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Jagsbch
10-29-2004, 10:15 PM
Jimmy Smith or Andre Johnson? Who is going to have the best season?

Andre 2003 16 66/976 14.8 46 4
Jimmy 2003 12 54/805 14.9 4
Andre 2004 6 33/591 17.9 54 4
Jimmy 2004 7 33/586 17.8 65 2


I'll think the Ol man will have a better season, and a better game tomorrow. :popcorn:

texan279
10-29-2004, 10:23 PM
Don't forget Jimmy Smith has played in one more game this year and Johnson still has better stats. And the game is not tomorrow, it's on SUNDAY.

Jagsbch
10-29-2004, 10:55 PM
Byron throws to more receivers than Carr thats why Jimmy has the same amount of receptions as Andre, even though he has had more games. Jags still don't have a legit #2 guy at this point so if anything that just makes Jimmy's stats that much more impressive. :cool:

TexansTrueFan
10-29-2004, 11:00 PM
You must not of watched any of our games, cause if so youd see that carr dows spread the ball around quite a bit. And johnnson has those great numbers because he is just that good He will finish with better stats than jimmy even though both should have great years !

texan279
10-29-2004, 11:18 PM
Byron throws to more receivers than Carr thats why Jimmy has the same amount of receptions as Andre, even though he has had more games. Jags still don't have a legit #2 guy at this point so if anything that just makes Jimmy's stats that much more impressive.

That makes no sense, Byron throws to more receivers yet the Jags do not have a legit #2 guy? If the Jags do not have a legit #2 it seems to me that Byron would throw to him more instead of throwing to the #3 or lower WR. Carr has 4 legit threats at WR and all of our WR's have 200+ yards total so far this season.

TexanExile
10-30-2004, 12:45 AM
Carr has 4 legit threats at WR and all of our WR's have 200+ yards total so far this season.

And I think we're the only team in the NFL that can say that, right? It's pretty remarkable, only 6 games in.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
10-30-2004, 01:00 AM
AJ will have about 300 more yards receiving than Jimmy Smith by the end of the season. Rack it!

texan279
10-30-2004, 01:02 AM
Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, I wonder who voted for Jimmy Smith? :BananaWav

texasguy346
10-30-2004, 01:06 AM
AJ will definately have better stats than Smith at seasons end. Maybe if you combined Smith and Wilfords #'s at seasons end then you'd have a legitimate question.

rittenhouserobz
10-30-2004, 06:50 AM
Byron throws to more receivers than Carr thats why Jimmy has the same amount of receptions as Andre, even though he has had more games. Jags still don't have a legit #2 guy at this point so if anything that just makes Jimmy's stats that much more impressive. :cool:

I have watched every Texans game. The top 4 WR in the Texans offense could start on many teams. AJ is a #1 WR, Gaffney and Armstrong are #2 WR's. The only borderline #2 might be Bradford. IMHO. AJ will get more yards and TDs.

Jagsbch
10-30-2004, 07:18 AM
That makes no sense, Byron throws to more receivers yet the Jags do not have a legit #2 guy? If the Jags do not have a legit #2 it seems to me that Byron would throw to him more instead of throwing to the #3 or lower WR.

Here's how it works, most DC's double Jimmy virtually the whole game, thats pretty much been the story ever since Keenan left. They leave the rest of the pack of nobodies that Byron has to throw to one on one or in zone coverage. Byron is hitting 9-10 receivers a week.

Now that the players are getting dialed into the system Byron is able to utilize more of Bill Musgraves ingenious offense, as players are actually where they are supposed to be. This means Jimmy might see more single coverage in the future, as Byron is proving that all he needs is a body to throw too, not a #.

Ephram Sallaam, was picked up this season, he's a vet who's been around the block, he was even surprised at just how complicated our offensive game plan was. One of the reasons it's taken our offense so long to be a collective unit is because a lot of the players were not on the same page as Byron. It will be another year before we see, what this offense is actualy capable of IMO, this offense is still in second gear. :headbang:

The reason why I posted this thread is to show just how underrated one of the best WR's to ever play the game was, even to fans in his own division. You all ought to be ashamed of yourselves.

