer is good for the NFL is what is truly 'laughable'.

Vick is just another loser who has such an inflated view of himself that he has to 'play God' to feel good about himself. Never mind the fact that most of the time the dogs are put down after many fights....sometimes both dogs.

You may want to read a little bit about the dogfighting sub'culture' and what it takes to train a fighting dog. it takes rabbits, kittens, cats, small dogs, and other pitbulls.....oh and lots of pain, suffering, blood, death, and MONEY. Vick funded the thing and his butt is gonna get pinched and the league will be better for it. no doubt about it. dude can go hang out in the 'hood' with his convict brother for all I care. they are peas in a pod.

Maybe the reason the NFL is having so many problems right now is the fact that bad guys like Lewis and even the 'White House'-era Cowboys were left to run amuck for the most part. That was the Tagliabue era. Once police blotters became as prevalent as replays on ESPN the NFL decided to get tough. Notice how PacMan was kicked to the curb like a nickel skank by Goodell.

It's a new time and the paying public isn't going to support a scumbag like Vick who has to get his jollies from a bloodsport because he can't get his jollies from any females because his package is a ticking timebomb of herpes and gonorrhea(sic). Ron Mexico is just getting some karma thrown back at him....I don't care whether he goes to jail but he needs to be kicked from the league for a significant term based on the information being made public (at least 1 yr suspension)

Allright i'll say it. I could give a damn about dogfighting. There are too many battles in the world to get upset about every single one. Child abusers, Rapists, Cold blooded killers, people who torture people, Home invaders, Armed Robbers, people who swindle old people, mothers who drown their kids...these are the kinds of things i find despicable and get upset over. Dogs? Screw dogs. Also, to think that vick is an aberration in the NFL as far as dogfighting goes is laughable. As somebody else remarked about our own Dominack Davis....you'll find a lot of pitbull tattoos, and a lot of interest in the sport in the NFL's subculture. I'd venture that a lot more fan-friendly players are engaged in this bloodsport.

People beat the living hell out of each other for entertainment all the time. Its bloody, its violent. Such is life. The world isn't all kittens and sunshine. The man can play football. People will, and have paid to watch the man play football. The atlanta falcons are considerably better off with him at quarterback than with joey harrington. Let the man play.

Porky
06-01-2007, 06:59 PM
Allright i'll say it. I could give a damn about dogfighting. There are too many battles in the world to get upset about every single one. Child abusers, Rapists, Cold blooded killers, people who torture people, Home invaders, Armed Robbers, people who swindle old people, mothers who drown their kids...these are the kinds of things i find despicable and get upset over. Dogs? Screw dogs. Also, to think that vick is an aberration in the NFL as far as dogfighting goes is laughable. As somebody else remarked about our own Dominack Davis....you'll find a lot of pitbull tattoos, and a lot of interest in the sport in the NFL's subculture. I'd venture that a lot more fan-friendly players are engaged in this bloodsport.

People beat the living hell out of each other for entertainment all the time. Its bloody, its violent. Such is life. The world isn't all kittens and sunshine. The man can play football. People will, and have paid to watch the man play football. The atlanta falcons are considerably better off with him at quarterback than with joey harrington. Let the man play.

What, you can't fit all that compassion into your teeny tiny little heart? You remind me of the Grinch, whose heart was 10 times too small. Funny thing is even the Grinch loved his little sled dog. Maybe your heart is 100 times too small. Pathetic post.

swtbound07
06-01-2007, 07:09 PM
What, you can't fit all that compassion into your teeny tiny little heart? You remind me of the Grinch, whose heart was 10 times too small. Funny thing is even the Grinch loved his little sled dog. Maybe your heart is 100 times too small. Pathetic post.

Porky and Cak, Check your PM's

hollywood_texan
06-01-2007, 07:15 PM
Allright i'll say it. I could give a damn about dogfighting.

It seems your issue is that Vick should not be punished for this behavior.

I suspect it really doesn't matter what Vick does in your eyes.

I believe that is really your point.

What if President Bush was funding some organized dog fighting ring, knowingly or unknowlingly? I am sure you would have different opinion on the subject.

Second Honeymoon
06-01-2007, 07:48 PM
Allright i'll say it. I could give a damn about dogfighting. There are too many battles in the world to get upset about every single one. Child abusers, Rapists, Cold blooded killers, people who torture people, Home invaders, Armed Robbers, people who swindle old people, mothers who drown their kids...these are the kinds of things i find despicable and get upset over. Dogs? Screw dogs. Also, to think that vick is an aberration in the NFL as far as dogfighting goes is laughable. As somebody else remarked about our own Dominack Davis....you'll find a lot of pitbull tattoos, and a lot of interest in the sport in the NFL's subculture. I'd venture that a lot more fan-friendly players are engaged in this bloodsport.

People beat the living hell out of each other for entertainment all the time. Its bloody, its violent. Such is life. The world isn't all kittens and sunshine. The man can play football. People will, and have paid to watch the man play football. The atlanta falcons are considerably better off with him at quarterback than with joey harrington. Let the man play.

those people have a choice and the dogs don't. what about the dogs that are sacrificied and brutally slaughtered for the sole reason to see if a dog is ready to 'fight' and is 'game. btw those dogs die. oh, and 99.9% of the boxing/mma people arent dead, permanently handicapped, or shot at the end of the fight.

my point is that it is a privilige to play in the NFL and if having dogs kill each other is more important than your membership in the league than he doesn't have any business in the league. the league must not be that important to Vick because he is dragging the league through the dregs of humanity with this garbage. this isn't about dogs this is about respect for the league and about not having backwards arse dirtbags like Vick in the league. You put the smack down on Vick and you send a message that this type of behavior is unacceptable.

As for you saying other players in the league are involved in it, they arent the ones stupid enough to get caught financing and supporting it logistically. If AJ, DeMeco, Mario, or ANYONE on the Texans was involved in this, I would say 'goodbye and good riddance' without a second thought.

Porky
06-01-2007, 09:56 PM
Porky and Cak, Check your PM's

Got it. Thanks. I'll leave it as private, but sometimes things are not as they appear. :spy:

swtbound07
06-01-2007, 11:10 PM
those people have a choice and the dogs don't. what about the dogs that are sacrificied and brutally slaughtered for the sole reason to see if a dog is ready to 'fight' and is 'game. btw those dogs die. oh, and 99.9% of the boxing/mma people arent dead, permanently handicapped, or shot at the end of the fight.

my point is that it is a privilige to play in the NFL and if having dogs kill each other is more important than your membership in the league than he doesn't have any business in the league. the league must not be that important to Vick because he is dragging the league through the dregs of humanity with this garbage. this isn't about dogs this is about respect for the league and about not having backwards arse dirtbags like Vick in the league. You put the smack down on Vick and you send a message that this type of behavior is unacceptable.

As for you saying other players in the league are involved in it, they arent the ones stupid enough to get caught financing and supporting it logistically. If AJ, DeMeco, Mario, or ANYONE on the Texans was involved in this, I would say 'goodbye and good riddance' without a second thought.

Your compassion overwhelms me. God save the queen and the precious league. The NFL survived Bam Morris, I'm pretty sure it can stand up to Mike Vick. It seems a little much to call him the dregs of humanity when he hasn't been CONVICTED of anything. You know, all those due process things that people like to convieniently ignore in the court of public opinion. Your just out to crucify vick. You don't give a damn about slaughtered dogs, and its disingenuous to pretend like you do. The bolded sentence says you don't. The italicized sentence says you watch too much professional wrestling.

Fish gotta fly, birds gotta swim, Michael Vick's dogs gotta fight. Its the facts of life homie....learn to cope.

(Icak and Porky.....more clear now?)

real
06-02-2007, 11:04 AM
those people have a choice and the dogs don't. what about the dogs that are sacrificied and brutally slaughtered for the sole reason to see if a dog is ready to 'fight' and is 'game. btw those dogs die.

Let me start by saying I'm not defending dog fighting...

But at what point does our compassion for animals and other living things start and stop ?

Do we only have that kind of compassion for house pets ?

What about hunters who shoot a deer, and that deer doesn't die right away and runs a couple miles, bleeds out and then dies....Isn't that kind of cruel ? What about the fisherman who uses that smaller fish to catch that bigger fish ? What about using horses and dogs to race, merely for our entertainment, and then killing them when they get injured or can no longer perform? What about the Rabbits, and birds and other critters that were killed to clear land to put your home on ?

Is it because these animals are supposed to be 'house pets' ? Just about every animal in this world fights, and sometimes it's the death...Heck, dogs fight a lot on their own...

