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Mistril48
10-28-2004, 12:13 PM
Old Posting (new posting below)

In a salary cap regime like the NFL, the value of a player is a function of his performance measured against his cap value. A non-expansion NFL team typically drafts 12 players (the “T12” if you will) in the first 3 rounds over a 4 year period. These 12 players are particularly valuable to a franchise in a salary cap regime, because they typically have much lower cap values than players signed through free agency. For example, Chester Pitts has a 2004 cap value of $705,000, but Steve McKinney has a 2004 cap value of $3,050,000.

Typically, an impact player becomes a free agent after four accrued years and either leaves, or receives his first big free agency contract. Each year, a franchise typically loses 3 first day drafted players to free agency (unless they re-sign the players) and get three replacements through the draft, thereby maintaining their T12 (in some cases, of course, a player drafted to be a T12 player won’t work out and a team may end up with less than 12, or a second day drafted player may excel, like Domanick Davis, thereby creating more than 12). McKinney, Bradford, Wong, Smith and Wade are all examples of four year players who got big raises to come to the Texans for their 5th year.

In the 2002 season, the Texans first year, they only had 5 T12 (1 first, 2 second and 2 third), while all the other teams had 12. Bummer. Unlike the Panthers and the Jaguars, the Texans weren’t given any extra first round picks. Hard to compete.

The good news is the Texans have now caught up, thanks to expansion picks and Charlie Casserly’s astute trades. They now have 12 players who they drafted on the first day. The Texans now have a T12 like other NFL teams. Good.

New Posting

How about the Texans next opponent (players drafted by Coughlin in Blue), the Jags. How does their T12 compare with the Texans?

. . YR . . Texans (only 3 yrs) . . . . . . YR . . . Jags (4 yrs)

F . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .’01 DT Marcus Stroud
I. . ’02 . QB David Carr . . . . . . . . . . .’02 DT John Henderson
R . ’03 . WR Andre Johnson . . . . . . . .‘03 QB Byron Leftwich
S . ’04 . CB Dunta Robinson . . . . . . . ’04 WR Reggie Williams
T . ’04 . LB Jason Babin

S . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ’01 OT Maurice Williams
E . ’02 . WR Jabar Gaffney
C . ’02 . OL Chester Pitts . . . . . . . . . .’02 OT Mike Pearson
O . ’03 . TE Benny Joppru . . . . . . . . . ‘03 CB Rashean Mathis
N . ’04 . RB Tony Hollings. . . . . . . . . . ’04 LB Daryl Smith
D . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ’04 RB Greg Jones


. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ’01 LB Eric Westmoreland
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ’01 DB James Boyd
T . ’02 . OL Fred Weary . . . . . . . . . . '02 LB Akin Ayodele
H . ’02 . OL Charles Hill (released)
I . ’03. . LB Antwan Peek. . . . . . . . . . ’03 OG Vince Manuwai
R . ’03 . OL Seth Wand
D . ’03 .QB Dave Ragone
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ’04 LB Jorge Cordova


I would argue that the Jags, like the Vikings & Tacks, illustrate how we have ‘arrived’ after just three years of drafts. We drafted 13 first day players and the Jags have drafted 14. The Texans have generated 7 starters (Carr, Johnson, Gaffney, Pitts, Wand, Babin, Robinson) from our T12. The Jags have generated 9 starters, 4 under Coughlin (I think – Stroud, Henderson, Williams, Ayodele) and 5 under Harris (I think –Leftwich, Manuai, Smith, Mathis, Williams) from their T12.


. . . . . . Texans (only 3 yrs) . . . . . . . . . . Jags (4 yrs)

. . . . . . QB David Carr . . . . . . . . . . . . .QB Byron Leftwich
. . . . . . QB Dave Ragone

. . . . . . RB Tony Hollings . . . . . . . . . . . RB Greg Jones

. . . . . .WR Andre Johnson . . . . . . . . . . WR Reggie Williams
. . . . . .WR Jabar Gaffney

. . . . . . TE Benny Joppru

. . . . . .OG Chester Pitts . . . . . . . . . . . .OT Maurice Williams
. . . . . .OT Seth Wand. . . . . . . . . . . . . .OT Mike Pearson
. . . . . .OG Fred Weary . . . . . . . . . . . . .OG Vince Manuwai


. . . . . .DL Charles Hill (released) . . . . . . DT Marcus Stroud
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .DT John Henderson

. . . . . .LB Jason Babin. . . . . . . . . . . . . .LB Daryl Smith
. . . . . .LB Antwan Peek . . . . . . . . . . . . LB Eric Westmoreland
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . .LB Akin Ayodele
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . .LB Jorge Cordova

. . . . . .CB Dunta Robinson . . . . . . . . . . .CB Rashean Mathis
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . DB James Boyd

Would you trade our players, above, for their players, above?