Jimmy Smith 2 7.14%
Andre Johnson 26 92.86%
Voters: 28.

lol:

Grid
10-30-2004, 08:29 AM
he isnt underrated :) He is worthy of the position he has.. #1 receiver for the Jags.. but he is not some diamond in the rough, he isnt a Moss.. he isnt an Owens.. he isnt a Ward.. and he surely isnt a Johnson.

As for your team spreading it around "so much more" ive already made posts on it.. and the numbers are not THAT MUCH greater than ours. You have hit more receivers.. but for the most part those extra receivers you hit have been for crappy yardage.

The most important stat is this. We have 9 receivers who average more than 10 yards per completion (most in the 15 area). you have 5 (most in the 10 and 11 area)

So.. yah.. you are throwing to ALL KINDS of receivers.. and getting negligable yardage.. we are only throwing to 10 receivers and getting first downs :P.

TexanExile
10-30-2004, 08:30 AM
C'mon, bch, you've made some good posts around here and I've enjoyed seeing the game from your POV. But you can't seriously be surprised that a poll at HOUSTONTEXANS.COM turns out that way, right? And it doesn't mean we don't respect Jimmy.

Remember the question you asked. I know how good Jimmy is. I still think Andre's going to blow him out this season. Nothing to do with respect.

Vinny
10-30-2004, 11:41 AM
Jagsbch is a world-class homer guys. Frankly, he is the Mother of all homers so get used to it. He will see everything thru teal colored glasses.

As for my opinion...

I think Jimmy Smith is a borderline hall of famer, but I think AJ is very special and Smith is very old. Do the math.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
10-30-2004, 12:15 PM
bottom line is Jimmy Smith is 35 and wont get any better

Andre Johnson is 23 and hasnt even reached his full potential yet

but that is all a moot point since AJ is already better than Jimmy Smith ever was

Vinny
10-30-2004, 12:22 PM
but that is all a moot point since AJ is already better than Jimmy Smith ever was I don't think I'd go that far just yet. In 1999 Smith had 116 catches for 1636 yards (14.1 ypc) and 86 first downs. He has around 11 thousand yards in his career. He may end up in the HOF before his career ends.

JDizzle
10-30-2004, 12:26 PM
Andre Johnson is also doubled nearly every route he runs. Most - if not all - of his highlight reel circus catches have been in double coverage. I have much respect for Jimmy Smith but Andre Johnson is clearly the better receiver this season (so far).

Hey, if it means anything to you, Fred Taylor is better than Jonathan Wells :yap

RunninRaven
10-30-2004, 12:34 PM
Whatever disadvantage Jimmy Smith battles from not having a legit #2 WR is at least equaled by the Texans having no recognizable ground threat. Davis has been sub par this season, Hollings has been hurt and Wells has overachieved, but is still average. Teams KNOW our offense has to do the majority of our damage in the air.

And while Fred Taylor hasn't been wracking up the yards so far this season, I guarantee you opposing defenses still gameplan against him. No one worries much about Jonathon Wells.

Jagsbch
10-30-2004, 01:54 PM
I know how good Jimmy is. I still think Andre's going to blow him out this season. Nothing to do with respect.

lol: :rofl:

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
10-30-2004, 02:35 PM
You won't find a single Non-Texans/Non-Jags fan that would take Jimmy Smith over Andre Johnson. Simple as that. :woot:

Rosusu
10-30-2004, 02:58 PM
I think they will both have a great seasons. AJ will have a better year though. Its just that simple, he is still getting better with every game. I dont see jimmy getting any better throughout the season.

LoNghoRn-TeXaN
10-30-2004, 03:18 PM
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Rosusu
10-30-2004, 03:23 PM
Only 10 touchdowns?? That number seems low.

LoNghoRn-TeXaN
10-30-2004, 03:26 PM
Alrite Rosusu, since you insist, I'll change my signature which I've had since Training camp started.

