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Texans_Chick
05-24-2007, 12:26 AM
Nobody knows what prevents hamstring pulls. Anybody who says they know for sure, can't prove it scientifically cuz there is no definitive answer.

That being said, being fast and having a history of hamstring problems are risk factors for future ones.

So with that, I give you this:

HT.com news story re: injured Texans veterans (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=3368)

Mathis on the mend: Its been nice to see Jerome Mathis out at OTAs the past few days. Mathis was hampered with a foot injury for most of the 2006 season and played in just a handful of games.

His foot is healed but Mathis says he still has some obstacles to conquer before hes back to 100 percent.

It will be a matter of time before I get back to full strength, Mathis said. My foot is fine. Im just working on a couple of hamstrings now, Ill say Im 90, 95 percent.

Though an OTA in May is not necessarily crucial to team success, Gary Kubiak thinks that the next few weeks are pretty important to Mathis.

Its critical because were at a point at his career where he had a great rookie season, but last year he dressed for two games for us I think and he struggled physically, Kubiak said.

He has been out here everyday, hes practiced everyday, he had some issues with tightness today, but our football team is very competitive right now and the good thing is that our football team is going to be tough to make and I think Jerome sees that going on and its important that hes out here.

Here's some food for thought and discussion:

1. The Texans were one of the teams that had the most players on IR last season. Do the Texans risk making injuries worse by working players through injuries at non-critical times of the year? For example, Mario injures toe, ends up with a foot problem. Was he being pushed too much. Running hard on a hamstring that isn't right isn't likely to make it better.

As an aside, I would like the real media to ask the Texans what they've done in response to the IR issues of last year. They said they were going to examine their practices to make sure that this wasn't just bad luck, and I am wondering what they have done.

2. Should the Kubiak comments be taken at face value? Just a question asked about a player and answered? Are his answers just the writing on the wall of an exit, or pushing a player he believes has tremendous potential and believes he need a fire lit under him? (the theory that a coach never yells at a player he figures can't play anyways).

TEXANS84
05-24-2007, 08:34 AM
They way Kubiak talks about Jerome makes me feel that he's not going to be on this team. I just get a strange vibe about it.

TK_Gamer
05-24-2007, 09:07 AM
I think that holds true across the boards. Anyone that doent give 110% is replaceable with Kubiak. He has talked repeatedly about how his goal is to have so much depth that making the team is difficult, and he seems to have followed thru on that. He added Okoye to give the questionable ethic TJ a wake-up. He added vetran depth at linebacker and running back, and also WR, all, I believe, to get the most out of who we have available. I really hope Mathis can make it. If he's healthy with his head in the game, he is one of the best KR in the league. I wish him luck.

otisbean
05-24-2007, 09:53 AM
Hamstring problems essentially are due to one of two things: 1. a lack of strength in their role as hip extensors 2. Improper tension control from the nervous system, ie the muslce has too much tension at a time when there isn't supposed to be any present. Imagine tensing a muscle then having someone forcfully try to strech it.

Once the hamstring is injured there is a build up of adhesions or scar tissue, this must be massaged out by a skilled therapist or it will continue to cause problems in the future. This is why once an athlete has a hammie issue they tend to linger. Mathis can easily be fixed if they get him to the right people.

Kaiser Toro
05-24-2007, 10:03 AM
On every team I have been around whether in sports, or in business for that matter, you will have folks who are injured and those who use a past injury as a crutch. Most often bad habits, such as milking an injury, are formed due to a lack of leadership in the locker room and a staff does not hold folks accountable.

Mathis got off last year, but this is his year to show he is professional not a talent as we have a staff that holds players accountable and we will have leadership in the locker room.

Carr in my opinion made it easy for many to slough off as he was the face of the franchise that was untouchable and did not have the passion or acumen to be a NFL leader. I can only imgaine the stinch of apathy that permeated the locker room, the film room, the sideline and the field.

Texans_Chick
05-24-2007, 11:08 AM
Hamstring problems essentially are due to one of two things: 1. a lack of strength in their role as hip extensors 2. Improper tension control from the nervous system, ie the muslce has too much tension at a time when there isn't supposed to be any present. Imagine tensing a muscle then having someone forcfully try to strech it.

Once the hamstring is injured there is a build up of adhesions or scar tissue, this must be massaged out by a skilled therapist or it will continue to cause problems in the future. This is why once an athlete has a hammie issue they tend to linger. Mathis can easily be fixed if they get him to the right people.

Do you have any scientific information about therapists fixing hamstring issues??? I've researched this, and the best scientific information says that there isn't anything out there to prevent repeated hamstring problems. Stretching, massage, etc.

Texans_Chick
05-24-2007, 11:13 AM
On every team I have been around whether in sports, or in business for that matter, you will have folks who are injured and those who use a past injury as a crutch. Most often bad habits, such as milking an injury, are formed due to a lack of leadership in the locker room and a staff does not hold folks accountable.

Mathis got off last year, but this is his year to show he is professional not a talent as we have a staff that holds players accountable and we will have leadership in the locker room.

Carr in my opinion made it easy for many to slough off as he was the face of the franchise that was untouchable and did not have the passion or acumen to be a NFL leader. I can only imgaine the stinch of apathy that permeated the locker room, the film room, the sideline and the field.


You are blaming Mathis' lingering hamstring problem on Carr???? I do think that there may be players who baby injuries, but as someone that tried to play football through a messed up hammy, it doesn't work well. It can make it worse. I got away with gimping my way through a season, but you can't do that on the NFL level as a guy who relies on speed.

My left hamstring still gives me problems when I do too much.

HOU-TEX
05-24-2007, 11:20 AM
They way Kubiak talks about Jerome makes me feel that he's not going to be on this team. I just get a strange vibe about it.

I agree with you. He's definetly in the bubble. He's a hammy strain away from making it an easy decision for Kubiak.:cowboy1:

TEXANSTAILGATER
05-24-2007, 11:23 AM
I think what he means is thumb sucking was made easy by Carr and his half arse ways...

The Pencil Neck
05-24-2007, 12:01 PM
Do you have any scientific information about therapists fixing hamstring issues??? I've researched this, and the best scientific information says that there isn't anything out there to prevent repeated hamstring problems. Stretching, massage, etc.

I'm not the guy you were talking to about this but let me through my $0.02 in.

There's always the structural element. Human beings are extremely variable in the way they're constructed. Muscle insertions/attachments are in different locations, people have more or less muscle insertions/attachments than other people, the attachments are stronger or weaker, etc. An example is the biceps brachii muscle. It's called the biceps because it's got two heads but it's not totally uncommon to see people with more heads than that (I've heard of up to 5). Structural differences like that can make certain athletes more prone to certain injuries and less prone to others.

As a personal note on this, I've got a very narrow tunnel in my AC joint which leads to chronic rotator cuff tears and the buildup of adhesions in my RC muscles. The only reason I can lift my arm over my head (and there have been many times I haven't been able to do that) is because of deep tissue massage/active release therapy. But it doesn't really prevent the same problem from occurring; if I go out and do some explosive movement with my arm, there will always be a chance of a tear. But by getting the deep tissue massage, it reduces the buildup of the adhesions, allowing my RC to move through the joint more cleanly, and that reduces the chance of a new tear.

But that's with the RC. The Hammies are a different animal. I'm sure there's the possibility of similar issues with the hamstrings but, since I've always had strong and healthy hammies, I haven't had to do the same sort of research for hamstrings that I have for the shoulder. :)

Kaiser Toro
05-24-2007, 12:28 PM
You are blaming Mathis' lingering hamstring problem on Carr???? I do think that there may be players who baby injuries, but as someone that tried to play football through a messed up hammy, it doesn't work well. It can make it worse. I got away with gimping my way through a season, but you can't do that on the NFL level as a guy who relies on speed.

My left hamstring still gives me problems when I do too much.

You always have impact people in any organization that effect the behavior, results and morale - some of them are negative impact people and some are positive impact people. When your leadership allows employees special concessions that bring no value to their cohorts you will inevitably have low morale which translates to low activity and productivity. Carr is gone and now they have no one in the locker room to point to in order deflect their own inabilites or lack of proper development.

Carr on the field was awful. Carr out of the locker room is a god send in my opinion. Mathis and his injury stand on their own with supplemental sources to ponder such as Kubiak's musings on Mathis, our acquisitions, our Strength and Conditioning Coach and our Doctor's.

As far as your hamstring goes I am sure it is painful but I doubt that it is necessary to do your job nor have you been a track star as Mathis has, so I am not quite clear on the analogy. If he is a speed merchant with not many other skills and does not take care of his assets, then he needs to be walked or get some leadership in that locker room to reset his aspirations on this team. I tend to think he has been reset and his value to the team will be held accountable based on his rest, training and development as a WR.

I do not blame Carr for his lingering injury, but definitely see Carr being gone good for the staff and team in developing young players.

