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Imatexanfan
03-25-2007, 10:38 PM
First let me go through how a trade starts in the NFL. :poker:

Okay look every GM has every other GM's direct line phone number. They also have cell phone numbers, but nobody uses those initially, because it's considered rude. You call back someone who called your office, and if his assistant tells you to call the cell you do.

Talks usually start like this: "Mike, I'm calling to add my name to the list."

"Which list?"

"Folks wanting to know what you want for Carr. We might have some interest."

"I wondered if I was gonna hear from you. What are you thinking?"

And here we have the first major point in the discussion. He who admits first, loses. The calling GM will ALWAYS say something like, "hadn't really thought much more than that we're interested. What kind of offers are you taking seriously?"

"Hadn't really gotten any we're taking seriously or he'd be gone Jim. You know me!"

They'll BS like this until one guy says something. Usually it's the caller who has to fess up. And, they ALWAYS say "I heard you got offered a third and an OL for him. I might could work something like that," whether he heard that or not.

Anyway, that's the way a trade typically goes down, or at least starts, as ridiculous as it sounds. Just like hustin' for you fella's that know what I mean. :lightbulb:

So, I have heard from an irrefutable source that those conversations took place with the following teams:

Detroit
Miami (not sure why)
Oakland
Kansas City (also not sure why)
Seattle (makes me wonder about Hasselbeck's shoulder).

I don't know what they all talked about (other than Detroit), or who else may have called, but that's at least a partial list.

So to get to my point............ look there had to be SOMEONE who was willing to restructure David's contract, sign him to a 5 year deal and rework the final year of our contract, and give us SOMETHING for him, even if it was a spare part OL or a 5th round draft pick.

I don't care what Richard Justice says, we got nothing when we could have had something.

The WORST part of this whole deal is that Kubiak came in here and RE-annointed David as THE GUY, made sure he got a fatass bonus that is going to kick our asses this year when Carr isn't even here, and then a mere 16 games later decides to mortgage the future for someone else and can Carr.

I seriously don't get it. One season where the guy completes 68+% of his passes, has nearly his highest QB rating ever, and does it all with NO RB and NO OL, and that's a reason 365 days after giving him 8 million bucks to fire him? :confused:

You know all for the Texans but either Kubiak/Smith are IDIOTS for cutting the guy, or they were IDIOTS for giving him all that money last year. One way or the other they have made MONUMENTAL F-ups in a very short period of time with this organization. Its going to take alot for me to get the respect that I had for Kubes when he was hired.

Passing on Young/Leinart/Cutler and signing David to an ENORMOUS tender, and then outright cutting him without getting anything is INSANE. Which we will never get off that subject. On top of that, they took a career backup 3rd round draft choice who happens to have a little buzz about him, and threw him into the same crappy position Carr was in; No OL, no RB, one WR, and a porous defense that can't keep you off the field.

It does seem to be very confusing though. Perhaps Big Daddy Bob was just doing Carr yet another favor. Its just like you want to......what now?!:wild:

ledzeppelin229
03-25-2007, 10:48 PM
First let me go through how a trade starts in the NFL. :poker:

Okay look every GM has every other GM's direct line phone number. They also have cell phone numbers, but nobody uses those initially, because it's considered rude. You call back someone who called your office, and if his assistant tells you to call the cell you do.

Talks usually start like this: "Mike, I'm calling to add my name to the list."

"Which list?"

"Folks wanting to know what you want for Carr. We might have some interest."

"I wondered if I was gonna hear from you. What are you thinking?"

And here we have the first major point in the discussion. He who admits first, loses. The calling GM will ALWAYS say something like, "hadn't really thought much more than that we're interested. What kind of offers are you taking seriously?"

"Hadn't really gotten any we're taking seriously or he'd be gone Jim. You know me!"

They'll BS like this until one guy says something. Usually it's the caller who has to fess up. And, they ALWAYS say "I heard you got offered a third and an OL for him. I might could work something like that," whether he heard that or not.

Anyway, that's the way a trade typically goes down, or at least starts, as ridiculous as it sounds. Just like hustin' for you fella's that know what I mean. :lightbulb:

So, I have heard from an irrefutable source that those conversations took place with the following teams:

Detroit
Miami (not sure why)
Oakland
Kansas City (also not sure why)
Seattle (makes me wonder about Hasselbeck's shoulder).

I don't know what they all talked about (other than Detroit), or who else may have called, but that's at least a partial list.

