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Bipolar The Titan
04-26-2007, 10:43 PM
If the Texans were just gonna dump Carr anyways, why didn't they draft Young when they had the chance? Williams is a good pick I guess but if they were just going to turn around and "upgrade" at qb the next year, why wouldn't the Texans just take Young? Doesn't make sense to me.

At what point did the Texans decide they were going another direction at qb? Was it after the last years draft? Also, what was up with Carr's contract? I mean, was it up, did he want a crazy extentsion or what? Why isn't Young a Texan? Seems like the logical choice.

Hookem Horns
04-26-2007, 10:56 PM
If the Texans were just gonna dump Carr anyways, why didn't they draft Young when they had the chance? Williams is a good pick I guess but if they were just going to turn around and "upgrade" at qb the next year, why wouldn't the Texans just take Young? Doesn't make sense to me.

At what point did the Texans decide they were going another direction at qb? Was it after the last years draft? Also, what was up with Carr's contract? I mean, was it up, did he want a crazy extentsion or what? Why isn't Young a Texan? Seems like the logical choice.

Because before last year's draft the Texans were already set at the QB position. Carr was the face of the franchise and the man of the future. Carr just never had a chance to success due to bad coaching and Kubiak was going to get him going in the right direction. Any fan that said other wise was just a UT homer or had no clue about football.

Ole Miss Texan
04-26-2007, 11:00 PM
that's a good question.

But in all honesty, what makes you think Vince Young was the highest rated QB on their board?

He sure showed a lot last year, but just because he went to UT and is from Houston isn't why you take a QB #1. If you are really asking this from a football standpoint...you should include Matt Leinart too. I feel VY is in the debate mostly because he's from houston and did well after the fact, during his rookie campaign in the nfl.

Marcus
04-26-2007, 11:02 PM
This is not the official Texans message board, so I would have thought the mods would be more proactive regarding Titans trolls.

HJam72
04-26-2007, 11:10 PM
If the Texans were just gonna dump Carr anyways, why didn't they draft Young when they had the chance? Williams is a good pick I guess but if they were just going to turn around and "upgrade" at qb the next year, why wouldn't the Texans just take Young? Doesn't make sense to me.

At what point did the Texans decide they were going another direction at qb? Was it after the last years draft? Also, what was up with Carr's contract? I mean, was it up, did he want a crazy extentsion or what? Why isn't Young a Texan? Seems like the logical choice.

The answer to your question is they didn't yet know that Carr wasn't a great QB about to emerge, and they screwed up royally. Nothing against Williams, but they did. Just keep in mind that they might've taken Leinart instead. I'd be happy with either one of those two QBs and our second round pick back this year and next (Schaub trade) for losing Williams. They screwed up, but Williams is no slouch, had a bad foot last year, and will be a force to reckon with this coming year.

Hookem Horns
04-26-2007, 11:21 PM
They screwed up, but Williams is no slouch, had a bad foot last year, and will be a force to reckon with this coming year.

I am concerned about Williams foot. Those types of things can become chronic for a career. Have there been any updates down there on his condition?

CrunkTex
04-26-2007, 11:37 PM
Great thread...or greatest thread?

infantrycak
04-26-2007, 11:42 PM
I am concerned about Williams foot. Those types of things can become chronic for a career. Have there been any updates down there on his condition?

There was a podiatrist on one of the radio shows this week that said plantar fasciatis is not a chronic issue. Once you get it totally healed, there is no reason to expect a repeat. No personal knowledge but that is what was said.

GTFan
04-26-2007, 11:44 PM
I thought the Young debate had long gone away by now, but I'll bite....

Say we did take Young. We'd have Young and let's say the #19 pick in this year's draft like th Titans do.

Instead, we took Mario and we have the #10 pick. You COULD argue that a desperate team would be willing to trade a 2007 and 2008 2nd round picks to move from 19 to 10. Denver seems to be willing to move from 21 to 10 for a 2nd and a 3rd this year.

So, you could easily argue that the Young comparison becomes, which would you rather have:

Vince Young VS. Mario Williams AND Matt Schaub.

Schaub won't ever be the electrifying playmaker that Vince is, but he could end up being a much better pocket QB and to boot, we have Mario Williams. We won't ever know the grade of the '06 draft until we know how both Mario and Matt turn out.

HJam72
04-27-2007, 12:11 AM
The overall draft was great. With Smith replacing CC, I expect this one to be even better (I mean for the picks we have).

Bipolar The Titan
04-27-2007, 08:15 AM
This is not the official Texans message board, so I would have thought the mods would be more proactive regarding Titans trolls.

for what it's worth pal, this thread was moved to this area. I don't intend to be running smack or trolling or whatever you have perceived me to be up until this point. If you were to review my brief posting history on this forum it would become obvious to you that my intention here is purely coversational and informational. I find last years draft scenario interesting. I want to talk to the Texans fans about it and get their take.

I find the comment about being "set" at qb last year very interesting.

what I would like to know know, hindsight 20-20...
Would Houston be better off with Leinart, Cutler, or Young?

Texan_Bill
04-27-2007, 09:14 AM
There was a podiatrist on one of the radio shows this week that said plantar fasciatis is not a chronic issue. Once you get it totally healed, there is no reason to expect a repeat. No personal knowledge but that is what was said.

Although there are rare occasions that plantar fasciitis can re-occur and become an issue, you are correct that it is not typically a chronic issue.(personal knowledge)... However, if the plantar fasciitis is not treated - with rest, it can develop into other issues, from favoring that particular foot..

Vinny
04-27-2007, 09:15 AM
This is not the official Texans message board, so I would have thought the mods would be more proactive regarding Titans trolls. I may be more proactive on you....keep it to the thread or find another thread to participate in. We got the moderation handled thankyouverymuch.

Vinny
04-27-2007, 09:17 AM
I find the comment about being "set" at qb last year very interesting.

what I would like to know know, hindsight 20-20...
Would Houston be better off with Leinart, Cutler, or Young?It's because McNair was too meddling and had an unnatural love for David Carr that hurt the franchise...that's my take on the whole deal.

Of course they would have been better off dumping Carr last year and drafting a QB...but you can't rewind this stuff. It is what it is and we move forward. Beating this like a dead horse over and over and over is kinda troll-like though...I will say that much on behalf of Marcus. I know you have been around enough to see the redundant threads on this.

hadaad
04-27-2007, 09:38 AM
I agree with Vinny but i think it's also hard to let your #1 overall pick walk away without compensation, which they would have done last year if they hadn't picked up his extension. I know they did the same thing this year, after paying him a lot more money but without a good look at the guy, I doubt Kubiak would be confident in saying "Yup. Get rid of him."

As for who they'd be better with? I don't know, but I'd say out of the three of them, Schaub most closely compares to Leinart. So Leinart.

Honoring Earl 34
04-27-2007, 09:53 AM
I hope this ends up being an isolated incedent ( Mcnair coddling Carr ). You can't run a team with your heart .

I think Carr could have been OK in the right enviroment but he was not a cornerstone player . They needed a lead dog to set the bar high ... it ended up pretty laid back around the Texans camp .

This was really evident when Glenn , Sharper , and Walker left . After that it seemed the fire was gone .... 2-14 geez ... I might have cut them all after that .

Bipolar The Titan
04-27-2007, 02:37 PM
It's because McNair was too meddling and had an unnatural love for David Carr that hurt the franchise...that's my take on the whole deal.

Of course they would have been better off dumping Carr last year and drafting a QB...but you can't rewind this stuff. It is what it is and we move forward. Beating this like a dead horse over and over and over is kinda troll-like though...I will say that much on behalf of Marcus. I know you have been around enough to see the redundant threads on this.

you give me too much credit. I haven't really seen those threads. I'm sure they are there. ok... for anyone who wants to entertain some "out there" hypotheticals... Peyton Manning... I'm sure we can all agree that he has been the nfl's best qb the past 5 years. Suppose Peyton Manning is the Texans qb since 2002... take a deep breath, I know... but just say Carr never was a Texan... instead you had Peyton Manning. Do you think Manning, Mr. Immobile would have been able to acccomplish anything much more than Carr, given the set of circumstances that Carr had to deal with?

Don't brand me troll for asking this question... it's just interesting to "shoot the breeze" in this way... I'm not trying to engage in a peeing contest here with you good people... just trying to find some acceptance through thoughtful, intelligent posting. I can tell by the landscape of this mb that there is no place for the hard core smack, so I will of course save you that, although I do have a reputation for such communication... it's just that I have a policy of "when in rome"... here I am respectful in the way the community wants it because I want to participate.

So, would P-Man take you to the promised land?

follow up question... what do you say if it turns out Carr has a monster year with the Panthers? What then?

Vinny
04-27-2007, 02:39 PM
I wasn't trying to brand anyone a troll, but I did refer to the redundant cascade of this never-ending subject...a trolling type situtation. I told Marcus to let us take care of it and I've seen enough redundant threads about this to understand his pov. I "troll" on some subjects...it's all good.

HJam72
04-27-2007, 02:44 PM
you give me too much credit. I haven't really seen those threads. I'm sure they are there. ok... for anyone who wants to entertain some "out there" hypotheticals... Peyton Manning... I'm sure we can all agree that he has been the nfl's best qb the past 5 years. Suppose Peyton Manning is the Texans qb since 2002... take a deep breath, I know... but just say Carr never was a Texan... instead you had Peyton Manning. Do you think Manning, Mr. Immobile would have been able to acccomplish anything much more than Carr, given the set of circumstances that Carr had to deal with?

Don't brand me troll for asking this question... it's just interesting to "shoot the breeze" in this way... I'm not trying to engage in a peeing contest here with you good people... just trying to find some acceptance through thoughtful, intelligent posting. I can tell by the landscape of this mb that there is no place for the hard core smack, so I will of course save you that, although I do have a reputation for such communication... it's just that I have a policy of "when in rome"... here I am respectful in the way the community wants it because I want to participate.

So, would P-Man take you to the promised land?

follow up question... what do you say if it turns out Carr has a monster year with the Panthers? What then?

No, but we would've been better and probably made the playoffs before now.

One thing that should be mentioned is that we have (had, whatever) higher draft picks this year as a result of a 6-10 season that could've been better if we'd chosen Leinart, for instance. So, we got something back in the form of 2007 draft picks--and we still have Mario, so these things don't kill you forever. Only thing for sure is that LAST YEAR we would have had a better team with Leinart or Young.

On Carr and the Panthers: I hope that does happen, but, even if it does, it won't be for a few years. Carr needs to be coached up a lot. He's been coached badly for years, and Kubiak couldn't believe how unNFL ready he was. If it did happen that soon (I'd be shocked first off), I'd say that David Carr needed a new home REALLY BAD, because it wouldn't have happened nearly that fast around here.

Double Barrel
04-27-2007, 02:51 PM
ok... for anyone who wants to entertain some "out there" hypotheticals... Peyton Manning... I'm sure we can all agree that he has been the nfl's best qb the past 5 years. Suppose Peyton Manning is the Texans qb since 2002... take a deep breath, I know... but just say Carr never was a Texan... instead you had Peyton Manning. Do you think Manning, Mr. Immobile would have been able to acccomplish anything much more than Carr, given the set of circumstances that Carr had to deal with?

This is just my opinion, and I'm not a "Carr hater" (or "homer" for that matter)...

But Manning is world's above Carr as a QB. Where do we start? PM can make pre-snap reads and make adjustments, Carr couldn't. PM can audible hot routes to take advantage of match ups with the D (no doubt from his extensive viewing of game film), DC didn't. PM can feel the rush and step up into the pocket, making precision throws off of one foot a second before getting hit. He knows where his #2, #3, and #4 options are and how to get the ball to them in stride so they can rack up YAC.

Carr is a mediocre QB, at best. This isn't a slam any more than saying Brad Johnson or Trent Dilfer are mediocre QBs (both have rings, btw). He just is who he is, and a look at his college scouting report reveals that he is the same player today as he was 5 years ago. Blame it on coaching, poor offensive line, Carr's head, all of the above, whatever, but he is not a player that will make vast strides in improving his game.

As far as my take of Carr in Carolina....I'd venture that their offensive line will look a whole lot worse when he starts taking snaps.

Bipolar The Titan
04-27-2007, 03:50 PM
that would be crazy if the Panthers won the NFC South.

Blazing Arrow
04-27-2007, 04:17 PM
that would be crazy if the Panthers won the NFC South.

Carr ..... 2007 NFC MVP :embarrass

Bipolar The Titan
04-27-2007, 04:20 PM
Carr ..... 2007 NFC MVP :embarrass

no... league mvp... even better! :devilpig:

Blazing Arrow
04-27-2007, 04:40 PM
no... league mvp... even better! :devilpig:

Well we all know who is going to get that .....

http://cache.viewimages.com/xt/72653593.jpg?v=1&g=editorial_na&s=1

Double Barrel
04-27-2007, 05:19 PM
Carr ..... 2007 NFC MVP :embarrass

Alright, I had a suspicion, but now it's confirmed: put down the crack pipe! :joker:

Bipolar The Titan
04-28-2007, 01:10 AM
http://media.html-codes.com/graphics/276.jpg

HJam72
04-28-2007, 02:30 AM
Ouch. :cool:

thunderkyss
04-30-2007, 10:45 PM
The answer to your question is they didn't yet know that Carr wasn't a great QB about to emerge, and they screwed up royally. Nothing against Williams, but they did. Just keep in mind that they might've taken Leinart instead. I'd be happy with either one of those two QBs and our second round pick back this year and next (Schaub trade) for losing Williams. They screwed up, but Williams is no slouch, had a bad foot last year, and will be a force to reckon with this coming year.

I've got nothing to back this up, this is all from the gut, but it makes more sense than what you have here. No offense HJam, if that's what you think it was, it just doesn't compute to me. You've got a guy who has been developing for 4 years and looks worse than he did on day one. You don't give that guy a three year deal & $8million if you don't know that he has it. If there was any uncertainty, you just let him walk, and try again.

Everything Kubiak said about David is as true today, as it was last January. He's got the size, he's got the arm, he's pretty athletic, and he's tough as nails. there is no reason to believe he won't be playing in the Super Bowl one day.

But think about all the players we've lost for no good reason. Sharper, Glenn, Coleman, Walker, Gafney, Robaire, Wand, and there were quite a few others. They weren't amoung the best in the league, but they were amoung the best players we had, and they still had a few years left in them. Think about Wand, it makes absolutely no sense to let him go the way we did, to keep Brad Bedell, who wasn't trusted to play the remainder of a game when our starter was on IR, and our back-up was obviously playing with tremendous pain.

And with everything that went down at the end of the season, I think David Carr was tearing this team apart.

IMHO, Kubiak figured we can continue to whittle this team down until we can actually start building around David Carr.

Or we can build our team around what was not a bad team in spite of David Carr.

Now David is in a good place... he's the back-up on what is relative to us, a winning team. They expect to win. If David can get that back, then who knows, maybe we'll see him in the Super Bowl. Maybe he'll be on the cover of Madden 2010. Maybe he'll be a top ten QB.... who knows??

Runner
04-30-2007, 11:05 PM
..."out there" hypotheticals... Peyton Manning... I'm sure we can all agree that he has been the nfl's best qb the past 5 years. Suppose Peyton Manning is the Texans qb since 2002... take a deep breath, I know... but just say Carr never was a Texan... instead you had Peyton Manning. Do you think Manning, Mr. Immobile would have been able to acccomplish anything much more than Carr, given the set of circumstances that Carr had to deal with?
...

Manning probably would have gotten hurt.

thunderkyss
04-30-2007, 11:06 PM
you give me too much credit. I haven't really seen those threads. I'm sure they are there. ok... for anyone who wants to entertain some "out there" hypotheticals... Peyton Manning... I'm sure we can all agree that he has been the nfl's best qb the past 5 years. Suppose Peyton Manning is the Texans qb since 2002... take a deep breath, I know... but just say Carr never was a Texan... instead you had Peyton Manning. Do you think Manning, Mr. Immobile would have been able to acccomplish anything much more than Carr, given the set of circumstances that Carr had to deal with?


I see what you're getting at. You're asking are we smart enough to know that a guy getting sacked over 200 times in 4 years means the OL sucks.

well, we know that we have protection issues. But the most honest guys here will tell you about the fresno tuck, they'll tell you about the fetal position, they'll tell you about the times our QB tripped on his own two feet, and just waited for the defense to jump on him.

Not like that play where Vince tripped on his own feet, then jumped up and threw a pretty dang good pass to Drew Bennette(I think it was Bennette) but Faggins just jumped in front of him and took that ball away.

Or when Plummer ate the dirt in our preseason game, but he bounced up and threw like a 30 yard strike.

Our guy layed there, and took the sack.

People around here want to be nice, but if you count all the times David pulled the ball back in (on a three step drop no less) that ended up in sacks, then half of his sacks in 2006 were on him.


follow up question... what do you say if it turns out Carr has a monster year with the Panthers? What then?


I'd say it took getting cut for him to wake up and start playing football.

Now let me ask you this. What would you say, if Benette, Wade, Henry & Brown go on to the ProBowl, and all of them make it to the play-offs, while you & Vince watch from Hooters?? What then?? How would you feel if David Givens is out for another season??

