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powerfuldragon
04-29-2007, 11:58 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/name/FS/NFL/SiteElement/Image/Helmets/Right/34 HOUSTON TEXANS (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/draftTracker?team=34&year=2007)

Czar's breakdown: It's fair to include new quarterback Matt Schaub in this draft because they had to deal picks this year and next to Atlanta for him. I will say it again; they took the most impressive young man in this draft in Louisville's Amobi Okoye. Okoye, a potential Warren Sapp-like defensive tackle, won't turn 20 until June. He is the youngest player ever drafted, plus he has his college degree. However, the Texans appeared to reach on receiver Jacoby Jones of Lane College. Jones really went to college on a track scholarship (10.28 in 100 meters) and also played basketball. He averaged 13.8 yards a catch. Stanford safety Brandon Harrison has been favorably compared to Seattle's Michael Boulware. OT Brandon Frye only started 11 games at Virginia Tech and looks like a risky fifth-round pick.
Grade: C-


http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6746812
it's fox sports. i still haven't been able to find any jacoby jones highlights.

kbourda
04-30-2007, 12:10 AM
Luckily the game of football is played on the football field. Stories like these are articles to hype the fans up. I like the Texans draft, as well as i'm sure the Texan brass liked the draft. That's all that matters.

Specnatz
04-30-2007, 12:38 AM
it's fox sports. i still haven't been able to find any jacoby jones highlights.

The Texans get a C- and the Titans get a C. Can you say full of crap or talking out your arse ... maybe he needs to watch eSpinNews more so he knows what he is talking about.

Add to that Washington had a terrible draft by not addressing any needs what so ever.

:texflag:

Silver Oak
04-30-2007, 06:40 AM
i still haven't been able to find any jacoby jones highlights.

Yeah....the best film I've seen of him was run on Channel 2 last night.

C-? Whatever.....

aj.
04-30-2007, 06:42 AM
I concur somwhat with their comments.

Not having a second round pick limits them from the outset. You can't count Schaub as a draft choice because he wasn't. But we did give away two Day 1 picks to get him.

The Jones pick shows how desperate the Texans are at WR. It's a very risky pick for 73. Jones' bio sounds like he's not a Mathis in that he can actually run routes. We'll see. He could be boom or bust.

I'm good with Bennett, Frye, and Studdard. Don't have enough info on Harrison.

There's no way I could grade this draft above average but of course we'll have to wait to see who makes the team and what their impact is before we assign any real grade.

TEXANRED
04-30-2007, 07:22 AM
I kinda agree with it. C+ to a B- is what I had thought.

I agree you can't count Schaub as our 2nd pick.

This kind of felt like the 2002 draft, not a lot our there and a severe drop in talent at all levels.

I noticed the Texans kept taking scrappy hard nosed kids in the later rounds. That could go a long way to shaping the attitude of our team. It was an OK draft. Not going to set the world on fire but not worth jumping off a ledge either.

This should be a clear signal to Mathis that he learns to play receiver or find a new team.

I am excited to to see our two OLinemen that we drafted and see what they can do.

Can't wait for August.

BigWig
04-30-2007, 07:26 AM
I too left with a feeling of somwhere around a C. It just wasnt really that exciting. WR is maybe something we can look at still in free agaency if there is any left.:user:

Thorn
04-30-2007, 07:36 AM
Judging a draft the day after it happens is like estimating hurricane damage before it hits. It's usually wrong, but people do it anyway.

Let's see how we feel about things next January. Right now, I don't see but one, possibly two of the draftees from this weekend actually in the starting lineup. And I am not counting Schwab, because he isn't a draft choice, he is a trade.

Last year almost all of the draftees were starting or playing by the end of the season, and I'm counting Spencer who whould have been starting if he hadn't been injured. If that happens again this year, count ourselves very lucky, but I don't see it with this year's crop.

The1ApplePie
04-30-2007, 07:43 AM
A trade down for Hall in the first and maybe Jarrett in the 2nd would have been very nice!

Big upgrade on a D-Line filled with busts and overpaid flops, but the secondary is still Swiss Cheese like.

I said on the old board that the Texans should be banned from taking a D-lineman in the 1st for five years, but this could work out.

Buffi2
04-30-2007, 08:03 AM
Given how well some of the "off the street" finds performed last year, I'm beginning to think that Kubiak and Smith prefer the scrappy/almost forgotten/seem to have little upside kind of player. They just might know what they are doing.:cool:

I'm going to hold off giving a real grade until I see these guys play, but from what I see a B- works.

I hope these rookies play like super stars and all of these sports gurus have to eat their words. I am tired of C's and D's and being the joke of the NFL. Enough is enough. The time has come for some A's and at least a .500 season.:pirate:

Errant Hothy
04-30-2007, 08:04 AM
The grading of drafts the day after is one of the most moronic practices in the whole Draft coverage by the media. None of what is said today means anything, drafts should be graded next March at the earliest.

The1ApplePie
04-30-2007, 08:21 AM
Kiper said we had one of the 3 worst drafts on Mike and Mike:texflag:

phantom17
04-30-2007, 08:24 AM
I give the Texans a B grade becuase it's not Cass & Comp. running the show. We address DT, CB, & SS, OT, WR, & G! Heck, every player drafted in the NFL esp. in the later rds has weakneses! I really like Bennet & Harisson (SS), a big, strong 227lbs. almost built like a LB! Slowly, Kubiak & Smith are making this team their own! I can't wait till FA's & Preseason to start!:pirate:

michaelm
04-30-2007, 08:32 AM
Not having a second round pick limits them from the outset. You can't count Schaub as a draft choice because he wasn't. But we did give away two Day 1 picks to get him.


Well, if we're going to be technical, instead of grading the draft, I'll grade what we got with our 2007 draft picks. That includes Schaub, and I give us a B+ for that, with potential to improve to an A after the season when the curve is adjusted... of course, there's also potential to be downgraded too, after the season, but I'm in a sunshine and white fluffy clouds kind of mood today...

michaelm
04-30-2007, 08:35 AM
The grading of drafts the day after is one of the most moronic practices in the whole Draft coverage by the media. None of what is said today means anything, drafts should be graded next March at the earliest.

So, by insinuation, we're morons too, for playing along?!?!?

Errant Hothy
04-30-2007, 08:36 AM
Kiper said we had one of the 3 worst drafts on Mike and Mike:texflag:

KIper is an *****, MCShay also said we had one of the 3 worst. I'm convinced nobody at ESPN watchs Texans football. Idiots...all of them.

red_dirt
04-30-2007, 08:47 AM
2007 Texans draft....poop....flush...

Maybe they accidentally got another Demeco Ryans, otherwise.....

Hey, at least we'll have a young d-line, that should help keep the Colts from running the score up too much.

My grade is D-

santo
04-30-2007, 08:48 AM
Funny how they also have the Texans Helmet with the Tennessee Titans...:bat:



Grade: B-


http://msn.foxsports.com/name/FS/NFL/SiteElement/Image/Helmets/Right/34 TENNESSEE TITANS (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/draftTracker?team=34&year=2007)

Czar's breakdown: ......

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6746812

Kaiser Toro
04-30-2007, 08:57 AM
Needs going into Draft - CB, S, C, DT, WR

Positions drafted - DT, WR, CB, S, OG, OG, LB

If our scouts are doing their job and the coaches develop these folks then this draft at worst, in three years, will be a B in my opinion. Half the battle is appropriately identifying, scouting and executing to your need. The other is development.

red_dirt
04-30-2007, 09:17 AM
you forgot OL, RB, QB.

Errant Hothy
04-30-2007, 09:20 AM
you forgot OL, RB, QB.

OG plays on the O-Line, why do you think we need another Rb (we've got like 6 on the roster), and the QB comment is just stirring up ****.

I dub thee...troll, or at the very least somebody who doesn't follow this team very well.

Dallas_Texan
04-30-2007, 09:29 AM
I concur somwhat with their comments.

Not having a second round pick limits them from the outset. You can't count Schaub as a draft choice because he wasn't. But we did give away two Day 1 picks to get him.

The Jones pick shows how desperate the Texans are at WR. It's a very risky pick for 73. Jones' bio sounds like he's not a Mathis in that he can actually run routes. We'll see. He could be boom or bust.

I'm good with Bennett, Frye, and Studdard. Don't have enough info on Harrison.

There's no way I could grade this draft above average but of course we'll have to wait to see who makes the team and what their impact is before we assign any real grade.


I disagree. I think you can count Schaub as a draft pick, just as NE can count Moss. B/c that's the player you got for your picks. He may not be a rookie, but when grading the draft you grade what the received for their picks. We received Schaub.

-Okoye, Schaub, Bennet, Studdard A+ picks at their spots IMHO

-Jacoby Jones - C- pick

-Harrison - D- pick IMHO.....He needs to really do well to justify passing on Gattis and Wendling.


Overall Grade - B

Porky
04-30-2007, 09:32 AM
I'm giving it a B- right now, but if Jones works out, that could go higher. If I figure in Schaub as our 2nd rounder, it goes way up to an A- for me.

Best value - Fred Bennett. Would have shocked nobody if he was a high 3rd rounder. I look for him to eventually be CB #2.

Worst value - Brandon Harrison. We don't need a project SS, we need a FS with range and some real coverage ability. Didn't care for this pick at all.

Most intriging second day prospect - Brandon Frye. Very gifted athletically, but very raw at this point. If he takes to the coaching, is dedicated to improving, and "gets it" he could eventually start and do very well. If not, he could be out of the league in short order. The other intriging thing is where is his home? I have heard every single position on the line mentioned, including center. It's going to be interesting to see where he finally lands.

Dallas_Texan
04-30-2007, 09:39 AM
I'm giving it a B- right now, but if Jones works out, that could go higher. If I figure in Schaub as our 2nd rounder, it goes way up to an A- for me.

Best value - Fred Bennett. Would have shocked nobody if he was a high 3rd rounder. I look for him to eventually be CB #2.

Worst value - Brandon Harrison. We don't need a project SS, we need a FS with range and some real coverage ability. Didn't care for this pick at all.

Most intriging second day prospect - Brandon Frye. Very gifted athletically, but very raw at this point. If he takes to the coaching, is dedicated to improving, and "gets it" he could eventually start and do very well. If not, he could be out of the league in short order. The other intriging thing is where is his home? I have heard every single position on the line mentioned, including center. It's going to be interesting to see where he finally lands.

I smell NFL Europe for this guy. Maybe Studdard too. That's not a bad thing though, I like it.

Texans_Chick
04-30-2007, 09:43 AM
I concur somwhat with their comments.

Not having a second round pick limits them from the outset. You can't count Schaub as a draft choice because he wasn't. But we did give away two Day 1 picks to get him.

The Jones pick shows how desperate the Texans are at WR. It's a very risky pick for 73. Jones' bio sounds like he's not a Mathis in that he can actually run routes. We'll see. He could be boom or bust.

I'm good with Bennett, Frye, and Studdard. Don't have enough info on Harrison.

There's no way I could grade this draft above average but of course we'll have to wait to see who makes the team and what their impact is before we assign any real grade.

Nice points.

I think it is wrong when people say Jones = Mathis. Easy to say with small school, track first background. That Marciano likes him is a plus as well.

Mathis is a faster but smaller player.

Jones is someone that didn't get picked up by a big school because he was small coming out of high school.

But then there is this interesting Kubiak quote (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=3323):

You never know until you get on that field, but when the day started this morning, to come up with a player in the first round we never thought we’d be able to touch, I felt so good about that. Then it was a long wait for us between that first pick and this one, but our room is very excited because everybody sees a big-time upside in this young man, and we need some help out there at the receiving position, and the fact that it’s a player for (special teams coach) Joe (Marciano) to work with as we’re trying to get (WR) Jerome (Mathis) back helping this football team, that’s even more encouraging.”


Hmmm. It will be interesting to see what happens with Mathis. He had the hammy issues year one, and then really pushed to get back year two and injured himself again.

I know John McClain is very anti-Mathis, but I've talked to some in the Texans organization that say he's an okay guy. It would be nice to see of he can stay healthy because even pushing his rehab coming off a serious injury, he was still able to make plays for the team last year.

Special teams was a bit of an adventure last year, so hopefully Jones can help make it less of one.

Goldensilence
04-30-2007, 09:44 AM
I would probably say the grade is related to taking our top two players that have a lot of upside but could faulter. Good news is i think we can work both into the lineup instead of throwing them into the fire.

Biggest concern(for me anyway) obviously is they must feel confident about Spencer and his status coming into the season. I like the Frye pick...lot of potential and upside but not ready to go from day one obviously. The Harrison pick has me nervous but they might know something we don't as I wasn't sure about the Owens pick last year or heck even Spencer.

I like Jones size and speed. Biggest knock on him is the Div 2 competetion. But he at least looks and sounds like he's a more polished receiver then Mathis. Who, far as i am concerned, is Mr. Irrelevant til he deceides he wants to play receiver first and kick returner second.

I'm more nervous then elated on this draft...lot of upside with the first two picks and some developmental prospects that could contribute. Bennett could be pushing midway through the season.

infantrycak
04-30-2007, 09:45 AM
Worst value - Brandon Harrison. We don't need a project SS, we need a FS with range and some real coverage ability. Didn't care for this pick at all.

Don't get too hung up on his SS tag. He started 10 games last year at CB and five at SS. He is also smart which is a big asset at FS.

Errant Hothy
04-30-2007, 09:48 AM
Worst value - Brandon Harrison. We don't need a project SS, we need a FS with range and some real coverage ability. Didn't care for this pick at all.

To mirror what infantrycak said, I've also read/heard that Stanford runs more of a left and right safety not so much free and strong.

The1ApplePie
04-30-2007, 09:49 AM
OG plays on the O-Line, why do you think we need another Rb (we've got like 6 on the roster), and the QB comment is just stirring up ****.

I dub thee...troll, or at the very least somebody who doesn't follow this team very well.


Maybe because all our RBs suck?

Green: Good two years ago, but washed up at this point
Dayne: One of the biggest busts in RB history
Lundy: Not worthy to be on an NFL roster
Taylor: Practice squad at best

Right now, we have one good offensive player (AJ) and a bunch of scrubs at the skill positions and O-Line.

Errant Hothy
04-30-2007, 09:52 AM
Maybe because all our RBs suck?

Green: Good two years ago, but washed up at this point
Dayne: One of the biggest busts in RB history
Lundy: Not worthy to be on an NFL roster
Taylor: Practice squad at best

Right now, we have one good offensive player (AJ) and a bunch of scrubs at the skill positions and O-Line.

And yet none have been cut, none were drafted, and I highly doubt we carry more then 4. So maybe the Fo has a different view on them then you do.

To those crying for a RB, who should we have drafted and when?

Porky
04-30-2007, 09:59 AM
Don't get too hung up on his SS tag. He started 10 games last year at CB and five at SS. He is also smart which is a big asset at FS.

