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Honoring Earl 34
05-22-2007, 10:46 PM
Their talking about Schaub .

TEXANS84
05-22-2007, 10:50 PM
Their talking about Schaub .

Post transcript as best as you can.

June 19th can't get here fast enough.

aj.
05-22-2007, 10:59 PM
They showed this earlier in the evening too.

Basically the takeaways were 1) Carr can't run the bootleg out of the zone stretch, 2) Carr can't read defenses and here's an example (a direct quote of Baldinger as he shows film of Carr not able to see two guys open before going fetal), 3) Schaub can read defenses and 4) Schaub is able to make quick reads.

Some of the most brutal analysis I've seen of Carr yet. A must see for Texans o-line haters everywhere.

Note to Caddy and Hulk: This was all per Baldinger not me.

TEXANS84
05-22-2007, 11:03 PM
They showed this earlier in the evening too.

Basically the takeaways were 1) Carr can't run the bootleg out of the zone stretch, 2) Carr can't read defenses and here's an example (a direct quote of Baldinger as he shows film of Carr not able to see two guys open then going fetal), 3) Schaub can read defenses and 4) Schaub is able to make quick reads.

Some of the most brutal analysis I've seen of Carr yet. A must see for Texans o-line haters everywhere.

Note to Caddy and Hulk: This was all per Baldinger not me.

I'm assuming this was from the Titans game?

LOL at the caddy/hulk reference.

Honoring Earl 34
05-22-2007, 11:03 PM
They repeat their shows a lot so it would be well worth seeing it ... I think it was total NFL access .

Brian Baldinger said Schaub can read defenses ... they showed some footage . He sees the middle of the field completes a pass between defenders . They had a play where BB said ... watch Schaub he waits until the defenders turn their heads and takes off running ... he's not a stiff like some had said . They showed a play where Schaub threw deep but I was typing . BB said the Falcons did not change their gameplan for Schaub .

He then said Carr struggled reading defenses . They showed Carr with two guys open in the middle of the field and did'nt see them . He said you have to throw to get the lead and run to keep it and that the Texans need to do better at going deep ... duh .

Rod Woodson and Lombardi ex Raider guy ... said Carr needs time to regroup and get his eye level up ... stop looking for the rush . They said he got in the bad habit of just looking for AJ .

They also said Carr was a turnover waiting to happen .

aj.
05-22-2007, 11:04 PM
I'm assuming this was from the Titans game?

.

Raiders

TEXANS84
05-22-2007, 11:07 PM
Raiders

Even worse.

Who was running the middle routes? I'm assuming Moulds and Walters? Daniels?

Honoring Earl 34
05-22-2007, 11:09 PM
Even worse.

Who was running the middle routes? I'm assuming Moulds and Walters? Daniels?

I'll tell you I don't know who it was but they were open and he did'nt throw it .

ArlingtonTexan
05-23-2007, 12:05 AM
They showed this earlier in the evening too.

Basically the takeaways were 1) Carr can't run the bootleg out of the zone stretch, 2) Carr can't read defenses and here's an example (a direct quote of Baldinger as he shows film of Carr not able to see two guys open before going fetal), 3) Schaub can read defenses and 4) Schaub is able to make quick reads.

Some of the most brutal analysis I've seen of Carr yet. A must see for Texans o-line haters everywhere.

Note to Caddy and Hulk: This was all per Baldinger not me.

this was one of the few analysis of the Texans and Carr that did not just blindly go the OL sucks and Carr is the innocent victim. Lombardi also addressed the high completion percentage. he stated carr stared down his target and did not make plays down the field. Basically, this segment highlighted what many "Carr-haters" have pointed out in some cases for 3 or more years.

I am not sold the Schaub is the "answer" but I am convinced that the Texans may will be more capable of running an offense that at least looks like the rest of the NFL. I am certain that many fans don't realize how much the Texans dumbed everything down over the last several years. In other words, three steps and throw was not solely because of the OL blocking.

Runner
05-23-2007, 12:13 AM
I am certain that many fans don't realize how much the Texans dumbed everything down over the last several years. In other words, three steps and throw was not solely because of the OL blocking.

Interesting. Following through, had the Texans had a better QB:

The Texans were set with Wand - Pitts - McKinney - Weigert - Wade and we (coaches and fans) didn't know it.

------They wouldn't have taken Wade's cap hit.

------No Victor Riley!

The offense should have been better at that point and the line could have played 2-3 seasons together and rocked.

Gaffney should have had a lot more catches and been a keeper.

The Texans actually had a good offense, less one player, so Casserly was doing better than he was given credit for.

==========================

If as much was on Carr as is thought now, the Carr experiment certainly damaged a lot of careers and reputations.

Vinny
05-23-2007, 12:17 AM
this was one of the few analysis of the Texans and Carr that did not just blindly go the OL sucks and Carr is the innocent victim. Lombardi also addressed the high completion percentage. he stated carr stared down his target and did not make plays down the field. Basically, this segment highlighted what many "Carr-haters" have pointed out in some cases for 3 or more years.

I am not sold the Schaub is the "answer" but I am convinced that the Texans may will be more capable of running an offense that at least looks like the rest of the NFL. I am certain that many fans don't realize how much the Texans dumbed everything down over the last several years. In other words, three steps and throw was not solely because of the OL blocking.
:heart: hmm, sounds familiar...I wish I thought of this

disaacks3
05-23-2007, 12:55 AM
They showed this earlier in the evening too.

Basically the takeaways were 1) Carr can't run the bootleg out of the zone stretch, 2) Carr can't read defenses and here's an example (a direct quote of Baldinger as he shows film of Carr not able to see two guys open before going fetal), 3) Schaub can read defenses and 4) Schaub is able to make quick reads.

Some of the most brutal analysis I've seen of Carr yet. A must see for Texans o-line haters everywhere.

Note to Caddy and Hulk: This was all per Baldinger not me. Definitely NOT a "good" example of DC scrambling, that's for sure. I'm not sure I'd point to it as any kind of "glowing example" of a GOOD O-Line either...at least from a Pass-Protection standpoint.

I really hope they're right. I hope Schaub IS the answer, or at least a noticeable improvement.

kiwitexansfan
05-23-2007, 02:19 AM
Interesting. Following through, had the Texans had a better QB:

The Texans were set with Wand - Pitts - McKinney - Weigert - Wade and we (coaches and fans) didn't know it.

------They wouldn't have taken Wade's cap hit.

------No Victor Riley!

The offense should have been better at that point and the line could have played 2-3 seasons together and rocked.

Gaffney should have had a lot more catches and been a keeper.

The Texans actually had a good offense, less one player, so Casserly was doing better than he was given credit for.

==========================

If as much was on Carr as is thought now, the Carr experiment certainly damaged a lot of careers and reputations.

Lets not go too far the other way, our O-Line wasn't good.

Of that line group I think only Pitts has above average skills, Wade wouldn't fit in a ZBS scheme and McKinney is fading fast.

I think the group we have now, especially with a fit Spencer is a far better group to grow and develop.

aj.
05-23-2007, 03:23 AM
Definitely NOT a "good" example of DC scrambling, that's for sure. I'm not sure I'd point to it as any kind of "glowing example" of a GOOD O-Line either...at least from a Pass-Protection standpoint.

.

That was Baldinger's point. In the highlighted play, the QB didn't have to pull it down and scramble. There were two receivers open in his field of view and Baldinger was highlighting how the QB should have pulled the trigger on either, but didn't, because he obviously didn't anticipate or see either opportunity before giving up on the play even though he had a time window, albeit brief, to get rid of it.

A few of the comparative Schaub highlights showed him recognizing opportunities downfield - also while under heavy pressure - and delivering the ball to the target. Again, the ability and inability to quickly read and recognize was the point - or at least I thought it was...

I could easily construct a few highlights to argue how much the o-line sucks too. But in this case, for whatever reason, NFL-N chose to analyze QB decision making instead of just piling on the o-line like sheep as usual.

Corrosion
05-23-2007, 04:43 AM
I could easily construct a few highlights to argue how much the o-line sucks too. But in this case, for whatever reason, NFL-N chose to analyze QB decision making instead of just piling on the o-line like sheep as usual.

You could construct a "Highlight reel" of every O-line in the league looking poor . The difference between a succuessful play and a failed one in this league is minute .

Im not sold on the fact Shaub is the answer to the Texans QB issues but he cant be any worse than Carr was .

Runner
05-23-2007, 06:36 AM
Lets not go too far the other way, our O-Line wasn't good.


I know, I just wanted to fit the "it was all Carr" euphoria into the bigger picture.

In my posts in 2004, I pointed out Carr ran into sacks and the o-line had scheme problems to go along with the o-line personnel issues. I'm certainly not an "it was all the o-line" guy. Back then I would have rated the sack problem causes as:

1) Coaching/schemes - by far the biggest problem
2) O-line personnel
3) Carr
4) RBs and TEs

In hindsight I would put Carr ahead of the o-line, but I still wouldn't absolve them of all responsibility.

==============================

With today's team:

I think the coaching has improved, but they still need to get the schemes to match the personnel. I'm confident this will happen.

Carr is gone, and Schaub needs to prove he is a big part of the answer.

The o-line personnel looks deeper, but they lack a couple of quality starters at center and left tackle.

We shold have better blocking from our backs and more complete tight ends.

======================

All in all, the passing game should improve but there are still people (players and coaches) who need to live up to expectations and holes to fill. I don't expect a top 10 pasing game, not even a top 15.

Kaiser Toro
05-23-2007, 07:23 AM
Good to see that media outlets are actually starting to watch/review our games rather than just regurgitate the assumption that Carr walked on water.

I will miss the finesse of the Fresno Fall on Sundays. :rolleyes:

Malloy
05-23-2007, 07:33 AM
I will miss the finesse of the Fresno Fall on Sundays. :rolleyes:

Get me drunk enough and I'll re-enact it for you every saturday evening :)

White bear down!

aj.
05-23-2007, 07:34 AM
I know, I just wanted to fit the "it was all Carr" euphoria into the bigger picture.

.

Who said it was all Carr?

This piece highlighted Carr's troubles reading defenses and especially making quick reads. It was surprising in that it was one of the first I've seen to focus on the aspect of his game that many on the various mb's had been criticizing for years. It was presented in the context that it wasn't all the o-lines fault (for a change).

Personally, I think our o-line improved the minute Ocho Viejo walked out the door.

infantrycak
05-23-2007, 09:52 AM
McKinney is fading fast.

Where does that come from?--particularly when the guy in front of him is the one who is fading if anyone is. McKinney was an upgrade when he came in last year. Interesting camp battle.

real
05-23-2007, 10:05 AM
Definitely NOT a "good" example of DC scrambling, that's for sure.


LOL @ scramble....

This is another misconception....

David didn't scramble, he ran....

Scrambling is what you do when you avoid the rush to buy time in hopes of finding a reciever down field....David NEVR did that...He could barely find open recievers from the pocket let alone with someone chasing him...He just doesn't and probably never will have that capability (except maybe in practice where it REALLY counts)...If he took off he was either running up field or out of bounds....the guy was awful....

real
05-23-2007, 10:14 AM
That was Baldinger's point. In the highlighted play, the QB didn't have to pull it down and scramble. There were two receivers open in his field of view and Baldinger was highlighting how the QB should have pulled the trigger on either, but didn't, because he obviously didn't anticipate or see either opportunity before giving up on the play even though he had a time window, albeit brief, to get rid of it.

A few of the comparative Schaub highlights showed him recognizing opportunities downfield - also while under heavy pressure - and delivering the ball to the target. Again, the ability and inability to quickly read and recognize was the point - or at least I thought it was...

I could easily construct a few highlights to argue how much the o-line sucks too. But in this case, for whatever reason, NFL-N chose to analyze QB decision making instead of just piling on the o-line like sheep as usual.

I wish people would actually watch some of these other QB's and their O-lines...

Peyton Manning is pressured A LOT...I've seen MANY times that he has been hit, yet still delivered the football....

I've yet to see Carr stand tall in the pocket and throw the ball right before or as he's getting hit...

The Pencil Neck
05-23-2007, 10:17 AM
I wish people would actually watch some of these other QB's and their O-lines...

Peyton Manning is pressured A LOT...I've seen MANY times that he has been hit, yet still delivered the football....

I've yet to see Carr stand tall in the pocket and throw the ball right before or as he's getting hit...

One of the clips that they show of Schaub, he reads the blitz and pulls the trigger on a well-thrown ball with the LB right in his face.

HOU-TEX
05-23-2007, 10:26 AM
Where does that come from?--particularly when the guy in front of him is the one who is fading if anyone is. McKinney was an upgrade when he came in last year. Interesting camp battle.

I haven't seen Flannigan this off-season, but I really don't see much of a competition between the two. I thinks it should be Mckinneys job to lose. Having said that, I wouldn't mind if the rookie stepped up in a big way to win the spot.:cool:

Porky
05-23-2007, 12:01 PM
I watch Total Access quite often but missed it yesterday. Rats! On Saturday, they usually have a weekly recap show. I will record that and hope for the best. Thanks for the analysis guys. In general, I would tend to agree with the NFLN on this one.

It's kind of amazing to see some real analysis, instead of all of these guys just regurgitating what the next talking head says. ESPN and the rest of these clueless talking heads should take a hint from the NFLN. :devilpig:

Vinny
05-23-2007, 12:08 PM
It's kind of amazing to see some real analysis, instead of all of these guys just regurgitating what the next talking head says. that's why it's nice to find it here....first hand, before the masses get served their slice of 'real analysis'. :pirate:

aj.
05-23-2007, 12:44 PM
I wish people would actually watch some of these other QB's and their O-lines...

...

Exactly what people are you talking about? (since you quoted me).

real
05-23-2007, 12:48 PM
Exactly what people are you talking about? (since you quoted me).

Not you...

I was just adding on to what you were saying...:user:

Shaft75
05-23-2007, 12:53 PM
I just saw this piece during my lunch break and I want to give kudos for Baldinger for letting everyone know what our fans saw time and time again. I agreed with their analysis more than any that I have heard about our qb situation. Man was it great to hear a national media guy say that!:doot:

ArlingtonTexan
05-23-2007, 01:03 PM
Interesting. Following through, had the Texans had a better QB:

The Texans were set with Wand - Pitts - McKinney - Weigert - Wade and we (coaches and fans) didn't know it.

------They wouldn't have taken Wade's cap hit.

------No Victor Riley!

The offense should have been better at that point and the line could have played 2-3 seasons together and rocked.

Gaffney should have had a lot more catches and been a keeper.

The Texans actually had a good offense, less one player, so Casserly was doing better than he was given credit for.

==========================

If as much was on Carr as is thought now, the Carr experiment certainly damaged a lot of careers and reputations.


Oh c'mon Runner you should know by now that I am far from an either/or thinker. The Texans have been close to the bottom in the NFL in offense for 5 years and a team does not accomplish that because only one piece is bad. A below average OL mixed with an average @best QB whose weakness is reading defenses and pocket awareness created the "perfect storm" called the Texans pass offense. Locally in Dallas, Troy A. once said (paraphrase) that if a QB is getting sacked that often it is part of his job to figure how not get hit that often.

beerlover
05-23-2007, 02:04 PM
I finally saw the piece today & despite being heavily one sided- for Schaub/against David, the film does not lie. I was very impressed with Matt Schaubs ability to move his feet in the pocket, quick progressions & excellent, reactive decisions. Makes me wonder if Rick Smith was infold a little earlier last year :lightbulb: one, would they have extended david, two would they have gone after brees then drafted Bush like N.O. did or three would they have drafted Vince Young? as it turned out we now should have one heck of a defensive line & possibly a real franchise QB anyway :doot:

Double Barrel
05-23-2007, 03:32 PM
Lets not go too far the other way, our O-Line wasn't good.