Old Posting

And the news gets better for the Texans. In 2005, the Texans should keep all of their T12 (none will have four accrued years) and add 4 new members through the 2005 draft (1 first, 1 second and 2 thirds), giving them a total of 16 T12. Great news!


. . YR . . Texans (4 yrs)

F. .‘02 . QB David Carr
I . ’03 . WR Andre Johnson
R . ’04 . CB Dunta Robinson
S . ‘04 . LB Jason Babin
T . ’05 . . . . P I C K

S . ’02 . WR Jabar Gaffney
E . ’02 . OL Chester Pitts
C . ’03 . TE Benny Joppru
O . ’04 . RB Tony Hollings
N . ’05 . . . . P I C K

. . ‘02 . OL Fred Weary
T . ’02 . OL Charles Hill (released)
H . ’03 . LB Antwan Peek
I . .‘03 . OL Seth Wand
R . ‘03 . QB Dave Ragone
D . ’05 . . . . P I C K
. .. ’05 . . . . P I C K

fusionbeats
10-28-2004, 12:32 PM
. . . . . . Texans (only 3 yrs) . . . . . . . . . . Jags (4 yrs)

. . . . . . QB David Carr . . . . . . . . . . . . .QB Byron Leftwich
. . . . . . QB Dave Ragone

. . . . . . RB Tony Hollings . . . . . . . . . . . RB Greg Jones

. . . . . .WR Andre Johnson . . . . . . . . . . WR Reggie Williams
. . . . . .WR Jabar Gaffney

. . . . . . TE Benny Joppru

. . . . . .OG Chester Pitts . . . . . . . . . . . .OT Maurice Williams
. . . . . .OT Seth Wand. . . . . . . . . . . . . .OT Mike Pearson
. . . . . .OG Fred Weary . . . . . . . . . . . . .OG Vince Manuwai


. . . . . .DL Charles Hill (released) . . . . . . DT Marcus Stroud
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .DT John Henderson

. . . . . .LB Jason Babin. . . . . . . . . . . . . .LB Daryl Smith
. . . . . .LB Antwan Peek . . . . . . . . . . . . LB Eric Westmoreland
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . .LB Akin Ayodele
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . .LB Jorge Cordova

. . . . . .CB Dunta Robinson . . . . . . . . . . .CB Rashean Mathis
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . DB James Boyd

Would you trade our players, above, for their players, above?





Ummm.... I'll keep our guys. I feel confident that any nfl coach would do the same.

Grid
10-28-2004, 12:45 PM
Only place I see them obviously leading is in the defensive line department.. but we havent really drafted DL yet. You could argue that they lead in the LB department as well.. but that will really have to wait until we see if Babin is the real deal... he seems great so far.

This year we will be drafting DL im sure.. so we will get to see how we compare in that area as well.

Id definatly take ours over theirs.. Other than Leftwich.. their offensive draft picks have been questionable IMO.

Mistril48
10-28-2004, 02:02 PM
For those that think the Jags have a better list, remember that they have had 4 years of drafts to the Texans 3 years, but I wouldn't argue the list either way. I think both teams have done well. In a few years, we'll know better.

I think it's interesting how well Coughlin did, drafting the tackles for the Jags. Del Rio gets all the credit, but Coughlin cotributed the tackles (and WR Smith and RB Taylor) ... and now he's showing his coaching ability with the Giants.

TheOgre
10-28-2004, 02:33 PM
I honestly like Leftwich, Henderson, and Stroud. I like their T12 a bit better than ours atm.

Vinny
10-28-2004, 02:37 PM
So since all the players you list are high first rd picks you would trade Leftwich, Henderson and Stroud straight up for Carr, Andre Johnson and Dunta Robinson then. Right?

chuckm
10-28-2004, 02:40 PM
I'll take whichever list has AJ in it ........

wags
10-28-2004, 02:42 PM
I would trade our O-line picks for theirs.

TheOgre
10-28-2004, 02:46 PM
So since all the players you list are high first rd picks you would trade Leftwich, Henderson and Stroud straight up for Carr, Andre Johnson and Dunta Robinson then. Right?

If we were running a 4-3, the answer would be "Yes".

Vinny
10-28-2004, 02:47 PM
I would trade our O-line picks for theirs. I wouldn't. Pitts is better than everyone on that list and Wand will be better than Pearson.

Vinny
10-28-2004, 02:48 PM
If we were running a 4-3, the answer would be "Yes".
If Christmas was in April Santa would be wearing shorts. :hehe:

The team with the best player wins the trade. AJ is the best player in that group.

dalemurphy
10-28-2004, 03:08 PM
Both teams' lists are impressive. It looks like this will be a fun rivalry for a long time. In truth, our list should be better than theirs. Starting from scratch, we were able to draft solely on BPA. Existing teams, however, can't exclusively do that.

Having said that, with each week that goes by, it appears our scouting and Casserly and company are doing an excellent job. We've had three good drafts and zero busts in the first two rounds (with Joppru still a question)

Reddevil63
10-28-2004, 03:22 PM
If Christmas was in April Santa would be wearing shorts. :hehe:

The team with the best player wins the trade. AJ is the best player in that group.
Amen! AJ is the best player out of the 03 Draft period.

TheOgre
10-28-2004, 03:38 PM
If Christmas was in April Santa would be wearing shorts. :hehe: Smart arse!!

The team with the best player wins the trade. AJ is the best player in that group.

Since we are a 3-4 team, I wouldn't make the trade. Those two DT's don't help OUR team (a 3-4 one) as much right now as Dunta and AJ. I do like Leftwich, Henderson, and Stroud MORE for the Jaguars, though, than I like AJ, Carr, and Dunta for us. Not a lot more but more.

Those three players for Jacksonville are the main reason they are 5-2 and leading the division. Teams have been stumbling over themselves to get ONE stud DT in the past few drafts and the Jags have TWO. They help shut down most team's ability to run with the ball and force teams to throw. It takes pressure off the corners and helps a team control the tempo.

The DT's are also multi-dimensional enough to provide some pressure up the middle on pass plays. If they ever got a couple of average DE's (I still think the Reggie Williams pick was a reach), then they could have the best D-line in the league.
Leftwich has a year less in the league than Carr, but appears to be performing at about the same level. Leftwich came "no assembly required" whereas Carr has needed more work to get him up to the NFL level. Carr may be the better QB in the long run, but that has yet to be seen.

I don't necessarily agree with your automatic presumption that AJ is the best of these 6. He is going to be a top talent at WR but the Jags two DT's are already 2 of the best DT's in the NFL (right after the currently injured Kris Jenkins). You apparently don't have the same respect for these two that I do.

Vinny
10-28-2004, 03:41 PM
I have a ton of respect for those two, but no way I trade a game breaking WR for a defensive tackle. If the NFL redrafted Stroud, Hainsworth and AJ in an expansion draft I'd bet AJ would be the first player taken.

Grid
10-28-2004, 03:44 PM
eh.. the way I see it.. our offense is set to explode.. and our defense has nowhere to go but up. We are shaping up to have a top 10 defense for the next 5 years or so, the way we are looking now.. and with a couple defensive drafts under our belt.. ive have complete faith that we will also be an above average defensive team.

TheOgre
10-28-2004, 04:08 PM
I have a ton of respect for those two, but no way I trade a game breaking WR for a defensive tackle. If the NFL redrafted Stroud, Hainsworth and AJ in an expansion draft I'd bet AJ would be the first player taken.

The discussion was about a comparison of two sets of 3 players, not one on one. Defense wins championships. Just look at the 2000 Baltimore Ravens, the two Patriots teams and the 2002 Tampa Bay Bucs. The Bucs won with Anthony McFarland and Warren Sapp in the middle. The Patriots won in 2003 with Ted Washington (3-4). The Ravens had Tony Siragusa. None of these teams had a top tier WR.

Vinny
10-28-2004, 04:10 PM
Lots of teams have top tackles and never sniff the Superbowl. The superbowl formula is a bit more complex than who has the best tackles.

Mistril48
10-28-2004, 04:17 PM
The team with the best player wins the trade...
I hadn't thought of it that way. That's interesting. It's a little hard to wrap your head around that approach here, because all 6 players are good players. I think I want to think about that in terms of other trades and other sports.

Is this an original thought, or have you heard other commentators refer to that approach to evaluating trades?

AJ is the best player in that group.
I can't disagree now, but I feel that Carr has an unlimited upside as he gains experience. He seems to have it all ... size, speed, toughness, arm strength ... but then Dre has it all too ... freakish size/speed combination

Vinny
10-28-2004, 04:19 PM
Well when you consider that our team is Leftwich to Gaffney and Bradford if we do that....I'll stick to Walker and Payne and keep Carr and AJ.

TheOgre
10-28-2004, 04:38 PM
We were comparing the value of two sets of players. Not the impact those two sets would have on the Texans (you threw that curveball in there). If I were to start a franchise from scratch, I would go with Leftwich and the two tackles over Carr, AJ, and Robinson. I don't think that position is indefensible Vinny. Obviously, I am not entitled to a difference of opinion from yours.

Vinny
10-28-2004, 04:40 PM
We were comparing the value of two sets of players. Not the impact those two sets would have on the Texans (you threw that curveball in there). If I were to start a franchise from scratch, I would go with Leftwich and the two tackles over Carr, AJ, and Robinson. I don't think that position is indefensible Vinny. Obviously, I am not entitled to a difference of opinion from yours. I just took your quote of isolating Henderson and Stroud and took it from there. The curveball was thrown by you, I just expanded on your thoughts.

Please show me where I tell you that you cannot have an opinion. I'd like to see it.

I honestly like Leftwich, Henderson, and Stroud.

So since all the players you list are high first rd picks you would trade Leftwich, Henderson and Stroud straight up for Carr, Andre Johnson and Dunta Robinson then. Right?

dalemurphy
10-28-2004, 05:56 PM
The discussion was about a comparison of two sets of 3 players, not one on one. Defense wins championships. Just look at the 2000 Baltimore Ravens, the two Patriots teams and the 2002 Tampa Bay Bucs. The Bucs won with Anthony McFarland and Warren Sapp in the middle. The Patriots won in 2003 with Ted Washington (3-4). The Ravens had Tony Siragusa. None of these teams had a top tier WR.


That's right. However, New England signed Ted Washington to a very small salary after he sat out without significant offers during the offseason. Tony Siragusa certainly wasn't a special player. And, McFarland and Sapp are entirely different linemen than Siragusa and Washington. Tony and Ted are classic two gap DTs while McFarland and Sapp are one gap players...

Those teams did win superbowls but they didn't do it by spending high draft picks on two gap DTs. The only first round pick in that group is Sapp and he's one gap DT...

Stroud and Henderson are very good players and I believe they are going to help Jacksonville to quite a few years of winning football. However, AJ is a special talent and Dunta Robinson looks like he is going to be an excellent NFL cornerback. All things equal, I believe that most NFL people would agree that they'd rather have Dunta and AJ over Stroud and Henderson. IT's going to be a lot of fun to fight over this the next 5 years as these two teams battle for a lot of AFC south division titles.

kuno
11-26-2004, 03:33 AM
That's right. However, New England signed Ted Washington to a very small salary after he sat out without significant offers during the offseason. Tony Siragusa certainly wasn't a special player. And, McFarland and Sapp are entirely different linemen than Siragusa and Washington. Tony and Ted are classic two gap DTs while McFarland and Sapp are one gap players...

Those teams did win superbowls but they didn't do it by spending high draft picks on two gap DTs. The only first round pick in that group is Sapp and he's one gap DT...

Stroud and Henderson are very good players and I believe they are going to help Jacksonville to quite a few years of winning football. However, AJ is a special talent and Dunta Robinson looks like he is going to be an excellent NFL cornerback. All things equal, I believe that most NFL people would agree that they'd rather have Dunta and AJ over Stroud and Henderson. IT's going to be a lot of fun to fight over this the next 5 years as these two teams battle for a lot of AFC south division titles.

