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View Full Version : Now is Schaub the same mistake as Carr?!


Imatexanfan
03-29-2007, 08:26 PM
Okay....word is that Schaub has promise and may be a good QB. Wasn't the same thing said about Carr? If we start to see the same things happen to Schaub as happened to Carr then what? And if Carr goes on to be a pretty good QB somewhere and Schaub starts looking like Carr did as a Texan...I guess I am asking if it is a QB issue or is there more to it? O-Line maybe? :lightbulb:

The thing is that they've tried to fix the O-Line for 5 years now. They had Boseli and were burned by that SD signing. They have drafted high with several players leading to injury or busts. I believe we will continue to try to fill the spots through the draft but a solid FA signing would go a long way to improving thats what I am looking for. :elmo:

My biggest problem with the Texans is that they gave the QB starting job away with out any competition. Carr never competed for the job. If he would have had to prove his talent and work harder to earn it, we may not be having this discussion. Now we have given the starting QB to Schaub without him competing. What does that say to all the other players coming into camp?


Every position should be earned, not given away.

Do we really know he is who we think he is?

Most coaches want to see a person play for them and win the job before being named starting QB. Seriously guys, I just don't get it. :wild:

MATRIX
03-29-2007, 08:29 PM
Is he better than anyone on the roster...YES

Is he better than anyone we could of taken in the draft...Many NFL experts say YES

Is he an upgrade over Carr...90%(or more) say YES

Is he better than the guy every one wanted till we got him, Sage...ANY DAY

281
03-29-2007, 08:31 PM
Now is Schaub the same mistake as Carr?!

no.

playa465
03-29-2007, 08:35 PM
Only time will tell...I wonder how long will Schaub get if he falters this season

The Pencil Neck
03-29-2007, 08:36 PM
My biggest problem with the Texans is that they gave the QB starting job away with out any competition. Carr never competed for the job. If he would have had to prove his talent and work harder to earn it, we may not be having this discussion. Now we have given the starting QB to Schaub without him competing. What does that say to all the other players coming into camp?

Every position should be earned, not given away.

Do we really know he is who we think he is?

Most coaches want to see a person play for them and win the job before being named starting QB. Seriously guys, I just don't get it. :wild:

There are several differences.

1. If Schaub starts playing badly, there will be NO hesitation to pull him and start someone else. With Carr that was never an option. If he was playing bad, the idea was to let him play through it and that really hurt his maturation as a QB.

2. Whenever you have a big FA signing, they automatically have the starting job and have to really screw up in camp or on the field to lose it. That's exactly what we've got here. Schaub will have to screw this up to lose it.

I'm a big proponent of competition but you have to be realistic about it. AND, if Sage or one of the other QB's really looks better than Schaub, I think that Kubiak will choose the guy that gives him the best chance to win. And in the end, that's competition.

Please_Evolve
03-29-2007, 08:40 PM
*looks perplexed*

you really think between Sage, Van Pelt and Porter there would really be that much of a competition? ....... :joker:

281
03-29-2007, 08:41 PM
There are several differences.
AND, if Sage or one of the other QB's really looks better than Schaub, I think that Kubiak will choose the guy that gives him the best chance to win. And in the end, that's competition.

wrong.

Vinny
03-29-2007, 08:44 PM
I say start the guy who can do the most jumping jacks.

tsip
03-29-2007, 08:48 PM
First, Schaub didn't come out of college with a 'laundry list' of mechanics that needed to be corrected in order to be effective., like Carr.

Second, unlike David, all indications are that Matt is a team player and a 'positive' in the locker room. Carr was a 'loner' and a 'me first' player.

Third, Schaub will do the 'extra' work it takes to become a better player, including pre-game prep. Carr would not, even though he had about 6 months/yr w/family and the avg NFL career is less than 5yrs.

Fourth, Schaub is a leader, type of player his team mates will rally around.

Fifth, Schaub isn't being thrown into a 'fire.' He's had 3 yrs to get ready for this opportunity, so that is an advantage over Carr's situation.

Hopefully, Matt is a person that can admit his mistakes/learn from them/ and minimize them from happening over and over. Too, though, he needs to shut out those mistakes when they happen and move on--be aggressive and do what it takes to win.

Texans_Chick
03-29-2007, 08:50 PM
Okay....word is that Schaub has promise and may be a good QB. Wasn't the same thing said about Carr?

Here here!

I say we go out and draft someone that word says has no promise and may be a bad QB.

If you are playing a dice game, you gotta roll 'em.

shanden
03-29-2007, 09:00 PM
Well if Schaub is a mistake, it will not be for the same reasons Carr was.

Schaub has played in several NFL games, preseason, and had an established collegiate career, so there are some things that can be observed about his style, approach, and weakness.


Schaub is almost the antithesis of Carr in style and function:

He can read defenses at the line and generally is unflappable
He has a quick release, and accurate arm
He is noted for his pocket sense being able to feel pressure and shift slightly to maximize the protection or throwing lanes
He has good arm motion and mechanics so very few balls will be batted down
He reads through progressions efficiently
He is known for being a film student and having high initiative to embrace leadership
Is very competitive and wants to win


If he fails, it will not be for the reasons above. I'm rather excited to see what he does in the offense, where the playbook will not be paired down and audibles can be expected. While the offensive line is not great, I suspect he is able to elevate it by making it harder for defenses to read the play, create more weapons to defend for, and will have less odds of defenses surprising him.

As far as weaknesses known:
He has fumbled some balls when sacked
Does not have an arm like Cutler
May crumble under the pressure of a full season at the helm instead of shine at back up duty
May not be durable under the Oline and injury could hamper him

He is most often compared to Brady. If he is 80% the QB Brady is we are in very good shape.

clandestin
03-29-2007, 09:01 PM
Okay....word is that Schaub has promise and may be a good QB. Wasn't the same thing said about Carr?

Are you suggesting we should go after guys that are described as 'no upside and will probably be a really bad QB'?

Schaub is a prospect. That's what it ALWAYS takes to get a franchise QB. NO team trades a healthy franchise QB that is still in their prime. (note the words healthy and in their prime before countering please)

A team has three choices when it comes to acquiring a QB:

--get a proven, quality veteran who is up there in age (step 2: look for a prospect to replace them)
--get a young prospect the team thinks can be a franchise QB
--get a proven mediocre QB that you think *might* hold the fort down until the right prospect comes along.


That's it. Proven franchise QBs are unlike any other position in that they do not get traded and are not affected by the salary cap.

The colts, bengals, and patriots would all happily take two 1st round picks and two 2nd rounders for: dwight freeney, chad johnson, and richard seymour. If you tried to make that same trade for manning, palmer, or brady they'd laugh at you.

My point is that if a team is going to get a long-term pro-bowler at the QB position they're going to have to gamble. That gamble might be giving up a high pick on a rookie, picking up an injured guy that might not make it back, or taking a shot in the dark with a late round pick. In my assessment Schaub is worth the shot.

[EDIT: darn it that's what I get for writing a long post...TexansChick stole my take :)]

DocBar
03-29-2007, 09:17 PM
First, Schaub didn't come out of college with a 'laundry list' of mechanics that needed to be corrected in order to be effective., like Carr. Agreed
Second, unlike David, all indications are that Matt is a team player and a 'positive' in the locker room. Carr was a 'loner' and a 'me first' player.
That's been hinted at, but I wonder how much of that was Carr and how, much is the way he was treated by Dumb Capers. Regardless of effort, if you're the "teacher's pet", teammates WILL notice and take umbrage.
Third, Schaub will do the 'extra' work it takes to become a better player, including pre-game prep. Carr would not, even though he had about 6 months/yr w/family and the avg NFL career is less than 5yrs.
Schaub MAY do the "extra" work to prepare. We don't know until he strts playing. All indications are that he will, but don't just anoint him as the "Next Coming" of Joe Montana until he produces on the field.
Fourth, Schaub is a leader, type of player his team mates will rally around.
How do you know this? Unsubstantiated report of phone calls to teammates? Some teammates and socalled experts seemingly supporting him over Vick(undertones of Sage over Carr)? Here, again, people are making way too many assumptions. Until I see Schaub withstand some fierce passrushes and rally us to victory, I have no idea what kind of leader he'll be.

Fifth, Schaub isn't being thrown into a 'fire.' He's had 3 yrs to get ready for this opportunity, so that is an advantage over Carr's situation.
Schaub IS being thrown into the fire. Just like Kubiak was last year. A couple of regular season starts and being a standout preseason starter does NOT a seasoned veteran make. It's a whole different world when all the focus is on you. Any doubters that ALL the focus will be on Schaub? I guess he could ask AJ or MW what it's like. Or maybe he has Carr's # in his phone.

Hopefully, Matt is a person that can admit his mistakes/learn from them/ and minimize them from happening over and over. Too, though, he needs to shut out those mistakes when they happen and move on--be aggressive and do what it takes to win.
I say all this because 90% of what I've read on this board has been ridiculously supportive of Schaub. I'm not saying he won't be an upgrade over Carr(hard not to be), but NOBODY, I mean NOBODY knows what kind of player he will be. After Carr, does ANYONE merit automatic coronation as team savior? Not in my book. I've come to terms with Schaub deal and I want him to be the next Montana, but I have to see something on the field before I get all goo-goo eyed over his mere presence.

tsip
03-29-2007, 11:32 PM
[/B]
I say all this because 90% of what I've read on this board has been ridiculously supportive of Schaub. I'm not saying he won't be an upgrade over Carr(hard not to be), but NOBODY, I mean NOBODY knows what kind of player he will be. After Carr, does ANYONE merit automatic coronation as team savior? Not in my book. I've come to terms with Schaub deal and I want him to be the next Montana, but I have to see something on the field before I get all goo-goo eyed over his mere presence.

Regarding #4, there has been much in the press about Schaub and his team mates--one story told of how his team mates stood and waited on the side line as they cheered him...whenever he played.

...so what do you want, give Schaub negative 'rants?' Alot of posters on this board are 'happy' to have a 'little' ray of hope that we've got a real NFL QB--after 5 yrs, it's our 'kool-aid,' so either get use to it or 'whatever.'

You approach Matt any way you want, won't bother me a bit, but I'm kinda an independent thinker...

CarolinaTexan
03-29-2007, 11:38 PM
dude you say that carr showed promise and what not, and so does schaub. Dude, are you kidding me? That can be said for any nfl qb that has been drafted or traded for, why else would they be drafted or traded for? did anyone else laugh when they read that? thats like saying " carr looked like he may have been good, and schaub looks like he may be good, so he might end up being just as bad as carr" hahaha every unproven player is a gamble bro

NFLforher
03-29-2007, 11:39 PM
Here here!

I say we go out and draft someone that word says has no promise and may be a bad QB.

If you are playing a dice game, you gotta roll 'em.



Exactly. Nothing is written in stone.

I remember when there was a debate about who to take for the first pick, Peyton or Ryan?

Mr. White
03-29-2007, 11:58 PM
Wait.. Stop.. Do you mean to tell me no one checked to see if Schaubie has " it ". You must be able to see if he has IT or not. Oh, sorry.. I guess, I forgot ABC rule. Never mind.

Schaub isn't ABC. The Falcons knew that he'd be the most sought after free agent, so they locked him up.

I'll look for you on Carr's next board. You'll probably be the first one there.