Again, I don't agree with dog fighting and I think if Vick is guilty then he should be prsecuted...But I also think if a person steals they should be prosecuted...I don't agree with dog fighting...but that's only because I love dogs, yet I realize my opinion on the subject is slightly biased...

If I were a horse lover, I'd probably be more adamant about the way race horses are treated or the way circus ponies are treated...

Do any of you guys think your opinions may be slightly biased because of your love for the animal in question, or do you believe all of it is wrong and every animal from rabbits, to turtles, to snakes should have the same treatment as our 'house pets' ?

Second Honeymoon
06-02-2007, 12:36 PM
Your compassion overwhelms me. God save the queen and the precious league. The NFL survived Bam Morris, I'm pretty sure it can stand up to Mike Vick. It seems a little much to call him the dregs of humanity when he hasn't been CONVICTED of anything. You know, all those due process things that people like to convieniently ignore in the court of public opinion. Your just out to crucify vick. You don't give a damn about slaughtered dogs, and its disingenuous to pretend like you do. The bolded sentence says you don't. The italicized sentence says you watch too much professional wrestling.

Fish gotta fly, birds gotta swim, Michael Vick's dogs gotta fight. Its the facts of life homie....learn to cope.

(Icak and Porky.....more clear now?)

I am out to crucify Vick? As for dogs, I care about the slaughtered dogs but this isnt about just the dogs. This is about protecting the league and keeping scumbags out of it.

if you think Michael Vick fighting dogs is a fact of life, well then you then admit he is guilty. It seems to me like your just a low expectation having person who holds no one accountable for anything and doesn't care about anyone but himself. just an observation.

bolding someone's words does not win the argument but I thought I wrote 'its not just about the dogs' instead of 'its not about the dogs'. As for professional wrestling, the last time I watched that garbage was when I was 8 years old watching Junkyard Dog and Hacksaw Jim Duggan. But whatever, keep making excuses for people's behavior. You can't take away from the argument that dog fighting is wrong and anyone engaged in that behavior doesn't need to be in the league.

Second Honeymoon
06-02-2007, 12:46 PM
Let me start by saying I'm not defending dog fighting...

But at what point does our compassion for animals and other living things start and stop ?

Do we only have that kind of compassion for house pets ?

What about hunters who shoot a deer, and that deer doesn't die right away and runs a couple miles, bleeds out and then dies....Isn't that kind of cruel ? What about the fisherman who uses that smaller fish to catch that bigger fish ? What about using horses and dogs to race, merely for our entertainment, and then killing them when they get injured or can no longer perform? What about the Rabbits, and birds and other critters that were killed to clear land to put your home on ?

Is it because these animals are supposed to be 'house pets' ? Just about every animal in this world fights, and sometimes it's the death...Heck, dogs fight a lot on their own...

Again, I don't agree with dog fighting and I think if Vick is guilty then he should be prsecuted...But I also think if a person steals they should be prosecuted...I don't agree with dog fighting...but that's only because I love dogs, yet I realize my opinion on the subject is slightly biased...

If I were a horse lover, I'd probably be more adamant about the way race horses are treated or the way circus ponies are treated...

Do any of you guys think your opinions may be slightly biased because of your love for the animal in question, or do you believe all of it is wrong and every animal from rabbits, to turtles, to snakes should have the same treatment as our 'house pets' ?

yes it is a strange line, but the line had to be drawn somewhere. People voted and legislation was adopted to ban the sport in 49 out of 51 states.

I think the biggest difference is that these dogs arent born, fed, raised, and then put in a pit to fight naturally. They are taught to fight. Dogs and other animals are sacrificied in order to give 'cheap' prey to these dogs to give them the killer instinct. The dogs are abused to make them mean. The dogs are a danger to the public especially kids when they get loose. The dogs are used as pieces in a game that is played by the losers of the world. The dogs are shot and put down if they lose a fight.

Put it this way, if I own a dog and you own a dog, and we walk by each other and our dog's fight, that is just a natural thing. it is not a felony and we arent scum of the world. but if you train a dog to attack another dog just for your own enjoyment, that is unnatural and sick. the whole organized dog fighting culture is not a natural thing. in fact, it is the opposite. a lot of public's problem with dogfighting is the process by which the dogs learn and become skilled at fighting and surviving.

swtbound - we get it. you dont care about dogs. you dont care about illegal activity. you dont think anyone cares about dogfighting and that just everyone wants to crucify vick. you can keep that opinion if you want, but I don't buy it and I don't think I am the only one. maybe once you learn a little bit more about the world and grow up a bit, your opinion will change. with a name like swtbound, it makes me think you are heading to San Marcos for your education. That is a great thing and I think as you grow up and get more educated you may see where people are coming from.

BTW, I thought SWT's name was changed to Texas State. All I know is that during my time at Texas, we went to some killer parties at SWT...and the ladies were in abundance.

swtbound07
06-02-2007, 12:53 PM
yes it is a strange line, but the line had to be drawn somewhere. People voted and legislation was adopted to ban the sport in 49 out of 51 states.

I think the biggest difference is that these dogs arent born, fed, raised, and then put in a pit to fight naturally. They are taught to fight. Dogs and other animals are sacrificied in order to give 'cheap' prey to these dogs to give them the killer instinct. The dogs are abused to make them mean. The dogs are a danger to the public especially kids when they get loose. The dogs are used as pieces in a game that is played by the losers of the world. The dogs are shot and put down if they lose a fight.

Put it this way, if I own a dog and you own a dog, and we walk by each other and our dog's fight, that is just a natural thing. it is not a felony and we arent scum of the world. but if you train a dog to attack another dog just for your own enjoyment, that is unnatural and sick. the whole organized dog fighting culture is not a natural thing. in fact, it is the opposite. a lot of public's problem with dogfighting is the process by which the dogs learn and become skilled at fighting and surviving.

swtbound - we get it. you dont care about dogs. you dont care about illegal activity. you dont think anyone cares about dogfighting and that just everyone wants to crucify vick. you can keep that opinion if you want, but I don't buy it and I don't think I am the only one. maybe once you learn a little bit more about the world and grow up a bit, your opinion will change. with a name like swtbound, it makes me think you are heading to San Marcos for your education. That is a great thing and I think as you grow up and get more educated you may see where people are coming from.

BTW, I thought SWT's name was changed to Texas State. All I know is that during my time at Texas, we went to some killer parties at SWT...and the ladies were in abundance.


I was....a long long time ago, back in the Fall of 03. Texas state has already had me and kicked me out. I wasn't saying NOBODY cares about dogs, just that I don't, and you don't. Where is the outrage about people owning pet snakes? You have to kill mice and other animals just to feed them? You care more about the integrity of your precious nfl, and this is just the latest false cause. When your writing these posts, you save your anger and most of your better writing for the parts when your talking about the nfl and how its being dragged into the depths and dregs of humanity etc. etc. ad nauseum. Your giving lip service to the dogs, but your really concerned with a league thats concerned only with its image. Other people on this board, yeah maybe i buy legitimate outrage about the dogs. You? Not so much.....

And as far as people getting my opinion...i'd venture to guess right now that your the only one who doesn't understand what im doing.

powerfuldragon
06-02-2007, 01:11 PM
http://www.miseria.net/ethug.jpg

Second Honeymoon
06-02-2007, 01:20 PM
I was....a long long time ago, back in the Fall of 03. Texas state has already had me and kicked me out. I wasn't saying NOBODY cares about dogs, just that I don't, and you don't. Where is the outrage about people owning pet snakes? You have to kill mice and other animals just to feed them? You care more about the integrity of your precious nfl, and this is just the latest false cause. When your writing these posts, you save your anger and most of your better writing for the parts when your talking about the nfl and how its being dragged into the depths and dregs of humanity etc. etc. ad nauseum. Your giving lip service to the dogs, but your really concerned with a league thats concerned only with its image. Other people on this board, yeah maybe i buy legitimate outrage about the dogs. You? Not so much.....

And as far as people getting my opinion...i'd venture to guess right now that your the only one who doesn't understand what im doing.

well sorry about you getting kicked out out of Texas State. lots of parties, lots of girls, and lots of drinking can make that school a tough nut to crack.

If you don't think I care about dogs, then you are wrong. My thing is I can't do anything about losers wanting to see dogs kill each other for sport and entertainment. I am not a prosecutor or investigator or judge. But I am an NFL fan and as a fan I don't want Vick to drag this league down into the dregs of society and give it more of a black eye than it already has from this.

bottom line is that I can't stop Vick from being a degenerate scumbag on his own time. but I do think we as fans can do something to get him out of the league. if they don't get him out of the league, we will see that the NFL cares more about $$ and people smoking weed than people involved in the felonious business of dog fighting and animal cruelty, abuse, and murder.

just my opinion. i know you are trying to play devil's advocate but there is a difference between the food chain/circle of life and the systematic torturing and murdering of animals that happens all throughout the dog fighting cycle. big difference. and that, my friend, is why is it illegal and a felony in almost all states.....

swtbound07
06-02-2007, 01:24 PM
well sorry about you getting kicked out out of Texas State. lots of parties, lots of girls, and lots of drinking can make that school a tough nut to crack.

