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kastofsna
03-26-2007, 08:26 PM
per TFY...

Okoye weighed in at 301-pounds, almost 15-pounds heavier than his weight at the Senior Bowl. His short shuttle time was impressive in the 4.3's. Okoye did not lift or participate in the vertical jump.

As we reported last week the Washington Redskins brain trust which included Daniel Snyder, Vinny Cerrato, Joe Gibbs and Greg Williams put Okoye through a hard workout on Saturday.

The buzz from other teams has the Skins considering using the sixth pick of the draft on Okoye. The Houston Texans, who own the draft's 8th selection, are also high on him.**

Okoye did not run the forty with the other Cardinals, preferring to initially take part in the defensive line drills. Sources have said he looked solid in all aspects.

Okoye did end the workout by running the forty, turning in times in the mid-4.8 second range. This was purposely done to "protect" his hamstring as he wanted to get the defensive line work in first.

**this was written today, so they must've simply forgot about the 8th/10th pick swapping. no biggie.

Ole Miss Texan
03-26-2007, 08:33 PM
Thanks for the input. Wouldn't mind seeing Okoye in a Texans uni!! I keep saying that about all the top prospects!

thunderkyss
03-26-2007, 08:52 PM
Did they mention how tall he measured??

TheRealJoker
03-26-2007, 09:34 PM
We'd have one of the most talented young d-lines with Okoye in the fold.

But the FO appears to be doing damage control this year (releasing Carr, saying we need "playmakers", signing Green, resigning AJ, etc.) so I dont think they're gonna take another d-lineman with their first round pick after taking a dl in the first in the last 3 drafts.

Although I certainly wouldn't mind Okoye next to Mario.

Texan_Aggie222
03-26-2007, 09:47 PM
I hope we draft this guy. He would fill a serious hole, because we don't even know with Travis Johnson is a real player yet. He is 19, a great young athlete, and has a leadership quality role in him as well.

rollinstone18
03-26-2007, 10:19 PM
We really need a guy on the interior, Okoye would be a much needed addition.

Ole Miss Texan
03-26-2007, 10:27 PM
It seems like his weight has fluctuated all over the place, and some scouts have questioned this.

How do you think this may effect him? Once he's in the pro's I'm sure the team nutritionist will help. I wonder what weight he will finally settle down to. Do you think this could be a legitimate concern?

Texans34Life
03-26-2007, 10:38 PM
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/sub/mockdraft.html

Well according to this mock, we have a chance at Okoye and even Levi Brown!

Insideop
03-26-2007, 10:47 PM
This is the guy I was hoping the Texans would take at #8 (now #10), but I just don't know if it's going to happen. First, because of the reason you just posted, with the Skins being interested in him. Second, because I'm getting the feeling the Texans are going to try to trade down and recoup that 2nd rounder they gave up to get Schaub. Well, you never know what's going to happen come draft day. Maybe we'll get lucky! JMHO!

threetoedpete
03-26-2007, 11:07 PM
So let me get this straight...got a guy with a monster first step...over three hundred pounds and runs like a line backer...and you still want an under producing FS or WR2 over the guy.

dirty steve
03-26-2007, 11:17 PM
So let me get this straight...got a guy with a monster first step...over three hundred pounds and runs like a line backer...and you still want an under producing FS or WR2 over the guy. Yeah I got it. Our fan base is to GD stupid to be any good.
that's what i dont understand--more push up front = more turnovers down the field. okoye would be perfect. we could get a good safety prospect like wendling later on.

yourfavoritetexan42
03-26-2007, 11:24 PM
This has been my #1 guy since day one, over landry. People say we need another defensive end... but I don't see why people are saying that, here is my explanation:

If we get another defensive tackle, Weaver can just worry about defensive end, and have jason babin come in on passing downs will mario will be opposite. Weaver puts up a decent pass rush and plays well against the run, babin is actually developing into a good pass rusher, and led our team in sacks this past season. Our problem is our interior defensive line, I am not sure what Travis Johnson is up to but he may be able to win that second spot, that first spot I hope will belong to Okoye. With all our guy off the streets providing depth. That makes our defensive line look much better this year with Weaver and Williams on the ends, Babin pass rushing, and Johnson and Okoye in the interior. With Williams foot, johnson back from injury, and okoye added in, our defensive line will be vastly improved and we won't have to worry about it for years.


People then argue, what about our defensive backs?

Faggins is a decent corner, but honestly should be a nickel back, with a good pass rush he actuall finds the ball in the air and attacks it well, his problem is staying with the receiver and sometimes following receivers inside while other receivers go behind him deep. D-Rob is still learning and I think now with extra motivation he will have a rebound year. Glenn Earl is a decent safety, our weakness is our free safety position. We can draft a quality starter in the 3rd round I believe, and with our improved defensive line it will make a stronger pass rush which will make our defensive backs better. Something that might help is running some more cover 2, this will create more sacks and turnovers due to our corners disrupting timing with a jam, and our linebackers carrying the seems and our safeties being over the top, creates a misconception for quarterbacks, and with our improved pass rush, will make it even tougher.

JAXwithanX
03-27-2007, 12:16 AM
Holy **** I feel like I'm taking crazy pills....I have been posting for weeks we should take Okoye....and not once has anyone backed me up. Seriously....this guy could break the whole line free for us. Everyone would reach full potential cause there would be no such thing as double teams.

trutxn
03-27-2007, 12:53 AM
Did they mention how tall he measured??

He is 6.1, very low to the ground, wide base, and has plenty of room and yrs to grow.

trutxn
03-27-2007, 12:54 AM
Holy **** I feel like I'm taking crazy pills....I have been posting for weeks we should take Okoye....and not once has anyone backed me up. Seriously....this guy could break the whole line free for us. Everyone would reach full potential cause there would be no such thing as double teams.

Everyone would love to see Okoye next to Mario!

Ole Miss Texan
03-27-2007, 01:00 AM
Holy **** I feel like I'm taking crazy pills....I have been posting for weeks we should take Okoye....and not once has anyone backed me up. Seriously....this guy could break the whole line free for us. Everyone would reach full potential cause there would be no such thing as double teams.

Jax, please stop exciting me!! lol

Ole Miss Texan
03-27-2007, 01:24 AM
I must have a future in politics I flip flop so much. Bring me Amobi Okoye at #10!

redkoolaid
03-27-2007, 03:39 AM
still not really sold on him..

kastofsna
03-27-2007, 08:49 AM
with the potential bears/redskins trade, i think chicago would be willing to take okoye at #6.

The Preacher
03-27-2007, 10:44 AM
If this is the case then expect a few years for major impact. Even Tommie Harris took a while but he was obviously worth it as you could see the difference in the BEARS D without him in there. D-linemen are risky picks and after so many in the last few years, I would be surprised to see them go there again. Trading down and grabbing Kalil/Nelson and then Gonzalez/ol/s with an extra pick would be nice. So many needs an extra pick to help solidify the o-line and the defense seems more rational. I just like safer picks and Okoye despite the upside probably won't have much of an impact anytime soon. If d-line is a must have then Harrell/ol,s,wr would also be my preference instead. Lots of undervalued players in the projected 30-50 range as heart and intellect are regularly overlooked.

gtexan02
03-27-2007, 11:14 AM
Our secondary needs much more help than our DL in my opinion. Star DEs do not rely on DTs to relieve presure. Star DEs can edge rush around the double or are skiled enough to slice through the DL. I think DT is a definite position of need for us, but I think we are kidding ourselves if we think a DT will suddenly make the entire DL into a dominant unit.

DTs in the draft have traditionally been risky picks. Look at last year. What difference did Bunkley make for the Eagles? They had one of the greatest DLs on paper of any football team yet still had one of the worst rushing Ds in the NFL.

I think we could upgrade at DT, but you are fooling yourself if you think the struggles of Mario and Weaver and Babin at DE are due to poor DT play. Johnson was coming along, Thomas Johnson and Maddox and Dalton and Zgonia are all solid interior guys as well. We have a LOT of DTs on this team, especially with Williams and Weaver BOTH being able to transition inside if we need them to. I highly doubt we target DT in round 1, and will be severely disapointed if we do

gtexan02
03-27-2007, 11:16 AM
PS: People will claim that a great DL will hide any secondary weakness, but the reverse is true as well. having a great DL doesn't mean much if the other teams best receiver can just run right by Faggins and Brown (see Lee Evans)

astrofan
03-27-2007, 01:41 PM
...Star DEs do not rely on DTs to relieve pressure. Star DEs can edge rush around the double or are skilled enough to slice through the DL....

someone help me out with this...

I thought our front four philosophy was something to the effect of "the ends set the edge, so the tackles can make plays." maybe that was just coach Karmelowicz . anyone know how coach jethro defines his front four/seven scheme? thanks

Dunta_23
03-27-2007, 01:45 PM
PS: People will claim that a great DL will hide any secondary weakness, but the reverse is true as well. having a great DL doesn't mean much if the other teams best receiver can just run right by Faggins and Brown (see Lee Evans)

Exactly, you need to be balanced on the DL and in the secondary....works the same on offense....having a great WR didnt make our QB great....and a great QB cant make bad WR's great either...

threetoedpete
03-27-2007, 02:41 PM
PS: People will claim that a great DL will hide any secondary weakness, but the reverse is true as well. having a great DL doesn't mean much if the other teams best receiver can just run right by Faggins and Brown (see Lee Evans)

All I know about it gtex...you give any of these guys in the NFL enough time...any of them mind you, they'll prety much cut you to pieces.

