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raidermike
03-22-2007, 02:21 PM
Hello there fans of the only franchise we have never defeated. I would apreciate your help. From seeing Collins, Schroeder, and Hostetler I realize that the media doesn't always paint an accurate picture of quarterbacks. Those guys were all terrible, but seemed to gain media praise.

Anyway, I've recently decided that I think the Raiders should acquire David Carr. The way I see it, he's had a weak O-Line for his entire career and he completed over 68 percent of his passes last year. Plus, if you take the Pats game away, he would have only had 8 INTs.

This is where you come in. I believe nobody knows a team's QB better than their hardcore fans. I've heard bad things through the media and also that the Houston fans don't like him there. Is this true? If so, why?

Thank you in advance.

noxiousdog
03-22-2007, 02:24 PM
Carr is great. I think he's worth the #1 overall pick. Tell all your friends and email your front office.

raidermike
03-22-2007, 02:25 PM
haha...

MATRIX
03-22-2007, 02:25 PM
Easy, they blame Carr for the records we have had.

After year say 3, nobody cared the O-line sucked. They just started hating him.

Give him a decent line and a game or so to know he isn't going to get hit every 3rd snap...he should be fine.

That never happened here.

raidermike
03-22-2007, 02:28 PM
Easy, they blame Carr for the records we have had.

After year say 3, nobody cared the O-line sucked. They just started hating him.

Give him a decent line and a game or so to know he isn't going to get hit every 3rd snap...he should be fine.

That never happened here.

Thank you....See, this what I was thinking, but I don't watch the Texans so you guys would know better than me.

El Tejano
03-22-2007, 02:30 PM
Hello there fans of the only franchise we have never defeated. I would apreciate your help. From seeing Collins, Schroeder, and Hostetler I realize that the media doesn't always paint an accurate picture of quarterbacks. Those guys were all terrible, but seemed to gain media praise.

Anyway, I've recently decided that I think the Raiders should acquire David Carr. The way I see it, he's had a weak O-Line for his entire career and he completed over 68 percent of his passes last year. Plus, if you take the Pats game away, he would have only had 8 INTs.

This is where you come in. I believe nobody knows a team's QB better than their hardcore fans. I've heard bad things through the media and also that the Houston fans don't like him there. Is this true? If so, why?

Thank you in advance.

There are those that like him, those that don't, and those that wanted to see change.

I fit in the first and last. David Carr is class and not glass. He took every beating and kept getting up and he never threw any of his teammates under the bus. He never received any support from his coaches and the front office wanted more than anyting to see him be the man. There were times when you saw David and thought that is why he was the #1 pick, there were times when you thought they aren't helping him look like a #1 pick and then there were times when he proved every Carr Hater right.

If you are looking for a QB that will not be a hot head or cause controversy and pull out some wins every now and then on his own or will let his D win the game and will take a beating and keep on getting up. DC is your man. IMO that is better than what you have now in cry baby Aaron Brooks and....and......see what I'm sayin?

If you aren't looking for any of the above, draft an unproven QB.

kiwitexansfan
03-22-2007, 02:31 PM
Carr is great. I think he's worth the #1 overall pick. Tell all your friends and email your front office.


I don't understand why you find this so funny he was worth the #1 overall when he was drafted and now he has NFL experience, surely that increases his value. So perhaps we need your #1 and 3rd rounder.... well that is the pitch I would be giving Al Davis.

Oh and as for Carr, he is a very talented, high character guy that has been beaten down by taking way too many hits and has lost the locker room.

Will a change of scenery allow him to get his groove back? I hope so.

The Pencil Neck
03-22-2007, 02:31 PM
Hello there fans of the only franchise we have never defeated. I would apreciate your help. From seeing Collins, Schroeder, and Hostetler I realize that the media doesn't always paint an accurate picture of quarterbacks. Those guys were all terrible, but seemed to gain media praise.

Anyway, I've recently decided that I think the Raiders should acquire David Carr. The way I see it, he's had a weak O-Line for his entire career and he completed over 68 percent of his passes last year. Plus, if you take the Pats game away, he would have only had 8 INTs.