Texans_Chick
05-24-2007, 03:41 PM
As far as your hamstring goes I am sure it is painful but I doubt that it is necessary to do your job nor have you been a track star as Mathis has, so I am not quite clear on the analogy. If he is a speed merchant with not many other skills and does not take care of his assets, then he needs to be walked or get some leadership in that locker room to reset his aspirations on this team. I tend to think he has been reset and his value to the team will be held accountable based on his rest, training and development as a WR.

Wasn't making an analogy. I'm certainly not a track star, but that actually puts me at lower risk of recurrent hamstring injuries. I'm just saying if you have a messed up hamstring, there is no sort of gut it out way to make it magically heal. Trying to run full speed with a messed up hamstring doesn't work--I've tried it with really poor results. BTW, if you look at the chart of offseason workouts in the weight room, Mathis has met all of his goals for each week.

You imply that he isn't taking care of his assets, but there's not much he can do to fix it. Running full speed at an OTA isn't going to improve his hamstring issues.

badboy
05-24-2007, 03:51 PM
Wasn't making an analogy. I'm certainly not a track star, but that actually puts me at lower risk of recurrent hamstring injuries. I'm just saying if you have a messed up hamstring, there is no sort of gut it out way to make it magically heal. Trying to run full speed with a messed up hamstring doesn't work--I've tried it with really poor results. BTW, if you look at the chart of offseason workouts in the weight room, Mathis has met all of his goals for each week.

You imply that he isn't taking care of his assets, but there's not much he can do to fix it. Running full speed at an OTA isn't going to improve his hamstring issues.He has approximately three month to heal.As a returner only, he will have fewer plays and even more time to heal. I think he can make the team, I hope he can contribute as a receiver but probably not to later in the year. His speed is enticing.

Kaiser Toro
05-24-2007, 04:04 PM
Wasn't making an analogy. I'm certainly not a track star, but that actually puts me at lower risk of recurrent hamstring injuries. I'm just saying if you have a messed up hamstring, there is no sort of gut it out way to make it magically heal. Trying to run full speed with a messed up hamstring doesn't work--I've tried it with really poor results. BTW, if you look at the chart of offseason workouts in the weight room, Mathis has met all of his goals for each week.

You imply that he isn't taking care of his assets, but there's not much he can do to fix it. Running full speed at an OTA isn't going to improve his hamstring issues.

My issue is not with Mathis this year, it is with Mathis and team last year. Not sure how much more clear I can be.

Lucky
05-24-2007, 04:36 PM
1. The Texans were one of the teams that had the most players on IR last season.
That seems to be the case every year. When will Dan Riley become accountable for that?

Texans_Chick
05-24-2007, 04:46 PM
That seems to be the case every year. When will Dan Riley become accountable for that?

Hard to say what the root causes of the IR are.

Is it the weight room. Is it the rehab staff? Is it the way the players work in OTAs and camps? Is it the lack of depth of our team?

In Mathis Hamstring Watch news, he has missed yesterday and today with tight hamstrings (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/sports/4833321.html).

Mathis was forced to the sidelines to watch as his hamstrings tightened up Wednesday and Thursday. Gary Kubiak said he is hopeful that four days of treatment over Memorial Day weekend will be enough to get Mathis back on the field when the team resumes practices Tuesday.

"He has to get in the training room and get healthy," Kubiak said. "He's got a heck of a battle on his hands to be a part of this football team and the only way he's going to be able to do that is to be healthy."

Mathis' hamstring problems date back to 2005 when he missed four games as a rookie. He was still able to contribute on special teams, where he averaged an impressive 28.6 yards per kick return and ran two back for touchdowns. Mathis went on to earn All Pro and Pro Bowl honors as a returner .

Last season, Mathis missed the first 11 games of the season because of foot surgery. After just a two-game stint back, Mathis started having nagging injuries again. Prior to the final two games, he was placed on the injured reserve because of sore hamstrings.

Specnatz
05-24-2007, 05:03 PM
Hard to say what the root causes of the IR are.

Is it the weight room. Is it the rehab staff? Is it the way the players work in OTAs and camps? Is it the lack of depth of our team?

In Mathis Hamstring Watch news, he has missed yesterday and today with tight hamstrings (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/sports/4833321.html).


Tick Tock .... Tick Tock

:ouch: :crutch:

Looks like Mathis maybe heading for the unemployment line.

FirstTexansFan
05-24-2007, 05:16 PM
I have to presume from Kubiaks comments that he feels Mathis is nursing this injury to forgo practicing. Maybe I'm wrong in my assumptions, but the negative vibes from Kubiak towards Mathis seem to continue to pile up. In my own personal experience, if I feel a person working for me isn't giving 100%, it doesn't take many times before that individual is looking for a new place of employment :)

Mr. White
05-24-2007, 05:23 PM
Isn't June 1st next Friday?
Anybody else see what I'm getting at?

Rex King
05-24-2007, 05:55 PM
June 1 cuts? Isn't that usually for guys with big cap numbers? Mathis' cap figure is pretty small. I don't know. I'm just asking.

I don't know, FirstTexansFan. My feeling is that he's just frustrated because he knows what kind of talent Mathis has and wanted to see what he could do in the passing game. If he didn't have that talent, I think he would have been gone a long time ago. Hamstrings happen and unfortunately are usually exacerbated by playing through them. I know what you mean, though. In my work, you have to show up even if you're sick, because it's nigh on impossible to find someone to cover for you.

The only thing I've heard Kubiak say regarding all of the players ending up on IR last season was something along the line of people not concentrating in pre-season leading to two of the injuries. So maybe they did look it at, but couldn't really come up with anything.

Rex King
05-24-2007, 06:10 PM
From today's article on HT.com:
Jacoby (Jones) has been extremely impressive as a returner and as a receiver hes kind of up and down right now but thats to be expected, Kubiak said. Hes been very impressive as a returner.

Personally, I'm pulling for Mathis - he provided practically the only good memories from the whole of the 05 season. BTW from that article, Harrison's still at Stanford. Unfortunately, I don't think he'll be with the team until mid-June as they're on a weird quarter system.

Texans_Chick
05-24-2007, 06:35 PM
From today's article on HT.com:
Jacoby (Jones) has been extremely impressive as a returner and as a receiver hes kind of up and down right now but thats to be expected, Kubiak said. Hes been very impressive as a returner.

Personally, I'm pulling for Mathis - he provided practically the only good memories from the whole of the 05 season. BTW from that article, Harrison's still at Stanford. Unfortunately, I don't think he'll be with the team until mid-June as they're on a weird quarter system.

As much as I am rooting for Jacoby Jones, he does not have the freaky breakaway speed that Jerome Mathis has. Also, I'm not sure how many successful tall returners there have been in the league.

I know Kubiak loves hard work guys, and Mathis has been in the doghouse some, but geez, Mathis broke open the Raiders game not even being 100%.

Bad numbers game at the receiver position, but that being said, the plugging in different guys returner experiment last season was UG - LY. Marciano seemed to do better when he had a designated ST guy.

(I'm not saying this to dis Kubiak or anything, I'm talking about this stuff as more of an area for discussion).

infantrycak
05-24-2007, 06:42 PM
This guy stole my thoughts:

The shelf life of a return man is not long. We're talking fresh produce, not canned goods. For every Brian Mitchell, who returned kicks and punts for 14 seasons, there are hundreds of others who lasted just a couple years. Teams may be trying to find the next Devin Hester, who as a rookie returned six kicks for touchdowns, including the postseason. But considering the turnover among return men, it's fair to wonder how quickly the Bears will be looking for their next Hester.

Some return men can't hack it. Others don't want to stick with it. Many more fall prey to a variety of factors that push them out of the position. Since 1970, only 12 players have led their conference more than once in yards per punt return. Only three have topped the AFC or NFC in kickoff return average multiple times.

Link (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AhX5DDAMbqqpVScIdBzhF_FDubYF?slug=starre turnmenusuallyaren&prov=tsn&type=lgns)

Love when Mathis is on form but you need either steady and average or above--JJ Moses or to continually look for the flash in the pan--Mathis. Hopefully he stays healthy and can flash for another year or two but this isn't one of those invest money and get a decade kind of gigs. Produce now or produce never.

Runner
05-24-2007, 06:49 PM
He has approximately three month to heal.

On top of the months he has already had to heal, and the months he had to heal before the two games he played last year. Or was it three?

I was all for patience with Mathis last year, but this looks chronic. In his two years with the team he has missed more games than he has played. If the Texans have enough good players in camp battling for a roster spot, an injured Mathis may find that he is the odd man out.

I'm not basing this on any rumors about his attitude or Kubiak's view of him. I just think if a player has a limited role - like return kick-offs - and he can't even be on the field to do that half the time, ne may not be worth the roster spot. He is cheap one more year; that may be the only thing that saves him this year if his health doesn't do a 100% turn around.

Texans_Chick
05-24-2007, 08:40 PM
This guy stole my thoughts:



Link (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AhX5DDAMbqqpVScIdBzhF_FDubYF?slug=starre turnmenusuallyaren&prov=tsn&type=lgns)

Love when Mathis is on form but you need either steady and average or above--JJ Moses or to continually look for the flash in the pan--Mathis. Hopefully he stays healthy and can flash for another year or two but this isn't one of those invest money and get a decade kind of gigs. Produce now or produce never.

