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View Full Version : What did Shaub see?


Meloy
03-27-2007, 04:46 PM
What convinced him that he would not get Carr-atomized? Was he simply smacking his lips at showing what he could do as a starter? Did he get info that made him believe that the Oline was going to stabilize with Black/ Spencer? Was he not concerned that we have no #2 WR (Walters? yeah right) Was he told a WR will be coming from draft? Was it take the $ and worry about the bruises later? Momma will love you know matter what those defensive bruisers do to her boy.

281
03-27-2007, 04:50 PM
too bad T.O.'s ex-publicist isn't Matt Schaub's current one...

"HE HAS 48 MILLION REASONS TO BE A HOUSTON TEXAN, THANK YOU"

281
03-27-2007, 04:51 PM
...in all honesty though, he could just look at the game tape, and see that about 1/5 of those sacks were self-inflicted.

Spike
03-27-2007, 04:52 PM
Hopefully, he didn't care about the OL or WR...and not because of the money. If this guy is a competitor, he should want to go anywhere where has a chance to play now. If he were to stay in Atlanta, he would have started the year as the back-up and may not have seen the field for another season.

Meloy
03-27-2007, 05:06 PM
...in all honesty though, he could just look at the game tape, and see that about 1/5 of those sacks were self-inflicted.20% of 250 sacks=50. 250-50= 200 divided by 5 years= 40 sacks per year not self inflicted. Less ouch but still quite of bit and that is if Shaub causes no sacks.

Scooter
03-27-2007, 05:20 PM
he saw gary kubiak and mike sherman, plain & simple. individually they're "masterminds" and together they're very similar to atlanta's attempted scheme under mora. after that he saw a team on the upswing who spent 2 draft picks last year on offensive tackles, a former probowl center (who texans fans know struggled mightily) signed last year and another signing this year as swing tackle or potential guard. also, he saw andre johnson, who almost single handedly is better than the entire falcons offense if given someone to throw him the ball more than 3 yards down the field. he saw a rookie that if he were targeted a whole season was going to be the best (statistical) tight end in the league. he saw young genius in lil shanahan as his personal tutor.

there are more reasons to quarterback for the texans than there are against. the only real scary part is carr's failures, but that's rooted in what happened 5 years ago. a relatively complete team without one part gives a quarterback an "i can be that guy" mentality. IMO it's similar to sean payton taking over for the saints ... fix one or two parts and the possibility for major returns can make a career in one or two seasons.

Please_Evolve
03-27-2007, 05:27 PM
I have a feeling Kubiak sold him on it during the golf game. But helps that Reliant's Facilities are top notch in the NFL, a young team to grow with, a young headcoach that is willing to take a risk on you, the chance to start in state where football is a second religion, and i think the direction the yare looking to take.

I also think it helped that he'd be going to a similar system he was learning in ATL and had played in under Al Groh.

Hervoyel
03-27-2007, 05:32 PM
What convinced him that he would not get Carr-atomized? Was he simply smacking his lips at showing what he could do as a starter? Did he get info that made him believe that the Oline was going to stabilize with Black/ Spencer? Was he not concerned that we have no #2 WR (Walters? yeah right) Was he told a WR will be coming from draft? Was it take the $ and worry about the bruises later? Momma will love you know matter what those defensive bruisers do to her boy.


I think that people who play this game, at this level are able to look at the Texans sack numbers and see them for what they are.

I imagine that he was told that the Texans are entering their second year in this system, expect to get much better this year, and that we suffered a number of injuries to our offensive line last year (which is true).

I also believe he was probably told that the Texans hope to get Spencer back and that Winston got much needed experience last year (also true).

I bet they told him that we did rather well over the last quarter of the season once the team got the offense down and the running game emerged (true again).

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the Texans address the #2 WR spot in the draft. I also think that none of us really know whether Walters is capable of being a competent #2 since last year he got a mere handful of looks. I'm not sure what he did that made you guys think he couldn't step up. All I saw him do on the rare occaision that he got a look and a ball thrown his way was catch it and collect his first down.

We didn't know what Gaffney could do until he went somewhere else. We thought Eric Moulds was going to be a kick-butt #2 until he got here and stopped getting thrown to or even looked at. For all any of us know we have the next great WR tandem in Johnson and Walters.

I think he saw an opportunity to start on a team that was so focused on getting better that they were willing to look like fools and face the mistakes that had been made before. I think he must have thought that this franchise was on the ascent and he wanted to be a part of it.

I also think 48 million dollars doesn't hurt.

281
03-27-2007, 05:36 PM
20% of 250 sacks=50. 250-50= 200 divided by 5 years= 40 sacks per year not self inflicted. Less ouch but still quite of bit and that is if Shaub causes no sacks.

true... and i'm not gonna lie, that o-line was totally horrible the first two years, especially year one. remember ryan schau? cameron spikes? yeah, thought so... schaub's never gonna have to yell at these scrubs after getting sacked... he's going to be treated way better than carr ever was, that's for sure.

The Pencil Neck
03-27-2007, 05:37 PM
20% of 250 sacks=50. 250-50= 200 divided by 5 years= 40 sacks per year not self inflicted. Less ouch but still quite of bit and that is if Shaub causes no sacks.

20% of 43 = 8.6. 43 - 8 = 35. 35 = tied for 17th in the league. Low average. And that's if our line and RB's don't improve.

We were tied for 23rd this year.

Texan_Bill
03-27-2007, 05:39 PM
true... and i'm not gonna lie, that o-line was totally horrible the first two years, especially year one. remember ryan schau? cameron spikes? yeah, thought so... schaub's never gonna have to yell at these scrubs after getting sacked... he's going to be treated way better than carr ever was, that's for sure.

Starting at right tackle..... Jimmy Herndon.

Hervoyel
03-27-2007, 05:39 PM
20% of 250 sacks=50. 250-50= 200 divided by 5 years= 40 sacks per year not self inflicted. Less ouch but still quite of bit and that is if Shaub causes no sacks.


Ok, lets throw 2002 out of the equation because it's a grossly distorted number. Between David Carr being a rookie and having the worst bunch of scrubs to take the field since Cleveland got their team back it totally skews the numbers.

250 minus 76 is 174
174 less 20% is 139
139 divided by 4 is 35

Still not a great number I admit but a number of quarterbacks are effective with 35 sacks in a season.

ledzeppelin229
03-27-2007, 05:45 PM
Ok, lets throw 2002 out of the equation because it's a grossly distorted number. Between David Carr being a rookie and having the worst bunch of scrubs to take the field since Cleveland got their team back it totally skews the numbers.

250 minus 76 is 174
174 less 20% is 139
139 divided by 4 is 35

Still not a great number I admit but a number of quarterbacks are effective with 35 sacks in a season.

If the OL averaged about 2 sacks a game I would say thats a massive improvement.

281
03-27-2007, 05:48 PM
Starting at right tackle..... Jimmy Herndon.

HAHAHAHA

maaan, that was the other name i was looking for! i had totally forgotten it!

this was back when our other marquee player on the line behind the uber-productive boselli was RYAN YOUNG... *shiver*

Scooter
03-27-2007, 06:03 PM
i'm not arguing any actual point here. herv i'd throw 03 out if you're being selective since it's the one year out of the norm. take it out and we average 48 sacks a season (if i'm looking at the right numbers) with your 20%. again, no point implied, just stating.

texans83
03-27-2007, 06:11 PM
he saw a oppertunity so he jumped on it. The same thing I would have dont if I was in his shoes.

kcwilson
03-27-2007, 06:15 PM
Hopefully, the guy just is a COMPETITOR and wants to play.

Double Barrel
03-27-2007, 06:19 PM
Right or wrong (we shall see), Shaub probably thinks that he is going to be a much better QB than Carr at making reads and getting the ball off before taking a sack. A quick three step drop and zip pass on a timing pattern works wonders for keeping defensive linemen from getting to a QB. The WCO is all about pre-snap adjustments and hitting 2nd/3rd/4th reads on timing patterns. This was never Carr's strengths.

Texan_Bill
03-27-2007, 06:23 PM
Maybe he realized that after sitting for 3 years, that there are only 32 starting QB positions. Since the Texans were interested in him as being a starter NOW and were going to pay starter money, well you get the point...

I pretty much would have seen what Schaub sees.

A Texan
03-27-2007, 06:24 PM
20% of 250 sacks=50. 250-50= 200 divided by 5 years= 40 sacks per year not self inflicted. Less ouch but still quite of bit and that is if Shaub causes no sacks.
The average team last year allowed 36.3 sacks so 40 isn't that far off. And what did he have to lose? Atlanta allowed 47 sacks last year, the Texans 4 less (43).

Texan_Bill
03-27-2007, 06:28 PM
The average team last year allowed 36.3 sacks so 40 isn't that far off. And what did he have to lose? Atlanta allowed 47 sacks last year, the Texans 4 less (43).

Just curious, does that 36.3 average include or exclude the 20% self sacks used in this model... If it does include the 20%, you are right that its pretty close, but if it does not however, that would lower the league average to 29.04. That's basically 75% of the Texans average.