I'll fix it for you:

Lets not go too far the other way, our O-Line wasn't good when David Carr was playing QB behind them.

They were good enough for DD to almost get three 1,000 yard rushing seasons in a row. While pass blocking and run blocking are two different beasts, I refuse to bow down to the mentality that Carr is anything but a below average QB, making everyone around him look worse than they really are. Obviously, people not brainwashed by ESPN's 'experts' are inclined to agree.

I'm not saying Schaub is the 'savior', but compared to Carr he is.

Vinny
05-23-2007, 03:42 PM
I finally saw the piece today & despite being heavily one sided- for Schaub/against David, the film does not lie. I was very impressed with Matt Schaubs ability to move his feet in the pocket, quick progressions & excellent, reactive decisions. Makes me wonder if Rick Smith was infold a little earlier last year :lightbulb: one, would they have extended david, two would they have gone after brees then drafted Bush like N.O. did or three would they have drafted Vince Young? as it turned out we now should have one heck of a defensive line & possibly a real franchise QB anyway :doot:

The Texans probably would have just hired someone else to be the GM and Coach....part of the job was to accept David Carr last year. I don't think McNair was willing to accept anything less than a coach that would take DC and work with him....as sad as that is looking back. McNair had an attraction to DC that was hard to explain.

Specnatz
05-23-2007, 03:45 PM
The Texans probably would have just hired someone else to be the GM and Coach....part of the job was to accept David Carr last year. I don't think McNair was willing to accept anything less than a coach that would take DC and work with him....as sad as that is looking back. McNair had an attraction to DC that was hard to explain.

I think it is more like, it is hard to admit when your wrong and you argue even harder to try and make your point even when you start to realize it is wrong.

real
05-23-2007, 03:56 PM
Do you think Kubiak knew that David was damaged goods before he took the job ?

I find it hard to believe that Kubiak would have had negative feelings about David but didn't say anything...

He probably said something along the lines of: "Mr. McNair, I know David is your kid and you have high hopes for him and despite the fact that I think going in a different direction at that position would be what's best, I'm going to put my all into David and do the best I can in order to make sure he's put into a situation in which he can succeed. I'll work with him on his footwork, timing, leadership and confidence...you know...all the finer points of being an NFL QB. With his physical tools he should be able to succeed, but time will tell"....16 games and 11 tds later "Bob, this guy just doesn't have it...The rest of the team wasn't great, but this guy was just absolutely terrible"

McNair: "you're right...I hate to have to do this but lets go in a different direction"

Vinny
05-23-2007, 04:08 PM
Do you think Kubiak knew that David was damaged goods before he took the job ?


I'm sure he saw flaws...but he may have assumed the problems were correctable. Apparently after a year of working with him he figured out that Carr was a coach killer and didn't want to be the next victim.

infantrycak
05-23-2007, 04:12 PM
I'm sure he saw flaws...but he may have assumed the problems were correctable.

I think that is exactly right--he saw things he thought were coachable--turned out the player couldn't execute the changes.

Second Honeymoon
05-23-2007, 04:12 PM
I'm sure he saw flaws...but he may have assumed the problems were correctable. Apparently after a year of working with him he figured out that Carr was a coach killer and didn't want to be the next victim.

Did somebody say 'coach killer'?

Signed,
Micheal Vick

real
05-23-2007, 04:36 PM
Did somebody say 'coach killer'?

Signed,
Micheal Vick


I wholeheartedly support anybody who is coach killing....




Signed,

Clinton Portis



P.S: My statements in no way reflect my personal standing on being a coach killer

SheTexan
05-23-2007, 04:56 PM
WOW!!! After reading this thread there is NO reason the TEXANS should NOT go to the SB this next year!!!! After all, the horrendous DAVID CARR, the ONE AND ONLY REASON THE TEXANS SUCKED SO BAD, is gone, replaced by the saviour of all QBs, the mighty MATT SCHAUB, who has played a grand total 4 games in the NFL!! I am so excited I can hardly wait!!!!!! Gonna put my bid in for a SB ticket right NOW!!!!!!:rolleyes: :sarcasm:

real
05-23-2007, 05:23 PM
WOW!!! After reading this thread there is NO reason the TEXANS should NOT go to the SB this next year!!!! After all, the horrendous DAVID CARR, the ONE AND ONLY REASON THE TEXANS SUCKED SO BAD, is gone, replaced by the saviour of all QBs, the mighty MATT SCHAUB, who has played a grand total 4 games in the NFL!! I am so excited I can hardly wait!!!!!! Gonna put my bid in for a SB ticket right NOW!!!!!!:rolleyes: :sarcasm:

2nd statement of yours I've read today that has rubbed me the wrong way....

Texans_Chick
05-23-2007, 05:26 PM
The Texans probably would have just hired someone else to be the GM and Coach....part of the job was to accept David Carr last year. I don't think McNair was willing to accept anything less than a coach that would take DC and work with him....as sad as that is looking back. McNair had an attraction to DC that was hard to explain.


Actually, I think the Texans did with the QB position what most teams would have done.

Casserly says DC is not the problem. Casserly also happens really not to like non-traditional QBs much (i.e. VY).

McNair doesn't trust Casserly, so brings in consultant Dan Reeves. Dan Reeves says that DC is not the problem too.

Kubiak, a QB, a QB coach, and OC, says, yeah, there's problems on the tape with DC, but he has the physical tools to succeed. He's athletic, he's made different throws, looked okay in the first part of 2004, and no QB could have succeeded in the offensive scheme of 2005. He hears that DC is willing to work and is coachable. Because of the timing of Kubiak's hiring, he has nothing to work with Carr other than video.

The traditional NFL move if you think you have a QB that can work for you with more coaching is to keep that QB, and then focus on other parts of the team. What was non-traditional was to pick defensive end instead of the consensus #1 pick Bush.

The unconventional thing is not keeping Carr's option, rather it was:

1. Extending DC for 3 years.
2. Picking Williams over Bush.

Texans_Chick
05-23-2007, 05:28 PM
WOW!!! After reading this thread there is NO reason the TEXANS should NOT go to the SB this next year!!!! After all, the horrendous DAVID CARR, the ONE AND ONLY REASON THE TEXANS SUCKED SO BAD, is gone, replaced by the saviour of all QBs, the mighty MATT SCHAUB, who has played a grand total 4 games in the NFL!! I am so excited I can hardly wait!!!!!! Gonna put my bid in for a SB ticket right NOW!!!!!!:rolleyes: :sarcasm:

Dang, I have to say I love them SheTexan blasts.

It's nice when there is somebody around to challenge the group think.

Runner
05-23-2007, 05:31 PM
Who said it was all Carr?

This piece highlighted Carr's troubles reading defenses and especially making quick reads. It was surprising in that it was one of the first I've seen to focus on the aspect of his game that many on the various mb's had been criticizing for years. It was presented in the context that it wasn't all the o-lines fault (for a change).

Personally, I think our o-line improved the minute Ocho Viejo walked out the door.

Many posters on various threads have alluded to the line being fixed because Carr is gone. I certainly didn't say you hold that opinion. IMO, the line is improved, but I don't think it is fixed. Like I said in the rest of my post, there is plenty of blame to go around for the offensive problems the Texans have had for years.

I too thought it was refreshing that the media did a little more study of the Texans before writing something.

Double Barrel
05-23-2007, 05:31 PM
WOW!!! After reading this thread there is NO reason the TEXANS should NOT go to the SB this next year!!!! After all, the horrendous DAVID CARR, the ONE AND ONLY REASON THE TEXANS SUCKED SO BAD, is gone, replaced by the saviour of all QBs, the mighty MATT SCHAUB, who has played a grand total 4 games in the NFL!! I am so excited I can hardly wait!!!!!! Gonna put my bid in for a SB ticket right NOW!!!!!!:rolleyes: :sarcasm:

So I take it you are a "Schaub hater"? :confused:

Dang, I have to say I love them SheTexan blasts.

It's nice when there is somebody around to challenge the group think.

Challenge group think? NFL Network seems to be doing a pretty good job of that with this segment on Carr. :ok:

Texan_Bill
05-23-2007, 05:32 PM
Not to re-hash DC sucks or it was all DC's fault, but what I find funny is that I don't see any mention of AJ's comments as it related to the way Carr was coached. I mean, as much as AJ is loved, you would think people would put more credence in his comments - which I found intriguing.... :hmmm:

SheTexan
05-23-2007, 05:34 PM
2nd statement of yours I've read today that has rubbed me the wrong way....

Such is life on a MB. Everyone is has a right to post an opinion, good, bad, or indifferent!! I am certain it won't be the last time I rub you wrong either. I get rubbed wrong on a daily basis. USUALLY, I just keep my keyboard quiet and stay out of contraversy. I decided today was a day to :stirpot:

Double Barrel
05-23-2007, 05:35 PM
Not to re-hash DC sucks or it was all DC's fault, but what I find funny is that I don't see any mention of AJ's comments as it related to the way Carr was coached. I mean, as much as AJ is loved, you would think people would put more credence in his comments - which I found intriguing.... :hmmm:

It's pretty much a given, my friend, that Carr's problems are all the fault of his offensive line, coaches, general manager, owner, ball boy, cheerleaders, ESPN, receivers, and that guy that sells big fingers in section 109.

real
05-23-2007, 05:37 PM
Such is life on a MB. Everyone is has a right to post an opinion, good, bad, or indifferent!! I am certain it won't be the last time I rub you wrong either. I get rubbed wrong on a daily basis. USUALLY, I just keep my keyboard quiet and stay out of contraversy. I decided today was a day to :stirpot:

Yeah, I noticed that you don't normally make comments like you've made...let alone 2 in one day....

That's why I figured it was note worthy...

Runner
05-23-2007, 05:37 PM
Oh c'mon Runner you should know by now that I am far from an either/or thinker. The Texans have been close to the bottom in the NFL in offense for 5 years and a team does not accomplish that because only one piece is bad. A below average OL mixed with an average @best QB whose weakness is reading defenses and pocket awareness created the "perfect storm" called the Texans pass offense. Locally in Dallas, Troy A. once said (paraphrase) that if a QB is getting sacked that often it is part of his job to figure how not get hit that often.

I quoted you as a jumping off point. You know that there are a lot of B&W thinkers around here. I was speaking in general.

The point I was really trying to make is that this team (and the message board in general) has thrown a lot of players under the bus to protect Carr until critical mass was reached and many more people started to realize Carr was a big piece of the problem.

Personally, I think if they had stayed with the 5 guys on the line I listed for 2005, they would have improved and been part of the 2006 team as unit. There were a lot of players and money wasted to cover for Car.

Texan_Bill
05-23-2007, 05:40 PM
It's pretty much a given, my friend, that Carr's problems are all the fault of his offensive line, coaches, general manager, owner, ball boy, cheerleaders, ESPN, receivers, and that guy that sells big fingers in section 109.

I just found it intriguing that AJ's comments were never really discussed here. Figured with all the well rounded football minds (pro and con) on this board that it would have been a hot topic... Maybe it was and I missed it.... :hides:

real
05-23-2007, 05:42 PM
I just found it intriguing that AJ's comments were never really discussed here. Figured with all the well rounded football minds (pro and con) on this board that it would have been a hot topic... Maybe it was and I missed it.... :hides:

It was discussed....

You had things said like "He's an NFL QB, he should take some initiative" to "Our previous coaching staff never gave him a fair shot"...

You know...the usual....

Runner
05-23-2007, 05:43 PM
I just found it intriguing that AJ's comments were never really discussed here. Figured with all the well rounded football minds (pro and con) on this board that it would have been a hot topic...

I think most people assume that Dre was being politically correct - I'm not sure it is possible to convince anyone that what he said was his honest opinion. Maybe if Dre told them himself they'd believe it; maybe not.

Vinny
05-23-2007, 05:44 PM
Actually, I think the Texans did with the QB position what most teams would have done.
I don't know how you reach this conclusion...I can't think of any team that has had a failure as a QB for his first 3 seasons and extend his contract three full seasons and guarantee him the remainder of his first contract...part of that out clause was to protect the team against honoring the length of the contract if the QB wasn't producing franchise level play. It's hard to think that any team other than one with a naive/noob owner that would do this.

Texan_Bill
05-23-2007, 05:44 PM
It was discussed....

You had things said like "He's an NFL QB, he should take some initiative" to "Our previous coaching staff never gave him a fair shot"...

You know...the usual....

The comment I was referring to from Andre went more along this line... "most people around here don't know it, but David was coached to throw the ball to one guy........"

Obviously thats paraphrased but fairly accurate of what AJ said....

real
05-23-2007, 05:46 PM
The comment I was referring to from Andre went more along this line... "most people around here don't know it, but David was coached to throw the ball to one guy........"

Obviously thats paraphrased but fairly accurate of what AJ said....

I'm familar with it...

But I think it was more a long the lines of "the coaches told him where to go with the ball before the play"....or something like that...

Vinny
05-23-2007, 05:47 PM
The comment I was referring to from Andre went more along this line... "most people around here don't know it, but David was coached to throw the ball to one guy........"

Obviously thats paraphrased but fairly accurate of what AJ said....part of that reason was his inability to read a defense. I'm sure Palmer didn't coach Bledsoe or Mark Brunell this way. They had to dumb down the offense for Carr. I mentioned this in 2003 but I just got my usual hater commentary directed at me.

Texan_Bill
05-23-2007, 05:47 PM
I think most people assume that Dre was being politically correct - I'm not sure it is possible to convince anyone that what he said was his honest opinion. Maybe if Dre told them himself they'd believe it; maybe not.

I can buy the PC thing, but I would be more apt to beleive that he wouldn't have said anything at all... TC mentioned it the other day in another topic that AJ is not really comfortable in those situations - so I could see him refraining from saying anything at all rather than potentially immersing himself into a possible contraversial situation...

Texan_Bill
05-23-2007, 05:48 PM
part of that reason was his inability to read a defense. I'm sure Palmer didn't coach Bledsoe or Mark Brunell this way. They had to dumb down the defense for Carr. I mentioned this in 2003 but I just got my usual hater commentary directed at me.

First, "chicken or the egg"??

Second, how about Tim Couch??

*EDIT* .... not trying to turn this into a Vinny is a Hater topic.....

Texan_Bill
05-23-2007, 05:49 PM
I'm familar with it...

But I think it was more a long the lines of "the coaches told him where to go with the ball before the play"....or something like that...

Fair enough... that sounds familiar...

Vinny
05-23-2007, 05:50 PM
part of that reason was his inability to read a defense. I'm sure Palmer didn't coach Bledsoe or Mark Brunell this way. They had to dumb down the offense for Carr. I mentioned this in 2003 but I just got my usual hater commentary directed at me.First, "chicken or the egg"??

Second, how about Tim Couch??Palmer scaled back the offense...Pendry did...and then Kubiak the exact same thing the previous two OC's did. I think that the common thread was David Carr. Tim Couch actually had better stats than Carr did early in his career...Palmer couldn't coach-up his bad shoulder.

Specnatz
05-23-2007, 05:53 PM
Not to re-hash DC sucks or it was all DC's fault, but what I find funny is that I don't see any mention of AJ's comments as it related to the way Carr was coached. I mean, as much as AJ is loved, you would think people would put more credence in his comments - which I found intriguing.... :hmmm:

I recall that being posted here and I was utterly shocked by what the past was said to have done and they were blasted once again for the poor coaching job that was done.

Like I have said many times, it is not all the Lines fault, it's not all Carrs fault, and it's not all the coaches fault. They all share equal blame.

Texan_Bill
05-23-2007, 06:00 PM
I recall that being posted here and I was utterly shocked by what the past was said to have done and they were blasted once again for the poor coaching job that was done.

Like I have said many times, it is not all the Lines fault, it's not all Carrs fault, and it's not all the coaches fault. They all share equal blame.