Interesting link, found this quote food for thought:

Teams aren't just afraid that one of their top players will get pummeled by a coverage maniac; they also are worried about fatigue. Though Hall disputes this, his statistical decline the past few years could have been caused by his increased use as a receiver.

"You can get worn out playing your butt off on offense or defense," Bucs special teams coach Richard Bisaccia says. "To play at such a high speed at your position and then try to make a big play in special teams is tiring. These guys are indispensable, and you don't want to put them out there too much."

What is the better practice? Having a designated return man who is spectacular, or making a guy with a history of hamstring problems do both returns and receiving.

I don't know the answer to that, but I will say that our return game looked better when the Texans had a dedicated guy doing that. Horrible return play last year really put the team in a hole in a couple of games.

Marcus
05-24-2007, 08:57 PM
I've tried very hard to stay out of this thread, on account that any thread that's been created regarding Mathis, I've criticized him. I've criticized his attitude. I've criticized his heart. I've criticized his lack of a commitment to be a team player. I've criticized him for doing, or not doing, just the things that put him in the doghouse of a head coach.

But putting that all aside . . .

I have never, . . EVER . . heard of a player that pulled a hamstring the season before, go all the way through the off-season, and still not be 100% healed in May?????

I'm serious. Does anyone know of anybody else, in NFL history, who couldn't heal pulled hamstrings during the offseason, especially after being IR'd before the end of previous season?

I mean . . . WTF?, over?

Runner
05-24-2007, 10:04 PM
I don't know the answer to that, but I will say that our return game looked better when the Texans had a dedicated guy doing that. Horrible return play last year really put the team in a hole in a couple of games.

Mathis was that dedicated return guy last year :(

Runner
05-24-2007, 10:06 PM
I have never, . . EVER . . heard of a player that pulled a hamstring the season before, go all the way through the off-season, and still not be 100% healed in May?????


I hear you. It doesn't bode well for his playing a complete year.

Two threads I don't want see this year:

Mario Williams Foot Watch

Charles Spencer Leg Watch

TEXANRED
05-24-2007, 11:11 PM
2. Should the Kubiak comments be taken at face value? Just a question asked about a player and answered? Are his answers just the writing on the wall of an exit, or pushing a player he believes has tremendous potential and believes he need a fire lit under him? (the theory that a coach never yells at a player he figures can't play anyways).

I got two words for Mathis, Jacoby Jones. Jacoby even comes with an extra, he can catch too.

vtech9
05-24-2007, 11:40 PM
I've tried very hard to stay out of this thread, on account that any thread that's been created regarding Mathis, I've criticized him. I've criticized his attitude. I've criticized his heart. I've criticized his lack of a commitment to be a team player. I've criticized him for doing, or not doing, just the things that put him in the doghouse of a head coach.

But putting that all aside . . .

I have never, . . EVER . . heard of a player that pulled a hamstring the season before, go all the way through the off-season, and still not be 100% healed in May?????

I'm serious. Does anyone know of anybody else, in NFL history, who couldn't heal pulled hamstrings during the offseason, especially after being IR'd before the end of previous season?

I mean . . . WTF?, over?
hmmmm....maybe not a hamstring, but Joppru had to deal with a groin injury for a few years

Wolfiegrrl
05-25-2007, 12:01 AM
I'm not the guy you were talking to about this but let me through my $0.02 in.

There's always the structural element. Human beings are extremely variable in the way they're constructed. Muscle insertions/attachments are in different locations, people have more or less muscle insertions/attachments than other people, the attachments are stronger or weaker, etc. An example is the biceps brachii muscle. It's called the biceps because it's got two heads but it's not totally uncommon to see people with more heads than that (I've heard of up to 5). Structural differences like that can make certain athletes more prone to certain injuries and less prone to others.

As a personal note on this, I've got a very narrow tunnel in my AC joint which leads to chronic rotator cuff tears and the buildup of adhesions in my RC muscles. The only reason I can lift my arm over my head (and there have been many times I haven't been able to do that) is because of deep tissue massage/active release therapy. But it doesn't really prevent the same problem from occurring; if I go out and do some explosive movement with my arm, there will always be a chance of a tear. But by getting the deep tissue massage, it reduces the buildup of the adhesions, allowing my RC to move through the joint more cleanly, and that reduces the chance of a new tear.

But that's with the RC. The Hammies are a different animal. I'm sure there's the possibility of similar issues with the hamstrings but, since I've always had strong and healthy hammies, I haven't had to do the same sort of research for hamstrings that I have for the shoulder. :)

Ok, I have to put my .02 in on this one. I'm a massage therapist out here in the lovely Pacific Northwest and I also suffer from overly tight hamstrings. What a lot of people don't realize is how your body reacts to an injury.

Remember, we are symetrical beings. Two arms, two legs... that kind of thing. When and injury is suffered to the right hamstrings, the body will naturally move away from the injured area. This adds stress to the left side of the body. Not only that, but the muscles above, below and on the opposite side of the injury site are affected. Because of my overly tight hamstrings, I also suffer from low back spasms, knee pain, tight quad muscles, tight psoas muscles and cramping calf muscles if I don't take care of myself properly.

I warm up and stretch in the morning almost as soon as I get out of bed. I also work on increasing my flexibility by attending yoga classes three times a week. Not to mention the regular massages I get from the students that I teach massage. All of these things combined have helped me control the issue, but it will never truly go away.

The Pencil Neck
05-25-2007, 01:22 AM
Ok, I have to put my .02 in on this one. I'm a massage therapist out here in the lovely Pacific Northwest and I also suffer from overly tight hamstrings. What a lot of people don't realize is how your body reacts to an injury.

<snip>

I warm up and stretch in the morning almost as soon as I get out of bed. I also work on increasing my flexibility by attending yoga classes three times a week. Not to mention the regular massages I get from the students that I teach massage. All of these things combined have helped me control the issue, but it will never truly go away.

As a powerlifter, I just have to say... deep squats and deadlifts, baybee!!! :)

Seriously, nice, deep olympic training kinds of squats are incredible for the knees, the lower back, and the hammies.

For my psoas which I had issues with for awhile, I used to do this:
http://www.exrx.net/Stretches/HipFlexors/KneelingHipFlexor.html

Judging from your name, I'm going to assume that you're a fem and you might have an interest in lifting. If so, if you haven't seen Mistress Krista's site, you should really check it out. It's a great training site that has a lot of great info and is slanted to the feminine trainer:
http://www.stumptuous.com/cms/index.php

In particular...
http://www.stumptuous.com/cms/displayarticle.php?aid=52

Specnatz
05-25-2007, 02:13 AM
Judging from your name, I'm going to assume that you're a fem and you might have an interest in lifting. If so, if you haven't seen Mistress Krista's site, you should really check it out. It's a great training site that has a lot of great info and is slanted to the feminine trainer:
http://www.stumptuous.com/cms/index.php

In particular...
http://www.stumptuous.com/cms/displayarticle.php?aid=52

Ya know what is funny? someone going by the name pencil neck who stuff by someone called Mistress Krista.


:panic: :thud:

otisbean
05-25-2007, 08:56 AM
Do you have any scientific information about therapists fixing hamstring issues??? I've researched this, and the best scientific information says that there isn't anything out there to prevent repeated hamstring problems. Stretching, massage, etc.

First off, who would fund the research? There isn't a big massage therapist conglomerate that can spend billions on research like the drug companies. That is not meant to sound snotty, just an explanation as to why there is no research. I can give you some personal evidence, when I was a freshman in high school I pulled a portion of my hamstring tendon off the bone - diagnosed by x-ray a few years later. At the time my high school trainer diagnosed me with a pulled hammie. Three problem filled years later a buddy of mine suggested I go to see a chiro he knew. Long story short after about 6 weeks of the most painful massage treatments I had ever had my hammie was restored to 100% function and 16 years later I have not had one problem with it. One of the issues with massage is that there is a ton of variability between styles and therapist. Some are great, some suck. The trick is to find someone that knows what they are doing.

There is also a guy in Htown named Dr Tran that does lidocaine/B12 trigger point injections. These can work tremendously well as well. Anyone that has ever been to his office will tell you he has 100s of pics or professional athletes that have been to see him, including Evander Holyfield, Roger Clements, and too many NFL players to name. If I were in charge of the Texans rehab protocols I would have Tran's number on speed dial. I have personally found that getting a trigger point injections followed a few day later by some quality deep tissue massage provides the quickest relief to injured muscles. There are a ton of terrific Drs in the Houston area that are awesome soft tissue workers.

Now continuous hamstring injuries can come from a number of different causes such as an accumulation of scar tissue (which caused all of my problems by in HS), faulty bio-mechanics such as a forward pelvic tilt which puts too much stress on the hammies - this is common in many athletes, improper running technique such as over-striding when sprinting causing the foot to plantar flex (bad) vs dorsi flex (good) before foot contact thus over stressing the hamstring, ect... so any one or combination of these could be Mathis's problem.

As a side note I would not be suprised to see more of the Texans have muscle strains as their strength and conditioning coach uses a style of training that could potentially lead to injuries, but that is a conversation for another day.

BTW, for more info take a look at activereleasetechnique.com

real
05-25-2007, 09:25 AM
Interesting link, found this quote food for thought:



What is the better practice? Having a designated return man who is spectacular, or making a guy with a history of hamstring problems do both returns and receiving.

I don't know the answer to that, but I will say that our return game looked better when the Texans had a dedicated guy doing that. Horrible return play last year really put the team in a hole in a couple of games.

I think the answer is fairly simple....

If Mathis can stay healthy you only use him sparingly as a reciever. Let the man focus on making game changing returns.

The Pencil Neck
05-25-2007, 10:21 AM
Ya know what is funny? someone going by the name pencil neck who stuff by someone called Mistress Krista.


:panic: :thud:

:whip:

We were both regulars in some weightlifting newsgroups/forums a few years ago. There are long stories behind both of our names. :jumpinjack:

HOU-TEX
05-25-2007, 10:21 AM
When I was at SFA, a fellow teamate talked me into attending a Taekwondo class mt Soph. year. Although I can't prove it, but I think it did wonders for me. Even after going through a season of football practice, I could hardly walk after the first class from being so sore. All they had me do first the first couple months was stretch. After a while it was great. I took it again the next year as well.:cool:

Marcus
05-25-2007, 10:24 AM
I think the answer is fairly simple....

If Mathis can stay healthy you only use him sparingly as a reciever. Let the man focus on making game changing returns.

"If Mathis could stay healthy", I wouldn't have a problem at all if Kubiak decided to use him for kickoff returns only. But, as a head coach, you need some confidence that he can play at least the majority of the games before you can commit to a 'one task' player.

"He has to get in the training room and get healthy," Kubiak said. "He's got a heck of a battle on his hands to be a part of this football team and the only way he's going to be able to do that is to be healthy."

Translation: OK Jerome! So you have a chronic condition with your hammies. We all get that. Take it upon yourself to get the proper treatment, so that it doesn't prevent you from staying on the field. If you can't stay healthy during the OTAs, then how are going to stay healthy for training camp?

Sorry, I still think it's a question of commitment . . or a lack thereof.

real
05-25-2007, 10:41 AM
"If Mathis could stay healthy", I wouldn't have a problem at all if Kubiak decided to use him for kickoff returns only. But, as a head coach, you need some confidence that he can play at least the majority of the games before you can commit to a 'one task' player.



Translation: OK Jerome! So you have a chronic condition with your hammies. We all get that. Take it upon yourself to get the proper treatment, so that it doesn't prevent you from staying on the field. If you can't stay healthy during the OTAs, then how are going to stay healthy for training camp?


That's pretty much why I said "if"...

I don't think you're doing anything other than stating the obvious...

If Mathis can't stay on the practice field why would you go into the season expecting him to be your main return guy? I think it's fairly obvious that Mathis would not be counted on if that were the case..

My point was that if he can stay healthy through minicamp then you should go into the season using him almost exclusively for KR's in order to reduce the risk of injury and get the most out of him.....That was what I was getting at...

Marcus
05-25-2007, 11:56 AM
My point was that if he can stay healthy through minicamp then you should go into the season using him almost exclusively for KR's in order to reduce the risk of injury and get the most out of him.....That was what I was getting at...

That's fine. I hope he get's it together just as much as everyone else does. It'd be great if he could stay healthy enough to play.

But, at this point, I'm very pessimistic about it. Kubiak is wasting no opportunity to prepare us for what is coming. It will be an unpopular decision, but, at least, if that decision is made, it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

Goldensilence
05-25-2007, 12:32 PM
I think i'll just agree on the matter of wondering about the training staff. Was it just bad luck last year or was it the matter of how our athletes are trained and conditioned?

Far as Mathis is concerned. His contract isn't bad and he could come in at least as 4th or 5th receiver roster spot, keep someone on PS that could at least make one of those spots. In all honesty, though i know Kubiak would prefer a WR/ KR guy, i'm ok with having a spectacular KR guy taking up a slot on the roster.

As far as June 1st cuts. I'd hate to see Mathis cut then get healthy and land on a team we're going to face this year. If i was a gambling man i'd say he makes it past the first and second rounds of cuts.

real
05-25-2007, 12:34 PM
That's fine. I hope he get's it together just as much as everyone else does. It'd be great if he could stay healthy enough to play.

But, at this point, I'm very pessimistic about it. Kubiak is wasting no opportunity to prepare us for what is coming. It will be an unpopular decision, but, at least, if that decision is made, it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

Originally, I was very much so against cutting Mathis...

But at this point if Kubiak were to make that decision I'd understand...Wouldn't like it all that much, but I'd understand...

Texans_Chick
05-25-2007, 12:38 PM
Translation: OK Jerome! So you have a chronic condition with your hammies. We all get that. Take it upon yourself to get the proper treatment, so that it doesn't prevent you from staying on the field. If you can't stay healthy during the OTAs, then how are going to stay healthy for training camp?

Sorry, I still think it's a question of commitment . . or a lack thereof.

How do you know that he is not getting proper treatment for it? Especially when scientific folks can't agree on what prevents repeated hamstring problems for those who have risk factors for that.

At a minimum, he is meeting the off season conditioning goals the Texans are setting for him. Check out the graphic:

Texans FanHouse: Behind the Scenes at Reliant Stadium
(http://www.aolsportsblog.com/2007/05/21/behind-the-scenes-at-reliant-stadium)

Marcus
05-25-2007, 12:54 PM
At a minimum, he is meeting the off season conditioning goals the Texans are setting for him. Check out the graphic:

Steph, you need to tell me what exactly I should be focusing on with that link. I see Mathis' name on a list. So what?

My point is that if Mathis has a serious chronic condition with his hammies, you would think that he would recognize that it would take more than the 'minimum' effort needed to get himself ready to play. But from listening to Kubiak, it's apparent he's not doing that.

TK_Gamer
05-25-2007, 02:18 PM
All I've heard Kubiak say is Mathis has had some physical issues, he didnt expound upon them. this board does enough expounding on it's own I think lol.

otisbean
05-25-2007, 02:45 PM
How do you know that he is not getting proper treatment for it? Especially when scientific folks can't agree on what prevents repeated hamstring problems for those who have risk factors for that.

At a minimum, he is meeting the off season conditioning goals the Texans are setting for him. Check out the graphic:

Texans FanHouse: Behind the Scenes at Reliant Stadium
(http://www.aolsportsblog.com/2007/05/21/behind-the-scenes-at-reliant-stadium)

As I posted earlier, Hamstring injuries occur because a force is imposed on them that is too much too handle thus causing a tear in the muscle fiber. The body heals muscle injuries by laying down scar tissue or an adhesion to repair the area, the problem is that this is dense, tough, inflexible tissue. These adhesions inhibit the muscle from functioning optimally thus putting the muscle at risk for re-injury. If the adhesions are properly worked out the muscle can return to 100% function, but these can be a long, arduous and painful process. Honestly, some people can't handle the pain caused by deep tissue muscle work aimed at breaking up scar tissue.

Another issue with hamstring injuries deals with the nervous systems ability to turn a muscle on and off, but this may be out of the scope of a message board.

real
06-04-2007, 05:08 PM
Ok....Jerome Mathis is getting cut....Well Jerome you had a nice run...

Or should I say a couple nice runs....

I just heard on 790 that JM hurt his hamstring again 10 mins. into today's practice....

Kubiak commented on it, and IMHO JM will not be a texan this coming season if we can find someone just half way decent to return kicks...

The Pencil Neck
06-04-2007, 05:15 PM
Ok....Jerome Mathis is getting cut....Well Jerome you had a nice run...

Or should I say a couple nice runs....

I just heard on 790 that JM hurt his hamstring again 10 mins. into today's practice....

Kubiak commented on it, and IMHO JM will not be a texan this coming season if we can find someone just half way decent to return kicks...

Wow.

Just wow.

eriadoc
06-04-2007, 05:16 PM
For the first few years of his career, Donte Stallworth had severe hamstring issues, and Saints fans were constantly frustrated with him. He finally had a fully healthy year, logged 70 catches, and then went to the Eagles, where he burned us last year. It wouldn't surprise me to see Mathis work himself out of the hamstring injuries, but it takes time. As for his alleged attitude problems, I don't know what's going on there (if anything). As I said before though, there's something to be said for having the best <insert position here> on your team. Mathis was the best KR in the NFL two years ago, and reminded us why, if only for one game, last year. If the Texans are cutting Mathis because of injury, I will say right now it's a dumb move. He isn't really paid a lot. If it's his attitude or motivation, then I can understand it. It wouldn't surpride me to see Mathis come back to haunt us at some later date, either way.

