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Dime
03-26-2007, 02:20 PM
Kub and Rick have done awesome this year making us really active in FA. But all the post i am seeing are like this.

We overpaid for Schaub.
We have had a horrible 5 years under Carr.
Kub and Rick are putting thier Careers on the line with the price we paid.
Kub dropped the ball last year with extending Carr.
We didnt draft Bush.
We didnt draft Vince.
Look at how horrible we drafted for the last 5 years.
We dropped Carr and Dom Williams with no comp.
We are out a second round pick next year.
The Babin deal
The P-Buc deal
etc.....

My Gawd. We have for the FIRST time a coach and GM who are only in thier first year at GM for Rick Smith and second year coach, and next they will know, they will be blamed for crime around houston. We have a HUGE amount of people here that have 'cangetover' condition, and might really need to see help about it. Why are we banging Kub for the Babin deal, or P-Buc deal, or how bad the draft was before he was here. Let me help. I will run these down for you so you will know and you can get on with being happy for the texans.

We overpaid for Schaub.
- No, we didnt. Experience (even though slightly) QB, most highly sought by ALL teams before the beginning of season. Ranked above all FA this year. Young, and most chance of winning we have had. 2nd this year is just like we drafted him, 2nd next year is all we lost. In addition, we got a WCO player since we run a WCO.

We have had a horrible 5 years under Carr.
And old news. He is gone. Give a good cry and move on.


Kub and Rick are putting thier Careers on the line with the price we paid.
They are credited for TRYING to make this team better. If you want to fire them for taking a chance, then go ahead. Personally, I would wait till Schaub actually plays a down for us, before I start making threats for Kubs and Rick.

Kub dropped the ball last year with extending Carr.
Sigh, Kub was trying to save the golden boy because of his QB coaching experience. He saw that he wasnt improving to the degree and decided we would win faster with someone without so much baggage.

We didnt draft Bush.
Yes, bush is awesome. But so is that arrogance to. There was no way he thought we would draft someone else and would have held out for big bucks. He had credibility issue, character issues, and they were to much for the Texans. Many other reasons, but you all heard them before. Move on.

We didnt draft Vince.
Many at the time of last years draft didnt think Vince was even possible of drafting because of him being to much of a unknown if he were to make the transition. Hind sight is 20 20. So how many teams passed on Ryans.. ahhh all 32, seeeeeeeeee.

Look at how horrible we drafted for the last 5 years.
Last year, we pick more starters then any year before. Why are we yelling about the other 4 years, because those doing the picking arent here anymore. If you want to complain about this, do it about last years picks.

We dropped Carr and Dom Williams with no comp.
They had little value with the high priced contracts they had, and teams knew we needed to dump him this year. Plus it helped our cap most by dumping them. Personally, I would want Rick and Kub concertrating on other deals then working a month trying to secure something he probably wouldnt get anything above a 4th for. Waste of time and effort.

We are out a second round pick next year.
Second rounder is hopefully, going to be around the middle or further down next year, so this doesnt bite too bad. However, we paid a cheaper price then what could have happen for Schaub, so be thankful we have good GM like Rick to get a decent deal.

The Babin deal
Rick and Kub wasnt here for this, why are we talking about this again, move on.

The P-Buc deal
Rick and Kub wasnt here for this, why are we talking about this again, move on.

Kub and Rick have made solid moves without murdering the Cap, and are greatly improving this team. Show some faith people. We are looking at awesome cap space next year, we have made 5 SOLID moves in FA this year, and that is before the draft. Why cant you be happy for us?

Tailgate
03-26-2007, 02:21 PM
I don't even have to read this one completely thru for me to agree with it..... I have been confused with alot of the posts myself.

ATX
03-26-2007, 02:24 PM
Kub and Rick have done awesome this year making us really active in FA. But all the post i am seeing are like this.

We overpaid for Schaub.
We have had a horrible 5 years under Carr.
Kub and Rick are putting thier Careers on the line with the price we paid.
Kub dropped the ball last year with extending Carr.
We didnt draft Bush.
We didnt draft Vince.
Look at how horrible we drafted for the last 5 years.
We dropped Carr and Dom Williams with no comp.
We are out a second round pick next year.
The Babin deal
The P-Buc deal
etc.....

My Gawd. We have for the FIRST time a coach and GM who are only in thier first year at GM for Rick Smith and second year coach, and next they will know, they will be blamed for crime around houston. We have a HUGE amount of people here that have 'cangetover' condition, and might really need to see help about it. Why are we banging Kub for the Babin deal, or P-Buc deal, or how bad the draft was before he was here. Let me help. I will run these down for you so you will know and you can get on with being happy for the texans.

We overpaid for Schaub.
- No, we didnt. Experience (even though slightly) QB, most highly sought by ALL teams before the beginning of season. Ranked above all FA this year. Young, and most chance of winning we have had. 2nd this year is just like we drafted him, 2nd next year is all we lost. In addition, we got a WCO player since we run a WCO.

We have had a horrible 5 years under Carr.
And old news. He is gone. Give a good cry and move on.


Kub and Rick are putting thier Careers on the line with the price we paid.
They are credited for TRYING to make this team better. If you want to fire them for taking a chance, then go ahead. Personally, I would wait till Schaub actually plays a down for us, before I start making threats for Kubs and Rick.

Kub dropped the ball last year with extending Carr.
Sigh, Kub was trying to save the golden boy because of his QB coaching experience. He saw that he wasnt improving to the degree and decided we would win faster with someone without so much baggage.

We didnt draft Bush.
Yes, bush is awesome. But so is that arrogance to. There was no way he thought we would draft someone else and would have held out for big bucks. He had credibility issue, character issues, and they were to much for the Texans. Many other reasons, but you all heard them before. Move on.

We didnt draft Vince.
Many at the time of last years draft didnt think Vince was even possible of drafting because of him being to much of a unknown if he were to make the transition. Hind sight is 20 20. So how many teams passed on Ryans.. ahhh all 32, seeeeeeeeee.

Look at how horrible we drafted for the last 5 years.
Last year, we pick more starters then any year before. Why are we yelling about the other 4 years, because those doing the picking arent here anymore. If you want to complain about this, do it about last years picks.

We dropped Carr and Dom Williams with no comp.
They had little value with the high priced contracts they had, and teams knew we needed to dump him this year. Plus it helped our cap most by dumping them. Personally, I would want Rick and Kub concertrating on other deals then working a month trying to secure something he probably wouldnt get anything above a 4th for. Waste of time and effort.

We are out a second round pick next year.
Second rounder is hopefully, going to be around the middle or further down next year, so this doesnt bite too bad. However, we paid a cheaper price then what could have happen for Schaub, so be thankful we have good GM like Rick to get a decent deal.

The Babin deal
Rick and Kub wasnt here for this, why are we talking about this again, move on.

The P-Buc deal
Rick and Kub wasnt here for this, why are we talking about this again, move on.

Kub and Rick have made solid moves without murdering the Cap, and are greatly improving this team. Show some faith people. We are looking at awesome cap space next year, we have made 5 SOLID moves in FA this year, and that is before the draft. Why cant you be happy for us?

I can't say I'm in any of those camps, but this offseason is killing me. Can't wait until camp, preseason, then the regular season. Kinda want this draft to be over too, just so I can go on with my life until the summer.

SamuraiSword
03-26-2007, 02:37 PM
Kub and Rick have done awesome this year making us really active in FA. But all the post i am seeing are like this.

We overpaid for Schaub.
We have had a horrible 5 years under Carr.
Kub and Rick are putting thier Careers on the line with the price we paid.
Kub dropped the ball last year with extending Carr.
We didnt draft Bush.
We didnt draft Vince.
Look at how horrible we drafted for the last 5 years.
We dropped Carr and Dom Williams with no comp.
We are out a second round pick next year.
The Babin deal
The P-Buc deal
etc.....

My Gawd. We have for the FIRST time a coach and GM who are only in thier first year at GM for Rick Smith and second year coach, and next they will know, they will be blamed for crime around houston. We have a HUGE amount of people here that have 'cangetover' condition, and might really need to see help about it. Why are we banging Kub for the Babin deal, or P-Buc deal, or how bad the draft was before he was here. Let me help. I will run these down for you so you will know and you can get on with being happy for the texans.

We overpaid for Schaub.
- No, we didnt. Experience (even though slightly) QB, most highly sought by ALL teams before the beginning of season. Ranked above all FA this year. Young, and most chance of winning we have had. 2nd this year is just like we drafted him, 2nd next year is all we lost. In addition, we got a WCO player since we run a WCO.

We have had a horrible 5 years under Carr.
And old news. He is gone. Give a good cry and move on.


Kub and Rick are putting thier Careers on the line with the price we paid.
They are credited for TRYING to make this team better. If you want to fire them for taking a chance, then go ahead. Personally, I would wait till Schaub actually plays a down for us, before I start making threats for Kubs and Rick.

Kub dropped the ball last year with extending Carr.
Sigh, Kub was trying to save the golden boy because of his QB coaching experience. He saw that he wasnt improving to the degree and decided we would win faster with someone without so much baggage.

We didnt draft Bush.
Yes, bush is awesome. But so is that arrogance to. There was no way he thought we would draft someone else and would have held out for big bucks. He had credibility issue, character issues, and they were to much for the Texans. Many other reasons, but you all heard them before. Move on.

We didnt draft Vince.
Many at the time of last years draft didnt think Vince was even possible of drafting because of him being to much of a unknown if he were to make the transition. Hind sight is 20 20. So how many teams passed on Ryans.. ahhh all 32, seeeeeeeeee.

Look at how horrible we drafted for the last 5 years.
Last year, we pick more starters then any year before. Why are we yelling about the other 4 years, because those doing the picking arent here anymore. If you want to complain about this, do it about last years picks.

We dropped Carr and Dom Williams with no comp.
They had little value with the high priced contracts they had, and teams knew we needed to dump him this year. Plus it helped our cap most by dumping them. Personally, I would want Rick and Kub concertrating on other deals then working a month trying to secure something he probably wouldnt get anything above a 4th for. Waste of time and effort.

We are out a second round pick next year.
Second rounder is hopefully, going to be around the middle or further down next year, so this doesnt bite too bad. However, we paid a cheaper price then what could have happen for Schaub, so be thankful we have good GM like Rick to get a decent deal.

The Babin deal
Rick and Kub wasnt here for this, why are we talking about this again, move on.

The P-Buc deal
Rick and Kub wasnt here for this, why are we talking about this again, move on.

Kub and Rick have made solid moves without murdering the Cap, and are greatly improving this team. Show some faith people. We are looking at awesome cap space next year, we have made 5 SOLID moves in FA this year, and that is before the draft. Why cant you be happy for us?

I don't understand why people are complaining we gave up too much for schaub. Their were no proven Qb's this comming draft and the only thing that was worth a damn was Adrian Peterson, but we all know he is going to cleveland. I wanted Plummer, but then he made his retirement plans short. Some people wanted to draft Quinn....glad that didn't happen. I am saying we didn't give up too much in my opinion. This is a good choice and we will be saying in the future David who?????

Cjeremy635
03-26-2007, 02:43 PM
Great post Dime and I agree 100%. I think that most people are just complainers by nature and it gives them something to talk about. I am very pleased at what they have done in the short amount of time they have been here. I am thankful that they cut the dead weight when they need to and make smart "football" decisions. All in all, I'm freakin' delighted about how things are going.

SHOCK AND AWE BABY......SHOCK AND AWE!!!!!! :joker:

Second Honeymoon
03-26-2007, 02:47 PM
Kub and Rick have done awesome this year making us really active in FA. But all the post i am seeing are like this.

We overpaid for Schaub. we wont really know until we see Schaub play.
We have had a horrible 5 years under Carr. correct.
Kub and Rick are putting thier Careers on the line with the price we paid. HC and GM careers are on the line every day
Kub dropped the ball last year with extending Carr. working with Carr was part and parcel of taking the Texans job. The decision was already made.
We didnt draft Bush. correct.
We didnt draft Vince. correct.
Look at how horrible we drafted for the last 5 years. yup, Casserley was horrible.
We dropped Carr and Dom Williams with no comp. there was no way we were getting anything for either of them due to their horrible contracts
We are out a second round pick next year. yes but we got a possible longterm solution at QB for 2 2nd Round picks. This allows us to keep our 1st Round pick in the Top10.
The Babin deal who didnt think that was a bad trade from Day One?
The P-Buc deal was happy about the deal until we cut errrr traded Glenn. PBuc as a nickel could have been nice behind Drob and Glenn
etc.....


i'm willing to give Kubs and RS some credit for not staying status quo another year. Locker room is much better now.
They only overpaid for Schaub if Scaub is a bust ala Carr. If he works out it was a steal and his contract is low risk as well.

texans83
03-26-2007, 02:55 PM
I agree on everything you have said. Ive preached it to alot of my friends that dissagree with us. I think a bunch of people dont know what they are talking about and just feel like arguing with us. I dont know what they are whinning abot. Im sick and tired of listining to the VY thing, I just tell them move to Tenessee and druel over him there.

Specnatz
03-26-2007, 02:57 PM
I agree 100%, I just wish certain people would shut up until the season starts because right now we are all talking out our butts until after the draft and spring training.

Schaub_to AJ_YES!
03-26-2007, 02:57 PM
Easy dude. They criticism will disappear (just the way Carr has disappeared) when the wins start piling up. This season can't start fast enough.

afcman
03-26-2007, 03:02 PM
Good post.

The VY "thing" bothers me because he's in our division. It wouldn't "hurt" as much if he was in the NFC.

BUT!!! That's the past now. And I'm SO pumped to get the next season started.

