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Koolaid Time
05-24-2007, 07:36 AM
From Yahoo Sports link right off the top of the screen...

The prosecutor investigating whether property owned by Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick was part of a dog fighting operation said Wednesday he still doesn't have solid evidence linking activities on the property to dog fighting.

Poindexter said there are no eyewitnesses who say they saw dog fighting at the home where 66 dogs were seized along with equipment that could be associated with dog fighting. The discoveries were made during a drug raid at the home on April 25.

Police also found items associated with dog fighting, including treadmills and a "pry bar" used to pry apart a dog's jaws. Poindexter has said they also found a bloodied carpet and blood splatters on the floor in a room over the garage.

Vick, a native of Newport News who starred at Virginia Tech, is a registered dog breeder. He said he let a cousin, Davon Boddie, live at the house, and that he didn't know a large kennel on the property could be involved in criminal activity.

This is NOT A rant against Michael Vick. This is a rant about the ***** prosecutor. This is an example of the "Reverse Nifong" syndrome among District Attorneys.

For every District Attorney that is out to railroad a Defendant on no evidence, misleading evidence or fabricated evidence, you have a DA that doesn't prosecute a case in the face of overwhelming evidence because he doesn't want the public backlash over prosecuting a popular local person.

How does he CREDIBLY explain what the investigators found? the Dogs and the Equipment? Its not like you can get this stuff at PETCO.

I bet there will be an influx of meth labs into Surry County Virginia... because this DA will buy an explaination that any lab equipment found is nothing more than a "High School Chemistry Class Experiment"

But wait, the U.S. Attorney for Eastern District of Virginia also has jurisdiction over any charges.

He could prosecute... if Gonzales doesn't replace him first..:shades:

Maddict5
05-24-2007, 08:03 AM
yeah what a poindexter :gun:

infantrycak
05-24-2007, 09:22 AM
Link (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AkQazqSDFIIauZ9gAg0FZT9DubYF?slug=ap-vickinvestigation-dogs&prov=ap&type=lgns)

real
05-24-2007, 09:30 AM
From Yahoo Sports link right off the top of the screen...

The prosecutor investigating whether property owned by Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick was part of a dog fighting operation said Wednesday he still doesn't have solid evidence linking activities on the property to dog fighting.

Poindexter said there are no eyewitnesses who say they saw dog fighting at the home where 66 dogs were seized along with equipment that could be associated with dog fighting. The discoveries were made during a drug raid at the home on April 25.

Police also found items associated with dog fighting, including treadmills and a "pry bar" used to pry apart a dog's jaws. Poindexter has said they also found a bloodied carpet and blood splatters on the floor in a room over the garage.

Vick, a native of Newport News who starred at Virginia Tech, is a registered dog breeder. He said he let a cousin, Davon Boddie, live at the house, and that he didn't know a large kennel on the property could be involved in criminal activity.

This is NOT A rant against Michael Vick. This is a rant about the ***** prosecutor. This is an example of the "Reverse Nifong" syndrome among District Attorneys.

For every District Attorney that is out to railroad a Defendant on no evidence, misleading evidence or fabricated evidence, you have a DA that doesn't prosecute a case in the face of overwhelming evidence because he doesn't want the public backlash over prosecuting a popular local person.

How does he CREDIBLY explain what the investigators found? the Dogs and the Equipment? Its not like you can get this stuff at PETCO.

I bet there will be an influx of meth labs into Surry County Virginia... because this DA will buy an explaination that any lab equipment found is nothing more than a "High School Chemistry Class Experiment"

But wait, the U.S. Attorney for Eastern District of Virginia also has jurisdiction over any charges.

He could prosecute... if Gonzales doesn't replace him first..:shades:

In all honesty that's really not enough evidence. Treadmills can be used just to keep dogs in shape. A pry bar can just be a precaution because you have so many pitt bulls that there is bound to be a fight to break out occasionally. And you can't prove that the blood spatter was the result of humans making dogs fight...

Not taking up for Vick, because I believe he knew what was going on. If he wasn't personally fighting dogs I think he knew that his cousins were. And if his cousins were just selling pitts, I think they knew what they were being sold for. But you can't charge him based on that evidence.

infantrycak
05-24-2007, 09:40 AM
In all honesty that's really not enough evidence. Treadmills can be used just to keep dogs in shape. A pry bar can just be a precaution because you have so many pitt bulls that there is bound to be a fight to break out occasionally. And you can't prove that the blood spatter was the result of humans making dogs fight...

Not taking up for Vick, because I believe he knew what was going on. If he wasn't personally fighting dogs I think he knew that his cousins were. And if his cousins were just selling pitts, I think they knew what they were being sold for. But you can't charge him based on that evidence.

Helps to know the statute before opining on what can be charged. Virginia has misdemeanor charges for spectators and felony charges for owning, possessing, training or transporting fighting dogs AND for permitting any of those acts on property you control. They do need to show Vick attended a dog fight or actively took part in anything. His ownership of the house and facilitating or purchasing the equipment or just knowledge of what was going on are sufficient to be charged.

Shaft75
05-24-2007, 09:43 AM
In all honesty that's really not enough evidence. Treadmills can be used just to keep dogs in shape.


Give me a break. I hope you aren't saying that having a treadmill for a dog is a common thing. No breeder or owner would have a freaking treadmill.

And you can't prove that the blood spatter was the result of humans making dogs fight

The bloody glove is never enough for some people huh?

It's sad that after thinking about it, you realize it might not be enough evidence. Like Bonds on steroids or OJ killing his wife... But, luckily there are informants and some good witnesses that can place him at dog fights. Hopefully his cousin will buckle under pressure from being interrogated.

real
05-24-2007, 09:44 AM
Helps to know the statute before opining on what can be charged. Virginia has misdemeanor charges for spectators and felony charges for owning, possessing, training or transporting fighting dogs AND for permitting any of those acts on property you control. They do need to show Vick attended a dog fight or actively took part in anything. His ownership of the house and facilitating or purchasing the equipment or just knowledge of what was going on are sufficient to be charged.

ummmm....ok?