If you don't think I care about dogs, then you are wrong. My thing is I can't do anything about losers wanting to see dogs kill each other for sport and entertainment. I am not a prosecutor or investigator or judge. But I am an NFL fan and as a fan I don't want Vick to drag this league down into the dregs of society and give it more of a black eye than it already has from this.

bottom line is that I can't stop Vick from being a degenerate scumbag on his own time. but I do think we as fans can do something to get him out of the league. if they don't get him out of the league, we will see that the NFL cares more about $$ and people smoking weed than people involved in the felonious business of dog fighting and animal cruelty, abuse, and murder.

just my opinion. i know you are trying to play devil's advocate but there is a difference between the food chain/circle of life and the systematic torturing and murdering of animals that happens all throughout the dog fighting cycle. big difference. and that, my friend, is why is it illegal and a felony in almost all states.....

Leonard Little. If your going to start a campaign to clean up the nfl from degenerate scumbags, you should start there.

Second Honeymoon
06-02-2007, 01:27 PM
http://www.miseria.net/ethug.jpg

ya bennigan'z...let the video in the link play for about 1.5 min. while Human Giant talks for a bit and this comedy group from NYC called Cracked Out comes out and man it gets funny. the performance is about those wannabe Gotti boys/white guys trying to assimilate black/hiphop culture but are really just little Ken dolls. If anyone watched Growing Up Gotti or live in Philly or NJ/NYC (or just about anywhere nowadays), they will know what they are talking about....

Ya Bennigan'z

http://www.mtv.com/overdrive/?id=1560050&vid=150016

Second Honeymoon
06-02-2007, 01:30 PM
Leonard Little. If your going to start a campaign to clean up the nfl from degenerate scumbags, you should start there.

as someone from St.Louis, I know all too well about Leonard Little. Guy is a dirtbag and shouldn't be in the league either. Killing a woman while DUI wasn't enough but had to keep on getting DUIs.....yet he still gets paid.

/agreed

The Pencil Neck
06-02-2007, 02:18 PM
Leonard Little. If your going to start a campaign to clean up the nfl from degenerate scumbags, you should start there.

There's a new sheriff in town. But he can't go around and throw people out of the league until they do something on his watch. Guys like Leonard Little and Ray Lewis have to know that they're on an extremely short leash. They have to keep themselves clean and incident free.

If Vick gets convicted of a felony, he'll be out of the league for quite awhile. If there is significant proof of his involvement, then he doesn't have to be convicted to be suspended. It's like a civil case. You don't have to show proof beyond a reasonable doubt, just enough to make innocence extremely doubtful.

TexansLucky13
06-02-2007, 05:19 PM
I started the thread about this on the houstontexans.com MB as 12th Man, with a much more colorful approach to the matter. On here I will opt to limit my choice of words.

It's all fun and games on the message board when we discuss whether or not dog fighting should or should not be legal. But the fact is, gentlemen..... it is not legal in the state(s) where Vick has been accused of said affairs.

As an adult and a rolemodel to many teenagers and young athletes, Vick should have known better than to be involved in something such as dog fighting. I don't care if you think it's right to have fighting dogs or not, but the fact remains that it is not legal in most states, and therefore it is something that should not be practiced in said states.

I have my own opinions about Vick, but even I can step back and look at the situation as unbias as possible. Vick has made a mistake, and he will pay for it.

real
06-02-2007, 06:27 PM
I started the thread about this on the houstontexans.com MB as 12th Man, with a much more colorful approach to the matter. On here I will opt to limit my choice of words.

It's all fun and games on the message board when we discuss whether or not dog fighting should or should not be legal. But the fact is, gentlemen..... it is not legal in the state(s) where Vick has been accused of said affairs.

As an adult and a rolemodel to many teenagers and young athletes, Vick should have known better than to be involved in something such as dog fighting. I don't care if you think it's right to have fighting dogs or not, but the fact remains that it is not legal in most states, and therefore it is something that should not be practiced in said states.

I have my own opinions about Vick, but even I can step back and look at the situation as unbias as possible. Vick has made a mistake, and he will pay for it.

I like the approach where people talk about how his moral compass is screwed up and he is a sick human being better...That holds more water than the "it's a crime" argument with most normal Americans IMHO....

Everyone commits crimes, some bigger than othes...Everyone has done something illegal whether knowingly or unknowingly...Everyone has broken a rule....

Attack him morally...Attack his values....call him sick....

But please don't act like this man is the only person to ever have disobeyed the law.

infantrycak
06-02-2007, 09:19 PM
Are you sure about this?

Politics aside for whether he will or should in this instance, yes the commissioner has the power to suspend players without any criminal conduct proven or even formally charged.

Second Honeymoon
06-02-2007, 09:24 PM
Politics aside for whether he will or should in this instance, yes the commissioner has the power to suspend players without any criminal conduct proven or even formally charged.

just ask PacMan.

The Pencil Neck
06-02-2007, 10:27 PM
Are you sure about this? Because that would empty the house quickly. Think about it. The DA didn't serve a warrant because of wording and I don't believe they have re-written it. Until they do, and he is arrested, charged or linked legally, it could all just be a bunch of hooey. The Commish can take statements from persons at large in the public, be significantly convinced there was involvement and he can then suspend Vick? That means that 10 or so people in every major city where a team resides can cook up a story, tell the Big Guy and out the player goes. I don't think that will happen. Not unless the NFL is ready to handle a big time lawsuit.

I think there is no doubt what will happen if he is convicted. However, if they fail to even bring charges into a court of law to indicate involvememnt, Vick will stay. I believe the last I heard the DA say was that they would not be re-writing the warrant. Anyone hear differently?

I'm fairly certain. It's exactly what happened to Pac Man and I think it forms the basis for his appeal. If there are a bunch of incidents circulating about you doing "bad" things, the commissioner is going to have some people investigate it. Then he's going to sit down, sift through the evidence, bring you in and talk to you about it, and then based on his take, he can let you play or he can suspend you.

In a non-martial, criminal court in the US (not in other nations), you have to be proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. In a civil case, you just have to be shown to be almost certainly guilty (I don't know/remember what the actual legal wording is.)

The commissioner isn't bound to the courts. If he thinks your behavior is giving the league a bad name, he can suspend you for any period he sees fit. After that it's going to be up to the player's association and your lawyer to have to fight to get you back into the league. At this point, I think the appeal goes back to the commissioner. I'm not sure if you can appeal to a higher court or what that higher court would be.

Mr teX
06-04-2007, 09:22 AM
Allright i'll say it. I could give a damn about dogfighting. There are too many battles in the world to get upset about every single one. Child abusers, Rapists, Cold blooded killers, people who torture people, Home invaders, Armed Robbers, people who swindle old people, mothers who drown their kids...these are the kinds of things i find despicable and get upset over. Dogs? Screw dogs. Also, to think that vick is an aberration in the NFL as far as dogfighting goes is laughable. As somebody else remarked about our own Dominack Davis....you'll find a lot of pitbull tattoos, and a lot of interest in the sport in the NFL's subculture. I'd venture that a lot more fan-friendly players are engaged in this bloodsport.

People beat the living hell out of each other for entertainment all the time. Its bloody, its violent. Such is life. The world isn't all kittens and sunshine. The man can play football. People will, and have paid to watch the man play football. The atlanta falcons are considerably better off with him at quarterback than with joey harrington. Let the man play.

That's pretty much it right there.......

Koolaid Time
06-04-2007, 09:44 AM
just ask PacMan.


To plea out that pending charge of assualting a police officer in Fayette County, Georgia, Pacman was offered 1 year in the Georgia Department of Corrections.

Pacman said no.

That was a stupid move. He wants to roll the dice with a Georgia Jury. The man is crazier than I thought.

edo783
06-04-2007, 10:40 AM
The man is crazier than I thought.

In my case, that would be pretty dang crazy.

Kaiser Toro
06-04-2007, 11:25 PM
and when it could not get more strange...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2893325

There have been no charges filed in the case of alleged dogfighting at Michael Vick's home in Virginia, but that doesn't mean that the home has quieted down.

According to a police report obtained by the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, the home in Surry, Va., was broken into between May 7 and May 18 and a number of expensive items were removed.