My sentiments from day one, BUT ultimately someone MUST be held accountable. I find it hard to hold a rookie QB of an expansion team, with admittedly 3-4 OC's in 5 seasons to be the one to be held accountable.. I never said that DC didnt contribute to his own demise here in Houston, but it seems short-minded to even suggest he was the majority of the problem..

Whose mistake is this Mr. McNair (which is the only one that is forgivable to me since he owns the team), Casserly's, Caper's, Palmer's, Carr's, Bosseli's... heck, Jimmy Herndon's???

The Pencil Neck
05-23-2007, 06:00 PM
WOW!!! After reading this thread there is NO reason the TEXANS should NOT go to the SB this next year!!!! After all, the horrendous DAVID CARR, the ONE AND ONLY REASON THE TEXANS SUCKED SO BAD, is gone, replaced by the saviour of all QBs, the mighty MATT SCHAUB, who has played a grand total 4 games in the NFL!! I am so excited I can hardly wait!!!!!! Gonna put my bid in for a SB ticket right NOW!!!!!!:rolleyes: :sarcasm:

I know it's hard for you to deal with this but Carr really did play that badly last year.

Now, with that said, no one has ever said that Carr was the one and only reason the Texans didn't win more... except people like you trying to create straw man arguments. Just look at all the threads about our OLB's, our free safeties, our RBs, our missing #2 WR, and our line. The people in those threads talking about what we need to improve are frequently the same people who are pleased that Carr is gone. So don't try to make it sound like people are only blaming Carr.

We could have gotten more production out of our running game. Our offensive line could have given Carr more time. Our defense could have gotten people off the field better.

But you gave Carr all this time and refuse to believe he's a bad player. Why not give Schaub half a season to see what he can do?

ArlingtonTexan
05-23-2007, 06:03 PM
I quoted you as a jumping off point. You know that there are a lot of B&W thinkers around here. I was speaking in general.

The point I was really trying to make is that this team (and the message board in general) has thrown a lot of players under the bus to protect Carr until critical mass was reached and many more people started to realize Carr was a big piece of the problem.

Personally, I think if they had stayed with the 5 guys on the line I listed for 2005, they would have improved and been part of the 2006 team as unit. There were a lot of players and money wasted to cover for Car.

I read your post with more sarcasism(sp) than you meant. We, in fact, are probably working along the same page.

Texan_Bill
05-23-2007, 06:03 PM
Palmer scaled back the offense...Pendry did...and then Kubiak the exact same thing the previous two OC's did. I think that the common thread was David Carr. Tim Couch actually had better stats than Carr did early in his career...Palmer couldn't coach-up his bad shoulder.

I may have my OC's crossed up, but wasn't Pendry the OC, when they gave Carr the reigns in the first half of a game and the O put up 24 points... If I remember correctly Pendry took over the play calling in the second half and I think we scored 3. Sounds like the play-book was dumbed-up for the sake of Pendry...

Again, I could be mistaken so no flame necessary...

The Pencil Neck
05-23-2007, 06:03 PM
I just found it intriguing that AJ's comments were never really discussed here. Figured with all the well rounded football minds (pro and con) on this board that it would have been a hot topic... Maybe it was and I missed it.... :hides:

I thought it was discussed. But by that time I was just so happy that Carr was gone that I didn't think we needed to keep :deadhorse

But... we're still going at it. :)

Vinny
05-23-2007, 06:04 PM
I may have my OC's crossed up, but wasn't Pendry the OC, when they gave Carr the reigns in the first half of a game and the O put up 24 points... If I remember correctly Pendry took over the play calling in the second half and I think we scored 3. Sounds like the play-book was dumbed-up for the sake of Pendry...

Again, I could be mistaken so no flame necessary...
sure...but the running game and the O line are what got that 24 points. If Carr was all that don't you think some team would have jumped on him to start since nobody had to pay any compensation for him? I think the league knows his value for the most part....good luck to him. I'm just glad he's gone and we try to get some NFL quality QB play in 07

The Pencil Neck
05-23-2007, 06:05 PM
Dang, I have to say I love them SheTexan blasts.

It's nice when there is somebody around to challenge the group think.

Is that challenging the new group think or just inertia from the old group think?

ArlingtonTexan
05-23-2007, 06:11 PM
Amazing a David Carr oriented thread generates pages of discussion. :gun:

The Pencil Neck
05-23-2007, 06:15 PM
Amazing a David Carr oriented thread generates pages of discussion. :gun:


Man, it's going to be a LONG time before any discussion of Schaub or last year doesn't involve Carr. But, if 2 pages is making you pull the trigger, you've got a really low tolerance. Don't go over to the NFL discussion over on the Texans site and take a look at the 12+ pages in the Carr vs. Delhomme thread.

The guy was our QB for a long time. We're not going to just stop talking about him. It's going to be a long time before we can talk about the history or the future of the team without his name coming up.

the wonger need food
05-23-2007, 06:16 PM
I know it's hard for you to deal with this but Carr really did play that badly last year.


You obviously missed the Oakland game.... and the first Tennessee game.... and the New England game... and just about every other game.

Texan_Bill
05-23-2007, 06:18 PM
The bright side is: A fresh start.... A breath of fresh air....

awtysst
05-23-2007, 06:21 PM
I think that is exactly right--he saw things he thought were coachable--turned out the player couldn't execute the changes.

Thats right, football is all about execution.

signed,
Dom Capers

Porky
05-23-2007, 06:24 PM
First, "chicken or the egg"??

Second, how about Tim Couch??

*EDIT* .... not trying to turn this into a Vinny is a Hater topic.....

Palmer didn't seem to dumb down the offense for Tony Romo, a first time starter last year.

Porky
05-23-2007, 06:26 PM
Such is life on a MB. Everyone is has a right to post an opinion, good, bad, or indifferent!! I am certain it won't be the last time I rub you wrong either. I get rubbed wrong on a daily basis. USUALLY, I just keep my keyboard quiet and stay out of contraversy. I decided today was a day to :stirpot:

I totally disagreed with your take, but since you stuck up for me, I must say I loved your post. :splits: :devilpig: :texflag:

cuppacoffee
05-23-2007, 06:26 PM
WOW!!! After reading this thread there is NO reason the TEXANS should NOT go to the SB this next year!!!! After all, the horrendous DAVID CARR, the ONE AND ONLY REASON THE TEXANS SUCKED SO BAD, is gone, replaced by the saviour of all QBs, the mighty MATT SCHAUB, who has played a grand total 4 games in the NFL!! I am so excited I can hardly wait!!!!!! Gonna put my bid in for a SB ticket right NOW!!!!!!:rolleyes: :sarcasm:

SheTexan.:thumbup

The haters won, they are now permitted to post any and all anti-Carr comments they can find.

Carr supporters are now supposed to sit back and not reply to them.

Haters are like fire ants.

Poision the mound and they just come back double.

Gonna be lots of crow eating when Carr gets a decent chance to succeed..:winky:

Schaub may be all that, but the Carr haters quite possibly may be setting themselves up for a big letdown.

Be careful not to rub any more people the wrong way. I can only imagine how much that must ruin you day. :D


:coffee:

Texan_Bill
05-23-2007, 06:30 PM
Palmer didn't seem to dumb down the offense for Tony Romo, a first time starter last year.

True.... but a couple of seasons on the bench as an NFL QB to absorb the game.... To bad he couldn't "execute" the hold on an extra point..

PS..... I stood up for you too Porky.... LMAO...

swtbound07
05-23-2007, 06:45 PM
SheTexan.:thumbup

The haters won, they are now permitted to post any and all anti-Carr comments they can find.

Carr supporters are now supposed to sit back and not reply to them.

Haters are like fire ants.

Poision the mound and they just come back double.

Gonna be lots of crow eating when Carr gets a decent chance to succeed..:winky:

Schaub may be all that, but the Carr haters quite possibly may be setting themselves up for a big letdown.

Be careful not to rub any more people the wrong way. I can only imagine how much that must ruin you day. :D


:coffee:

you cannot possibly be that insane. Nobody but Hulk can say something like that with a straight face.

swtbound07
05-23-2007, 06:47 PM
WOW!!! After reading this thread there is NO reason the TEXANS should NOT go to the SB this next year!!!! After all, the horrendous DAVID CARR, the ONE AND ONLY REASON THE TEXANS SUCKED SO BAD, is gone, replaced by the saviour of all QBs, the mighty MATT SCHAUB, who has played a grand total 4 games in the NFL!! I am so excited I can hardly wait!!!!!! Gonna put my bid in for a SB ticket right NOW!!!!!!:rolleyes: :sarcasm:

Im sorry...this is the south. Did we not give his career the appropriate 6 month mourning period before we stopped wearing black miss o'hara? I would hate to think that I put on my Schaub jersey out of happiness too early... oh the scandal!

Porky
05-23-2007, 06:48 PM
True.... but a couple of seasons on the bench as an NFL QB to absorb the game.... To bad he couldn't "execute" the hold on an extra point..

PS..... I stood up for you too Porky.... LMAO...


True dat. More mea culpa's I guess.

Ok, loved your post. Best post only like Ever!

How is that? :splits: :user:

SheTexan
05-23-2007, 06:49 PM
I totally disagreed with your take, but since you stuck up for me, I must say I loved your post. :splits: :devilpig: :texflag:


Looks like I succeeded in stiring the pot, just a little! Just having a little fun, not enough of it these days.

As for MATT, I support him 100%!! He is now a TEXAN and that's all that matters. I supported DC because he WAS a TEXAN, I'm just not into bashing our players, regardless of how bad they are. Change is GOOD, so I hear! I am definitley NOT a MS hater, no freaking way!!! He's to da*n cute!!:doot: Sorry, just had to throw that in!!

It's the OFF SEASON guy's!! Have a little fun!!

Porky
05-23-2007, 06:50 PM
SheTexan.:thumbup

The haters won, they are now permitted to post any and all anti-Carr comments they can find.

Carr supporters are now supposed to sit back and not reply to them.

Haters are like fire ants.

Poision the mound and they just come back double.

Gonna be lots of crow eating when Carr gets a decent chance to succeed..:winky:

Schaub may be all that, but the Carr haters quite possibly may be setting themselves up for a big letdown.

Be careful not to rub any more people the wrong way. I can only imagine how much that must ruin you day. :D


:coffee:


Lol. Funny. Carr will be out of the league soon enough, or will stick as a long term backup at best. I suggest you start the Carr fan club. At least you can fit in one car, and the meals will be cheap. :pirate:

Texan_Bill
05-23-2007, 06:53 PM
True dat. More mea culpa's I guess.

Ok, loved your post. Best post only like Ever!

How is that? :splits: :user:

LOL..... You took the cheap way out..... :gun:

The Pencil Neck
05-23-2007, 06:56 PM
You obviously missed the Oakland game.... and the first Tennessee game.... and the New England game... and just about every other game.

You obviously didn't read what I wrote.

Try it again:

"I know it's hard for you to deal with this but Carr really did play that badly last year."

See... "He really DID play that badly" not "He really DID NOT play that badly."

Runner
05-23-2007, 06:57 PM
I read your post with more sarcasism(sp) than you meant. We, in fact, are probably working along the same page.

I think that was one of my worst posts ever. It wasn't very clear.

Bluntly said:

Many players' early careers were sacrificed on the alter of Carr.

Wand - it was all the o-line's fault in 2004, and LT is the critical position. Replace the LT! However, Munchak seems to like him, and I think Mike knows something about o-line play.

Gaffney - what an underacheiver, right? He has shown some flashes since leaving here though. Too bad he didn't get to develp more.

Even Ragone - what if he had been developed and been "alllowed" to start a couple of games beyond his rookie year? That is all it took for Schaub to make a splash. Everybody assumes he wasn't very good; it would have been nice if he had been given a couple of real chances. There were plenty of opportunities. He may not have been a good practice player, but he sure was a gamer in college and NFLe. Can't make Carr look bad though.

I'm sure there are others - maybe pass catcher Billy Miller? Maybe Todd Wade would have been adequate though expensive?

ArlingtonTexan
05-23-2007, 07:01 PM
Man, it's going to be a LONG time before any discussion of Schaub or last year doesn't involve Carr. But, if 2 pages is making you pull the trigger, you've got a really low tolerance. Don't go over to the NFL discussion over on the Texans site and take a look at the 12+ pages in the Carr vs. Delhomme thread.

The guy was our QB for a long time. We're not going to just stop talking about him. It's going to be a long time before we can talk about the history or the future of the team without his name coming up.


Actually, yes we can talk about Schaub w/o talking about Carr. It will help when have actual games, but I am as guilty as anyone of just repeating the same things about him that have been said for the better part of five years. Its not two pages, it is the inability to turn the page.

The Pencil Neck
05-23-2007, 07:12 PM
Actually, yes we can talk about Schaub w/o talking about Carr.

In a perfect world, maybe. But this isn't a perfect world. I don't think it's possible in any Texans' forum. There's just too many people with too many emotions wrapped up in the Texan's QB position. If you say something good about Schaub, some people are going to take it as an attack on Carr and start tearing Schaub down or talking about how Schaub is going to take a beating like Carr did or whatever. If you say bad things about Schaub, people (like me, I know) are going to bring up Carr's history and the race is on.

I mean, Baldinger's thing on NFLN that started this is a perfect example. He couldn't talk about how good Schaub is going to be; he had to compare and contrast with Carr.

Honoring Earl 34
05-23-2007, 07:12 PM
SheTexan.:thumbup

The haters won, they are now permitted to post any and all anti-Carr comments they can find.

Carr supporters are now supposed to sit back and not reply to them.

Haters are like fire ants.

Poision the mound and they just come back double.

Gonna be lots of crow eating when Carr gets a decent chance to succeed..:winky:

Schaub may be all that, but the Carr haters quite possibly may be setting themselves up for a big letdown.

Be careful not to rub any more people the wrong way. I can only imagine how much that must ruin you day. :D


:coffee:

The so called Carr haters are some of the biggest Texan fans ... we did not and have not won anything in this .

The Carr debacle set the team back a couple of years so again we did not get a thing out of this except heartburn .

Double Barrel
05-23-2007, 07:14 PM
The haters won, they are now permitted to post any and all anti-Carr comments they can find.

I suppose the NFL Network is in on your little Carr hatin' conspiracy now, too? :tinfoil:

As for MATT, I support him 100%!! He is now a TEXAN and that's all that matters.

Good to hear. :texflag:

I'm just not into bashing our players, regardless of how bad they are.

Honestly, SheTexan, this was not a "Carr bashin'" thread. There was a legitimate analytical expose on the NFL Network that took a good hard look at both QBs, and this thread was started to discuss the issue given the fact that we are so familiar with the subject matter.

But nobody has advocated a position that we are going to the Super Bowl this year, and quite a few people think Coach Kubiak is drinking some powerful koolaide for even mentioning the playoffs as our goal this season.

I understand that there is a lot of emotional attachment - both positive and negative - about this particular subject, but I find it refreshing because it is all born from a dedication to the team as fanatics. If nobody griped, then nobody cares, and we see quite the opposite from the handful of dedicated Texans fans left.

Honoring Earl 34
05-23-2007, 07:20 PM
thanks to dawgnme (http://boards.houstontexans.com/forums/permalink/25949/25835/ShowThread.aspx#25835)

(Intro. from break: clip from March 22 press conference introducing Schaub)

Female host: As the Texans new Quarterback, Matt Schaub spent last week (month before last, lady!) on the phone calling his teammates and introducing himself. Introductions aside now, Schaub has a lot to prove on the field. After throwing only 161 passes in his 3 years as Michael Vick's backup. Brian Baldinger takes a closer look at the expectations surrounding Schaub in Houston.