MYDAUGHTER'STEXANS
03-26-2007, 03:05 PM
Only time will tell, if this whole thing pans out for the Texans, since last year was a draft of a lifetime........time will tell if the Texans and Rick smith played thier cards right, this off season......:poker:

Second Honeymoon
03-26-2007, 03:05 PM
I agree on everything you have said. Ive preached it to alot of my friends that dissagree with us. I think a bunch of people dont know what they are talking about and just feel like arguing with us. I dont know what they are whinning abot. Im sick and tired of listining to the VY thing, I just tell them move to Tenessee and druel over him there.

yeah i cant stand the 'if we needed a QB we should have drafted one last year' argument. last time I checked, time machines werent invented yet...

Insideop
03-26-2007, 03:10 PM
Dime, I guess some people just like :deadhorse . The world is full of whiners, complainers, and the ones who like to inflate their on ego and say "I told you so." They just don't know when to let it go. JMHO!

DontTreadOnMe
03-26-2007, 03:13 PM
i agree with most of what you had to say. but, you have to understand that people have different opinions, and they are/should be encouraged to share their ideas/views. if not, what is the purpose of this forum?

Dime
03-26-2007, 03:21 PM
i agree with most of what you had to say. but, you have to understand that people have different opinions, and they are/should be encouraged to share their ideas/views. if not, what is the purpose of this forum?

I agree. But when you voice to over and over, AND some items are years old, you have to move on at some point, dont ya think?

Wolfiegrrl
03-26-2007, 03:23 PM
Great Job Dime! I'm going to copy your post and email it to my brother. Perhaps that will open his eyes to the fact that life as a Texans Fan is much better without Reggie Bush on the team.

I think this off-season has been amazing. We have secured veteran leadership in key back up posititions, brought in a great blocking RB, re-signed some great players for us from last year, and have brought in a young QB that wants everyone to know that he is here to help this team win! Man I can't wait until the first game of the season.

:redtowel: :dance2: :fans:

DontTreadOnMe
03-26-2007, 03:30 PM
I agree. But when you voice to over and over, AND some items are years old, you have to move on at some point, dont ya think?

yeah for sure... but that separates what kind of fans certain posters are. some fans are dedicated & are able to do their own research and formulate their own opinions (and share them on this forum!!!)..... but some fans (the ones still on reggie, VY, etc..) are the ones that probably watch sportscenter at night, and thats it. because everytime i hear that stuff, it is a literal echo of espn's 'experts'. but all that matters is that were texans fans, and we ROCK!

Ole Miss Texan
03-26-2007, 03:39 PM
Trading for Schaub, Cutting Carr, and admitting our mistakes looks like we finally grew some balls that we so desperately needed.

Wolfiegrrl
03-26-2007, 03:42 PM
What really gets me is that people don't want to see the forest for the trees. There are teams out there that had to wait 30 years before getting to the Superbowl. (Seahawks) And I don't see their fans running so darned hot and cold like the fans here.

As I told my brother, I'll be a Carr fan while he's playing for another team. But I think it was in the best interest of everyone to let him go. As for the Bush/VY debate, I keep hearing that Defense Wins Championships. How would these two guys fit into that formula?

I digress. I'm a Texans Fan first and foremost. I give the Front Office complete faith in their decision making. So far, this new staff has done one hell of a job finding talent as compared to the last staff.

:yahoo:

freedoggy77
03-26-2007, 03:43 PM
some ppl are idiots. kubs and rick are the best

The Pencil Neck
03-26-2007, 04:02 PM
I agree. I am so happy and excited about the direction the team is going that I don't know what to say.

I'm totally psyched about the upcoming season. I was totally psyched about last season and I was only expecting 5-6 wins. I'm expecting our first non-losing season next year.

humbleone
03-26-2007, 04:35 PM
So, since I am one of those that is as certain in my opinion that we did overpay for Schaub as you are that we didn't let take one last stab at this discussion thread in the interest of intellectual honesty.

#1 - This trade was clearly not the 1st choice for the FO that the pro-trade guys are so happy with these days. What was their first choice....BQuinn, Garcia, Ramsey, Plummer...some combination of the above? Therefore, by their own actions, the FO demonstrated that they preferred the value to the team by going a different direction, probably to use our #1 on Quinn. Pro-trade guys really should stop to consider what that is saying about how even the guys that pulled the trigger on this deal feel about how much they had to give up to make it happen.

#2 - Contrary to the opinion of Justice and others on this MB, just because someone thinks we paid too much for Schaub, it does not make us "thumb suckers", "chronic complainers" and certainly not "stupid"....Justice was way out of line today and I will be happy to compare brain pans with him any day of the week. Surely the common ground that we can all agree on is that we did give up a lot to get Schaub. Some, whose opinion I respect, say "but not too much", while others say..."yes too much". In any event, it is highly debatable IMO and will be more so in 4 weeks when the true costs of this deal have player names associated with it (like Landry probably)

#3 - Finally, often times the first reaction to something's value is the best one to go with in order to avoid the inevitable rationalization for a purchase already done. For example, most of us would be better off walking away from a car that gave us sticker shock rather than justifying why it was such a good deal after we talked ourselves into it. IMO, it is fair to say that the first reaction of the majority of people (including current and former NFL personnel) was something like "wow that's a lot to give up". In fact, many of them went on to speculate that Smith might have something else worked out for Carr to mitigate the cost of the deal.

Ole Miss Texan
03-26-2007, 04:44 PM
humbleone you do raise some good points.

However just because Matt Schaub wasn't the 1st QB to be talked about doesn't mean he isn't the best for the team. He could be or not, I'm not sure.

Conventional wisdom says explore your other options 1st before you go to a RFA that has a tender of a 1st and 3rd Rd picks.

I think the FO made a wise move. If the really wanted Quinn or Russell instead of Schaub, They could have packaged our 1st, 2nd and next years 2nd to move up to the 2nd or 3rd pick in the draft. They felt Schaub would be better to get and still have a top 10 first round pick this year instead of using that pick on a QB, no 2nd, no 2nd. We have 2 players instead of 1.

Garcia was an option to look into at all but he would cost less to get. Ramsey isn't as respect as a starter as Garcia or Schaub are. it's strictly because SCHAUB Was a Restricted Free Agent, so of course they are going to explore their other options 1st.

The Pencil Neck
03-26-2007, 04:49 PM
So, since I am one of those that is as certain in my opinion that we did overpay for Schaub as you are that we didn't let take one last stab at this discussion thread in the interest of intellectual honesty.

#1 - This trade was clearly not the 1st choice for the FO that the pro-trade guys are so happy with these days. What was their first choice....BQuinn, Garcia, Ramsey, Plummer...some combination of the above? Therefore, by their own actions, the FO demonstrated that they preferred the value to the team by going a different direction, probably to use our #1 on Quinn. Pro-trade guys really should stop to consider what that is saying about how even the guys that pulled the trigger on this deal feel about how much they had to give up to make it happen.

#2 - Contrary to the opinion of Justice and others on this MB, just because someone thinks we paid too much for Schaub, it does not make us "thumb suckers", "chronic complainers" and certainly not "stupid"....Justice was way out of line today and I will be happy to compare brain pans with him any day of the week. Surely the common ground that we can all agree on is that we did give up a lot to get Schaub. Some, whose opinion I respect, say "but not too much", while others say..."yes too much". In any event, it is highly debatable IMO and will be more so in 4 weeks when the true costs of this deal have player names associated with it (like Landry probably)

#3 - Finally, often times the first reaction to something's value is the best one to go with in order to avoid the inevitable rationalization for a purchase already done. For example, most of us would be better off walking away from a car that gave us sticker shock rather than justifying why it was such a good deal after we talked ourselves into it. IMO, it is fair to say that the first reaction of the majority of people (including current and former NFL personnel) was something like "wow that's a lot to give up". In fact, many of them went on to speculate that Smith might have something else worked out for Carr to mitigate the cost of the deal.

#1 - I've got no problem that they explored all their options. If they had wanted Quinn that bad, they could have put together a big package and moved up (and I think that would have been a bad move). With the UFA's, they could make offers but a lot hinged on whether the guy wanted to come here. They could have gotten Plummer if they had offered more but didn't consider the price worthwhile. After exploring all their options, they went with the trade. Personally, I didn't even think we were in the running for Schaub until they were announcing the trade but apparently, this had been in the works for at least a week or two. So this wasn't a last minute option.

#2 - I've got no problem if people think we paid too much for Schaub. That's an honest opinion and you could be right. I don't think you are but I've been wrong before... (but I'm usually right.) :)

#3 - Different people have different reactions. Some people like the trade; some people don't. Personally, I think that Smith did have something in place that he was working on with Carr and I think that McNair ordered Carr to be released. But even at that, I don't think the Schaub trade cost us that much. I think it has put our team into a very good position to win. And that's the bottom line.

StarStruck
03-26-2007, 04:58 PM
As I told my brother, I'll be a Carr fan while he's playing for another team. But I think it was in the best interest of everyone to let him go. As for the Bush/VY debate, I keep hearing that Defense Wins Championships. How would these two guys fit into that formula?
:yahoo:

Only if they are putting points on the board. Sure they can keep the opponents off the field and from scoring as much as possible, but if an offense doesn't put some points up they ain't winning jack. It isn't too often that games are won solely on interceptions. I thought the Texans defense was pretty good.

Texans_Chick
03-26-2007, 05:21 PM
It's a message board. I think it is good for people to express their concerns about football stuff and have an open and logical discussion. Some of that turns into whining and moaning, but that is just some people's deal.