So to get to my point............ look there had to be SOMEONE who was willing to restructure David's contract, sign him to a 5 year deal and rework the final year of our contract, and give us SOMETHING for him, even if it was a spare part OL or a 5th round draft pick.

I don't care what Richard Justice says, we got nothing when we could have had something.

The WORST part of this whole deal is that Kubiak came in here and RE-annointed David as THE GUY, made sure he got a fatass bonus that is going to kick our asses this year when Carr isn't even here, and then a mere 16 games later decides to mortgage the future for someone else and can Carr.

I seriously don't get it. One season where the guy completes 68+% of his passes, has nearly his highest QB rating ever, and does it all with NO RB and NO OL, and that's a reason 365 days after giving him 8 million bucks to fire him? :confused:

You know all for the Texans but either Kubiak/Smith are IDIOTS for cutting the guy, or they were IDIOTS for giving him all that money last year. One way or the other they have made MONUMENTAL F-ups in a very short period of time with this organization. Its going to take alot for me to get the respect that I had for Kubes when he was hired.

Passing on Young/Leinart/Cutler and signing David to an ENORMOUS tender, and then outright cutting him without getting anything is INSANE. Which we will never get off that subject. On top of that, they took a career backup 3rd round draft choice who happens to have a little buzz about him, and threw him into the same crappy position Carr was in; No OL, no RB, one WR, and a porous defense that can't keep you off the field.

It does seem to be very confusing though. Perhaps Big Daddy Bob was just doing Carr yet another favor. Its just like you want to......what now?!:wild:

Could be possible that DC didn't want to go to those places and therefore wouldn't restructure his contract. He really had nothing to gain by being traded somewhere...once he was released he could negotiate with anyone he wanted.

Tulip
03-25-2007, 10:49 PM
You are not sure why Detroit or Miami would have contacted the Texans about Carr? Really?

IMO, the pick had to be high enough to justify taking the additional $2 million cap hit for trading Carr rather than cutting him.

If Carr didn't like a team, he could just refuse to restructure his contract.

Lots of things could have have factored into a team's interest not resulting in a trade. It's not odd that Carr had to be cut in the end.

ArlingtonTexan
03-25-2007, 11:19 PM
If Carr didn't like a team, he could just refuse to restructure his contract.



If Carr refused to restructure his contract, it did not matter if some team offer 1st round choices for the next 5 years.

texaslifter
03-25-2007, 11:21 PM
First let me go through how a trade starts in the NFL. :poker:

Okay look every GM has every other GM's direct line phone number. They also have cell phone numbers, but nobody uses those initially, because it's considered rude. You call back someone who called your office, and if his assistant tells you to call the cell you do.

Talks usually start like this: "Mike, I'm calling to add my name to the list."

"Which list?"

"Folks wanting to know what you want for Carr. We might have some interest."

"I wondered if I was gonna hear from you. What are you thinking?"

And here we have the first major point in the discussion. He who admits first, loses. The calling GM will ALWAYS say something like, "hadn't really thought much more than that we're interested. What kind of offers are you taking seriously?"

"Hadn't really gotten any we're taking seriously or he'd be gone Jim. You know me!"

They'll BS like this until one guy says something. Usually it's the caller who has to fess up. And, they ALWAYS say "I heard you got offered a third and an OL for him. I might could work something like that," whether he heard that or not.

Anyway, that's the way a trade typically goes down, or at least starts, as ridiculous as it sounds. Just like hustin' for you fella's that know what I mean. :lightbulb:

So, I have heard from an irrefutable source that those conversations took place with the following teams:

Detroit
Miami (not sure why)
Oakland
Kansas City (also not sure why)
Seattle (makes me wonder about Hasselbeck's shoulder).

I don't know what they all talked about (other than Detroit), or who else may have called, but that's at least a partial list.

I.

So to get to my point............ look there had to be SOMEONE who was willing to restructure David's contract, sign him to a 5 year deal and rework the final year of our contract, and give us SOMETHING for him, even if it was a spare part OL or a 5th round draft pick.

I don't care what Richard Justice says, we got nothing when we could have had something.

The WORST part of this whole deal is that Kubiak came in here and RE-annointed David as THE GUY, made sure he got a fatass bonus that is going to kick our asses this year when Carr isn't even here, and then a mere 16 games later decides to mortgage the future for someone else and can Carr.

II.

