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View Full Version : Texans follow their Bronco Lineage in Draft philosophy


nunusguy
05-12-2007, 10:09 AM
The Denver Broncos used this years 2 top picks on DLine, then took an OLineman with their 3rd rounder. Sound famiar ?
Last year in Kubiaks first year he went D with his first 2 picks (including DLine with the top pick), and this year with sidekick and former Bronco Rick Smith, they went DLine with their #1 again, while drafting OLine in later rounds in both Drafts.
But the comparisons to Denver are easy because they are so obvious in the way they prioritize positions in Draft strategy.

thunderkyss
05-12-2007, 11:05 AM
I don't think we've been drafting based on a "Denver" philosophy..... but more on a best player available/best team fit approach.

If rumors were correct, last year, we would have drafted Reggie Bush with the #1 overall, if he didn't look McNair square in the eye, and lied. Then, we'd have traded up into the 1st to get D'Angelo Williams.

Then this year, the rumor was that we would draft Ted Ginn Jr with the 10th overall pick. But Miami shocked the world, and passed on Quinn to get our reciever.

Then we did use that 2nd round pick to get us a QB.

nunusguy
05-12-2007, 11:44 AM
I don't think we've been drafting based on a "Denver" philosophy..... but more on a best player available/best team fit approach.

If rumors were correct, last year, we would have drafted Reggie Bush with the #1 overall, if he didn't look McNair square in the eye, and lied. Then, we'd have traded up into the 1st to get D'Angelo Williams.

Then this year, the rumor was that we would draft Ted Ginn Jr with the 10th overall pick. But Miami shocked the world, and passed on Quinn to get our reciever.

Then we did use that 2nd round pick to get us a QB.
That's preceisly my point. Last year Bush was the top rated player, but as we know the running back position (along with Olinemen) is a step-child in how Kubiak & Smith rank positions. And instead of taking one of the very highly rated OTs with their #2, they took LB Ryans but got lucky with Spencer & Winston still on the Board in the third round.
And this year we could have traded down to get Staley and also probably gotten an extra first day pick (I liked that approach), but they sat on their #10 pick and used it for a DLineman. They eventually drafted OLine, but not until the 5th round !
We can talk about rumors and what they might have done, but we now have some history with 2 Drafts completed since Kubiak got here, and its clear what they have in fact done.

Lucky
05-12-2007, 11:52 AM
Then this year, the rumor was that we would draft Ted Ginn Jr with the 10th overall pick.

I don't think that's true. That rumor came out of the Dolphins organization to justify the Ginn pick. I've seen where the Texans had Okoye rated as the 4th best player on their board, behind Calvin Johnson, Joe Thomas, and Adrian Peterson. If Okoye had been off the board, they may have dealt down to the Giants, who wanted Pitt CB Revis.

Are 2 drafts enough to determine a trend? I don't know. Smith was in the Broncos front office from 2000-2006. Their 1st day picks consisted of:

DB 7
DL 3 (none in the 1st round)
LB 3
RB 3
WR 3
OL 1
QB 1
TE 1

The Broncos selected over twice as many DBs than any other position. But, the Broncos obsession with the defensive secondary hasn't manifested here in Houston, with only a couple of 2nd day picks thus far. If there is a link between the Broncos and what the Texans have done over the past 2 drafts, I'm not seeing it.

thunderkyss
05-12-2007, 12:04 PM
That's preceisly my point. Last year Bush was the top rated player, but as we know the running back position (along with Olinemen) is a step-child in how Kubiak & Smith rank positions.

no, that is not your point. Until he lied, Reggie was the pick. We were going to move up(trade picks) to get a running back late in the first. We targeted two running backs and one wide receiver in the first round for the last two years running.




And instead of taking one of the very highly rated OTs with their #2, they took LB Ryans but got lucky with Spencer & Winston still on the Board in the third round.

You can call it luck if you want. But had we taken an OT in the second, more than likely it would have been Winston, and you'd have been just as happy(unhappy??). But Kubiak looked at the players available, and decided that Demeco Ryans was a much better selection for this team, than any OL left on the board at that time.