"I don't think it has anything to do with possible evidence," Commonwealth attorney Gerald Poindexter said of the dogfighting investigation. "I think it was some feuding over the spoils."

Three plasma televisions, two floor buffers, a wet/dry vacuum, a washer and dryer and a $17,000 leather sofa were taken from the Atlanta quarterback's home.

"Someone had attempted to break in the front window," the police report said. "The alarm was not working."

Whoever perpetrated the crime appeared to have entered through a rear window.

Poindexter indicated that the investigation of dogfighting at the property was not compromised. But he is still not close to filing charges.

"I don't have, to date, one investigative report," Poindexter told the newspaper. "I have nothing on my desk. I'm in touch with people who can assure me they can provide me the stuff. That's where we are."

ccdude730
06-04-2007, 11:53 PM
Three plasma televisions, two floor buffers, a wet/dry vacuum, a washer and dryer and a $17,000 leather sofa were taken from the Atlanta quarterback's home.

that sure sounds like a whole lot of work. you would need several guys and a big truck for all that.

Poindexter indicated that the investigation of dogfighting at the property was not compromised. But he is still not close to filing charges.

who will act first? poindexter or goodell?

Mr teX
06-05-2007, 09:04 AM
that sure sounds like a whole lot of work. you would need several guys and a big truck for all that.



who will act first? poindexter or goodell?

I really think goodell is going to cave under pressure from animal rights sects as the season gets nearer.

The Pencil Neck
06-05-2007, 09:29 AM
I really think goodell is going to cave under pressure from animal rights sects as the season gets nearer.

Cave? I'm not so sure that Goodell isn't going to want to pull the trigger on this just for the good press he'll get. It gives him a chance to say, "See. If you're tarnishing the image of the league, you're outta here regardless of who you think you are. The league is bigger than any single player." If there's some evidence that Vick was involved. He's going to be sitting.

With that said, he's going to wait until the investigations are over before making the decision. I'd expect it to be fairly close to the beginning of the season before we hear anything.

ccdude730
06-05-2007, 09:49 AM
Cave? I'm not so sure that Goodell isn't going to want to pull the trigger on this just for the good press he'll get. It gives him a chance to say, "See. If you're tarnishing the image of the league, you're outta here regardless of who you think you are. The league is bigger than any single player." If there's some evidence that Vick was involved. He's going to be sitting.

With that said, he's going to wait until the investigations are over before making the decision. I'd expect it to be fairly close to the beginning of the season before we hear anything.

IMO i could see goodell acting first. and he would probably say those exact things you mentioned earlier, but also say that he doesnt want it to be a distraction to the team trying to prepare for the upcoming season. what are the chances he will play this season anyway?

but i doubt he handles this until we hear from a grand jury whether or not he will be indicted

Mr teX
06-05-2007, 10:04 AM
Cave? I'm not so sure that Goodell isn't going to want to pull the trigger on this just for the good press he'll get. It gives him a chance to say, "See. If you're tarnishing the image of the league, you're outta here regardless of who you think you are. The league is bigger than any single player." If there's some evidence that Vick was involved. He's going to be sitting.

With that said, he's going to wait until the investigations are over before making the decision. I'd expect it to be fairly close to the beginning of the season before we hear anything.

yeah, i could see that happening as well, but the only reason i used the word "cave" is b/c i think he will act too prematurely to where the punishment wont fit the crime (suspended too little games), or it'll be too harsh if it's found that Vick's involvement doesn't prompt poindexter to file charges on him.

SheTexan
06-05-2007, 10:56 AM
who will act first? poindexter or goodell?

Neither! Money talks, in SOOOO many different ways!! MV is one of the, if not THE, most valuable QBs in the NFL, money wise. The NFL has kissed his over paid butt since he hit Atlanta. His marketing value alone is priceless, or was, to the NFL. If Goodell lets the hatchet fall on MV for his dogfighting involvement, how many other high priced NFL players will have to feel the rath of the newly crowned commish, for the same offense? Goodell will think long and hard before he drops the ax on this case. JMO. Just the fact that Poindexter, and all the other yahoos in Atlanta, have let this entire mess go on so long without SOMEONE taking the blame, raises a huge flag with the $$$$ sign all over it. Someone is getting paid off! JMO also!!

Second Honeymoon
06-05-2007, 07:07 PM
Neither! Money talks, in SOOOO many different ways!! MV is one of the, if not THE, most valuable QBs in the NFL, money wise. The NFL has kissed his over paid butt since he hit Atlanta. His marketing value alone is priceless, or was, to the NFL. If Goodell lets the hatchet fall on MV for his dogfighting involvement, how many other high priced NFL players will have to feel the rath of the newly crowned commish, for the same offense? Goodell will think long and hard before he drops the ax on this case. JMO. Just the fact that Poindexter, and all the other yahoos in Atlanta, have let this entire mess go on so long without SOMEONE taking the blame, raises a huge flag with the $$$$ sign all over it. Someone is getting paid off! JMO also!!

i agree almost 100%. not sure if goodell will let other player's possible involvement affect his decision though.

ccdude730
06-06-2007, 02:11 AM
portis makes a discovery...

"A couple of weeks ago, when I made those comments, I didn't understand the seriousness behind it," the Washington Redskins running back said Tuesday. "I didn't know it would affect that many people, didn't think what I said was that offensive. But after doing research and seeing how serious people take this, I shouldn't have made the comments."

Portis said he has since done research on the subject and saw people crying over two humpback whales trapped in a river near San Francisco. He said he even wondered if he was being watched on a hidden camera when a woman sitting next to him at an airport spread a blanket and put down a bowl of water for her dog.

"I had no idea the love that people have for animals or didn't consider it when I made those comments," Portis said. "I'm not even a pets man. I've got a fish that's the easiest thing to keep up. I've never been into dogs, never dealt with dogs, don't like playing with dogs. But at the same time, there's a lot of people who are crazy over pets."
link (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6890316)

infantrycak
06-07-2007, 05:37 PM
A Virginia TV station is reporting that investigators are on the Surry County property owned by Falcons quarterback Michael Vick executing a federal search warrant.

WAVY reported the latest search. The warrant is part of an ongoing investigation into dog fighting at the property owned by Vick.

Commonwealth attorney Gerald Poindexter and sheriff Harold Brown refused to execute a warrant last week based on information from a police informant to search for up to 30 dog carcasses buried on the property. Poindexter and Brown both said this week that the warrant could be re-issued and the search executed.

Link (http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/falcons/stories/2007/06/07/0608vick.html)

Something seems a little off on this report. The Feds would get their own warrant, not use the Sheriff's.

TigerV1
06-07-2007, 05:45 PM
Link (http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/falcons/stories/2007/06/07/0608vick.html)

Something seems a little off on this report. The Feds would get their own warrant, not use the Sheriff's.

The way things have gone with this whole situation have had me :um: more than a few times.

Grams
06-07-2007, 06:52 PM
The report I read, says the Feds are searching the property with a Federal issued warrant. Don't think they are using the local's warrant.

infantrycak
06-07-2007, 11:09 PM
The report I read, says the Feds are searching the property with a Federal issued warrant. Don't think they are using the local's warrant.

They are using a Fed warrant--the source I saw just muddled things.

This is getting interesting--so the Feds move in with a new warrant from a new judge since Pointdexter wouldn't bother to move on his informant's information and the response is?

"There's a larger thing here, and it has nothing to do with any breach of protocol," Poindexter said after the investigation was wrested from him. "There's something awful going on here. I don't know if it's racial. I don't know what it is."

From profootballtalk.com.

So the Feds moving in is racial? Gotcha. Couldn't be the local prosecutor was sitting on his hands--naaaah.

ccdude730
06-08-2007, 07:36 AM
From the overturned clods of dirt visible on the ground around the outbuildings behind the main house, officials appeared to be digging for dog remains Thursday, according to WAVY-TV 10 helicopter video.

They also carried several boxes to and from the main part of the home.

Federal officials told Poindexter that they would work with him, and that he could continue his case. But, he said, it was unlikely that he would re-search the property now.

"We've had six weeks of dealing with it, and that wasn't quick enough," he said. "Let's see how long it takes the feds. Let's see what they do.