Baldinger: Gary Kubiak's first decision as the Head Coach of the Houston Texans last year... was a disaster. He paid David Carr $8 million to extend his contract, he couldn't get the job done. (Cut to Carr throwing that perfect pass to Assante Samuel last year) They've now corrected that by trading for Matt Schaub. The difference between the two players? Matt Schaub can get rid of the football. He processes information like a Pentium 2 chip. (Cut to Schaub throwing a perfect 35-yd. strike against Samuel [nice touch, NFLN]) The bonus? Matt Schaub is going to be running the exact same offense that he ran in Atlanta, now in Houston.

(Cut to telestrator) Big part of the offense in Houston is the bootleg (Carr under center - all blue unis. against the Colts, perfect pass to the boom cameraman). Zone stretch. Come off in the Zone Stretch and then bootleg. You think back to Denver where Gary Kubiak came from... Elway, Jake Plummer... bootleg was a big part. But they hardly ran it at all in Houston last year because, David Carr couldn't do it. (Cut to Schaub running the same play against Seattle for a perfect 30-yd. strike to Crumpler) But inAtlanta, it was a big part of the offense. It's the same thing, Zone Stretch. Fake it to Warrick Dunn, gets the hand extended right there, excellent ball fake holding the LBs. Now watch him snap his head around. Read this backside DE, Matt Schaub did that - that's why he pulls up here. Now, find the open zone. Here it is, here comes the receiver in the zone... Matt schaub pulls the trigger. You gotta be able to pull the trigger in this game, and Matt Schaub can do it.

Watch Matt Schaub read coverage right here. (Cut to a 3-wide play against the Vikings) 2-deep, man under. As soon as he sees these man-to-man defenders turn their backs, he knows on third down, pull the ball down. A lot of open space. And then he's an athlete. (Cut to an ankle breaker against the DT, and a 25-yd. scramble for the 1st down) In fact, they never changed any part of the offense for Matt Schaub, when he was in there versus Mike Vick. You'll see Schaubie right here. Can't beat coverage any better than this throw did right here. (Cut to another perfect 50-yd. strike against Samuel in position for receiver to get another 14 YAC) No S in the middle of the field, that's cover 0, and he's got a post here. He knows that he's gonna have outside leverage, forcing it to the middle. He's got to beat this rotating corner coming from the other side, which he does perfectly. Pre-snap recognition, the right throw, huge play for the Falcons. He processes information so quickly. As opposed to David Carr... who had no ability to make good decisions.

(Cut to Carr sack and fumble, and Oakland's return for TD) It's clear from the end zone, that David Carr cannot read coverage. Right now the ball's got out. Boom! There's one, there's two. It can't get easier or more defined than right here. He's got two options, instead, he freezes, he holds on to the ball, the Raiders get 6 going the other way. This happened time and time again. You've got to process information, you've got to be accurate, and then you've got to be tough. (Cut to Schaub on a 25-yd. out against the Patriots) A QB's decision-making, can beat this blitz right here. Matt Schaub looks right down the barrell, step, throw, take the hit, takes the shot to the ribs, doesn't flinch, delivers this ball perfectly like the defender isn't there. Matt Schaub has only attempted 161 passes in the NFL in his 3-year carreer, not very many. But it's throws like this that have convinced Gary Kubiak and the Houston Texans that he is now ready, and poised, to lead this team.

Female host: So, Brain Baldinger giving Matt Schaub, or Schaubie as he calls him a very good chance to succeed in Houston. Rod, what do you think?

Rod Woodson: Well, if you look at the team, they were 21st in rushing last year, and if Ahman Green, if he comes in and they're better than that, then he has an opportunity because there hasn't been too many QBs in the NFL present and in history that can take the brunt load of throwing the football down in and down out. I think Matt Schaub falls in that category, you don't want to see him throw the football 45 times a game. You want to see him hand the ball off to Ahman Green, and watch this guy run for good yardage because once you start getting into a one-sided game throwing the football, defenses can pin their ears back and get after a QB. So, if they can be balanced, then he has an opportunity to be successful.

Mike Lombardi (former Raiders FO): But you know, Rod, you would have liked to have played against David Carr 'cause he stares down the opponent, and you would have had a lot of INTs in that game. But I think Houston had to make this move, QBs never make it to the market in free agency, they never come available, and secondly, Houston last year, Houston only averaged 5.8 per attempt, and that's way too low. They need to be able to throw the ball up the field. David Carr last year was 68% completions, that's really good, but he couldn't get the ball up the field. His eye level was way down, he was watching his offensive lineman, and he really couldn't make a play. They need plays in the passing game. To win in the NFL, you gotta make plays in the passing game. You run to keep the lead, you throw to get the lead.

Woodson: You know, a lot of people say that Schaub was the best aquisition in the offseason, but I really like David Carr going to Carolina because, I don't know how bad he is. I know he held the ball a lot, but I think he held the ball more so because he was getting hit a lot, he didn't trust his receivers outside of Johnson - that's the only guy he had that could catch the football, and he looked at him ALL the time. So, with that, I would like to see what David Carr can do because I'm not a Jake DelHomme fan. I think, he has a better football team going to Carolina, more weapons, I'd just like to see him get in there and see how good he can be because he has some talent, now let's see if he can be taught and get out of those bad habits he had in Houston.

Lombardi: I think he's going to need to take some time off, to kind of get his body, get his eye level back up a little bit so he can look down the field, because right now David Carr doesn't see anything but those guys rushing, and he's a fumbler in the pocket, and he's a turnover waiting to happen. He needs a break right now.

Female host: And Matt Schaub certainly though will need some help from the OL to avoid the sacks that David Carr took.

DANG!!! Anything for my peeps, though. Try this link:

http://www.dishnetwork.com/

ArlingtonTexan
05-23-2007, 07:32 PM
In a perfect world, maybe. But this isn't a perfect world. I don't think it's possible in any Texans' forum. There's just too many people with too many emotions wrapped up in the Texan's QB position. If you say something good about Schaub, some people are going to take it as an attack on Carr and start tearing Schaub down or talking about how Schaub is going to take a beating like Carr did or whatever. If you say bad things about Schaub, people (like me, I know) are going to bring up Carr's history and the race is on.

I mean, Baldinger's thing on NFLN that started this is a perfect example. He couldn't talk about how good Schaub is going to be; he had to compare and contrast with Carr.

Fair points.

cuppacoffee
05-23-2007, 07:35 PM
(Intro. from break: clip from March 22 press conference introducing Schaub)

Female host: As the Texans new Quarterback, Matt Schaub spent last week (month before last, lady!) on the phone calling his teammates and introducing himself. Introductions aside now, Schaub has a lot to prove on the field. After throwing only 161 passes in his 3 years as Michael Vick's backup. Brian Baldinger takes a closer look at the expectations surrounding Schaub in Houston.

Baldinger: Gary Kubiak's first decision as the Head Coach of the Houston Texans last year... was a disaster. He paid David Carr $8 million to extend his contract, he couldn't get the job done. (Cut to Carr throwing that perfect pass to Assante Samuel last year) They've now corrected that by trading for Matt Schaub. The difference between the two players? Matt Schaub can get rid of the football. He processes information like a Pentium 2 chip. (Cut to Schaub throwing a perfect 35-yd. strike against Samuel [nice touch, NFLN]) The bonus? Matt Schaub is going to be running the exact same offense that he ran in Atlanta, now in Houston.

(Cut to telestrator) Big part of the offense in Houston is the bootleg (Carr under center - all blue unis. against the Colts, perfect pass to the boom cameraman). Zone stretch. Come off in the Zone Stretch and then bootleg. You think back to Denver where Gary Kubiak came from... Elway, Jake Plummer... bootleg was a big part. But they hardly ran it at all in Houston last year because, David Carr couldn't do it. (Cut to Schaub running the same play against Seattle for a perfect 30-yd. strike to Crumpler) But inAtlanta, it was a big part of the offense. It's the same thing, Zone Stretch. Fake it to Warrick Dunn, gets the hand extended right there, excellent ball fake holding the LBs. Now watch him snap his head around. Read this backside DE, Matt Schaub did that - that's why he pulls up here. Now, find the open zone. Here it is, here comes the receiver in the zone... Matt schaub pulls the trigger. You gotta be able to pull the trigger in this game, and Matt Schaub can do it.

Watch Matt Schaub read coverage right here. (Cut to a 3-wide play against the Vikings) 2-deep, man under. As soon as he sees these man-to-man defenders turn their backs, he knows on third down, pull the ball down. A lot of open space. And then he's an athlete. (Cut to an ankle breaker against the DT, and a 25-yd. scramble for the 1st down) In fact, they never changed any part of the offense for Matt Schaub, when he was in there versus Mike Vick. You'll see Schaubie right here. Can't beat coverage any better than this throw did right here. (Cut to another perfect 50-yd. strike against Samuel in position for receiver to get another 14 YAC) No S in the middle of the field, that's cover 0, and he's got a post here. He knows that he's gonna have outside leverage, forcing it to the middle. He's got to beat this rotating corner coming from the other side, which he does perfectly. Pre-snap recognition, the right throw, huge play for the Falcons. He processes information so quickly. As opposed to David Carr... who had no ability to make good decisions.

(Cut to Carr sack and fumble, and Oakland's return for TD) It's clear from the end zone, that David Carr cannot read coverage. Right now the ball's got out. Boom! There's one, there's two. It can't get easier or more defined than right here. He's got two options, instead, he freezes, he holds on to the ball, the Raiders get 6 going the other way. This happened time and time again. You've got to process information, you've got to be accurate, and then you've got to be tough. (Cut to Schaub on a 25-yd. out against the Patriots) A QB's decision-making, can beat this blitz right here. Matt Schaub looks right down the barrell, step, throw, take the hit, takes the shot to the ribs, doesn't flinch, delivers this ball perfectly like the defender isn't there. Matt Schaub has only attempted 161 passes in the NFL in his 3-year carreer, not very many. But it's throws like this that have convinced Gary Kubiak and the Houston Texans that he is now ready, and poised, to lead this team.

Female host: So, Brain Baldinger giving Matt Schaub, or Schaubie as he calls him a very good chance to succeed in Houston. Rod, what do you think?

Rod Woodson: Well, if you look at the team, they were 21st in rushing last year, and if Ahman Green, if he comes in and they're better than that, then he has an opportunity because there hasn't been too many QBs in the NFL present and in history that can take the brunt load of throwing the football down in and down out. I think Matt Schaub falls in that category, you don't want to see him throw the football 45 times a game. You want to see him hand the ball off to Ahman Green, and watch this guy run for good yardage because once you start getting into a one-sided game throwing the football, defenses can pin their ears back and get after a QB. So, if they can be balanced, then he has an opportunity to be successful.

Mike Lombardi (former Raiders FO): But you know, Rod, you would have liked to have played against David Carr 'cause he stares down the opponent, and you would have had a lot of INTs in that game. But I think Houston had to make this move, QBs never make it to the market in free agency, they never come available, and secondly, Houston last year, Houston only averaged 5.8 per attempt, and that's way too low. They need to be able to throw the ball up the field. David Carr last year was 68% completions, that's really good, but he couldn't get the ball up the field. His eye level was way down, he was watching his offensive lineman, and he really couldn't make a play. They need plays in the passing game. To win in the NFL, you gotta make plays in the passing game. You run to keep the lead, you throw to get the lead.

Woodson: You know, a lot of people say that Schaub was the best aquisition in the offseason, but I really like David Carr going to Carolina because, I don't know how bad he is. I know he held the ball a lot, but I think he held the ball more so because he was getting hit a lot, he didn't trust his receivers outside of Johnson - that's the only guy he had that could catch the football, and he looked at him ALL the time. So, with that, I would like to see what David Carr can do because I'm not a Jake DelHomme fan. I think, he has a better football team going to Carolina, more weapons, I'd just like to see him get in there and see how good he can be because he has some talent, now let's see if he can be taught and get out of those bad habits he had in Houston.
Lombardi: I think he's going to need to take some time off, to kind of get his body, get his eye level back up a little bit so he can look down the field, because right now David Carr doesn't see anything but those guys rushing, and he's a fumbler in the pocket, and he's a turnover waiting to happen. He needs a break right now.

Female host: And Matt Schaub certainly though will need some help from the OL to avoid the sacks that David Carr took.
DANG!!! Anything for my peeps, though. Try this link:

http://www.dishnetwork.com/

Funny, not too much discussion on these comments. Whatever.

:coffee:

Texans_Chick
05-23-2007, 07:53 PM
I don't know how you reach this conclusion...I can't think of any team that has had a failure as a QB for his first 3 seasons and extend his contract three full seasons and guarantee him the remainder of his first contract...part of that out clause was to protect the team against honoring the length of the contract if the QB wasn't producing franchise level play. It's hard to think that any team other than one with a naive/noob owner that would do this.

DC's situation was complicated by the expansion thing. There are STILL lots of people who believe that DC could be good in the right situation and with better talent around him. Heck, I spoke to a NFL head coach when I was at the SB who said great things about him.

McNair wants to be able to rely on his football guys. His football guys told him that DC was the QB of the future. They just didn't say that it was going to be someone else's future.

I think a lot of teams would have wanted to keep Carr if they thought they could use that first draft pick on Bush, and that Carr could be given some coaching up.

Vinny
05-23-2007, 08:00 PM
There are STILL lots of people who believe that DC could be good in the right situation and with better talent around him. Heck, I spoke to a NFL head coach when I was at the SB who said great things about him.Teams give up 1st round picks...multiple 2nd rounders and first day picks in general for guys you just described...but it is curious that nobody signed Carr to come in and start even though they didn't have to give up any compensation at all.

Texans_Chick
05-23-2007, 08:07 PM
Teams give up 1st round picks...multiple 2nd rounders and first day picks in general for guys you just described...but it is curious that nobody signed Carr to come in and start even though they didn't have to give up any compensation at all.

It is the difference between before 2006 season and after. If QB coach Kubiak was going to give up on him, well then, he must be sucko.

You could make the argument before the 2006 season that DC played for:

1. a poor team
2. with a really bad line
3. in a TERRIBLE scheme in 2005, with almost usuable film.
4. and played pretty good in the beginning of 2004
5. and had bad coaching

After the last season, former QB, and QB coach Gary Kubiak felt he knew what he had and gave up on DC. That sense of Carr being able to be coached up went away.

Specnatz
05-23-2007, 08:13 PM
Funny, not too much discussion on these comments. Whatever.

:coffee:

Rod Woodson: Well, if you look at the team, they were 21st in rushing last year, and if Ahman Green, if he comes in and they're better than that, then he has an opportunity because there hasn't been too many QBs in the NFL present and in history that can take the brunt load of throwing the football down in and down out. I think Matt Schaub falls in that category, you don't want to see him throw the football 45 times a game. You want to see him hand the ball off to Ahman Green, and watch this guy run for good yardage because once you start getting into a one-sided game throwing the football, defenses can pin their ears back and get after a QB. So, if they can be balanced, then he has an opportunity to be successful.

Mike Lombardi (former Raiders FO): But you know, Rod, you would have liked to have played against David Carr 'cause he stares down the opponent, and you would have had a lot of INTs in that game. But I think Houston had to make this move, QBs never make it to the market in free agency, they never come available, and secondly, Houston last year, Houston only averaged 5.8 per attempt, and that's way too low. They need to be able to throw the ball up the field. David Carr last year was 68% completions, that's really good, but he couldn't get the ball up the field. His eye level was way down, he was watching his offensive lineman, and he really couldn't make a play. They need plays in the passing game. To win in the NFL, you gotta make plays in the passing game. You run to keep the lead, you throw to get the lead.