:logo:

SamuraiSword
03-30-2007, 12:19 AM
:this: Okay....word is that Schaub has promise and may be a good QB. Wasn't the same thing said about Carr? If we start to see the same things happen to Schaub as happened to Carr then what? And if Carr goes on to be a pretty good QB somewhere and Schaub starts looking like Carr did as a Texan...I guess I am asking if it is a QB issue or is there more to it? O-Line maybe? :lightbulb:

The thing is that they've tried to fix the O-Line for 5 years now. They had Boseli and were burned by that SD signing. They have drafted high with several players leading to injury or busts. I believe we will continue to try to fill the spots through the draft but a solid FA signing would go a long way to improving thats what I am looking for. :elmo:

My biggest problem with the Texans is that they gave the QB starting job away with out any competition. Carr never competed for the job. If he would have had to prove his talent and work harder to earn it, we may not be having this discussion. Now we have given the starting QB to Schaub without him competing. What does that say to all the other players coming into camp?


Every position should be earned, not given away.

Do we really know he is who we think he is?

Most coaches want to see a person play for them and win the job before being named starting QB. Seriously guys, I just don't get it. :wild:

Are you still bitter that Carr was released and now a real QB is at the helm?

hadaad
03-30-2007, 12:25 AM
Here here!

I say we go out and draft someone that word says has no promise and may be a bad QB.

If you are playing a dice game, you gotta roll 'em.

Probably won't even have to pay him very much. Heck, I'll do it. EVERYONE says I suck.

Houston_Fanatic
03-30-2007, 12:37 AM
Now we have given the starting QB to Schaub without him competing. What does that say to all the other players coming into camp?


Every position should be earned, not given away.

Do we really know he is who we think he is?



The QB position is unique in that the entire offense pivots around them. That is why there is even the term "quarterback controversy" and it doesn't apply to any other position. Kubiak is smart to name him the starter and get him out on the field right off the bat leading his team so he can develop a rhythm with them and get comfortable with them.

Nobody will know who he is until the end of the season.

ATX
03-30-2007, 12:38 AM
The QB position is unique in that the entire offense pivots around them. That is why there is even the term "quarterback controversy" and it doesn't apply to any other position. Kubiak is smart to name him the starter and get him out on the field right off the bat leading his team so he can develop a rhythm with them and get comfortable with them.

Nobody will know who he is until the end of the season.

What he said....

Mr. White
03-30-2007, 12:54 AM
Schaub isn't ABC. The Falcons knew that he'd be the most sought after free agent, so they locked him up.

I'll look for you on Carr's next board. You'll probably be the first one there.

:logo:

Looks like I was on to something.

No. Now did you, and then said you would go to Carr MS board. No wonder they don't show Texan football in Austin.


What does ABC stand for? Sounds like you said something about him to me.

Call me out on the board the next time that you have something to say to me. This isn't really the way straight men talk with each other.Sorry you little ***. I just didn't didn't realize you were gay.

You're the one PMing other guys late at night. Don't even try to come over. I might be Dateline NBC.
LMAO... dateline eh.. sounds like a gay place. Go away little boy.

The Pencil Neck
03-30-2007, 01:06 AM
Wait.. Stop.. Do you mean to tell me no one checked to see if Schaubie has " it ". You must be able to see if he has IT or not. Oh, sorry.. I guess, I forgot ABC rule. Never mind.

From all reports, Schaub has "it".

2BCF
03-30-2007, 02:21 AM
Okay....word is that Schaub has promise and may be a good QB. Wasn't the same thing said about Carr? If we start to see the same things happen to Schaub as happened to Carr then what? And if Carr goes on to be a pretty good QB somewhere and Schaub starts looking like Carr did as a Texan...I guess I am asking if it is a QB issue or is there more to it? O-Line maybe? :lightbulb:

The thing is that they've tried to fix the O-Line for 5 years now. They had Boseli and were burned by that SD signing. They have drafted high with several players leading to injury or busts. I believe we will continue to try to fill the spots through the draft but a solid FA signing would go a long way to improving thats what I am looking for. :elmo:

My biggest problem with the Texans is that they gave the QB starting job away with out any competition. Carr never competed for the job. If he would have had to prove his talent and work harder to earn it, we may not be having this discussion. Now we have given the starting QB to Schaub without him competing. What does that say to all the other players coming into camp?


Every position should be earned, not given away.

Do we really know he is who we think he is?

Most coaches want to see a person play for them and win the job before being named starting QB. Seriously guys, I just don't get it. :wild:

Wow. Most useless post of the week.
Davey earned himself a one way ticket out of here due to his 5 years of incompetance.
Davey will never be as good as you think he is.

tsip
03-30-2007, 03:29 AM
Wait.. Stop.. Do you mean to tell me no one checked to see if Schaubie has " it ". You must be able to see if he has IT or not. Oh, sorry.. I guess, I forgot ABC rule. Never mind.

...sorry, Caddy, forgot to tell you-I checked-Schaub does have 'IT.'

But, by the way, how come nobody is knocking on your buddy's door--heard maybe no one wants him...what's up with that? Is he gonna play next year?

eric138
03-30-2007, 07:49 AM
It really doesn't matter who is better. If Schaub comes in and can't get it done/ I expect the staff to change their position quicker than 5 years. If we can do that then we are improved from the past.

Honestly though, he is better and will take us to the next level./

4Texans
03-30-2007, 08:06 AM
Schaub is not the same as Carr.

One thing though, I'll bet Kubiak doesn't hesitate to pull Schaub, and put Sage in if he feels Schaub isn't gettin' the job done in a game. I think that only happened once last year with Carr.

NATHANHALE
03-30-2007, 09:05 AM
tsip. Oh, I was unaware that no body wanted him. There are threads about this.. but I wouldn't go there if I was a Carr hater like yourself. You just believe what you want to believe. Not that I'm a betting man, ( lie ) but in this one case I will bet that Carr will sign next week. Seahawk or a Panther is the top two choices, but you didn't hear this from me.

That's right, as a back-up--wow--and that's if he impresses them--go David, strut your stuff...

Caddy, what happened-you said Carr was going to be here next yr, and you wanted to know if the haters were leaving the board...