I don't really understand the point you're making.

I opinioned on the fact that there isn't enough evidence to prove any of that; which led me to the conclusion that nothing can be charged.

real
05-24-2007, 09:49 AM
Give me a break. I hope you aren't saying that having a treadmill for a dog is a common thing. No breeder or owner would have a freaking treadmill.

I've seen many dog owners with tread mills....I've even watched animal planet and seen 'the use of treadmills' as a good way to keep your dog in shape if you can't get out and walk them. The ownership of a treadmill is not a crime. Putting your dog on a treadmill is not a crime. Your conclusions are based on assumptions. I'm not defending Vick, so you may calm down if you'd like. I clearly stated that I think he has involvement. But there is insufficient evidence to prove it at this point and if you charged him with anything it's basically be based from opinion.


The bloody glove is never enough for some people huh?

It's sad that after thinking about it, you realize it might not be enough evidence. Like Bonds on steroids or OJ killing his wife... But, luckily there are informants and some good witnesses that can place him at dog fights. Hopefully his cousin will buckle under pressure from being interrogated.

People like to twist what you say and fit it into their own little world. Personally I hope Vick is found guilty and sentenced to jail. I hope that anyone who commits crimes of this nature are caught and found guilty. My comments were based on the evidence that is available at this time. Nothing more, nothing less.

infantrycak
05-24-2007, 09:50 AM
ummmm....ok?

I don't really understand the point you're making.

I opinioned on the fact that there isn't enough evidence to prove any of that; which led me to the conclusion that nothing can be charged.

Where do you get "there isn't enough evidence to prove any of that?"

Vick owned the house--check.

Don't have to show Vick trained dogs in that circumstance so if his cousin was he can still be on the hook. There's plenty of evidence for a jury to conclude the cousin was training dogs--scarred dogs, wounded dogs, dog blood, pry bar, weight harnesses, treadmills, etc. You don't just take each piece separately, it is the combined body of information.

I've seen many dog owners with tread mills....

I have too.

Signed,
Clinton Portis

Shaft75
05-24-2007, 09:55 AM
I've seen many dog owners with tread mills....I've even watched animal planet and seen 'the use of treadmills' as a good way to keep your dog in shape if you can't get out and walk them. The ownership of a treadmill is not a crime. Putting your dog on a treadmill is not a crime. Your conclusions are based on assumptions. I'm not defending Vick, so you may calm down if you'd like. I clearly stated that I think he has involvement. But there is insufficient evidence to prove it at this point and if you charged him with anything it's basically be based from opinion.




People like to twist what you say and fit it into their own little world. Personally I hope Vick is found guilty and sentenced to jail. I hope that anyone who commits crimes of this nature are caught and found guilty. My comments were based on the evidence that is available at this time. Nothing more, nothing less.

Sorry but your opinion of this situation doesn't exactly shine through your comments.

I think that Vick owning the home and being placed at a dog fight is enough for me.

real
05-24-2007, 10:04 AM
Where do you get "there isn't enough evidence to prove any of that?"

Vick owned the house--check.

Don't have to show Vick trained dogs in that circumstance so if his cousin was he can still be on the hook. There's plenty of evidence for a jury to conclude the cousin was training dogs--scarred dogs, wounded dogs, dog blood, pry bar, weight harnesses, treadmills, etc.

You used the word 'if', and the phrase 'can still be' in the same sentence. Not exactly the statements I'd like to be associated with a conviction.

Sure. You can conclude that they were training dogs. Is that a crime ?

Heck, I put a weighted harness on my dog when I take her to the park. Felony ?

If I had a treadmill, I can guarantee you she'd be on it occassionally. felony ?

If I bred a bunch of pit bulls I can gaurantee you I'd have all those things. It's damn near neccessary.

But alluding to the fact that there is 'conclusive' evidence IMO is wrong. You can't prove that any human made those dogs fight. If you want to charge him with animal neglect or something like that...fine....But I don't see how you can charge anybody with fighting them just yet...Especially without any witnesses coming forward.

real
05-24-2007, 10:06 AM
Sorry but your opinion of this situation doesn't exactly shine through your comments.

Well the thread starter clearly stated that this wasn't about Vick (although I've stated several times that I think he's guilty and should pay the consequences). He said it was about the prosecutor/DA or whomever. My comments really had nothing to do with Vick but like I said you twisted them to have some sort of "Vick is innocent" meaning...My comments were strictly about the decision being made not to press charges.

I think that Vick owning the home and being placed at a dog fight is enough for me.

Vick was placed at a dog fight ?

My bad, I think I missed that.

Mr teX
05-24-2007, 10:18 AM
I've seen many dog owners with tread mills....I've even watched animal planet and seen 'the use of treadmills' as a good way to keep your dog in shape if you can't get out and walk them. The ownership of a treadmill is not a crime. Putting your dog on a treadmill is not a crime. Your conclusions are based on assumptions. I'm not defending Vick, so you may calm down if you'd like. I clearly stated that I think he has involvement. But there is insufficient evidence to prove it at this point and if you charged him with anything it's basically be based from opinion.




People like to twist what you say and fit it into their own little world. Personally I hope Vick is found guilty and sentenced to jail. I hope that anyone who commits crimes of this nature are caught and found guilty. My comments were based on the evidence that is available at this time. Nothing more, nothing less.


Well, you may not be defending vick, but i am b/c it is this type of rush to judgement that gets this country into trouble all the time...... see iraq war. people just can't wait until the trial, everything you said is plausible, the only thing Vick is seriously screwed with is the fact that he owned the house.

But just b/c he owns the house doesn't mean he knew what his dumb ass cousin was doing in there.

Texan_Bill
05-24-2007, 10:23 AM
Well, you may not be defending vick, but i am b/c it is this type of rush to judgement that gets this country into trouble all the time...... see iraq war. people just can't wait until the trial, everything you said is plausible, the only thing Vick is seriously screwed with is the fact that he owned the house.