I seriously don't get it. One season where the guy completes 68+% of his passes, has nearly his highest QB rating ever, and does it all with NO RB and NO OL, and that's a reason 365 days after giving him 8 million bucks to fire him? :confused:

You know all for the Texans but either Kubiak/Smith are IDIOTS for cutting the guy, or they were IDIOTS for giving him all that money last year. One way or the other they have made MONUMENTAL F-ups in a very short period of time with this organization. Its going to take alot for me to get the respect that I had for Kubes when he was hired.

Passing on Young/Leinart/Cutler and signing David to an ENORMOUS tender, and then outright cutting him without getting anything is INSANE. Which we will never get off that subject. On top of that, they took a career backup 3rd round draft choice who happens to have a little buzz about him, and threw him into the same crappy position Carr was in; No OL, no RB, one WR, and a porous defense that can't keep you off the field.

It does seem to be very confusing though. Perhaps Big Daddy Bob was just doing Carr yet another favor. Its just like you want to......what now?!:wild:

I.

It's been stated a hundred times on this board, on other boards, espn, the chronicle, etc. Its not just the other teams that would have to restructure the contract, Carr would have had to agree. The fact that we released him instead of trading him leads me to believe he was being uncooperative with this. Its just common sense, Kubiak and Smith aren't in the positions they are because they are dumber than fans posting on a message board.

II.

Bringing up David Carr's passer rating as evidence for him showing improvement is just ignorant to what actually happened. Passer rating does not account for fumbled snaps, dump off passes, etc. I'm sure there are a hundred people here who can explain better than I, but the general point is that the dump off passes artificially inflated his completion % as well as his passer rating. His quality of play was not nearly as good as the numbers suggest.

MATRIX
03-25-2007, 11:31 PM
I already said this before.

I talked to someone who works with a Texans play as an agent.

Carr himself had teams interested...but wouldn't come off his current deal. So, they all backed off. And they were smart to do so, now he has no deal and got some money. Now they can sign him as I said before for say 3M total, 1M for a base, 1M if he plays 50-75% of the games and the last 1M if he plays well.

We had no choice seeing we didn't want to pay him the full price this year if he was going to ride the bench behind Schaub. The only thing I have wonderered about the whole deal is 3 things.

1-Was Kubes just extending Carr's deal to get the job, or did he feel hewas worth it?

2- With the thread starters points...no OL, no RB. Could/would Carr of played better this year including making more than 3-7yd throws. With ourFA OL guys filling in if needed and with experience. And with Dayne back and Green onboard. Guess we will never know.

3- Was the Sage talk in reality BS of him starting to wake Carr up? As we can see now...they NEVER planned to start Sage.

keyser
03-26-2007, 12:07 AM
It's been stated a hundred times on this board, on other boards, espn, the chronicle, etc. Its not just the other teams that would have to restructure the contract, Carr would have had to agree. The fact that we released him instead of trading him leads me to believe he was being uncooperative with this. Its just common sense, Kubiak and Smith aren't in the positions they are because they are dumber than fans posting on a message board.


Of course Carr would have to agree - he'll have to agree to a contract wherever he signs next. In effect, though, he could still choose the team he wanted to go to as much as he'll be able to as a free agent.

The fact that Carr was just outright released probably means one of:
a) like you said, Carr was being uncooperative.
b) McNair was doing him a favor.
c) the Texans FO messed up by thinking they had a trade in place that then evaporated once they signed Schaub, or otherwise messing up on their options.
d) the Texans decided they needed the cap space sooner than they could afford to wait (I don't think this is the case, though, and it's easy enough for someone to check.).

My personal guess is that b is the main reason, but there's probably some combination of the first 3.

If (a) was the only reason, the Texans could have just held onto him for a while - he might have eventually changed his mind, as his value would tend to drop after the draft. That is, if the Texans were willing to play hardball, they probably could have gotten _something_ for Carr. But, even though it might not be the main reason, (a) must have had something to do with it - it makes no sense that he'd be released for no team benefit unless that's what he wanted.

It doesn't make sense that (c) is the main reason - that would be pure incompetence. Like you said, Smith didn't get where he is for no reason. But, if there's any truth to any teams showing interest, the Texans did mishandle it to a degree - they end up with nothing when they could have had something. There were reports that the Texans were initially asking for too much from other teams.

I think it comes down to (b). Carr had some resistance to the trade, and the team didn't manage to get anything in place by the time of the Schaub deal. And so, McNair chose to let Carr have what he wanted, rather than try to squeeze something out of the situation.

MojoX
03-26-2007, 12:13 AM
Of course Carr would have to agree - he'll have to agree to a contract wherever he signs next. In effect, though, he could still choose the team he wanted to go to as much as he'll be able to as a free agent.

The fact that Carr was just outright released probably means one of:
a) like you said, Carr was being uncooperative.
b) McNair was doing him a favor.
c) the Texans FO messed up by thinking they had a trade in place that then evaporated once they signed Schaub, or otherwise messing up on their options.
d) the Texans decided they needed the cap space sooner than they could afford to wait (I don't think this is the case, though, and it's easy enough for someone to check.).

My personal guess is that b is the main reason, but there's probably some combination of the first 3.

If (a) was the only reason, the Texans could have just held onto him for a while - he might have eventually changed his mind, as his value would tend to drop after the draft. That is, if the Texans were willing to play hardball, they probably could have gotten _something_ for Carr. But, even though it might not be the main reason, (a) must have had something to do with it - it makes no sense that he'd be released for no team benefit unless that's what he wanted.

It doesn't make sense that (c) is the main reason - that would be pure incompetence. Like you said, Smith didn't get where he is for no reason. But, if there's any truth to any teams showing interest, the Texans did mishandle it to a degree - they end up with nothing when they could have had something. There were reports that the Texans were initially asking for too much from other teams.

I think it comes down to (b). Carr had some resistance to the trade, and the team didn't manage to get anything in place by the time of the Schaub deal. And so, McNair chose to let Carr have what he wanted, rather than try to squeeze something out of the situation.
Well, Carr's brother, Hulk75, posted that there was no way Carr was gonna renegotiate his deal. Hulk75 said that the Texans were asking for too much, but he also said what sums up to that Carr wasn't going to cooperate with the Texans. Carr really was in the driver's seat on this. If the Texans wanted to play hardball, Carr could have played harder ball. The Texans, thanks to past bad contracts, were/are in salary cap hell. This gave Carr leverage, as the team would have been hamstrung to make other moves if they continued to incur Carr's cap hit. The team is still facing the rest of free agency, the draft, other cuts, etc.

Bottom line: the real mistake was picking up Carr's option. Carr's release was just a natural extension of that.

keyser
03-26-2007, 02:31 AM
Well, Carr's brother, Hulk75, posted that there was no way Carr was gonna renegotiate his deal. Hulk75 said that the Texans were asking for too much, but he also said what sums up to that Carr wasn't going to cooperate with the Texans. Carr really was in the driver's seat on this. If the Texans wanted to play hardball, Carr could have played harder ball. The Texans, thanks to past bad contracts, were/are in salary cap hell. This gave Carr leverage, as the team would have been hamstrung to make other moves if they continued to incur Carr's cap hit. The team is still facing the rest of free agency, the draft, other cuts, etc.


All the leverage was not on Carr's side. True, he'd be released eventually, but the longer the Texans held on to him, the less likely he was to get a bigger payday elsewhere. Teams are going to make sure that they're set in terms of starting QB by the time the draft is over. If the Texans held Carr past the draft, he'd have much more trouble negotiating a good deal.

Not to mention that he could have just been traded for a conditional pick. So, if he went to a team and they couldn't work out a deal with him, they'd release him, with no draft pick changing hands. In that scenario, we'd still end up with nothing, but if they were able to work something out, at least we'd have something to show for it.

Also, according to the houstonprofootball.com statistics, it looks like cutting Carr (and Williams) actually hurts our cap (until June 1, when it will go down - we'd subsequently use that to sign our rookies, I imagine), as we have to carry their salary against the cap until then anyway! So, the early release (assuming they're designated as June 1 cuts) doesn't help at all against the cap - I don't think this was really an issue in releasing him now instead of on May 31.

The Pencil Neck
03-26-2007, 02:55 AM
All the leverage was not on Carr's side. True, he'd be released eventually, but the longer the Texans held on to him, the less likely he was to get a bigger payday elsewhere. Teams are going to make sure that they're set in terms of starting QB by the time the draft is over. If the Texans held Carr past the draft, he'd have much more trouble negotiating a good deal.

Well, yes and no. There are always unexpected injuries. If we had held on to him, there was a possibility that someone was going to have some sort of emergency where they really needed a veteran QB and fast (like when Vick broke his leg or when Pennington broke his arm.) In that sort of situation, we'd have more of a chance of being able to move him and get something. Depending on how bad their situation was, we might even have been able to do that without having to have him agree to restructure his deal (although the odds were against that.)

Him being released gives him all the power in choosing who he wants to go to (if there are multiple bidders.)

And if he's worried about getting the best contract, he shouldn't be too quick to sign on with a team. If he waits until someone has an emergency situation, he can probably get a better deal than if he just takes the best offer available now. OTOH, if he wants to be successful, he should sign as soon as possible so he can take part in all the training camp stuff and start learning the new offense asap.

SamuraiSword
03-26-2007, 02:59 AM
First let me go through how a trade starts in the NFL. :poker:

Okay look every GM has every other GM's direct line phone number. They also have cell phone numbers, but nobody uses those initially, because it's considered rude. You call back someone who called your office, and if his assistant tells you to call the cell you do.

Talks usually start like this: "Mike, I'm calling to add my name to the list."

"Which list?"

"Folks wanting to know what you want for Carr. We might have some interest."

"I wondered if I was gonna hear from you. What are you thinking?"

And here we have the first major point in the discussion. He who admits first, loses. The calling GM will ALWAYS say something like, "hadn't really thought much more than that we're interested. What kind of offers are you taking seriously?"

"Hadn't really gotten any we're taking seriously or he'd be gone Jim. You know me!"

They'll BS like this until one guy says something. Usually it's the caller who has to fess up. And, they ALWAYS say "I heard you got offered a third and an OL for him. I might could work something like that," whether he heard that or not.

Anyway, that's the way a trade typically goes down, or at least starts, as ridiculous as it sounds. Just like hustin' for you fella's that know what I mean. :lightbulb:

So, I have heard from an irrefutable source that those conversations took place with the following teams:

Detroit
Miami (not sure why)
Oakland
Kansas City (also not sure why)
Seattle (makes me wonder about Hasselbeck's shoulder).

I don't know what they all talked about (other than Detroit), or who else may have called, but that's at least a partial list.

So to get to my point............ look there had to be SOMEONE who was willing to restructure David's contract, sign him to a 5 year deal and rework the final year of our contract, and give us SOMETHING for him, even if it was a spare part OL or a 5th round draft pick.

I don't care what Richard Justice says, we got nothing when we could have had something.

The WORST part of this whole deal is that Kubiak came in here and RE-annointed David as THE GUY, made sure he got a fatass bonus that is going to kick our asses this year when Carr isn't even here, and then a mere 16 games later decides to mortgage the future for someone else and can Carr.

I seriously don't get it. One season where the guy completes 68+% of his passes, has nearly his highest QB rating ever, and does it all with NO RB and NO OL, and that's a reason 365 days after giving him 8 million bucks to fire him? :confused:

You know all for the Texans but either Kubiak/Smith are IDIOTS for cutting the guy, or they were IDIOTS for giving him all that money last year. One way or the other they have made MONUMENTAL F-ups in a very short period of time with this organization. Its going to take alot for me to get the respect that I had for Kubes when he was hired.

Passing on Young/Leinart/Cutler and signing David to an ENORMOUS tender, and then outright cutting him without getting anything is INSANE. Which we will never get off that subject. On top of that, they took a career backup 3rd round draft choice who happens to have a little buzz about him, and threw him into the same crappy position Carr was in; No OL, no RB, one WR, and a porous defense that can't keep you off the field.

It does seem to be very confusing though. Perhaps Big Daddy Bob was just doing Carr yet another favor. Its just like you want to......what now?!:wild:

wow so everyone that is learning and being groomed is a career backup to you? wow glad you are not a coach.....

shanden
03-26-2007, 03:11 AM
Hulk was right about Carr's position. Didn't want to budge.

Smith's interview after the release was that Carr's agent requested the release to McNair. Smith was working on a trade at the time (supposedly a third rounder) and was told to honor the request by McNair. So he did.

Really the only question remaining was whether Kubiak was pressured to believe in Carr in order to be HC or if he really thought Carr's issues were fixable in one season. The answer is probably a bit of both.

beerlover
03-26-2007, 03:39 AM
good post Imatexanfan, I sense alot of the same frustration :brickwall

Lork also had a good post with opposing viewpoint a day ago :)

so let me respond with the mb are functioning as intended to help fans express their feelings in an open honest forum. we should thank our mods for providing a service of mental health & well being to all Texan fans :tearup:

Jimpster
03-26-2007, 07:31 AM
good post Imatexanfan, I sense alot of the same frustration :brickwall



I'll second the motion!

noxiousdog
03-26-2007, 09:05 AM
I seriously don't get it. One season where the guy completes 68+% of his passes, has nearly his highest QB rating ever, and does it all with NO RB and NO OL, and that's a reason 365 days after giving him 8 million bucks to fire him? :confused:


Because that 68% completion rating was fool's gold.

His yards per completion ranked #63 out of 67 quarterbacks that threw a pass last year. Of those that threw 100, he's dead last.

David was sacked every 10 attempts and Sage Rosenfels once every 40.

Here's two stat lines:
1673 comp 2963 att 56.5% 20261 yds 123 TD 92 int <- 6 years (two half seasons)
1243 comp 2070 att 60.0% 13391 yds 59 TD 65 int <- 5 years

One is Aaron Brooks, one is David Carr.

What would you trade away to get Aaron Brooks?

MojoX
03-26-2007, 01:36 PM
Hulk was right about Carr's position. Didn't want to budge.

Smith's interview after the release was that Carr's agent requested the release to McNair. Smith was working on a trade at the time (supposedly a third rounder) and was told to honor the request by McNair. So he did.

Which interview are you referring to? When and where did Smith say this? If McNair really did overrule Smith to get Carr released, that is major news. I mean, the owner possibly screwing his own team out of a potential draft pick?!

Imatexanfan
03-26-2007, 10:09 PM
Well I don't think Rick Smith had nothing to do with keeping Carr so I am not so sure how ya'll can come to the conclusion that he sucks. Who knows about Kubiak, maybe he had to endorse Carr to get the job. It seemed almost everyone else knew Carr sucked after the 05 season, with the exception of a few Aggie fans and Carr's relatives that post on the this board.(not mentioning no names or anything) :this:

Hell, I think they should at least give wonger need food a scouting job. He was the first one to point out the suckness that is Carr (at least 2 seasons before it came extremely obvious), this was while many of us were still buying into all the excuses and hype. So I say looks like no more Carr homers here, looks like you won this one wonger, I'll getcha though.:joker:

Luv Ya Blue 2007
03-26-2007, 10:26 PM
Passing on Young/Leinart/Cutler and signing David to an ENORMOUS tender, and then outright cutting him without getting anything is INSANE. Which we will never get off that subject. On top of that, they took a career backup 3rd round draft choice who happens to have a little buzz about him, and threw him into the same crappy position Carr was in; [B]No OL, no RB, one WR, and a porous defense that can't keep you off the field.

Imatexan fan, tell us how you really feel. Looking just under your name I see:

Matt Schaub=Steve Young,IMO.

Something just doesn't make sense to me. :confused:

DocBar
03-26-2007, 11:01 PM
Hulk was right about Carr's position. Didn't want to budge.

Smith's interview after the release was that Carr's agent requested the release to McNair. Smith was working on a trade at the time (supposedly a third rounder) and was told to honor the request by McNair. So he did.

Really the only question remaining was whether Kubiak was pressured to believe in Carr in order to be HC or if he really thought Carr's issues were fixable in one season. The answer is probably a bit of both.

That truely questions Kubiak's integrity as a coach. I don't have a problem if he did do that. If he was right, he's the QB guru everyone believed he was and if he failed(which he obviously did) at least he admitted it, took the hit, and moved on. Integrity. no matter how you look at it.

thunderkyss
03-26-2007, 11:29 PM
That truely questions Kubiak's integrity as a coach.

I don't think David's biggest problems can be seen by watching film, or playing against him. Watching tape, if I thought I was really good at what I do, & if what I do is fix QBs, I'd have been extremely confident that I could "fix" David.

But after watching David for 5 years, and watching how our offense went from unpredictable to mickey mouse...... & the complete 180 Kubiak(who everybody agreed was a QB guru before the season) took as the year went on....

I have no doubt in my mind that David Carr isn't made of the stuff NFL QBs are made of.

Maybe he should try boxing, or Hockey. But he is not, and never will be an NFL QB.

He might start for another team... they might call him a QB for a little while, but it will be a cruel.... cruel joke.

DocBar
03-26-2007, 11:35 PM
I don't think David's biggest problems can be seen by watching film, or playing against him. Watching tape, if I thought I was really good at what I do, & if what I do is fix QBs, I'd have been extremely confident that I could "fix" David.

But after watching David for 5 years, and watching how our offense went from unpredictable to mickey mouse...... & the complete 180 Kubiak(who everybody agreed was a QB guru before the season) took as the year went on....

I have no doubt in my mind that David Carr isn't made of the stuff NFL QBs are made of.

Maybe he should try boxing, or Hockey. But he is not, and never will be an NFL QB.