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:headbang:

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
10-30-2004, 05:04 PM
i don't think Jimmy Smith ever ran a 4.3, even in his prime.

Jagsbch
10-31-2004, 10:10 AM
Jaguars have 1 WR in the top 50 WR's in the 20+ Yards catagory; Texans have 3.
http://www.nfl.com/stats/playersort...ar?&_1:col_1=10

Player Team Rec/Yds Lng TDs 20+ 40+
1. Javon Walker GB 41/726 79 6 11 5
2. Jimmy Smith JAC 33/586 65 2 11 3
3. Andre Johnson TX 33/591 54 4 10 2
4. Terrell Owens PHI 34/596 55 8 9 6
20. Jabar Gaffney TX 17/237 30 2 6
40. Derick Armstrong TX 16/249 35 1 5

texan279
10-31-2004, 10:19 AM
Are you saying we have better WR's?

Jagsbch
10-31-2004, 10:23 AM
I guess one could easily get that interpretation by looking at this stat. One thing is for sure Texans have 2 legit #2 guys who pose a deep threat, while the Jags on the other hand do not. This pretty much ties into my argument of why Jimmy's stats are much more impressive than Johnsons. Did I mention that Jimmy was old enough to be Andres Daddy. :rofl:

Beastlyman2003
10-31-2004, 10:26 AM
Hey Jagsbch, Why post this? You make yourself seem incompetant in asking the question," Whos better, Andre OR Jommy?" NO CONTEST! Just ask ANYONE WHO WATCHES THE GREAT GAME OF FOOTBALL. Andre in a landslide.

texan279
10-31-2004, 10:28 AM
That makes no sense. You are saying we have 2 legit #2 WR's and that is why Smith has better numbers. Don't you think Johnson would get LESS balls thrown his way with 3 other LEGIT THREATS at WR? You have no argument here. Smith is the only decent WR you guys have so he will get a lot of balls thrown to him, as for us we have 4 threats at WR and the ball is spread. Why don't you even post this on the Jags MB and see who gets the most votes...

Vinny
10-31-2004, 10:29 AM
Hey Jagsbch, Why post this? You make yourself seem incompetant in asking the question," Whos better, Andre OR Jommy?" NO CONTEST!
Nah, he is just more fair than you guys want to believe. He is a total homer but he isn't blind. I've read Jagsbsch for years. He is total-jag, but he can be reasonable....in a strange, homer-laden way.

Jagsbch
10-31-2004, 10:45 AM
That makes no sense. You are saying we have 2 legit #2 WR's and that is why Smith has better numbers. Don't you think Johnson would get LESS balls thrown his way with 3 other LEGIT THREATS at WR? You have no argument here. Smith is the only decent WR you guys have so he will get a lot of balls thrown to him, as for us we have 4 threats at WR and the ball is spread. Why don't you even post this on the Jags MB and see who gets the most votes...

Nothing more I'd rather do, but my hands are tied. They booted me off the official board when the season ended last year, guess they got tired of my homer antics. :confused:

You cannot leave Jimmy one on one, he is a DC's nightmare. :headbang: Jimmy gets doubled just about every snap he takes, because we don't have such as big of threat any where else in our WR core. If he is not open Byron will not throw it to him.

BTW Jimmy is 14 receptions away from passing James Lofton for #12 all time. :cool:

texan279
10-31-2004, 11:00 AM
Johnson is also ALWAYS double covered, and always seems to come away with the ball.

rittenhouserobz
10-31-2004, 11:54 AM
Jaguars have 1 WR in the top 50 WR's in the 20+ Yards catagory; Texans have 3.
http://www.nfl.com/stats/playersort...ar?&_1:col_1=10

Player Team Rec/Yds Lng TDs 20+ 40+
1. Javon Walker GB 41/726 79 6 11 5
2. Jimmy Smith JAC 33/586 65 2 11 3
3. Andre Johnson TX 33/591 54 4 10 2
4. Terrell Owens PHI 34/596 55 8 9 6
20. Jabar Gaffney TX 17/237 30 2 6
40. Derick Armstrong TX 16/249 35 1 5

Have the Jags had their bye week yet? Stats right now are off a little. Wait until after week 10 and see where the dust settles. I believe that having the pro-bowl voting while bye are happening also scews the perception a fan might have when voting. Nevertheless wait til week 10 or week 16 when we travel to Jax.