Y'know, stuff happens. We all make questionable decisions that don't work out the way we planned(Chris Brown... Lendale White.. PacMan Jones).. no reason to keep bringing it up. :gun:

Runner
04-30-2007, 11:12 PM
It is kind of funny. The first two or three years it was all the line's fault, and Carr was a golden boy with no faults for many on the board. I know there were some exceptions, but the majority blamed the line for all the problems. Now it is all Carr's fault and our line is good just the way it is.

I think Carr as a player and the o-line as a group all had problems, but I'm starting to sound like a troll on that subect.

thunderkyss
04-30-2007, 11:19 PM
It is kind of funny. The first two or three years it was all the line's fault, and Carr was a golden boy with no faults for many on the board. I know there were some exceptions, but the majority blamed the line for all the problems. Now it is all Carr's fault and our line is good just the way it is.

I think Carr as a player and the o-line as a group all had problems, but I'm starting to sound like a troll on that subect.

Yeah, it's kinda wierd how somethings improve over time, and other things don't.

Runner
04-30-2007, 11:31 PM
Yeah, it's kinda wierd how somethings improve over time, and other things don't.

And some things never change.

The world really is kind of grey, though I admit black and white thinking is much easier. That must be its allure.

thunderkyss
05-01-2007, 07:17 AM
And some things never change.

The world really is kind of grey, though I admit black and white thinking is much easier. That must be its allure.

We saw the same thing happen in '07. David played decent at the beginning of the year, and the rest of the team was blah... as the season went on, the rest of the team improved quite a bit. The run game was much better at the end of the year than it was at the beginning. The defense, better at the end of the year.... the QB play.... not as good. Everything has improved around him, but him.

color it black, white, gray, whatever, it's still a duck.

Texan_Bill
05-01-2007, 07:46 AM
LMAO....

David Carr is now the enemy! I hope he does as poorly as I hope Manning, VY or anyone playing against the Texans will do - other than that, good luck to the guy - MOVE ON... GAME OVER...

Coulda, shoulda, woulda.... Let it die people.

We just put more quarters in the game to play again. Lets just hope that Schaub can live up to the "potential" that the team valued so highly... If he sucks, bench him like Kubiak finally did with Carr in Tennessee. I don't think Kubes will coddle Schaub the way Carr was coddled under Capers.

I also beleive that Kubes (or the coaches) won't instruct Schaub to lock in on one receiver as Andre Johnson had suggested was being done with Carr... For all of those reasons (and many more), we will see great improvement from that position on the field. The real question is, will it be enough to make our O - go!

Well, thats why they play the games...

Shaft75
05-01-2007, 12:57 PM
I also beleive that Kubes (or the coaches) won't instruct Schaub to lock in on one receiver as Andre Johnson had suggested was being done with Carr...



He has mentored and played with some great NFL qbs. You are very true in that assesment. Gary just needs a qb that can at least digest a playbook or see that a good offensive system has a concept.
BUT... I think we need to get off the qbs and talk more about dbs... That is going to be are main struggle this year.

76Texan
05-01-2007, 05:54 PM
We saw the same thing happen in '07. David played decent at the beginning of the year, and the rest of the team was blah... as the season went on, the rest of the team improved quite a bit. The run game was much better at the end of the year than it was at the beginning. The defense, better at the end of the year.... the QB play.... not as good. Everything has improved around him, but him.

color it black, white, gray, whatever, it's still a duck.I've mentioned it before, toward the end, we played against many teams who were not good at defending the running game. Kubiak was taking advantage of that and ran the ball more. True, Carr did regress some. But no, the O-line did not improve its pass protection.

The Dream
05-10-2007, 04:08 PM
Because before last year's draft the Texans were already set at the QB position. Carr was the face of the franchise and the man of the future. Carr just never had a chance to success due to bad coaching and Kubiak was going to get him going in the right direction. Any fan that said other wise was just a UT homer or had no clue about football.

OR actually knew what the hell they were talking about...

ledzeppelin229
05-10-2007, 04:18 PM
Regardless of the Young debate, Carr was on thin ice and should have been replaced, whether it was Young or someone else. Not everyone that was sick of Carr was a UT homer that cried themselves to sleep when Mario was picked.

I had hopes that Kubiak would make him a functional QB, at the very least. But he just reverted back to the Pendry/Palmer gameplan - which clearly reflects the player moreso than the coaches. His role devolved the same way under three different OCs which definitely reduces Carr's coaching excuses.

The Dream
05-10-2007, 04:21 PM
^^i agree..before VY even decided to come out I thought it was time for the texans to head in another direction.....

Blazing Arrow
05-10-2007, 04:23 PM
Not everyone that was sick of Carr was a UT homer that cried themselves to sleep when Mario was picked.

How about after the 39 yard run in OT?

real
05-10-2007, 04:27 PM
delete

Specnatz
05-10-2007, 04:33 PM
David Carr is going to suffer wherever he goes...

I'm not even going to call the guy mediocre...that ship has sailed...I no longer have to be civil because Hulk is here...

David Carr was terrible...He's a seperate entity from the O-line...

Yes the O-line had their faults, but what does that have to do with David's ? It's

You do not have to be civil when talking about his football execution, or lack there of. At least you do not make it personnal.

ChildressTitanMan
06-13-2007, 02:24 PM
How would the Carr situation have played out had the Texans taken Bush or Da'Brick in last years draft? Williams will be a fine player but DE shouldn't have been top of your need list.

Delhomme has a habit of disappearing mid season So it isn't much of a leap to see Carr starting for Carolina at some point this coming season.

It's definately going to be interesting to see how Schaub performs behind your Line & if Carr will be any different behind the Panthers line.

The Pencil Neck
06-13-2007, 02:35 PM
How would the Carr situation have played out had the Texans taken Bush or Da'Brick in last years draft? Williams will be a fine player but DE shouldn't have been top of your need list.

Delhomme has a habit of disappearing mid season So it isn't much of a leap to see Carr starting for Carolina at some point this coming season.

It's definately going to be interesting to see how Schaub performs behind your Line & if Carr will be any different behind the Panthers line.

I don't think having Bush or D'Brick would have had a huge impact on the Carr situation. And if anything, it would have been worse.

D'Brick gave up more sacks last year than our LT did. I think D'Brick is going to be a good LT but he wasn't a great one last year.

And, personally, I think Bush would have had problems. We needed an every down back and Bush needs to be a slash type of player. Bush started off slow last season and really wasn't good in the running game. If we had drafted him and with Domanick not coming back from injury, we would have needed RB to be an every down back and he would have failed miserably. Bush did much, much better as a receiver out of the backfield. But even then, he had to be fed the ball A LOT and he made a lot of negative or 0 yard plays. We wouldn't have had enough balls to give to him and to AJ.

So, I think if we had drafted either D'Brick (which is who I wanted to pick) or RB, we actually would have been worse off.

Double Barrel
06-13-2007, 02:41 PM
How would the Carr situation have played out had the Texans taken Bush or Da'Brick in last years draft? Williams will be a fine player but DE shouldn't have been top of your need list.

Better players won't fix mediocrity. Carr's problems - many a result of starting on an expansion team in his rookie year - are now far beyond just giving him a better team. Reading defenses and making adjustments, pocket presence, timing patterns, throwing down the middle, clutch play...these are things that are in the head, not in physical skills. And at this point in his career, many of Carr's problems are in his head.

As far as DE is concerned, the philosophy was that being in Manning's division means we'll need a solid pass rush. Obviously it's a 'time will tell' situation at this point.

ChildressTitanMan
06-13-2007, 02:52 PM
And at this point in his career, many of Carr's problems are in his head.


True.

Bad habits are hard to fix once they're ingrained. It undoubtedly hurt his development starting out with a new franchise.

One thing that is for sure is that he was done in Houston. I don't think any amount of new players around him would have restored his confidence. The same was said of Steve Young when he left TB though.

I'm not saying Carr could ever compare to Young but that sometimes guys can turn a career around.

Specnatz
06-13-2007, 02:57 PM
True.

Bad habits are hard to fix once they're ingrained. It undoubtedly hurt his development starting out with a new franchise.

One thing that is for sure is that he was done in Houston. I don't think any amount of new players around him would have restored his confidence. The same was said of Steve Young when he left TB though.

I'm not saying Carr could ever compare to Young but that sometimes guys can turn a career around.

I will take an educated guess when you say young that you are referring to vince and not Steve, but you say it like vy has been in the league 5 years and not just one year. But they do compare in one stat .. they both threw one more int than TD.

All I am saying is if you are goig to compare QBs, please use someone who has been in the league longer than only one season.

Runner
06-13-2007, 05:25 PM
D'Brick gave up more sacks last year than our LT did. I think D'Brick is going to be a good LT but he wasn't a great one last year.


D'Brick was also blocking for an NFL style passing attack.


But hey - give the Jets a call. Salaam for D'Brick, straight up, unless we can get a late round draft pick too. :)

Blazing Arrow
06-13-2007, 05:30 PM
I don't think having Bush or D'Brick would have had a huge impact on the Carr situation. And if anything, it would have been worse.



I think Bush would have helped Carr in the fact he would have had an outlet he currently does/did not have. Bush had 70+ rec with a heafty YAC. If the LB has to watch the back they are not going to be able to focus on the Qb as much and you will get less pressure. But I also think that would have been a stop gap until you eventually had to get rid of Carr.

Il_Bruno
06-13-2007, 05:31 PM
I will take an educated guess when you say young that you are referring to vince and not Steve, but you say it like vy has been in the league 5 years and not just one year. But they do compare in one stat .. they both threw one more int than TD.

All I am saying is if you are goig to compare QBs, please use someone who has been in the league longer than only one season.


Im pretty sure he was talking about steve young, cause vince had nothing to do with tampa bay.

dont just go out of your way to bash vince unless its called for, he's just saying that someone has turned a career around and become one of the better QBs to play the game after a bad start, much like David. Is it going to happen to carr? probably not, not enough fire in him to fuel a turnaround of that proportion, but its possible.

just not very likely :cool:

Specnatz
06-13-2007, 05:34 PM
Im pretty sure he was talking about steve young, cause vince had nothing to do with tampa bay.

dont just go out of your way to bash vince unless its called for, he's just saying that someone has turned a career around and become one of the better QBs to play the game after a bad start, much like David. Is it going to happen to carr? probably not, not enough fire in him to fuel a turnaround of that proportion, but its possible.

just not very likely :cool:

It was a joke badly done but only a joke.

The Pencil Neck
06-13-2007, 06:02 PM
I think Bush would have helped Carr in the fact he would have had an outlet he currently does/did not have. Bush had 70+ rec with a heafty YAC. If the LB has to watch the back they are not going to be able to focus on the Qb as much and you will get less pressure. But I also think that would have been a stop gap until you eventually had to get rid of Carr.

Carr didn't have a problem throwing to an outlet receiver. In fact, that was his biggest problem. He wasn't going through his reads in a lot of instances and just throwing it to the dumpoff.

Bush got 3.6 yards per carry behind an offensive line that was probably blocking better than ours was. If he had been with us, we would have needed him to be the #1 option running instead of a decoy. He would have been destroyed.

And in the passing game, he wouldn't have gotten 70+ receptions with us. As it was, we threw 88 passes to our RB's and the Saints threw over 140. The Saints had so many options working (Colston, Henderson, Horne) that they could afford to keep feeding RB the ball until he broke one.

Blazing Arrow
06-13-2007, 06:17 PM
Carr didn't have a problem throwing to an outlet receiver. In fact, that was his biggest problem. He wasn't going through his reads in a lot of instances and just throwing it to the dumpoff.

Bush got 3.6 yards per carry behind an offensive line that was probably blocking better than ours was. If he had been with us, we would have needed him to be the #1 option running instead of a decoy. He would have been destroyed.

And in the passing game, he wouldn't have gotten 70+ receptions with us. As it was, we threw 88 passes to our RB's and the Saints threw over 140. The Saints had so many options working (Colston, Henderson, Horne) that they could afford to keep feeding RB the ball until he broke one.

But Carr was not outletting to Bush. If he had Bush to outlet to the spead and the spread would have helped you guys out allot. Carr was shell shocked the last could of seasons. You put a speed back like Bush in there with Dayne as the heavy back I think it would have helped your O-line.

You also have to look at who the Saints had at RB. Bush and McCallister (rookie stud and proven back) vs Dayne and Lundy (bust and 6th round rookie).

True he could not have been an every down back and there is some weight to that but in the end he was a good outlet. For a struggling O-line getting the ball out quickly is key. Bush in the open field was amazing last season. Screens and outlets give that opportunity.

ChildressTitanMan
06-14-2007, 03:04 AM
Im pretty sure he was talking about steve young, cause vince had nothing to do with tampa bay.

dont just go out of your way to bash vince unless its called for, he's just saying that someone has turned a career around and become one of the better QBs to play the game after a bad start, much like David. Is it going to happen to carr? probably not, not enough fire in him to fuel a turnaround of that proportion, but its possible.

just not very likely :cool:

Your right on the money dude.

Specnatz secret homer side got the better of him.:joker:

Overalls
06-14-2007, 06:41 AM
I was a trade down guy last season, but I will admit that I started thinking about what we could do with DD/W and Bush in the same backfield when it started looking like we were going to take Bush. At that time I still had faith in Carr and thought DD/W was going to play for us and not spend the season on IR. The Mario pick did throw me off, but I have long since warmed to the idea of building a dominating D starting with the guys up. If we have gotten better production out of TJ and Babin we may not have felt the need to to go with Mario last season, but at this point it doesn't really matter. Babin for all his faults is still a player with upside and while he was like 67th in the league in sacks last season he still lead our lousey pass rush in sacks. TJ may be relegated to quality depth now, but without depth your line will severly suffer when it loses players to injury, like ours did last season. On paper, atleast we have the makings of a D that should climb the charts from last offseason. IF our D can give our O a shorter field to work with and IF Shaub can actually see some one besides AJ 3 yards down field we should get more yards. Just as an example. In the Titans games we lost by 6 points. One of those in OT. IF we would have held the Titans back a few yards once on D and prevented a FG we would have won the game. We would now be sitting here with the same record as the Titans because then both teams would be 7-9. Would it have been anything to brag about? No. Still in a game measured by yards you have to prevent the other team from getting yards. We have made strides this offseason toward preventing the other team from getting yards. If our D gells maybe we can start spending the higher draft picks on O. We could even spend a 1st next season on the best available RB, WR, or OT. Who knows.

LET THE GAMES BEGIN.

real
06-14-2007, 08:58 AM
But Carr was not outletting to Bush. If he had Bush to outlet to the spead and the spread would have helped you guys out allot. Carr was shell shocked the last could of seasons. You put a speed back like Bush in there with Dayne as the heavy back I think it would have helped your O-line.

You also have to look at who the Saints had at RB. Bush and McCallister (rookie stud and proven back) vs Dayne and Lundy (bust and 6th round rookie).

True he could not have been an every down back and there is some weight to that but in the end he was a good outlet. For a struggling O-line getting the ball out quickly is key. Bush in the open field was amazing last season. Screens and outlets give that opportunity.

Bush benefited from having offensive talent around him. In the Saints offense you can't key on Reggie. He'd have been keyed on here. You can give David Carr 3 pro-bowl recievers, a pro-bowl OL and a stud RB, and he still would be bad. David's problems have nothing to do with the talent around him, though it didn't help. David's problems have to do with mechanics, footwork, and timing...He is a nervouse guy in the pocket and it shows...He's indecisive...VERY POOR at making pre-snap reads....Poor Game manager...He gets too high with the good times, and too low with the bad....he's inconsistent...Can't escape pressure....Can't make throws when being pressured...has no feel for the pressure....does a poor job holding on to the ball when hit...Leadership skills are lacking...Confidence issues...doesn't take it upon himself to will his team to win....does a poor job leading recievers...does a poor job reading defenses which cause hardly any balls thrown over the middle or over 10 yards...Pretty much has to be told exactly what to do or he gets flustered and indecisive...I could go on and on about Mr. Carr...

He's a good guy (really a shame that I have to preface my sentence with that, and btw that is the last time as it is not relevant), but his footall skills, past his natural ability, is invisible. The only thing posotive you can say about David is that he has all the physical tools (which a lot of guys who weren't picked #1 overall have) and go down memory lane regarding his college stats...I really doubt David does well in Panther land because I just think he is a bad football player...no crime with that...he can help society in other ways...

But if he does do well, I will honestly admire him for getting over such adverity.

ChildressTitanMan
06-14-2007, 05:12 PM
We have made strides this offseason toward preventing the other team from getting yards. If our D gells maybe we can start spending the higher draft picks on O. We could even spend a 1st next season on the best available RB, WR, or OT. Who knows.


I think this has been Houston's problem all along. Either build a solid D or O & work forward from that. You now have a shot at finishing the job on the D side of things.

Texan_Bill
06-14-2007, 05:27 PM
I think this has been Houston's problem all along. Either build a solid D or O & work forward from that. You now have a shot at finishing the job on the D side of things.

Thats the criticism I have had. I think what skews it though, is that the C&C factory were all over the place. But overall I agree, pick a side of the ball to focus on, and you can still sprinkle in some picks on the other side of the ball.

Remember, for the Texans, this is Rick Smith's first draft class.