Woodson: You know, a lot of people say that Schaub was the best aquisition in the offseason, but I really like David Carr going to Carolina because, I don't know how bad he is. I know he held the ball a lot, but I think he held the ball more so because he was getting hit a lot, he didn't trust his receivers outside of Johnson - that's the only guy he had that could catch the football, and he looked at him ALL the time. So, with that, I would like to see what David Carr can do because I'm not a Jake DelHomme fan. I think, he has a better football team going to Carolina, more weapons, I'd just like to see him get in there and see how good he can be because he has some talent, now let's see if he can be taught and get out of those bad habits he had in Houston.
Lombardi: I think he's going to need to take some time off, to kind of get his body, get his eye level back up a little bit so he can look down the field, because right now David Carr doesn't see anything but those guys rushing, and he's a fumbler in the pocket, and he's a turnover waiting to happen. He needs a break right now.

Female host: And Matt Schaub certainly though will need some help from the OL to avoid the sacks that David Carr took.
DANG!!! Anything for my peeps, though. Try this link:


Well I did not get to see the piece, because it was on the NFLN, and timewarner is really starting to irk me off.

OK, as far as those comments go ... Manning and the Colts seem to do pretty good and throwing the ball most of the time and they only had 5 more yards a game than the Texans. But umm, wasn't that the whole point of bringing in Ahman Green? I mean I thought the whole idea of signing him was to help the run game, call me crazy Rod Woodson but I do believe that was the point.

Yep, Rod your not a big fan of a QB who took his team to the SuperBowl in 2003 and the NFC championship game in 2005, way to go smart guy. Guy has a bad year and you are all over him. Woodson did not answer any question or comment on anything Mike Lombardi said, why? Sounds to me like Woodson is a joke as an analysist.

Honoring Earl 34
05-23-2007, 08:16 PM
I looked at the Carolina board and I guess they have'nt seen the show .

I believe the whole Carr debate will take care of itself in a couple of months . Schaub knows the offense and should hit the ground running .

Carr new team , new system ...( in fact he and Jake are both learning the offense ) ... so we will see .

BeerTastesLikeVictory
05-23-2007, 10:25 PM
http://www.dishnetwork.com/[/url]

Pentium 2, niice....Anyone still run a P-2. My guess is that non-computer savy types should stay away from the processor reference.

Honoring Earl 34
05-23-2007, 10:29 PM
Pentium 2, niice....Anyone still run a P-2. My guess is that non-computer savy types should stay away from the processor reference.

Go tell that to Baldinger .

Double Barrel
05-23-2007, 11:03 PM
Funny, not too much discussion on these comments. Whatever.

:coffee:

They are interesting comments, because after five seasons and 70+ NFL starts, even the experts are still not sure what to make out of David Carr.

Kaiser Toro
05-23-2007, 11:09 PM
Go tell that to Baldinger .

The world needs more Baldinger.

Second Honeymoon
05-24-2007, 12:36 AM
Pentium 2, niice....Anyone still run a P-2. My guess is that non-computer savy types should stay away from the processor reference.

i giggled a little when I read that too. I guess our former QB was a Commodore64 I guess.

beerlover
05-24-2007, 03:22 AM
It is the difference between before 2006 season and after. If QB coach Kubiak was going to give up on him, well then, he must be sucko.

You could make the argument before the 2006 season that DC played for:

1. a poor team
2. with a really bad line
3. in a TERRIBLE scheme in 2005, with almost usuable film.
4. and played pretty good in the beginning of 2004
5. and had bad coaching

After the last season, former QB, and QB coach Gary Kubiak felt he knew what he had and gave up on DC. That sense of Carr being able to be coached up went away.


enough excuses already, he didnt work out for reasons pointed out in a 5 minute piece on the NFL Network, Baldinger just told it like it was backing it up with actual game film & the film does not lie (as I stated earlier, way earlier) all of you homer looking through rose colored glasses just cant see the fools gold that is David Carr. now its time to move on, the Texans wasted at least one season with dc now Rick Smith is cleaning up Casserlys mess & I for one am very thankfull to get rid of both of em :)

Texans_Chick
05-24-2007, 08:01 AM
enough excuses already, he didnt work out for reasons pointed out in a 5 minute piece on the NFL Network, Baldinger just told it like it was backing it up with actual game film & the film does not lie (as I stated earlier, way earlier) all of you homer looking through rose colored glasses just cant see the fools gold that is David Carr. now its time to move on, the Texans wasted at least one season with dc now Rick Smith is cleaning up Casserlys mess & I for one am very thankfull to get rid of both of em :)

Hello, read again sir, I'm not giving excuses.

I am explaining why a team mighta kept Carr last season so they could use their first round draft pick on a different position on the team other than QB. And why after the Carr reclamation project failed after working with Kubiak, Carr's value was less.

Before last season, it was reasonable to think that Carr had some value, and that the Texans shouldn't just release him. It might not be what y'all would have done, but I do think in general, it was a conventional football move.

TK_Gamer
05-24-2007, 09:25 AM
I coud get blasted for saying this, but I personally refuse to believe Kubiak did all he could to salvage Carr. I think he just decided early on that he had too many flaws to fix. wich is fine, he's the coach. A few bad habits can be fixed over time. A guy who's virtually flawed throughout his whole skillset from compounded coaching/confidence problems? Kubiak probably did the right thing for the team. I don't really think he wanted the Carr project though.

Texan_Bill
05-24-2007, 09:33 AM
Teams give up 1st round picks...multiple 2nd rounders and first day picks in general for guys you just described...but it is curious that nobody signed Carr to come in and start even though they didn't have to give up any compensation at all.

Vinny, Vinny, Vinny... you have such a slick way of wording things for effect's sake.....

Teams would have signed Carr to come in and compete for a job or at the very least, be a back up in the right situation with the sole intention of him being a starter in the near future......ummmmmm, Carolina... I beleive Carr was unemployed for all of what - two weeks?!?! Do you really.... honestly think Carr will be sitting on the bench next season?!?

real
05-24-2007, 09:34 AM
I coud get blasted for saying this, but I personally refuse to believe Kubiak did all he could to salvage Carr. I think he just decided early on that he had too many flaws to fix. wich is fine, he's the coach. A few bad habits can be fixed over time. A guy who's virtually flawed throughout his whole skillset from compounded coaching/confidence problems? Kubiak probably did the right thing for the team. I don't really think he wanted the Carr project though.

I dunno. I think initially Kubiak thought he could work with Carr, but my guess is that by the first Tenessee game he had all but given up on him.

real
05-24-2007, 09:35 AM
Vin Do you really.... honestly think Carr will be sitting on the bench next season?!?

Hopefully not.

Hopefully he starts against us.

real
05-24-2007, 09:39 AM
If David starts against us (which I doubt) we'll find out what all he has in the heart category.

Texan_Bill
05-24-2007, 09:41 AM
I coud get blasted for saying this, but I personally refuse to believe Kubiak did all he could to salvage Carr. I think he just decided early on that he had too many flaws to fix. wich is fine, he's the coach. A few bad habits can be fixed over time. A guy who's virtually flawed throughout his whole skillset from compounded coaching/confidence problems? Kubiak probably did the right thing for the team. I don't really think he wanted the Carr project though.

I agree.... I think Kubes, at a point, also realized that there would be way too much baggage to overcome, as Carrs time in Houston was done...

Texan_Bill
05-24-2007, 09:42 AM
This is where people mistake me for a Carr pimp, because if he plays against us, I hope he is in a very familiar position.... on his back... OFTEN!

HuttoKarl
05-24-2007, 10:07 AM
Pentium 2, niice....Anyone still run a P-2. My guess is that non-computer savy types should stay away from the processor reference.

It's better than the hamster in the wheel chasing a grape that some former Texan QB may have been processing thru.

Texan_Bill
05-24-2007, 10:29 AM
It's better than the hamster in the wheel chasing a grape that some former Texan QB may have been processing thru.

*scratches head*

HOU-TEX
05-24-2007, 11:16 AM
Funny, not too much discussion on these comments. Whatever.

:coffee:

I find it humerous that you're using quotes from Rod Woodson and some host to prove what ever point it is you're attempting to make.:tomato:

HuttoKarl
05-24-2007, 11:27 AM
*scratches head*


Scratches nethers.

beerlover
05-24-2007, 11:49 AM
Hello, read again sir, I'm not giving excuses.

I am explaining why a team mighta kept Carr last season so they could use their first round draft pick on a different position on the team other than QB. And why after the Carr reclamation project failed after working with Kubiak, Carr's value was less.

Before last season, it was reasonable to think that Carr had some value, and that the Texans shouldn't just release him. It might not be what y'all would have done, but I do think in general, it was a conventional football move.

yes ma'am.

I'm not going to revisit this debate, its a done deal & time to move on conventional football move or not, my single point is Kubiak could not do this alone. I'm convinced if the hiring had been reversed & Casserly was gone post 05/06 season history would be rewritten per David Carr.

Texan_Bill
05-24-2007, 11:56 AM
Scratches nethers.

*laughs, but still isnt exactly sure what that other post meant*

HOU-TEX
05-24-2007, 12:01 PM
*laughs, but still isnt exactly sure what that other post meant*

LOL! I think he was basically saying that our previous QBs brain produced as much as a hamster in an exercise wheel (what ever they're called). In other words, he's clueless.:cool:

alphajoker
05-24-2007, 12:05 PM
It amazes me that these discussions still take place. I thought we, as fans, were through with this. Guess I was wrong.

Texan_Bill
05-24-2007, 12:09 PM
LOL! I think he was basically saying that our previous QBs brain produced as much as a hamster in an exercise wheel (what ever they're called). In other words, he's clueless.:cool:

Okay.... Thanks.... LOL!!!

HOU-TEX
05-24-2007, 12:21 PM
Okay.... Thanks.... LOL!!!

After scrolling through the smilies I found what he was talking about. lol:wheel:

Texan_Bill
05-24-2007, 12:24 PM
After scrolling through the smilies I found what he was talking about. lol:wheel:

Very Nice!!! :shades:

Vinny
05-24-2007, 12:31 PM
Vinny, Vinny, Vinny... you have such a slick way of wording things for effect's sake.....

Teams would have signed Carr to come in and compete for a job or at the very least, be a back up in the right situation with the sole intention of him being a starter in the near future......ummmmmm, Carolina... I beleive Carr was unemployed for all of what - two weeks?!?! Do you really.... honestly think Carr will be sitting on the bench next season?!?
I just type my thoughts......and, yeah I don't think he will start unless Jake is injured. I honestly don't think he is that good a QB....all these posts aren't just an act...that's what I honestly believe, and frankly, I've been right about this for a while. De Nile isn't just a river in Egypt pards. :user:

Second Honeymoon
05-24-2007, 12:32 PM
Vinny, Vinny, Vinny... you have such a slick way of wording things for effect's sake.....

Teams would have signed Carr to come in and compete for a job or at the very least, be a back up in the right situation with the sole intention of him being a starter in the near future......ummmmmm, Carolina... I beleive Carr was unemployed for all of what - two weeks?!?! Do you really.... honestly think Carr will be sitting on the bench next season?!?


Barring an injury to Delhomme, Yes.

Miami, Detroit, Oakland, Minnesota, and Cleveland ALL passed on our former QB as their starter. It came down to Seattle and Carolina as a backup. No one wanted our former QB as a starter. Take that for what its worth and take that as a TRUE measure of our former QB's value around the league. People can rationalize his performance and his struggles all they want but Vinny is right in what he said. There are a lot of crappy starting QBs in this league and our little primadonna former QB didn't get the nod over ANY of them. Not opinion, its fact.

OzzO
05-24-2007, 01:27 PM
It amazes me that these discussions still take place. I thought we, as fans, were through with this. Guess I was wrong.

Not till the season starts. Even then it'll be some time into the season to get through the "told ya so's" whichever side of the fence they may come from.

Oh, and thanks to H.E. 34 for the transcript above. I'd give some rep, but I've gotta spread it.

Brando
05-24-2007, 01:27 PM
I just type my thoughts......and, yeah I don't think he will start unless Jake is injured. I honestly don't think he is that good a QB....all these posts aren't just an act...that's what I honestly believe, and frankly, I've been right about this for a while. De Nile isn't just a river in Egypt pards. :user:

I have to admit I was blinded by DC's talents and I didn't think he was the problem. But suffering through his play last year and the year before I have to admit I was wrong about David Carr. He does not have the feel for the pocket and that is something a QB must have in this league. He couldn't even run a PA Bootleg.:gun:

I was swimming in De Nile.......

It's refreshing to have Matt Scaub as our new QB.

By the way the piece Baldinger did on NFL Network was right on.

TK_Gamer
05-24-2007, 01:50 PM
DC is history and we have a new QB, but I for one would love to see david start a few games in Carolina, then we can close the book on the subject, either he shows us he's the same old DC or he proves everyone wrong, one way or another I'd love to have it over with. sometimes I just don't know. We've watched him go 8 for 10 and drive 85 yards down the field, and we've watched him commit 2 fumbles and sack on one series. we've seen him float passes high on a wide open AJ, and watched him throw a perfect spiral 45 yards up the middle for a touchdown. I dont even think david knows who the real David is lol.

I do know one thing though, if we see him nailing the slot reciever in the seam for 30 yard gains. I'm gonna wonder why we used hardly any 3 wide sets the whole year till they pulled David out.

Specnatz
05-24-2007, 01:53 PM
I have to admit I was blinded by DC's talents and I didn't think he was the problem. But suffering through his play last year and the year before I have to admit I was wrong about David Carr. He does not have the feel for the pocket and that is something a QB must have in this league. He couldn't even run a PA Bootleg.:gun:

I was swimming in De Nile.......

It's refreshing to have Matt Scaub as our new QB.

By the way the piece Baldinger did on NFL Network was right on.

Reps, because I was there with ya. I blamed Capers more than anything and thought Kubiak would move things in the right direction, but after AJ made it known what the old coaching staff did, I think there was no other choice.


Anyway moving forward. Is it Trainning camp time yet?

Second Honeymoon
05-24-2007, 02:32 PM
I have to admit I was blinded by DC's talents and I didn't think he was the problem. But suffering through his play last year and the year before I have to admit I was wrong about David Carr. He does not have the feel for the pocket and that is something a QB must have in this league. He couldn't even run a PA Bootleg.:gun:

I was swimming in De Nile.......

It's refreshing to have Matt Scaub as our new QB.

By the way the piece Baldinger did on NFL Network was right on.

Wario, you weren't the only one. McNair, Casserley, Kubiak and most fans felt the same way, so don't feel too bad.

Yeah, the guy had/has a lot of inherent flaws in his game. Most of it is upstairs but his inability to throw short to medium over the middle was his most obvious shortcoming. When your QB needs to have passing lanes or be rolled out in order to throw most passes, there are problems.

Hopefully Schaub comes in and improves the position. With our youth and athletic ability on defense, we could be make some noise.

The Pencil Neck
05-24-2007, 02:55 PM
I have to admit I was blinded by DC's talents and I didn't think he was the problem. But suffering through his play last year and the year before I have to admit I was wrong about David Carr. He does not have the feel for the pocket and that is something a QB must have in this league. He couldn't even run a PA Bootleg.:gun:


You are not alone. I was vehemently defending Carr from Second Honeymoon and TSIP and a few others last year about this time.

But when you're wrong and you realize you were wrong, you gotta eat your crow. I was wrong.

mmmmMMMmmmmm... crow.

(We need an eating crow smilie.)

Second Honeymoon
05-24-2007, 03:03 PM
You are not alone. I was vehemently defending Carr from Second Honeymoon and TSIP and a few others last year about this time.

But when you're wrong and you realize you were wrong, you gotta eat your crow. I was wrong.

mmmmMMMmmmmm... crow.

