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View Full Version : Where is Carr going?????


4Texans
03-22-2007, 04:32 PM
Take a guess........

Raiders
Lions
Browns
Vikings
Dolphins
Bears

phantom17
03-22-2007, 04:42 PM
The poll forgot to put....JUNK YARD! J/K:)

BattleRedRaider
03-22-2007, 04:44 PM
http://www.scenariorecords.com/_productImages/thumbNail_4228.jpg

Schaub_to AJ_YES!
03-22-2007, 04:44 PM
and the other option, 'who cares'.

kcwilson
03-22-2007, 04:47 PM
- Al Davis likes QBs with strong arms
- Calvin Johnson is the most sure bet you can have in the draft with 0 downside
- Lane Kiffen, the new Oakland Head Coach, was a Fresno State coach when Carr was there
- Josh Booty (a 31 y/o QB, brother of John David Booty at USC, where Kiffen coached) was signed, likely as a vet insurance policy / qb mentor coach...likely meaning that Brooks is gone and creates the need for a veteran starter (wouldn't go into the season with walters, booty, and quinn/russell)
- Their defense was strong and ready for a playoff run... a rookie qb doesn't get them close to ready for playoffs this year, and arguably next year.


All signs point to a veteran QB.... plus Hulk75 has a little birdie.

4Texans
03-22-2007, 05:08 PM
Any other teams besides those listed?

real
03-22-2007, 05:11 PM
I'm gonna have to say Raiders, just for the simple fact that his brother was on here yesterday mentioning them as a possible destination...

powerfuldragon
03-22-2007, 05:14 PM
1. Raiders
2. Vikes
3. Browns
4. Fins
5. Bears
6. Lions

4Texans
03-22-2007, 07:25 PM
:poker:

Fiddy
03-22-2007, 07:26 PM
None of the above: Chiefs.

Navy_Chris
03-22-2007, 07:29 PM
Take a guess........

Raiders
Lions
Browns
Vikings
Dolphins
Bears

On a bus headed to Mayberry. Who cares? He's gone. Let's party.

Marcus
03-22-2007, 07:34 PM
The question should say . . .

Where is Carr going after he gets cut?

4Texans
03-22-2007, 07:40 PM
The question should say . . .

Where is Carr going after he gets cut?

Trade, cut, whatever...... Where's he going?

t_flare
03-22-2007, 07:41 PM
I hope he goes to Det... he will probably get Adrian Peterson.. so now he has AD and Roy Williams.. more talent than the Texans ever gave him

Navy_Chris
03-22-2007, 07:45 PM
I hope he goes to Det... he will probably get Adrian Peterson.. so now he has AD and Roy Williams.. more talent than the Texans ever gave him

don't give DC too much credit. half of his undoing here was his own fault. he said he didn't care if we won. that's def. not a guy i want on my team.

kiwitexansfan
03-22-2007, 08:18 PM
I vote Raiders.

Due to Hulk75's tip off and the fact that it is Al Davis's method to take retread QB's.

I am a bit sad about this because the Raiders is not a good situation to go to. Loopy owner, kindergarten Coach, troubled stars, bad line..... poor David.

Second Honeymoon
03-22-2007, 08:21 PM
you need to add NFL Europe as an option. Rhein Fire.

actually Oakland makes the only sense via trade but I think he will be released June 1st and will get a shot at the backup job and possible development into starter at Green Bay, Miami, NY Giants, Dallas, or Redskins.

tsip
03-22-2007, 09:12 PM
- Al Davis likes QBs with strong arms
- Calvin Johnson is the most sure bet you can have in the draft with 0 downside
- Lane Kiffen, the new Oakland Head Coach, was a Fresno State coach when Carr was there
- Josh Booty (a 31 y/o QB, brother of John David Booty at USC, where Kiffen coached) was signed, likely as a vet insurance policy / qb mentor coach...likely meaning that Brooks is gone and creates the need for a veteran starter (wouldn't go into the season with walters, booty, and quinn/russell)
- Their defense was strong and ready for a playoff run... a rookie qb doesn't get them close to ready for playoffs this year, and arguably next year.


All signs point to a veteran QB.... plus Hulk75 has a little birdie.

Brooks was released months ago...so the HC use to coach Carr??...good thing or bad thing? Really though, Raiders, Carrs your man--get him back home!

DarkNinja
03-22-2007, 09:17 PM
and the other option, 'who cares'.

I totally agree....get this guy a beer.:lightbulb:

Ole Miss Texan
03-22-2007, 09:19 PM
uuhh. you left out two teams.

Tampa Bay - We want to get ALL the QB's
Jacksonville- best QB to beat the texans is Carr, hell he's done it 56 times in 5 years!!

tsip
03-22-2007, 09:20 PM
I hope he goes to Det... he will probably get Adrian Peterson.. so now he has AD and Roy Williams.. more talent than the Texans ever gave him

Det's got a 4000yd/20tds + QB but just think what David could do about them 60+ sacks the Lions had last year--century mark, maybe?

DocBar
03-22-2007, 09:20 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v161/SteelBlue/carrwaldo.jpg
I just love photo shop. Very much funny

Please_Evolve
03-22-2007, 09:22 PM
I think Carolina should get mentioned here. Weinke isn't really that good at all and looked horrible after Delhomme went down. Something didn't click this year with that team. I had them slotted for the NFC title game after picking up DeAngleo Wiliiams and getting Keyshawn(dear god i said something good about Keyshawn).

Either Delhomme had an injury he wasn't privy about that lingered or the team was lost out the gates without Steve Smith. The cinderella story might've caught up with Jake and they need to have some backup plan better then what's brewing at QB. If Delhomem doesn't light the world on fire next year out of the gates you got an experienced started behind him who isn't 98 like Weinke.

If he wants to start the most likely destiantion is Oakland but i think that Carolina would be a good situation for Dave.

The Pencil Neck
03-22-2007, 09:47 PM
I think Carolina should get mentioned here. Weinke isn't really that good at all and looked horrible after Delhomme went down. Something didn't click this year with that team. I had them slotted for the NFC title game after picking up DeAngleo Wiliiams and getting Keyshawn(dear god i said something good about Keyshawn).

Either Delhomme had an injury he wasn't privy about that lingered or the team was lost out the gates without Steve Smith. The cinderella story might've caught up with Jake and they need to have some backup plan better then what's brewing at QB. If Delhomem doesn't light the world on fire next year out of the gates you got an experienced started behind him who isn't 98 like Weinke.

If he wants to start the most likely destiantion is Oakland but i think that Carolina would be a good situation for Dave.

AND, they cut Weinke.

4Texans
03-23-2007, 08:47 AM
:wheel:

Bullpen Drew
03-23-2007, 10:09 AM
This Carr is going to the junkyard!

Trap_Star
03-23-2007, 10:11 AM
Carr is heading straight for the exit at Reliant...:victory:

HOU-TEX
03-23-2007, 10:19 AM
Who cares?? I just hope we get something in return. Anything, please anything.:dance2:

4Texans
03-23-2007, 11:01 AM
I wanted to see Carr succeed here as much as anyone, but unfortunatle it didn't work out. I don't put all the blame on him for the Texans lack of wins. I believe a change will do him good. He was the face of the franchise from the very beginning, and has represented the team with class. I really want him to have some success where ever he ends up, unless he's playing the Texans. If we could go back to that first year, I wish the Texans would have started a veteran QB and let Carr carry a clip board. What I really wish is for the Texans to have traded out of the 1st pick for more picks and build up the team.....

It's a new beginning for Carr and the Texans.

tsip
03-27-2007, 03:09 AM
Why hasn't Carr been signed yet? He can be had for 'bargain basement' money. Hulk, call a few of those 20 teams that were knocking on David's door--times a wastin', let's get David with his new team....

potisyourfriend
03-27-2007, 06:30 AM
On the Ticket the guy filling in for DP said he should go to Green Bay.. They actually talked in length about DC.. And of course he had some guy on saying DC never had a line or RB to protect him..

TheOgre
03-27-2007, 08:16 AM
Wherever he ends up, I hope it is a good situation for him.

Hulk75
03-27-2007, 11:57 AM
Were is David Carr going..........