But just b/c he owns the house doesn't mean he knew what his dumb ass cousin was doing in there.


I totally agree....

Signed,
Orenthal James Simpson.

Mr teX
05-24-2007, 10:58 AM
I totally agree....

Signed,
Orenthal James Simpson.

It's the truth though TB/OJ & you know it. If one of donald trump's trusted colleagues chose to open up a dog fighting ring in the basement of 1 of his many buildings, sure he's on the hook b/c he owns the building, but can he legitimately say he didn't know what was going on? Hell yeah he can...... unless of course someone places him at 1 of the dog fights. the same can apply to vick.

powerfuldragon
05-24-2007, 10:59 AM
If I bred a bunch of pit bulls I can gaurantee you I'd have all those things. It's damn near neccessary.
.

except for the blood spatter.

real
05-24-2007, 11:00 AM
except for the blood spatter.

I would try to avoid that...

infantrycak
05-24-2007, 11:03 AM
except for the blood spatter.

Actually it has been reported as more than a spatter--it was described as a room with a blood soaked rug. Combine that with scarred and wounded dogs as things xtru presumably would not have in a normal breeding operation.

Double Barrel
05-24-2007, 11:04 AM
I've seen many dog owners with tread mills....I've even watched animal planet and seen 'the use of treadmills' as a good way to keep your dog in shape if you can't get out and walk them.

Cesar Millan, "the Dog Whisperer", advocates use of a treadmill to help exorcise your dogs, too.

powerfuldragon
05-24-2007, 11:06 AM
Cesar Millan, "the Dog Whisperer", advocates use of a treadmill to help exorcise your dogs, too.
he was also an illegal immigrant.

Specnatz
05-24-2007, 11:08 AM
Well, you may not be defending vick, but i am b/c it is this type of rush to judgement that gets this country into trouble all the time...... see iraq war. people just can't wait until the trial, everything you said is plausible, the only thing Vick is seriously screwed with is the fact that he owned the house.

But just b/c he owns the house doesn't mean he knew what his dumb ass cousin was doing in there.

You go from dog fighting to the Iraq war? Taking an educated guess I would say you are referring to weapons of mass distruction.

FACT: Hussain used chemical weapons on Iran years ago.
FACT: He used them against certain sects of his own country.

I would take a wild guess and think he had them, but would not realize he used them all up killing people.

FACT: Cousin is to ignorant to have a job and no money except from the sales of drugs.
FACT: Vick is rich and owns the house.
FACT: He cares so little about the money going into the house he sold it for half of its value.

Yeah if he did not know what his "dumb ass cousin was doing" as you said it, then vick is dumber than a box of rocks. A dead box of rocks.

Some of you people amaze me, it is not even funny. I never knew that ignorance is/was bliss.

Texan_Bill
05-24-2007, 11:14 AM
Cesar Millan, "the Dog Whisperer", advocates use of a treadmill to help exorcise your dogs, too.

DB... It kills me that you know that.. J/K!

Texan_Bill
05-24-2007, 11:15 AM
You go from dog fighting to the Iraq war? Taking an educated guess I would say you are referring to weapons of mass distruction.

FACT: Hussain used chemical weapons on Iran years ago.
FACT: He used them against certain sects of his own country.

I would take a wild guess and think he had them, but would not realize he used them all up killing people.

FACT: Cousin is to ignorant to have a job and no money except from the sales of drugs.
FACT: Vick is rich and owns the house.
FACT: He cares so little about the money going into the house he sold it for half of its value.

Yeah if he did not know what his "dumb ass cousin was doing" as you said it, then vick is dumber than a box of rocks. A dead box of rocks.

Some of you people amaze me, it is not even funny. I never knew that ignorance is/was bliss.

Ignorance is bliss................. :splits:

powerfuldragon
05-24-2007, 11:24 AM
But just b/c he owns the house doesn't mean he knew what his dumb ass cousin was doing in there.

Legally, doesn't the fact that he owns the house make him responsible for anything going on there?

HOU-TEX
05-24-2007, 11:32 AM
I don't mean to butt in here, but can someone fill me in on what a pry bar has to do with anything. I might be having a brainfart or something because I can't figure out what it'd be used for in the alleged dog fights. Beating them??:confused:

infantrycak
05-24-2007, 11:37 AM
I don't mean to butt in here, but can someone fill me in on what a pry bar has to do with anything. I might be having a brainfart or something because I can't figure out what it'd be used for in the alleged dog fights. Beating them??:confused:

It is to pry the dogs jaws apart after they get latched on to another dog.

Texan_Bill
05-24-2007, 11:38 AM
I don't mean to butt in here, but can someone fill me in on what a pry bar has to do with anything. I might be having a brainfart or something because I can't figure out what it'd be used for in the alleged dog fights. Beating them??:confused:

Thanks for asking that.. 'cause I have been real curious as to the revelance of the pry bar too...

real
05-24-2007, 11:39 AM
Actually it has been reported as more than a spatter--it was described as a room with a blood soaked rug. Combine that with scarred and wounded dogs as things xtru presumably would not have in a normal breeding operation.

I've said it a bunch of times in this thread and other threads that I think Vick and his cousin are guilty.

But if his cousin says "yeah, sometimes the dogs get loose and get after it. That's why I have the pry bar to break up those occasional fights"

How are you going to prove he's lying without eyewitness accounts or video?

The only thing I can see them charging Vick or his cousin with at this point is animal neglect or something like that. I really can't see how you can prove that they made these dogs fight. If it were as easy as that, I would like to think they'd have already done it.

HOU-TEX
05-24-2007, 11:42 AM
It is to pry the dogs jaws apart after they get latched on to another dog.