...didn't happen the way you promised, so are you stayin' or leav'n?

DocBar
03-30-2007, 09:54 AM
Regarding #4, there has been much in the press about Schaub and his team mates--one story told of how his team mates stood and waited on the side line as they cheered him...whenever he played.

...so what do you want, give Schaub negative 'rants?' Alot of posters on this board are 'happy' to have a 'little' ray of hope that we've got a real NFL QB--after 5 yrs, it's our 'kool-aid,' so either get use to it or 'whatever.'

You approach Matt any way you want, won't bother me a bit, but I'm kinda an independent thinker...
I'm pretty happy now with Schaub. The point I'm trying to make is that we just simply don't know what kind of player or leader he'll be.

NFLforher
03-30-2007, 10:06 AM
...sorry, Caddy, forgot to tell you-I checked-Schaub does have 'IT.'

But, by the way, how come nobody is knocking on your buddy's door--heard maybe no one wants him...what's up with that? Is he gonna play next year?

Can't hear the knocking, can ya?

:elmo:

Mr. White
03-30-2007, 10:10 AM
Well, now you are sure that he's a back-up making millions and you're looking down your nose at him. Pompous way of looking at things that are unknown. Gee, didn't notice me leaving the Texans.. have ya. Now we will see if your Carr crying, will hold water. As for me.. I think that Carr is and will be a Quarterback that I would proud to meet. You haters, are just Boo-Hoo boys. :texan:

I'd be surprised if Carr doesn't have a restraining order against you.

petedy
03-30-2007, 10:24 AM
First and foremost Carr is no longer on the team but Schaub is and he hasn't even thrown a pass or did a hand off yet.To make any judgement about him is way to early.I would give it a year or two because he is going to need some
time to adjust to a new team and coach.Please don't do to him what some of you have done to Carr.There is still a lot of needs to be filled on this team and I don't expect much from them at this pointbut for whatever reason I can't get myself to trust Kubiak or Smith.I get the feeling it anything goes wrong they'll be pointing a finger at anyone but themselves.I am not saying I'm right but just a feeling I have.

The Pencil Neck
03-30-2007, 10:54 AM
but in this one case I will bet that Carr will sign next week. Seahawk or a Panther is the top two choices, but you didn't hear this from me.

Yeah, we heard this from ESPN and it's been all over the board the past few days.

Schaub_to AJ_YES!
03-30-2007, 11:21 AM
Schaub will expose the failure that is David Carr over the 1st few weeks.

1. The myth of the bad OL will be crushed.
2. Passes will be completed thru the air of more than 10 yards.
3. For the 1st time in history there will be 20+ TD passes.


There's more but you get the picture.

NATHANHALE
03-30-2007, 12:44 PM
Well, now you are sure that he's a back-up making millions and you're looking down your nose at him. Pompous way of looking at things that are unknown. Gee, didn't notice me leaving the Texans.. have ya. Now we will see if your Carr crying, will hold water. As for me.. I think that Carr is and will be a Quarterback that I would proud to meet. You haters, are just Boo-Hoo boys. :texan:

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/NFL_SC-RUMOR

Specnatz
03-30-2007, 01:19 PM
Well, now you are sure that he's a back-up making millions and you're looking down your nose at him. Pompous way of looking at things that are unknown. Gee, didn't notice me leaving the Texans.. have ya. Now we will see if your Carr crying, will hold water. As for me.. I think that Carr is and will be a Quarterback that I would proud to meet. You haters, are just Boo-Hoo boys. :texan:

Between second honeymoon hating more than anyone else and now this dribble. I seriously think some really need to seek professional help. Prozac might do wonders for y'all. Some of us are not haters but are glad that Carr is gone, sorry it did not work out but oh well that is touch cookie, chit happens.

What is it about this guy that has so many people freakin the fek out about him being gone. He will sign else where and you can take all these stupid moronic threads and shove them. I could careless where he goes, all I care about is who the Texans are drafting and then I will look for June 1st to see who they might cut and or sign.

:hunter: :deadhorse Sometimes I wish someone would beat the guy who is beating the dead horse.

UTVinceYoung
04-14-2007, 08:41 AM
Is he better than anyone on the roster...YES

Is he better than anyone we could of taken in the draft...Many NFL experts say YES

Is he an upgrade over Carr...90%(or more) say YES

Is he better than the guy every one wanted till we got him, Sage...ANY DAY

that is just YOUR opinion. David Carr is in fact a great quarterback but never had a great o-line. I think he will do great with the Panthers. I know some of you don't want him to do great with with Panthers because that will mean more people laughing at you for letting him go.

Scooter
04-14-2007, 10:35 AM
that is just YOUR opinion. David Carr is in fact a great quarterback but never had a great o-line. I think he will do great with the Panthers. I know some of you don't want him to do great with with Panthers because that will mean more people laughing at you for letting him go.

i'm likely the most critical person on this and any previous forum on offensive lines, and you'll never convince me that the offensive line was solely responsible for carr's failures. carr's failures are because of coaching, or lack there of. i've said it before, carr's jersey needed to come with a "do not open until 2004" label on it. it's career suicide to try to quarterback an expansion team ... and being a rookie with no coaching only made it worse. sure our line was horrid and that's carr's shell shock, but he didnt improve when they improved. when the line got better, it was painfully obvious that carr was getting worse.

a great analogy that i heard was a man that took for granted a left turn light when driving. he assumed naturally that it was clear when it wasnt and got into a bad wreck. now, everytime he hits that light he's annoyingly cautious, but is totally comfortable with the same turn at any other light. carr is afraid of that light (the texans) ... he's got all the tools but was not and would never be comfortable here. he's at a different light (carolina) and that fear and shell shock will hopefully disappear and with any luck will become the quarterback that he should've been.

schaub isnt in the same spot as carr. schaub is coming into a strong and experienced coaching staff with a much improved offensive line and a MUCH more refined and consistant offensive scheme. schaub also has a couple years familiarizing himself with the speed and terminology of the NFL ... something carr never had. they're the same in many ways as a quarterback, but the situation and how they got there are night and day.