Fair enough. I was not at all happy with the Owen Daniels pick last year, so these guys get the benefit of the doubt, as obviousely they know more than me. I'm ignorant on the guy, and have never even seen him play, so clearly, they know more than me. Having said that, after reading the various scouting reports, I don't see how this guy translates over to a rangy cover FS, which is what we need. So, who plays FS this year? This guy, CC Brown, John Walker, or do we convert someone else, an even bigger project? Any way you slice it, FS is going to be the achilles heel of this defense again, and they could have addressed it in FA or the draft, and didn't. I honestly think they are one good FS away from being a top 10-12 type defense. They would then be strong up the middle at all 3 levels. And if they could add a good FS and an real impact OLB, they could have a top 5 defense. We aren't far away now! :splits:

Texans_Chick
04-30-2007, 10:00 AM
I like Jones size and speed. Biggest knock on him is the Div 2 competetion. But he at least looks and sounds like he's a more polished receiver then Mathis. Who, far as i am concerned, is Mr. Irrelevant til he deceides he wants to play receiver first and kick returner second.

Mathis didn't have much of an opportunity to show his desire to play receiver. IIRC, early reports were that Mathis wasn't taking his WR coaching well. Part of that may have been that he had a undiagnosed fracture of his foot.

Dude had the motorcycle injury and the undiagnosed foot fracture (a type of fracture that would only show itself if you were trying to cut and plant, but not with most normal activities).

He has the surgery, and then plays a bit, and then pushes a little and injures something else. Not surprising after a long layoff.

Year 2 started off totally wrong for him, and given the stuff he has shown in the brief time he has been able to play, I hope his year 3 is as good as his year 2 was disappointing. It would be a great story.

That being said, hamstring problems can be of the reoccuring sort.

Interesting Kubiak quote after his performance last year against the Raiders (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=3055):

(on what he told WR Jerome Mathis after he struggled on his first kick return) “I just hollered at him a little bit about the mistake that he made. But the thing I liked about him, and I didn’t know this, I’ve been told how competitive he is from (special teams coordinator) Joe (Marciano) and various people within the football team, but I haven’t really be around him much as a player. And I got after him a little bit about the mistake he made. He really just looked me in the eyes and said, ‘Coach, I messed up, but I want the ball back.’ And actually, he was mad at the end of the game on the punt return when we ran the fake reverse he wanted us to run the reverse. We had both of them in and he was mad because Joe called for the fake and he was the bait. He wanted the ball again, so you want kids like that. You want kids that want to make the plays.”


It doesn't matter if you want to play WR, if physically you can't do it. Mathis pushed hard to get back into shape but if you push too hard you can injure other things by compensating.

Fingers crossed for year 3, but they are running out of WR spaces for Mathis.

Porky
04-30-2007, 10:05 AM
To mirror what infantrycak said, I've also read/heard that Stanford runs more of a left and right safety not so much free and strong.

I read that as well, and I appreciate that, but I am more concerned with ability than labels. I don't really care what label they designate it. Let's be really generic here. They need a guy who plays in the secondary with a lot of range, preferablly a center fielder type who can cover both halves of the field, and who doesn't generally play in a man coverage. Whatever label you guys want to use is fine by me. Left, right, backwards, upside down pineapple cake, it doesn't matter to me. I don't see this guy filling that role well, but like I said I have been wrong before, and I hope I am again. :texflag:

The1ApplePie
04-30-2007, 10:05 AM
And yet none have been cut, none were drafted, and I highly doubt we carry more then 4. So maybe the Fo has a different view on them then you do.

To those crying for a RB, who should we have drafted and when?

Marshawn Lynch

Wasting idiotic amounts of money on a 4th straight project D-Lineman makes less sense than reaching for Lynch at 10.

Trading down for a CB and Leonard in the 2nd wouldn't be bad either

Errant Hothy
04-30-2007, 10:17 AM
I read that as well, and I appreciate that, but I am more concerned with ability than labels. I don't really care what label they designate it. Let's be really generic here. They need a guy who plays in the secondary with a lot of range, preferablly a center fielder type who can cover both halves of the field, and who doesn't generally play in a man coverage. Whatever label you guys want to use is fine by me. Left, right, backwards, upside down pineapple cake, it doesn't matter to me. I don't see this guy filling that role well, but like I said I have been wrong before, and I hope I am again. :texflag:

If a team is not using the designates of Free and Strong it's safe to say that both the left and right safety have to be able to fill the box in run support and drop back and play the centerfeild type safety. He did it in the PAc 10, played S and CB, which implies to me that he's got a bit more coverage abaility then we are being lead to beleive. Add to that he's a Stanford product and has good hips, I wouldn't be surprised if he starts at FS for us. I think he maybe a coverage type S, but I don't think he'll grab that many INTs. A ball-hawker he is not. All the talk about him playing OLB makes no sense to me at all.

Errant Hothy
04-30-2007, 10:19 AM
Marshawn Lynch

Wasting idiotic amounts of money on a 4th straight project D-Lineman makes less sense than reaching for Lynch at 10.

Trading down for a CB and Leonard in the 2nd wouldn't be bad either

I'd argue that the D-line is in worse shape then the RB position, by a large margin. We have to get pressure on the QB, espically in our division.

As for trading down, you have to have a partner and an offer worth trading down for. I have no doubt that Rick Smith tried to trade down, but if the offer wasn't right I'm thankful he didn't pull the trigger on a ny deal.

Porky
04-30-2007, 10:25 AM
If a team is not using the designates of Free and Strong it's safe to say that both the left and right safety have to be able to fill the box in run support and drop back and play the centerfeild type safety. He did it in the PAc 10, played S and CB, which implies to me that he's got a bit more coverage abaility then we are being lead to beleive. Add to that he's a Stanford product and has good hips, I wouldn't be surprised if he starts at FS for us. I think he maybe a coverage type S, but I don't think he'll grab that many INTs. A ball-hawker he is not. All the talk about him playing OLB makes no sense to me at all.


That makes me feel a bit better about it. Thanks! Still not sold, that he is the answer we need, but having another guy to compete at safety isn't a bad thing. It will all work itself out on the field soon enough.

jlam
04-30-2007, 10:25 AM
Just to show how absolutely meaningless any of this draft "grading" jibberish really is, here (http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/story?id=2431855) are a bunch of grades from different sources (including the great Mel Kiper, Jr) on last year's draft. Take special not of Kiper grade for the Saints, everybody's grade for the Bears (Mark Anderson and Hester), and the ridiculously high grades for Arizona (Leinart is good, but who else? The lineman that fell?) and San Francisco (neither Vernon Davis nor Manny Lawson had a big impact, but injuries were a factor).

Nobody knows. You can speculate all you want, and it's a great way to pass the time until the season finally gets here, but don't get offended when an "expert" gives a seeminly low grade. Just take solice in knowing you could probably do as good a job grading the draft as they do.


Marshawn Lynch

Wasting idiotic amounts of money on a 4th straight project D-Lineman makes less sense than reaching for Lynch at 10.

Trading down for a CB and Leonard in the 2nd wouldn't be bad either

http://fcis.oise.utoronto.ca/~rchilds/ROLEPLAY/red_x_mark.jpg

Errant Hothy
04-30-2007, 10:33 AM
That makes me feel a bit better about it. Thanks! Still not sold, that he is the answer we need, but having another guy to compete at safety isn't a bad thing. It will all work itself out on the field soon enough.

I'm not sold on him being a great FS, but he may be a the best FS on our roster at the moment.

TexanSam
04-30-2007, 10:38 AM
I don't understand how you can grade a draft the day after. None of these players have played a down in the NFL. So unless you know the future, draft grades are meaningless. I bet the Texans had a good draft grade after our first ever draft. People were pretty high on drafting David Carr and Jabar Gaffney. Same with Travis Johnson in 2004 (he was supposedly the best DT on the board). That turned out well.

hollywood_texan
04-30-2007, 11:41 AM
Time will tell...

I will say this, the better Schuab is, the better the 2007 draft class will look.

So much is riding on Schuab to get the offense going and scoring some quality points on regular basis.

red_dirt
04-30-2007, 01:01 PM
OG plays on the O-Line, why do you think we need another Rb (we've got like 6 on the roster), and the QB comment is just stirring up ****.

I dub thee...troll, or at the very least somebody who doesn't follow this team very well.

two late round ogs isn't going to help much, 6 crappy rbs don't = 1 good one. Qb is more of a need now than ever. Shaub isn't a draft pick because he wasn't in the draft, he's a (bad) trade. You are right though, I don't follow this team, not blindly.

Errant Hothy
04-30-2007, 01:25 PM
SO do it, re-run the draft, let's see what a genius like yourself would select and when your done please tell me why you are not an NFL scout or GM.

Oh, and no going back to last year's draft, I'll let you void the Schaub trade but if you do that Carr is your starter.

I'm curious to see what you come up with.

The1ApplePie
04-30-2007, 01:35 PM
SO do it, re-run the draft, let's see what a genius like yourself would select and when your done please tell me why you are not an NFL scout or GM.

Oh, and no going back to last year's draft, I'll let you void the Schaub trade but if you do that Carr is your starter.

I'm curious to see what you come up with.

Keep Carr
Draft Quinn
Keep 2 2nd rounders

That sounds pretty good to me.

Moss was traded for a 4th
McCown (and Williams) was gotten with a 4th
Archuletta for a 5th!

I figure we could have landed Schaub for a 4th on draft day, since Pettrino wanted to get rid of him anyways. I think Schaub can be good, but we got hosed on the deal. Not to mention, we could have gotten Quinn, who has a bigger upside and less of a price tag.

Wolf
04-30-2007, 01:40 PM
Keep Carr
Draft Quinn
Keep 2 2nd rounders

That sounds pretty good to me.

Moss was traded for a 4th
McCown (and Williams) was gotten with a 4th
Archuletta for a 5th!

I figure we could have landed Schaub for a 4th on draft day, since Pettrino wanted to get rid of him anyways. I think Schaub can be good, but we got hosed on the deal. Not to mention, we could have gotten Quinn, who has a bigger upside and less of a price tag.

not directing anything at you, but could you imagine the stir that would have caused? ESPiN would have been laughing at us some more due to taking Quinn and not getting a Qb last year with the #1 overall

The1ApplePie
04-30-2007, 01:44 PM
We caught enough **** from ESPN about trading for Schaub.

Who cares what they say?

red_dirt
04-30-2007, 01:45 PM
lynch

then best 2 o-line we can

then wr, cb

badboy
04-30-2007, 01:53 PM
I concur somwhat with their comments.

Not having a second round pick limits them from the outset. You can't count Schaub as a draft choice because he wasn't. But we did give away two Day 1 picks to get him.

The Jones pick shows how desperate the Texans are at WR. It's a very risky pick for 73. Jones' bio sounds like he's not a Mathis in that he can actually run routes. We'll see. He could be boom or bust.

I'm good with Bennett, Frye, and Studdard. Don't have enough info on Harrison.

There's no way I could grade this draft above average but of course we'll have to wait to see who makes the team and what their impact is before we assign any real grade.

This is what I'm saying. AJ, I heard on 610 "the how to get out of your contract station" that Studdard may be looked at to play center? Any thoughts?

badboy
04-30-2007, 01:57 PM
A trade down for Hall in the first and maybe Jarrett in the 2nd would have been very nice!

Big upgrade on a D-Line filled with busts and overpaid flops, but the secondary is still Swiss Cheese like.

I said on the old board that the Texans should be banned from taking a D-lineman in the 1st for five years, but this could work out.This was my pre draft position. I really thought Green Bay would have wanted to pick @10 but maybe not enough to give up a 2nd round.

badboy
04-30-2007, 02:01 PM
I give the Texans a B grade becuase it's not Cass & Comp. running the show. We address DT, CB, & SS, OT, WR, & G! Heck, every player drafted in the NFL esp. in the later rds has weakneses! I really like Bennet & Harisson (SS), a big, strong 227lbs. almost built like a LB! Slowly, Kubiak & Smith are making this team their own! I can't wait till FA's & Preseason to start!:pirate:Signing a player that played a position in college we have a need for does not necessarily address that need. Uh, yes Harrison is a SS,it is unfortunate that we did not need a strong safety. We could have used depth at another position imo.

Kaiser Toro
04-30-2007, 02:06 PM
Keep Carr
Draft Quinn
Keep 2 2nd rounders

That sounds pretty good to me.

Moss was traded for a 4th
McCown (and Williams) was gotten with a 4th
Archuletta for a 5th!

I figure we could have landed Schaub for a 4th on draft day, since Pettrino wanted to get rid of him anyways. I think Schaub can be good, but we got hosed on the deal. Not to mention, we could have gotten Quinn, who has a bigger upside and less of a price tag.

I am very glad you are not running this team.

Vinny
04-30-2007, 02:09 PM
Keep Carr
Draft Quinn
Keep 2 2nd rounders

That sounds pretty good to me.

Moss was traded for a 4th
McCown (and Williams) was gotten with a 4th
Archuletta for a 5th!

I figure we could have landed Schaub for a 4th on draft day, since Pettrino wanted to get rid of him anyways. I think Schaub can be good, but we got hosed on the deal. Not to mention, we could have gotten Quinn, who has a bigger upside and less of a price tag.
Schaub was coveted by the Raiders and they would have traded for him and taken Calvin Johnson if we didn't get him...and no way the Falcons are giving him away for a second day pick. That's just so far from reality it's not even amusing or insightful in any way. Reality based takes tend to lend more credibility around here.

HoustonFrog
04-30-2007, 02:15 PM
Keep Carr
Draft Quinn
Keep 2 2nd rounders

That sounds pretty good to me.

Moss was traded for a 4th
McCown (and Williams) was gotten with a 4th
Archuletta for a 5th!

I figure we could have landed Schaub for a 4th on draft day, since Pettrino wanted to get rid of him anyways. I think Schaub can be good, but we got hosed on the deal. Not to mention, we could have gotten Quinn, who has a bigger upside and less of a price tag.

I'm not sure still if people realize how badly Carr needed to leave...lockerroom and all. You have to understand the "team" approach to things. Another story.....

Schaub was a highly coveted QB. We were looking at using our 2nd or 3rd on QB. So we did use a 2nd..on Schaub. We moved back 2 places in the draft. So overall we have lost a 2nd next year...I wouldn't call that giving up too much. I love how we gave up too much yet Cleveland was brilliant to give up a 1st next year to get a QB that slid into the 20s. Peter King today said a majority of clubs let him slide because he was closer to the pack then to Russell.

I said this in the Kiper thread...Realistically, I'm not going to fault people for ripping our draft. The last two years, and it was mentioned in todays paper and by you, could have produced a Bush/Quinn type scenario or a VY type scenario with the pick this year. All they see are projects and "safe" picks that don't seem to get us over the top. I'm not exactly jumping up and down about this draft. I love Okoye but wanted to move down. The other guys I won't judge or compare because I've yet to see them and knew nothing of them coming in. Considering how bad our talent level has been, who am I to judge. It is something where you need to see the guys plugged into our philosophy and see how they turn out. I was impressed with the moves many of our rivals made and think some went for broke. Overall I don't like to grade until I actually can see a guy in the system. Maybe I'm wrong but I think people blasting the Texans are just as bad as people blindly loving what we do. There has to be a happy medium where you trust the coaches and scouts but at the same time keep one eye open after these first 5 years.

Overall though, there is no way I'm second guessing until I don't see production. This is a big year.

hadaad
04-30-2007, 02:15 PM
Miller Lite salutes "Mr. Unrealistic Trade guy"

Wolf
04-30-2007, 02:19 PM
Falcons got the raw end of the deal when they are picking 64th in the 2nd round :heh: :joker:

red_dirt
04-30-2007, 02:38 PM
Schaub was coveted by the Raiders and they would have traded for him and taken Calvin Johnson if we didn't get him...and no way the Falcons are giving him away for a second day pick. That's just so far from reality it's not even amusing or insightful in any way. Reality based takes tend to lend more credibility around here.