Jagsbch
10-31-2004, 01:08 PM
Are you saying we have better WR's?

Player Team Rec/Yds Lng TDs 20+ 40+
1. Javon Walker GB 41/726 79 6 11 5
2. Jimmy Smith JAC 33/586 65 2 11 3
3. Andre Johnson TX 33/591 54 4 10 2
4. Terrell Owens PHI 34/596 55 8 9 6
20. Jabar Gaffney TX 17/237 30 2 6
40. Derick Armstrong TX 16/249 35 1 5
74. Troy Edwards JAC 23/236 26 0 2
85. Corey Bradford TX 11/163 47 1 2 1
86. Darius Watts DEN 14/173 28 0 2
87. Ernest Wilford JAC 14/161 38 2 2
109. Keenan McCardell SD 1 5 65 23 0 1 0
117. Reggie Williams JAC 7 12 115 19 0 0 0
127. Devard Darling BAL 3 2 5 1.7 4 2.5 0 0 0
135. Rashaun Woods SF 6 2 35 18 1 0 0
136. Cortez Hankton JAC 3 4 35 14 2 0 0
139. Jerry Rice OAK 6 5 67 18 0 0 0
140. Jermaine Lewis JAC 6 1 4 4 0 0 0

Corrosion
11-01-2004, 01:07 AM
Get started eating your crow :hehe: ......... 20-6 Texans . SCOREBOARD is all that counts :hehe:

their stats for today


A.J. 9/74/0

J.S. 9/117/0

For the season .....

A.J 33/591/4 in SIX games

J.S 33/856/2 in SEVEN games

LoNghoRn-TeXaN
11-01-2004, 02:02 AM
J.S 33/856/2 in SEVEN games

703 yards to be correct.

Jagsbch
11-28-2004, 08:08 AM
:coolb: Looks like a tight race...
Player Team G Rec Yds Lng Avg TDs 20+ 40+
1.Andre Johnson 57/859 54 15.1 4 15 3
2.Jimmy Smith 51/841 65 16.5 3 14 3

Jagsbch
12-20-2004, 03:16 PM
No Yards Avg Lg TD 20+ 40+ FD :bguitar:
Johnson 73/1083 14.8 54 5 18 3 49
J. Smith 69/1133 16.4 65 6 19 4 50

gwallaia
12-20-2004, 03:17 PM
Pretty damn close, they could be twins.

Jagsbch
12-20-2004, 03:27 PM
You wouldn't know it by this poll 4-71? Jimmy leads in every catagory but the poll. :rofl:
No Yards Avg Lg TD 20+ 40+ FD :bguitar:
Johnson 73/1083 14.8 54 5 18 3 49
J. Smith 69/1133 16.4 65 6 19 4 50

TheOgre
12-20-2004, 03:38 PM
There is one fundamental reason for this discrepancy. Defenses are scared of Fred Taylor and will scheme to stop him AND Smith. Most of the defenses we face focus on shutting down AJ and dare DD to beat them. We basically face cover 2 defenses every week, even from teams that do not traditionally run that defense. Nobody bites on play-action passes. This results in a lack of big pass plays, particularly from our star receiver who is double-teamed most of the game.

Jagsbch
12-20-2004, 03:40 PM
Stop it all this spin is making my dizzy :rofl: :loser

Doug
12-20-2004, 03:58 PM
Season's not over, so don't pee your pants in excitement just yet!