Blake
03-27-2007, 02:59 PM
This just in Okoye is overrated. I swear to god if I hear one more mockster talk about how he is only 20 and is going to get 100 times better because he is so young my ears will burst.

Okoye was a good COLLEGE football player. Branch will be a good NFL player. He is a monster that has quick moves, and is a brute.

If we decide to let our secondary suffer for another year, than I want it to be for Branch, not Okoye.

:texan:

phantom17
03-27-2007, 03:05 PM
This is the guy I was hoping the Texans would take at #8 (now #10), but I just don't know if it's going to happen. First, because of the reason you just posted, with the Skins being interested in him. Second, because I'm getting the feeling the Texans are going to try to trade down and recoup that 2nd rounder they gave up to get Schaub. Well, you never know what's going to happen come draft day. Maybe we'll get lucky! JMHO!

Man, the anticipation about the draft is KILLING me. April 28 seems like a long time from now!:drool: :) Pls FO don't get cute & desperate & start reaching! Make this a better draft than last year!

threetoedpete
03-27-2007, 03:06 PM
This just in Okoye is overrated. I swear to god if I hear one more mockster talk about how he is only 20 and is going to get 100 times better because he is so young my ears will burst.

Okoye was a good COLLEGE football player. Branch will be a good NFL player. He is a monster that has quick moves, and is a brute.

If we decide to let our secondary suffer for another year, than I want it to be for Branch, not Okoye.

:texan:

Okoye will get there...with his first step and his 4.48 long befor Alan can colapse the pocket. No one durring the senior bowl week could match the kids first step. Nobody. Point taken though, that was against only elite college players. there will be a learning curve. Just me, I take the first step over the bull rush guy. Can't coach up speed or quickness. You either have it or you don't.

threetoedpete
03-27-2007, 03:33 PM
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/sub/mockdraft.html

Well according to this mock, we have a chance at Okoye and even Levi Brown!

Agreed. Either of these guys or one of the corners would delite me.

29. Baltimore:

Top to bottom there might not be a deeper, more talented team in the league than the Ravens so they could be one of the few teams that can realistically justify going the best player available route. However no team is flawless and one area where they could use an upgrade is along the offensive line, where Tony Pashos was lost as a free agent and Edwin Mulitalo was released. Joe Staley is a former tight end with terrific feet and athleticism who blew scouts away at his Pro Day by running a low 4.8 at over 300 lbs. In a class that doesn't feature many top offensive tackle prospects, let alone guys who can legitimately play on the left side, Staley should prove to be a very valuable commodity on Draft Day. After losing Adalius Thomas as a free agent a pass rushing 3-4 outside linebacker could be used as well so keep an eye on Anthony Spencer, who'd be an ideal fit for their scheme. With Pashos gone and Ogden getting close to retirement offensive line is their chief concern at this point though so they grab Staley if he's still available.


If Staley is the heir aparent to Odgen , someone is in for some heart ache. Point being....he's getting pushed up the boards.

thunderkyss
03-27-2007, 03:45 PM
Our secondary needs much more help than our DL in my opinion. Star DEs do not rely on DTs to relieve presure. Star DEs can edge rush around the double or are skiled enough to slice through the DL. I think DT is a definite position of need for us, but I think we are kidding ourselves if we think a DT will suddenly make the entire DL into a dominant unit.

It's kinda Hard to prove that when you've got Jason Taylor playing next to Vonnie Holliday& Keith Traylor, JP playing next to Kris Jenkins & Damione Lewis.

I don't think the tackles make the DEs, but there is a minimum performance you've got to have out of the guys in the middle.

I think Mario is a beast. I love the pick, and I'd do it again, knowing now what I know now.

But Mario's problem wasn't that he was being doubled too much. His problem(& I know he had the broke foot) was that he doesn't give 100% every snap.

I'm not saying he is a slacker, but I've seen him push 3 defenders 15 yards to his right, when those three defenders were trying to push him to the left(Cowboys game. He stopped JJ from getting to the edge, made him reverse his direction, ended up as a three yard loss).

I've seen him club old man Whitfield(318lbs) and knock him off his feet.

I've seen him Blow by & over power D'Brickshaw Ferguson to the inside, getting behind Pennington and forcing him into the arms of Anthony Maddox.

Everything they said he has, he has it. power, speed. But you put a TE in front of him, and he doesn't power through him. If the Tightend releases, he's looking at the TE, instead of using that speed to get to the QB, or the ball carrier. There were several times that I saw, that he could have tackled the RB for a loss.

I understand it's a long game... 60 minutes and all that. but he doesn't have to take every snap, and if he'd go balls to the walls for three consecutive snaps, my bet is that he'd be coming off the field anyway.

JAXwithanX
03-27-2007, 08:45 PM
This just in Okoye is overrated. I swear to god if I hear one more mockster talk about how he is only 20 and is going to get 100 times better because he is so young my ears will burst.

Okoye was a good COLLEGE football player. Branch will be a good NFL player. He is a monster that has quick moves, and is a brute.

If we decide to let our secondary suffer for another year, than I want it to be for Branch, not Okoye.

:texan:

Yeah we would choose the fat underachiever, instead of the 19 year old kid who showed up for every play for 4 years. Sounds about right. Unfortunately for you the Casserly days are gone.

jvaldez1984
03-28-2007, 08:58 AM
This has been my #1 guy since day one, over landry.

me too. if you check my signature and see my first blog dated sometime in january. i've had okoye coming to us. still do. okoye and williams would scare most o-lines in the league.

trutxn
03-28-2007, 01:32 PM
Our secondary needs much more help than our DL in my opinion. Star DEs do not rely on DTs to relieve presure. Star DEs can edge rush around the double or are skiled enough to slice through the DL. I think DT is a definite position of need for us, but I think we are kidding ourselves if we think a DT will suddenly make the entire DL into a dominant unit.

DTs in the draft have traditionally been risky picks. Look at last year. What difference did Bunkley make for the Eagles? They had one of the greatest DLs on paper of any football team yet still had one of the worst rushing Ds in the NFL.

I think we could upgrade at DT, but you are fooling yourself if you think the struggles of Mario and Weaver and Babin at DE are due to poor DT play. Johnson was coming along, Thomas Johnson and Maddox and Dalton and Zgonia are all solid interior guys as well. We have a LOT of DTs on this team, especially with Williams and Weaver BOTH being able to transition inside if we need them to. I highly doubt we target DT in round 1, and will be severely disapointed if we do

When a star DE is being doubled and triple teamed he does not just slice through the line. A solid DT next to Mario would eliminate double and triple teams. If teams decided to go ahead and double any way, the opposite side of the line would be one on one. Football is played from the inside out, pairing a DT next to Mario would free up the line. Any defense that can put pressure on the QB with just their front four is dominant, look at the history of the league. You need to re-evaluate your football knowledge before you make false statements.

bah007
03-28-2007, 01:40 PM
Holy **** I feel like I'm taking crazy pills....I have been posting for weeks we should take Okoye....and not once has anyone backed me up. Seriously....this guy could break the whole line free for us. Everyone would reach full potential cause there would be no such thing as double teams.

I really think you should step away from those pills.

I've seen many posters on this board drooling about Okoye for over two months now.

Blake
03-28-2007, 03:05 PM
Yeah we would choose the fat underachiever, instead of the 19 year old kid who showed up for every play for 4 years. Sounds about right. Unfortunately for you the Casserly days are gone.

If you are trying to connect Alan Branch with Travis Johnson in any way other than they are both defensive tackles, then you are completly ignorant on the subject.

So because Akoye is 19 we should take him? And to know that he showed up for every play for 4 years you must have watch all 4 years worth of game tape right? I mean you know for a fact, aparently, that he "showed up for every play."

Give me a break. Just because he is 19 doesnt mean a damn thing.

threetoedpete
03-28-2007, 03:22 PM
If you are trying to connect Alan Branch with Travis Johnson in any way other than they are both defensive tackles, then you are completly ignorant on the subject.

So because Akoye is 19 we should take him? And to know that he showed up for every play for 4 years you must have watch all 4 years worth of game tape right? I mean you know for a fact, aparently, that he "showed up for every play."

Give me a break. Just because he is 19 doesnt mean a damn thing.

Means the kid is sharp enough to enter shool at sixteen and get out in three years with a degree. Means his body hasn't finished growing and his upside is huge. It means that his life expectancy in the NFL should be three to four years longer than everyone else at DT in his class. I dunno about the "nothing" though ? What'd he do kick your dog ? Pee in your pool ?

TexanAddict
03-28-2007, 03:54 PM
I'm not sure I believe all the statements I read that Okoye's body isn't done growing. I know very few people that show a discernable amount of growth after the age of 19. He may be able to add bulk, but that is true of most college linemen that go on to the NFL.

Blake
03-28-2007, 04:08 PM
Means the kid is sharp enough to enter shool at sixteen and get out in three years with a degree.

If by 3 years, you mean 4 years, then yes, you are correct.


Means his body hasn't finished growing and his upside is huge.

This is exactly why he is overrated. His body isnt fully grown. Give me a break. You probably also rank players on their 40 times too.


It means that his life expectancy in the NFL should be three to four years longer than everyone else at DT in his class.

8 years in the NFL is 8 years in the NFL no matter how you slice it. Just because he is a couple of years younger doesnt mean he can take more of a beating from the NFL trenches...


I dunno about the "nothing" though ? What'd he do kick your dog ? Pee in your pool ?

Sorry if you dont like hearing someone not talk nice about your boy. But get used to it.

threetoedpete
03-28-2007, 04:18 PM
Ah Ok, looks like you two are kinda of the lone rangers on this though. Fine by me. I guess there's absolutly no reason the NFL has their hard and fast sophmore rule. There's also no reason why when the Jrs. come out they always float to the top of that class' board. So...the NFL GM's and scouts disagrre with your assments. Got it...you two know best. the kid is highly overrated and will not go in the top fifteen ? Uh huh. Tell me another one.

Specnatz
03-28-2007, 04:22 PM
Exactly, you need to be balanced on the DL and in the secondary....works the same on offense....having a great WR didnt make our QB great....and a great QB cant make bad WR's great either...

Tell that to Jabar Gaffney.

leachmtb
03-28-2007, 04:37 PM
If by 3 years, you mean 4 years, then yes, you are correct.

This is exactly why he is overrated. His body isnt fully grown. Give me a break. You probably also rank players on their 40 times too.

8 years in the NFL is 8 years in the NFL no matter how you slice it. Just because he is a couple of years younger doesnt mean he can take more of a beating from the NFL trenches...

Sorry if you dont like hearing someone not talk nice about your boy. But get used to it.

I am sorry, but I have to assume that you don't know what you are talking about. I can understand that you don't like how everyone is playing up his being 19, but to say that it matters not at all, or that he will be a bust is a huge overstatement in the wrong. One of the most telling signs of a bust is a lack of work-ethic and maturity. I think his being 19 is the most telling in one of these. He actually was able to keep up with Collegiate studies as a 16 year old. That is unbelievable. I am not sure if he completed college yet, but one way or another, the guy hasn't failed out, he's had to work really hard, and there is no reason to doubt that he is not mature (at least in the sense of acting like an adult, you know, unlike PacMan).

I think this guys is far from a bust, and I would say that not only is his upside greater than Branch's, but I think that he is much safer as well. (That is not to say that Branch won't be better, I just think that Okoye has a chance to be better, and Branch has a chance to be worse. They are not mutually exclusive, so before you get really mad at me and say that this makes no sense, think about how it is possible for what I am saying to be true and also for Branch to end up being a better player). If I had to put some money on who the best DT will end up being from this class, I would hands down put it on Okoye. But, who knows, I've been wrong before.

TexanAddict
03-28-2007, 04:39 PM
Ah Ok, looks like you two are kinda of the lone rangers on this though. Fine by me. I guess there's absolutly no reason the NFL has their hard and fast sophmore rule. There's also no reason why when the Jrs. come out they always float to the top of that class' board. So...the NFL GM's and scouts disagrre with your assments. Got it...you two know best. the kid is highly overrated and will not go in the top fifteen ? Uh huh. Tell me another one.

If this is a response to my post then you obviously misunderstood what I had written. I never stated that Okoye was overrated. I believe that he is currently a better prospect than Branch and as such will go in the top half of the draft. However, I do take issue with the assumption that because he is younger than most other draft eligible prospects, he will somehow hit some magic growth spurt that normal humans seldom see. If you could lend me an example of considerable growth after the age of 19 I will recant my statement. I just don't see this as a common occurrence.

Ole Miss Texan
03-28-2007, 04:50 PM
The only thing that worries me about okoye is his age/weight.

I love the fact that he'll be 20 years old as a rookie and well beyond other players his age as far as maturity goes.

But it seems like his weight has fluctuated so much. The thing that worries me is as he gets a little older and as his matabolism slows down, how is this going to effect his playing weight and will he be able to play up to his potential with that?

I don't think he has a problem with work ethic or anything that calls out "bust". He seems to have a really good head on his shoulder and is a very hard worker...something maybe he can teach TJ if he becomes a drafted..?

Ole Miss Texan
03-28-2007, 04:54 PM
http://www.footballsfuture.com/news/2007/03/louisvilles-pro-day-okoye-continues-to.html

Louisville's Pro Day - Okoye continues to impress
Amobi Okoye continued his impressive off-season with an exceptional performance at Louisville's Pro Day. Okoye, at 305 pounds, ran a 4.85 40 yard dash. This was a nice improvement over his disappointing 5.07 40 time at the combine due in part to a sore hamstring. He could be a top ten pick in April's draft and has passed Alan Branch on many draft boards as the top defensive tackle in the draft.

texas mopar
03-28-2007, 05:01 PM
http://www.footballsfuture.com/news/2007/03/louisvilles-pro-day-okoye-continues-to.html

Louisville's Pro Day - Okoye continues to impress
Amobi Okoye continued his impressive off-season with an exceptional performance at Louisville's Pro Day. Okoye, at 305 pounds, ran a 4.85 40 yard dash. This was a nice improvement over his disappointing 5.07 40 time at the combine due in part to a sore hamstring. He could be a top ten pick in April's draft and has passed Alan Branch on many draft boards as the top defensive tackle in the draft.