I'm not very fond of the phrase "you people" though.

Honoring Earl 34
03-26-2007, 05:33 PM
I like the feeling of anticipation you get by not knowing much about the team .

Heck it's fun again .... go us .

The Pencil Neck
03-26-2007, 05:38 PM
I'm not very fond of the phrase "you people" though.

Well, you people rarely are.

TeamSport
03-26-2007, 05:44 PM
I agree,

A lot of people have been used to comlaining about Bush, Carr, Young etc. Now that Carr is gone and we are moving forward they seem to be having trouble moving on.

I would love to see this board make a new start this year and actually be a decent place to visit and post. Last season this place was painful. This year should be different, it may be hard for some to adjust...

Go Texans

Ells1626
03-26-2007, 05:44 PM
good post. I wanted to do this post but im lazy so thanks.:)

threetoedpete
03-26-2007, 06:03 PM
So, since I am one of those that is as certain in my opinion that we did overpay for Schaub as you are that we didn't let take one last stab at this discussion thread in the interest of intellectual honesty.

#1 - This trade was clearly not the 1st choice for the FO that the pro-trade guys are so happy with these days. What was their first choice....BQuinn, Garcia, Ramsey, Plummer...some combination of the above? Therefore, by their own actions, the FO demonstrated that they preferred the value to the team by going a different direction, probably to use our #1 on Quinn. Pro-trade guys really should stop to consider what that is saying about how even the guys that pulled the trigger on this deal feel about how much they had to give up to make it happen.

#2 - Contrary to the opinion of Justice and others on this MB, just because someone thinks we paid too much for Schaub, it does not make us "thumb suckers", "chronic complainers" and certainly not "stupid"....Justice was way out of line today and I will be happy to compare brain pans with him any day of the week. Surely the common ground that we can all agree on is that we did give up a lot to get Schaub. Some, whose opinion I respect, say "but not too much", while others say..."yes too much". In any event, it is highly debatable IMO and will be more so in 4 weeks when the true costs of this deal have player names associated with it (like Landry probably)

#3 - Finally, often times the first reaction to something's value is the best one to go with in order to avoid the inevitable rationalization for a purchase already done. For example, most of us would be better off walking away from a car that gave us sticker shock rather than justifying why it was such a good deal after we talked ourselves into it. IMO, it is fair to say that the first reaction of the majority of people (including current and former NFL personnel) was something like "wow that's a lot to give up". In fact, many of them went on to speculate that Smith might have something else worked out for Carr to mitigate the cost of the deal.

Thank you. I've been called suicidal and now a "you peoples" . We over paid....for a guy in all probablty we could fo had for the waiver wire price in '08. So it fixes the QB problem and now life can go on. Ya know after I called for being suicidal the other day I'm just about convinced, that the best thing is to let it play out let everyone soak up the euphroia of the deal and leave the Emperior has no clothes stuff alone. I'm with ya. I'll enjoy the ride as much as I'm going to enjoy the sticker shock come the end of October.


Yeah take Justice and the other cronicle writers with a grain of salt. This is just the build up pedistile stuff untill they can tear the guy down next year. Typical Houston comical game plan. You can set your watch by it. The chronicle beat writers are at their best when the team is at it's worst.

WaylonJennings67
03-26-2007, 06:04 PM
Great job by the FO this off-season. Looking forward to the draft. Given time, Kubes & Smith will rectify the damage done by the previous regime.

michaelm
03-26-2007, 06:23 PM
So, since I am one of those that is as certain in my opinion that we did overpay for Schaub as you are that we didn't let take one last stab at this discussion thread in the interest of intellectual honesty.

#1 - This trade was clearly not the 1st choice for the FO that the pro-trade guys are so happy with these days. What was their first choice....BQuinn, Garcia, Ramsey, Plummer...some combination of the above? Therefore, by their own actions, the FO demonstrated that they preferred the value to the team by going a different direction, probably to use our #1 on Quinn. Pro-trade guys really should stop to consider what that is saying about how even the guys that pulled the trigger on this deal feel about how much they had to give up to make it happen.

#1 - You are making an assumption that this wasn't the first choice of the FO. The truth is that we don't have enough inside information to know that. You state it as fact because it supports your argument, but it is speculation. I could speculate the we approached ATL first, and they were adamant about getting the 1st and 3rd round picks that were required under Schaub's RFA tender. I could speculate that we rejected that as too expensive, and only revisited the trade with ATL after exploring the other options. But the truth is, we fans really don't know.

#2 - Contrary to the opinion of Justice and others on this MB, just because someone thinks we paid too much for Schaub, it does not make us "thumb suckers", "chronic complainers" and certainly not "stupid"....Justice was way out of line today and I will be happy to compare brain pans with him any day of the week. Surely the common ground that we can all agree on is that we did give up a lot to get Schaub. Some, whose opinion I respect, say "but not too much", while others say..."yes too much". In any event, it is highly debatable IMO and will be more so in 4 weeks when the true costs of this deal have player names associated with it (like Landry probably)

#2 - OK, so we go with what you say is one of the Texans first choices, and go after Quinn. That either takes a trade up, or waiting on sheer luck for Quinn to fall to #8. EITHER of these options loses you Landry no matter how you spin it. At least now we have a 1st round pick to take Nelson if you want a safety.

IMO, Schaub/Nelson > Quinn/#39 pick (and that's if we DIDN'T have to use the second rounder to move up for Quinn).

#3 - Finally, often times the first reaction to somethings value is the best one to go with in order to avoid the inevitable rationalization for a purchase already done. For example, most of us would be better off walking away from a car that gave us sticker shock rather than justifying why it was such a good deal after we talked ourselves into it. IMO, it is fair to say that the first reaction of the majority of people (including current and former NFL personnel) was something like "wow that's a lot to give up". In fact, many of them went on to speculate that Smith might have something else worked out for Carr to mitigate the cost of the deal.

#3 - My opinion of the reaction of the majority of people around here is that the initial reaction was made before they actually considered what the cost actually was, and compared it to other scenarios like what it would have taken, in reality, for us to get Quinn.
You can call it sticker shock and use that as a basis for assessing the value of the trade, but maybe people just needed to really think about what the cost actually is. Maybe they do, in some cases, have different opinions of the trade than they initially did, but maybe it's because they have a better understanding of the situation than they did at the time...

My thoughts are in bold.

michaelm
03-26-2007, 06:31 PM
Thank you. I've been called suicidal and now a "you peoples" . .


If you're referring to me, technically I didn't call you suicidal.

What I said was "you sound so pessimistic all the time. It makes me wonder if you're not one flat tire, or missed rerun of My Name is Earl away from deciding to just end it all"

I really just wanted to post that again because it makes me laugh...

TwinSisters
03-26-2007, 06:47 PM
What really gets me is that people don't want to see the forest for the trees. There are teams out there that had to wait 30 years before getting to the Superbowl. (Seahawks) And I don't see their fans running so darned hot and cold like the fans here.

The Seahawks have a completely different 'dynamic' with their club. For one you have to travel about 12-18 hours over the mountains and through the trees before you could even find another football team.

They didn't have Bud for 35 years either, although they ALMOST got Bud back in the day.

5-6 years ago there was plenty of talk about firing Holmgren, starting Dilfer, passing a law to ban Paul Allen, start Kitna, no we don't need any country bumkins playing QB, trade for Brunell, bring back Largent, and always ending with well at least we don't have Bosworth anymore.

EDIT:
A yeah and the Front Office in Kirkland went through hell a few years ago. That was when Holmgren had to tell Paul Allen it was either him or his henchmen.

CVTexan
03-26-2007, 06:56 PM
Well, you people rarely are.

.... in response to Texans Chick
I'm not very fond of the phrase "you people" though.



LMAO now that is good stuff!! That is why I love this board. Just good "ole" entertainment, comic relief, compelling arguments and not to mention the most up to date Texan's news!! You guys are the best!

:fans:

The Pencil Neck
03-26-2007, 07:13 PM
.... in response to Texans Chick
I'm not very fond of the phrase "you people" though.



LMAO now that is good stuff!! That is why I love this board. Just good "ole" entertainment, comic relief, compelling arguments and not to mention the most up to date Texan's news!! You guys are the best!

:fans:

<pesci voice>
So I amuse you. Like I'm a... CLOWN!
</pesci voice>

DocBar
03-26-2007, 07:56 PM
Smith and Kubiak DO seem to be pulling out all the stops to make the club better, but I think I have an obligation, as fan of this team, to voice my opinions and concerns.
Everyone keeps mentioning that we don't have a 2nd round pick NEXT year. We don't have one THIS year, either. I understand WHY people say that, and what we paid for Schaub has been hashed over and over in other threads. I was one of the biggest whiners. I have since stopped and gotten on board, mostly. IMO, most of the people you're talking about, Dime, are people who are passionate about their team and want what's best(Please exclude all DC apologists. Again, that's in other threads) for the team.
Not everyone is going to be hooked on the Kool Aid. Just because the FO makes a move, it doesn't mean it was the right one or the popular one.We have been burned several times. We want to see results. Not making moves for the sake of making moves. Maybe most if it isn't this particular FO's fault, but the memory remains. 5 years of losing and taking 1 step forward and two steps back have taken their toll.
Smith is in his 1st true offseason as GM and seems to be doing pretty OK. Kubiak had his honeymoon last season. I expect a much better coaching performance this year.
I'm not going to counterpoint every single point you made. I agree somewhat with your sentiment, or at least your right, as a Texan fan, to have it. Suffice to say, there are going to be people(a whole LOT of them) who agree with just about anything the FO does and there are going to be some that agree with just about nothing the FO does. That's life on Message Boards. I, for one, love it and wouldn't have it any other way.
As for this year, I'm pretty damned excited about our chances and can hardly wait for the season opener. There are some holes left to fill, but that's why they have the draft and there's always the June 1st cuts.

Runner
03-26-2007, 08:14 PM
Just because the FO makes a move, it doesn't mean it was the right one or the popular one.We have been burned several times. We want to see results. Not making moves for the sake of making moves.

Many are still on the honeymoon with these coaches. I think that if some or most of these moves don't work out, these same people will be the biggest complainers. There will be a sense of betrayal when their trust isn't fully rewarded.

I'm not going to put the coaches on a pedestal until they've gotten results.

DocBar
03-26-2007, 08:17 PM
Many are still on the honeymoon with these coaches. I think that if some or most of these moves don't work out, these same people will be the biggest complainers. There will be a sense of betrayal when their trust isn't fully rewarded.

I'm not going to put the coaches on a pedestal until they've gotten results.
I think most posters are like me. I moaned and groaned and had my say, then I got Houston Texan wagon and helped push this team along like everyone else. You DO have the chronic complainers, though. Like people that whine about whiners!!!:)
EDIT: Maybe Carr's 8 mil option pick up should come out of Kubiaks pay....J/K

Pantherstang84
03-26-2007, 10:13 PM
This is a different angle to this discussion but...

If you want to know if a team is headed in the right direction or not look at the players...

Have the players drank the Kool Aid? Key points to remember...

1. Andre Johnson- There is no argument that this guy is one of our franchise players. He was due to hit free agency in the next year or two and get PAID by some other team. What did he do? He agreed to restructure and extend his contract to help the team out with cap space. He didn't have to do it. I wonder why he did?

2. Ahman Green- Sure he is considered over the hill for a RB. It appears he still has some left in the tank. The kind of back this team really needed even though it may be temporary. Loves to block blitzers, good hands out of the backfield, excellent ZBS runner. He had no less than 4 other teams seeking his services and could have gone to anyone of them. Why Houston?

3. Matt Schaub- He was traded to here for what some feel is a high price. However, he wants to be here. Knows the offense. Eager to get to work. Why?

My take is these guys feel this franchise is moving up and going places. They don't want to miss out on it. Folks, there is genuine excitement in the air for next season and the draft is not even here yet. Players are pumped.

Does that tell you anything?

It speaks volumes to me.

DocBar
03-26-2007, 10:36 PM
This is a diiferent angle to this discussion but...

If you want to know if a team is headed in the right direction or not look at the players...

Have the players drank the Kool Aid? Key points to remember...

1. Andre Johnson- There is no argument that this guy is one of our franchise players. He was do to hit free agency in the next year or two and get PAID by some other team. What did he do? He agreed to restructure and extend his contract to help the team out with cap space. He didn't have to do it. I wonder why he did?

2. Ahman Green- Sure he is considered over the hill for a RB. It appears he still has some left in the tank. The kind of back this team really needed even though it may be temporary. Loves to block blitzers, good hands out of the backfield, excellent ZBS runner. He had no less than 4 other teams seeking his services and could have gone to anyone of them. Why Houston?

3. Matt Schaub- He was traded to here for what some feel is a high price. However, he wants to be here. Knows the offense. Eager to get to work. Why?

My take is these guys feel this franchise is moving up and going places. They don't want to miss out on it. Folks, there is genuine excitement in the air for next season and the draft is not even here yet. Players are pumped.

Does that tell you anything?

It speaks volumes to me.

1) Andre IS the offensive franchise player and I thin we, as a whole, expect even greater things out of him this year. I'd like to see him be top5 in YAC, TD's and catches for 1st down.

2) I'm not sure what to think of Green, other than that he is an upgrade. 30 is the start of the decline, not the bottom of the hill. IMO, Green and Dayne can be a potent 1-2 punch.

3) Matt Schaub is an unproven QB that we invested heavily in. That QB COULD'VE been Jamarcus Russell, but it's not likely. Regardless, he IS the Texans QB and I hope all of our faith in him is paid up in spades. May our left tackle be quick and strong and may our RB be able to pick up the blitz.

HomeBred_Texan
03-26-2007, 11:20 PM
Can I complain that your post about complaining is too long to complain about...

DocBar
03-26-2007, 11:31 PM
Can I complain that your post about complaining is too long to complain about...Only if you don't mind complaints, cuz SOMEBODY will complain.