I agree with your other points except that it wasn't Schaub absorbing the bulk of those 47 sacks.

The Pencil Neck
03-27-2007, 06:36 PM
Just curious, does that 36.3 average include or exclude the 20% self sacks used in this model... If it does include the 20%, you are right that its pretty close, but if it does not however, that would lower the league average to 29.04. That's basically 75% of the Texans average.


We would have to calculate the percentage of each team's sacks that were their QB's fault and remove those.

If we really wanted to get a handle on the sack thing, then we'd also have to remove running back mistakes as well.

Texan_Bill
03-27-2007, 06:41 PM
We would have to calculate the percentage of each team's sacks that were their QB's fault and remove those.

If we really wanted to get a handle on the sack thing, then we'd also have to remove running back mistakes as well.

Right!!

How about this... Lets get our tailgate on.... Let the Texans suit up.... Start the season early and watch for ourselves on how things go...

Anyway that we try to spin, analyze, or whatever it is that we are doing, I'm getting fired up....

yourfavoritetexan42
03-27-2007, 06:48 PM
When you are a backup looking for a starter job, any place looks great to you, beggers can never be choosers.

shanden
03-27-2007, 07:47 PM
Starting job + millionaire #1 reason.

#2 The Texans offense line is no worse then Atlanta's was last year and the Texans are headed in the right direction...while Atlanta still has Vick and his 100million dollar millstone.

#3 Texans have some of the best facilities, owner, and high character players

#4 up and coming offense minded coach that uses WCO and up and coming teamates (everyone would love to join a winning formula just before it takes off ...think New England before they got very hot)

#5 Lets see who might compete for Schaub...Raiders? Puuulease.... Miami? aging team but contenders.... Minnesota? Hmmm perhaps...Chicago? Now that would have been interesting...Makes me wonder if Smith pulled the trigger, because he sniffed Chicago shopping Briggs and maybe Atlanta was considering him.

DocBar
03-27-2007, 08:00 PM
We would have to calculate the percentage of each team's sacks that were their QB's fault and remove those.

If we really wanted to get a handle on the sack thing, then we'd also have to remove running back mistakes as well.
We'd have gotten better Olinemen 3 or 4 yrs ago....
This is starting to sound like baseball statistics...
How many sacks on grass? on turf? in dual use baseball/football stadiums?
Was the sun in his eyes? woth or without 1" spikes? What was the air pressure in his shoes? his helmet?
We were so solidly outcoached, outplayed and outclassed at 7(or more) of 11 offensive positions that it really doesn't matter. Things seem to turning around in that department and I think Schaub has a much better chance of staying upright than the player he's replacing. I don't even want to type his name anymore.

thunderkyss
03-27-2007, 08:01 PM
20% of 43 = 8.6. 43 - 8 = 35. 35 = tied for 17th in the league. Low average. And that's if our line and RB's don't improve.

We were tied for 23rd this year.

Our running backs were rarely asked to block.......



because they can't.

tsip
03-27-2007, 08:13 PM
If the OL averaged about 2 sacks a game I would say thats a massive improvement.

OK, let's break David's sacks down even further--3 of his 5 yrs, he was sacked 105 times minus 20%= 84/3= 28 (less than 1.5 sacks per game the entire season--over half of Carr's sacks came in 2 seasons ('02/'05).

Before it's over with, Carr's failures on the field will be of his own doing--bad mechanics and inabilty to produce results...period. Too, as many experts are beginning to point out, David treated his job as a 9 to 5 endeavor and was not willing to put in the extra time needed to improve his performance. Family? We're talking about a career that avg less than 5 yrs, rarely over 10 yrs and offers an incredible amount of free time--months and months--to spend with your family...and, for David. over $35 million dollars for 56 tds and more losses as a starter in a 5 yr period...

Hervoyel
03-27-2007, 08:17 PM
i'm not arguing any actual point here. herv i'd throw 03 out if you're being selective since it's the one year out of the norm. take it out and we average 48 sacks a season (if i'm looking at the right numbers) with your 20%. again, no point implied, just stating.

Absolutely I see that if you're going to throw the high end out then it seems only fair to do the same for the low end. I would think that was a good idea if not for a few details that I think make 2003 a valid season and in fact a more important season than almost any other when making this comparison between what Carr did and what Schaub must think he will do.

2003 was the only season in the Houston Texans existence that they (on the offensive side of the ball) did the exact same thing that they'd done the year before without significant changes to the system.

In 2002 everything was intensely vanilla. and our offensive talent was pitifully thin.