Who cares what Oakland would have done, Schaub isn't an improvement. We couldve drafted for a real future qb while Carr led a team with a real rb and a o-line. Thats the real point. I doubt any team including the Raiders would have given so much for Schaub.

Wolf
04-30-2007, 02:48 PM
Who cares what Oakland would have done, Schaub isn't an improvement. We couldve drafted for a real future qb while Carr led a team with a real rb and a o-line. Thats the real point. I doubt any team including the Raiders would have given so much for Schaub.

I don't know if we know that yet.. Advantage of Schaub is he has sat and learned on the bench and has not taken a beating. Carr has taken a beating and I blame Capers and crew for ruining him ,but that is another story...besides if i am not mistaken the contract for Schaub is good enough that if he doesn't work out we aren't in real cap trouble
that's if i remember reading correctly about it

red_dirt
04-30-2007, 02:59 PM
Yeah maybe, but we lost valuable picks we could have used on building a team for a backup qb, then we released our starter without letting them compete to see who is better. Then we focused on d-line again, rather than build with good prospects.

Mr. White
04-30-2007, 03:02 PM
Keep Carr


This says it all right here. I didn't even bother reading the rest of the post.

Mr. White
04-30-2007, 03:06 PM
Who cares what Oakland would have done, Schaub isn't an improvement. We couldve drafted for a real future qb while Carr led a team with a real rb and a o-line.

Carr wasn't even the best QB on the roster last year. You'd probably rather be over here (http://www.carolinahuddle.com/forum/) with other people that love David Carr.

HoustonFrog
04-30-2007, 03:16 PM
Carr wasn't even the best QB on the roster last year. You'd probably rather be over here (http://www.carolinahuddle.com/forum/) with other people that love David Carr.

Not only that but I thought people finally smartened up and realized that the lockerroom needed some changes also. Another year here would have done nothing to get us moving forward. We really didn't give up that much.

Specnatz
04-30-2007, 03:17 PM
Yeah maybe, but we lost valuable picks we could have used on building a team for a backup qb, then we released our starter without letting them compete to see who is better. Then we focused on d-line again, rather than build with good prospects.

Team chemistry, is so important and the team neededa new direction and to completely part ways with the crapers and asserly days. It was best for the old QB and the new regim to move and part ways.

The Texan only lost one valuable pick not picks! What good prospects are you talking about? TJ, Maddox or Tim Bullman? Yeah ok and they have done what in the league to warrant calling them propects and not back-ups or a bust in TJ's case? Everyone keeps mentioning the 4 yrs in a row on the DL, but how well has Babin and TJ to warrant them not being replaced or upgraded and they can come off the bench?

Kaiser Toro
04-30-2007, 03:18 PM
Carr wasn't even the best QB on the roster last year. You'd probably rather be over here (http://www.carolinahuddle.com/forum/) with other people that love David Carr.

Wow! Did you see the smack forum? Stay classy Carolina.

The1ApplePie
04-30-2007, 03:30 PM
Schaub was coveted by the Raiders and they would have traded for him and taken Calvin Johnson if we didn't get him...and no way the Falcons are giving him away for a second day pick. That's just so far from reality it's not even amusing or insightful in any way. Reality based takes tend to lend more credibility around here.

How is Schaub better than Quinn and two 2nd rounders? He was projected by everyone before the Schaub trade to fall to us at 8.

If we could have gotten Plummer, then we would have taken Quinn, no question.

Build the defense all you want, but if you have a mediocre at best O-Line, no RB, one good WR, and a middle of the road QB, you aren't the Ravens or Bears, you're the Raiders.

Mr. White
04-30-2007, 03:31 PM
Wow! Did you see the smack forum? Stay classy Carolina.

You can get a good indication of how classy Carolina is just by looking at that banner.

red_dirt
04-30-2007, 03:38 PM
Team chemistry, is so important and the team neededa new direction and to completely part ways with the crapers and asserly days. It was best for the old QB and the new regim to move and part ways.

The Texan only lost one valuable pick not picks! What good prospects are you talking about? TJ, Maddox or Tim Bullman? Yeah ok and they have done what in the league to warrant calling them propects and not back-ups or a bust in TJ's case? Everyone keeps mentioning the 4 yrs in a row on the DL, but how well has Babin and TJ to warrant them not being replaced or upgraded and they can come off the bench?

I understood that houston lost a second round pick this year and 2008, I could be wrong though. I am not a player in the texans, so I'll have to take your word for it that he hurt team chemestry, since you obviously are a current starter on the texans. The 1st round had several good o-line prospects and a rb that would have improved production of this team. I am not saying we don't need d-line help, but it is cheaper to get d-line than o-line/rb in FA

Kaiser Toro
04-30-2007, 03:40 PM
How is Schaub better than Quinn and two 2nd rounders? He was projected by everyone before the Schaub trade to fall to us at 8.

If we could have gotten Plummer, then we would have taken Quinn, no question.

Build the defense all you want, but if you have a mediocre at best O-Line, no RB, one good WR, and a middle of the road QB, you aren't the Ravens or Bears, you're the Raiders.

Schaub and Okoye are greater than Quinn and second rounder this year and next year. Heck, even my cat knows that and he is a straight up Titan fan.

red_dirt
04-30-2007, 03:41 PM
Yes, I am right, 2nd round picks 2007 and 2008.

Wolf
04-30-2007, 03:43 PM
I understood that houston lost a second round pick this year and 2008, I could be wrong though. I am not a player in the texans, so I'll have to take your word for it that he hurt team chemestry, since you obviously are a current starter on the texans. The 1st round had several good o-line prospects and a rb that would have improved production of this team. I am not saying we don't need d-line help, but it is cheaper to get d-line than o-line/rb in FA
not sure
both OT's that were worth #10 were gone and I don't know about Ryan (center) being worth #10

but D-line help...geeze we couldn't get to the QB unless we had an all out blitz


but you have to keep in mind, trade downs work both ways.. we have to have a partner that is willing to move up on our terms not theirs

red_dirt
04-30-2007, 03:44 PM
Schaub and Okoye are greater than Quinn and second rounder this year and next year. Heck, even my cat knows that and he is a straight up Titan fan.

I don't see how a starter and two 2nd round picks is worse than a backup and one 1st.

red_dirt
04-30-2007, 03:46 PM
not sure
both OT's that were worth #10 were gone and I don't know about Ryan (center) being worth #10

but D-line help...geeze we couldn't get to the QB unless we had an all out blitz


but you have to keep in mind, trade downs work both ways.. we have to have a partner that is willing to move up on our terms not theirs

I still liked Lynch at #10, use 2nd round for o-line. If we have cap room use it in FA.

Wolf
04-30-2007, 03:47 PM
I don't see how a starter and two 2nd round picks is worse than a backup and one 1st.

because he is a starter now and not a backup?


we won't know this until the season starts on how schaub will do, no way to judge it.

I don't like giving up 2 #2 picks for a career backup to Michael vick, but Michael Vick wasn't going anywhere.

It wasn't like he was backing up Rex Grossman or anything..

we have to give it time

Kaiser Toro
04-30-2007, 03:50 PM
I don't see how a starter and two 2nd round picks is worse than a backup and one 1st.

I understand. The bovine brain is not as developed as a humans. :)

Seriously, Quinn has taken exactly zero snaps and practices in the NFL and no one saw value in him until the early 20's. Schaub commanded a franchise tag by the Falcons and then ultimately a trade with us.

Okoye and Quinn are a better comparision as we do not know how their careers will unfold. However, Okoye will start barring injury and Quinn will have to earn the position.

hadaad
04-30-2007, 04:14 PM
Seriously, Quinn has taken exactly zero snaps and practices in the NFL and no one saw value in him until the early 20's. Schaub commanded a franchise tag by the Falcons and then ultimately a trade with us.


FYI, the High RFA tender is not anywhere near a franchise tender, especially in the Quarterback class.

Compensation, they're a little close, 1st & 3rd instead of two 1sts but the salary is way waaaayyyyy different.

Double Barrel
04-30-2007, 04:14 PM
Yeah maybe, but we lost valuable picks we could have used on building a team for a backup qb, then we released our starter without letting them compete to see who is better. Then we focused on d-line again, rather than build with good prospects.

Kubiak did not want a backup QB making $8 million, especially when he had already tried for an entire season to make a decent QB out of said player.

If our previous starter was all that, then why did 31 other teams pass on a chance to grab him as a FA. Dude had to settle for a couple of offers for backup positions. The market speaks volumes. The real experts work for NFL teams, not networks.

Specnatz
04-30-2007, 04:15 PM
I understood that houston lost a second round pick this year and 2008, I could be wrong though. I am not a player in the texans, so I'll have to take your word for it that he hurt team chemestry, since you obviously are a current starter on the texans. The 1st round had several good o-line prospects and a rb that would have improved production of this team. I am not saying we don't need d-line help, but it is cheaper to get d-line than o-line/rb in FA

This proves you know nothing about a Team sport. Only starters know about team chemisty? Maybe with a lot of players saying that this is the best for both parties to move on and part ways, has something to do with my knowledge of that there needed to be a change for the chemistry of the team.

And no I am not a starter on the team, there for my opinion means absolutely nothing, sorry I wont post anymorebecause of starters on the Texans are allowd to post comments. :user:

hadaad
04-30-2007, 04:24 PM
I only have one problem with the Schaub trade and that's the amount of time it took from #10 to our third round pick. I don't care about the prospects that passed us by. I don't care about his unproven-ness or his backup status on the Falcons.

I just wanted some Texans drama during the second.

However, that day is done and our team is better now than it would have been if we'd picked in the second.

Besides, Schaub was drafted, what, four years ago? According to Jimmy Johnson's draft board, that makes him better than a first-rounder this year, doesn't it?

Kaiser Toro
04-30-2007, 04:26 PM
FYI, the High RFA tender is not anywhere near a franchise tender, especially in the Quarterback class.

Compensation, they're a little close, 1st & 3rd instead of two 1sts but the salary is way waaaayyyyy different.

Thanks for catching that, I meant RFA.

GuerillaBlack
04-30-2007, 05:00 PM
Wow! Did you see the smack forum? Stay classy Carolina.
Wow, this site is like porno. Look at this thread:

Link (http://www.carolinahuddle.com/forum/smack-central/49052-mike-vick-should-suspended.html#post916394)

Twitch-Houston
04-30-2007, 05:15 PM
Man was that link to Vivid Video's forum?

No class there for sure.

red_dirt
05-01-2007, 07:28 AM
because he is a starter now and not a backup?


we won't know this until the season starts on how schaub will do, no way to judge it.

I don't like giving up 2 #2 picks for a career backup to Michael vick, but Michael Vick wasn't going anywhere.

It wasn't like he was backing up Rex Grossman or anything..

we have to give it time

He is a backup in talent, I know his current position is starter. A good backup, but not a starter. I'd rather have had Grossman.

red_dirt
05-01-2007, 07:34 AM
I never said take Quinn, he would have been a better future investment than Schaub though. The problems houston has is the same as Detroit, they keep adressing the same issue the same way and getting the same result. Detroit focuses on WR, houston focuses on D-line. Niether team gets anywhere despite new coaches, FA QBs etc. At what point does someone say enough.

red_dirt
05-01-2007, 07:38 AM
Kubiak did not want a backup QB making $8 million, especially when he had already tried for an entire season to make a decent QB out of said player.

If our previous starter was all that, then why did 31 other teams pass on a chance to grab him as a FA. Dude had to settle for a couple of offers for backup positions. The market speaks volumes. The real experts work for NFL teams, not networks.

Every team waited because they knew houston couldn't keep 2 multimillion dollar QB's on the roster. They just waited for him to be released. As for where he ended up, he probably chose a team with an o-line so he could have a breather between cocusions. I hope he gave Schaub the # of his neurologist.

red_dirt
05-01-2007, 07:44 AM
This proves you know nothing about a Team sport. Only starters know about team chemisty? Maybe with a lot of players saying that this is the best for both parties to move on and part ways, has something to do with my knowledge of that there needed to be a change for the chemistry of the team.

And no I am not a starter on the team, there for my opinion means absolutely nothing, sorry I wont post anymorebecause of starters on the Texans are allowd to post comments. :user:

Good dont bother me with BS about inside the locker room stuff you don't know anything about. If you make a statement about what goes on behind closed doors, make damn sure you have been there and know what it is you are talking about. I would never pretend to know what goes on in the closed rooms of any major business I am not a part of. To step in and speak for a team you aren't a member of is ignorant.

Specnatz
05-01-2007, 09:51 AM
Good dont bother me with BS about inside the locker room stuff you don't know anything about. If you make a statement about what goes on behind closed doors, make damn sure you have been there and know what it is you are talking about. I would never pretend to know what goes on in the closed rooms of any major business I am not a part of. To step in and speak for a team you aren't a member of is ignorant.

Not when you go by what every everyone is saying and this includes the Coach, Plasyer and the freakin GM. But I guess they do not know anything either, right? Ya know this line of thinking is great, if everyone took this approach Enron would still be operating with business as usual.

Shaft75
05-01-2007, 10:43 AM
Good dont bother me with BS about inside the locker room stuff you don't know anything about. If you make a statement about what goes on behind closed doors, make damn sure you have been there and know what it is you are talking about. I would never pretend to know what goes on in the closed rooms of any major business I am not a part of. To step in and speak for a team you aren't a member of is ignorant.

Most annoying poster of the week...
Red Dirt!
Most meaningless post of the week...
Red Dirt!

Seriously man, nobody on here is a Texans player. Why even bring this up?

Specnatz
05-01-2007, 11:00 AM
Most annoying poster of the week...
Red Dirt!
Most meaningless post of the week...
Red Dirt!

Seriously man, nobody on here is a Texans player. Why even bring this up?

I used to be the laundry guy there but I got fired when I put extra starch in Travis johnson's jockstrap. When asked why I did that and told him I thought he wanted it just like how he played, stiff.

:hides:

red_dirt
05-01-2007, 11:28 AM
Not when you go by what every everyone is saying and this includes the Coach, Plasyer and the freakin GM. But I guess they do not know anything either, right? Ya know this line of thinking is great, if everyone took this approach Enron would still be operating with business as usual.

Well, I stand corrected, I've only heard of one player comming out with a public dislike of Carr. If you say Kubiak, the players and Smith have all come to media outlets and declared that Carr had a bad attitude and he personally affected the morale of the team, I'll take your word for it. I just haven't seen these things myself, and like I said, I'm not a player so I won't speak for them. They did take this aproach to Enron, innocent until proven guilty.

real
05-01-2007, 11:35 AM
Well, I stand corrected, I've only heard of one player comming out with a public dislike of Carr. If you say Kubiak, the players and Smith have all come to media outlets and declared that Carr had a bad attitude and he personally affected the morale of the team, I'll take your word for it. I just haven't seen these things myself, and like I said, I'm not a player so I won't speak for them. They did take this aproach to Enron, innocent until proven guilty.

lol...how hard is it to figure out ? Either you're in serious denial, or your context clue recognition needs some work....

red_dirt
05-01-2007, 11:48 AM
I guess so....you could pick either one. I just never saw how Carr was the source of EVERY problem in houston. At least with him gone someone else will be held responsible.

real
05-01-2007, 11:53 AM
I guess so....you could pick either one. I just never saw how Carr was the source of EVERY problem in houston. At least with him gone someone else will be held responsible.

I don't understand this argument. Why does a player have to be the source of "EVERY" problem to be gotten rid of ?He played bad/terrible for most of his tenure in Houston. Theres no way around that. We've cut players before that weren't the source of "EVERY" problem why should Carr have been any different ?

red_dirt
05-01-2007, 12:26 PM
Alot of the problems that houston has will go on without him (batted down passes, sacks, dropped passes, no run game, short yardage passes, etc), he didn't cause those problems, he had to try to overcome them. He played badly because his team constantly put him in bad positions and forced him to overcompensate. He tried to play beyond his ability to make up for the shortcommings of the team. Like I said, its good that he is gone, he should have asked for a trade last year, (I would have) but now someone else will get blamed for the same problems (Kubiak at first, then Schaub). Its just like Detroit.

Errant Hothy
05-01-2007, 12:33 PM
Carr was the cause of most of the batted down passes, most of the sacks (somebody brought up the Philly game from last year, where Carr had 6 seconds, or in other words forever, in the pocket and failed to make a completion, failed to find the check down receiver, failed to get teh ball out of bounds, failed to make a run to pick up positive yardage; instead he got sacked), his inability to get the ball downfeild directly lead to temas putting 8 or more in the box and stuffing the run, and the fact that David could only seem to consistently complete the short yardage passes lead to them being called. The previous coaching staff also deserves a good chunk of the blame.

Shaft75
05-01-2007, 12:45 PM
Alot of the problems that houston has will go on without him (batted down passes, sacks, dropped passes, no run game, short yardage passes, etc), he didn't cause those problems, he had to try to overcome them. He played badly because his team constantly put him in bad positions and forced him to overcompensate. He tried to play beyond his ability to make up for the shortcommings of the team. Like I said, its good that he is gone, he should have asked for a trade last year, (I would have) but now someone else will get blamed for the same problems (Kubiak at first, then Schaub). Its just like Detroit.

WHAT??? Seriously dude... Are you talking about the same David Carr I am??? Overcompensate???
The guy was a terrible qb with some athleticism. Let it go, he is gone for several reasons. And yes, cutting him has solved most of the problems you are talking about. No more fumbles or batted down passes or dump-offs. We have a real NFL qb now. Schaub can read defenses, make audibles, and has the height to get the ball out high = no batted down balls. Quit being such a troll.

Double Barrel
05-01-2007, 12:50 PM
Every team waited because they knew houston couldn't keep 2 multimillion dollar QB's on the roster. They just waited for him to be released. As for where he ended up, he probably chose a team with an o-line so he could have a breather between cocusions. I hope he gave Schaub the # of his neurologist.

So beyond the two teams we know about - Carolina & Oakland - what other teams were interested in Carr as a backup QB?

I won't ask what teams wanted him as a starter, because you'll never be able to reply. You slam Shaub for being a backup to Vick, but then defend Carr after five years of starting and then becomes a backup. That's some strange logic, if it exists at all.

What I don't understand is why won't some folks give Shaub the same benefit of the doubt that was afforded to Carr for five seasons. Man-crushes must cloud abilities to think rationally (but I wouldn't know, because I've never had one).

As far as Carr "choosing" a team with an o-line, we will find out if that makes a difference or not.

eriadoc
05-01-2007, 02:00 PM
Alot of the problems that houston has will go on without him (batted down passes, sacks, dropped passes, no run game, short yardage passes, etc), he didn't cause those problems, he had to try to overcome them. He played badly because his team constantly put him in bad positions and forced him to overcompensate. He tried to play beyond his ability to make up for the shortcommings of the team. Like I said, its good that he is gone, he should have asked for a trade last year, (I would have) but now someone else will get blamed for the same problems (Kubiak at first, then Schaub). Its just like Detroit.

Hulk? Is that you?

red_dirt
05-01-2007, 02:09 PM
I was under the understanding that Cleavland, and Oakland were looking at him as a starter, Minnesota, Miami and Detroit were looking at him to compete for a starting job, and Carolina and Seattle wanted him as a backup. I give it to you, I've been hard on Schaub, he could come in and really be it. I've been wrong before, I just haven't been impressed so far. As far as seeing if Carolina's line fits, I doubt we will without an injury, Carolina has already stated there will be no competition, Delhomme starts. I may be looking at it in a messed up way, but I thought it was a bad team with a good qb/wr duo. Now is the time to see if I am wrong, team success= I'm an *****, team failure= maybe not so dumb.

76Texan
05-01-2007, 02:09 PM
Carr wasn't even the best QB on the roster last year. You'd probably rather be over here (http://www.carolinahuddle.com/forum/) with other people that love David Carr.

I like red_dirt.
And IMO, Carr wasnt a bad QB.
He hasn't been worth a 1st round pick, but he's not bad.
The Panthers wouldnt pay that much if they don't like the option.
Heck, Garcia will be making less if he doesnt lead the Bucs to the play-off (his contract is incentive based).

Mr. White
05-01-2007, 02:15 PM
Hulk? Is that you?

Probably not. But I'd be willing to bet that it's somebody that we already know.

real
05-01-2007, 02:23 PM
Alot of the problems that houston has will go on without him (batted down passes, sacks, dropped passes, no run game, short yardage passes, etc), he didn't cause those problems, he had to try to overcome them. He played badly because his team constantly put him in bad positions and forced him to overcompensate. He tried to play beyond his ability to make up for the shortcommings of the team. Like I said, its good that he is gone, he should have asked for a trade last year, (I would have) but now someone else will get blamed for the same problems (Kubiak at first, then Schaub). Its just like Detroit.

Lets pretend that nothing Carr did wrong was his fault. Let's pretend he was perfect, and everyone else sucked. Even if you take it to those extremes it still doesn't changed the universal fact that Carr played terrible right along with them. There is no reasonable argument that you can bring to the table in favor of keeping players who are clearly underperforming....period...What others did around him doesn't matter...he played bad...he was cut....if they play bad....they'll be cut....simple....

HoustonFrog
05-01-2007, 02:29 PM
Alot of the problems that houston has will go on without him (batted down passes, sacks, dropped passes, no run game, short yardage passes, etc), he didn't cause those problems, he had to try to overcome them. He played badly because his team constantly put him in bad positions and forced him to overcompensate. He tried to play beyond his ability to make up for the shortcommings of the team. Like I said, its good that he is gone, he should have asked for a trade last year, (I would have) but now someone else will get blamed for the same problems (Kubiak at first, then Schaub). Its just like Detroit.

Dude, wake up. Minnesotas coach and others tore his game apart because of his release point and said point blank that many of his tipped balls were his fault. He took sacks when he was oputside the pocket and the run game won them their last two games while they took the ball out of his hands. I'm not sure who you have been watching. DD was getting yards too during the lean years...well they all have been. Short yardage passes...most play calls have different routes. If you are throwing to the short safety valve everytime, then you plain aren't looking. He WAS one of the shortcomings of the team, not just trying to make up for them. He was part of the whole and alot of the whole was bad, himself included.

76Texan
05-01-2007, 02:31 PM
Schaub and Okoye are greater than Quinn and second rounder this year and next year. Heck, even my cat knows that and he is a straight up Titan fan.

Probably, but the scenario is not quite that.

#8 = 1400 #22 = 780
#41 = 490 #10 = 1,300

the difference is 190 points.

Next year 2nd, is worth this year 3rd, approximately.
Let say mid round #81
Thats 185 points.

Even the last pick in the 3rd (#96) is worth 116 points.
And, god forbids, #65 is 265 points.

But I would rather that we sign Garcia for less money than we signed Schaub.
(I quoted the whole article on this board before - USA Today) Bucs signed quarterback Jeff Garcia to a two-year, $7 million contract. The deal can be worth up to $14.5 million (The incentive is met if Garcia can lead the Bucs to the play-offs both year.)

Trade down and still get Okoye and pick up Kolb in the 2nd (point value is there), if anything we still have next yr 2nd to dangle around.

Errant Hothy
05-01-2007, 02:43 PM
I was under the understanding that Cleavland, and Oakland were looking at him as a starter, Minnesota, Miami and Detroit were looking at him to compete for a starting job, and Carolina and Seattle wanted him as a backup. I give it to you, I've been hard on Schaub, he could come in and really be it. I've been wrong before, I just haven't been impressed so far. As far as seeing if Carolina's line fits, I doubt we will without an injury, Carolina has already stated there will be no competition, Delhomme starts. I may be looking at it in a messed up way, but I thought it was a bad team with a good qb/wr duo. Now is the time to see if I am wrong, team success= I'm an *****, team failure= maybe not so dumb.

And yet, David Carr who we are lead believe wanted to be a starter signed with a team that he had very little chance to start with. Minnesota publicly express their disintrest, Oakland made no move, and you would have thought that a No-Cal boy would have gone back to No-Cal, espically with a chance to start and having Calvin Johnsoj to throw to (and we know that if Oak had signed Carr they wouldn't have drafted Russell). Miami didn't make much of an effort. Seattle, no movement there either. So Carr went to Carolina where he'll back up Delhomme.

Schaub + Okoye > whomever @ #8 + Whomever @ #39(I think)+ Carr

Double Barrel
05-01-2007, 02:45 PM
But I would rather that we sign Garcia for less money than we signed Schaub.
(I quoted the whole article on this board before - USA Today) Bucs signed quarterback Jeff Garcia to a two-year, $7 million contract. The deal can be worth up to $14.5 million (The incentive is met if Garcia can lead the Bucs to the play-offs both year.)

What makes you think that Garcia would have signed with the Texans? From what I recall, he wanted nothing to do with Houston. If we were to sign some old, washed up QB, then Jake Plummer would have been our man.

And a big no thank you to both of those guys. I'll take my chances with a Kubiak-backed Shaub.

hadaad
05-01-2007, 02:54 PM
But don't the fans know more about who is preferable and worth what picks than the FO?

I mean, I wanted our second-rounder this year. It was a heck of a wait between noon and really, really late when they finally picked Jacoby Jones.

And hey, Jacoby Jones wasn't even on my mock! Oh wait, I didn't do a mock.

And now I will have to wait through round two next year and they probably won't pick who I expect after that long, long wait either.

And who knows? I might even do a mock next year!

red_dirt
05-01-2007, 02:58 PM
And yet, David Carr who we are lead believe wanted to be a starter signed with a team that he had very little chance to start with. Minnesota publicly express their disintrest, Oakland made no move, and you would have thought that a No-Cal boy would have gone back to No-Cal, espically with a chance to start and having Calvin Johnsoj to throw to (and we know that if Oak had signed Carr they wouldn't have drafted Russell). Miami didn't make much of an effort. Seattle, no movement there either. So Carr went to Carolina where he'll back up Delhomme.

Schaub + Okoye > whomever @ #8 + Whomever @ #39(I think)+ Carr


Really.... I did not hear that Minnesota expressed public disinterest, I heard talks didn't get far. Oakland, I understand made an offer that Houston wasn't interested in. Miami didn't make much effort, but Seattle invited him out to talk. It was the day after he went to Carolina, whatever the Panthers said convinced him though, because he signed with them the next day, I believe. We have been reading conflicting reports, I believe.

infantrycak
05-01-2007, 02:59 PM
What makes you think that Garcia would have signed with the Texans? From what I recall, he wanted nothing to do with Houston.

Sure he would have signed with the Texans--if they out bid the Bucs. Someone explain how $7 mil which could be $14 over two years with $5 mil paid in the first year is cheaper than $2.16 mil for Schaub this year?

76Texan
05-01-2007, 03:04 PM
What makes you think that Garcia would have signed with the Texans? From what I recall, he wanted nothing to do with Houston. If we were to sign some old, washed up QB, then Jake Plummer would have been our man.

And a big no thank you to both of those guys. I'll take my chances with a Kubiak-backed Shaub.

We can agree to disagree then.
I would rather have Kolb as the future.
(But as long as Schaub is here, I will support him, I won't be so demanding as some Vince Young fans.)

Of course, all this is just talk 'cause we cannot reverse the course of time.

On a side note, I would rather that you quote a sourse saying Garcia wants nothing to do with Houston. And also, for all we know, there may be stunts by sport agents to up the ante for their client.

hadaad
05-01-2007, 03:05 PM
Really.... I did not hear that Minnesota expressed public disinterest, I heard talks didn't get far. Oakland, I understand made an offer that Houston wasn't interested in. Miami didn't make much effort, but Seattle invited him out to talk. It was the day after he went to Carolina, whatever the Panthers said convinced him though, because he signed with them the next day, I believe. We have been reading conflicting reports, I believe.

Brad Childress came out and said that he believed Carr had a hitch in his motion and couldn't make all the throws. He also said he was not interested in a quarterback who could not make all the throws.

I made the joke that it was an effort to bring the price down and Vinny made fun of me.

Then I ate ice cream and everything was okay.

76Texan
05-01-2007, 03:06 PM
Sure he would have signed with the Texans--if they out bid the Bucs. Someone explain how $7 mil which could be $14 over two years with $5 mil paid in the first year is cheaper than $2.16 mil for Schaub this year?
Can you lay down the whole contract, instead of just mentioning $2.16 M.
So what's the good if you cut him?
Is that saving money?

red_dirt
05-01-2007, 03:08 PM
Brad Childress came out and said that he believed Carr had a hitch in his motion and couldn't make all the throws. He also said he was not interested in a quarterback who could not make all the throws.

I made the joke that it was an effort to bring the price down and Vinny made fun of me.

Then I ate ice cream and everything was okay.

Your wisdom is unmatched, ice cream it is.

See you clowns later.................

hadaad
05-01-2007, 03:09 PM
Your wisdom is unmatched.

I'm going to quote you on that.


Oh wait, just did.

Errant Hothy
05-01-2007, 03:13 PM
Really.... I did not hear that Minnesota expressed public disinterest, I heard talks didn't get far. Oakland, I understand made an offer that Houston wasn't interested in. Miami didn't make much effort, but Seattle invited him out to talk. It was the day after he went to Carolina, whatever the Panthers said convinced him though, because he signed with them the next day, I believe. We have been reading conflicting reports, I believe.

When asked about Carr during a radio appearance on KFAN, Childress wasn't exactly complimentary. Here's what he said, courtesy of the Star-Tribune's Vikings Blog.

"I always struggled with where his release came from," Childress said. "It's kind of a drop-down, three-quarter, not overhand, over-the-top release. Just in the tape I've watched in the four years he's been in the league, he can make some of the throws, he can't make all the throws. He gets some balls batted at the line of scrimmage just because of where that ball comes from. A little more difficult to throw in the seam throws because it doesn't come from over the top. He can't get a ball to get out of his hand, get up and get down. He's a smart guy, he's a decent athlete but when you're buying a quarterback at this level and you kick the tires, there shouldn't be a lot of things that you're trying to straighten out. You pick a Carr, you pick a quarterback because you like all the things about him. When you're picking him that high, you don't want to feel like there are any perceived flaws."

That doesn't sound like a coach sold on adding the veteran QB. And it's hard to argue his point about Carr's release point, check it out in the photo at the right--he slings it more instead of the over-the-top release teams look for. That by itself doesn't mean Carr couldn't be a solid QB--Rich Gannon slung the ball successfully, but it does make it tougher for him.

http://texans.aolsportsblog.com/2007/03/22/childress-doesnt-sound-like-a-carr-fan/

Oakland made a low ball offer to the Texans for Carr, and out of respect to Carr the Texans rejected all offers and released him (partially because they were being offered junk for Carr...I wonder why?)

Carr chose to go to a team where he would be the back-up and not the starter; and as ofr Miami or Oakland if they were really interested they could have made enough of an offer to atleast get Carr to visit.

Specnatz
05-01-2007, 03:15 PM
Can you lay down the whole contract, instead of just mentioning $2.16 M.
So what's the good if you cut him?
Is that saving money?

If I remember correctly, it is a 2 year deal and then there is a roster bonus that kicks in the remainder of the contract. It also might be if he earns certain incentives for it to kick in (this part I am not sure of).

infantrycak
05-01-2007, 03:17 PM
Can you lay down the whole contract, instead of just mentioning $2.16 M.
So what's the good if you cut him?
Is that saving money?

The most payroll Schaub can account for over the next two years, i.e. salary for 2007 and 2008 plus all of his signing bonus is $12.9 mil. Garcia can get up to $14.5 mil over the same time and if he isn't going to get that then basically you are predicting he isn't going to perform well. One is a QB with at least potential beyond 2 years, the other is not and leaves you up in the air once again.

76Texan
05-01-2007, 03:31 PM
The most payroll Schaub can account for over the next two years, i.e. salary for 2007 and 2008 plus all of his signing bonus is $12.9 mil. Garcia can get up to $14.5 mil over the same time and if he isn't going to get that then basically you are predicting he isn't going to perform well. One is a QB with at least potential beyond 2 years, the other is not and leaves you up in the air once again.

I read it differently.
Let's say if we go by Keith's cap figure.
The bonus is $1.167 lay out over 6 years for a total of $7M that are money out of pocket.

His base salary this year is $950K.

And next year it will be $4.95M

So if we cut him after 1 yr, it costs us almost $8M,
and after 2 years, it costs $13M

And he doesnt have to lead us to the play-off.
heck, he might even be on IR.

infantrycak
05-01-2007, 03:37 PM
So your difference is between $12.9 mil and $13 mil over two years?--by the way, the former is the accurate one.

76Texan
05-01-2007, 03:38 PM
So your difference is between $12.9 mil and $13 mil over two years?--by the way, the former is the accurate one.
No the difference is the play-offs! :splits: :splits:

hadaad
05-01-2007, 03:46 PM
So you're basically saying that because Garcia gets escalators if he gets the Bucs to the playoffs, he'd be guaranteed to get us to the playoffs, and Matt Schaub will be on the IR?

I don't get it.

76Texan
05-01-2007, 03:54 PM
So you're basically saying that because Garcia gets escalators if he gets the Bucs to the playoffs, he'd be guaranteed to get us to the playoffs, and Matt Schaub will be on the IR?

I don't get it.

Schaub can put $8M in his pocket this year even if we have another mediocre season, that is, he doesnt have to prove a thing!

And please, I don't need no spinning, thank you!

hadaad
05-01-2007, 03:59 PM
I'm not spinning anything. Someone asked you what the difference was and you said the difference was the playoffs.

Okay, maybe I was over the top with the Schaub on the IR thing, I'll admit that.

But there are some things that have to be considered:
1) Garcia would have to agree to a contract with us.
2) Garcia would have to agree to the same contract he agreed to with the Bucs.
3) If Garcia doesn't take us to the playoffs, sure, we don't pay him as much but we still don't make the stinkin' playoffs.

Kubiak wanted Schaub. I trust Kubiak. I'll take Schaub.

Shaft75
05-01-2007, 04:01 PM
Come on 76....

How can you think that way? You would rather have a little 30-something year-old, redhead at qb than having a big strong youthful guy back there?

That is how you have to look at it...:throwball:

HoustonFrog
05-01-2007, 04:04 PM
Really.... I did not hear that Minnesota expressed public disinterest, I heard talks didn't get far. Oakland, I understand made an offer that Houston wasn't interested in. Miami didn't make much effort, but Seattle invited him out to talk. It was the day after he went to Carolina, whatever the Panthers said convinced him though, because he signed with them the next day, I believe. We have been reading conflicting reports, I believe.


Here ya go

http://texans.aolsportsblog.com/2007/03/22/childress-doesnt-sound-like-a-carr-fan/

76Texan
05-01-2007, 04:04 PM
I'm not spinning anything. Someone asked you what the difference was and you said the difference was the playoffs.

Okay, maybe I was over the top with the Schaub on the IR thing, I'll admit that.

But there are some things that have to be considered:
1) Garcia would have to agree to a contract with us.
2) Garcia would have to agree to the same contract he agreed to with the Bucs.
3) If Garcia doesn't take us to the playoffs, sure, we don't pay him as much but we still don't make the stinkin' playoffs.

Kubiak wanted Schaub. I trust Kubiak. I'll take Schaub.
I thought most people are tired of the free RIDE!???

76Texan
05-01-2007, 04:05 PM
Come on 76....

How can you think that way? You would rather have a little 30-something year-old, redhead at qb than having a big strong youthful guy back there?

That is how you have to look at it...:throwball:hahahaha :wild: :whip: :splits:

infantrycak
05-01-2007, 04:05 PM
No the difference is the play-offs! :splits: :splits:

He had a nice little 4 game run last year (after starting with 2 losses to TN and Indy)--hardly grounds for anointing him a QB who will single handedly elevate a team to the playoffs. This followed on the heels of a one year stint competing with Kelly Holcomb (where neither won the starting job for the next year and he was replaced by Trent Dilfer) and another one year stint going up against Joey Harrington (where neither could win the job and he was replaced by Kitna).

76Texan
05-01-2007, 04:11 PM
He had a nice little 4 game run last year (after starting with 2 losses to TN and Indy)--hardly grounds for anointing him a QB who will single handedly elevate a team to the playoffs. This followed on the heels of a one year stint competing with Kelly Holcomb (where neither won the starting job for the next year and he was replaced by Trent Dilfer) and another one year stint going up against Joey Harrington (where neither could win the job and he was replaced by Kitna).
Can we proclaim that Schaub will be the one who takes us to the play-offs?

I'm sorry, but I have to say no.
Schaub is unproven.
I would rather go with a vet and mold a youngster as a franchise QB.

Now let it be known here, that there will be no excuse for Schaub.
The FOs did well this off-season to bolster our roster.
It's still a bit early to start predicting, but with this level of talent, the Texans now should be able to compete for a play-off spot.

real
05-01-2007, 04:12 PM
Schaub can put $8M in his pocket this year even if we have another mediocre season, that is, he doesnt have to prove a thing!

And please, I don't need no spinning, thank you!

What kind of thinking is this ?

This same exact argument can be used for buying a cheap parachute over an expensive one...I can just see the wheels turning in your head using this logic...

"Even though the expensive one is more likely to get me to the ground safely, I'm going to grab the cheap one because if it malfuntions I can get my money back !!!"
:ohsnap:

HOU-TEX
05-01-2007, 04:19 PM
Can we proclaim that Schaub will be the one who takes us to the play-offs?

I'm sorry, but I have to say no.
Schaub is unproven.
I would rather go with a vet and mold a youngster as a franchise QB.

Now let it be known here, that there will be no excuse for Schaub.
The FOs did well this off-season to bolster our roster.
It's still a bit early to start predicting, but with this level of talent, the Texans now should be able to compete for a play-off spot.

Let us not forget that Kubiak was a professional QB turned coach. How much more of a vet can you get? Schaub has had 3 years of coaching without taking any hits. Paired with Kubiak he should blossom.:)

76Texan
05-01-2007, 04:20 PM
What kind of thinking is this ?

This same exact argument can be used for buying a cheap parachute over an expensive one...I can just see the wheels turning in your head using this logic...

"Even though the expensive one is more likely to get me to the ground safely, I'm going to grab the cheap one because if it malfuntions I can get my money back !!!"
:ohsnap:
what kind of thinking is this?

ya gonna buy a chute that has no performance or reliability record over one that is already well-known?

all the while, you can also get a newer model that shows more potential for performance. :cowboy1:

76Texan
05-01-2007, 04:22 PM
Let us not forget that Kubiak was a professional QB turned coach. How much more of a vet can you get? Schaub has had 3 years of coaching without taking any hits. Paired with Kubiak he should blossom.:)

can we say the same with Carr having 4 year stating experience and was coached by the same guy ya mention in his 5th year?

Errant Hothy
05-01-2007, 04:25 PM
what kind of thinking is this?

ya gonna buy a chute that has no performance or reliability record over one that is already well-known?

all the while, you can also get a newer model that shows more potential for performance. :cowboy1:

So let me quess you want Quinn, or Kolb, or Beck over Schaub?

You seriously under value Schaub's three years of just being in the NFL.

Honoring Earl 34
05-01-2007, 04:26 PM
can we say the same with Carr having 4 year stating experience and was coached by the same guy ya mention in his 5th year?

You have to give Kubiak a fighting chance ... come on now .

Right now sight unseen ... i'm willing to say Schaub is better than Carr .

infantrycak
05-01-2007, 04:27 PM
I would rather go with a vet and mold a youngster as a franchise QB.

That little and in there also makes your money arguments silly. It is Schaub vs. Garcia plus the youngster.

also get a newer model that shows more potential for performance. :cowboy1:

Really--who are all these QB's that show more potential than Schaub?

HOU-TEX
05-01-2007, 04:29 PM
can we say the same with Carr having 4 year stating experience and was coached by the same guy ya mention in his 5th year?

No, not even close to a comparision. Carr's rookie year was as a starter for an expansion team. By the time Kubiak came along, DC was done. Schaub was brought in to a proven team and sat as a back up compiling knowledge and understanding of the game. :shades:

Honoring Earl 34
05-01-2007, 04:35 PM
I wonder if Atlanta would like a do over about now ? I'm thinking yes .

Schaub has ran the WCO for six years ... he knew the offense better than Vick . So you have a young QB who has six years in your offense . That's better than any rookie you could have drafted ... maybe not talent wise ... talents not what causes a QB to be a bust .

hadaad
05-01-2007, 04:36 PM
Can we proclaim that Schaub will be the one who takes us to the play-offs?

I'm sorry, but I have to say no.
Schaub is unproven.
I would rather go with a vet and mold a youngster as a franchise QB.

Now let it be known here, that there will be no excuse for Schaub.
The FOs did well this off-season to bolster our roster.
It's still a bit early to start predicting, but with this level of talent, the Texans now should be able to compete for a play-off spot.

I agree. We should be in the running for a wild-card spot. I'm not saying they'll win the division or even make the playoffs but going into the last week with a shot at the playoffs is definitely in our reach.

76Texan
05-01-2007, 04:39 PM
That little and in there also makes your money arguments silly. It is Schaub vs. Garcia plus the youngster.



Really--who are all these QB's that show more potential than Schaub?

why silly?
we all know that a vet like Garcia is toward the end of his career.

(Yes, i will take my homeboy Kolb over Schaub or Quinn in the long run. We all are entitled to our own opinion. IMO, Kolb has more of that "IT".)

A second rounder like Kolb probably command around $3.5M in signing bonus in a 4 year contract (I'm going by Demeco value here, he was a higher pick, but this is a year later) and about $400K in base salary.

If Garcia has something left in his tank, we'll gladly pay him the money.
At worst, his records shows that he can compete, and we just pay him the money to tutor young Kolb.

76Texan
05-01-2007, 04:42 PM
I wonder if Atlanta would like a do over about now ? I'm thinking yes .

Schaub has ran the WCO for six years ... he knew the offense better than Vick . So you have a young QB who has six years in your offense . That's better than any rookie you could have drafted ... maybe not talent wise ... talents not what causes a QB to be a bust .

Lemme ask ya something very frankly.

before we trade for Schaub, let's say any time last year, did you ever imagine Schaub as a franchise QB?

Errant Hothy
05-01-2007, 04:43 PM
Yes, the intrest in Schaub, or the thinking that all he need (to become a star) was a chance to start is nothing new.

real
05-01-2007, 04:46 PM
Lemme ask ya something very frankly.

before we trade for Schaub, let's say any time last year, did you ever imagine Schaub as a franchise QB?



How many guys have been viewed as franchise QB's and turned out not to be, and how many guys were never thought of as franchise QB's but turned into them ?

infantrycak
05-01-2007, 04:46 PM
Lemme ask ya something very frankly.

before we trade for Schaub, let's say any time last year, did you ever imagine Schaub as a franchise QB?

Yes, and not just Texans fans. There were 3 teams that called up the Falcons last year before Schaub was even a RFA and offered the Falcons the high tender compensation for him, i.e. a 1st and 3rd. The prior Falcons staff wouldn't go for it.

76Texan
05-01-2007, 04:47 PM
Yes, the intrest in Schaub, or the thinking that all he need (to become a star) was a chance to start is nothing new.Well, I've heard the fans and the media of the Falcons go both way.
Some said, "maybe" the wrond QB was traded, and ya have to read a bit of frustration there, similar to the Carr's situation. And then, there are others in Atlanta who said that the Falcons did well in that trade.

Even the first camp refrained from saying that they see Schaub as the savior.

Honoring Earl 34
05-01-2007, 04:47 PM
Lemme ask ya something very frankly.

before we trade for Schaub, let's say any time last year, did you ever imagine Schaub as a franchise QB?

Schaub was a hot commodity ... it does'nt guarantee he'll be good but we'll know by the start of the season .

Garcia would be a temporary fix and then you'd bank on a rookie being the real deal .

76Texan
05-01-2007, 04:49 PM
Yes, and not just Texans fans. There were 3 teams that called up the Falcons last year before Schaub was even a RFA and offered the Falcons the high tender compensation for him, i.e. a 1st and 3rd. The prior Falcons staff wouldn't go for it.
Link please!

hadaad
05-01-2007, 04:50 PM
Lemme ask ya something very frankly.

before we trade for Schaub, let's say any time last year, did you ever imagine Schaub as a franchise QB?

I thought he would be a solid starter - a guy like Trent Green, Brad Johnson or something like that. I don't think he's a threat to break the single-season passing records or anything but I think he'll be consistent, accurate, smart and keep the chains moving on third down. If that's a franchise guy, then yeah, I guess so.

real
05-01-2007, 04:50 PM
Well, I've heard the fans and the media of the Falcons go both way.
Some said, "maybe" the wrond QB was traded, and ya have to read a bit of frustration there, similar to the Carr's situation. And then, there are others in Atlanta who said that the Falcons did well in that trade.

Even the first camp refrained from saying that they see Schaub as the savior.

Why does Schaub have to be "the savior" ? How come we can't just be satisfied with good, solid, consistently strong QB play ?

Are we wrong in thinking Schaub can provide those things ?

76Texan
05-01-2007, 04:50 PM
Schaub was a hot commodity ... it does'nt guarantee he'll be good but we'll know by the start of the season .

Garcia would be a temporary fix and then you'd bank on a rookie being the real deal .

did you see the raiders part with their #1 pick?

Honoring Earl 34
05-01-2007, 04:53 PM
Link please!

I don't know where the link but I've been hearing about Schaub for a year and a half .

Porky
05-01-2007, 04:54 PM
He is a backup in talent, I know his current position is starter. A good backup, but not a starter. I'd rather have had Grossman.


Thanks for the laughs. :dance2: :gathering: lol:

Honoring Earl 34
05-01-2007, 04:55 PM
did you see the raiders part with their #1 pick?

Did you see the Texans part with theirs .

76Texan
05-01-2007, 04:56 PM
Why does Schaub have to be "the savior" ? How come we can't just be satisfied with good, solid, consistently strong QB play ?

Are we wrong in thinking Schaub can provide those things ?

No, but IMO, Garcia is a surer thing to get us to the play-offs this year while the franchise QB has the time to learn the rope.

If, let's say Kolb, is ready then we can turn him loose next year.
If we want to, he can sit another year.

The insurance that we have is rosenfels.
Now if garcia gets injured midway, we don't lose much money.
I dont have to spell out the other scenario.

Errant Hothy
05-01-2007, 05:07 PM
Link please!

Last offseason, it was the Minnesota Vikings who tried their luck. Minnesota began talks with Atlanta nearly a month before the draft, hoping to bring in a starting-caliber player to compete with the 38-year-old Brad Johnson. Not for the first time -- and perhaps not the last time -- Atlanta fended off the possible suitor and retained its valuable backup.

http://www.realfootball365.com/nfl/articles/2007/03/raiders-schaub-hassle210307.html

Double Barrel
05-01-2007, 05:09 PM
We can agree to disagree then.
I would rather have Kolb as the future.
(But as long as Schaub is here, I will support him, I won't be so demanding as some Vince Young fans.)

Of course, all this is just talk 'cause we cannot reverse the course of time.

On a side note, I would rather that you quote a sourse saying Garcia wants nothing to do with Houston. And also, for all we know, there may be stunts by sport agents to up the ante for their client.

Would you really want a 37 year old Garcia over Shaub? :confused:

I'll look for stories about Garcia and the Texans. From what I recall, it was just media blather about talks with Garcia, but never got past that stage. He never came here to work out, and negotiations never got that deep because he chose Tampa Bay. Garcia did say in the past that he was only interested in signing with a team that could contend, so by extension, that ruled the Texans out.

As far as Kolb, the Eagles are one of my NFC teams to follow (in addition to being a division rival of Dallas, who I strongly dislike), and I hope he does well with Philly. But Kolb has NO experience in a WC offense, and Shaub has 6 years experience already. I think you will clearly see the difference in QBs next season. Shaub has only been a backup because the Falcons owner would never let his golden child Vick be challenged.

76Texan
05-01-2007, 05:29 PM
http://www.realfootball365.com/nfl/articles/2007/03/raiders-schaub-hassle210307.html

I read it, and it doesnt show anybody interested enough to give up a first rounder.

Except for the Texans who gave the equivalent of one.

The1ApplePie
05-01-2007, 05:33 PM
I think we wanted Plummer so bad, because Kubes wanted to draft Quinn and mold him, giving him a guy to buy time.

When Plummer retired, and Quinn looked like he wouldn't fall to 8, we got Schaub.

Schaub was option 3.

If we got Plummer, we would have taken Quinn.

Honoring Earl 34
05-01-2007, 05:34 PM
I read it, and it doesnt show anybody interested enough to give up a first rounder.

Except for the Texans who gave the equivalent of one.

So if Schaub pans out ... is he worth two 2nd round picks ?

Specnatz
05-01-2007, 05:34 PM
Why does Schaub have to be "the savior" ? How come we can't just be satisfied with good, solid, consistently strong QB play ?

Are we wrong in thinking Schaub can provide those things ?

Very good point, I will take it. I just want the team improved over last year, period!

:texflag:

Errant Hothy
05-01-2007, 05:36 PM
I think we wanted Plummer so bad, because Kubes wanted to draft Quinn and mold him, giving him a guy to buy time.

When Plummer retired, and Quinn looked like he wouldn't fall to 8, we got Schaub.

Schaub was option 3.

If we got Plummer, we would have taken Quinn.

You got a link for this or is this your view point?

I'm still looking for any articles that either prove or disprove teh Schaub 06 RFA offers and their rejections.

The1ApplePie
05-01-2007, 05:40 PM
You got a link for this or is this your view point?

I'm still looking for any articles that either prove or disprove teh Schaub 06 RFA offers and their rejections.

It was the common conclusion people came up with when we spent a month trying to get Plummer. Plummer had maybe 2 more years in him, and we had a high draft pick.

Plus, it would be a very "Denver" thing to do.

Errant Hothy
05-01-2007, 05:44 PM
It was the common conclusion people came up with when we spent a month trying to get Plummer. Plummer had maybe 2 more years in him, and we had a high draft pick.

Plus, it would be a very "Denver" thing to do.

Getting Plummer, I'll give you; but there was nothing near a censensus about drafting Quinn at 8.

76Texan
05-01-2007, 05:45 PM
Would you really want a 37 year old Garcia over Shaub? :confused:

I'll look for stories about Garcia and the Texans. From what I recall, it was just media blather about talks with Garcia, but never got past that stage. He never came here to work out, and negotiations never got that deep because he chose Tampa Bay. Garcia did say in the past that he was only interested in signing with a team that could contend, so by extension, that ruled the Texans out.

As far as Kolb, the Eagles are one of my NFC teams to follow (in addition to being a division rival of Dallas, who I strongly dislike), and I hope he does well with Philly. But Kolb has NO experience in a WC offense, and Shaub has 6 years experience already. I think you will clearly see the difference in QBs next season. Shaub has only been a backup because the Falcons owner would never let his golden child Vick be challenged.
I want garcia to mold Kolb. Plummer would be OK.
But just my opinion, I prefer Garcia, even though Plummer has more experience in the West Texas Offense.

Like i said, I'm a homeboy, I've been followed Cougars football since they first entered the old SWC some 30 years ago. The WTO is simple for him (Kolb, that is).
And of course, that is just my opinion.

76Texan
05-01-2007, 05:47 PM
So if Schaub pans out ... is he worth two 2nd round picks ?

Any guy who pans out is worth that.
But we don't know for sure, do we?

Errant Hothy
05-01-2007, 05:48 PM
Any guy who pans out is worth that.
But we don't know for sure, do we?

And yet we're advocating Kolb pretty heavy who is just as big, if not bigger risk, then Schaub.

Honoring Earl 34
05-01-2007, 05:50 PM
Any guy who pans out is worth that.
But we don't know for sure, do we?

Schaub is a much safer bet than Kolb in the 2nd .

Grams
05-01-2007, 05:51 PM
I think we wanted Plummer so bad, because Kubes wanted to draft Quinn and mold him, giving him a guy to buy time.

When Plummer retired, and Quinn looked like he wouldn't fall to 8, we got Schaub.

Schaub was option 3.

If we got Plummer, we would have taken Quinn.

Who says? Got a link?

It was also stated that we had an agreement to trade picks with Denver. Didn't see that happen either.

Is this all just part of the media hype before the draft or do you know specifically?

Honoring Earl 34
05-01-2007, 05:53 PM
Schaub is a much safer bet than Kolb in the 2nd .

Actually ... we would have had to draft Kolb in the first or high 2nd because Philly took him with the Browns 2nd round pick .

Double Barrel
05-01-2007, 06:09 PM
Hey, Troy Smith won a Heisman and he fell to the 5th. Guess I should start advocating that we woulda'/coulda'/shoulda' got The Next Big Thing with our 3rd or 4th pick? idonno:

76Texan
05-01-2007, 06:09 PM
Actually ... we would have had to draft Kolb in the first or high 2nd because Philly took him with the Browns 2nd round pick .very true.

admittingly, we could have lost in this scenario.

We still have garcia and it's back to the drawing board.
I don't like Quinn as much, JMO.
I would like to see us try out Jared.
And next year there will be guys like Brohm, perhaps Tebow, and my darkhorse Mike Teel among others.

76Texan
05-01-2007, 06:15 PM
Schaub is a much safer bet than Kolb in the 2nd .

The safest thing is the money involved.

But as a fan, say the year before, I wanted the Texans to trade Carr instead of resigning him, and consider either VY or Leinart (I prefer Leinart, and again, it was JMO)... there's nothing wrong with me expressing my opinion, this year, that I would rather see Kolb than anybody else.

76Texan
05-01-2007, 06:16 PM
Hey, Troy Smith won a Heisman and he fell to the 5th. Guess I should start advocating that we woulda'/coulda'/shoulda' got The Next Big Thing with our 3rd or 4th pick? idonno:
I think it's irrelevant to the discussion, sorry!

Honoring Earl 34
05-01-2007, 06:36 PM
The safest thing is the money involved.

But as a fan, say the year before, I wanted the Texans to trade Carr instead of resigning him, and consider either VY or Leinart (I prefer Leinart, and again, it was JMO)... there's nothing wrong with me expressing my opinion, this year, that I would rather see Kolb than anybody else.

I think Kolb would have been interesting .

I think Smith and Kubiak felt pressure from last years draft so Schaub was a quicker results type thing .

Double Barrel
05-01-2007, 10:46 PM
I think it's irrelevant to the discussion, sorry!

And Kolb is relevant to the Houston Texans draft discussion how? :um:

You bring up wishful thinking about Kolb, and I'll bring it up about Troy Smith. What's the difference? Neither has played a down in the NFL. :howdy:

Kaiser Toro
05-02-2007, 12:18 AM
http://www.falcfans.com/blog/archive/2006_02_01_archive.html

The Falcons will not trade Matt Schaub. Just like the potential Drew Brees to Atlanta deal of 2004, any proposed deal between Atlanta and another team will fall apart due to a discrepancy on desired compensation.

However, if the Falcons do trade Schaub, it will be to the Detroit Lions. Martz wanted him badly in '04, but McKay "stole" him from him, and he would be the ideal young QB to bring to Detroit to compete with Harrington and run that offense.

http://www.realfootball365.com/nfl/articles/2007/03/raiders-schaub-hassle210307.html

A Falcons personnel director close to Schaub recently confirmed the quarterback's high trade value.

"The Falcons know that Schaub's value is probably close to the 15th pick in the first round," he said. "But, putting a deal together that works for all parties is the tricky part."

In late February, Atlanta essentially guaranteed that Schaub would only be allowed to leave town via trade. By extending Schaub a one-year qualifying offer in excess of $2 million, the Falcons cut out the possibility of losing him through free agency. If another team was to offer the 6-foot-5 signal caller over $2 million and Atlanta failed to match the offer after seven days, the Falcons would be compensated with the winning bidder's first- and third-round draft pick. Simply put, that won't happen.

76Texan
05-02-2007, 01:40 AM
And Kolb is relevant to the Houston Texans draft discussion how? :um:

You bring up wishful thinking about Kolb, and I'll bring it up about Troy Smith. What's the difference? Neither has played a down in the NFL. :howdy:

I can say "ya get me there" to make ya happy,
or I can say, the Texans camp did talk to Kolb and did bring him in.

The more relevant point remains Kolb was regarded high enough to be picked where he was, that is he's a prospect to be a future franchise QB.
Which is, at least what I thought we were talking about, a "hopeful" franchise QB.

76Texan
05-02-2007, 02:07 AM
I think Kolb would have been interesting .

I think Smith and Kubiak felt pressure from last years draft so Schaub was a quicker results type thing .
It would be better if I know the scouting department is doing their job.
I wonder if they chart with their touted computing sytem that Kolb was playing thru 3 different LTs this season.

I heard something shaking toward the east side?

76Texan
05-02-2007, 02:09 AM
http://www.falcfans.com/blog/archive/2006_02_01_archive.html



http://www.realfootball365.com/nfl/articles/2007/03/raiders-schaub-hassle210307.htmlAnd your point, please?

Kaiser Toro
05-02-2007, 08:52 AM
And your point, please?

Schaub was a value for a team that was looking to upgrade at the QB position based on supply and demand at that position while taking into consideration its own needs and the crop of draft candidates that were ready to lead a Kubiak/Sherman offense this coming September.

76Texan
05-02-2007, 02:07 PM
Schaub was a value for a team that was looking to upgrade at the QB position based on supply and demand at that position while taking into consideration its own needs and the crop of draft candidates that were ready to lead a Kubiak/Sherman offense this coming September.

I agree with that. As a matter of fact, I had mentioned that to Texan_Bill.
If Kubiak believes that Schaub can be the system QB, that is the market value we have to pay.

But as much as Kubiak repeatedly says that he wants a playmaker, the question will lingers on my mind for a long time as to why he'd bypass Kolb.
Also, from what I've seen in the last 4 years, I'm comfortable that Kolb can direct multiple offenses, and that includes what is now called WCO.

I'd rather have that potential for greatness than just settling for a middle of the road system QB, JMO.

Double Barrel
05-02-2007, 02:15 PM
But as much as Kubiak repeatedly says that he wants a playmaker, the question will lingers on my mind for a long time as to why he'd bypass Kolb.
Also, from what I've seen in the last 4 years, I'm comfortable that Kolb can direct multiple offenses, and that includes what is now called WCO.


Is Kolb worth a first round draft pick in your opinion? Even if we still had our 2nd round pick, he would not have been available. We'd either have to trade up or use our 1st for him, and I have never seen that scenario even mentioned by the most hardcore Kolb/UH fans.

With regards to Kolb directing multiple offenses, he's had the same offense in HS and college. A pro style offense it is not, and the WCO is a completely different beast requiring skills that he would have to develop over time. I like the kid and wish him well in Philly, but I'm not delusional about it. It is going to take him awhile to get up to the point that Shaub is at right now. Kubiak & Co. simply don't have time to develop a rookie QB from scratch.

hadaad
05-02-2007, 02:18 PM
I agree with that. As a matter of fact, I had mentioned that to Texan_Bill.
If Kubiak believes that Schaub can be the system QB, that is the market value we have to pay.

But as much as Kubiak repeatedly says that he wants a playmaker, the question will lingers on my mind for a long time as to why he'd bypass Kolb.
Also, from what I've seen in the last 4 years, I'm comfortable that Kolb can direct multiple offenses, and that includes what is now called WCO.

I'd rather have that potential for greatness than just settling for a middle of the road system QB, JMO.

Kubiak didn't bypass Kolb, unless you wanted him at #10. The Eagles traded ahead of where Houston would have drafted in round 2, so Kolb wouldn't have been there in the second for us.

Personally, I don't see Schaub as a middle-of-the-road system QB. And I don't think Kubiak does either. We wouldn't have given away that much for a middle-of-the-road guy.

So, no Kolb, no Schaub, we go with Carr? Beck? Stanton? Or would you want us to trade down in the second to get Kolb?

This isn't intended to be snide. I'm just curious how Kubiak passed on Kolb.

real
05-02-2007, 02:33 PM
I agree with that. As a matter of fact, I had mentioned that to Texan_Bill.
If Kubiak believes that Schaub can be the system QB, that is the market value we have to pay.

But as much as Kubiak repeatedly says that he wants a playmaker, the question will lingers on my mind for a long time as to why he'd bypass Kolb.
Also, from what I've seen in the last 4 years, I'm comfortable that Kolb can direct multiple offenses, and that includes what is now called WCO.

I'd rather have that potential for greatness than just settling for a middle of the road system QB, JMO.

As others have mentioned, we didn't pass on Kolb...The Eagles reached on him...remember.....

But besides that, I think you're totally off base in assuming Kolb has a better shot at becoming great than Schaub...I'm high on Kolb...I think he has the demeanor of Tom Brady...But as far as the Texans are concerned Schaub obviously has a better chance at being great in our system...If you can't see that you're either in denial or you're just naive....The only real thing you have is a gut feeling, because beyond that you'd have to be deaf, blind and dumb to not see which QB gives the Texans a better shot at becoming a contender...

76Texan
05-02-2007, 03:11 PM
Is Kolb worth a first round draft pick in your opinion? Even if we still had our 2nd round pick, he would not have been available. We'd either have to trade up or use our 1st for him, and I have never seen that scenario even mentioned by the most hardcore Kolb/UH fans.

With regards to Kolb directing multiple offenses, he's had the same offense in HS and college. A pro style offense it is not, and the WCO is a completely different beast requiring skills that he would have to develop over time. I like the kid and wish him well in Philly, but I'm not delusional about it. It is going to take him awhile to get up to the point that Shaub is at right now. Kubiak & Co. simply don't have time to develop a rookie QB from scratch.Where we pick is up to the FO to decide, wherever they rate the players. I am not a GM and have no resources regarding to what teams would be looking for a certain type of QB, at what spot, etc.

What I know is the Chronicle reported the week before the draft that SN rated Kolb at 27, and many draft boards have him early in the 2nd round, and many think he will be the 3rd QB drafted.

Originally, I had Kold around #47. (To take away the homer factor).
Even though I had already stated way before the draft that I would not mind at all to use our original 2nd rounder for him.
But I did fear that as the teams have a chance to talk to Kolb, he can really explain how his offense is ran, and that people would see more of the value in him. My fear became reality.

And as I have stated that I believe Kolb can run the WCO, but don't believe me. Just listen to what Reid has to say:

Houston Chronicle
April 28, 2007
More on Kolb
More good news for KK -- he can keep his No. 4... unless Mel Kiper has a problem with that, too. Apparently the ESPN guys are having a hard time with the Kolb selection, devoting a segment to "Kolb to Eagles make sense?"

Eagles coach Andy Reid explained the pick to the ESPN inquisition:

"Kevin is a heck of a player," he said. "This is really the first year that we could sit there and say that we have a pretty good football team coming back to us, so we can pick the best player on the board, and that was Kevin. We've got one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL, and now we got to add another one who's a fine football player."

And...(in response to a question about KK being a "system" guy):

"We had an opportunity to bring him up and visit with him, and we had an opportunity to go down and visit with him and work him out," Reid said. "We just thought he would fit into the West Coast system very well. He's a coach's kid, he's been coached hard, has a great mind, a good head on his shoulders and he's a good person. We just thought he'd fit in here very well."

76Texan
05-02-2007, 03:13 PM
As others have mentioned, we didn't pass on Kolb...The Eagles reached on him...remember.....

But besides that, I think you're totally off base in assuming Kolb has a better shot at becoming great than Schaub...I'm high on Kolb...I think he has the demeanor of Tom Brady...But as far as the Texans are concerned Schaub obviously has a better chance at being great in our system...If you can't see that you're either in denial or you're just naive....The only real thing you have is a gut feeling, because beyond that you'd have to be deaf, blind and dumb to not see which QB gives the Texans a better shot at becoming a contender...

I would like the Mod to take certain kind of action regarding this poster, please.

76Texan
05-02-2007, 03:15 PM
Kubiak didn't bypass Kolb, unless you wanted him at #10. The Eagles traded ahead of where Houston would have drafted in round 2, so Kolb wouldn't have been there in the second for us.

Personally, I don't see Schaub as a middle-of-the-road system QB. And I don't think Kubiak does either. We wouldn't have given away that much for a middle-of-the-road guy.

So, no Kolb, no Schaub, we go with Carr? Beck? Stanton? Or would you want us to trade down in the second to get Kolb?

This isn't intended to be snide. I'm just curious how Kubiak passed on Kolb.You have to remember what I wanted to say is that once the Texans got Schaub, there's no Kolb in the plan anymore.

Just like when they decided to stick with Carr before, there's no VY nor Leinart in the future of the team.

real
05-02-2007, 03:19 PM
I would like the Mod to take certain kind of action regarding this poster, please.

There is a caution symbol in the bottom left corner of the post...All you have to do is click on it to report the post...either that or just pm a MOD...

76Texan
05-02-2007, 03:22 PM
There is a caution symbol in the bottom left corner of the post...All you have to do is click on it to report the post...either that or just pm a MOD...

Did that, thanks for the self reporting!

Texan_Bill
05-02-2007, 03:24 PM
I would like the Mod to take certain kind of action regarding this poster, please.

Don't get upset 76, because what he says is completely reversible.

Specnatz
05-02-2007, 03:34 PM
Maybe Xlt was a bit over the top by saying deaf dumb and blind, but facts are facts. What exactly do you want the mods to do, give him reps? :winky:

We have Schaub and Schaub in limited in the NFL has shown promise if not great promise. Kolb whom I raved about before the draft, well actually before the Schaub trade, has not had any experience in the NFL what so ever. how many QBs can you name that were highly touted coming into the NFL right out of college can you say had the star quality but yet were bust.

Tom Brady and Joe Montana were not considered star QBs nor QBs that had the "it" factor yet they are doing more than anyone could ever think.

Fine you r have a man crush on Kolb, there is nothing wrong with it. Some are not and since we did not have a second round pick, we did not pass on anyone who was drafted in the second round.

Errant Hothy
05-02-2007, 03:36 PM
I would like the Mod to take certain kind of action regarding this poster, please.

I see nothing that is anything near reportable. My gosh, he even goes as far today that he thinks Kolb has the same demenor as Kolb, and he, like you, is high on Kolb.

Just because his views differ from yours is not a reason to report anybody, then agian the odds of the Mods taking any action for what has been posted in the last several posts is slim to none.

Why can't we all be friends?

Double Barrel
05-02-2007, 03:41 PM
Where we pick is up to the FO to decide, wherever they rate the players. I am not a GM and have no resources regarding to what teams would be looking for a certain type of QB, at what spot, etc.

What I know is the Chronicle reported the week before the draft that SN rated Kolb at 27, and many draft boards have him early in the 2nd round, and many think he will be the 3rd QB drafted.

Originally, I had Kold around #47. (To take away the homer factor).
Even though I had already stated way before the draft that I would not mind at all to use our original 2nd rounder for him.
But I did fear that as the teams have a chance to talk to Kolb, he can really explain how his offense is ran, and that people would see more of the value in him. My fear became reality.

And as I have stated that I believe Kolb can run the WCO, but don't believe me. Just listen to what Reid has to say:

Houston Chronicle
April 28, 2007
More on Kolb
More good news for KK -- he can keep his No. 4... unless Mel Kiper has a problem with that, too. Apparently the ESPN guys are having a hard time with the Kolb selection, devoting a segment to "Kolb to Eagles make sense?"

Eagles coach Andy Reid explained the pick to the ESPN inquisition:

"Kevin is a heck of a player," he said. "This is really the first year that we could sit there and say that we have a pretty good football team coming back to us, so we can pick the best player on the board, and that was Kevin. We've got one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL, and now we got to add another one who's a fine football player."

And...(in response to a question about KK being a "system" guy):

"We had an opportunity to bring him up and visit with him, and we had an opportunity to go down and visit with him and work him out," Reid said. "We just thought he would fit into the West Coast system very well. He's a coach's kid, he's been coached hard, has a great mind, a good head on his shoulders and he's a good person. We just thought he'd fit in here very well."

Good post, man, but in all honesty...what else can Andy Reid say about reaching for a project QB in the 2nd round? He sure won't criticize his new player for so many obvious reasons, first being that it would directly reflect on his own decision making process.

But we can agree to disagree. I have no problem with that. :howdy:

Specnatz
05-02-2007, 03:45 PM
Why can't we all be friends?

Friends are overrated they will just ask to borrow money or your wife. :doot:

Honoring Earl 34
05-02-2007, 03:51 PM
I think the one thing that you cannot tell about a college QB is ... can he handle the speed of the game and how he'll handle adversity .

Most of these guys were really good or they would'nt have been drafted but I think it's safer to pick a USC guy over a UH QB .

The USC QB plays in front of 100,000 fans on CBS and in the Rose Bowl . You get some kind of idea how he handles pressure .

What's safer than the USC QB ... a guy that's played in the league for three years and had some success . He may not have the upside as said USC QB but he does'nt have the downside , bust factor either . :texflag:

Honoring Earl 34
05-02-2007, 03:53 PM
Friends are overrated they will just ask to borrow money or your wife. :doot:

Hey ... not my money . :whip:

76Texan
05-02-2007, 03:56 PM
I see nothing that is anything near reportable. My gosh, he even goes as far today that he thinks Kolb has the same demenor as Kolb, and he, like you, is high on Kolb.

Just because his views differ from yours is not a reason to report anybody, then agian the odds of the Mods taking any action for what has been posted in the last several posts is slim to none.

Why can't we all be friends?

you are deaf, blind, and dumb for not recognizing what is reportable and what is not.

76Texan
05-02-2007, 03:59 PM
Don't get upset 76, because what he says is completely reversible.

I don't get upset.
But here is a kind of poster who should not be allowed on MB.
And I just call it.

real
05-02-2007, 04:00 PM
you are deaf, blind, and dumb for not recognizing what is reportable and what is not.

LMAO....:lol:

76Texan
05-02-2007, 04:01 PM
Maybe Xlt was a bit over the top by saying deaf dumb and blind, but facts are facts. What exactly do you want the mods to do, give him reps? :winky:

We have Schaub and Schaub in limited in the NFL has shown promise if not great promise. Kolb whom I raved about before the draft, well actually before the Schaub trade, has not had any experience in the NFL what so ever. how many QBs can you name that were highly touted coming into the NFL right out of college can you say had the star quality but yet were bust.

Tom Brady and Joe Montana were not considered star QBs nor QBs that had the "it" factor yet they are doing more than anyone could ever think.

Fine you r have a man crush on Kolb, there is nothing wrong with it. Some are not and since we did not have a second round pick, we did not pass on anyone who was drafted in the second round.
you need to re-read all my posts.
I'm not saying things much differently than what you just stated (the main points.)

Errant Hothy
05-02-2007, 04:07 PM
76Texan,

I've been called worse by people, and none of them were banned. I've called people worse and am still here. This is a forum where viewpoints are to be exchanged, and every once in a while somebody is going to say something to you that ruffles your feathers. It's your right to report it, but don't be shocked if the Mods view it differently then you do. Thats all.

Honoring Earl 34
05-02-2007, 04:09 PM
you need to re-read all my posts.
I'm not saying things much differently than what you just stated (the main points.)

76Texan ... I remember you having this argument with Vinny when these boards opened .

You got ruffled in that discussion also ... you said Vinny was to forward .

The key is if you push ( you have dogged Schaub from the start ) you better be ready to get pushed back . If you don't want to be pushed then use some finesse . :pirate:

76Texan
05-02-2007, 04:11 PM
76Texan ... I remember you having this argument with Vinny when these boards opened .

You got ruffled in that discussion also ... you said Vinny was to forward .

The key is if you push ( you have dogged Schaub from the start ) you better be ready to get pushed back . If you don't want to be pushed then use some finesse . :pirate:

I'm all for talking points.
I have no problem with that.

76Texan
05-02-2007, 04:14 PM
76Texan,

I've been called worse by people, and none of them were banned. I've called people worse and am still here. This is a forum where viewpoints are to be exchanged, and every once in a while somebody is going to say something to you that ruffles your feathers. It's your right to report it, but don't be shocked if the Mods view it differently then you do. Thats all.
It's good that you have a high tolerance.

I do, too.
But I would rather not let it go, because that type of behavior only increases with time if not met with resistance.

And yes, I have gotten a response from the mod.
My guess is a warning, and that's a start.

Honoring Earl 34
05-02-2007, 04:16 PM
I'm all for talking points.
I have no problem with that.

Some of these guys are in their early 20's . They talk on the boards like a bunch of 20 year olds talking to their buddies . If I was 20 ... I'd probably talk that way to .

I always start off with ... in my opinion ... because that's what it is ... it seems to keep things in conversation form and not an argument .

hadaad
05-02-2007, 04:17 PM
Of course when the Texans decided on Schaub they decided not to draft Kolb. I agree, it's just like last year when they decided on Carr over Leinart Young and Cutler.

Front offices make decisions like this all the time. They have entire scouting staffs looking at the way people play in different situations. They pay lots and lots of money to know the calibre of the people they select.

Just because it isn't someone you agree with doesn't make it a bad idea. Just because it isn't a guy from the hometown college doesn't make it a bad idea.

I think that Philadelphia made a mistake in trading up for Kolb, more because of the depth at WR and the needs that they have beyond a backup quarterback who is being groomed to take over in a couple of years. That said, I didn't scout him even a little. I don't know anything about Kevin Kolb other than he lit it up at UH. So I'm not going to shred the Eagles FO for that move. Maybe he'll pan out, maybe he won't. That's for Reid to take up with his scouts.

76Texan
05-02-2007, 04:22 PM
Some of these guys are in their early 20's . They talk on the boards like a bunch of 20 year olds talking to their buddies . If I was 20 ... I'd probably talk that way to .

I always start off with ... in my opinion ... because that's what it is ... it seems to keep things in conversation form and not an argument .I think I have inserted enough IMO, JMO in my posts!

real
05-02-2007, 04:24 PM
Maybe he'll pan out, maybe he won't. That's for Reid to take up with his scouts.

That's the thing...

No one can be 100% sure about any player...That's why you use common sense when it comes to things like this...

It would have been a really dumb move for the Texans to rest the future hopes of this franchise on Kevin Kolb...Philly is the team that traded up to get him, and I'll go out on a limb and say, I don't think that even they plan for him to become the guy within the next three years....

Schaub is and was clearly the better option for our franchise. I can't believe this is even a real topic. Kevin Kolb vs. Matt Schaub....Who are you gonna take in hopes of him becoming franchise...It's really not even close when you consider all factors...

Specnatz
05-02-2007, 04:24 PM
I used to be a Pin Ball wizard at the arcade does that make me deaf, dumb and blind?

:splits:

real
05-02-2007, 04:26 PM
I used to be a Pin Ball wizard at the arcade does that make me deaf, dumb and blind?

:splits:

No...

It makes you a loser....

:) J/K....

Honoring Earl 34
05-02-2007, 04:26 PM
I used to be a Pin Ball wizard at the arcade does that make me deaf, dumb and blind?

:splits:

Tommy is that you ?

hadaad
05-02-2007, 04:27 PM
That's the thing...

No one can be 100% sure about any player...That's why you use common sense when it comes to things like this...

It would have been a really dumb move for the Texans to rest the future hopes of this franchise on Kevin Kolb...Philly are the people that traded up to get him, and I'll go out on a limb and say, I don't think they plan for him to become the guy within the next three years....

Schaub is and was clearly the better option for our franchise. I can't believe this is even a real topic. Kevin Kolb vs. Matt Schaub....Who are you gonna take in hopes of him becoming franchise...It's really not even close when you consider all factors...


I don't know if it would have been stupid for them to draft Kolb (and have an older guy there to mentor him). I dont' know enough about the guy. But to say that Houston should have drafted him when there was no guarantee of where he was going to be drafted doesn't work for me. Obviously it didn't work for Kubiak and Smith either, since they went and got Schaub.

I will leave it in their hands.

Mr. White
05-02-2007, 04:28 PM
Tommy is that you ?