The Pencil Neck
06-04-2007, 05:22 PM
For the first few years of his career, Donte Stallworth had severe hamstring issues, and Saints fans were constantly frustrated with him. He finally had a fully healthy year, logged 70 catches, and then went to the Eagles, where he burned us last year. It wouldn't surprise me to see Mathis work himself out of the hamstring injuries, but it takes time. As for his alleged attitude problems, I don't know what's going on there (if anything). As I said before though, there's something to be said for having the best <insert position here> on your team. Mathis was the best KR in the NFL two years ago, and reminded us why, if only for one game, last year. If the Texans are cutting Mathis because of injury, I will say right now it's a dumb move. He isn't really paid a lot. If it's his attitude or motivation, then I can understand it. It wouldn't surpride me to see Mathis come back to haunt us at some later date, either way.

Using the Donte Stallworth example, though, he killed us in that first game. But didn't he hurt his hamstrings in the 2nd or 3rd game and then spend most of the season injured with just a few appearances? Sure, he looked good in a few games but most of the season he was missing.

But I agree with you on Mathis. He's really cheap. I wouldn't cut him at least until it's time to cut the roster down to 53 and there's someone that we need more. But it would have to be a really good argument that we need that other guy more.

real
06-04-2007, 05:24 PM
For the first few years of his career, Donte Stallworth had severe hamstring issues, and Saints fans were constantly frustrated with him. He finally had a fully healthy year, logged 70 catches, and then went to the Eagles, where he burned us last year. It wouldn't surprise me to see Mathis work himself out of the hamstring injuries, but it takes time. As for his alleged attitude problems, I don't know what's going on there (if anything). As I said before though, there's something to be said for having the best <insert position here> on your team. Mathis was the best KR in the NFL two years ago, and reminded us why, if only for one game, last year. If the Texans are cutting Mathis because of injury, I will say right now it's a dumb move. He isn't really paid a lot. If it's his attitude or motivation, then I can understand it. It wouldn't surpride me to see Mathis come back to haunt us at some later date, either way.

I've been a supporter of Mathis because I know what he can do...

But you can't make the club in the tub...And if you're in the damn tub atleast keep your attitutde in check...

Supposedly his attitude isn't an issue anymore, but if he can't practice what would make a person think that he'd be able to play in a game ???

10 mins into practice ? C'mon...that's pathetic....

Double Barrel
06-04-2007, 05:26 PM
wow, I hate to hear one of our potential weapons is already suffering a physical breakdown. The battle of field position being such an important aspect of the game, I hope he can heal it and take care of business quickly.

the wonger need food
06-04-2007, 05:33 PM
So he misses all of the practices last week and hurts himself 10 minutes after getting back on the field today. There's no room on this roster for Mr. Glass.


It's just a shame that we couldn't get something for him. Then again.... have the Texans ever gotten anything for a player other than Drew Henson???

PapaL
06-04-2007, 05:38 PM
Its funny how when Bennie Joppru was always hurt and NEVER played this whole board wished him luck getting on the field and no one ever questioned his injuries. But our PROBOWL KR has hamstring issues and he's Mr. Glass? Please atleast the guy got on the field.

eriadoc
06-04-2007, 05:39 PM
Using the Donte Stallworth example, though, he killed us in that first game. But didn't he hurt his hamstrings in the 2nd or 3rd game and then spend most of the season injured with just a few appearances? Sure, he looked good in a few games but most of the season he was missing.

But I agree with you on Mathis. He's really cheap. I wouldn't cut him at least until it's time to cut the roster down to 53 and there's someone that we need more. But it would have to be a really good argument that we need that other guy more.

He went 38-725-5 last year, and he was down with injuries. Sprinters often battle hamstring problems. It just comes with the territory. NFL team should be well aware of it by now.

Yeah, the whole "can't make the club from the tub" phrase gets tossed around a lot, and it's an unfortunate fact of the NFL. So I get it. I'm just saying that Mathis has that special something that this team doesn't have much of. When we had JJ Moses, he was a reliable, totally unspectacular kick returner. I liked JJ a lot, but most folks wanted a game breaker there. Well, along came Mathis, and that's what we got. Cutting him now, on the cheap, seems sort of counterproductive. Then again, if I were Kubiak, I might be forced to do just that. Oh well .......

real
06-04-2007, 05:44 PM
Its funny how when Bennie Joppru was always hurt and NEVER played this whole board wished him luck getting on the field and no one ever questioned his injuries. But our PROBOWL KR has hamstring issues and he's Mr. Glass? Please atleast the guy got on the field.

People are always harder on the ones they expect the most out of...

That's just life.

I'm not saying Kubiak IS going to cut him, just stating my opinion after hearing Kubiak's comments on JM's 10 min. practice today....

I wish I could quote him exactly, but from the way he sounded it doesn't look to good for Mathis if he doesn't show something soon...

And that really sucks because he just makes us a more complete team..

disaacks3
06-04-2007, 05:50 PM
Its funny how when Bennie Joppru was always hurt and NEVER played this whole board wished him luck getting on the field and no one ever questioned his injuries. But our PROBOWL KR has hamstring issues and he's Mr. Glass? Please atleast the guy got on the field. True & I see your point. The difference is (at the time) we'd never had a legitimate TE who could both Catch AND Block. We'd already had JJ, who while not necesarily spectacular, WAS consistent and kept us out of the shadow of our own endzone.

MorKnolle
06-04-2007, 05:51 PM
So he misses all of the practices last week and hurts himself 10 minutes after getting back on the field today. There's no room on this roster for Mr. Glass.


It's just a shame that we couldn't get something for him. Then again.... have the Texans ever gotten anything for a player other than Drew Henson???

I heard that Mathis missed last week due to personal/family reasons of some sort and that after he initially tweaked his hammy this year (on the previous Thursday) that they expected him to be ready to go last week, but whatever issue with him came up and he missed the week. I guess he re-injured it today and will miss a little more time, hopefully in the 5-6 weeks before training camp starts up he'll be able to heal fully and will be ready to go, from what I've seen of him it looks and sounds like he's actually been putting in decent work this offseason (he looks like he's actually spent decent time in the weight room this spring and he seemed like he had been working on his WR skills some as well), so it would be a shame if he can't get back on the field and stick with the team this year.

As for other KR/PR, Jacoby Jones, Andre Davis, Jamar Fletcher and a few other guys that could likely be training camp bodies are all pretty capable of returning kicks if Mathis doesn't make the team.

PapaL
06-04-2007, 05:52 PM
People are always harder on the ones they expect the most out of...

That's just life.

I'm not saying Kubiak IS going to cut him, just stating my opinion after hearing Kubiak's comments on JM's 10 min. practice today....

I wish I could quote him exactly, but from the way he sounded it doesn't look to good for Mathis if he doesn't show something soon...

And that really sucks because he just makes us a more complete team..

Its ok to be tougher on him he has set the bar at a level that most in the NFL will make it to, ProBowl.

(Not directed at you xtruroyaltyx - speaking in general)

Its just so hypocritical of people around here. Not saying this is race related but the white guy has everyone's support and the black guy gets called names? There nothing we could have done to prevent Bennie's injuries nor Jerome's hamstring issues. Stop with the name calling.

Not like the guy wakes up in the morning and says "Hmmm, I think I'll tweak my hamstring and not practice." After all who really needs an NFL minimum salary?

eriadoc
06-04-2007, 05:56 PM
After all who really needs an NFL minimum salary?

I do.

And that really sucks because he just makes us a more complete team..

That's all I've really been trying to say.

PapaL
06-04-2007, 05:59 PM
True & I see your point. The difference is (at the time) we'd never had a legitimate TE who could both Catch AND Block. We'd already had JJ, who while not necesarily spectacular, WAS consistent and kept us out of the shadow of our own endzone.

This is true - we did suck at TE. JJ, with all his mediocre skills, was sadly the best we had - another example of settling for so so players. Jerome with his hamstring issues was one of the best in the league.

Like I said, before people misconstrue my words, I'm not trying to make this into a race issue.

The Pencil Neck
06-04-2007, 06:00 PM
Its ok to be tougher on him he has set the bar at a level that most in the NFL will make it to, ProBowl.

(Not directed at you xtruroyaltyx - speaking in general)

Its just so hypocritical of people around here. Not saying this is race related but the white guy has everyone's support and the black guy gets called names? There nothing we could have done to prevent Bennie's injuries nor Jerome's hamstring issues. Stop with the name calling.

Not like the guy wakes up in the morning and says "Hmmm, I think I'll tweak my hamstring and not practice." After all who really needs an NFL minimum salary?

Now, I wasn't on this board back in the Joppru days and I don't think I've every said anything about Mathis. I think the thing with Mathis... IF there is a thing... is his percieved attitude. Or at least, what his attitude used to be.

the wonger need food
06-04-2007, 06:03 PM
Its just so hypocritical of people around here. Not saying this is race related but the white guy has everyone's support and the black guy gets called names? There nothing we could have done to prevent Bennie's injuries nor Jerome's hamstring issues. Stop with the name calling.


I had a feeling that you were reaching for that race card...