Holy cow! That's some serious stuff! I never knew that. It kind of makes me sorry I asked. Thanks, I think.:)

Specnatz
05-24-2007, 11:46 AM
Holy cow! That's some serious stuff! I never knew that. It kind of makes me sorry I asked. Thanks, I think.:)

A pits jaw is in such a way that it locks in place so as to not break its grip on something. That is why they are used in fighting so much.

real
05-24-2007, 11:52 AM
A pits jaw is in such a way that it locks in place so as to not break its grip on something. That is why they are used in fighting so much.

Their jaws don't "lock". That's a myth.

Texan_Bill
05-24-2007, 11:52 AM
Holy cow! That's some serious stuff! I never knew that. It kind of makes me sorry I asked. Thanks, I think.:)

I really wish you wouldn't have asked about the pry bar.... :gun:

Texan_Bill
05-24-2007, 11:54 AM
Their jaws don't lock. That's a myth.

Myth (http://www.realpitbull.com/myths.html)

"Pit Bulls have locking jaws." The jaws of the Pit Bull are functionally the same as the jaws of any other breed, and this has been proven via expert examination.

The few studies which have been conducted of the structure of the skulls, mandibles and teeth of Pit Bulls show that, in proportion to their size, their jaw structure and thus its inferred functional morphology, is no different than that of any [other] breed of dog. There is absolutely not evidence for the existence of any kind of ’locking mechanism’ unique to the structure of the jaw and/or teeth of the American Pit Bull Terrier, says Dr. I. Lerh Brisbin of the University of Georgia (from the ADBA booklet, “Discover the American Pit Bull Terrier.)

infantrycak
05-24-2007, 11:56 AM
But if his cousin says "yeah, sometimes the dogs get loose and get after it. That's why I have the pry bar to break up those occasional fights"

How are you going to prove he's lying without eyewitness accounts or video?


It's called circumstantial evidence and a credibility determination. Folks get convicted on circumstantial evidence all the time. Somehow I don't think Vick's out of work, drug dealing cousin's testimony will be accepted at face value as you seem to think.

real
05-24-2007, 11:57 AM
Myth (http://www.realpitbull.com/myths.html)

Yep....

They have the strongest jaws of any dog breed + their stubborn + their agressive....

It is true that pits have the strongest jaws, behind only hyena's in the dog family if not in the whole of the animal family. It is said that they can exert upto 20,000pounds of preassure in a single bite.

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Pit-Bulls-3343/Lock-jaw.htm

real
05-24-2007, 12:02 PM
It's called circumstantial evidence and a credibility determination. Folks get convicted on circumstantial evidence all the time. Somehow I don't think Vick's out of work, drug dealing cousin's testimony will be accepted at face value as you seem to think.


I never said anything about his testimony being accepted. I gave my opinion on the subject posted in this thread.

I have not been to the house nor seen any of the goings on first hand and all I have to go from is what I read, and have seen on TV. How could I make an accurate determination about what somebody else will think about the situation ? I don't know what they'll do...They could say it's not enough evidence or they could feel like you and say it is. Hopefully the truth will come out and all those guilty will be prosecuted.

Texan_Bill
05-24-2007, 12:03 PM
Yep....

They have the strongest jaws of any dog breed + their stubborn + their agressive....



http://en.allexperts.com/q/Pit-Bulls-3343/Lock-jaw.htm

I have had that argument "lockable jaws" with folks for years.... but its all about what you wrote above.

HOU-TEX
05-24-2007, 12:04 PM
I really wish you wouldn't have asked about the pry bar.... :gun:

No kidding, huh? Spec had to go off and give me an in depth explanation. Sooo....what's for lunch? lol

Double Barrel
05-24-2007, 12:07 PM
he was also an illegal immigrant.

yep, living the American dream!

DB... It kills me that you know that.. J/K!

ummmm....it's a good show? :spy:

The Pencil Neck
05-24-2007, 12:08 PM
Cesar Millan, "the Dog Whisperer", advocates use of a treadmill to help exorcise your dogs, too.

A cross and some holy water helps get the demons out, too.

Hadn't heard of the treadmill as an adjunct to exorcism before, though.

The Pencil Neck
05-24-2007, 12:12 PM
No kidding, huh? Spec had to go off and give me an in depth explanation. Sooo....what's for lunch? lol

And once you start eating, are we going to have to pry you off of it. :bat:


Man.

Tell me I didn't go there.

Texan_Bill
05-24-2007, 12:12 PM
No kidding, huh? Spec had to go off and give me an in depth explanation. Sooo....what's for lunch? lol

Way to go Spec.... Now, HOU-TEX and I will both be skipping lunch...

Texan_Bill
05-24-2007, 12:13 PM
ummmm....it's a good show? :spy:

Is it? Is it really??? :hides:

HOU-TEX
05-24-2007, 12:19 PM
And once you start eating, are we going to have to pry you off of it. :bat:


Man.

Tell me I didn't go there.

Well, when there's steak involved, there's gonna have to be some kinda tool to pry me off of it.:wild:

Way to go Spec.... Now, HOU-TEX and I will both be skipping lunch...

LOL! I'm sure my big azz will still be able to choke something down.

infantrycak
05-24-2007, 12:20 PM
From profootballtalk.com:

"I'm convinced from what I saw that dog fighting has occurred down there, but who was involved in it I don't know at this point," Poindexter said last week. "We're going to find out."

And the evidence apparently is there. Mark Kumpf, a dog-fighting expert who is assisting the present investigation, told the Virginian-Pilot in response to Poindexter's most recent remarks: "There is more evidence there than has been used to convict several other people in Virginia."

eriadoc
05-24-2007, 12:20 PM
Give me a break. I hope you aren't saying that having a treadmill for a dog is a common thing. No breeder or owner would have a freaking treadmill.

Ummm .... I have a treadmill for my Welsh Corgi. I got the idea from the Dog Whisperer show. I didn't think they were that rare as to only be associated with dog fighting.

real
05-24-2007, 12:30 PM
Ummm .... I have a treadmill for my Welsh Corgi.

I've always wanted a Welsh Corgi...They're supposed to be one of the smartest if not THE smartest breed...

Double Barrel
05-24-2007, 12:34 PM
A cross and some holy water helps get the demons out, too.

