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View Full Version : How are the Texans any better on paper than they were last year?


hollywood_texan
03-23-2007, 06:56 PM
From the way things look on paper, this team is no better than it was this time last year. Demeco was a great pick, but Kubiak has made so many poor decisions that I don't see how this team is really better than it was last year.

The team has basically the same holes as last year and now we have 2 fewer 2nd round draft picks because they finally decided to address the QB postion. They could have done that last year with the 1st pick and then saved all those draft picks and $8 million.

The best they have done to improve this team thus far is sign a 30 year-old back to about $5 million or so a year for 4 years, and then sign a young promising but untested QB for about $8 million over 6 years. That is not an improvement on paper so far in my estimation.

Kubiak is a treading water at best in improving this squad from when he got it last year, and now he has 2 fewer 2nd round picks and dropped 2 spots in the first this year.

That is why the Schuab deal is so expensive and has to pay off for Kubiak.

I wanna hear thoughts on how this team is really better from this time last year right after the draft.

Vinny
03-23-2007, 06:59 PM
I'm starting to think you are the kind of fan that will never be happy. You hated Carr and now that he is gone you hate the new team. This offense is totally different than last year with Schaub, Ahman Green and securing the line with veteran back ups to play behind our young Tackles. We have good Guards and a top young TE. The draft should address our secondary and we have time to find another FA.

swisher
03-23-2007, 07:05 PM
The team has basically the same holes as last year and now we have 2 fewer 2nd round draft picks because they finally decided to address the QB postion. They could have done that last year with the 1st pick and then saved all those draft picks and $8 million.


Hmmm...interesting. Why has no one else brought this point up before?

DRAMA
03-23-2007, 07:07 PM
You forgot to mention that we could've draft Vin....

Oh, my bad, yeah ya did!


:wheel: :wheel: :wheel: :wheel:

Where's the avatar with the guy reading a BBS holding a pistol to his head?

hollywood_texan
03-23-2007, 07:09 PM
I'm starting to think you are the kind of fan that will never be happy. You hated Carr and now that he is gone you hate the new team. This offense is totally different than last year with Schaub, Ahman Green and securing the line with veteran back ups to play behind our young Tackles. We have good Guards and a top young TE. The draft should address our secondary and we have time to find another FA.
I want to be happy about things, but I am just very skeptical of this entire situation.

The way I see it, Schuab and Mario Williams need to have amazing years in 2007 for the Texans to have a succesful season.

As much as I didn't like Carr, they were were so far into thing, I would have been fine with playing Carr next year and continue to build the lines and defensive secondary.

This Schuab deal is make or break. I don't see how the Texans are going to recover in the short-term if his play is mediocre.

You have to agree with me that the Texans are addressing issues they basically said weren't issues last year and they pretty much still have the same issues from last year to contend with.

Hopefully, Schuab is that kind of player that makes the difference. If he is, Kubiak will be smelling like a rose. The Schuab deal is either going to be a steal or the Texans are going to look like idiots. It is a high risk move.

It was a gutsy move and I don't see how this team is better on paper. Paper doesn't mean anything, that's why they play the games.

done88
03-23-2007, 07:15 PM
I can tell you this. When I showed up to every home game last year I felt like the offense was going to fail and nothing was done. I'm not big on change just for change. But doing something is better then nothing. Green may be okd but he rushed for over a thousand yards last year and was a very productive back. Schab has potential and we added depth at a few positions. The teams that get siginificantly better from one year to another are not the usually the teams that make the big deals. They are usually the one who address needs with available players. Football is a Team sport. The Texans have added leadership and potential. They have the best chance to improve in my book. I'm excited about this year.

hollywood_texan
03-23-2007, 07:20 PM
I can tell you this. When I showed up to every home game last year I felt like the offense was going to fail and nothing was done. I'm not big on change just for change. But doing something is better then nothing. Green may be okd but he rushed for over a thousand yards last year and was a very productive back. Schab has potential and we added depth at a few positions. The teams that get siginificantly better from one year to another are not the usually the teams that make the big deals. They are usually the one who address needs with available players. Football is a Team sport. The Texans have added leadership and potential. They have the best chance to improve in my book. I'm excited about this year.

Very nice. I can't argue with anything you said.

You are basically saying, they have made some key moves and let's see what happens.

Texans_Chick
03-23-2007, 07:21 PM
The way I see it, Schuab and Mario Williams need to have amazing years in 2007 for the Texans to have a succesful season.

Let me fix this for you:

"The way I see it, Schaub and Mario Williams need to have amazing years in 2007 for the Texans so that I will stop whining, crying and beyotching all the time about the stuff we gave up for them."

It is a team game. The team plays better, the team has a successful season.

Every choice has risk and reward. Every choice has pros and cons, including your preferred version of 2007 (though I have to say if the Texans actually did what you proposed you would still be whining about DC). Sometimes they pay off, sometimes they don't. You have to start somewhere.

Vinny
03-23-2007, 07:23 PM
I want to be happy about things, but I am just very skeptical of this entire situation.

The way I see it, Schuab and Mario Williams need to have amazing years in 2007 for the Texans to have a succesful season.

As much as I didn't like Carr, they were were so far into thing, I would have been fine with playing Carr next year and continue to build the lines and defensive secondary.

This Schuab deal is make or break. I don't see how the Texans are going to recover in the short-term if his play is mediocre.

You have to agree with me that the Texans are addressing issues they basically said weren't issues last year and they pretty much still have the same issues from last year to contend with.

Hopefully, Schuab is that kind of player that makes the difference. If he is, Kubiak will be smelling like a rose. The Schuab deal is either going to be a steal or the Texans are going to look like idiots. It is a high risk move.

It was a gutsy move and I don't see how this team is better on paper. Paper doesn't mean anything, that's why they play the games. Ok...you make some good points and yeah, this Schaub deal is a make or break deal for this new regime. It's bold and it is going to cost us one position player, but if the QB pans out, the cost of one second round pick next year is not that steep a price to pay. I thought Carr was awful though. His last 40 quarters produced 2 TD's and one was in garbage time...it was time to move him out. Kubiak didn't want to get "Capered" by David Carr, the coach killer.

kcwilson
03-23-2007, 07:24 PM
Poster's remorse.

K.D.
03-23-2007, 07:26 PM
I'm not worried if they are better on paper but I bet my last $2 we are better on the feild. Having a young QB that's ready to prove himself, 2 HB's that know they can still produce, a legit blocking FB, revamped 0-line that finally has some good depth, legit pass-catchers(even though i think we still should address the WR position), a defense that is gonna be a force to reckon with(i really believe this too), and most importantly this team is still YOUNG. This team finally is going to be what we were expecting years ago cuz we have the right people in place to make this happen(Smith,Kubes,Richard Smith,Bush,etc). So if everyone wants to drag-ass about this team and last years team, you are really depriving yourself of what's about to happen in the near future. This team will be able to run 7-dropback pass plays, intermidiate passes, deep across the middle passes, PA passes that's actually gonna fool somebody, and finally a legit running game that's gonna command respect. All in all, it's really time to look forward and stop boo-hooing bout what was done and how it was done, but everyone can agree that something had to be done, so it's done and people are still finding faults and to them i would say, just remember how much this TEAM was F###ED UP!!! Peace!

aj.
03-23-2007, 07:27 PM
This Schuab deal is make or break..

What starting QB decision isn't?

But I guess I'm a little different about these things.

Pastorini
Stabler
Reaves
Neilsen
Luck
Manning
Moon
Carlson
Richardson
Chandler
Tolliver
Furrer
McNair

Those are all QBs I remember watching here over the years before the Texans came along. QBs come and go. If they do well they stay. If they don't, they go. I've outlasted about 14 who started at one time or another here and I hopefully I will outlast Schaub.

Schaub might make or break Kubiak and Smith, but not me.

hollywood_texan
03-23-2007, 07:29 PM
Let me fix this for you:

"The way I see it, Schaub and Mario Williams need to have amazing years in 2007 for the Texans so that I will stop whining, crying and beyotching all the time about the stuff we gave up for them."

It is a team game. The team plays better, the team has a successful season.

Every choice has risk and reward. Every choice has pros and cons, including your preferred version of 2007 (though I have to say if the Texans actually did what you proposed you would still be whining about DC). Sometimes they pay off, sometimes they don't. You have to start somewhere.

Wow!

What did I deserve to get this kind of treatment?

I am merely stating my opinion just like everybody else on this board.

You are a little out of line here and making this personal. If you are going to get so upset, my recommendation is for you not to read my posts and please don't respond to anything I say. I know we have tangled a few times, but I think I have tried to be cool with you even when I find you just as annoying. I just gave you postive rep this week when I finally agreed with you on something.

As for Carr, I have never said in the past year they should cut Carr and trade expensively for an untested backup QB.

If you read my posts for the last few weeks, I was perfectly fine with Carr being a Texan next year as a QB so they could fill other holes first and see what Sage can do if Carr just kept going the same course. They were so far into Carr wasn't even funny.

hollywood_texan
03-23-2007, 07:31 PM
Ok...you make some good points and yeah, this Schaub deal is a make or break deal for this new regime. It's bold and it is going to cost us one position player, but if the QB pans out, the cost of one second round pick next year is not that steep a price to pay. I thought Carr was awful though. His last 40 quarters produced 2 TD's and one was in garbage time...it was time to move him out. Kubiak didn't want to get "Capered" by David Carr, the coach killer.
Totally hear ya Vinny, I am just very skeptical right now.