Tommy, can you hear me?

Texan_Bill
05-02-2007, 04:28 PM
I don't get upset.
But here is a kind of poster who should not be allowed on MB.
And I just call it.

Unfortunately some of those posters came over to TT from the old main board in the merger and were the main reasons I posted more on TT than the old main board...

Honoring Earl 34
05-02-2007, 04:29 PM
No...

It makes you a loser....

:) J/K....

You're already on double secret probation .... one more time and you'll have the avatar of 76Texan's choice . It'll probaly a Jane Russell poster .

real
05-02-2007, 04:30 PM
I don't know if it would have been stupid for them to draft Kolb (and have an older guy there to mentor him). I dont' know enough about the guy. But to say that Houston should have drafted him when there was no guarantee of where he was going to be drafted doesn't work for me. Obviously it didn't work for Kubiak and Smith either, since they went and got Schaub.

I will leave it in their hands.

I don't think it would have been stupid at all...I'm really high on Kolb, and IMO, if he's brought into the right situation he can be a beast...The most impressive thing about him is his demeanor IMO...

I'm just saying it wouldn't have been too smart to pass on Schaub in hopes of grabbing Kolb and him becoming the guy....But if they couldn't have gotten Schaub he's one of the QB's that I wanted....

76Texan
05-02-2007, 04:31 PM
Of course when the Texans decided on Schaub they decided not to draft Kolb. I agree, it's just like last year when they decided on Carr over Leinart Young and Cutler.

Front offices make decisions like this all the time. They have entire scouting staffs looking at the way people play in different situations. They pay lots and lots of money to know the calibre of the people they select.

Just because it isn't someone you agree with doesn't make it a bad idea. Just because it isn't a guy from the hometown college doesn't make it a bad idea.

I think that Philadelphia made a mistake in trading up for Kolb, more because of the depth at WR and the needs that they have beyond a backup quarterback who is being groomed to take over in a couple of years. That said, I didn't scout him even a little. I don't know anything about Kevin Kolb other than he lit it up at UH. So I'm not going to shred the Eagles FO for that move. Maybe he'll pan out, maybe he won't. That's for Reid to take up with his scouts.
I'm with ya. I know many Eagles fans think they shoulda addressed other needs first.

I just want to raise a concern, a fear that we might make the same mistake.
As I have stated, maybe Kubiak only need a system QB to win games.
And he feels like Schaub would be enough.
Once that decision was made, it's over with, I will support our QBs.
We are just disecting different scenarios for the sake of it, and nothing more.
Remember, I also said I won't be like some Vince Young fans who still gripe.
I understand the griping (I will do it too), but soon as our team hits the field, whoever that QB is on the other side, he's the ennemy.

Texan_Bill
05-02-2007, 04:32 PM
That's the thing...

No one can be 100% sure about any player......

WOW!! I got lambasted on the old main board (don't recall by who it all was - but several) for expressing such an opinion...

Fair enough, I guess it depends on who says it....
:rolleyes:

hadaad
05-02-2007, 04:33 PM
I don't think it would have been stupid at all...I'm really high on Kolb, and IMO, if he's brought into the right situation he can be a beast...The most impressive thing about him is his demeanor IMO...

I'm just saying it wouldn't have been too smart to pass on Schaub in hopes of grabbing Kolb and him becoming the guy....But if they couldn't have gotten Schaub he's one of the QB's that I wanted....

I can still see where people aren't happy with the Schaub pickup. It's a risk. No matter what you think the guy can do it IS a risk. And less costly of a risk than even trading up in the second to pick up Kolb.

My money, however, is on Schaub paying off and taking us to the brink of (if not into ) the playoffs this year and challenging for the division next year.

We'll see.

Errant Hothy
05-02-2007, 04:34 PM
I know his demeanor is the impressive thing about him, but I'd be cautious of the numbers and succes that any QB whose spent the last 8 years runnign the same system would have. And there in lies my biggest issue with Kolb, I can't get past that he's nothing more then a system QB. Admitedly I've seen all of a game that he's palyed in, but being Red Raider I know system Qbs when I see them.

My other issue with Kolb has nothing to do with him, and more with my haterd of John McClain.

76Texan
05-02-2007, 04:35 PM
Unfortunately some of those posters came over to TT from the old main board in the merger and were the main reasons I posted more on TT than the old main board...

Being young doesnt mean you can't be smart, but obviously in this case it's a disease that is hard to cure.

Im gonna leave this up to the mods, and close this for the time being.

hadaad
05-02-2007, 04:35 PM
haterd of John McCain.

The senator?

Honoring Earl 34
05-02-2007, 04:36 PM
WOW!! I got lambasted on the old main board (don't recall by who it all was - but several) for expressing such an opinion...

Fair enough, I guess it depends on who says it....
:rolleyes:

I think we figured out that if you hit 40% on your draft picks ... your pretty good .

If you go to NFL.comand look at the draft history ... you see guys in the first round who never came close to being good . http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/drafts

Specnatz
05-02-2007, 04:37 PM
:lightning:
No...

It makes you a loser....

:) J/K....



:yikes:


You're already on double secret probation .... one more time and you'll have the avatar of 76Texan's choice . It'll probaly a Jane Russell poster .

Now if there was a better laughing smiley I would use it. that was funny.

Lucky
05-02-2007, 04:37 PM
I think that Philadelphia made a mistake in trading up for Kolb...
First, Philly traded down to get Kolb. Whether that was a mistake, time will tell. But, a lot of good teams liked Kevin. New England, Baltimore, New Orleans, Jacksonville. The Texans also liked him.

But, I think the Texans have been vindicated in a way, in trading for Schaub. Especially, when they traded for him. As noted, Kolb was off the board by the time the 2nd round pick that had been the Texans rolled around. Had the Texans not traded for Schaub and shown their interest in Kevin, the Eagles could have sat at #26 and made the pick. Without selecting Kolb with a pick above Philly's, there was little chance of the Texans drafting Kevin.

And what if the Texans had waited around till draft day to make a move on Schaub? Well, they would have been out of luck, as Matt would very likely be off the table, considering the issues with Falcons have with Michael Vick. Atlanta got good value in the deal, but they have to be asking themselves if it was the right move to make. The Texans made a bold move in dealing for Schaub, and I think it will pay off.

real
05-02-2007, 04:37 PM
You're already on double secret probation .... one more time and you'll have the avatar of 76Texan's choice . It'll probaly a Jane Russell poster .
:gun:

Errant Hothy
05-02-2007, 04:38 PM
The senator?

Man missing that "l" changed that post rather drasticlly.

Texan_Bill
05-02-2007, 04:38 PM
Being young doesnt mean you can't be smart, but obviously in this case it's a disease that is hard to cure.

Im gonna leave this up to the mods, and close this for the time being.

I hear what you're saying....

"Type for the cure"

Texan_Bill
05-02-2007, 04:40 PM
I think we figured out that if you hit 40% on your draft picks ... your pretty good .

If you go to NFL.comand look at the draft history ... you see guys in the first round who never came close to being good . http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/drafts

Sweet... Than I am a genius!!

real
05-02-2007, 04:41 PM
Sweet... Than I am a genius!!

uhhhh.....

hadaad
05-02-2007, 04:42 PM
Lucky: You're right. Obviously. Thanks for the correction.

I like the Schaub pickup. I thought the price was high but worth it, not just because of Schaub's potential but also because of what it means to this franchise to tell David Carr that his performance was not good enough to remain a starter.

We grew up as a franchise that day and while I wanted Carr to get another shot that would have been an expansion thing to do.

Texan_Bill
05-02-2007, 04:43 PM
uhhhh.....

Nice economy of words... LMAO

real
05-02-2007, 04:45 PM
Nice economy of words... LMAO

It's all good....

I've got nothing but love for ya Billy...:heart:

Texan_Bill
05-02-2007, 04:46 PM
"two people call me Billy.... My family and my friends.........."

Honoring Earl 34
05-02-2007, 04:47 PM
It's all good....

I've got nothing but love for ya Billy...:heart:

This is turning into Broke Back Board ... y'all fight I'm getting nervous .

HOU-TEX
05-02-2007, 04:55 PM
This is turning into Broke Back Board ... y'all fight I'm getting nervous .

No slapping either.:bat:

76Texan
05-02-2007, 04:58 PM
First, Philly traded down to get Kolb. Whether that was a mistake, time will tell. But, a lot of good teams liked Kevin. New England, Baltimore, New Orleans, Jacksonville. The Texans also liked him.

But, I think the Texans have been vindicated in a way, in trading for Schaub. Especially, when they traded for him. As noted, Kolb was off the board by the time the 2nd round pick that had been the Texans rolled around. Had the Texans not traded for Schaub and shown their interest in Kevin, the Eagles could have sat at #26 and made the pick. Without selecting Kolb with a pick above Philly's, there was little chance of the Texans drafting Kevin.

And what if the Texans had waited around till draft day to make a move on Schaub? Well, they would have been out of luck, as Matt would very likely be off the table, considering the issues with Falcons have with Michael Vick. Atlanta got good value in the deal, but they have to be asking themselves if it was the right move to make. The Texans made a bold move in dealing for Schaub, and I think it will pay off.
The premise to select Kolb was first, we have to have a vet like Garcia or Plummer.

Second, the trade for Schaub resulted in a value around #21-#24

Third, it's up to the FO to rate Kolb as to where they think he will land in the draft and act accordingly.

The fall back, in my assumption, is we still have Garcia.

Lucky
05-02-2007, 05:02 PM
The fall back, in my assumption, is we still have Garcia.
Garcia coming to Houston was a myth. He never visited Houston. And the only indication the Texans were considering Garcia was a paragraph from John McClain.

Take that with a grain of salt. Make that the whole box.

Errant Hothy
05-02-2007, 05:04 PM
The premise to select Kolb was first, we have to have a vet like Garcia or Plummer.

Second, the trade for Schaub resulted in a value around #21-#24

Third, it's up to the FO to rate Kolb as to where they think he will land in the draft and act accordingly.

The fall back, in my assumption, is we still have Garcia.

But Garcia choose not to come here, and I don't think there was anything the FO could do to make him want to be a Texan. That is short of a massive overpay.

76Texan
05-02-2007, 05:05 PM
Garcia coming to Houston was a myth. He never visited Houston. And the only indication the Texans were considering Garcia was a paragraph from John McClain.

Take that with a grain of salt. Make that the whole box.While that is probably true, I'm curious as to why they wouldnt consider it?

Texan_Bill
05-02-2007, 05:06 PM
Garcia coming to Houston was a myth. He never visited Houston. And the only indication the Texans were considering Garcia was a paragraph from John McClain.

Take that with a grain of salt. Make that the whole box.

I think the main point there was not necessarily Garcia, because he said in earlier post "a veteran guy like Garcia or Plummer"...

real
05-02-2007, 05:06 PM
Garcia coming to Houston was a myth. He never visited Houston. And the only indication the Texans were considering Garcia was a paragraph from John McClain.

Take that with a grain of salt. Make that the whole box.

Besides that, I believe when you have the chance to grab what you consider to be a franchise QB you take him...The only thing that excited me about Garcia was the fact that he wasn't Carr...

Errant Hothy
05-02-2007, 05:07 PM
I think the main point there was not necessarily Garcia, because he said in earlier post "a veteran guy like Garcia or Plummer"...

Then which vet? Garcia didn't want to be here, and Plummer had no control over where he went, Bledsoe retired, etc.

76Texan
05-02-2007, 05:12 PM
Steve Baker, Garcia's agent, spent much of Friday negotiating with the Oakland Raiders when it appeared that Plummer was headed to Tampa Bay. However, by late in the day, Garcia still hadn't reached a deal with the Raiders.

Baker declined to discuss any specifics about Garcia, but said that the market for his client appeared to be good. Besides Tampa Bay and Oakland, the Houston Texans have also expressed interest.

yahoo sport

Texan_Bill
05-02-2007, 05:13 PM
Then which vet? Garcia didn't want to be here, and Plummer had no control over where he went, Bledsoe retired, etc.

I am not making a point about any of them - because personally I didn't want any of them... I wanted a cheap Chris Chandelier type that could hold the reigns while Steve McNair watched from the bench for a season or two...

(for those with no imagination: that means I would have signed a cheap veteran - heck used Sage the career back-up and drafted a QB this year. I would not have burned my second round pick and not signed an equivalent to a rookie).

Errant Hothy
05-02-2007, 05:21 PM
I am not making a point about any of them - because personally I didn't want any of them... I wanted a cheap Chris Chandelier type that could hold the reigns while Steve McNair watched from the bench for a season or two...

(for those with no imagination: that means I would have signed a cheap veteran - heck used Sage the career back-up and drafted a QB this year. I would not have burned my second round pick and not signed an equivalent to a rookie).

Fair enough. For me there was nobody who fell to our second round pick that I was that disappionted we were going to miss out on.

Texan_Bill
05-02-2007, 05:22 PM
Fair enough. For me there was nobody who fell to our second round pick that I was that disappionted we were going to miss out on.

I know what you are saying, but after four years of the C & C factory, we could have plugged in one of the holes with that pick - not necessarily a world beater.

real
05-02-2007, 05:24 PM
I am not making a point about any of them - because personally I didn't want any of them... I wanted a cheap Chris Chandelier type that could hold the reigns while Steve McNair watched from the bench for a season or two...

(for those with no imagination: that means I would have signed a cheap veteran - heck used Sage the career back-up and drafted a QB this year. I would not have burned my second round pick and not signed an equivalent to a rookie).

Even if you thought you could get a better QB through a trade ?

I'm thinking the Texans felt like Schaub was better than any QB coming out this year....

real
05-02-2007, 05:26 PM
I know what you are saying, but after four years of the C & C factory, we could have plugged in one of the holes with that pick - not necessarily a world beater.

Quinn + whoever we would have taken with our second round pick-or-Schaub and Okoye ?

I'll choose the latter rather than the former...

Honoring Earl 34
05-02-2007, 05:30 PM
If Okoye is the real deal , Schaub is at least a 7 on a scale of 1-10 , plus we get 2 players out of the other 5 picks then this was a real good draft and trade .

Texan_Bill
05-02-2007, 05:31 PM
Even if you thought you could get a better QB through a trade ?

I'm thinking the Texans felt like Schaub was better than any QB coming out this year....

Thats cool and I understand that.

I just don't feel like Schaub IS that guy. Besides, you wound up signing him for about the same money that Matt Leinart got last year... Leinart was 6 years about $51 mill and Schaub was 6 years at about $48 mill... I know the guaranteed money is different, and I know that the Texans left themselves an out after 3 years and $ 20 million - but thats still a lot of money for A) another QB with lots of "potential"; B) for a team whose salary cap money isnt great; and C) a team that has many, many more holes to fill...

Texan_Bill
05-02-2007, 05:38 PM
Quinn + whoever we would have taken with our second round pick-or-Schaub and Okoye ?

I'll choose the latter rather than the former...

I wouldn't have taken Quinn, today, tomorrow - next year... I was glad to see him plummet, because I always thought he was over-rated. I wouldnt have take a QB in the first - period....

So... If I coveted Okoye (which I did), I would have grabbed him at #8 if I wanted. I would have had a second round (take Kolb if thats the guy you want in the second).... Basically the same thing - with A LOT less money spent...

Okoye - Kolb (or whichever qb thought fit best)= less money
Okoye - Schaub = Lots of money...