Hadn't heard of the treadmill as an adjunct to exorcism before, though.

lol:

Man, what's up with my spelling recently? :um: good repy, tho'!

Is it? Is it really??? :hides:

I watch it and I don't even have a dog! :shades:

He is pretty amazing with the way he teaches people to deal with 'problem' dogs. The majority of issues are the fault of the owners more than anything else.

He doesn't do cats, though. I doubt anyone could be a "cat whisperer". They just give you that "you're a moron now fetch me some tuna" look.

Specnatz
05-24-2007, 12:35 PM
No kidding, huh? Spec had to go off and give me an in depth explanation. Sooo....what's for lunch? lol

I don't know what is in the cafetaria today, since my job has basically a nice cafeteria/deli in it.

eriadoc
05-24-2007, 12:54 PM
I've always wanted a Welsh Corgi...They're supposed to be one of the smartest if not THE smartest breed...

Mine's pretty sharp. He's a purebred, but he was the victim of some neglect/abuse for the first year of his life. I've had him for almost a couple years now, and I've managed to teach him to stay, go, lay down, speak/hush, shake hands, roll over, stand on his back legs, etc. Most importantly, I taught him to wait for my permission to fetch, eat, or get on the couch. And I have no clue on how to train dogs, for the most part. I just looked up some stuff online. So he's definitely a lot smarter than I am in that department :shades:

Koolaid Time
05-24-2007, 01:00 PM
And once you start eating, are we going to have to pry you off of it. :bat:


Man.

Tell me I didn't go there.


My wife just informed me that she is buying a pry bar to use on me the next time we go to the all you can eat rib night at Gabby's/Pappa's...

The Pencil Neck
05-24-2007, 01:15 PM
My wife just informed me that she is buying a pry bar to use on me the next time we go to the all you can eat rib night at Gabby's/Pappa's...

I'm thinking c-4 might be required. Someone sticks a pry bar in there, they're going to pull back a pry nub.


mmmMMMMmmmm... ribs.

2BCF
05-24-2007, 01:46 PM
Yep....

They have the strongest jaws of any dog breed + their stubborn + their agressive....



http://en.allexperts.com/q/Pit-Bulls-3343/Lock-jaw.htm

For the love of Petey, Stop the hate! lol

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/pete.php

infantrycak
05-24-2007, 02:09 PM
For the love of Petey, Stop the hate! lol

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/pete.php

Turn on Cliff Clavin voice: It is a little known fact that drawing a circle around one eye will tame a pittbull.

Texans Horror
05-24-2007, 02:30 PM
Regardless of the outcome, I am glad for the attention being given to dog fighting. Maybe all this attention will help crack down on this activity, which is wrong any way you cut it.

The problem is that it is very difficult to pin animals rights abuses on somebody. In the Animal Cops shows, rarely does an abusive owner actually get reprimanded for his/her actions. The usual result is that the owner loses the animals, and sadly the dogs are often put down if they show signs of aggression. I think it will be the rare dog that has been raised in dog-fighting circles that can still be adopted, regardless of its breed.

I am glad the prosecution is taking its time with this. I would rather wait a year and the right people see jail time than to rush the case and they get off on a technicality. Lack of witnesses is the problem here, but I think eventually people will come forward.

As far as Portis and Samuels go, they have discovered knew levels of stupidity that haven't been discovered yet, and Portis will be lucky if he isn't investigated for dog-fighting since the man all but incriminated himself. He didn't just condone the sport. He became its featured speaker and poster child.

Shaft75
05-24-2007, 02:32 PM
Ummm .... I have a treadmill for my Welsh Corgi. I got the idea from the Dog Whisperer show. I didn't think they were that rare as to only be associated with dog fighting.

So if you were breeding such a "manly" dog you would have many tread mills for all of them to get in shape before you sold them off???????? What about a "rape" stand? Would you put your little precious in one of those?

real
05-24-2007, 02:45 PM
So if you were breeding such a "manly" dog you would have many tread mills for all of them to get in shape before you sold them off???????? What about a "rape" stand? Would you put your little precious in one of those?

excuse my ignorance, but what is a "rape"stand ?

Mr teX
05-24-2007, 02:45 PM
You go from dog fighting to the Iraq war? Taking an educated guess I would say you are referring to weapons of mass distruction.

FACT: Hussain used chemical weapons on Iran years ago.
FACT: He used them against certain sects of his own country.

I would take a wild guess and think he had them, but would not realize he used them all up killing people.

FACT: Cousin is to ignorant to have a job and no money except from the sales of drugs.
FACT: Vick is rich and owns the house.
FACT: He cares so little about the money going into the house he sold it for half of its value.

Yeah if he did not know what his "dumb ass cousin was doing" as you said it, then vick is dumber than a box of rocks. A dead box of rocks.

Some of you people amaze me, it is not even funny. I never knew that ignorance is/was bliss.


Not sure where you're going with that but, in any case that still doesn't mean that he knew what his cousin was doing. Ask yourself why is it that no one can place Vick @ any of the dog fights? Pacman surely had no shortage of people ID'ing him @ the scene during his fiasco & I mean lets just be honest here, If Vick was there or had been there frequently, people surely would've noticed b/c the guy is a superstar in the league & is an icon in virginia. & maybe he sold the house for 1/2 of its worth b/c i don't know............... he's got a 100 million dollar contract playing football & he deems it as no big deal money- wise to do so.

You're also forgetting that the guy is in atlanta for at least 1/2 of the year, so tell me, do you keep tabs on what your cousins are doing all the time? this is just like the water bottle/airport incident. i'm only defending Vick in so much about the "guilty until proven innocent" mentality that has become prevalent when talking about this guy. Ultimately, if Mr. "Poindexter" finds enough evidence that he's comfortable with, Vick will get what's coming to him.

Texans Horror
05-24-2007, 02:48 PM
excuse my ignorance, but what is a "rape"stand ?

I'm not sure I want to know...