He might start for another team... they might call him a QB for a little while, but it will be a cruel.... cruel joke.
This might very well be true, but fixing Carr IS what Kubiak staked his 1st year in Houston on. I like the fact that Kubiak nutted up, said "oops" and we moved on. I have faith that, no matter how inexperienced Schaub may be, we will not be seeing 15-20 QB fumbles this year. We might actually see 20 TD's by OUR QB this year and that our offense will be exciting for something other than the macabre.

wrestler4life
03-27-2007, 01:19 PM
I have to agree that Smith was probably told to let him go. I think, though, that the mistake was getting Schaub before we got rid of Carr. That gave everyone but us all the leverage

thunderkyss
03-27-2007, 02:45 PM
I have to agree that Smith was probably told to let him go. I think, though, that the mistake was getting Schaub before we got rid of Carr. That gave everyone but us all the leverage

But who knows when we'd have been able to unload our QB?? If Schaub was going to be taken by another team yesterday, we'd have missed him, then we'd have to hope to get Quinn.

I'm going with the bird in the hand saying on this one.

DontTreadOnMe
03-27-2007, 03:34 PM
I think the 8 million dollar bonus is irrelevant because Mcnair stated that he will not let money get into the way of putting a great team together... so as far as im concerned, i could care less that mcnair wasted 8 million, thats chump change to him. As far as not trading carr, i too was alittle disappointed that we did not get anything in return for him. but, it appears that the texans did not want an 'ugly divorce' with carr, and by releasing him... we are giving him every opportunity to find a team that he wants to play for, rather than finding a team that wants to trade value for him regardless if he wants to go there or not. either way, its a done deal... i feel way more comfortable with our team now than i did 2-3 weeks ago..

rickyb
03-27-2007, 04:01 PM
The WORST part of this whole deal is that Kubiak came in here and RE-annointed David as THE GUY, made sure he got a fatass bonus that is going to kick our asses this year when Carr isn't even here, and then a mere 16 games later decides to mortgage the future for someone else and can Carr.

Let me just offer a different perspective on this one topic, Kubiak annointing Carr as The Guy. And this is just speculation, based upon and consisent with limited information about our owner, the hiring manager I might add, Bob McNair. It's as good as most other speculation. The only ones that know the absolute truth are in the employ of the Houston Texans.

Bob McNair was in love with Carr. Like anyone who hires someone, they are reluctant to admit when that someone does not work out (for almost any reason short of drug-addiction, felony, or the like). To admit this is to admit a personal failure, b/c that person made the hiring decision.

This man-love almost undoubtedly came through in the interview process. I can only imagine that it goes something like:
McNair: So, Gary, you are a local hometown hero. A St. Pius boy made good. Graduate of Texas A&M, good for the local marketing. A product of a successful NFL organization, the Broncos. As an NFL Quarterback and Quarterback Coach, do you think you can turn Carr around?

[Aside: I chose the wording of the question carefully. It was not, "what do you think about David Carr?" Implicit in the wording is a belief that Carr can be turned around, given the right coaching talent, which clearly he had not had previously, Mr. Kubiak, so you better answer this correctly if you want to work for me.]

Kubiak: David has skills, one does not make it to this level without. I played QB and coached QB. Yes, I can do the job. I can coach the man.

And there you have it. The point is, if you want a job, and you sense that the boss wants it a certain way, or holds certain beliefs dear, you tell the boss what he wants/needs to hear, and then you illustrate to him why he/she needs an attitude adjustment at a later time, in a way that allows him/her to SAVE FACE.

Now, after 5 years of the Carr Experiment, I doubt there are many of us terribly concerned with allowing Mr. McNair to "save face." He is, by all accounts, a nice man. An honorable man. The antithesis of, ahem, other, shall we say, NFL owners who have made their way through Houston. We want to like him, we need to like him.

But we need a football product which can continuously improve and keep the house packed. I, for one, by virtue of the personnel decisions made within the last year, am more than willing to give Coach Kubiak and Rick Smith the benefit of the doubt.

Just do not ask me to drink the kool-aid that Kubiak was the one what annoited Carr the savior. No way. As they should have said at Jonestown, "Sure. You first." That egg is square on Mr. McNair. He as much as admitted that sin at the press conference signing of Schaub. Ask forgiveness, and thou shalt receive. Bob, you are forgiven. Coach Kubiak, go forth and conquer.

Now, let us all let go of the past. Let us all focus on the future of this team.

The sound you may know hear is that of me, stepping down from my heart-felt soapbox.

Errant Hothy
03-27-2007, 04:08 PM
If they confuse you it just proves that they are smarter then you.