Link (http://www.dailypress.com/news/dp-now-boddie,0,6918862.story?coll=dp-widget-news)

looks like the feds want to find those dog remains more than poindexter. its a sealed warrant i believe, but im sure the wording in this warrant is a little better? ....maybe?

also searched for that news station infantrycak mentioned and they have an exclusive interview with vicks cousin. nothing really interesting except when the interviewer pushes him to try and talk about the dogs being at the property. if you load the video, theres also a 1 on 1 with poindexter talking about the failed warrant. Video Player Link (http://www.wavy.com/global/video/popup/pop_player.asp?ClipID1=1497210&h1=Watch%20our%20exclusive%20interview%20with%20Da von%20Boddie%2C%20cousin%20to%20Michael%20Vick%2C% 20in%20its%20entirety&vt1=v&at1=News&d1=698133&LaunchPageAdTag=Homepage&activePane=info&playerVersion=1&hostPageUrl=http%3A//www.wavy.com/&rnd=97047780) (hopefully that link works)

Specnatz
06-08-2007, 09:02 AM
Is it must me or does poindexter look like he was paid off on this one?

TigerV1
06-08-2007, 09:25 AM
Is it must me or does poindexter look like he was paid off on this one?

Could be, but I think its more of a politically motivated foot dragging. From what I read, Surry County is split pretty evenly on people who want to pursue charges against Vick and people who want to just excuse it and move on. Since Poindexter is an elected official he has to play the game and do what he can do to get re-elected. Not that I agree with his tactics, but that's just my take on it.

At the risk of sounding like a "lemming" it is really starting to look like Vick's in trouble.

From Profootballtalk (http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm):


Though we didn't see any arms or legs (or wings) in the dirt, the tail end of the video shows one of the investigators fitting his face with a paper mouth/nose mask.

So why would someone want to wear a mask over his breathing holes on a 90-degree June day, unless the shovels had uncovered something that stinks pretty bad? Something like, say, a rotting dog carcass.

Mr teX
06-08-2007, 09:42 AM
Is it must me or does poindexter look like he was paid off on this one?


So you'd rather accept this conspiracy, but not any others where MV might've actually just been taken advantage of by his cousin?

nunusguy
06-08-2007, 09:57 AM
Could be, but I think its more of a politically motivated foot dragging. From what I read, Surry County is split pretty evenly on people who want to pursue charges against Vick and people who want to just excuse it and move on. Since Poindexter is an elected official he has to play the game and do what he can do to get re-elected. Not that I agree with his tactics, but that's just my take on it.
At the risk of sounding like a "lemming" it is really starting to look like Vick's in trouble.
From Profootballtalk (http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm):

Bet your boots Vick is in real trouble. This thing is too big to be settled at the local level. Politicaly speaking PETA and other animal rights groups are now big-time heavyweights at the national level, and they got more than enought juice to reach down and infleunce local politics in some hick place like Surry County, VA.
And you can bet Blank and his Falcon organization is getting tons of heat locally in ATL. ATL is a very high-profile city with an ego to match with too many infleuential, powerfil citizens who are unwilling to accept Vick and his mess as the face of the citys pro sports franchises.

infantrycak
06-08-2007, 09:59 AM
So you'd rather accept this conspiracy, but not any others where MV might've actually just been taken advantage of by his cousin?

Well there is a lot of objective information pointing away from the single cousin shooter theory whereas there is a lot of objective information pointing toward Pointdexter operating in a questionable fashion.

TigerV1
06-08-2007, 10:03 AM
So you'd rather accept this conspiracy, but not any others where MV might've actually just been taken advantage of by his cousin?

I seriously doubt Vick was taken advantage of (there I go being a lemming again). If Vick's cousin did take advantage of him then Vick has got to be one of the dumbest people on the planet. What was Vick's Wonderlic score again?

TigerV1
06-08-2007, 10:08 AM
Bet your boots Vick is in real trouble. This thing is too big to be settled at the local level. Politicaly speaking PETA and other animal rights groups are now big-time heavyweights at the national level, and they got more than enought juice to reach down and infleunce local politics in some hick place like Surry County, VA.
And you can bet Blank and his Falcon organization is getting tons of heat locally in ATL. ATL is a very high-profile city with an ego to match with too many infleuential, powerfil citizens who are unwilling to accept Vick and his mess as the face of the citys pro sports franchises.

Oh I completely agree with you, I was just saying that I am leaning towards Poindexter not taking action because he wants to keep his job. He wants people to think he is doing what he can, but his hands are tied. Blah blah blah... I am a little curious as to why he is turning this into a race issue. Is it really about race or is it about right vs wrong?

Profootballtalk (http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm):
(scroll down about halfway)


POINDEXTER PLAYS THE RACE CARD

Surry County, Virginia prosecutor Gerald Poindexter is providing even more justification for the decision of the feds to take over the Mike Vick dog-fighting investigation. Instead of shutting his mouth and getting on with his life, Poindexter is complaining about the fact that someone has finally begun to develop the evidence in the case....

..."There's a larger thing here, and it has nothing to do with any breach of protocol," Poindexter said after the investigation was wrested from him. "There's something awful going on here. I don't know if it's racial. I don't know what it is."

Poindexter had more to say:

"What is foreign to me is the federal government getting into a dogfighting case. I know it's been done, but what's driving this? Is it this boy's celebrity? Would they have done this if it wasn't Michael Vick?

"Apparently these people want it. They want it, and I don't believe they want it because of the serious criminal consequences involved. . . . They want it because Michael Vick may be involved."

Mr teX
06-08-2007, 10:14 AM
I seriously doubt Vick was taken advantage of (there I go being a lemming again). If Vick's cousin did take advantage of him then Vick has got to be one of the dumbest people on the planet. What was Vick's Wonderlic score again?

I'm trying to figure out why you guys think that this guy is supposed to be baby sitting his cousin & know exactly what kind of crap he might be up to just b/c he owned the house. That truthfully is all that they have on MV, everything else that has come out about this case can be pushed onto the cousin & everyone else he or his cousin let live there. If there was a paper trail, i'm sure they would've found it by now. The guy resides in another state for the better part of the year & 10 other people had access to the home for god's sakes people.

TigerV1
06-08-2007, 10:21 AM
I'm trying to figure out why you guys think that this guy is supposed to be baby sitting his cousin & know exactly what kind of crap he might be up to just b/c he owned the house. That truthfully is all that they have on MV. The guy resides in another state for the better part of the year & 10 other people had access to the home for god's sake.

Are you ignoring the fact that witness after witness is coming forward saying they can place Vick there at the dogfights? Or maybe the fact that Vick either admitted to being there a few months ago or that he was also seen at the house during a non dog fighting time. And you can friggin bet that if I am Vick, I know what's going on in a house that I own.

It would be my business to know what my cousins are doing in a house that I own and if any of them seemed slightly shady I would either 1) Not let them live in a house that I own or 2) Would be making sure that my integrity was not being screwed with by some low life cousin. Either way, Vick doesn't look good in this.

eriadoc
06-08-2007, 10:22 AM
I'm trying to figure out why you guys think that this guy is supposed to be baby sitting his cousin & know exactly what kind of crap he might be up to just b/c he owned the house. That truthfully is all that they have on MV, everything else that has come out about this case can be pushed onto the cousin & everyone else he or his cousin let live there. If there was a paper trail, i'm sure they would've found it by now. The guy resides in another state for the better part of the year & 10 other people had access to the home for god's sakes people.

I'm trying to figure out why you're defending him so strongly. Sure, all the evidence that has been made public as of right now can be rationalized or the blame can be shifted. There is a difference between guilt being proveable in a court of law and the truth. When I go outside and everything is wet, I don't need to have actually seen the rain falling to know that it rained. Some things are just pretty damn evident.

ccdude730
06-08-2007, 10:30 AM
Is it must me or does poindexter look like he was paid off on this one?

after watching some video of poindexter, something doesnt look right. he is dragging his feet on this one, and maybe thats just the way he conducts himself but it seems like something is bothering him.

San Antonio Texan
06-08-2007, 10:39 AM
I do not have the link but the reason the reason that the federal government has now stepped in is due to witnesses saying the dogs were transported across state lines.

As in a kidnapping, or any crime for that matter, once you cross a state boundary, you are under Uncle Sam's Jurisdiction.

I believe that the DA is calling the race card is because he has lost control of the situation and is about to be perceived as incompetent. He is starting to look for cover.

TigerV1
06-08-2007, 10:43 AM
he has lost control of the situation and is about to be perceived as incompetent

Yeah, I think this man is already perceived as incompetent. He had a golden opportunity to do what was right and he didn't take it.

Mr teX
06-08-2007, 10:49 AM
Are you ignoring the fact that witness after witness is coming forward saying they can place Vick there at the dogfights? Or maybe the fact that Vick either admitted to being there a few months ago or that he was also seen at the house during a non dog fighting time. And you can friggin bet that if I am Vick, I know what's going on in a house that I own.