Shaft75
05-24-2007, 02:49 PM
excuse my ignorance, but what is a "rape"stand ?

Have you read any of the articles on the whole thing?

It is used to strap in a females to get prego and they found a couple of them.

Texans Horror
05-24-2007, 02:50 PM
Not sure where you're going with that but, in any case that still doesn't mean that he knew what his cousin was doing. Ask yourself why is it that no one can place Vick @ any of the dog fights? Pacman surely had no shortage of people ID'ing him @ the scene during his fiasco & I mean lets just be honest here, If Vick was there or had been there frequently, people surely would've noticed b/c the guy is a superstar in the league & is an icon in virginia. & maybe he sold the house for 1/2 of its worth b/c i don't know............... he's got a 100 million dollar contract playing football & he deems it as no big deal money- wise to do so.

You're also forgetting that the guy is in atlanta for at least 1/2 of the year, so tell me, do you keep tabs on what your cousins are doing all the time? this is just like the water bottle/airport incident. i'm only defending Vick in so much about the "guilty until proven innocent" mentality that has become prevalent when talking about this guy. Ultimately, if Mr. "Poindexter" finds enough evidence that he's comfortable with, Vick will get what's coming to him.

I'm so glad I wasn't born a Vick. What a bunch of miscreants...

The Pencil Neck
05-24-2007, 02:50 PM
excuse my ignorance, but what is a "rape"stand ?

Dude.

If some people didn't like knowing what a pry bar was for, do we really want to get into the Rape Stand?

Shaft75
05-24-2007, 02:51 PM
Not sure where you're going with that but, in any case that still doesn't mean that he knew what his cousin was doing. Ask yourself why is it that no one can place Vick @ any of the dog fights? Pacman surely had no shortage of people ID'ing him @ the scene during his fiasco & I mean lets just be honest here, If Vick was there or had been there frequently, people surely would've noticed b/c the guy is a superstar in the league & is an icon in virginia. & maybe he sold the house for 1/2 of its worth b/c i don't know............... he's got a 100 million dollar contract playing football & he deems it as no big deal money- wise to do so.

You're also forgetting that the guy is in atlanta for at least 1/2 of the year, so tell me, do you keep tabs on what your cousins are doing all the time? this is just like the water bottle/airport incident. i'm only defending Vick in so much about the "guilty until proven innocent" mentality that has become prevalent when talking about this guy. Ultimately, if Mr. "Poindexter" finds enough evidence that he's comfortable with, Vick will get what's coming to him.

So, let me ask...

Do you think Pacman is innocent until proven guilty?

Texans Horror
05-24-2007, 02:51 PM
Have you read any of the articles on the whole thing?

It is used to strap in a females to get prego and they found a couple of them.

Great...

Mr teX
05-24-2007, 02:52 PM
Dude.

If some people didn't like knowing what a pry bar was for, do we really want to get into the Rape Stand?

I think it's pretty self explanatory....

HOU-TEX
05-24-2007, 02:56 PM
Dude.

If some people didn't like knowing what a pry bar was for, do we really want to get into the Rape Stand?

:sighs in a defeated way: All right, what's a rape stand?

:Pulls trash can near in case of pukeage:

Mr teX
05-24-2007, 02:57 PM
So, let me ask...

Do you think Pacman is innocent until proven guilty?

I don't remember what they charged him with, but i don't think it matters, he still gets his day in court regardless, it's up to the prosecution to convince the judge/jury of his guilt.

Texan_Bill
05-24-2007, 03:01 PM
Seems like they should call it............. I dunno, a reproduction device...

"Rape Stand" just makes it seem so cheap and dirty...

real
05-24-2007, 03:03 PM
Have you read any of the articles on the whole thing?

It is used to strap in a females to get prego and they found a couple of them.

wtf ?


Are we talking female dogs ?

I need to re-read some of these articles, cuz I haven't seen anything about a rape stand...

I've never even heard of anything like that before..

real
05-24-2007, 03:08 PM
Let's talk about rape stands, shall we?
These are quite useful, you know. When you breed a dog to be so aggressive, so angry, so frothy for blood that she can't even submit when she's in heat, you might need a little help with the reproductive process.
Well, you're in luck. These rape stands will allow you to strap your female to an elevated position, harness her head in a restraint and voila! Two months later, more four-legged, innocent puppies for you to train to kill.

http://www.roanoke.com/sports/mcfarling/wb/wb/xp-116755

eric138
05-24-2007, 03:12 PM
man, when I read "rape stand" I imagined them strapping male dogs in and reaming them a good one before a fight to make them more aggressive.

I agree with Texan Bill, its a reproductive device. i guess when you bread a horse and you lead them into a stall that is a rape room?

Oh and I need to get me one of them treadmills so I can sit my fat arse on the couch and watch Cesar Milan put them dogs in check instead of running my dog Jake.

Shaft75
05-24-2007, 03:25 PM
I don't remember what they charged him with, but i don't think it matters, he still gets his day in court regardless, it's up to the prosecution to convince the judge/jury of his guilt.

Well he has been charged in like what 6 different counties or something like that. So, what I am asking... Is it wrong to presume he is guilty? Mike Vick and his brother have both gone off of the path. So why is it wrong to presume Vick guilty? Especially when he owns a house that produces dogs that are groomed to fight.

BTW, if the defense can claim that it was a house just for breeding, shouldn't there be a paper trail to show that? Wouldn't the IRS be involved if there isn't? I figure if he wasn't breeding for fighting, but for distribution, then they should have some type of way to show their income. That might be interesting...