That's all....

hollywood_texan
03-23-2007, 07:33 PM
What starting QB decision isn't?

But I guess I'm a little different about these things.

Pastorini
Stabler
Reaves
Neilsen
Luck
Manning
Moon
Carlson
Richardson
Chandler
Tolliver
Furrer
McNair

Those are all QBs I remember watching here over the years before the Texans came along. QBs come and go. If they do well they stay. If they don't, they go. I've outlasted about 14 who started at one time or another here and I hopefully I will outlast Schaub.

Schaub might make or break Kubiak and Smith, but not me.
I just thought the Texans could have sit tight on the QB position this year and see what shaked out after 2007. There just didn't seem to be a need to go this deep in.

But, if it pans out, Kubiak/Smith are going to be heros, along with Schuab.

Just a gutsy move to make your team better.

Texans_Chick
03-23-2007, 07:43 PM
Wow!

What did I deserve to get this kind of treatment?

I am merely stating my opinion just like everybody else on this board.

You are a little out of line here and making this personal. If you are going to get so upset, my recommendation is for you not to read my posts and please don't respond to anything I say. I know we have tangled a few times, but I think I have tried to be cool with you even when I find you just as annoying. I just gave you postive rep this week when I finally agreed with you on something.

As for Carr, I have never said in the past year they should cut Carr and trade expensively for an untested backup QB.

If you read my posts for the last few weeks, I was perfectly fine with Carr being a Texan next year as a QB so they could fill other holes first and see what Sage can do if Carr just kept going the same course. They were so far into Carr wasn't even funny.

Did I say anything that wasn't accurate?? I'm stating my opinion too.

I guess the way you wrote that last post got on my last nerve.

Why do Schaub and Williams have to have an AMAZING year to have a successful season? They are two players. Why couldn't they have okay years on a team that ends up winning?

And even if you were "perfectly fine with Carr being a Texan next year," you can't tell me you wouldn't have complained about his play.

Really, I have to say I agree with Vinny that you might just be one of those people who are never satisfied with anything. Please let me know if I'm wrong, but most of the posts I've ever seen you write are of the beyotching about things category.

Some people are just grumbly by nature.

I think there are ways to bring up concerns about the team without sounding like a perpetual strain of complaint rock.

Second Honeymoon
03-23-2007, 07:43 PM
What starting QB decision isn't?

But I guess I'm a little different about these things.

Pastorini
Stabler
Reaves
Neilsen
Luck
Manning
Moon
Carlson
Richardson
Chandler
Tolliver
Furrer
McNair

Those are all QBs I remember watching here over the years before the Texans came along. QBs come and go. If they do well they stay. If they don't, they go. I've outlasted about 14 who started at one time or another here and I hopefully I will outlast Schaub.

Schaub might make or break Kubiak and Smith, but not me.

nothing to misinterpret there. i agree completely. props for pulling Will Furrer's name out of your arse...

clandestin
03-23-2007, 07:53 PM
I just thought the Texans could have sit tight on the QB position this year and see what shaked out after 2007. There just didn't seem to be a need to go this deep in.

But, if it pans out, Kubiak/Smith are going to be heros, along with Schuab.

Just a gutsy move to make your team better.

IF Schaub is the guy the texans think he is I predict that we will all be shocked by just how bad the QB play has been the last few years.

I hear where you are coming from--trust me the $k's I've spent as a season ticket holder has ingrained a sense of skepticism in me--but there is no doubt in my mind that a change had to be made at that spot....and that's the most important position on the field.

hollywood_texan
03-23-2007, 07:54 PM
Did I say anything that wasn't accurate?? I'm stating my opinion too.

I guess the way you wrote that last post got on my last nerve.

Why do Schaub and Williams have to have an AMAZING year to have a successful season? They are two players. Why couldn't they have okay years on a team that ends up winning?

And even if you were "perfectly fine with Carr being a Texan next year," you can't tell me you wouldn't have complained about his play.

Really, I have to say I agree with Vinny that you might just be one of those people who are never satisfied with anything. Please let me know if I'm wrong, but most of the posts I've ever seen you write are of the beyotching about things category.

Some people are just grumbly by nature.

I think there are ways to bring up concerns about the team without sounding like a perpetual strain of complaint rock.

I just sent you PM, let me know. Just wanna make sure everything is cool.

I think the Texans have so much invested in Schuab and Williams, that they have to be. If you really don't see that, I don't know what to say?

As for Carr next year, I was going to start laying off of it because I thought sitting tight was the best route and you have to take the good with the bad.

As for me always complaing, I am going on six years of season tickets for a team that makes continual mistakes and blunders.

If the Texans make a serious run for the playoffs next year, I will probably be one of the biggest optimists on this board. But the Texans haven't showed squat in 5 years!

I am probably a bigger realist than I am an optimist.

I just don't see how this team is really better than last year. Not to say great things won't happen next year.

We'll see... I just don't see it right now.

whiskeyrbl
03-23-2007, 07:59 PM
I just thought the Texans could have sit tight on the QB position this year and see what shaked out after 2007. There just didn't seem to be a need to go this deep in.

But, if it pans out, Kubiak/Smith are going to be heros, along with Schuab.

Just a gutsy move to make your team better.

I don't think they could have sat on it for the mere fact the fans would have been out for a lynching at the first mistake Carr made. And personally I don't think Rosenfels is the answer. This is the start of a new beginning, we rid ourselves of the face of the franchise which is associated with losing. Maybe not his fault entirely, but nevertheless the scapegoat of it all. This is something that had to be done. I am not happy that we just released him but thats way things go. Give the team 5 weeks and lets have this conversation.

DocBar
03-23-2007, 08:00 PM
I know this doctor that passes out prozac....

Schaub_to AJ_YES!
03-23-2007, 08:05 PM
How? Because the dead weight Carr is no longer on the team. That's good for 2-4 wins in 2007.

TwinSisters
03-23-2007, 08:06 PM
Don't forget Moroski - Atlanta pick up

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/MoroMi00.htm
California Aggie
http://ucdavisaggies.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/moroski_mike00.html

( also Guido Merkins... as if that isn't the coolest name for QB ever )
--------

I think we look better on paper this year in relation to last year.

Then there is at least one legit star on the D

Myself I am a firm believer in MLB/QB then line then other components. Head before body, body before branch, branch before leaves.

I don't care that Schaub has never started full-time. Neither had Manning or Moon back in the day and they got picked up at even higher costs. If Schaub had cost a 7th rounder or came for free, that would bother me even more.
---

And yes, I agree Kubiak and crew threw a game breaking pick last year, but now it's time to dust it off and repack our lunches. It makes me happy that they can see mistakes and adjust, instead of bucking themselves to death like some poor ox in a Spanish bullfight.

Koolbrz
03-23-2007, 08:13 PM
From the way things look on paper, this team is no better than it was this time last year. Demeco was a great pick, but Kubiak has made so many poor decisions that I don't see how this team is really better than it was last year.

The team has basically the same holes as last year and now we have 2 fewer 2nd round draft picks because they finally decided to address the QB postion. They could have done that last year with the 1st pick and then saved all those draft picks and $8 million.

The best they have done to improve this team thus far is sign a 30 year-old back to about $5 million or so a year for 4 years, and then sign a young promising but untested QB for about $8 million over 6 years. That is not an improvement on paper so far in my estimation.

Kubiak is a treading water at best in improving this squad from when he got it last year, and now he has 2 fewer 2nd round picks and dropped 2 spots in the first this year.

That is why the Schuab deal is so expensive and has to pay off for Kubiak.

I wanna hear thoughts on how this team is really better from this time last year right after the draft.


The way i see it, Schaub is our 2nd rd. pick this yr. IMO, it is not a bad pick. We would be in the same situation with an untested rookie QB. Schaub at the very least has shown that he can do some damage in the NFL. (see game against Patriots) It is one game, but it does give you an idea of what he could be capable of doing on a consistent basis. He really cost us 2 spots in the first this yr and a 2nd rounder next yr. Hopefully a mid to late 2nd rd. pick. That would be great.

Dropping 2 spots in this yrs draft will not make much of a difference. We still have a top ten pick!! They just need to make the correct pick. Signing Ahman Green was smart. The guy can play. He is a great blocker in the backfield. He's a versatile back, something we did not have last yr. I still feel that they need to pick up another playmaker in this yrs. draft. Gado, Lundy need to go. M. Lynch would be an awesome pick up. We need more than AJ and Green on the offensive side of the ball.

To date, i feel that this team looks better than last yrs. team on paper. QB position has been upgraded so has the RB position. O-Line looks solid IMO. Hopefully, Spencer can come back healthy. Defense was solid the last couple of games. Hopefully they can pick up where they left off. I see some improvement. I can't wait for the seson to begin!!! Be positive man!! They know what they are doin.

DocBar
03-23-2007, 08:13 PM
One thing I can say about our current FO is that they don't seem hung up names, salaries or where a player was drafted. That seemed like a big hangup of the former regime. I'm done whining. So who do you guys like in the 3rd round?? Think Khalil might fall???
:victory:

Texans_Chick
03-23-2007, 08:18 PM
I just sent you PM, let me know. Just wanna make sure everything is cool.

I think the Texans have so much invested in Schuab and Williams, that they have to be. If you really don't see that, I don't know what to say?

As for Carr next year, I was going to start laying off of it because I thought sitting tight was the best route and you have to take the good with the bad.