I am a late comer in this conversation, but it is a good one and I will drag it up. Not from a Jag's/Texans fan point of view..but from a football fans point of view.

I think you will find that almost every coach in the NFL believes that the DL and OL are the base for any solid team. More so than any other set of positions. In a draft where a coach was offered Robinson/AJ or Stroud/Henderson, I think the coach would take the DL first. If he had nothing else in place yet.

Mistril48
11-26-2004, 01:01 PM
... I think you will find that almost every coach in the NFL believes that the DL and OL are the base for any solid team. More so than any other set of positions. In a draft where a coach was offered Robinson/AJ or Stroud/Henderson, I think the coach would take the DL first. If he had nothing else in place yet. A couple of comments:

a) You could argue that Casserly agrees with you, in that he focused on O-tackles (Boselli and Ryan, although it didn't work out), D-tackles (Payne and Walker) and CBs (Glenn and Coleman) in the expansion draft; and

b) While you would like to end up with quality D-tackles, particularly in a 4-3 defense, that doesn't mean that drafting is the best way to get them. While Coughlin hit on his D-tackles, IMO many highly drafted D-lineman don't work out. I would not be dissatisfied with the Texans, particularly as a 3-4 team, drafting for other positions and signing young free agent (proven) D-lineman, like the Baire (Robaire Smith)

Mistril48
12-21-2004, 07:51 PM
It's time for the Jags again .... can we go to 4-2 against them? .... and sweep our 2nd divisional foe this year?

TEXANS84
12-21-2004, 08:24 PM
I think so. I'm loving that we can be the spoilers twice to Jacksonville.

BTW..nice post 2 spots before Mistril....I didn't read that before.
Casserly did address the trenches first.

Fiddy
12-21-2004, 09:14 PM
’04 . CB Dunta Robinson . . . . . . . ’04 WR Reggie WilliamsThe ninth pick in the 2004 draft, Reggie Williams, has 27 receptions for 268 yards (9.9 yards per reception) with 1 TD and only 1 play over 20 yards.

The tenth pick in the 2004 draft, Dunta Robinson, has 76 total tackles (63 individual, 13 assisted) and 3 sacks while forcing 2 fumbles. Mr. Robinson also has 6 INTs and leads the league with 19 pass defensed.

To all Jaguar fans: HA!!!

AndreJ
12-21-2004, 09:20 PM
IT's going to be a lot of fun to fight over this the next 5 years as these two teams battle for a lot of AFC south division titles.

That thought right there just made my day. Battling the jags twice a year is a beautiful thing. I can see us having a lot of good games for years to come. And hopefully we can get some games on national television. MNFand late night Sunday's. :coolb:

jagsfanincanada
12-22-2004, 11:55 AM
I wouldn't. Pitts is better than everyone on that list and Wand will be better than Pearson.

*cough* homer *cough*

jagsfanincanada
12-22-2004, 12:01 PM
The ninth pick in the 2004 draft, Reggie Williams, has 27 receptions for 268 yards (9.9 yards per reception) with 1 TD and only 1 play over 20 yards.

The tenth pick in the 2004 draft, Dunta Robinson, has 76 total tackles (63 individual, 13 assisted) and 3 sacks while forcing 2 fumbles. Mr. Robinson also has 6 INTs and leads the league with 19 pass defensed.

To all Jaguar fans: HA!!!

The 1st pick in the 2002 draft, David Carr, has completed 257 of 422 throws for 3268 yards (60.9%), with 14 tds, 12 picks for an 84.5 passer rating.

The 7th pick in the 2003 draft, Byron Leftwich, has completed 246 of 399 throws for 2757 yards (61.7%), with 15 tds, 8 picks for an 86.4 passer rating.

So basically our second year guy is outplaying your third year guy, who you drafted #1 overall.

To all Texans fans: HA!!!

Fiddy
12-22-2004, 12:06 PM
The 1st pick in the 2002 draft, David Carr, has completed 257 of 422 throws for 3268 yards (60.9%), with 14 tds, 12 picks for an 84.5 passer rating.