Vinny
04-14-2007, 10:42 AM
that is just YOUR opinion. David Carr is in fact a great quarterback but never had a great o-line. I think he will do great with the Panthers. I know some of you don't want him to do great with with Panthers because that will mean more people laughing at you for letting him go.
holding a clipboard isn't that hard. :pirate:

TD
04-14-2007, 11:40 AM
holding a clipboard isn't that hard. :pirate:

Signed - Matt Schaub

I don't know what to expect here, but I'm hoping Schaub and Carr are now in the right roles.

FWIW - I doubt Carr is holding a clipboard in Carolina for long. Delhomme has never really impressed me.

Vinny
04-14-2007, 11:48 AM
FWIW - I doubt Carr is holding a clipboard in Carolina for long. Delhomme has never really impressed me.
I'm the exact opposite as you. Delhomme is ten times the QB that Carr is even though he doesn't have Carr's body. Delhomme was producing around 30TD's a year when he wasn't hurt and didn't have other teammates out. Carr has never been productive despite his god given body that seems ideal for QB. Carr doesn't have what Delhomme has upstairs.

Schaub couldn't help where he was drafted and couldn't help that the Falcons starting QB makes more money than any player in the NFL (who's gonna bench that?) All I know is teams wanted to give picks for Schaub and Carr had to go find a back up job since nobody looked at him as a starter in the NFL.

Kaiser Toro
04-14-2007, 11:58 AM
Austin Powers: Only two things scare me and one of them is nuclear war.
Basil Exposition: What's the other?
Austin Powers: Excuse me?
Basil Exposition: What's the other thing that scares you?
Austin Powers: David Carrnies. Fresno folk. Virtual nomads, you know. Smell like Carrbage. Small hands.

TD
04-14-2007, 01:21 PM
I'm the exact opposite as you. Delhomme is ten times the QB that Carr is even though he doesn't have Carr's body. Delhomme was producing around 30TD's a year when he wasn't hurt and didn't have other teammates out. Carr has never been productive despite his god given body that seems ideal for QB. Carr doesn't have what Delhomme has upstairs.

Schaub couldn't help where he was drafted and couldn't help that the Falcons starting QB makes more money than any player in the NFL (who's gonna bench that?) All I know is teams wanted to give picks for Schaub and Carr had to go find a back up job since nobody looked at him as a starter in the NFL.

I don't know about exact opposite. I rarely comment on Carr, because I've only seen him play a few times, (aren't there enough people who don't see the games giving expert opinion?), so I honestly have no idea if his problems were him or the offensive line. The only reason I think he'll get a chance in Carolina is because of the major disappointment in last year's season and I expect Delhomme to be on a short leash. Whether Carr can produce given the opportunity is anyone's guess.

I've never seen Schaub, so to me he's a complete unknown. I just don't have a warm fuzzy about him starting, although I've got nothing to back it up. Just a residual effect of being burned in the past I guess.

I bought NFL Ticket this year, so maybe I'll be able to see what you do soon enough.

Vinny
04-14-2007, 01:25 PM
You're right...jury is out on everything. I don't think any of us can claim to have an expert take on Schaub on one good game against the Pats when he passed for 3 TD's, but in 75 starts Carr only threw 3 TD's less than 5 times in his carrer (I'm thinking 2 or 3 times off the top of my head).

Double Barrel
04-14-2007, 01:29 PM
Delhomme has played and won in big games (playoffs), so that right there gives him a leg up over Carr.

It will be very interesting to see how things develop in Carolina, especially if the national perception is that none of the problems were Carr's fault. Panther fans might end up getting what they wished for, and the old saying about be careful what you wish for because it might come true immediately comes to mind.

I will say, though, that the Panthers are my NFC team to follow this year. I have no predictions, but I will root for them. I'd like to see DC succeed just because he was an original Texan and one heckuva' nice guy.

TD
04-14-2007, 01:40 PM
Delhomme has played and won in big games (playoffs), so that right there gives him a leg up over Carr.

I went back and looked at his stats including the SB and you're right, he has produced better than I remembered. (I watched almost zero football in 2003; his best year). Still...given the "what have you done for me lately" mentality, if he doesn't get off to a good start, I think we'll see Carr (however briefly) sooner rather than later.

HJam72
04-14-2007, 04:41 PM
My opinion....Carolina's got two QBs with a LOT of potential, but they could still have a problem.

cuppacoffee
04-15-2007, 01:26 PM
"I will say, though, that the Panthers are my NFC team to follow this year. I have no predictions, but I will root for them. I'd like to see DC succeed just because he was an original Texan and one heckuva' nice guy."

DB has the right approach. IMHO

I wish all the posters on here would take this approach.

The Carr apologists ( I'm one ) will now need to switch their allegiance ( I have) to Matt Schaub.

There is no football rule that says you can't wish well for a former player.

Carr failing or succeeding will in no way define me, or anyone else on this MB.


:coffee:

TD
04-15-2007, 04:15 PM
Carr failing or succeeding will in no way define me, or anyone else on this MB.

Unfortunately it will define the Texans.

They'll be either:

a) the bumbling organization that gave a big bonus to a player with no talent and had to waive; or

b) the bumbling organization that waived a talented quarterback after paying a big bonus to keep him while not addressing the real problems; or

c) the organization looks like geniuses because....... because..... **sigh** :gun:

Honoring Earl 34
04-15-2007, 04:35 PM
I think that until the Texans win they'll be the punchline to jokes .

Just like in "Coward of the County" ... the Texans must take actions into their own hands . :bat:

I can imagine the Texans going 11-5 and all the ESPN guys going ... I knew Mario was the right pick and so on .