Double Barrel
05-24-2007, 03:33 PM
Oh and I need to get me one of them treadmills so I can sit my fat arse on the couch and watch Cesar Milan put them dogs in check instead of running my dog Jake.

lol:

Specnatz
05-24-2007, 03:43 PM
Not sure where you're going with that but, in any case that still doesn't mean that he knew what his cousin was doing. Ask yourself why is it that no one can place Vick @ any of the dog fights? Pacman surely had no shortage of people ID'ing him @ the scene during his fiasco & I mean lets just be honest here, If Vick was there or had been there frequently, people surely would've noticed b/c the guy is a superstar in the league & is an icon in virginia. & maybe he sold the house for 1/2 of its worth b/c i don't know............... to do so.he's got a 100 million dollar contract playing football & he deems it as no big deal money- wise

You're also forgetting that the guy is in atlanta for at least 1/2 of the year, so tell me, do you keep tabs on what your cousins are doing all the time? this is just like the water bottle/airport incident. i'm only defending Vick in so much about the "guilty until proven innocent" mentality that has become prevalent when talking about this guy. Ultimately, if Mr. "Poindexter" finds enough evidence that he's comfortable with, Vick will get what's coming to him.


Well if he keeps doing that he will end up like "White Shoes" johnson and living under a bridge.

And no I do not keep tabs on my cousins. In fact I have not talked to them in a few years, but then again i am not buying them a house worth$700k and letting them raise pitbulls in it and selling drugs out of it. Which then the Police could confiscate it. If I did buy a house and let relatives there you can bet dollars to donuts I would know what the heck is going on there and no that they are not destroying my investment.

Poindexter and Nifong went to the Marsha Clark school of criminal justice.

The Pencil Neck
05-24-2007, 04:21 PM
I think it's pretty self explanatory....

Yeah. I think so too but some people appear to have some sort of mental block and they're not allowing themselves to put the two words together and come up with a picture of what's going on in their minds. It's like... "I know what "rape" is and I know what a "stand" is but "rape stand"... huhwah?"

The Pencil Neck
05-24-2007, 04:25 PM
I agree with Texan Bill, its a reproductive device. i guess when you bread a horse and you lead them into a stall that is a rape room?


You don't normally have to strap the female horse down and muzzle it so it won't turn around and kill the male horse, do you?

Texan_Bill
05-24-2007, 04:27 PM
You don't normally have to strap the female horse down and muzzle it so it won't turn around and kill the male horse, do you?

You never met my ex... have you??

Mr teX
05-24-2007, 04:28 PM
Well he has been charged in like what 6 different counties or something like that. So, what I am asking... Is it wrong to presume he is guilty? Mike Vick and his brother have both gone off of the path. So why is it wrong to presume Vick guilty? Especially when he owns a house that produces dogs that are groomed to fight.

BTW, if the defense can claim that it was a house just for breeding, shouldn't there be a paper trail to show that? Wouldn't the IRS be involved if there isn't? I figure if he wasn't breeding for fighting, but for distribution, then they should have some type of way to show their income. That might be interesting...

That would be interesting..... but now that i think about it, after all this time, i think they would've found that by now. To answer you're 1st question, fundamentally it is, especially when we're supossed to be presumed innocent until proven guilty. It's basically guilt by association & frankly i'm surprised the DA hasn't tried to link Vick to drug charges b/c that's the reason the cops went to the house in the 1st place.

Double Barrel
05-24-2007, 04:33 PM
You never met my ex... have you??

Sounds like my ex....coincidence that we bring them up in a thread about fighting pit bulls? :hmmm:

Texan_Bill
05-24-2007, 04:34 PM
LMAO... Coincidence, I think not.........

Specnatz
05-24-2007, 04:37 PM
just funny.

Lucky
05-24-2007, 04:48 PM
Well if he keeps doing that he will end up like W"White Shoes" johnson and living under a bridge.
Huh? Are you referring to Billy "White Shoes" Johnson?

eriadoc
05-24-2007, 04:53 PM
So if you were breeding such a "manly" dog you would have many tread mills for all of them to get in shape before you sold them off???????? What about a "rape" stand? Would you put your little precious in one of those?

I think you missed the point of my post. Re-read my post with the context of the quote I pasted.

Specnatz
05-24-2007, 04:56 PM
Huh? Are you referring to Billy "White Shoes" Johnson?

Yes I am. I know Billy Johnson lost most of his money because of drugs, but the referrance was about him squandering his money.

The Pencil Neck
05-24-2007, 05:08 PM
You never met my ex... have you??

You're a horse? Shouldn't you change your name to Texan_Mr_Ed?



(Waiting for the obvious "hung like one" joke...)

Texan_Bill
05-24-2007, 05:20 PM
(Waiting for the obvious "hung like one" joke...)

LMAO.. that would have been too easy.

FirstTexansFan
05-24-2007, 05:30 PM
Cesar Millan, "the Dog Whisperer", advocates use of a treadmill to help exorcise your dogs, too.

So these dogs are possessed? Wouldn't a Priest be more appropriate? :)

(edited: Dangit...hitting self on forehead...READ THE ENTIRE THREAD BEFORE RESPONDING! Someone beat me to it! hehe)

Koolaid Time
05-24-2007, 07:13 PM
man, when I read "rape stand" I imagined them strapping male dogs in and reaming them a good one before a fight to make them more aggressive.

It would be in VERY poor taste to send one of these type of "stands" to the following:

David Carr
C/O Carolina Panthers
800 South Mint Street
Charlotte, NC 28202

Koolaid Time
05-24-2007, 07:17 PM
Yes I am. I know Billy Johnson lost most of his money because of drugs, but the referrance was about him squandering his money.

Billy White Shoes Johnson presently works in the Front Office of the Atlanta Falcons...

Specnatz
05-24-2007, 11:55 PM
Billy White Shoes Johnson presently works in the Front Office of the Atlanta Falcons...

Please do a search on him and learn his history.

Shaft75
05-25-2007, 11:28 AM
I think you missed the point of my post. Re-read my post with the context of the quote I pasted.

I ignored the your insinuation that dog treadmills are common. Dogs may use treadmills of their owners sometimes because of what the whisperer says, or for america's funniest home videos. However, treadmills designated for a group of pitbulls obviously points to dog fighting

real
05-25-2007, 11:35 AM
I ignored the your insinuation that dog treadmills are common. Dogs may use treadmills of their owners sometimes because of what the whisperer says, or for america's funniest home videos. However, treadmills designated for a group of pitbulls obviously points to dog fighting

No...It really doesn't....