(We need an eating crow smilie.)

no need to eat crow. you had nothing to do with the decision to draft or resign Carr. your a fan supporting your team and its moves.

fwiw - i remember saying that I thought Kolb was a 3rd or 4th round pick to you and others, boy, I was wrong about that one....but I aint eating crow over it, it was the Eagles decision, not mine :cowboy1:

Specnatz
05-24-2007, 03:47 PM
no need to eat crow. you had nothing to do with the decision to draft or resign Carr. your a fan supporting your team and its moves.

fwiw - i remember saying that I thought Kolb was a 3rd or 4th round pick to you and others, boy, I was wrong about that one....but I aint eating crow over it, it was the Eagles decision, not mine :cowboy1:

I think I was leading the Kolb, praise parade. Of course it will come down to coaching and his progression with that.

infantrycak
05-24-2007, 09:48 PM
Here is the video. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMd3FdudDH0)

TEXANS84
05-24-2007, 10:01 PM
Here is the video. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMd3FdudDH0)

Oh, that is absoultley beautiful. THANK YOU NFLN!

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
05-24-2007, 10:15 PM
"He processes information so quickly as opposed to David Carr who had no ability to make good decisions."


:fans:

Vinny
05-24-2007, 10:18 PM
Here is the video. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMd3FdudDH0)thanks...to gp and infantrycak. I just saved it to my favorites :heart:

Tulip
05-24-2007, 10:24 PM
That was a good video. Real comparison and analysis instead of oversimplified hyperbole? How odd.

Now if I could just remember where to find that NFL films clip of the Falcons/Patriots game...

infantrycak
05-24-2007, 11:42 PM
Somebody needs to repost a link to the 56 yd Peerless Price TD against the Eagles. It was a textbook on things Carr never did with an OL breaking down. In 5 years of Carr clips you won't find one as good as that play.

Second Honeymoon
05-25-2007, 12:33 AM
Somebody needs to repost a link to the 56 yd Peerless Price TD against the Eagles. It was a textbook on things Carr never did with an OL breaking down. In 5 years of Carr clips you won't find one as good as that play.

This clip is against the Bengals. Look like a 50+ yard TD in the air to Peerless Price. Look at how he keeps looking downfield while he moves, something our former QB never showed. I can try and look for the clip vs. the eagles. Clips from the Patriots game would be nice too. 3 TDs v. the Patriots was pretty much the header on his resume.

http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?vid=1096084148&fr=yfp-t-501

It would be nice if he didnt wear #8 but you can watch video of Schaub and he looks nothing like our former QB. His body language, throwing motion and mechanics/footwork make it pretty obvious that it isnt our former QB.

I can't wait for the season to start. If we don't get hit too hard by the injury bug we could really do some great things this year.

Infantrycak, thanks for the link to the NFLN vivisection of our former QB's game. Lombardi just hammered the guy and Baldinger wasn't exactly giving Carr rave reviews either. Me and my gfriend watched it and she was like, 'you have been saying that same stuff for years'. I rolled my eyes and said 'yeah this isn't ESPN. these guys actually do research half the time'. I did respect what Woodson had to say because Schaub would be well served if Green and Co. can help establish a running game....but that is the case with any QB.

alphajoker
05-25-2007, 09:31 AM
Here is the video. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMd3FdudDH0)

Thanks for the link...I didn't think I was going to be able to see it.

real
05-25-2007, 09:49 AM
Didn't see it live...thatnks for the link cak...

and oh yeah.....David Carr is terrible....

cuppacoffee
05-25-2007, 10:23 AM
I find it humerous that you're using quotes from Rod Woodson and some host to prove what ever point it is you're attempting to make.:tomato:



I was only pointing out the fact that the anti-Carr posters were 'cherry picking' comments from the transcript.

Posters using the comments from that same host that agree with their thinking, and ignoring the comments that don't necessarily support their arguments.

I am not at all suprised that the point that I was making was 'over' your head..:um:

I am not at all saying that releasing Carr was the wrong move for the team to make.

I am not saying that I will not support our new QB.

I am saying that the mob mentality in bashing Carr is wrong.

But I am sure that is over your head also.

That is the best I can do to dumb it down for you..:wacko:

:coffee:

real
05-25-2007, 10:33 AM
I am saying that the mob mentality in bashing Carr is wrong.

:coffee:

LOL....

Why is it wrong ? Because it's a guy that you cut for ?

Just suppose for a second that all of us lunatic 'carr bashers' are correct...Suppose Carr really is bad...Suppose the mob mentailty that some have against our line is way off base...(yeah you wanna complain about wrongful mob mentality just look at how our line is treated)

Suppose you don't get any of that and it all goes over your head....

Let me dumb it down for you....

Suppose we're right about Carr and all we ever really wanted to see was quality football and felt like Carr was part of the obstacle in keeping us from doing so....Just think for a second, "what if Carr really does suck?" all the while you were one of the main propenents of keeping him here...How would you feel about the 'mob mentality' then ?

HOU-TEX
05-25-2007, 10:34 AM
I was only pointing out the fact that the anti-Carr posters were 'cherry picking' comments from the transcript.

Posters using the comments from that same host that agree with their thinking, and ignoring the comments that don't necessarily support their arguments.

I am not at all suprised that the point that I was making was 'over' your head..:um:

I am not at all saying that releasing Carr was the wrong move for the team to make.

I am not saying that I will not support our new QB.

I am saying that the mob mentality in bashing Carr is wrong.

But I am sure that is over your head also.

That is the best I can do to dumb it down for you..:wacko:

:coffee:

No need to dumb it down cupojoe. I can handle it. The only comments that didn't necessarily support their arguement were from Rod Woodson and the host. Maybe you think Woodson's commentary is worth listening to, I don't. He's no better than someone like a Salisbury from espn.

BTW, I don't think I insulted your intelligence with my post. Why do you insult mine.:cool:

cuppacoffee
05-25-2007, 10:39 AM
They are interesting comments, because after five seasons and 70+ NFL starts, even the experts are still not sure what to make out of David Carr.

Very true. We won't know until Carr gets a fresh start with another team.

Chances are he will end up being the backup in Carolina until the team gets a feel on his abilities, or the lack of.

I just fail to understand how so-called Texan fans can spend so much energy vilifying the guy. :dangit:

He was our QB since the inception of the team. I am sure he did the best he could under the circumstances he was put in.

As far as signing the extention, which seems to have the detractors panties in a wad, anyone in his position would have done the same thing.


:coffee:

real
05-25-2007, 10:44 AM
Very true. We won't know until Carr gets a fresh start with another team.

Chances are he will end up being the backup in Carolina until the team gets a feel on his abilities, or the lack of.

I just fail to understand how so-called Texan fans can spend so much energy vilifying the guy. :dangit:

He was our QB since the inception of the team. I am sure he did the best he could under the circumstances he was put in.

As far as signing the extention, which seems to have the detractors panties in a wad, anyone in his position would have done the same thing.


:coffee:

I don't understand how a Texan fan can spend so much time protecting the guy...

Nobody vilifies him...We say he was terrible (which is true) then guys like you say No he wasn't (which is not true)....Then an argument like this one ensues...If there was no one to argue with then arguments wouldn't occur...

The Pencil Neck
05-25-2007, 10:53 AM
Very true. We won't know until Carr gets a fresh start with another team.

Chances are he will end up being the backup in Carolina until the team gets a feel on his abilities, or the lack of.

I just fail to understand how so-called Texan fans can spend so much energy vilifying the guy. :dangit:

He was our QB since the inception of the team. I am sure he did the best he could under the circumstances he was put in.

As far as signing the extention, which seems to have the detractors panties in a wad, anyone in his position would have done the same thing.


:coffee:

Well, last year about this time, I spent about the same amount of energy defending him. I felt like he needed the chance to show what he could or could not do. But that's the point, I think we really learned what he was made of last year.

Using words like "mob" and "herd" in some other posts, you make it sound like this is some unreasoning knee-jerk reaction from a bunch of guys that HATE David Carr and don't care how he played. But that's not true. A lot of people jumped onto the anti-Carr bandwagon last year because they realized that he's really a bad QB. That has nothing to do with how hard he's trying or whether he's a good guy. I don't want someone that's a bad QB playing QB for my team. For me, this isn't about his extension or his character or his personality or his looks, it's purely about his inability to play at even a moderate level.

And everything in this discussion is magnified because the arguments have been going back and forth on this board for years about whether the problem was Carr or the problem was the Coaching or the problem was everyone else on the team. I think the problem started with Capers. I think Carr's development was hamstrung because of his experience with Capers. And now I think he's damaged goods from a football performance standpoint.

Honoring Earl 34
05-25-2007, 10:56 AM
just fail to understand how so-called Texan fans can spend so much energy vilifying the guy.

I think that a lot of folks on this board thought what Baldinger showed . This started years ago for the record . This is nothing new , you know that because you argued the other way .

So if your QB stinks it's hard for your team to win ... oh but wait the owner really likes him and the GM is trying to save face because he drafted him .... so we have just been sentenced to NFL laughing stock . This Carr situation was like getting an 8 ounce cup of coffee and putting 4 packets of sweet n low in it ... way to sweet ( Pa and son gettingf haircuts for example ) .

The national perception is , we draft Okoye and get reamed for not taking a LT . Most media guys dog the OL because of Carr ... finally it comes out that these guys are'nt that bad .

So why do you take up for Carr instead of Pitts , Salaam , McKinney , and Winston ? Why do you pick this one player ... I support what's best for the team and have my favorites like everyone else but if they were bad ... they would'nt be my favorite player .

cuppacoffee
05-25-2007, 11:01 AM
No need to dumb it down cupojoe. I can handle it. The only comments that didn't necessarily support their arguement were from Rod Woodson and the host. Maybe you think Woodson's commentary is worth listening to, I don't. He's no better than someone like a Salisbury from espn.

BTW, I don't think I insulted your intelligence with my post. Why do you insult mine.:cool:

Because you threw a tomoto at me...:shrug:.. :D

Your answer explains my position.

You/others discount Woodsons and Salisburys intelligence. These guys played the game for several years. They are not as clueless as posters here would have you believe.

Just because you or anyone else doesn't agree with them doesn't make you right and them wrong.

The few good things that ESPN says about the team, the posters here run with them, the things that are not complementary is referred to by these same posters as bs. More cherry picking. Is the only commentator that has any sense the one who mirrors yours/my thinking?

Carrs gone...Shaub is here....thats good. Best thing that could happen for the Texans. I don't need to bash Carr to make myself feel good. I feel better defending the guy.

We all have opinions. I am just set enough in mine to not let myself be shouted down.

Thanks for the measured response.


:coffee:

Vinny
05-25-2007, 11:23 AM
coffee...most of us don't care about the Panthers so we don't care about his future prospects...we just care about the Texans and how we will go forward...if you want gloss about Carr and how he excites some fans....you should go to the Panthers web sites now. He plays for them now. I think Hulk has set up camp there.

cuppacoffee
05-25-2007, 11:46 AM
I think that a lot of folks on this board thought what Baldinger showed . This started years ago for the record . This is nothing new , you know that because you argued the other way .

So if your QB stinks it's hard for your team to win ... oh but wait the owner really likes him and the GM is trying to save face because he drafted him .... so we have just been sentenced to NFL laughing stock . This Carr situation was like getting an 8 ounce cup of coffee and putting 4 packets of sweet n low in it ... way to sweet ( Pa and son gettingf haircuts for example ) .

The national perception is , we draft Okoye and get reamed for not taking a LT . Most media guys dog the OL because of Carr ... finally it comes out that these guys are'nt that bad .

So why do you take up for Carr instead of Pitts , Salaam , McKinney , and Winston ? Why do you pick this one player ... I support what's best for the team and have my favorites like everyone else but if they were bad ... they would'nt be my favorite player .


National perception will not change until we start winning games, Carr or no Carr. And do you really care about national perception. Would you rather get the attention that Cinn. and Atl. are getting at the moment?

The players you named are still with the team. They are not being criticized to the extreme that Carr is.

When McKinney or any of the ones you named are released, do you think they will recieve all the hatred that has been bestowed on Carr?

And no, it hasn't been proven that "these guys aren't that bad". I hope that is the case though.

Is it Carrs fault that the owner "liked him" and offered him an extention.

Tell me you wouldn't have taken it if you were Carr.

Why in the hell does it bother you or anyone else that Carr got a haircut? That just sounds so petty. Jeeze.

But if I were to sit idly by while all the trashing goes on then that would be the same as agreeing.

I criticized the release of Seth Wand, I was talking up Brad Kerkerkerkerker as much as I could when he was here.

When all the Matt Stevens bashing was going on, I did not participate. Never.

I can't remember ever criticizing any Texan draft pick. I don't know if Okoye was a good choice or not. Only time will tell that.

I am not blind to the shortcomings of our team/players, but I will leave the bashing and namecalling to the trolls who frequent here.

And Carr has never been my favorite player....that dubious distinction goes to Kalie Wong. Always upbeat and a refreshing player to listen to in his interviews. Very well spoken.

Looks like I will have to choose another now.


:coffee:

The Pencil Neck
05-25-2007, 11:52 AM
You/others discount Woodsons and Salisburys intelligence. These guys played the game for several years. They are not as clueless as posters here would have you believe.

Just because you or anyone else doesn't agree with them doesn't make you right and them wrong.

As soon as you see ESPN or NFLN do a feature on how good Carr was with the Texans and how the problem was with the offensive line and lack of open receivers and they actually use game tape to back up their arguments instead of just making a blanket "everyone knows this is the problem" statement, then let us know and we'll discuss that.

I was actually very surprised at Baldinger's report because in the past, Baldinger was one of those guys who really trashed us for not giving Carr enough time or weapons. In the past, we was just like Woodson and Salisbury and he always ticked me off with the assumptions that he made.

You can come to an opinion on someone's knowledge and credibility by listening to their opinions over time. Woodson is good for a laugh occasionally but he's not high on my list of respected opinions. Salisbury is very LOW on my list of respected opinions; I expect to disagree with him as soon as he opens his mouth. There are other guys I respect who have dogged the Texans for our line woes but I really think they're just following the herd, I don't think they're actually looking at the tape to make their opinions. I think if more of them actually looked at the tape, they'd come to the same conclusions that Baldinger did.

Honoring Earl 34
05-25-2007, 11:54 AM
Is it Carrs fault that the owner "liked him" and offered him an extention.

Tell me you wouldn't have taken it if you were Carr.


I guess the thing with Carr is it's not just Carr it's his relative posse . I would dare say from reading past post from his family members that they tried to coach him some which was a problem ... to many chefs spoil the broth ... you just don't get so involved with your son the pro QB .

Anyway I'm just glad it's over and I posted this more as a pro Schaub thread than another anti-Carr thread .

Specnatz
05-25-2007, 11:57 AM
Coffee, people spend the same amount of time villifying Carr as they do Capers and Casserly, because that era of the Texans is not a pretty picture. Yeah carr gets some bashing because it is more about building up Schaub and to color the furure all rosie.

As far as the women in the piece goes, typical sports now a days, get a piece of eye candy for the guys to look at and hope it distracts them long enough to realize niether she nor half of the announcers have a clue of what they are saying. She did not get her job because of her football IQ, where as these networks could actualy find woman who are attractive and have a football IQ, but no they rather have these diwitts for what ever reason.

Second Honeymoon
05-25-2007, 12:03 PM
Very true. We won't know until Carr gets a fresh start with another team.

Chances are he will end up being the backup in Carolina until the team gets a feel on his abilities, or the lack of.

I just fail to understand how so-called Texan fans can spend so much energy vilifying the guy. :dangit:

He was our QB since the inception of the team. I am sure he did the best he could under the circumstances he was put in.
As far as signing the extention, which seems to have the detractors panties in a wad, anyone in his position would have done the same thing.