Bipolar The Titan
06-14-2007, 06:40 PM
http://images.sportinglife.com/07/03/330/MattSchaub_209601.jpg

Carr 2.0

Blazing Arrow
06-14-2007, 06:46 PM
I always thought it was get the Carr dirty, then use the shammy ....

http://diskdoctor.com.au/sites/diskdoctor.com.au/images/products/large/shammy_lg.jpg

Honoring Earl 34
06-14-2007, 06:48 PM
I always thought it was get the Carr dirty, then use the shammy ....

http://diskdoctor.com.au/sites/diskdoctor.com.au/images/products/large/shammy_lg.jpg

Your mad because your MVP is not here anymore .

Blazing Arrow
06-14-2007, 06:51 PM
Your mad because your MVP is not here anymore .

I know the AFC South just lost ~25 sacks a season. Fingers crossed that Shammy can hold Carr's jock when it comes to sacks totals.

Bipolar The Titan
06-14-2007, 06:55 PM
Your mad because your MVP is not here anymore .

http://images.nfl.com/u/photos/pl_834313.jpg

this mvp? What? Did break his boot camp for inexperienced receivers to give 'em time off before training camp? ohh.. I'm furious! :wild:

Blazing Arrow
06-14-2007, 09:08 PM
http://images.nfl.com/u/photos/pl_834313.jpg

this mvp? What? Did break his boot camp for inexperienced receivers to give 'em time off before training camp? ohh.. I'm furious! :wild:

I hear Joel Filani showed up late to the "optional" WR camp and Young pinned him on the ground tied two full racks of beef ribs on him and let L-Dub chase him for five hours before finally releasing him.

Young was quoted as saying "If I don't motivate them I will find someone who does."

PitBull
06-15-2007, 07:41 AM
you really have to wonder if Schuab would be considered an upgrade over Carr..

Sure.. most Texans fans were pleased and almost relieved to see him hit the road, but to be honest I've always reserved a little bit of admiration for Carr and the way his game elevated over the five years as a starter while noting last years comp% as one of the highest in the league. Well, umm.. 'admiration' might be considered giving him too much credit, so i'll just stick with the word 'respect' instead.

Comparing both QBs int/comp would put Carr in the lead at 1 int per 32 attempts compared to Schaub's 1 int per 27 attempts, and when it comes down to it.. you can't help but wonder if Carr would fit in more comfortably with the Panther's o-line compared to the Texan's line which many would argue to never really have hit its comfort level since 02.

I would have probably stuck with Carr considering the 5 years already invested in him and tried to make the changes around him instead of at him and drafted Reggie Bush to help out in the ground attack instead..

But hey... last years' draft is old news as many on this thread have already mentioned and good luck with the new guy.. although it might just require more than just luck to expect better results from him than Carr.

Specnatz
06-15-2007, 08:19 AM
you really have to wonder if Schuab would be considered an upgrade over Carr..

Sure.. most Texans fans were pleased and almost relieved to see him hit the road, but to be honest I've always reserved a little bit of admiration for Carr and the way his game elevated over the five years as a starter while noting last years comp% as one of the highest in the league. Well, umm.. 'admiration' might be considered giving him too much credit, so i'll just stick with the word 'respect' instead.

Comparing both QBs int/comp would put Carr in the lead at 1 int per 32 attempts compared to Schaub's 1 int per 27 attempts, and when it comes down to it.. you can't help but wonder if Carr would fit in more comfortably with the Panther's o-line compared to the Texan's line which many would argue to never really have hit its comfort level since 02.

I would have probably stuck with Carr considering the 5 years already invested in him and tried to make the changes around him instead of at him and drafted Reggie Bush to help out in the ground attack instead..

But hey... last years' draft is old news as many on this thread have already mentioned and good luck with the new guy.. although it might just require more than just luck to expect better results from him than Carr.


Great post. :sarcasm:

It shows you know nothing about football or the Texans or Carr or watched any games and you only looked at the stat sheet. Nice job. If you go by pass completion % you would take Frye over Brady, and that would be just smart right?

real
06-15-2007, 08:25 AM
you really have to wonder if Schuab would be considered an upgrade over Carr..

Sure.. most Texans fans were pleased and almost relieved to see him hit the road, but to be honest I've always reserved a little bit of admiration for Carr and the way his game elevated over the five years as a starter while noting last years comp% as one of the highest in the league. Well, umm.. 'admiration' might be considered giving him too much credit, so i'll just stick with the word 'respect' instead.

Comparing both QBs int/comp would put Carr in the lead at 1 int per 32 attempts compared to Schaub's 1 int per 27 attempts, and when it comes down to it.. you can't help but wonder if Carr would fit in more comfortably with the Panther's o-line compared to the Texan's line which many would argue to never really have hit its comfort level since 02.

I would have probably stuck with Carr considering the 5 years already invested in him and tried to make the changes around him instead of at him and drafted Reggie Bush to help out in the ground attack instead..

But hey... last years' draft is old news as many on this thread have already mentioned and good luck with the new guy.. although it might just require more than just luck to expect better results from him than Carr.

How about watching some actual games and not a stat sheet.

PitBull
06-15-2007, 08:37 AM
Great post. :sarcasm:

It shows you know nothing about football or the Texans or Carr or watched any games and you only looked at the stat sheet. Nice job. If you go by pass completion % you would take Frye over Brady, and that would be just smart right?

:user: .. How honored..
You must be in charge of the welcoming committee here.
Why i am not surprised that my first post would be most welcomed by moo... my bad.. i mean 'you'.

Thanks for reminding me to leave out the stats next time i attempt to compare QBs. Instead, just go on instincts and who you think would do a better job under the circumstances. http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/sarcasm.gif

real
06-15-2007, 08:45 AM
Thanks for reminding me to leave out the stats next time i attempt to compare QBs. Instead, just go on instincts and who you think would do a better job under the circumstances. :sarcasm:

This coming from a team with VY as it's QB. I thought maybe you'd have a basic understanding of football past a stat sheet.....guess not.

PitBull
06-15-2007, 08:49 AM
This coming from a team with VY as it's QB. I thought maybe you'd have a basic understanding of football past a stat sheet.....guess not.


Oh no.. what do I know.
Its not like poor little ‘me’ boasts the knowledge to go head to head with such a great fan such as yourself who has seen many QBs play and succeed for the team he supports.

:fans:


God forbids I try to shed some common sense on a fan whose coaching staff just recently passed on the QB of a lifetime just to turn around and sign a medicore QB at best less than a year later.

real
06-15-2007, 08:56 AM
God forbids I try to shed some common sense on a fan whose coaching staff just recently passed on the QB of a lifetime just to turn around and sign a medicore QB at best less than a year later.

Not really sure what that has to do with anything.

God forbid someone judges a QB by actually watching a game instead of searching the net for stats, otherwise your QB sucks. Fantasy football IS your friend.:heart:

Honoring Earl 34
06-15-2007, 09:00 AM
God forbids I try to shed some common sense on a fan whose coaching staff just recently passed on the QB of a lifetime just to turn around and sign a medicore QB at best less than a year later.



While Vince is a play maker ... I might wait 10 years before I deem him QB of a lifetime .

How do you know Schaub's mediocre at best ? I think Schaub will have a better passing year than once in a lifetime QB .

Carr needed to go ... the Texans and Carr were tired of each other . Besides we really needed what Carr did'nt have . :cowboy1:

PitBull
06-15-2007, 09:00 AM
Not really sure what that has to do with anything.

God forbid someone judges a QB by actually watching a game instead of searching the net for stats, otherwise your QB sucks. Fantasy football IS your friend.:heart:


Great response..
You nearly got me there..

Instead i prefer to judge QBs by their ability to do this:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0FO3c01XwGI

unless you're comparing the skills of the two.. which i really for your sake hope you're not.

PitBull
06-15-2007, 09:06 AM
While Vince is a play maker ... I might wait 10 years before I deem him QB of a lifetime .

How do you know Schaub's mediocre at best ? I think Schaub will have a better passing year than once in a lifetime QB .

Carr needed to go ... the Texans and Carr were tired of each other . Besides we really needed what Carr did'nt have . :cowboy1:

Although i'm not a Texans fan, i have watched enough games to maybe yet 'foolishly' suggest that Carr might have been able to perform his duties as a QB at a higher level if maybe he was better protected by a better o-line. Maybe the coaching staff shold have concentrated a little more on that.

Is Schaub so much better than Carr, and does he possess the experience to provide better results than a 5 year vet who has lived the system..?

real
06-15-2007, 09:06 AM
Great response..
You nearly got me there..

Instead i prefer to judge QBs by their ability to do this:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0FO3c01XwGI

unless you're comparing the skills of the two.. which i really for your sake hope you're not.

I guess in your opinion Dan Marino was terrible, and Randall Cunningham was the greatest.

Gotcha.:cowboy1:

PitBull
06-15-2007, 09:08 AM
I'm really not trying to be a smart ass or your typical 'troll'.. yet i'm simply puzzled by what mgt is thinking. :gun:

real
06-15-2007, 09:08 AM
Although i'm not a Texans fan, i have watched enough games to maybe yet 'foolishly' suggest that Carr might have been able to perform his duties as a QB at a higher level if maybe he was better protected by a better o-line. Is Schaub so much better than Carr, and does he possess the experience to provide better results than a 5 year vet who has lived the system..?

Signed,

Drew Bledsoe


Co-signed,

Tom Brady and Tony Romo

real
06-15-2007, 09:11 AM
I'm really not trying to be a smart ass or your typical 'troll'.. yet i'm simply puzzled by what mgt is thinking. :gun:


This is life. In every life situation you aren't going to have the best insight being on the outside looking in.

Confusion is expected by those who use stats as their 'guiding light'. Much like VY nay-sayers. I just thought maybe since VY was your QB you'd have better insight to the fact that intangibles and a feel for the game DO matter. Being QB is much more than having 'ability', otherwise Ryan Leaf would still be playing.

PitBull
06-15-2007, 09:13 AM
I guess in your opinion Dan Marino was terrible, and Randall Cunningham was the greatest.

Gotcha.:cowboy1:



umm..
are we playing chess here? Poker?
Strip poker and show me them cow titties? :devilpig:

hell.. I think i've made valid points on why Carr would have possibly been a better QB and even threw in some stats to validate my point. If i knew your arguments would soley be revolving over these stats i probably should have left them out.

Another poster said that Shaub is an upgrade.. My question is why do you think that.. Is carr really that bad in your opinion? Do you really credit all your losing seasons to him?

Honoring Earl 34
06-15-2007, 09:18 AM
Although i'm not a Texans fan, i have watched enough games to maybe yet 'foolishly' suggest that Carr might have been able to perform his duties as a QB at a higher level if maybe he was better protected by a better o-line. Maybe the coaching staff shold have concentrated a little more on that.

Is Schaub so much better than Carr, and does he possess the experience to provide better results than a 5 year vet who has lived the system..?

Carr had one monster year when he was a senior in college and a decent 2004 . That's all he has to show for the seven years as a starter , that and an average of 4.8 wins a year as a pro . He also started every game for a 2-14 team ... while it was'nt all his fault ... a QB worth his salt gets more than 2 wins .

As a fan of the Texans and a fan of the NFL , at least I have a ray of hope in June as opposed to ... damn I hope the defense is good enough to carry us .

real
06-15-2007, 09:23 AM
umm..
are we playing chess here? Poker?
Strip poker and show me them cow titties? :devilpig:

hell.. I think i've made valid points on why Carr would have possibly been a better QB and even threw in some stats to validate my point. If i knew your arguments would soley be revolving over these stats i probably should have left them out.

Another poster said that Shaub is an upgrade.. My question is why do you think that.. Is carr really that bad in your opinion? Do you really credit all your losing seasons to him?

Carr had bad footwork, bad timing, terrible at reading defenses, terrible feel for the rush, could not make throws under pressure, didn't know how to 'buy time' to make throws, had a hard time making throws over the middle, did a bad job with ball placement, he was easily rattled, confidence issues, leadership issues, indecisive, poor at making pre-snap reads, didn't put the pressure of winning upon himself....ect....

The reasons that you give that Carr could have been successful can be used for any QB taken in the first round that has bust. You don't take guys without the 'physical tools' in the first round. So it pretty much goes without saying that he had the 'physical tools', but beyond that Carr was a bad football player.

Again, I really don't expect you to know any of that seeing as the basis of your opinion comes from stats and not actually watching the games. Your opinion is no different than most other teams fans who cruise the internet on Monday morning looking at completion percentages and INT to TD ratio's. But like I said, that is to be expected.

How about this....How about you give some valid reasons other than his physical tools, strong arm, and college stats as to why you think he is a good QB.

PitBull
06-15-2007, 09:27 AM
As a fan of the Texans and a fan of the NFL , at least I have a ray of hope in June as opposed to ... damn I hope the defense is good enough to carry us .

Good luck with that..
I'm sure the addition of Ahman Green, Jordan Black, and Amobi would provide most fans much enthusiasm, yet does the replacement of Carr in your opinion make for better results? Shouldn't Carr be given a chance to prove if he can turn the state of this franchise around with all the positive additions to the roster during this off season.

Texan_Bill
06-15-2007, 09:28 AM
Although i'm not a Texans fan, i have watched enough games to maybe yet 'foolishly' suggest that Carr might have been able to perform his duties as a QB at a higher level if maybe he was better protected by a better o-line. Maybe the coaching staff shold have concentrated a little more on that.

Is Schaub so much better than Carr, and does he possess the experience to provide better results than a 5 year vet who has lived the system..?

First, Carr's time here was done. I am of the opinion that he will be just fine somewhere else, BUT that is irrelevant. His time here was played out. Both sides needed a breath of fresh air... PERIOD!!

Second, Carr has NOT lived "the system". He went through 3-4 different schemes in 5 years which I beleive lended itself to the problem. BUT again, his time here was played out... The timing was good to move on - for both sides.

"Is Schaub so much.........???" Well thats why they play the games.

Last, I know a couple of people have mentioned that you need to watch the games and quit looking at stats. This is true. In doing so, enjoy VY's run because there aint a whole lot to look at with him throwing the ball...

Honoring Earl 34
06-15-2007, 09:29 AM
If there's one topic that's been disected and re-examined to a fault it's Carr . Pitbull ... you can't add anything new to a Carr thread .

Texan_Bill
06-15-2007, 09:30 AM
I'm sure the addition of Ahman Green, Jordan Black, and Amobi would provide most fans much enthusiasm, yet does the replacement of Carr in your opinion make for better results? Shouldn't Carr be given a chance to prove if he can turn the state of this franchise around with all the positive additions to the roster during this off season.

NO!

Again, the Carr period played out. It's over. Both sides have moved on. Good luck to Carr, but better luck to Schaub....

PitBull
06-15-2007, 09:34 AM
How about this....How about you give some valid reasons other than his physical tools, strong arm, and college stats as to why you think he is a good QB.

I don't recall saying he's a good QB. I did however suggest that I would take him and his experience as a starter as well as his positive attitude over Scaub who frankly hasen't proven to be better than Carr during his 3 years as a backup.

Wouldn't you have prefered to bring in Schaub and test him while benching Carr to determine first hand if he should win over the position instead of dumping one questionable QB for another?

Texan_Bill
06-15-2007, 09:38 AM
Two words: Salary Cap

Schaub's stock was pretty hight throughout the NFL. You would not have been able to trade for Schaub, sign him to a contract that is competitive with what other teams were willing to pay AND pay Carr's contract. We already take (I think it is) a $ 2 million hit for Carrs contract.

PitBull
06-15-2007, 09:44 AM
Two words: Salary Cap

Schaub's stock was pretty hight throughout the NFL. You would not have been able to trade for Schaub, sign him to a contract that is competitive with what other teams were willing to pay AND pay Carr's contract. We already take (I think it is) a $ 2 million hit for Carrs contract.


good luck then.
I honestly hope Mario Williams works out for you too.

It would be a shame if he didn't considering all the other QBs who were on the board.

Specnatz
06-15-2007, 09:53 AM
Good luck with that..
I'm sure the addition of Ahman Green, Jordan Black, and Amobi would provide most fans much enthusiasm, yet does the replacement of Carr in your opinion make for better results? Shouldn't Carr be given a chance to prove if he can turn the state of this franchise around with all the positive additions to the roster during this off season.

No he had enough chances before this year and his dink and dunk BS was old and not worth anything. After being cut, no team wanted him as their starter. That tells the story right there!

Oh nice clip of a running back, do you have one of an actualy QB, you know where they throw the ball?

PitBull
06-15-2007, 09:57 AM
Oh nice clip of a running back, do you have one of an actualy QB, you know where they throw the ball?


Oh you'll see plenty of throwing next year.
You really can't blame the poor performance and drops from our WRs on Vince. Last year was a bad one in terms of receivers. I'm sure you already know that. Why are you even bringing it up.

Hope your defense can keep up...

:d:

Double Barrel
06-15-2007, 10:01 AM
I've always reserved a little bit of admiration for Carr and the way his game elevated over the five years as a starter while noting last years comp% as one of the highest in the league.

yeah, that one meaningful TD he threw in the last ten games of 2006 was simply amazing! :joker:

As far as your opinion of Schaub...'eh, whatever. He's unproven at this point, so your negative analysis of him holds a much weight as a blind homer's take. Nobody really knows if he's an upgrade, but all indications at this early point indicates that he is a far better QB than our previous signal caller. Obviously, only time will tell.

Texan_Bill
06-15-2007, 10:02 AM
Oh you'll see plenty of throwing next year.
You really can't blame the poor performance and drops from our WRs on Vince. Last year was a bad one in terms of receivers. I'm sure you already know that. Why are you even bringing it up.

Hope your defense can keep up...

:d:

LMAO... Who is he going to throw it to?? LenDale "I have never met a buffet that I didn't like" White out of the backfield? How's that off-season going anyway?

News flash, VY does NOT have a stellar arm..

The "D" will more than keep up... MW, AO and DR meet at the QB!!!

PitBull
06-15-2007, 10:10 AM
LMAO... Who is he going to throw it to?? LenDale "I have never met a buffet that I didn't like" White out of the backfield? How's that off-season going anyway?

Oh how nice.
I'm assuming you're the smack monster of this forum..
how unfortunate.. how weak..

http://www.halhigdon.com/rundogsrun/dogart/laugh.jpg

Did you giggle when you made that post?

PitBull
06-15-2007, 10:14 AM
Who is he going to throw it to?? LenDale "I have never met a buffet that I didn't like" White out of the backfield?

http://home.deds.nl/~stygmata/forumspam/jerry_laugh.jpg

Texan_Bill
06-15-2007, 10:18 AM
Oh how nice.
I'm assuming you're the smack monster of this forum..
how unfortunate.. how weak..

Did you giggle when you made that post?

First, I don't talk smack. I speak in truths.

Perhaps you ought to lurk around, read, get acquainted BEFORE you troll.... We have done battle with way more knowledgable Tinbread fans and VY man-crushes than you... This was evident by your very first post.

PitBull
06-15-2007, 10:23 AM
First, I don't talk smack. I speak in truths.

Perhaps you ought to lurk around, read, get acquainted BEFORE you troll.... We have done battle with way more knowledgable Tinbread fans and VY man-crushes than you... This was evident by your very first post.


You speak in truths? how amusing..
How is there any truth to VY throwing to Lendale White? How retarded is that?

Your ignorance and the fact you have no clue of your rival rosters might be reason for what you think is true..

Bill...Get a clue about what you're talking about before you start ranting juvenile comments.

So far.. this is what you look like to me..

http://www.fnfclan.com/forums/uploads/post-91-1101866561.gif

real
06-15-2007, 10:23 AM
First, I don't talk smack. I speak in truths.

Perhaps you ought to lurk around, read, get acquainted BEFORE you troll.... We have done battle with way more knowledgable Tinbread fans and VY man-crushes than you... This was evident by your very first post.

I agree.

He is a pretty weak troll. Most Titan fans are a bit more knowledgeable than this.

Honoring Earl 34
06-15-2007, 10:29 AM
You speak in truths? how amusing..
How is there any truth to VY throwing to Lendale White? How retarded is that?

Your ignorance and the fact you have no clue of your rival rosters might be reason for what you think is true..

Bill...Get a clue about what you're talking about before you start ranting juvenile comments.

So far.. this is what you look like to me..

http://www.fnfclan.com/forums/uploads/post-91-1101866561.gif


Pitbull ... should'nt you be a Vick fan ?

Lendale White would come out of the backfield to catch a pass .... there is such a play .

Oh well you still have Bennett and Wade to throw too .

Hey ... what about Pacman ... VY gonna play CB and return kicks ... oh wait you drafted a safety for that .

The Pencil Neck
06-15-2007, 10:39 AM
Although i'm not a Texans fan, i have watched enough games to maybe yet 'foolishly' suggest that Carr might have been able to perform his duties as a QB at a higher level if maybe he was better protected by a better o-line. Maybe the coaching staff shold have concentrated a little more on that.

Is Schaub so much better than Carr, and does he possess the experience to provide better results than a 5 year vet who has lived the system..?

Yes.

Carr ws not the right kind of guy to play in our system and has only played in it for 1 year. Did you ever see Rob Johnson play? Carr is Rob Johnson. He holds the ball too long and takes too long to make the decision to run. He can't find open receivers and he can't read defenses. Like Rob Johnson, Carr is an "athlete" who really can't translate his athleticism into good QB play. He's also got really bad ball security, he holds the ball low and in one hand when he runs. He's a fumble waiting to happen.

He had 2 games last year where he threw for less than 100 yards (one of them, he threw for -5 yards net.) He almost cost us those games and he did cost us other games.

Schaub has been in the system (or related systems) for 7 or 8 years. He is the right kind of QB to play in our system. He gets rid of the ball quickly and he's able to read defenses. He's able to run effectively. He has an over the top throwing motion that won't get batted down as often as Carr's sidearm delivery.

So, yeah, getting rid of Carr was a good thing.

Texan_Bill
06-15-2007, 10:42 AM
You speak in truths? how amusing..
How is there any truth to VY throwing to Lendale White? How retarded is that?

Your ignorance and the fact you have no clue of your rival rosters might be reason for what you think is true..

Bill...Get a clue about what you're talking about before you start ranting juvenile comments.

So far.. this is what you look like to me..

Is LenDale White a running back for the Tinnbreads? Isn't VY a QB (sort of) for the Tinnbreads? Do QB's throw to their running backs coming out of the backfield? Are Titans not the inbred children of Uranus??

Its official, both White and Young are on the roster: Tinnbreads Roster (http://www.titansonline.com/team/players/name.php)

Link for you: Football 101 for Girls (http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/9-19-2005-77112.asp)

Okay... I'm done. At least, Blazing Arrow, Bipolar Titan, and ChildressTitanMan are knowledgable and we can have some interesting discussions AND fun jabbing back and forth....

PitBull
06-15-2007, 10:43 AM
Pitbull ... should'nt you be a Vick fan ?

Lendale White would come out of the backfield to catch a pass .... there is such a play .

Oh well you still have Bennett and Wade to throw too .

Naah..
Dumping the two is probably the best thing Fish has done in the entire offseason.

We do however have David Givens, Roby, Brandon Jones and rookie Paul Williams to throw to if that means anything.

Probably not in comparison to all the talent which you have on the receieving side of the ball.. :wild:

Oh wait.. who’s going to throw to them..
Oh nevermind.... Atlanta’s backup QB.

Good luck with that..


And this:

http://images.nfl.com/photos/img9408703.jpg

Texan_Bill
06-15-2007, 10:43 AM
Specnatz.... Polish this kid off!!

PitBull
06-15-2007, 10:50 AM
Is LenDale White a running back for the Tinnbreads? Isn't VY a QB (sort of) for the Tinnbreads? Do QB's throw to their running backs coming out of the backfield? Are Titans not the inbred children of Uranus??


absolutely pathetic.:wacko:

And to think i actually took the time to read that..

You're right tho about trolls having to look around first before sharing thoughts with the members.. By doing so I could have avoided sharing thoughts with a (no-sense) foil-muncher such as you..

Specnatz
06-15-2007, 10:51 AM
Naah..
Dumping the two is probably the best thing Fish has done in the entire offseason.

We do however have David Givens, Roby, Brandon Jones and rookie Paul Williams to throw to if that means anything.

Probably not in comparison to all the talent which you have on the receieving side of the ball.. :wild:

Oh wait.. who’s going to throw to them..
Oh nevermind.... Atlanta’s backup QB.

Good luck with that..


And this:

http://images.nfl.com/photos/img9408703.jpg


Well any backup QB can throw better than vy if you go by that mighty 32nd ranked 51.5% passing. So it does not matter what wr are there because no one to get them the ball unless they create running plays for them.

Mario will be just fine and I am perfectly happy having him.



:texflag:

Specnatz
06-15-2007, 10:57 AM
Let me add, that you came here to try and troll and insult the Texans about getting rid of a QB how did a wonderful completion rating but when you only throw 5 yard slant passes, you better complete it, well unless you have the worst completion percentage in the league. When you have a worse completion % than the oakland raiders you know you do not a have a QB but rather a runningback/wr playing the QB position.

Seriously if you are going to talk smack at least bring it and make a good point, but know you came here with some weak ass attempt and sucked doing it. Now go ask mom, dad or your gerbal for some better smack talk or better yet let people with a few more IQ points to do it so you do not embarrasse the rest of possum hollar.

PitBull
06-15-2007, 11:13 AM
Let me add, that you came here to try and troll and insult the Texans about getting rid of a QB how did a wonderful completion rating but when you only throw 5 yard slant passes, you better complete it, well unless you have the worst completion percentage in the league. When you have a worse completion % than the oakland raiders you know you do not a have a QB but rather a runningback/wr playing the QB position.

Seriously if you are going to talk smack at least bring it and make a good point, but know you came here with some weak ass attempt and sucked doing it. Now go ask mom, dad or your gerbal for some better smack talk or better yet let people with a few more IQ points to do it so you do not embarrasse the rest of possum hollar.

Great… Now let me say that I did not initiate the smack nor did I make ‘wacko’ statements by giving credit to Carr for putting up with the weak protection he had during his 5 years in Houston.

Bringing in Schaub might sound like the right thing to do to a desperate franchise such as yours, yet i don't see how it makes sense to replace one QB with another who probably won’t do any better under the current system..

Competing for last place in the division for the last five years doesn’t really put you in a position to mock any other QB or franchise but yours. I really don’t think my smack was initiated but more in a response to some of the retarded so called fans posting in your forum.

Good luck to you.. Hope you end the season with more wins than losses. Can’t wait to hear what you’ll be mooing then.

Blazing Arrow
06-15-2007, 11:23 AM
Specnatz.... Polish this kid off!!

This thread took a terrible turn ... :joker:

Specnatz
06-15-2007, 11:31 AM
I really don’t think my smack was initiated but more in a response to some of the retarded so called fans posting in your forum.



Hey they are so called fans of the titans, yet they are on the Texans board, but what can you expect but retarded postings from them.

Texan_Bill
06-15-2007, 11:38 AM
This thread took a terrible turn ... :joker:

Now that your back, we can get it on track......

Just give me a minute to read Specnatz' posts.... I wont bother with that kids drivel..

Honoring Earl 34
06-15-2007, 11:51 AM
This thread took a terrible turn ... :joker:

This why I'm for year around schooling .

Blazing Arrow
06-15-2007, 11:57 AM
Pittbull is misunderstood. He is actually a really knowledgable football guy, pretty funny. I think his post was meant to bring life back to the thread and take a different angle on it.

If you look back at the post Pitbull was not the first one to throw a stone, he gave a perspective and Specnatz lashed back with:

It shows you know nothing about football or the Texans or Carr or watched any games and you only looked at the stat sheet. Nice job.

You swat a pitbull in the nose I would expect it to chomp back.

real
06-15-2007, 12:01 PM
You swat a pitbull in the nose I would expect it to chomp back.

Much like I'd expect one Titan to take up for another.

Your attempt to make it seem like pittbull wasn't talking smack is weak at best.

He is a fan of the Titans questioning Texans management. Yeah, I'm sure his concerns are legit.

Specnatz
06-15-2007, 12:02 PM
Pittbull is misunderstood. He is actually a really knowledgable football guy, pretty funny. I think his post was meant to bring life back to the thread and take a different angle on it.

If you look back at the post Pitbull was not the first one to throw a stone, he gave a perspective and Specnatz lashed back with:



You swat a pitbull in the nose I would expect it to chomp back.

Unless that pitbull has no teeth and has been nuetered

Honoring Earl 34
06-15-2007, 12:03 PM
He who cast the first bone .

Blazing Arrow
06-15-2007, 12:07 PM
Much like I'd expect one Titan to take up for another.

Your attempt to make it seem like pittbull wasn't talking smack is weak at best.

He is a fan of the Titans questioning Texans management. Yeah, I'm sure his concerns are legit.

Like I stuck up for UTVinceYoung :rolleyes:

Texan_Bill
06-15-2007, 12:14 PM
BA, I will give you the benefit of the doubt with pitbull, but really, we are tired of re-hashing the Carr thing. Bottom Line, is that it was time for the Texans (and Carr for that matter) to move on.. DC may make it back, but he was never going to do it here.

real
06-15-2007, 12:16 PM
Like I stuck up for UTVinceYoung :rolleyes:

My bad for not studying your post history. I don't even know who that is.

Double Barrel
06-15-2007, 12:22 PM
Pittbull is misunderstood. He is actually a really knowledgable football guy....

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight :ok:

I've always reserved a little bit of admiration for Carr and the way his game elevated over the five years as a starter while noting last years comp% as one of the highest in the league.

He is a fan of the Titans questioning Texans management.

I really don't know how any fan of a Bud Adams team can question another team's management.

The Texans are only five years old. Is there really that much sport in kicking a relatively new franchise that came into the league under the harshest of expansion deals?

Seriously, I envision Titans fans kicking the canes out from old folks, just because it makes them feel like the men they want to be in their heads.

real
06-15-2007, 12:39 PM
Seriously, I envision Titans fans kicking the canes out from old folks, just because it makes them feel like the men they want to be in their heads.

Pretty much.

I freely acknowledge that we've been on of the worst teams in the leauge since inception.

But if you are the fan of another team and feel the need to come to our site and talk smack, it doesn't say a whole lot positive about the state of your franchise.

Double Barrel
06-15-2007, 12:45 PM
I figure it'll all come crashing down when reality pops their bubble of delusion.

Texans fans, on the other hand, harbor no illusions about our team. Sure, we are hopeful, but for the most part, our expectations are based in a realistic outlook. Optimism for a winning season is nothing compared to the Grand Illusion of Super Bowl aspirations expected of The Great One. Anything less than a ring is failure in their eyes.

Blazing Arrow
06-15-2007, 01:03 PM
BA, I will give you the benefit of the doubt with pitbull, but really, we are tired of re-hashing the Carr thing. Bottom Line, is that it was time for the Texans (and Carr for that matter) to move on.. DC may make it back, but he was never going to do it here.

See if you had replied to him with something in this tone this thread would have completely changed.

And honestly if he had come on here with a huge post that went through some of the intangables would it have been met with anything less?

I ran this one before last season showing what a chump he is. Ran it on my board and the Jags board. Texans fans came out by the boat load to try to tear it down. One season later he is garbage. Kind of funny.

We all know about the trouble Tim Couch had in Cleveland. His first season he set a record for most sacks in a season. He only Qbed one winning season at 9-7 and the second best year being a 7-9 season. He has been in the league since 99 (5 years as a started) the year the Browns made there come back to the NFL. Touted as there savior and the future of the team, fans poured into NFL shops to buy his jersey. Set back after set back slowly sunk Couch into mediocrity. First it was the line that was giving him issues. Then he did not have the receiver core needed to make his passes. Slowly people realized that yes these played a factor but Tim Couch would never amount to anything, being at best a backup on a mid level team.

This made me think of the career of David Carr. His first season he set a record for most sacks in a season. Carr has never had a winning season, and his best season to date was ‘04 when he led the Texans to a 7-9 season. When drafted #1 the Texans felt they had a base to grow on. This guy could do something special in the NFL or that was the talk around the league. The fledgling Houston fans and disgruntled Oiler fans of years past rushed to buy his jersey. Carr has not pointed fingers but goes out day in and day out and plays. Analysts in the league pointed the fingers for him. First it was his O-line. Then a lack of depths at the WR position. Starting to sound familiar?

I will take this even further…..

In 60 games Carr has a QB rating of 73.7, a completion percentage of 57.8 and a TD to INT ratio of .91.

In 62 games Couch has a QB rating of 75.1, a completion percentage of 59.8 and a TD to INT ratio of .96

Both are close in yards per game at 179.5 for Couch to Carrs 177.1. They also have the same numbers when it comes to average yards per pass of 6.5.
Tim Couch sacked 166 times; Carr 208.

When will the Cow fans realize they drafted another Couch? With the number one pick last season and a RB coming off of knee surgery the draft would seem obvious with a phenom RB and 3 solid choices at QB to replace what ales them. Instead they choose to pick a DE? It would seem that the Texans are destined to follow in the steps of the Browns. When we do not remember history it is bound to repeat itself

Blazing Arrow
06-15-2007, 01:26 PM
The Texans are only five years old. Is there really that much sport in kicking a relatively new franchise that came into the league under the harshest of expansion deals?

Seriously, I envision Titans fans kicking the canes out from old folks, just because it makes them feel like the men they want to be in their heads.

You did not pull the wow is me card did you? Seriously? We are division rivals .... It is not as if anyone on here is just spouting:

Texans SUCK!!!!

If you live in homer land and listen to what is put up on your own board you would think your team is going to win the Super Bowl every season. To get a more realistic look it is always good to check out what the enemy thinks about you and what your weaknesses are.

real
06-15-2007, 01:31 PM
You did not pull the wow is me card did you? Seriously? We are division rivals .... It is not as if anyone on here is just spouting:

Texans SUCK!!!!

If you live in homer land and listen to what is put up on your own board you would think your team is going to win the Super Bowl every season. To get a more realistic look it is always good to check out what the enemy thinks about you and what your weaknesses are.


How can you give a realistic opinion about a team you watch twice a year ?

Blazing Arrow
06-15-2007, 01:36 PM
How can you give a realistic opinion about a team you watch twice a year ?

Honestly I will admit I watch about 6~8 Texans games a season. I also have Tivo and DTV. I like to keep up on division rivals. I do the same for the Jags and the Colts.

real
06-15-2007, 01:53 PM
Honestly I will admit I watch about 6~8 Texans games a season. I also have Tivo and DTV. I like to keep up on division rivals. I do the same for the Jags and the Colts.

So you feel like you'd have better insight than people who track them all year long?

We have enough fans that think the team isn't/ may not do that well this season...

Why on earth would we need to get that kind of insight from fans of other teams when we have people who follow the team more closely giving varying opinions ?

That'd be like me going to the Titans board and giving my opinion on the team and expecting people to take me serious....I would be shocked if they did....even though I watch about 5 or 6 Titans games a year...

Blazing Arrow
06-15-2007, 01:56 PM
So you feel like you'd have better insight than people who track them all year long?


Not at all but I also get sick of reading stuff like "Justin Gage is the next DMac" and calls to get Jmac back.

Double Barrel
06-15-2007, 02:05 PM
You did not pull the wow is me card did you? Seriously?

I am not a grammar/spelling nazi in any regard. But I just wanted to make sure you meant "woe is me" and not "wow". It kind of changes the point of your post.

I appreciate your football takes, because you do seem to keep within the X's & O's of analysis.

I just get tired of the constant nonsense of unknown proportions regarding Carr and Schaub, as well as the rest of the team. There is good reason why Schaub has always been a backup in ATL, and that reason is directly related to the owner of the Falcons and their marquee player. When football "fans" come here and try to spout nonsense about something they are ignorant about, the routine gets old.

Criticize or praise a player, coach or system all you want, but the blatant generalized statements born from a lack of knowledge receives very little respect. I'm not painting you with that brush, but you probably understand getting the baby thrown out with the bathwater when you're a rival fan on a team's board.

Texan_Bill
06-15-2007, 02:06 PM
See if you had replied to him with something in this tone this thread would have completely changed.
.

Actually, if you go back and read, I didn't say anything deragotory in my first 2 or 3 replies to him... It wasn't until I made the joke about Lendale "I never met a buffet I didn't like before" White when he got pissy.... It went downhill from there.

Blazing Arrow
06-15-2007, 02:13 PM
Yeah i guess I was generalizing because the post I quoted was the next post after PB. I am sure PB is over it and probably laughing it off by now.

ChildressTitanMan
06-15-2007, 02:15 PM
That'd be like me going to the Titans board and giving my opinion on the team and expecting people to take me serious....I would be shocked if they did....even though I watch about 5 or 6 Titans games a year...

Dude imagine how many 'VY is god I think I'll start watching football' noobs have turned up at GoTitans forum. Knowledgeable rival fans are always welcome,especially divisional rivals. Some morons will hate on you but not many.

Honestly I will admit I watch about 6~8 Texans games a season. I like to keep up on division rivals. I do the same for the Jags and the Colts.

I do the same for the Texans & Colts but the Jags I can't do it. Now there's a team in need of a QB but Del Rio can't seem to see it.Why I have no idea.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/pubrel/trojan_family/winter03/delrio_files/action_002.jpeghttp://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r5/Childress79/youngfrank20.jpg

Texan_Bill
06-15-2007, 02:18 PM
Dude imagine how many 'VY is god I think I'll start watching football' noobs have turned up at GoTitans forum. Knowledgeable rival fans are always welcome,especially divisional rivals. Some morons will hate on you but not many.



I do the same for the Texans & Colts but the Jags I can't do it. Now there's a team in need of a QB but Del Rio can't seem to see it.Why I have no idea.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/pubrel/trojan_family/winter03/delrio_files/action_002.jpeghttp://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r5/Childress79/youngfrank20.jpg

Props.... I can always appreciate someone working in a Young Frankenstein reference...

Texan_Bill
06-15-2007, 02:18 PM
Yeah i guess I was generalizing because the post I quoted was the next post after PB. I am sure PB is over it and probably laughing it off by now.

I'm sure he is too. No worries!!

Bipolar The Titan
06-15-2007, 02:29 PM
Confusion is expected by those who use stats as their 'guiding light'.

PitBull, does that remind you of anyone from goTitans?:worm:

PitBull
06-15-2007, 04:24 PM
right when i thought this thread was done it turns out to have just began..

What was that about anyway? comeon now, i've seen much warmer welcomes from almost every other rival board i've visited. Heck, many Texans seem to have a good time when they visit Titans boards.

I really do want to say that a rival visiting a rival board is almost guaranteed to face hostility however its not always that way. The hostility here did seem a bit odd. I'm not sure how a discussion about Schaub vs. Carr warranted such responses.. I'm looking back at the thread right now to try to figure it out yet i remain puzzled.

Nontheless its all good. I'm not one to cry over spilt milk.
I'm can also imagine that you're not too.

PitBull
06-15-2007, 04:25 PM
PitBull, does that remind you of anyone from goTitans?:worm:

lool... Rolltide?

powerfuldragon
06-15-2007, 04:27 PM
haha, i never noticed the similarity between del rio and marty feldman until now.

Honoring Earl 34
06-15-2007, 04:27 PM
You could put Carr in a thread about Mother Theresa and cause a fight .

Double Barrel
06-15-2007, 04:27 PM
I really do want to say that a rival visiting a rival board is almost guaranteed to face hostility however its not always that way. The hostility here did seem a bit odd. I'm not sure how a discussion about Schaub vs. Carr warranted such responses.. I'm looking back at the thread right now to try to figure it out yet i remain puzzled.

yeah, I can't imagine what could have sparked any negative feelings from Texans fans in this thread... :um:

http://images.sportinglife.com/07/03/330/MattSchaub_209601.jpg

Carr 2.0

PitBull
06-15-2007, 04:34 PM
yeah, I can't imagine what could have sparked any negative feelings from Texans fans in this thread... :um:

I was actually talking more about my posts..

Yet i really don't see how BIP's image would be looked at in anyway other than pure comedy and not taken to heart..
Relax Double Barrel.. i've seen worse images and graphics posted on our board by rivals which were accepted as comedy and left to rot on that same page.

Double Barrel
06-15-2007, 04:38 PM
I'm a pretty relaxed dude, so I take it all in stride. I was just pointing out a potential answer to your question, but did not realize you were only speaking about your posts.

As far as worse images on your board, that's what happens when you don't have any standards. :howdy:

PitBull
06-15-2007, 04:45 PM
As far as worse images on your board, that's what happens when you don't have any standards. :howdy:

If your interpretation of 'standards' is over-reacting with madness and hostility.. well thats a whole different case and an attitude i'm glad i don't have..

Yet I'm sure you didn't mean it like that... did you? :howdy:

Double Barrel
06-15-2007, 05:02 PM
If your interpretation of 'standards' is over-reacting with madness and hostility.. well thats a whole different case and an attitude i'm glad i don't have..

No, I'm sure that would never happen on a Titans board. :rolleyes:

Yet i really don't see how BIP's image would be looked at in anyway other than pure comedy and not taken to heart..

You severely underestimate the hostility and burnout that the Carr Wars has ingrained into Texans fans. :shades:

Specnatz
06-15-2007, 05:47 PM
Yet i really don't see how BIP's image would be looked at in anyway other than pure comedy and not taken to heart..

So if anyone post an image of vy and saying so easy a caveman could do it but with his wonderlic score vy couldn't, you would take that as pure comedy?

I do not believe that for one second and I doubt anyone else does either. If pitt had a long standing as blaze, it might have been looked at differently but his very first post, 99% of people are going to think he is a troll and he is just being an ass.

Overalls
06-15-2007, 06:41 PM
If pitt had a long standing as blaze, it might have been looked at differently but his very first post, 99% of people are going to think he is a troll and he is just being an ass.

Us Trolls are like that. Those of us that hang around tend to grow on you. I have been threatened with banishment on 3 Titans boards but have had long time posters that "get it" defend me.

real
06-15-2007, 06:44 PM
So if anyone post an image of vy and saying so easy a caveman could do it but with his wonderlic score vy couldn't, you would take that as pure comedy?

I do not believe that for one second and I doubt anyone else does either. If pitt had a long standing as blaze, it might have been looked at differently but his very first post, 99% of people are going to think he is a troll and he is just being an ass.

Totally unrelated to this thread, but did you come over from the ESPN boards ?

Blazing Arrow
06-15-2007, 07:09 PM
So if anyone post an image of vy and saying so easy a caveman could do it but with his wonderlic score vy couldn't, you would take that as pure comedy?


You mean something like ......

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u13/BlazingArrow24/shammy.jpg

That one was care of PB from a while ago.

aj.
06-15-2007, 07:17 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/aj_texans/0715177copy.jpg

Specnatz
06-15-2007, 09:41 PM
Totally unrelated to this thread, but did you come over from the ESPN boards ?

a while back because i did not know this was here or I should say the old houston texans board.

Double Barrel
06-16-2007, 01:09 AM
Funny picture, aj! :heh:

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u13/BlazingArrow24/shammy.jpg

This has to be one of the worst editing jobs that I've ever seen. Kinda' sad, really.

real
06-16-2007, 04:34 AM
a while back because i did not know this was here or I should say the old houston texans board.

Did you follow my spam ?

Blazing Arrow
06-16-2007, 09:44 AM
This has to be one of the worst editing jobs that I've ever seen. Kinda' sad, really.

Yeah but it gets a point across. :texflag:

Specnatz
06-16-2007, 10:40 AM
Did you follow my spam ?

Not sure whose spam I followed :user:

smitty46953
06-16-2007, 10:42 AM
You mean something like ......

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u13/BlazingArrow24/shammy.jpg

That one was care of PB from a while ago.

Schaub is going to wish he was back in Atlanta... Watching Vick is better than :gun:

HuttoKarl
06-16-2007, 11:06 AM
AFC South fans outside of Houston are going to wish Schaub (not Schwab, Schuab, shaub..etc...) was back in ATL too. They're not going to know what to do with a QB in a Texans uni who can actually read a defense and call an audible, two things Carr couldn't do to save his life.

Honoring Earl 34
06-16-2007, 12:25 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/aj_texans/0715177copy.jpg

Now that's just to funny . :whip:


ps Caddy will buy extra copies for 100$ each .

BattleRedToro
06-16-2007, 12:48 PM
All I want to say on the subject is, I'm tired of people ragging on the Texans for picking Mario Williams over Reggie Bush or Vince Young and stating that Mario's low sack number is indicative of him being a bust as if Reggie's low yards per carry average and Vince's QB rating were not also subpar. If people were honest about it all three of them performed well below players like Maurice Jones-Drew and DeMeco Ryans. In addition, Jones-Drew was robbed of the Offensive Rookie of the Year award.

It is plainly obvious to me that the NFL is trying to manufacture a new "cash cow" superstar in Vince Young. He in no way deserved to be the Offensive Rookie of the Year or play in the Pro Bowl even as an alternate. I'm sorry but all QB's are given too much credit when their teams win as well as too much blame when their teams lose, and his team's record was the justification used by his supporters for why he was given the Offensive Rookie of the Year award or deserved to be an alternate for the Pro Bowl. They couldn't use his statistics as a reason because like Mario and Reggie they were not satisfactory.

I can't wait until the NFL season starts. Then, we will see how Vince, Reggie and Mario perform. It is quite possible that Mario will outperform the rest of the Class of 2006 in their second season, then what will the naysayers have to say.

infantrycak
06-16-2007, 12:49 PM
Funny coincidence with the hair cut deal is Vick swore he wouldn't cut his hair until the Falcons won the SB. He just gave up and had it cut a few weeks ago.

Double Barrel
06-16-2007, 01:25 PM
Yeah but it gets a point across. :texflag:

What point? That Titans fan can't use Photoshop?

It's funny in a way that we get a new QB, and you expect the same old thing. It indicates that you either don't know as much about football as you think, or, you do not comprehend critical analysis of our previous QB (which means that you don't know as much about football as you think). I'm not sure which since I don't know you that well...yet.

BattleRedToro
06-16-2007, 01:35 PM
What point? That Titans fan can't use Photoshop?

It's funny in a way that we get a new QB, and you expect the same old thing. It indicates that you either don't know as much about football as you think, or, you do not comprehend critical analysis of our previous QB (which means that you don't know as much about football as you think). I'm not sure which since I don't know you that well...yet.

It could mean that he believes that the QB change is irrelevant because the pass protection provided by the Offensive Line is too bad to be able to notice the differences in the QB's

Bipolar The Titan
06-16-2007, 02:05 PM
Or maybe Schwab is so unproven it is ridiculous to expect anything.

2 starts?
161 career pass attempts?
84 career completions for a 52.2% completion percentage and 69.2 passer rating?

I'll admit that 1033 passing yards with 6 touchdowns, even paired with 6 interceptions is impressive on some level. I like his stat line against the Patriots during the 2005 season. Nearly 300 yards passing with a 112.1 passer rating. He was sacked 3 times in that loss. He hasn't started continually and when he has he hasn't won. He's showed some grit and put up some numbers, but this isn't nearly enough to categorize it as a seasoned vet who steps in and turns things around.

Honoring Earl 34
06-16-2007, 02:12 PM
Matt Schaub came out and said the strength of the offense is the OL . I don't know if he believes it but he scored points . If anything he's smart . You know he read some of Carolina Carrs statements and is covering for his guys .

I think the OL got better the day Carr left . If anything ... like the fans ... they have a renewed since of hope . Schaub seems to have what Carr lacked and a big arm is'nt as important as a big mind .

What can the Titans fans say anyway ... they had a terrible offseason . Oh by the way you better hope Bud's not going back to his old self and going cheap . He may think that VY is all you need to sell tickets .

Honoring Earl 34
06-16-2007, 02:15 PM
Or maybe Schwab is so unproven it is ridiculous to expect anything.


Every great player took an unproven step . I think he's less of a risk than Brady Quinn would be . He's been in the NFL 3 years and has run the WCO for 6 years ... hmmmm ... he'll be up and running by training camp , full playbook and all .

Blazing Arrow
06-16-2007, 03:05 PM
What point? That Titans fan can't use Photoshop?

It's funny in a way that we get a new QB, and you expect the same old thing. It indicates that you either don't know as much about football as you think, or, you do not comprehend critical analysis of our previous QB (which means that you don't know as much about football as you think). I'm not sure which since I don't know you that well...yet.


Is that all you got? You use that on pittbull you use that on me. The fact is you have a slower less mobile QB behind an O-line that collapses on a regular basis. Shammy had a decent line in Atlanta that kept active. How is he going to handle pressure on every play? How is it going to be in those 3rd and long sets? There is not much game film on Shammy but there is plenty on the Texans O-line.

BattleRedToro
06-16-2007, 03:28 PM
There is not much game film on Shammy but there is plenty on the Texans O-line.

Yes there is plenty of film on the Texans O-Line, and unbiased eyes can see the repeated multiple simultaneous breakdowns in pass protection against the most basic pass rushes and equate that to mean the Offensive Line needs improvement. Biased eyes look at that and say the QB sucks.

real
06-16-2007, 03:35 PM
Is that all you got? You use that on pittbull you use that on me. The fact is you have a slower less mobile QB behind an O-line that collapses on a regular basis. Shammy had a decent line in Atlanta that kept active. How is he going to handle pressure on every play? How is it going to be in those 3rd and long sets? There is not much game film on Shammy but there is plenty on the Texans O-line.

Ignorance is bliss.


LOL @ you for thinking speed and mobility is what causes less sacks.
You are the type of fan that feeds too much into the ESPN hype and doesn't have a clue about how an offense work. I really don't care what your response is to that, because after this ignorant post, I'm convinced. Not much game film on Schaub, but plenty on our O-line....Yeah sure...I really don't understand the point of saying that though, because it's not like you have studied any of it, and if you did, it's overly obvious that you wouldn't even know what to look for...So as of right now, you're going on here say and using it as your own argument...which is borderline plagiarism....and that's...well....sad

Someone told me you were a knowledgeable possum hollar dweller...I no longer believe that after reading this post. Good luck to you all in your season...seriously...I'm a VY fan.....But don't feel to bad about feeling the need to keep looking over your shoulder at the lowly Texans, with the terrible O-line, and unproven QB....LOL

Specnatz
06-16-2007, 03:39 PM
Is that all you got? You use that on pittbull you use that on me. The fact is you have a slower less mobile QB behind an O-line that collapses on a regular basis. Shammy had a decent line in Atlanta that kept active. How is he going to handle pressure on every play? How is it going to be in those 3rd and long sets? There is not much game film on Shammy but there is plenty on the Texans O-line.

Yep slower QBs equal more sacks

Sincerely,

Peyton Manning


Yeah there is not much film on Schaub, about as much as of vy throwing an accurate pass.

real
06-16-2007, 03:39 PM
Yes there is plenty of film on the Texans O-Line, and unbiased eyes can see the repeated multiple simultaneous breakdowns in pass protection against the most basic pass rushes and equate that to mean the Offensive Line needs improvement. Biased eyes look at that and say the QB sucks.

What does seeing the line break down have to do with the ability to judge a QB ?

It's not an either or thing...David Carr was terrible, and the line could use improvement....

Sounds like the eyes in your own head are the only ones biased...

Like because the line was bad, that means ultimately the QB was good ?

Gotcha....

Il_Bruno
06-16-2007, 03:46 PM
while speed an quickness is an asset in avoiding the rush, the main thing is having good pocket prescence. If you can "feel" the rush, then you dont need a fast 40 to be able to avoid it, like when spec brought up manning. He does have a much better line but even they break down fairly frequently, but when they do Manning has good enough prescence to step up or to the side of the rush.