It would be my business to know what my cousins are doing in a house that I own and if any of them seemed slightly shady I would either 1) Not let them live in a house that I own or 2) Would be making sure that my integrity was not being screwed with by some low life cousin. Either way, Vick doesn't look good in this.

Witness after witness? 1 guy has come forward & said he could place vick at a dogfight back in like 2000; i believe when he was still in college at the time. Okay so he was at the house during the offseason during a nondogfighting time as you say, how exactly does that prove to be a slam dunk piece of evidence against him again? The guy comes from a bad place as does much of his family, do you really expect him to just turn his back now that he's made it?

I'm only defending the guy in this regard b/c in other threads with crap involving our players (weary), everyone is willing to give him the benefit of the doubt despite what has come out about the incident.

But in Vick's case, This guy is just despicable.

Second Honeymoon
06-08-2007, 11:08 AM
Is it must me or does poindexter look like he was paid off on this one?


he was at least 'leaned on'. He is now furious that the feds are getting involved because it is going to make him look bad.

for him to go to the 'racial' card this early, is pretty freaking sad for a public official.

Second Honeymoon
06-08-2007, 11:13 AM
I'm trying to figure out why you guys think that this guy is supposed to be baby sitting his cousin & know exactly what kind of crap he might be up to just b/c he owned the house. That truthfully is all that they have on MV, everything else that has come out about this case can be pushed onto the cousin & everyone else he or his cousin let live there. If there was a paper trail, i'm sure they would've found it by now. The guy resides in another state for the better part of the year & 10 other people had access to the home for god's sakes people.


you gotta be smarter than that, Mr. Tex. Vick is involved in this. he is involved in the breeding above the table and the fighting/training under the table. you cant be so naive to think that Vick doesnt know whats going on.

who pays for everything? who paid for the 'black houses' to be built after Vick bought the house? why did Vick buy the house? who pays to feed the animals? who paid for the equipment? who is saying 'no comment'? who is being fingered by witnesses who don't want their name known so they don't put themeselves in danger? who sold the house almost immediately at 1/2 cost in order to distance himself from this (didn't work)?

you may like vick but personally I can't believe your naive enough to believe he isn't involved in this sick enterprise.

Second Honeymoon
06-08-2007, 11:15 AM
Witness after witness? 1 guy has come forward & said he could place vick at a dogfight back in like 2000; i believe when he was still in college at the time. Okay so he was at the house during the offseason during a nondogfighting time as you say, how exactly does that prove to be a slam dunk piece of evidence against him again? The guy comes from a bad place as does much of his family, do you really expect him to just turn his back now that he's made it?

I'm only defending the guy in this regard b/c in other threads with crap involving our players (weary), everyone is willing to give him the benefit of the doubt despite what has come out about the incident.

But in Vick's case, This guy is just despicable.


wrong. other witnesses have come forward but havent gone to the media to get paid and have their face pixelated. the feds have witnesses, they have a paper trail, they have a blood trail, and they have other things that we don't know about. now its up to whether or not they have enough to teach Vick a lesson about being a humane human being and not an evil dirtbag.

ccdude730
06-08-2007, 11:19 AM
Witness after witness? 1 guy has come forward & said he could place vick at a dogfight back in like 2000

but the thing is, there is more than just that 1 guy on they showed on espn. poindexter talks about informants and their stories of seeing vick there.

Mr teX
06-08-2007, 11:34 AM
wrong. other witnesses have come forward but havent gone to the media to get paid and have their face pixelated. the feds have witnesses, they have a paper trail, they have a blood trail, and they have other things that we don't know about. now its up to whether or not they have enough to teach Vick a lesson about being a humane human being and not an evil dirtbag.

PLEASSSSSSSE show me a link to all of that, otherwise it's just unsubstantiated speculation. & No i'm not that naive; If you go back & read my posts, i've never insinuated that Vick wasn't involved in this at all in some fashion. All i've disputed with you guys up to this point is the level, nothing more. & IMO that has yet to be defined by anything that has come out about this case or what anyone has said.

in the interview by his cousin someone posted, his cousin has basically admitted guilt for "doing things he shouldn't have been doing in the house", why is everyone dismissing this guy like his role in this is minor, when the cops were already on him for drugs, things like that go to credibility.

How was it being financied you asked? I'm sure you know what type of money floats around those things, financing this crap is relatively easy.

The problem i'm having is with this hypocritical board i guess. The willingness to indulge in conspiracy theories that fit what they think happened/should happen but dismissing others equally as probable that don't fit.

ccdude730
06-08-2007, 11:51 AM
on that same video player, there is a video on the left called "1 on 1 with poindexter" where a mr. fox asks him if he can put vick at the dog fights.

that is where you are going to hear him talk about more than 1 source. the video is mainly about him talking about the failed search warrant (says he did not want to build searches on past searches)

Second Honeymoon
06-08-2007, 01:05 PM
PLEASSSSSSSE show me a link to all of that, otherwise it's just unsubstantiated speculation. & No i'm not that naive; If you go back & read my posts, i've never insinuated that Vick wasn't involved in this at all in some fashion. All i've disputed with you guys up to this point is the level, nothing more. & IMO that has yet to be defined by anything that has come out about this case or what anyone has said.

in the interview by his cousin someone posted, his cousin has basically admitted guilt for "doing things he shouldn't have been doing in the house", why is everyone dismissing this guy like his role in this is minor, when the cops were already on him for drugs, things like that go to credibility.

How was it being financied you asked? I'm sure you know what type of money floats around those things, financing this crap is relatively easy.

The problem i'm having is with this hypocritical board i guess. The willingness to indulge in conspiracy theories that fit what they think happened/should happen but dismissing others equally as probable that don't fit.

paper trail = vick owns the house, vick paid the contractor for the building of the black houses, was present during construction, his $$ used
blood trail = dogs buried on property, blood stains on carpet, blood on training devices
witness trail = witness implicating him as being involved and being present on property, during construction, and in some cases during fights

as for your statement on how its financed, you seem to think that hundreds of thousands of dollars (what it would take to build the black houses, feed the animals, buy the animals, and other aspects yet unknown) can just grow on trees. the cousin is a patsy for Vick, pure and simple. you gotta have seed money.

dude, i get what you are saying that Vick may get off due to some evidence being somewhat circumstantial and lack of willing public witnesses. totally agree. however, now that the Feds, DOA, and national power lobbying humane groups are involved, I think it could get really ugly for Vick. feds don't like to waste their time and I have a feeling they arent going to.

it was obvious that Falcons pride and politics were going to let Vick get away scot-free as far as local law enforcement goes. Money and fame can get you off those charges (just ask Paris) but only true 'playas' like Cheney, Rummy, and Bush can evade the feds.

Specnatz
06-08-2007, 01:22 PM
PLEASSSSSSSE show me a link to all of that, otherwise it's just unsubstantiated speculation. & No i'm not that naive; If you go back & read my posts, i've never insinuated that Vick wasn't involved in this at all in some fashion. All i've disputed with you guys up to this point is the level, nothing more. & IMO that has yet to be defined by anything that has come out about this case or what anyone has said.

in the interview by his cousin someone posted, his cousin has basically admitted guilt for "doing things he shouldn't have been doing in the house", why is everyone dismissing this guy like his role in this is minor, when the cops were already on him for drugs, things like that go to credibility.

How was it being financied you asked? I'm sure you know what type of money floats around those things, financing this crap is relatively easy.

The problem i'm having is with this hypocritical board i guess. The willingness to indulge in conspiracy theories that fit what they think happened/should happen but dismissing others equally as probable that don't fit.


No one is dismissing anything, you are because it is Mike Vick. Yes his cousin is guilty, but you seem to think he did all this without the guy who owns the house knowing a single thing about it. That has been proven to be a lie .. I never go there says Vick. Look his cusin is just as guilty and he is going down, that is not what anyone is debating or worried about, because that is a fact. What evryone wants is complete uncovery of all the parties involved and this includes MV. So that is why no one brings up his cousin.

Now I may get slamed for this but I will ask it, please Tex tell us all why you are so wanting MV to not be guilty? Are you related to him, did you go to the same school (college or high school) or is it race, what is the reason. I would really like to know why you want him to be let off the hook and poindexter to drag his feet and do absolutely nothing. There has to be a real good reason because you want to throw weary out to try and devert attention away from Vick, but hey there is a thread about him already and you want to go bad mouth him you can all you want on that thread.

Corrosion
06-08-2007, 01:30 PM
Is it must me or does poindexter look like he was paid off on this one?

Ive been saying that this whole mess smells for some time .....