If you've honestly watched our team play in 2004, 2005, & 2006 you'd see our OL never had a chance.


And this year we could have traded down to get Staley and also probably gotten an extra first day pick (I liked that approach), but they sat on their #10 pick and used it for a DLineman. They eventually drafted OLine, but not until the 5th round !
We can talk about rumors and what they might have done, but we now have some history with 2 Drafts completed since Kubiak got here, and its clear what they have in fact done.

How many teams traded into the top ten??

You want to talk about what really happened, without all the might've beens, and could've beens, let's talk about that. Last year, how many teams traded into the top ten?? Nobody wants a top ten pick anymore, at least it's starting to look that way.

At least the players that would attract teams to trade into the top ten haven't been available in these last few drafts.

Honoring Earl 34
05-12-2007, 12:17 PM
I think Kubiak and Smith use a little Denver logic but I think first and foremost they are their own men .

I think Belichek came from the Parcells tree but he did things his way and passed Ol Bill up . I hope the same things happen here that Smith and Kubiak succeed by doing things their way and then you'll have the Kubiak / Smith tree .

I agree with TK about Bush lying to Mcnair . Of course the way Goddell is cracking down this may not be a bad policy .

nunusguy
05-12-2007, 12:49 PM
no, that is not your point. Until he lied, Reggie was the pick. We were going to move up(trade picks) to get a running back late in the first. We targeted two running backs and one wide receiver in the first round for the last two years running.


That's all rumor, surmisal and innuendo. We don't know that for a fact.
We know they didn't take top rated back Bush, or top rated OLineman D'Brick.
Fact - they took a DLineman. I'm convinced we would have taken Bush had it been up to Casserly, but Bronco Kubiak had the power to override the Casserly choice. If we are going to speculate, I'd go that way.
This year why use their 3rd round pick (no second round pick) on a WR who won't contribute until probably 2008 ? And then they used 2 more picks, waiting until their "2nd" 5th round pick to take a OT. And when the second day rolls around, teams draft less on talent and more on need and there was better OT players out there Sunday for our 4th rounder and first 5th than what we took with our 5th rounder.
BTW, its fine with me if they use the Denver Blueprint because it worked up there, and it would really be illogical for Smith & Kubiak to go against a system that they grew up with (so to speak), and that was highly successful.

Honoring Earl 34
05-12-2007, 01:04 PM
I think in the Broncos scheme they like drafting CBs , QBs , WRs , LBs , and DL in the first round .

In defense of not picking Bush ... anybody notice the Saints getting Pittman ? Does this meen Reggie is a slot recieving 3rd down RB ?

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/teams/DEN

nunusguy
05-12-2007, 01:13 PM
The Broncos selected over twice as many DBs than any other position. But, the Broncos obsession with the defensive secondary hasn't manifested here in Houston, with only a couple of 2nd day picks thus far. If there is a link between the Broncos and what the Texans have done over the past 2 drafts, I'm not seeing it.
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Maybe there's not the correlation in DLineman, but didn't they bring in some expensive DLine FAs in the last year or 2 in lieu of drafting there ?
But I can sure see it in the OLine & RB. Mike Bell, there top back last year I believe (stat wise), was an undrafted rookie FA. That sounds like Kubiaks motley group of backs including Darius Walker & Chris Taylor plus senior citizen A.Green & Dayne. I love it ! Running Back is a commodity, not a rare, one-of-a-kind elite specimen. I wonder, is there really that much diifere3nce between an Adriaqn Peterson & a Chris Taylor, if both are given the same opportunity ?
And Denvers OLine is remakable: their current Depth Chart has a guy acquired as an undrafted FA as the starting LT, and the only guy among the starters drafted first day is the RT. And he came out of retirement to play for the Broncos. And the OLine is led by Center Tom Nalen, origionally a 7th round pick who might be a HOFamer some day. Like their backs, the Broncos find these OLinemen somewhere, somehow.