As for me always complaing, I am going on six years of season tickets for a team that makes continual mistakes and blunders.

If the Texans make a serious run for the playoffs next year, I will probably be one of the biggest optimists on this board. But the Texans haven't showed squat in 5 years!

I am probably a bigger realist than I am an optimist.

I just don't see how this team is really better than last year. Not to say great things won't happen next year.

We'll see... I just don't see it right now.

Backatcha.

As for the investment in Schaub and Williams, those "investments" are sunk costs. Once you make those decisions and have decided to go that direction, the decision is done and they become two players on an entire team. Yeah, you want them to play well, but they don't have to play "amazing" for the team to have success. Heck, I will settle for competant and professional.

As for not complaining about Carr next year, that is just not a promise you could possibly honor. Not just you specifically, but just any human being. Given that his good will was mostly spent, unless he played perfect, human beings would want to complain if he wasn't throwing the middle ball, or dumping it off even when the offense demanded it, or fumbled the snap or whatever.

I think that most people are a bit of an egoist and see themselves as the realist, and everyone else as an pie-eyed optimist or a unrealistic-expectations pessimist. There isn't a Texan fan alive who isn't frustrated as heck and want to see better play--people just express that frustration in different ways, in their own versions of what they see as realistic.

There is no one right or wrong answer. And there is a lot of luck that goes with the skill. And that is why winning is difficult and the difficulty and the chase is why it is satisfying when winning happens.


As for your original topic, I think the reason the Texans are better on paper is that they are cleaning house, getting rid of bad contracts, getting a new start and new expectations. They are trying to create depth with lowish cost players that won't harm them too bad if they don't pan out. I'm not sure if a serious playoff run happens next year, but it would be less surprising than the year before's team, so I guess that is why they are better on paper. More players used to the same system.

OzzO
03-23-2007, 08:22 PM
On paper, how any better than last year? From this exact point (pre-draft)?

We now have Mario, Demeco, Spencer, Winston, Daniels and Lundy. Maybe our 7th pick Anderson will produce for the trifecta in last year's draft.

We've got some veteran depth in Barber, Black, and Clark. Resigned a quality RB in Dayne (which we didn't have at this point last year) and acquired a quality vet RB in Green.

The position / player that divided the town is now (hopefully) resolved.

Shoot, we resgined Stanley. :joker:

... and for the grand finale..... We had the quality duo of Casserly and Capers. Okay, maybe that was a little earlier than this exact point.

We live for Sunday, where will you be, and I'm a Texan. It all MAKES SENSE NOW!!! Game on Texans! CRANK IT! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRA02H_UaTI)

:coolb: :fieldgoal :spot:

Double Barrel
03-23-2007, 08:22 PM
All the Texans have to do is go 9-7 next season to justify everything. Our first winning season will energize the fanbase and give optimism to many fans.

Nobody has to have a Pro Bowl year, we just have to win more than we lose. And in 2006, we were not that far off. I can think of three games off the top of my head that we could have won, which would have given us our first winning season. And that was with a team that had some major injuries and holes (not to mention an inconsistent QB and defense).

Gotta' have faith, man. It's going to be alright.

infantrycak
03-23-2007, 08:22 PM
From the way things look on paper, this team is no better than it was this time last year.

You lost all credibility with your first sentence. Seriously, your "their is a rain cloud over my head" approach to life and perceiving/twisting everything into a worst possible scenario is tiresome.

dbspi
03-23-2007, 08:27 PM
Just not having one person on our team "Carr" made our team that much better. Now we can truly be winning organization and viable play off team in the future.

Cook Thom
03-23-2007, 08:42 PM
I do not look for a big improvement in the Texans next year. They have a long way to go to be an average team. The offensive line is basically the same and it sucked last year. We have a new qb but who knows how good he really is until he had played some games. The running back situation is improved by Green is not the same player he was a couple years ago. Losing the second round draft choice is not a plus for next year. I look for one and with luck two more wins than last year. The main improvement is that the coaching staff has one year in which to judge its talent and the players are not familiar with the new staff's system.

hollywood_texan
03-23-2007, 08:43 PM
You lost all credibility with your first sentence. Seriously, your "their is a rain cloud over my head" approach to life and perceiving/twisting everything into a worst possible scenario is tiresome.

I actually had credibility?

Seriously though, the statement really isn't at odds with each other. The paper sometimes is right and sometimes it's wrong, you don't know until the game is played. That was my point. We'll see.

This time last year when everyone was screaming about the Moulds trade an how it was so good, I got pounded about being a grouch. Where is Moulds today? It wasn't such a good move was it? But it looked great on paper!

I am not saying the Schuab deal will be a bust, I am just saying Kubiak hasn't really proved he is rainmaker either with all things considered.

I hope my concerns don't happen and you guys can call me the GROUCH next season!

Believe me when I say I hope my concerns don't become reality, but I am just seeing the Texans world the way I see it.

When they prove it on the field, that's when I will get optimistic! On paper, I don't see how they improved things.

I can't for next season, we'll see....

GO TEXANS!!!

wolf123
03-23-2007, 09:19 PM
All the Texans have to do is go 9-7 next season to justify everything. Our first winning season will energize the fanbase and give optimism to many fans.

Nobody has to have a Pro Bowl year, we just have to win more than we lose. And in 2006, we were not that far off. I can think of three games off the top of my head that we could have won, which would have given us our first winning season. And that was with a team that had some major injuries and holes (not to mention an inconsistent QB and defense).

Gotta' have faith, man. It's going to be alright.

I sincerely hope we can achieve 9-7. Next year's schedule is extremely scary. I personally believe we have improved on paper this year, and as a few have stated, Schaub is really just our 2nd rounder this year if we are able to acquire a 2008 2nd rounder by trading down.

I do agree that we Gotta' have faith, and it'll be alright.

Clash_Fan3605
03-23-2007, 09:28 PM
I really feel that if we have the right team chemistry & discipline, we can go anywhere from 7-9 to 9-7. As far as last years draft goes, there was 1 move that I severely questioned. And no, it's not the one you're thinking of (I was a staunch supporter of Mario). I questioned the move of Owen Daniel over Ko Simpson. Daniel worked out well, but man I gotta think if we drafted Simpson, we would not have had to worry about Landry or Nelson making it as far as 10. We could have used this years pick to go for another need, like Okoye, had we had Ko Simpson.

infantrycak
03-23-2007, 09:38 PM
I actually had credibility?

Your actual football observations aren't bad IMO. It is the rain cloud over my head interpretation/extrapolation I have a hard time with. There are 32 teams in the league and 32 of them would be better if hind sight was applied. As a corollary, predict everything as bad and sometimes you will be right. Yes, the Texans have made mistakes, plenty of them--doesn't mean every action will be a mistake.

I can't for next season, we'll see....

GO TEXANS!!!

Watch out--you almost sound like a fan there.

Texans_Chick
03-23-2007, 09:38 PM
I hope my concerns don't happen and you guys can call me the GROUCH next season!

Believe me when I say I hope my concerns don't become reality, but I am just seeing the Texans world the way I see it.

When they prove it on the field, that's when I will get optimistic! On paper, I don't see how they improved things.

I can't for next season, we'll see....

GO TEXANS!!!

As far as your on paper assessment, are you looking at the contracts of the players and the flexibility the team has with those contracts relative to last year?

Generally speaking, it is easy to be non-optimistic with a team that has never had much of a track record of success. It is much easier to add pieces to a team that is already good than it is to add and change a team that has stunk on ice. With a sorry team, you can be a pessimist, and I think the odds are likely that your pessmism will be rewarded.

Part of that is players wanting to go to teams that win and have tradition and a track record. It's why some coaches will only go to jobs that "have good situations"--the Phil Jackson syndrome--it is just easier. Turnarounds can happen, but you need some skill and luck.

The sad thing is that you can maximize all your opportunities and do everything you can to fix your team within a year, and you can work harder than the other guy, and still not have the stuff you done show up in wins and losses. Obviously, you don't want to dwell on that point because it is kinda depressing, but that's life.

And you never know how the alternative choices would have worked out because once you make a choice, the alternative histories don't play out.

TexansFanatic
03-23-2007, 09:48 PM
From the way things look on paper, this team is no better than it was this time last year......so many poor decisions that I don't see how this team is really better than it was last year.

We all feel like we've been burned, time and again, by this team that we all love (or at least WANT to love----it can be difficult). From the very start there were some eyebrow-raising maneuvers. And we suffered through some curious drafts (Jabbar Gaffney over Clinton Portis??? Dave Ragone??? Charles Hill???) . But we kept telling ourselves: "It's okay, these guys know what they're doing." Turns out they didn't know jack-squat!

Then we saw Dom Capers go and here came Gary Kubiak and we thought: "Okay, NOW we're on the right track." And here comes Mario Williams instead of you-know-who.....WTF!!!! Burned again. Looks like even the new guy is clueless!!!

But after a 6-10 turnaround, we start thinking: "Okay, take a deep breath, we're back on track."

So then, here comes this bold move to bring in Schaub and dump our first first. Well, naturally, when you're Charlie Brown and Lucy has pulled the football away for the tenth time, OF COURSE you're going to be suspicious.

But what can you do? This team needed a bold move and my hat is off to them for making one. We'll have to see if it works out and watching it all unfold is what makes it so fun....ENJOY!

hollywood_texan
03-23-2007, 09:54 PM
As far as your on paper assessment, are you looking at the contracts of the players and the flexibility the team has with those contracts relative to last year?

