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AlbinoRat
03-29-2007, 03:29 PM
Before you freak out, I have to do a current event paper from 2006, and I chose the Texans passing on reggie as my topic, because i can. I'm supposed to show both sides of the arguement and i figured who would know better than us.

Simply tell me if you think it was the right pick and if you feel like it, why.
Thanks for the help.

MATRIX
03-29-2007, 03:33 PM
Yes, it was.

Why: Because we didn't take Reggie. So, we will only ever know what Mario will do for this team.

AlbinoRat
03-29-2007, 03:45 PM
I mean more along the lines of, did it fill the big need. Without a doubt, Bush is the greatest player in College in the past decade, but was it the right thing to do, getting help on the defensive line and trying to help a weak defense? Things like that.

Ole Miss Texan
03-29-2007, 03:48 PM
I do think it was the right choice.

here are a few points you can write about when referencing mario.

-Mario is a phenominal athlete: 6' 7", 295 lbs, ran a 4.7, 10' broad jump, 40.5" vertical jump, 35 reps on the 225lb bench....simply amazing.

-one reason why people are so up in arms over the pick is because they simply don't know who he is, simple as that...oh and that he's a defensive player...offense players always get more hype. He played at NC ST. not UT or USC.

-Rated as the #1 defensive Player in the entire draft. while most teams had RB rated #1 overall, it has been rumored that 9 teams in the NFL had Mario Williams as #1 on their board. Parcells from Dallas has talked about this.

-Houston had David Carr QB #1 overall pick in the 2002 draft. gave him a 3 year extension and an $8 million signing bonus.

-New head coack Gary kubiak and asst. coach Mike sherman were brought in to change the team...they are implementing new schemes, esp the offensive line w/ a new ZBS that the old regime "touched" on. in this scheme you need a RB that can be patient, wait for the hole to open in the line, take 1 cut and take it to the next level. Reggie Bush is not that kind of runner but excels at making plays when he's in the open field. the staff imo felt they didn't need to spend the #1 overall on that type of back but have others that can fit the scheme for cheaper.

-The defense on the Texans was worse than the offense which people overlook. The overall D was ranked either 31 or 32 in defense in the entire league. Dunta Robinson was the only player worth anything. Texans had a bad Dline and never put consistent pressure on the opposing QB. something we're still working on but it takes time when rebuilding a team.

Mario was a good long term decision. He isn't the sack specialist people want in a DE, but he's better than alot and Superb against the run...yadda yadda.

there's some that may or may not help you out. i think the VY and RB arguments would be pretty easy to make. so i won't talk about that.

JCTexan
03-29-2007, 03:53 PM
Before you freak out, I have to do a current event paper from 2006, and I chose the Texans passing on reggie as my topic, because i can. I'm supposed to show both sides of the arguement and i figured who would know better than us.

Simply tell me if you think it was the right pick and if you feel like it, why.
Thanks for the help.

I believe it was the right move. Mario is going to be a freak for us at DE, whereas Reggie would be in a crowded backfield with Danye, Green, Taylor and Lundy. I still think we need another DE, but I believe we're set at runningback. :poker:

jopatmc
03-29-2007, 03:53 PM
Before you freak out, I have to do a current event paper from 2006, and I chose the Texans passing on reggie as my topic, because i can. I'm supposed to show both sides of the arguement and i figured who would know better than us.

Simply tell me if you think it was the right pick and if you feel like it, why.
Thanks for the help.

Why would you not choose the Texans passing on Vince? It would be much easier to write.

EZ_Goin
03-29-2007, 03:54 PM
You need to at least mention the fact it is way too early to determine if it was the correct pick or not. No one will really have a good idea for a few years if not more.

Ole Miss Texan
03-29-2007, 03:59 PM
You need to at least mention the fact it is way too early to determine if it was the correct pick or not. No one will really have a good idea for a few years if not more.

That's a good point. You probably want to think of it as last year...we didn't know what was going to happen even during the 2006 season. just where our team was at april 28, 2006.

also think of this as a long term question. i believe the FO though mario was a good long term answer...that he could probably play longer and contribute more long term...at just as high a level if not more than any other player.

noxiousdog
03-29-2007, 04:43 PM
I mean more along the lines of, did it fill the big need. Without a doubt, Bush is the greatest player in College in the past decade, but was it the right thing to do, getting help on the defensive line and trying to help a weak defense? Things like that.

How can you be the greatest player if you're taken off the field in a cruicial situation?

El Amigo Invisible
03-29-2007, 05:03 PM
I would still take Mario Williams

DontTreadOnMe
03-29-2007, 05:07 PM
in my opinion it was the correct pick.. because why pay a 'decoy' top notch money??... and mario is a super freak. If reggie loses a step, what will he amount to??.. not very much in my eyes.

blockhead83
03-29-2007, 05:10 PM
It was the right move because:
- Reggie's a jack of all trades. Good at everything, but not great at anything in the NFL. As a pro back you need to be able to pound it between the tackles and wear teams down, and I doubt with his frame and playing style that his body will be able to handle that abuse as the primary back for an entire season. Last season he showed that he could run between the tackles, but not very well, and the majority of his big plays came when he relieved Deuce and bounced it outside. When Deuce is gone, he won't have the luxury of doing that as often. Why use the most valuable pick in the whole draft on a player who is best used in a situational manner? You're not maximizing the value of the pick if the player doesn't have a constant impact.

- Mario can be the anchor for our entire D. He can stop the run, he can rush the passer, and he can make those around him better. Teams will have to account for him on every down.

- On the topic of maximizing the value of the pick again, what's the NFL average career length for a RB? Like 5 years? DE's play longer careers. We're getting better value from the choice if we get more years out of the player.

- Like said above, Reggie wasn't in the Nat'l Championship game in the most important play, at his coaches discretion. If Reggie's the most valuable player in the draft class, why isn't he good enough for the coach to atleast want him on the field during the most important play of that years college football season?

real
03-29-2007, 05:13 PM
No it wasn't the right pick.

YellerLotYeller
03-29-2007, 05:13 PM
Yes and I dont feel like it...really its just because I cant change what happened and I dont hold grudges like a woman.

**Don't forget to reference me.

jlam
03-29-2007, 06:00 PM
I believe it was the right move. Mario is going to be a freak for us at DE, whereas Reggie would be in a crowded backfield with Danye, Green, Taylor and Lundy. I still think we need another DE, but I believe we're set at runningback. :poker:

I'm not going to sit here and tell you guys the pick was wrong, because obviously my opinion would be seen as biased. However, if you are going to argue that Mario was the correct pick (which he may very well prove to be), please don't use the "crowded backfield" excuse.

Double Barrel
03-29-2007, 06:06 PM
Short term: Reggie Bush would have been a perfect target for Carr's specialty of dump passes. Although, Mario did have a key forced fumble against the Colts that helped us keep the momentum to win the game.

Long term: who knows...but Mario has the potential to be a great threat on the defensive line, and that's as valuable as R.Bush in the backfield.

It is too early to make the call, but a case can be made either way at this point.

phantom17
03-29-2007, 06:07 PM
I STILL like Mario! Now we just need someone GOOD to play on the other side, & a tough DT to play alongside Mario. Also it would be nice that's he's healthy this coming season. I wonder how he's doing with his plantar faciatis, & if it has healed by rest? :elmo:

tsip
03-29-2007, 06:09 PM
Before you freak out, I have to do a current event paper from 2006, and I chose the Texans passing on reggie as my topic, because i can. I'm supposed to show both sides of the arguement and i figured who would know better than us.

Simply tell me if you think it was the right pick and if you feel like it, why.
Thanks for the help.

There are already hundred's of threads with thousand's of post about this very subject--too, most folks are tired of hearing about 'old' news, so you'd probably get better info from the older post....

Wolf
03-29-2007, 06:13 PM
Mario was the right pick (in my mind) I wished we could have traded down but that wasn't happening ..N.O. was rumored to take him if we didn't (and took VY and or RB)

At the time ...we knew VY wasn't coming esp with Carr's extention

RB could have still been picked but we banked on DD being back healthy and extended his contract too (if I am not mistaken)

could we have used his help ? I can't deny that but what else did we need?

defensively we needed help on the line badly

Walker got cut, payne was coming off an injury (if I am not mistaken), we did sign Weaver ..we had Robaire Smith but everyone else wasn't too impressive (I am still waiting on TJ to make an impact).. We needed help in that department..

now with that said. DD is solid but not spectacular, but if he came back healthy, he could have been a 1000 yard rusher.. and in this day and age that isn't saying much (1300 I believe is the benchmark) but with what we had, I am not sure Bush would have been that much of an upgrade running the ball, now with Carr's consistant passes to the flat.. who knows what Bush could have done with that.

travfrancis
03-29-2007, 06:34 PM
Without a doubt, Bush is the greatest player in College in the past decade

Haha

Wolf
03-29-2007, 06:37 PM
Haha

at least they have narrowed it down now to decade

exclude
03-29-2007, 06:49 PM
I believe it was the right move. Mario is going to be a freak for us at DE, whereas Reggie would be in a crowded backfield with Danye, Green, Taylor and Lundy. I still think we need another DE, but I believe we're set at runningback. :poker:

Crowded backfield!!?!??!

That's like saying Peyton Manning cant come here cause now we got too many QBs, Rosenfels and Schaub.

thunderkyss
03-29-2007, 06:51 PM
I'm not going to sit here and tell you guys the pick was wrong, because obviously my opinion would be seen as biased. However, if you are going to argue that Mario was the correct pick (which he may very well prove to be), please don't use the "crowded backfield" excuse.

I agree with that. If Reggie were here, Green & Lundy wouldn't be.

I will also agree that Reggie would have been a big help for our offense, and allow us to "hide" other problems for a little while longer.

But with the #1 overall, I don't want to pick a complimentary player. I want the Franchise QB, RB, DE, LT, WR, or even CB. I want the guy. a Marshall Faulk(who wasn't the #1 overall), a Brian Westbrook(who wasn't the #1 overall) a Ricky Williams(who wasn't the #1 overall) an LT(who wasn't the #1 overall).

Then throw in with that the expectation that we'll be getting Kubiak's running system.....

Ole Miss Texan
03-29-2007, 06:53 PM
I will admit that having Reggie and Dayne would be pretty cool...esp. if we could keep both on the field together.

stingray
03-29-2007, 07:06 PM
Reggie was a no brainer but people don't want to accept it. If we would have chose reggie, than all these people who are saying that Mario was the right choice would then be saying that Reggie was the right choice. Most people just don't want to accept that the Texans made a mistake.

Mario was a combine megafreak. He did all the combine stuff better than anyone could imagine for his size. That is where his stock really shot up. He was a good college player but his stock really rose after the college season was over. Hopefully, his freakish talents will translate onto the NFL. I think it eventually will but as of right now, he hasn't done much. And Reggie didn't have a spectacular rookie season but he did have alot of receptions and his team did reach the NFC championship.

Wolf
03-29-2007, 07:07 PM
mario helped us triple our wins ;) :tease:

Insideop
03-29-2007, 07:11 PM
I mean more along the lines of, did it fill the big need. Without a doubt, Bush is the greatest player in College in the past decade, but was it the right thing to do, getting help on the defensive line and trying to help a weak defense? Things like that.

They're saying the same thing about Peterson this year. Heard them talking about it yesterday on 610 or 790 (can't remember which). It seems like every year some RB or QB coming out is "the greatest player of the decade."

I think Bush had a good overall year for NO, but I don't think he would of had the same success if he would have come here. I just don't think he was the kind of RB that Kubiak is looking for. He is not a "one cut and run" type of back that will follow his blockers "looking for the hole." His value is more as a receiver out of the backfield. Could we have used that this past year? Probably, but I don't think he would have done as well as he did in NO.

As for Mario, I'm very glad we got him. If you think about Kubiak's drafting last year, getting Mario and DeMeco in the first 2 rounds, and look at the results, you can see he did the right thing. Improved by 4 wins. Beat Indy for the 1st time in franchise history. The defense improved alot over the 2nd half of the season, despite numerous injuries.

I just think Kubes and Smith have us on the right track, and I think you'll see even more improvement in Mario and the defense as a whole this coming season. JMHO!

SmokingPiper
03-29-2007, 07:19 PM
Mario was the right choice. Do you think maybe Mario keeping the OL off Ryans helped him be so effective. The defense was the 10th rated defense during the last 13 games. Mario's presence helped achieve this. The defense is only going to get better

Rightnow
03-29-2007, 07:26 PM
Assuming neither has their career ended early by injuries it was the right pick. Championship teams generally have a stud defensive end. The average running back lasts 3-5 years in the NFL. A DE can last 10.

In five years Reggie will be dinged up and having problems like all running backs. Mario will be hitting his stride.

Nothing against Reggie, but running backs just have shorter life spans in the NFL.

Please_Evolve
03-29-2007, 08:32 PM
I've actually talked to a lot of people here when i told them i was a texans fan. First thing out ofthier mouths is you should've chosen Reggie. I smile ,shrug and say DE's last longer and the position has a larger curve then RB.

Most admit further down the road the pick is going to look better and better, but today it looks bad. I think a full healhy year next year with some line help and a better handle on the speed of the game. He's really going to do good things. I wonder whatever happened about Bruce Smith's offer to come down and tutor Mario.....

Oh yeah and Reggie also took some really nasty hits. I'm glad NO got him though. The city needed something to be excited about after everything. At least for this point of his career he landed in an ideal position for him.

Erratic Assassin
03-29-2007, 08:44 PM
-Mario is a phenominal athlete: 6' 7", 295 lbs, ran a 4.7, 10' broad jump, 40.5" vertical jump, 35 reps on the 225lb bench....simply amazing.

He should do his paper over talent vs. potential.

There are 2 ways to get the attention of the scouts: be talented or be a physical specimen.

Mario didn't grab their attention with his perfomance on the field. He did it by being big and fast (for his size). His talent is unimpressive. He's a project that may or may not work.

Reggie Bush and Demeco Ryans grabbed their attention with their performance on the field. Neither one of these guys have impressive size. They got everyone's attention by just being flat-out talented.

I'll take talent over potential any day. Talent is underrated. Coaches are arrogant by nature. They think they can turn anyone into a talented player. It's simply not true.

The Pencil Neck
03-29-2007, 08:47 PM
Mario didn't grab their attention with his perfomance on the field.

Are you being serious? Or are you trolling?

Ole Miss Texan
03-29-2007, 09:13 PM
Mario didn't grab their attention with his perfomance on the field.

You're absolutely right. The 62 total tackles with 24 tackles for loss, 14.5 sacks, 15 hurries, a safety and a blocked kick during his 2005 season didn't spark ANY interest.

LBC_Justin
03-29-2007, 09:21 PM
Reggie had an OK year.
Colston, Brees, Duece, Saint's Defense had a GREAT year.

The Saints had a GREAT year.

Lets not forget at about Week 10...Reggie Bush was statistically the WORST running back in all of the NFL. Don't hear too much about that because his team experienced success.

Reggie is a good back and was a solid pick but has done NOTHING to show he was worthing of the #1 overall pick. Now VY is another story, but at the time he made no sense to pick up.

DocBar
03-29-2007, 09:30 PM
He should do his paper over talent vs. potential.

There are 2 ways to get the attention of the scouts: be talented or be a physical specimen.

Mario didn't grab their attention with his perfomance on the field. He did it by being big and fast (for his size). His talent is unimpressive. He's a project that may or may not work.

Reggie Bush and Demeco Ryans grabbed their attention with their performance on the field. Neither one of these guys have impressive size. They got everyone's attention by just being flat-out talented.

I'll take talent over potential any day. Talent is underrated. Coaches are arrogant by nature. They think they can turn anyone into a talented player. It's simply not true. What, exactly, did RB do last season to make him a "once in a decade" player? Return some punts? Catch some balls out of the backfield? He had a decent rookie season, but FAR from what was predicted. He proved to be exactly what he was shown to be in college. A change of pace back that could make plays in the open field, but couldn't be counted on to carry the load. If you don't believe that, ask Lendale White. Or Duece McAllister. Mario Williams showed incomparable heart and determination last year, playing through an injury that is cripplingly painful. He also showed his talent on some amazing plays where he chased down players from behind, made tackles behind the LOS and pressured/acked the QB. IMHO, Bush has peaked and Mario is just starting to rise to the top.

ReliantTexan
03-29-2007, 10:22 PM
If Reggie's the most valuable player in the draft class, why isn't he good enough for the coach to atleast want him on the field during the most important play of that years college football seasonBecause all Reggie does is make a few big plays, he's not true RB. Let's face it he will always need big guys like Lendale or duece to do all the heavy lifting,and that's the type you want when its crunch time because you mainly only pass when your behind and need to get up the field fast.

uteric3232
03-29-2007, 10:30 PM
so is this considered cheating??? :)

OldEagle1
03-29-2007, 10:50 PM
For all of you who are still trying to talk yourselves into believing the pick wasn't a phenominal blunder, I ask you this:

Why is the entire league (and Titans & Saints in particular...) still laughing hysterically at us?????? Any idea?

The Pencil Neck
03-29-2007, 10:55 PM
For all of you who are still trying to talk yourselves into believing the pick wasn't a phenominal blunder, I ask you this:

Why is the entire league (and Titans & Saints in particular...) still laughing hysterically at us?????? Any idea?

Because ESPN's "experts" are telling them to.

Do you really think that we would have been a significantly better team offensively with Bush as our running back? Half the time he was stopped for negative yardage.

CarolinaTexan
03-29-2007, 11:03 PM
Haha

Yeah i literally laughed out loud when i read that

Pantherstang84
03-29-2007, 11:07 PM
Yes and I dont feel like it...really its just because I cant change what happened and I dont hold grudges like a woman.

**Don't forget to reference me.

lol: I'm with this guy.:thumbup:

CarolinaTexan
03-29-2007, 11:13 PM
For all of you who are still trying to talk yourselves into believing the pick wasn't a phenominal blunder, I ask you this:

Why is the entire league (and Titans & Saints in particular...) still laughing hysterically at us?????? Any idea?
Who exactly is laughing hysiterically? Most coaches in the NFL had mario as either #1 overall, or #2 overall. Vince wasn't really in the picture for #1 overall. Also, if the texans signed brees last year do you think that things would be a little different? The decided to keep carr so why the hell would they draft another qb, at the time they thought carr was the man. Look at the saints defense and titans defense, highly underrated and overall solid. Then look at the texans 2005 defense which was last in the league. The only qb who can win with that is peyton or jesus, which we couldn't get either one. So to answer your question, i don't see titans or saints laughing at us, only woody paige and the other clueless sportscastors who every year say that the latest running back or qb is the best of the century.

HJam72
03-29-2007, 11:27 PM
For all of you who are still trying to talk yourselves into believing the pick wasn't a phenominal blunder, I ask you this:

Why is the entire league (and Titans & Saints in particular...) still laughing hysterically at us?????? Any idea?

Well, for starters, because the rest of the league is clueless about Mario's injury last year. On top of that, they hype up RB and ignore the fact that his team makes him look even much better than he is.

Vince Young is who we should've taken, but almost nobody had him at #1. At least 8 or 9 teams had Mario at #1.

PS-what the rest of the league should be laughing at is: "Hey, you guys are almost as dumb as the rest of us."

HJam72
03-29-2007, 11:30 PM
The best three players to come out of that draft, not counting the so-far-unproven Mario, are Vince Young, Marquees Colston, and Demeco Ryans, and we still managed to get one of 'em--of not two. We also got Owen Daniels.

AlbinoRat
03-29-2007, 11:33 PM
so is this considered cheating??? :)

Not at all, I went to the main source, and am able to explain both sides of the arguement, based on what the fans say...not the so called experts. Plus...If it is, I've already graduated, I just had to have fill classes like this one and team sports so that I could finish my wrestling career.

HJam72
03-29-2007, 11:33 PM
Another interesting thing is that the best player to come out of that draft is probably going to be VY. Who is the only group of people in the country to think he would be that good? (besides the Austin faithful of course) answer: THE HOUSTON HOME TOWN FOOTBALL FANS

That's who knew what they were talking about. The rest of the country hyping Reggie Bush was full of it. Not that he isn't good--he just isn't #1 material.

South Texan
03-30-2007, 01:35 AM
Carr had his contract in place for a lot of bucks and the faith of the FO, no way were they going to pick up Young.
DD/DW looked probable to be the starting RB.
The D-Line just wasn't getting it done the year before.

The projected talent level among VY, Reggie, and Mario was fairly close.
So, do you fill the biggest hole, or take Reggie who's running style is not the preferred one of the coaching staff?

Would of made a nice bumper sticker though if DD/DW was healthy...
On paper my other running back is a potential pro-bowler too!

potisyourfriend
03-30-2007, 01:51 AM
Before you freak out, I have to do a current event paper from 2006, and I chose the Texans passing on reggie as my topic, because i can. I'm supposed to show both sides of the arguement and i figured who would know better than us.

Simply tell me if you think it was the right pick and if you feel like it, why.
Thanks for the help.

You'd be better off writing about the Texans passing on VY.. Bush is a WR in RB pads..

GNTLEWOLF
03-30-2007, 03:48 AM
I've said this before. Mario would have been a great bottom first round or second round pick, but as the #1 overall pick in the draft....he was a mistake.

TexansSB07
03-30-2007, 03:59 AM
I mean more along the lines of, did it fill the big need. Without a doubt, Bush is the greatest player in College in the past decade, but was it the right thing to do, getting help on the defensive line and trying to help a weak defense? Things like that.

so you have been following college football since you are 7, and to you in your vast experience know Reggie Bush is greatest player of last decade. Dang that leaves out Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and a host of others:wheel:

TexansSB07
03-30-2007, 04:10 AM
look at where he is from Chattanoga, TN....Hey Vince Young how are you really should pick a better name..Hammered by Mario Like a Spike works great:joker:

boy these Thumbtacks all the imagination of a :lightbulb:

phan1
03-30-2007, 04:38 AM
Dude, Mario over Reggie any day of the week. Considering last year, I don't think reggie would have done a darn thing for us. Our run game was so awful, there's just no way a pip-sqeak like Reggie would have even been able to cross the line of scrimage.

But passing up on VY, that's a whole other story....

whiskeyrbl
03-30-2007, 05:54 AM
I would have to say it was the right pick. Maybe not the sexy one. I'm sure that the coaching staff has a plan and it obviously is to build a strong defense. Reggie would have been a pick to sell merchandise and tickets. If you remember it wasn't till mid season when Reggie started making noise. With the way our Offense played most of the year I don't think he would have done much. Now Mario on the other hand was a pick to fill part of a larger picture. Meaning he was not picked to be Mr. Everything, he was picked to be disruptive and control his positional opponnent and get to the QB. He was beginning to show that before the foot problems, however he was still effective. I can't stop thinking of the play where the QB faked a handoff on an end around and Mario leveled the would be runner. That was priceless. In the end Mario was a pick for a bigger picture. A dominating defense, and a cornerstone for the team in the very,very bright future.

AlbinoRat
03-30-2007, 07:49 AM
so you have been following college football since you are 7, and to you in your vast experience know Reggie Bush is greatest player of last decade. Dang that leaves out Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and a host of others:wheel:

Actually Yeah I have. And Manning never won a Championship did he? Brady wasn't a great college player was he? Are you sure you've watched lately? Brady got picked in the 6th Round. Bush was a phenominal athlete who was able to dominate in the college ranks. Like its been said before, good in college isn't good in NFL.

look at where he is from Chattanoga, TN....Hey Vince Young how are you really should pick a better name..Hammered by Mario Like a Spike works great:joker:

boy these Thumbtacks all the imagination of a :lightbulb:

First off, you should know that I am the most anti vince young person in the SE. But thats been discussed before. If I had to write a paper about him, I would get kicked out of school.

DomDavis
03-30-2007, 12:21 PM
I mean more along the lines of, did it fill the big need. Without a doubt, Bush is the greatest player in College in the past decade, but was it the right thing to do, getting help on the defensive line and trying to help a weak defense? Things like that.

He wasn't even the greatest player in college his final season... that other guy in the Rose Bowl took that title.

DomDavis
03-30-2007, 12:23 PM
Reggie was a no brainer but people don't want to accept it. If we would have chose reggie, than all these people who are saying that Mario was the right choice would then be saying that Reggie was the right choice. Most people just don't want to accept that the Texans made a mistake.

Mario was a combine megafreak. He did all the combine stuff better than anyone could imagine for his size. That is where his stock really shot up. He was a good college player but his stock really rose after the college season was over. Hopefully, his freakish talents will translate onto the NFL. I think it eventually will but as of right now, he hasn't done much. And Reggie didn't have a spectacular rookie season but he did have alot of receptions and his team did reach the NFC championship.

Joseph Addai's team won the Super Bowl in his rookie season. I guess the real mistake was not taking him No. 1.

DomDavis
03-30-2007, 12:25 PM
For all of you who are still trying to talk yourselves into believing the pick wasn't a phenominal blunder, I ask you this:

Why is the entire league (and Titans & Saints in particular...) still laughing hysterically at us?????? Any idea?

ESPN. Hype. Taking a defensive lineman over a sexy choice who scores touchdowns will never be understood by the casual fan. And when that sexy choice attended USC... it's a no-win situation. Most casual football fans are clueless... I'd almost prefer it for them to laugh at us.

Exithios
03-30-2007, 12:37 PM
ESPN. Hype. Taking a defensive lineman over a sexy choice who scores touchdowns will never be understood by the casual fan. And when that sexy choice attended USC... it's a no-win situation. Most casual football fans are clueless... I'd almost prefer it for them to laugh at us.

I agree, folks are constantly orgasming over the inkling that AD falls to us at #10... I, on the otherhand, hope more along the lines of a little known DE named Gaines Adams falling to 10.

HoustonFrog
03-30-2007, 12:46 PM
I think there needs to be some realism injected here. People are tired of hearing about Bush but Mario has shown us nothing that makes me think that it was the right choice at this time. He has the ability to be a great D player but there is just as much a shot that he might be a bust. Last year was a wash. Before the draft I was all for taking him but wanted to move down to #3 or so and take the shot there. I'm all for being honest and last year was more Greg Ellis, not the #1 overall pick.

As for Bush, people can gloss all they want but he did what they asked of him last year. I saw him run hard and take hits in the Giants game and other games and I saw him break open games as a WR/RB. The guy makes people pay attention. They didn't need him to shoulder the load because of Deuce. Reggie's biggest contribution was probably keeping Deuce healthy because the guy had been breaking down. Splitting carries was key.

Overall we will find out more answers this year. Last year wasn't representative.

If you want to quote me in your paper..it is "Mr. Houston Frog.":)

Blake
03-30-2007, 12:58 PM
In my opinion, the discussion is limited to Reggie Bush and Mario Williams.

David Carr had recently been given his extention (the actual blunder) so there was no money for another QB. Had we franchised Carr, then we could have taken Young.

I think football smart people know that QB, LT on offense, and CB, DE on defense are the most coveted positions in the NFL. While productive RB's have been known the be found in later rounds as steals.

This is why when you rank a DE vs. a RB the RB might stack up a little short.

Mario Williams is the moster DE, with a clean past, a likable personality, and the size and speed to eventually be a superstar.

There is no doubt that Reggie Bush was a great player, and should be able to transition into the NFL with success. But he will need a Deuce McCalister to share the load. But he does give you that homerun speed that we all saw in the NFC championship game. His off the field issues didnt help him either. Plus the reports that he wanted more $$$ than the Texans thought was fiar. Hence being able to sign Mario the night before. Ive never known the Texans FO to be reluctant to give the picks what they are worth.

The Texans have to break it down like this... They have Dom Williams healing up with a nice size contract, they have Taylor, Dayne, Morency, and will grab a late round RB for their ZB scheme.

They are transitioning from a 3-4 to 4-3 and have undersized OLB's going to DE. And with DE being a coveted postion there is no big time DE's on the market.

Charles Grant was franchised tagged and he is still being looked at by the Bucs for 2 first round picks. Now that says something.

Clinton Portis in his freaking prime was traded to the skins for Bailey, and I think EVERYONE but the skins think that the Broncos got the best end of that deal. I think they even got a pick as well.

4Texans
03-30-2007, 01:06 PM
I think for the long term, Mario was the right pick.

gtexan02
03-30-2007, 01:19 PM
This has got to be cheating

Ole Miss Texan
03-30-2007, 01:27 PM
This has got to be cheating

I think it'd be funny if he quoted somebody in his paper. Because it wouldn't be a real name.

"yadda yadda yadda..." stated Ole Miss Texan. However, there are many people that disagree with his notions. Take gtexan02 for example, he believes, ".bla bla bla.". and then he should provide the line to this thread as a source.

lol greatest paper ever.

gtexan02
03-30-2007, 01:28 PM
Hahah i would love it!

The Texans braintrust evaluated the decision, and decided to go with mario Williams (Ole Miss Texan, 2006, Texans MB)

lol!

Wolf
03-30-2007, 01:34 PM
not to make excuses for mario, but maybe I am

he came out as a junior and so he is still learning the position.

What I mean about that sometimes it seemed he would take himself out of the play by being too agressive (someone can explain it better than I can) and teams would take advantage of that.. later in the season, I don't know because they wouldn't be on freaking TV for me to watch.. but early in the season..

The Pencil Neck
03-30-2007, 01:34 PM
Hahah i would love it!

The Texans braintrust evaluated the decision, and decided to go with mario Williams (Ole Miss Texan, 2006, Texans MB)

lol!

Or, the kid writes up all this stuff as their own and the teacher stumbles on the MB and he gets expelled for plagiarism.

Ole Miss Texan
03-30-2007, 01:52 PM
The Texans braintrust evaluated the decision, and decided to go with mario Williams (Ole Miss Texan, 2006, Texans MB)


lol, that would definitly be my new signature if Catie wasn't so dang hot...talke about a schoolboy crush!

UTVinceYoung
04-14-2007, 08:35 AM
well, it's not just the Titans and Saints fans making fun of the Texans.

Hopefully, Mario will will be great for the Texans and then people will quit laughing at them or if the Texans have a winning season this year, I expect the laughing will end.

As for Vince Young,
He's a class act and the Titans are very lucky to have him. They don't need Pacman Jones when they have a player like Vince who motivates his teammates to be BETTER.




This is what is said about him by his teammates.
- He is amazing at getting everyone to workouts and getting them to work hard. Folks show up to work every day and treat it like that. Said VY makes you want to put in that extra sprint or rep.

- VY has no fear and it's contagious. Brandon told a story that happened while at practice. Brandon was having a tough time vs. PacMan and VY started talking to him. Brandon made the mistake of saying that Pac was good and that he respected him. To which VY responed "So what, I don't give a damn who he is or how good he is...when he is on the other side of the field I wanna kill him. I don't care if it is our own team at practice." He said VY has never look intimidated or scared in any situation on the field, locker room or in public. He then told a story of an episode where VY threw a pick in practice to a DE (can't remember which...maybe Vanden Bosh). The DE caught it and took off to the end zone and started high stepping. He didn't see VY coming up behind him and VY simply blew him up and it caused somewhat of a fuss and the DE got in his face and said something to the effect of "the rook took a cheap shot beacuse he threw a pick" to which VY said "shut up, I knocked your ass out becasue you didn't finish the play. You play hard to the whistle and I never would have got to you." Brandon said VY is simply nails. He personally said having VY around him makes him a better more confident player....

- Said he has never met or seen a person who hates to lose more than VY. Said you can really see it in his eyes and body language after a loss. He said gone are the days of smiles and easy attitudes in the locker room after a loss. VY simply won't put up with it.

- Said veterans have steped aside and let VY take the leader role. Wasn't even a question or a challenge from any of the older guys. VY just came in and took over and everyone just followed. Said he is simply a natural leader. That he makes everyone better and makes everyone want to play their guts out for him.

One of the guys asked what it is that makes others feel that way about him and Brandon said because he leads by example. He is the first to show up and the last to leave and is positive all the time but intense. Said he keeps folks lose and confident. He then said in addition to all that he is able to back up everything he says and expects from others with his own play on the field. He said the entire team knows that no matter what the situation is they have a chance to win with VY under center.

Double Barrel
04-14-2007, 12:01 PM
They don't need Pacman Jones...

yeah, because he had absolutely no part in their success last year. :ok: riiiiiiiiight

p.s. We have an NFL section where you can freely discuss your favorite Titan

Leahmic223
04-15-2007, 02:51 AM
I think Mario was the right pick. At times he has shown amazing skill.

I remember during the Jets games, at one point, he litterally takes the TE, and shoves him into the RB causing the RB to fall. It has been small plays like these that open your eyes to what he COULD be.

He was drafted on Potential...and so is EVERY player in the draft. If Mario reaches is potential, he'll give us productivity for 10+ years (excluding injures) while Reggie is 5+ (excluding injuries.) It was just overall a better investment.

To those saying Mario didn't have a good college season...whatever, compare all his college stats to Julius Peppers, and his combine stats and they are pretty darn close and in some areas better.

Give Mario a DT (Alan Branch and that other kid Okoye) and we might take the chains off the beast. He got far too much attention from the Oline and a good DT would give him some favorabe matchups.

AS far as Mario having a bad rookie year...says who? He did receive one vote for DROY so he was doing something, I call it a above average year for him, a little mediocre,but compare it to a lot of other DEs rookie voyage it is pretty good.

Earlier this year I compiled a list of Pro-Bowl DEs rookie year stats, and most of them excluding a few (Freeney and Peppers mostly) had horrible rookie years, including Strahan and a few other notables. Mario had a better rookie year than a lot of DEs have had, and that is on one foot and with no practice because of that foot...that sounds pretty good to me.

And those that are saying "You need to admit that it was a bad pick" give me a reason it was bad pick, because we won't know until a few years down the line.

WaywardTexanFan
04-15-2007, 10:17 AM
Mario will at the least have a greatly improved season this year. I personaly believe he will have a break-out season.

Carpy
04-15-2007, 11:07 AM
If you right a paper that justifies the pick because of the Texans "crowded backfield" that includes Ahman Green (2007 version), Ron Dayne, Wali Lundy and (insert other scrubs name here) then I can hear your teacher getting the red pen ready to draw an "F" right now.....

When you have three playing cards to pick from - 2 aces and the Jack of diamonds - coming up with the Jack of diamonds with the first pick is nothing but a disspaointment.

UTVinceYoung
04-16-2007, 05:44 PM
article from USA TODAY.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2007-04-15-backdraft_N.htm

I think some people have nothing better to do so they write crap articles like this from USA TODAY.

bayshorebevo
04-16-2007, 06:14 PM
As a person sitting in the stands for the last couple years watching us go down the tubes, it would be nice to have a very exciting offensive player besides Andre who could take it to the house at any given moment. However, if Demeco had been the player taken instead of Mario, I don't think as many people would be so vocal about it because he had such a good year. You probably can't get too many people who think it was stupid taking Mario to respond because they get cut down by the many posters who believe the front office is infallible. How many Texan fans had Mario pencilled in before the draft, or even considered him a possibility as a #1 pick? Certainly no-one I talked to.

nedthehead
04-22-2007, 10:48 AM
Of course passing on Reggie was a huge mistake. The only fans that don't think so are Texans fans, due to pride. If Reggie was not a Saint then they do not make the playoffs last year. Those underrated dump off passes did wonders for the offense. He was the perfect safety valve. Many people here believe he's just a flashy player with speed, but he's a multidimensional player who can block, and recieve the ball as well as anyone and is a total team player. He has the ability to take over games, and fires up the entire team around him with his efforts. He's not just a running back, and not just another player. The Texans and their fans will forever kick themselves for passing on Reggie Bush. Forever, and ever, Amen.

TexanExile
04-22-2007, 11:29 AM
If Reggie was not a Saint then they do not make the playoffs last year.

:rolleyes:

Look, I generally think these Reggie-over-Mario threads are so friggin' tired (and about 3 years premature) that I don't even read them, but that comment is unbelievable. The other Saints deserve a ton more credit for what they did last year.

Yes, he made a difference, but I refuse to believe that Brees, Colston, Deuce, and that defense just couldn't have made it to the NFC playoffs without that guy...the 22nd rusher in his own conference? Was it that season-long 18-yard rush that scared people? There just happened to be a really good team over there last year, and they deserve props. They would've made it without him too.

He's good. Not great. Not yet.

infantrycak
04-22-2007, 11:32 AM
If Reggie was not a Saint then they do not make the playoffs last year.

Maybe. If Drew Brees wasn't a Saint they do not make the playoffs probably. If Deuce wasn't healthy they most likely don't make the playoffs. It is a team sport.

Specnatz
04-22-2007, 08:08 PM
Of course passing on Reggie was a huge mistake. The only fans that don't think so are Texans fans, due to pride. If Reggie was not a Saint then they do not make the playoffs last year. Those underrated dump off passes did wonders for the offense. He was the perfect safety valve. Many people here believe he's just a flashy player with speed, but he's a multidimensional player who can block, and recieve the ball as well as anyone and is a total team player. He has the ability to take over games, and fires up the entire team around him with his efforts. He's not just a running back, and not just another player. The Texans and their fans will forever kick themselves for passing on Reggie Bush. Forever, and ever, Amen.

So far you have made 7 post and have trashed the Texans the entire way, my feeling is if it bothers you so damn much you do not have to watch the Texans nor participate in our board (Texans Fans and those who want to same something intelligent). I guess Michael Smith is a closet Texans fan versus Patriots fan, because he has repeatedly said Mario was the right choice, build the team from the trenches out. I have yet to see Reggie block anyone, but you can stick with that if you want.

I do have just one question for you, when are you and reggie getting married or are you just going to be his babies ma'ma?

nunusguy
04-23-2007, 09:02 AM
Of course passing on Reggie was a huge mistake.
The big group that has that attitude are basically Fantasy League fans who have little real knowledge of football and can't imagine taking a defensive player who rarely even touchs the ball over an offensive player like Bush who has the opportunity to score TDs. Perhaps you're in that group ?
But it remains to be seen if this particular defensive player we picked is even worthy of such a high pick ? And I'm really kinda nervous about this incident with the hot car. This kid is really immature. Mentally, he's like 22 going on 16 !

Specnatz
04-23-2007, 12:34 PM
The big group that has that attitude are basically Fantasy League fans who have little real knowledge of football and can't imagine taking a defensive player who rarely even touchs the ball over an offensive player like Bush who has the opportunity to score TDs. Perhaps you're in that group ?
But it remains to be seen if this particular defensive player we picked is even worthy of such a high pick ? And I'm really kinda nervous about this incident with the hot car. This kid is really immature. Mentally, he's like 22 going on 16 !

Mario has to show improvement over last year, we all agree on that be he was injured and played through the injury, which was described and excruciating painful.

As far as the car thing, pfft once is not a huge deal for me since no one got hurt. Most (not ALL) people who get a new toy like that, takes it out for a spin to see what it can do. Is it right, NO. Did anyone get hurt, NO. Did he apologize, YES.

As far as saying he mentally 22 going on 16, I guess you have never done anything in your life that others may disagree with since you turned 21, right? I am sure you have a Lambo sitting there that you have never take above 55 MPH. Pfft Pleaseee!!

nunusguy
04-23-2007, 12:55 PM
Mario has to show improvement over last year, we all agree on that be he was injured and played through the injury, which was described and excruciating painful.
As far as the car thing, pfft once is not a huge deal for me since no one got hurt. Most (not ALL) people who get a new toy like that, takes it out for a spin to see what it can do. Is it right, NO. Did anyone get hurt, NO. Did he apologize, YES.
As far as saying he mentally 22 going on 16, I guess you have never done anything in your life that others may disagree with since you turned 21, right? I am sure you have a Lambo sitting there that you have never take above 55 MPH. Pfft Pleaseee!!
Of the top 5 picks in last years Draft, the other 4 besides Mario (Bush, VY, D'Brick, Hawk) all had better rookie years. And Bush was injured early in the year,dunno about the others, so Mario wasn't the only one who had his rookie year complicated by physical setbacks. But Mario may have even more pressure to perform this year - he wasn't just top 5 - he was #1.
And the thing with his car - its not just a hot car. Its an Xtreme car of the highest degree ! Those dang things clock 200 ! They are all about speed, not luxury. I got no problem with a Rolls, but not a pure race car. He's like a little kid who crys out for attention. Very immature, even for a 22 year old.

infantrycak
04-23-2007, 01:02 PM
I got no problem with a Rolls, but not a pure race car. He's like a little kid who crys out for attention. Very immature, even for a 22 year old.

So now it's immature just to own a sports car?--gotcha.

There have been numerous comments by other players and the coaches about Mario's dedication in practice. Somehow that seems like a better indication of his maturity than judgmentalism based on car selection and frankly the fact that you just don't appreciate sports cars.

Vinny
04-23-2007, 01:05 PM
And the thing with his car - its not just a hot car. Its an Xtreme car of the highest degree ! Those dang things clock 200 ! They are all about speed, not luxury. I got no problem with a Rolls, but not a pure race car. He's like a little kid who crys out for attention. Very immature, even for a 22 year old.I said some critical things about anyone driving 150 on a public road but that said, at his age I would have driven the sports car over the luxury car. I think most of us guys would have gone this route as we could afford it.

nunusguy
04-23-2007, 01:47 PM
So now it's immature just to own a sports car?--gotcha.

It's not just "a sports car".
Hey, when I was a kid I owned something called an OLDs 442. And yea, of course I bought it for speed. But back then those things were built like APCs. And it was a street car.
Lamborghini's are not street cars for all practical purposes. You know it. I know it. 200, 200+ whatever is not a street car. Streets, freeways, turnpikes in this country aren't built for that kind of speed. Texas Motor Speedway up at Ft.Worth, maybe, though probably not for a civilian. But not I-45 or Beltway 8, definitely not.
I dunno why I'm worrrying ? But McNair ? Its his investment, yea he's thinking about it.

bayshorebevo
04-24-2007, 08:07 PM
If we had drafted Reggie or Vince and not Mario, how many Texan fans would be saying we should have taken Mario? Just wondering whether so many people would be calling him a superstar if we didn't have him. I don't like thinking about it anymore either, because when I do, I don't like what I come up with. The problem is it ain't ever going away until we start kicking butt. Hopefully, that starts this year.

Specnatz
04-24-2007, 08:31 PM
It's not just "a sports car".
Hey, when I was a kid I owned something called an OLDs 442. And yea, of course I bought it for speed. But back then those things were built like APCs. And it was a street car.
Lamborghini's are not street cars for all practical purposes. You know it. I know it. 200, 200+ whatever is not a street car. Streets, freeways, turnpikes in this country aren't built for that kind of speed. Texas Motor Speedway up at Ft.Worth, maybe, though probably not for a civilian. But not I-45 or Beltway 8, definitely not.
I dunno why I'm worrrying ? But McNair ? Its his investment, yea he's thinking about it.

I ment to ask you but back when the 442 was released there were not many vehicles that could go as fast as it, unless you bought a foregin car. Do you think someone some where was saying the exact same thing as you as far it not being a street car and it is a race car? What was the top end of a 442 in 1968 compared to the top end of a Lambo now?

nunusguy
04-25-2007, 09:54 AM
I ment to ask you but back when the 442 was released there were not many vehicles that could go as fast as it, unless you bought a foregin car. Do you think someone some where was saying the exact same thing as you as far it not being a street car and it is a race car? What was the top end of a 442 in 1968 compared to the top end of a Lambo now?
If I had the wealth today to own a Lambo, I could still never be as sentimental about it as I was my 442. Its color was "nocturnal mist" and it had a black interior with Bench seats (not Bucketts). I could never love any vehicle like that Olds. Of course the 442 was Oldsmobiles version of the GTO.
I dunno, but I'm thinking it topped out at about 122-123 ? Trouble is, I'm also thinking the speedometer max was 120, so that doesn't figure. I pegged it several times, so it would've been 118 or so if not over 120 ? Too many years ago to remember the details. Actually, in spite of the name my car had 3 deuces but the guy who tuned it said the big 4-barrel was hotter.
But it was a tortoise compared to what Mario rolls in.
Atleast he's not doing what some even dumber NFL players are doing - riding around on a bike like the Pitt QB. Now there's a real team guy !
You never know though. Top LT prospect Thomas might end up drowning this weekend while fishing with his Dad.

Kaiser Toro
04-25-2007, 09:58 AM
If we had drafted Reggie or Vince and not Mario, how many Texan fans would be saying we should have taken Mario? Just wondering whether so many people would be calling him a superstar if we didn't have him. I don't like thinking about it anymore either, because when I do, I don't like what I come up with. The problem is it ain't ever going away until we start kicking butt. Hopefully, that starts this year.

I would be one of those, but I look at cap balance by unit and cap allocation by position. I am silly like that.

The issue was not Mario vs RB or VY. The issue was when we re-signed that half a QB in Carr.

nedthehead
04-25-2007, 11:32 PM
So far you have made 7 post and have trashed the Texans the entire way, my feeling is if it bothers you so damn much you do not have to watch the Texans nor participate in our board (Texans Fans and those who want to same something intelligent). I guess Michael Smith is a closet Texans fan versus Patriots fan, because he has repeatedly said Mario was the right choice, build the team from the trenches out. I have yet to see Reggie block anyone, but you can stick with that if you want.

I do have just one question for you, when are you and reggie getting married or are you just going to be his babies ma'ma?


I can tell that you did not watch Reggie play at all last year because he blocked many times, and was pointed out in almost every game for doing so. It's morons such as yourself that make me come back to this site to rag on. It's a lot of fun. Go ahead and keep counting my posts psycho, I have not trashed the Texans at all. I just point out facts, and give my opinion just like anyone else here. I just happen to give opinions that you don't like. So what? Deal with it. What do you think a discussion board is for anyway?

nedthehead
04-25-2007, 11:38 PM
:rolleyes:

Look, I generally think these Reggie-over-Mario threads are so friggin' tired (and about 3 years premature) that I don't even read them, but that comment is unbelievable. The other Saints deserve a ton more credit for what they did last year.

Yes, he made a difference, but I refuse to believe that Brees, Colston, Deuce, and that defense just couldn't have made it to the NFC playoffs without that guy...the 22nd rusher in his own conference? Was it that season-long 18-yard rush that scared people? There just happened to be a really good team over there last year, and they deserve props. They would've made it without him too.

He's good. Not great. Not yet.


I agree wholeheartedly. Reggie has got to get better. The only thing I think many at this site don't realize is that Reggie is not a typical running back. Who cares? What he does is working. Comparing his stats running the ball may gauge his Running skills at this point, but his recieving yards tell the tale of what he meant to his team last year.

nedthehead
04-25-2007, 11:44 PM
Maybe. If Drew Brees wasn't a Saint they do not make the playoffs probably. If Deuce wasn't healthy they most likely don't make the playoffs. It is a team sport.

I never said he did it by himself.

Double Barrel
04-26-2007, 12:12 AM
The issue was not Mario vs RB or VY. The issue was when we re-signed that half a QB in Carr.

Yep, and it comes down to two decisions by the owner of the team: resigning Carr and demanding that our no. 1 pick be signed before the draft. Mario and Reggie were both offered, RB wanted to hold out and Mario signed on the dotted line, and the rest (as they say) is history.

p.s. it's probably cheating, but I hope he brings back the grade he(we) got! :user:

SaintsFan
04-27-2007, 05:11 PM
OK, I am a huge Saints fan. I came by it honestly, through growing up in New Orleans (I now live on the East Coast).

I understand a lot of your arguments, some of them have some validity to them. DE's do tend to last longer than RBs in the NFL. A RB needs someone to throw to them, and block for them. A DE does actually need some help, but not nearly as much as a RB. (They do need SOMEONE else to rush, or they will just get double and triple teamed.)

However, to say that Reggie didn't do anything last year...

Let's be honest here. Reggie DID do a lot last year. Ignoring the 1500 total yards from scrimmage and great plays during the playoffs and end of the season, let's just talk about the intangibles. That offense would not have worked if Reggie had not been there. Because of his presence, WRs got open, Deuce could power run, fakes to him stopped an entire defense in it's tracks.

Why? Did you see his long touchdowns on Dallas and Chicago? What about Tampa and the shoulda been TD against San Fran? (He got so excited that he fumbled the ball out of bounds with NO ONE even close to him! Goof ball.)

That's scary to a defense. Without Reggie, the rest of that offense doesn't look the same and the defenses don't act the same.

Now I believe that Mario Williams will be a good DE and heck he could eventually be a pro bowler. But let's be honest. Reggie IS incredible and he did do that in the second half of last year.

You can say that you think Mario was the right pick, but be honest about what Reggie did last year. I don't think we make it as far without him and he DID do amazing things last year.

bclemms
04-27-2007, 05:50 PM
Many of you point out the struggles Reggie had in the 1st half of the year. Well lets compare the two during the final 8 games.

Mario Williams:
16 tackles
1 sack
1 forced fumble

Reggie Bush:
64 carries 350 yards 5.5 yards per carry and 6 td's.
42 catches 452 yards 10.8 yards per catch and 2 td's.
Plus he had 254 yards and 2 TD's in the two post season games he played in and he did it with only 26 touches (nearly 10 yards every time he touched the ball).

I know Reggie didn't light it up the first half of the year but neither did Mario.

disaacks3
04-27-2007, 06:09 PM
That offense would not have worked if Reggie had not been there. It more than likely would have, and quite nicely. Don't get me wrong RB is one heck of a weapon to have, but it doesn't look like he'll EVER be the every-down RB that all teams aspire to get. That job is still Deuce's, and is likely to stay so.

Think of RB more like Deion Sanders...a special weapon that's great to have when you need it.

I'd personally like that Earl Campbell, Ladainian Tomlinson or Barry
Sanders-type guy that can just plain take OVER a game with some POWER at the Pro-level. I think Adrian Peterson is the next sort of player in that kind of mold. (now if only the football gods would allow him to drop to #10)

SaintsFan
04-27-2007, 09:54 PM
It more than likely would have, and quite nicely. Don't get me wrong RB is one heck of a weapon to have, but it doesn't look like he'll EVER be the every-down RB that all teams aspire to get. That job is still Deuce's, and is likely to stay so.

Think of RB more like Deion Sanders...a special weapon that's great to have when you need it.

I'd personally like that Earl Campbell, Ladainian Tomlinson or Barry
Sanders-type guy that can just plain take OVER a game with some POWER at the Pro-level. I think Adrian Peterson is the next sort of player in that kind of mold. (now if only the football gods would allow him to drop to #10)

Right now it is a shared job like many RB tandems in the league. Duece is the senior RB who deserves to continue to carry the load. If Deuce wasn't there, Reggie could (and probably will one day) carry the full load. He had a bit of a learning curve in the beginning of the season, but don't most rookies? Did you notice his yards per carry the last 8 games of the season? 5.5? Did you notice that he DID carry the load in the one game that Payton asked him to? The Saints offense is so dizzying to people, they don't realize what's going on sometimes. Maybe that's why you missed it. Here's the gamelog from last year:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7751/gamelog

In the only game that he had more than 15 carries all year? He had 126 yards rushing with a 6.3 yrds/rush average and 3 TDs. Nah, he can't carry the load.

disaacks3
04-27-2007, 11:15 PM
In the only game that he had more than 15 carries all year? He had 126 yards rushing with a 6.3 yrds/rush average and 3 TDs. Nah, he can't carry the load. You're proving my point quite nicely, keep going...

Let's see him shoulder 20-25 carries for 1/2 a season w/o injury, then we'll talk.

The Critic
04-28-2007, 02:27 AM
Before you freak out, I have to do a current event paper from 2006, and I chose the Texans passing on reggie as my topic, because i can. I'm supposed to show both sides of the arguement and i figured who would know better than us.
Everyone, apparently.

Bush was the consensus best player in the draft last year. We passed, everyone laughed at us - and a year later they're still laughing because Mario Williams hasn't made them stop.

I know I would've drafted Bush and if not, before I looked at Mario Williams I'd be ditching David Carr and drafting Vince Young as most of us would now do if we only had a Wayback™ Machine. I would've looked at D'Brickashaw Ferguson at least as hard as I'd have looked at Williams.

Mario Williams is a physical freak, and I mean that in a good way. His ceiling is very high and vaulted. Williams also is burdened with the yoke of unrealistic expectations - a variable that could ruin him or sustain him. At the end of the day he may turn out to have been the right choice.

Stay tuned.

HJam72
04-28-2007, 03:23 AM
Ya know, it really doesn't matter. Let's just say for a minute that Houston screwed up royally not getting Bush, Young, Leinart; let's just say Mario was the worst possible choice (whether it's really true or not). Having made the worst possible choice (and especially adding Mario's foot problems in his first NFL season) caused us to have a worse record than we could have last year. Now, we have better possibilities in the draft this year, because we lost 10 games. So, it doesn't matter. The only thing that does matter is that we do not continue to make Buchannon, Babin, etc. deals; overpay aging D-lineman; use first round picks on guys like Travis Johnson; have a head coach like Capers, an OC like Pendry, and a DC like Fangio; and stick with a QB like Carr for 5 yrs.--with no QB coach(OK, I'm guilty for a lot of that last one).
CC and Kubiak were head and shoulders better at overall decision making than CC and Capers. I expect Smith and Kubiak to be even better. Bush, Young, Leinart, whoever: laugh all you want, but the Texans are on the way up, and it really is inevitable.