The 7th pick in the 2003 draft, Byron Leftwich, has completed 246 of 399 throws for 2757 yards (61.7%), with 15 tds, 8 picks for an 86.4 passer rating.

So basically our second year guy is outplaying your third year guy, who you drafted #1 overall.

To all Texans fans: HA!!!Head-to-Head, David Carr is 2-0 lifetime against Leftwich...

And we never had a shot to draft Leftwich, you decided to go Reggie Williams over D-Rob. We didnt go Carr over Leftwich like yall went Williams over Robinson.

jagsfanincanada
12-22-2004, 12:19 PM
Head-to-Head, David Carr is 2-0 lifetime against Leftwich...

And we never had a shot to draft Leftwich, you decided to go Reggie Williams over D-Rob. We didnt go Carr over Leftwich like yall went Williams over Robinson.

Fair enough, but who's team is 8-6 and fighting for the playoffs, and who's team is 6-8? :)

Also, Leftwich was on the board when you guys drafted, but you had just chosen Carr the previous year. So technically you did have a shot to draft him. You had just already cast your lot with Carr (who happens to be being outplayed by Mr. Leftwich). :)

Vinny
12-22-2004, 01:46 PM
*cough* homer *cough*
I'm not much of a homer. Most of our fans don't like how critical I am of some of our own. I call it like I see it.

BradK10
12-22-2004, 01:47 PM
Outplaying?

2-0 vs. Leftwich, thats enough for me.

jagsfanincanada
12-22-2004, 03:22 PM
I'm not much of a homer. Most of our fans don't like how critical I am of some of our own. I call it like I see it.

How much have you seen our young offensive linemen play though?

Outplaying?

2-0 vs. Leftwich, thats enough for me.

Better record, better td-to-int percentage, better completion percentage, better passer rating. That's enough for me. Also, I didn't know football was a 1 vs. 1 sport. :)

shinerbock_girl
12-23-2004, 07:50 AM
How much have you seen our young offensive linemen play though?



Better record, better td-to-int percentage, better completion percentage, better passer rating. That's enough for me. Also, I didn't know football was a 1 vs. 1 sport. :)

MMMM, interesting, just a bit of DeJaVu here....Seems we covered ALLLLL these numbers last time we played these guys from the Jag fans on how the Jags "Better record, better td-to-int percentage, better completion percentage, better passer rating" then the Texans, yet with those EXCELLENT numbers they still lost 20-6...kind of tells you something doesn't it...Are you trying to convince us or YOU???? LOL...So i don't need numbers, just faith in the Texans again....

jagsfanincanada
12-23-2004, 10:04 AM
MMMM, interesting, just a bit of DeJaVu here....Seems we covered ALLLLL these numbers last time we played these guys from the Jag fans on how the Jags "Better record, better td-to-int percentage, better completion percentage, better passer rating" then the Texans, yet with those EXCELLENT numbers they still lost 20-6...kind of tells you something doesn't it...Are you trying to convince us or YOU???? LOL...So i don't need numbers, just faith in the Texans again....

Texans fans seem to forget is was 13-6 when we began our final drive and the pick returned for a score inflated the margin of victory. Some of you act like you beat us 41-0.

Also remember Fred Taylor had to leave that game with a hip pointer. He'll be playing this game, and is on his usual 2nd half tear. That doesn't bode well for a rush defense giving up 4.4 ypc and 115 yard per game.

shinerbock_girl
12-23-2004, 10:21 AM
Texans fans seem to forget is was 13-6 when we began our final drive and the pick returned for a score inflated the margin of victory. Some of you act like you beat us 41-0.

Also remember Fred Taylor had to leave that game with a hip pointer. He'll be playing this game, and is on his usual 2nd half tear. That doesn't bode well for a rush defense giving up 4.4 ypc and 115 yard per game.

Yeah and if Gaffney didn't screw up that endzone celebration fumble then we would have won 27-6....SOOO woulda shoulda coulda....We still won despite the numbers game on the stats...Any team is capable of winning, depends who has the most fire to want to win...Right now, Texans have nothing to lose because they won't make the playoffs, but they know the fate of the Jags making it is still on them....Now that will definately fire them up to win...LOL....YEAHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!....I think their equal on the fire so numbers don't mean anything now...Thats what will make this game soo much fun to watch.... :banana:

Mistril48
12-23-2004, 12:46 PM
From time to time, some people have asked: "What's so important about these T12 players out of a roster of 53," or "Why focus on these players when Tom Brady' was drafted in the 6th round ..."