Pantherstang84
03-27-2007, 04:21 PM
If they confuse you it just proves that they are smarter then you.

Ding!

Dallas_Texan
03-27-2007, 04:22 PM
I have to agree that Smith was probably told to let him go. I think, though, that the mistake was getting Schaub before we got rid of Carr. That gave everyone but us all the leverage

So Atlanta would have had LESS leverage if we traded Carr first, and had no capable back-up if they said they wanted two first rounders instead of second rounders?? Just wondering.

El Amigo Invisible
03-27-2007, 04:23 PM
First let me go through how a trade starts in the NFL. :poker:

Okay look every GM has every other GM's direct line phone number. They also have cell phone numbers, but nobody uses those initially, because it's considered rude. You call back someone who called your office, and if his assistant tells you to call the cell you do.

Talks usually start like this: "Mike, I'm calling to add my name to the list."

"Which list?"

"Folks wanting to know what you want for Carr. We might have some interest."

"I wondered if I was gonna hear from you. What are you thinking?"

And here we have the first major point in the discussion. He who admits first, loses. The calling GM will ALWAYS say something like, "hadn't really thought much more than that we're interested. What kind of offers are you taking seriously?"

"Hadn't really gotten any we're taking seriously or he'd be gone Jim. You know me!"

They'll BS like this until one guy says something. Usually it's the caller who has to fess up. And, they ALWAYS say "I heard you got offered a third and an OL for him. I might could work something like that," whether he heard that or not.

Anyway, that's the way a trade typically goes down, or at least starts, as ridiculous as it sounds. Just like hustin' for you fella's that know what I mean. :lightbulb:

So, I have heard from an irrefutable source that those conversations took place with the following teams:

Detroit
Miami (not sure why)
Oakland
Kansas City (also not sure why)
Seattle (makes me wonder about Hasselbeck's shoulder).

I don't know what they all talked about (other than Detroit), or who else may have called, but that's at least a partial list.

So to get to my point............ look there had to be SOMEONE who was willing to restructure David's contract, sign him to a 5 year deal and rework the final year of our contract, and give us SOMETHING for him, even if it was a spare part OL or a 5th round draft pick.

I don't care what Richard Justice says, we got nothing when we could have had something.

The WORST part of this whole deal is that Kubiak came in here and RE-annointed David as THE GUY, made sure he got a fatass bonus that is going to kick our asses this year when Carr isn't even here, and then a mere 16 games later decides to mortgage the future for someone else and can Carr.

I seriously don't get it. One season where the guy completes 68+% of his passes, has nearly his highest QB rating ever, and does it all with NO RB and NO OL, and that's a reason 365 days after giving him 8 million bucks to fire him? :confused:

You know all for the Texans but either Kubiak/Smith are IDIOTS for cutting the guy, or they were IDIOTS for giving him all that money last year. One way or the other they have made MONUMENTAL F-ups in a very short period of time with this organization. Its going to take alot for me to get the respect that I had for Kubes when he was hired.
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[B]Passing on Young/Leinart/Cutler and signing David to an ENORMOUS tender, and then outright cutting him without getting anything is INSANE Which we will never get off that subject. On top of that, they took a career backup 3rd round draft choice who happens to have a little buzz about him, and threw him into the same crappy position Carr was in; [B]No OL, no RB, one WR, and a porous defense that can't keep you off the field.

It does seem to be very confusing though. Perhaps Big Daddy Bob was just doing Carr yet another favor. Its just like you want to......what now?!:wild:

I think you have some valid points. I do not know who was incharge or the exact date Kubiak had the ultimate authority but someone should be held resposible for what happened last year in the draft and with Davi's contract.

Battle Red Flash
03-29-2007, 10:27 AM
So to get to my point............ look there had to be SOMEONE who was willing to restructure David's contract, sign him to a 5 year deal and rework the final year of our contract, and give us SOMETHING for him, even if it was a spare part OL or a 5th round draft pick.

I don't care what Richard Justice says, we got nothing when we could have had something.

Passing on Young/Leinart/Cutler and signing David to an ENORMOUS tender, and then outright cutting him without getting anything is INSANE. Which we will never get off that subject. On top of that, they took a career backup 3rd round draft choice who happens to have a little buzz about him, and threw him into the same crappy position Carr was in; No OL, no RB, one WR, and a porous defense that can't keep you off the field.
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I'm 100% with you. Keep Carr as long as possible, and someone would crack and give us SOMETHING. I'll always believe that.