Generally speaking, it is easy to be non-optimistic with a team that has never had much of a track record of success. It is much easier to add pieces to a team that is already good than it is to add and change a team that has stunk on ice. With a sorry team, you can be a pessimist, and I think the odds are likely that your pessmism will be rewarded.

Part of that is players wanting to go to teams that win and have tradition and a track record. It's why some coaches will only go to jobs that "have good situations"--the Phil Jackson syndrome--it is just easier. Turnarounds can happen, but you need some skill and luck.

The sad thing is that you can maximize all your opportunities and do everything you can to fix your team within a year, and you can work harder than the other guy, and still not have the stuff you done show up in wins and losses. Obviously, you don't want to dwell on that point because it is kinda depressing, but that's life.

And you never know how the alternative choices would have worked out because once you make a choice, the alternative histories don't play out.

I agree with you on being a pessimist most of the time on a bad team will make you right most of the time. You will be right, but it doesn't mean a whole lot.

Just like most QBs drafted in the top 10 of the first round don't pan out to expectations. So someone would be right most of the time if they went against every QB pick in the first 10 picks. But, that really doesn't prove anything because anyone can do that. Finding the right one for the right team is the trick and the hard part.

It seems to me the Texans are patient at the wrong times.

Some people said earlier that they think the Texans will go 7-9 to 9-7 next year with this Schuab deal.

Actually, I think with the Schuab move, Kubiak/Smith are gunning for 10-6 minimum and being in the playoff hunt to the last game. I just don't see why they would put so much on the line to just imrove a few games from last year. They clearly are seeing someting here that I am not seeing when you look at from that perspective.

Actually, you call me an OPTIMIST from that perspective!

GO TEXANS!!!

BattleRedGuy
03-23-2007, 10:02 PM
The team has basically the same holes as last year and now we have 2 fewer 2nd round draft picks because they finally decided to address the QB postion. They could have done that last year with the 1st pick and then saved all those draft picks and $8 million.

I agree that we should have taken Leinart!

Porky
03-23-2007, 11:05 PM
You lost all credibility with your first sentence. Seriously, your "their is a rain cloud over my head" approach to life and perceiving/twisting everything into a worst possible scenario is tiresome.

I agree. How someone can say we aren't better on paper than this time last year has their head buried in the sand or just carries an umbrella on a sunny day. We are DRAMATICALLY better at MLB than this time last year. We are DRAMATICALLY better at QB, TE, and RB than at the same time last yr. We are at the very least moderately better at DE, DT, RG and RT than the same time last year. And, we still have the draft to improve as well. Keep burying your head in the sand, but how you can look at the moves made since last March 23rd, and think we haven't improved is just negative for negative sake.

Wolf
03-23-2007, 11:14 PM
it depends porkster.... remember the Redskins made a whole bunch of moves to get FA's .on paper they looked great... remember the rockets getting barkley and had 3 hall of famers on the team... on paper they looked good.....did it net a World Title in their respective sport... hey the Yankees are still waiting

you never know ..assumptions run wild

chemistry is a tough thing to judge.


we do look better on paper...on the field..well time will tell

Jwwillis
03-24-2007, 12:02 AM
We all feel like we've been burned, time and again, by this team that we all love (or at least WANT to love----it can be difficult). From the very start there were some eyebrow-raising maneuvers. And we suffered through some curious drafts (Jabbar Gaffney over Clinton Portis??? Dave Ragone??? Charles Hill???) . But we kept telling ourselves: "It's okay, these guys know what they're doing." Turns out they didn't know jack-squat!

Then we saw Dom Capers go and here came Gary Kubiak and we thought: "Okay, NOW we're on the right track." And here comes Mario Williams instead of you-know-who.....WTF!!!! Burned again. Looks like even the new guy is clueless!!!

But after a 6-10 turnaround, we start thinking: "Okay, take a deep breath, we're back on track."

So then, here comes this bold move to bring in Schaub and dump our first first. Well, naturally, when you're Charlie Brown and Lucy has pulled the football away for the tenth time, OF COURSE you're going to be suspicious.

But what can you do? This team needed a bold move and my hat is off to them for making one. We'll have to see if it works out and watching it all unfold is what makes it so fun....ENJOY!

Give it chance, they have promised not to pull "The Tony Romo" on us, (as the old Lucy move is now called). I wanna give the Kubs more than 1yr and a chance to build, and coach, HIS team not Casserly's.

thunderkyss
03-24-2007, 12:13 AM
From the way things look on paper, this team is no better than it was this time last year. Demeco was a great pick, but Kubiak has made so many poor decisions that I don't see how this team is really better than it was last year.

The team has basically the same holes as last year and now we have 2 fewer 2nd round draft picks because they finally decided to address the QB postion. They could have done that last year with the 1st pick and then saved all those draft picks and $8 million.

The best they have done to improve this team thus far is sign a 30 year-old back to about $5 million or so a year for 4 years, and then sign a young promising but untested QB for about $8 million over 6 years. That is not an improvement on paper so far in my estimation.

Kubiak is a treading water at best in improving this squad from when he got it last year, and now he has 2 fewer 2nd round picks and dropped 2 spots in the first this year.

That is why the Schuab deal is so expensive and has to pay off for Kubiak.

I wanna hear thoughts on how this team is really better from this time last year right after the draft.

I agree, that we are not any better on paper, than we were last year. But, I do believe without David, this team can focus on winning football games, and not developing our 5 year rookie.

Now most people in this league believe Matt Schaub is ready to start. For whatever reason they believe that, or for whatever reason you don't, most people feel he is ready to start. & this isn't a "Matt Lienart is ready to start because he played in a pro system in college" kind of start. This is a "He's been in the NFL for three years learning the WCO, learning the ZBS, learning the "speed of the game" brought along slowly in the NFL" ready to start.


Which QB could we have gotten with a second round pick that would be ready to start in September in the NFL??

Don't act like we "lost" the pick. We used it on a QB. A QB you won't be able to get in this draft, or last years draft for that matter.

Honoring Earl 34
03-24-2007, 12:37 AM
All that and more and he's 25 years old .

Double Barrel
03-24-2007, 12:42 AM
I agree. How someone can say we aren't better on paper than this time last year has their head buried in the sand or just carries an umbrella on a sunny day. We are DRAMATICALLY better at MLB than this time last year. We are DRAMATICALLY better at QB, TE, and RB than at the same time last yr. We are at the very least moderately better at DE, DT, RG and RT than the same time last year. And, we still have the draft to improve as well. Keep burying your head in the sand, but how you can look at the moves made since last March 23rd, and think we haven't improved is just negative for negative sake.

POTD :thumbup

Without a doubt, we have better talent on this team than we did at this point last year.

hadaad
03-24-2007, 12:53 AM
From the way things look on paper, this team is no better than it was this time last year. Demeco was a great pick, but Kubiak has made so many poor decisions that I don't see how this team is really better than it was last year.

The team has basically the same holes as last year and now we have 2 fewer 2nd round draft picks because they finally decided to address the QB postion. They could have done that last year with the 1st pick and then saved all those draft picks and $8 million.

The best they have done to improve this team thus far is sign a 30 year-old back to about $5 million or so a year for 4 years, and then sign a young promising but untested QB for about $8 million over 6 years. That is not an improvement on paper so far in my estimation.

Kubiak is a treading water at best in improving this squad from when he got it last year, and now he has 2 fewer 2nd round picks and dropped 2 spots in the first this year.

That is why the Schuab deal is so expensive and has to pay off for Kubiak.

I wanna hear thoughts on how this team is really better from this time last year right after the draft.

Same on paper as this time last year?
DeMeco Ryans is the best player we have.
Mario Williams is better than Antwaan Peek and Jason Babin combined.
Our outside linebackers are proven veterans in 4-3 defenses.
We have a quarterback that is looking up in his career (instead of looking up at the lineman who will help him off the turf -- I hope)
We have a behemoth of a left tackle (if healthy)
We have a right tackle who is (in my opinion) as good as the guy last year, but who is getting better instead of just getting older.
We have a tight end who played as well in the first half of the year as any of the tight ends drafted ahead of him.
Our halfback situation is no longer a situation -- our presumed starter, at least, looks ready to start off the season, so that's a bonus.

On the negative side: We have no second round pick this year, we have only 1 third round pick this year, we still have a hole at #2 wide receiver, there are more questions about centre than there were last year (Flanagan was supposed to be our saviour), we still have the hole at FS that Brown never filled, Spencer's injury may make it necessary to pick up another LT, and Ephraim Salaam is on our team.

With all of those things compared, I would say we are far ahead of where we were last year, even if you just look at the prospective linebackers and running backs.

On another topic, I think I've found what people are going to decide to harp on instead of David Carr. It looks like it's going to be Vince Young, the one that got away. It's not like we gave up the pick. We still got a stud, though he didn't have the opportunity to show it in the second half of his rookie season. It sure was exciting listening to that Giants game, though.