The thing about david was, even though he was a good athelete when you look at the measurables, he could never "feel" the rush until it was busy smearing him into the turf :whip:


Made a bad line look even worse imo

Blazing Arrow
06-16-2007, 03:46 PM
Yep slower QBs equal more sacks

Sincerely,

Peyton Manning


Yeah there is not much film on Schaub, about as much as of vy throwing an accurate pass.

No but slower QB + O-line that could not protect a faster more mobile QB does.

The Dream
06-16-2007, 03:48 PM
I'm going to see Vince on the 21st of October...will you be there?

real
06-16-2007, 03:49 PM
No but slower QB + O-line that could not protect a faster more mobile QB does.

Wrong again.

BattleRedToro
06-16-2007, 03:50 PM
What does seeing the line break down have to do with the ability to judge a QB ?

It's not an either or thing...David Carr was terrible, and the line could use improvement....

Sounds like the eyes in your own head are the only ones biased...

Like because the line was bad, that means ultimately the QB was good ?

Gotcha....

Wrong. What I am saying is people who are biased see what they want to see, and when I see an Offensive Line repeatedly breakdown on the simplest of pass rush defenses I don't say that the QB is terrible as you and many others on here have said. I also don't say that the QB is therefore good. It isn't either or. It is inconclusive as far as the Qb is concerned because the O-Line is so bad it compromises any ability to reasonably judge the QB.

ReliantTexan
06-16-2007, 03:52 PM
Is that all you got? You use that on pittbull you use that on me. The fact is you have a slower less mobile QB behind an O-line that collapses on a regular basis. Shammy had a decent line in Atlanta that kept active. How is he going to handle pressure on every play? How is it going to be in those 3rd and long sets? There is not much game film on Shammy but there is plenty on the Texans O-line.It depends on what type of mobility you mean,if you're talking about speed and athleticism then yes I'd say Carr,but if you're talking about avoiding pressure in the pocket and being more aware of you surroundings then I'd say Schaub. Your being courteous when you say that Atlanta's line is decent.And there's not alot of film on our Oline,most of the line that gave up all those sacks through thre years is gone and we lost three starters due to injury last season.So this group has never really played a full season together.

real
06-16-2007, 03:55 PM
Wrong. What I am saying is people who are biased see what they want to see, and when I see an Offensive Line repeatedly breakdown on the simplest of pass rush defenses I don't say that the QB is terrible as you and many others on here have said. I also don't say that the QB is therefore good. It isn't either or. It is inconclusive as far as the Qb is concerned because the O-Line is so bad it compromises any ability to reasonably judge the QB.

Another ignorant post.

There is a such thing called 'analysis'.

I guess Kubiak and crew were were biased as well for getting rid of David Carr, and basically keeping the same exact line. Gotcha....

If someone can watch film and come to conclusions based on their knowledge or past experiences it doesn't make them biased.

Calling someone biased because they have come to an educated conclusion is biased...and a bit ignorant....

real
06-16-2007, 03:59 PM
It depends on what type of mobility you mean,if you mean making a big play with your feet then yes I'd say Carr.

What was Carr's longest run here ? Carr had good speed, but he wasn't a good runner IMO.


but if you're talking about avoiding pressure in the pocket and being more aware of you surroundings then I'd say Schaub. Your being courteous when you say that Atlanta's line is decent.And there's not alot of film on our Oline,most of the line that gave up all those sacks through thre years is gone and we lost three starters due to injury last season.So this group has never really played a full season together


I didn't even address that, but it further shows his lack of knowledge...

Michael Vick, in ATL, has been one of the most sacked QB's since he's gotten in the leauge...This from the fastest most mobile QB in the NFL, and behind ATL's 'good line'...

BattleRedToro
06-16-2007, 03:59 PM
while speed an quickness is an asset in avoiding the rush, the main thing is having good pocket prescence. If you can "feel" the rush, then you dont need a fast 40 to be able to avoid it, like when spec brought up manning. He does have a much better line but even they break down fairly frequently, but when they do Manning has good enough prescence to step up or to the side of the rush.


The thing about david was, even though he was a good athelete when you look at the measurables, he could never "feel" the rush until it was busy smearing him into the turf :whip:


Made a bad line look even worse imo

It is true that even the Colts O-line breaks down but there is a difference as well. They rarely breakdown against simple pass rushes so that means the defense is overloading a side or blitzing and usually Manning will pick up on the development of those things before the snap. The end result is a quick out to an open receiver and the chains keep moving. Another difference is the Colts line also rarely has simultaneous multiple breakdowns. In otherwords it is usually limited to just one of the O-Linemen missing a block. When that happens a QB can sidestep or move in the pocket to avoid the rusher while the HB or FB picks him up. On the other hand the Texans O-line would often have more then one O-linemen missing their blocks at the same time with nowhere for the QB to go and to make matters worse it was froma simple 3 or 4 man rush so the defense also has plenty of defenders left to cover the receivers so there isn't anyone open for a quick out.

BattleRedToro
06-16-2007, 04:03 PM
Another ignorant post.

There is a such thing called 'analysis'.

I guess Kubiak and crew were were biased as well for getting rid of David Carr, and basically keeping the same exact line. Gotcha....

If someone can watch film and come to conclusions based on their knowledge or past experiences it doesn't make them biased.

Calling someone biased because they have come to an educated conclusion is biased...and a bit ignorant....

I love how when you disagree with someone's post you call them names such as ignorant. Rather then really debating them. You can say it is a case of the pot calling the kettle black if you want, but I didn't call you ignorant at worst I implied that you were biased, which is quite obvious to anyone with a brain.

Also, you are assuming that Kubiak was behind the offseason moves. I make no such assumption. I don't know who's decision it was.

real
06-16-2007, 04:03 PM
It is true that even the Colts O-line breaks down but there is a difference as well. They rarely breakdown against simple pass rushes so that means the defense is overloading a side or blitzing and usually Manning will pick up on the development of those things before the snap. The end result is a quick out to an open receiver and the chains keep moving. Another difference is the Colts line also rarely has simultaneous multiple breakdowns. In otherwords it is usually limited to just one of the O-Linemen missing a block. When that happens a QB can sidestep or move in the pocket to avoid the rusher while the HB or FB picks him up. On the other hand the Texans O-line would often have more then one O-linemen missing their blocks at the same time with nowhere for the QB to go and to make matters worse it was froma simple 3 or 4 man rush so the defense also has plenty of defenders left to cover the receivers so there isn't anyone open for a quick out.

LMAO....

I'm done with you guys...

You're making stuff up now to fit your argument...LMAO...

Il_Bruno
06-16-2007, 04:04 PM
It is true that even the Colts O-line breaks down but there is a difference as well. They rarely breakdown against simple pass rushes so that means the defense is overloading a side or blitzing and usually Manning will pick up on the development of those things before the snap. The end result is a quick out to an open receiver and the chains keep moving. Another difference is the Colts line also rarely has simultaneous multiple breakdowns. In otherwords it is usually limited to just one of the O-Linemen missing a block. When that happens a QB can sidestep or move in the pocket to avoid the rusher while the HB or FB picks him up. On the other hand the Texans O-line would often have more then one O-linemen missing their blocks at the same time with nowhere for the QB to go and to make matters worse it was froma simple 3 or 4 man rush so the defense also has plenty of defenders left to cover the receivers so there isn't anyone open for a quick out.

but a lot of the time carr would just run into the DE, hence he earned the name "the self-sacking qb".

His internal rythem was destroyed early on and is at this point unsalvagable, at least here in houston. We also have a pass blocking RB in Green for the first time ever in our franchise history, so that should help significantly (is Vonta Leech good at pass blocking? if he is then thats another back for protection purposes).

The line is average at best, but if we have a QB who tries to avoid the rush other then running into it then the passing game has a chance. maybe ive just been drinking the kool-aid though :texflag:

ReliantTexan
06-16-2007, 04:05 PM
What was Carr's longest run here ? Carr had good speed, but he wasn't a good runner IMO.



I just edited it before you posted.You couldn't just wait one minute before you replied.Lol.

real
06-16-2007, 04:06 PM
I love how when you disagree with someone's post you call them names such as ignorant. Rather then really debating them. You can say it is a case of the pot calling the kettle black if you want, but I didn't call you ignorant at worst I implied that you were biased, which is quite obvious to anyone with a brain.


Actually I didn't call you anything...

I said your post was ignorant, which it was....

Don't know you well enough to know if you're an ignorant person...But I can read and determine whether or not what I'm reading is silly, a lie, or ignorant....You can go back and read if you'd like...

real
06-16-2007, 04:09 PM
I just edited it before you posted.You couldn't just wait one minute before you replied.Lol.

My bad...Guess I was too quick on the trigger...:cowboy1:

BattleRedToro
06-16-2007, 04:10 PM
but a lot of the time carr would just run into the DE, hence he earned the name "the self-sacking qb".

His internal rythem was destroyed early on and is at this point unsalvagable, at least here in houston. We also have a pass blocking RB in Green for the first time ever in our franchise history, so that should help significantly (is Vonta Leech good at pass blocking? if he is then thats another back for protection purposes).

The line is average at best, but if we have a QB who tries to avoid the rush other then running into it then the passing game has a chance. maybe ive just been drinking the kool-aid though :texflag:

Ask any knowledgable football fan to watch film of the Texans O-line and they will tell you that the Texans O-line is far below average.

Il_Bruno
06-16-2007, 04:14 PM
Ask any knowledgable football fan to watch film of the Texans O-line and they will tell you that the Texans O-line is far below average.


Is that more a product of the knowledgable football fan watching enough games of the texans to get that opinion, or from that "texans o-line is the worst" line being shoved in their face time and again?

The line is average at best, probably more the in 20s though, but i think we will actually see a decrease in sack totals despite the lack of speed at QB

BattleRedToro
06-16-2007, 04:18 PM
LMAO....

I'm done with you guys...

You're making stuff up now to fit your argument...LMAO...

I didn't make up anything. Watch the end of this link (http://www.nfl.com/video/2006/32) when Marshall Faulk does his analysis for evidence. Sorry, link doesn't automatically load the clip you will have to click on the State of the Franchise: Houston Texans.

BattleRedToro
06-16-2007, 04:22 PM
Is that more a product of the knowledgable football fan watching enough games of the texans to get that opinion, or from that "texans o-line is the worst" line being shoved in their face time and again?

The line is average at best, probably more the in 20s though, but i think we will actually see a decrease in sack totals despite the lack of speed at QB

I meant they will arrive at the conclusion that the Texans O-line is bad on their own if they watch the film.

Specnatz
06-16-2007, 04:23 PM
No but slower QB + O-line that could not protect a faster more mobile QB does.

Yes Carr is faster and more mobile than some QBs including Schaub and Peyton but that does not mean he knows what to do with it. Now I am not comparing Schaub to anyone but for examble .... Joe Montana was not very moblie but he was elusive, he knew when to step-up in the pocket and throw the ball and get it to a WR, RB or a TE. When Carr scrambled he would on more occassions than not run out of bounds behind the line of scrimmage and that constitues a sack. When you fumble the ball and fall on it, it is counted as a sack. Inwco you have a window, especially on slant patterens where you have to get the ball out quickly and in perfect timing, since you say you watch about 6 games a year, how good was he at doing that or checking down to the next option?

Your arguments and trying to bad mouth the line with any real information is not holding water. Just like espin .. Nice draft but they did not draft an OL with the 10th pick, forget there was none available without a huge reach. Schelareth (sp) actually said the texans did not draft a lineman. This coming from a 10th round draft pick. You are not making strong arguements what so ever, like you said to DB, your repeating yourself, but you are not actually saying anything of real substance.

Honoring Earl 34
06-16-2007, 04:28 PM
I meant they will arrive at the conclusion that the Texans O-line is bad on their own if they watch the film.

Bad OL + Bad QB = Bad Offense .

BattleRedToro
06-16-2007, 04:29 PM
I didn't make up anything. Watch the end of this link (http://www.nfl.com/video/2006/32) when Marshall Faulk does his analysis for evidence.


Sorry, link doesn't automatically load the clip you will have to click on the State of the Franchise: Houston Texans.

real
06-16-2007, 04:33 PM
I didn't make up anything. Watch the end of this link (http://www.nfl.com/video/2006/32) when Marshall Faulk does his analysis for evidence.

Link didn't work for me, but I think I saw what you're talking about on NFL network.


That's not analysis. I could select plays from every team in the NFL and find one that shows two or more bust by the O-linemen, just like I can find plays where the whole O-line executed perfectly...That really doesn't say much other than you went out and selected the plays you wanted to use in order to prove your point... Marshall Faulk IMO, leaves a lot to be desired with his football analysis, but that is JMO...but he's new to it...I expect he'll get better over time...

Honoring Earl 34
06-16-2007, 04:38 PM
Link didn't work for me, but I think I saw what you're talking about on NFL network.


That's not analysis. I could select plays from every team in the NFL and find one that shows two or more bust by the O-linemen, just like I can find plays where the whole O-line executed perfectly...That really doesn't say much other than you went out and selected the plays you wanted to use in order to prove your point... Marshall Faulk IMO, leaves a lot to be desired with his football analysis, but that is JMO...but he's new to it...I expect he'll get better over time...

These are things that I found interesting .

Texans draft Dave Ragone in 03 .

The Texans acted like it did'nt matter in year 2005 who was on the OL ... Victor Riley anyone .

The backups have a higher winnig % .

This reminded me of little league when Timmy gets to pitch no matter how bad he was . That's also how the team responded ... until Dunta said his piece that is .

BattleRedToro
06-16-2007, 04:41 PM
Bad OL + Bad QB = Bad Offense .

True enough, but I would argue that a Bad OL + Good QB = Bad Offense, because the Offensive Line play is primary while a QB's play is secondary when determining the effectiveness of an Offense.

BTW, I am not stating that the Texans had a Good QB only that a Bad OL hides one's ability to determine whether or not the QB is Good or Bad.

As for the Texans getting rid of David Carr being used as an example that he was the problem, hasn't anyone heard of personnel moves being made for business reasons. In otherwords, it is quite possible that Carr was replaced to appease the fans to avoid losing revenue. It wouldn't be the first time that a professional sports franchise made such a move.

Honoring Earl 34
06-16-2007, 04:43 PM
True enough, but I would argue that a Bad OL + Good QB = Bad Offense, because the Offensive Line play is primary while a QB's play is secondary when determining the effectiveness of an Offense.

BTW, I am not stating that the Texans had a Good QB only that a Bad OL hides one's ability to determine whether or not the QB is Good or Bad.

As for the Texans getting rid of David Carr being used as an example that he was the problem, hasn't anyone heard of personnel moves being made for business reasons. In otherwords, it is quite possible that Carr was replaced to appease the fans to avoid losing revenue. It wouldn't be the first time that a professional sports franchise made such a move.

If I had a choice between a really good OL and a really good QB . I'd think of the Hogs and 3 super bowls with 3 different QBs .

BattleRedToro
06-16-2007, 04:47 PM
Link didn't work for me, but I think I saw what you're talking about on NFL network.


That's not analysis. I could select plays from every team in the NFL and find one that shows two or more bust by the O-linemen, just like I can find plays where the whole O-line executed perfectly...That really doesn't say much other than you went out and selected the plays you wanted to use in order to prove your point... Marshall Faulk IMO, leaves a lot to be desired with his football analysis, but that is JMO...but he's new to it...I expect he'll get better over time...

Yes that was analysis. It may not have been complete or anything that you agree with but it most certainly was analysis. Now as for me selecting plays, I don't have the ability to show you every breakdown by the Texans O-line. I wish I did, but I don't. I do however watch every one of their games and have seen with my own eyes similar plays as those shown in the video happening over and over and over. I am not saying that David Carr is perfect, far from it. I'm not even saying he is good. I am merely saying that the O-Line is bad and because of this I am unable to make a fair judgement of David Carr and for posting such as this my posts have been derided by you as ignorant.

BattleRedToro
06-16-2007, 04:48 PM
If I had a choice between a really good OL and a really good QB . I'd think of the Hogs and 3 super bowls with 3 different QBs .

I would have to say that the Hogs were possibly the greatest O-Line ever, so really good is a little bit of an understatement.

Honoring Earl 34
06-16-2007, 04:51 PM
Just to ease the tension .

http://www.bangcartoon.com/2007/postdraft.htm

BattleRedToro
06-16-2007, 05:03 PM
Another link (http://www.nfl.com/video/2006/35). This one to Jim Mora's opinion of David Carr. You will have to click on, A look at quarterbacks at minicamps on NFLTA, to watch the clip.

aj.
06-16-2007, 05:56 PM
Another link (http://www.nfl.com/video/2006/35). This one to Jim Mora's opinion of David Carr. You will have to click on, A look at quarterbacks at minicamps on NFLTA, to watch the clip.

Lol... What's next, are you going to pull the Steve Mariuchi comments on Carr too?

I saw the Mora piece when they ran it a month or so ago. Mora citing David's completion percentage of all things as rationale for why he will be the starter "sooner rather than later" in Carolina puts him right there with Mooch in terms of clueless 'analysis.' If you can find that clip, that one's even funnier -- same basic citation with Mooch going off on how the Texans could be so stupid let a QB go who led the league in completion percentage ... or something very close to that effect. I wonder if Mora has ever watched a Texans game. It was obvious that Mooch hadn't.

BattleRedToro
06-16-2007, 06:25 PM
Lol... What's next, are you going to pull the Steve Mariuchi comments on Carr too?