I have been calling him Mr. Glass since his first season and will continue to do so if he can't stay healthy. If he was purple I would call him the same thing... even though he wouldn't look as much like the real Mr. Glass (Samuel L.) in Unbreakable.

MorKnolle
06-04-2007, 06:04 PM
Now, I wasn't on this board back in the Joppru days and I don't think I've every said anything about Mathis. I think the thing with Mathis... IF there is a thing... is his percieved attitude. Or at least, what his attitude used to be.

I think that is the main difference between MB members' opinions on Joppru vs. Mathis. Joppru from all accounts was a model citizen and a hard worker that just happened to tear his knee and groin up, whereas Mathis in the problem has been known to have questionable work ethic, somewhat of an attitude problem, and an off-field issue or two. People tend to not feel sorry for those types of guys.

Runner
06-04-2007, 06:06 PM
He has had six months to get better. In another 6 months he'll have missed another season. However, in 10 minutes of play he will have returned the opening kick-off - if we receive the opening kick. That's not much productiom from a roster spot. With Mathis it is more about fond memories than likelihood of future contributions, IMO.

It is the same injury that never gets better. Sounds chronic to me.

Roster spots should be valuable on this team; I hate to see them wasted. Yes he has a lot of potential, but the team has been patient a long time.

PapaL
06-04-2007, 06:21 PM
I had a feeling that you were reaching for that race card...


I have been calling him Mr. Glass since his first season and will continue to do so if he can't stay healthy. If he was purple I would call him the same thing... even though he wouldn't look as much like the real Mr. Glass (Samuel L.) in Unbreakable.

Tell us what's really eating away at you. I said it was not a race issue. I don't know, nor care, what race you are or claim to be - just like you don't care about mine.

We get rid of the 4th round pick who has produced atleast something in his 2 years while we carried the 2nd round pick who did zip zero? Even our current regime carried Bennie for awhile. Give Mathis his time is all I'm saying. How good of a player would we really be losing by keeping him on? Honestly....

Runner
06-04-2007, 06:32 PM
We get rid of the 4th round pick who has produced atleast something in his 2 years while we carried the 2nd round pick who did zip zero? Even our current regime carried Bennie for awhile. Give Mathis his time is all I'm saying.

I'd prefer the team stop doing the same things over and over if they want different results.

How good of a player would we really be losing by keeping him on? Honestly....

How important is the roster spot? It might be the difference between 9 and 10 o-lineman on the team. Is that important?

Exercise: Take into account they need to back up all positions and Flanagan and Salaam may not make it through the season. Cut two: Winston, Spencer, Salaam, Black, Pitts, Weary, Flanagan, McKinney, Hodgdon, Studdard, Frye. This list doesn't include all the roster players on the o-line.

PapaL
06-04-2007, 06:55 PM
How important is the roster spot? It might be the difference between 9 and 10 o-lineman on the team. Is that important?

Exercise: Take into account they need to back up all positions and Flanagan and Salaam may not make it through the season. Cut two: Winston, Spencer, Salaam, Black, Pitts, Weary, Flanagan, McKinney, Hodgdon, Studdard, Frye. This list doesn't include all the roster players on the o-line.

You make it seem like Mathis is taking on OL spot. He's taking on roster spot. There are tons of people all up and down the roster that will get cut. Come final cuts then we can talk. There's what 70-80 people on roster right now?

Runner
06-04-2007, 07:08 PM
You make it seem like Mathis is taking on OL spot. He's taking on roster spot. There are tons of people all up and down the roster that will get cut. Come final cuts then we can talk. There's what 70-80 people on roster right now?

The point is, every roster spot is important. There is a cost at some position if the Texans keep a guy on the roster who plays 5 kick-offs for the year. Given that he can't make 10 minutes of practice after having months off to heal, I'm not assuming he'll play in even half the games next year.

I chose o-line because last year they carried 9; many teams carry 10 as did the Texans until last year. When Spencer went down immediatly that hurt. It made Salaam the starter even when he was badly knicked up.

We could make a list of d-lineman, receivers, and running backs just as easily. At some position they would end up cutting a player capable of playing to keep Mathis. I don't think he's worth it at the rate of games he plays each year. Nothing against Mathis - I was all for keeping him last year when many argued against him post-motorcycle incident.

You are right - come final cuts we can talk. If Mathis is still not playing because his hammies are "tweaked" for another three months, I doubt he'll be on the final roster.

The Pencil Neck
06-04-2007, 07:13 PM
Judging from the latest ( http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=3377 ), Kubiak is kinda getting tired of him not being on the field. He doesn't like the fact that there's always a reason for Mathis not to be playing.

Im extremely concerned, Kubiak said. Jerome has been through a lot the last week or so, and were going to support him in his life and his family.

But, Im very concerned about his body and helping this football team right now. We have got to somehow get him to the point where he is on the football field like every other player. That is just honesty. I am telling him the same thing I am telling you. We have to figure out why there is always something and weve got to figure out a way to get the kid on the field full time.

TexansSeminole
06-04-2007, 07:13 PM
You make it seem like Mathis is taking on OL spot. He's taking on roster spot. There are tons of people all up and down the roster that will get cut. Come final cuts then we can talk. There's what 70-80 people on roster right now?

He is taking up a roster spot PERIOD. Whatever it may be. I agree with Runner that it is more about fond memories with him rather than the possibility of future production.

Another difference between Joppru and Mathis that hasn't been mentioned is that most Texans fans hadn't seen what Joppru could do. He was a 2nd round pick so most thought he could be a real good player if he could get on the field. Combine that with the fact that he had the reputation of a hard worker and people thought that he was just more unlucky, not so much injury prone as it seems Mathis is.

Joppru is off the team now and I am sure his injury problems were part of the reason for that.

Double Barrel
06-04-2007, 07:15 PM
Its funny how when Bennie Joppru was always hurt and NEVER played this whole board wished him luck getting on the field and no one ever questioned his injuries.

Actually, I recall a couple of people making posts calling out Joppru, so it wasn't 100% positive among fans. (I'm too lazy to research it, but I'm sure they're here in the archives.)

People are always harder on the ones they expect the most out of...

You don't say... :hmmm: no further comment!

Texans_Chick
06-04-2007, 07:15 PM
When we had JJ Moses, he was a reliable, totally unspectacular kick returner. I liked JJ a lot, but most folks wanted a game breaker there. Well, along came Mathis, and that's what we got. Cutting him now, on the cheap, seems sort of counterproductive. Then again, if I were Kubiak, I might be forced to do just that. Oh well .......

ST coach Joe Marciano wanted a faster returner than JJ. I saw him do a special teams presentation where he showed JJ returning kicks and getting caught from behind. He said that he liked JJ but he needed more breakaway speed. He was the one who lobbied for Mathis for the pick.

Like anyone injured on the team, I hope they figure out the best way to keep him healthy because a healthy Mathis is a asset to the team.

Runner
06-04-2007, 07:21 PM
a healthy Mathis is a asset to the team.

For the record, I'm 100% in agreement with this.

TexansSeminole
06-04-2007, 07:38 PM
For the record, I'm 100% in agreement with this.

I'd assume 95% of fans would too.

PapaL
06-04-2007, 08:22 PM
T
You are right - come final cuts we can talk. If Mathis is still not playing because his hammies are "tweaked" for another three months, I doubt he'll be on the final roster.

I totally agree with that. Its way to early to cut a guy who has small contract and tons of upside. No improvement + not playing + no practice = Unemployed.

PapaL
06-04-2007, 08:25 PM
He is taking up a roster spot PERIOD. Whatever it may be. I agree with Runner that it is more about fond memories with him rather than the possibility of future production.

Another difference between Joppru and Mathis that hasn't been mentioned is that most Texans fans hadn't seen what Joppru could do. He was a 2nd round pick so most thought he could be a real good player if he could get on the field. Combine that with the fact that he had the reputation of a hard worker and people thought that he was just more unlucky, not so much injury prone as it seems Mathis is.

Joppru is off the team now and I am sure his injury problems were part of the reason for that.

He is not taking up a roster spot. There have been ZERO roster moves made. This is not the final roster. Come that time then we can talk. Until then he's just taking up the trainers time.

real
06-04-2007, 08:40 PM
He is taking up a roster spot PERIOD. Whatever it may be. I agree with Runner that it is more about fond memories with him rather than the possibility of future production.

Another difference between Joppru and Mathis that hasn't been mentioned is that most Texans fans hadn't seen what Joppru could do. He was a 2nd round pick so most thought he could be a real good player if he could get on the field. Combine that with the fact that he had the reputation of a hard worker and people thought that he was just more unlucky, not so much injury prone as it seems Mathis is.

Joppru is off the team now and I am sure his injury problems were part of the reason for that.


Happy Birthday

Runner
06-04-2007, 09:47 PM
He is not taking up a roster spot. There have been ZERO roster moves made. This is not the final roster. Come that time then we can talk. Until then he's just taking up the trainers time.