Start with the fact that he didnt execute the original warrant and search the property for evidence in effect giving ample time / opportunity for any "Evidence" be removed or cleaned up . They even let the property be SOLD since this came about . Letting the property change hands sure didnt preserve the integrity of any evidence that there may have been .

(The house was valued at $747,000 and sold for $350,000 on May 9th , the same day it was put on the market . Taking a near $397k loss in it self says quite a bit .)

End with his coments .... From todays Chronicle

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/4872502.html



"What is foreign to me is the federal government getting into a dogfighting case," Poindexter said. "I know it's been done, but what's driving this? Is it this boy's celebrity? Would they have done this if it wasn't Michael Vick?"

Poindexter said he was "absolutely floored" that federal officials got involved, and that he believes he and Sheriff Harold D. Brown handled the investigation properly.

"Apparently these people want it," Poindexter said. "They want it, and I don't believe they want it because of the serious criminal consequences involved. ... They want it because Michael Vick may be involved."

Poindexter said he found out about a sealed search warrant filed in the U.S. Attorney's office about the time federal investigators executed it Thursday.

"If they've made a judgment that we're not acting prudently and with dispatch based on what we have, they've not acting very wisely," Poindexter said.



Seems to me they are acting because you havent Mr. Buford T. Justice .... errrr Commonwealth's Attorney Gerald G. Poindexter ..... You dropped the ball .

Mr teX
06-08-2007, 02:15 PM
No one is dismissing anything, you are because it is Mike Vick. Yes his cousin is guilty, but you seem to think he did all this without the guy who owns the house knowing a single thing about it. That has been proven to be a lie .. I never go there says Vick. Look his cusin is just as guilty and he is going down, that is not what anyone is debating or worried about, because that is a fact. What evryone wants is complete uncovery of all the parties involved and this includes MV. So that is why no one brings up his cousin.

Now I may get slamed for this but I will ask it, please Tex tell us all why you are so wanting MV to not be guilty? Are you related to him, did you go to the same school (college or high school) or is it race, what is the reason. I would really like to know why you want him to be let off the hook and poindexter to drag his feet and do absolutely nothing. There has to be a real good reason because you want to throw weary out to try and devert attention away from Vick, but hey there is a thread about him already and you want to go bad mouth him you can all you want on that thread.

I'm not dismissing anything we just happen to be 2 people speaking from different sides of the topic, Again research my posts in this thread, i don't doubt he's involved, but i also don't think that he was the ring leader either.

I'm not going to slam you for expressing your opinion but in regards to the comments about poindexter dragging his feet... there's an old saying "measure as many times as you need to, but cut only once" or something to that effect. Maybe that's what Poindexter is/was doing, but we'll never know b/c Everyone is just so upset that the guy hasn't rushed to file charges on Vick with relatively circumstantial evidence.

As for everything else, I don't know poindexter or Vick or his cousin & I'm the last guy to play the race card. He bought a house & paid for sheds in the back, That's not uncommon for people who have houses on a pretty sizeable piece of land so if that's what you call a paper trail 2nd honeymoon, well good luck proving that he bought/built those houses exclusively for dog fighting. There is something to be said for taking your time & The feds are only taking this over b/c they don't want to appear soft on Animal Cruelty.

Also 2nd honeymoon..... 30,000 - 100,000 is not exactly small change, win a fight here, there & you're set up for a little while as far as your expenses goes.

And i only brought up weary to show the hypocrisy on this board, & if you check in there, I let them hear about it too...

Porky
06-08-2007, 02:32 PM
This guy is two peas in a pod with that rotten DA in the Duke rape case. This guy has about as much credibility as Paris Hilton at a MENSA convention. Thank Goodness the Feds have moved in. If I lived in Surry County, I would want an investigation opened into this guys motives, as they sure as hell aren't with the taxpayers.

Second Honeymoon
06-08-2007, 02:58 PM
I'm not dismissing anything we just happen to be 2 people speaking from different sides of the topic, Again research my posts in this thread, i don't doubt he's involved, but i also don't think that he was the ring leader either.

I'm not going to slam you for expressing your opinion but in regards to the comments about poindexter dragging his feet... there's an old saying "measure as many times as you need to, but cut only once" or something to that effect. Maybe that's what Poindexter is/was doing, but we'll never know b/c Everyone is just so upset that the guy hasn't rushed to file charges on Vick with relatively circumstantial evidence.



Also 2nd honeymoon..... 30,000 - 100,000 is not exactly small change, win a fight here, there & you're set up for a little while as far as your expenses goes.

And i only brought up weary to show the hypocrisy on this board, & if you check in there, I let them hear about it too...
you got a good argument there and I agree with that. I just think the NFL can't afford to wait on an actual conviction. that is why NFL Security is already 'on the case'. They can get info out of people better than teh police.

in order to win a fight you must procure the money to train dog(s), house dog(s), and fight dogs. it all starts somewhere and all signs point to Vick

I don't feel that Vick is the 'ringleader' of some vast multi-national dog fighting ring HOWEVER I feel he is a big player in the game and his behavior/judgement and even his business ventures have helped 'enable' others to go down with him and of that there is no question. I seriously doubt he is the only player to be involved in this but he is the only one stupid and/or unlucky enough to get caught with his pants down.

Mr teX
06-08-2007, 03:24 PM
Yeah, he'll get what's coming to him from both the NFL & the US judicial system, I just would rather they take their time & get it right rather than rushing b/c when that happens, it opens the door to even more opportunities for the guy to weasel out of whatever role he played in this whole thing.

Second Honeymoon
06-08-2007, 03:45 PM
Yeah, he'll get what's coming to him from both the NFL & the US judicial system, I just would rather they take their time & get it right rather than rushing b/c when that happens, it opens the door to even more opportunities for the guy to weasel out of whatever role he played in this whole thing.

I hear ya and agree. Whether he goes to jail or not is really none of my business. May the best lawyer win. I just dont want criminal elements to continue to dominate the news about the NFL. The line must be drawn that association with and the enabling/funding of criminal elements (family or friend) must not be allowed. I love my NFL and Vick is bringing the league down into the sewers with this type of behavior.

Specnatz
06-08-2007, 04:04 PM
This guy is two peas in a pod with that rotten DA in the Duke rape case. This guy has about as much credibility as Paris Hilton at a MENSA convention. Thank Goodness the Feds have moved in. If I lived in Surry County, I would want an investigation opened into this guys motives, as they sure as hell aren't with the taxpayers.

Nice :cool:


What do Poindexter, Mike Nifong, and Ray Nagin all have in common?

They are using high profile incidents to get re-elected versus doing their job correctly.

Second Honeymoon
06-08-2007, 05:29 PM
Can you say d'oh? I bet Michael can.

Upwards of three dozen dog carcasses were found buried during a federal search of the property. I guess they all died of natural causes, too....

once the department of agriculture got on this, it was pretty much GAME OVER for MV. its a pity, he has a lot of talent.

http://www.wvec.com/news/topstories/stories/wvec_local_060807_vick_property_update.29fbf67a.ht ml

infantrycak
06-08-2007, 05:38 PM
Upwards of three dozen dog carcasses were found buried during a federal search of the property.

Vick better call up Paris Hilton's psychiatrist for tips on medical conditions to get out of jail. If those are adult dogs rather than pups there is no excuse for a legitimate breeding operation having those kinds of loses.

To save Mr.Tex a post--of course Vick's cousin could have buried all the dogs.

To save me a post--at least under Virginia law Vick didn't have to know about the dog fighting or participate in it so long as it happened on his property.

Wonder if Atlanta will take a shot at Culpepper now?

edo783
06-08-2007, 05:46 PM
Wonder if Atlanta will take a shot at Culpepper now?

That would seem to make sense. I wonder how long they sit on the MV issue before moving on Pep? If they do, that will be a pretty good indicator of how they think it is going to go.

Second Honeymoon
06-08-2007, 05:51 PM
Vick better call up Paris Hilton's psychiatrist for tips on medical conditions to get out of jail. If those are adult dogs rather than pups there is no excuse for a legitimate breeding operation having those kinds of loses.

To save Mr.Tex a post--of course Vick's cousin could have buried all the dogs.

To save me a post--at least under Virginia law Vick didn't have to know about the dog fighting or participate in it so long as it happened on his property.

Wonder if Atlanta will take a shot at Culpepper now?

and the wheels keep on turning....

will Joey or Shockley start getting more reps? the Falcons brass needs to start looking at contingency plans and worse case scenarios because they are becoming more and more likely. Would the evidence gathered be officially sealed and not made available/usable by NFL Security? These are the questions the Falcons brass needs to be asking themselves. Do they just stay the course with Vick as the defacto starter or do they look at things realistically and see that they may not have Vick for the forseeable future?