While all generalizations have exceptions, I think this year's Pro Bowl serves as an example.

"Anyone wondering what all the fuss about the NFL draft is only has to take a look at players named to this year's Pro Bowl teams. Granted, the Pro Bowl voting isn't 100% science with players reputations sometimes counting as much, if not more, that actual on-field production. Still, the Pro Bowl is a reasonably accurate barometer of who the best players in the league are at this time. And what that barometer tells us is that just about all the top players in the league were indeed drafted and that most (90%) came to their teams as premium picks (first day picks)."
http://www.gbnreport.com/probowl.htm

It's even more dramatic with defensive playmakers, where 97.1 % of this year's Pro Bowl defensive players were drafted on the first day.

Breakdown of 2004 Pro Bowl positional players, by draft status

POS. . . . . .TTL . . . RD 1 . . RD 2-3 . . . . %

. . QB . . . . . .6 . . . . . 4 . . . . . .1 . . . . . 83.3
. . RB . . . . . .6 . . . . . 3. . . . . . 3 . . . . .100.0
. .WR . . . . . .8 . . . . . 3 . . . . . .4 . . . . . 87.5
. . OT . . . . . .6 . . . . . 6. . . . . . 0 . . . . 100.0
. .OG . . . . . . 6 . . . . . 2 . . . . . .2 . . . . . 66.7
. . . C . . . . . .4 . . . . . 1 . . . . . .2 . . . . . 75.0
. . TE . . . . . .4 . . . . . 1 . . . . . .2 . . . . . 75.0
. . FB . . . . . .2 . . . . . 0 . . . . . .1 . . . . . 50.0

Subtotal . . .42 . . . . .20 . . . . . 15 . . . . .83.3 %

. . DE . . . . . . 6 . . . . .4 . . . . . .2 . . . . 100.0
. . DT . . . . . . 6 . . . . .4 . . . . . .1 . . . . .75.0
. . LB . . . . . .10 . . . . .7 . . . . . .3 . . . . 100.0
. . CB . . . . . ..6 . . . . .3 . . . . . .3 . . . . 100.0
. . .S . . . . . . .6 . . . . .3 . . . . . .3 . . . . 100.0

Subtotal . . .34 . . . . 21 . . . . 12 . . . . . 97.1 %

Total . . . . . 76 . . . . 41 . . . . .27 . . . . .89.5 %

Fiddy
12-26-2004, 10:36 PM
The 1st pick in the 2002 draft, David Carr, has completed 257 of 422 throws for 3268 yards (60.9%), with 14 tds, 12 picks for an 84.5 passer rating.

The 7th pick in the 2003 draft, Byron Leftwich, has completed 246 of 399 throws for 2757 yards (61.7%), with 15 tds, 8 picks for an 86.4 passer rating.

So basically our second year guy is outplaying your third year guy, who you drafted #1 overall.

To all Texans fans: HA!!!Carr: 14/20 for 139 yards and 1 TD with 2 INTs (one wasnt his fault)
Leftwich: 6/13 for 35 yards and 1 INT


Reggie Williams: 0 catches, 0 yards
D-Rob: 3 tackles, 1 forced fumble

TheOgre
10-05-2006, 01:27 PM
I was thinking about this old thread. Sometimes it is fun to go back and look at old discussions years later.

TEXANS84
10-05-2006, 03:18 PM
I think so. I'm loving that we can be the spoilers twice to Jacksonville.

BTW..nice post 2 spots before Mistril....I didn't read that before.
Casserly did address the trenches first.

Mu-hahaha! Wow, what was I thinking?

real
10-05-2006, 03:39 PM
eh.. the way I see it.. our offense is set to explode.. and our defense has nowhere to go but up. We are shaping up to have a top 10 defense for the next 5 years or so, the way we are looking now.. and with a couple defensive drafts under our belt.. ive have complete faith that we will also be an above average defensive team.


Yeah this thread is definitely good for some laughs....