FirstTexansFan
04-15-2007, 06:56 PM
Therein lies the key, wins are the only solution for the reputation the Texans now brandish. Same holds true for David Carr and his future, win and all will be forgotten for both parties. I came to the conclusion much later than many, but it was past the time for Mr. Carr to move on to other pastures. With that said, lets move on as fans :)

HoustonFrog
04-15-2007, 10:18 PM
I don't get alot of the arguments. Obviously Carr didn't succeed here. The NFL is a wasteland for QBs or high drafted players who didn't. I've never understood why people are so high on Carr yet never gave Couch the same benefit. Expansion, bad front office, line that got hurt and fell apart. They both had almost exact stats and failed. Yet people give Carr this free ticket while Couch is out of the league. There is an easy answer that makes alot of people happy...we move on without the question marks and improve and Carr does well as a backup and eventual player. If he doesn't, no loss. The fact of the matter is that most teams in NFL history haven't waited 5 years for a guy to learn basic QB skills. If he learns elsewhere, so be it. I'm not going to lie and say that I have been a huge Carr fan the last 2 years(I started that way) but I just think there is an attitude in some guys. I always read where Jordan, Montana, etc, etc..winners were competetive in everything from their sport to ping-pong. To me Carr is content to be the good guy who just smiles and deals with it. Good guy but I want the fire. I wanted to see pissed off guy. As fans overall though, the question should be "who is Carr" if we are winning games.

Honoring Earl 34
04-15-2007, 10:30 PM
Vince Lombardi once said ... winning is'nt everything but the will to win is .

If you're wet match does'nt have it ... why should anyone put forth the kind of effort that it takes to be good .

If a player plays on a bad team and settles for it then he'll always be just ok .

76Texan
04-16-2007, 03:41 PM
You're right...jury is out on everything. I don't think any of us can claim to have an expert take on Schaub on one good game against the Pats when he passed for 3 TD's, but in 75 starts Carr only threw 3 TD's less than 5 times in his carrer (I'm thinking 2 or 3 times off the top of my head).

Did you watch the game?
Do you know who were on the field that day?

Vinny
04-16-2007, 03:52 PM
Did you watch the game?
Do you know who were on the field that day?yeah, I did...I watch more football than anyone I know. Not saying that's a good thing...but it's a thing.

Texan_Bill
04-16-2007, 04:08 PM
I don't get alot of the arguments. Obviously Carr didn't succeed here. The NFL is a wasteland for QBs or high drafted players who didn't. I've never understood why people are so high on Carr yet never gave Couch the same benefit. Expansion, bad front office, line that got hurt and fell apart. They both had almost exact stats and failed. Yet people give Carr this free ticket while Couch is out of the league. There is an easy answer that makes alot of people happy...we move on without the question marks and improve and Carr does well as a backup and eventual player. If he doesn't, no loss. The fact of the matter is that most teams in NFL history haven't waited 5 years for a guy to learn basic QB skills. If he learns elsewhere, so be it. I'm not going to lie and say that I have been a huge Carr fan the last 2 years(I started that way) but I just think there is an attitude in some guys. I always read where Jordan, Montana, etc, etc..winners were competetive in everything from their sport to ping-pong. To me Carr is content to be the good guy who just smiles and deals with it. Good guy but I want the fire. I wanted to see pissed off guy. As fans overall though, the question should be "who is Carr" if we are winning games.

Funny to make the comparisons between Carr and Couch... Because the one constant between the two----------> Chris Palmer

infantrycak
04-16-2007, 04:16 PM
Did you watch the game?
Do you know who were on the field that day?

Even if you didn't see the game you can tell it was the starters:

1st TD--13:28 in the 2nd
followed up by two FG drives in 2nd
2nd TD--14:29 in 4th
3rd TD--3:57 in 4th with pass for 2 pt conversion to tie the game

NE wasn't playing scrubs or a prevent down one score to begin the 4th quarter.

Goldensilence
04-16-2007, 05:25 PM
I don't get alot of the arguments. Obviously Carr didn't succeed here. The NFL is a wasteland for QBs or high drafted players who didn't. I've never understood why people are so high on Carr yet never gave Couch the same benefit. Expansion, bad front office, line that got hurt and fell apart. They both had almost exact stats and failed. Yet people give Carr this free ticket while Couch is out of the league. There is an easy answer that makes alot of people happy...we move on without the question marks and improve and Carr does well as a backup and eventual player. If he doesn't, no loss. The fact of the matter is that most teams in NFL history haven't waited 5 years for a guy to learn basic QB skills. If he learns elsewhere, so be it. I'm not going to lie and say that I have been a huge Carr fan the last 2 years(I started that way) but I just think there is an attitude in some guys. I always read where Jordan, Montana, etc, etc..winners were competetive in everything from their sport to ping-pong. To me Carr is content to be the good guy who just smiles and deals with it. Good guy but I want the fire. I wanted to see pissed off guy. As fans overall though, the question should be "who is Carr" if we are winning games.

Never thought about it really. Good comparison though.

I think both kind of got shafted by their respective situations. I will add on what someone else said about the Chris Palmer factor. Seemed kinda Charlie-esque. Forget about adapting toa QB's strengths and helping him grow. Throw a 400 page book of plays at him and try and out scheme opposing Defenses with a rookie QB is a loosing Combo. Add that to Butch Davis being the man in Cleveland and you got a VERY similiar situation to ours. Not sure Charlie Frye is the guy either...but this is a make or break Year for Crennel there.

IMO Frog it's David's Arm and atheltic ability that make him more appealing as a QB then Couch. Also i don't think you need to come stomping out of the dressing room after loosing a game to show you competive streak as a player or coach. Guys like Marvin Harrison go to show you don't have to blow up after everything...to show you aren't going out there to win every game. AJ to me has that same attitude. The others are always great for a quote though.