Carolina Panthers

Cleveland Browns

Anyways fellas there are a lot of you guys I will miss, thanks for all the conversations I have enjoyed them and wish the best of luck to you guys. Shaub is a good guy, he called David to tell him that he hopes there is no ill will toward him and David said no it is all a business. Funny........Shaub asked if he knew anywere to live in Houston and David said My house is for sale, I thought that was kind of funny. Shaub said he also is not going to wear #8, he said he would wear #7 I believe. Anyways you have to rerspect a guy like that and I do, he is a good guy. Anyways fellas when David gets on his knew team I will stop by when we play you to talk a little trash:dance2: so untill then thanks fellas some of you guys have been great, I personally will be here in Houston still and will follow the team a little. But hey Good Luck to you guys in your next season (DONT SCREW THIS PICK UP):) and I will see you guys on the flip side. Good Luck to you guys when you come down to play us in Carolina or Cleveland!? or Wherever you will need it with Julius and company............:)

God Bless, HULK75

PS. Seattle, Oakland, Bills, Miami and Bears as well

The Pencil Neck
03-27-2007, 12:01 PM
God Bless, HULK75


Good luck, man.

threetoedpete
03-27-2007, 12:03 PM
Were is David Carr going..........

Carolina Panthers

Cleveland Browns

Anyways fellas there are a lot of you guys I will miss, thanks for all the conversations I have enjoyed them and wish the best of luck to you guys. Shaub is a good guy, he called David to tell him that he hopes there is no ill will toward him and David said no it is all a business. Funny........Shaub asked if he knew anywere to live in Houston and David said My house is for sale, I thought that was kind of funny. Shaub said he also is not going to wear #8, he said he would wear #7 I believe. Anyways you have to rerspect a guy like that and I do, he is a good guy. Anyways fellas when David gets on his knew team I will stop by when we play you to talk a little trash:dance2: so untill then thanks fellas some of you guys have been great, I personally will be here in Houston still and will follow the team a little. But hey Good Luck to you guys in your next season (DONT SCREW THIS PICK UP):) and I will see you guys on the flip side. Good Luck to you guys when you come down to play us in Carolina or Cleveland!? or Wherever you will need it with Julius and company............:)

God Bless, HULK75

PS. Seattle, Oakland, Bills, Miami and Bears as well



Adios Hulk. hope for nothing but the best for your family. Spend the money well. You earned it in spades.

Texan_Bill
03-27-2007, 12:03 PM
Peace Hulk!! Thanks for what you have contributed to the boards and good luck to David - wherever he winds up... I hope he does well - well right up until we play him and then of course I would like to intercept three times and sack him about eight times... :)

HuttoKarl
03-27-2007, 12:30 PM
Who cares?? I just hope we get something in return. Anything, please anything.:dance2:

Does the satisfaction of not having Carr as our QB count as "anything"?

Lucky
03-27-2007, 12:37 PM
Anyways fellas there are a lot of you guys I will miss, thanks for all the conversations I have enjoyed them and wish the best of luck to you guys.
Hey, don't leave. Come over to the new forum and let us know what's up David. He still has a lot of fans here. Plus, it's always good to hear from an NFL 'insider'. What do you say?

Exithios
03-27-2007, 01:41 PM
The Dolphins are starting to look like the most likely candidate for Carr as interest in him was confirmed by the Dolphins GM.

http://fflivewire.com/Article.asp?ID=3272007trl8476rm

mike230765
03-27-2007, 01:58 PM
I wish it would have been better for David here he is a nice guy. So who exactly was David wanting? D'Brick? or Reggie? which did he feel gave himie the best chance?

Good luck

19-10
03-27-2007, 01:58 PM
Did Hulks post say anything at all? Are we supposed to read between the lines? I haven't read very many of his posts. I know they are brothers but does he work for him too?

kastofsna
03-27-2007, 02:00 PM
The Dolphins are starting to look like the most likely candidate for Carr as interest in him was confirmed by the Dolphins GM.

http://fflivewire.com/Article.asp?ID=3272007trl8476rm
*sigh*

Hulk75
03-27-2007, 02:00 PM
The Dolphins are starting to look like the most likely candidate for Carr as interest in him was confirmed by the Dolphins GM.

http://fflivewire.com/Article.asp?ID=3272007trl8476rm

Yea just remeber that David has the final okay on it. Miami?!?!?!

B.Diddy
03-27-2007, 02:11 PM
Were is David Carr going..........