Bush had the rule violation stuff going on (guilty or not), Mario fit into our brand new 4-3 scheme, Bush wouldn't sign ahead of time and Mario would, Bush has questions about his ability to run between the tackles (especially, I know he did before last year's draft), Bush would've wanted more money and this is the salary cap era. Anyway, I'm not saying those are all good reasons, but some of them are, and the Texans looked at all of that and took Mario. This is nothing against Bush, but the big mistake was giving Carr that extension and blowing off two good QBs.

There are teams that don't really need Calvin Johnson either (although we really do NEED that right now), so don't think it's some kind of insult.

Thorn
04-28-2007, 07:27 AM
I've never had a problem with taking Mario. I think he will turn out to be an outstanding DE and a constant pro bowler. I really do. Besides which, his salary doesn't come out of my paycheck anyway.

However.....

I would have taken Young over Mario with the first pick, and I would have taken either Young or Mario before Bush with the first pick.

But if it was my intention all along to take Mario, I would have traded down a pick or two and perhaps got an addition pick or player or something and still taken Mario.

Kaiser Toro
04-28-2007, 07:29 AM
People talk about Mario meeting expectations, does anyone think Bush met expectations in year one? I recall him being the next great RB. He wound up being the second best WR, RB and rookie on his team. He is fun to watch at times.

Mario was the best DE we had last year while playing injured.

Thorn
04-28-2007, 07:35 AM
I've always thought Bush was way over rated, and still do. He was healthy all year long last year and still was NOT the best rookie for the Saints.

But all this is conjecture. Another three or four years under their belts, and we shall see who was the best pick out of the Big Three from last year.

Grams
04-28-2007, 08:38 AM
I think in the end Mario was the right pick for us. We couldn't trade down as there we no takers. Bush was good, was not a back that would probably fit in our system, and while he helped the Saints he was not the major reason why they had a great year.
I am not sold on Vince as yet, I remember another QB of the same style that has yet to really make his team better for more than a year.
I think Mario had a pretty good year considering he was double teamed a lot and had a bad foot. Think he will be a lot better this year - especially if we get him some help on the DL or another DE.

The1ApplePie
04-29-2007, 10:37 AM
I am a huge Reggie fan, and I still think passing on him for a combine warrior was idiotic.

Mario will never be the dynamic pass rusher he was hyped to be (too big and poor technique), but he can be a great run stopper. Not worth a 1st overall, but still good.

Mario was outclassed by Bush and VY easily last year. Hope he can catch up this year.

Kaiser Toro
04-29-2007, 10:41 AM
I am a huge Reggie fan, and I still think passing on him for a combine warrior was idiotic.

Mario will never be the dynamic pass rusher he was hyped to be (too big and poor technique), but he can be a great run stopper. Not worth a 1st overall, but still good.

Mario was outclassed by Bush and VY easily last year. Hope he can catch up this year.

Reggie Bush is a liability except when you splice a highlight reel together. Much like Mario he was the second best rookie on his team. At least Mario was the best player at his position whereas Bush was not.

Honoring Earl 34
04-29-2007, 10:43 AM
I am a huge Reggie fan, and I still think passing on him for a combine warrior was idiotic.

Mario will never be the dynamic pass rusher he was hyped to be (too big and poor technique), but he can be a great run stopper. Not worth a 1st overall, but still good.

Mario was outclassed by Bush and VY easily last year. Hope he can catch up this year.

Wow ... a new perspective . :gun:

tbell ncsu
04-29-2007, 09:02 PM
i'm not going to bother reiterating all the excellent points. instead, i want to say one thing about the contract negotiations pre-draft: wasn't bush demanding $70+ million? mario was a bargain at $54 million.

HJam72
04-29-2007, 09:17 PM
Bush was good, was not a back that would probably fit in our system

I never wanted Bush (unless it was one of those 2 day back-and-forth swings early last off-season, of course), but I kind of see him as more of a really great slot receiver than a RB, and, with all the dump-off passes Carr constantly threw, I think Bush would've actually fit our system extremely well. Having said that, I don't see how he could be worth a #1 draft pick to a team that should've been looking for a new QB. Were we all to go back in time, Bush would not even be a consideration to me. I have no regrets at all about not having him, but I never wanted Mario with a #1 either. I'm still hoping Mario will prove me wrong, and I know last year is no real indication of what he's capable of. Right now, if we went back in time and I were actually making the decision (I know, dream world), I'd be stewing hard over the question of Leinart or Young. We did, however, get 2 of the best 5 or 10 players in the draft though when we used that 2nd round pick on Demeco, and then we got Spencer, Winston, and Daniels. How can I complain? What I'd like to know now is where is our FS??? I've been screaming "Free safety!!!" for 2 drafts now.

Wolf
04-29-2007, 09:38 PM
from rumors, if the Texans traded down, they would NOT have gotten mario besides, who would have we traded down too? rumors were N.O. wanted the Jets #4 and #29(ish) and the Jets said NO to that, so you think we would have gotten anything like that?

I realize this was a mock but I remember hearing reports on the tv due to we were supposed to take bush
2. New Orleans Saints -- Reggie Bush, RB. They wanted Mario Williams, but have to settle for the best player in the draft.


http://www.sportingnews.com/exclusives/20060423/732263-p.html

The Titans definitely weren't going to trade up, they didn't need too, they could take any "leftover" from the first 2.

The1ApplePie
04-30-2007, 08:18 AM
Sean Payton said they were going to take AJ Hawk

so:

1. Bush (Jets)
2. Hawk (NO)
3. VY
4. Mario

jlam
04-30-2007, 10:06 AM
People talk about Mario meeting expectations, does anyone think Bush met expectations in year one? I recall him being the next great RB. He wound up being the second best WR, RB and rookie on his team. He is fun to watch at times.

Mario was the best DE we had last year while playing injured.

Reggie Bush is a liability except when you splice a highlight reel together. Much like Mario he was the second best rookie on his team. At least Mario was the best player at his position whereas Bush was not.

You know, I speak the best Spanish out of anybody in my family, but stick me in the middle of Mexico City by mydamnself and watch me squirm.

This is quite possibly the most ridiculous attempt at logic I've ever seen used when talking about this "Reggie vs Mario" drivel, and that's really saying something.

Scott Fujita was the best linebacker on our team last year. Lance Briggs was the second best linebacker on his team in Chicago. So by your logic, Fujita must be a more successful player than Briggs since Briggs can't even be the best at his postion on his own team. Right?

Go back and rewatch any Saints game from Week 9 on and tell me Reggie Bush is a liability. Please. I implore you. But you won't. Because what you would find is a back that averaged just a hair under five yards a carry while splitting time in a pass-happy offense while still being a significant threat in the passing game both out of the backfield, in the slot, and split out wide. What you will do is continue to fall back on lazy generalities that make you feel better about the decision your team made.

I come over here to see how happy you guys must be to get one of the best defensive players in the draft, and I see more of this rhetorical BS spin on last year's draft. You guys never fail to find new ways to amaze me.

Texan_Bill
04-30-2007, 10:26 AM
Blah, blah, blah...... We drafted Mario. Live with it.

Bush WAS, IS and WILL be over-hyped, and over-rated. He is only lucky that he went to a team with Drew Brees, a 'real' every down RB (McCallister), and the real offensive rookie of the year Marques Colston..

Bush is trying to be the next James Brooks - only James Brooks did it without the hype...

jlam
04-30-2007, 10:54 AM
Blah, blah, blah...... We drafted Mario. Live with it.

Bush WAS, IS and WILL be over-hyped, and over-rated. He is only lucky that he went to a team with Drew Brees, a 'real' every down RB (McCallister), and the real offensive rookie of the year Marques Colston..

Bush is trying to be the next James Brooks - only James Brooks did it without the hype...

Look guy, my point is not to say that Reggie Bush is the greatest player ever and was not overhyped. Fact of the matter is that he was overhyped. Most big name college players are. In all likelyhood, JaMarcus Russell, Brady Quinn, and even Calvin Johnson could be seen as overhyped at the end of next season. That's just the way the media works, we have to live with it or stop watching (I think we know which it will be).

But to cop out behing such faulty logic as "Reggie wasn't even the best rookie on his own team" is just downright lazy and ignorant. In the words of a fellow forum member on SR, watch more football.

And Bill, you're not going to get me riled up by complimenting the rest of my team either, haha. I'm not a R. Bush fanboy, I'm a N.O. Saints diehard since I was six years old. I love my team. I'm very open to well-based criticism of the Saints and/or any of its players, but I will defend them when someone is so far out in left field with their assessment that something just has to be said.

On a side note, Bill, Colston was not the real OROY last year, and neither was Bush. That distinction should have gone to Maurice Jones-Drew in my opinion, followed closly by Vince Young, then Colston and Bush.

Texan_Bill
04-30-2007, 11:20 AM
Look guy, my point is not to say that Reggie Bush is the greatest player ever and was not overhyped. Fact of the matter is that he was overhyped. Most big name college players are. In all likelyhood, JaMarcus Russell, Brady Quinn, and even Calvin Johnson could be seen as overhyped at the end of next season. That's just the way the media works, we have to live with it or stop watching (I think we know which it will be).

But to cop out behing such faulty logic as "Reggie wasn't even the best rookie on his own team" is just downright lazy and ignorant. In the words of a fellow forum member on SR, watch more football.

And Bill, you're not going to get me riled up by complimenting the rest of my team either, haha. I'm not a R. Bush fanboy, I'm a N.O. Saints diehard since I was six years old. I love my team. I'm very open to well-based criticism of the Saints and/or any of its players, but I will defend them when someone is so far out in left field with their assessment that something just has to be said.

On a side note, Bill, Colston was not the real OROY last year, and neither was Bush. That distinction should have gone to Maurice Jones-Drew in my opinion, followed closly by Vince Young, then Colston and Bush.

On the OROY, you would also have to give serious consideration to Joseph Adai and Laurence Maroney...

As far as the Saints, I would sum it up this way: They would have had a very productive offense with or without Reggie Bush. With that being said, they should consider themselves very lucky to have the addition of a gimmick back...

Wolf
04-30-2007, 11:21 AM
I think if Colston didn't get injured he would have been OROY

Drew brees did wonders for that offense

mike moffat
04-30-2007, 11:41 AM
I thought that it was the right choice. We needed, and, still need, help on defense. Mario is going to become a key player for us.
Reggie is undoubtably a very good player. But, not what we needed.

jlam
04-30-2007, 11:53 AM
On the OROY, you would also have to give serious consideration to Joseph Adai and Laurence Maroney...

Consideration most definitely, but in my opinion (which of course means absolutely nothing) Addai and Maroney were still behind the four afforementioned players. Maroney further behind than Addai. They'll both be very good players, though, no doubt. Especially since both will be seeing much more of the ball this year since the Colts lost Rhodes and the Pats lost Dillon (but they still have Faulk, who is underrated).