I don't care at all what the front office could have done last year. It did what it did, we are where we are, and I'm excited about where we could be this time, next year. All this wonking about what could have been is about as useful as... well, I guess as useful as cheering for Jacksonville against the Texans.

hadaad
03-24-2007, 01:06 AM
(snipit)

If the Texans make a serious run for the playoffs next year, I will probably be one of the biggest optimists on this board. But the Texans haven't showed squat in 5 years!
(snipitgood)


I disagree with you. 2002: 4-12 2003: 5-11 2004: 7-9. That shows me growth and improvement. Sure, they turned over and showed their bellies 2005 and 2006 limped along not knowing who was going to show up (beyond DeMeco) from week to week but to say that they haven't showed squat, to me, is a sign of frustration leading to overemotional and irrational postings. Of course, this is the internet, and not doing that would probably put you well out of the norm.

Just my 2 cents.

So Cal Texan
03-24-2007, 01:54 AM
From the way things look on paper, this team is no better than it was this time last year. Demeco was a great pick, but Kubiak has made so many poor decisions that I don't see how this team is really better than it was last year.

The team has basically the same holes as last year and now we have 2 fewer 2nd round draft picks because they finally decided to address the QB postion. They could have done that last year with the 1st pick and then saved all those draft picks and $8 million.

The best they have done to improve this team thus far is sign a 30 year-old back to about $5 million or so a year for 4 years, and then sign a young promising but untested QB for about $8 million over 6 years. That is not an improvement on paper so far in my estimation.

Kubiak is a treading water at best in improving this squad from when he got it last year, and now he has 2 fewer 2nd round picks and dropped 2 spots in the first this year.

That is why the Schuab deal is so expensive and has to pay off for Kubiak.

I wanna hear thoughts on how this team is really better from this time last year right after the draft.

First of all, comparing them now to after the draft is not equateable. Who did we have 33 days prior to the draft last year? Why not wait until after the draft, then take a look? Who are we going to get in the draft? And how do they fit "on paper".

The free agent period and the draft period combined shows the direction and philosoph of the FO.

And, quite frankly, "on paper" doesn't mean crap. On the field is where it counts. Davis, on paper, was one of the reasons we didn't need Bush. And, Carr, on paper, was one of the reasons we didn't need Young.

It took Kubiak and the FO time to see them on the field to determine that they needed to make changes.

I believe today, even 33 days before the draft, that the roster is stronger than it was when Kubiak took over.

2005 = 2 - 14 before Kubiak

2006 = 6 - 10 since Kubiak

I have a hard time seeing this as treading water. And I believe that 2007 will bring more wins than last year. I would call this progress.

So Cal Texan
03-24-2007, 01:57 AM
I want to be happy about things, but I am just very skeptical of this entire situation.

The way I see it, Schuab and Mario Williams need to have amazing years in 2007 for the Texans to have a succesful season.

As much as I didn't like Carr, they were were so far into thing, I would have been fine with playing Carr next year and continue to build the lines and defensive secondary.

This Schuab deal is make or break. I don't see how the Texans are going to recover in the short-term if his play is mediocre.

You have to agree with me that the Texans are addressing issues they basically said weren't issues last year and they pretty much still have the same issues from last year to contend with.

Hopefully, Schuab is that kind of player that makes the difference. If he is, Kubiak will be smelling like a rose. The Schuab deal is either going to be a steal or the Texans are going to look like idiots. It is a high risk move.

It was a gutsy move and I don't see how this team is better on paper. Paper doesn't mean anything, that's why they play the games.

Why would you want to spend another year playing Carr if he isn't the answer. Then, what do you do the following year? You are in the same boat then as now... so why continue with a losing proposition? Better to try anything if what you are going with now won't work.

aj.
03-24-2007, 05:59 AM
GO TEXANS!!!

You forgot this: :sarcasm:

Gamehorn25
03-24-2007, 08:40 AM
Sometimes I think that maybe the Texans FO should have had an 'accident' in the Server room for a few days, so people would be forced to think about what they write on the message board. People right now are kind of in shock, and the Carr haters can't hate Carr. They need someone to be really angry at. They will always have the cowboys and the Titans, but we need to have someone else to be able to yell at. Give the Haters until draft day to figure out that Carr is gone and Schaub is here. If Schaub doesn't play well in the first few games, the Carr haters will become Schaub haters. They will revert back to their old ways aka Sage for President. Watch out the winds of Change are blowing, and most people are affraid of change no matter what they say. The world of the Texans is changing, and I hope it is for the better.

football freak
03-24-2007, 09:20 AM
at least now we won't have to hear how bad the offensive line is. I never believed all that pressure and all those sacks belonged just to the offensive line. Schaub had nothing bad to say about those guys and he is looking forward to playing here. All the analyst keep saying how bad our line is but are they really or was Carr just that bad? Could any of us keep a defensive line out of our backfield that long? Carr looked right at who he was throwing to and didn't see the whole field. He didn't see the pass rush coming either. I can't see Peyton or Brady being that bad behind our line.

keyfro
03-24-2007, 09:41 AM
how is the team better?

we now have depth at OT...i think that's the first time we can say that

we have really good competition at RB...once again a first

we have a solid young TE...solid guards...and a four man competition at center

we have a franchise figure in andre "the beast" johnson

and most importantly we don't have the human pinata at QB...we have a new guy who while being unproven still has a ton of potential

that's the offense on defense:

mario's injuries should be all healed up by training camp and he's not a rookie anymore

we are probably in the same position with DT's and DE's as we were last year

linebackers is a huge difference from last year to now...we have quality veterans now who have played in the 4-3 before...we have friggin demeco ryans whose gonna be a franchise guy by this time next year...i don't see how we are not better here

corners we've lost pbuc and sanders from last year and we haven't added another guy via FA...i say with less guys we're not better...while those guys may not have been quality corners i firmly believe the more the better for competition

safty...we're going to retain brown and earl...we have the same back ups pretty much...no difference

special teams are the same

overall i'd say the offense is about 3 times better than last year now we need a defensive draft to finish the team plus add a punter

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
03-24-2007, 11:29 AM
I don't know how anyone can honestly say they don't believe this team is any better now then it was this time last season.

QB: Carr vs Schaub
RB: ??? vs Green
FB: Cook vs Leach
TE: Putzier vs Owens
WR: Johnson/Moulds vs Johnson/Walter
T: Salaam/Weigert vs Spencer/Winston
G: Pitts/McKinney vs Pitts/Weary
C: same
DE: Weaver/Babin/Peek vs Williams/Weaver/Babin
DT: Johnson/Payne vs Maddox/Johnson
Will: same
Mike: Cowart vs Ryans
Sam: same
CB: Dunta/Sanders vs Dunta/Faggins
FS: same
SS: same

jdog
03-24-2007, 01:08 PM
As far as I can tell, we're continuing the good things and changing the bad things. Sounds like a good plan to me.

hollywood_texan
03-24-2007, 06:20 PM
Maybe this will explain where I am coming from.

First, of the big 3 free agent acquisitions last year, two were recently cut and one had a so, so year. I am referring to Carr, Moulds, and Weaver.

Second, before the beginning of the season, I was under the understanding we had two positions locked down solid, being QB and WR. Both of those positions have been downgraded because Schuab is unproven and there isn't solid #2 WR to take some coverage off of AJ.

Now, the Texans definitely improved in the linebacker position and it looks like the offensive line is improving gradually. However, the defensive secondary is still lacking serious talent to help Dunta a bit. The RB position still has issues because Green is really a stop gap measure for the next year or so.

So, the Texans improved in some areas, went backwards in others, treading water in other, or just still sinking so far.

Ole Miss Texan
03-24-2007, 09:06 PM
I don't know how anyone can honestly say they don't believe this team is any better now then it was this time last season.

QB: Carr vs Schaub
RB: ??? vs Green
FB: Cook vs Leach
TE: Putzier vs Owens
WR: Johnson/Moulds vs Johnson/Walter
T: Salaam/Weigert vs Spencer/Winston
G: Pitts/McKinney vs Pitts/Weary
C: same
DE: Weaver/Babin/Peek vs Williams/Weaver/Babin
DT: Johnson/Payne vs Maddox/Johnson
Will: same
Mike: Cowart vs Ryans
Sam: same
CB: Dunta/Sanders vs Dunta/Faggins
FS: same
SS: same

i like the way you and keyfo are thinking....

QB-Big improvement here even w/o considering onfield traits (leadership alone wins)
RB-Improvement- Green isn't long term solution but perfect for where we are at now, good blocker too to help schaub, dayne is back,along with the youngguys
FB- Leach resigned..awesome ..status quo
WR- we really need a #2 WR. hope to find one 3rd-5th rd (moulds was better than what we have now...wish we didn't give up a 5th last year for his 1 year action)
TE-bruener and daniels-same...i like the two of them.
OL-Spencer and Winston were great picks. Winston has improved w/ play. We really need spencer to come back healthy. Salaam is good back up..good resigning. everything else is pretty much the same except for siging Black..good depth guy to have. Plus they have played together for a season learning the system..but injuries did not help too much.

DL-Mario-stud...i expect him to be more dominant when he's fully healthy. weaver had surgery so i dont know about how that plays in. zgonina sp? is good depth..TJ and Maddox.. I don't know about our DL..definitly could use some help.
LB-Very much improved. Demeco has established himself as the leader of our D and the 10 around him know it and trust him. Barber and Clark were good signings and better to have on our team than not...greenwood is still here. LB is much improved imo.
Safety- CC and Earl, same so far we need a new FS
CB- Dunta and Faggins, same..if we could get a better cb then faggins will be great for nickle package..or if we get a FS that can cover it should help faggins out.

So to recap..
*We need another starting WR.
*We need a new starter at FS or CB.
*We can always upgrade OL and DL.