76Texan
04-16-2007, 06:27 PM
Even if you didn't see the game you can tell it was the starters:

1st TD--13:28 in the 2nd
followed up by two FG drives in 2nd
2nd TD--14:29 in 4th
3rd TD--3:57 in 4th with pass for 2 pt conversion to tie the game

NE wasn't playing scrubs or a prevent down one score to begin the 4th quarter.Who were the starters for both teams (and on both sides of the ball)?
Did you see the injury report, and the missing starters for the Pats?

Vinny
04-16-2007, 06:29 PM
Who were the starters for both teams (and on both sides of the ball)?
Did you see the injury report, and the missing starters for the Pats?

can you get to your point or is this some cryptic way of having other folks find your message piecemeal? Are you saying that Schaub wasn't impressive that day or are you saying that he was, but he shouldn't get any credit for it...or what?

76Texan
04-16-2007, 06:35 PM
can you get to your point or is this some cryptic way of having other folks find your message piecemeal? Are you saying that Schaub wasn't impressive that day or are you saying that he was, but he shouldn't get any credit for it...or what?

A good game by Schaub alrite, but if the other team was missing many players (while the Falcons only have Vicks out), it takes away some credit from Schaub.

Vinny
04-16-2007, 06:37 PM
A good game by Schaub alrite, but if the other team was missing many players (while the Falcons only have Vicks out), it takes away some credit from Schaub.
It was week 5 of the NFL schedule...the Pats weren't sitting their starters.

76Texan
04-16-2007, 06:44 PM
It was week 5 of the NFL schedule...the Pats weren't sitting their starters.
Harrison was out for the season.

And here's the injury report:
http://patriots.scout.com/2/449880.html

Seymour and Bruschi were out. And that's only on the defensive side.

Honoring Earl 34
04-16-2007, 06:47 PM
Harrison was out for the season.

And here's the injury report:
http://patriots.scout.com/2/449880.html

Seymour and Bruschi were out. And that's only on the defensive side.

Well hell if Harrison a great pass defender was'nt there then anybody could have thrown for 300 yds .

Except for Trent Green when he was with the Rams cause Rodney took out his knee .

76Texan
04-16-2007, 06:51 PM
Well hell if Harrison a great pass defender was'nt there then anybody could have thrown for 300 yds .

Except for Trent Green when he was with the Rams cause Rodney took out his knee .

Do you feel confident with Gus Scott starting at safety?

Vinny
04-16-2007, 07:00 PM
Harrison was out for the season.

And here's the injury report:
http://patriots.scout.com/2/449880.html

Seymour and Bruschi were out. And that's only on the defensive side.We all know that the Patriots can't win without their stars....we may have to send Schaub back.

76Texan
04-16-2007, 07:13 PM
We all know that the Patriots can't win without their stars....we may have to send Schaub back.
If you looked back at that stretch, the Pats did not play well without some starters and a few other players banged up. They went 4-4 to start the year, win the next 2 by 7, lost the 11th game.

It's just hard to sustain a long list of injury over a period of time.
Why the need for sarcasm? :confused:

Vinny
04-16-2007, 07:32 PM
If you looked back at that stretch, the Pats did not play well without some starters and a few other players banged up. They went 4-4 to start the year, win the next 2 by 7, lost the 11th game.

It's just hard to sustain a long list of injury over a period of time.
Why the need for sarcasm? :confused:
I'm kinda sarcastic when I get impatient. hmmm, actually, I'm kind of sarcastic when I'm not impatient. On second thought, I don't remember when I wasn't impatient....I just find your commentary as nit picky actually. It's not like Schaub ordered up injuries to Vick and then scheduled the most injured team he could find. He matched Brady TD for TD and the Pats won in a shootout. It's not like he faced the jr varsity. My original point was that none of us have any real insight on one game....I still can't figure out what you are arguing against.

76Texan
04-16-2007, 07:36 PM
I'm kinda sarcastic when I get impatient. hmmm, actually, I'm kind of sarcastic when I'm not impatient. On second thought, I don't remember when I wasn't impatient....I just find your commentary as nit picky actually. It's not like Schaub ordered up injuries to Vick and then scheduled the most injured team he could find. He matched Brady TD for TD and the Pats won in a shootout. It's not like he faced the jr varsity. My original point was that none of us have any real insight on one game....I still can't figure out what you are arguing against.
All the facts are out.
I would respect everybody's opinions.

hollywood_texan
04-17-2007, 12:05 PM
I am skeptical of the Schuab deal.

I thought the best course of action was to either cut Carr or give him one more year. Reinvesting heavily into another QB just didn't seem prudent considering the team is heading in a decent direction despite Carr's shortcomings.

Now, the Texans have a for sure starter for 2 years at a minimum. In addition, if Schuab doesn't pan out, the Texans are really going to look like idiots.

Kubiak/Smith are swinging for the fence on this one and that really wasn't required at this point in time.

Maybe Schuab is the real deal and can carry the offense and the team in general.

We'll just see...

infantrycak
04-17-2007, 12:29 PM
I am skeptical of the Schuab deal.

Quick, name something Texans related you haven't been skeptical about. j/k

HoustonFrog
04-17-2007, 12:37 PM
Never thought about it really. Good comparison though.

I think both kind of got shafted by their respective situations. I will add on what someone else said about the Chris Palmer factor. Seemed kinda Charlie-esque. Forget about adapting toa QB's strengths and helping him grow. Throw a 400 page book of plays at him and try and out scheme opposing Defenses with a rookie QB is a loosing Combo. Add that to Butch Davis being the man in Cleveland and you got a VERY similiar situation to ours. Not sure Charlie Frye is the guy either...but this is a make or break Year for Crennel there.

IMO Frog it's David's Arm and atheltic ability that make him more appealing as a QB then Couch. Also i don't think you need to come stomping out of the dressing room after loosing a game to show you competive streak as a player or coach. Guys like Marvin Harrison go to show you don't have to blow up after everything...to show you aren't going out there to win every game. AJ to me has that same attitude. The others are always great for a quote though.