I like both,but I think Branch will be better in the long run!! I just hope we end up with one of them!!

Ole Miss Texan
03-28-2007, 05:36 PM
you can say this about anyone, but if Branch plays up to his potential he'll be awesome. Sounds like he doesn't have that fighter attitude you would want though and could be the next travis johnson only bigger.

jopatmc
03-28-2007, 06:31 PM
Why don't we just draft this kid if he is there at 10 and then trade one of either Babin or Johnson, whichever will get us a second or third rounder?

If Okoye is still there at 10, I sure hope we go after him. He's just got it. He's an overachiever. He's super smart. And he's super quick, with very good size, but he's compact with a low center of gravity. I think he makes or dline a killer. Trade either TJ or JB and our 4th rounder for either a low first or second rounder, and pick up an offensive tackle there. Then get a DB in the 3rd.

JAXwithanX
03-28-2007, 09:02 PM
If you are trying to connect Alan Branch with Travis Johnson in any way other than they are both defensive tackles, then you are completly ignorant on the subject.

So because Akoye is 19 we should take him? And to know that he showed up for every play for 4 years you must have watch all 4 years worth of game tape right? I mean you know for a fact, aparently, that he "showed up for every play."

Give me a break. Just because he is 19 doesnt mean a damn thing.

So what has Alan Branch specifically done in his career to show he is a better player that Okoye. Your right I haven't watched 2every single play of his career, just like I haven't seen all of Branch's. But I did see enough to be able to make the obvious assesment that Okoye plays harder.

This sort of blind refusal to see facts like Okoye being 3 years younger than Branch and how that might be significant just screams homerism. Would not be the least bit surprised if you were a Michigan fan.

Here is a little more production proof for you since common sense doesn't work for you -

2006
Branch - 18 tackles, 7 assisted, 2 assisted loss, 5 solo loss, 0 assisted sacks, 2 solo sacks

Okoye - 39 tackles, 15 assisted, 3 assisted loss, 11 solo loss, 2 assisted sacks, 7 solo sacks

Both had 2 forced fumbles and 1 pass defended.

Whats even funnier is how Branch's fat ass disappeared in ever big game they had.

Notre Dame? - 1 tackle...period.
Ohio State? - 2 assisted tackles (I know he unfortunately had that interception, because otherwise we wouldn't be talking about him before round 3. I realize this does show his athleticism, but I'm more into actual production, having just one tackle of his own that game might have helped.)
USC? - 2 tackles.

Okoye in big games?
West Virginia? - 5 tackles and a forced fumble
Rutgers? - 3 tackles, 1 sack for a loss of 5

Oh yeah....i forgot....Okoye is also 3 years younger. Basically comparing a sophmore to a senior in physical maturity. And on the d-line no less.

bah007
03-28-2007, 09:31 PM
So what has Alan Branch specifically done in his career to show he is a better player that Okoye. Your right I haven't watched 2every single play of his career, just like I haven't seen all of Branch's. But I did see enough to be able to make the obvious assesment that Okoye plays harder.

This sort of blind refusal to see facts like Okoye being 3 years younger than Branch and how that might be significant just screams homerism. Would not be the least bit surprised if you were a Michigan fan.

Here is a little more production proof for you since common sense doesn't work for you -



Both had 2 forced fumbles and 1 pass defended.

Whats even funnier is how Branch's fat ass disappeared in ever big game they had.

Notre Dame? - 1 tackle...period.
Ohio State? - 2 assisted tackles (I know he unfortunately had that interception, because otherwise we wouldn't be talking about him before round 3. I realize this does show his athleticism, but I'm more into actual production, having just one tackle of his own that game might have helped.)
USC? - 2 tackles.

Okoye in big games?
West Virginia? - 5 tackles and a forced fumble
Rutgers? - 3 tackles, 1 sack for a loss of 5

Oh yeah....i forgot....Okoye is also 3 years younger. Basically comparing a sophmore to a senior in physical maturity. And on the d-line no less.

Wow. That is all obviously significant cuz DT's are judged solely on their statline.

Okoye is good, but drafting a player just cuz he is 3 years younger than the guy next to him is just ridiculous.

infantrycak
03-28-2007, 09:50 PM
Okoye is good, but drafting a player just cuz he is 3 years younger than the guy next to him is just ridiculous.