Eventually Blank or the NFL needs to take a stand. The NFL doesn't need this stuff right about now. The precedent was set with PacMan. The best thing to happen would be for Vick to fess up, cooperate with the investigation, and let his lawyers and $$ save his arse and throw himself on the mercy of the NFL. This lowers the damage to the NFL and he may get some leniency (probably still a year ban) in that case.

Porky
06-08-2007, 05:53 PM
Vick better call up Paris Hilton's psychiatrist for tips on medical conditions to get out of jail. If those are adult dogs rather than pups there is no excuse for a legitimate breeding operation having those kinds of loses.

To save Mr.Tex a post--of course Vick's cousin could have buried all the dogs.

To save me a post--at least under Virginia law Vick didn't have to know about the dog fighting or participate in it so long as it happened on his property.

Wonder if Atlanta will take a shot at Culpepper now?


It also depends on the condition of the carcuses, assuming that can be ascertained, which I think easily could with modern foresincs, and depending on the age of the deceased canines. Looks like game, set, match for Vick.

Poor things suffered at the hands of this animal aka Vick and his cronies. I say drop the hammer. Lifetime NFL suspension for Vick plus jailtime for him and all his cronies. We need to send a STRONG message to the rest of these losers.

Porky
06-08-2007, 06:05 PM
Oh I completely agree with you, I was just saying that I am leaning towards Poindexter not taking action because he wants to keep his job. He wants people to think he is doing what he can, but his hands are tied. Blah blah blah... I am a little curious as to why he is turning this into a race issue. Is it really about race or is it about right vs wrong?

Profootballtalk (http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm):
(scroll down about halfway)


This quote of Poindexter still bothers me. Something isn't right. Okay, let me just ask it, because it's been bugging me all day. I kind of assumed this guy is white because of the name. Seems like your normal Euro name. Does anyone know if he is black? Honestly, bizarre racial statements like that usually only come from the Jesse Jackson's and other race baitors of this world. If he is black, then that explains ALOT of the foot dragging, and statements like this. If not, then I am still scratching my head. There has to be a conspiracy here somewhere. Time for the tinfoil hat. :tinfoil:

infantrycak
06-08-2007, 06:12 PM
It also depends on the condition of the carcuses, assuming that can be ascertained, which I think easily could with modern foresincs, and depending on the age of the deceased canines. Looks like game, set, match for Vick.

Forensics are going to be a lagniappe if those are adult dogs, but I agree overall.

Porky--to answer your question, Pointdexter is black.

Porky
06-08-2007, 06:23 PM
Forensics are going to be a lagniappe if those are adult dogs, but I agree overall.

Porky--to answer your question, Pointdexter is black.


LOL. Okay, my spidey senses were really tingling on that one. I had no idea. But, it sure explains his behavior. Thank goodness the feds moved in on this incompetent loser.

Mr teX
06-08-2007, 07:42 PM
Vick better call up Paris Hilton's psychiatrist for tips on medical conditions to get out of jail. If those are adult dogs rather than pups there is no excuse for a legitimate breeding operation having those kinds of loses.

To save Mr.Tex a post--of course Vick's cousin could have buried all the dogs.
To save me a post--at least under Virginia law Vick didn't have to know about the dog fighting or participate in it so long as it happened on his property.

Wonder if Atlanta will take a shot at Culpepper now?


LOL, funny. They still have to put him at an actual dog fight in that house though, that will seal the deal...

infantrycak
06-08-2007, 08:26 PM
LOL, funny. They still have to put him at an actual dog fight in that house though, that will seal the deal...

No they don't. In Virginia it is a felony to have a dog fight occur at your property. It obviously is Vick's property so the sole thing they have to prove is dogfighting occurred at all. They don't have to prove he was there. They don't have to prove he knew about it. Sure those things may open him up to additional charges, but he can still be found guilty of a felony without any participation at all.

Second Honeymoon
06-08-2007, 08:51 PM
Forensics are going to be a lagniappe if those are adult dogs, but I agree overall.

Porky--to answer your question, Pointdexter is black.

ummm...i dont know wtf that means and I consider myself well read. damnit icak, now i have to hit wiki.
me thinks, i need a refund on my education.

from wiki:

Lagniappe means a small gift given to a customer by a merchant at the time of a purchase, such as a 13th beignet when buying a dozen, or more broadly something given or obtained gratuitously or by way of good measure; a bonus.[1] The word is used in Trinidad and Tobago, Puerto Rico, Louisiana, Mississippi, Arkansas, the gulf coast of Alabama [2] and south-eastern Texas. It was also once in common usage by antiquarian booksellers, without regional limitation, and is still used by more old-fashioned members of that tribe.

infantrycak
06-08-2007, 08:58 PM
OK--someone go watch the Davon Boddie interview linked at profootballtalk.com in the rumormill--I can't make it work.

I saw a clip of an interview with him today and he had all the classic body and eye language of a liar--looking down and away when saying Vick was never at the property, etc. PFT reports he claimed some or all of the dogs were planted--I'm curious if that is true.

SH--I bet you'll use that word now. Love that one and it really doesn't have an adequate synonym. Some other colloquial definitions I have heard for it are--something to fill in the corners (my favorite) and a little bit extra.

Second Honeymoon
06-08-2007, 09:11 PM
OK--someone go watch the Davon Boddie interview linked at profootballtalk.com in the rumormill--I can't make it work.

I saw a clip of an interview with him today and he had all the classic body and eye language of a liar--looking down and away when saying Vick was never at the property, etc. PFT reports he claimed some or all of the dogs were planted--I'm curious if that is true.

SH--I bet you'll use that word now. Love that one and it really doesn't have an adequate synonym. Some other colloquial definitions I have heard for it are--something to fill in the corners (my favorite) and a little bit extra.


maybe I will use it next time someone has an easy putt or layup.

TexansLucky13
06-09-2007, 02:10 AM
So how much jail time do you think this merits, at very least? At most?

Koolaid Time
06-09-2007, 09:24 AM
So how much jail time do you think this merits, at very least? At most?


Dogfighting is a felony under both Federal and Virginia Law. Depends on how many counts, and other offenses charged, such as money laundering, engaging in organized criminal activity, tax evasion, etc.

I'd say a minimum of 15-20 years easy.

GuerillaBlack
06-09-2007, 11:53 AM
Vick is free now because of his cousin. If they can't prove his cousin's lie wrong, then Vick is a free man.

infantrycak
06-09-2007, 12:20 PM
Vick is free now because of his cousin. If they can't prove his cousin's lie wrong, then Vick is a free man.

LOL You really need to read more of the thread and pay attention to what the statute requires. That and an exculpatory statement from a guy who claims the dogs were planted on the property isn't going to carry any weight with anyone other than blind Vick lovers.

Specnatz
06-09-2007, 01:07 PM
Vick is free now because of his cousin. If they can't prove his cousin's lie wrong, then Vick is a free man.

Like he has no reason to lie? Are you saying a drug dealer is a credible witness? Not to mention related to someone who is beining linked, yep he has no reason what so ever to lie.

Glad you are not running the legal system because only non-celeb white guys would goto prison. Between Nifong, err I mean Nagin, crap I mean Poindexter and this mental genius using the race card is always very indicative of someone being innocent.

Koolaid Time
06-09-2007, 07:46 PM
Vick is free now because of his cousin. If they can't prove his cousin's lie wrong, then Vick is a free man.


I'd be willing to bet that "cousin" rolls over on Mike Vick to save his own butt from the pen...

Mr teX
06-09-2007, 10:16 PM
No they don't. In Virginia it is a felony to have a dog fight occur at your property. It obviously is Vick's property so the sole thing they have to prove is dogfighting occurred at all. They don't have to prove he was there. They don't have to prove he knew about it. Sure those things may open him up to additional charges, but he can still be found guilty of a felony without any participation at all.

i only meant in the sense that they get him for every aspect of his involvement & not letting him get off the hook for anything. It's obvious that dogfighting was going on there, but if they really want to nail him, why not go for the jugular?

I and everyone else already knew he was dead to rights with this stuff going on at his property, proving that he knew it was going on was always the thing that would have him dead in the water.

powerfuldragon
06-13-2007, 01:32 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW0dhh_Aj6A

made me laugh.. someone took Harry Chapin's Cat's in the Cradle and redid the lyrics. the song's called dog's in the kennel.

swtbound07
07-13-2007, 10:36 AM
bump....i say bump.

HOU-TEX
07-13-2007, 12:06 PM
bump....i say bump.

Why?

Kaiser Toro
07-13-2007, 12:32 PM
Why?

He had his calendar set to remind him that it is potstirring:thirty.