I saw the Mora piece when they ran it a month or so ago. Mora citing David's completion percentage of all things as rationale for why he will be the starter "sooner rather than later" in Carolina puts him right there with Mooch in terms of clueless 'analysis.' If you can find that clip, that one's even funnier -- same basic citation with Mooch going off on how the Texans could be so stupid let a QB go who led the league in completion percentage ... or something very close to that effect. I wonder if Mora has ever watched a Texans game. It was obvious that Mooch hadn't.

I don't know if Mora did watch any Texans games but he did say that the Texans were a bad team and he should know about bad teams considering how many bad teams he has coached.

BTW, I haven't seen the Mariuchi clip.

aj.
06-16-2007, 06:36 PM
I don't know if Mora did watch any Texans games but he did say that the Texans were a bad team ....

Now that's some compelling commentary there. I may need to listen to him more.

ReliantTexan
06-16-2007, 06:42 PM
I don't know if Mora did watch any Texans games but he did say that the Texans were a bad team and he should know about bad teams considering how many bad teams he has coached.

BTW, I haven't seen the Mariuchi clip.I don't put much into what Mora thinks about our team judging by the fact that he thinks David is agood because of his completion %.Not that he doesn't know football,just that i know he didn't watch any games of ours last year.

BattleRedToro
06-16-2007, 06:46 PM
I don't put much into what Mora thinks about our team judging by the fact that he thinks David is agood because of his completion %.Not that he doesn't know football,just that i know he didn't watch any games of ours last year.

How do you know that he didn't watch any of the Texans's games from last year?

BattleRedToro
06-16-2007, 06:50 PM
Now that's some compelling commentary there. I may need to listen to him more.

My point was that unless someone in the press asks Jim Mora if he actually watched any of the Texans's games from last year then nobody knows if he did or not. I wrote it in response to the insinuation that Mora had not watched any of the Texan's games from last year.

ReliantTexan
06-16-2007, 06:50 PM
How do you know that he didn't watch any of the Texans's games from last year? Because he judges Carr by his completion %. Which if he actually watched games he would see that the majority(and by that I about 97%)of his passes were dump-offs and outlet passes.

BattleRedToro
06-16-2007, 07:02 PM
Because he judges Carr by his completion %. Which if he actually watched games he would see that the majority(and by that I about 97%)of his passes were dump-offs and outlet passes.

That doesn't mean he didn't watch any of the Texans's games. You assume that he didn't watch any of the Texan's games because of his analysis, but it doesn't prove anything regarding whether or not he watched the games.

aj.
06-16-2007, 07:08 PM
That doesn't mean he didn't watch any of the Texans's games. .

If I was making a case for Carr, about the last thing I'd do is cite his completion percentage from last year. That's a bit of a dead giveaway that he doesn't have a good platform to speak from on the Texans - aside from they were a bad team which any pre-K can conclude. The completion percentage argument is even more lame than blaming everything on the offensive line.

BattleRedToro
06-16-2007, 07:24 PM
That's your opinion and you are entitiled to it, just as Jim Mora is entitiled to his opinion based on whatever he wants to use as evidence, regardless of what you think about it.

aj.
06-16-2007, 07:47 PM
That's your opinion and you are entitiled to it....

That's good to know.

At least it's an informed opinion -- not sure about Mora's.

I respect Mora, but the completion percentage argument is so 'out there' that it taints the rest of his commentary on that particular point.

Honoring Earl 34
06-16-2007, 07:57 PM
I think if you've watched or played football ... you can come up with your own conclusions . Do you really need someone to tell you everything or is it you're trying to find an expert to agree with you .

There have been posters here who have questioned Carr since at least Jan. 2005 ... that's when I joined . In my opinion they were spot on , he had some fatal flaws in his game .

To say Schaub will suffer the same fate is just to easy ... it's like well my last tire had a flat because I drove it over some rocks so I know my new tire will have a flat to . Maybe we have a better tire .

Double Barrel
06-16-2007, 08:00 PM
Or maybe Schwab is so unproven it is ridiculous to expect anything.

So was Vince Young last year this time, but plenty of people saw potential for greatness, including many Texans fans.

You're just trying to tell me there's a double-standard with that line.

It could mean that he believes that the QB change is irrelevant because the pass protection provided by the Offensive Line is too bad to be able to notice the differences in the QB's

Three of our linemen are still here from the 2002 team, through two different regimes at that. The QB is gone, though....hmmmmm...

Is that all you got? You use that on pittbull you use that on me. The fact is you have a slower less mobile QB behind an O-line that collapses on a regular basis. Shammy had a decent line in Atlanta that kept active. How is he going to handle pressure on every play? How is it going to be in those 3rd and long sets? There is not much game film on Shammy but there is plenty on the Texans O-line.

You brag of a superior education, admit that our previous QB was far below average, say that you are just here to talk football and not troll....yet you profess very little knowledge about the Texans and seem to have only trash to talk 99% of the time. You sound more like a sheep bleeting out the ESPiN nonsense. One 'expert' says something, so they all have to herd together.

Welcome to the flock. http://www.webforumz.com/images/smilies/icon-sheep.gif


:chicken:

ChildressTitanMan
06-16-2007, 08:01 PM
If I was making a case for Carr, about the last thing I'd do is cite his completion percentage from last year. That's a bit of a dead giveaway that he doesn't have a good platform to speak from on the Texans - aside from they were a bad team which any pre-K can conclude. The completion percentage argument is even more lame than blaming everything on the offensive line.

Not so fast aj.

Good coaching works around a weakness & all those short passes last year worked well to manage a few issues with both Carr & the line. Expect to see plenty more of them this year too.

There's possibly 3 new guys on your O line who will take time to gell, along with Schaub being eased into the role.

Schaub should not be gun shy from too many sacks but I'll be shocked if he's cut loose straight away & chance being thrown to the wolves. I still expect Kubiak to start out conservatively with Schaub uintil he knows what he has to work with.

infantrycak
06-16-2007, 08:04 PM
That's your opinion and you are entitiled to it, just as Jim Mora is entitiled to his opinion based on whatever he wants to use as evidence, regardless of what you think about it.

Mora is entitled to his opinion, but it is safe to say he hasn't watched 50 Texans games in person and 50 on TV as aj, I and many others around here (maybe including you) have.

1569 of 2767 yds passing was yards after catch for Carr on 302 completions. That means on average Carr passed for 4 yards and then the WR's made 5 afterward. Using the completion % argument under those circumstances is beyond silly and demonstrates Mora did no more than look at the 1st page of NFL.com's stats for Carr.

There's possibly 3 new guys on your O line who will take time to gell, along with Schaub being eased into the role.

Wow, you have some inside scoop that hasn't been released because odds are no one is going to start on the OL to begin the season who has not started there before. At most one, if Spencer cannot come back and Black beats Salaam out.

BattleRedToro
06-16-2007, 08:09 PM
Three of our linemen are still here from the 2002 team, through two different regimes at that. The QB is gone, though....hmmmmm...

I already aswered that presumption.

As for the Texans getting rid of David Carr being used as an example that he was the problem, hasn't anyone heard of personnel moves being made for business reasons. In otherwords, it is quite possible that Carr was replaced to appease the fans to avoid losing revenue. It wouldn't be the first time that a professional sports franchise made such a move.

aj.
06-16-2007, 08:11 PM
Mora is entitled to his opinion, but it is safe to say he hasn't watched 50 Texans games in person and 50 on TV as aj, I and many others around here (maybe including you) have.


80 ...... oh, sorry you said in person.... and you were including preseason I guess.... so that would be 50 home and 6 away....56.



Good coaching works around a weakness & all those short passes last year worked well to manage a few issues with both Carr & the line. Expect to see plenty more of them this year too.



Yeah, a few issues. Lol...

I think I know what to expect this year. Thanks.
There's possibly 3 new guys on your O line who will take time to gell,

Huh?

ChildressTitanMan
06-16-2007, 08:16 PM
Wow, you have some inside scoop that hasn't been released because odds are no one is going to start on the OL to begin the season who has not started there before. At most one, if Spencer cannot come back and Black beats Salaam out.

O'reilly?

So I try & put a positive spin on the fresh meat you brought in but you admit the line will still be a problem.:tiptoe:

BattleRedToro
06-16-2007, 08:20 PM
Mora is entitled to his opinion, but it is safe to say he hasn't watched 50 Texans games in person and 50 on TV as aj, I and many others around here (maybe including you).

1569 of 2767 yds passing was yards after catch for Carr on 302 completions. That means on average Carr passed for 4 yards and then the WR's made 5 afterward. Using the completion % argument under those circumstances is beyond silly and demonstrates Mora did no more than look at the 1st page of NFL.com's stats for Carr.

Yes, I did watch everyone of those games; although, mostly on TV as I am a fan, but not a season ticket holder. Regardless of what the yards per completion average was they were still completions, and I went to the game against the Redskins last year and saw a long completion Carr threw to Andre with my own eyes so I am sick of people telling me he never throws deep, like it was his choice. Unlike some of the people on here that don't know a bad O-Line when they see one, I do. When your Offensive Coordinator has to resort to having your QB only take 3 step drops and dump it off immediately because the Offenssive Line can't provide pass protection for your QB long enough to allow deep passing paterns, it isn't the QB's fault. We are going to get to see how different things are this year possibily for both the Texans and Carr. If the line improves for the Texans that is great, but I'm not holding my breath, and if Carr gets a chance to play behind Carolina's already decent line and plays well I guess that should put to rest some of the erroneous accusations about his inabilities.

ChildressTitanMan
06-16-2007, 08:22 PM
80 ...... oh, sorry you said in person.... and you were including preseason I guess.... so that would be 50 home and 6 away....56.



Yeah, a few issues. Lol...

I think I know what to expect this year. Thanks.


Huh?

Black, Frye & Studdard. :sarcasm:

infantrycak
06-16-2007, 08:29 PM
Regardless of what the yards per completion average was they were still completions

Except regardless doesn't apply. I'd rather have a QB completing 60% of his passes for 8 yds in the air than one completing 68% of his passes for 4 yds in the air--it matters.

and I went to the game against the Redskins last year and saw a long completion Carr threw to Andre with my own eyes so I am sick of people telling me he never throws deep

And if you were familiar with my posting history, I have frequently corrected unwarranted attacks on Carr, but at the same time I see the problems as well. Yes Carr has thrown deep but frankly, he did it much better early in his career rather than lately.

BattleRedToro
06-16-2007, 08:35 PM
Except regardless doesn't apply. I'd rather have a QB completing 60% of his passes for 8 yds in the air than one completing 68% of his passes for 4 yds in the air--it matters.



And if you were familiar with my posting history, I have frequently corrected unwarranted attacks on Carr, but at the same time I see the problems as well. Yes Carr has thrown deep but frankly, he did it much better early in his career rather than lately.

Yes and the reasons his ypc avg went down can be directly attributed to the lack of passing protection provided by the O-Line. You see low ypc avg is the symptom and bad O-line play is the disease. The way I see it is that many who post here are misdiagnosing the disease with its symptoms.

BattleRedToro
06-16-2007, 08:54 PM
The reason for the lack of knowledge of the fundamentals of football by the casual fan of the NFL is the way in which it is marketed. The NFL is a business and as such they market the so-called playmakers: QB, RB, and WR, far more then Offensive Linemen so that they can sell more merchandise and that is fine, but the only problem is it generates a fanbase that is fairly ignorant of why a team is truly succesful or not. Although the style of play today is very different than it was when the NFL started the fundamental reason for success or failure hasn't changed. It still remains a battle of lineplay. The teams that win consistently have good lineplay and the ones that lose don't have good lineplay. It is just that simple. I don't care what statistics a person throws out there for evidence about whether an O-line or D-Line is good or not, they will never tell the whole story, and that is why one must watch the O-Line or D-Line and see how they play instead of just looking at a boxscore.

Blazing Arrow
06-16-2007, 09:18 PM
Yes Carr is faster and more mobile than some QBs including Schaub and Peyton but that does not mean he knows what to do with it.

When did the Texans get a line that could even wash the jocks of the line in Indi? The weakness in Manning is getting pressure on him and being consistent with it. The pats have used it almost every game and very effectively in the playoffs; that mixed with an O that can control the clock.

Now I am not comparing Schaub to anyone but for examble .... Joe Montana was not very moblie but he was elusive, he knew when to step-up in the pocket and throw the ball and get it to a WR, RB or a TE.

Dude you seriously should not bring up 9er history from a guy who lived it. Montana was a very mobile QB until his back injury. Allot of people credit (S)Young’s vision to run because he was under Montana. If I remember correctly Joe’s back injury came on a run play. But like a solid QB that can scramble over time you learn you do not need to scramble but let the D believe that you might and just let the whole work for you..


When Carr scrambled he would on more occassions than not run out of bounds behind the line of scrimmage and that constitues a sack. When you fumble the ball and fall on it, it is counted as a sack. Inwco you have a window, especially on slant patterens where you have to get the ball out quickly and in perfect timing, since you say you watch about 6 games a year, how good was he at doing that or checking down to the next option?

I think you generalize too much. You say a QB should go through his progression down the deep to the middle to the short to the RB/FB. I understand the logic but you think of the game way to XO and treat the QB more like a machine then a person. Carr’s big issue was he would look his #1 look then check down to his FB/RB or short WR. He does this because he does not need to lead with as much strength and can get the ball out faster. He should be looking middle of the field but has been shell shocked over the seasons that if he makes that read and there is coverage he is in the turf. So his options are 2WR chance of loss on play, or dump and maybe gain 3 probably not lose any yards. Allot of QBs do it. A Smith, McNair, Collins, Green, (any Raiders QB), Rivers, Brees. It usually works well on a run happy team.

Your arguments and trying to bad mouth the line with any real information is not holding water.

Do I really need to point out that Carr went down another 41 times last season? You act like it is a shock that anyone would question the Texans O-line when they consistently are in the tops with sacks allowed on there starting QB.



Just like espin .. Nice draft but they did not draft an OL with the 10th pick, forget there was none available without a huge reach. Schelareth (sp) actually said the texans did not draft a lineman. This coming from a 10th round draft pick. You are not making strong arguements what so ever, like you said to DB, your repeating yourself, but you are not actually saying anything of real substance.

Honestly I see little fault in what the Texans did in the 1st round (maybe no the down trade but only 2 spots). If you get Mario the year before you better get a DT or LB to help him out the next season. You scored with D Ryans so a stud DT IMO was an obvious choice. Any thing less and the media really questions what you are committed too.

As said before pick a side O/D and stick with it. If you jump you will be a team like the Jags that is in limbo.

Specnatz
06-16-2007, 09:28 PM
Yes and the reasons his ypc avg went down can be directly attributed to the lack of passing protection provided by the O-Line. You see low ypc avg is the symptom and bad O-line play is the disease. The way I see it is that many who post here are misdiagnosing the disease with its symptoms.

It could also be attributed his poor performance with fumbling the ball and his ability to not check down and to read once so the coaching staff created the dink and dunk method because of his inability to read a defense and lock onto one receiver.

As far as getting rid of a player based upon a business decision, you are 100%, they wanted to win games and the best way to do that was get rid of Carr. If the Texans had to actually worry about selling tickets (all games are sold out and all season tickets are sold) they would have drafted vy. This is not about money and revenue. Anyone who says that has no idea the finance of football or the Texans. Getting rid of Carr now cost the texans money, not because of sales or tickets or anything of that nature, it cost the Texans money because of signing bonus given to Carr.

This has been played out to the hilt, yes the OL has stunk some but a QB with poor pocket pressence can make a line look far worse than it is. Just as a QB with great pocket pressence can make a line look great. Can you guess where Carr fits into that?

Specnatz
06-16-2007, 09:36 PM
Do I really need to point out that Carr went down another 41 times last season? You act like it is a shock that anyone would question the Texans O-line when they consistently are in the tops with sacks allowed on there starting QB.


Honestly I see little fault in what the Texans did in the 1st round (maybe no the down trade but only 2 spots). If you get Mario the year before you better get a DT or LB to help him out the next season. You scored with D Ryans so a stud DT IMO was an obvious choice. Any thing less and the media really questions what you are committed too.

As said before pick a side O/D and stick with it. If you jump you will be a team like the Jags that is in limbo.


The Italic part: This is the problem, you say carr went down 41 times, but honestly how did he cause himself? I know of at the very least 12 right off the top of my head without even having to go back and watch any games. That right there would put them in the top 10. Add Green at rb and Leach at fb and that should be reduced by even more.

The bold part: I could not agree more.

ReliantTexan
06-16-2007, 09:36 PM
If I was making a case for Carr, about the last thing I'd do is cite his completion percentage from last year. That's a bit of a dead giveaway that he doesn't have a good platform to speak from on the Texans - aside from they were a bad team which any pre-K can conclude. The completion percentage argument is even more lame than blaming everything on the offensive line.Yeah and if he did watch Texans games and still made a case for Carr because of his completion %. Well then his opinion is about as useless as a rubber nail.

Blazing Arrow
06-16-2007, 09:49 PM
The Italic part: This is the problem, you say carr went down 41 times, but honestly how did he cause himself? I know of at the very least 12 right off the top of my head without even having to go back and watch any games. That right there would put them in the top 10. Add Green at rb and Leach at fb and that should be reduced by even more.

delusional:a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact: a paranoid delusion.