In 2003 Domanick Davis emerged to provide a running game. Chester Pitts played LT (marking the only time in Texans history where one man has started at LT for two straight seasons) and Zack Weigert was brought in to lock that messy RT position down. The offense itself though didn't change much. It was still Chris Palmer calling the shots in his system.

In 2004 Joe Pendry would arrive "to help" and the Texans would start changing things. They instituted a zone blocking scheme that never worked any better than what they'd done the previous year. They changed LT's and moved Pitts to LG. This was a good thing but Wand went through some growing pains as did Pitts. The increase in sacks panicked the Texans and that led to...

2005 where changes to the offense made it entirely ineffective. Wand didn't get the second year that Pitts had and was benched in favor of Victor "pass the gravy" Riley. Palmer lost his job and Pendry took it (which was odd since it was Pendry's lousy offensive line that helped get Palmer run out of town) and the whole offense was simplified to the point where I think by week 13 I could have run it.

In 2006 the whole coaching gang had been sent packing and now we have another offensive system. New blocking, new coaches, new everything.

Next year we go into our second year in this system. It's such a pity that Spencer didn't get to spend all of last season out there learning the offense and his position at this level. I think it's a shame that they didn't throw Winston into the fire earlier as well. Clearly our old vets were on their last legs.

My point is that the jump in the quality of pass protection from 2002 to 2003 was affected by the fact that the Texans upgraded the quality of their offensive line somewhat (our OL personnel the next three years were arguably better than the 2003 bunch though) and they became something vaguely resembling a cohesive unit that year. From that point forward major changes to what they were doing (and who was playing) happened yearly.

This coming season we're going to see them in their second year under these coaches in this system. I expect something like 30 sacks. I think they could even get it under 30 if they stay healthy and Spencer is truly as talented as they seem to think he is (and he comes back able to play like they expected him to originally).

Very optimistic I know. It's the time of year for optimism however so no worries.

thunderkyss
03-27-2007, 10:01 PM
Next year we go into our second year in this system. It's such a pity that Spencer didn't get to spend all of last season out there learning the offense and his position at this level. I think it's a shame that they didn't throw Winston into the fire earlier as well. Clearly our old vets were on their last legs.

This coming season we're going to see them in their second year under these coaches in this system. I expect something like 30 sacks. I think they could even get it under 30 if they stay healthy and Spencer is truly as talented as they seem to think he is (and he comes back able to play like they expected him to originally).

Very optimistic I know. It's the time of year for optimism however so no worries.

Great post.

However, I don't think we need to put too much stock in Spencer making it back at the beginning of the season.

I believe 43 sacks is an amazing accomplishment(considering our QB) being that only Pitts & Weigart started at positions they started the year before. & there is no doubt they'll do better, alot better next year.

I think being able to start the same 5 offensive linemen we finished the year with..... when everything was going so well... would be huge.

I know... I know... Salaam is not the answer...... but really, that depends on the question.

Is he the future?? No

Can he hold the fort for four or five weeks to allow Spencer to come in slowly?? Why not??

Like I said, I think it would be huge. I think it would be more important to start the same five, than it would be to see Spencer start.

Napa Auto Parts
03-27-2007, 10:51 PM
1.Matt will never have it as bad as David Carr 1st of all carr just plain and simple sucks and thank god we got rid of The 3 C's that is what was holding this franchise back.

2. Most of the houston fans blame david carr for houston passing on VY so Matt has that to he's advantage he's not the reason we passed on Saint Vince.

2BCF
03-27-2007, 10:56 PM
...in all honesty though, he could just look at the game tape, and see that about 1/5 of those sacks were self-inflicted.

You are indeed too kind.

stevo3883
03-27-2007, 11:03 PM
http://www.costumeuniverse.com/prodspics/dollar_sign_glassesclr.jpg

threetoedpete
03-28-2007, 01:29 AM
Maybe he figgured Kubes is such an easy touch on the golf course, the gutting of Kubes every offseason would ease the stings of the sacks.

The franchise has no where else to go but up. they gave Dc five years probably thinks he can survive to see the o-line improved and have a shot at the play offs. He's got no down side here. Gotta shot at putting forty million in the bank and payoffs too. IF..he survives.

beerlover
03-28-2007, 01:36 AM
:money: & a chance to start in a system he feels comfortable running

tsip
03-28-2007, 02:32 AM
...ok, just don't hold your breath...no team runs only the 'dink and dunk'

ROCKY
03-28-2007, 09:08 AM
Oh, why is'nt Schaubbie afraid? Three words: AHMAN GREEN B**CH