No, replying to someone that made 3-4 arguments as if they said draft a player just because he is younger is what is ridiculous.

TaylorFan27
03-28-2007, 09:52 PM
No, replying to someone that made 3-4 arguments as if they said draft a player just because he is younger is what is ridiculous.

true. but okoye is darn good. if we pick him at #10 I would be ecstatic.

redkoolaid
03-28-2007, 10:06 PM
Branch will be a bust...mark it down..(he has Travis Johnson written all over his forehead...translation: Lazy)..

And as far as Okoye...I think hes overrated, and is getting credit because he finished college at 19 or whatever...

I dont know how Good he'll be...but you cant tell me a 19 year old will step in the NFL, and Beast grown men..

He might be good sometime, but to me Okoye is a project..

and as a Texan fan...I'm tired of "projects"...we should stop worrying about the upside..hell bring 4 years from now..and start worrying about WINNING NOW

Lets face it...Our defense is no Baltimore, Pittsburgh, or Chicago...they could afford..to draft someone like Okoye, and let him develop..3 years or whatever

But back into reality...OUR DEFENSE was one of the WORST in the league...

We need INSTANT help...If you think Zgnoia, Clark, or Barber is going to deeply impact out D, then you're delusional

We need someone like Nelson, Landry, or Willis...someone who will step in like Demeco Did and Improve out defense...

Just imagine if we drafted Landry or Nelson...we could move CC Back to his natural SS position, and this will serve as a dominoe affect and improve our defense all across the board..

In conclusion..

We need help NOW, I want to win NOW, and I want a beastly defense NOW

bah007
03-28-2007, 10:10 PM
No, replying to someone that made 3-4 arguments as if they said draft a player just because he is younger is what is ridiculous.

Well call me crazy but his main arguements are based on stats (really not that important for a DT, especially considering it would be very hard for Branch to have a great game statistically when he had Harris & Woodley on his team) and his age.

I think it is great that Okoye will be a 20 year old in the NFL. He is a talented player also. But I wouldnt draft him over Branch for that reason alone.

JAXwithanX
03-29-2007, 12:34 AM
Well call me crazy but his main arguements are based on stats (really not that important for a DT, especially considering it would be very hard for Branch to have a great game statistically when he had Harris & Woodley on his team) and his age.

I think it is great that Okoye will be a 20 year old in the NFL. He is a talented player also. But I wouldnt draft him over Branch for that reason alone.

So I'll ask again....WHY Branch over Okoye. If stats mean nothing and being 19 years old among 22 year olds means nothing, what does matter? Does showing up overweight and moving like a toad out there count? Cause one of the two achieved that quite nicely.

Someone for Christ's sake give me one bit of logical arguement on how Branch is a better DT. I won't even get into the whole 3 year younger thing....I'm going to ignore it and the growth that will come along (possible physical, but mostly technical) in hopes that at least one poster can provide a shred of reason why Branch should be considered a better prospect from what we know and have seen.

WHY is Branch better?

bah007
03-29-2007, 01:03 AM
Well Branch is going to be one of the strongest defensive players in the draft. I'm not sure, but I think he did the most bench reps for a DT at the combine. I know that only tells us what we already know. He is going to be a run stuffer.

He is a huge run plugger who reminds me of John Henderson (who I would really love to have on our team).

Granted, its been said that he takes some plays off and that is a problem, but I watched all of Michigan's games last year and I cant remember a play where I noticed him dragging ass.

He is in the backfield disrupting on every single play, and that is a guy that I would want on our team.

I'm not gonna come down on Okoye because I think he is very good, I just think that Branch is going to be better.

And that is my speculation of the situation, which is all the draft really is.

JAXwithanX
03-29-2007, 02:08 AM
Wow. That is all obviously significant cuz DT's are judged solely on their statline.

Okoye is good, but drafting a player just cuz he is 3 years younger than the guy next to him is just ridiculous.

Well Branch is going to be one of the strongest defensive players in the draft. I'm not sure, but I think he did the most bench reps for a DT at the combine. I know that only tells us what we already know. He is going to be a run stuffer.

He is a huge run plugger who reminds me of John Henderson (who I would really love to have on our team).

Granted, its been said that he takes some plays off and that is a problem, but I watched all of Michigan's games last year and I cant remember a play where I noticed him dragging ass.

He is in the backfield disrupting on every single play, and that is a guy that I would want on our team.

I'm not gonna come down on Okoye because I think he is very good, I just think that Branch is going to be better.

And that is my speculation of the situation, which is all the draft really is.

Wow. His bench press reps are obviously significant (only 3 more than Okeye by the way, yet 30 pounds heavier than him, oh yeah and those 3 extra years of working out) cuz DT's are judged solely on their bench press strength???