You may be right I just wanted to point out, and you went farther with it, that Couch had almost and identical situation gone bad and didn't get the benefit of the doubt. You might even add that they were both college players that were the product of their system...Fresno and Kentucky.

As for the stomping mad. I don't need to see a guy freak out. I just want to see some days where he is "no comment" or "I don't want to talk about the game today." I didn't want to see Smiley the Clown making some jokes and telling me everything would be alright every week. Guys like Marvin Harrison are all business and I know he is ready because he goes through his routine with Manning every game.

Good points though.

Specnatz
04-17-2007, 12:39 PM
I am skeptical of the Schuab deal.

I thought the best course of action was to either cut Carr or give him one more year. Reinvesting heavily into another QB just didn't seem prudent considering the team is heading in a decent direction despite Carr's shortcomings.

Now, the Texans have a for sure starter for 2 years at a minimum. In addition, if Schuab doesn't pan out, the Texans are really going to look like idiots.

Kubiak/Smith are swinging for the fence on this one and that really wasn't required at this point in time.

Maybe Schuab is the real deal and can carry the offense and the team in general.

We'll just see...


This the key phrase you said. This is no way to go about trying to putting a consistant winner on the field and moving towards the playoffs.

hollywood_texan
04-17-2007, 01:58 PM
Quick, name something Texans related you haven't been skeptical about. j/k
I can always expect cold beer at Reliant! I am never skeptical about that.

Give me a break, it's the easiest thing to do as a Texans fan right now considering the circumstances.

One season can change that though or even one player. Hmmm.... Schuab????

We'll see what happens with this Schuab deal. Most highly-touted QBs don't pan out, it's just how it works.

Don't you agree the Schuab deal is swinging for the fence? If it doesn't work out, you go down that road of a day late, a dollar short. I won't even bring up the guy's name!

The Texans could have still improved by cutting Carr and letting the QB situation maybe work itself out without making a huge initial investment.

infantrycak
04-17-2007, 02:31 PM
Don't you agree the Schuab deal is swinging for the fence?

Significant?--sure. Swinging for the fence implying make or break--not at all. This wasn't near as momentous or costly as trading for Vick or Eli Manning. I'd bet all 32 GM's and head coaches would agree Schaub is a better prospect than anyone who could have been had in the 2nd this year, so basically you gave up an extra 2nd (next year, which has the value of a 3rd round pick this year) for a QB who uniquely fits your system since he has played in it for the last 7 years and is already used to playing against NFL quality players. The contract is well structured so it is only expensive if he is the real deal.

The Texans could have still improved by cutting Carr and letting the QB situation maybe work itself out without making a huge initial investment.

I don't see the investment as huge, but in any event, yes the Texans could have improved playing Rosenfels instead of Schaub but IMO not near as much as with Schaub. Meadowlark Lemon could have been the backup last year and he might have been an improvement on Carr--doesn't mean starting him was a good plan.

hollywood_texan
04-17-2007, 02:38 PM
Significant?--sure. Swinging for the fence implying make or break--not at all. This wasn't near as momentous or costly as trading for Vick or Eli Manning. I'd bet all 32 GM's and head coaches would agree Schaub is a better prospect than anyone who could have been had in the 2nd this year, so basically you gave up an extra 2nd (next year, which has the value of a 3rd round pick this year) for a QB who uniquely fits your system since he has played in it for the last 7 years and is already used to playing against NFL quality players. The contract is well structured so it is only expensive if he is the real deal.



I don't see the investment as huge, but in any event, yes the Texans could have improved playing Rosenfels instead of Schaub but IMO not near as much as with Schaub. Meadowlark Lemon could have been the backup last year and he might have been an improvement on Carr--doesn't mean starting him was a good plan.
Very good points!

My preference would have been a little more flexibility into next year.

If Schuab pans out, he will be a steal!

We'll see....

76Texan
04-17-2007, 05:43 PM
I'm not down on the Schaub move, but he remains unproven. And we have to pay a bit much for the risk. $7M signing bonus. If we use Keith's salary cap figure, Schaub's 1st year base salary is $1M. So if we cut him after one year, that would be $8M out of pocket. His 2nd yr base salary is $5M, so after 2 years that would be $13M total out of pocket.

And the Bucs signed Garcia for 2 year contract worth $7M.
With incentive, mainly to lead the Bucs to the play-off both years, the total deal is $14.5M.

Why can't we sign Garcia and keep both draft choices as well as our #8 position (the difference of 2 spots worth 100 pts on the nfl draft value board, which equates to the #100 pick in this draft - coincidentally.)

We can use our #40 to draft a guy like Kolb.
IMO, I rate Kolb around #47. Read that Kolb is now a solid #2 on most boards and that the Sporting News even has him at #27 (Houston Chronicle).
The Chronicle also reports that Kubiak will be talking to Kolb this week (and there's no time limit as far as how long the meeting may last.)

That's just my thoughts.
But of course, Schaub is here, and I will support him 100%.
Hopefully, the Texans improve enough to give him help, and maybe we can see 8-9 wins this year.

hollywood_texan
04-17-2007, 05:56 PM
The Chronicle also reports that Kubiak will be talking to Kolb this week (and there's no time limit as far as how long the meeting may last.)


The Texans also met with VY last year. They actually went to VY's Pro Day (McNair and Kubiak) instead of Mario Williams, which was the same day.

My point is, this is probably just out of being nice to a hometown boy

76Texan
04-17-2007, 06:15 PM
The Texans also met with VY last year. They actually went to VY's Pro Day (McNair and Kubiak) instead of Mario Williams, which was the same day.

My point is, this is probably just out of being nice to a hometown boy

Most probably!

Kubiak only said that "you never know what may happen down the road", so it's unlikely that they would do anything now.

Unless we see the Texans trade down from #10 to reacquire another 2nd rounder???