Honoring Earl 34
05-12-2007, 01:19 PM
The team of the decade so far if NE . Belechick (sp) took over in 1999 ... so lets look at their drafts .

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/teams/NE

Texans_Chick
05-12-2007, 01:41 PM
I'll dig up the link for it later if I can find it easily, but there's stats from the time of Kubiak being in Denver where Denver typically picked defense at the top of the draft and system guys lower. The thought was that some of the guys they like for their system aren't valued that high. They would pick offense high in the draft if there was a guy they thought really justified picking high and was a priority position. (ala Cutler).

The last two drafts have been fairly balanced between offense and defense.

If you hear the Smith and Kubiak and the players talk, smarts, football smarts, character, team focus are things that are valued very highly by the organization.

thunderkyss
05-12-2007, 01:48 PM
That's all rumor, surmisal and innuendo. We don't know that for a fact.
We know they didn't take top rated back Bush, or top rated OLineman D'Brick.
Fact - they took a DLineman. I'm convinced we would have taken Bush had it been up to Casserly, but Bronco Kubiak had the power to override the Casserly choice. If we are going to speculate, I'd go that way.
This year why use their 3rd round pick (no second round pick) on a WR who won't contribute until probably 2008 ? And then they used 2 more picks, waiting until their "2nd" 5th round pick to take a OT. And when the second day rolls around, teams draft less on talent and more on need and there was better OT players out there Sunday for our 4th rounder and first 5th than what we took with our 5th rounder.
BTW, its fine with me if they use the Denver Blueprint because it worked up there, and it would really be illogical for Smith & Kubiak to go against a system that they grew up with (so to speak), and that was highly successful.

I think you're listening to too much ESPN.

#1, as exciting a player as Reggie Bush is, he is not a #1 overall pick. Never was, never will be. Fact, we didn't pick him with the #1 overall. Fact, he isn't the starting RB on his team, and may never be. Fact, he isn't the #1 reciever on his team, and never will be. If anything, he's like(notice I used the word like, because he isn't exactly) a versatile tight end.

#2, everything said by our camp leading up to the draft, was that Reggie was our guy. If you want to throw a smoke screen, and have people believe that Reggie was available through a trade, you tell people you don't want him. Nobody trades away a player they want.

#3, Bill Parcells spent two first round picks on DL(Spears & Ware) a few years ago, and both running backs on their team are third & 4th round picks...... are we copying them as well.


#4, D'Brickshaw gave up more sacks than our LT by committee did last year. Stop crying about the OL.

#5, Jacoby will most likely be starting day one on ST.

Honoring Earl 34
05-12-2007, 01:58 PM
#4, D'Brickshaw gave up more sacks than our LT by committee did last year. Stop crying about the OL.


Where have you been TK ... hanging out on the Panthers board with Hulk ?

I've read where we are being reamed for not drafting an OL at #10 by the Espn's of the world .

If would have drafted Staley at #10 would would have been reamed for reaching . Until we win ... we will have to deal with the Reggie , OL crap ... hopefully it ends this year .

Wolfiegrrl
05-12-2007, 02:53 PM
I think HonoringEarl is right. We are not going to be taken seriously by any sports reporting moron until we start winning.

I've lived in the Pacific Northwest for the last decade. The SeaHawks didn't start getting respect until they won their division several years in a row then finally advanced through the playoffs to the Superbowl. I've seen the patience it takes for a team to develop. I can't tell you how many times my SeaHawks loving friend had baby heart attacks and heart break over the last decade.

I know it is hard for you to imagine getting through years of pain to enjoy the good life of AFC South Champs, AFC Champs, to Superbowl Champs. Hell, look at the Colts. How long has it taken them? "What if's" and "could've beens" didn't get the Colts to the Superbowl.

Houston's time will come. Gary Kubiak and Rick Smith are preparing this team to be winners for a long time. I like that we are building a stout defense. What would y'all think to the possibility of holding Indy to only 3 points in a game? I salivate at the idea.
:fans: :doot: :respect: :texan: