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View Full Version : ESPN Poll: Is Schaub The Right Man For The Texans?


Exithios
03-26-2007, 10:53 AM
http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/polling?event_id=2834&action=1&question20951=85484&question20952=85487&question20953=85488&question20954=85490&question20955=85492&question20956=85494&question20957=85497&question20958=85503&question20959=85506

Second Honeymoon
03-26-2007, 10:59 AM
interesting results to say the least

Rightnow
03-26-2007, 11:00 AM
better link to take the poll (http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/polling?event_id=2834)

Ole Miss Texan
03-26-2007, 11:04 AM
thanks for the heads up, i voted!

The Pencil Neck
03-26-2007, 11:11 AM
60% think that the Texans got the better of the deal.

We must have screwed up then.

gtexan02
03-28-2007, 01:55 PM
Check out this poll by ESPN. Some interesting answers:
Carr was not most to blame for our failures
AND
Houston got the better end of the deal

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/polling?event_id=2834

Take the poll!

powerfuldragon
03-28-2007, 02:05 PM
i think this poll was posted before.

powerfuldragon
03-28-2007, 02:06 PM
http://forums.houstontexans.com/showthread.php?t=37457

threetoedpete
03-28-2007, 02:13 PM
Wow 92 % believes DC wasn't the main problem. Who 'd of thunk it ?

threetoedpete
03-28-2007, 02:14 PM
4,3,2,1....move.

Slamee101
03-28-2007, 04:11 PM
Wow 92 % believes DC wasn't the main problem. Who 'd of thunk it ?

Would most of the Texans fans disagree?

I only say that b/c ESPN has strong influence over the casual fan...and I think perception and reality aren't all that close often times with regards to matters regarding teams that someone doesn't follow. I know I'd always heard that the problem in Houston was the O-line...however in talking to Texans fans...a ton of them seem to argue that Carr was the cause of many of those sacks. However, that 92% just goes off of what they heard more than anything. I can honestly say I was one of them as the last Texans game I actually saw was in '04.

The Pencil Neck
03-28-2007, 04:21 PM
Would most of the Texans fans disagree?

I only say that b/c ESPN has strong influence over the casual fan...and I think perception and reality aren't all that close often times with regards to matters regarding teams that someone doesn't follow. I know I'd always heard that the problem in Houston was the O-line...however in talking to Texans fans...a ton of them seem to argue that Carr was the cause of many of those sacks. However, that 92% just goes off of what they heard more than anything. I can honestly say I was one of them as the last Texans game I actually saw was in '04.


I think most casual fans think the o-line is/has been the biggest problem. Some serious hardcore fans think that the o-line is/has been the biggest problem.

We gave up 43 sacks last year. That's not great but that's nowhere near the worst in the league (the Raiders with 70). Lots of teams had that many or more sacks and they still had a passing game. The last half of the season, we had 2 TD passes.... and we were still able to go 4-4 in that stretch.

If you watch our games, you'll see times where the o-line breaks down. You'll see some times when the RB messes up on an assignment. But Carr reminds me a lot of Rob Johnson. A guy that's supposed to be mobile and athletic but gets sacked a lot because he doesn't have good pocket presence and he's not quick getting the ball out. And when he DOES force the ball out quickly, he makes bad decisions on where to put it.

Carr isn't our only problem but he was a big part of it.

South Texan
03-28-2007, 04:29 PM
Wow 92 % believes DC wasn't the main problem. Who 'd of thunk it ?

Maybe the general NFL fan base knows more about Capers/Casserly than I thought!

While Carr never developed the way I hoped he would, I lay more blame on the former administration for making way too many bad decisions. One that comes to mind is letting Sharper and Glenn get away with the idea P-Buc could replace them. Going further back, I never understood us getting a starting left tackle that had a questionable medical status.

Ahh, well... that was then, this is now, and so far I like the way the new administration is running things.

TEXANS84
03-28-2007, 04:30 PM
2) Is Carr most to blame for the Texans' struggles?


92.1% No

7.9% Yes


3) Does Matt Schaub give the Texans a better chance to win?


61.9% Yes

38.1% No
Doesn't this kind of contradict itself?

Texanfan4ever
03-28-2007, 05:29 PM
No, that doesn't contradict itself because Schaub hasn't spent 4 years on his back and acquired the fear factor of being smashed under pressure that David has had to indure. He might not panic quite so quickly because he hasn't lived that nightmare of abuse. That's why we might have a better chance with him.

kcwilson
03-28-2007, 05:42 PM
Maybe the general NFL fan base knows more about Capers/Casserly than I thought!

While Carr never developed the way I hoped he would, I lay more blame on the former administration for making way too many bad decisions. One that comes to mind is letting Sharper and Glenn get away with the idea P-Buc could replace them. Going further back, I never understood us getting a starting left tackle that had a questionable medical status.

Ahh, well... that was then, this is now, and so far I like the way the new administration is running things.

Agreed... you have to read the way the question was written...

Part 1 "Was Carr most to blame".... it does not excuse his poor play....
Part 2 "for the Texans' struggles"... so the definition of Texans' struggles is open to interpretation by the group as a whole.

For Part 2, many people probably think that the running game was a problem because of no DD and no Reggie Bush, and that isn't Carr's fault.
Also for Part 2, the Texans struggles could have been a bad secondary, no legit #2 receiver for a while, no Oline, coachign changes, bad trades, etc.

How do you define Texans' struggles, which in the grand scheme of things, ought to be "Losing". There are many reasons why teams lose and that is open to interpretation (building from the o/d lines out, poor coaching/leadership, bad drafts, etc.)

It isn't surprising to see 92% say Carr was "most" to blame... he deserves his share and then some, but not most.

thunderkyss
03-28-2007, 05:55 PM
Would most of the Texans fans disagree?


I would agree, that none of it is his fault. He got the crap beat out of him because of our ineptitude to manage his career.

The only problem I've had with David Carr, was that for years, he was being crammed down our throat as our best chance to win, & I don't believe he has been, ever.

I was fine with the role he was in last year, and I would have been fine if Kubiak decided to continue on, with David in that role. Our developing QB, regardless of his time in the league.

I was actually shocked by the events of this off-season.

I do believe that this team stands a better chance of winning with a new QB. Not that David caused us to lose a lot of games, but because we weren't very competitive with David behind center.

He's been a rookie QB for 5 years(not his fault), and I'm happy that our new QB is not a rookie. I understand there will still be some developing going on, but nothing like we've seen.

The Pencil Neck
03-28-2007, 05:56 PM
Doesn't this kind of contradict itself?

No. I don't even consider Carr to be the most to blame for our problems. I put that squarely on Casserly and Capers but most fans were probably thinking of our o-line.

The second answer there is just saying that most people think that Schaub is a better QB than Carr. Even though Carr isn't most to blame, we're still upgrading the QB position and that gives us a better chance to win.

Titan "Tack" Fan
03-28-2007, 06:33 PM
In related news, today I asked a random Raider fan at a bookstore who he wants them to draft and he said, "I want us to sign David Carr and draft the kid out of Georgia Tech."

Thought that was interesting.

The Pencil Neck
03-28-2007, 06:37 PM
In related news, today I asked a random Raider fan at a bookstore who he wants them to draft and he said, "I want us to sign David Carr and draft the kid out of Georgia Tech."

Thought that was interesting.

I'm not going to be surprised if it happens that way.

Slamee101
03-28-2007, 07:19 PM
I would agree, that none of it is his fault. He got the crap beat out of him because of our ineptitude to manage his career.

The only problem I've had with David Carr, was that for years, he was being crammed down our throat as our best chance to win, & I don't believe he has been, ever.

I was fine with the role he was in last year, and I would have been fine if Kubiak decided to continue on, with David in that role. Our developing QB, regardless of his time in the league.

I was actually shocked by the events of this off-season.

I do believe that this team stands a better chance of winning with a new QB. Not that David caused us to lose a lot of games, but because we weren't very competitive with David behind center.

He's been a rookie QB for 5 years(not his fault), and I'm happy that our new QB is not a rookie. I understand there will still be some developing going on, but nothing like we've seen.

Ahhh...thanks for the feedback!

thunderkyss
03-28-2007, 07:33 PM
In related news, today I asked a random Raider fan at a bookstore who he wants them to draft and he said, "I want us to sign David Carr and draft the kid out of Georgia Tech."

Thought that was interesting.

We've got kastofsna here, a Miami Dolphin fan, who would love to sign David, & most likely start him over Daunte Culpepper..... he'd probably like to cut Culpepper.

He's seen all the debates here, at least for the last year.

They blame our organization for beating the crap out of David, & think they can help him reclaim his college glory. Who knows, maybe they're right.

NFLforher
03-28-2007, 07:34 PM
Wow 92 % believes DC wasn't the main problem. Who 'd of thunk it ?


Me..and you. :joker:

NFLforher
03-28-2007, 07:36 PM
In related news, today I asked a random Raider fan at a bookstore who he wants them to draft and he said, "I want us to sign David Carr and draft the kid out of Georgia Tech."

Thought that was interesting.

Same thing where I live...most of the Raider Nation I've met want him.

tsip
03-28-2007, 09:19 PM
Same thing where I live...most of the Raider Nation I've met want him.

Raiders had 70+ sacks last year!!...yea, good fit there for David...why haven't they signed him, yet? What's everyone waiting for? C'mon, somebody sign David...

tsip
03-28-2007, 09:32 PM
"I would agree, that none of it is his fault"


Unreal. This is why David plays the way he does...he is not self-motivated, listens/accepts the excuses for his poor play,gets worse with his mechanics,lets his team mates take all the blame for the losses,gets his pay check, and goes play golf--wow, the life of a 'done wrong NFL qb.'

What will the next chapter be?...'second verse, same as the first'...only shorter next time....??

...pass me a hankie please

thunderkyss
03-28-2007, 09:48 PM
"I would agree, that none of it is his fault"


Unreal. This is why David plays the way he does...he is not self-motivated, listens/accepts the excuses for his poor play,gets worse with his mechanics,lets his team mates take all the blame for the losses,gets his pay check, and goes play golf--wow, the life of a 'done wrong NFL qb.'

What will the next chapter be?...'second verse, same as the first'...only shorter next time....??

...pass me a hankie please

Read the whole post. If David is in fact accepting the excuses for his poor play, if David is not motivated. then yeah, that is his fault.

I'm talking about Wins & Losses, I'm talking about the state of our franchise right now.

David is not a good QB. That's Capers fault as much as it is David's. Starting a poor QB who has not improved in any aspect of his game 5 years running.... That's McNair's fault. I can't blame David for that.

mexican_texan
03-28-2007, 09:54 PM
The Raiders saw him pass for negative yardage in person.

Koolaid Time
03-28-2007, 10:01 PM
The Raiders saw him pass for negative yardage in person.

That was my “Most Memorable David Carr Moment”... funny how people forgot about that.. negative passing yardage and still winning..

tsip
03-28-2007, 10:12 PM
Same thing where I live...most of the Raider Nation I've met want him.


http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/10092097

...sounds like someone needs to start a write-up campaign to Davis, using all of Carr's supporters/sub-supporters,etc. Heck, HC Kiffen was David's room mate in college...surely that counts for something...times a wastin'

Hervoyel
03-28-2007, 10:32 PM
Carr was not most to blame for our failures



I actually agreed with that and voted that Carr was not "most to blame for our failures". I think I read more into it than they intended though. I blame our failures on the path the team chose when they made him the first pick in the 2002 draft and opted to not begin building the team from the lines out as they had previously stated they planned to do.

Ultimately I put the burden of that on our leadership (aka Casserly & Capers). I gave McNair an out on that one because at the time that decision was made he clearly relied heavily on his football people to make that decision. If he did something like that today his name would be in there too.

HardKnockTexan
03-29-2007, 04:03 AM
Maybe I'm just loyal to a fault but I've always backed my team since day one. The moves they made that I didnt understand I chalked up to the decission makers having a better football mind than your's truley. When those decissions turned out to be obviously wrong I would look to see how our team from the top down learned and improved from the mistakes made. Looking back, it's easy to say that we should of sat Carr for a year and give him a veteran to understudy. But every player is different and progress and become motivated (and vise versa) by different situations. Sitting Carr for a year would of given him time to learn the speed of the game and possibly given him more confidence in the pocket but he was the face of our franchise. This is a business and Mr. McNair, as badley as he wants to win, wants to make money and fill the seats at the same time. Fans wanted to see our new team with our superstar #1 draft pick so he was thrown to the wolves... and he got eaten alive. I always had hope for him and every other player and coach involved with our team. Seeing the end of the Capers / Casserly era was bitter sweet for me. I knew deep down that it was time for a change but it hurt too. Putting all of my faith blindley behind my team only to be let down time and time again was a hard pill to swallow. Admitting failure and moving on isnt always easy. Now we have Schaub and once again I'm buying what they're selling me. I have hope and confidence that the right people are making decissions that will bring the only team I've ever loved from before they had a name a championship. Schaub is a big ? for me. I'm sure he is for everyone but if Kubiac and co. say he can get the job done then I think he can too. Texas, football, Houston and Houstonians are far too kickass to ever be held down for long. We make the sport of kings a gentleman's game. I'll be proud to say I've loved this team since their birth. The best times are only good because of how bad the worst times have been. Lets see how this rollercoaster of a season plays out.
-Just Jephrey

TwinSisters
03-29-2007, 04:26 AM
they needed to add two options.

How many Falcons games have you seen?
a. 0-3
b. 4-10
c. 10-30
d. 30+

How many Texans games have you seen?

Malloy
03-29-2007, 04:56 AM
Wow 92 % believes DC wasn't the main problem. Who 'd of thunk it ?

ESPN poll. The way I see it, the people voting are the same ones getting their news from ESPN. If ESPN says that Carr was not the problem, chances are that the ones participating in the poll thinks likewise.

Janus3
03-29-2007, 05:33 AM
Doesn't this kind of contradict itself?


no it doesn't

thunderkyss
03-29-2007, 08:17 AM
Maybe I'm just loyal to a fault but I've always backed my team since day one. The moves they made that I didnt understand I chalked up to the decission makers having a better football mind than your's truley. When those decissions turned out to be obviously wrong I would look to see how our team from the top down learned and improved from the mistakes made. Looking back, it's easy to say that we should of sat Carr for a year and give him a veteran to understudy. But every player is different and progress and become motivated (and vise versa) by different situations. Sitting Carr for a year would of given him time to learn the speed of the game and possibly given him more confidence in the pocket but he was the face of our franchise. This is a business and Mr. McNair, as badley as he wants to win, wants to make money and fill the seats at the same time. Fans wanted to see our new team with our superstar #1 draft pick so he was thrown to the wolves... and he got eaten alive. I always had hope for him and every other player and coach involved with our team. Seeing the end of the Capers / Casserly era was bitter sweet for me. I knew deep down that it was time for a change but it hurt too. Putting all of my faith blindley behind my team only to be let down time and time again was a hard pill to swallow. Admitting failure and moving on isnt always easy. Now we have Schaub and once again I'm buying what they're selling me. I have hope and confidence that the right people are making decissions that will bring the only team I've ever loved from before they had a name a championship. Schaub is a big ? for me. I'm sure he is for everyone but if Kubiac and co. say he can get the job done then I think he can too. Texas, football, Houston and Houstonians are far too kickass to ever be held down for long. We make the sport of kings a gentleman's game. I'll be proud to say I've loved this team since their birth. The best times are only good because of how bad the worst times have been. Lets see how this rollercoaster of a season plays out.
-Just Jephrey


This is a good post, and makes you think back to what was really happening back then.

IMHO, our biggest mistake was to allow David to continue to start after he'd been sacked 26 times in our first 4 games, with a record of 1-3. We weren't going to win anything that year, why kill the guy you just picked up with the #1 overall??

It would have been nothing against David. It shouldn't have looked bad on him, and I'd bet it would have helped his career tremendously, if we'd let David play the first half, or the first Qrt, then throw in our cheaper tackling Dummy.

We were trying to build a football team from the inside out, Pitts was a pretty good pickup, and his second year shows that. But trying to build that inside, and trying to train an NFL QB at the same time didn't ever make sense to me.

I think David's career should have gone similar to J.P. Losman's. The only difference is that we should have made it clear that he was playing limited time because of protection issues. We're still pleased with where David is/was at that time, we expect him to get a lot better, but until we can play better up front, he wouldn't be playing 4 Qtrs. Not in 2002.

2003, we did better protecting him. Sort of. There were only 2 games where he was sacked more than twice in a game, but he was injured in two games, and missed 4. In 2003, David was sacked 15 times in 12 games. So in the other 4 starts, and the 2 games he was injured, we managed to give up another 11 sacks.

2004 was David's break out year. It was Andre Johnson's break out year, it was DDW's breakout year. 2004 was the Texans Break out year. 3 years in it for David Carr. Surely we should've been past the point of pulling David out of games because of protection issues. But we still surrendered 16 sacks in the first 10 games. What was worse, than that, was David had fumbled the ball 16 times in those same 6 games. Sure, he was getting pounded. Doesn't matter, it is a problem that needs to be corrected. Had we sat David in 2004, after the Nashville game, the Texans may not have gone on to win 7 games that year. David, Andre, & DDW might not have had career years. But David might not be shell shocked now. He might be a better QB now. He might still be a Texan. 7-9 is the best we've ever done, but it's still a losing season. I'd rather we lost more games, than ruin our #1 overall franchise QB. As it stands now, we've got neither.

2005 I don't even know what happened. But David was sacked 5 times in week 1. 8 times in week 2, 7 times in week 3, 7 times in week 4. No other QB in this league would have started week 5. It doesn't matter who was to blame, and who wasn't. But your team has no chance of winning when you avg 6.75 sacks over the first 4 games of the year. I don't care who you fire.
Again, David might not be shell shocked. He might have actually been something Kubiak could work with. But then again, we might not have fired our coach.

2006 15 sacks in the first 5 games. 8 fumbles. If you're trying to win games, and this guy gives you your best chance of winning, you're pretty dang bad at evaluating QB talent. There's no way he should have started against Dallas, much less finish the Miami game. Especially knowing you have no confidence in him running your two minute offense. Especially when you're 1-4 on the season, what have you got to lose??

We were controlling the Dallas game, until we took the leash off our QB. Our defense won the remaining 5 games of the season. We did not have a QB who could have performed worse considering the role David played in our offense.

Wow, this post has gotten kinda long, and it looks like I've been bashing David. But that wasn't my point. It's not bashing to call a turnip a turnip. I'm actually trying to explain why I believe he is a turnip. Pulling David early in his career would have helped him tremendously(I do believe).

As an organization, I think we put the success of our "franchise QB" ahead of the success of our team. Had we taken the route Buffalo, or Baltimore had, and did whatever it took to win games, then David would be much better now. Losman knows what it's like to be on a winning team. He knows what it's like to earn a starting position. He knows he's got to make plays.

& Even though I think Losman is a better QB today than David Carr, I don't think he is more talented. It's a shame really.

SamuraiSword
03-29-2007, 09:06 AM
i am still shocked that 92% is not all David's fault. I hope DC returns to dumb capers. I want to play Miami and show david what a real QB can do. :dance2:

I saw the UVA vs NCSU game when Schaub was in college and was thinking he is going to be at home because the Texans offense is the same as the Virginia offense in my opinion. Plus Wali Lundy is on the same team as well when Schaub went to Virginia. What was even more funny is mario williams was his opponent now he will be his teammate. :)

NFLforher
03-29-2007, 09:16 AM
http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/10092097

...sounds like someone needs to start a write-up campaign to Davis, using all of Carr's supporters/sub-supporters,etc. Heck, HC Kiffen was David's room mate in college...surely that counts for something...times a wastin'



Al does what Al wants. My guess is that he'll want JR.

2BCF
03-29-2007, 09:28 AM
Wow 92 % believes DC wasn't the main problem. Who 'd of thunk it ?

Yep, looks like Hulk75 has been busy over there.

GP
03-29-2007, 09:46 AM
According to TK, maybe it was wrong for Capers to have DC in there while the protection issue was unresolved. Maybe he should have sat and waited until things were more suitable for him.

Vince Young came in and didn't have a problem, and that's not exactly a Titans team that is spectacular in any area.

David's throwing mechanics are so blatantly bad. His inability to read a defense pre-snap is fairly obvious. And let's not get into how he doesn't hold his teammates accountable for THEIR mistakes...you have GOT to man up and chew some rear if you want to lead a team, and David never did that--He allowed mistakes by others because, IMO, he didn't want to blame others. He was too nice.

All of that led Kubiak to becoming the guy on the sideline who rubs his forehead and puts his hand over his mouth so the children at home watching TV wouldn't see what cuss words were coming out of his mouth.

I doubt that David landing with another team is going to erase all the things that are part a of his personality and nature.

And as soon as he makes a few blunders, the process will begin all over again...except this time it won't be with us.

THEN let's see that poll again.

GP
03-29-2007, 09:47 AM
Yep, looks like Hulk75 has been busy over there.

LOL.

Good one.

He must also be the person who votes for Sanjaya on American Idol each week.

I see the connection there. "It's not Sanjaya's fault! The judges are just a bunch of haters!"

Titan "Tack" Fan
03-29-2007, 12:07 PM
The falcons have never had back to back winning seasons. Pretty lame.

The Pencil Neck
03-29-2007, 12:35 PM
The falcons have never had back to back winning seasons. Pretty lame.

Unfortunately, neither have we. But they've had a lot more opportunities and hopefully by our 30th-40th season, we'll at least have 1 winning season and put a couple of those back to back.

jppaul
03-29-2007, 12:48 PM
LOL.

Good one.

He must also be the person who votes for Sanjaya on American Idol each week.

I see the connection there. "It's not Sanjaya's fault! The judges are just a bunch of haters!"

Thats just hilarious :joker:

edo783
03-29-2007, 12:49 PM
Unfortunately, neither have we. But they've had a lot more opportunities and hopefully by our 30th-40th season, we'll at least have 1 winning season and put a couple of those back to back.

Uh, I don't think we have had a back yet, much less a back to back winning season yet.

MATRIX
03-29-2007, 02:43 PM
Results as of 245pm CST...interesting.

1) Was it time to for the Texans to part ways with David Carr?


55.7% Yes

44.3% No


2) Is Carr most to blame for the Texans' struggles?


92.1% No

7.9% Yes


3) Does Matt Schaub give the Texans a better chance to win?


62.3% Yes

37.7% No


4) Does Carr still have a future as a starting quarterback in the NFL?


87.3% Yes

12.7% No


5) Did the Falcons make a mistake by trading Schaub and committing to Michael Vick?


61.0% Yes

39.0% No


6) Which quarterback would give the Falcons the best chance at reaching the Super Bowl?


55.1% Matt Schaub

44.9% Michael Vick


7) Which of the following statements best describes your thoughts on Vick?


59.5% He's tremendously talented, but doesn't have what it takes to win a championship.

30.6% As good as he is, he needs a better supporting cast if the Falcons are to win a title.

9.9% He's only 26 years old and is getting better. He will win a title before his career is over.


8) If Carr leaves the Texans, which NFL franchise would be the best fit for him?


37.9% Miami Dolphins

17.3% Minnesota Vikings

13.1% Detroit Lions

12.2% Other

10.9% Tampa Bay Buccaneers

8.6% Cleveland Browns


9) Which team got the better end of this deal?


61.1% Houston

38.9% Atlanta


Total Votes: 21,517

tsip
03-29-2007, 05:24 PM
8) If Carr leaves the Texans, which NFL franchise would be the best fit for him?


37.9% Miami Dolphins

17.3% Minnesota Vikings

13.1% Detroit Lions

12.2% Other

10.9% Tampa Bay Buccaneers

8.6% Cleveland Browns

The answers to this question sum up this poll, for me-why are the Bucs on here? They list 6 QB's on their roster. Too, Gruden says he wants a proven/successfu' QB...ain't David.