*We now have our Franchise QB that will turn this franchise around.
*We have a new starting RB in Ahman Green which will really help the run game and blocking for Schaub.
*We don't NEED to address LB, QB, RB in the draft...which we would needed to before FA this season...thats 3 draft picks we could use on Secondary, DL, OL, or WR.

that's a huge improvement imo. this team is getting A LOT better.

Second Honeymoon
03-24-2007, 09:20 PM
From the way things look on paper, this team is no better than it was this time last year. Demeco was a great pick, but Kubiak has made so many poor decisions that I don't see how this team is really better than it was last year.

The team has basically the same holes as last year and now we have 2 fewer 2nd round draft picks because they finally decided to address the QB postion. They could have done that last year with the 1st pick and then saved all those draft picks and $8 million.

The best they have done to improve this team thus far is sign a 30 year-old back to about $5 million or so a year for 4 years, and then sign a young promising but untested QB for about $8 million over 6 years. That is not an improvement on paper so far in my estimation.

Kubiak is a treading water at best in improving this squad from when he got it last year, and now he has 2 fewer 2nd round picks and dropped 2 spots in the first this year.

That is why the Schuab deal is so expensive and has to pay off for Kubiak.

I wanna hear thoughts on how this team is really better from this time last year right after the draft.

one of the 2nd round picks we wouldnt be able to benefit from for almost 20 months. the one from this year that we could have used immediately was used to take Schaub essentially in the 2nd round. if your argument is that we have too many holes to fill then why are you worried about next years 2nd round pick. and the move back from 8 to 10 is a non-factor. were probably going to get the same player at 10 that we would have gotten at 8.

did we get Schaub for free? no. did we overpay? we wont know until we see what Schaub produces. Any speculation or damnation of the decision is wayyyy to early to be worth discussing.

bottom line is this. we had about a 50/50 split on whether to draft a QB in the 1st round. well we kept that pick and got a QB who is more ready to contribute immeditately. what is everyone's problem with taking Matt Schaub with the 2nd Round pick. Think about it like this....

no trade for schaub with sage as starter
1. landry
2. aaron ross
3. satele

no trade for schaub with quinn/russell drafted 1st round (maybe even have to move up to get one of those guys)

1. Quinn/Russell
2. aaron ross
3. satele (maybe even gets traded away to move up to 6 to get russell/quinn)

trade for schaub

1. Landry
2. Schaub
3. Satele

what the hell is wrong with filling your three biggest holes in the 1st day. no grooming needed. the 2nd round pick in 2008 paid for that. I just wish people would wait before they slam the pick which in a roundabout way slams Schaub. If we gave Carr 3 years before we started slamming him, and we gave him 5 years before we fired him, why dont we Schaub even a fraction of that patience as fans.

once again. a first day draft haul of landry, schaub, and satele. that would be an insane draft and would easily eclipse last years widely acclaimed Texans draft.

man i can get as negative as anyone but there is nothing to be negative about. the pick in 2008 is a non-factor at the moment. it is about winning now and improving positions immediately. if we improve as a franchise it just makes it that much easier to attract FA talent next year and makes the 2nd Round pick hurt less. We now have a solid QB situation and as long as we can improve the Center and Free Safety position, I think we will have had a GREAT offseason.

I could be wrong but dont count on it....

Second Honeymoon
03-24-2007, 09:25 PM
yeah i gotta agree with olemiss and steelblue. we need a #2 WR in a big way. maybe we can draft a WR in the 2nd day that could help but I wouldnt hold my breath. or maybe we pick up a June 1st cap casualty. I think a Joey Porter would be a more fan-friendly potential pickup than a Moss.

all in all though, everythign is fine and the sky is no longer falling

The Pencil Neck
03-24-2007, 10:27 PM
that's a huge improvement imo. this team is getting A LOT better.

Now think about it WITHOUT using last year's draft choices in the "BEFORE" section. If you're going to include Mario and Demeco and Owen in the "Before's", then we need to wait until after this years draft and THEN compare.

I'm very excited. I can't wait to see what strategy they follow and which holes they choose to plug with the draft. Are they just going to go BPA at each pick? Are they going to concentrate on one side of the ball or the other? Etc., etc.

Honoring Earl 34
03-24-2007, 10:33 PM
I say trade down pickup a 3rd .

1. Dwayne Bowe WR .

3A. Eric Weddle S

3B . Johnathon Wade CB

4. Ryan Harris OT

5 David Ball WR
__________________

mexican_texan
03-24-2007, 10:43 PM
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j253/Mexican_Texan/paper.jpg

Pantherstang84
03-24-2007, 11:17 PM
Maybe this will explain where I am coming from.

First, of the big 3 free agent acquisitions last year, two were recently cut and one had a so, so year. I am referring to Carr, Moulds, and Weaver.

Second, before the beginning of the season, I was under the understanding we had two positions locked down solid, being QB and WR. Both of those positions have been downgraded because Schuab is unproven and there isn't solid #2 WR to take some coverage off of AJ.

Now, the Texans definitely improved in the linebacker position and it looks like the offensive line is improving gradually. However, the defensive secondary is still lacking serious talent to help Dunta a bit. The RB position still has issues because Green is really a stop gap measure for the next year or so.

So, the Texans improved in some areas, went backwards in others, treading water in other, or just still sinking so far.

You need to really come out of the bomb shelter. The Soviet Union disbanded 18 years ago.

Schaub Unproven?

I implore you to go digging for some clips. If I had a tape of his game against New England, I would send it to you free of charge. The dude picked their D apart in virtually the identical offense the Texans run.

If it wasn't for the fact that the Falcon's owner has not realized his mistake with Vick like Mr. McNair did with Carr, Schaub would be one of the top rated starting QBs in the league. This is no exageration. He simply is the real deal!

#2 WR- We are still 1 month away from the 2007 Draft! This years WR class is deeeeeeeep. There are bunch of good ones to be had.

The FO and Mr. McNair realized they made a mistake. It happens.

Was it a year late? Yes.

However, when you make a mistake you have 2 courses of action...

#1-Do your best to fix it and move on.

#2-Whine and cry about it. Beat yourself up over it and do nothing.

Thankfully, the FO chose option #1. Football teams are run by human beings. Human beings make mistakes. It's what you do about them that matters.

The Texans management has decided to pull the train out of the station. THe train is rolling. Those that didn't get on board. Well. They got left behind.

DocBar
03-25-2007, 01:10 AM
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j253/Mexican_Texan/paper.jpg
You get rep for spending time on THAT!!!!

DocBar
03-25-2007, 01:14 AM
You need to really come out of the bomb shelter. The Soviet Union disbanded 18 years ago.

Schaub Unproven?

I implore you to go digging for some clips. If I had a tape of his game against New England, I would send it to you free of charge. The dude picked their D apart in virtually the identical offense the Texans run.

If it wasn't for the fact that the Falcon's owner has not realized his mistake with Vick like Mr. McNair did with Carr, Schaub would be one of the top rated starting QBs in the league. This is no exageration. He simply is the real deal!

#2 WR- We are still 1 month away from the 2007 Draft! This years WR class is deeeeeeeep. There are bunch of good ones to be had.

The FO and Mr. McNair realized they made a mistake. It happens.

Was it a year late? Yes.

However, when you make a mistake you have 2 courses of action...

#1-Do your best to fix it and move on.

#2-Whine and cry about it. Beat yourself up over it and do nothing.

Thankfully, the FO chose option #1. Football teams are run by human beings. Human beings make mistakes. It's what you do about them that matters.

The Texans management has decided to pull the train out of the station. THe train is rolling. Those that didn't get on board. Well. They got left behind. The sun shines on a dogs *** every now and then. I'm not hating on Schaub here, but you can't base an entire career on A game. That would be like seiing one of the RARE bd games for Montana and only using THAT to judge his career. Schaub may end up being great, but he has to show it on the field before I give it to him on the boards. JMHO.

The Pencil Neck
03-25-2007, 02:03 AM
Schaub Unproven?

I implore you to go digging for some clips. If I had a tape of his game against New England, I would send it to you free of charge. The dude picked their D apart in virtually the identical offense the Texans run.

If it wasn't for the fact that the Falcon's owner has not realized his mistake with Vick like Mr. McNair did with Carr, Schaub would be one of the top rated starting QBs in the league. This is no exageration. He simply is the real deal!


Well... I agree with this... kinda. I totally believe that Schaub is a much better QB who's going to take our entire offense to a new level, I have to recognize that he's not a proven commodity. At this point, he's all potential.

There are plenty of backup QB's that have done great job coming in and starting a game or two but not been able to be "The Man" for an entire season. Scott Mitchell looked great coming in relief of Marino and I thought he was going to be a great QB. He wasn't. I thought Rob Johnson looked good coming in relief of Brunell for the Jags and he was going to be a great QB. Never made it. AJ Feely looked amazing coming in when McNabb went down and took the Eagles to the Playoffs and then got his opportunity in Miami... and couldn't definitively win the job from Fiedler and Rosenfels. Frank Reich, Jason Garrett, etc., etc., there have been a lot of guys that have been able to look great for a game or three. So Schaub coming in and starting a game or two and performing great doesn't mean he's really starting QB material.