HJam72
12-20-2004, 04:12 PM
There is one fundamental reason for this discrepancy. Defenses are scared of Fred Taylor and will scheme to stop him AND Smith. Most of the defenses we face focus on shutting down AJ and dare DD to beat them. We basically face cover 2 defenses every week, even from teams that do not traditionally run that defense. Nobody bites on play-action passes. This results in a lack of big pass plays, particularly from our star receiver who is double-teamed most of the game.

I don't think anyone has mentioned yet that Carr is STILL running for his life. I don't see how we can judge AJ, based on his total catches, yds., etc. when Carr only has 2 seconds before he has to scramble.

Jagsbch
12-20-2004, 04:18 PM
http://extremeskins.com/forums/images/smilies/violin.gif

Hervoyel
12-20-2004, 10:53 PM
Why are we arguing over which one of these guys is going to have a better year/career/game or which one is the better reciever. It's a comparison of one guy who's been doing this for years and another who's in his second season. Smith is a great reciever and I'm happy that people are saying Johnson can/will also be a great reciever. When AJ's played as long as Smith it will be time IMO to compare and contrast what they each did and talk about who was better. Right now one has had a great career (and is still having it) while the other's at the beginning of a promising career that shows signs that it could be great.

TEXANS84
12-22-2004, 05:40 PM
Heh...looks like you were answered today bch!

Jagsbch
12-22-2004, 07:29 PM
Your Joking right :hmmm:

TEXANS84
12-22-2004, 07:35 PM
Your Joking right :hmmm:

You guys need to stop the comparison on Johnson over there for the probowl and look at the snuff Jimmy got from Heinz Ward.

Jagsbch
12-22-2004, 07:40 PM
Look I am over it already.

BigDTexansFan
12-22-2004, 08:09 PM
Now that the players are getting dialed into the system Byron is able to utilize more of Bill Musgraves ingenious offense


Is this the same Bill Musgrave whose offensive wizardry was responsible for Carolina's 1-15 in 2000 Season :listening

JaguarsFan1
12-23-2004, 01:20 AM
[QUOTE=Jagsbch]Here's how it works, most DC's double Jimmy virtually the whole game, thats pretty much been the story ever since Keenan left. They leave the rest of the pack of nobodies that Byron has to throw to one on one or in zone coverage. Byron is hitting 9-10 receivers a week.

Now that the players are getting dialed into the system Byron is able to utilize more of Bill Musgraves ingenious offense, as players are actually where they are supposed to be. This means Jimmy might see more single coverage in the future, as Byron is proving that all he needs is a body to throw too, not a #.

Ephram Sallaam, was picked up this season, he's a vet who's been around the block, he was even surprised at just how complicated our offensive game plan was. One of the reasons it's taken our offense so long to be a collective unit is because a lot of the players were not on the same page as Byron. It will be another year before we see, what this offense is actualy capable of IMO, this offense is still in second gear. :headbang:

The reason why I posted this thread is to show just how underrated one of the best WR's to ever play the game was, even to fans in his own division. You all ought to be ashamed of yourselves.

Jimmy Smith 2 7.14%
Andre Johnson 26 92.86%
Voters: 28.







NO! This is how it really works. Jagsbch is a real tool. He was bounced from Jaguars.com for being an i-d-iot. The ONLY thing I can agree with him is, Jimmy Smith is one of the best WR in the game today. I don't care if he his 35. Chris Mcallester (sp) said Jimmy was the hardest WR he ever had to cover. If he gets one on one with DRob, Jimmy will be taking him to school.

blockhead83
12-23-2004, 01:58 AM
I agree, as much as I respect DRob, Jimmy Smith runs some of the prettiest routes you'll see and when DRob gets beat in coverage for a big play it's usually due to him getting his feet tied up on a double move or similar circumstances. That said, Aaron Glenn is a vet who can handle some of those nifty moves from Smith, and he stands a good chance of containing Smith as long as he has help over the top.