This is where you come in. I believe nobody knows a team's QB better than their hardcore fans. I've heard bad things through the media and also that the Houston fans don't like him there. Is this true? If so, why?

Thank you in advance.

Well, first, you must know that we really, really want you to take him off our hands. Really. Please.

The opinion on David is pretty split. There's a small but vocal minority that really love him.

I defended him up until this last season using the o-line excuse and the lack of weapons excuse.

But.

The truth is that he's not a good QB. He's indecisive and he makes bad decisions. He made our line look even worse than it was by holding the ball when he had to get rid of it and by being indecisive. He has very bad pocket presence. Even when he has time, he gets panicky that he's going to get hit, that rattles him, and doesn't make the open throws.

His completion percentage was high last year because he rarely threw further than 5 yards down the field. He has a problem of locking onto his receiver and sometimes he throws it to him even if there are 4 people around him.

In the last half of the season, he threw 2 TD's and only one of those was in a game we were even competing in. Even when our running game and defense were operating well, he played poorly. He started off the season OK (except for some boneheaded fumbles and sacks) but as the season wore on, his performance degraded. You saw the game where we got a net -5 yards passing against you guys. By that point, he was a shambles.

That's my honest assessment but please, trade us SOMETHING for him. Please.

Vinny
03-22-2007, 02:32 PM
Hello there fans of the only franchise we have never defeated. I would apreciate your help. From seeing Collins, Schroeder, and Hostetler I realize that the media doesn't always paint an accurate picture of quarterbacks. Those guys were all terrible, but seemed to gain media praise.

Anyway, I've recently decided that I think the Raiders should acquire David Carr. The way I see it, he's had a weak O-Line for his entire career and he completed over 68 percent of his passes last year. Plus, if you take the Pats game away, he would have only had 8 INTs.

This is where you come in. I believe nobody knows a team's QB better than their hardcore fans. I've heard bad things through the media and also that the Houston fans don't like him there. Is this true? If so, why?

Thank you in advance.
If you like watching those old timey cops and robbers movies where the keystone cops are running around with the film sped up running into each other you will like Carr behind center. Not only does he will throw the ball into the stands on 2 point conversions, sack himself, kill drives single handedly, laugh and smile after each loss, he will bring you all kinds of family and friends to post on your message board and blame everyone but him for his problems. If you like TD passes you won't like him much.

raidermike
03-22-2007, 02:34 PM
There are those that like him, those that don't, and those that wanted to see change.

I fit in the first and last. David Carr is class and not glass. He took every beating and kept getting up and he never threw any of his teammates under the bus. He never received any support from his coaches and the front office wanted more than anyting to see him be the man. There were times when you saw David and thought that is why he was the #1 pick, there were times when you thought they aren't helping him look like a #1 pick and then there were times when he proved every Carr Hater right.

If you are looking for a QB that will not be a hot head or cause controversy and pull out some wins every now and then on his own or will let his D win the game and will take a beating and keep on getting up. DC is your man. IMO that is better than what you have now in cry baby Aaron Brooks and....and......see what I'm sayin?

If you aren't looking for any of the above, draft an unproven QB.

The Raiders need a QB that can just be consistent enough to let the D win games. Luckily, Aaron Brooks was cut (should have never been signed). Currently, we have Andrew Walter and Josh Booty (although he probably wont make the team). I'd just rather Carr and Calvin over JaMarcus. Thank you for your input.

Vinny
03-22-2007, 02:36 PM
If you are looking for a QB that will not be a hot head or cause controversy and pull out some wins every now and then on his own or will let his D win the game and will take a beating and keep on getting up. DC is your man.

Since when did this ever happen? In 75 career starts he has only 3 games with over 200+ yards passing and a combined 2 or more TD's in a victory...ie he can't carry a team. He can only play small ball.

HOU-TEX
03-22-2007, 02:38 PM
If you like watching those old timey cops and robbers movies where the keystone cops are running around with the film sped up running into each other you will like Carr behind center. Not only does he will throw the ball into the stands on 2 point conversions, sack himself, kill drives single handedly, laugh and smile after each loss, he will bring you all kinds of family and friends to post on your message board and blame everyone but him for his problems. If you like TD passes you won't like him much.