So... even though I think and believe that Schaub is going to come in here and step into the job and be great, there's a distinct possibility that he's going to be a bust for one reason or another.

keyfro
03-25-2007, 10:01 AM
guys schaub is still unproven...how can anyone believe his two starts that resulted in two loses mean that he's a proven QB...you just can't...now we signed him because like everyone else we believe he's a potential winner in this league for years to come...i agree with the many scouts i believe he will be a winner

but he is way unproven...he's yet to play an entire season in the nfl and he hasn't been the full-time starter yet...we'll see what the kid is made of

Pantherstang84
03-25-2007, 10:32 AM
guys schaub is still unproven...how can anyone believe his two starts that resulted in two loses mean that he's a proven QB...you just can't...now we signed him because like everyone else we believe he's a potential winner in this league for years to come...i agree with the many scouts i believe he will be a winner

but he is way unproven...he's yet to play an entire season in the nfl and he hasn't been the full-time starter yet...we'll see what the kid is made of

True he is unproven and his potential is high.

The main point of my post was to point out to the OP that mistakes were made.

They were admitted to.

What do people expect?

Do they want Mr. McNair to subject himself to a public flogging?

whiskeyrbl
03-25-2007, 10:43 AM
guys schaub is still unproven...how can anyone believe his two starts that resulted in two loses mean that he's a proven QB...you just can't...now we signed him because like everyone else we believe he's a potential winner in this league for years to come...i agree with the many scouts i believe he will be a winner

but he is way unproven...he's yet to play an entire season in the nfl and he hasn't been the full-time starter yet...we'll see what the kid is made of

Well I think getting Schaub is less of a risk than spending the same or more money on a player coming out of college that has no NFL experience.

Pantherstang84
03-25-2007, 10:46 AM
Well I think getting Schaub is less of a risk than spending the same or more money on a player coming out of college that has no NFL experience.

...and less of a risk than a guy getting paid $6 mil a year to complete most of passes for less than 5 years.

Jwwillis
03-25-2007, 10:59 AM
This is one of the problems i have with the "we payed WAAAY too much for Matt Schuab" posters. How can anyone know that yet? If he turns out like Brett Favre,Brunell,Hasselbeck we didn't, if he turns out like Feeley,Volek we did. Let all hope for the former. All this hand wringing is for little girls. As far as how much it cost the Texans, WHO CARES? Bob is worth 1.5 billion and ive sent him most of that just paying my electric bill. Some people seem to be more worried about his money than he is.

whiskeyrbl
03-25-2007, 11:03 AM
This is one of the problems i have with the "we payed WAAAY too much for Matt Schuab" posters. How can anyone know that yet? If he turns out like Brett Favre,Brunell,Hasselbeck we didn't, if he turns out like Feeley,Volek we did. Let all hope for the former. All this hand wringing is for little girls. As far as how much it cost the Texans, WHO CARES? Bob is worth 1.5 billion and ive sent him most of that just paying my electric bill. Some people seem to be more worried about his money than he is.

The reason is he cant use$1.5 billion, we only have I think somewhere around $9 mill in cap space, so they need to use it wisely.

The Pencil Neck
03-25-2007, 11:55 AM
but he is way unproven...he's yet to play an entire season in the nfl and he hasn't been the full-time starter yet...we'll see what the kid is made of

The whole proven vs. unproven argument doesn't hold a lot of water with me.

At the beginning of each year, everyone is unproven. Every year, everyone has to prove they can get it done in the situation that they're in. Every "proven" QB was unproven at one point and had to get a shot. And when a QB changes teams, it's a new situation and they have to prove themselves all over again.

Is Garcia a proven or an unproven QB? He's a probowler who's been successful on 2 teams. And unsuccessful on 2 teams. He's been to the playoffs and he's won games in the playoffs but he's got some pretty big questions. Does he only play well with good personnel or does he need to be in a West Coast type of system? How about Kitna?

So, with Carr, we had a guy that had proven that he couldn't play very well (for whatever reason). We all want to improve the QB position but any QB that we're going to be able to bring in here is going to be "unproven" to some degree and they would have to prove they can get it done here. Last year, Brees and Culpepper both had question marks and things to prove. Brees proved that he was healthy and could get it done and Culpepper proved that he was still injured and couldn't get it done. The Dolphins had the option there and they chose the wrong guy.

Coming into this offseason, the FA QB at the top of most GM's FA charts was Schaub. The question was whether the Falcons were going to let him go at all or whether they were going to keep him as an insurance policy for Vick. Does Schaub have questions to answer? Of course he does but so would anyone we brought in here. Is there a possibility that he turns in to a Scott Mitchell or a Rob Johnson? Sure there is. But there's also a good possibility that he's the next Favre or Brady.

You can't upgrade a position like QB in free agency without taking some risks. The Saints took a risk on Brees' shoulder getting healthy and him even being able to throw. The Dolphins took a risk on Culpepper and bet his knee would get better and that he could return to the form he had when he had Moss. We're taking a risk that Schaub is as good as people say he is.

keyfro
03-25-2007, 01:13 PM
pencil neck...i think you would find a lot of football people willing to argue your point...peyton manning is proven...tom brady is proven...brett farve is proven...there are plenty of QB's in this league that are proven winners...the only thing that is unknown about the upcoming season is whether or not the team around those guys is gonna be good enough to win

and yes everyone is right on schaub...there is less risk with him...there's still a ton of potential with him...it's the right move

as for bob mcnair...everyone...lay off...the dude brought back pro football to houston...the man is untouchable IMO

thunderkyss
03-25-2007, 01:18 PM
I just realized, that we are a markedly improved team, not because of how we look on paper, but because we do look different on paper.

Kubiak & Smith have let it be known, you earn your pay, or you're gone. Put up, or shut up.

I think we'll see a lot more players put up.

HoustonFrog
03-25-2007, 01:26 PM
Pretty simply, we are improved because we are moving forward and we don't have a constant cloud of one person on the horizon. We were already improving in many areas last year and went a different direction this off-season by bringing in some vets that could infuse leadership and hard play while still having DeMeco and others step up. I really think if we can add another WR and improve the secondary we have a chance to be competitive in most games and up the win total. I'm realistic and believe this year will still be a learning year "on the cusp" but I think it will be a great year and will help push us to the brink.

I will agree with others in here that no matter what, there will be complaining. I'm convinced that many were more concerned with one guy getting his due than a team moving forward.

Pantherstang84
03-25-2007, 01:35 PM
Pretty simply, we are improved because we are moving forward and we don't have a constant cloud of one person on the horizon. We were already improving in many areas last year and went a different direction this off-season by bringing in some vets that could infuse leadership and hard play while still having DeMeco and others step up. I really think if we can add another WR and improve the secondary we have a chance to be competitive in most games and up the win total. I'm realistic and believe this year will still be a learning year "on the cusp" but I think it will be a great year and will help push us to the brink.

I will agree with others in here that no matter what, there will be complaining. I'm convinced that many were more concerned with one guy getting his due than a team moving forward.

Frog,

We actually agree here. The word is out in the locker room from Kubiak/Smith.

If your not part of the solution, you are part of the problem and you should pack your bags.

A Texan
03-25-2007, 01:39 PM
How are we better on paper? Maybe you haven't realized that the game of football is not played on paper (and it's not fantasy football either). Stats can not tell you everything. Maybe I'll start paying attention to QB ratings when they start measuring things like leadership, ability to avoid sacks, include fumbles, and are actually able to measure poise. And people like Gary and Rick, though they may make mistakes, are better able to judge talent than most of us and I'm including the sports media too. I have no doubt that they examined the QB situation as dilligently as they possibly could. Anything you do has some risk attached. I'm very optimistic about the Texans' future.

The Pencil Neck
03-25-2007, 01:54 PM
pencil neck...i think you would find a lot of football people willing to argue your point...peyton manning is proven...tom brady is proven...brett farve is proven...there are plenty of QB's in this league that are proven winners...

I actually debated with myself before making the statement that everyone has to prove themselves every year because of QB's like Brady and Manning. But I decided to leave it as I wrote it because in this league, it's always a case of "what have you done for me lately." If Brady or Manning come out and start having a really bad season, they're going to have a longer leash than a Kitna or a Bollinger but if they continue to play poorly, they're going to see the bench and that "proven" tag will start having some reservations. So I'll grant you that my statement about everyone being unproven was a little bit too extreme but I don't agree that the list is particularly long: 5 or 6 guys, maybe?

But the question is which QB's are proven winners AND which ones could we have gotten? Which QB's in free agency were "proven" without reservation? There weren't any. The bottom line is that there's no way we're going to be able to acquire anyone that you could put the "proven" label on without any reservations. We're not going to get a Brady or a Manning. So calling this a bad move because the guy we got is unproven is unfair because there was no one we could get that wasn't unproven. We ended up getting what's commonly thought of as the best guy available.

Reeldeal
03-25-2007, 02:58 PM
I have been a lurker on this board since it was started. Really liked this post and the discussion that followed, so I decided to let my opinion known. I think Hollywood's concerns are justified and the people that attacked him did not help the conversation/argument.

First, to estimate if we have a better team than last year, we have to break down the fundamentals of a football game. How do you win games in the nfl(or any league for that matter)? You score more points than the other team either by you stopping them from scoring or you scoring more yourself.

Stopping the other team from scoring- Our biggest probem in my opinion on D is the pass rush. If you have no pass rush it will not matter how good your defensive backs are(that means that any draft of a cb or s would have minimal effect on our D). We have done nothing to alleviate this issue from last year. In effect our D will not be any better, no matter how much improvement people say our linebackers will have(which I feel will be minimal) without a better pass rush.