A QB going down can be blamed on the QB from time to time but even the best need time on certain plays. You can blame the QB for the years past but you set yourself up for heart break.

If Shammy goes down 30+ times next seaons who do you blame then?

frequentfliertx
06-16-2007, 09:54 PM
I still can't believe that people are trashing DC. He's gone. Forget about the past. We should be focusing on the future of our football team. Hopefully, Schaub will pan out. He's only played two NFL games (losing both) so how much faith can you put into a QB with that track record. He's on our team now so we should really give him our support. Actually, I really wanted Vince Young to be our QB but afterall, you can't have everything. Oh,well! GO TEXANS!!!:fans: :texflag: :cowboy1: :d: :rally:

BattleRedToro
06-16-2007, 11:09 PM
It could also be attributed his poor performance with fumbling the ball and his ability to not check down and to read once so the coaching staff created the dink and dunk method because of his inability to read a defense and lock onto one receiver.

As far as getting rid of a player based upon a business decision, you are 100%, they wanted to win games and the best way to do that was get rid of Carr. If the Texans had to actually worry about selling tickets (all games are sold out and all season tickets are sold) they would have drafted vy. This is not about money and revenue. Anyone who says that has no idea the finance of football or the Texans. Getting rid of Carr now cost the texans money, not because of sales or tickets or anything of that nature, it cost the Texans money because of signing bonus given to Carr.

This has been played out to the hilt, yes the OL has stunk some but a QB with poor pocket pressence can make a line look far worse than it is. Just as a QB with great pocket pressence can make a line look great. Can you guess where Carr fits into that?

My point was that it is very possible that the Texans made a football decision instead of a business decision when they decided to extend Carr instead of drafting Vince Young and were summarily crucified for it by the press and the fans, so in an attempt to win back fans and the media the Texans then made a business decision and replaced Carr. That is exactly how I see it.

Specnatz
06-17-2007, 12:35 AM
delusional:a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact: a paranoid delusion.

A QB going down can be blamed on the QB from time to time but even the best need time on certain plays. You can blame the QB for the years past but you set yourself up for heart break.

If Shammy goes down 30+ times next seaons who do you blame then?

If a frog had wings he would not bump his ass when he hopped. You can put in all the ifs you want but they are not facts, so trying to make a point on what might happen is where everyone knows you have no argument.


My point was that it is very possible that the Texans made a football decision instead of a business decision when they decided to extend Carr instead of drafting Vince Young and were summarily crucified for it by the press and the fans, so in an attempt to win back fans and the media the Texans then made a business decision and replaced Carr. That is exactly how I see it.

What press are you talking about? ut paper, the strokers in Austin or on 610? The national media, and they still do, say carr was screwed by the Texans they say he has the tools and the Texans did nothing for him. Seriously, the only people claiming that it was a mistake (AT THE TIME) not to take vy was local ut folks. Then of course after vy had a very good season everyone came out of the wood work saying how do you pass on him. When these same dumbasses said it would take at least two years of vy sitting on the bench.

Win what fans back? The Texans still have a waiting list for season tickets as they did last year and the year before and the two years before that. So a bunch of ut fans scalped tickets and were at the games last year, they are not and nor will they ever be Texans fans, they love ut football not the Texans, most of those buttmonkeys who wore vy jerseys in Reliant stadium are probably cowgirl fans. I could careless about them.


You can't win fans back who were not fans in the first place!!

:texflag:

infantrycak
06-17-2007, 01:16 AM
If Shammy goes down 30+ times next seaons who do you blame then?

Well gee Alex, I'll try ignorant NFL questions for $1000.

Only 11 teams gave up less than 30 sacks last season. I'm guessing Texan fans will be rejoicing if they are in the top half of the league in that stat.

ChildressTitanMan
06-17-2007, 07:34 AM
Your own Andre Johnson on Carr.

He said it was disappointing that Carr, who was the first pick in the 2002 draft, wasn't able to succeed in Houston and offered an opinion why. Johnson was the third overall pick in 2003.

"From my first year here, I think it was the way he was coached," Johnson said.

"My first couple of years here he was pretty much just told where to throw the ball at, and a lot of people didn't know that. He was never really taught to go through reads and things like that. Once coach (Gary) Kubiak came in, that was his big thing, teaching him how to go through reads. So it was like he was starting all over again."
http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/HOU/10106365

Maybe you can credit only taking 41 sacks to some improvement on Carr's part. Schaub is IMO still going to have protection issues.

BattleRedToro
06-17-2007, 12:11 PM
If a frog had wings he would not bump his ass when he hopped. You can put in all the ifs you want but they are not facts, so trying to make a point on what might happen is where everyone knows you have no argument.




What press are you talking about? ut paper, the strokers in Austin or on 610? The national media, and they still do, say carr was screwed by the Texans they say he has the tools and the Texans did nothing for him. Seriously, the only people claiming that it was a mistake (AT THE TIME) not to take vy was local ut folks. Then of course after vy had a very good season everyone came out of the wood work saying how do you pass on him. When these same dumbasses said it would take at least two years of vy sitting on the bench.

Win what fans back? The Texans still have a waiting list for season tickets as they did last year and the year before and the two years before that. So a bunch of ut fans scalped tickets and were at the games last year, they are not and nor will they ever be Texans fans, they love ut football not the Texans, most of those buttmonkeys who wore vy jerseys in Reliant stadium are probably cowgirl fans. I could careless about them.


You can't win fans back who were not fans in the first place!!

:texflag:

That is totally revisionist history on your part. I distinctly remember the Texans being ridiculed for passing on both Vince Young and Reggie Bush immediately after the draft, not just at the conclusion of the season. The criticism of the Texans for drafting Mario Williams started immediately and not just locally as you claim. It was nationwide.

The fact that the Texans still have a waiting list for season tickets just reinforces my point. That point being that had they stayed with David Carr at QB then there would have been many people not renewing their season tickets and therefore you wouldn't have the waiting list that you currently have. In my opinion, it became very apparent to Bob McNair that a change had to be made at QB to give the fans hope of a turn around, after he saw the many poorly attended games last year and the threat of the mass exodus of season ticket holders. Bob McNair is a smart business man and he wasn't about to allow his team to lose its profitability. Sometimes in business and politics blame for the failures of the whole are disproportionately allocated to one person that is allowed to take the fall to the benefit of those who remain behind. That isn't to say that the scapegoat is entirely innocent of blame, just that he isn't deserving of the full blame of the failures of the whole.

Honoring Earl 34
06-17-2007, 12:39 PM
That isn't to same that the scapegoat is entirely innocent of blame, just that he isn't deserving of the full blame of the failures of the whole.

That's a fair statement . Carr just happen to be the face of the franchise in a football town . That's why he got the big bucks and to expect the fans to stick with him year after year of losing was just naive

If basketball were king ... Tmac or Yao would get the brunt of the heat .

Specnatz
06-17-2007, 04:22 PM
That is totally revisionist history on your part. I distinctly remember the Texans being ridiculed for passing on both Vince Young and Reggie Bush immediately after the draft, not just at the conclusion of the season. The criticism of the Texans for drafting Mario Williams started immediately and not just locally as you claim. It was nationwide.

The fact that the Texans still have a waiting list for season tickets just reinforces my point. That point being that had they stayed with David Carr at QB then there would have been many people not renewing their season tickets and therefore you wouldn't have the waiting list that you currently have. In my opinion, it became very apparent to Bob McNair that a change had to be made at QB to give the fans hope of a turn around, after he saw the many poorly attended games last year and the threat of the mass exodus of season ticket holders. Bob McNair is a smart business man and he wasn't about to allow his team to lose its profitability. Sometimes in business and politics blame for the failures of the whole are disproportionately allocated to one person that is allowed to take the fall to the benefit of those who remain behind. That isn't to say that the scapegoat is entirely innocent of blame, just that he isn't deserving of the full blame of the failures of the whole.

This is not fact, it is an opinion only, you do not know that nor can you say that you do. Look around how many season ticket holders are here on this board and ask if they would have renewed rthere tickets and I am sure that most would say yes.

As far as vy, goes it is not revisionist history at all. Kiper and the lones at espn and on fox they did not mention vy at the draft they mentioned bush, you cant pass him up. Why would some so called expert say carr can succeed then say they should have taken vy, that would be even more two faced than most of them already are.

I am not even sure f you are a Texan fan, at least by your recent post.


:texflag:

BattleRedToro
06-17-2007, 04:46 PM
Specnatz,

First of all, of course it is my opinion. I never intended for my conclusion about the possibility of a mass exodus of season ticket holders to be presented as a fact, but you are wrong when you say that the Texans were only derided for passing on Reggie Bush at the time of the draft. I remember very clearly how they were ridiculed. You are correct that there was a far greater cry nationally over passing on Reggie Bush then there was for passing on Vince Young, but there still was criticism over passing on Vince Young as well. Finally, I've been a member of the message board longer than you have, so don't act like I'm not a fan of the Texans, just because you don't agree with my post or because I am willing to be critical of some of their personnel moves. Don't be fooled by my low post count, either. I had far more but I was banned once over what was percieved as a sexual insinuation. When you are banned they erase all of your posts.

Topher
06-17-2007, 04:55 PM
Specnatz,

First of all, of course it is my opinion. I never intended for my conclusion about the possibility of a mass exodus of season ticket holders to be presented as a fact, but you are wrong when you say that the Texans were only derided for passing on Reggie Bush at the time of the draft. I remember very clearly how they were ridiculed. You are correct that there was a far greater cry nationally over passing on Reggie Bush then there was for passing on Vince Young, but there still was criticism over passing on Vince Young as well. Finally, I've been a member of the message board longer than you have, so don't act like I'm not a fan of the Texans, just because you don't agree with my post or because I am willing to be critical of some of their personnel moves. Don't be fooled by my low post count, either. I had far more but I was banned once over what was percieved as a sexual insinuation. When you are banned they erase all of your posts.



Dude you are a Carr Fan. I cant think of ONE post of yours since he was CUT that had anything good to say about the Texans! :pirate:

BattleRedToro
06-17-2007, 05:31 PM
Dude you are a Carr Fan. I cant think of ONE post of yours since he was CUT that had anything good to say about the Texans! :pirate:

That isn't true. I have been an ardent defender of Mario Williams and that hasn't stopped since Carr was cut.

Topher
06-17-2007, 05:47 PM
That isn't true. I have been an ardent defender of Mario Williams and that hasn't stopped since Carr was cut.

In all truth I was just giving you a hard time. I could care less if your a Texans fan or not. You have every right to be here and post here! So Cheers!:beer:

BattleRedToro
06-17-2007, 05:56 PM
In all truth I was just giving you a hard time. I could care less if your a Texans fan or not. You have every right to be here and post here! So Cheers!:beer:

That's cool. I am a Texans fan, and a football fan in general, but I hate the business side of the NFL, especially when I see my favorite team make a move that I feel was predicated on appease a malcontent part of their fanbase. Despite that, I am still a Texans fan though.

:texflag:

Overalls
06-17-2007, 06:01 PM
I was a Carr fan all the way up till the last part of last season. 2 TDs in 10 games won't cut it.

Topher
06-17-2007, 06:05 PM
I was a Carr fan all the way up till the last part of last season. 2 TDs in 10 games won't cut it.

But you were never just a fan of the Texans because your Favorite player was on the team:beerfunnel:

Overalls
06-17-2007, 06:07 PM
But you were never just a fan of the Texans because your Favorite player was on the team:beerfunnel:

I was a fan before Torro rode the helicopter to Jillians.

Topher
06-17-2007, 06:22 PM
I was a fan before Torro rode the helicopter to Jillians.

Hell yeah! :fans: I don't post much but I spy daily !

I see you on the rivals boards Give them Hell Sir! :pirate:

Specnatz
06-17-2007, 07:02 PM
Specnatz,

First of all, of course it is my opinion. I never intended for my conclusion about the possibility of a mass exodus of season ticket holders to be presented as a fact, but you are wrong when you say that the Texans were only derided for passing on Reggie Bush at the time of the draft. I remember very clearly how they were ridiculed. You are correct that there was a far greater cry nationally over passing on Reggie Bush then there was for passing on Vince Young, but there still was criticism over passing on Vince Young as well. Finally, I've been a member of the message board longer than you have, so don't act like I'm not a fan of the Texans, just because you don't agree with my post or because I am willing to be critical of some of their personnel moves. Don't be fooled by my low post count, either. I had far more but I was banned once over what was percieved as a sexual insinuation. When you are banned they erase all of your posts.

I am not even sure f you are a Texan fan, at least by your recent post.

I did not say you were not a fan I questioned it based on post in this thread. I have been critical of some decisions and have said all along that everyone shares blame over the last few years. I still disagree about vy (except local) I just do not recal vy ever being discussed in the national media as an option it was all about the KR.

Honoring Earl 34
06-17-2007, 07:32 PM
That's cool. I am a Texans fan, and a football fan in general, but I hate the business side of the NFL, especially when I see my favorite team make a move that I feel was predicated on appease a malcontent part of their fanbase. Despite that, I am still a Texans fan though.

:texflag:

So you think Carr should have stayed ?

real
06-17-2007, 09:04 PM
Business had nothing to do with Carr leaving. That is silly.

If business were driving this ship VY or RB would be a Texan.


Carr is a bad QB. Our line isn't great.

If you have a mediocre QB you can win. If you have a dominant QB you are always in the hunt.If you have a BAD QB you can't win regardless.

BattleRedToro
06-17-2007, 10:32 PM
Business had nothing to do with Carr leaving. That is silly.

If business were driving this ship VY or RB would be a Texan.


Carr is a bad QB. Our line isn't great.

If you have a mediocre QB you can win. If you have a dominant QB you are always in the hunt.If you have a BAD QB you can't win regardless.

Go back and read my posts explaining how I see it as a business decision.

Now, if you substitute Offensive Line for everytime you wrote QB in that last sentence you would finally be correct about football. In other words it reads as such in its corrected form:

If you have a mediocre Offensive Line you can win. If you have a dominant Offensive Line you are always in the hunt.If you have a BAD Offensive Line you can't win regardless.

real
06-17-2007, 10:48 PM
I am merely saying that the O-Line is bad and because of this I am unable to make a fair judgement of David Carr and for posting such as this my posts have been derided by you as ignorant.

That's really not my problem. If you can't judge players based on their own performance then so be it. In that case I'm not sure anyone could ever take your assessment of someones ability to play football seriously because it's as if you fail to acknowledge players abilities past the lines...either that or you just have trouble recognizing it. You haven't given one valid reason why you think the O-line is bad other than the same old re-hash of 'David gets sacked a lot' and I've seen the line 'breakdown a lot'. Heck, you're not even naming specific players. All you're doing is making a blind obsevation with no facts of your own; only blind analysis of the national media. That is why I called your post ignorant. I haven't seen you post one piece of your own analysis unless you call 'I've seen the line breakdown' analysis.

real
06-17-2007, 10:56 PM
Go back and read my posts explaining how I see it as a business decision.

Now, if you substitute Offensive Line for everytime you wrote QB in that last sentence you would finally be correct about football. In other words it reads as such in its corrected form:

If you have a mediocre Offensive Line you can win. If you have a dominant Offensive Line you are always in the hunt.If you have a BAD Offensive Line you can't win regardless.

Well see that's the thing. I don't think O-lines vary that much...

What was the difference between the Colts o-line and the Steelers this past year ?

What about the cowboys and the patriots ?

What about the Bears and the Rams ?

The Titans and the Seahawks ?

What team in the NFL would you say that has a dominant O-line that is 'always' in the hunt regardless of who's behind center?

You can look at a game and easily tell the difference between the QB's. Not so much with the lines. You would pretty much have to record the games and actually sit down and break down the films. Because QB A gets sacked more than QB B does not mean that QB A's line is worst. I'm just looking for some substance as to why you think our line is bad. I haven't gotten any yet.

BattleRedToro
06-18-2007, 07:43 AM
Well see that's the thing. I don't think O-lines vary that much...

What was the difference between the Colts o-line and the Steelers this past year ?

What about the cowboys and the patriots ?

What about the Bears and the Rams ?

The Titans and the Seahawks ?

What team in the NFL would you say that has a dominant O-line that is 'always' in the hunt regardless of who's behind center?

You can look at a game and easily tell the difference between the QB's. Not so much with the lines. You would pretty much have to record the games and actually sit down and break down the films. Because QB A gets sacked more than QB B does not mean that QB A's line is worst. I'm just looking for some substance as to why you think our line is bad. I haven't gotten any yet.

The way I see it you can look at a game and easily tell the difference between the performance of 2 QB's. That isn't the same thing as the difference between the 2 QB's themselves because every QB's perfomance, and for that matter each players peformance, is dependent on the play of everyone else. That is what makes it so difficult to compare players, but that being said it can be done to a certain degree. I really don't think that you realize that even though in my opinion the Texans O-line is terrible I still concede that David Carr still could have played better than he did, but short of some miracle the Texans were never going to be competitive with the way that their O-line played.

Now, as for analysis, I'm sorry, but I really don't have the time or the film to do the thorough analysis that you desire to hear from me. I really wish I could, but I fear it still wouldn't dissuade your opinion on the matter, which would make it all the more frustrating because it would mean I had wasted my time.

I arrive at my opinion that the Texans O-line is bad from watching the games, and nothing more. I provided the opinion of other people that are in the sports media only to support my opinion, not to form it, as you have implied.