That's freakin outstanding. That's the funniest thing I've read today if not all week. While it may be true, you at least made it sound entertaining.:)

kiwitexansfan
03-22-2007, 02:39 PM
The Raiders need a QB that can just be consistent enough to let the D win games. Luckily, Aaron Brooks was cut (should have never been signed). Currently, we have Andrew Walter and Josh Booty (although he probably wont make the team). I'd just rather Carr and Calvin over JaMarcus. Thank you for your input.

Carr could fit what you are asking for.

He doesn't make too many mistakes, can pick up first downs with his feet, can move the chains in small chunks.

Mr. White
03-22-2007, 02:40 PM
There are 2 different schools of thought among Texans fans.

1. Carr is a really good QB that had been done wrong by the organization. They never got him much of an O-Line or offensive weapons.

2. He's the main problem.
He doesn't make reads after the first receiver.
He holds on to the ball too long.
He doesn't throw long.
He ducks his head when the pass rush is coming and takes the sack.
He fumbles when he gets sacked.
He fumbles snaps.

Exithios
03-22-2007, 02:41 PM
Hello there fans of the only franchise we have never defeated. I would apreciate your help. From seeing Collins, Schroeder, and Hostetler I realize that the media doesn't always paint an accurate picture of quarterbacks. Those guys were all terrible, but seemed to gain media praise.

Anyway, I've recently decided that I think the Raiders should acquire David Carr. The way I see it, he's had a weak O-Line for his entire career and he completed over 68 percent of his passes last year. Plus, if you take the Pats game away, he would have only had 8 INTs.

This is where you come in. I believe nobody knows a team's QB better than their hardcore fans. I've heard bad things through the media and also that the Houston fans don't like him there. Is this true? If so, why?

Thank you in advance.

Carr still has the potential to be a great QB in the NFL. He is going to have to be taken back to square one. He is damaged goods from his previous stints with our horrible O-Line in the begining of the franchise. After our line improved he seemed to have vietnam flashbacks mid-game and would start watching for charlie flanking his rear rather than the receivers downfield.

He tends to lock on a receiver rather than spanning the routes.

He has just discovered how to maneuver the pocket this past year and that leads me to beleive that he will grow on this aspect in the future. His footwork showed signs of life but he tends to wait too long before making the decision to tuck and run.

He has great short to mid-range accuracy but his side-arm throwing style will leave a bad taste in your mouth after 5+ passes are deflected a game. This is the one aspect I truly beleive will have to be worked around, throwing styles of NFL QB's are not corrected over night.

He tends to push off with his front foot when dropping back to pass which causes the center to step back on his foot shutting down a play before it ever starts.

While I may not have touched on everything, I think I have given you the basics. These are things he's had 5 years to improve on and for us Houston fans it was too little too late. Alot of his flaws can be corrected with proper coaching, hopefully Lane Kiffin will be the man to do it.

Mr. White
03-22-2007, 02:43 PM
The Raiders need a QB that can just be consistent enough to let the D win games. Luckily, Aaron Brooks was cut (should have never been signed). Currently, we have Andrew Walter and Josh Booty (although he probably wont make the team). I'd just rather Carr and Calvin over JaMarcus. Thank you for your input.

If the Raiders end up with Carr, then pray for Joe Thomas to get drafted #1. He'll need all the time that he can get.

HOU-TEX
03-22-2007, 02:43 PM
Carr could fit what you are asking for.

He doesn't make too many mistakes, can pick up first downs with his feet, can move the chains in small chunks.

This threads getting funnier with every post. "Doesn't make too mant mistakes", lol

raidermike
03-22-2007, 02:48 PM
Carr still has the potential to be a great QB in the NFL. He is going to have to be taken back to square one. He is damaged goods from his previous stints with our horrible O-Line in the begining of the franchise. After our line improved he seemed to have vietnam flashbacks mid-game and would start watching for charlie flanking his rear rather than the receivers downfield.

He tends to lock on a receiver rather than spanning the routes.

He has just discovered how to maneuver the pocket this past year and that leads me to beleive that he will grow on this aspect in the future. His footwork showed signs of life but he tends to wait too long before making the decision to tuck and run.

He has great short to mid-range accuracy but his side-arm throwing style will leave a bad taste in your mouth after 5+ passes are deflected a game. This is the one aspect I truly beleive will have to be worked around, throwing styles of NFL QB's are not corrected over night.

He tends to push off with his front foot when dropping back to pass which causes the center to step back on his foot shutting down a play before it ever starts.

While I may not have touched on everything, I think I have given you the basics. These are things he's had 5 years to improve on and for us Houston fans it was too little too late. Alot of his flaws can be corrected with proper coaching, hopefully Lane Kiffin will be the man to do it.

Wow, that is an AWESOME post. Thank you very much. I'm not too concerned with his throwing motion if he will complete close to 70 percent of his passes. Gannon had a side arm motion, as well. As for Lane Kiffin, he was his QB coach at Fresno State.

keyser
03-22-2007, 02:55 PM
You're going to get people on both sides of the fence, here. Just read through any Carr thread and you'll see a lot. Some feel that he is the cause of almost all of the Texans' woes. Others feel that he could be a star, if only the team gave him the support. Everything he does is viewed two ways. For example, personality-wise, he's not the type to ever blame others, and is a pretty humble guy. Some see this as a positive, and some as a negative (that he doesn't get in other players' faces when they mess up, or that he doesn't show enough fire on his own). His high percentage completion is either a sign he can be very accurate, or a sign that he was unable to make tough throws and always took the short, sure things.

Reality is probably somewhere in between. He never had a really good opportunity to succeed here. He's had changes in coaches and schemes, a weak O-line, inconsistent running game, etc. But, at the same time he's never lived up to the expectations people have had for him here. Some worry that perhaps we've "messed him up" from the way he's been treated, and now he'll never be able to live up to the potential that most agree he had (and many think he still has).

Even a lot of folks who have wanted Carr to go think that he'll do much better in a fresh situation, especially if he gets support in some areas that have been lacking, here. I honestly don't know if Oakland is the kind of place where he'll get that support, though.

Pantherstang84
03-22-2007, 02:58 PM
There are 2 different schools of thought among Texans fans.

1. Carr is a really good QB that had been done wrong by the organization. They never got him much of an O-Line or offensive weapons.

2. He's the main problem.
He doesn't make reads after the first receiver.
He holds on to the ball too long.
He doesn't throw long.
He ducks his head when the pass rush is coming and takes the sack.
He fumbles when he gets sacked.
He fumbles snaps.

3. 1+2=3 Probably a big dose of both.

South Texan
03-22-2007, 02:59 PM
OK...I'll take a shot at it:

Plenty of raw talent, good arm and good mobility. Class guy definately not into the "bad boy" thing. Willing to spend the extra time in the weight and film rooms. Seems to be the type that would rather lead by example rather than being very vocal.

Started his first years under a hands OFF coach, that didn't work with him like he should have. Never been behind a great O-Line. Tends to "single out" a target in passing downs and not find other open recievers. Appears to get fustrated at times and makes bad decisions, sometimes forces plays that lead to turnovers or other mistakes rather than throwing the ball away or getting out of bounds.

Biggest problem: Shell Shocked from all the sacks he has taken. May have lost his self confidence and there by lost his teammates confidence as a leader.

Best option: A new start away from Houston where he has to come in and prove himself, instead of being the "Golden Boy" that gets too much handed to him on a platter. If he finds a coach that can get inside his head to restore his confidence, he could still have a very good career.

My impressions for what it's worth.

kcwilson
03-22-2007, 02:59 PM
Wow, that is an AWESOME post. Thank you very much. I'm not too concerned with his throwing motion if he will complete close to 70 percent of his passes. Gannon had a side arm motion, as well. As for Lane Kiffin, he was his QB coach at Fresno State.

Carr's high completion percentage is due to dumping off a lot of passes the the RBs, as well as hitting Andre Johnson on WR screens and short crossing routes... less than 6 yards.

He doesn't stretch the middle of the field and started using the TE nicely this year.

However, there are posters here that will give you the his fault vs. O-Line fault argument. KnNow that it is likely a little bit of each, but after 249 sacks, and watching Carr on plays where there is minimal pressure, he does have the tendency to speed up the reads and has been skittish on game tape you watch.

He is a tough scrambler, and gains yardage on designed roll outs and scrambles. He is not the classic mobile QB in the pocket and has made many bad decisions about running out of bounds behind the line of scrimmage instead of throwing it away. He has bad habits... however has shown signs of good play making ability... see the first half of our game against St.Louis in 2005 and against Minnesota in 2004. He can be good, but he can also be easily flustered.

done88
03-22-2007, 03:50 PM
David has potential. However he is a bit slower then the game. His reads are accurate but a split second to late. He sees the open reciever but he does not get the ball there fast enough. This is due to the fact that he is so worried about being sacked he is always looking at the pressure even when there is none. This could be resolved two ways. One Having Moss could be a big help. When he gets in trouble instead of dumping to a back throw it up for Moss he has a habbit of getting it just about anyware. The difference between Moss and Johnson is that Johnson is good at beating the defender and Moss is good at taking the ball away from the defender. When David deliverd the ball too late to Johnson the defender had made up ground and Johnson would lose the jump ball. For Moss he can out jump anyone. The second thing to fix Carr is to put him in the shotgun. Not sure why the Texans refused to do so but when he was in the shotgun he was very successful.

Blake
03-22-2007, 04:01 PM
If you take Carr, then you need to beef up the offensive line, and get a dominant running game. If Carr has to do more than be a role player, then you are done.

He runs out of bounds for losses, resulting in sacks, even though he knows its bad, throws low, and gets happy feet too often.

If I was a Raider, I would stick with Russell, trade Moss, trade back into the first, and grab either Dwayne Jarrett, or Dwayne Bowe.

Actually I would try and snag Blalock in the 2nd, and with the 2nd I got from Moss get Rice, or Meachem.

powerfuldragon
03-22-2007, 04:06 PM
Carr is great. I think he's worth the #1 overall pick. Tell all your friends and email your front office.

should have closed the thread after this post.

El Tejano
03-22-2007, 04:07 PM
Since when did this ever happen? In 75 career starts he has only 3 games with over 200+ yards passing and a combined 2 or more TD's in a victory...ie he can't carry a team. He can only play small ball.

I thought he did against the Raiders two years ago, and he has played very well against the Jags (the game we didn't give up any TDs) and considering the conditions he made a great play with Jabar Gaffney against Chicago in the freezing cold that sealed the win for us.

Kaiser Toro
03-22-2007, 04:08 PM
I would wait until he is released on June 1st and offer him the minimum salary. Have him compete in camp with whoever else you have on the roster and hope that you have found a gem.

He will look good in camp and not so good in pre season and after the third game you will want him replaced. Carr's talents unfortunately do not scale in the NFL. Since you guys care less about good guy image I think that Minnesota makes more sense in order to have him compete with Jackson at QB.

HOU-TEX
03-22-2007, 04:14 PM
I thought he did against the Raiders two years ago, and he has played very well against the Jags (the game we didn't give up any TDs) and considering the conditions he made a great play with Jabar Gaffney against Chicago in the freezing cold that sealed the win for us.

Wasn't that Cory Bradford? I'm assuming you're referring to the 35-40 yd pass for a TD? That was Bradford. Not that it has anything to do with your point (whatever it is).:winky:

Hookem Horns
03-22-2007, 04:28 PM
From seeing Collins, Schroeder, and Hostetler I realize that the media doesn't always paint an accurate picture of quarterbacks. Those guys were all terrible, but seemed to gain media praise.

Everyone of those guys did something at the NFL level. All 3 played in the Super Bowl. Everyone of those guys also had a decent season at one time or another. Carr has done NOTHING. However as you mentioned, the national media is in love with him just like they were the other guys you mentioned. However with the other guys there at least was some substance to it.

I don't hate the Raiders so I really don't want to see Carr go there. Too bad Romo emerged for the Cowboys last season, Carr would look awesome in a Cowboys uniform. Carr is also a Cowboys fan so it would have been a perfect union.

powerfuldragon
03-22-2007, 04:28 PM
Hahahahahahha

TexanSam
03-22-2007, 04:39 PM
Here's my :twocents:

I think, given the right opportunity, Carr could become a good QB. I don't think he's a franchise QB, but I think he could become a Brad Johnson-ish type quarterback. He'd be good, but you certainly wouldn't think of him as your QB of the future. He's taken such a pounding here in Houston though that I'm not sure if he'll ever be the same. He's very tough and always bounces back up. He's not a vocal guy though. He's certainly not a leader. And in 5 years I've hardly ever seen him makes plays that make you go "Wow...this guy can be something". Even as bad as the Texans have been, with minimal talent around him and a piss-poor offensive line, you would still expect something from him. Carr is also a very good running QB. He can make some plays with his legs besides trying to run away from linemen and linebackers. Good arm too. Not a bazooka, but it's strong enough to make throws downfield.

Second Honeymoon
03-22-2007, 04:41 PM
If you like watching those old timey cops and robbers movies where the keystone cops are running around with the film sped up running into each other you will like Carr behind center. Not only does he will throw the ball into the stands on 2 point conversions, sack himself, kill drives single handedly, laugh and smile after each loss, he will bring you all kinds of family and friends to post on your message board and blame everyone but him for his problems. If you like TD passes you won't like him much.

let me add that Carr sucks. I am not sure Vinny covered that.

Zagen30
03-22-2007, 04:42 PM
My only thought about him going to the Raiders is that they have an O-line that is worse than ours was this year, and maybe worse than 2005's or 2002's. I think that he'd be getting flashbacks to 2005 every time he dropped back to pass only to be hammered almost immediately.

At least he'd be used to taking the pounding.

Second Honeymoon
03-22-2007, 04:43 PM
like i said jerk, class act vinny. yea i know it is just your opinion.

enjoy the Raiders forum....you and the California Homers wont be missed

jdog
03-22-2007, 04:45 PM
The Raiders need a QB that can just be consistent enough to let the D win games. Luckily, Aaron Brooks was cut (should have never been signed). Currently, we have Andrew Walter and Josh Booty (although he probably wont make the team). I'd just rather Carr and Calvin over JaMarcus. Thank you for your input.

Carr is tough and durable. He is a good person. He can run. He has good accuracy and arm strength.

NRowl
03-22-2007, 04:55 PM
A poster on this message board (sorry, I forgot who it was but they deserve credit) made a very good comparison for Carr.

He is a lot like Daunte Culpepper - He has all the physical abilities needed to be very good. He could be a huge asset if he is surrounded by other players that are very good. But doesn't show signs of being able to elevate the game of average players.

potisyourfriend
03-22-2007, 04:59 PM
Easy, they blame Carr for the records we have had.

After year say 3, nobody cared the O-line sucked. They just started hating him.

Give him a decent line and a game or so to know he isn't going to get hit every 3rd snap...he should be fine.

That never happened here.



Giving up 2.5 sacks a game this year isn't terrible.. So worrying about getting sacked every 3rd snap is alittle overboard..

HomeBred_Texan
03-22-2007, 05:26 PM
David Carr will bloom in a different enviroment like Oakland. He needs a fresh start for sure. Most of the fans here are down on him rather it is or isn't his fault. He did play a game and tie the league for the most consecutive passes of 32 IIRC. He has never had both 3 good WR's and a good running back tandem at the same time. It was either or for this team. The old coaching staff has let him down tremendously. Some of us wish him the best...

Personally I wish we had so much money we could keep him and Matt and let them compete for the starting position. My money would be on DC winning it out right, but that is just me.

I am no homer except for the Texans. But like I said, he has just been dealt a bad hand here and I think he will be a GREAT QB in a different enviroment now...

clandestin
03-22-2007, 05:35 PM
The only problem with Carr to the Raiders is that I firmly believe he needs to ride the pine for a year before he restarts his career. He needs to let some of the ghosts die, spend a lot of time learning a new offense and how to read defenses, then make his reappearance.

If you throw him in on day one without an outstanding oline he's going to get the jitters that come from being sacked 250 times. In a perfect world (for Carr) he would have sat behind Trent Green last year, and come out this season as the starting QB for the chiefs.