Scoring more pts. than the other team- First I will start with the OL. We have always relied on injured players coming back next year and playing(boselli, Davis, Mathis etc), and have been burned several times. Therefore I totally throw Spencer from the line leaving a glaring hole once again(or very little depth) at left tackle. With means shallow depth at both tackle positions. Second- We have a glaring hole at #2 wide receiver(not to much to discuss there). Third- RB postion= improved:) (if only for a short time)
Last and most important- QB- I think it is well known that the cover 2 was Carrs bain. Man underneath and a man on top, rotated over to our best players side (DRE). For some reason Carr could not make or would not make the throw down the middle over the linebackers inbetween the safeties to the tightend or slot receiver. I think this is where we gain an advantage with Schaub, in that he will be able to make all the throws and score more points.

In conclusion, I think that on the defensive side of the ball we will not be improved unless a pass rush can somehow be manifested through the draft or better play from existing players.
On the offense,I think we will be better because of Schaub, but we will have inferior players or incrediblely shallow depth at key positions.

So pray for no injuries this year more than most.

The Pencil Neck
03-25-2007, 03:50 PM
In conclusion, I think that on the defensive side of the ball we will not be improved unless a pass rush can somehow be manifested through the draft or better play from existing players.
On the offense,I think we will be better because of Schaub, but we will have inferior players or incrediblely shallow depth at key positions.

So pray for no injuries this year more than most.

Let me bring a ray of sunshine.

The first 3 games of the season were really bad for our defense. Our DC was learning what to do, we had a bunch of rookies, and we were trying to bring it together against 2 really tough teams and one team that we had problems with. If you take out those three games from our statistcs, our defense was actually pretty good.

We gave up 19.8 points per game. That would have put us 13th in the league if we had been able to do that for the entire season.

We gave up 289.9 yards per game. That would have put us 5th in the league if we had been able to do that for the entire season.

Yes, we need to improve some things. I'd love to see more pass rush and I'd like to see better play from our secondary but... if our offense can show up and we can play a little better defense than we did the last 13 games of last year, we can be a winning team.

geekster
03-25-2007, 04:00 PM
Let me bring a ray of sunshine.

The first 3 games of the season were really bad for our defense. Our DC was learning what to do, we had a bunch of rookies, and we were trying to bring it together against 2 really tough teams and one team that we had problems with. If you take out those three games from our statistcs, our defense was actually pretty good.

We gave up 19.8 points per game. That would have put us 13th in the league if we had been able to do that for the entire season.

We gave up 289.9 yards per game. That would have put us 5th in the league if we had been able to do that for the entire season.

Yes, we need to improve some things. I'd love to see more pass rush and I'd like to see better play from our secondary but... if our offense can show up and we can play a little better defense than we did the last 13 games of last year, we can be a winning team.Waal, lemmesee here sunshine - y'all passed on Reggie Bush and half a dozen O-Linesmen that could have helped this team last year - and now you have Matt instead of David. What has Kubimaniac and that wonderful GM done? Lost your best chance to get help on the O-Line again. On MY paper the Texans are diminished rather than better. 5 years ago, knowing they had picked up David Carr, I decided to adopt the Texans as my "2nd team" that I would keep close track of. I won't be wasting any further time until I hear there is an O-Line here that can do more than draw a paycheck.

Heath Shuler
03-25-2007, 04:09 PM
Waal, lemmesee here sunshine - y'all passed on Reggie Bush and half a dozen O-Linesmen that could have helped this team last year - and now you have Matt instead of David. What has Kubimaniac and that wonderful GM done? Lost your best chance to get help on the O-Line again. On MY paper the Texans are diminished rather than better. 5 years ago, knowing they had picked up David Carr, I decided to adopt the Texans as my "2nd team" that I would keep close track of. I won't be wasting any further time until I hear there is an O-Line here that can do more than draw a paycheck.

Poor us, how will we be able to overcome such a huge loss; you will be missed greatly

keyfro
03-25-2007, 04:23 PM
I actually debated with myself before making the statement that everyone has to prove themselves every year because of QB's like Brady and Manning. But I decided to leave it as I wrote it because in this league, it's always a case of "what have you done for me lately."

your right it is a what have you done for me lately league and that's the way it should be

with schaub we have not gotten a proven winner...what we've done is gone out and gotten a guy we believe can be a winner with a shorter time table than the rookies we could have drafted...i still feel that with kubiak coaching him this guy can turn into something we've been waiting to see from our QB since 2002...it's just matter of time and patients...i'm just curious to see how long the city of houston and the texans are willing to give schaub before they tear him apart...ala david carr

thunderkyss
03-25-2007, 04:35 PM
Let me bring a ray of sunshine.

The first 3 games of the season were really bad for our defense. Our DC was learning what to do, we had a bunch of rookies, and we were trying to bring it together against 2 really tough teams and one team that we had problems with. If you take out those three games from our statistcs, our defense was actually pretty good.

We gave up 19.8 points per game. That would have put us 13th in the league if we had been able to do that for the entire season.

We gave up 289.9 yards per game. That would have put us 5th in the league if we had been able to do that for the entire season.

Yes, we need to improve some things. I'd love to see more pass rush and I'd like to see better play from our secondary but... if our offense can show up and we can play a little better defense than we did the last 13 games of last year, we can be a winning team.

Firstly, we generated more sacks than Indianapolis, and our run defense was much better. But that did not stop the Colts from a 12-4 season, or winning the SuperBowl.

Against the Eagles, we had 7 offensive possesions, and scored on two of them. 10 points.

Against Indy, we had 10 offensive possessions, & scored on 4 of those possesions. ONly once before the 4th Qtr. We didn't start scoring TDs, until the score was 30-3 with 11:43 left to play in the game.

Against Washington, we had 8 offensive possessions, and scored 15 points on two of them.

I'm not arguing what you said about our young defense, and our 1st time defensive coordinator.. just pointing out that our offense was also inept during that stretch. If we could have stayed on the field, and generated some points of our own, our defense might not have looked so bad.

MATRIX
03-25-2007, 05:01 PM
I don't know how anyone can honestly say they don't believe this team is any better now then it was this time last season.

QB: Carr vs Schaub
RB: ??? vs Green
FB: Cook vs Leach
TE: Putzier vs Owens
WR: Johnson/Moulds vs Johnson/Walter
T: Salaam/Weigert vs Spencer/Winston
G: Pitts/McKinney vs Pitts/Weary
C: same
DE: Weaver/Babin/Peek vs Williams/Weaver/Babin
DT: Johnson/Payne vs Maddox/Johnson
Will: same
Mike: Cowart vs Ryans
Sam: same
CB: Dunta/Sanders vs Dunta/Faggins
FS: same
SS: same


You missed A TON of guys that have also been inserted...Clark,Barber? Ring a bell. We now have depth and Schaub is a legit QB, wait and see.

Reeldeal
03-25-2007, 05:49 PM
You missed A TON of guys that have also been inserted...Clark,Barber? Ring a bell. We now have depth and Schaub is a legit QB, wait and see.


I can see how you are excited and optimistic about Schaub. But the "ton" of guys that have been inserted are career backups and reserves. Our starters have not got any better in my opinion. We have only gained depth at the LB, DT, and lost depth at the OL even with the addition of the tackle from KC. (forgot his name)

DocBar
03-25-2007, 06:17 PM
Waal, lemmesee here sunshine - y'all passed on Reggie Bush and half a dozen O-Linesmen that could have helped this team last year - and now you have Matt instead of David. What has Kubimaniac and that wonderful GM done? Lost your best chance to get help on the O-Line again. On MY paper the Texans are diminished rather than better. 5 years ago, knowing they had picked up David Carr, I decided to adopt the Texans as my "2nd team" that I would keep close track of. I won't be wasting any further time until I hear there is an O-Line here that can do more than draw a paycheck. Is that a promise? I doubt anyone on this MB will be losing sleep cuz another Californut isn't going to bore us to death with their blather.

Crazyhorse
03-26-2007, 11:37 AM
If all you had to worry about is how a team looked on paper then they would just give the Worlds Series trophy to the Yankee's every year. But in spite of looking good on paper you have to play the game.
Did we gamble, hell yes we did, but remember the old saying that goes ,"behold the turtle , he only makes progress when he sticks out his neck. It's easy to be an arm chair QB , let's give these guys credit for having the guts to try something new rather than just sticking with the same old situation.
And as for the O-line, get Spencer healthy and he and Winston will anchor the formation of a solid o-line!!!!!!!!!
For all the talk of Levi Brown, go look at his combine numbers, he doesn't hold a candle to to Winston....

ROCKY
03-26-2007, 11:50 AM
Well, right after the draft no-one knew about demeco. And it is said that the most improvement comes between the 1st and 2nd years. So there is already an improvement in the team because we had so many rookie starters.

And with the FA pickups, we are alot stronger depth-wise at the LB. Matt Schaub is an upgrade at QB if for no other reason than that he is'nt damaged goods like DC was. We have clearly upgraded at RB, Ahman is a monster blocker as well, so that will make Schaub look and perform better and take pressure off the line.

But the bottom line is that you are comparing a team after last years draft with this years team before the draft, so it's not fair to make the statement that they dont look better on paper (which they do). Plus at that point last year, demeco was a backup OLB Winston was a backup lineman, and no-one knew if Owen Daniels would even make the team. You just cant tell on paper who will, and will not succeed. What they look like on paper does'nt matter