:coffee:

that is where we differ. I don't think he did the best he could. Our former QB has admitted as much himself in his quotes since joining the Panthers. his work ethic and commitment to football was iffy at best...

being condescending to your fellow posters will get you nowhere. you were wrong about carr and you need to deal with it. we don't call you out but for some reason you feel it is necessary to defend Carr and make excuses for him even after he was fired. You do realize he is no longer with the Texans right? was that over YOUR head? then you try and demean those who saw the writing on the wall while you were still blowing sweet nothings in Carr's direction. i just don't get it man. Carr isn't a Texan anymore. What has he done to merit such undying blind loyalty from you? It sure as hell wasn't anything he did on the football field.

i guess some people like you have a hard time admitting they were wrong and showing some freaking class. please migrate to the Panthers board with the rest of the yokels and you pontificate on Carr over there. We don't want to hear it anymore.

Double Barrel
05-25-2007, 12:04 PM
Very true. We won't know until Carr gets a fresh start with another team.

Chances are he will end up being the backup in Carolina until the team gets a feel on his abilities, or the lack of.

I just fail to understand how so-called Texan fans can spend so much energy vilifying the guy. :dangit:

He was our QB since the inception of the team. I am sure he did the best he could under the circumstances he was put in.

As far as signing the extention, which seems to have the detractors panties in a wad, anyone in his position would have done the same thing.


:coffee:


I understand your points, even if I don't necessarily agree with them. There does seem to be a tendency to see some redundant points about our previous QB, and unfortunately, it's tough to have a good analytical conversation about our current QB without it devolving into another "Carr thread".

However, until we get a season of evaluating Schaub, I suppose it's tough not to reflect upon the only starting QB that we've ever had the past five seasons. And it is a fine line between discussing X's & O's and vilifying the guy. Personally, I wish any Carr talk was solely in the realm of what he did/didn't do on the field, because his personal life/haircut/etc. is of no consequence to me (and any discussion of DC's practice habits are pure speculation at this point).

I actually had optimism that any DC talk would be relegated to the NFL section of the forum when he was cut, but I was a little delusional in that optimism (i.e. I should've known better!).

beerlover
05-25-2007, 12:17 PM
coffee...most of us don't care about the Panthers so we don't care about his future prospects...we just care about the Texans and how we will go forward...if you want gloss about Carr and how he excites some fans....you should go to the Panthers web sites now. He plays for them now. I think Hulk has set up camp there.

look I'm as big of fan of a good cup of coffee as the next guy but when its weak its weak. if you have to move on to another region to get that rich, roasty balance you no longer achieve here you do it.

good luck to you in Carolina :coffee:

Porky
05-25-2007, 12:19 PM
I'm just so ready for this season to start so we can begin evualating Schaub. I'm sure Schaub will be better in 2008 than in 2007, but we can surely evualate our QB play vs the previous one and be able to for once and for all place the blame where it belongs. I'm thinking it's not all one person/thing. If this were a recipe, I would say we had 2 parts poor coaching/scheme, 3 parts poor o-line (and other blockers) play, and 4 parts of poor QBing play. It's rarely a total either/or type situation.

Once we see what we have in Schaub, let's all make our final conclusions and then let's put the Carr talk to bed, and move on. It's a new day in Texans land. I prefer to look forward at this point, especially once we have a few games under our belt.

Somehow I think these words will ring about as hollow as Rosie O'donnell on a diet. :pirate: :devilpig:

cuppacoffee
05-25-2007, 12:24 PM
coffee...most of us don't care about the Panthers so we don't care about his future prospects...we just care about the Texans and how we will go forward...if you want gloss about Carr and how he excites some fans....you should go to the Panthers web sites now. He plays for them now. I think Hulk has set up camp there.



Wrong Vinny..."we" don't just care about the Texans.

If we just care about the Texans then why are we so obsessed with all things Carr.

I never bring up Carrs name except to reply to the many detractors posts.

I don't come here posting about anything Carr is doing in Carolina.

Some Texan fans don't want to go forward, many just want to regurgitate anything they can find negative about Carr.

You identified Carrs shortcomings long before most on this site. You were eventually proven right. But I never thought for a moment that you would go to the "hate" extreme.

Humm..I am still looking for where I said he "excites" some fans.

And I certainly don't know when I glossed about Carr. I never said he had proven anything. I just maintain that he never had a chance.

So you are suggesting that if I don't choose to join the "Carr sucks" club that I cannot be a Texan fan, that I should be a Panthers fan?
(no smiley available for how I would like to respond to that)

You are a big SEC fan....Maybe you should just go to the SEC web sites.


:coffee:

infantrycak
05-25-2007, 12:26 PM
Great, so now the Carr debate has devolved into a debate over how to debate Carr. AAAACK

real
05-25-2007, 12:29 PM
Wrong Vinny..."we" don't just care about the Texans.

If we just care about the Texans then why are we so obsessed with all things Carr.

I never bring up Carrs name except to reply to the many detractors posts.

I don't come here posting about anything Carr is doing in Carolina.

Some Texan fans don't want to go forward, many just want to regurgitate anything they can find negative about Carr.

You identified Carrs shortcomings long before most on this site. You were eventually proven right. But I never thought for a moment that you would go to the "hate" extreme.

Humm..I am still looking for where I said he "excites" some fans.

And I certainly don't know when I glossed about Carr. I never said he had proven anything. I just maintain that he never had a chance.

So you are suggesting that if I don't choose to join the "Carr sucks" club that I cannot be a Texan fan, that I should be a Panthers fan?
(no smiley available for how I would like to respond to that)

You are a big SEC fan....Maybe you should just go to the SEC web sites.


:coffee:


So we as fans don't have a right to think our former QB was bad ?

Do we not have the right to be optimistic and hopeful about better QB play ?

Do we not have the right to think out team is better off with Schaub behind center ?

You are full of it....

No one attacked Carr on a personal level, or has said anything about his life outside of football...The only time his name is brought up is in the context of how he was part of the problem and held us back...If you don't agree with it then argue your points....

cuppacoffee
05-25-2007, 12:35 PM
Coffee, people spend the same amount of time villifying Carr as they do Capers and Casserly, because that era of the Texans is not a pretty picture. Yeah carr gets some bashing because it is more about building up Schaub and to color the furure all rosie.

As far as the women in the piece goes, typical sports now a days, get a piece of eye candy for the guys to look at and hope it distracts them long enough to realize niether she nor half of the announcers have a clue of what they are saying. She did not get her job because of her football IQ, where as these networks could actualy find woman who are attractive and have a football IQ, but no they rather have these diwitts for what ever reason.

I'm not too sure what you mean...I mentioned Woodson and Salisbury.

But I guess I will just have to let the Carr detractors have a free rein.

I have been unable to get my point across....I am not defending Carrs tenure here as a QB. I never said he was a franchise QB. I only say he never had a chance here, and the constant bombardment of him and his family is uncalled for.

Now I know what a lynch mob in the old west must have been like.


:coffee:

HOU-TEX
05-25-2007, 12:37 PM
Because you threw a tomoto at me...:shrug:.. :D

Your answer explains my position.

You/others discount Woodsons and Salisburys intelligence. These guys played the game for several years. They are not as clueless as posters here would have you believe.

Just because you or anyone else doesn't agree with them doesn't make you right and them wrong.

The few good things that ESPN says about the team, the posters here run with them, the things that are not complementary is referred to by these same posters as bs. More cherry picking. Is the only commentator that has any sense the one who mirrors yours/my thinking?

Carrs gone...Shaub is here....thats good. Best thing that could happen for the Texans. I don't need to bash Carr to make myself feel good. I feel better defending the guy.

We all have opinions. I am just set enough in mine to not let myself be shouted down.

Thanks for the measured response.


:coffee:

Points taken. I might not agree with some, but it's cool.:cool:

LOL! Sorry about the tomatoe.

Did anyone take notice of Baldy right pinky finger? Pretty messed up.

Second Honeymoon
05-25-2007, 01:03 PM
I'm not too sure what you mean...I mentioned Woodson and Salisbury.

But I guess I will just have to let the Carr detractors have a free rein.

I have been unable to get my point across....I am not defending Carrs tenure here as a QB. I never said he was a franchise QB. I only say he never had a chance here, and the constant bombardment of him and his family is uncalled for.

Now I know what a lynch mob in the old west must have been like.


:coffee:

you are blaming everyone else on the team when you say 'Carr never had a chance'. He was given more of a chance than any starting QB in the history of the NFL. 5 years is the most any franchise has ever given a guy with his losing record. please refrain from saying he didnt have a chance because that excuses just doesn't hold water. other QBs do more with less and help elevate the game of the players around him....carr did the opposite

as for the 'constant bombardment' of him and his family, where the hell do you get this stuff? So one dumb redneck poured beer on his wife....boo freaking hoo...she can dry herself off with the piles of cash Carr pilfered from the Texans...no one put a gun to his head an forced him to play for the Texans but from his own quotes, its obvious he doesn't care about or love football...he has his priorities and those priorities made him the abortion of a QB that he currently is.. congratulations choir boy...you are in Act3 of the biggest bust of a QB since Ryan Leaf..what a loser....carr reaped what he sowed....which was nothing..deal with it

turn page dude or go follow the Panthers

Vinny
05-25-2007, 01:08 PM
Wrong Vinny..."we" don't just care about the Texans.

If we just care about the Texans then why are we so obsessed with all things Carr.

I never bring up Carrs name except to reply to the many detractors posts.

I don't come here posting about anything Carr is doing in Carolina.

Some Texan fans don't want to go forward, many just want to regurgitate anything they can find negative about Carr.

You identified Carrs shortcomings long before most on this site. You were eventually proven right. But I never thought for a moment that you would go to the "hate" extreme.

Humm..I am still looking for where I said he "excites" some fans.

And I certainly don't know when I glossed about Carr. I never said he had proven anything. I just maintain that he never had a chance.

So you are suggesting that if I don't choose to join the "Carr sucks" club that I cannot be a Texan fan, that I should be a Panthers fan?
(no smiley available for how I would like to respond to that)

You are a big SEC fan....Maybe you should just go to the SEC web sites.


:coffee:You are an older fan...don't tell me that the Bengals fans didn't talk a long time about Andre Ware or David Klingler...the Browns fans didn't anguish over Tim Couch or the Charger fans didn't grumble about Ryan Leaf for years after they bombed out...it's just what we do as fans. We pick the team apart and the most important position is the QB position...it's just gonna be talked about. Perhaps you should refrain from Texans football talk if you can't deal with the disappointed fans. Some of us aren't real happy that this franchise stuck with a loser this long. That's a half a decade of losing...and it's just not gonna go away in a few months. Go to any forum that has a disappointing QB situation....every team in the NFL has threads like this in them...and more. Not all of us are going to have an unnatural love for a disappointing QB.

Specnatz
05-25-2007, 01:14 PM
I'm not too sure what you mean...I mentioned Woodson and Salisbury.

But I guess I will just have to let the Carr detractors have a free rein.

I have been unable to get my point across....I am not defending Carrs tenure here as a QB. I never said he was a franchise QB. I only say he never had a chance here, and the constant bombardment of him and his family is uncalled for.

Now I know what a lynch mob in the old west must have been like.


:coffee:

I get your point and I mentioned Woodson earlier so I thought I would comment on the woman. As second will testify to, I have defended the bashing of Carr's family as uncool and not right. Also, the harsh language that is tearing the guy down personnaly, but tearing down his play is another matter. Most here are not wanting to lynch carr as a person, but for his lack luster play as a QB. Especially last year.

There are some of us who get your point and have counter points to make which is ok that is what this forum is for.

cuppacoffee
05-25-2007, 06:11 PM
I get your point and I mentioned Woodson earlier so I thought I would comment on the woman. As second will testify to, I have defended the bashing of Carr's family as uncool and not right. Also, the harsh language that is tearing the guy down personnaly, but tearing down his play is another matter. Most here are not wanting to lynch carr as a person, but for his lack luster play as a QB. Especially last year.

There are some of us who get your point and have counter points to make which is ok that is what this forum is for.

Thats what I thought forums were for. But....

How can Second post this idiotic comment?

"as for the 'constant bombardment' of him and his family, where the hell do you get this stuff?"

As Vinny says de nile isn't only a river.

Disagreeing with Second only gets me neg rep.

I guess I should refrain from commenting on his posting.


:coffee:

cuppacoffee
05-25-2007, 06:28 PM
You are an older fan...don't tell me that the Bengals fans didn't talk a long time about Andre Ware or David Klingler...the Browns fans didn't anguish over Tim Couch or the Charger fans didn't grumble about Ryan Leaf for years after they bombed out...it's just what we do as fans. We pick the team apart and the most important position is the QB position...it's just gonna be talked about. Perhaps you should refrain from Texans football talk if you can't deal with the disappointed fans. Some of us aren't real happy that this franchise stuck with a loser this long. That's a half a decade of losing...and it's just not gonna go away in a few months. Go to any forum that has a disappointing QB situation....every team in the NFL has threads like this in them...and more. Not all of us are going to have an unnatural love for a disappointing QB.

I honestly don't know what people do on other teams message boards.

Got a question though..why should I refrain from Texan football talk...anyone who doesn't like me defending Carr can just ignore me.

Do you refrain from this site whenever someone posts something you disagree with?

Do you not reply to posters that you think are wrong in their thinking?

What is your favorite saying. Something along the line that you just "post what you feel and see, sorry if you don't agree."

You make half a decade sound soooo long. We are newbies at the losing game.

Unnatural love? Didn't see that coming from you.

:coffee:

Second Honeymoon
05-25-2007, 06:32 PM
Today's term is constant. Tomorrow's term will be pity party.

cuppacoffee
05-25-2007, 06:50 PM
you are blaming everyone else on the team when you say 'Carr never had a chance'. He was given more of a chance than any starting QB in the history of the NFL. 5 years is the most any franchise has ever given a guy with his losing record. please refrain from saying he didnt have a chance because that excuses just doesn't hold water. other QBs do more with less and help elevate the game of the players around him....carr did the opposite

as for the 'constant bombardment' of him and his family, where the hell do you get this stuff? So one dumb redneck poured beer on his wife....boo freaking hoo...she can dry herself off with the piles of cash Carr pilfered from the Texans...no one put a gun to his head an forced him to play for the Texans but from his own quotes, its obvious he doesn't care about or love football...he has his priorities and those priorities made him the abortion of a QB that he currently is.. congratulations choir boy...you are in Act3 of the biggest bust of a QB since Ryan Leaf..what a loser....carr reaped what he sowed....which was nothing..deal with it

turn page dude or go follow the Panthers

There is always the option to do neither of the things you suggest.

I will turn the page on Carr when you do. How's that for a solution.

I do not originate Carr threads, I only reply to threads bashing him.

When the bashing quits, my defending him will disappear. Try dealing with that.

Simple enough for you, Dude.


:coffee:

Double Barrel
05-25-2007, 06:51 PM
Here is the video. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMd3FdudDH0)


Thanks for the link! It is a good video, and beyond the Carr analysis, I really enjoyed seeing commentary and video on Schaub. Dude looks like he's got a good eye for the game, and a brain that will be able to quickly process his reads and adjustments. Coupled with a great arm and the ability to get passes off under pressure, I've got a lot of blind optimism going into the 2007 season.

Second Honeymoon
05-25-2007, 07:08 PM
There is always the option to do neither of the things you suggest.

I will turn the page on Carr when you do. How's that for a solution.

I do not originate Carr threads, I only reply to threads bashing him.

When the bashing quits, my defending him will disappear. Try dealing with that.

Simple enough for you, Dude.


:coffee:

:sleep:

Kaiser Toro
05-25-2007, 07:11 PM
Upon first glance Schaub does understand that the direction of the ball should be thrown in a forward manner.

Sample A

http://www.timesunion.com/Shared/Graphics/NewsDB/AP/Texans%20Schaub%20Trade%20Football%20f7b00605-4953-437c-96b4-6aaffbee7400_TN.jpg

Unfortunately we could not find one coach who could teach Carr the most fundamental skill for a QB - the forward pass

Sample B

Second Honeymoon
05-25-2007, 08:42 PM
KT, how dare you criticize Carr. your a hater.