Carolina Panthers

Cleveland Browns

Anyways fellas there are a lot of you guys I will miss, thanks for all the conversations I have enjoyed them and wish the best of luck to you guys. Shaub is a good guy, he called David to tell him that he hopes there is no ill will toward him and David said no it is all a business. Funny........Shaub asked if he knew anywere to live in Houston and David said My house is for sale, I thought that was kind of funny. Shaub said he also is not going to wear #8, he said he would wear #7 I believe. Anyways you have to rerspect a guy like that and I do, he is a good guy. Anyways fellas when David gets on his knew team I will stop by when we play you to talk a little trash:dance2: so untill then thanks fellas some of you guys have been great, I personally will be here in Houston still and will follow the team a little. But hey Good Luck to you guys in your next season (DONT SCREW THIS PICK UP):) and I will see you guys on the flip side. Good Luck to you guys when you come down to play us in Carolina or Cleveland!? or Wherever you will need it with Julius and company............:)

God Bless, HULK75

PS. Seattle, Oakland, Bills, Miami and Bears as well



From the bottom of my heart i wish the Carr Family the best David is a class act as is your father i hope he has a Hall of Fame career some where else

P.S. hopefully it's a team we don't play alot lol

Exithios
03-27-2007, 02:17 PM
Yea just remeber that David has the final okay on it. Miami?!?!?!

I understand Hulk, I'm not exactly "in-the-know". Just posted what I saw coming straight from the GM of the Dolphins.

Keep us posted bro!

NFLforher
03-27-2007, 03:06 PM
Were is David Carr going..........

Carolina Panthers

Cleveland Browns

Anyways fellas there are a lot of you guys I will miss, thanks for all the conversations I have enjoyed them and wish the best of luck to you guys. Shaub is a good guy, he called David to tell him that he hopes there is no ill will toward him and David said no it is all a business. Funny........Shaub asked if he knew anywere to live in Houston and David said My house is for sale, I thought that was kind of funny. Shaub said he also is not going to wear #8, he said he would wear #7 I believe. Anyways you have to rerspect a guy like that and I do, he is a good guy. Anyways fellas when David gets on his knew team I will stop by when we play you to talk a little trash:dance2: so untill then thanks fellas some of you guys have been great, I personally will be here in Houston still and will follow the team a little. But hey Good Luck to you guys in your next season (DONT SCREW THIS PICK UP):) and I will see you guys on the flip side. Good Luck to you guys when you come down to play us in Carolina or Cleveland!? or Wherever you will need it with Julius and company............:)

God Bless, HULK75

PS. Seattle, Oakland, Bills, Miami and Bears as well


Hey Hulk, I'll see ya around. :toast2:


Panthers? Now, that would be good.

uhcougar08
03-27-2007, 04:07 PM
Best wishes to David. Hope he succeeds in his new home. Good Luck!

A Texan
03-27-2007, 09:09 PM
Carolina fans don't seem to be aware of Carr being a candidate. They're mentionimg Anthony Wright and Joey Harrington with most preferring Harrington.
http://www.panthersfanz.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10248

NFLforher
03-27-2007, 09:29 PM
Carolina fans don't seem to be aware of Carr being a candidate. They're mentionimg Anthony Wright and Joey Harrington with most preferring Harrington.
http://www.panthersfanz.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10248



Fans are often the last to know.

BlackHeart
03-27-2007, 09:45 PM
Fans are often the last to know.

Don't count out the Oakland Raiders !! I still think he can still end up here

swisher
03-27-2007, 11:19 PM
Hulk, if you're still here, is Derek staying to play QB at Clements?

NFLforher
03-27-2007, 11:29 PM
Hulk, if you're still here, is Derek staying to play QB at Clements?


Yes.


http://www.texasfootball.com/index.php?s=&url_channel_id=33&url_article_id=1187&url_subchannel_id=&change_well_id=2

NFLforher
03-27-2007, 11:31 PM
Don't count out the Oakland Raiders !! I still think he can still end up here


I'd never count out the Raiders. :muscles:


David to Calvin. Sound good? Is your line any better?

swisher
03-27-2007, 11:33 PM
thanks...and that's good new for my alma mater!

NFLforher
03-27-2007, 11:34 PM
http://forums.houstontexans.com/showthread.php?p=645048&posted=1#post645048


Source reveals Carr will be in Miami Thursday.

And I'll reveal my source, my brother who works at the 4 seasons Hotel

in Miami off North Shore Dr. He has a room booked for the weekend???

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
__________________

Jeffery
03-28-2007, 11:10 AM
Yea just remeber that David has the final okay on it. Miami?!?!?!

I noticed you have a Raiders avatar now. I was kinda hoping Carolina, as I am trying to relocate there to be with my kiddos. It would be cool to see Carr find his confidence again in Carolina. I think Carolina has a much better environment too than the Raiders, although the Raiders would be closer to Carr's home. The Raiders kinda seem like a circus the past couple of years.

kastofsna
03-28-2007, 12:21 PM
Carolina fans don't seem to be aware of Carr being a candidate. They're mentionimg Anthony Wright and Joey Harrington with most preferring Harrington.
http://www.panthersfanz.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10248
these guys aren't too bright to prefer harrington in anything. i'd take carr over him without a hesitant thought.

hadaad
03-28-2007, 12:30 PM
these guys aren't too bright to prefer harrington in anything. i'd take carr over him without a hesitant thought.

I'm pretty sure he meant Harrington over Wright. I'd take that too, salary being equal.

real
03-28-2007, 12:58 PM
(DONT SCREW THIS PICK UP):)


A lot can be assumed from this statement....

kastofsna
03-28-2007, 02:15 PM
I'm pretty sure he meant Harrington over Wright. I'd take that too, salary being equal.
yeah i know. but the fact that they're not even bringing up carr's name isn't a good sign. and i'll take wright over harrington, too.

GP
03-28-2007, 04:14 PM
uMiami is the best place for David:

1. That whole state could care less if Miami wins or not. It's too consumed with golfing, going to the beach, hanging out at the clubs. There's just not the same passion and level of interest as there is in Texas. The state cares about its college programs, and that's about it. So David would have it easy there with the low fan interest and all. He looks good, and that's what matters in sunshine states.

2. Great weather. Except for that whole "playing in Buffalo, New England, and New York thing" that he'd do every year.

3. Easy-going owner, a guy who will like David. Wayne was so nice to Saban that it was sick. He would be a great owner for David, standing by him through it all.

Darren hints at Cleveland and/or Carolina. Why he would want to go to two teams who have NO legit running back is beyond me. DeAngelo might be star some day, but it's unproven yet.

I just don't see David in Cleveland or Carolina. Cleveland fans would burn his house down halfway through the season if he can't get it done...they are passionate about their Browns. Carolina is better than Miami as far as fan interest goes, but they have NASCAR and are just a completely Tar Heel-driven state.

I dunno, I'm not biting that Carr goes to Cleveland to Carolina. Miami is his best bet, the place he could enjoy himself the most.

And the Raiders? Forget about it. We're talking two ice picks and a broken off machete in David's car tire...and that's just in the preseason........

texansturningthecorner
03-28-2007, 04:17 PM
Hulk, if you're still here, is Derek staying to play QB at Clements?

he mentioned Carolina and miami yesterday and he said he was staying here

hadaad
03-28-2007, 04:23 PM
yeah i know. but the fact that they're not even bringing up carr's name isn't a good sign. and i'll take wright over harrington, too.

Isn't a good sign? I thought you were all about the Brady Quinn to the Dolphins pick. Wouldn't that make the no-Carr-mention a good thing?

Or are you saying that they're not mentioning that Carr would be a bad pick?

I don't like Anthony Wright. I don't really know why, I just don't really care for him as a quarterback.

kastofsna
03-28-2007, 07:16 PM
seattle is now huge on Carr, according to schefter.

Cheroqui
03-28-2007, 07:19 PM
Yeah they just said that Seattle is interested in Carr on NFL Network.

Cheroqui
03-28-2007, 07:23 PM
NFL Network just gave an Adam Sheftner update about Seattle being interested in bringing him over...

swisher
03-28-2007, 07:23 PM
I'm starting to think more and more that Carr will be a backup next season.

NFLforher
03-28-2007, 07:32 PM
he mentioned Carolina and miami yesterday and he said he was staying here


Darren is Hulk75. Derek is a high school QB.

http://www.texasfootball.com/index.php?s=&url_channel_id=33&url_article_id=1187&url_subchannel_id=&change_well_id=2


So while David Carr is shopping for his next NFL city, Fort Bend Clements head coach Jeff Hulme is relieved to know Derek Carr, the younger brother of David, will remain a high school student at Fort Bend Clements.

"(The Carr family) feels real good about the situation here at Clements," said its head football coach, Jeff Hulme, who met with Derek and his family after the Schaub news broke. "He's established himself as the quarterback. They're going to stay here and finish his career at Clements."

kastofsna
03-28-2007, 07:37 PM
I'm starting to think more and more that Carr will be a backup next season.
of course he will be lol.

NFLforher
03-28-2007, 08:24 PM
of course he will be lol.



We'll see.

Remember Steve Young???

4Texans
03-28-2007, 08:44 PM
http://www.kffl.com/hotw/nfl

Seahawks | Carr expected to visit team next week
Wed, 28 Mar 2007 17:19:20 -0700

Mike Sando, of the Tacoma News Tribune, reports free-agent QB David Carr (Texans) is expected to visit the Seattle Seahawks sometime next week.

Panthers | Carr to visit
Wed, 28 Mar 2007 17:01:18 -0700

Pat Yasinskas, of the Charlotte Observer, reports the Carolina Panthers will meet with unrestricted free-agent QB David Carr (Texans) early next week.

RaiderInNY
03-29-2007, 09:12 PM
Oakland is still in this IMO -- The Kiffin connect is a viable one, getting closer to home as well, and if C.Johnson is that much of a lock, he's the type of guy that Al Davis generally loves, big, freakish speed etc., and he would pair up nicely with Carr.

bigcarlos
03-29-2007, 09:24 PM
Oakland

BlackHeart
03-29-2007, 09:59 PM
Oakland

An inside source that works for the Raiders just told me that the Raiders are talking to David Carr and his agent and are trying to sign him before next weekend.
But the problem is the Fins, Carolina, Browns and seahawks are talking to Carr as well. My source is reliable by the way so I don't want you guys to think I'm a False Rumor Monger or anything.

NFLforher
03-29-2007, 11:20 PM
An inside source that works for the Raiders just told me that the Raiders are talking to David Carr and his agent and are trying to sign him before next weekend.
But the problem is the Fins, Carolina, Browns and seahawks are talking to Carr as well. My source is reliable by the way so I don't want you guys to think I'm a False Rumor Monger or anything.



I don't.

:victory:

hadaad
03-30-2007, 12:31 AM
An inside source that works for the Raiders just told me that the Raiders are talking to David Carr and his agent and are trying to sign him before next weekend.
But the problem is the Fins, Carolina, Browns and seahawks are talking to Carr as well. My source is reliable by the way so I don't want you guys to think I'm a False Rumor Monger or anything.

Of course, you're not real. Everything about you is fake. Really, a Raider fan with manners and grammar?

You false rumor monger!

TexanFan881
03-30-2007, 12:34 AM
Good for Carr, but honestly I could care less about where he goes now. Hopefully to Oakland because they need him the worst.

BlackHeart
03-30-2007, 12:53 AM
Of course, you're not real. Everything about you is fake. Really, a Raider fan with manners and grammar?

You false rumor monger!

I hope you wasn't serious

hadaad
03-30-2007, 01:00 AM
I hope you wasn't serious

Me? On the innernet? Serious? That hurts, man. Of course I wasn't serious.

See you on the new board?

NFLforher
03-30-2007, 10:12 AM
Good for Carr, but honestly I could care less about where he goes now.

If you could care less, why are you reading and posting on a thread about where Carr is going? :joker:

Jeffery
03-30-2007, 10:17 AM
Any recent word? Seems like he is visiting several places. This may work out for him since several teams seem to be interested.

Hopefully, he gets into a position where he can get his confidence back and leave the shellshocked memories behind him. He may need to sit for a while with a clipboad to get his fire back.

4Texans
03-30-2007, 01:03 PM
Any recent word? Seems like he is visiting several places. This may work out for him since several teams seem to be interested.

Hopefully, he gets into a position where he can get his confidence back and leave the shellshocked memories behind him. He may need to sit for a while with a clipboad to get his fire back.

He visits Carolina and Seattle next week.

I would like to see him go to Seattle and be a back up next year. He'd get to work with Holmgren, and Hassleback hasn't been that healthy.....