Not defending Micke Vick or his cousin, because I believe they are guilty...

But if you are breeding a large amount of dogs wouldn't it be easier to excercise your dogs with 5 or 6 treadmills rather than trying to walk all of them? Treadmills being used for people who breed a large quantity of dogs is not uncommon at all...in fact I'd venture to say it's very common..

infantrycak
05-25-2007, 12:05 PM
hervoyel breeds dogs. Maybe he can say how common it is. One thing that is known is they are very common in fighting dog breeding because despite the size of a yard like Vick's, the dogs cannot be allowed out to run around and get their own exercise. I have been to many breeders of boxers and never seen a treadmill but I sure have seen a lot of frolicking dogs not attacking each other. I have also had many offers to have my boxers stud and it never involved a special fixture to get the female to comply.

Interesting development:

NFL Security has offered its help in the probe of illegal dogfighting at a property owned by Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick, an unidentified source close to the situation told The Atlanta Journal-Constitution.

Investigators have spoken to, or are in the process of contacting, persons who purport to have information regarding dogfighting at the property, the person told the AJC.

NFL Security personnel said they can't comment on the specifics of their involvement in the case. Greg Aiello, an NFL spokesman, told the AJC that it is routine protocol for NFL security to get involved in legal matters with players and other league personnel.

Investigators have not interviewed Vick, according to Gerald Poindexter, the Surry County Commonwealth's attorney, the prosecutor in the investigation.

"Not to my knowledge," Poindexter told the newspaper.

Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2882142&campaign=rss&source=NFLHeadlines)

infantrycak
05-25-2007, 02:25 PM
Let's play hot potato:

In response to accusations from investigators that Surry County, Virginia prosecutor Gerald Poindexter is dragging his feet regarding the Mike Vick dog-fighting probe, Poindexter has decided to refer the case to the Virginia Attorney General.

If/when that happens, Attorney General Bob McDonnell will make the call as to whether Vick or anyone else will be charged.

The development means that the matter won't die quietly on the desk of Poindexter, who has offered up a string of contradictory statements over the past few weeks regarding whether or not he believes that dog fighting occurred on the property that Vick owned in Surry County.

But the reality is that the case will now land in the lap of another politician who either hopes to keep the office he presently holds or who aspires to land a higher one. And this means that the decision as to whether a famous native son will face charges will be determined by a guy who has relied in the past -- and will rely in the future -- upon persuading a majority of registered voters in the Commonwealth to support him.

From profootballtalk.com.

Interesting--wonder if Pointdexter didn't want to be the prosecutor that brought charges or didn't want to be the prosecutor who didn't bring charges? Given Vick's popularity in VA--probably the former.

Koolaid Time
05-25-2007, 06:18 PM
Let's play hot potato:

From profootballtalk.com.

Interesting--wonder if Pointdexter didn't want to be the prosecutor that brought charges or didn't want to be the prosecutor who didn't bring charges? Given Vick's popularity in VA--probably the former.

Nifong punted to the North Carolina Attorney General as well.
Hmm... someone can check to see how much money Vick gave in political contributions last year...

Porky
05-25-2007, 06:33 PM
I just heard there are other NFL players involved, perhaps not in Vick's ring, but involved with dog fighting, and the investigation is widening with the NFL security team leading the way. Apparently, there are some other fairly big name NFL players involved in this "sport".

The NFL is fixin to have all kinds of egg all over its face.

Double Barrel
05-25-2007, 07:26 PM
The NFL is going to need all the 'good character' teams like the Texans that it can get. Maybe they'll give us more favors in the future (like another Super Bowl for Reliant Stadium!).

It's in the NFL's best interest to squash this story, too. So I have to wonder how independent NFL Security is going to be at the end of the day. It seems like a conflict of interest to have the investigative bodies be concerned about public image in this case.

Mr teX
05-26-2007, 10:20 AM
Let's play hot potato:



From profootballtalk.com.

Interesting--wonder if Pointdexter didn't want to be the prosecutor that brought charges or didn't want to be the prosecutor who didn't bring charges? Given Vick's popularity in VA--probably the former.


maybe he just feels that he won't get more concrete evidence that directly implicates Vick's involvement in the Dog fighting ring, so he's going to pass it on to someone else b/c he feels it's not a winning case.............

Koolaid Time
06-06-2007, 10:44 AM
Now the Prosecutor says that he hasn't seen any reports from the investigators......


Surry, Va. — While many await word on developments in the Michael Vick dogfighting investigation, the man who could prosecute the Falcons quarterback spent Monday morning sipping coffee in his spacious backyard, which abuts a cornfield on one side and a horizon of rural serenity on the other.

Commonwealth attorney Gerald Poindexter is in no rush to expedite the case involving this humble county's most famous property owner and part-time visitor. That's because he's received no hard information from investigators.

I don't have, to date, one investigative report," Poindexter said in an exclusive interview with the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. "I have nothing on my desk. I'm in touch with people who can assure me they can provide me the stuff. That's where we are."
WTF???? Someone sticking their head in the sand or something?

AJC has a good story on it today. AND someone broke into the home in question the other night:

The two-story, white brick house Vick recently put up for sale was burglarized between May 7 and May 18, according to a police report obtained by the AJC.

"I don't think it had anything to do with possible evidence," in the dogfighting investigation, Poindexter said. "I think it was some feuding over the spoils. Some people believe that in getting ready to sell the house, Vick had promised stuff to some family members and other people felt they deserved things."

Stolen were three plasma televisions (62", 42" and 32"), two floor buffers, a wet/dry vacuum, an upright washer and dryer and a leather sofa valued at $17,550 combined. The perpetrator(s) entered the home through a back, side window, according to the police report, which indicated the "alarm was not working." There has been no arrest.http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/falcons/stories/2007/06/04/0604vick.html?cxntnid=sprt060507e