LOL. Now you see how stupid you sounded above?? You even make it worse by then inferring that because Branch is a strong DT so he automatically will be a run stopper in the NFL. Its just a given right??

Just really horrible reasoning.

Another one of your points is how he personally reminds you of John Henderson and how we can use John Henderson on this team........seriously....this is good proof?

OK. Amobi Okoye reminds me of a pre-Raider Warren Sapp. And we could use of those. And see because i see that comparison....it makes a better proof than stats............................................. ......................yeah it is that ridiculous.

Another reason you mentioned is how he is constantly disrupting in the backfield....yet I believe he had 2 QB hurries last year and part of the reason he got that interception was because he was taking the play off and was 5 yards from the QB. Not to mention constantly being in the backfield should equate to at least some type of statistical "proof;.

Congratulations on making it clear for me and everyone else why Okoye>Branch in every possible facet of football.

infantrycak
03-29-2007, 10:04 AM
I'm not sure, but I think he did the most bench reps for a DT at the combine.

So bench press stats count but any stats where he doesn't lead (particularly those from on the football field) don't count. :ok:

kastofsna
03-29-2007, 10:18 AM
stats for DT's are very insignificant. bench reps are important, but branch did 33 and okoye did 29. hardly a huge difference. okoye bested him in every other drill though.

and they're different players, so...whatever. branch is a stuffer, okoye is a penetrator.

JAXwithanX
03-29-2007, 03:43 PM
stats for DT's are very insignificant.

I can agree they don't mean as much as say, QB stats or RB stats. But to call them very insignificant is foolish. They may not tell the whole story....but they tell a better story than measurables at the combine (which Okoye trounced Branch with as well).

And it isn't just like Okoye barely had better stats than Branch in all aspects of the game....it was significant in every category. And that is comparable. Period.

And Branch's inability to play at a high level against good teams was very apparent as well. Okoye? Came to play and shined in his big games.

bench reps are important

Peppers and Henderson benched 24 reps....Albert Hayneworth - 17 reps. I just picked those two from the 2002 draft. Hardly seems more telling than statistics if you ask me. If not....might as well buy Branch and Okoye tickets to Honolulu next year.

kastofsna
03-29-2007, 03:49 PM
they're not comparable...they have different roles. you can't look at adam carriker's sack stats and say "meh he didnt do much this year" because he did all kinds of things on the line, had a lot of responsibilities outside of rushing the passer. michigan's whole defense disappeared in big games, that's a lloyd carr thing.

JAXwithanX
03-29-2007, 04:05 PM
Well then why did Okoye also put up more than twice as many tackles? Branch barely had one a game, and you can go say as much as you want that his job wasn't to make tackles....but I don't care much for having a 6'6" 330 ass sitting on the line taking up space for a LB to finish off for him. We can get that somewhere other than the 10th pick in the draft. A big body to sit on the line. We can get that way lower in the draft if that is what we are looking for.

Not to mention, the last thing we need is our LB's having to fill up the running lanes constantly, when we all know we need as much players out in the secondary as we can. So i'd rather have a DT who can actually shed a lineman and make a play himself.....seems pretty logical to me.

Point is...if Branch is this run stopper....he should have had more than 16 damn tackles all year.

bah007
03-29-2007, 04:24 PM
....but I don't care much for having a 6'6" 330 ass sitting on the line taking up space for a LB to finish off for him...

Yeah.

Ray Lewis has really had a horrible career playing in a defense like that.

Around the league, the Ravens' defense is considered to be really terrible.

Rex King
03-29-2007, 05:22 PM
Do we need a two-gapper? Now that we got rid of Seth Payne, we don't have one on the roster, although Maddox and Dalton did an admirable job of filling in. If Mario can develop into an outside rusher, then I think we'd be better off with a run-stuffer. DeMeco's was at his best penetrating the gaps and struggled a bit with shedding blockers, though I'm sure he'll improve there.

TheRealJoker
03-29-2007, 05:59 PM
:joker: Maybe TJ will grow into one

JAXwithanX
03-29-2007, 06:52 PM
Yeah.

Ray Lewis has really had a horrible career playing in a defense like that.

Around the league, the Ravens' defense is considered to be really terrible.

Lol. So now we have the Raven's defense.

Not only do we not have their players for a D, we don't run the same style. And we sure as **** don't have an Ed Reed in the secondary to make up for having our LB's constantly having to plug the gaps because our DT's can't ever shed a block and make a tackle themselves.

Our LB's have to stay back on most plays to help out in the secondary....the last thing we need is another monster to sit around and get paid to do a good job of taking up a OL's block and not letting him get to the LB. We need guys with the ability to actually shed that block and make a play. Period.