As far as the Saints, I would sum it up this way: They would have had a very productive offense with or without Reggie Bush. With that being said, they should consider themselves very lucky to have the addition of a gimmick back...

The first statement, I somewhat agree with. Where I think you are off is that you seem to think that Reggie is just an add-on gimmick to an offense that would have led the league anyway instead of an integral part of what we do as a philosophy. With an offense that is as wide-open as ours is, the different looks Reggie gives is invaluable. The whole "decoy" thing notwithstanding, he does have to be accounted for, which makes the rest of our players look better than they would without him. The better he gets running the ball (which was readily apparent from watching games last year), the more effective he will be at this. When someone suggests that Bush was not a huge part of why we were successful offensively, I just have to chuckle.

Call it what you will, we'll see how it plays out.

jlam
04-30-2007, 11:58 AM
I think if Colston didn't get injured he would have been OROY

Drew brees did wonders for that offense

Tough to say. Injuries happen, and Young did a great job for a team that looked pitiful before he took over. But if Colston had continued to produce at the level he was before the injury, then I agree with you. It's tough to assume that he would have, though. You have to go with what happened, and not the what-ifs.

And it's amazing what having a smart, effective leader who makes quick decisions in the pocket can do for an offense, huh? I hope that Schaub can have a similar effect for the Texans.

Wolf
04-30-2007, 12:07 PM
Tough to say. Injuries happen, and Young did a great job for a team that looked pitiful before he took over. But if Colston had continued to produce at the level he was before the injury, then I agree with you. It's tough to assume that he would have, though. You have to go with what happened, and not the what-ifs.

And it's amazing what having a smart, effective leader who makes quick decisions in the pocket can do for an offense, huh? I hope that Schaub can have a similar effect for the Texans.


true as we saw the destructive power of Jeff Blake with NO and Oak

nunusguy
04-30-2007, 01:24 PM
Reggie Bush is a liability except when you splice a highlight reel together. Much like Mario he was the second best rookie on his team. At least Mario was the best player at his position whereas Bush was not.
Bush was not only not the best the runner on his team or not the best pass receiver or not the best rookie on his team, he was not even a starter on his own team. And with the draft this year by the Saints of OSU back Antonio Pittman, I think he may be dropped to 3rd string on the DC by the time the season starts, unless he officialy becomes a WR.
On the other hand, I dunno if I'm ready to say DeMeco was the only Texan who had a better rookie year than Mario ?

jlam
04-30-2007, 02:01 PM
Bush was not only not the best the runner on his team or not the best pass receiver or not the best rookie on his team, he was not even a starter on his own team. And with the draft this year by the Saints of OSU back Antonio Pittman, I think he may be dropped to 3rd string on the DC by the time the season starts, unless he officialy becomes a WR.
On the other hand, I dunno if I'm ready to say DeMeco was the only Texan who had a better rookie year than Mario ?

Way to go. Semantics and technicalities are always good fallbacks when you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

How many games did Fred Taylor play the first down for Jax instead of MJD? Rhodes instead of Addai? Dillon ahead of Maroney? Like playing the first down of a game really has any bearing on how a player performed for and contributed to his team.

Third string? Seriously? Pittman will do nicely as Aaron Stecker's replacement, but don't be ridiculous.

Texan_Bill
04-30-2007, 02:37 PM
Way to go. Semantics and technicalities are always good fallbacks when you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

How many games did Fred Taylor play the first down for Jax instead of MJD? Rhodes instead of Addai? Dillon ahead of Maroney? Like playing the first down of a game really has any bearing on how a player performed for and contributed to his team.

Third string? Seriously? Pittman will do nicely as Aaron Stecker's replacement, but don't be ridiculous.

Not sure where you are going with all of that Jlam, but I can offer this:

Patriots:
Laurence Maroney 175 attempts - 745 yards - 4.3 average
Corey Dillon 199 attempts - 812 yards - 4.1 average

Jags:
Maurice Jones-Drew 166 attempts - 941 yards - 5.7 average
Fred Taylor 231 attempts - 1146 yards - 5.0 average

Colts:
Joseph Adai 226 attempts - 1081 yards - 4.8 average
Dominic Rhodes 187 attempts - 641 yards - 3.4 average

Saints:
Reggie Bush 155 attempts - 565 yards - 3.6 average
Deuce McCallister 244 attempts - 1057 yards - 4.3 average

What I find really compelling is that 2 of those 4 teams are from one division, and 3 of the 4 are from the AFC...

In 3 of the 4 cases above, the "starter" had more carries than the "back-up", (the exception being Joshep Adai). Given those numbers, I definitely go back to one of earlier arguments about Adai being the OROY... He essentially carried the load for the Super Bowl Champ - Colts.

*refrains from comment about Antonio Pittman*

jlam
04-30-2007, 03:06 PM
Not sure where you are going with all of that Jlam, but I can offer this:

Patriots:
Laurence Maroney 175 attempts - 745 yards - 4.3 average
Corey Dillon 199 attempts - 812 yards - 4.1 average

Jags:
Maurice Jones-Drew 166 attempts - 941 yards - 5.7 average
Fred Taylor 231 attempts - 1146 yards - 5.0 average

Colts:
Joseph Adai 226 attempts - 1081 yards - 4.8 average
Dominic Rhodes 187 attempts - 641 yards - 3.4 average

Saints:
Reggie Bush 155 attempts - 565 yards - 3.6 average
Deuce McCallister 244 attempts - 1057 yards - 4.3 average

What I find really compelling is that 2 of those 4 teams are from one division, and 3 of the 4 are from the AFC...

In 3 of the 4 cases above, the "starter" had more carries than the "back-up", (the exception being Joshep Adai). Given those numbers, I definitely go back to one of earlier arguments about Adai being the OROY... He essentially carried the load for the Super Bowl Champ - Colts.

*refrains from comment about Antonio Pittman*

I was only pointing out how silly it is to use the arguement that because a player doesn't "start" a game, he isn't better than some other player. We can discuss and argue football and I'll tell you what I think, but to fall back on semantics to prove a phantom point is just grasping at straws.

You brought up statistics and actual football related information that can be discussed. I have no problem with that. On that note, I've stated before in this forum (well, the old official board, which would explain why you haven't seen it, Bill) that I will be the first to tell you Reggie had some major adjustments to make running the ball, especially at the beginning of last year. The difference between me and most throwing numbers out there is that I watched every single down of football the Saints played this year and know the context in which all of said stats occurred. Like I said previously, as the season wore on, he got more patient waiting on his blockers to open holes and took less negative plays. Another thing that happened last year with our O was that, at the beginning of the season, out O-line wasn't very good at run blocking. Our line had four out of five new starters and the one holdover (Jammal Brown) had to move from right tackle to left tackle in only his second season. As the season progressed, we began to see what Bush is capable of more often, as he averaged over 5 yards a carry in December and over 4.5 the last three games of November.

As for Pittman, I would be thrilled if he performs well and is able to step in as a second RB in a few years when Deuce starts to decline (he's going on his seventh year already, and has had injury problems). If Deuce keeps on rolling, then I think he'll be great trade fodder for a team that needs a RB, ala Turner for San Diego. Until then, he's insurance.

But don't refrain, Bill. Feel free to tell me your opinion. Just be ready for me to tell you you're wrong. :)

HJam72
04-30-2007, 03:20 PM
Well, I'm convinced. I want Reggie Bush....and I think we're fully prepared to give you Samkon Gado for him. :jk:

jlam
04-30-2007, 03:29 PM
Well, I'm convinced. I want Reggie Bush....and I think we're fully prepared to give you Samkon Gado for him. :jk:

If it weren't for the cap hit, I'd jump all over it.

Texan_Bill
04-30-2007, 03:29 PM
I was only pointing out how silly it is to use the arguement that because a player doesn't "start" a game, he isn't better than some other player. We can discuss and argue football and I'll tell you what I think, but to fall back on semantics to prove a phantom point is just grasping at straws.

You brought up statistics and actual football related information that can be discussed. I have no problem with that. On that note, I've stated before in this forum (well, the old official board, which would explain why you haven't seen it, Bill) that I will be the first to tell you Reggie had some major adjustments to make running the ball, especially at the beginning of last year. The difference between me and most throwing numbers out there is that I watched every single down of football the Saints played this year and know the context in which all of said stats occurred. Like I said previously, as the season wore on, he got more patient waiting on his blockers to open holes and took less negative plays. Another thing that happened last year with our O was that, at the beginning of the season, out O-line wasn't very good at run blocking. Our line had four out of five new starters and the one holdover (Jammal Brown) had to move from right tackle to left tackle in only his second season. As the season progressed, we began to see what Bush is capable of more often, as he averaged over 5 yards a carry in December and over 4.5 the last three games of November.

As for Pittman, I would be thrilled if he performs well and is able to step in as a second RB in a few years when Deuce starts to decline (he's going on his seventh year already, and has had injury problems). If Deuce keeps on rolling, then I think he'll be great trade fodder for a team that needs a RB, ala Turner for San Diego. Until then, he's insurance.

But don't refrain, Bill. Feel free to tell me your opinion. Just be ready for me to tell you you're wrong. :)

First, I was a member of the old official board too.

I agree with your point with respect to a "starter" not necessarily being better than someone that comes off the bench.

I also agree that the Saints need to have someone in reserve for McCallister as he starts to decline. I just dont know whether or not I like that pick (Pittman) for your Saints and have no opinion, thats why I refrained from commenting.

But really this thread was titled "Mario or Reggie". We have somehow gotten off that, but to bring it back to topic, I would say that I am okay with the Texans taking Mario over Reggie. Reggie works well with everything that the Saints do, but does not necessarily mean he would have been a good fit with the Texans. I can understand why you are hoping that Pittman can step in and be a second back, which also leads me to beleive that you don't think Reggie Bush can be the every down back.

jlam
04-30-2007, 03:47 PM
First, I was a member of the old official board too.

I agree with your point with respect to a "starter" not necessarily being better than someone that comes off the bench.

I also agree that the Saints need to have someone in reserve for McCallister as he starts to decline. I just dont know whether or not I like that pick (Pittman) for your Saints and have no opinion, thats why I refrained from commenting.

But really this thread was titled "Mario or Reggie". We have somehow gotten off that, but to bring it back to topic, I would say that I am okay with the Texans taking Mario over Reggie. Reggie works well with everything that the Saints do, but does not necessarily mean he would have been a good fit with the Texans. I can understand why you are hoping that Pittman can step in and be a second back, which also leads me to beleive that you don't think Reggie Bush can be the every down back.

Agreed on all accounts. I don't necessarily agree with the sentiment of Mario over Reggie, but's it's also not my place to come and tell you that it was definitively wrong. The thread got off topic when some took it upon themselves, as usual, to fabricate falsehoods about Bush for the simple purpose of tearing a player down so make the other look less bad, and that takes away from the debate at hand.