Kaiser Toro
05-25-2007, 08:45 PM
KT, how dare you criticize Carr. your a hater.

I cannot wait to see Schaub on the field this year behind center. I am so dern giddy.

Second Honeymoon
05-25-2007, 09:15 PM
I cannot wait to see Schaub on the field this year behind center. I am so dern giddy.

Yup, its gonna be a great thing.

Vinny
05-25-2007, 10:53 PM
I honestly don't know what people do on other teams message boards.

Got a question though..why should I refrain from Texan football talk...anyone who doesn't like me defending Carr can just ignore me.

Do you refrain from this site whenever someone posts something you disagree with?

Do you not reply to posters that you think are wrong in their thinking?

What is your favorite saying. Something along the line that you just "post what you feel and see, sorry if you don't agree."

You make half a decade sound soooo long. We are newbies at the losing game.

Unnatural love? Didn't see that coming from you.

:coffee:
a half a decade is a long time for a football player. The average NFL career isn't even 5 years.

I'm not telling you to leave...it's kinda rhetorical. I just don't understand you guys who seem like bigger fans of a player than they are fans of the team.

Honoring Earl 34
05-25-2007, 11:00 PM
Upon first glance Schaub does understand that the direction of the ball should be thrown in a forward manner.

Sample A

http://www.timesunion.com/Shared/Graphics/NewsDB/AP/Texans%20Schaub%20Trade%20Football%20f7b00605-4953-437c-96b4-6aaffbee7400_TN.jpg

Unfortunately we could not find one coach who could teach Carr the most fundamental skill for a QB - the forward pass

Sample B

That's a version of the statue of liberty ... it's called lady liberty drops her torch .

cuppacoffee
05-25-2007, 11:40 PM
I guess the thing with Carr is it's not just Carr it's his relative posse . I would dare say from reading past post from his family members that they tried to coach him some which was a problem ... to many chefs spoil the broth ... you just don't get so involved with your son the pro QB .

Anyway I'm just glad it's over and I posted this more as a pro Schaub thread than another anti-Carr thread .


I am glad its over too.

Lots of posts here start out with a different purpose in mind and end up as a Carr thread. :D

If everyone could post Schaub threads without bringing in the anti-Carr statements I would be there. I am as pro Schaub as any poster on this board.

I hope Schaub leads our team to the playoffs and beyond.

Why does a person have to hate Carr in order to like Schaub? Thats all I ask.



:coffee:

The Pencil Neck
05-26-2007, 12:24 AM
I am glad its over too.

Lots of posts here start out with a different purpose in mind and end up as a Carr thread. :D

If everyone could post Schaub threads without bringing in the anti-Carr statements I would be there. I am as pro Schaub as any poster on this board.

I hope Schaub leads our team to the playoffs and beyond.

Why does a person have to hate Carr in order to like Schaub? Thats all I ask.



I've said it before, we've just got so much history with that other guy that it's virtually impossible not to bring him into a lot of different threads.

Can you imagine a thread that actually goes for more than 10-15 posts on almost any offensive topic that doesn't touch on the history of our offense in some way? Is there any way to talk about the history of our offense without bringing him up? Is there any way to talk about our future without comparing/contrasting it somehow with our past? There's almost no way to talk about our line or our receivers or the QB position without bringing him into the discussion eventually.

DC is not going to be out of our system and out of our threads until several games into the season and possibly not even then.

Hervoyel
05-26-2007, 01:20 AM
I wholeheartedly support anybody who is coach killing....




Signed,

Clinton Portis



P.S: My statements in no way reflect my personal standing on being a coach killer

Hey, it's his coach. If he wants to kill him then everybody should just shut up and mind their own business.

Also signed,

Clinton Portis

The Pencil Neck
05-26-2007, 01:43 AM
Hey, it's his coach. If he wants to kill him then everybody should just shut up and mind their own business.

Also signed,

Clinton Portis

PS. As long as he kills him in his own house.

WaywardTexanFan
05-26-2007, 12:03 PM
This may have been posted in the original thread. I did not see it and didn't want it to get lost within 10 pages of posts. For everyone that did not see the NFL segment; here it is on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMd3FdudDH0

I think Schaub will do just fine this season. Texans 9-7 this season maybe even 10-6 playoffs would rock but we can cross that bridge when we come to it.

powerfuldragon
05-26-2007, 01:01 PM
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=671358&postcount=134

that's the original post in case anyone's curious.

http://boards.houstontexans.com/forums/thread/26102.aspx
and that's the original post at the new forums.

WaywardTexanFan
05-26-2007, 01:03 PM
My bad! Just trying to pass on info.

powerfuldragon
05-26-2007, 01:04 PM
no worries. i only posted those because i was bored.

hot pickle
05-26-2007, 02:13 PM
i love it... never really realized how open the WR actually were on some plays and david carr decided to tuck it and try to run.... cant wait for the first pre-season game

Porky
05-27-2007, 10:11 AM
For those who want to see it on TV, there is still a small Window. I saw it on Total Access weekly wrap up show yesterday. I just checked, and it's on now (about 9:00 am). It is also on at 10 and 11 CT today. The key piece about Carr starts roughly about 35 minutes in, or maybe a tad later. While GP putting this on youtube is great, it's so much better seeing it on TV. So, if you haven't had the chance to catch it, this morning will be your last chance as far as I know unless it's on tonight sometime as well. :cowboy1:

Leahmic223
08-09-2007, 03:04 AM
Terribly if this is a repost or if it has been discussed already.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMd3FdudDH0

:texflag:

Even though he is still unproven at least we are looking at him playing against NFL defenses and not College ones.

So all those boys saying "Carr's oline was the problem and not him." there is some proof now...

:cowboy1: I'm ready to get this rodeo started!

threetoedpete
08-09-2007, 03:14 AM
Terribly if this is a repost or if it has been discussed already.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMd3FdudDH0

:texflag:

Even though he is still unproven at least we are looking at him playing against NFL defenses and not College ones.

So all those boys saying "Carr's oline was the problem and not him." there is some proof now...

:cowboy1: I'm ready to get this rodeo started!



As long as Ephraim stays upright you gotta prety safe bet there. The proof is going to be in the first three games. They get out the chute 0-3. 1-2.... with a healthy Salaam....I think it will be safe to say your video thesis was flawed.

BSofA04
08-09-2007, 03:36 AM
Great video. It's nice to see someone with an unbiased view compare the two qb's. When I see Schaub's quick decisions over Carr's indecisivness, it really makes me feel good about the upcoming year.

Texanmike02
08-09-2007, 05:19 AM
Board Pessimist Checking in.

Great video. Very accurate analysis if you ask me. I think we're going to find out a lot about this team over the next 6 months. Where we have been. I don't think that Schaub will do well early on to be honest. I expect him to struggle the first few weeks. I do think it will all "click" about midway through the season. That's why I have us at 6-7 wins. I am excited about him though. I was pretty vocal about wanting him (before the boards merged) and am definitely eager to see what we've got. One thing's for sure this is gonna be one hell of a year.

His decision making is great. He's got an arm, though not a rocket he has nice touch (as opposed to the dog handler who throws a 90mph fast ball to a receiver 5 yards down the field) and from what I've seen he throws a very catchable ball. I didn't know he was as athletic as they made him sound though. I'll be watching to see.

On DC real quick. His decision making has gotten worse as he's been here. I think a fresh start will be great for him. I think like they said he needs a year to decompress and get his head straight. He needs to fall into the right situation, which I think he did in Carolina. I'm not a big Delhome (sp?) guy really. I think his success has been mostly off the run game and the fact that he has some incredible receivers. This much is for sure, Carr is much more physically gifted than Delhome. This is probably his last shot at an NFL job though so he really needs to hit the film room. I am interested to see how he looks in the preseason as he should get quite a bit of work.

Mike

ObsiWan
08-09-2007, 05:25 AM
This spot was aired on NFL Network sometime after we traded for Schaub. Over on the HT.com msg board this generated a great deal of debate when it was posted there back in late May.
.....go figure :)
Texans Chick will fondly recall the replies she got when she wrote about this clip on her blog. The Carolina fans were not pleased. :pirate:

I just don't want to see another, "let's bash ole Dave one last time" thread
:bat:

ObsiWan
08-09-2007, 05:37 AM
Board Pessimist Checking in.

Great video. Very accurate analysis if you ask me. I think we're going to find out a lot about this team over the next 6 months. Where we have been. I don't think that Schaub will do well early on to be honest. I expect him to struggle the first few weeks. I do think it will all "click" about midway through the season. That's why I have us at 6-7 wins. I am excited about him though. I was pretty vocal about wanting him (before the boards merged) and am definitely eager to see what we've got. One thing's for sure this is gonna be one hell of a year.

His decision making is great. He's got an arm, though not a rocket he has nice touch (as opposed to the dog handler who throws a 90mph fast ball to a receiver 5 yards down the field) and from what I've seen he throws a very catchable ball. I didn't know he was as athletic as they made him sound though. I'll be watching to see.

On DC real quick. His decision making has gotten worse as he's been here. I think a fresh start will be great for him. I think like they said he needs a year to decompress and get his head straight. He needs to fall into the right situation, which I think he did in Carolina. I'm not a big Delhome (sp?) guy really. I think his success has been mostly off the run game and the fact that he has some incredible receivers. This much is for sure, Carr is much more physically gifted than Delhome. This is probably his last shot at an NFL job though so he really needs to hit the film room. I am interested to see how he looks in the preseason as he should get quite a bit of work.

Mike

That's an interesting comment. Tuesday on NFLN's Total Access, Terrell Davis was the jock host. The other guy, Fran something, kept asking T.D. if Jake Delhomme should be "looking over his shoulder" because Carr's after his job. T.D. flatly said, "No." He said that Carr "...doesn't want Jake's job. David Carr needs a break from being 'The Face of the Franchise'. Carr needs a year off to clear his head, refresh and recharge. David Carr is quite happy right now being the backup."

I would think that guys, like T.D., who have been in that environment can tell when a guy is toeing the company line by "saying the right things" or is genuinely glad to be collecting his checks for just holding the clipboard.

Thorn
08-09-2007, 08:51 AM
I've made my opinion known about Schwab. I'll change it if he proves me wrong. I guess we'll all see what's what this coming Saturday evening.

HJam72
08-09-2007, 08:53 AM
I've seen this before, because it's been posted before, quite a while back; but, I'm sure a lot of people still haven't and it was worth seeing again.

I usually like Rod Smith's commentary, and always respected his game when he played, but I don't know how he can watch that Baldinger video and still doubt that the Texans made the right move.

I like the comment somebody made about Carr getting worse as time went on. That's how I've felt about him since the Denver game in '04--although I kept thinking he was about to come back around.

PS-You must spread some reputation around before giving it to APPARENTLY MOST OF THE POSTERS IN THIS THREAD, LOL.

HOU-TEX
08-09-2007, 09:57 AM
I've made my opinion known about Schwab. I'll change it if he proves me wrong. I guess we'll all see what's what this coming Saturday evening.

Yeah, let's determine if Schaub's the real deal or not with one pre-season game. :sarcasm:

YKW got 5 years! Can't we give Schaub at least a couple 2 or 3? :wild:

bigbrewster2000
08-09-2007, 10:19 AM
Just where is this unbiased view your talking about? Before you put your money down, wait until you him behind our famous line. Or you can squeal about selective cuts of Schaub and Carr and claim him as king.

Still trying to figure out the purpose of your post. If you don't think it was unbiased explain. Give at least one example. That would be great. And where is the bias view that you apparently see.

Just because Baldinger points out flaws in Carr does not automatically mean he is biased to Schaub. The proof is in the pudding. We all watched the games last year, and in my opinion they could have taken about 25 more clips of Carr dropping into the fetal position when it was not neccesary to drive the point home but what would be the purpose of that? Or the 7 or 8 times he fumbled the ball because he was slinging it around in the pocket instead of protecting it with 2 hands. There are countless things they could have shown that they did not. I say unbiased.

No one is annointing Schaub king yet but it is not going too far out on a limb to say that he will probably play better than Carr did last year regardless of what you think about the line.

Have a great day Troll.

Chance_C
08-09-2007, 10:56 AM
Well brewster, Here one. We saw Schaub at his best, never miss a pass, and a great run. Carr who had the better pass comp rating, never made a completion, and was sack, got to see that twice. Reminded me of an info-commercial that shows late at night

I think you should change your name to CARRy, not caddy, or did you just spell it wrong?

Double Barrel
08-09-2007, 11:04 AM
Terribly if this is a repost or if it has been discussed already.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMd3FdudDH0

:texflag:


We had a 10 page thread about this very subject back in May:

Schaub NFL network (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38777&highlight=NFL+NETWORK+BALDINGER+DAVID+CARR)

Merged accordingly. :howdy:

Leahmic223
08-09-2007, 01:01 PM
As long as he doesn't fumble and it looks like he has confidence about getting hit.

On that first play where the show Carr in the bootleg and he tries to float it to the endzone with a defender coming at him...look at his body language, once he throws the ball he just looks relieved like "Now I can't get hit."

I mean this is understandable for a guy that should be pressing some type of charges against the defenses that had the oppurtunity to stack up sack numbers, but he has to have more confidence.

Then they showed Schuab later bracing for the hit, taking the hit and completing a pass... also not our WRs are Better than Atlanta's. Maybe not our TE, not yet at least, but he is going to love throwing it to Johson, and Keenan more.

I think he'll make the Oline good, just the fact that he'll finish his drop and knows where he should go with it. Can't wait for Sat, I wonder how much PT he'll get.

Goldensilence
08-09-2007, 02:22 PM
That's an interesting comment. Tuesday on NFLN's Total Access, Terrell Davis was the jock host. The other guy, Fran something, kept asking T.D. if Jake Delhomme should be "looking over his shoulder" because Carr's after his job. T.D. flatly said, "No." He said that Carr "...doesn't want Jake's job. David Carr needs a break from being 'The Face of the Franchise'. Carr needs a year off to clear his head, refresh and recharge. David Carr is quite happy right now being the backup."

I would think that guys, like T.D., who have been in that environment can tell when a guy is toeing the company line by "saying the right things" or is genuinely glad to be collecting his checks for just holding the clipboard.

Only in bizarro world would anyone legitimately ask this question. Think about this A QB who has helped lead his team to a SUPERBOWL and lost on a last second Vinateri FG. Also had them in the NFC championship game two years ago.Looking at DC career and record....Only for some reason that people don't seem to like Jake Delhomme is anyone asking this question.

Last year didn't go so well for him but when your team's best player out of gates isn't playing and later in the year he had a nagging injury that ended up with him sitting the last part of the season.(if i remember right banged his thumb on a helmet towards the later part of the season on his throwing hand) Chris Weinke reared his head and the rest is history.

Maybe he doesn't bounce back and this year will be an indicator of Jake Delhomme. Personally i think he will. The only way DC gets playing time is if:
1. Jake goes down with injury
2. Jake implodes the first games of the season even with a healthy offense around him
3. DC has an highly EXCEPTIONAL TC and one or two happens.

As for DC himself. A lot of things combining to a "perfect storm". We got a shoddy expanion deal on top of a bad draft class. We definately picked the wrong coach to start off with. Bad drafts combined with a coaching staff's inability to develop players or put them in a position to succeed. No QB coach?! Freaking out once a player goes near 30, release them and replace them with inexperienced lesser talent. All this magnified DC's problems coming out of college. In the end there's plenty of blame to go around for the first 5 years.

But we've learned. We're moving on. We're a much better team and MUCH better coaching staff. I look forward to purging all the bad karma from the past few previous years and on our way to a winning season.