Between AJ and Smith at this point in their careers, AJ would obviously be the guy you'd choose if you're developing a franchise, but it'd be damn near a toss up if you just wanted a WR who'd help you win now. AJ's definitely got Smith in nearly every athletic category at this point, but Smith has proven again and again that the trick's he's learned come in very useful. They're both playmakers and when given the opportunity I've seen them both make some jaw dropping catches this season.

Jagsbch
12-23-2004, 01:04 PM
Nothing like a fan coming into another fan bases forum, and having the nerve to bash a member of their very own fan base by calling them a tool and an *****, and then have the nerve to simultaneously agree with their take, makes ya wonder who the ***** is don't it?

I actually got bounced out of the forum back in the day for smacking fans like this around a little too hard... Point is I bounced back, and am back @ Jaguars.com to this day; because most Jag fans have learned by now to leave well enough alone... Back off and you won't get the grinded to powder...

Look's like we have a fan who got smacked just a little too hard back in the day, and is still holding a grudge, you think he would have learned by now, not to start trouble and their won't be trouble... :listening :shocked

I think Texan fans are well aware by now that I am here to do one thing and one thing only, talk football, by geering with a little smack and learn a thing or two from the local's about our rival while giving a few lessons of my own with this thread being a perfect example.

Honest I don't mean to smack any of my fan base in this forum so please excuse this little squabble, I mean do I just take the smack with out some sort of reply? Now this ***** is probably going to get this thread shut down... :hmmm:

TexansTrueFan
12-23-2004, 01:11 PM
jagsbch i think you are pretty cool and welcome to the texans board, i like a lil smack talk, makes things a lil more interesting !

Jagsbch
12-23-2004, 06:12 PM
I like this forum too, especially when Vinny throws his insights into the Mix. Guy is one of the smartest fans I have had the pleasure of reading while in my surf sessions across the WWW. He rivals any fan I have ever met. Just so you know, I have done a lot of surfing, but this has got to be the best site on WWW.

some smart cookies in here... (http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=26)

JaguarsFan1
12-23-2004, 10:58 PM
I like this forum too, especially when Vinny throws his insights into the Mix. Guy is one of the smartest fans I have had the pleasure of reading while in my surf sessions across the WWW. He rivals any fan I have ever met. Just so you know, I have done a lot of surfing, but this has got to be the best site on WWW.

some smart cookies in here... (http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=26)


Then by all means stay here. They'll figure you out sooner or later. For the record, I only agreed with you on one thing. Jimmy Smith.


PS. Go buy a ticket sometime. Quit acting like you are the #1 fan when all you have to go by is Brian and Jeff. :rofl:

TEXANS84
12-24-2004, 12:17 AM
PS. Go buy a ticket sometime. Quit acting like you are the #1 fan when all you have to go by is Brian and Jeff. :rofl:
:popcorn: Just watching...carry on...

fresno8
12-24-2004, 04:09 AM
OK, Smith gets doubled because you don't have any other threats and you say he's better than AJ. Well, we have other threats and Andre still gets doubled basically every play. So simple logic says AJ is better jagsbch. I'll take Andre over Jimmy anyday.

Jagsbch
12-24-2004, 09:23 AM
Well there are just two more Games left and Jimmy is in the lead. :banana:
I am really glad, to see them running so tight, to be honest I thought for sure Jimmy would be blowing him completely out of the water by now, much like some of you all probably thought about AJ.

Point is AJ is a hell of alot better than I thought he was. I am glad we get to see them both playing on the same field in one of the last games of the season, and actually see who makes it across the finish line first. This is a most excellent treat. WOW Christmas Tomorrow and the Game is Sunday can it get any better?

jr0ck
12-24-2004, 02:28 PM
I am really glad, to see them running so tight, to be honest I thought for sure Jimmy would be blowing him completely out of the water by now, much like some of you all probably thought about AJ.

Point is AJ is a hell of alot better than I thought he was

it's kinda funny how andre has been one of the few texans to garner any national attention this year, and yet, your just now changing your mind about how talented he is. i don't think there's any knowledgable texan fans who are that suprised with how tight "the race" is........especially considering our offensive inconsistency in the second half of the year ;)