I wasn't advocating cutting him now. That wouldn't be too bright. I was discussing the hypothetical situation of what to do if he is still recovering when final cuts are due. There is no way I'd keep him on the roster IF he hasn't "survived" significant training camp time and even ***this might be too much to wish for*** pre-season game action.

Tough cuts have to be made - I like watching him return kicks as much as other fans and even his teammates do, and I'd ratehr have him on the team. He doesn't get a free pass though.

vtech9
06-04-2007, 09:50 PM
I wasn't advocating cutting him now. That wouldn't be too bright. I was discussing the hypothetical situation of what to do if he is still recovering when final cuts are due. There is no way I'd keep him on the roster IF he hasn't "survived" significant training camp time and even ***this might be too much to wish for*** pre-season game action.

Tough cuts have to be made - I like watching him return kicks as much as other fans and even his teammates do, and I'd ratehr have him on the team. He doesn't get a free pass though.

I see him going on the PUP list if he is still hurt when the season starts.

Runner
06-04-2007, 09:53 PM
I see him going on the PUP list if he is still hurt when the season starts.

Could be - his salary would be insignificant and he wouldn't be taking that roster spot.

And who knows - maybe six more months of recovery would be all he needs to cure his ills.

TexansSeminole
06-05-2007, 02:12 AM
I'd suspect that if he misses any time due to injury in the pre-season he will not make the team.

Happy Birthday

Thanks.

Marcus
06-05-2007, 09:28 AM
From Lance Zierlein's blog (http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2007/06/post_12.html) . . .

What was the deal with Mathis? One radio station is reportedly saying this could be "career ending". Do they really mean that or is that an assessment of the end of Kubiak's patience?

Also, did Brandon Harrison make it in to this week's OTAs?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Harrison isn't set to graduate until the middle of June so he is going to miss OTAs. Mathis' injury isn't career ending... it's just a hamstring. However, it is career-threatening as it pertains to the Texans. I've been saying this since before the draft. Jerome Mathis is going to be a goner. NFL coaches don't put up with guys who don't play or practice.

Kaiser Toro
06-05-2007, 09:39 AM
From Lance Zierlein's blog (http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2007/06/post_12.html) . . .

What was the deal with Mathis? One radio station is reportedly saying this could be "career ending". Do they really mean that or is that an assessment of the end of Kubiak's patience?

Also, did Brandon Harrison make it in to this week's OTAs?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Harrison isn't set to graduate until the middle of June so he is going to miss OTAs. Mathis' injury isn't career ending... it's just a hamstring. However, it is career-threatening as it pertains to the Texans. I've been saying this since before the draft. Jerome Mathis is going to be a goner. NFL coaches don't put up with guys who don't play or practice.

from the blog
Rookie punter Eric Wilford from Florida consistently boomed the ball during special teams practice. The ball comes off of his foot much more cleanly and with much more "boom" than it does with Chad Stanley.

Harrison is graduating from one of the most prestigious universities in the world and is not at the top of the depth chart. Moreover, I would expect that the staff has him doing some work in Palo Alto to stay in shape to be ready for TC. Personally I have no problem with someone finishing up graduating.

As far as Mathis goes I will refer to Donna Summer's song "Last Dance."

Lucky
06-05-2007, 09:45 AM
Rookie punter Eric Wilford from FloridaLance, his name is Wilbur. And, Wilbur is also a kickoff specialist (Kris Brown's kickoffs are the worst).

MorKnolle
06-05-2007, 06:39 PM
I see him going on the PUP list if he is still hurt when the season starts.

I don't think he can go on the PUP list since he is healthy right now and passed his offseason physical. If I remember the rules correctly, you have to fail that initial physical in order to be placed on PUP (why Domanick Davis/Williams couldn't be placed on PUP last year and only Wong and Mathis were since they couldn't pass their initial physical). I could be wrong on that, but I think that's how things work, so Mathis would not be eligible for the PUP list.

As for Eric Wilbur, from what I've seen of him I'm not at all impressed, he seems to be one of the few guys they could have found that is actually worse than Stanley. When Wilbur gets a solid boot on the ball he can outkick Stanley, but I've seen a lot of inconsistency in the few times I've seen him and he mis-kicked a lot of balls, moreso than Stanley. Does anyone know if Stanley is married to Marciano's daughter or something, or is there some other underlying reason why they still haven't been able to find a suitable replacement, there have to be several free agent punters out there that are better than Stanley.

Texans_Chick
06-06-2007, 10:57 AM
From today's Chronic:

Kick returner's injury problems source of friction (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/4865547.html)

I'm reading the article and have a WTF moment:

While unable to practice, Mathis, 5-11 and 184 pounds, is rehabbing his knee and working to return to the field as soon as possible.

"Right now I am just rehabbing every day and doing everything that they tell me to do, like ice treatment and all kinds of different treatments," Mathis said. "I am working on my hamstring with some long stretching (and) individual manual workouts with the trainers."

Despite three years of hamstring problems, Mathis is confident he will be healthy when training camp begins July 27.


Rehabbing knee?????

There's no discussion of knee except that one little paragraph. Is that a mistake or is he also having knee problems?

Marcus
06-06-2007, 11:36 AM
:

Rehabbing knee?????

There's no discussion of knee except that one little paragraph. Is that a mistake or is he also having knee problems?

:rolleyes: I don't know what the deal is, either, and frankly . . who cares? It always seems to be something. But it's good to hear from Jerome himself that he knows that he's gone if he doesn't 'get right' by training camp.
"I am not concerned about training camp at all," Mathis said. "By then, we've gotten a month off, and I will be 100 percent and ready to go."

I will believe that when I see it.

The Pencil Neck
06-06-2007, 11:37 AM
From today's Chronic:

Kick returner's injury problems source of friction (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/4865547.html)

I'm reading the article and have a WTF moment:




Rehabbing knee?????

There's no discussion of knee except that one little paragraph. Is that a mistake or is he also having knee problems?

That's got to be a mistake. Someone who maybe thinks the hamstring is part of the knee or something. I mean, the hammy does cross the knee joint so it's not a totally unreasonable mistake.

Texans_Chick
06-06-2007, 12:09 PM
That's got to be a mistake. Someone who maybe thinks the hamstring is part of the knee or something. I mean, the hammy does cross the knee joint so it's not a totally unreasonable mistake.

I'm not familiar with the writer of that story. The knee thing seemed not to go with the rest of the story nor with any other reports made to date.

badboy
06-06-2007, 02:49 PM
I'm not familiar with the writer of that story. The knee thing seemed not to go with the rest of the story nor with any other reports made to date.I agree. I read that article at lunch and first thing I say, "Why does Kubes say this injured player has to practice? Does the doctor think JM is faking?" The article said Mathis met with coach for ten minutes and eached voiced their opinion. I would have thought it will not be an issue unless JM can't get on field during pre-season. I realize that others are on team that can return, but do any of them have a pro bowl behind them? Something just does not seem right if this article was factual.

Texans_Chick
06-06-2007, 02:56 PM
I agree. I read that article at lunch and first thing I say, "Why does Kubes say this injured player has to practice? Does the doctor think JM is faking?" The article said Mathis met with coach for ten minutes and eached voiced their opinion. I would have thought it will not be an issue unless JM can't get on field during pre-season. I realize that others are on team that can return, but do any of them have a pro bowl behind them? Something just does not seem right if this article was factual.

The tone of the article is a little different than what is on the Texans website. Also, the Texans haven't mention anything about his knee, so I'm thinking that might be a mistake.

I have an email into someone with the Chronic to find out.

Marcus
06-06-2007, 08:03 PM
What I want to know ... is what did he do in the off-season to address this hamstring issue. And how he thinks some problem that didn't heal in the 5-6 months he had after the season, will magically heal in the next 3-4 weeks?

Texans_Chick
06-07-2007, 10:33 AM
could we get anything for him in a trade? 5th round pick? anything? if so, i say pull the trigger on that one...it's not worth the hassle to keep him around

Sure, be in a hurry to get rid of him because the Texans have playmakers galore on the squad. You see, there's AJ and....

SheTexan
06-07-2007, 10:43 AM
What I want to know ... is what did he do in the off-season to address this hamstring issue. And how he thinks some problem that didn't heal in the 5-6 months he had after the season, will magically heal in the next 3-4 weeks?


Right on!!! Mathis made a hell of a lot of money being a bench warmer this past year. I wouldn't put it past him to try the same thing again. He's had more than enough time to get a hamstring injury healed, IF he is taking care of himself and taking the process seriously. Enough is enough!!! He's a whiner, cut him and move on!! JMO!

markn
06-07-2007, 11:03 AM
Right on!!! Mathis made a hell of a lot of money being a bench warmer this past year. I wouldn't put it past him to try the same thing again. He's had more than enough time to get a hamstring injury healed, IF he is taking care of himself and taking the process seriously. Enough is enough!!! He's a whiner, cut him and move on!! JMO!

Oridinarily I'd agree, however, Mathis quite clearly has the potential to be a game changer, so you have to think long and hard about trading someone who - when fit - is a huge threat from returns alone.