Also, it's not that I don't think Reggie can be an everydown back, it's that I don't want him to be. If we were to use only him as the primary back, then some things would have to change. Reggie isn't big enough in the lower body to take on a Larry Johnson load, no doubt. I think he needs to get stronger in the legs regardless, but I don't want it at the expense of some of his explosiveness. Without a back like Deuce, our offense becomes a little less versatile and more predictable, which in my opinion was the biggest thing we had going for us.

I think the NFL is going the way of the two-back system anyway. It lessens the load on the players and provides more change of pace ability and versatility for playcallers as well as lengthens the career span of a position that takes a ridiculous beating. My main motivation for hoping Pittman pans out is so that we don't skip a beat when/if Deuce runs out of gas in the next few years.

Wolf
04-30-2007, 03:52 PM
thing is that the Texans HAD to go ugly at times and when you get the guys that aren't the playmakers...it always causes a rift in the media...I remember people complaining about the Oilers with Munchak,Mathews, Steinkuhler.... because the Oilers didn't go pretty..well the Oilers didn't win a Super Bowl but they sure did win alot of games behind that line.


going Ugly=no excitement...and media complains
going pretty with no uglies=poor development on the "pretty boys"

Texan_Bill
04-30-2007, 04:14 PM
thing is that the Texans HAD to go ugly at times and when you get the guys that aren't the playmakers...it always causes a rift in the media...I remember people complaining about the Oilers with Munchak,Mathews, Steinkuhler.... because the Oilers didn't go pretty..well the Oilers didn't win a Super Bowl but they sure did win alot of games behind that line.


going Ugly=no excitement...and media complains
going pretty with no uglies=poor development on the "pretty boys"

I like the example of the Oilers, and their draft choices with the big uglies. The best part was after Steinkuhler, Munchak and Mathews draft choices, the Oilers did not stop there. They may not have placed as high an emphasis on drafting those guys in the first round, but they still drafted them. Don Maggs, Brad Hopkins and Jon Runyan (who is still playing), etc., etc.....

If Ugly means wins, I will marry the ugliest girl in town.....

SaintsFan
04-30-2007, 11:20 PM
I won't sit here and argue with you guys about this anymore. I have read all the post and come to the conclusion that you just don't want to see what's really going on.

Bush is, was and will be the real deal. He made the Saints offense work, with or without the numbers. (The numbers are there, it just took him half a season to get adjusted to the NFL, I'm OK with that.)

What does it all come down to? Wins. The Saints are winning with Reggie Bush and yes he DOES matter to the team. He's not just a gimmick.

I hope that you can stop dissing Bush long enough to see that.

Ole Miss Texan
04-30-2007, 11:39 PM
I won't sit here and argue with you guys about this anymore. I have read all the post and come to the conclusion that you just don't want to see what's really going on.

Bush is, was and will be the real deal. He made the Saints offense work, with or without the numbers. (The numbers are there, it just took him half a season to get adjusted to the NFL, I'm OK with that.)

What does it all come down to? Wins. The Saints are winning with Reggie Bush and yes he DOES matter to the team. He's not just a gimmick.

I hope that you can stop dissing Bush long enough to see that.


Reggie really did help the Saints offense, and help them win. It was an all around team effort and they coincided greatly....your offense did, they all complimented each other.

Not that this is what your saying by any means but I hate the arguement...look at the records. Saints got to the NFC championship and the texans only got 6 wins....therefore Reggie Bush should have been the pick.

The main thing, and I'll admit I was one of the culprits at first, was saying he was a decoy, a decoy and thats it. However as I have gone back and watched more tape on players and teams from last year this wasn't just the case.

Yes reggie had a lot of catches out of the backfield. However, you have to look at why...and when it's because Breese went through his progressions and receivers 1 and 2 were covered, THATs when he dumped it off to reggie...so reggie helped extend the drive because of that instead of a 3rd and long it was a 3rd and short or a 1st down.

I love Mario williams and am glad we selected him. I want us to get a dominant Defense like the Bears and Ravens...work on our o-line and then get more playmakers with our 1st and 2nd rd picks. I love having demeco, williams, okoye, and dunta...and hopefully bennett at cb works good.

I just don't want people to be blindsided by the hatred towards the texans and having to put down reggie bush for everything to make ourselves better. This isn't everyone here, but I'm willing to admit that this is how i was feeling at first...i'm passed that though and just hope both succeed and go to pro bowls. It's not like the saints are in or division or even our conference. we play them once maybe every 5 years so it's going to be forgotten about once mario makes his first probowl....prediction: 2008 season!

SaintsFan
05-01-2007, 09:27 AM
Thanks for the post OMT.

And just for the record I don't hate the Texans. Quite the opposite. I want to see expansion teams do well, it helps the league when they do! I too hope that the Texans build a good defense, that's a cornerstone to most championship teams. It's the one thing that I hope the Saints can improve on. We had the #11 defense in the league last year, and most people miss that, but we need to get BETTER!

Thanks again, and good luck next year (except when we play you!)

thunderkyss
05-01-2007, 10:39 AM
I was only pointing out how silly it is to use the arguement that because a player doesn't "start" a game, he isn't better than some other player. We can discuss and argue football and I'll tell you what I think, but to fall back on semantics to prove a phantom point is just grasping at straws.
:)

It's silly to argue, because it just doesn't happen. This team is about winning, and you put your best players on the field on first down, period.

Now, I'm not Reggie hating, but I believe what happened with Reggie, was exactly what I thought was going to happen. When you've got Joe Horn, Dante Stallworth(sp) & Duece McAllister, Reggie is going to take away from their production. It wasn't until Horn & Colston were hurt that Reggie started to produce for the Saints. But when those guys were in the game, Reggie is a third, sometimes fourth option. Those guys are pretty good at what they do, so it's rare that Brees needs his third option.

Of course his running got better as the year went on, just like you said, and he's only going to get better. But a two back system just makes you more predictable. Nobody wants to run a two back system.

Having a capable back-up is not the same as running a two back system, that's just having a capable back-up.

jlam
05-01-2007, 01:13 PM
It's silly to argue, because it just doesn't happen. This team is about winning, and you put your best players on the field on first down, period.

Now, I'm not Reggie hating, but I believe what happened with Reggie, was exactly what I thought was going to happen. When you've got Joe Horn, Dante Stallworth(sp) & Duece McAllister, Reggie is going to take away from their production. It wasn't until Horn & Colston were hurt that Reggie started to produce for the Saints. But when those guys were in the game, Reggie is a third, sometimes fourth option. Those guys are pretty good at what they do, so it's rare that Brees needs his third option.

I actually didn't see it that way at all. Brees used his second, third, fourth and even fifth options often and freely last season. It's the basic thing that made our offense so good, the unpredictability. However that doesn't produce that much when those secondary and tertiary options aren't capable of producing. That's where a lot of Reggie's value, especially in the early season, was. His presence made Brees a lot more willing to not force it to the first option and to go ahead and check down with the confidence that he would not only catch it, but likely make something really good happen. But don't let that fool you into thinking we didn't design a boatload of plays specifically for him as the first option, either.

Of course his running got better as the year went on, just like you said, and he's only going to get better. But a two back system just makes you more predictable. Nobody wants to run a two back system.

Having a capable back-up is not the same as running a two back system, that's just having a capable back-up.

Well, at least you admitted the first part, that shows you've at least watched him play. Almost feels like a moral victory in and of itself.

I disagree about a two-back system making you more predictable, especially when the two backs being used are versatile, and close to the same talent level. I think I know where you're going with this, and that's to say that if you have two backs, one of whom is good at one thing, and the other is good at the other thing, then you know about what the other team will do based on who is in the game. In it's simplest form, I would agree, but it's not necessarily an either/or thing with us. A lot of our offense is with both on the field at the same time, and I think it helps open up our offense tremendously. We can't do nearly as many things on offense with just Deuce in the lineup as we can with both Deuce and Bush. I also stand by my original claim that I think having two backs share the load (of course that load will be distributed differently from team to team) is what a lot of teams want. It keeps both fresh, reduces the risk of injury, gives you more options, and prolongs careers rather than having to start all over after a couple of years (ala Terrell Davis, Jamal Lewis, Eddie George, Cory Dillon, damn nearly Deuce McAllister). These player can only take a few years of intense pounding before they go way downhill or get injured. Tomlinson's don't come along very often, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Larry Johnson's production take a nosedive in a year or two.

On a broader note, I'm not even somewhat attemting to give Reggie Bush more credit than he deserves for the success of the team last year. It was undoubtedly a team effort (spearheaded IMO by Brees and Payton), but I do think that without Bush, we aren't nearly as dangerous a team offensively. For that matter, I think the exact same way about Deuce. I think that for a lot of people here to change their minds, it would take Reggie completely taking over the RB spot and putting up huge rushing stats, which I wouldn't mind (and think he's capable of) but ideally not what I want. I'm greedy. I want to keep Deuce and Bush because that's one of the main things I think makes us impossible to deal with on offense.

Gotta go back to work. Peace.

Hookem Horns
10-15-2009, 12:45 PM
Reggie was a no brainer but people don't want to accept it. If we would have chose reggie, than all these people who are saying that Mario was the right choice would then be saying that Reggie was the right choice. Most people just don't want to accept that the Texans made a mistake.


I am still having a hard time accepting the Texans made a mistake.

El Tejano
10-15-2009, 12:55 PM
Mario is starting and one of the premiere DE in the league. Reggie is sitting bench behind Pierre Thomas and Mike Bell.

El Tejano
10-15-2009, 12:56 PM
For a brief second, I thought about what would everyone think if Reggie and Vince ended up coming to our team through trade or free agency. Oh the irony.

Hookem Horns
10-18-2009, 04:19 PM
For a brief second, I thought about what would everyone think if Reggie and Vince ended up coming to our team through trade or free agency. Oh the irony.

We would have 2 roster spots wasted on bench warmers.

RazorOye
10-18-2009, 04:34 PM
"Of all the [threads] in all the [forums] in all the world, you had to [resurrect this one]"

MojoMan
10-18-2009, 04:35 PM
In the Saints 48-27 blowout win of the Giants today, Reggie Bush stat line was as follows

Rushing - 6 carries for 17 yards
Receiving - 1 catch for 7 yards
Total Yards - 24

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=291018018

infantrycak
10-18-2009, 04:39 PM
"Of all the [threads] in all the [forums] in all the world, you had to [resurrect this one]"

We were laughed at, chided, berated, etc. over not picking the next Gayle Sayers. Yeah, it is going to come back some when the guy we were supposed to pick hasn't hit 600 yds rushing in a year and the 2nd choice is sitting on the bench.

kastofsna
10-18-2009, 04:40 PM
Mario or Reggie looks like a bad debate right now, but what about Miami 3 offseasons ago. Culpepper or Brees.

sigh.

LonerATO
10-18-2009, 05:24 PM
I think these post have jumped the shark