The Texans desperately need to shed this media tag of the NFL's worst decision makers. If Mathis is cut and reproduces pro-bowl form then look forward to yet another Bush / Young style media barrage of anti-Texans propaganda.

I certainly hope Kubiak and co don't jump the gun on Mathis because of bad luck with injuries or a suspect temperment, unless he's damaging the club then he's worth a roster spot, after all we're hardly bursting at the seams with playmakers.

Kaiser Toro
06-07-2007, 11:19 AM
Oridinarily I'd agree, however, Mathis quite clearly has the potential to be a game changer, so you have to think long and hard about trading someone who - when fit - is a huge threat from returns alone.

The Texans desperately need to shed this media tag of the NFL's worst decision makers. If Mathis is cut and reproduces pro-bowl form then look forward to yet another Bush / Young style media barrage of anti-Texans propaganda.

I certainly hope Kubiak and co don't jump the gun on Mathis because of bad luck with injuries or a suspect temperment, unless he's damaging the club then he's worth a roster spot, after all we're hardly bursting at the seams with playmakers.

I could care less what the media says, but do care how players and agents feel about us. Mathis' biggest asset is speed and he has an injury that effected his value over an extended period of time while occupying a roster spot on a team that needs to maximize productivity from every position. This is a business and Mathis' for whatever reason is not contributing to the needs of the business.

Double Barrel
06-07-2007, 11:24 AM
I could care less what the media says, but do care how players and agents feel about us.

The problem is that many players and agents could have their opinions of the Texans influenced by the media. They watch the same shows we do on ESPN and NFLN.

Texans_Chick
06-07-2007, 11:26 AM
Right on!!! Mathis made a hell of a lot of money being a bench warmer this past year. I wouldn't put it past him to try the same thing again. He's had more than enough time to get a hamstring injury healed, IF he is taking care of himself and taking the process seriously. Enough is enough!!! He's a whiner, cut him and move on!! JMO!

I'm sure he would rather be playing than not playing.

Last year he sat out most of the season recovering from a foot fracture that the Texans delayed in diagnosing. It is the type of foot fracture common in track athletes and is difficult to diagnose. Then he pushed to come back too fast and injured his hamstring. Even with his limited time on the field, he was key to the win against Oakland.

Hamstring injuries are not just gut it out injuries. If your hammy doesn't work right, you can't run. It's not a question of willing it to get better--the hamstring either ends up working or not working.

"He's had more than enough time to get a hamstring injury healed, IF he is taking care of himself and taking the process seriously."

We don't know what he has been doing to fix his hamstrings or what the Texans have him doing. Who is likely to have more expertise in fixing hamstrings: Mathis or the Texans? The Texans should. Reports are that he is doing everything he is supposed to from what the training staff has requested, so maybe they are missing out on something.

Hamstring problems can be chronic or they can go away and the maddening thing is that if you look on the medical literature, there is no one way to treat or prevent them.

The Yankees just canned their trainer because they didn't like the work he was doing relating to hamstrings, and that the Yankees had a bunch of hamstring injuries.

badboy
06-07-2007, 11:43 AM
How did Mathis earn a "lot of" money? http://www.houstonprofootball.com/cap.html $547,000 is not much money in NFL. Besides as TC said he was injured (foot) last season so he was not just sitting there. I am as frustrated as anyone, but what has Mathis actually done wrong in regards to hamstring? I just think a probowler should be allowed to go into last week or so of TC before being cut. If it can be established that the young man has not followed instructions by trainers/doctor then that is different. Remember this is the same medical team that ok'd Boselli & that worked out extremely well for the team.

Kaiser Toro
06-07-2007, 11:44 AM
The problem is that many players and agents could have their opinions of the Texans influenced by the media. They watch the same shows we do on ESPN and NFLN.

I do not discount that as the David Carr years are case in point. Thankfully we have a media savvy coach to control the message and provide a team environment to go along with the facilities and organization that people in the business are inquistive about.

HuttoKarl
06-07-2007, 11:49 AM
Why do we want to keep Mathis again?

He hasn't done anything in two years. He's basically become useless, unless giving trainers and team doctors something to do is considered.

Double Barrel
06-07-2007, 12:23 PM
I do not discount that as the David Carr years are case in point. Thankfully we have a media savvy coach to control the message and provide a team environment to go along with the facilities and organization that people in the business are inquistive about.

Indeed. Kubiak is the wildcard in all of this, simply because he's attained a level of respect as a player and coach, and has a nice way of shooting straight with the media and fans. Although some are quickly growing tired of his message ("Schaub has leadership skills" is case in point).

MorKnolle
06-07-2007, 10:51 PM
What I want to know ... is what did he do in the off-season to address this hamstring issue. And how he thinks some problem that didn't heal in the 5-6 months he had after the season, will magically heal in the next 3-4 weeks?

It's not so much a problem that didn't heal in the last 5-6 months, he made it thru 4-5 days of OTAs just fine and then tweaked his hammy again. It is probably an injury that will spring up throughout his career, but it's not like it was a constant injury that was bothering him for the last 6 months that he expects to suddenyl heal.

could we get anything for him in a trade? 5th round pick? anything? if so, i say pull the trigger on that one...it's not worth the hassle to keep him around

Who is going to give up a 5th round pick for a KR specialist with no proven WR skills to this point and with injury concerns? I don't see how we could get anything for him.

vtech9
06-08-2007, 04:35 PM
It's not so much a problem that didn't heal in the last 5-6 months, he made it thru 4-5 days of OTAs just fine and then tweaked his hammy again. It is probably an injury that will spring up throughout his career, but it's not like it was a constant injury that was bothering him for the last 6 months that he expects to suddenyl heal.



Who is going to give up a 5th round pick for a KR specialist with no proven WR skills to this point and with injury concerns? I don't see how we could get anything for him.

You know, I've been wondering if he might have an injury similar to Joppru's or like someone else said, has scar tissue build-up that needs to be removed. Is it serious enough that he should have surgery? It just seems like if he has a recurring problem, maybe there is more wrong than we know.

I recently read an article about a marathon runner that had originally injured his ankle, and due to his compensating for that injury, he ended up having recurrent hamstring issues. What was odd about it was that even though stretching was a treatment, it was predominately used for the non-injured side. They stretched the non-injured side to help even out the runners gait.

The Pencil Neck
06-08-2007, 04:56 PM
You know, I've been wondering if he might have an injury similar to Joppru's or like someone else said, has scar tissue build-up that needs to be removed. Is it serious enough that he should have surgery? It just seems like if he has a recurring problem, maybe there is more wrong than we know.

I recently read an article about a marathon runner that had originally injured his ankle, and due to his compensating for that injury, he ended up having recurrent hamstring issues. What was odd about it was that even though stretching was a treatment, it was predominately used for the non-injured side. They stretched the non-injured side to help even out the runners gait.


It's very common to have an injury and then that start a chain of other related injuries as you try to compensate for the original problem. Sometimes you'll have a recurring injury in one part of the body and then when you find and fix a problem somewhere else (like a strength imbalance or tear in a stabilizing muscle) and then the recurring injury clears up.

But there's a fine line between peak performance and an injury. For normal trainers, if you work at 50 percent of your max, you'll make progress. (And even then, you can still strain a muscle with light weights.) For an elite athlete, you have to work at over 80 percent of your max. When you're pushing to the limit like that, you're always in danger of things breaking down. For a speed guy like Mathis, the hammies are always going to be on the edge.

Runner
06-08-2007, 05:30 PM
It's not so much a problem that didn't heal in the last 5-6 months, he made it thru 4-5 days of OTAs just fine and then tweaked his hammy again.

That may be worse news than that that he never recovered in the first place. He's got a lot of talent; it will be a shame if his body just can't hold up.

MorKnolle
06-08-2007, 05:31 PM
You know, I've been wondering if he might have an injury similar to Joppru's or like someone else said, has scar tissue build-up that needs to be removed. Is it serious enough that he should have surgery? It just seems like if he has a recurring problem, maybe there is more wrong than we know.

I recently read an article about a marathon runner that had originally injured his ankle, and due to his compensating for that injury, he ended up having recurrent hamstring issues. What was odd about it was that even though stretching was a treatment, it was predominately used for the non-injured side. They stretched the non-injured side to help even out the runners gait.

I'm not aware of pulling a hamstring leading to scar tissue build-up that would require surgery. However, it definitely could lead to recurring problems down the road. Other than his broken foot that he suffered at the Pro Bowl after his rookie season, I'm not aware of him having any additional past injury that could lead to his hamstring problems, and he had hamstring problems his rookie year before he broke that foot.

vtech9
06-08-2007, 06:03 PM
I'm not aware of pulling a hamstring leading to scar tissue build-up that would require surgery. However, it definitely could lead to recurring problems down the road. Other than his broken foot that he suffered at the Pro Bowl after his rookie season, I'm not aware of him having any additional past injury that could lead to his hamstring problems, and he had hamstring problems his rookie year before he broke that foot.

if I remember correctly, he had the foot problems lng before it was diagnosed.